Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 21, 2023
How Will The Biden Administration Cope With Its Loss In Ukraine?

While this piece will touch on the war in Ukraine it is more about the U.S., and the Biden administration, and how they will cope with their  defeat in their war on Russia. Please keep that in mind when commentating.

Washington's moment of recognizing the defeat in Ukraine, and its consequences, has yet to arrive.

In his latest piece (archived) Seymour Hersh reports on the state of the war and of significant differences of opinion between the U.S. intelligence services:

There are significant elements in the American intelligence community, relying on field reports and technical intelligence, who believe that the demoralized Ukraine army has given up on the possibility of overcoming the heavily mined three-tier Russian defense lines and taking the war to Crimea and the four oblasts seized and annexed by Russia. The reality is that Volodymyr Zelensky’s battered army no longer has any chance of a victory.

The war continues, I have been told by an official with access to current intelligence, because Zelensky insists that it must. There is no discussion in his headquarters or in the Biden White House of a ceasefire and no interest in talks that could lead to an end to the slaughter. “It’s all lies,” the official said, speaking of the Ukrainian claims of incremental progress in the offensive that has suffered staggering losses, while gaining ground in a few scattered areas that the Ukrainian military measures in meters per week.

The American intelligence official I spoke with spent the early years of his career working against Soviet aggression and spying has respect for Putin’s intellect but contempt for his decision to go to war with Ukraine and to initiate the death and destruction that war brings. But, as he told me, “The war is over. Russia has won. There is no Ukrainian offensive anymore, but the White House and the American media have to keep the lie going.

“The truth is if the Ukrainian army is ordered to continue the offensive, the army would mutiny. The soldiers aren’t willing to die any more, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”

The differences between the current CIA and the more neoconned Defense Intelligence Agency extend to their view on China:

A byproduct of the Biden administration’s neocon hostility to Russia and China—exemplified by the remarks of Secretary of State Tony Blinken, who has repeatedly stated that he will not currently countenance a ceasefire in Ukraine—has been a significant split in the intelligence community. One casualty are the secret National Intelligence Estimates that have delineated the parameters of American foreign policy for decades. Some key offices in the CIA have refused, in many cases, to participate in the NIE process because of profound political disagreement with the administration’s aggressive foreign policy. One recent failure involved a planned NIE that dealt with the outcome of a Chinese attack on Taiwan.

I have reported for many weeks on the longstanding disagreement between the CIA and other elements of the intelligence community on the prognosis of the current war in the Ukraine. CIA analysts have consistently been far more skeptical than their counterparts at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) on the prospect for a Ukraine success. The American media has ignored the dispute, but the London-headquartered Economist, whose well-informed reporters do not get bylines, has not.

The DIA is still saying that the Ukrainian army has a chance, a small one though, to break through the Russian lines. The White House still seems to believe in that. The CIA knows that the Ukraine is done.

Alastair Crooke, in a talk (vid) with Judge Napolitano, says that the moment of truth will only arrive in November.

But what will happen when everyone recognizes and acknowledges, if silently, that the war on Russia has failed?

Michael Brenner argues that the US Can’t Deal With Defeat:

Ukraine, today, has suffered huge losses of even greater (proportional) magnitude [than the German Wehrmacht in the Battle of Kursk], without achieving any significant territorial gains, unable even to reach the first layer of the Surovikin Line. That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine. Hence, Moscow is poised to exploit its decisive advantage to the point where it can dictate terms to Kiev, Washington, Brussels et al.

The Biden administration has made no plans for such an eventuality, nor have its obedient European governments. Their divorce from reality will make this state of affairs all the more stunning — and galling. Bereft of ideas, they will flounder. How they will react is unknowable. We can say with certainty one thing: the collective West, and especially the U.S., will have suffered a grave defeat. Coping with that truth will become the main order of business.

Here is a menu of options for handling it:

Redefine what is meant by defeat, victory, failure, success, loss, gain. There is a new narrative that is scripted to stress these talking points: …

This narrative already has been given an airing in speeches by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Acting Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Its target audience is the American public; nobody outside the Collective West buys it, though — whether Washington has registered that fact of diplomatic life or not.

Retroactively Scale Back the Goals & Stakes

Cultivate Amnesia

Next: China

It is likely that the administration will use all four options to make the pain and memory of defeat go away. Declare victory over Russia  because Russia was stopped at the border with Poland. Then forget about all the details and consequences and move towards war on China.

That could end catastrophically.

The focal shift from Russia in Europe to China in Asia is less a mechanism for coping with defeat than the pathological reaction of a country that, feeling a gnawing sense of diminishing prowess, can manage to do nothing more than try one final fling at proving to itself that it still has the right stuff — since living without that exalted sense of self is intolerable.

The U.S. was fortunate, in the case of Vietnam, that the United States’ dominant position in the world outside of the Soviet Bloc and the PRC allowed it to maintain respect, status and influence.

Things have now changed, though. The U.S. relative strength in all domains is weaker, strong centrifugal forces around the globe are producing a dispersion of power, will and outlook among other states. The BRICs phenomenon is the concrete embodiment of that reality.

Hence, the prerogatives of the United States are narrowing, its ability to shape the global system in conformity with its ideas and interests are under mounting challenge, and premiums are being placed on diplomacy of an order that seems beyond its present aptitudes.

The U.S. is confounded.

Major offices in the CIA, according to Hersh, have recognized the danger of such plans. It may well be the reason why the CIA's informal spokesmen, David Ignatius, and others wrote that Biden should step down.

If he doesn't the neoconservatives around him will have a great incentive to move on China as fast as possible. As Biden will have difficulties in winning next year's election he needs some objective that can unify the country. A war that he can claim the U.S. will win is one. Some hostile naval exchanges with China will follow.

(Please don't use the comments of this thread for details from the war in Ukraine. The current thread for such is here.)

Comments

Biden’s a cypher.
In 1988 he plagiarised Neill Kinnocks speeches during his presidential run.
It was revealed and he slunk away.
Everyone forgot what a stupid lying creep he is.
And here he is today running the US to the abyss.
How will the 0.1% control the remainder of the US population is the question.
The Ukrainian is just another loss of face to be forgotten.
The state of the US economy over next 18 months is the real issue.
Paying more on debt than defence isn’t going to continue for long.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 21 2023 17:15 utc | 1

Biden’s a cypher.
In 1988 he plagiarised Neill Kinnocks speeches during his presidential run.
It was revealed and he slunk away.
Everyone forgot what a stupid lying creep he is.
And here he is today running the US to the abyss.
How will the 0.1% control the remainder of the US population is the question.
The Ukrainian is just another loss of face to be forgotten.
The state of the US economy over next 18 months is the real issue.
Paying more on debt than defence isn’t going to continue for long.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 21 2023 17:15 utc | 2

Intriguing piece, many thanks! So the CIA sees enough urgency to go public: I consider Ignatius and Hersh as mouthpieces of the CIA.
Having no interest in global war, I hope that their faction is strong enough to prevent the worst (much worse than some “naval exchanges”).
I still lack the fantasy to see why neocon faction the settled on Biden for the elections. Usually this happens if you need to buy time: the classical example is when the papal conclave can’t agree on a candidate and they settle for some really old guy for the time being. I get that with Biden at the helm, the US government has no desire for peace in Ukraine but the war is still lost and they need to find a way out.

Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 17:27 utc | 3

Intriguing piece, many thanks! So the CIA sees enough urgency to go public: I consider Ignatius and Hersh as mouthpieces of the CIA.
Having no interest in global war, I hope that their faction is strong enough to prevent the worst (much worse than some “naval exchanges”).
I still lack the fantasy to see why neocon faction the settled on Biden for the elections. Usually this happens if you need to buy time: the classical example is when the papal conclave can’t agree on a candidate and they settle for some really old guy for the time being. I get that with Biden at the helm, the US government has no desire for peace in Ukraine but the war is still lost and they need to find a way out.

Posted by: Konami | Sep 21 2023 17:27 utc | 4

How will the Biden White House deal with defeat in Ukraine?
Just a wild guess: Stir up trouble in Armenia and Georgia. Maybe bomb Sochi, just for the heck of it.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Sep 21 2023 17:29 utc | 5

How will the Biden White House deal with defeat in Ukraine?
Just a wild guess: Stir up trouble in Armenia and Georgia. Maybe bomb Sochi, just for the heck of it.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Sep 21 2023 17:29 utc | 6

@SwissArmyMan #2
The attrition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the “Surovikin Line” may work for now, but at some point Russia will have to launch an offensive. And there are still many things that must be improved in the Russian Armed Forces before an offensive can succeed with acceptable losses.

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 17:38 utc | 7

@SwissArmyMan #2
The attrition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the “Surovikin Line” may work for now, but at some point Russia will have to launch an offensive. And there are still many things that must be improved in the Russian Armed Forces before an offensive can succeed with acceptable losses.

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 17:38 utc | 8

Maybe the US elites eill reassure themselves to be the one and only suprrpower by invading another hyperpower like… haiti.

Posted by: Orgel | Sep 21 2023 17:44 utc | 9

Maybe the US elites eill reassure themselves to be the one and only suprrpower by invading another hyperpower like… haiti.

Posted by: Orgel | Sep 21 2023 17:44 utc | 10

The US knows how to “lose” wars. The Deep State can lose every war it wages and still “win” because the main (but not only) cause of every major war since Korea has been to enrich the MIC. The war in Ukraine has already been won. It’s causing Europe to spend more on “defense” and the pressure will be enormous to dramatically increase the “defense” budget in the US–a clear win for the ruling elites. All this neocon BS is just a convenient ideology for numbskulls like Blinken and the think-tank types to feel morally superior to the rest of us since they honestly believe they are fighting evil. This speaks to the incredible failure of the US university system to educate the ruling class. Thus, by process of elimination, it is the hustling or arguabley the criminal) class that has supplanted the managerial/intellectual class as the true ruling .

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Sep 21 2023 17:44 utc | 11

The US knows how to “lose” wars. The Deep State can lose every war it wages and still “win” because the main (but not only) cause of every major war since Korea has been to enrich the MIC. The war in Ukraine has already been won. It’s causing Europe to spend more on “defense” and the pressure will be enormous to dramatically increase the “defense” budget in the US–a clear win for the ruling elites. All this neocon BS is just a convenient ideology for numbskulls like Blinken and the think-tank types to feel morally superior to the rest of us since they honestly believe they are fighting evil. This speaks to the incredible failure of the US university system to educate the ruling class. Thus, by process of elimination, it is the hustling or arguabley the criminal) class that has supplanted the managerial/intellectual class as the true ruling .

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Sep 21 2023 17:44 utc | 12

Considering the neocons started a pandemic to win the last election, it would be incredibly unsurprising if they started a world war to win this one. Unfortunately, with NATO down a lot of ammunition after the Ukraine debacle, and with less than a year to a year before Biden would start a war to win the 2024 election, there would be no time to replenish stocks, so in addition to the U.S. most likely losing said war because it’s much too far away and the U.S. Navy is outdated in an era or hypersonic weapons, the US and west Pacific allies would even more likely lose due to lacking ammunition.

Posted by: Cthulhu | Sep 21 2023 17:46 utc | 13

Considering the neocons started a pandemic to win the last election, it would be incredibly unsurprising if they started a world war to win this one. Unfortunately, with NATO down a lot of ammunition after the Ukraine debacle, and with less than a year to a year before Biden would start a war to win the 2024 election, there would be no time to replenish stocks, so in addition to the U.S. most likely losing said war because it’s much too far away and the U.S. Navy is outdated in an era or hypersonic weapons, the US and west Pacific allies would even more likely lose due to lacking ammunition.

Posted by: Cthulhu | Sep 21 2023 17:46 utc | 14

The other observation.
It not like there’s any other choice.
The question is will the realisation finish with a bang or a sigh of resignation?

Posted by: jpc | Sep 21 2023 17:50 utc | 15

The other observation.
It not like there’s any other choice.
The question is will the realisation finish with a bang or a sigh of resignation?

Posted by: jpc | Sep 21 2023 17:50 utc | 16

Regarding the question raised by b, my answer is that the Biden Administration will not recognize any loss in the Ukraine while the front line stays where it is now. The losses in Ukrainian lives will be hidden. They will say: “It was a great success! We have kicked the Russians from Kiev, Kharkov and Kherson, and we have stopped them in the southeast! Ukrainian freedom and democracy have been saved! We will never recognize the occupied territories as part of Russia! Russia will crumble one day anyway under the weight of its kleptocratic regime, and that’s when these territories will be returned!”

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 17:51 utc | 17

Regarding the question raised by b, my answer is that the Biden Administration will not recognize any loss in the Ukraine while the front line stays where it is now. The losses in Ukrainian lives will be hidden. They will say: “It was a great success! We have kicked the Russians from Kiev, Kharkov and Kherson, and we have stopped them in the southeast! Ukrainian freedom and democracy have been saved! We will never recognize the occupied territories as part of Russia! Russia will crumble one day anyway under the weight of its kleptocratic regime, and that’s when these territories will be returned!”

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 17:51 utc | 18

One has to wonder where this disaster will end. What is the globalists and elites drive Putin to something drastic like tactical nukes. What will their puppet Biden choose to do? Send troops, provide Zelensky with tactical nukes? The insanity of the Military Industrial Congressional Complex is actually frightening. Time will tell how bad the bad decisions of Puppet Biden end up.

Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:51 utc | 19

One has to wonder where this disaster will end. What is the globalists and elites drive Putin to something drastic like tactical nukes. What will their puppet Biden choose to do? Send troops, provide Zelensky with tactical nukes? The insanity of the Military Industrial Congressional Complex is actually frightening. Time will tell how bad the bad decisions of Puppet Biden end up.

Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:51 utc | 20

Cultivating amnesia will work with the American public but it will not work globally … although the folks at State and in the WH will proceed on the assumption that all the world’s media is the NYT and CNN. The point in the block quote about how the US could be defeated in Vietnam with catastrophic reputational loss because it was a different US and a different global context is important.
And so we return to the fundamental error Biden made in spring 2022 when he pushed Zelensky to fight on and make this an existential conflict for American power. He can’t walk away from it cleanly. The best play was to let Ukraine sign a negotiated settlement then and maintain pressure on Russia. But now Biden is in too deep. Which of course leaves the US and the world in a dangerous spot: to what degree will Biden gamble on Ukraine?
I don’t see abandoning Ukraine for a pivot to China. Too much personal prestige is involved and Biden’s state department are Russia hawks first and less concerned about China at a personal opinion level.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 21 2023 17:53 utc | 21

Cultivating amnesia will work with the American public but it will not work globally … although the folks at State and in the WH will proceed on the assumption that all the world’s media is the NYT and CNN. The point in the block quote about how the US could be defeated in Vietnam with catastrophic reputational loss because it was a different US and a different global context is important.
And so we return to the fundamental error Biden made in spring 2022 when he pushed Zelensky to fight on and make this an existential conflict for American power. He can’t walk away from it cleanly. The best play was to let Ukraine sign a negotiated settlement then and maintain pressure on Russia. But now Biden is in too deep. Which of course leaves the US and the world in a dangerous spot: to what degree will Biden gamble on Ukraine?
I don’t see abandoning Ukraine for a pivot to China. Too much personal prestige is involved and Biden’s state department are Russia hawks first and less concerned about China at a personal opinion level.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 21 2023 17:53 utc | 22

When idiot Biden forces Putin to use tactical nukes, Biden will demand America and Europe respond in kind, then we will see the globalists in Europe slink back to their pedophile parties.

Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:53 utc | 23

When idiot Biden forces Putin to use tactical nukes, Biden will demand America and Europe respond in kind, then we will see the globalists in Europe slink back to their pedophile parties.

Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:53 utc | 24

I think it is a correct assumption that most of the propaganda cope is intended for the domestic USA audience and perhaps some of the EU. There are also a few other spheres that are tipping out of balance (so to speak) and there is no amount of information control that will prevent them from becoming apparent to all but the most brainwashed denial types. When this happens it is often a trigger for a gargantuan false flag of some sort which will eclipse the current problems and trigger a massive reset across the board. We are entering conditions where that will become increasingly likely.

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 25

I think it is a correct assumption that most of the propaganda cope is intended for the domestic USA audience and perhaps some of the EU. There are also a few other spheres that are tipping out of balance (so to speak) and there is no amount of information control that will prevent them from becoming apparent to all but the most brainwashed denial types. When this happens it is often a trigger for a gargantuan false flag of some sort which will eclipse the current problems and trigger a massive reset across the board. We are entering conditions where that will become increasingly likely.

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 26

Putin should begin a mass immigration effort from regions in Russia to Europe, once 10% of Russia’s population of 15o million stream into Europe things will get interesting.

Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 27

Putin should begin a mass immigration effort from regions in Russia to Europe, once 10% of Russia’s population of 15o million stream into Europe things will get interesting.

Posted by: GaryB | Sep 21 2023 17:55 utc | 28

I personally dont vibe w the 2 factions take. Its just more divide conquer stuff. The SMO in the ukraine was a victory from the start as it was launched based on actual realities and needs as opposed to delusions of grandeur and a manaiacle desire to address ‘beefs’ from a time that predates the Russian revolution.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 21 2023 17:58 utc | 29

I personally dont vibe w the 2 factions take. Its just more divide conquer stuff. The SMO in the ukraine was a victory from the start as it was launched based on actual realities and needs as opposed to delusions of grandeur and a manaiacle desire to address ‘beefs’ from a time that predates the Russian revolution.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 21 2023 17:58 utc | 30

most interesting b.. thank you…
a few things.. was the actions of the usa in syria, afganistan, libya and iraq a defeat?? clearly some in the usa profit from all this death and mayhem…. but regarding the issue of respect for the usa – that is falling rapidly and i am not sure this can be altered… as for biden continuing on, it seems that the whole business is the ukrainegate of tomorrow where biden will be pilloried… the problem is – who to replace him??

Posted by: james | Sep 21 2023 17:58 utc | 31

most interesting b.. thank you…
a few things.. was the actions of the usa in syria, afganistan, libya and iraq a defeat?? clearly some in the usa profit from all this death and mayhem…. but regarding the issue of respect for the usa – that is falling rapidly and i am not sure this can be altered… as for biden continuing on, it seems that the whole business is the ukrainegate of tomorrow where biden will be pilloried… the problem is – who to replace him??

Posted by: james | Sep 21 2023 17:58 utc | 32

Strange how Brenner overlooks the most obvious course of action:
Double down.
The Bidens are hip deep in Ukrainian corruption, and the Hair-Sniffer-in-Chief is facing not only an election campaign but a profoundly hostile Republican House of Representatives. He can’t afford to lose this one.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 21 2023 17:58 utc | 33

Strange how Brenner overlooks the most obvious course of action:
Double down.
The Bidens are hip deep in Ukrainian corruption, and the Hair-Sniffer-in-Chief is facing not only an election campaign but a profoundly hostile Republican House of Representatives. He can’t afford to lose this one.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 21 2023 17:58 utc | 34

How Will The Biden Administration Cope With Another Defeat …
No problem for Joe … in his 50+ years doing American lacking foreign policy the wars have been neoconned defeats … Joe personally has a long losing streak after 9/11 … w one foot in the grave, who cares … Zelenskyy and the UA will implode.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 21 2023 17:59 utc | 35

How Will The Biden Administration Cope With Another Defeat …
No problem for Joe … in his 50+ years doing American lacking foreign policy the wars have been neoconned defeats … Joe personally has a long losing streak after 9/11 … w one foot in the grave, who cares … Zelenskyy and the UA will implode.

Posted by: Oui | Sep 21 2023 17:59 utc | 36

Talking about the pivot toward China and rattling sabres of various sorts is all well and good but just how can these remedial “brain trust” geniuses even remotely model this as being remotely possible?! China already demonstrated in real time exactly what they would do in the case of Taiwan: Blockade it and wait for more sensible politicians to be installed. The USA Pacific fleet is in no position to enforce anything in Chinas territorial waters. They cannot defend against a Sunburn much less a Brahmos missile! Their vaunted patriot system just got trounced in Kiev, as well as a slew of other NATO weapons. As I have said before: Metal talks and Bullshit walks. Sure they can attmept to sabotage and destroy as they always do, but something tells me that the general response from the ROW is going to be less “passive” than it has been in the past…..

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 21 2023 18:02 utc | 37

Talking about the pivot toward China and rattling sabres of various sorts is all well and good but just how can these remedial “brain trust” geniuses even remotely model this as being remotely possible?! China already demonstrated in real time exactly what they would do in the case of Taiwan: Blockade it and wait for more sensible politicians to be installed. The USA Pacific fleet is in no position to enforce anything in Chinas territorial waters. They cannot defend against a Sunburn much less a Brahmos missile! Their vaunted patriot system just got trounced in Kiev, as well as a slew of other NATO weapons. As I have said before: Metal talks and Bullshit walks. Sure they can attmept to sabotage and destroy as they always do, but something tells me that the general response from the ROW is going to be less “passive” than it has been in the past…..

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 21 2023 18:02 utc | 38

Biden will be fine. He’s not going to lose any votes because of Ukraine. Remember that things couldn’t have looked worse for the democrats before the midterms, and they survived.

Posted by: catdog | Sep 21 2023 18:05 utc | 39

Biden will be fine. He’s not going to lose any votes because of Ukraine. Remember that things couldn’t have looked worse for the democrats before the midterms, and they survived.

