Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 19, 2023
New York Times Acknowledges Ukrainian Origin Of Deadly Strike

The New York Times is finally acknowledging that the September 6 deadly impact of a missile in the center of Kostiantynivka was caused by a Ukrainian missile:

Evidence Suggests Ukrainian Missile Caused Market Tragedy

One wonders what took them so long.

The Sept. 6 missile strike on Kostiantynivka in eastern Ukraine was one of the deadliest in the country in months, killing at least 15 civilians and injuring more than 30 others. The weapon’s payload of metal fragments struck a market, piercing windows and walls and wounding some victims beyond recognition.

Less than two hours later, President Volodymyr Zelensky blamed Russian “terrorists” for the attack, and many media outlets followed suit.

The New York Times was of course one of those media outlets that had spread Zelenski's lies:

The attack clouded Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken’s unannounced visit to Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, the same day, one of the highest-level visits by a U.S. official to there since President Biden visited in February. Mr. Blinken met with President Volodymyr Zelensky, announced more than $1 billion in new U.S. aid for Ukraine and praised its people’s valor and resilience in the face of what he called Russia’s “horrific” aggression.

Just hours after the impact several bloggers has already found that the missile had come from the Ukrainian side. The next day the Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT) published a report about it:

On Sept. 6, a missile strike rocked Kostiantynivka, a town in the Donetsk region under the control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The missile hit a bustling city market at 2:04 p.m. local time, leaving 16 dead and 33 injured. Photos and videos of the aftermath of the strike have been circulated by various media outlets worldwide.

The videos showed evidence that the missile had come from the Ukrainian side. Ironically the main one had been published by Zelenski's office:

CCTV footage published on President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s official Telegram channel captured not only the moment of impact, but also the preceding few seconds when bystanders turn their heads, alerted by the sound of the incoming missile. Additionally, the missile’s reflection can be seen on the roofs of two parked cars in different frames of the video. Based on the geolocation of the video, and these reflections, we can say with a high degree of confidence that the missile flew in from the north-west.

The nearest Russian positions are located approximately 18–19 km east and southeast of Kostiantynivka, as to the northwest, the missile could only have been launched from Russian territory in the vicinity of Grayvoron in the Belgorod region at a distance of about 250 km. Since we consider such a scenario to be unlikely, it is reasonable to assume that it was an accidental Ukrainian missile strike.

This version is also indirectly supported by a report about missile launches from aircraft south of Druzhkivka posted at 2:01 p.m. by a pro-Russian Telegram channel, where locals loyal to Russia report on Ukrainian Air Force activity. Druzhkivka is located just northwest of Kostiantynivka.

The strike was assessed to have been by a U.S. AGM-88 anti radar missile:

Pro-Russian Telegram channels assume that it was an AGM-88 HARM missile. The AFU regularly uses such missiles in the Donetsk region—for example, yesterday we reported a hit by such a missile on a residential building in Donetsk. There were also other incidents near Horlivka; fragments of a HARM missile were found on Sept. 1 near Holmivskyi, 30 kilometers southeast of Kostiantynivka.

Currently, there are no photos of the missile debris, making it impossible to identify it. In the reflections seen in the video, no details of its construction can be discerned. Despite the existence of missiles capable of making turns in the air (e.g., the 9K720 Iskander mobile short-range ballistic missile), in this case, there are far more direct and indirect pieces of evidence in favor of an accidental strike by an AGM-88 HARM missile.

The New York Times report disagrees with this missile assessment:

But evidence collected and analyzed by The New York Times, including missile fragments, satellite imagery, witness accounts and social media posts, strongly suggests the catastrophic strike was the result of an errant Ukrainian air defense missile fired by a Buk launch system.

Further evidence reveals that minutes before the strike, the Ukrainian military launched two surface-to-air missiles toward the Russian front line from the town of Druzhkivka, 10 miles northwest of Kostiantynivka.

Reporters with The Times were in Druzhkivka when they heard an outgoing missile launch at 2 p.m., followed a few minutes later by a second. By chance, one member of the team recorded the first launch in a voice message.

In the aftermath of the attack, Ukrainian authorities said Russian forces used a missile fired by an S-300 air defense system, which Russia has used both to intercept aircraft and strike targets on the ground. But an S-300 missile carries a different warhead from the one that exploded in Kostiantynivka.

The metal facades of buildings closest to the explosion were perforated with hundreds of square or rectangular holes, probably made by cube-like objects blown outward from the missile.

Measurements of the holes — and fragments found at the scene — are consistent in size and shape with one weapon in particular: the 9M38 missile, which is fired by the mobile Buk antiaircraft vehicle. Ukraine is known to use the Buk system, as is Russia.

