Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 28, 2023
China’s ‘Shared Future’

The U.S. fears that China's growth will lead to a competition between the countries over hegemony on earth.

But China rejects hegemony. No only the one the U.S. is obviously trying to achieve but, more general, also for itself.

Yesterday the Global Times editorial pointed to a new guideline paper issued by China's State Council:

On September 26, China's State Council Information Office released a white paper titled "A Global Community of Shared Future: China's Proposals and Actions." Against the backdrop of the 10th anniversary of President Xi Jinping's proposal of building a global community of shared future, China has introduced the theoretical base, practice and development of a global community of shared future, and points the way toward a better future for the world. Anyone, be they are developing countries seeking to learn from China or individuals from Western countries who are interested in gaining a deeper understanding of China, will find inspiration in it as long as they approach it without biased views.

Human society is now facing a "life-or-death choice:" whether to enter into a vicious cycle of continuous confrontation and division or to seek a path of cooperation and win-win, ultimately allowing more than 7 billion people to have a better life. The whole world is searching for answers. This also confirms the highly prescient and forward-looking nature of the concept of a global community of shared future.

Today's world has become a community of shared future, with countries riding together on a ship of shared fate. A small boat cannot withstand the wind and waves, only a giant vessel can withstand the stormy seas. No matter how powerful a country may be, it cannot dominate the world alone and must engage in global cooperation.

As the white paper says, "This is an integrated world. Those who turn their back on it will have no place in it." In such a world, the true power that transcends time is contained in the silent and subtle ideas, just like the practical greatness demonstrated by the concept of global community of shared future.

The paper is available here.

It is 22,000 words long but quite readable. It is a recipe for a just and equalitarian world that will peacefully develop for everyone while allowing for a diversity of cultures and ideologies. It is thus building on China's decade old concept of a Community of Common Destiny for Mankind.

The most interesting part is probably this paragraph:

There is no iron law that dictates that a rising power will inevitably seek hegemony. This assumption represents typical hegemonic thinking and is grounded in memories of catastrophic wars between hegemonic powers in the past. China has never accepted that once a country becomes strong enough, it will invariably seek hegemony. China understands the lesson of history – that hegemony preludes decline. We pursue development and revitalization through our own efforts, rather than invasion or expansion. And everything we do is for the purpose of providing a better life for our people, all the while creating more development opportunities for the entire world, not in order to supersede or subjugate others.

Other strategic statements by China, like the one issued in 2013 that laid the ground for its Belt and Road program, had been dismissed when they were issued. But the record shows that China acts on such programs exactly as its papers promise to do. It profits from doing so.

Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

Should we therefore trust its claims that it rejects hegemony, not only of others but also for itself?

Comments

Does anyone actual believe this?
China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines and building islands to justify increased sea claim. They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 101

Does anyone actual believe this?
China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines and building islands to justify increased sea claim. They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 102

Posted by: Kaiama | Sep 28 2023 10:59 utc | 25
I gather, you haven’t heard the joke: Bill Gates walks into a bar …
Anyone who cites GDP, an average, to measure anything is innumerate. That is incapable of differentiating numerator and denominator, whole numbers and fractions, enumeration and estimation, apples and oranges, control and mastery, prejudice and statistical bias LOL ceteris paribus. But prove me wrong. Link World Bank Group’s current classification of “national income” on which the IMF relies to structure loan terms. LOL

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:23 utc | 103

Posted by: Kaiama | Sep 28 2023 10:59 utc | 25
I gather, you haven’t heard the joke: Bill Gates walks into a bar …
Anyone who cites GDP, an average, to measure anything is innumerate. That is incapable of differentiating numerator and denominator, whole numbers and fractions, enumeration and estimation, apples and oranges, control and mastery, prejudice and statistical bias LOL ceteris paribus. But prove me wrong. Link World Bank Group’s current classification of “national income” on which the IMF relies to structure loan terms. LOL

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:23 utc | 104

per capita
dead or alive.
omfg.

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:25 utc | 105

per capita
dead or alive.
omfg.

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:25 utc | 106

thx b
guess what – Firefox blocked the download link for the paper.
TOR had to do it instead.
This is embarassing. After all, its human beings, people with families and minds who decide over this kind of censorship.

Posted by: AG | Sep 28 2023 13:30 utc | 107

thx b
guess what – Firefox blocked the download link for the paper.
TOR had to do it instead.
This is embarassing. After all, its human beings, people with families and minds who decide over this kind of censorship.