Posted by: catdog | Sep 21 2023 18:05 utc | 40

It will be the stages of grief. Denial, blame, anger etc. Zelensky will eventually be “exposed” for the crimes they’ve helped him commit all along. Maybe zaluzhny gets to steer the sinking ship or maybe someone not so public.
It’s all over but the crying

Posted by: Cresty | Sep 21 2023 18:06 utc | 41

It will be the stages of grief. Denial, blame, anger etc. Zelensky will eventually be “exposed” for the crimes they’ve helped him commit all along. Maybe zaluzhny gets to steer the sinking ship or maybe someone not so public.
It’s all over but the crying

Posted by: Cresty | Sep 21 2023 18:06 utc | 42

Biden is not a cypher but a profoundly corrupt product of the, profoundly corrupt, political system. It doesn’t matter that he has no ideas of his own because he never did- for him politics is about winning elections and making money out of office. In a word he is a Clinton Democrat.
The answer lies in our hands, regardless of whether we are Americans or otherwise inclined. Toppling this system begins at the individual level and leads directly to community involvement: we simply have to start a movement from the bottom upwards.
On Canada, I believe, this begins with calling for disengagement from NATO and setting out to regain national sovereignty from the US and Vote Bank emigre lobbies (including the Ukrainians, and the Israelis), which dominate Foreign Policy decision making because most Canadians regard foreign policy as being beyond their purview, leaving it to the ‘experts’ (Five Eyes and NATO agents).
The idea is that Foreign and Domestic policies are separate and that domestic matters are much more important. This is the first idea that has to be debunked- as is evident in Europe and the UK an economic crisis bred of the war and exacerbated by sanctions and aggression towards China (and India?) is gradually getting worse. Living standards are falling and will fall further. If people leave this up to the government, much more strongly influenced by both the US and fascistic russo- and sino- phobes, than they are by the distant bleeting of the people (now devoid of anything approaching a free press) things will get much worse.
Tonight I will be taking part in a meeting-calling for Peace- in conservative rural Ontario. If Biden and Trudeau are not trembling they ought to be.
Incidentally one thing that I will be commending to the attention of the people coming to our meeting will be Karlofi’s rendition of Lavrov’s speech to the UN, which is otherwise unavailable in our corrupted media.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 21 2023 18:07 utc | 43

Biden is not a cypher but a profoundly corrupt product of the, profoundly corrupt, political system. It doesn’t matter that he has no ideas of his own because he never did- for him politics is about winning elections and making money out of office. In a word he is a Clinton Democrat.
The answer lies in our hands, regardless of whether we are Americans or otherwise inclined. Toppling this system begins at the individual level and leads directly to community involvement: we simply have to start a movement from the bottom upwards.
On Canada, I believe, this begins with calling for disengagement from NATO and setting out to regain national sovereignty from the US and Vote Bank emigre lobbies (including the Ukrainians, and the Israelis), which dominate Foreign Policy decision making because most Canadians regard foreign policy as being beyond their purview, leaving it to the ‘experts’ (Five Eyes and NATO agents).
The idea is that Foreign and Domestic policies are separate and that domestic matters are much more important. This is the first idea that has to be debunked- as is evident in Europe and the UK an economic crisis bred of the war and exacerbated by sanctions and aggression towards China (and India?) is gradually getting worse. Living standards are falling and will fall further. If people leave this up to the government, much more strongly influenced by both the US and fascistic russo- and sino- phobes, than they are by the distant bleeting of the people (now devoid of anything approaching a free press) things will get much worse.
Tonight I will be taking part in a meeting-calling for Peace- in conservative rural Ontario. If Biden and Trudeau are not trembling they ought to be.
Incidentally one thing that I will be commending to the attention of the people coming to our meeting will be Karlofi’s rendition of Lavrov’s speech to the UN, which is otherwise unavailable in our corrupted media.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 21 2023 18:07 utc | 44

Thanks b , I admit I always feel a bit queasy about Hersh’s sources, a CIA that tells the truth?
He doesn’t get ostracised like Assange or other whistleblowers or hounded like Brand…
Anyway.
What pisses me off most is the UN representatives of countries which have been colonies of various Euro empires.
They are obviously traitors to their own histories and exploited Peoples.
Where will they go now?
What will they say about their massive failure to be on the right side of history?
How can they live with their collusion with xenophobes who have no regard for them.
Especially the Africans.
They will be shunned for the quislings they are , death is too good for them, only a total confiscation of their wealth and privileges will be justice.
The rest of our rat pack of Media, Industry, Bankers, Owners and yes even the majority of our peoples are heading for our new Dark Age. For them it should be daily pillory as they shut us behind a purdah, whilst they jetset with multiple passports.
Licking their wounds, breeding more future natzos, for another attempt at World Domination.
A War with China!
That’s worse than demented!
We can’t even contemplate a full on war with Russia of a few hundred million. Never mind a China of a billion. Well we can have a pretend war but with zero chance of winning conventionally and equally with a MAD nuclear one. Though I am sure there are enough mad natzo general Jack D Ripper types (Milley, Bolton etc.) and many mad professor Dr Strangeloves (Measlyhammer type) and even Mengeles (the list of vaxxer professors is long).
On the other hand bring it on! Having a million Chinese boots ready to liberate us from our fascist regimes will probably end the madness of the ages and we can have an equitable old age without worries. I’m willing to learn a bit of Chinese and Russian to get by.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 21 2023 18:07 utc | 45

Thanks b , I admit I always feel a bit queasy about Hersh’s sources, a CIA that tells the truth?
He doesn’t get ostracised like Assange or other whistleblowers or hounded like Brand…
Anyway.
What pisses me off most is the UN representatives of countries which have been colonies of various Euro empires.
They are obviously traitors to their own histories and exploited Peoples.
Where will they go now?
What will they say about their massive failure to be on the right side of history?
How can they live with their collusion with xenophobes who have no regard for them.
Especially the Africans.
They will be shunned for the quislings they are , death is too good for them, only a total confiscation of their wealth and privileges will be justice.
The rest of our rat pack of Media, Industry, Bankers, Owners and yes even the majority of our peoples are heading for our new Dark Age. For them it should be daily pillory as they shut us behind a purdah, whilst they jetset with multiple passports.
Licking their wounds, breeding more future natzos, for another attempt at World Domination.
A War with China!
That’s worse than demented!
We can’t even contemplate a full on war with Russia of a few hundred million. Never mind a China of a billion. Well we can have a pretend war but with zero chance of winning conventionally and equally with a MAD nuclear one. Though I am sure there are enough mad natzo general Jack D Ripper types (Milley, Bolton etc.) and many mad professor Dr Strangeloves (Measlyhammer type) and even Mengeles (the list of vaxxer professors is long).
On the other hand bring it on! Having a million Chinese boots ready to liberate us from our fascist regimes will probably end the madness of the ages and we can have an equitable old age without worries. I’m willing to learn a bit of Chinese and Russian to get by.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 21 2023 18:07 utc | 46

