Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 26, 2023
Hersh Reveals U.S. Motive For Destruction Of Nord Stream Pipelines

Seymour Hersh just published a new piece about the bombing of the Nord Stream pipelines.

When the pipelines were blown up on September 27 2022 I had asked:

Whodunnit? – Facts Related to The Sabotage Attack On The Nord Stream Pipelines

I had collected the various known facts around the incident and they in sum suggested that it had been the U.S. of A.

Seymour Hersh put the same question to some of his intelligence contacts. He was given the same answer.

He now reports on further facts and final motives to trigger the incident.

A YEAR OF LYING ABOUT NORD STREAM
The Biden administration has acknowledged neither its responsibility for the pipeline bombing nor the purpose of the sabotage
(archived version)

At the core of Hersh's report is this:

It was no surprise to the agency’s secret planning group when on January 27, 2022, the assured and confident Nuland, then undersecretary of state for political affairs, stridently warned Putin that if he invaded Ukraine, as he clearly was planning to, that “one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.” The line attracted enormous attention, but the words preceding the threat did not. The official State Department transcript shows that she preceded her threat by saying that with regard to the pipeline: “We continue to have very strong and clear conversations with our German allies.”

The German leader was considered then—and now—by some members of the CIA team to be fully aware of the secret planning underway to destroy the pipelines.

What I did not know then, but was told recently, was that after Biden’s extraordinary public threat to blow up Nord Stream 2, with Scholz standing next to him, the CIA planning group was told by the White House that there would be no immediate attack on the two pipelines, but the group should arrange to plant the necessary bombs and be ready to trigger them “on demand”—after the war began. “It was then that we”—the small planning group that was working in Oslo with the Royal Norwegian Navy and special services on the project—“understood that the attack on the pipelines was not a deterrent because as the war went on we never got the command.”

After Biden’s order to trigger the explosives planted on the pipelines, it took only a short flight with a Norwegian fighter and the dropping of an altered off-the-shelf sonar device at the right spot in the Baltic Sea to get it done. By then the CIA group had long disbanded. By then, too, the official told me: “We realized that the destruction of the two Russian pipelines was not related to the Ukrainian war”—Putin was in the process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts he wanted—“but was part of a neocon political agenda to keep Scholz and Germany, with winter coming up and the pipelines shut down, from getting cold feet and opening up” the shuttered Nord Stream 2. “The White House fear was that Putin would get Germany under his thumb and then he was going to get Poland.”

All of this explains why a routine question I posed a month or so after the bombings to someone with many years in the American intelligence community led me to a truth that no one in America or Germany seems to want to pursue. My question was simple: “Who did it?”

The Biden administration blew up the pipelines but the action had little to do with winning or stopping the war in Ukraine. It resulted from fears in the White House that Germany would waver and turn on the flow of Russia gas—and that Germany and then NATO, for economic reasons, would fall under the sway of Russia and its extensive and inexpensive natural resources. And thus followed the ultimate fear: that America would lose its long-standing primacy in Western Europe.

The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions …

Added:

This is of course related:

Stephen Stapczynski @SStapczynski – 22:47 UTC · Sep 25, 2023

Europe must rely on LNG from the US for decades, said EU’s top energy official 🇪🇺🤝🇺🇸

🚢 “There will be a need for American energy,” said Jørgensen, energy director-general

⚡️ This is one of the strongest signals that the EU needs US LNG well past 2030

ft.com – Top EU energy official says US gas will be needed for decades

Comments

I thought everybody knew this.

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1

I thought everybody knew this.

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 2

I think it’s been clear to anyone with normal IQ that the pipes had been blown by US or, at least, with complicity from NATO. The question is why Germany allowed that?

Posted by: Mario | Sep 26 2023 14:37 utc | 3

I think it’s been clear to anyone with normal IQ that the pipes had been blown by US or, at least, with complicity from NATO. The question is why Germany allowed that?

Posted by: Mario | Sep 26 2023 14:37 utc | 4

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1
Well yeah, but it is nice to have more testimony to that effect.
The interesting question is why is Hersh trotting this out again now?

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 26 2023 14:40 utc | 5

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1
Well yeah, but it is nice to have more testimony to that effect.
The interesting question is why is Hersh trotting this out again now?

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 26 2023 14:40 utc | 6

Actually Shultz doesn’t have to answer anything. The Germans are too stupid and the world is too full of Kool-Aid.
The Hersh conclusion is not new at all. That’s about what many have concluded; N1&2 were bombed to make sure Shultz doesn’t do an about face.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 7

Actually Shultz doesn’t have to answer anything. The Germans are too stupid and the world is too full of Kool-Aid.
The Hersh conclusion is not new at all. That’s about what many have concluded; N1&2 were bombed to make sure Shultz doesn’t do an about face.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 8

“…German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions…”
He will, indeed. But he won’t be alone: there are signs throughout NATO that things are falling apart. The Polish government is calling for the prosecution of the 98 year old SS volunteer whose boots were licked by Trudeau et al. And that is just the beginning- NATO is realising that it is allied not with Ukraine but with the Bandera OUN, who are neither strong nor reliable, and are founded on an ideology which preaches hatred of all foreigners.
Hungary is drawing attention to the persecution of Magyars in Ukraine. And the pro-western governments of Moldava etc are likely to find that, after two years of war and a decade of hostility, the benefits of alliance with the enemies of their natural trading partners have proved to be minimal.
What we are seeing is that all manner of pro US, carefully chosen, educated in America leaders are feeling the ground under their feet shaking as the policies that they pursue become constly to the people they puport to represent.
article by Dsamiel Lazare goes well with Hersh’s.
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1459/investigations-drag-on-and-on/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 9