Posted by: AG | Sep 28 2023 13:30 utc | 108

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
Why is the South China Sea called the South China Sea?

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:31 utc | 109

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
Why is the South China Sea called the South China Sea?

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:31 utc | 110

“…China rejects hegemony.”
and Islam means Peace.
In other news my good friend, the Nigerian Prince, has decided to divest himself of his trans-East River conveyance device for a fraction of its true value. Get in on the ground floor of this wonderful investment by contacting him at BR-549. Operators are standing by!

Posted by: Tom S. | Sep 28 2023 13:40 utc | 111

“…China rejects hegemony.”
and Islam means Peace.
In other news my good friend, the Nigerian Prince, has decided to divest himself of his trans-East River conveyance device for a fraction of its true value. Get in on the ground floor of this wonderful investment by contacting him at BR-549. Operators are standing by!

Posted by: Tom S. | Sep 28 2023 13:40 utc | 112

In the USA you can be both billionaire and President, and still you can’t speak freely.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 28 2023 13:44 utc | 113

In the USA you can be both billionaire and President, and still you can’t speak freely.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 28 2023 13:44 utc | 114

China’s “multipolar” and “win-win” cooperation is commerce driven and doesn’t work where “war” operates.
It will never come to pass because “war” will never cease to be a characteristic of humanity.
It’s a desire for market corporate capitalist communism that is “win-win” for investors & stock holders, but not so greedy that it insists on poverty to make a profit.
It would require that ALL Nations return to their Sovereign Status, throwing off imperium dictates & shackles, reconstituting their economies & controlling their own banks, and taking responsibility of their own Sovereigns.
It’s more profitable & easier for most Sovereign leaders to simply carry on as is (I.e. EU).
Which is why “multipolarity” will never actually come into existence. As possible tri-pod of power will exist & that’ll be the end of it.
In addition, look at the difference between Russia and China.. Russia under sanctions from hell, International smear campaigns ect, still honors their “business contracts”, carries on a “win-win” commerce example, irrespective of “unfriendly” moves. China on the other hand, reacts swiftly to Lithuania moves on the Taiwan issue and China economically crushes trade deals.
So this “win-win” thing, is kinda, obscure actually.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 28 2023 13:45 utc | 115

China’s “multipolar” and “win-win” cooperation is commerce driven and doesn’t work where “war” operates.
It will never come to pass because “war” will never cease to be a characteristic of humanity.
It’s a desire for market corporate capitalist communism that is “win-win” for investors & stock holders, but not so greedy that it insists on poverty to make a profit.
It would require that ALL Nations return to their Sovereign Status, throwing off imperium dictates & shackles, reconstituting their economies & controlling their own banks, and taking responsibility of their own Sovereigns.
It’s more profitable & easier for most Sovereign leaders to simply carry on as is (I.e. EU).
Which is why “multipolarity” will never actually come into existence. As possible tri-pod of power will exist & that’ll be the end of it.
In addition, look at the difference between Russia and China.. Russia under sanctions from hell, International smear campaigns ect, still honors their “business contracts”, carries on a “win-win” commerce example, irrespective of “unfriendly” moves. China on the other hand, reacts swiftly to Lithuania moves on the Taiwan issue and China economically crushes trade deals.
So this “win-win” thing, is kinda, obscure actually.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 28 2023 13:45 utc | 116

Why u dont take the Uigurs and give them housing, food, car ?
Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49
It’s interesting when people pull rabbits out of hats and think they scored a point.
China has 55 ethnic minority groups besides the Han majority.
Here’s a breakdown.
Please explain why the only the Uyghurs must be given houses and cars?
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-ethnic-groups-in-china.html#:~:text=Largest%20Ethnic%20Groups%20In%20China%20%20%20,%20%200.78%20%2017%20more%20rows%20
It’s very obvious you don’t know anything about China beyond the US bullshit. Ethnic minorities are considered national treasures of China, and that’s not just for the Uyghurs. They have preferential policies that even the Hans are jealous of.
Find out more real Facts about China and not just regurgitation of US rubbish.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 13:49 utc | 117

