Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 21, 2023
How Will The Biden Administration Cope With Its Loss In Ukraine?

While this piece will touch on the war in Ukraine it is more about the U.S., and the Biden administration, and how they will cope with their  defeat in their war on Russia. Please keep that in mind when commentating.

Washington's moment of recognizing the defeat in Ukraine, and its consequences, has yet to arrive.

In his latest piece (archived) Seymour Hersh reports on the state of the war and of significant differences of opinion between the U.S. intelligence services:

There are significant elements in the American intelligence community, relying on field reports and technical intelligence, who believe that the demoralized Ukraine army has given up on the possibility of overcoming the heavily mined three-tier Russian defense lines and taking the war to Crimea and the four oblasts seized and annexed by Russia. The reality is that Volodymyr Zelensky’s battered army no longer has any chance of a victory.

The war continues, I have been told by an official with access to current intelligence, because Zelensky insists that it must. There is no discussion in his headquarters or in the Biden White House of a ceasefire and no interest in talks that could lead to an end to the slaughter. “It’s all lies,” the official said, speaking of the Ukrainian claims of incremental progress in the offensive that has suffered staggering losses, while gaining ground in a few scattered areas that the Ukrainian military measures in meters per week.

The American intelligence official I spoke with spent the early years of his career working against Soviet aggression and spying has respect for Putin’s intellect but contempt for his decision to go to war with Ukraine and to initiate the death and destruction that war brings. But, as he told me, “The war is over. Russia has won. There is no Ukrainian offensive anymore, but the White House and the American media have to keep the lie going.

“The truth is if the Ukrainian army is ordered to continue the offensive, the army would mutiny. The soldiers aren’t willing to die any more, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”

The differences between the current CIA and the more neoconned Defense Intelligence Agency extend to their view on China:

A byproduct of the Biden administration’s neocon hostility to Russia and China—exemplified by the remarks of Secretary of State Tony Blinken, who has repeatedly stated that he will not currently countenance a ceasefire in Ukraine—has been a significant split in the intelligence community. One casualty are the secret National Intelligence Estimates that have delineated the parameters of American foreign policy for decades. Some key offices in the CIA have refused, in many cases, to participate in the NIE process because of profound political disagreement with the administration’s aggressive foreign policy. One recent failure involved a planned NIE that dealt with the outcome of a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

I have reported for many weeks on the longstanding disagreement between the CIA and other elements of the intelligence community on the prognosis of the current war in the Ukraine. CIA analysts have consistently been far more skeptical than their counterparts at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) on the prospect for a Ukraine success. The American media has ignored the dispute, but the London-headquartered Economist, whose well-informed reporters do not get bylines, has not.

The DIA is still saying that the Ukrainian army has a chance, a small one though, to break through the Russian lines. The White House still seems to believe in that. The CIA knows that the Ukraine is done.

Alastair Crooke, in a talk (vid) with Judge Napolitano, says that the moment of truth will only arrive in November.

But what will happen when everyone recognizes and acknowledges, if silently, that the war on Russia has failed?

Michael Brenner argues that the US Can’t Deal With Defeat:

Ukraine, today, has suffered huge losses of even greater (proportional) magnitude [than the German Wehrmacht in the Battle of Kursk], without achieving any significant territorial gains, unable even to reach the first layer of the Surovikin Line. That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine. Hence, Moscow is poised to exploit its decisive advantage to the point where it can dictate terms to Kiev, Washington, Brussels et al.

The Biden administration has made no plans for such an eventuality, nor have its obedient European governments. Their divorce from reality will make this state of affairs all the more stunning — and galling. Bereft of ideas, they will flounder. How they will react is unknowable. We can say with certainty one thing: the collective West, and especially the U.S., will have suffered a grave defeat. Coping with that truth will become the main order of business.

Here is a menu of options for handling it:

Redefine what is meant by defeat, victory, failure, success, loss, gain. There is a new narrative that is scripted to stress these talking points: …

This narrative already has been given an airing in speeches by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Acting Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Its target audience is the American public; nobody outside the Collective West buys it, though — whether Washington has registered that fact of diplomatic life or not.

Retroactively Scale Back the Goals & Stakes

Cultivate Amnesia

Next: China

It is likely that the administration will use all four options to make the pain and memory of defeat go away. Declare victory over Russia  because Russia was stopped at the border with Poland. Then forget about all the details and consequences and move towards war on China.

That could end catastrophically.

The focal shift from Russia in Europe to China in Asia is less a mechanism for coping with defeat than the pathological reaction of a country that, feeling a gnawing sense of diminishing prowess, can manage to do nothing more than try one final fling at proving to itself that it still has the right stuff — since living without that exalted sense of self is intolerable.

The U.S. was fortunate, in the case of Vietnam, that the United States’ dominant position in the world outside of the Soviet Bloc and the PRC allowed it to maintain respect, status and influence.

Things have now changed, though. The U.S. relative strength in all domains is weaker, strong centrifugal forces around the globe are producing a dispersion of power, will and outlook among other states. The BRICs phenomenon is the concrete embodiment of that reality.

Hence, the prerogatives of the United States are narrowing, its ability to shape the global system in conformity with its ideas and interests are under mounting challenge, and premiums are being placed on diplomacy of an order that seems beyond its present aptitudes.

The U.S. is confounded.

Major offices in the CIA, according to Hersh, have recognized the danger of such plans. It may well be the reason why the CIA's informal spokesmen, David Ignatius, and others wrote that Biden should step down.

If he doesn't the neoconservatives around him will have a great incentive to move on China as fast as possible. As Biden will have difficulties in winning next year's election he needs some objective that can unify the country. A war that he can claim the U.S. will win is one. Some hostile naval exchanges with China will follow.

(Please don't use the comments of this thread for details from the war in Ukraine. The current thread for such is here.)

Comments

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99
So have you lived in China?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2023 21:27 utc | 201

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99
So have you lived in China?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2023 21:27 utc | 202

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2023 20:38 utc | 88
I don’t know what will result from our Patreon chat with Dr. Hudson this afternoon relative to this topic, but he’s on record saying this will be a two+ decade struggle. I see the geoeconomic equation as the ultimate key along with the fact that the two oceans no longer protect the USA as was once envisioned.

Yes, ultimately it will boil down to production. In Cold War I, the Eastern Bloc lasted for a long time, and miniaturisation was one nail (of several) in the coffin — I see it as an amplifier of previously smaller economic differences. This time, in Cold War II, it is different, as the Western Bloc no longer has economic *or* technological superiority. Today the Pentagon announced the end of US dominance in military technology.
This is why all my hope rests on China. For example, the West has a harder time of letting go of all humanitarian pretensions with a competing ideology around. This is exactly why the 1950s-1980s had a somewhat controlled capitalism — I know Pinochet, Thatcher, Reagan successfully worked on shelving it long before 1990.
An empire needs (a) vassals and (b) colonies and (c) enemies to plunder, and I reckon that the USA have tight control over their vassals at the moment and will probably find a target or two for yet another dirty war… but the former Third World has moved on. They must feel the geopolitical pain in Washington. China has been building alliances of a totally different kind for decades.
I hope that Moscow and Beijing are prepared for the inevitable moves to come: Armenia, Serbia, Kazachstan and so many more… it’s pretty obvious. I read somewhere that there Russian universities with professorships on color revolutions (a quick search found Aleksandr Naumov, Moscow State University).

Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 21:28 utc | 203

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2023 20:38 utc | 88
I don’t know what will result from our Patreon chat with Dr. Hudson this afternoon relative to this topic, but he’s on record saying this will be a two+ decade struggle. I see the geoeconomic equation as the ultimate key along with the fact that the two oceans no longer protect the USA as was once envisioned.

Yes, ultimately it will boil down to production. In Cold War I, the Eastern Bloc lasted for a long time, and miniaturisation was one nail (of several) in the coffin — I see it as an amplifier of previously smaller economic differences. This time, in Cold War II, it is different, as the Western Bloc no longer has economic *or* technological superiority. Today the Pentagon announced the end of US dominance in military technology.
This is why all my hope rests on China. For example, the West has a harder time of letting go of all humanitarian pretensions with a competing ideology around. This is exactly why the 1950s-1980s had a somewhat controlled capitalism — I know Pinochet, Thatcher, Reagan successfully worked on shelving it long before 1990.
An empire needs (a) vassals and (b) colonies and (c) enemies to plunder, and I reckon that the USA have tight control over their vassals at the moment and will probably find a target or two for yet another dirty war… but the former Third World has moved on. They must feel the geopolitical pain in Washington. China has been building alliances of a totally different kind for decades.
I hope that Moscow and Beijing are prepared for the inevitable moves to come: Armenia, Serbia, Kazachstan and so many more… it’s pretty obvious. I read somewhere that there Russian universities with professorships on color revolutions (a quick search found Aleksandr Naumov, Moscow State University).

Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 21:28 utc | 204

Putin should begin a mass immigration effort from regions in Russia to Europe, once 10% of Russia’s population of 15o million stream into Europe things will get interesting.
Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 14

I don’t really see this happening, unless that 10% is wearing uniforms and carrying weapons.

Posted by: spindz | Sep 21 2023 21:29 utc | 205

Putin should begin a mass immigration effort from regions in Russia to Europe, once 10% of Russia’s population of 15o million stream into Europe things will get interesting.
Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 14

I don’t really see this happening, unless that 10% is wearing uniforms and carrying weapons.

Posted by: spindz | Sep 21 2023 21:29 utc | 206

Unfortunately, by continuing to double down.
Right now we are in the “please don’t throw me in the briar patch!” stage.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Sep 21 2023 21:29 utc | 207

Unfortunately, by continuing to double down.
Right now we are in the “please don’t throw me in the briar patch!” stage.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Sep 21 2023 21:29 utc | 208

What will happen?
Afghanistan Mark 2. Libya Mark 2. Iraq Mark 2. Syria Mark 2. Who talks about them now?
Everything memory holed, move on to more important things like Kim Kardashian’s latest bum tuck, and the big confrontation with China.
With Hollywood bringing out a new epic once a month to prove what a great victory it all was, Rambo 57.

Posted by: anon | Sep 21 2023 21:31 utc | 209

What will happen?
Afghanistan Mark 2. Libya Mark 2. Iraq Mark 2. Syria Mark 2. Who talks about them now?
Everything memory holed, move on to more important things like Kim Kardashian’s latest bum tuck, and the big confrontation with China.
With Hollywood bringing out a new epic once a month to prove what a great victory it all was, Rambo 57.

Posted by: anon | Sep 21 2023 21:31 utc | 210

So have you lived in China?
Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2023 21:27 utc | 103
No. Why do you ask?
And I note you are not Karlofi.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:32 utc | 211

So have you lived in China?
Posted by: Surferket | Sep 21 2023 21:27 utc | 103
No. Why do you ask?
And I note you are not Karlofi.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:32 utc | 212

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2023 19:27 utc | 61
First, what is the primary policy goal of the Outlaw US Empire? To attain full spectrum dominance.
==================================
It’s questionable who or what is running that Empire but there are still considerable assets including a huge MIC and an extremely powerful credit cartel funded by over a billion willing taxpayers.
One classic tactic is using conflict as leverage: as long as they keep control of certain elements in this Brave New World, they will ease up on the mayhem which they have demonstrated they, not ‘we the people’, control.
Also, maybe they are waiting until Putin and Xi are out of the picture in 10-15 years. 15 years ago was 2008 – not that long.
The chaos and controlling racket has been going well of late; the international billionaire class in all blocs has been steadily increasing global wealth share. And BRICS helping more nations into ‘modernization’ doesn’t mean the oligarchy won’t benefit disproportionately. BRICS Oligarchy profits from development whereas Western Oligarchy profits from death and destruction. Win-Win. Bad Guys against Good Guys with the 1% in all sides share of world GDP steadily increasing.
No more Ukraine SMO? Hmmm…
‘How about an economic Depression in the West? We wipe out small businesses, continuing what we started with lockdowns and SMO inflation soon owning nearly all privately held real estate. Western Finance owns the assets and rental income, China makes the solar panels and power stations – trillions more for all! Or how about another pandemic… heck, why not both? Plus we could throw in food shortages! Already prepped….
So many options; what a wonderful world!’

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 21:34 utc | 213

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 21 2023 19:27 utc | 61
First, what is the primary policy goal of the Outlaw US Empire? To attain full spectrum dominance.
==================================
It’s questionable who or what is running that Empire but there are still considerable assets including a huge MIC and an extremely powerful credit cartel funded by over a billion willing taxpayers.
One classic tactic is using conflict as leverage: as long as they keep control of certain elements in this Brave New World, they will ease up on the mayhem which they have demonstrated they, not ‘we the people’, control.
Also, maybe they are waiting until Putin and Xi are out of the picture in 10-15 years. 15 years ago was 2008 – not that long.
The chaos and controlling racket has been going well of late; the international billionaire class in all blocs has been steadily increasing global wealth share. And BRICS helping more nations into ‘modernization’ doesn’t mean the oligarchy won’t benefit disproportionately. BRICS Oligarchy profits from development whereas Western Oligarchy profits from death and destruction. Win-Win. Bad Guys against Good Guys with the 1% in all sides share of world GDP steadily increasing.
No more Ukraine SMO? Hmmm…
‘How about an economic Depression in the West? We wipe out small businesses, continuing what we started with lockdowns and SMO inflation soon owning nearly all privately held real estate. Western Finance owns the assets and rental income, China makes the solar panels and power stations – trillions more for all! Or how about another pandemic… heck, why not both? Plus we could throw in food shortages! Already prepped….
So many options; what a wonderful world!’

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 21:34 utc | 214

Putin should begin a mass immigration effort from regions in Russia to Europe, once 10% of Russia’s population of 15o million stream into Europe things will get interesting.
Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 14
=============================================
Didn’t you get the memo? They’re headed Vladivostok way. Chinese corporations already drawing up ‘Instant City’ plans….
And anyway, Europe is infested with needy Ukrainians and millions of indigent immigrants from Africa. It’ll be a mess for most of the upcoming century. Best to leave it alone….

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 21:39 utc | 215

Putin should begin a mass immigration effort from regions in Russia to Europe, once 10% of Russia’s population of 15o million stream into Europe things will get interesting.
Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 14
=============================================
Didn’t you get the memo? They’re headed Vladivostok way. Chinese corporations already drawing up ‘Instant City’ plans….
And anyway, Europe is infested with needy Ukrainians and millions of indigent immigrants from Africa. It’ll be a mess for most of the upcoming century. Best to leave it alone….

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 21:39 utc | 216

“Biden just set the trap to provide the exit ramp:
Biden just demanded $24 billion in additional new military aid in the legislation to keep government operating and increase the debt ceiling. He did this while making a UN speech and dropping a dime on Zelinski’s lies in the NYT story.
Biden knows that Republicans will oppose this, so he will use it as a bargaining chip in the deal to raise the debt ceiling.
But he also will use this as cover to blame the Republicans for not funding – and losing – the war.
Exit ramp narrative foundation just laid.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Sep 21 2023 18:30 utc | 32”
My SWAG is that Biden is tying what the Team R establishment really wants (moar war!) to give them an excuse to raise the debt ceiling (“we had to because brave widdle Ukraine.”)
As it is, Team D controls the Presidency and the Senate, and only needs a few Team R votes to get the Ukraine spending through the House.
Stop kidding yourselves, this is nowhere near over.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Sep 21 2023 21:40 utc | 217

“Biden just set the trap to provide the exit ramp:
Biden just demanded $24 billion in additional new military aid in the legislation to keep government operating and increase the debt ceiling. He did this while making a UN speech and dropping a dime on Zelinski’s lies in the NYT story.
Biden knows that Republicans will oppose this, so he will use it as a bargaining chip in the deal to raise the debt ceiling.
But he also will use this as cover to blame the Republicans for not funding – and losing – the war.
Exit ramp narrative foundation just laid.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Sep 21 2023 18:30 utc | 32”
My SWAG is that Biden is tying what the Team R establishment really wants (moar war!) to give them an excuse to raise the debt ceiling (“we had to because brave widdle Ukraine.”)
As it is, Team D controls the Presidency and the Senate, and only needs a few Team R votes to get the Ukraine spending through the House.
Stop kidding yourselves, this is nowhere near over.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Sep 21 2023 21:40 utc | 218

well Jo B in a couple of months will probably be beyond the capability of remembering anything at all….hopefully everyone else will be receiving Russian rehabilitation psychiatric treatment deep in Siberia.

Posted by: Jo | Sep 21 2023 21:43 utc | 219

well Jo B in a couple of months will probably be beyond the capability of remembering anything at all….hopefully everyone else will be receiving Russian rehabilitation psychiatric treatment deep in Siberia.