“…German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions…”
He will, indeed. But he won’t be alone: there are signs throughout NATO that things are falling apart. The Polish government is calling for the prosecution of the 98 year old SS volunteer whose boots were licked by Trudeau et al. And that is just the beginning- NATO is realising that it is allied not with Ukraine but with the Bandera OUN, who are neither strong nor reliable, and are founded on an ideology which preaches hatred of all foreigners.
Hungary is drawing attention to the persecution of Magyars in Ukraine. And the pro-western governments of Moldava etc are likely to find that, after two years of war and a decade of hostility, the benefits of alliance with the enemies of their natural trading partners have proved to be minimal.
What we are seeing is that all manner of pro US, carefully chosen, educated in America leaders are feeling the ground under their feet shaking as the policies that they pursue become constly to the people they puport to represent.
article by Dsamiel Lazare goes well with Hersh’s.
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1459/investigations-drag-on-and-on/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 10

It is nice to have the confirmation from Hersh’s Intelligence sources. However, the motive and the timing correspond with what has been widely believe since September by those with a functioning brain.
Still, it is good that this pops up again now, as in September 2023 more Germans are willing to pose themselves the right questions than this was the case one year ago.

Posted by: Alexander P | Sep 26 2023 14:42 utc | 11

It is nice to have the confirmation from Hersh’s Intelligence sources. However, the motive and the timing correspond with what has been widely believe since September by those with a functioning brain.
Still, it is good that this pops up again now, as in September 2023 more Germans are willing to pose themselves the right questions than this was the case one year ago.

Posted by: Alexander P | Sep 26 2023 14:42 utc | 12

“The Biden administration blew up the pipelines but the action had little to do with winning or stopping the war in Ukraine. It resulted from fears in the White House that Germany would waver and turn on the flow of Russia gas—and that Germany and then NATO, for economic reasons, would fall under the sway of Russia and its extensive and inexpensive natural resources. And thus followed the ultimate fear: that America would lose its long-standing primacy in Western Europe.”
Will Europeans ever wake up?
Who is Europe’s “real” enemy?

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 26 2023 14:42 utc | 13

“The Biden administration blew up the pipelines but the action had little to do with winning or stopping the war in Ukraine. It resulted from fears in the White House that Germany would waver and turn on the flow of Russia gas—and that Germany and then NATO, for economic reasons, would fall under the sway of Russia and its extensive and inexpensive natural resources. And thus followed the ultimate fear: that America would lose its long-standing primacy in Western Europe.”
Will Europeans ever wake up?
Who is Europe’s “real” enemy?

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 26 2023 14:42 utc | 14

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1
Well yeah, but it is nice to have more testimony to that effect.
The interesting question is why is Hersh trotting this out again now?

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 15

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1
Well yeah, but it is nice to have more testimony to that effect.
The interesting question is why is Hersh trotting this out again now?

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 16

Scholz will answer no questions. Who will ask questions? The totally enslaved media? What a laugh.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 17

Scholz will answer no questions. Who will ask questions? The totally enslaved media? What a laugh.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 18

Sorry about the typos- its not dyslexia but.. I’m too cheap to replace my old keyboard with all the characters rubbed off.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:44 utc | 19

Sorry about the typos- its not dyslexia but.. I’m too cheap to replace my old keyboard with all the characters rubbed off.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:44 utc | 20

It’s worrying that European politicians who are well out of their depths even in domestic political problems such as the bankruptcy of Birmingham, still idiotically parrot the CIA and neocon narratives in public for fear of being thought not keeping up. My MP said that the more Putin wanted security, the less he would get it.
But that attitude looks more like an own goal, because European energy security has been demolished by Biden bombing up NS2, and subsidising energy costs is bankrupting Britain.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 26 2023 14:48 utc | 21

It’s worrying that European politicians who are well out of their depths even in domestic political problems such as the bankruptcy of Birmingham, still idiotically parrot the CIA and neocon narratives in public for fear of being thought not keeping up. My MP said that the more Putin wanted security, the less he would get it.
But that attitude looks more like an own goal, because European energy security has been demolished by Biden bombing up NS2, and subsidising energy costs is bankrupting Britain.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 26 2023 14:48 utc | 22

There is still no gas coming out of those pipes. Every day that goes by is another day Europeans can think about who did this. The fake news is going to wear off and when it does people are going to be very angry.

Posted by: chunga | Sep 26 2023 14:50 utc | 23

There is still no gas coming out of those pipes. Every day that goes by is another day Europeans can think about who did this. The fake news is going to wear off and when it does people are going to be very angry.

Posted by: chunga | Sep 26 2023 14:50 utc | 24

>> The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions ..
Unfortunately, no.
Who would ask them? After a five-year war on “fake news”, Berlin and Brussels have established full controll over Internet and media. They control the narrative. A lot of Germans are actually celebrating the destruction of the pipelines, believing that finally, Germany had been liberated from Putins grip.
There are no media left to explain that Germany had already paid for the energy (investment costs for producing and transporting energy have long been split between Germany and Russia, and prices agreed in long term contracts. At levels that left only fairly small profits to Russia.
There are no media left in Germany to explain that the money now thrown over to the US should have been used to build a green energy infrastructure that makes Germany independent not only from foreign suppliers, but from fossil fuel altogether. The money is now gone, and the dream of green energy production dead.
There are no media left to explain that American liquefied gas is actually poison for the planet. The worst source of energy, by far.
And with all mainstream media singing high praises on anything America, with the public invited to hate anything Russian, there is nobody left to ask questions to chancellor Scholz.
Hell, Nobody has even gotten around to asking why there no investigation into who did it. No investigation into to an act of terrorism in the same league as 9/11!