Why u dont take the Uigurs and give them housing, food, car ?
Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49
It’s interesting when people pull rabbits out of hats and think they scored a point.
China has 55 ethnic minority groups besides the Han majority.
Here’s a breakdown.
Please explain why the only the Uyghurs must be given houses and cars?
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-ethnic-groups-in-china.html#:~:text=Largest%20Ethnic%20Groups%20In%20China%20%20%20,%20%200.78%20%2017%20more%20rows%20
It’s very obvious you don’t know anything about China beyond the US bullshit. Ethnic minorities are considered national treasures of China, and that’s not just for the Uyghurs. They have preferential policies that even the Hans are jealous of.
Find out more real Facts about China and not just regurgitation of US rubbish.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 13:49 utc | 118

I have been a silent reader of MOA for quite some time and whenever the topic of China comes up, some its readers evoke an uninformed and emotional response regarding China. Many of these readers do not believe some matters which the MSM propagates but believe in others. This is known as the Gell-Mann Amnesia: The phenomenon of people trusting newspapers for topics which they are not knowledgeable about, despite recognizing them to be extremely inaccurate on certain topics which they are knowledgeable about.
I have never believed the Uygur genocide myth because I am old enough to remember the Tibet genocide myth propagated in the 1990s. It was absolutely debunked a a group of French journalists after some time. I have looked into the source and origins of the Uygur genocide myth and having studied the issue for some time, my initial hunch was confirmed. However, who am I to convince or even persuade others to read widely, stay skeptical and have an open mind.
In Sept this year, 4 independent German sinologists (2 of whom are the leaders in their field in Germany) and an international law specialist investigated on site on their own initiative in May and returned with their own report. A summary by two of them has been published in the Neue Zurcher Zeitung, a Swiss-German newspaper of record. For those who cannot read German, one can use mechanical translation. The authors traced the contemporary history of Uygur terrorism and how China dealt with it without “genocide”. Those that are interested can read the summary from the link below.
https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/xinjiang-china-kampf-gegen-terrorismus-und-separatismus-ld.1753509

Posted by: Passé-Partout | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 119

I have been a silent reader of MOA for quite some time and whenever the topic of China comes up, some its readers evoke an uninformed and emotional response regarding China. Many of these readers do not believe some matters which the MSM propagates but believe in others. This is known as the Gell-Mann Amnesia: The phenomenon of people trusting newspapers for topics which they are not knowledgeable about, despite recognizing them to be extremely inaccurate on certain topics which they are knowledgeable about.
I have never believed the Uygur genocide myth because I am old enough to remember the Tibet genocide myth propagated in the 1990s. It was absolutely debunked a a group of French journalists after some time. I have looked into the source and origins of the Uygur genocide myth and having studied the issue for some time, my initial hunch was confirmed. However, who am I to convince or even persuade others to read widely, stay skeptical and have an open mind.
In Sept this year, 4 independent German sinologists (2 of whom are the leaders in their field in Germany) and an international law specialist investigated on site on their own initiative in May and returned with their own report. A summary by two of them has been published in the Neue Zurcher Zeitung, a Swiss-German newspaper of record. For those who cannot read German, one can use mechanical translation. The authors traced the contemporary history of Uygur terrorism and how China dealt with it without “genocide”. Those that are interested can read the summary from the link below.
https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/xinjiang-china-kampf-gegen-terrorismus-und-separatismus-ld.1753509

Posted by: Passé-Partout | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 120

Pretty words, to be sure, but alas that is all they may be. Human nature is to always want more. It’s partly a survival thing, hardwired in our DNA, partly societal constructs, but the desire to gain more food, more territory, more money has been shown over and over again for millennia. Somehow I doubt the CCP has devised something to supplant human nature.
Remember these fine words “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”? Noble beyond measure, crystallization of what the human spirit should be. However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 121

Pretty words, to be sure, but alas that is all they may be. Human nature is to always want more. It’s partly a survival thing, hardwired in our DNA, partly societal constructs, but the desire to gain more food, more territory, more money has been shown over and over again for millennia. Somehow I doubt the CCP has devised something to supplant human nature.
Remember these fine words “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”? Noble beyond measure, crystallization of what the human spirit should be. However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 122

“They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.”
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
Another piece of bullshit. I am a foreigner living in China for more than 10 years. You know China better than me because you read NYT?
This is an example of your tyrannical internal police?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/policeman-bodyslam-woman-baby-video-shanghai-parking-ticket-songjiang-a7924086.html
The officer was jailed for 9 months and sacked from the police force. It means he’ll never get another job in the govt service.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 13:54 utc | 123