Some of the holes are less than 10 millimeters in width, while others are slightly larger. The 9M38 contains two different sizes of solid-metal cubic fragments: eight millimeters and 13 millimeters across.

That impact damage evidence is less convincing than the Times makes it sound. It could have equally have come from a AGM-88 HARM missile:

The warhead section is designed to inflict sufficient damage on the target antenna and waveguide system to force an inoperative condition. It also ensures complete destruction of the HARM Missile guidance section. The AGM-88A, and AGM-88B warhead section contains 25,000 pre-formed steel fragments, an explosive charge, a fuze, and a fuze booster. The AGM-88C utilizes an improved warhead section containing 12,845 tungsten fragments and an improved explosive charge which provides greater overall lethality.

The fragmentation damage could have been caused by both types of weapons. The sound of the missile launch heard by the Times reporter could also have come from either type. But whatever type of missile it was we can be sure that it was launched by the Ukrainian side.

One question is not answered by The New York Times report. Why did it take twelve days to publish its report when it took only hours after the impact to find convincing evidence of a Ukrainian missile impact?

And why was this published the very day President Zelenski arrives in New York and shortly before he will meet President Biden in the White House?

Are the knives out to cut the liar to size?

Comments

Freeland cucks
Trudeau sucks
Singh cleans up
Cheers

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 20 2023 13:06 utc | 401

Freeland cucks
Trudeau sucks
Singh cleans up
Cheers

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 20 2023 13:06 utc | 402

#194 “King Charles is on a state visit to France. Reminder, he is the head of the Canadian Armed Forces, so if hypothetically, some part of the Canadian military wanted to get deployed to some operation somewhere, he’d have to sign off on it.”
Pure nonsense.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 20 2023 13:48 utc | 403

#194 “King Charles is on a state visit to France. Reminder, he is the head of the Canadian Armed Forces, so if hypothetically, some part of the Canadian military wanted to get deployed to some operation somewhere, he’d have to sign off on it.”
Pure nonsense.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 20 2023 13:48 utc | 404

If one scans the media, there is a CIA echo – maybe a gravity wave:
Apparently, they are very much intent on making this a “long war”.
…long war, long war, long war…

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 13:48 utc | 405

If one scans the media, there is a CIA echo – maybe a gravity wave:
Apparently, they are very much intent on making this a “long war”.
…long war, long war, long war…

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 13:48 utc | 406

..long war, long war, long war…
Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 13:48 utc | 205
But, as usual, they don’t consider the opponent.
This worked in the asimmetrical situations that US UK NATO had been previously involved.
In this situation it seems that is not working very well.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 20 2023 14:01 utc | 407

..long war, long war, long war…
Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 13:48 utc | 205
But, as usual, they don’t consider the opponent.
This worked in the asimmetrical situations that US UK NATO had been previously involved.
In this situation it seems that is not working very well.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 20 2023 14:01 utc | 408

202 – It reminds me of something Gogol wrote in Russian. From memory it means something like “Did your lyakhs help you?”
Lyakh is an old-fashioned, and by Gogol’s time pejorative Russian word for “Pole”.

Posted by: Waldorf | Sep 20 2023 14:03 utc | 409

The irony.

@ Posted by: canuck | Sep 20 2023 12:59 utc | 201
Goes to the point that: Given time, money and skill the public can be influence to accept any ideology.
Organizations provide the means to accomplish this by providing motivation and steady direction.
Not all organizations have positive agenda (to under-state).
Imagine an AI leader, could direct humanity in a long term steady, evolving direction – sick but interesting.

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 14:03 utc | 410

202 – It reminds me of something Gogol wrote in Russian. From memory it means something like “Did your lyakhs help you?”
Lyakh is an old-fashioned, and by Gogol’s time pejorative Russian word for “Pole”.

Posted by: Waldorf | Sep 20 2023 14:03 utc | 411

The irony.

@ Posted by: canuck | Sep 20 2023 12:59 utc | 201
Goes to the point that: Given time, money and skill the public can be influence to accept any ideology.
Organizations provide the means to accomplish this by providing motivation and steady direction.
Not all organizations have positive agenda (to under-state).
Imagine an AI leader, could direct humanity in a long term steady, evolving direction – sick but interesting.