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 26 2023 14:58 utc | 25

>> The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions ..
Unfortunately, no.
Who would ask them? After a five-year war on “fake news”, Berlin and Brussels have established full controll over Internet and media. They control the narrative. A lot of Germans are actually celebrating the destruction of the pipelines, believing that finally, Germany had been liberated from Putins grip.
There are no media left to explain that Germany had already paid for the energy (investment costs for producing and transporting energy have long been split between Germany and Russia, and prices agreed in long term contracts. At levels that left only fairly small profits to Russia.
There are no media left in Germany to explain that the money now thrown over to the US should have been used to build a green energy infrastructure that makes Germany independent not only from foreign suppliers, but from fossil fuel altogether. The money is now gone, and the dream of green energy production dead.
There are no media left to explain that American liquefied gas is actually poison for the planet. The worst source of energy, by far.
And with all mainstream media singing high praises on anything America, with the public invited to hate anything Russian, there is nobody left to ask questions to chancellor Scholz.
Hell, Nobody has even gotten around to asking why there no investigation into who did it. No investigation into to an act of terrorism in the same league as 9/11!

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 26 2023 14:58 utc | 26

American friend of mine living in France near Germany, fairly smart but also Russophobic to the max, believes the German promoted story involving Ukrainians in a small boat.
The pipelines are not buried they were encased in a relatively thin layer of concrete, no match for modern explosives, he says. A small boat could do it, he insists.
He thinks Hersh is past his sell-by date and was always a propagandist anyway. (I’m a Hersh subscriber and think he’s a treasure.)
Friend also thinks Germans are very independent and Germany is not a vassal state or even client state of the USA. Though perhaps not quite as independent as the French.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 26 2023 14:59 utc | 27

American friend of mine living in France near Germany, fairly smart but also Russophobic to the max, believes the German promoted story involving Ukrainians in a small boat.
The pipelines are not buried they were encased in a relatively thin layer of concrete, no match for modern explosives, he says. A small boat could do it, he insists.
He thinks Hersh is past his sell-by date and was always a propagandist anyway. (I’m a Hersh subscriber and think he’s a treasure.)
Friend also thinks Germans are very independent and Germany is not a vassal state or even client state of the USA. Though perhaps not quite as independent as the French.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 26 2023 14:59 utc | 28

i don’t think olaf scholz is going to answer any questions! that is a laugh… no tough questions get asked of politicians today, thanks for corporate run and compliant media!
@ bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 5
i am sorry to say i think you are overly optimistic… i just don’t see it myself..

Posted by: james | Sep 26 2023 15:01 utc | 29

i don’t think olaf scholz is going to answer any questions! that is a laugh… no tough questions get asked of politicians today, thanks for corporate run and compliant media!
@ bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 5
i am sorry to say i think you are overly optimistic… i just don’t see it myself..

Posted by: james | Sep 26 2023 15:01 utc | 30

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 9
Who will ask questions? The totally enslaved media? What a laugh.
A totally enslaved media would’ve buried the story about Hunka, or reported only excuses for the tribute. Instead, the Hunka story has been leading headlines, with stories focused on condemnation of the tribute.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:13 utc | 31

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 9
Who will ask questions? The totally enslaved media? What a laugh.
A totally enslaved media would’ve buried the story about Hunka, or reported only excuses for the tribute. Instead, the Hunka story has been leading headlines, with stories focused on condemnation of the tribute.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:13 utc | 32

@ I thought everybody knew this.
Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1
Yeah, same here. I don’t really see how this is news to anyone either. Particularly when the US, Nato and their neocon masters did everything they could to get the war started, and are all profiting very handsomely regardless of its outcome.
The same goes with Scholz et al. being in on it. Not sure which of his cucked Government or citizenry Scholz will have to answer to exactly: 12 months and barely anyone talks about it in Germany, let alone protests or demands any answers for it.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 26 2023 15:14 utc | 33

@ I thought everybody knew this.
Posted by: Bluedog57 | Sep 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1
Yeah, same here. I don’t really see how this is news to anyone either. Particularly when the US, Nato and their neocon masters did everything they could to get the war started, and are all profiting very handsomely regardless of its outcome.
The same goes with Scholz et al. being in on it. Not sure which of his cucked Government or citizenry Scholz will have to answer to exactly: 12 months and barely anyone talks about it in Germany, let alone protests or demands any answers for it.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 26 2023 15:14 utc | 34

France and Netherlands are also partners in Nord Stream, so they would have to be bought off along with Germany. I have to wonder if the US paid off the French, Dutch, and German investors so that they don’t sue for damages. Maybe the citizenry who have been impacted by the resultant higher gas prices could file a class-action suit against the US government?

Posted by: Explorator | Sep 26 2023 15:14 utc | 35

France and Netherlands are also partners in Nord Stream, so they would have to be bought off along with Germany. I have to wonder if the US paid off the French, Dutch, and German investors so that they don’t sue for damages. Maybe the citizenry who have been impacted by the resultant higher gas prices could file a class-action suit against the US government?