Posted by: Jo | Sep 21 2023 21:43 utc | 220

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Sep 21 2023 20:20 utc | 86
I would argue that the bankers have made way more money from war AND the resulting chaos which itself leads to bankruptcies and emergencies requiring loans which entail pernicious long term financial and political conditions placed upon the borrowers.
Disaster capitalism feasts on the spoiled landscape of wars, no matter whether the US military/government “wins” – which isn’t to say that a peaceful co-existence replete with trade and innovation wouldn’t be a better solution – it’s just not their business model. Keep in mind, I’m not focusing only on “the bankers” even though Smedley Butler’s observation that “all wars are bankers’ wars” still holds true today. It’s also mega-corporations and the “investor class.” In the case of Ukraine, the war will eventually end or at least reach a steady state low level conflict with limited geographic reach. When that happens, who and what will be left over to prevent the purchase for pennies on the dollar of large swathes of Ukrainian soil by the likes of Cargill, Monsanto, Exxon-Mobil, and other large conglomerates in the extractive and agribusiness sectors? To whom and for how long will the average Ukrainian be indebted by way of the government’s “agreements” with Western private capital? Weapons, “security” and “intelligence” services for hire will be a far smaller piece of the economic pie at that point.
In the post-Cold War period, the US MIC fights wars on behalf of private capital in its various forms. The same capitalist interests of course have large stakes in the MIC (to include the areas you mentioned, not just war making) but that’s just a part of their much larger “portfolios” – The ultimate goal is disruption and capture of longer term assets, not selling crappy fighter jets even though that type of boondoggle is also very lucrative.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 21:45 utc | 221

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Sep 21 2023 20:20 utc | 86
I would argue that the bankers have made way more money from war AND the resulting chaos which itself leads to bankruptcies and emergencies requiring loans which entail pernicious long term financial and political conditions placed upon the borrowers.
Disaster capitalism feasts on the spoiled landscape of wars, no matter whether the US military/government “wins” – which isn’t to say that a peaceful co-existence replete with trade and innovation wouldn’t be a better solution – it’s just not their business model. Keep in mind, I’m not focusing only on “the bankers” even though Smedley Butler’s observation that “all wars are bankers’ wars” still holds true today. It’s also mega-corporations and the “investor class.” In the case of Ukraine, the war will eventually end or at least reach a steady state low level conflict with limited geographic reach. When that happens, who and what will be left over to prevent the purchase for pennies on the dollar of large swathes of Ukrainian soil by the likes of Cargill, Monsanto, Exxon-Mobil, and other large conglomerates in the extractive and agribusiness sectors? To whom and for how long will the average Ukrainian be indebted by way of the government’s “agreements” with Western private capital? Weapons, “security” and “intelligence” services for hire will be a far smaller piece of the economic pie at that point.
In the post-Cold War period, the US MIC fights wars on behalf of private capital in its various forms. The same capitalist interests of course have large stakes in the MIC (to include the areas you mentioned, not just war making) but that’s just a part of their much larger “portfolios” – The ultimate goal is disruption and capture of longer term assets, not selling crappy fighter jets even though that type of boondoggle is also very lucrative.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 21:45 utc | 222

Earlier, I reported Mediazona’s analysis of Russian KIA during the June – Sept period…
As posted by Brian Berletic’s Twitter channel…
Russia lost 3508 Kia….
Earlier analyses give total Russian KIA = ~ 25,000 for the entirety of the SMO….
I suggest one use other sources than those located in the UK, the primary protagonist of the Ukrainian War… when looking for accurate figures…
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 21 2023 20:08 utc | 81
Sorry, I have 49.000 for the whole SMO until end of june 2023 as excess death -covid deaths +1200 per month as best estimate
It is compatible, although higher, with the excess mortality for 18-50 males
and compatible with 4 month delayed inheritance excess in same group
For the counterattack 3.508 would be probably the monthly KIA on the russian side. Ukraine is probably bleeding 25 to 30 k monthly but only have numbers for june that was lighter than that.
On the other side for same period (and compatible with the study by the institute of sociology of kiev, although with people being having 200 people as close friends and family, and the lower amputee limit of 20.000 spring 2022) 02-2022-06-2023 I have 395.000 ukrainians KIA and probably another 90k from the counteroffensive until the end of the month.
Indirect information seems the only way to count something, and using different data to calibrate the intersection between different estimates.
Now the interesting thing is, as I mentioned, why budget more than all the soldiers lost in almost two years for 3 months…. bit of an overkill for business as usual, and a small time window to spend it
best regards

Posted by: newbie | Sep 21 2023 21:51 utc | 223

Earlier, I reported Mediazona’s analysis of Russian KIA during the June – Sept period…
As posted by Brian Berletic’s Twitter channel…
Russia lost 3508 Kia….
Earlier analyses give total Russian KIA = ~ 25,000 for the entirety of the SMO….
I suggest one use other sources than those located in the UK, the primary protagonist of the Ukrainian War… when looking for accurate figures…
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 21 2023 20:08 utc | 81
Sorry, I have 49.000 for the whole SMO until end of june 2023 as excess death -covid deaths +1200 per month as best estimate
It is compatible, although higher, with the excess mortality for 18-50 males
and compatible with 4 month delayed inheritance excess in same group
For the counterattack 3.508 would be probably the monthly KIA on the russian side. Ukraine is probably bleeding 25 to 30 k monthly but only have numbers for june that was lighter than that.
On the other side for same period (and compatible with the study by the institute of sociology of kiev, although with people being having 200 people as close friends and family, and the lower amputee limit of 20.000 spring 2022) 02-2022-06-2023 I have 395.000 ukrainians KIA and probably another 90k from the counteroffensive until the end of the month.
Indirect information seems the only way to count something, and using different data to calibrate the intersection between different estimates.
Now the interesting thing is, as I mentioned, why budget more than all the soldiers lost in almost two years for 3 months…. bit of an overkill for business as usual, and a small time window to spend it
best regards

Posted by: newbie | Sep 21 2023 21:51 utc | 224

@ Incidentally one thing that I will be commending to the attention of the people coming to our meeting will be Karlofi’s rendition of Lavrov’s speech to the UN, which is otherwise unavailable in our corrupted media.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 21 2023 18:07 utc | 22
Superb speech. Read it on Karlof1’s subtrack h/t psychohistorian
On the matter at issue in this thread
Main focus will be on the US Public – with total control of media it will be sold as “weakening Russia and saving Europe” – Europe will be left with the mess and any illusion of itstrategic autonomy’ placed in dustbin of history. RoW will note the shift in global geopoliical power and act accordingly – Whither India is a key
question
Very dangerous times …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 21 2023 22:08 utc | 225

@ Incidentally one thing that I will be commending to the attention of the people coming to our meeting will be Karlofi’s rendition of Lavrov’s speech to the UN, which is otherwise unavailable in our corrupted media.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 21 2023 18:07 utc | 22
Superb speech. Read it on Karlof1’s subtrack h/t psychohistorian
On the matter at issue in this thread
Main focus will be on the US Public – with total control of media it will be sold as “weakening Russia and saving Europe” – Europe will be left with the mess and any illusion of itstrategic autonomy’ placed in dustbin of history. RoW will note the shift in global geopoliical power and act accordingly – Whither India is a key
question
Very dangerous times …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 21 2023 22:08 utc | 226

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99
###############
We’re all impacted but I have my eyes on a bigger picture than the petty nonsense that most of us get distracted by.
It would suck if I was an American, and believed in the mythology of America. Thankfully, I am not an American and do not subscribe to any man-made mythologies.
I was listening to a scholar today speaking about how many empires collapsed in the 20th century. That has been normal throughout human history. America is the Empire of Lies. I cannot imagine that it is not susceptible to the same gravity all other Empires yield to.
And if you are an American, and you love your family (which is your true country, your nation, not some a-holes in DC), be prepared to do what humans have done throughout human history. Migration may be necessary and in fact, the ideal outcome.
People migrated to America looking for a better life. It isn’t ironic or unexpected that centuries later their descendants may need to migrate once again for similar reasons, to pursue the timeless ideals of freedom and prosperity.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 22:16 utc | 227

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99
###############
We’re all impacted but I have my eyes on a bigger picture than the petty nonsense that most of us get distracted by.
It would suck if I was an American, and believed in the mythology of America. Thankfully, I am not an American and do not subscribe to any man-made mythologies.
I was listening to a scholar today speaking about how many empires collapsed in the 20th century. That has been normal throughout human history. America is the Empire of Lies. I cannot imagine that it is not susceptible to the same gravity all other Empires yield to.
And if you are an American, and you love your family (which is your true country, your nation, not some a-holes in DC), be prepared to do what humans have done throughout human history. Migration may be necessary and in fact, the ideal outcome.
People migrated to America looking for a better life. It isn’t ironic or unexpected that centuries later their descendants may need to migrate once again for similar reasons, to pursue the timeless ideals of freedom and prosperity.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 22:16 utc | 228

There are two classic responses: 1) Deny loss! Some are still denying the US loss in Vietnam, after all. 2) Blame scapegoats! Wimpy Ukrainians! Republicans! Russian bots! Chinese bots! Which latter will excuse another losing war with PR China.
They will never ever admit that provoking a war with Russia was really stupid.