I would still like to see evidence of rebellion against the daily slaughter in Ukraine – because it looks unabated. The daily loss of 500 – 1000 men goes on.
There’s a few more surrenders but nothing massive. A few men who fight off conscription gangs. Where’s the fragging? Taken all together, it looks weak – such that there’s no end in sight. The Ukr. military will mutiny? Where? When? Total mobilization is next. Drive them to the contact line and give them bullets at the last moment ( so they won’t commit suicide, supposedly).
There’s an answer to “how long can this go on?”. It’s “Until it can’t go on”. And that’s what we’d like to see.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 21 2023 18:11 utc | 47

I would still like to see evidence of rebellion against the daily slaughter in Ukraine – because it looks unabated. The daily loss of 500 – 1000 men goes on.
There’s a few more surrenders but nothing massive. A few men who fight off conscription gangs. Where’s the fragging? Taken all together, it looks weak – such that there’s no end in sight. The Ukr. military will mutiny? Where? When? Total mobilization is next. Drive them to the contact line and give them bullets at the last moment ( so they won’t commit suicide, supposedly).
There’s an answer to “how long can this go on?”. It’s “Until it can’t go on”. And that’s what we’d like to see.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 21 2023 18:11 utc | 48

Seymour Hersch’s intelligence contact exemplifies the often quoted line :
If it were not for double standards, the U.S.A./west would have no standards at all.
How about feeling disgust at U.S. presidents for Yugoslavia, irag, Lybia and Syria to name but a few?
Or maybe it’s because Russia is showing up the U.S. and NATO weaponry for the rubbish it is when confronted by a peer adversary.
The west started it. Russia will finidh it. Time for the infantile western politik to grow up.

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 49

Seymour Hersch’s intelligence contact exemplifies the often quoted line :
If it were not for double standards, the U.S.A./west would have no standards at all.
How about feeling disgust at U.S. presidents for Yugoslavia, irag, Lybia and Syria to name but a few?
Or maybe it’s because Russia is showing up the U.S. and NATO weaponry for the rubbish it is when confronted by a peer adversary.
The west started it. Russia will finidh it. Time for the infantile western politik to grow up.

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 50

Amelikan elites are ahistorical so cannot recognize imperialist overreach until smacked in the face. Not one yankee doodle in a million has read Mackinder or even The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius detailing the conversion of the Roman Republic into a blood thirsty degenerate despotic empire. Or even read Gibbon’s classic Decline and Fall. Payback is a bitch…..as the yankee doodles are about to discover. The chances of a decadent effeminate island imperialist Amelika conquering (or even penetrating) the World Island are nil. Mackinder is now smirking from the great beyond.

Posted by: 24ouncer | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 51

Amelikan elites are ahistorical so cannot recognize imperialist overreach until smacked in the face. Not one yankee doodle in a million has read Mackinder or even The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius detailing the conversion of the Roman Republic into a blood thirsty degenerate despotic empire. Or even read Gibbon’s classic Decline and Fall. Payback is a bitch…..as the yankee doodles are about to discover. The chances of a decadent effeminate island imperialist Amelika conquering (or even penetrating) the World Island are nil. Mackinder is now smirking from the great beyond.

Posted by: 24ouncer | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 52

Indeed. Still, it ain’t over until it’s over. Some thoughts:
1. As others have pointed out, the military industrial complex has made and is continuing to make massive amounts of cash. Mission accomplished! How is this failure, for the people in charge? And sure, living standards for the average person are falling, but all this asset price inflation is boosting the bottom line of the elites.
2. Perhaps Ukraine will hunker down in a defensive posture, launch increasingly nasty attacks in Russia proper, and dare Russia to launch a massive “big arrow” attack where the advantage will shift back to Ukraine. Ukraine can be supplied with long range missiles indefinitely and keep launching them at Russia even if Ukraine itself is turned into a hostile moonscape.
3. If the western elites have used up Ukraine in attacking Russia, perhaps that’s just the opening move. Maybe the west will manage to corrupt the leadership of some outer countries – Poland, Georgia, whatever – and go for round 2.
4. Of course, as the United States is being invaded by the third world, all of this is largely moot to me.

Posted by: TG | Sep 21 2023 18:19 utc | 53

Indeed. Still, it ain’t over until it’s over. Some thoughts:
1. As others have pointed out, the military industrial complex has made and is continuing to make massive amounts of cash. Mission accomplished! How is this failure, for the people in charge? And sure, living standards for the average person are falling, but all this asset price inflation is boosting the bottom line of the elites.
2. Perhaps Ukraine will hunker down in a defensive posture, launch increasingly nasty attacks in Russia proper, and dare Russia to launch a massive “big arrow” attack where the advantage will shift back to Ukraine. Ukraine can be supplied with long range missiles indefinitely and keep launching them at Russia even if Ukraine itself is turned into a hostile moonscape.
3. If the western elites have used up Ukraine in attacking Russia, perhaps that’s just the opening move. Maybe the west will manage to corrupt the leadership of some outer countries – Poland, Georgia, whatever – and go for round 2.
4. Of course, as the United States is being invaded by the third world, all of this is largely moot to me.

Posted by: TG | Sep 21 2023 18:19 utc | 54

The Ukrainian side is run by media oligarchs put in power by media disinformation. They seem to think that all is required to achieve an aim is to ‘win the narrative battle’ (ie: lie). After all, this is what brought them to power. A series of lies that persuaded that the government that was taking a better offer from Moscow was ‘selling them out’.
Unfortunately, lying is their only ability. The Ukrainian soldiers have laid down their lives, limbs and minds for lies. The Ukrainian people have suffered for lies. At some point, these lies will be exposed and the Ukrainians will have the choice of either doubling down on the lies or punishing those who lied to them.

Posted by: Jim | Sep 21 2023 18:20 utc | 55

The Ukrainian side is run by media oligarchs put in power by media disinformation. They seem to think that all is required to achieve an aim is to ‘win the narrative battle’ (ie: lie). After all, this is what brought them to power. A series of lies that persuaded that the government that was taking a better offer from Moscow was ‘selling them out’.
Unfortunately, lying is their only ability. The Ukrainian soldiers have laid down their lives, limbs and minds for lies. The Ukrainian people have suffered for lies. At some point, these lies will be exposed and the Ukrainians will have the choice of either doubling down on the lies or punishing those who lied to them.

Posted by: Jim | Sep 21 2023 18:20 utc | 56

The attrition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the “Surovikin Line” may work for now

Russin strategies have been easily decipherable since the initial pullback from Kiev. Western ‘experts’ who read a few books about war and have convinced themselves of their own superiority have been telling us how wrong-headed the clearly effective Russian approach was. Seems one side was correct. Myself I’m not convinces any offensive will come..more like a liberation of territory following state collapse.
On topic we are at a dangerous inflection point. Ironically it is the potential of war with China that is preventing WW3 from starting, in my view. Maerica doesn’t know how to accept loss and animals are at their most dangerous when cornered.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 21 2023 18:22 utc | 57

The attrition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the “Surovikin Line” may work for now

Russin strategies have been easily decipherable since the initial pullback from Kiev. Western ‘experts’ who read a few books about war and have convinced themselves of their own superiority have been telling us how wrong-headed the clearly effective Russian approach was. Seems one side was correct. Myself I’m not convinces any offensive will come..more like a liberation of territory following state collapse.
On topic we are at a dangerous inflection point. Ironically it is the potential of war with China that is preventing WW3 from starting, in my view. Maerica doesn’t know how to accept loss and animals are at their most dangerous when cornered.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 21 2023 18:22 utc | 58

Remember that, in the Nuland/Pyatt 2014 phone conversation, it was said Biden was willing to make some calls and pass out “atta boys” to those working against the Yanukovych government. Biden was involved in this debacle from the very beginning. It’s hard to see him giving up on it now. He’s an old man, can’t let the cold war go. And he’s a danger to the world.

