Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 21, 2023
How Will The Biden Administration Cope With Its Loss In Ukraine?

While this piece will touch on the war in Ukraine it is more about the U.S., and the Biden administration, and how they will cope with their  defeat in their war on Russia. Please keep that in mind when commentating.

Washington's moment of recognizing the defeat in Ukraine, and its consequences, has yet to arrive.

In his latest piece (archived) Seymour Hersh reports on the state of the war and of significant differences of opinion between the U.S. intelligence services:

There are significant elements in the American intelligence community, relying on field reports and technical intelligence, who believe that the demoralized Ukraine army has given up on the possibility of overcoming the heavily mined three-tier Russian defense lines and taking the war to Crimea and the four oblasts seized and annexed by Russia. The reality is that Volodymyr Zelensky’s battered army no longer has any chance of a victory.

The war continues, I have been told by an official with access to current intelligence, because Zelensky insists that it must. There is no discussion in his headquarters or in the Biden White House of a ceasefire and no interest in talks that could lead to an end to the slaughter. “It’s all lies,” the official said, speaking of the Ukrainian claims of incremental progress in the offensive that has suffered staggering losses, while gaining ground in a few scattered areas that the Ukrainian military measures in meters per week.

The American intelligence official I spoke with spent the early years of his career working against Soviet aggression and spying has respect for Putin’s intellect but contempt for his decision to go to war with Ukraine and to initiate the death and destruction that war brings. But, as he told me, “The war is over. Russia has won. There is no Ukrainian offensive anymore, but the White House and the American media have to keep the lie going.

“The truth is if the Ukrainian army is ordered to continue the offensive, the army would mutiny. The soldiers aren’t willing to die any more, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”

The differences between the current CIA and the more neoconned Defense Intelligence Agency extend to their view on China:

A byproduct of the Biden administration’s neocon hostility to Russia and China—exemplified by the remarks of Secretary of State Tony Blinken, who has repeatedly stated that he will not currently countenance a ceasefire in Ukraine—has been a significant split in the intelligence community. One casualty are the secret National Intelligence Estimates that have delineated the parameters of American foreign policy for decades. Some key offices in the CIA have refused, in many cases, to participate in the NIE process because of profound political disagreement with the administration’s aggressive foreign policy. One recent failure involved a planned NIE that dealt with the outcome of a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

I have reported for many weeks on the longstanding disagreement between the CIA and other elements of the intelligence community on the prognosis of the current war in the Ukraine. CIA analysts have consistently been far more skeptical than their counterparts at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) on the prospect for a Ukraine success. The American media has ignored the dispute, but the London-headquartered Economist, whose well-informed reporters do not get bylines, has not.

The DIA is still saying that the Ukrainian army has a chance, a small one though, to break through the Russian lines. The White House still seems to believe in that. The CIA knows that the Ukraine is done.

Alastair Crooke, in a talk (vid) with Judge Napolitano, says that the moment of truth will only arrive in November.

But what will happen when everyone recognizes and acknowledges, if silently, that the war on Russia has failed?

Michael Brenner argues that the US Can’t Deal With Defeat:

Ukraine, today, has suffered huge losses of even greater (proportional) magnitude [than the German Wehrmacht in the Battle of Kursk], without achieving any significant territorial gains, unable even to reach the first layer of the Surovikin Line. That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine. Hence, Moscow is poised to exploit its decisive advantage to the point where it can dictate terms to Kiev, Washington, Brussels et al.

The Biden administration has made no plans for such an eventuality, nor have its obedient European governments. Their divorce from reality will make this state of affairs all the more stunning — and galling. Bereft of ideas, they will flounder. How they will react is unknowable. We can say with certainty one thing: the collective West, and especially the U.S., will have suffered a grave defeat. Coping with that truth will become the main order of business.

Here is a menu of options for handling it:

Redefine what is meant by defeat, victory, failure, success, loss, gain. There is a new narrative that is scripted to stress these talking points: …

This narrative already has been given an airing in speeches by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Acting Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Its target audience is the American public; nobody outside the Collective West buys it, though — whether Washington has registered that fact of diplomatic life or not.

Retroactively Scale Back the Goals & Stakes

Cultivate Amnesia

Next: China

It is likely that the administration will use all four options to make the pain and memory of defeat go away. Declare victory over Russia  because Russia was stopped at the border with Poland. Then forget about all the details and consequences and move towards war on China.

That could end catastrophically.

The focal shift from Russia in Europe to China in Asia is less a mechanism for coping with defeat than the pathological reaction of a country that, feeling a gnawing sense of diminishing prowess, can manage to do nothing more than try one final fling at proving to itself that it still has the right stuff — since living without that exalted sense of self is intolerable.

The U.S. was fortunate, in the case of Vietnam, that the United States’ dominant position in the world outside of the Soviet Bloc and the PRC allowed it to maintain respect, status and influence.

Things have now changed, though. The U.S. relative strength in all domains is weaker, strong centrifugal forces around the globe are producing a dispersion of power, will and outlook among other states. The BRICs phenomenon is the concrete embodiment of that reality.

Hence, the prerogatives of the United States are narrowing, its ability to shape the global system in conformity with its ideas and interests are under mounting challenge, and premiums are being placed on diplomacy of an order that seems beyond its present aptitudes.

The U.S. is confounded.

Major offices in the CIA, according to Hersh, have recognized the danger of such plans. It may well be the reason why the CIA's informal spokesmen, David Ignatius, and others wrote that Biden should step down.

If he doesn't the neoconservatives around him will have a great incentive to move on China as fast as possible. As Biden will have difficulties in winning next year's election he needs some objective that can unify the country. A war that he can claim the U.S. will win is one. Some hostile naval exchanges with China will follow.

(Please don't use the comments of this thread for details from the war in Ukraine. The current thread for such is here.)

Comments

If Russia or China docks a container ship, gives free passage to new world.
MILLIONS WOULD FLEE THIS HELLSCAPE OF EXPLOITATION.
If they provided 10k /yr x ten years, in their brics alternative currencies digitally to Americans. The dollar would become extinct in ten years without goods or trade.
End the war, help us help you create an alternative money exchange, we’ll end the dollar ourselves

Posted by: Redwhiteorange | Sep 22 2023 0:20 utc | 301

If Russia or China docks a container ship, gives free passage to new world.
MILLIONS WOULD FLEE THIS HELLSCAPE OF EXPLOITATION.
If they provided 10k /yr x ten years, in their brics alternative currencies digitally to Americans. The dollar would become extinct in ten years without goods or trade.
End the war, help us help you create an alternative money exchange, we’ll end the dollar ourselves

Posted by: Redwhiteorange | Sep 22 2023 0:20 utc | 302

Like all of you here, I’m into geopolitics. What happens around the world matters. Lately, I’ve turned a bit inward. Our domestic problems are insurmountable. A divided country will soon fall. So what happens next? 10,000 homeless in Sacramento, the capital of the once great state of California. Doesn’t sound like a recipe for success, if you ask me. What do I know? Just an old bastard that’s seem way too much. Peace everyone.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 22 2023 0:23 utc | 303

Like all of you here, I’m into geopolitics. What happens around the world matters. Lately, I’ve turned a bit inward. Our domestic problems are insurmountable. A divided country will soon fall. So what happens next? 10,000 homeless in Sacramento, the capital of the once great state of California. Doesn’t sound like a recipe for success, if you ask me. What do I know? Just an old bastard that’s seem way too much. Peace everyone.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 22 2023 0:23 utc | 304