“They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.”
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
Another piece of bullshit. I am a foreigner living in China for more than 10 years. You know China better than me because you read NYT?
This is an example of your tyrannical internal police?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/policeman-bodyslam-woman-baby-video-shanghai-parking-ticket-songjiang-a7924086.html
The officer was jailed for 9 months and sacked from the police force. It means he’ll never get another job in the govt service.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 13:54 utc | 124

From a twitter post….
Important :
Russia stopped uranium exports to the US due to lack of insurance coverage – Rosatom

Finally…. the sanctions regime gave RosAtom an excuse to stop U235 exports to USA…
While….
At Los Alomos 17,000 are working feverishly to extract Pu from spent nuclear fuel to make functional atom bomb “pits” or… the core of nuclear bombs…
About time…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 13:55 utc | 125

From a twitter post….
Important :
Russia stopped uranium exports to the US due to lack of insurance coverage – Rosatom

Finally…. the sanctions regime gave RosAtom an excuse to stop U235 exports to USA…
While….
At Los Alomos 17,000 are working feverishly to extract Pu from spent nuclear fuel to make functional atom bomb “pits” or… the core of nuclear bombs…
About time…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 13:55 utc | 126

China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines and building islands to justify increased sea claim. They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
You need to read more. China Haters don’t need facts. Their Hate is enough.
Vietnam upgrade Military Posts
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/97948
https://www.voanews.com/east-asia/how-vietnam-quietly-built-10-islands-asias-most-disputed-sea
Vietnam Dredging
http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/satellite-images-appear-to-show-vietnam-dredging-on-disputed-reef-in-spratlys
US Memo to President 1976
Today’s US is truly hypocritical!
“All of the countries except the PRC have militarily occupied one or more of the Spratly Islands.”
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76ve12/d353
Who is the Real Aggressor in SCS
http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/who-is-the-biggest-aggressor-in-the-south-china-sea/
https://www.eurasiafuture.com/2018/06/02/there-is-one-clear-aggressor-in-the-south-china-sea-and-it-isnt-china/
“Vietnam has established 48 outposts on the Spratlys, whereas China maintains eight.”
http://defence.pk/threads/vietnams-newest-tourist-destination-the-spratlys.380422/
http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/international/images-show-vietnam-reclaiming-land-south-china-sea/
http://m.voanews.com/a/reu-images-vietnam-s-china-sea-reclamation-china-defends/2759800.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-building-islands-in-south-china-sea-2016-5
Who occupies what in the disputed region
Occupied by China (PRC)
Cuarteron Reef · Huayang Reef
Fiery Cross Reef · Yongshu Reef
Gaven Reefs · Nanxun Reef and Xinan Reef
Hughes Reef · Dongmen Reef
Johnson South Reef · Chigua Reef
Mischief Reef · Meiji Reef
Subi Reef · Zhubi Reef
Occupied by Malaysia
Ardasier Reef · Ubi Reef
Dallas Reef · Laya Reef
Erica Reef · Siput Reef
Investigator Shoal · Peninjau Shoal
Louisa Reef · Semarang Barat Kecil Reef
Mariveles Reef · Mantanani Reef
Swallow Reef · Layang-Layang Island
Occupied by the Philippines
Thitu Island · Pagasa Island
West York Island · Likas Island
Northeast Cay · Parola Island
Nanshan Island · Lawak Island
Loaita Island · Kota Island
Flat Island · Patag Island
Lankiam Cay · Panata Island
Irving Reef · Balagtas Reef
Second Thomas Shoal · Ayungin Shoal
Taiwan Occupied by Taiwan (ROC)
Itu Aba Island · Taiping Island
Zhongzhou Reef
Occupied by Vietnam
1. Alison Reef
2. Amboyan Reef
3. Barque Canada Reef
4. Central London Reef
5. Cornwallis South Reef
6. Da Gri-san
7. Da Hi Gen
8. East London Reef
9. Great Discovery Reef
10. Ladd Reef
11. Landsdowne Reef
12. Namyit Island
13. Pearson Reef
14. Petley Reef
15. Sand Cay
16. Sin Cowe Island
17. South Reef
18. South West Cay
19. Spratly Island
20. Tennent Reef
21. West London Reef