Posted by: Cesar Jeopardy | Sep 21 2023 18:23 utc | 59

Remember that, in the Nuland/Pyatt 2014 phone conversation, it was said Biden was willing to make some calls and pass out “atta boys” to those working against the Yanukovych government. Biden was involved in this debacle from the very beginning. It’s hard to see him giving up on it now. He’s an old man, can’t let the cold war go. And he’s a danger to the world.

Posted by: Cesar Jeopardy | Sep 21 2023 18:23 utc | 60

Loss? The United States/NATO don’t see Ukraine losing at all. In fact, the US is sending more equipment and about 24 billion in funds soon :
https://insiderpaper.com/biden-to-announce-significant-air-defense-capabilities-for-ukraine-white-house/

Posted by: bored | Sep 21 2023 18:26 utc | 61

Loss? The United States/NATO don’t see Ukraine losing at all. In fact, the US is sending more equipment and about 24 billion in funds soon :
https://insiderpaper.com/biden-to-announce-significant-air-defense-capabilities-for-ukraine-white-house/

Posted by: bored | Sep 21 2023 18:26 utc | 62

Biden just set the trap to provide the exit ramp:
Biden just demanded $24 billion in additional new military aid in the legislation to keep government operating and increase the debt ceiling. He did this while making a UN speech and dropping a dime on Zelinski’s lies in the NYT story.
Biden knows that Republicans will oppose this, so he will use it as a bargaining chip in the deal to raise the debt ceiling.
But he also will use this as cover to blame the Republicans for not funding – and losing – the war.
Exit ramp narrative foundation just laid.

Posted by: bill wolfe | Sep 21 2023 18:30 utc | 63

Biden just set the trap to provide the exit ramp:
Biden just demanded $24 billion in additional new military aid in the legislation to keep government operating and increase the debt ceiling. He did this while making a UN speech and dropping a dime on Zelinski’s lies in the NYT story.
Biden knows that Republicans will oppose this, so he will use it as a bargaining chip in the deal to raise the debt ceiling.
But he also will use this as cover to blame the Republicans for not funding – and losing – the war.
Exit ramp narrative foundation just laid.

Posted by: bill wolfe | Sep 21 2023 18:30 utc | 64

The effect? Loss of world dominance. The USA’s reputation and standing in the world has been utterly ruined. This ‘destroy Russia’ war, instigated and funded by cabal in US, has left people all over the world in no doubt, the extent of insidious evil driving the governments of the west, and includes devil groups such as WEF and demon’garchs such as Soros, Gates, Bezos etc. This cabal now has the blood of three quarters of a million folks in Ukraine / Russia on its hands. This does not include the blood on their hands of the Russian revolution, which resulted in the death of millions. Let’s not even get started on Libya, Iraq, Palestine, Baltics.

Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Sep 21 2023 18:31 utc | 65

The effect? Loss of world dominance. The USA’s reputation and standing in the world has been utterly ruined. This ‘destroy Russia’ war, instigated and funded by cabal in US, has left people all over the world in no doubt, the extent of insidious evil driving the governments of the west, and includes devil groups such as WEF and demon’garchs such as Soros, Gates, Bezos etc. This cabal now has the blood of three quarters of a million folks in Ukraine / Russia on its hands. This does not include the blood on their hands of the Russian revolution, which resulted in the death of millions. Let’s not even get started on Libya, Iraq, Palestine, Baltics.

Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Sep 21 2023 18:31 utc | 66

I think, instead of pivoting to China immediately, they’re going to turn to Latin America (not explicitly the southern border) like so:
– keep fanning the nativist hate of the migrants by leaving the border open, with campaigns to recruit Venezeulans especially to make the trip;
– give temporary work permits to the migrants who make it, esp those who were part of the country-specific recruitment campaigns;
– after Sheinbaum is elected in Mexico, ramp up the ‘Let’s Bomb The Cartels’ campaign;
– give the landed migrants a path to rapid citizenship by military service in the southern campaigns
The ‘war distraction’ will be against “the cartels causing the migrant invasion” and give the military and military manufacturers time to practice and replenish stocks. China will be saved for post-2028.

Posted by: super extra | Sep 21 2023 18:33 utc | 67

I think, instead of pivoting to China immediately, they’re going to turn to Latin America (not explicitly the southern border) like so:
– keep fanning the nativist hate of the migrants by leaving the border open, with campaigns to recruit Venezeulans especially to make the trip;
– give temporary work permits to the migrants who make it, esp those who were part of the country-specific recruitment campaigns;
– after Sheinbaum is elected in Mexico, ramp up the ‘Let’s Bomb The Cartels’ campaign;
– give the landed migrants a path to rapid citizenship by military service in the southern campaigns
The ‘war distraction’ will be against “the cartels causing the migrant invasion” and give the military and military manufacturers time to practice and replenish stocks. China will be saved for post-2028.

Posted by: super extra | Sep 21 2023 18:33 utc | 68

Konami@2…. Obama handed off the Ukraine file to Biden, all future money trails of graft from the Ukraine end in the White House with Mr 10%. How much is the graft from transit fees? Enough to start a war over to get them back? Enough to start a war to partition Russia and secure her resources……still for sale to the Chinese…..bidness you know. In for a gallon, in for a tanker…….
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2023 18:36 utc | 69

Konami@2…. Obama handed off the Ukraine file to Biden, all future money trails of graft from the Ukraine end in the White House with Mr 10%. How much is the graft from transit fees? Enough to start a war over to get them back? Enough to start a war to partition Russia and secure her resources……still for sale to the Chinese…..bidness you know. In for a gallon, in for a tanker…….
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 21 2023 18:36 utc | 70

The attrition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the “Surovikin Line” may work for now, but at some point Russia will have to launch an offensive. And there are still many things that must be improved in the Russian Armed Forces before an offensive can succeed with acceptable losses.
Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 17:38 utc | 4

I find the above useless rhetoric…..
More useful…..
A discussion of the improvements (sic) needed for Russian success in an offensive…
Together with….
The credentials of the protagonist…. supporting the assertions…
BECAUSE….
I’m of the opinion the Russians won’t move until they are convinced the Ukie military machine is on the ropes…
AND….
Commenters… please explain why the Russians should risk all and act sooner…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 21 2023 18:38 utc | 71

The attrition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the “Surovikin Line” may work for now, but at some point Russia will have to launch an offensive. And there are still many things that must be improved in the Russian Armed Forces before an offensive can succeed with acceptable losses.
Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 17:38 utc | 4

I find the above useless rhetoric…..
More useful…..
A discussion of the improvements (sic) needed for Russian success in an offensive…
Together with….
The credentials of the protagonist…. supporting the assertions…
BECAUSE….
I’m of the opinion the Russians won’t move until they are convinced the Ukie military machine is on the ropes…
AND….
Commenters… please explain why the Russians should risk all and act sooner…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 21 2023 18:38 utc | 72