Posted by: lester | Sep 21 2023 22:19 utc | 229

There are two classic responses: 1) Deny loss! Some are still denying the US loss in Vietnam, after all. 2) Blame scapegoats! Wimpy Ukrainians! Republicans! Russian bots! Chinese bots! Which latter will excuse another losing war with PR China.
They will never ever admit that provoking a war with Russia was really stupid.

Posted by: lester | Sep 21 2023 22:19 utc | 230

I believe this bit of comedy is on topic for the current thread.
None other than the Pimpeous one himself says we can’t stop supporting the Ukro-Nazis NOW!!!

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 22:23 utc | 231

I believe this bit of comedy is on topic for the current thread.
None other than the Pimpeous one himself says we can’t stop supporting the Ukro-Nazis NOW!!!

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 21 2023 22:23 utc | 232

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 21 2023 20:49 utc | 92
The first thing of note that will happen is that Biden will step down around November. Kamala will take over and do exactly what she’s told, basically that she’s going to focus on the middle classes, climate, diversity, and no mention of Ukraine.

That’s a very detailed prediction, and I agree it makes sense. One year is enough to prop up anybody unpopular (like Harris) given sufficient media control. Your approach provides an explanation why they didn’t need to bother with a proper Democratic candidate.
Fully replacing “Ukraine” by “Covid” is an option (rather than “Taiwan”, for example), I agree too, but the last covid underperformed (here I mean that the original scenarios were very far from reality). Your prediction sounds certainly nicer than NATO-Russia or NATO-China wars. It would mean that most or even all investments in Ukraine are depreciated and that the lucrative reconstruction business would go elsewhere. Blackrock and State Street would not be pleased 🙂

Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 22:26 utc | 233

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 21 2023 20:49 utc | 92
The first thing of note that will happen is that Biden will step down around November. Kamala will take over and do exactly what she’s told, basically that she’s going to focus on the middle classes, climate, diversity, and no mention of Ukraine.

That’s a very detailed prediction, and I agree it makes sense. One year is enough to prop up anybody unpopular (like Harris) given sufficient media control. Your approach provides an explanation why they didn’t need to bother with a proper Democratic candidate.
Fully replacing “Ukraine” by “Covid” is an option (rather than “Taiwan”, for example), I agree too, but the last covid underperformed (here I mean that the original scenarios were very far from reality). Your prediction sounds certainly nicer than NATO-Russia or NATO-China wars. It would mean that most or even all investments in Ukraine are depreciated and that the lucrative reconstruction business would go elsewhere. Blackrock and State Street would not be pleased 🙂

Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 22:26 utc | 234

“Some hostile naval exchanges with China will follow.” – b
Another Gulf of Tonkin Incident? Or some other fake “attack” or “invasion”?

Posted by: lester | Sep 21 2023 22:29 utc | 235

“Some hostile naval exchanges with China will follow.” – b
Another Gulf of Tonkin Incident? Or some other fake “attack” or “invasion”?

Posted by: lester | Sep 21 2023 22:29 utc | 236

For the most part, the American public is not interested in Ukraine or Russia. They are ill-informed thanks to non-stop dissembling coming from the Biden Administration and its subservient media stenographers. Only a relative handful of people take the initiative to seek out truthful reporting from independent outlets like MoA. That is why I do not expect the war to be decisive in the upcoming elections, whether or not it is still ongoing.
The strongest electoral weapons that the Democrats have at their disposal are abortion rights and fear of the radical right wing Supreme Court. Those are issues that will energize voters to come out in large numbers to resist a complete takeover of the US government by right wing extremists. Biden will be propped up to make vapid, platitude-filled speeches that no one will listen to, but it may be enough.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 21 2023 22:41 utc | 237

For the most part, the American public is not interested in Ukraine or Russia. They are ill-informed thanks to non-stop dissembling coming from the Biden Administration and its subservient media stenographers. Only a relative handful of people take the initiative to seek out truthful reporting from independent outlets like MoA. That is why I do not expect the war to be decisive in the upcoming elections, whether or not it is still ongoing.
The strongest electoral weapons that the Democrats have at their disposal are abortion rights and fear of the radical right wing Supreme Court. Those are issues that will energize voters to come out in large numbers to resist a complete takeover of the US government by right wing extremists. Biden will be propped up to make vapid, platitude-filled speeches that no one will listen to, but it may be enough.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 21 2023 22:41 utc | 238

Before NATO bombed Serbia (breaking its defensive values) the Ranking Member(Dem) of DC Foreign Relations Committee raised the need to Chair (Rep) to do so – namely Joe Biden, reading from a script prepared by Council for Foreign Relations CFR of that necessity. Now Dems. and Reps. roles are reversed.
Necessity of opposition party to fall in line and play ball still exists so Houses will converge to common goal outcome (and sought by Black Rock/Vanguard etc financially pushing and Senator funding). If this makes any sense to MoA barflies then Jim Risch (Ranking Member) House Committee on Foreign Relations – is worth watching. He also sits on Intelligence Committee and various Euro/Asian committees. Watching the sweeteners ramp up with his constituent Idaho Defense contractors is also a tell:
Link to Govt Contracts won Defense Idaho
(well known so I’d expect the real cherries on top to be announced further down the dark road).
Poland’s cold feet on the present state of play is likely a gambit to have more say in events in Ukraine – more professionally trained troops desperately needed after Ukraine’s tragic evisceration of its young (and older) men. As Scott Ritter and others have suggested this is most likely to come from Poland though is not yet mature to do so and at a Eastern territory land grab cost, will be coaxed back in once air cover becomes viable (or at least present).
Scarily further down the line CIA will offer second strategy options once Govt. accepts Plan A isn’t working, step one is still “get everyone onboard” – once that’s achieved step two’s “How” will be revealed. Best fact based guess is it will involve a series of accidental lab accidents from the number of Gain of Function Pentagon controlled labs dotted around the borders of Russia and China….I know the bar hates anything that sounds like speculation… I can only say watch this space. Historically no one listens to Cassandra before the event.
c | Sep 21 2023 19:53 utc | 75
Yes! Odessa when good and ready.
karlof1 | Sep 21 2023 19:27 utc | 61
Much appreciated! here and your substack. So glad you started that.
NOTE: I’m not clear what will happen with Cartel ‘wars’, what is clear that US mil recruitment is down and tougher spines than US bred crop are needed – in a service for citizenship deal (Starship Troopers darkly on point). So not a flea, if only you knew.

Posted by: Mercury | Sep 21 2023 22:42 utc | 239

Before NATO bombed Serbia (breaking its defensive values) the Ranking Member(Dem) of DC Foreign Relations Committee raised the need to Chair (Rep) to do so – namely Joe Biden, reading from a script prepared by Council for Foreign Relations CFR of that necessity. Now Dems. and Reps. roles are reversed.
Necessity of opposition party to fall in line and play ball still exists so Houses will converge to common goal outcome (and sought by Black Rock/Vanguard etc financially pushing and Senator funding). If this makes any sense to MoA barflies then Jim Risch (Ranking Member) House Committee on Foreign Relations – is worth watching. He also sits on Intelligence Committee and various Euro/Asian committees. Watching the sweeteners ramp up with his constituent Idaho Defense contractors is also a tell:
Link to Govt Contracts won Defense Idaho
(well known so I’d expect the real cherries on top to be announced further down the dark road).
Poland’s cold feet on the present state of play is likely a gambit to have more say in events in Ukraine – more professionally trained troops desperately needed after Ukraine’s tragic evisceration of its young (and older) men. As Scott Ritter and others have suggested this is most likely to come from Poland though is not yet mature to do so and at a Eastern territory land grab cost, will be coaxed back in once air cover becomes viable (or at least present).
Scarily further down the line CIA will offer second strategy options once Govt. accepts Plan A isn’t working, step one is still “get everyone onboard” – once that’s achieved step two’s “How” will be revealed. Best fact based guess is it will involve a series of accidental lab accidents from the number of Gain of Function Pentagon controlled labs dotted around the borders of Russia and China….I know the bar hates anything that sounds like speculation… I can only say watch this space. Historically no one listens to Cassandra before the event.
c | Sep 21 2023 19:53 utc | 75
Yes! Odessa when good and ready.
karlof1 | Sep 21 2023 19:27 utc | 61
Much appreciated! here and your substack. So glad you started that.
NOTE: I’m not clear what will happen with Cartel ‘wars’, what is clear that US mil recruitment is down and tougher spines than US bred crop are needed – in a service for citizenship deal (Starship Troopers darkly on point). So not a flea, if only you knew.