About Taiwan:
Consider if China will organise a complet blockade of the island (no ship no airplane could go in or out of the island), what will happen?
What could the yankees do?
After all, they are the same country, so that it is matter of internal policy.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:25 utc | 305

About Taiwan:
Consider if China will organise a complet blockade of the island (no ship no airplane could go in or out of the island), what will happen?
What could the yankees do?
After all, they are the same country, so that it is matter of internal policy.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:25 utc | 306

I spelled capitol wrong. Sue me.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 22 2023 0:28 utc | 307

I spelled capitol wrong. Sue me.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 22 2023 0:28 utc | 308

PNAC = Project for a new achievement of China.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:29 utc | 309

PNAC = Project for a new achievement of China.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:29 utc | 310

Please stop using “neoconservatives”.
They are “Neo-liberal warmongers”.
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:18 utc | 133
I like néocons.
con (French) = Stupid, fool, idiot.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:34 utc | 311

Please stop using “neoconservatives”.
They are “Neo-liberal warmongers”.
Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:18 utc | 133
I like néocons.
con (French) = Stupid, fool, idiot.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:34 utc | 312

RE: Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143
A couple of thoughts for you…
Where are these “gazillion” weapons going to be manufactured?… China?
By the time this MIC retools, redesigns & actually opens a plant… they still need raw materials… that might be a problem soon…
“Dima” says a lot of things…
As for Americans waking up, and it probably will occur in the most abrupt rude way, we’d hardly be the first, and agree with you that other Nations have a longer memory than Americans.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 0:37 utc | 313

RE: Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143
A couple of thoughts for you…
Where are these “gazillion” weapons going to be manufactured?… China?
By the time this MIC retools, redesigns & actually opens a plant… they still need raw materials… that might be a problem soon…
“Dima” says a lot of things…
As for Americans waking up, and it probably will occur in the most abrupt rude way, we’d hardly be the first, and agree with you that other Nations have a longer memory than Americans.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 0:37 utc | 314

Immaculate deception: You were right the first time. Capital = city. Capitol = building.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 0:38 utc | 315

Immaculate deception: You were right the first time. Capital = city. Capitol = building.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 0:38 utc | 316

The bigger question, is what will Russia do?
What will they do so the West finally takes them seriously?
This can not end with ” Oh, sorry, all good. Good Match, we might have more luck, next time.”

Posted by: Dragan | Sep 22 2023 0:39 utc | 317

The bigger question, is what will Russia do?
What will they do so the West finally takes them seriously?
This can not end with ” Oh, sorry, all good. Good Match, we might have more luck, next time.”

Posted by: Dragan | Sep 22 2023 0:39 utc | 318

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 21 2023 21:03 utc | 96
Russia and China are peer competitors.
Posted by: marcjf | Sep 21 2023 21:21 utc | 100
So how does the US cope with defeat? <=it doesn't, the question is how do the Oligarch owned NHOs that own and control everything cope with defeat? America is not defeated, but the aspiration of many privately owned corporations that control the government policies might find themselves defeated? Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 21:34 utc | 109 the international billionaire class in all blocs has been steadily increasing global wealth share. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 21:45 utc | 113 Cargill, Monsanto, Exxon-Mobil, and other large conglomerates in the extractive and agribusiness sectors? Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 21 2023 22:08 utc | 115 Main focus will be on the [naive] Public - with total control of media it will be sold as "weakening Russia and saving Europe" Posted by: Mercury | Sep 21 2023 22:42 utc | 122 will converge to common goal outcome (and sought by Black Rock/Vanguard etc financially pushing and Senator funding). https://www.governmentcontractswon.com/department/defense/idaho_counties.asp/
<=The point is foreign policy in the west is mandated on government officials by the privately owned monopoly powers located inside of the Non- human organizations (NHOs)..these organizations simultaneously operate in nearly every nation state. see those named above for starters. I believe most of the governed people wherever located see the war in Ukraine very differently from the way those in control of the western governments see the war in Ukraine, the sanction policies seeking to suppress competition and the militaries performing for the profit seeking Oligarchs. Governed citizens see the war in Ukraine, the anti-competition sanction wars, and the giving of Taxpayer money to foreign interest as a guns or butter decision. Those who are the governed have long since decided on butter. Maybe guns vs butter explains why many feel media narratives and voting processes are rigged? Its a joke that government officials set foreign and military policy.. the bureaucrats in agencies are yes people trying to find out how high is high enough. It is the Oligarchs and their multinational transglobal NHOs (corporations, governments, trust, partnerships, NGOs and the like) that establish local, regional, national and international policies. Policy is off base to the governed. I think as people come-to-understand that the privately owned, non human organizations (NHOs) and the Oligarchs that own them, establish the government policies and dictate the narratives appearing in media that a very strong boomerang response is likely.

Posted by: snake | Sep 22 2023 0:42 utc | 319

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 21 2023 21:03 utc | 96
Russia and China are peer competitors.
Posted by: marcjf | Sep 21 2023 21:21 utc | 100
So how does the US cope with defeat? <=it doesn't, the question is how do the Oligarch owned NHOs that own and control everything cope with defeat? America is not defeated, but the aspiration of many privately owned corporations that control the government policies might find themselves defeated? Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 21:34 utc | 109 the international billionaire class in all blocs has been steadily increasing global wealth share. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 21:45 utc | 113 Cargill, Monsanto, Exxon-Mobil, and other large conglomerates in the extractive and agribusiness sectors? Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 21 2023 22:08 utc | 115 Main focus will be on the [naive] Public - with total control of media it will be sold as "weakening Russia and saving Europe" Posted by: Mercury | Sep 21 2023 22:42 utc | 122 will converge to common goal outcome (and sought by Black Rock/Vanguard etc financially pushing and Senator funding). https://www.governmentcontractswon.com/department/defense/idaho_counties.asp/
<=The point is foreign policy in the west is mandated on government officials by the privately owned monopoly powers located inside of the Non- human organizations (NHOs)..these organizations simultaneously operate in nearly every nation state. see those named above for starters. I believe most of the governed people wherever located see the war in Ukraine very differently from the way those in control of the western governments see the war in Ukraine, the sanction policies seeking to suppress competition and the militaries performing for the profit seeking Oligarchs. Governed citizens see the war in Ukraine, the anti-competition sanction wars, and the giving of Taxpayer money to foreign interest as a guns or butter decision. Those who are the governed have long since decided on butter. Maybe guns vs butter explains why many feel media narratives and voting processes are rigged? Its a joke that government officials set foreign and military policy.. the bureaucrats in agencies are yes people trying to find out how high is high enough. It is the Oligarchs and their multinational transglobal NHOs (corporations, governments, trust, partnerships, NGOs and the like) that establish local, regional, national and international policies. Policy is off base to the governed. I think as people come-to-understand that the privately owned, non human organizations (NHOs) and the Oligarchs that own them, establish the government policies and dictate the narratives appearing in media that a very strong boomerang response is likely.

Posted by: snake | Sep 22 2023 0:42 utc | 320

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 19:44 utc | 70
Thank you, Tom.

Posted by: Suresh | Sep 22 2023 1:01 utc | 321

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 19:44 utc | 70
Thank you, Tom.