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 14:03 utc | 412

Partially in reply to “spare_truth | Sep 20 2023 4:51 utc | 143” about the US (and UK) being an active part of the ongoing war.
There are several things to consider together, (grouped)
1) which are the recent attacks on Russian ships in drydock in Sevastopol, and the repeated attempts at sea-drone attacks and Landings of people on a beach in Crimea, near Olenivka and Mayak (Uke spelling)) The landing ships have been moved to the sea of Azov.
+ Extensive use of AGM-88 HARM missiles to nullify the Russin AD.
2) They also seem to be using as advanced control points, or “way-stations” on Snake island (recently reinforced by Ukraine, and also bombed again by Russia) and possibly some of the four or five Oil/gas drilling rigs off Crimea.
3) Next, the recent exercises in the Black sea by NATO on July 12-19, 30 ships which included “the Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group Two (SNMCMG2)”. (Who surely cleared channels through actual minefields, which channels they were remains a secret).
There is an attempt to make the Black sea, outside the chain of oil drilling rigs and islands, into a US controlled space, denying Russia easy access. Threatening Sevastopol and Kersh.
(That is only part of the “military/Naval side of things).
PS. A cargo ship has reportedly hit a mine => Ukraine-Romania. Take with salt.
***
Second group. Oil and corporate gains. (Money honey).
Using the Syrian template as a example, The oil rigs are to provide finance in the case of a deadlock on ground and a halt in major offensives. Smaller ones and guerrila warfare to continue as has been already mentioned by the US military?
The Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict is also on routes for Oil and gas. Three pipelines cross north of Armenia, Ursula Very Fond of Lying has already congratulated herself for gas from Azerbaijan; (July 18. 2022) https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1549008925806268416.
Plus the potential cutting of the North-South Russia-Iran routes. The extent of the US/Israeli shit-stirring will probably become clearer soon, but it already makes the area into a more active objective of both the US and Israel.
Israels’ Ambassador made a visit to Azerbaijan just before the latest outbreak in hostilities, and the US has visibly “bought” Pashinin, who is selling out Armenia. Turkey/Erdogan has eyes on the Zangezur corridor (effectively cutting the N-S road). Iran will not agree at all.
Georgia is slated be “couped” by an ultra-muppet, rather than the softer person in place being allowed to stay.
The overall conclusion is that the US and axis will try for stay of execution and a freezing of the conflict on their terms. Encircling Russia .and Russian assets.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 20 2023 14:44 utc | 413

Partially in reply to “spare_truth | Sep 20 2023 4:51 utc | 143” about the US (and UK) being an active part of the ongoing war.
There are several things to consider together, (grouped)
1) which are the recent attacks on Russian ships in drydock in Sevastopol, and the repeated attempts at sea-drone attacks and Landings of people on a beach in Crimea, near Olenivka and Mayak (Uke spelling)) The landing ships have been moved to the sea of Azov.
+ Extensive use of AGM-88 HARM missiles to nullify the Russin AD.
2) They also seem to be using as advanced control points, or “way-stations” on Snake island (recently reinforced by Ukraine, and also bombed again by Russia) and possibly some of the four or five Oil/gas drilling rigs off Crimea.
3) Next, the recent exercises in the Black sea by NATO on July 12-19, 30 ships which included “the Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group Two (SNMCMG2)”. (Who surely cleared channels through actual minefields, which channels they were remains a secret).
There is an attempt to make the Black sea, outside the chain of oil drilling rigs and islands, into a US controlled space, denying Russia easy access. Threatening Sevastopol and Kersh.
(That is only part of the “military/Naval side of things).
PS. A cargo ship has reportedly hit a mine => Ukraine-Romania. Take with salt.
***
Second group. Oil and corporate gains. (Money honey).
Using the Syrian template as a example, The oil rigs are to provide finance in the case of a deadlock on ground and a halt in major offensives. Smaller ones and guerrila warfare to continue as has been already mentioned by the US military?
The Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict is also on routes for Oil and gas. Three pipelines cross north of Armenia, Ursula Very Fond of Lying has already congratulated herself for gas from Azerbaijan; (July 18. 2022) https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1549008925806268416.
Plus the potential cutting of the North-South Russia-Iran routes. The extent of the US/Israeli shit-stirring will probably become clearer soon, but it already makes the area into a more active objective of both the US and Israel.
Israels’ Ambassador made a visit to Azerbaijan just before the latest outbreak in hostilities, and the US has visibly “bought” Pashinin, who is selling out Armenia. Turkey/Erdogan has eyes on the Zangezur corridor (effectively cutting the N-S road). Iran will not agree at all.
Georgia is slated be “couped” by an ultra-muppet, rather than the softer person in place being allowed to stay.
The overall conclusion is that the US and axis will try for stay of execution and a freezing of the conflict on their terms. Encircling Russia .and Russian assets.

Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 20 2023 14:44 utc | 414

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 14:03 utc | 208
The current AI is the best leader because they lack the ability to do anything too bad.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 20 2023 14:48 utc | 415

Posted by: jared | Sep 20 2023 14:03 utc | 208
The current AI is the best leader because they lack the ability to do anything too bad.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 20 2023 14:48 utc | 416

james@4- always good to read your posts and the link to the Multiplier was very interesting. If you don’t already know of it, Media Lens has been writing about this for nearly 20 years. I have bought all their publications to support them. But their articles are always very well researched, apposite and well presented.
Worthy of one’s time and support.
https://www.medialens.org/

Posted by: Vragtes | Sep 20 2023 14:48 utc | 417

james@4- always good to read your posts and the link to the Multiplier was very interesting. If you don’t already know of it, Media Lens has been writing about this for nearly 20 years. I have bought all their publications to support them. But their articles are always very well researched, apposite and well presented.
Worthy of one’s time and support.
https://www.medialens.org/

Posted by: Vragtes | Sep 20 2023 14:48 utc | 418

Sorry, my error. I was posting in response to james’s post at #15. Not #4. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted by: Vragtes | Sep 20 2023 14:54 utc | 419

Sorry, my error. I was posting in response to james’s post at #15. Not #4. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted by: Vragtes | Sep 20 2023 14:54 utc | 420

@ bevin | Sep 20 2023 0:25 utc |
It’s okay to re-link around here, for goodness’ sake. (Please, no apology necessary.)
Lawrence sees through, like some other observers, to a hidden bond between these globe-striding psychopaths Biden & Zelensky. Could it be that Zelensky has something on “the big fella” from Biden’s days as veep, neck-deep in the big muddy of Ukraine? Seems plausible, now with impeachment rising as a reality for the older crook.
But you’ll need a secret decoder ring to discern the meaning of this NYT release. Factions within opaque factions… folks like Lawrence attempt to read the random patterns at the bottom of the teacup to make some sense of it. With occasional success.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 20 2023 15:24 utc | 421

@ bevin | Sep 20 2023 0:25 utc |
It’s okay to re-link around here, for goodness’ sake. (Please, no apology necessary.)
Lawrence sees through, like some other observers, to a hidden bond between these globe-striding psychopaths Biden & Zelensky. Could it be that Zelensky has something on “the big fella” from Biden’s days as veep, neck-deep in the big muddy of Ukraine? Seems plausible, now with impeachment rising as a reality for the older crook.
But you’ll need a secret decoder ring to discern the meaning of this NYT release. Factions within opaque factions… folks like Lawrence attempt to read the random patterns at the bottom of the teacup to make some sense of it. With occasional success.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 20 2023 15:24 utc | 422

Could Zelensky’s forces have themselves targeted the Kostiantynivka marketplace in order to persuade Biden and his NATO allies to keep up the weapons deliveries?
@ Coldish | Sep 20 2023 9:58 utc | 175
That’s the obvious question. Rather screams at you, doesn’t it? But you’ll never see such questions posed in the pages of the Gray Lady. Questions like that (Who blew up the Nord Stream?) are a threat to national security. With a nation as fragile as USA, you might be surprised as the little bitty things which rise to national security threats.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 20 2023 15:38 utc | 423

Could Zelensky’s forces have themselves targeted the Kostiantynivka marketplace in order to persuade Biden and his NATO allies to keep up the weapons deliveries?
@ Coldish | Sep 20 2023 9:58 utc | 175
That’s the obvious question. Rather screams at you, doesn’t it? But you’ll never see such questions posed in the pages of the Gray Lady. Questions like that (Who blew up the Nord Stream?) are a threat to national security. With a nation as fragile as USA, you might be surprised as the little bitty things which rise to national security threats.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 20 2023 15:38 utc | 424

missile attack on purpose?
this is interesting, German altern. site Telepolis, (which has been justifiably criticised here by “us”) quoting a EU diplomat that the attack was a Russian attack on purpose.
This was what the EU committee right after Sept.7th was saying.
To quote:
“(…)According to minutes of a meeting of the European Council’s IPCR crisis response group (…) in the attack on a marketplace in Kostyantynivka, “far from any potential military target, an accident could be ruled out”.(…)”
Now if the missile did not come from RU but UKR – is the technical analysis – intentionally on civil targets – still being held up?
Of course I doubt it. But perhaps some reporter will look into that.
(EU made the mistake to put out their usual rubbish without any proof. Which has been poven in this case for everyone to see.)
https://www.telepolis.de/features/EU-Diplomaten-zu-Ukraine-Krieg-Raketenangriff-auf-Marktplatz-in-Kostjantyniwka-kein-Versehen-9311951.html