Posted by: Explorator | Sep 26 2023 15:14 utc | 36

@ b who wrote

The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions …

As someone from Germany who has been watching all this unfold, do you really think that Scholz is going to be forced to admit anything?
Who will report it to the world?
You are the alternative media b. It is only you and a few others that are asking serious questions and feeding your barflies with the results.
Do folks really think that all of a sudden the MSM is going to start telling the truth because they are forced to? Who is doing the forcing and how does that work?
The bottom of the cliff is still a long ways off

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 26 2023 15:20 utc | 37

@ b who wrote

The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz will now have to answer some serious questions …

As someone from Germany who has been watching all this unfold, do you really think that Scholz is going to be forced to admit anything?
Who will report it to the world?
You are the alternative media b. It is only you and a few others that are asking serious questions and feeding your barflies with the results.
Do folks really think that all of a sudden the MSM is going to start telling the truth because they are forced to? Who is doing the forcing and how does that work?
The bottom of the cliff is still a long ways off

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 26 2023 15:20 utc | 38

@Explorator | Sep 26 2023 15:14 utc | 19
Their share was half, about 5bn. For such a small amount the investors won’t even dare to comment.

Posted by: rk | Sep 26 2023 15:22 utc | 39

@Explorator | Sep 26 2023 15:14 utc | 19
Their share was half, about 5bn. For such a small amount the investors won’t even dare to comment.

Posted by: rk | Sep 26 2023 15:22 utc | 40

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 26 2023 14:59 utc | 15
American friend of mine living in France near Germany, fairly smart but also Russophobic to the max..He thinks Hersh is past his sell-by date and was always a propagandist anyway.
Does your friend vilify Russian people? Does he think that it wouldn’t matter who was in charge of Russia? He’d need to do these things to be Russophobic.
Hersh is the Linus Pauling of journalism. In the past he reported very important stories such as the My Lai Massacre. But nowadays he reports Vitamin C diets…

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:23 utc | 41

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 26 2023 14:59 utc | 15
American friend of mine living in France near Germany, fairly smart but also Russophobic to the max..He thinks Hersh is past his sell-by date and was always a propagandist anyway.
Does your friend vilify Russian people? Does he think that it wouldn’t matter who was in charge of Russia? He’d need to do these things to be Russophobic.
Hersh is the Linus Pauling of journalism. In the past he reported very important stories such as the My Lai Massacre. But nowadays he reports Vitamin C diets…

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:23 utc | 42

What’s wrong with destruction of Nord Stream? We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.

Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 43

What’s wrong with destruction of Nord Stream? We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.

Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 44

Scholz will answer no questions. Who will ask questions? The totally enslaved media? What a laugh.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 9
##############
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 45

Scholz will answer no questions. Who will ask questions? The totally enslaved media? What a laugh.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 26 2023 14:43 utc | 9
##############
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 46

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 4
N1&2 were bombed to make sure Shultz doesn’t do an about face.
It wasn’t concern about Schulz. Schulz is a US puppet and complicit. It was concern about any future German govt that would not act as a puppet.

Posted by: JT | Sep 26 2023 15:29 utc | 47

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 4
N1&2 were bombed to make sure Shultz doesn’t do an about face.
It wasn’t concern about Schulz. Schulz is a US puppet and complicit. It was concern about any future German govt that would not act as a puppet.

Posted by: JT | Sep 26 2023 15:29 utc | 48

It was “Osama” Biden that did it!

Posted by: Germany’s 9/11 | Sep 26 2023 15:30 utc | 49

It was “Osama” Biden that did it!

Posted by: Germany’s 9/11 | Sep 26 2023 15:30 utc | 50

just as 9/11 had the pearl harbor effect of kicking off and justifying the WOT, the proxy war was provoked to end nord stream, Russia, rearrange the energy map of europe, and galvanize the power of NATO(a paper tiger) because even Trump was discussed pulling US from NATO.

Posted by: annie | Sep 26 2023 15:33 utc | 51

just as 9/11 had the pearl harbor effect of kicking off and justifying the WOT, the proxy war was provoked to end nord stream, Russia, rearrange the energy map of europe, and galvanize the power of NATO(a paper tiger) because even Trump was discussed pulling US from NATO.

Posted by: annie | Sep 26 2023 15:33 utc | 52

We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.
Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 23
###############
Why are you calling them fossil fuels? I thought that theory was debunked.
If you want to reduce energy usage, log off. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2023 15:36 utc | 53

We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.
Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 23
###############
Why are you calling them fossil fuels? I thought that theory was debunked.
If you want to reduce energy usage, log off. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2023 15:36 utc | 54

Seymour Hersh just delivered another nothing burger. Thanks Sy.
Seriously there is nothing new, profound or surprising in anything he has just written, again. It was obvious the day they were blown up who did it and why. Who needed Hersh to remind us what Biden and Nuland had said about the pipelines before they were blown up? Or what everyone in the US from Mcain to Trump has said the decade before them? The motive had been out there forever already. Hersh is merely embellishing it a little giving it a literary polish to create an article so it looks like he has something to say, imo.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 26 2023 15:37 utc | 55

Seymour Hersh just delivered another nothing burger. Thanks Sy.
Seriously there is nothing new, profound or surprising in anything he has just written, again. It was obvious the day they were blown up who did it and why. Who needed Hersh to remind us what Biden and Nuland had said about the pipelines before they were blown up? Or what everyone in the US from Mcain to Trump has said the decade before them? The motive had been out there forever already. Hersh is merely embellishing it a little giving it a literary polish to create an article so it looks like he has something to say, imo.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 26 2023 15:37 utc | 56

The interesting question is why is Hersh trotting this out again now?
today is the 1 year anniversary of the terrorist attack.

Posted by: annie | Sep 26 2023 15:38 utc | 57

The interesting question is why is Hersh trotting this out again now?
today is the 1 year anniversary of the terrorist attack.