Posted by: Suresh | Sep 22 2023 1:01 utc | 322

Here is my take on the current Ukrainian Aid package and its impact on the actual war fighting in the Donbass.
– The Conservative Freedom Caucus members of House have by and large, but not unanimously have rejected the Biden $24 B further military aid package for the Ukrainian Fascist government. Speaker McCarthy needs their votes to pass some sort of Continuing Budget Resolution and send it on the Senate, where it will languish. Any such package containing the Uke aid grouping will not pass the House unless McCarthy recruits some Democrats to sign on to a package which includes the aid. That too is unlikely, because any McCarthy attempt to cross the House get needed Democrats would immediately result in a process in his own caucus to the remove the Speaker. So taking those factors into consideration the aid package for the AFU is DOA in the House as of today.
– In Senate both Mitch and Chuck have become acolytes of the Volo request, and they in fact hosted him today in a reception worthy of the Pope. There is a group of about ten Senators who are adamantly opposed to the Ukrainian Fascist Aid package, including Senator Rand Paul and Senator Josh Hawley. They can use procedural efforts to the delay the CR the aid is included. They can create quite a clatter on the floor of the Senate.
– The most likely scenario is that McCarthy keeps his caucus together and gets his own version of CR passed by removing the Uke aid package, and adding substantial funds to seal the border along the Texas line, while slashing other federal spending. By passing this type of CR, he can build cover for the House by sending his package to the Senate, and thus can state…..we did our job…..and let the Senate deal with it.
– More than likely the Senate and House will not agree on a CR and the October 1st deadline will pass and a temporary federal shutdown will occur. The Senate will have to yield, McCarthy will not commit political suicide.
– The total uncertainty of the passage of the Fascist aid package will have a devastating impact on the morale of the AFU………..very much like the cutoff of aid to ARVN forces in 1975. In that year, following the cutoff of aid to the ARVN forces, the military situation deteriorated rapidly resulting in a partial collapse of the fighting ability of the armed forces and the eventual end of the Republic of Vietnam. Expect the same outcome within one month for the AFU. The game is over.

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 22 2023 1:07 utc | 323

Here is my take on the current Ukrainian Aid package and its impact on the actual war fighting in the Donbass.
– The Conservative Freedom Caucus members of House have by and large, but not unanimously have rejected the Biden $24 B further military aid package for the Ukrainian Fascist government. Speaker McCarthy needs their votes to pass some sort of Continuing Budget Resolution and send it on the Senate, where it will languish. Any such package containing the Uke aid grouping will not pass the House unless McCarthy recruits some Democrats to sign on to a package which includes the aid. That too is unlikely, because any McCarthy attempt to cross the House get needed Democrats would immediately result in a process in his own caucus to the remove the Speaker. So taking those factors into consideration the aid package for the AFU is DOA in the House as of today.
– In Senate both Mitch and Chuck have become acolytes of the Volo request, and they in fact hosted him today in a reception worthy of the Pope. There is a group of about ten Senators who are adamantly opposed to the Ukrainian Fascist Aid package, including Senator Rand Paul and Senator Josh Hawley. They can use procedural efforts to the delay the CR the aid is included. They can create quite a clatter on the floor of the Senate.
– The most likely scenario is that McCarthy keeps his caucus together and gets his own version of CR passed by removing the Uke aid package, and adding substantial funds to seal the border along the Texas line, while slashing other federal spending. By passing this type of CR, he can build cover for the House by sending his package to the Senate, and thus can state…..we did our job…..and let the Senate deal with it.
– More than likely the Senate and House will not agree on a CR and the October 1st deadline will pass and a temporary federal shutdown will occur. The Senate will have to yield, McCarthy will not commit political suicide.
– The total uncertainty of the passage of the Fascist aid package will have a devastating impact on the morale of the AFU………..very much like the cutoff of aid to ARVN forces in 1975. In that year, following the cutoff of aid to the ARVN forces, the military situation deteriorated rapidly resulting in a partial collapse of the fighting ability of the armed forces and the eventual end of the Republic of Vietnam. Expect the same outcome within one month for the AFU. The game is over.

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 22 2023 1:07 utc | 324

@Ahenobarbus #56:
Bullshit.
Wow, what a great argument, you have totally convinced me!
Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 20:41 utc | 89
Self evident.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 1:10 utc | 325

@Ahenobarbus #56:
Bullshit.
Wow, what a great argument, you have totally convinced me!
Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 20:41 utc | 89
Self evident.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 1:10 utc | 326

“…how they [US & Biden admin] will cope with their defeat in their war on Russia”
The answer is obvious.
Step 1:
They’ll declare victory and/or peace with honor, go home, punish anyone that says it was a loss, then blame the loss on whatever domestic group is at the top of the hate list. Remember the Pulse night club shooting? A gay arab muslim shot a bunch of atheist lefty homos, and the media all blamed White Christian right wing gun owners…
Step 2:
Pivot to China.
“The American intelligence official… has respect for Putin’s intellect but contempt for his decision to go to war with Ukraine…”
The intelligence official isn’t very intelligent if he doesn’t know that Putin had very good reason for invading Ukraine.

Posted by: Zorost | Sep 22 2023 1:13 utc | 327

“…how they [US & Biden admin] will cope with their defeat in their war on Russia”
The answer is obvious.
Step 1:
They’ll declare victory and/or peace with honor, go home, punish anyone that says it was a loss, then blame the loss on whatever domestic group is at the top of the hate list. Remember the Pulse night club shooting? A gay arab muslim shot a bunch of atheist lefty homos, and the media all blamed White Christian right wing gun owners…
Step 2:
Pivot to China.
“The American intelligence official… has respect for Putin’s intellect but contempt for his decision to go to war with Ukraine…”
The intelligence official isn’t very intelligent if he doesn’t know that Putin had very good reason for invading Ukraine.

Posted by: Zorost | Sep 22 2023 1:13 utc | 328

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 21 2023 19:18 utc | 57
My crystal ball just lit up- and it gives the idea different from yours, Trubind. It says that the rump Ukraine will be taken over by Ukrainians who will sweep away the current regime, which will flee to the West (Gr.Britain, USA, Israel just as an example) and establish a “Government in Exile”, funded by the West, and the Ukraine with capital in Kiev, will declare neutrality.
Russia will not need to go all the way to Polish border, so that this ‘defence of Poland” will not be played as a victory over Russia.
Germany is the second – biggest loser.

Posted by: fanto | Sep 22 2023 1:23 utc | 329

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 21 2023 19:18 utc | 57
My crystal ball just lit up- and it gives the idea different from yours, Trubind. It says that the rump Ukraine will be taken over by Ukrainians who will sweep away the current regime, which will flee to the West (Gr.Britain, USA, Israel just as an example) and establish a “Government in Exile”, funded by the West, and the Ukraine with capital in Kiev, will declare neutrality.
Russia will not need to go all the way to Polish border, so that this ‘defence of Poland” will not be played as a victory over Russia.
Germany is the second – biggest loser.

Posted by: fanto | Sep 22 2023 1:23 utc | 330

The answer lies in our hands, regardless of whether we are Americans or otherwise inclined. Toppling this system begins at the individual level and leads directly to community involvement: we simply have to start a movement from the bottom upwards.
@ bevin #22

I hold the same views. Most politicians are useless to us in the current context; they work for a careed. Creating working groups of open minded people is an efficient response to the monopoly of the MSM’s over the public space.
Now, to answer B’s question, I understand that Herst znd some at the CIA see the performnce of the Ukrainian army as a defeat because the zero-sum idea is very deeply seated in Western culture. I am not sure Putin sees it in the same way. Asia is a different civilization than the West, if we put aside the fifth columnists who are devoted to Washington. As far as I can tell, having lived a few months in China, the people of Asia value cooperation over competition. Why am I telling this is because Putin does not look for Ukraine to loose face and to be defeated; he is looking for a path where both countries go forward.
Of course I don’t know what Putin thinks but I extrapolate from what he and Lavrov have said during the last few years.
When the people of Ukraine make it clear to Zelensky and the Right Sector and C17 that they don’t need them the conflict will be over, No winner, no loser except for the West who missed an opportunity to do business with good and reliable partners in Russia and Ukraine.
Politicians should travel a bit, out of the tourist trails, and learn of other cultures before holding foreign affairs offices.