Posted by: AG | Sep 20 2023 15:47 utc | 425

missile attack on purpose?
this is interesting, German altern. site Telepolis, (which has been justifiably criticised here by “us”) quoting a EU diplomat that the attack was a Russian attack on purpose.
This was what the EU committee right after Sept.7th was saying.
To quote:
“(…)According to minutes of a meeting of the European Council’s IPCR crisis response group (…) in the attack on a marketplace in Kostyantynivka, “far from any potential military target, an accident could be ruled out”.(…)”
Now if the missile did not come from RU but UKR – is the technical analysis – intentionally on civil targets – still being held up?
Of course I doubt it. But perhaps some reporter will look into that.
(EU made the mistake to put out their usual rubbish without any proof. Which has been poven in this case for everyone to see.)
https://www.telepolis.de/features/EU-Diplomaten-zu-Ukraine-Krieg-Raketenangriff-auf-Marktplatz-in-Kostjantyniwka-kein-Versehen-9311951.html

Posted by: AG | Sep 20 2023 15:47 utc | 426

Right on cue, Medialens’s latest post. How apposite.
https://www.medialens.org/2023/the-mass-media-memory-hole-blair-ukraine-and-libya/

Posted by: Vragtes | Sep 20 2023 16:39 utc | 427

Right on cue, Medialens’s latest post. How apposite.
https://www.medialens.org/2023/the-mass-media-memory-hole-blair-ukraine-and-libya/

Posted by: Vragtes | Sep 20 2023 16:39 utc | 428

@Vragtes 217
thats a handy summary. thx!

Posted by: AG | Sep 20 2023 16:52 utc | 429

@Vragtes 217
thats a handy summary. thx!

Posted by: AG | Sep 20 2023 16:52 utc | 430

arby@216
And Acco, inadvertently, is doing the same regarding Canada’s Ukrainian community which has always been in two parts. The original immigrants were very much on the left, politically. One of the founders of the Communist Party was among them. They were supporters of the CCF too.
The post 1940 immigrants from Ukraine were, almost entirely, NAZI collaborators, and welcomed as such not only by Mackenzie King’s Liberals but also by the Union Nationale in Quebec and the Social Credit in Alberta, both governing parties with large numbers of fascist sympathisers in their ranks.
I believe that the Waffen SS units that ended up in Trieste surrendered to Alexander who, joined with the Vatican in recommending them as suitable migrants to Canada, where they have thrived mightily.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2023 18:28 utc | 431

arby@216
And Acco, inadvertently, is doing the same regarding Canada’s Ukrainian community which has always been in two parts. The original immigrants were very much on the left, politically. One of the founders of the Communist Party was among them. They were supporters of the CCF too.
The post 1940 immigrants from Ukraine were, almost entirely, NAZI collaborators, and welcomed as such not only by Mackenzie King’s Liberals but also by the Union Nationale in Quebec and the Social Credit in Alberta, both governing parties with large numbers of fascist sympathisers in their ranks.
I believe that the Waffen SS units that ended up in Trieste surrendered to Alexander who, joined with the Vatican in recommending them as suitable migrants to Canada, where they have thrived mightily.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2023 18:28 utc | 432

How many times has this sort of thing happened before? Does anybody remember Kramatorsk? Pro-Ukrainian media haven’t talked about it for a long time, but it was suspected to be a Ukrainian attack because the missile was clearly one no longer in active use by the Russian military at that point.

Posted by: fnord | Sep 20 2023 18:54 utc | 433

How many times has this sort of thing happened before? Does anybody remember Kramatorsk? Pro-Ukrainian media haven’t talked about it for a long time, but it was suspected to be a Ukrainian attack because the missile was clearly one no longer in active use by the Russian military at that point.

Posted by: fnord | Sep 20 2023 18:54 utc | 434

Skiffer | Sep 20 2023 8:01 utc | 158
***Pashinyan also made it clear that Armenia has no intention of defending Karabakh, well in advance. That, together with his stated desire to leave the CSTO and his restated non-recognition of Karabahk, as you’ve mentioned, is every signal that Azerbaijan would ever need to move in. Pashinyan doesn’t want Karabakh, won’t act to defend it and is distancing himself from the only defense organization that could conceivably uphold some sort of status quo — his intention to abandon the Armenians living in the region couldn’t be clearer.***
Pashinyan and his gang have always been traitors working for the US-empire. They lost the previous local conflict becaue of a mix of corruption and lack of will to win. They want to be in NATO and the EU — to trough with scum like themselves.
Plus no doubt nice back-handers for near-future hosting of a US military base.
If the Putin government weren’t at heart such liberals/neoliberals themselves, the Armenia situation — and others — would have been thoroughly sorted years ago.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 19:46 utc | 435