Posted by: annie | Sep 26 2023 15:38 utc | 58

wrong with destruction of Nord Stream? We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.
Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 23
Destruction of NS, have nothing to do with cutting fossil fuels. It will require Europe a decade or more to eliminate gas and oil. Meanwhile we are simply buying oil and gas from different producer, and sometimes, indirectly by Russia paying a nice price cap. Note that US sell their LNG in substitution of cheaper piped gas from Russia. LNG is also more CO2 impacting than piped gas.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 26 2023 15:38 utc | 59

wrong with destruction of Nord Stream? We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.
Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 23
Destruction of NS, have nothing to do with cutting fossil fuels. It will require Europe a decade or more to eliminate gas and oil. Meanwhile we are simply buying oil and gas from different producer, and sometimes, indirectly by Russia paying a nice price cap. Note that US sell their LNG in substitution of cheaper piped gas from Russia. LNG is also more CO2 impacting than piped gas.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 26 2023 15:38 utc | 60

A totally enslaved media would’ve buried the story about Hunka, or reported only excuses for the tribute. Instead, the Hunka story has been leading headlines, with stories focused on condemnation of the tribute.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:13 utc | 17
There wasn’t a peep of condemnation until the Jewish Org’s rattled the cage. Then ‘everything’ changed.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 26 2023 15:39 utc | 61

A totally enslaved media would’ve buried the story about Hunka, or reported only excuses for the tribute. Instead, the Hunka story has been leading headlines, with stories focused on condemnation of the tribute.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:13 utc | 17
There wasn’t a peep of condemnation until the Jewish Org’s rattled the cage. Then ‘everything’ changed.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 26 2023 15:39 utc | 62

Trump was discussed pulling US from NATO.
Posted by: annie | Sep 26 2023 15:33 utc | 27
##############
Read “The Art of the Deal” to understand Trump. Everything he says is to manufacture leverage. He doesn’t follow through on much of it. In any relationship, the party that can walk away holds all of the power. And that is the threat Trump was making. Before he said it, no leverage. Once he mentions it, all of the leverage.
Trump is very good at talking. Not so good at following through. He’s quick to blame someone else or fall back on excuses.
Very American. All of the glory, none of the responsibility. Lots of chest beating and front running.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2023 15:40 utc | 63

Trump was discussed pulling US from NATO.
Posted by: annie | Sep 26 2023 15:33 utc | 27
##############
Read “The Art of the Deal” to understand Trump. Everything he says is to manufacture leverage. He doesn’t follow through on much of it. In any relationship, the party that can walk away holds all of the power. And that is the threat Trump was making. Before he said it, no leverage. Once he mentions it, all of the leverage.
Trump is very good at talking. Not so good at following through. He’s quick to blame someone else or fall back on excuses.
Very American. All of the glory, none of the responsibility. Lots of chest beating and front running.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 26 2023 15:40 utc | 64

I still believe Germany will become a puppet nation of Russia.

Posted by: snake | Sep 26 2023 15:44 utc | 65

I still believe Germany will become a puppet nation of Russia.

Posted by: snake | Sep 26 2023 15:44 utc | 66

@ annie | Sep 26 2023 15:33 utc | 27
No. The US want to dismember Russia, tear it apart, collapse it’s economy, and breakup it’s territory into weaker Bantustans more easily controlled so then it’s economic activity and oligarch’s possessions can be taken over by western corporations and banks to the develop their resources there and flood those new smaller nations with IMF loans and western control mechanisms etc.
Nordstream is irrelevant to these bigger issues the US is using the Ukraine for. It’s nothing a minor issue. imv at least. ymmv

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 26 2023 15:45 utc | 67

@ annie | Sep 26 2023 15:33 utc | 27
No. The US want to dismember Russia, tear it apart, collapse it’s economy, and breakup it’s territory into weaker Bantustans more easily controlled so then it’s economic activity and oligarch’s possessions can be taken over by western corporations and banks to the develop their resources there and flood those new smaller nations with IMF loans and western control mechanisms etc.
Nordstream is irrelevant to these bigger issues the US is using the Ukraine for. It’s nothing a minor issue. imv at least. ymmv

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 26 2023 15:45 utc | 68

It will require Europe a decade or more to eliminate gas and oil.
Posted by: Mario | Sep 26 2023 15:38 utc | 31
Can’t wait to see how that plan works for them.

Posted by: rk | Sep 26 2023 15:46 utc | 69

It will require Europe a decade or more to eliminate gas and oil.
Posted by: Mario | Sep 26 2023 15:38 utc | 31
Can’t wait to see how that plan works for them.

Posted by: rk | Sep 26 2023 15:46 utc | 70

Hersh states: “Putin was in the process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts he wanted.“
Why didn’t Hersh state instead that Putin was in process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts that had voted to become part of the Russian Federation?

Posted by: DavidC | Sep 26 2023 15:47 utc | 71

Hersh states: “Putin was in the process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts he wanted.“
Why didn’t Hersh state instead that Putin was in process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts that had voted to become part of the Russian Federation?