Posted by: Richard L | Sep 22 2023 1:23 utc | 331

The answer lies in our hands, regardless of whether we are Americans or otherwise inclined. Toppling this system begins at the individual level and leads directly to community involvement: we simply have to start a movement from the bottom upwards.
@ bevin #22

I hold the same views. Most politicians are useless to us in the current context; they work for a careed. Creating working groups of open minded people is an efficient response to the monopoly of the MSM’s over the public space.
Now, to answer B’s question, I understand that Herst znd some at the CIA see the performnce of the Ukrainian army as a defeat because the zero-sum idea is very deeply seated in Western culture. I am not sure Putin sees it in the same way. Asia is a different civilization than the West, if we put aside the fifth columnists who are devoted to Washington. As far as I can tell, having lived a few months in China, the people of Asia value cooperation over competition. Why am I telling this is because Putin does not look for Ukraine to loose face and to be defeated; he is looking for a path where both countries go forward.
Of course I don’t know what Putin thinks but I extrapolate from what he and Lavrov have said during the last few years.
When the people of Ukraine make it clear to Zelensky and the Right Sector and C17 that they don’t need them the conflict will be over, No winner, no loser except for the West who missed an opportunity to do business with good and reliable partners in Russia and Ukraine.
Politicians should travel a bit, out of the tourist trails, and learn of other cultures before holding foreign affairs offices.

Posted by: Richard L | Sep 22 2023 1:23 utc | 332

What would the nazi party do?
I see them coping by increasing racial tensions
This subdues the growing hate towards elites by:
-Importing millions of immigrants before elections
-stage protesters, provocateurs, and lockdown the cities cause of violence, shootings, and guns.
-all violence attributed to conservatives
-replace Santa with baby black jesus
-Hide the bankruptcy recession depression.
-give immigrants free luxury hotels and flaunt it
-displace citizens inexchange for golden immigrant subsidies
-businesses fire citizens inexchange for immigrant job subsidies gold
-increase welfare food stamps for millions more, doubling food prices again
-Mailin ballots required.
-No debates needed.
-Second term sealed.
-creation of medieval feudal system
Easy

Posted by: Harry Moore jr | Sep 22 2023 1:26 utc | 333

What would the nazi party do?
I see them coping by increasing racial tensions
This subdues the growing hate towards elites by:
-Importing millions of immigrants before elections
-stage protesters, provocateurs, and lockdown the cities cause of violence, shootings, and guns.
-all violence attributed to conservatives
-replace Santa with baby black jesus
-Hide the bankruptcy recession depression.
-give immigrants free luxury hotels and flaunt it
-displace citizens inexchange for golden immigrant subsidies
-businesses fire citizens inexchange for immigrant job subsidies gold
-increase welfare food stamps for millions more, doubling food prices again
-Mailin ballots required.
-No debates needed.
-Second term sealed.
-creation of medieval feudal system
Easy

Posted by: Harry Moore jr | Sep 22 2023 1:26 utc | 334

The War Party will keep The Ukrainian Civil War on simmer until….those sanctions finally kick in (sic)
In other words – Hot war through 2024 and into 2025

Posted by: Exile | Sep 22 2023 1:31 utc | 335

The War Party will keep The Ukrainian Civil War on simmer until….those sanctions finally kick in (sic)
In other words – Hot war through 2024 and into 2025

Posted by: Exile | Sep 22 2023 1:31 utc | 336

@ Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143 with the rant against my country, America.
The condemnation is well deserved.
I keep telling myself and others that I love my country but despise my current government. I continue to believe that an international cult of inherited rich folk like Pope Frank, King Chuck and unknown others should be the focus of our collective ire but they are very good at hiding behind the curtain of respectability they have created and maintain.
I have my I Support Public Banking sign in my front yard and am speaking to as many folks as I can about the issue in our current world. I don’t see Americans as inherently bad but we have let our government be taken over and run by the money mafia for global power, control and profit.
It pains me to think it will take this long for empire to die but one scenario is that since the Blue team is losing in Russia, the Red team will be (s)elected in the coming race and then go on to fail miserably at “fighting” China. If it stretches out this long then folks should be more sure that both the Blue and Red teams are the problem, not the solution.
I am hopeful for empire failure in the next 6 months or less before the US election so the crash becomes the meme around which candidate’s BS are measured.
It will unfortunately take a while to purge the God Of Mammon cult players from the governments of Western nations but they should become obvious whores to all by then.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 1:33 utc | 337

@ Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143 with the rant against my country, America.
The condemnation is well deserved.
I keep telling myself and others that I love my country but despise my current government. I continue to believe that an international cult of inherited rich folk like Pope Frank, King Chuck and unknown others should be the focus of our collective ire but they are very good at hiding behind the curtain of respectability they have created and maintain.
I have my I Support Public Banking sign in my front yard and am speaking to as many folks as I can about the issue in our current world. I don’t see Americans as inherently bad but we have let our government be taken over and run by the money mafia for global power, control and profit.
It pains me to think it will take this long for empire to die but one scenario is that since the Blue team is losing in Russia, the Red team will be (s)elected in the coming race and then go on to fail miserably at “fighting” China. If it stretches out this long then folks should be more sure that both the Blue and Red teams are the problem, not the solution.
I am hopeful for empire failure in the next 6 months or less before the US election so the crash becomes the meme around which candidate’s BS are measured.
It will unfortunately take a while to purge the God Of Mammon cult players from the governments of Western nations but they should become obvious whores to all by then.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 1:33 utc | 338

Probably by escalating his war on American conservatives.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Sep 22 2023 1:37 utc | 339

Probably by escalating his war on American conservatives.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Sep 22 2023 1:37 utc | 340

Ukraine is desperate as winter approaches. Seems they still have their SU24 jets and Mi24 helis.
Russian new Kh-32 is promising. Many Ukie weapons warehouses were busted in the past few days.
Desperate attacks by drowning Ukraine will increase in coming weeks.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 22 2023 1:47 utc | 341

Ukraine is desperate as winter approaches. Seems they still have their SU24 jets and Mi24 helis.
Russian new Kh-32 is promising. Many Ukie weapons warehouses were busted in the past few days.
Desperate attacks by drowning Ukraine will increase in coming weeks.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 22 2023 1:47 utc | 342

Now up in Substrack country, some items have been covered here in detail, but there are always little surprises.
Zelensky’s Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad D.C. Snubfest
SIMPLICIUS THE THINKER
SEP 22
It includes this little gem:
The Economist believes everything needs to be reconfigured for a long war, with Europe stepping up production and Ukraine reimagining their economy for full war production. Peace is not an option, according to the Lynn Forester de Rothschild-owned Economist.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 22 2023 2:01 utc | 343