Skiffer | Sep 20 2023 8:01 utc | 158
***Pashinyan also made it clear that Armenia has no intention of defending Karabakh, well in advance. That, together with his stated desire to leave the CSTO and his restated non-recognition of Karabahk, as you’ve mentioned, is every signal that Azerbaijan would ever need to move in. Pashinyan doesn’t want Karabakh, won’t act to defend it and is distancing himself from the only defense organization that could conceivably uphold some sort of status quo — his intention to abandon the Armenians living in the region couldn’t be clearer.***
Pashinyan and his gang have always been traitors working for the US-empire. They lost the previous local conflict becaue of a mix of corruption and lack of will to win. They want to be in NATO and the EU — to trough with scum like themselves.
Plus no doubt nice back-handers for near-future hosting of a US military base.
If the Putin government weren’t at heart such liberals/neoliberals themselves, the Armenia situation — and others — would have been thoroughly sorted years ago.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 19:46 utc | 436

Skiffer | Sep 20 2023 9:37 utc | 172
*** That said, Pashinyan is presumably just working off a script and whoever wrote that script isn’t thinking beyond the pilot episode and doesn’t care about writing themselves into a corner. He probably got suckered in by Washington’s lucrative retirement plan of becoming the future mayor of Odessa. ***
A faction in Israel wants Ukraine for themselves. Why would they care how polluted, since they’d be teamed up with Blackrock and aren’t exactly ‘countryside’ types anyway. Depopulation of Ukraine to a level required as servants suits them fine.
Meanwhile, the Azeris are allied with Israel and Turkey. The betrayed chunk of Armenia fits well into a Turkey/US-empire severance of links between Russia and Iran.
But don’t expect the Putin regime to take decisive action to stop that process, since he would be reluctant to disrupt Israeli plans.
So in the end, despite its long history, Armenia (complete with a new still to be built US military base — remember how the US got one in Papua New Guinea?) will effectively cease to exist.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 20:07 utc | 437

Skiffer | Sep 20 2023 9:37 utc | 172
*** That said, Pashinyan is presumably just working off a script and whoever wrote that script isn’t thinking beyond the pilot episode and doesn’t care about writing themselves into a corner. He probably got suckered in by Washington’s lucrative retirement plan of becoming the future mayor of Odessa. ***
A faction in Israel wants Ukraine for themselves. Why would they care how polluted, since they’d be teamed up with Blackrock and aren’t exactly ‘countryside’ types anyway. Depopulation of Ukraine to a level required as servants suits them fine.
Meanwhile, the Azeris are allied with Israel and Turkey. The betrayed chunk of Armenia fits well into a Turkey/US-empire severance of links between Russia and Iran.
But don’t expect the Putin regime to take decisive action to stop that process, since he would be reluctant to disrupt Israeli plans.
So in the end, despite its long history, Armenia (complete with a new still to be built US military base — remember how the US got one in Papua New Guinea?) will effectively cease to exist.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 20:07 utc | 438

For me now it’s the Kyiv Murder Regime.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Sep 20 2023 20:07 utc | 439

For me now it’s the Kyiv Murder Regime.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Sep 20 2023 20:07 utc | 440

YetAnotherAnon | Sep 20 2023 12:09 utc | 193
*** [quotes Duda] “It is too often that Europe tends to forget that it owes its security and prosperity to the US commitment and presence. In Poland we recall this very well, that is why Poland‘s top priority for the time of our presidency of the European Union in the first half of 2025, will be enhancing transatlantic relations, and cooperation between the EU and the United States!”***
Yankee Duda Pandry really is a prime lump of shit, with brains to match. Does he really imagine that Poland will be allowed to block imposition of the trans/wokist agenda of NATO and Brussels?
the US regime will have soldiers and missiles there to ensure it can’t
After which, “Poland” will be nothing more than an empty label.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 20:33 utc | 441

YetAnotherAnon | Sep 20 2023 12:09 utc | 193
*** [quotes Duda] “It is too often that Europe tends to forget that it owes its security and prosperity to the US commitment and presence. In Poland we recall this very well, that is why Poland‘s top priority for the time of our presidency of the European Union in the first half of 2025, will be enhancing transatlantic relations, and cooperation between the EU and the United States!”***
Yankee Duda Pandry really is a prime lump of shit, with brains to match. Does he really imagine that Poland will be allowed to block imposition of the trans/wokist agenda of NATO and Brussels?
the US regime will have soldiers and missiles there to ensure it can’t
After which, “Poland” will be nothing more than an empty label.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 20:33 utc | 442

canuck | Sep 20 2023 12:59 utc | 201
*** These emigrants were Doukhobors who were pacifists.***
Is it a faction of that lot who were into indiscriminately violent anarchist terrorism?

