Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 21, 2023
How Will The Biden Administration Cope With Its Loss In Ukraine?

While this piece will touch on the war in Ukraine it is more about the U.S., and the Biden administration, and how they will cope with their  defeat in their war on Russia. Please keep that in mind when commentating.

Washington's moment of recognizing the defeat in Ukraine, and its consequences, has yet to arrive.

In his latest piece (archived) Seymour Hersh reports on the state of the war and of significant differences of opinion between the U.S. intelligence services:

There are significant elements in the American intelligence community, relying on field reports and technical intelligence, who believe that the demoralized Ukraine army has given up on the possibility of overcoming the heavily mined three-tier Russian defense lines and taking the war to Crimea and the four oblasts seized and annexed by Russia. The reality is that Volodymyr Zelensky’s battered army no longer has any chance of a victory.

The war continues, I have been told by an official with access to current intelligence, because Zelensky insists that it must. There is no discussion in his headquarters or in the Biden White House of a ceasefire and no interest in talks that could lead to an end to the slaughter. “It’s all lies,” the official said, speaking of the Ukrainian claims of incremental progress in the offensive that has suffered staggering losses, while gaining ground in a few scattered areas that the Ukrainian military measures in meters per week.

The American intelligence official I spoke with spent the early years of his career working against Soviet aggression and spying has respect for Putin’s intellect but contempt for his decision to go to war with Ukraine and to initiate the death and destruction that war brings. But, as he told me, “The war is over. Russia has won. There is no Ukrainian offensive anymore, but the White House and the American media have to keep the lie going.

“The truth is if the Ukrainian army is ordered to continue the offensive, the army would mutiny. The soldiers aren’t willing to die any more, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”

The differences between the current CIA and the more neoconned Defense Intelligence Agency extend to their view on China:

A byproduct of the Biden administration’s neocon hostility to Russia and China—exemplified by the remarks of Secretary of State Tony Blinken, who has repeatedly stated that he will not currently countenance a ceasefire in Ukraine—has been a significant split in the intelligence community. One casualty are the secret National Intelligence Estimates that have delineated the parameters of American foreign policy for decades. Some key offices in the CIA have refused, in many cases, to participate in the NIE process because of profound political disagreement with the administration’s aggressive foreign policy. One recent failure involved a planned NIE that dealt with the outcome of a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

I have reported for many weeks on the longstanding disagreement between the CIA and other elements of the intelligence community on the prognosis of the current war in the Ukraine. CIA analysts have consistently been far more skeptical than their counterparts at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) on the prospect for a Ukraine success. The American media has ignored the dispute, but the London-headquartered Economist, whose well-informed reporters do not get bylines, has not.

The DIA is still saying that the Ukrainian army has a chance, a small one though, to break through the Russian lines. The White House still seems to believe in that. The CIA knows that the Ukraine is done.

Alastair Crooke, in a talk (vid) with Judge Napolitano, says that the moment of truth will only arrive in November.

But what will happen when everyone recognizes and acknowledges, if silently, that the war on Russia has failed?

Michael Brenner argues that the US Can’t Deal With Defeat:

Ukraine, today, has suffered huge losses of even greater (proportional) magnitude [than the German Wehrmacht in the Battle of Kursk], without achieving any significant territorial gains, unable even to reach the first layer of the Surovikin Line. That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine. Hence, Moscow is poised to exploit its decisive advantage to the point where it can dictate terms to Kiev, Washington, Brussels et al.

The Biden administration has made no plans for such an eventuality, nor have its obedient European governments. Their divorce from reality will make this state of affairs all the more stunning — and galling. Bereft of ideas, they will flounder. How they will react is unknowable. We can say with certainty one thing: the collective West, and especially the U.S., will have suffered a grave defeat. Coping with that truth will become the main order of business.

Here is a menu of options for handling it:

Redefine what is meant by defeat, victory, failure, success, loss, gain. There is a new narrative that is scripted to stress these talking points: …

This narrative already has been given an airing in speeches by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Acting Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Its target audience is the American public; nobody outside the Collective West buys it, though — whether Washington has registered that fact of diplomatic life or not.

Retroactively Scale Back the Goals & Stakes

Cultivate Amnesia

Next: China

It is likely that the administration will use all four options to make the pain and memory of defeat go away. Declare victory over Russia  because Russia was stopped at the border with Poland. Then forget about all the details and consequences and move towards war on China.

That could end catastrophically.

The focal shift from Russia in Europe to China in Asia is less a mechanism for coping with defeat than the pathological reaction of a country that, feeling a gnawing sense of diminishing prowess, can manage to do nothing more than try one final fling at proving to itself that it still has the right stuff — since living without that exalted sense of self is intolerable.

The U.S. was fortunate, in the case of Vietnam, that the United States’ dominant position in the world outside of the Soviet Bloc and the PRC allowed it to maintain respect, status and influence.

Things have now changed, though. The U.S. relative strength in all domains is weaker, strong centrifugal forces around the globe are producing a dispersion of power, will and outlook among other states. The BRICs phenomenon is the concrete embodiment of that reality.

Hence, the prerogatives of the United States are narrowing, its ability to shape the global system in conformity with its ideas and interests are under mounting challenge, and premiums are being placed on diplomacy of an order that seems beyond its present aptitudes.

The U.S. is confounded.

Major offices in the CIA, according to Hersh, have recognized the danger of such plans. It may well be the reason why the CIA's informal spokesmen, David Ignatius, and others wrote that Biden should step down.

If he doesn't the neoconservatives around him will have a great incentive to move on China as fast as possible. As Biden will have difficulties in winning next year's election he needs some objective that can unify the country. A war that he can claim the U.S. will win is one. Some hostile naval exchanges with China will follow.

(Please don't use the comments of this thread for details from the war in Ukraine. The current thread for such is here.)

Comments

@243,
Losing the entire Black Fleet is not a small loss. It’s actually quite big. Those ships are expensive and hard to replace. The whole point of NATO attacks is Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet stationed there.
While of course, Donbas is also relevant, they see more value in Crimea and what it offers (they don’t give a shit of what Ukraine wants anyway).
I do agree that Zaporozhe is more important now but it’s important because of Crimea not the other way around.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:15 utc | 501

@243,
Losing the entire Black Fleet is not a small loss. It’s actually quite big. Those ships are expensive and hard to replace. The whole point of NATO attacks is Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet stationed there.
While of course, Donbas is also relevant, they see more value in Crimea and what it offers (they don’t give a shit of what Ukraine wants anyway).
I do agree that Zaporozhe is more important now but it’s important because of Crimea not the other way around.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:15 utc | 502

@242
I respect other opinions even they call me a troll. …
„…Ukr gets flatten daily…“
News on The russian TG channels i am consuming reporting 80% about flattening Ukros
But my point is
How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks like in Sevastopol, attacks on every front line with higher intensity than day before doesnt suffer any lack of ammunition or equipment and still uses an intact infrastructure to supply the front?
Lets take a boxing fight with Klitschko
U punch him he goes down stands up attacks u punches u and u again & again & again punch him (flatten) but again & again & again he stands up & attacks u & punch u as well
Why u can punch him forever to Nirvana?
Either u ve a weak punch line a girl or Klitschkl is a hybrid terminator from boston dynamics Labs or u ve a deal with Klitschko & management to deliver a good show for stupid audiences

Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 22 2023 12:21 utc | 503

@242
I respect other opinions even they call me a troll. …
„…Ukr gets flatten daily…“
News on The russian TG channels i am consuming reporting 80% about flattening Ukros
But my point is
How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks like in Sevastopol, attacks on every front line with higher intensity than day before doesnt suffer any lack of ammunition or equipment and still uses an intact infrastructure to supply the front?
Lets take a boxing fight with Klitschko
U punch him he goes down stands up attacks u punches u and u again & again & again punch him (flatten) but again & again & again he stands up & attacks u & punch u as well
Why u can punch him forever to Nirvana?
Either u ve a weak punch line a girl or Klitschkl is a hybrid terminator from boston dynamics Labs or u ve a deal with Klitschko & management to deliver a good show for stupid audiences

Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 22 2023 12:21 utc | 504

Arch Bungle | Sep 22 2023 11:38 utc | 243
Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:15 utc | 253
Looks like they just hit the Russian Black Sea Fleet Headquarters building again, as in the last hour. In daylight.
Pictures look like the same building a drone hit a year or so ago?
Starting with this guy: https://twitter.com/i/status/1705191779975245875 What is he doing there?