Now up in Substrack country, some items have been covered here in detail, but there are always little surprises.
Zelensky’s Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad D.C. Snubfest
SIMPLICIUS THE THINKER
SEP 22
It includes this little gem:
The Economist believes everything needs to be reconfigured for a long war, with Europe stepping up production and Ukraine reimagining their economy for full war production. Peace is not an option, according to the Lynn Forester de Rothschild-owned Economist.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 22 2023 2:01 utc | 344

re re Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 0:37 utc | 159 who said “Where are these “gazillion” weapons going to be manufactured??” Well yes & no, as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and Vietnam are viable alternatives. Germany has a surfeit of well trained professionals experienced in heavy manufacturing who can do whatever is required, including fast turnarounds and while raw materials will eventually become an issue for amerika both Australia and a few still ‘tame’ (as far as the mic reckons) parts of Africa are viable sources for those. So this could be effected without disturbing or having to feed the too impoverished to resist amerikan citizens. amerika the empire is on the road to downfall but still has enough gas in its tanks to attempt this.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 2:22 utc | 345

re re Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 0:37 utc | 159 who said “Where are these “gazillion” weapons going to be manufactured??” Well yes & no, as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and Vietnam are viable alternatives. Germany has a surfeit of well trained professionals experienced in heavy manufacturing who can do whatever is required, including fast turnarounds and while raw materials will eventually become an issue for amerika both Australia and a few still ‘tame’ (as far as the mic reckons) parts of Africa are viable sources for those. So this could be effected without disturbing or having to feed the too impoverished to resist amerikan citizens. amerika the empire is on the road to downfall but still has enough gas in its tanks to attempt this.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 2:22 utc | 346

psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 1:33 utc | 171
Thanks cobber, I appreciate your ability to strip the non-essential histrionics from these discussions.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 2:24 utc | 347

psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 1:33 utc | 171
Thanks cobber, I appreciate your ability to strip the non-essential histrionics from these discussions.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 2:24 utc | 348

There are always two sides to an agreement, the US when it has had enough needs to paint it as some kind of victory or Ukraine’s fault. The Russians would probably be happy with the territory they have but face the problem that NATO are making noises about later bringing Ukraine in and re-arming it, will they tolerate a likely Ukraine War II or decide to go for a permanent settlement now and break Ukraine?
No doubt they have their intel sources advising how far they can go before some nutter neocon pushes the big red button, but of course we observers have no knowledge about that. The two sides seem to be very far apart in a compromise, however a military victory with a Ukrainian surrender removes NATO from the negotiation table. Is this even achievable or are other strategies in play, time will tell.

Posted by: Organic | Sep 22 2023 2:32 utc | 349

There are always two sides to an agreement, the US when it has had enough needs to paint it as some kind of victory or Ukraine’s fault. The Russians would probably be happy with the territory they have but face the problem that NATO are making noises about later bringing Ukraine in and re-arming it, will they tolerate a likely Ukraine War II or decide to go for a permanent settlement now and break Ukraine?
No doubt they have their intel sources advising how far they can go before some nutter neocon pushes the big red button, but of course we observers have no knowledge about that. The two sides seem to be very far apart in a compromise, however a military victory with a Ukrainian surrender removes NATO from the negotiation table. Is this even achievable or are other strategies in play, time will tell.

Posted by: Organic | Sep 22 2023 2:32 utc | 350

How long did it take to memory hole Afghanistan? How many Amerikastanis, if you ask them about Afghanistan today, will just blink stupidly?
As the Consortium piece says, Amerikastanis actively cultivate lack of knowledge. They hig their ignorance to themselves like a precious resource. Expecting them to learn lessons is futile.
The only, and temporary, effect will be – if Ukranazistan spectacularly implodes just before the November 2024 Amerikastani selections – to make it harder for Bidet to credibly “win”, despite whatever shenanigans his party gets up to. That is all.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 22 2023 2:49 utc | 351

How long did it take to memory hole Afghanistan? How many Amerikastanis, if you ask them about Afghanistan today, will just blink stupidly?
As the Consortium piece says, Amerikastanis actively cultivate lack of knowledge. They hig their ignorance to themselves like a precious resource. Expecting them to learn lessons is futile.
The only, and temporary, effect will be – if Ukranazistan spectacularly implodes just before the November 2024 Amerikastani selections – to make it harder for Bidet to credibly “win”, despite whatever shenanigans his party gets up to. That is all.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 22 2023 2:49 utc | 352

@Organic 177
Whether Putin likes it or not, legally Russia cannot settle for the territory it now has. Large parts of Kherson, Zaporozhye, Lugansk and Donetsk are still under Ukranazistani occupation, and are sovereign Russian territory by the will of the people as expressed by referendum. Whether Putin likes it or not, whether his oligarch cronies like it or not, at the very least he is legally obliged to liberate those territories. I’m not at this point making predictions about Sumy, Kharkov or Odessa, but I’m fairly sure that, if put to referendum, the majority of those regions would also vote for Russia. But that’s a discussion for when the time comes. For now, even if Puton ignores the demands by Pushilin etc for a buffer zone, he has to liberate the complete territory of the four oblasts that voted for Russia last September. He does not have a choice.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 22 2023 2:55 utc | 353

@Organic 177
Whether Putin likes it or not, legally Russia cannot settle for the territory it now has. Large parts of Kherson, Zaporozhye, Lugansk and Donetsk are still under Ukranazistani occupation, and are sovereign Russian territory by the will of the people as expressed by referendum. Whether Putin likes it or not, whether his oligarch cronies like it or not, at the very least he is legally obliged to liberate those territories. I’m not at this point making predictions about Sumy, Kharkov or Odessa, but I’m fairly sure that, if put to referendum, the majority of those regions would also vote for Russia. But that’s a discussion for when the time comes. For now, even if Puton ignores the demands by Pushilin etc for a buffer zone, he has to liberate the complete territory of the four oblasts that voted for Russia last September. He does not have a choice.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 22 2023 2:55 utc | 354

How will the Biden administration cope?
Most likely, the Kübler-Ross 5 stages of grief.
1) denial (currently ending)
2) anger (at Putin apologists and ‘pro Russian’ talking points)
3) bargaining (ceasefire to rearm/shift to China)
4) depression (in the future)
5) acceptance (way in the future)
And the blue team, ‘I support the current thing,’ folks will be going through the same thing on a personal level.

Posted by: team10tim | Sep 22 2023 2:55 utc | 355

How will the Biden administration cope?
Most likely, the Kübler-Ross 5 stages of grief.
1) denial (currently ending)
2) anger (at Putin apologists and ‘pro Russian’ talking points)
3) bargaining (ceasefire to rearm/shift to China)
4) depression (in the future)
5) acceptance (way in the future)
And the blue team, ‘I support the current thing,’ folks will be going through the same thing on a personal level.