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 20:41 utc | 443

canuck | Sep 20 2023 12:59 utc | 201
*** These emigrants were Doukhobors who were pacifists.***
Is it a faction of that lot who were into indiscriminately violent anarchist terrorism?

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 20 2023 20:41 utc | 444

So it seems, the Poles, little offered at Rammstein, disaster at the UN, a poor week for the Z man. And come on, the last thing anyone sitting on the security council wants is to see the UN reformed, way to lose influence and alienate yourself.

Posted by: Gerard | Sep 20 2023 21:57 utc | 445

So it seems, the Poles, little offered at Rammstein, disaster at the UN, a poor week for the Z man. And come on, the last thing anyone sitting on the security council wants is to see the UN reformed, way to lose influence and alienate yourself.

Posted by: Gerard | Sep 20 2023 21:57 utc | 446

Salaam.Just the facts please-ooh Canada@99,calm down youth,truth offends.Afghans/Taliban had no part in 9/11 events-none.Yet they were murdered by the thousands- innocents.So who done it? No evidence- none. You claim Russia started this( Ukraine) war? Really son!You acting a truant child.Evidence please,big call,calls for big evidence.We do know that USA habitually lies-Tonken,Grenada,Yougoslavia/genocide,Libya/genocide, Saddam’s WMD,Assad’s Syrian poison gas/ genocide-all big fat lies.Now state facts / evidence on Russia being the aggressor here!

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 20 2023 22:02 utc | 447

Salaam.Just the facts please-ooh Canada@99,calm down youth,truth offends.Afghans/Taliban had no part in 9/11 events-none.Yet they were murdered by the thousands- innocents.So who done it? No evidence- none. You claim Russia started this( Ukraine) war? Really son!You acting a truant child.Evidence please,big call,calls for big evidence.We do know that USA habitually lies-Tonken,Grenada,Yougoslavia/genocide,Libya/genocide, Saddam’s WMD,Assad’s Syrian poison gas/ genocide-all big fat lies.Now state facts / evidence on Russia being the aggressor here!

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 20 2023 22:02 utc | 448

Salaam, oracle@119,not accepting the piece about an “error/accident!Nah,once is an incidence,twice-coincedence,three time it’s a damn habit.Asylum in Grenada bombed “accidently”.Chinese embassy Yougoslavia bombed “accidently”.Kunduz hospital bombed “accidently”- twice,despite medicenes sans frontieres giving the hospital location to the Americans twice weekly.Commercial Indonesian “disappeared” over the Pacific.So smart bombs ain’t so smart!You got all these three letter agencies,who can let on Merkels’ bra size,Hollandes’ brain size,Trumps’ palm size, satellites,AWACS,and you have “accidents” this size,nah,naw- no senior/senorita.Nyet.

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 20 2023 22:30 utc | 449

Salaam, oracle@119,not accepting the piece about an “error/accident!Nah,once is an incidence,twice-coincedence,three time it’s a damn habit.Asylum in Grenada bombed “accidently”.Chinese embassy Yougoslavia bombed “accidently”.Kunduz hospital bombed “accidently”- twice,despite medicenes sans frontieres giving the hospital location to the Americans twice weekly.Commercial Indonesian “disappeared” over the Pacific.So smart bombs ain’t so smart!You got all these three letter agencies,who can let on Merkels’ bra size,Hollandes’ brain size,Trumps’ palm size, satellites,AWACS,and you have “accidents” this size,nah,naw- no senior/senorita.Nyet.

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 20 2023 22:30 utc | 450

“There seems to be no contradiction in exporting poverty to produce poor workers and then importing cheap goods to produce more poor workers.”
Posted by: Colin | Sep 20 2023 12:40 utc | 196
Very good point, Colin.
But I am still not solidly convinced that the US, prior to the destruction of Nordstream pipelines and the nominally “anti-Russia” sanctions that are now actually mostly hurting western Europe economically, has deliberately impoverished countries that were not already “poor” (using a GDP-based analysis). I would like to know more about this.
One thing I did hear was that the US flooded Mexico with our subsidized mass-produced corn and that has hurt local Mexican corn (maize) producers in a big way. But that’s the only example I can think of now. More info appreciated….