Hopefully, the absolute realisation that Ukraine has been defeated will affect the Biden regime and all the neocons so badly that they all decide to take a cyanide pill each and at the same time on the front lawn of the White House and commit suicide while been viewed and streamed throughout the world next Monday morning just before I head out the door to work.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 21 2023 18:40 utc | 73

Hopefully, the absolute realisation that Ukraine has been defeated will affect the Biden regime and all the neocons so badly that they all decide to take a cyanide pill each and at the same time on the front lawn of the White House and commit suicide while been viewed and streamed throughout the world next Monday morning just before I head out the door to work.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 21 2023 18:40 utc | 74

I would like to know which Michael Brenner is quoted as per the Consortium News?
There are more than one that come up in a net search. ie
Michael Brenner (born 4 January 1964) is a German historian
Michael J. Brenner
Professor Emeritus of International Affairs, University of Pittsburgh
Michael Brenner
Distinguished Professor of History and Abensohn Chair in Israel Studies
Department of History
I always like to check sources if possible in order to assess the value of their input.
I used to visit Consortium News regularly and considered it a good source when it’s founder Robert Parry was still alive, but after he passed away the heirs to the site didn’t impress me much. Their unwarranted attack on Robert Fisk after he died was the ultimate of journalistic cowardice in my view.
Attacking a man who was one of a very few who still went to front line areas to form his reports, was indeed most uncalled for. Fisk lived in Lebanon for a long time and reported on the Syrian proxy war. He did so by striking an accord with Assad’s people so he wouldn’t suffer the same fate as some other freelance journalists who got too close to the West’s good rebels who often kidnapped them, held them for ransom or simply disposed of them.
Syria wasn’t Fisk’s first dance either..I miss him.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 18:44 utc | 75

I would like to know which Michael Brenner is quoted as per the Consortium News?
There are more than one that come up in a net search. ie
Michael Brenner (born 4 January 1964) is a German historian
Michael J. Brenner
Professor Emeritus of International Affairs, University of Pittsburgh
Michael Brenner
Distinguished Professor of History and Abensohn Chair in Israel Studies
Department of History
I always like to check sources if possible in order to assess the value of their input.
I used to visit Consortium News regularly and considered it a good source when it’s founder Robert Parry was still alive, but after he passed away the heirs to the site didn’t impress me much. Their unwarranted attack on Robert Fisk after he died was the ultimate of journalistic cowardice in my view.
Attacking a man who was one of a very few who still went to front line areas to form his reports, was indeed most uncalled for. Fisk lived in Lebanon for a long time and reported on the Syrian proxy war. He did so by striking an accord with Assad’s people so he wouldn’t suffer the same fate as some other freelance journalists who got too close to the West’s good rebels who often kidnapped them, held them for ransom or simply disposed of them.
Syria wasn’t Fisk’s first dance either..I miss him.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 18:44 utc | 76

Something that so far in this thread is not getting enough attention is the fact that the US is heading into an election cycle. There’s a significant faction in the Republican party that is critical of the war itself, and also will play the debacle off the Hunter scandal. The administration will try to attack that Repub faction, and the Repubs generally, for being too weak in support for Ukraine. While the sheer impact of the Ukraine failure at a mass level will not be completely reworked and muffled as this political combat plays out, it will distract from awareness of its real geopolitical impact. As far as China goes, both sides have incentives to push that conflict, and the Repubs will try to bang on it to deflect the charge that they are unwilling to “defend the national interest” in central Europe.

Posted by: dadooronron | Sep 21 2023 18:47 utc | 77

Something that so far in this thread is not getting enough attention is the fact that the US is heading into an election cycle. There’s a significant faction in the Republican party that is critical of the war itself, and also will play the debacle off the Hunter scandal. The administration will try to attack that Repub faction, and the Repubs generally, for being too weak in support for Ukraine. While the sheer impact of the Ukraine failure at a mass level will not be completely reworked and muffled as this political combat plays out, it will distract from awareness of its real geopolitical impact. As far as China goes, both sides have incentives to push that conflict, and the Repubs will try to bang on it to deflect the charge that they are unwilling to “defend the national interest” in central Europe.

Posted by: dadooronron | Sep 21 2023 18:47 utc | 78

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 18:44 utc | 38
It’s the guy from Pittsburgh.
I also miss Fisk and his insights.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 21 2023 18:49 utc | 79

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 18:44 utc | 38
It’s the guy from Pittsburgh.
I also miss Fisk and his insights.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 21 2023 18:49 utc | 80

A major part of the debacle and humiliation the West is currently facing in everything, from military to economics and international politics is the inherent dishonesty of its quoted spoke-persons. Seymour Hersh’s former spy, for example, laid the blame for the war in Ukraine on Putin. Isn’t that rich?
And Michael Brenner wrote of “Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine.” Arrant nonsense! Russian Army is equipped with weapons far superior to anything the NATO has in its stock!
When you have shyster “influencers” like the ones quoted above, being touted as some kind of voices of reason you don’t need to dig further to unearth the cause of the decay in the society.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 21 2023 18:50 utc | 81

A major part of the debacle and humiliation the West is currently facing in everything, from military to economics and international politics is the inherent dishonesty of its quoted spoke-persons. Seymour Hersh’s former spy, for example, laid the blame for the war in Ukraine on Putin. Isn’t that rich?
And Michael Brenner wrote of “Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine.” Arrant nonsense! Russian Army is equipped with weapons far superior to anything the NATO has in its stock!
When you have shyster “influencers” like the ones quoted above, being touted as some kind of voices of reason you don’t need to dig further to unearth the cause of the decay in the society.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 21 2023 18:50 utc | 82

@Doctor Eleven #29:

Myself I’m not convinces any offensive will come..more like a liberation of territory following state collapse.

Yeah, thanks, I still remember how we were told that the Ukraine was going to collapse any minute now—in 2015, in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020, in 2021… While in reality the regime has been successfully brainwashing Ukrainians with ever increasing levels of Russophobia and arming to its teeth, preparing to crush Donbass. Truth is, there won’t be any collapse while the West continues to subsidize the Ukraine. With 100,000 KIA/year the regime can stay in power for decades. The demilitarization and de-Nazification of the Ukraine will have to be achieved by force.

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 18:52 utc | 83

@Doctor Eleven #29:

Myself I’m not convinces any offensive will come..more like a liberation of territory following state collapse.

Yeah, thanks, I still remember how we were told that the Ukraine was going to collapse any minute now—in 2015, in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020, in 2021… While in reality the regime has been successfully brainwashing Ukrainians with ever increasing levels of Russophobia and arming to its teeth, preparing to crush Donbass. Truth is, there won’t be any collapse while the West continues to subsidize the Ukraine. With 100,000 KIA/year the regime can stay in power for decades. The demilitarization and de-Nazification of the Ukraine will have to be achieved by force.