Posted by: team10tim | Sep 22 2023 2:55 utc | 356

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:32 utc | 108
Of course I’m not Karloff. Your question to him is open ended. What if he replied he’s not considering living in China?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2023 3:01 utc | 357

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:32 utc | 108
Of course I’m not Karloff. Your question to him is open ended. What if he replied he’s not considering living in China?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2023 3:01 utc | 358

Very unlikely Bidet will contest the next election. Too old and frail already.
Don’t forget elections are also due in Ukranazistan next March. They can’t hold elections in Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk regions, only Fragments of Ukraine under Control of Kyiv.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 22 2023 3:01 utc | 359

Very unlikely Bidet will contest the next election. Too old and frail already.
Don’t forget elections are also due in Ukranazistan next March. They can’t hold elections in Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk regions, only Fragments of Ukraine under Control of Kyiv.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 22 2023 3:01 utc | 360

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 0:06 utc | 144
############
Word of advice my friend, don’t take rhetoric so literally and seriously. I don’t when I post it.
I am going to continue calling America the Empire of Lies, perhaps even long after the Empire falls.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 22 2023 3:02 utc | 361

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 0:06 utc | 144
############
Word of advice my friend, don’t take rhetoric so literally and seriously. I don’t when I post it.
I am going to continue calling America the Empire of Lies, perhaps even long after the Empire falls.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 22 2023 3:02 utc | 362

@ Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 22 2023 2:49 utc | 178
And yet there are crucial differences that force 404 deeper into the American consciousness. 404 is closer and its people regarded as white. Its leader is portrayed as telegenic and heroic — and as a Jew he even has victim status. Nor were Afghanis a terribly memorable foe, as opposed to Russians, who have been Orcs for about a century. Heck, the Afghanis didn’t even have Osama, whereas the Rooskies have Pootin, and the American comic-book view of the world demands an easily identifiable villain. Americans has 20 years to tire of Afghanistan, but there might be some mileage left to The 404 Show, even if the script writers are still on strike.
The most compelling factor militating against a long-term commitment to 404 is cost: the advanced state of American economic collapse has become increasingly difficult to ignore or paper over.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 3:02 utc | 363

@ Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 22 2023 2:49 utc | 178
And yet there are crucial differences that force 404 deeper into the American consciousness. 404 is closer and its people regarded as white. Its leader is portrayed as telegenic and heroic — and as a Jew he even has victim status. Nor were Afghanis a terribly memorable foe, as opposed to Russians, who have been Orcs for about a century. Heck, the Afghanis didn’t even have Osama, whereas the Rooskies have Pootin, and the American comic-book view of the world demands an easily identifiable villain. Americans has 20 years to tire of Afghanistan, but there might be some mileage left to The 404 Show, even if the script writers are still on strike.
The most compelling factor militating against a long-term commitment to 404 is cost: the advanced state of American economic collapse has become increasingly difficult to ignore or paper over.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 22 2023 3:02 utc | 364

@Biswapriya
For all political, governance and economic purposes Ukraine does not exist anymore.
The correct way to identify what’s left under Zel’s control is – Fragments of Ukraine under Control of Kyiv. The acronym is unintended and unfortunate as the territory it refers to.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 22 2023 3:06 utc | 365

@Biswapriya
For all political, governance and economic purposes Ukraine does not exist anymore.
The correct way to identify what’s left under Zel’s control is – Fragments of Ukraine under Control of Kyiv. The acronym is unintended and unfortunate as the territory it refers to.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 22 2023 3:06 utc | 366

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:25 utc | 155
US position has always been that China is a paper dragon, all sound no bite, because at heart China is truly the world’s shopkeeper, not policeman.
Pelosi proved that resoundingly to the whole world when China barked and yapped and did nothing in the end.
If China tries a blockade around DieOne I promise you US and their Yipponese and Kimchi poodles will force it. Then China either do something or do nothing and DieOne declares independence immediately.
The slo-mo Putin war is NOT the right shoe for China to wear.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2023 3:10 utc | 367

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:25 utc | 155
US position has always been that China is a paper dragon, all sound no bite, because at heart China is truly the world’s shopkeeper, not policeman.
Pelosi proved that resoundingly to the whole world when China barked and yapped and did nothing in the end.
If China tries a blockade around DieOne I promise you US and their Yipponese and Kimchi poodles will force it. Then China either do something or do nothing and DieOne declares independence immediately.
The slo-mo Putin war is NOT the right shoe for China to wear.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2023 3:10 utc | 368

RE: Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 2:22 utc | 175
No, America doesn’t have gas in its tank for the 10-15 years this would take. According to America, Taiwan, So Korea & Japan should be in a war with China, Vietnam is polite to US, but sides with China & has actual trade & $ with them now, Germany has no cheap energy source anymore which is why their industry is leaving and their currently in recession.
Do you think Russia & China are actually going to just wait until US builds capacity to actually become a peer threat again?
It would benefit Americans to start considering using the strengths they have to do as Russia did when they collapsed, and that’s start making some friends, get a leader with integrity, pay down debt, get rid of corruption , make deals and compromise.
All these fantasies of industrial capacity warfare, ideologies & pie in the sky revamping of the old post WW2 American power is unhelpful. And it’s certainly unwise to use whatever is left “in the tank” on more failed warfare endeavors.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 3:17 utc | 369

RE: Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 2:22 utc | 175
No, America doesn’t have gas in its tank for the 10-15 years this would take. According to America, Taiwan, So Korea & Japan should be in a war with China, Vietnam is polite to US, but sides with China & has actual trade & $ with them now, Germany has no cheap energy source anymore which is why their industry is leaving and their currently in recession.
Do you think Russia & China are actually going to just wait until US builds capacity to actually become a peer threat again?
It would benefit Americans to start considering using the strengths they have to do as Russia did when they collapsed, and that’s start making some friends, get a leader with integrity, pay down debt, get rid of corruption , make deals and compromise.
All these fantasies of industrial capacity warfare, ideologies & pie in the sky revamping of the old post WW2 American power is unhelpful. And it’s certainly unwise to use whatever is left “in the tank” on more failed warfare endeavors.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 3:17 utc | 370

@ Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 3:17 utc | 187 about empire’s ability to do more proxy wars to enforce control…thanks
I agree that the narrative that is expected to conform to Western realities is not the one we are going to experience. I keep thinking that the crash is coming soon and will impact the 2024 US (s)election process but not really be uprooted until subsequent ones. I would like to see a move to people centered government happen quickly but it really is a culture that has been brainwashed out of most Western citizens and replaced by consumerism so it may take generations, sadly.
If the multipolar world really does become dominant, I expect the example of their governance to effect the rebuilding of popular governance in nations of the current West….and that may speed things up as well as permanent neutering of the military bullies….which will also take generations to deprecate/redirect the aggression.
I just want to live long enough (maybe already have), to know that society is going to have the ability to have a choice in forms of social organization other than the God Of Mammon curtained, top down, inherited cult of barbaric, patriarchal, anti-humanistic creatures.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 3:41 utc | 371

@ Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 3:17 utc | 187 about empire’s ability to do more proxy wars to enforce control…thanks
I agree that the narrative that is expected to conform to Western realities is not the one we are going to experience. I keep thinking that the crash is coming soon and will impact the 2024 US (s)election process but not really be uprooted until subsequent ones. I would like to see a move to people centered government happen quickly but it really is a culture that has been brainwashed out of most Western citizens and replaced by consumerism so it may take generations, sadly.
If the multipolar world really does become dominant, I expect the example of their governance to effect the rebuilding of popular governance in nations of the current West….and that may speed things up as well as permanent neutering of the military bullies….which will also take generations to deprecate/redirect the aggression.
I just want to live long enough (maybe already have), to know that society is going to have the ability to have a choice in forms of social organization other than the God Of Mammon curtained, top down, inherited cult of barbaric, patriarchal, anti-humanistic creatures.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 3:41 utc | 372

RE: Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2023 3:10 utc | 186
I wouldn’t count on DieOne declaring “independence” too soon as they’ve had a front row seat for 18 months of what “stand by DieOne to the end” ally actually means.
And N Korea is well equipped now (not to mention the 1.2 standing military army) to single handily take on the other 2 yapping poodles you mentioned.
Nope, SloMo was good call.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 3:42 utc | 373