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 12:28 utc | 505

Arch Bungle | Sep 22 2023 11:38 utc | 243
Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:15 utc | 253
Looks like they just hit the Russian Black Sea Fleet Headquarters building again, as in the last hour. In daylight.
Pictures look like the same building a drone hit a year or so ago?
Starting with this guy: https://twitter.com/i/status/1705191779975245875 What is he doing there?

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 12:28 utc | 506

“But my point is
How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks”
“The enemy”, dear SlowSoft, isn’t just the Ukraine. Certainly you must have noticed that by now.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:30 utc | 507

“But my point is
How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks”
“The enemy”, dear SlowSoft, isn’t just the Ukraine. Certainly you must have noticed that by now.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:30 utc | 508

So, it’s been confirmed a US P-8A Poseidon aircraft was the targeting relay in this Crimea strike.

⚡️ ⚡️ ‼️🇺🇸 The US Navy P-8A Poseidon began moving to the Black Sea almost simultaneously with the start of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ attack on Sevastopol.
Most likely, it adjusted the attacks on Crimea .
#source (https://t.me/svorezevv/12492?single)
@Slavyangrad

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 12:31 utc | 509

So, it’s been confirmed a US P-8A Poseidon aircraft was the targeting relay in this Crimea strike.

⚡️ ⚡️ ‼️🇺🇸 The US Navy P-8A Poseidon began moving to the Black Sea almost simultaneously with the start of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ attack on Sevastopol.
Most likely, it adjusted the attacks on Crimea .
#source (https://t.me/svorezevv/12492?single)
@Slavyangrad

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 12:31 utc | 510

@254,
It’s possible because 100+ billion $ and unlimited ammunition supplied by NATO and other Non-NATO allies like Pakistan or others. Also basically every intelligence satellite that NATO uses is used for the Ukrainian Army. Basically their only role is to be cannon fodder for NATO. The rest is done by NATO.
So, yeah .. it’s not only “possible” but mandatory but Ukr meat shields. Do you think they have any “democratic” voices now inside Ukraine?
Regarding the infrastructure, Ukraine is a big country .. there is no possible way in attacking every piece of infrastructure or equipment there is there. Also, what would be the point in destroying administrative buildings?
We can argue that maybe this should have been prepared better in the initial phases (first 6 months) but right now, there is no easy win no matter how many infrastructure buildings would go down. They will get repaired.
While slow grind is pretty and it’s not perfect, considering the amount of money and equipment that NATO is pumping there, for Russia it is crucial to limit the number of casualties on their end and keep the economy flowing even for a few more years if necessary.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:32 utc | 511

@254,
It’s possible because 100+ billion $ and unlimited ammunition supplied by NATO and other Non-NATO allies like Pakistan or others. Also basically every intelligence satellite that NATO uses is used for the Ukrainian Army. Basically their only role is to be cannon fodder for NATO. The rest is done by NATO.
So, yeah .. it’s not only “possible” but mandatory but Ukr meat shields. Do you think they have any “democratic” voices now inside Ukraine?
Regarding the infrastructure, Ukraine is a big country .. there is no possible way in attacking every piece of infrastructure or equipment there is there. Also, what would be the point in destroying administrative buildings?
We can argue that maybe this should have been prepared better in the initial phases (first 6 months) but right now, there is no easy win no matter how many infrastructure buildings would go down. They will get repaired.
While slow grind is pretty and it’s not perfect, considering the amount of money and equipment that NATO is pumping there, for Russia it is crucial to limit the number of casualties on their end and keep the economy flowing even for a few more years if necessary.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:32 utc | 512

The Russian Black Sea fleet has launched a lot of missiles into Ukraine. The Russian Black Sea fleet has also carried supplies to Crimea.
Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 12:00 utc | 251
They have launched some missiles, and KEEP launching.
Provided that the black sea is closed your assertion that the black see fleet carries supplies to Crimea is questionable, at a bare minimum.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 22 2023 12:34 utc | 513

The Russian Black Sea fleet has launched a lot of missiles into Ukraine. The Russian Black Sea fleet has also carried supplies to Crimea.
Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 12:00 utc | 251
They have launched some missiles, and KEEP launching.
Provided that the black sea is closed your assertion that the black see fleet carries supplies to Crimea is questionable, at a bare minimum.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 22 2023 12:34 utc | 514

If we go with official channels, Ukraine or Ukr handlers have spent a lot of Storm Shadow missiles in the last few days.
While I am no expert in military, I am not sure if they really got the value of these attacks so far.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:36 utc | 515

If we go with official channels, Ukraine or Ukr handlers have spent a lot of Storm Shadow missiles in the last few days.
While I am no expert in military, I am not sure if they really got the value of these attacks so far.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:36 utc | 516

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:15 utc | 253
The one who holds Zaporozhye and a solid line to it also has the ability to control Donbass. It currently would have huge value for Russia to hold it.
Because when you look at the map, AFU only has one more LOC to support their troops around Donetsk and Artemovsk, namely Dnepropetrovsk and Pavlograd junction. They might have Kharkov, but it will probably be rendered inoperable for train traffic in case of a new offensive.
Zaporozhye also immediately compromises all AFU forces in the entire Donetsk and Zaporozhye region, and it seals the deal for securing Crimea once and for all.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 12:37 utc | 517

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:15 utc | 253
The one who holds Zaporozhye and a solid line to it also has the ability to control Donbass. It currently would have huge value for Russia to hold it.
Because when you look at the map, AFU only has one more LOC to support their troops around Donetsk and Artemovsk, namely Dnepropetrovsk and Pavlograd junction. They might have Kharkov, but it will probably be rendered inoperable for train traffic in case of a new offensive.
Zaporozhye also immediately compromises all AFU forces in the entire Donetsk and Zaporozhye region, and it seals the deal for securing Crimea once and for all.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 12:37 utc | 518

If “ukraine“ keeps attacking and hitting crimea and the fleet, it can lead to some bigger issues, some already mebtioned by others.
– power projection in the black sea can be hijacked by some nato “drills“ once they see no threat from russian navy there.
– blocking remaining naval traffic into the med, thus bringing problems for syria
– if, hypothetically, crimea falls, then nato has a backdoor from where to start attacks on all the liberated areas, thus negating any gains the allies got on all the more important places during the hostilities.
– without the fleet, supply can be an issue
– this one is more outlandish, but what if they manage to destroy the black sea fleet, and then nato “blocks“ russias access to it in some fashion by blowing something up in the canals leading into the black sea? Resupply would get tricky or timeconsuming, forcing russias hand to escalate, and nato woul spin the pr to win again
They will never stop…

Posted by: Justpassinby | Sep 22 2023 12:37 utc | 519

If “ukraine“ keeps attacking and hitting crimea and the fleet, it can lead to some bigger issues, some already mebtioned by others.
– power projection in the black sea can be hijacked by some nato “drills“ once they see no threat from russian navy there.
– blocking remaining naval traffic into the med, thus bringing problems for syria
– if, hypothetically, crimea falls, then nato has a backdoor from where to start attacks on all the liberated areas, thus negating any gains the allies got on all the more important places during the hostilities.
– without the fleet, supply can be an issue
– this one is more outlandish, but what if they manage to destroy the black sea fleet, and then nato “blocks“ russias access to it in some fashion by blowing something up in the canals leading into the black sea? Resupply would get tricky or timeconsuming, forcing russias hand to escalate, and nato woul spin the pr to win again
They will never stop…