Posted by: Mercury | Sep 21 2023 22:42 utc | 240

Roman Republic into a blood thirsty degenerate despotic empire
Posted by: 24ouncer | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 26
The Roman Republic has always been bloodthirsty degenerate, only things may have gotten worse after it becomes an formal empire.
https://www.thecollector.com/sexual-assault-of-women-in-ancient-rome/
Just think about how Rome was built on mass rape and population captivity.
It is like that the US and Israel were founded on bloodthirsty degenerate settler colonialism, things didn’t go bad later (Biden or Netanyahu) like many people are saying.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 21 2023 22:47 utc | 241

Roman Republic into a blood thirsty degenerate despotic empire
Posted by: 24ouncer | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 26
The Roman Republic has always been bloodthirsty degenerate, only things may have gotten worse after it becomes an formal empire.
https://www.thecollector.com/sexual-assault-of-women-in-ancient-rome/
Just think about how Rome was built on mass rape and population captivity.
It is like that the US and Israel were founded on bloodthirsty degenerate settler colonialism, things didn’t go bad later (Biden or Netanyahu) like many people are saying.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 21 2023 22:47 utc | 242

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99
If you care about young people, please let them leave the country before conscription is instituted.
The United States may win or lose in WWIII, but it won’t be the happiest ride either way.
South America is the likely appropriate place to go.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 21 2023 22:52 utc | 243

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99
If you care about young people, please let them leave the country before conscription is instituted.
The United States may win or lose in WWIII, but it won’t be the happiest ride either way.
South America is the likely appropriate place to go.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 21 2023 22:52 utc | 244

continue faking american supremacy.
final desperation, deploy
the golden Abrams supertank,
vulnerable to infantry machine guns,
inadequate short firing range,
and easily massacred
with 50yr old RPG grenades.
the last illusion of superiority
going out with a whimper, not a bang.
Why not celebrating.
Nothing else left… but raw meat

Posted by: Crossrifles | Sep 21 2023 23:00 utc | 245

continue faking american supremacy.
final desperation, deploy
the golden Abrams supertank,
vulnerable to infantry machine guns,
inadequate short firing range,
and easily massacred
with 50yr old RPG grenades.
the last illusion of superiority
going out with a whimper, not a bang.
Why not celebrating.
Nothing else left… but raw meat

Posted by: Crossrifles | Sep 21 2023 23:00 utc | 246

Wow great comments and new posters (?)
@“It is still going to take quite a long time until the walls are finally torn down as in Berlin.
Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 21 2023 19:16 utc | 53 “
My friend the walls are only just being built. They start with the half million new graves in the borderlands of the East. We are going into full lockdown mode in the Collective Waste. It will make Covid rules look like child’s play.
That’s what our Masters have decided.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 21 2023 23:01 utc | 247

Wow great comments and new posters (?)
@“It is still going to take quite a long time until the walls are finally torn down as in Berlin.
Posted by: Stonebird | Sep 21 2023 19:16 utc | 53 “
My friend the walls are only just being built. They start with the half million new graves in the borderlands of the East. We are going into full lockdown mode in the Collective Waste. It will make Covid rules look like child’s play.
That’s what our Masters have decided.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 21 2023 23:01 utc | 248

Great article b, possibly marking a historical milestone.
I agree with with the conclusions Konami #2 and Chevrus #13 are drawing: this is a message to the US domestic audience via to manage down the Ukraine topic. “We’ve backed the Ukraine boys in their just fight against Putin, we’ve done what we could. Alas they aren’t as good as we thought, in fact turns out they’re a bit naughty too.”
My eyes are on Poland, I worry they are now being activated to move in for the next stage of this war. Also for the Polish domestic audience the narrative has been changing to Ukraine, the Troublemaker: their draft dodging refugees behaving badly, dumping their grain on us, Z now openly threatening Ukrainians abroad turning on their hosts.
Poland just said it would no longer pass through weapons to Ukraine as it needs to arm itself. That arming probably long done, I think this is framing for the coming appearance of a Polish army of “peacekeepers” marching into Galicia.
Ukraine now downgraded from brave lion to limping dog.. can the Polish hyena resist moving in to take what’s hers?

Posted by: Leser | Sep 21 2023 23:03 utc | 249

Great article b, possibly marking a historical milestone.
I agree with with the conclusions Konami #2 and Chevrus #13 are drawing: this is a message to the US domestic audience via to manage down the Ukraine topic. “We’ve backed the Ukraine boys in their just fight against Putin, we’ve done what we could. Alas they aren’t as good as we thought, in fact turns out they’re a bit naughty too.”
My eyes are on Poland, I worry they are now being activated to move in for the next stage of this war. Also for the Polish domestic audience the narrative has been changing to Ukraine, the Troublemaker: their draft dodging refugees behaving badly, dumping their grain on us, Z now openly threatening Ukrainians abroad turning on their hosts.
Poland just said it would no longer pass through weapons to Ukraine as it needs to arm itself. That arming probably long done, I think this is framing for the coming appearance of a Polish army of “peacekeepers” marching into Galicia.
Ukraine now downgraded from brave lion to limping dog.. can the Polish hyena resist moving in to take what’s hers?

Posted by: Leser | Sep 21 2023 23:03 utc | 250

“One year is enough to prop up anybody unpopular (like Harris) given sufficient media control.”
Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 22:26 utc | 119
Well if Joe ever does stand down, or fall down, we can look forward to lots of articles extolling Kamala’s vision and expertise.

Posted by: dh | Sep 21 2023 23:06 utc | 251

“One year is enough to prop up anybody unpopular (like Harris) given sufficient media control.”
Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 22:26 utc | 119
Well if Joe ever does stand down, or fall down, we can look forward to lots of articles extolling Kamala’s vision and expertise.

Posted by: dh | Sep 21 2023 23:06 utc | 252

Please stop using “neoconservatives”.
They are “Neo-liberal warmongers”.
Neoconservatives implies the US Republican party, but there are many inside the Republican party opposed to large amounts of funding for Ukraine.
The Neo-liberal warmongers are all in on world dominated by George Soros type initiatives..free migration, overtaxing corporations into bankruptcy, UN control of resources to fight “climate change”, etc.
None of those are US conservative positions or beliefs.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Sep 21 2023 23:08 utc | 253

Please stop using “neoconservatives”.
They are “Neo-liberal warmongers”.
Neoconservatives implies the US Republican party, but there are many inside the Republican party opposed to large amounts of funding for Ukraine.
The Neo-liberal warmongers are all in on world dominated by George Soros type initiatives..free migration, overtaxing corporations into bankruptcy, UN control of resources to fight “climate change”, etc.
None of those are US conservative positions or beliefs.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Sep 21 2023 23:08 utc | 254

Good stuff from the americans.
Sending tanks now at the end of the Summer and the beginning of Autumn when the roads will be like s&it in Ukraine after raining. I am sure those tanks which eat a lot of gas will be the actual “game changer” that we are waiting for.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 21 2023 23:10 utc | 255

Good stuff from the americans.
Sending tanks now at the end of the Summer and the beginning of Autumn when the roads will be like s&it in Ukraine after raining. I am sure those tanks which eat a lot of gas will be the actual “game changer” that we are waiting for.