RE: Posted by: Surferket | Sep 22 2023 3:10 utc | 186
I wouldn’t count on DieOne declaring “independence” too soon as they’ve had a front row seat for 18 months of what “stand by DieOne to the end” ally actually means.
And N Korea is well equipped now (not to mention the 1.2 standing military army) to single handily take on the other 2 yapping poodles you mentioned.
Nope, SloMo was good call.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 3:42 utc | 374

Posted by: Redwhiteorange | Sep 22 2023 0:12 utc | 146
I can’t find the news by searching “refugees Federally Protection” and it seems not like what Biden would do because he had been very tough on immigration.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 22 2023 3:42 utc | 375

Posted by: Redwhiteorange | Sep 22 2023 0:12 utc | 146
I can’t find the news by searching “refugees Federally Protection” and it seems not like what Biden would do because he had been very tough on immigration.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 22 2023 3:42 utc | 376

It’s not gonna take anything like 15 years to develop any system or counter shown to be effective against Russia or China. This would be a hail mary developed by taking a leaf out of the Russian book of keep it simple. That is if they even manage to uncover a superior or counter weapon.
One of the first decisions that amerika has to make if their data suggests a way forward is to ensure that the weapon system whatever it may be, is able to be operated by troops without intensive technical training.
That is what the MIC is searching for as they know full well that their current rort of manufacturing weapons covered with bells and whistles is that as much as it provides many ways to rip tax revenue that is what the military is likely to insist upon as they have ‘been there, done that’ too many times & found it unsuccessful.
It won’t matter too much to the mic as the reduced unit cost of this new wonder weapon will be compensated for by an order of magnitude increase in the number of units manufactured. Take one of their most likely (they imagine) options, flocks of thousands of drones controlled by AI that is impervious to current Russian AD. Sure developing the AI system may take some time but nothing like 10-15 years. 1-2 years is more likely given the tech is already available, changes to software is going to be developed using the Ukraine laboratory and the hardware can be made in any of the nations I listed. Right now the amerikans are testing out different methods of controlling ukie drones as they are researching what is more successful against Russia’s electronic warfare defenses. They know China is doing the same with Russia.
But building vast murders of drones is only one of the options they are considering, they will also be developing alternatives to Musk’s starlink command & control communications systems and whatever other means of killing maximum numbers of Russians & Chinese that they can dream up.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 3:49 utc | 377

It’s not gonna take anything like 15 years to develop any system or counter shown to be effective against Russia or China. This would be a hail mary developed by taking a leaf out of the Russian book of keep it simple. That is if they even manage to uncover a superior or counter weapon.
One of the first decisions that amerika has to make if their data suggests a way forward is to ensure that the weapon system whatever it may be, is able to be operated by troops without intensive technical training.
That is what the MIC is searching for as they know full well that their current rort of manufacturing weapons covered with bells and whistles is that as much as it provides many ways to rip tax revenue that is what the military is likely to insist upon as they have ‘been there, done that’ too many times & found it unsuccessful.
It won’t matter too much to the mic as the reduced unit cost of this new wonder weapon will be compensated for by an order of magnitude increase in the number of units manufactured. Take one of their most likely (they imagine) options, flocks of thousands of drones controlled by AI that is impervious to current Russian AD. Sure developing the AI system may take some time but nothing like 10-15 years. 1-2 years is more likely given the tech is already available, changes to software is going to be developed using the Ukraine laboratory and the hardware can be made in any of the nations I listed. Right now the amerikans are testing out different methods of controlling ukie drones as they are researching what is more successful against Russia’s electronic warfare defenses. They know China is doing the same with Russia.
But building vast murders of drones is only one of the options they are considering, they will also be developing alternatives to Musk’s starlink command & control communications systems and whatever other means of killing maximum numbers of Russians & Chinese that they can dream up.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 3:49 utc | 378

Re: Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 3:41 utc | 188
I agree. The US is at a strange inflection point. And the clock is ticking. I think what you mentioned about smaller governances made me think a lot about “tribes”. In the best of sense I mean.
Well, this massive centralized government isn’t working any better than poor tribalism did. In a way, the multipolar world is just returning to what “was”. Nation States retaining their own sovereignty & borders, where “globalism” is relegated to trade, and there are certain “global” organizations that exist for facilitating trade, disputes & aide.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 4:10 utc | 379

Re: Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 3:41 utc | 188
I agree. The US is at a strange inflection point. And the clock is ticking. I think what you mentioned about smaller governances made me think a lot about “tribes”. In the best of sense I mean.
Well, this massive centralized government isn’t working any better than poor tribalism did. In a way, the multipolar world is just returning to what “was”. Nation States retaining their own sovereignty & borders, where “globalism” is relegated to trade, and there are certain “global” organizations that exist for facilitating trade, disputes & aide.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 4:10 utc | 380

@ Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143
thanks debs.. much appreciate the overview and agree with you..

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2023 4:13 utc | 381

@ Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 143
thanks debs.. much appreciate the overview and agree with you..

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2023 4:13 utc | 382

Posted by: Lex | Sep 21 2023 23:13 utc | 131
Biden did not become president, Biden was installed as president.

Posted by: AI | Sep 22 2023 4:14 utc | 383

Posted by: Lex | Sep 21 2023 23:13 utc | 131
Biden did not become president, Biden was installed as president.

Posted by: AI | Sep 22 2023 4:14 utc | 384

@ Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 3:49 utc | 191 who wrote

….and whatever other means of killing maximum numbers of Russians & Chinese that they can dream up.

I keep coming back to thinking that bio-chemical will tried more as the goto approach when stymied by MAD as they are. I think they justify their perfidy as “needed” human population reduction….we are dealing with very hurt humans with very dis-regulated neural networks, IMO.
What is going on in all those biolabs in other countries under the thumb of the West? Can the sickos kill enough humans to force nations to remain deferential to some degree…..keep private finance alive/in control?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 4:22 utc | 385

@ Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 3:49 utc | 191 who wrote

….and whatever other means of killing maximum numbers of Russians & Chinese that they can dream up.

I keep coming back to thinking that bio-chemical will tried more as the goto approach when stymied by MAD as they are. I think they justify their perfidy as “needed” human population reduction….we are dealing with very hurt humans with very dis-regulated neural networks, IMO.
What is going on in all those biolabs in other countries under the thumb of the West? Can the sickos kill enough humans to force nations to remain deferential to some degree…..keep private finance alive/in control?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 4:22 utc | 386

Armenia’s pro-Western politicians have handed over part of the country to Azerbaijan while blaming the Russians.
Politicians being politicians

Posted by: Mathaus | Sep 22 2023 4:23 utc | 387

Armenia’s pro-Western politicians have handed over part of the country to Azerbaijan while blaming the Russians.
Politicians being politicians

Posted by: Mathaus | Sep 22 2023 4:23 utc | 388

RE: Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 3:49 utc | 191
Again, all these warfare fantasies.
The US is the only real enemy the US has.
The US is corrupt to the core, and the worm-rot has infested and is eating up its host from the inside out.
The US is an Empire falling from its own weight.
It’s lost its way. And fantasizing about war factories and “Space Force” endeavors is futile.
Or put another way,
What Nation has attacked us? What Nation has threatened to attack us (seriously, not rhetorically)?
What Nations do “Exercises” in our Seas and are a constant threat to us?
What Border Nations are armed to the teeth and a threat to us?
What Nation has bi-weekly flyovers of spy missions and bomber missions ?
What Nations have Military bases on every island and adjoining or nearby nations to us?
Of course… NONE…
It’s fantasy. It’s paranoid schizophrenic fantasies.
But fortunately we will be cured of it someday.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 4:44 utc | 389