Posted by: Justpassinby | Sep 22 2023 12:37 utc | 520

@ CitizenSmith re “crappy little countries”: This is why said country would preferentially be in Latin America. The USA could establish a large ground presence in a place like Mexico (an invasion of which is already being openly discussed, mind you) long before Russia or China could intervene.
@ canuck re Nerva-Trajan dynasty: You just identified the only way to run a monarchy successfully: Luck into a good leader who chooses rather than spawns a successor. None of this Semen Blessed by God business. You’ll note that that line of responsible leadership ended when Septimius Severus spawned his heir. How much better if Daddy Severus had been castrated in his youth, or, like Antoninus Pius, into guys.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:39 utc | 521

@ CitizenSmith re “crappy little countries”: This is why said country would preferentially be in Latin America. The USA could establish a large ground presence in a place like Mexico (an invasion of which is already being openly discussed, mind you) long before Russia or China could intervene.
@ canuck re Nerva-Trajan dynasty: You just identified the only way to run a monarchy successfully: Luck into a good leader who chooses rather than spawns a successor. None of this Semen Blessed by God business. You’ll note that that line of responsible leadership ended when Septimius Severus spawned his heir. How much better if Daddy Severus had been castrated in his youth, or, like Antoninus Pius, into guys.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:39 utc | 522

The answer to b’s headline is simply “in the worst possible way”. The only question remaining after that is whether the Biden admin will go nuclear.
Every administration in the US that has put women into positions of power has been typified by hyper-aggressive use of the military.
Clinton’s reign made Reagan—a true butcher in his own right—look tame. Carter’s worst mistake was sending weapons to Afghanistan, and he was clearly ousted for sincerely trying to make peace everywhere else.
Nixon was toppled by a CIA operation because he opened up China, and ended the Vietnam war.
US anti-communist propaganda has created a frothingly mad class of so-called “Christian” autobots who are willing to join into any secret conspiracy against the government, so long as it is backed by an oligarch who espouses the same ignorant, uninformed, and inhumane narcissism as they have been raised on.
These autobots call themselves not only “Christian,” but also “patriots,” even though all of them write off most of their fellow citizens as subversives (looking squarely at you, Doug McGregor, and Larry Johnson).
This war will be made—purposefully, with full malicious intent—worse for the maximum number of all, by the Biden administration.
But who are we to say they’re not making hard decisions?
Big Ag has created an insect apocalypse. Insects are THE keystone to environmental balance. Big Ag has skewed the the entire planet’s ecosystem toward genocidal-levels of destruction.
Where are the places that might possibly resist Big Ag’s tentacles?
Russia, Africa, China, and the “global south”—excluding Australia.
IMHO, very soon the countries who have acceded to Big Ag’s influence will start to decline in their production capacity, and that will create a critical political moment the US will not survive.
But all of that is in the mid-term.
Immediately: the Biden administration won’t likely survive the election, but if it does, god help us all.
If it doesn’t then it’s most likely Trump, and that will be a comeback that will be historical I won’t be surprised if the psycho narcissist goes down in history as “the greatest Preznit Evah”.
Trump will negotiate Evangelicals and the rest of the US, and he’ll negotiate with China and Russia.
Negotiation is something I appreciate.
Patriotism that pushes war and destruction is a thing I abhor, which is why I have chosen to live all of my adult life outside the USA.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 12:45 utc | 523

The answer to b’s headline is simply “in the worst possible way”. The only question remaining after that is whether the Biden admin will go nuclear.
Every administration in the US that has put women into positions of power has been typified by hyper-aggressive use of the military.
Clinton’s reign made Reagan—a true butcher in his own right—look tame. Carter’s worst mistake was sending weapons to Afghanistan, and he was clearly ousted for sincerely trying to make peace everywhere else.
Nixon was toppled by a CIA operation because he opened up China, and ended the Vietnam war.
US anti-communist propaganda has created a frothingly mad class of so-called “Christian” autobots who are willing to join into any secret conspiracy against the government, so long as it is backed by an oligarch who espouses the same ignorant, uninformed, and inhumane narcissism as they have been raised on.
These autobots call themselves not only “Christian,” but also “patriots,” even though all of them write off most of their fellow citizens as subversives (looking squarely at you, Doug McGregor, and Larry Johnson).
This war will be made—purposefully, with full malicious intent—worse for the maximum number of all, by the Biden administration.
But who are we to say they’re not making hard decisions?
Big Ag has created an insect apocalypse. Insects are THE keystone to environmental balance. Big Ag has skewed the the entire planet’s ecosystem toward genocidal-levels of destruction.
Where are the places that might possibly resist Big Ag’s tentacles?
Russia, Africa, China, and the “global south”—excluding Australia.
IMHO, very soon the countries who have acceded to Big Ag’s influence will start to decline in their production capacity, and that will create a critical political moment the US will not survive.
But all of that is in the mid-term.
Immediately: the Biden administration won’t likely survive the election, but if it does, god help us all.
If it doesn’t then it’s most likely Trump, and that will be a comeback that will be historical I won’t be surprised if the psycho narcissist goes down in history as “the greatest Preznit Evah”.
Trump will negotiate Evangelicals and the rest of the US, and he’ll negotiate with China and Russia.
Negotiation is something I appreciate.
Patriotism that pushes war and destruction is a thing I abhor, which is why I have chosen to live all of my adult life outside the USA.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 12:45 utc | 524

How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks like in Sevastopol, attacks on every front line with higher intensity than day before doesnt suffer any lack of ammunition or equipment and still uses an intact infrastructure to supply the front?
Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 22 2023 12:21 utc | 254
If they didn’t suffer any shortage probably they would not be bombing Sevastapol right now, they would be sitting in it. In your metaphor NATO assistance means Ukraine can punchvfar above its weight.

Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 12:46 utc | 525

How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks like in Sevastopol, attacks on every front line with higher intensity than day before doesnt suffer any lack of ammunition or equipment and still uses an intact infrastructure to supply the front?
Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 22 2023 12:21 utc | 254
If they didn’t suffer any shortage probably they would not be bombing Sevastapol right now, they would be sitting in it. In your metaphor NATO assistance means Ukraine can punchvfar above its weight.

Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 12:46 utc | 526

Oops, not Antoninus Pius but Hadrian of course, whose main squeeze was a guy named Antinous. Antoninus, Antinous, let’s call the whole thing off. . .

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:48 utc | 527

Oops, not Antoninus Pius but Hadrian of course, whose main squeeze was a guy named Antinous. Antoninus, Antinous, let’s call the whole thing off. . .

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:48 utc | 528

@261,
I hope you will be right in the end.
Will have to see what the next year will bring.
My main concern is if the Russian are actually prepared for this protracted war. There seem to be a lot of saboteurs inside Russia (thus the random arsons in different cities) and photos leaked almost instantly on social medias or telegrams of attacks.
It seems like FSB is still not prepared for this type of warfare as something SBU is. While I am not saying it should be a prison like Ukraine is right now, I don’t think these attacks actually help the mood in Russia if this will take a few more years.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:48 utc | 529

@261,
I hope you will be right in the end.
Will have to see what the next year will bring.
My main concern is if the Russian are actually prepared for this protracted war. There seem to be a lot of saboteurs inside Russia (thus the random arsons in different cities) and photos leaked almost instantly on social medias or telegrams of attacks.
It seems like FSB is still not prepared for this type of warfare as something SBU is. While I am not saying it should be a prison like Ukraine is right now, I don’t think these attacks actually help the mood in Russia if this will take a few more years.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 12:48 utc | 530

@ CitizenSmith re “crappy little countries”: This is why said country would preferentially be in Latin America. The USA could establish a large ground presence in a place like Mexico (an invasion of which is already being openly discussed, mind you) long before Russia or China could intervene.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:39 utc | 263
That would be, if not outright suicide, at least shooting itself in the foot with something packing a heavy punch.

Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 12:52 utc | 531

@ CitizenSmith re “crappy little countries”: This is why said country would preferentially be in Latin America. The USA could establish a large ground presence in a place like Mexico (an invasion of which is already being openly discussed, mind you) long before Russia or China could intervene.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 12:39 utc | 263
That would be, if not outright suicide, at least shooting itself in the foot with something packing a heavy punch.

Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 12:52 utc | 532

I really am stunned by statements like “patriotism that pushes war and destruction”.
I dont want to offend you, but not seeing that patriotism is no different from democracy/socialism/islam/christianity/liberalism/whatever you wanna fill in.
These are just tools. The cabal will use whatever term they feel fits their needs.
Its like asking for being killed by a granate instead of a bullet because you abhor bullets so much.

Posted by: Orgel | Sep 22 2023 12:55 utc | 533

I really am stunned by statements like “patriotism that pushes war and destruction”.
I dont want to offend you, but not seeing that patriotism is no different from democracy/socialism/islam/christianity/liberalism/whatever you wanna fill in.
These are just tools. The cabal will use whatever term they feel fits their needs.
Its like asking for being killed by a granate instead of a bullet because you abhor bullets so much.

Posted by: Orgel | Sep 22 2023 12:55 utc | 534

How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks like in Sevastopol, attacks on every front line with higher intensity than day before doesnt suffer any lack of ammunition or equipment and still uses an intact infrastructure to supply the front?
Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 22 2023 12:21 utc | 254

You ask how come Ukraine is able to attack at this place. Flipping it around, you could also ask, how come Ukraine isn’t able to launch any more attacks with missiles?
All these attacks get a high profile and a lot of attention, but weekly attacks can easily be counted with fingers of one hand. In order to Ukraine achieve this attack, they need to muster their 5 remaining Su-24 to a single target.
Also, the planes are most likely armed in Poland, refueled somewhere along the route, fly and launch and go back to Poland.
Btw, it’s easy to see this attack as once again removing attention from the incident between Poland-Ukraine, the fact that Zelensky got nothing more than cookie crumbs from the Americans, and further memory holing the summer counter-offensive. It’s been the exact same pattern every time Ukraine is losing badly.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 12:57 utc | 535

How the hell its possible that after such intensity’s of flattening the enemy still carries such sophisticated attacks like in Sevastopol, attacks on every front line with higher intensity than day before doesnt suffer any lack of ammunition or equipment and still uses an intact infrastructure to supply the front?
Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 22 2023 12:21 utc | 254

You ask how come Ukraine is able to attack at this place. Flipping it around, you could also ask, how come Ukraine isn’t able to launch any more attacks with missiles?
All these attacks get a high profile and a lot of attention, but weekly attacks can easily be counted with fingers of one hand. In order to Ukraine achieve this attack, they need to muster their 5 remaining Su-24 to a single target.
Also, the planes are most likely armed in Poland, refueled somewhere along the route, fly and launch and go back to Poland.
Btw, it’s easy to see this attack as once again removing attention from the incident between Poland-Ukraine, the fact that Zelensky got nothing more than cookie crumbs from the Americans, and further memory holing the summer counter-offensive. It’s been the exact same pattern every time Ukraine is losing badly.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 12:57 utc | 536

The simple thing would be to commit US military to the Ukraine war, with major support from Poland and NATO. There is less inertia to this option. The media narrative is working, public has already been prepared, the Ukraine regime is under control to follow orders, the tactics of Russian military is known, etc. To do all this in case of Taiwan will take time. As we saw, after the Pelosi drama the war party in Taiwan suffered defeat, so the public there is not ready for a war.
Moreover, as we have seen, it is hard to go on offensive in Ukraine for either side. So, if and when, Russia decides to go on the offensive they will suffer losses again. That would be a good time for US to come in. They would be able to declare some victory, strengthen the narrative that Putin is coming for Europe, and importantly drag this war for even longer.

Posted by: MB | Sep 22 2023 13:02 utc | 537

The simple thing would be to commit US military to the Ukraine war, with major support from Poland and NATO. There is less inertia to this option. The media narrative is working, public has already been prepared, the Ukraine regime is under control to follow orders, the tactics of Russian military is known, etc. To do all this in case of Taiwan will take time. As we saw, after the Pelosi drama the war party in Taiwan suffered defeat, so the public there is not ready for a war.
Moreover, as we have seen, it is hard to go on offensive in Ukraine for either side. So, if and when, Russia decides to go on the offensive they will suffer losses again. That would be a good time for US to come in. They would be able to declare some victory, strengthen the narrative that Putin is coming for Europe, and importantly drag this war for even longer.

Posted by: MB | Sep 22 2023 13:02 utc | 538

>>>Orgel | Sep 22 2023 12:55 utc | 269
“Patriot” simply implies a love for one’s country, and all the people in it—in contrast to a love for “the State.”
People who are lauded in history as a “Patriot” generally helped everyone in their State’s domain.
FDR was a patriot. Truman certainly wasn’t, because he was too stupid. Nobody since has been, either, although JFK might have been, had he not been eradicated by the CIA.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 13:05 utc | 539

>>>Orgel | Sep 22 2023 12:55 utc | 269
“Patriot” simply implies a love for one’s country, and all the people in it—in contrast to a love for “the State.”
People who are lauded in history as a “Patriot” generally helped everyone in their State’s domain.
FDR was a patriot. Truman certainly wasn’t, because he was too stupid. Nobody since has been, either, although JFK might have been, had he not been eradicated by the CIA.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 13:05 utc | 540

That would be, if not outright suicide, at least shooting itself in the foot with something packing a heavy punch.
Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 12:52 utc | 268

In other words, typical American imperial behavior.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 13:09 utc | 541

That would be, if not outright suicide, at least shooting itself in the foot with something packing a heavy punch.
Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 12:52 utc | 268

In other words, typical American imperial behavior.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 13:09 utc | 542

Posted by: MB | Sep 22 2023 13:02 utc | 271
The only benefit of US army or Polish army in Ukraine is that it releases the AFU garrisons in western Ukraine to be moved to the front east.
Could you imagine the US army coming to the front in Zaporozhye or Donbass? Too late for that IMO, it should have been done before the counter-offensive began. But Russia would probably welcome the proper US army into the Zaporozhye line, there’s never a better opportunity to inflict large casualties on American soldiers under more favorable circumstances.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 13:09 utc | 543

Posted by: MB | Sep 22 2023 13:02 utc | 271
The only benefit of US army or Polish army in Ukraine is that it releases the AFU garrisons in western Ukraine to be moved to the front east.
Could you imagine the US army coming to the front in Zaporozhye or Donbass? Too late for that IMO, it should have been done before the counter-offensive began. But Russia would probably welcome the proper US army into the Zaporozhye line, there’s never a better opportunity to inflict large casualties on American soldiers under more favorable circumstances.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 13:09 utc | 544

Oh dear—I forgot Eisenhower, who—decrepit and disabled as he was—put himself out there and warned us all of the deluge of corporate-military nonsensical deluge we are all now facing.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 13:10 utc | 545

Oh dear—I forgot Eisenhower, who—decrepit and disabled as he was—put himself out there and warned us all of the deluge of corporate-military nonsensical deluge we are all now facing.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 13:10 utc | 546

@275,
Eisenhower is the darling of the conservative right that constantly speak about MIC and the effects of it. The guy warned about the MIC but during his 2 terms, he had absolutely no issues doing coups in non-aligned countries like Iran and expanding the MIC because of the tensions with Soviet Union. Basically he was the same hardliner as it was Truman.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 13:16 utc | 547

@275,
Eisenhower is the darling of the conservative right that constantly speak about MIC and the effects of it. The guy warned about the MIC but during his 2 terms, he had absolutely no issues doing coups in non-aligned countries like Iran and expanding the MIC because of the tensions with Soviet Union. Basically he was the same hardliner as it was Truman.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 22 2023 13:16 utc | 548

They seem to mix missile with drones and the geniuses of the Black Sea fleet can’t intercept them, because they’re badly managed and low on resources. If it’s more than 3-4 it’s too much. Beloved general staff keeps all Pantsirs on their own buildings in Moscow, Crimea has to learn pickle jar defense (tass.com/politics/1679043)
Now there’s also this “‘Unprecedented’ cyber attack leaves many Crimeans without internet ” (tass.com/society/1679033)