Posted by: DavidC | Sep 26 2023 15:47 utc | 72

Will Europeans ever wake up?
Who is Europe’s “real” enemy?
Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 26 2023 14:42 utc | 7
Right now.
The European political class and the EU apparachicks.
There’s nothing but contempt and condescendion apparent in their dealings with people of Europe.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 26 2023 15:47 utc | 73

Will Europeans ever wake up?
Who is Europe’s “real” enemy?
Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 26 2023 14:42 utc | 7
Right now.
The European political class and the EU apparachicks.
There’s nothing but contempt and condescendion apparent in their dealings with people of Europe.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 26 2023 15:47 utc | 74

Actually Shultz doesn’t have to answer anything. The Germans are too stupid and the world is too full of Kool-Aid.
Posted by: Surferket | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 4
Sgt. Shultz and his team aren’t doing so well in the polls these days. Dropped to 3rd place behind the CDU and the right wing AFD. The 3rd member of the traffic light coalition also dropped.
Only the greenies are holding @ 14% which suggests their supporters are either blinded by ideology or they like being told what they want doesn’t matter because Baerbock made a promise to Ukraine and ‘she’ is going to keep her promise. To hell with democracy, whatever that is now.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 26 2023 15:49 utc | 75

Actually Shultz doesn’t have to answer anything. The Germans are too stupid and the world is too full of Kool-Aid.
Posted by: Surferket | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 4
Sgt. Shultz and his team aren’t doing so well in the polls these days. Dropped to 3rd place behind the CDU and the right wing AFD. The 3rd member of the traffic light coalition also dropped.
Only the greenies are holding @ 14% which suggests their supporters are either blinded by ideology or they like being told what they want doesn’t matter because Baerbock made a promise to Ukraine and ‘she’ is going to keep her promise. To hell with democracy, whatever that is now.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 26 2023 15:49 utc | 76

Mike Sheldon continues his investigation into US TIght Oil/Gas Production…
https://www.oilystuff.com/forumstuff/forum-stuff/oily-permian-gas-wells
The chart, From EIA, shows the Permian Basin is getting gassier and gassier.
In it, Permian liquids production peaked at ~ 65% at the end of 2017, declined to < 59 % now... Mike Sheldon suggested in the past that Permian revenue streams are at, or approaching 50% liquids and 50% natgas and NGL's; in some pressure depleted, overdrilled sweet spots liquids is less than 50%. This is a big reason why well economics are declining and, in his opinion, why rig counts are going down, in spite of rising oil prices. If natgas and NGL's prices were to take a 25% jump in 4Q23, say because of winter, rigs would go back to work. In other words, what the Permian tight oil sector needs is higher natgas prices, not higher oil prices. Decreasing percentage of C+C liquids is not a reversible trend and will only get worse. As you think about the future of your oil resources, either in America as a consumer, or overseas as a tight oil importer, don't get sucked back into the BOE bullshit. That is a meaningless metric. Remember, please, that in pressure depletion environs, like shale carbonate SRV's, once bubble point is reached, liquids go down, gas goes up, plateaus for a while, then depletes too...and there is nothing left. The idea that the Permian tight oil play will produce economic volumes of associated gas for LNG exports for decades is very wrong. The APP Basin seems to now be in decline as well. The liquids under discussion are basically gas condensate. This means primarily hydro carbons < C 12, basically good for petro-chemicals and gasoline, with little or no distillate production ( diesel ).

The US CIA/Norwegian Navy destroyed the NordStream pipelines to cut Russian Gas flows into the EU/NATO. Goal was to make EU/NATO dependent upon US Tight Gas to raise US NatGas prices to bail out oil patch..
Looks like within a few years, the resource will be in decline
Then the EU will be on it’s own…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 26 2023 15:50 utc | 77

Mike Sheldon continues his investigation into US TIght Oil/Gas Production…
https://www.oilystuff.com/forumstuff/forum-stuff/oily-permian-gas-wells
The chart, From EIA, shows the Permian Basin is getting gassier and gassier.
In it, Permian liquids production peaked at ~ 65% at the end of 2017, declined to < 59 % now... Mike Sheldon suggested in the past that Permian revenue streams are at, or approaching 50% liquids and 50% natgas and NGL's; in some pressure depleted, overdrilled sweet spots liquids is less than 50%. This is a big reason why well economics are declining and, in his opinion, why rig counts are going down, in spite of rising oil prices. If natgas and NGL's prices were to take a 25% jump in 4Q23, say because of winter, rigs would go back to work. In other words, what the Permian tight oil sector needs is higher natgas prices, not higher oil prices. Decreasing percentage of C+C liquids is not a reversible trend and will only get worse. As you think about the future of your oil resources, either in America as a consumer, or overseas as a tight oil importer, don't get sucked back into the BOE bullshit. That is a meaningless metric. Remember, please, that in pressure depletion environs, like shale carbonate SRV's, once bubble point is reached, liquids go down, gas goes up, plateaus for a while, then depletes too...and there is nothing left. The idea that the Permian tight oil play will produce economic volumes of associated gas for LNG exports for decades is very wrong. The APP Basin seems to now be in decline as well. The liquids under discussion are basically gas condensate. This means primarily hydro carbons < C 12, basically good for petro-chemicals and gasoline, with little or no distillate production ( diesel ).

The US CIA/Norwegian Navy destroyed the NordStream pipelines to cut Russian Gas flows into the EU/NATO. Goal was to make EU/NATO dependent upon US Tight Gas to raise US NatGas prices to bail out oil patch..
Looks like within a few years, the resource will be in decline
Then the EU will be on it’s own…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 26 2023 15:50 utc | 78

An illustrative example to what Kissinger himself stated, how being an ally to the USA is fatal.
Any more deluded Central & Eastern Europeans willing to roll the dice with the USA? Germany has been cowed and complacent for a few decades, gleefully being the janitor with faith in a retirement pension (to be soon siphoned off). Georgia already tried its luck. Ukraine is apparently being roughed up in the alley for owing money to the house casino. Armenia seems to be at the table because they think they’re special, or at least their bought elites do. Poland for the first time might balk at a bad idea, not wanting to be roughed up in the alley anymore like Ukraine, but it’s still too early to tell. Feel free to add more to the list and share with others!
Anyone else terminally stupid and wanting to try to be the USA government’s friend? Come, trust us! Our word is our bond! You’ll know you can trust us by our respected treaties! Just ask our Natives! 🙂
(If you really want to help us Americans, stop being such fucking naive marks. You’re dealing with criminal thugs who lord over us. Stop being easy targets feeding their rapine. Grow a spine and tell us no — on everything! We need these S.O.B.s to run out of easy loot so we can bring them down over here. >:( The gravy train’s derailment depends on you!)