RE: Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 3:49 utc | 191
Again, all these warfare fantasies.
The US is the only real enemy the US has.
The US is corrupt to the core, and the worm-rot has infested and is eating up its host from the inside out.
The US is an Empire falling from its own weight.
It’s lost its way. And fantasizing about war factories and “Space Force” endeavors is futile.
Or put another way,
What Nation has attacked us? What Nation has threatened to attack us (seriously, not rhetorically)?
What Nations do “Exercises” in our Seas and are a constant threat to us?
What Border Nations are armed to the teeth and a threat to us?
What Nation has bi-weekly flyovers of spy missions and bomber missions ?
What Nations have Military bases on every island and adjoining or nearby nations to us?
Of course… NONE…
It’s fantasy. It’s paranoid schizophrenic fantasies.
But fortunately we will be cured of it someday.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 22 2023 4:44 utc | 390

While this piece will touch on the war in Ukraine it is more about the U.S., and the Biden administration, and how they will cope with their defeat in their war on Russia.
Some thoughts that go against the grain of most posters and mostly listed in prioritization of confidence:
1. Whatever happens and whatever the rhetoric of a “multipolar world”, the US will continue to remain dominant–let’s define this in terms of no single (or even small group of countries) will ever be able to compel the US to do something that it does not want to do–at least not over the next two decades. That is perhaps not as powerful as being able to simply get its way under any circumstances, but most countries would love to be in this scenario
2. The US will have to spend most of its time and political capital trying to explain to all other “interests” (e.g. Taiwan, Middle East, and especially Europe) that even if it backed down in Ukraine, this was a one-off and the rest of the world can truly continue to depend on the US. Unless the country is truly run by an absolute retard (e.g. Canada, Germany, Australia, UK), the US will be ignored, likely igniting many regional arms races. I think this is going to be a very big deal that is unfortunately not discussed enough.
3. The US population will be increasingly isolationist and eschew foreign wars for a long time. The US will become more isolationist, although it may increasingly have to “defend” its interests in North and South America (I imagine that the Russians and Chinese will be increasing their influence there).
4. The US will, in fact, conduct a serious and thorough assessment of what went wrong and make some major reforms to its intelligence, military, and foreign policy institutions. This will take over a decade and be painful, but the US will come out ahead. Expect a resurgence of the Powell Doctrine under some form
5. The US will finally dump the neocons and neoliberals and replace them with a new set of morons and demagogues.
6. The US will finally force the rest of the world to stop using the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency. This will gut the State Department and screw the banks and domestic offshoring companies, but will create a huge boom in the rest of the US economy, albeit at the expense of absolutely enormous inflation. Unemployment rate will drop to all time lows
So a mixed bag, but generally the first couple of years will simply be one of abject embarrasment and humiliation

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Sep 22 2023 5:02 utc | 391

While this piece will touch on the war in Ukraine it is more about the U.S., and the Biden administration, and how they will cope with their defeat in their war on Russia.
Some thoughts that go against the grain of most posters and mostly listed in prioritization of confidence:
1. Whatever happens and whatever the rhetoric of a “multipolar world”, the US will continue to remain dominant–let’s define this in terms of no single (or even small group of countries) will ever be able to compel the US to do something that it does not want to do–at least not over the next two decades. That is perhaps not as powerful as being able to simply get its way under any circumstances, but most countries would love to be in this scenario
2. The US will have to spend most of its time and political capital trying to explain to all other “interests” (e.g. Taiwan, Middle East, and especially Europe) that even if it backed down in Ukraine, this was a one-off and the rest of the world can truly continue to depend on the US. Unless the country is truly run by an absolute retard (e.g. Canada, Germany, Australia, UK), the US will be ignored, likely igniting many regional arms races. I think this is going to be a very big deal that is unfortunately not discussed enough.
3. The US population will be increasingly isolationist and eschew foreign wars for a long time. The US will become more isolationist, although it may increasingly have to “defend” its interests in North and South America (I imagine that the Russians and Chinese will be increasing their influence there).
4. The US will, in fact, conduct a serious and thorough assessment of what went wrong and make some major reforms to its intelligence, military, and foreign policy institutions. This will take over a decade and be painful, but the US will come out ahead. Expect a resurgence of the Powell Doctrine under some form
5. The US will finally dump the neocons and neoliberals and replace them with a new set of morons and demagogues.
6. The US will finally force the rest of the world to stop using the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency. This will gut the State Department and screw the banks and domestic offshoring companies, but will create a huge boom in the rest of the US economy, albeit at the expense of absolutely enormous inflation. Unemployment rate will drop to all time lows
So a mixed bag, but generally the first couple of years will simply be one of abject embarrasment and humiliation

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Sep 22 2023 5:02 utc | 392

bubbles | Sep 21 2023 18:44 utc | 38

@bubbles just ended up on my shitlist, just as I expected, back when I extolled his/her posts when decrying whatshisname (already forgotten), who clearly was tag-teaming with “bubbles” (not so clearly at the time) in a coordinated info-attack on this site.
Gruff came in and clarified: “It’s a committee” of children.
Just sayin….

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 5:02 utc | 393

bubbles | Sep 21 2023 18:44 utc | 38

@bubbles just ended up on my shitlist, just as I expected, back when I extolled his/her posts when decrying whatshisname (already forgotten), who clearly was tag-teaming with “bubbles” (not so clearly at the time) in a coordinated info-attack on this site.
Gruff came in and clarified: “It’s a committee” of children.
Just sayin….

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 5:02 utc | 394

The Biden administration is being “led” by politically-affiliated women and a cynical drug-addled child together working behind the scenes to make the dementia-filled puppet of Joe Biden seem “presidential”.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 5:12 utc | 395

The Biden administration is being “led” by politically-affiliated women and a cynical drug-addled child together working behind the scenes to make the dementia-filled puppet of Joe Biden seem “presidential”.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Sep 22 2023 5:12 utc | 396

Posted by: Harry Moore jr | Sep 22 2023 1:26 utc | 169
You’re right about some of those RC tactics, but I’m not sure it’s going to be easy. Nothing is going to be easy for UD imperialism going forward.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 5:12 utc | 397

Posted by: Harry Moore jr | Sep 22 2023 1:26 utc | 169
You’re right about some of those RC tactics, but I’m not sure it’s going to be easy. Nothing is going to be easy for UD imperialism going forward.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 5:12 utc | 398

Most of the last 20 years I’ve been calling for the complete abolition of CIA. Is that what RFK Jr does? But a retired intelligence friend tells me that what I want to eliminate is the covert operations. The intelligence gathering is pretty good, and often better than what others produce which is often politically tilted. Well, the CIA hasn’t always been perfect in those regards. They can be bent, but often they do have a kind of independence, which is what is often needed, otherwise “we create the reality” takes over all thinking, especially needed now that neocon hallucinators control the white house.
If this is the truth, I’m glad to hear it confirmed by today’s story.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 22 2023 5:28 utc | 399

Most of the last 20 years I’ve been calling for the complete abolition of CIA. Is that what RFK Jr does? But a retired intelligence friend tells me that what I want to eliminate is the covert operations. The intelligence gathering is pretty good, and often better than what others produce which is often politically tilted. Well, the CIA hasn’t always been perfect in those regards. They can be bent, but often they do have a kind of independence, which is what is often needed, otherwise “we create the reality” takes over all thinking, especially needed now that neocon hallucinators control the white house.
If this is the truth, I’m glad to hear it confirmed by today’s story.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 22 2023 5:28 utc | 400