Posted by: rk | Sep 22 2023 13:16 utc | 549

They seem to mix missile with drones and the geniuses of the Black Sea fleet can’t intercept them, because they’re badly managed and low on resources. If it’s more than 3-4 it’s too much. Beloved general staff keeps all Pantsirs on their own buildings in Moscow, Crimea has to learn pickle jar defense (tass.com/politics/1679043)
Now there’s also this “‘Unprecedented’ cyber attack leaves many Crimeans without internet ” (tass.com/society/1679033)

Posted by: rk | Sep 22 2023 13:16 utc | 550

Arch Bungle @ 227
Hope your son is OK. Also hope he has learned something about cats.
I once saw a small and senior cat kill a Rottweiler that easily outweighed kitty ten to one. The dog was behaving badly, harassing and frightening a three year old girl who was part of cat’s family. Bullies never correctly assess strengths and weaknesses. Nor do they see surprise attacks.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2023 13:29 utc | 551

Arch Bungle @ 227
Hope your son is OK. Also hope he has learned something about cats.
I once saw a small and senior cat kill a Rottweiler that easily outweighed kitty ten to one. The dog was behaving badly, harassing and frightening a three year old girl who was part of cat’s family. Bullies never correctly assess strengths and weaknesses. Nor do they see surprise attacks.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 22 2023 13:29 utc | 552

The growing controversy over Ukrainian grain exports is examined by Gilbert Doctorow today. He points out that the bulk of the exports come not from small Ukrainian owned farms but from the massive agri-businesses owned by US corporations and Biden friendly oligarchs.
It’s not just grain either: broiler chicken operations built on the availability of cheap grain are undercutting the farmers who form the foundation of the EU’s socio-economic architecture.
With elections coming up in Poland, Slovakia and Hungary even the most rabid russophobes cannot but criticise Ukraine’s US sponsored assault on the Common Agricultural Policies.
De-industrialisation is accompanied by a systematic undermining of Europe’s agriculture by oligarchs working hand in glove with US monopolists and Hedge Funds.
Another instance of the supposed Russian strategy of just holding the line while NATO pulls out all the stops to defeat itself and ruin Ukraine.
Doctorow is to be found at
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2023 13:36 utc | 553

The growing controversy over Ukrainian grain exports is examined by Gilbert Doctorow today. He points out that the bulk of the exports come not from small Ukrainian owned farms but from the massive agri-businesses owned by US corporations and Biden friendly oligarchs.
It’s not just grain either: broiler chicken operations built on the availability of cheap grain are undercutting the farmers who form the foundation of the EU’s socio-economic architecture.
With elections coming up in Poland, Slovakia and Hungary even the most rabid russophobes cannot but criticise Ukraine’s US sponsored assault on the Common Agricultural Policies.
De-industrialisation is accompanied by a systematic undermining of Europe’s agriculture by oligarchs working hand in glove with US monopolists and Hedge Funds.
Another instance of the supposed Russian strategy of just holding the line while NATO pulls out all the stops to defeat itself and ruin Ukraine.
Doctorow is to be found at
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2023 13:36 utc | 554

One of the spin offs from this war is the empiric demonstration that Ukraine is patently able to “semi-dominate” Crimea and the Black Fleet…with resources of only a handful of aircraft and a few donated twenty year old Storm Shadow/Scalp missiles. Personally, I would not have thought this possible. “Black Sea is just a Russian Lake. Nothing moves without Russian say so, etc”.
So how does this bode for the USA and Taiwan?…Taiwan coincidentally being a similar distance from the Chinese mainland as Sevastapol is from Odessa. But in the case of China we are not talking about a few old aircraft and a handful of donated old missiles…we are talking about thousands of aircraft and land based missile launchers…in tandem with tens of thousands of the latest missile technology. Put another way, I cannot now fathom how the US could carry a war to China.

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 22 2023 13:45 utc | 555

One of the spin offs from this war is the empiric demonstration that Ukraine is patently able to “semi-dominate” Crimea and the Black Fleet…with resources of only a handful of aircraft and a few donated twenty year old Storm Shadow/Scalp missiles. Personally, I would not have thought this possible. “Black Sea is just a Russian Lake. Nothing moves without Russian say so, etc”.
So how does this bode for the USA and Taiwan?…Taiwan coincidentally being a similar distance from the Chinese mainland as Sevastapol is from Odessa. But in the case of China we are not talking about a few old aircraft and a handful of donated old missiles…we are talking about thousands of aircraft and land based missile launchers…in tandem with tens of thousands of the latest missile technology. Put another way, I cannot now fathom how the US could carry a war to China.

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 22 2023 13:45 utc | 556

From Simplicius….
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/zelenskys-terrible-horrible-no-good
As if that wasn’t bad enough, U.S. appears to be facing severe sabotage or just the typical slow-decline of a decadent, overwrought civilization. Two days ago an F-35 crashed in South Carolina, to which the military authorities had to issue an embarrassing public appeal to help find the plane.
But the much more alarming sub-story revolves around rumors that there’s a coverup as to what really happened. The incident has many incongruities, and a top cyber security expert now claims the entire software security suite for the F-35 has been compromised:
Green Hills Software produces the Integrity 178B Operating System that powers the F-35, F-22, F-16, and B-2. It also powers the Airbus A380. It was also quite possibly leaked. Now you understand why the entire USMC air fleet has been grounded. Fun fact: the CEO of Green Hills Software is none other than infamous Elon Musk hater Dan O’Dowd.
The leak of air traffic control audio from the crash seems to suggest the ‘zombie’ plane flew on by itself after the pilot ejected, which is what resulted in their not having a clue where it actually crashed:
And why would a pilot even eject from a plane that’s still capable of flying for a long time on its own afterwards? It would almost suggest someone took remote control of the plane and hit the ejection button.

Will the F-35 lemon turn into a turkey???
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 22 2023 13:49 utc | 557

From Simplicius….
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/zelenskys-terrible-horrible-no-good
As if that wasn’t bad enough, U.S. appears to be facing severe sabotage or just the typical slow-decline of a decadent, overwrought civilization. Two days ago an F-35 crashed in South Carolina, to which the military authorities had to issue an embarrassing public appeal to help find the plane.
But the much more alarming sub-story revolves around rumors that there’s a coverup as to what really happened. The incident has many incongruities, and a top cyber security expert now claims the entire software security suite for the F-35 has been compromised:
Green Hills Software produces the Integrity 178B Operating System that powers the F-35, F-22, F-16, and B-2. It also powers the Airbus A380. It was also quite possibly leaked. Now you understand why the entire USMC air fleet has been grounded. Fun fact: the CEO of Green Hills Software is none other than infamous Elon Musk hater Dan O’Dowd.
The leak of air traffic control audio from the crash seems to suggest the ‘zombie’ plane flew on by itself after the pilot ejected, which is what resulted in their not having a clue where it actually crashed:
And why would a pilot even eject from a plane that’s still capable of flying for a long time on its own afterwards? It would almost suggest someone took remote control of the plane and hit the ejection button.