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:14 utc | 451

“There seems to be no contradiction in exporting poverty to produce poor workers and then importing cheap goods to produce more poor workers.”
Posted by: Colin | Sep 20 2023 12:40 utc | 196
Very good point, Colin.
But I am still not solidly convinced that the US, prior to the destruction of Nordstream pipelines and the nominally “anti-Russia” sanctions that are now actually mostly hurting western Europe economically, has deliberately impoverished countries that were not already “poor” (using a GDP-based analysis). I would like to know more about this.
One thing I did hear was that the US flooded Mexico with our subsidized mass-produced corn and that has hurt local Mexican corn (maize) producers in a big way. But that’s the only example I can think of now. More info appreciated….

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:14 utc | 452

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:14 utc | 231
I would have to add, though, that in order to flood the Mexico market with US subsidized cheap corn (and probably other agri products), Mexican authorities would have had to agree to it also.

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:33 utc | 453

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:14 utc | 231
I would have to add, though, that in order to flood the Mexico market with US subsidized cheap corn (and probably other agri products), Mexican authorities would have had to agree to it also.

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:33 utc | 454

RE: the marketplace attack in Kostyantynivka
Here’s a suggestion which I haven’t yet seen before. The missile, in the unedited videos, appears to head directly to its target, no wandering is observed in its track. It’s been suggested that this was a Buk missile, currently believed fired from Ukraine, that landed in its own civilian territory.
This suggests that the missile headed directly to a radar source.
And if this is the case, the question then becomes, how does a radar source wind up in a civilian area? There are a few possibilities.
Perhaps it was a civilian radar used for weather reporting or some such. Or it might have been an accidental strong radar reflection off of a civilian reflective surface that the Buk missile homed in on. The last possibility is that Ukraine may have deliberately concealed military radar in the marketplace area, counting on Russia to avoid residential zones, while their own missile did not.

Posted by: spindz | Sep 21 2023 5:34 utc | 455

RE: the marketplace attack in Kostyantynivka
Here’s a suggestion which I haven’t yet seen before. The missile, in the unedited videos, appears to head directly to its target, no wandering is observed in its track. It’s been suggested that this was a Buk missile, currently believed fired from Ukraine, that landed in its own civilian territory.
This suggests that the missile headed directly to a radar source.
And if this is the case, the question then becomes, how does a radar source wind up in a civilian area? There are a few possibilities.
Perhaps it was a civilian radar used for weather reporting or some such. Or it might have been an accidental strong radar reflection off of a civilian reflective surface that the Buk missile homed in on. The last possibility is that Ukraine may have deliberately concealed military radar in the marketplace area, counting on Russia to avoid residential zones, while their own missile did not.

Posted by: spindz | Sep 21 2023 5:34 utc | 456

We wonder and tear up our brains trying to guess how and which means will Russia use to wipe out any Ukrie dream of keeping itself a cradle for aggression on the Empire s behalf.
Perhaps a heavy plough on the land? an all out scorched place? No, it s eventually counterproductive for RF.
Make the US quit their useless war efforts and then convince the still alive ukie soldiers to surrender.

Posted by: augusto | Sep 21 2023 13:03 utc | 457

We wonder and tear up our brains trying to guess how and which means will Russia use to wipe out any Ukrie dream of keeping itself a cradle for aggression on the Empire s behalf.
Perhaps a heavy plough on the land? an all out scorched place? No, it s eventually counterproductive for RF.
Make the US quit their useless war efforts and then convince the still alive ukie soldiers to surrender.

Posted by: augusto | Sep 21 2023 13:03 utc | 458

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:14 utc | 228
I was talking about the export of capital, financial sabotage, big tech and dollar.
Of course, they are also burdens on the American proletariat.
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:33 utc | 229
Cheap subsidized refined carbohydrates are also a burden on America, fueling the obesity pandemic.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 22 2023 2:52 utc | 459

Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:14 utc | 228
I was talking about the export of capital, financial sabotage, big tech and dollar.
Of course, they are also burdens on the American proletariat.
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 21 2023 3:33 utc | 229
Cheap subsidized refined carbohydrates are also a burden on America, fueling the obesity pandemic.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 22 2023 2:52 utc | 460

<>
What you call the United States is a territory that was invaded by Europeans beginning in the late sixteenth century.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Sep 22 2023 5:46 utc | 461

<>
What you call the United States is a territory that was invaded by Europeans beginning in the late sixteenth century.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Sep 22 2023 5:46 utc | 462