Posted by: JamesBond | Sep 21 2023 23:10 utc | 256

Joe Biden is not a puppet. He’s held these imperial foreign policy ideas for his entire career. Ukraine was his pet project for 8 years under Obama and the minions he had at State during those 8 years all got promotions when he became president. He became president and the democratic field was cleared for him because he was the only on in it that would reliable get into this war. His reliability comes from the fact that he’s 100% for it.
He is not the only power player behind it, but he’s an enthusiastic participant. And that’s why it will be so hard to end. Reagan fired the neocons, even W. got rid of most of them during his second term. Biden is ideologically one of them and always has been. Regardless of whether anyone in intelligence os trying to tell Biden the truth, he’s not going to listen because he doesn’t want to hear it. And he’s famous for only accepting what he wants to hear.
So Joe Biden doesn’t believe he’s losing nor does he believe he’s smashing the US empire against the rock of Ukraine. That’s why Ignatius, et al have to start publishing that Joe Biden’s a problem. Nobody can figure a way out of this mess so long as Biden and his minions are in charge. But that’s going to require wresting control of the Democratic Party from the Clintons and their minions.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 21 2023 23:13 utc | 257

Joe Biden is not a puppet. He’s held these imperial foreign policy ideas for his entire career. Ukraine was his pet project for 8 years under Obama and the minions he had at State during those 8 years all got promotions when he became president. He became president and the democratic field was cleared for him because he was the only on in it that would reliable get into this war. His reliability comes from the fact that he’s 100% for it.
He is not the only power player behind it, but he’s an enthusiastic participant. And that’s why it will be so hard to end. Reagan fired the neocons, even W. got rid of most of them during his second term. Biden is ideologically one of them and always has been. Regardless of whether anyone in intelligence os trying to tell Biden the truth, he’s not going to listen because he doesn’t want to hear it. And he’s famous for only accepting what he wants to hear.
So Joe Biden doesn’t believe he’s losing nor does he believe he’s smashing the US empire against the rock of Ukraine. That’s why Ignatius, et al have to start publishing that Joe Biden’s a problem. Nobody can figure a way out of this mess so long as Biden and his minions are in charge. But that’s going to require wresting control of the Democratic Party from the Clintons and their minions.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 21 2023 23:13 utc | 258

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 22:16 utc | 116
America is the Empire of Lies. I cannot imagine that it is not susceptible to the same gravity all other Empires yield to.
=======================================
That ‘America’ is an ‘Empire’ is part of the Big Lie.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:16 utc | 259

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 22:16 utc | 116
America is the Empire of Lies. I cannot imagine that it is not susceptible to the same gravity all other Empires yield to.
=======================================
That ‘America’ is an ‘Empire’ is part of the Big Lie.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:16 utc | 260

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Sep 21 2023 23:08 utc | 129
Please stop using “neoconservatives”.
They are “Neo-liberal warmongers”.
===============================================
Both are covers.
We need to dig deeper.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:18 utc | 261

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Sep 21 2023 23:08 utc | 129
Please stop using “neoconservatives”.
They are “Neo-liberal warmongers”.
===============================================
Both are covers.
We need to dig deeper.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:18 utc | 262

In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 B.C.E.- 456 B.C.E.)
“War is a matter not so much of arms as of money.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
Thucydides
460 B.C.E. – c. 400 B.C.E.
“Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not.”
Protagoras, 490 B.C.E. – 420 B.C.E.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
Socrates, 470 B.C.E. – 399 B.C.E.
dennis hanna

Posted by: Dennis Hanna | Sep 21 2023 23:22 utc | 263

In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 B.C.E.- 456 B.C.E.)
“War is a matter not so much of arms as of money.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
Thucydides
460 B.C.E. – c. 400 B.C.E.
“Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not.”
Protagoras, 490 B.C.E. – 420 B.C.E.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
Socrates, 470 B.C.E. – 399 B.C.E.
dennis hanna

Posted by: Dennis Hanna | Sep 21 2023 23:22 utc | 264

In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 B.C.E.- 456 B.C.E.)
“War is a matter not so much of arms as of money.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
Thucydides
460 B.C.E. – c. 400 B.C.E.
“Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not.”
Protagoras, 490 B.C.E. – 420 B.C.E.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
Socrates, 470 B.C.E. – 399 B.C.E.
dennis hanna

Posted by: Dennis Hanna | Sep 21 2023 23:22 utc | 265

In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 B.C.E.- 456 B.C.E.)
“War is a matter not so much of arms as of money.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
Thucydides
460 B.C.E. – c. 400 B.C.E.
“Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not.”
Protagoras, 490 B.C.E. – 420 B.C.E.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
Socrates, 470 B.C.E. – 399 B.C.E.
dennis hanna

Posted by: Dennis Hanna | Sep 21 2023 23:22 utc | 266

I was listening to a scholar today speaking about how many empires collapsed in the 20th century. That has been normal throughout human history.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 22:16 utc | 116
If anybody is interested in the topic of rising and falling empires then I can recommend the book Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order by Ray Dalio. He has looked at the empires of the last 500 years and is of the opinion that the Empire of Lies is in its final morbid stages. It’s an excellent read with a ton of statistics and graphs.
You can get a PDF copy at the following link but there are also intro videos on YouTube if you just want to have a quick peek.
https://annas-archive.org/search?q=Principles+for+Dealing+with+the+Changing+World+Order

Posted by: Zet | Sep 21 2023 23:30 utc | 267

I was listening to a scholar today speaking about how many empires collapsed in the 20th century. That has been normal throughout human history.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 22:16 utc | 116
If anybody is interested in the topic of rising and falling empires then I can recommend the book Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order by Ray Dalio. He has looked at the empires of the last 500 years and is of the opinion that the Empire of Lies is in its final morbid stages. It’s an excellent read with a ton of statistics and graphs.
You can get a PDF copy at the following link but there are also intro videos on YouTube if you just want to have a quick peek.
https://annas-archive.org/search?q=Principles+for+Dealing+with+the+Changing+World+Order

Posted by: Zet | Sep 21 2023 23:30 utc | 268

The strongest electoral weapons that the Democrats have at their disposal are …
#######
It is spelled C-O-V-I-D.
Unlimited ballots, zero oversight.
The Democrats have solved elections for good.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:36 utc | 269

The strongest electoral weapons that the Democrats have at their disposal are …
#######
It is spelled C-O-V-I-D.
Unlimited ballots, zero oversight.
The Democrats have solved elections for good.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:36 utc | 270

When you are the Mafia boss, as the US elite certainly is, the greatest risk is the loss of fear in your subordinates and and those that you exploit. The loss of Ukraine to a resurgent Russia will be the icing on the top of the cake of failure for the US – brought old enemies Iraq and Iran together, extended Iranian and Russian influence in Syria, watched Saudi Arabia and Iran play friends with the coaching of Russia and China, lost Afghanistan, being pushed out of sub-Saharan Africa, unable to subjugate Turkey.
At such a low point the Mafia boss needs to “ice” someone in a spectacular way to show that he is still dangerous enough to worry about and respect. China is way too big and powerful to try anything stupid, so some other much less powerful country will do. As one commentator has noted, Ethiopia or Eritrea fit the bill. Ethiopia could so easily turn into a Vietnam 2 quagmire, so perhaps Eritrea. Or Haiti, the ground work is surely being laid for that. Or Niger. Or … With their armouries significantly depleted the US will have to pick their victim carefully.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 21 2023 23:37 utc | 271

When you are the Mafia boss, as the US elite certainly is, the greatest risk is the loss of fear in your subordinates and and those that you exploit. The loss of Ukraine to a resurgent Russia will be the icing on the top of the cake of failure for the US – brought old enemies Iraq and Iran together, extended Iranian and Russian influence in Syria, watched Saudi Arabia and Iran play friends with the coaching of Russia and China, lost Afghanistan, being pushed out of sub-Saharan Africa, unable to subjugate Turkey.
At such a low point the Mafia boss needs to “ice” someone in a spectacular way to show that he is still dangerous enough to worry about and respect. China is way too big and powerful to try anything stupid, so some other much less powerful country will do. As one commentator has noted, Ethiopia or Eritrea fit the bill. Ethiopia could so easily turn into a Vietnam 2 quagmire, so perhaps Eritrea. Or Haiti, the ground work is surely being laid for that. Or Niger. Or … With their armouries significantly depleted the US will have to pick their victim carefully.

Posted by: Roger | Sep 21 2023 23:37 utc | 272

Posted by: Zet | Sep 21 2023 23:30 utc | 136
##############
Cheers, friend.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:37 utc | 273

Posted by: Zet | Sep 21 2023 23:30 utc | 136
##############
Cheers, friend.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:37 utc | 274

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:16 utc | 132
##############
Very little of my posting is dialectic, it is overwhelmingly rhetoric.
“Empire of Lies” triggers the right people, in the right way.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:38 utc | 275

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 21 2023 23:16 utc | 132
##############
Very little of my posting is dialectic, it is overwhelmingly rhetoric.
“Empire of Lies” triggers the right people, in the right way.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:38 utc | 276

I feel like Hersh is talking to retired intelligence people who (maybe) don’t have the most recent information. In this piece he talks to someone who mentions Burma Shave signs, which have not been seen since 1963.
In his Nord Stream piece, he, or one of his sources, got Jens Stoltenberg confused with his father. That piece turned out to be (possibly) wrong.
I think Hersh needs to find younger people in the intelligence community to talk to.