Will the F-35 lemon turn into a turkey???
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 22 2023 13:49 utc | 558

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 22 2023 13:45 utc | 280
One of the problems probably re. Crimea is Sevastopol is located on the tip of the peninsula. And re-routing the Storm shadow missile (which flies apparently very low over the water) only 15-20km is enough to avoid any radar in Olenivka. The low altitude decreases the range of detection of the missile, and leaves only the last line of defense on the very shore of Sevastopol to deal with it.
Maybe it would be possible to develop small AWACS drones which could be continuously deployed over the sea, between the coast of Ukraine and Crimea, which can fly at low altitudes and detect anything heading to Crimea.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 13:52 utc | 559

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 22 2023 13:45 utc | 280
One of the problems probably re. Crimea is Sevastopol is located on the tip of the peninsula. And re-routing the Storm shadow missile (which flies apparently very low over the water) only 15-20km is enough to avoid any radar in Olenivka. The low altitude decreases the range of detection of the missile, and leaves only the last line of defense on the very shore of Sevastopol to deal with it.
Maybe it would be possible to develop small AWACS drones which could be continuously deployed over the sea, between the coast of Ukraine and Crimea, which can fly at low altitudes and detect anything heading to Crimea.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 13:52 utc | 560

These days are marking the end of the world, as we’ve come to know it. The west’s $hitshow is still being run by blackmailed old men who were on the Epstein/Mossad/Rothschild client list. The truth can no longer be hidden. A new era is beginning. BRICS nations are leading the way. The time for the Rothschild ruling elite & their barbaric dreams of endless power via endless wars & big lies is ending now. Truth + transparent & cooperative political & economic systems are coming & they can’t be stopped. We will stop pouring trillions into the $H%Thole the elite’s propagandists call “defense”. Lights on, rats out. In the coming decades, our ‘civilization’ will become truly civilized, we’ll gradually make Food, Shelter, Health Care & Education guaranteed universal rights for all & finally learn to live in peace.

Posted by: Toby C | Sep 22 2023 13:53 utc | 561

These days are marking the end of the world, as we’ve come to know it. The west’s $hitshow is still being run by blackmailed old men who were on the Epstein/Mossad/Rothschild client list. The truth can no longer be hidden. A new era is beginning. BRICS nations are leading the way. The time for the Rothschild ruling elite & their barbaric dreams of endless power via endless wars & big lies is ending now. Truth + transparent & cooperative political & economic systems are coming & they can’t be stopped. We will stop pouring trillions into the $H%Thole the elite’s propagandists call “defense”. Lights on, rats out. In the coming decades, our ‘civilization’ will become truly civilized, we’ll gradually make Food, Shelter, Health Care & Education guaranteed universal rights for all & finally learn to live in peace.

Posted by: Toby C | Sep 22 2023 13:53 utc | 562

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 13:52 utc | 282
To expand on idea. Maybe developing some floating drones that carry radar and blanket the coast of Crimea with them. They are networked into the air defense grid.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 14:00 utc | 563

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 13:52 utc | 282
To expand on idea. Maybe developing some floating drones that carry radar and blanket the coast of Crimea with them. They are networked into the air defense grid.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 14:00 utc | 564

Ukraine Weekly Update – may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-807

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Sep 22 2023 14:27 utc | 565

Ukraine Weekly Update – may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-807

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Sep 22 2023 14:27 utc | 566

As updated TASS article reveals, there appears to be greater damage from Sevastopol missile strike that first reported. Fires, power & water supplies damaged. Obviously nothing unrepairable. I read one article that stated one (1) serviceman was killed, but another that said he was “missing”.
Not sure what Russia can do about overhead ISR planes and drones, but they seem to be the Black Sea achilles heel.
It maybe time for a”no fly zone “ call for Russia which would obviously seriously escalate things. Or maybe they will choose to carry on, not sure how “on the ground” they see things.
I’m still believing that the 2nd/3rd week in October will be the final concentrated push to collapse most of the line, take Zaporozhye & Khearson.
Anyways … link
https://tass.com/politics/1679105

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 14:35 utc | 567

As updated TASS article reveals, there appears to be greater damage from Sevastopol missile strike that first reported. Fires, power & water supplies damaged. Obviously nothing unrepairable. I read one article that stated one (1) serviceman was killed, but another that said he was “missing”.
Not sure what Russia can do about overhead ISR planes and drones, but they seem to be the Black Sea achilles heel.
It maybe time for a”no fly zone “ call for Russia which would obviously seriously escalate things. Or maybe they will choose to carry on, not sure how “on the ground” they see things.
I’m still believing that the 2nd/3rd week in October will be the final concentrated push to collapse most of the line, take Zaporozhye & Khearson.
Anyways … link
https://tass.com/politics/1679105

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 14:35 utc | 568

RT – Simonjan 22.9.:
The missile attack on the Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Sevastopol was carried out by the collective West at the hands of Kiev, RT chief Margarita Simonyan said in Telegram. In her opinion, the West should be given an ultimatum that Russia regards it as a full-fledged participant in the conflict. The journalist believes that the number of attacks and their scale will grow exponentially.
Today’s strike on Sevastopol, carried out by the collective West ruling Kiev, only confirms my theory that escalation will continue exponentially until we are forced to give them all an ultimatum that from now on we will treat them as participants in the conflict, i.e. military opponents, which they are. I don’t see any other outcome,” Simonyan wrote.
On the afternoon of 22 September, Sevastopol Governor Mikhail Razvozhayev reported an AFU missile attack on the Black Sea Fleet headquarters. Later, the Russian Defence Ministry confirmed this information. According to the ministry, a serviceman was killed in the strike. It is also reported that one serviceman is missing. In addition, the historical building of the Black Sea Fleet was damaged. According to the Ministry of Defence, the air defence forces shot down a total of five AFU missiles on the approach to Sevastopol.

Posted by: Oberbayer | Sep 22 2023 14:44 utc | 569

RT – Simonjan 22.9.:
The missile attack on the Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Sevastopol was carried out by the collective West at the hands of Kiev, RT chief Margarita Simonyan said in Telegram. In her opinion, the West should be given an ultimatum that Russia regards it as a full-fledged participant in the conflict. The journalist believes that the number of attacks and their scale will grow exponentially.
Today’s strike on Sevastopol, carried out by the collective West ruling Kiev, only confirms my theory that escalation will continue exponentially until we are forced to give them all an ultimatum that from now on we will treat them as participants in the conflict, i.e. military opponents, which they are. I don’t see any other outcome,” Simonyan wrote.
On the afternoon of 22 September, Sevastopol Governor Mikhail Razvozhayev reported an AFU missile attack on the Black Sea Fleet headquarters. Later, the Russian Defence Ministry confirmed this information. According to the ministry, a serviceman was killed in the strike. It is also reported that one serviceman is missing. In addition, the historical building of the Black Sea Fleet was damaged. According to the Ministry of Defence, the air defence forces shot down a total of five AFU missiles on the approach to Sevastopol.

Posted by: Oberbayer | Sep 22 2023 14:44 utc | 570

What’s loss ? Like, today, the headquarters of the black sea fleet got hit…

Posted by: Prune | Sep 22 2023 14:48 utc | 571

What’s loss ? Like, today, the headquarters of the black sea fleet got hit…

Posted by: Prune | Sep 22 2023 14:48 utc | 572

So how does this bode for the USA and Taiwan?…Taiwan coincidentally being a similar distance from the Chinese mainland as Sevastapol is from Odessa. But in the case of China we are not talking about a few old aircraft and a handful of donated old missiles…we are talking about thousands of aircraft and land based missile launchers…in tandem with tens of thousands of the latest missile technology. Put another way, I cannot now fathom how the US could carry a war to China.
Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 22 2023 13:45 utc | 280
The variables of a sino-american war are enough to make my head spin but distant blockade and standoff cruise missile attacks come to mind for a start.

Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 14:48 utc | 573

So how does this bode for the USA and Taiwan?…Taiwan coincidentally being a similar distance from the Chinese mainland as Sevastapol is from Odessa. But in the case of China we are not talking about a few old aircraft and a handful of donated old missiles…we are talking about thousands of aircraft and land based missile launchers…in tandem with tens of thousands of the latest missile technology. Put another way, I cannot now fathom how the US could carry a war to China.
Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 22 2023 13:45 utc | 280
The variables of a sino-american war are enough to make my head spin but distant blockade and standoff cruise missile attacks come to mind for a start.

Posted by: Satepestage | Sep 22 2023 14:48 utc | 574

Probably by escalating his war on American conservatives.
This. Joe’s incontinent rage will be directed at the Republican base.

Posted by: Fred777 | Sep 22 2023 14:50 utc | 575

Probably by escalating his war on American conservatives.
This. Joe’s incontinent rage will be directed at the Republican base.

Posted by: Fred777 | Sep 22 2023 14:50 utc | 576

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 22 2023 13:49 utc | 281 “The leak of air traffic control audio”
What does that mean? Air traffic control audio is public. Anyone can hear it and record it. How can that be “leaked”?