Posted by: titmouse | Sep 26 2023 15:52 utc | 79

An illustrative example to what Kissinger himself stated, how being an ally to the USA is fatal.
Any more deluded Central & Eastern Europeans willing to roll the dice with the USA? Germany has been cowed and complacent for a few decades, gleefully being the janitor with faith in a retirement pension (to be soon siphoned off). Georgia already tried its luck. Ukraine is apparently being roughed up in the alley for owing money to the house casino. Armenia seems to be at the table because they think they’re special, or at least their bought elites do. Poland for the first time might balk at a bad idea, not wanting to be roughed up in the alley anymore like Ukraine, but it’s still too early to tell. Feel free to add more to the list and share with others!
Anyone else terminally stupid and wanting to try to be the USA government’s friend? Come, trust us! Our word is our bond! You’ll know you can trust us by our respected treaties! Just ask our Natives! 🙂
(If you really want to help us Americans, stop being such fucking naive marks. You’re dealing with criminal thugs who lord over us. Stop being easy targets feeding their rapine. Grow a spine and tell us no — on everything! We need these S.O.B.s to run out of easy loot so we can bring them down over here. >:( The gravy train’s derailment depends on you!)

Posted by: titmouse | Sep 26 2023 15:52 utc | 80

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:23 utc | 22
But nowadays he reports Vitamin C diets…
—-
Not to be picky, but Linus died in 1994. You’ve got a funny definition of “nowadays”.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 26 2023 15:55 utc | 81

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 26 2023 15:23 utc | 22
But nowadays he reports Vitamin C diets…
—-
Not to be picky, but Linus died in 1994. You’ve got a funny definition of “nowadays”.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 26 2023 15:55 utc | 82

The purpose of NATO is to keep Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 26 2023 15:56 utc | 83

The purpose of NATO is to keep Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 26 2023 15:56 utc | 84

Hersh states: “Putin was in the process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts he wanted.“
Why didn’t Hersh state instead that Putin was in process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts that had voted to become part of the Russian Federation?
Posted by: DavidC | Sep 26 2023 15:47 utc | 37

Good catch!
Because he is just another American Fraud … that’s why. He is not a truth teller, he is obviously lying about what Putin “wanted” … spinning his “tale for sale”.
Hersh is another manipulator and self-serving like almost all American journalists today are. Just because he’s “independent” now, doesn’t mean he isn’t still ‘Owned’ by the Deep State.
Hersh loves the CIA and the US Military and that they do for his America … don’t kid yourself people. 😉

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 26 2023 15:56 utc | 85

Hersh states: “Putin was in the process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts he wanted.“
Why didn’t Hersh state instead that Putin was in process of annexing the four Ukrainian oblasts that had voted to become part of the Russian Federation?
Posted by: DavidC | Sep 26 2023 15:47 utc | 37

Good catch!
Because he is just another American Fraud … that’s why. He is not a truth teller, he is obviously lying about what Putin “wanted” … spinning his “tale for sale”.
Hersh is another manipulator and self-serving like almost all American journalists today are. Just because he’s “independent” now, doesn’t mean he isn’t still ‘Owned’ by the Deep State.
Hersh loves the CIA and the US Military and that they do for his America … don’t kid yourself people. 😉

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 26 2023 15:56 utc | 86

Bemildred @ 2 & 8, Rubiconned @ 18 –
This is approaching the one year anniversary, plus Winter weather. It’s the perfect time to generate some publicity about the Nordstream pipelines’ destruction. With a year’s further developments and increasing frustration among the populace, a little reminder is well timed. Makes me wonder if Seymour is taking sides…

Posted by: Paul Spencer | Sep 26 2023 15:57 utc | 87

Bemildred @ 2 & 8, Rubiconned @ 18 –
This is approaching the one year anniversary, plus Winter weather. It’s the perfect time to generate some publicity about the Nordstream pipelines’ destruction. With a year’s further developments and increasing frustration among the populace, a little reminder is well timed. Makes me wonder if Seymour is taking sides…

Posted by: Paul Spencer | Sep 26 2023 15:57 utc | 88

The Game Risk and the SMO
I’ve played the game Risk for 50 years. Any of you whom have played the game can remember this set up: say there are three guys left in the game-two of the players are trying to fight over the Europe/Asian border or North America/Europe with each other and it is a war of attrition.
Meanwhile the guy holding Oceania (Australia) or South America just eking out conquering one country to get his card while amassing his armies. Then when the two other opponents have spent themselves fighting each other Oceania takes over the world.
Its an entertainment example of the Thucydides Trap but we are now observing the phenomena in real time- Russia/US grappling with each other while China collects his cards…

Posted by: canuck | Sep 26 2023 15:59 utc | 89

The Game Risk and the SMO
I’ve played the game Risk for 50 years. Any of you whom have played the game can remember this set up: say there are three guys left in the game-two of the players are trying to fight over the Europe/Asian border or North America/Europe with each other and it is a war of attrition.
Meanwhile the guy holding Oceania (Australia) or South America just eking out conquering one country to get his card while amassing his armies. Then when the two other opponents have spent themselves fighting each other Oceania takes over the world.
Its an entertainment example of the Thucydides Trap but we are now observing the phenomena in real time- Russia/US grappling with each other while China collects his cards…