Posted by: dandante | Sep 21 2023 23:40 utc | 277

I feel like Hersh is talking to retired intelligence people who (maybe) don’t have the most recent information. In this piece he talks to someone who mentions Burma Shave signs, which have not been seen since 1963.
In his Nord Stream piece, he, or one of his sources, got Jens Stoltenberg confused with his father. That piece turned out to be (possibly) wrong.
I think Hersh needs to find younger people in the intelligence community to talk to.

Posted by: dandante | Sep 21 2023 23:40 utc | 278

If the USA goes the “throw some crappy little country against the wall” route, then Haiti would be too easy. Besides, there are no lucrative spoils to be had there. Venezuela would be a prime target — after all, it’s all about the oil. Just conjure up some “Venezuelan terrorists” to stage a 9/11, and we’re good to go. Or maybe Colombia for daring to elect a non-comprador: we can blame several decades of narcoterrorism on him, and I imagine the Colombian military would be only too happy to offer at least covert support. Or we could go big and try to take out Mexico, which has been awfully “uppity” under AMLO.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 21 2023 23:55 utc | 279

If the USA goes the “throw some crappy little country against the wall” route, then Haiti would be too easy. Besides, there are no lucrative spoils to be had there. Venezuela would be a prime target — after all, it’s all about the oil. Just conjure up some “Venezuelan terrorists” to stage a 9/11, and we’re good to go. Or maybe Colombia for daring to elect a non-comprador: we can blame several decades of narcoterrorism on him, and I imagine the Colombian military would be only too happy to offer at least covert support. Or we could go big and try to take out Mexico, which has been awfully “uppity” under AMLO.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 21 2023 23:55 utc | 280

I watched a stream posted on Slavyangrad which was a discussion with Dima last night Aotearoa time. The you tube link is here for those who dont use TG. &
Dima as usual discusses the tactical moves on the GUC (Great Ukie Counteroffensive) and its strategic implications. He says he believes that the losses suffered by the ukies have been morphed by amerikan MIC into something rather different than victory over Russia.
More important to the MIC is ‘data gathering’ testing amerikan weapons systems against Russian/Chinese ones in the hope that a system superior to Russia/China’s similar systems or counters will be found, then they will manufacture kazillions of whatever it is. They will make loads of money on the way and much more when the wonder weapon has been developed then mass manufactured. The vast majority of amerikan pols are owned by the MIC so they will do as they are told, which will be that it is vital for amerika’s interests to develop battle tactics superior to Russia/China’s but they will not say that to the masses who will be told that it is crucial to support the desperate ukie allies even while those desperate allies are being sacrificed in lots of a coupla hundred thousand a year during the data gathering.
Of course there are many obstacles to this not least of all the ukie army’s uninterest in committing mass suicide and increasing pressure from within amerika to quit now before any more people die.
It is a credible thesis when we consider that amerika casually condemned more than 500,000 Iraqi infants to die between 1991 & 2003, just so they could steal Iraq’s oil at a little less cost. 500,000 innocent babies is nothing to them meaning that a few million ukie grunts is even less.
I just wish that a fuckin’ sight more amerikans would wake up to the illness that their elites suffer from and get rid of ’em all themselves.
That won’t happen which will mean it will be down to the rest of the world to go in and sort it out – that will certainly not be pretty as there is virtually no nation on the planet who hasn’t suffered huge economic loss and deaths from amerika’s greed at some time since the end of WW2.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 281

I watched a stream posted on Slavyangrad which was a discussion with Dima last night Aotearoa time. The you tube link is here for those who dont use TG. &
Dima as usual discusses the tactical moves on the GUC (Great Ukie Counteroffensive) and its strategic implications. He says he believes that the losses suffered by the ukies have been morphed by amerikan MIC into something rather different than victory over Russia.
More important to the MIC is ‘data gathering’ testing amerikan weapons systems against Russian/Chinese ones in the hope that a system superior to Russia/China’s similar systems or counters will be found, then they will manufacture kazillions of whatever it is. They will make loads of money on the way and much more when the wonder weapon has been developed then mass manufactured. The vast majority of amerikan pols are owned by the MIC so they will do as they are told, which will be that it is vital for amerika’s interests to develop battle tactics superior to Russia/China’s but they will not say that to the masses who will be told that it is crucial to support the desperate ukie allies even while those desperate allies are being sacrificed in lots of a coupla hundred thousand a year during the data gathering.
Of course there are many obstacles to this not least of all the ukie army’s uninterest in committing mass suicide and increasing pressure from within amerika to quit now before any more people die.
It is a credible thesis when we consider that amerika casually condemned more than 500,000 Iraqi infants to die between 1991 & 2003, just so they could steal Iraq’s oil at a little less cost. 500,000 innocent babies is nothing to them meaning that a few million ukie grunts is even less.
I just wish that a fuckin’ sight more amerikans would wake up to the illness that their elites suffer from and get rid of ’em all themselves.
That won’t happen which will mean it will be down to the rest of the world to go in and sort it out – that will certainly not be pretty as there is virtually no nation on the planet who hasn’t suffered huge economic loss and deaths from amerika’s greed at some time since the end of WW2.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 22 2023 0:05 utc | 282

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:37 utc | 139
“Empire of Lies” triggers the right people, in the right way.
===================================
At the same time ‘Empire of Lies’ gratifies the wrong people in the wrong way.
Left-and-right and right-and-wrong are the bogus constructs out of which all such Empires are built. As are the Nation States seemingly allied with or resisting such ‘Empires’.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 0:06 utc | 283

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 21 2023 23:37 utc | 139
“Empire of Lies” triggers the right people, in the right way.
===================================
At the same time ‘Empire of Lies’ gratifies the wrong people in the wrong way.
Left-and-right and right-and-wrong are the bogus constructs out of which all such Empires are built. As are the Nation States seemingly allied with or resisting such ‘Empires’.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 0:06 utc | 284

Hey b, thanks for this site. The US will spin it as a win one way or another. And, half of the people will believe it. We’re not headed for the great reset, we’re headed for the great chaos. Nothing will change our trajectory now. Expect more.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 22 2023 0:08 utc | 285

Hey b, thanks for this site. The US will spin it as a win one way or another. And, half of the people will believe it. We’re not headed for the great reset, we’re headed for the great chaos. Nothing will change our trajectory now. Expect more.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 22 2023 0:08 utc | 286

How traitors cope::::
Biden just now, gave the illegal immigrants, “Federally Protected “status!!!
Wow, this gives them priority over veterans, priority of employment, loans, housing, benefits,
while the Americans vets are thrown from sleeping in the streets to the gutter.
What a screwed up nation
America

Posted by: Redwhiteorange | Sep 22 2023 0:12 utc | 287

How traitors cope::::
Biden just now, gave the illegal immigrants, “Federally Protected “status!!!
Wow, this gives them priority over veterans, priority of employment, loans, housing, benefits,
while the Americans vets are thrown from sleeping in the streets to the gutter.
What a screwed up nation
America

Posted by: Redwhiteorange | Sep 22 2023 0:12 utc | 288

Crazy people do crazy things. Like this one:
Ready to exchange the lives of one thousand servicemen against one hectare of Russian territory. Or maybe even less than one hectare.
Donetsk, Lougansk, Kherson and Zaporozhe are of course Russian territories in the course of being completely liberated by the ukronazis invaders.
Crazy people do crazy things. Like this one:
Thinking that the ukronazis thugs could win against Russia. They had everything wrong from the start. The reason: they are telling lies to the journalists and when they read the press, they believe that what is written is true.
Everybody should know if not already aware the speach of the French Economy ministre, Bruno Le Maire:
“Oui, les sanctions sont efficaces. Les sanctions économiques sont même d’une efficacité redoutable.
Et je ne veux laisser planer aucune ambiguité sur la détermination européenne à ce sujet.
Nous allons livrer une guerre économique et financière totale à la Russie. (…)
Nous allons donc provoquer l’effondrement de l’économie russe.”
“Yes, the sanctions are effective. Economic sanctions are even of formidable effectiveness.
And I do not want to leave any ambiguity about the European determination on this subject.
We are going to wage a total economic and financial war on Russia. (…)
So we will provoke the collapse of the Russian economy.”
Meanwhile it is the European economies which are collapsing. Crazy, isn’t it?
And stupid.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:16 utc | 289