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 14:50 utc | 577

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 22 2023 13:49 utc | 281 “The leak of air traffic control audio”
What does that mean? Air traffic control audio is public. Anyone can hear it and record it. How can that be “leaked”?

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 14:50 utc | 578

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 14:00 utc | 284 “developing some floating drones that carry radar and blanket the coast of Crimea with them”
Russia had radar on those oil/gas platforms in the Black Sea that Ukraine raided.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 14:53 utc | 579

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 14:00 utc | 284 “developing some floating drones that carry radar and blanket the coast of Crimea with them”
Russia had radar on those oil/gas platforms in the Black Sea that Ukraine raided.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 22 2023 14:53 utc | 580

Losing the war in Ukraine is only one of the causative factors leading to the Democrats main problem, which is what happens if they lose the forthcoming election.
Once the Democrats lose control of the Department of Justice, the prisons will not be big enough to hold all the crooks, thieves, and liars in the Democrat Party.
They have tried raising the spectre of COVID again; getting their obedient lackeys to put on masks and do a pretend panic, but that obviously is not going to work. The mail-in ballot scam is looking a bit dodgy.
The answer to b’s question,”How will they cope with losing” is answered by the attack on the Sevastopol Naval HQ. If they cannot win the election they can cancel it by provoking all out war, declaring martial law and staying in power for ever.
What is in the public domain about corruption, the Epstein related offences against children, and treason is just the tip of the iceberg. These people would prefer to start all out war rather than have their crimes made public and be forced to face a true and impartial justice.
We can only hope and pray that the Russians are up to the task of dealing effectively with escalating provocation without provoking total destruction by nuclear fireballs. But deal the `Russians must; the dynamics are clear; the provocations will continue until they are effectively countered.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 22 2023 14:56 utc | 581

Losing the war in Ukraine is only one of the causative factors leading to the Democrats main problem, which is what happens if they lose the forthcoming election.
Once the Democrats lose control of the Department of Justice, the prisons will not be big enough to hold all the crooks, thieves, and liars in the Democrat Party.
They have tried raising the spectre of COVID again; getting their obedient lackeys to put on masks and do a pretend panic, but that obviously is not going to work. The mail-in ballot scam is looking a bit dodgy.
The answer to b’s question,”How will they cope with losing” is answered by the attack on the Sevastopol Naval HQ. If they cannot win the election they can cancel it by provoking all out war, declaring martial law and staying in power for ever.
What is in the public domain about corruption, the Epstein related offences against children, and treason is just the tip of the iceberg. These people would prefer to start all out war rather than have their crimes made public and be forced to face a true and impartial justice.
We can only hope and pray that the Russians are up to the task of dealing effectively with escalating provocation without provoking total destruction by nuclear fireballs. But deal the `Russians must; the dynamics are clear; the provocations will continue until they are effectively countered.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 22 2023 14:56 utc | 582

unimperator: many thanks for providing sane comments! Often I feel the need to say something but then I don’t have to because of you.
Here’s a typical example I will address:

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 5:30 utc | 203
Directly answering b’s question: I see us moving into full war, between the US and Russia.

While this can happen, chances for full war are slim: specifically the US have been careful to deny military involvement. We know it’s silly pretense but for example UK, France and Germany are enmeshed more directly (Poland too).
USA representatives have mentioned that the war is good because it (a) is killing Russians/harming Russia without dead US troops, (b) gains them military knowledge on a modern battlefield, (c) got Finland (and presumably Sweden) into NATO, (d) decoupling EU/Germany from Russian energy (not totally true but good progress anyway). There are some other benefits that you know about and they’re certainly happy about such as EU deindustrialisation towards USA.
Direct war between nuclear powers is complicated (e.g. India-Pakistan always stopped after skirmishes). You know that North Korea is sitting on all axis-of-evil lists and is sanctioned to hell but was never attacked.
I am confident that the only way a full war USA-Russia starts is by accident. I don’t think Team Biden wants that war: in my opinion, they want to keep this conflict simmering forever, good for domestic purposes and another thorn in Russia’s side… but even *if* Team Biden wants it, I doubt they’d get it.

Posted by: Konami | Sep 22 2023 15:01 utc | 583

unimperator: many thanks for providing sane comments! Often I feel the need to say something but then I don’t have to because of you.
Here’s a typical example I will address:

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 5:30 utc | 203
Directly answering b’s question: I see us moving into full war, between the US and Russia.

While this can happen, chances for full war are slim: specifically the US have been careful to deny military involvement. We know it’s silly pretense but for example UK, France and Germany are enmeshed more directly (Poland too).
USA representatives have mentioned that the war is good because it (a) is killing Russians/harming Russia without dead US troops, (b) gains them military knowledge on a modern battlefield, (c) got Finland (and presumably Sweden) into NATO, (d) decoupling EU/Germany from Russian energy (not totally true but good progress anyway). There are some other benefits that you know about and they’re certainly happy about such as EU deindustrialisation towards USA.
Direct war between nuclear powers is complicated (e.g. India-Pakistan always stopped after skirmishes). You know that North Korea is sitting on all axis-of-evil lists and is sanctioned to hell but was never attacked.
I am confident that the only way a full war USA-Russia starts is by accident. I don’t think Team Biden wants that war: in my opinion, they want to keep this conflict simmering forever, good for domestic purposes and another thorn in Russia’s side… but even *if* Team Biden wants it, I doubt they’d get it.

Posted by: Konami | Sep 22 2023 15:01 utc | 584

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 22 2023 3:02 utc | 183
Word of advice my friend, don’t take rhetoric so literally and seriously. I don’t when I post it.
===============================================
Nor do I; indeed, my post was clearly playful in tone and structure. That said, there was a serious point:
That ‘America’ is ‘the Empire of Lies’ is itself a Big Lie. There IS an ‘Empire of Lies’ but it’s not ‘America’ (which no longer exists as such) and calling it so furthers the deception.
But that’s just my opinion.
You disagree.
No problem.
No need to start lecturing others how to think!
(Classic ‘Empire of Lies’ tactic!)

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 15:03 utc | 585

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 22 2023 3:02 utc | 183
Word of advice my friend, don’t take rhetoric so literally and seriously. I don’t when I post it.
===============================================
Nor do I; indeed, my post was clearly playful in tone and structure. That said, there was a serious point:
That ‘America’ is ‘the Empire of Lies’ is itself a Big Lie. There IS an ‘Empire of Lies’ but it’s not ‘America’ (which no longer exists as such) and calling it so furthers the deception.
But that’s just my opinion.
You disagree.
No problem.
No need to start lecturing others how to think!
(Classic ‘Empire of Lies’ tactic!)

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 15:03 utc | 586

To some extend the answer is obvious: They will redefine “victory”.
But I think the discussion is a bit premature:
Are we talking about conflict frozen – with rest of Ukraine as proxy of west?
I would see that as “defeat” for Russia.
But alternative leaves a lot to be done, and then
Are we talking about up to the Dnieper?
All of Ukraine?
Then whatever the outcome, is to make it lasting.
This is why wars are rarely “won”.
The real war is the economic war – the alternative to global domination.
So what is this posting really about?

Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2023 15:10 utc | 587

To some extend the answer is obvious: They will redefine “victory”.
But I think the discussion is a bit premature:
Are we talking about conflict frozen – with rest of Ukraine as proxy of west?
I would see that as “defeat” for Russia.
But alternative leaves a lot to be done, and then
Are we talking about up to the Dnieper?
All of Ukraine?
Then whatever the outcome, is to make it lasting.
This is why wars are rarely “won”.
The real war is the economic war – the alternative to global domination.
So what is this posting really about?

Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2023 15:10 utc | 588

How will Biden cope? Just like the Europeans – who are in a mich more difficult position.
The Ukraine – war was needed to stop the discussion of the EU-US-NATO-desaster in Afghanistan.
Just one problem: the “solution” has multiplied the problem. Not only has the West list yet another war. With the latest one, they have overplayed their cards and dragged their countries into a downward spiral.
No way they’ll face that discussion.
They’ll start another war, to rally the troops and postpone the discussion.
The only hope-and the loop back to Biden: some politicians seem to start seeing the light: they start to realize that they’ll have the government bey the short and curlies if they demand answers before agreeing to support extending the war.

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 22 2023 15:10 utc | 589

How will Biden cope? Just like the Europeans – who are in a mich more difficult position.
The Ukraine – war was needed to stop the discussion of the EU-US-NATO-desaster in Afghanistan.
Just one problem: the “solution” has multiplied the problem. Not only has the West list yet another war. With the latest one, they have overplayed their cards and dragged their countries into a downward spiral.
No way they’ll face that discussion.
They’ll start another war, to rally the troops and postpone the discussion.
The only hope-and the loop back to Biden: some politicians seem to start seeing the light: they start to realize that they’ll have the government bey the short and curlies if they demand answers before agreeing to support extending the war.

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 22 2023 15:10 utc | 590

They are not losing anything yet, Russia can’t move forward either or at least they won’t pay that price.
The goal of wearing down Russia is going to be 10x harder than they thought. Soon they will enter west Ukraine if random destruction of Crimea does not work.
My guess is they thought Syria would be easy pickens in the future but nope…
https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20230922-china-s-xi-hails-strategic-partnership-with-syria-s-assad
Today, we will jointly announce the establishment of the China-Syria strategic partnership, which will become an important milestone in the history of bilateral relations,” Xi told Assad, according to a readout from state broadcaster CCTV.
They are(every country) gearing up for war, once the factories are all going we will see death on a scale that is unimaginable. Our Canadian leader was too scared to get on his jet in India and the Indians are killing Canadians in the streets of Canada calling us terrorists. Next their drones will be bombing weddings in Edmonton if this keeps going the way it’s going.
400 years of payback is something the west needs to be very concerned with
“Faced with an international situation full of instability and uncertainty, China is willing to continue to work together with Syria, firmly support each other, promote friendly cooperation, and jointly defend international fairness and justice,” he added.

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 22 2023 15:11 utc | 591

They are not losing anything yet, Russia can’t move forward either or at least they won’t pay that price.
The goal of wearing down Russia is going to be 10x harder than they thought. Soon they will enter west Ukraine if random destruction of Crimea does not work.
My guess is they thought Syria would be easy pickens in the future but nope…
https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20230922-china-s-xi-hails-strategic-partnership-with-syria-s-assad
Today, we will jointly announce the establishment of the China-Syria strategic partnership, which will become an important milestone in the history of bilateral relations,” Xi told Assad, according to a readout from state broadcaster CCTV.
They are(every country) gearing up for war, once the factories are all going we will see death on a scale that is unimaginable. Our Canadian leader was too scared to get on his jet in India and the Indians are killing Canadians in the streets of Canada calling us terrorists. Next their drones will be bombing weddings in Edmonton if this keeps going the way it’s going.
400 years of payback is something the west needs to be very concerned with
“Faced with an international situation full of instability and uncertainty, China is willing to continue to work together with Syria, firmly support each other, promote friendly cooperation, and jointly defend international fairness and justice,” he added.

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 22 2023 15:11 utc | 592

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Sep 22 2023 14:27 utc | 285
Very nice Rob, thanks 🙂

Posted by: Tim | Sep 22 2023 15:15 utc | 593

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Sep 22 2023 14:27 utc | 285
Very nice Rob, thanks 🙂

Posted by: Tim | Sep 22 2023 15:15 utc | 594

Although the proxy war against Russia and Cold War against China are failures. America will continue to use military violence. American elites believe that plain old fashioned physical coercion as the expression and maintainer of power works when in the long run it won’t save American global Imperial domination.
American economic power is diminishing, its soft power is gone. BRICS, de dollarization, Asia’s rise and Russia and China organizing the Global South to defy America are effective counters to the reassertion of American proxy, cold and hot war. American finance capitalism can’t compete against Industrial state capitalism. Finance capitalism isn’t benefitting America but de developing the country and sinking into social and political chaos. The point of American military imperial power is to coerce the world into accepting the exploitation of American finance capitalism and its need for inequality and super profits and this project long term won’t work. China and Russia are saying no, America is saying “fine” we fight wars over that but the wars won’t stop America’s Imperial and internal decline.

Posted by: Bakunin17 | Sep 22 2023 15:17 utc | 595

Although the proxy war against Russia and Cold War against China are failures. America will continue to use military violence. American elites believe that plain old fashioned physical coercion as the expression and maintainer of power works when in the long run it won’t save American global Imperial domination.
American economic power is diminishing, its soft power is gone. BRICS, de dollarization, Asia’s rise and Russia and China organizing the Global South to defy America are effective counters to the reassertion of American proxy, cold and hot war. American finance capitalism can’t compete against Industrial state capitalism. Finance capitalism isn’t benefitting America but de developing the country and sinking into social and political chaos. The point of American military imperial power is to coerce the world into accepting the exploitation of American finance capitalism and its need for inequality and super profits and this project long term won’t work. China and Russia are saying no, America is saying “fine” we fight wars over that but the wars won’t stop America’s Imperial and internal decline.

Posted by: Bakunin17 | Sep 22 2023 15:17 utc | 596

Guy Thornton@280
Ukraine’s involvement seems to be largely restricted to providing bases and alibis. The attacks in Crimea are entirely the work of NATO forces. My suspicion is that the political authorities in Washington etc are kept, probably with their agreement, largely in the dark and that these attacks are carried out by theatre commanders.
What is beyond doubt is that the intelligence and technical resources, the weapons involved and the means of delivery are all supplied by NATO.
The thinking of NATO officers seems to be that Russia will put up with just about any provocation without responding. And that, should any response be forthcoming it will have been cleared-through secret channels- in advance with NATO.
The idea that ukraine is responsible for anything more than supplying manpower and corpses, hosting the clever bastards in SAS or whatever who do the dirty work and making no protest as AWACS controls their airspace, does not seem very likely to me.
NATO is involved in a game of chicken- they are trying to accelerate the moment at which Russia tells them, directly, that the next step will be nuclear. Russia’s mistake is to continue to believe that when they adopted capitalism and broke up the USSR anything changed. All that happened was that its enemies became emboldened.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2023 15:19 utc | 597

Guy Thornton@280
Ukraine’s involvement seems to be largely restricted to providing bases and alibis. The attacks in Crimea are entirely the work of NATO forces. My suspicion is that the political authorities in Washington etc are kept, probably with their agreement, largely in the dark and that these attacks are carried out by theatre commanders.
What is beyond doubt is that the intelligence and technical resources, the weapons involved and the means of delivery are all supplied by NATO.
The thinking of NATO officers seems to be that Russia will put up with just about any provocation without responding. And that, should any response be forthcoming it will have been cleared-through secret channels- in advance with NATO.
The idea that ukraine is responsible for anything more than supplying manpower and corpses, hosting the clever bastards in SAS or whatever who do the dirty work and making no protest as AWACS controls their airspace, does not seem very likely to me.
NATO is involved in a game of chicken- they are trying to accelerate the moment at which Russia tells them, directly, that the next step will be nuclear. Russia’s mistake is to continue to believe that when they adopted capitalism and broke up the USSR anything changed. All that happened was that its enemies became emboldened.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2023 15:19 utc | 598

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143
“I just wish that a fuckin’ sight more amerikans would wake up to the illness that their elites suffer from and get rid of ’em all themselves.”
I have often thought that American patriots administering a few double taps to Neocon skulls
would go a long way to solving our problem.

Posted by: Morongobill | Sep 22 2023 15:21 utc | 599

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143
“I just wish that a fuckin’ sight more amerikans would wake up to the illness that their elites suffer from and get rid of ’em all themselves.”
I have often thought that American patriots administering a few double taps to Neocon skulls
would go a long way to solving our problem.

Posted by: Morongobill | Sep 22 2023 15:21 utc | 600