Posted by: canuck | Sep 26 2023 15:59 utc | 90

Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 23
What’s wrong with destruction of Nord Stream? We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.
It’s fine to reduce CO2 emissions, but destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines merely shifted the source of natural gas from Russia to America. An improvement for American gas producers, but no gain for the environment. And a large cost to European industry, especially in Germany.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Sep 26 2023 16:03 utc | 91

Posted by: Wandel | Sep 26 2023 15:28 utc | 23
What’s wrong with destruction of Nord Stream? We all need to cut on fossil fuels, and this was the largest fossil fuel pipeline into Europe, guaranteeing increased CO2 emissions for decades.
It’s fine to reduce CO2 emissions, but destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines merely shifted the source of natural gas from Russia to America. An improvement for American gas producers, but no gain for the environment. And a large cost to European industry, especially in Germany.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Sep 26 2023 16:03 utc | 92

What we are seeing is that all manner of pro US, carefully chosen, educated in America leaders are feeling the ground under their feet shaking as the policies that they pursue become constly to the people they puport to represent.
article by Dsamiel Lazare goes well with Hersh’s.
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1459/investigations-drag-on-and-on/
Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 5
——————————————————————
Sorry about the typos- its not dyslexia but.. I’m too cheap to replace my old keyboard with all the characters rubbed off.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:44 utc | 10
————————————————-
Not to worry it is the contents that counts and it does.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2023 16:04 utc | 93

What we are seeing is that all manner of pro US, carefully chosen, educated in America leaders are feeling the ground under their feet shaking as the policies that they pursue become constly to the people they puport to represent.
article by Dsamiel Lazare goes well with Hersh’s.
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1459/investigations-drag-on-and-on/
Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:41 utc | 5
——————————————————————
Sorry about the typos- its not dyslexia but.. I’m too cheap to replace my old keyboard with all the characters rubbed off.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 26 2023 14:44 utc | 10
————————————————-
Not to worry it is the contents that counts and it does.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 26 2023 16:04 utc | 94

“Trump is very good at talking. Not so good at following through. He’s quick to blame someone else or fall back on excuses.” – Agreed.
However: even though Trump never built a wall, never did anything about birthright citizenship, etc.etc., he did substantially reduce immigration. Maybe only by accident, but he did do that. And at the very least, he did not declare open war on the American people and allow a foreign invasion.
As ridiculous as Trump is, I am voting for him, if only because he has not declared outright war on the American nation.

Posted by: TG | Sep 26 2023 16:06 utc | 95

“Trump is very good at talking. Not so good at following through. He’s quick to blame someone else or fall back on excuses.” – Agreed.
However: even though Trump never built a wall, never did anything about birthright citizenship, etc.etc., he did substantially reduce immigration. Maybe only by accident, but he did do that. And at the very least, he did not declare open war on the American people and allow a foreign invasion.
As ridiculous as Trump is, I am voting for him, if only because he has not declared outright war on the American nation.

Posted by: TG | Sep 26 2023 16:06 utc | 96

@ Lavrov’s Dog 29
“Seymour Hersh just delivered another nothing burger. Thanks Sy.
Seriously there is nothing new, profound or surprising in anything he has just written, again. It was obvious the day they were blown up who did it and why.”

I think you are trolling, and IIRC, not for the first time.
Hersch had very specific details of exactly how the pipelines were blown up, and no one else did. Of course this is classic Seymour Hersch acting as an extremely unofficial spokesperson for the CIA, but it’s still valuable information.
What’s new in Hersch’s report this week is more precise dating of when the decisions were made and carried out.
Nuland’s statement that the German “leadership” was informed of everything long before the actual sabotage is news to me. Even if it’s just a reminder, it was worth repeating.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Sep 26 2023 16:07 utc | 97

@ Lavrov’s Dog 29
“Seymour Hersh just delivered another nothing burger. Thanks Sy.
Seriously there is nothing new, profound or surprising in anything he has just written, again. It was obvious the day they were blown up who did it and why.”

I think you are trolling, and IIRC, not for the first time.
Hersch had very specific details of exactly how the pipelines were blown up, and no one else did. Of course this is classic Seymour Hersch acting as an extremely unofficial spokesperson for the CIA, but it’s still valuable information.
What’s new in Hersch’s report this week is more precise dating of when the decisions were made and carried out.
Nuland’s statement that the German “leadership” was informed of everything long before the actual sabotage is news to me. Even if it’s just a reminder, it was worth repeating.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Sep 26 2023 16:07 utc | 98

> The White House fear was that Putin would get Germany under his thumb and then he was going to get Poland.
I think it’s better to rephrase this into the form at the end of the quote: “And thus followed the ultimate fear: that America would lose its long-standing primacy in Western Europe.”
The obvious problem in all of this is that people are denying agency to Western Europe. They’re treating it as an object to be taken, not as people to live with.

Posted by: rert | Sep 26 2023 16:09 utc | 99

> The White House fear was that Putin would get Germany under his thumb and then he was going to get Poland.
I think it’s better to rephrase this into the form at the end of the quote: “And thus followed the ultimate fear: that America would lose its long-standing primacy in Western Europe.”
The obvious problem in all of this is that people are denying agency to Western Europe. They’re treating it as an object to be taken, not as people to live with.

Posted by: rert | Sep 26 2023 16:09 utc | 100