Crazy people do crazy things. Like this one:
Ready to exchange the lives of one thousand servicemen against one hectare of Russian territory. Or maybe even less than one hectare.
Donetsk, Lougansk, Kherson and Zaporozhe are of course Russian territories in the course of being completely liberated by the ukronazis invaders.
Crazy people do crazy things. Like this one:
Thinking that the ukronazis thugs could win against Russia. They had everything wrong from the start. The reason: they are telling lies to the journalists and when they read the press, they believe that what is written is true.
Everybody should know if not already aware the speach of the French Economy ministre, Bruno Le Maire:
“Oui, les sanctions sont efficaces. Les sanctions économiques sont même d’une efficacité redoutable.
Et je ne veux laisser planer aucune ambiguité sur la détermination européenne à ce sujet.
Nous allons livrer une guerre économique et financière totale à la Russie. (…)
Nous allons donc provoquer l’effondrement de l’économie russe.”
“Yes, the sanctions are effective. Economic sanctions are even of formidable effectiveness.
And I do not want to leave any ambiguity about the European determination on this subject.
We are going to wage a total economic and financial war on Russia. (…)
So we will provoke the collapse of the Russian economy.”
Meanwhile it is the European economies which are collapsing. Crazy, isn’t it?
And stupid.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:16 utc | 290

I really don’t know why people can’t just accept that I am smarter than everybody else, and just accept my analyses. (Sure, I can be wrong, but I need your attention here.) People have been thinking about the nature of empires, their rise and fall, and their greed for resources (and Spice) since… forever. But I never see them looking more deeply. So, now we confront the beginning of the fall of the mostly North Atlantic Empire (mNAE) and the rise of the mostly Eur-Asian Empire (mEAE), currently marked by the defeat of the (mNAE) in the Ukraine. The Ukraine does have some resources, plus some prime military launching locations against the mEAE, but nothing that is a ‘must have’. So how will the ruling elite of the mNAE cope with this latest loss?
Actually, I don’t think that greed for resources (and Spice) is the salient consideration. Rather, the psychology of the mNAE ruling elite is what counts the most. Sometimes, the ruling elite of an empire (or any nation) is mostly comprised of relatively normal individuals. And sometimes it is almost wholly comprised of psychofascists. Presently we have relative neurotypicals ruling the mEAE, and psychofascists ruling the mNAE. Psychofascists are in the psychopathic ‘constellation’, but they have some distinguishing traits. These include a propensity to work together, profound gratuitous sadism (usually manifested in creating wars), lust for power, and utter lack of any sense of remorse. So the biggest question is; how will these psychofascists cope with the loss of the Ukraine? In fact, they won’t really care. Winning is not so important to them as satisfying their lust for sadistic warfare, so they will simply move on to the next slaughter, which could be anywhere. (Obviously, empires ruled for too long by psychofascists always degenerate and ‘fall’.)
By the way, if I ruled the Russian Kremlin, I would put Western Ukraine out of its misery by sending the whole of it back to the horse-and-buggy era of 1886. In 1886 the first AC electric power system was demonstrated in Great Barrington, Massachusetts by Westinghouse inc. And the first successful gasoline-driven automobile was patented. Russia could easily accomplish this by destroying all of the 300 kilovolt step up transformers at power stations. These take years to build, and as I recall are only manufactured in Germany (which is now out of business), Russia, and China, so they would never be replaced. Western Ukraine would instantly become a fourth world wilderness.

Posted by: blues | Sep 22 2023 0:17 utc | 291

I really don’t know why people can’t just accept that I am smarter than everybody else, and just accept my analyses. (Sure, I can be wrong, but I need your attention here.) People have been thinking about the nature of empires, their rise and fall, and their greed for resources (and Spice) since… forever. But I never see them looking more deeply. So, now we confront the beginning of the fall of the mostly North Atlantic Empire (mNAE) and the rise of the mostly Eur-Asian Empire (mEAE), currently marked by the defeat of the (mNAE) in the Ukraine. The Ukraine does have some resources, plus some prime military launching locations against the mEAE, but nothing that is a ‘must have’. So how will the ruling elite of the mNAE cope with this latest loss?
Actually, I don’t think that greed for resources (and Spice) is the salient consideration. Rather, the psychology of the mNAE ruling elite is what counts the most. Sometimes, the ruling elite of an empire (or any nation) is mostly comprised of relatively normal individuals. And sometimes it is almost wholly comprised of psychofascists. Presently we have relative neurotypicals ruling the mEAE, and psychofascists ruling the mNAE. Psychofascists are in the psychopathic ‘constellation’, but they have some distinguishing traits. These include a propensity to work together, profound gratuitous sadism (usually manifested in creating wars), lust for power, and utter lack of any sense of remorse. So the biggest question is; how will these psychofascists cope with the loss of the Ukraine? In fact, they won’t really care. Winning is not so important to them as satisfying their lust for sadistic warfare, so they will simply move on to the next slaughter, which could be anywhere. (Obviously, empires ruled for too long by psychofascists always degenerate and ‘fall’.)
By the way, if I ruled the Russian Kremlin, I would put Western Ukraine out of its misery by sending the whole of it back to the horse-and-buggy era of 1886. In 1886 the first AC electric power system was demonstrated in Great Barrington, Massachusetts by Westinghouse inc. And the first successful gasoline-driven automobile was patented. Russia could easily accomplish this by destroying all of the 300 kilovolt step up transformers at power stations. These take years to build, and as I recall are only manufactured in Germany (which is now out of business), Russia, and China, so they would never be replaced. Western Ukraine would instantly become a fourth world wilderness.

Posted by: blues | Sep 22 2023 0:17 utc | 292

@ 141
“If you want your man/
To be a muff diver/
Don’t make him work at it/
Like that guy MacGuyver…
BURMA SHAVE

Posted by: Adriatic Hillbilly | Sep 22 2023 0:17 utc | 293

@ 141
“If you want your man/
To be a muff diver/
Don’t make him work at it/
Like that guy MacGuyver…
BURMA SHAVE

Posted by: Adriatic Hillbilly | Sep 22 2023 0:17 utc | 294

bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99–
I answered your question in the affirmative–Yes, I’d live in either China or Russia. But I’ve quite often written about the considerations I have regarding moving to either. Despite what the USA may appear to others, there are a few of its citizens who are loyal and believe that honor is an important trait and value, and is the one thing that can’t be taken from you.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2023 0:18 utc | 295

bubbles | Sep 21 2023 21:11 utc | 99–
I answered your question in the affirmative–Yes, I’d live in either China or Russia. But I’ve quite often written about the considerations I have regarding moving to either. Despite what the USA may appear to others, there are a few of its citizens who are loyal and believe that honor is an important trait and value, and is the one thing that can’t be taken from you.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2023 0:18 utc | 296

Sorry, it should read:
Donetsk, Lougansk, Kherson and Zaporozhe are of course Russian territories in the course of being completely liberated FROM the ukronazis invaders.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:18 utc | 297

Sorry, it should read:
Donetsk, Lougansk, Kherson and Zaporozhe are of course Russian territories in the course of being completely liberated FROM the ukronazis invaders.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 22 2023 0:18 utc | 298

Saving face post defeat has never an issue for the Americans. They simply pretend it didn’t happen or pretend they won. After humiliation of defeat in Afghanistan; “We will destroy the Russians.” Soon after NATO stooge defeat by Russia; “We will destroy China.” Meanwhile country’s infrastructure is crumbling and people hungry living in tents.
After Vietnam defeat; Americans rebuilt their confidence with invasions of Grenada and Panama. Interestingly, they dare not directly attack Cuba, Iran nor North Korea. Seeing NATO performance against Afghan fighters with no artillery, no air defense and no aircraft: I am certain empire will crumble in war with any peer or near peer competitors. Hence, proxy wars that their stooges lose.

Posted by: Saag | Sep 22 2023 0:19 utc | 299

Saving face post defeat has never an issue for the Americans. They simply pretend it didn’t happen or pretend they won. After humiliation of defeat in Afghanistan; “We will destroy the Russians.” Soon after NATO stooge defeat by Russia; “We will destroy China.” Meanwhile country’s infrastructure is crumbling and people hungry living in tents.
After Vietnam defeat; Americans rebuilt their confidence with invasions of Grenada and Panama. Interestingly, they dare not directly attack Cuba, Iran nor North Korea. Seeing NATO performance against Afghan fighters with no artillery, no air defense and no aircraft: I am certain empire will crumble in war with any peer or near peer competitors. Hence, proxy wars that their stooges lose.

Posted by: Saag | Sep 22 2023 0:19 utc | 300