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 18:52 utc | 84

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 25
Agents not senior enough to speak their true opinions, won’t, because they don’t want to risk the cushy job and pension

Posted by: Cresty | Sep 21 2023 18:52 utc | 85

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Sep 21 2023 18:14 utc | 25
Agents not senior enough to speak their true opinions, won’t, because they don’t want to risk the cushy job and pension

Posted by: Cresty | Sep 21 2023 18:52 utc | 86

Excellent piece. Best barkeep in the west!
The easiest thing to do is blame it all on the liar Zelinsky (he lied to us) and Biden (an old man taken advantage of by the evil Zelinsky). They did a lighter version of this on Bush and Co. in the wake of the Iraq debacle.
Then of course they arrange Zelinsky’s death and put some other lesser known Nazi in his place who can stay on the new message. If Biden resists (he may be compromised and driven by Zelinsky) his arranged death could be credibly attributed to age related health issues.
With these two scapegoated and out of the picture, the new victory narrative of stopping the Russian invasion of Europe could be rolled out and the whole disaster painted as a painful but ultimately necessary operation.
If there are any sane people left in the imperial government, they would be wise to elevate someone like Mershheimer to the status of the court foreign policy intellectual for a new era, ala Brezinsky in the post cold war boom period, then at least take a few years break to think things out a bit before running full retard at China.
That is of course if the visions of their certain doom haven’t driven them all barking mad….

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 21 2023 18:54 utc | 87

Excellent piece. Best barkeep in the west!
The easiest thing to do is blame it all on the liar Zelinsky (he lied to us) and Biden (an old man taken advantage of by the evil Zelinsky). They did a lighter version of this on Bush and Co. in the wake of the Iraq debacle.
Then of course they arrange Zelinsky’s death and put some other lesser known Nazi in his place who can stay on the new message. If Biden resists (he may be compromised and driven by Zelinsky) his arranged death could be credibly attributed to age related health issues.
With these two scapegoated and out of the picture, the new victory narrative of stopping the Russian invasion of Europe could be rolled out and the whole disaster painted as a painful but ultimately necessary operation.
If there are any sane people left in the imperial government, they would be wise to elevate someone like Mershheimer to the status of the court foreign policy intellectual for a new era, ala Brezinsky in the post cold war boom period, then at least take a few years break to think things out a bit before running full retard at China.
That is of course if the visions of their certain doom haven’t driven them all barking mad….

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 21 2023 18:54 utc | 88

I place my bets on coping by escalation (or doubling down as Malenkov tell’s it) which we have seen the past 1,5 years.
The combination of those four scenario’s seem very optimistic to me.
Given the magnitude of a defeat and what has already been sacrificed by the EU I’m betting on an escalation that pales the Moskva, Nord Stream, Kerch bridge, Kakhovka dam, the assassinations and attacks on the Zaporizhzhia NPP, … . For now I also don’t see the US empire able to goad China into a war where economic and diplomatic ties would be cut with let’s say Europe which is already in a very bad shape and needs cheap goods to keep the populace docile. Apps and Netflix just won’t do it.

Posted by: xor | Sep 21 2023 18:56 utc | 89

I place my bets on coping by escalation (or doubling down as Malenkov tell’s it) which we have seen the past 1,5 years.
The combination of those four scenario’s seem very optimistic to me.
Given the magnitude of a defeat and what has already been sacrificed by the EU I’m betting on an escalation that pales the Moskva, Nord Stream, Kerch bridge, Kakhovka dam, the assassinations and attacks on the Zaporizhzhia NPP, … . For now I also don’t see the US empire able to goad China into a war where economic and diplomatic ties would be cut with let’s say Europe which is already in a very bad shape and needs cheap goods to keep the populace docile. Apps and Netflix just won’t do it.

Posted by: xor | Sep 21 2023 18:56 utc | 90

Bevin22. Zelinsky just sprayed shit all over poland. Wont be long before even the most hardcore canadian polish immigrant poulation changes their mind. This will help w conservative canada 100%.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 21 2023 19:00 utc | 91

Bevin22. Zelinsky just sprayed shit all over poland. Wont be long before even the most hardcore canadian polish immigrant poulation changes their mind. This will help w conservative canada 100%.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 21 2023 19:00 utc | 92

Vietnam loss was acknowledged when Johnson fired McNamara
Ukraine loss will be acknowledged when Biden (or whoever) fires Nuland.

Posted by: earl | Sep 21 2023 19:01 utc | 93

Vietnam loss was acknowledged when Johnson fired McNamara
Ukraine loss will be acknowledged when Biden (or whoever) fires Nuland.

Posted by: earl | Sep 21 2023 19:01 utc | 94

@Dr. George W Oprisko #36:

Commenters… please explain why the Russians should risk all and act sooner…

I didn’t say that Russia should move sooner than it is ready. I said that there are many things that Russia should do to get ready so it can move.

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 19:02 utc | 95

@Dr. George W Oprisko #36:

Commenters… please explain why the Russians should risk all and act sooner…

I didn’t say that Russia should move sooner than it is ready. I said that there are many things that Russia should do to get ready so it can move.

Posted by: S | Sep 21 2023 19:02 utc | 96

Those who led us into disaster must be fired, and new people must set a new course.
It may be too late for Biden to do that, but if he could possibly have time, that is rapidly shrinking away.
To save himself, Biden must defenestrate the neocon cabal who led his Admin into this, “U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Acting Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.”
If Biden picked the right people with the right policy, he might yet still have time to sell it as a better repair of disaster than anything on offer from Trump. However, his limited options are rapidly closing.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Sep 21 2023 19:04 utc | 97

Those who led us into disaster must be fired, and new people must set a new course.
It may be too late for Biden to do that, but if he could possibly have time, that is rapidly shrinking away.
To save himself, Biden must defenestrate the neocon cabal who led his Admin into this, “U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Acting Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.”
If Biden picked the right people with the right policy, he might yet still have time to sell it as a better repair of disaster than anything on offer from Trump. However, his limited options are rapidly closing.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Sep 21 2023 19:04 utc | 98

It’s the guy from Pittsburgh.
I also miss Fisk and his insights.
Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 21 2023 18:49 utc | 40
Thanks, at least now I know where to spend my research time.
Should have added to that post Fisk and Hersh were on the same page, and as if Hersh needed more creds than he had already earned, his Red Line and the Rat Line expose was one of his best. It was completely in step with reporting from the now nationalized Turkish news venue, The Daily Zaman which reported twice on terrorists in Turkey being arrested with propane tanks containing Sarin several weeks before the gas attacks in the suburbs of Damascus that were blamed on Assad’s people.
Their second brief article informed that Turkish police had released the suspects with no further action taken. Which is in keeping with Erodogan’s heavy handed manipulations of the press and support for terrorism that works for his personal agenda.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 19:07 utc | 99

It’s the guy from Pittsburgh.
I also miss Fisk and his insights.
Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 21 2023 18:49 utc | 40
Thanks, at least now I know where to spend my research time.
Should have added to that post Fisk and Hersh were on the same page, and as if Hersh needed more creds than he had already earned, his Red Line and the Rat Line expose was one of his best. It was completely in step with reporting from the now nationalized Turkish news venue, The Daily Zaman which reported twice on terrorists in Turkey being arrested with propane tanks containing Sarin several weeks before the gas attacks in the suburbs of Damascus that were blamed on Assad’s people.
Their second brief article informed that Turkish police had released the suspects with no further action taken. Which is in keeping with Erodogan’s heavy handed manipulations of the press and support for terrorism that works for his personal agenda.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 21 2023 19:07 utc | 100