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:01 utc | 127

China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines and building islands to justify increased sea claim. They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
You need to read more. China Haters don’t need facts. Their Hate is enough.
Vietnam upgrade Military Posts
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/97948
https://www.voanews.com/east-asia/how-vietnam-quietly-built-10-islands-asias-most-disputed-sea
Vietnam Dredging
http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/satellite-images-appear-to-show-vietnam-dredging-on-disputed-reef-in-spratlys
US Memo to President 1976
Today’s US is truly hypocritical!
“All of the countries except the PRC have militarily occupied one or more of the Spratly Islands.”
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76ve12/d353
Who is the Real Aggressor in SCS
http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/who-is-the-biggest-aggressor-in-the-south-china-sea/
https://www.eurasiafuture.com/2018/06/02/there-is-one-clear-aggressor-in-the-south-china-sea-and-it-isnt-china/
“Vietnam has established 48 outposts on the Spratlys, whereas China maintains eight.”
http://defence.pk/threads/vietnams-newest-tourist-destination-the-spratlys.380422/
http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/international/images-show-vietnam-reclaiming-land-south-china-sea/
http://m.voanews.com/a/reu-images-vietnam-s-china-sea-reclamation-china-defends/2759800.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-building-islands-in-south-china-sea-2016-5
Who occupies what in the disputed region
Occupied by China (PRC)
Cuarteron Reef · Huayang Reef
Fiery Cross Reef · Yongshu Reef
Gaven Reefs · Nanxun Reef and Xinan Reef
Hughes Reef · Dongmen Reef
Johnson South Reef · Chigua Reef
Mischief Reef · Meiji Reef
Subi Reef · Zhubi Reef
Occupied by Malaysia
Ardasier Reef · Ubi Reef
Dallas Reef · Laya Reef
Erica Reef · Siput Reef
Investigator Shoal · Peninjau Shoal
Louisa Reef · Semarang Barat Kecil Reef
Mariveles Reef · Mantanani Reef
Swallow Reef · Layang-Layang Island
Occupied by the Philippines
Thitu Island · Pagasa Island
West York Island · Likas Island
Northeast Cay · Parola Island
Nanshan Island · Lawak Island
Loaita Island · Kota Island
Flat Island · Patag Island
Lankiam Cay · Panata Island
Irving Reef · Balagtas Reef
Second Thomas Shoal · Ayungin Shoal
Taiwan Occupied by Taiwan (ROC)
Itu Aba Island · Taiping Island
Zhongzhou Reef
Occupied by Vietnam
1. Alison Reef
2. Amboyan Reef
3. Barque Canada Reef
4. Central London Reef
5. Cornwallis South Reef
6. Da Gri-san
7. Da Hi Gen
8. East London Reef
9. Great Discovery Reef
10. Ladd Reef
11. Landsdowne Reef
12. Namyit Island
13. Pearson Reef
14. Petley Reef
15. Sand Cay
16. Sin Cowe Island
17. South Reef
18. South West Cay
19. Spratly Island
20. Tennent Reef
21. West London Reef

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:01 utc | 128

reply to 46, 48
China’s claim lines in the South China sea look just silly. The border with India seems to have disputes that look extreme on both sides. OTOH, millions of Chinese tourists who vacation and return are a powerful argument against them being oppressed. Tibet was a miserable feudal state that was nothing to brag about relative to the Dalai Lama. The situation with Uyghurs should be compared to other Muslim nations as to freedom and prosperity.
I do think the one horror about China ( that might not affect foreign relations) involves their social mores but the CCP is going to have to figure that one out. They wrecked a lot of good culture under Mao and tacking on rapacious capitalism didn’t help. The Good Samaritan idea is needed.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 129

reply to 46, 48
China’s claim lines in the South China sea look just silly. The border with India seems to have disputes that look extreme on both sides. OTOH, millions of Chinese tourists who vacation and return are a powerful argument against them being oppressed. Tibet was a miserable feudal state that was nothing to brag about relative to the Dalai Lama. The situation with Uyghurs should be compared to other Muslim nations as to freedom and prosperity.
I do think the one horror about China ( that might not affect foreign relations) involves their social mores but the CCP is going to have to figure that one out. They wrecked a lot of good culture under Mao and tacking on rapacious capitalism didn’t help. The Good Samaritan idea is needed.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 130

However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61
What do you think the CPC is?
Have you been to China and see China today with your own eyes? If Communism didn’t work out why is US so afraid of China? Second largest economy in the world and actually much richer than US.
Chinese people shop, eat, party, travel all over the world. Pretty much like ordinary “superior white Homo sapiens”.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:08 utc | 131

However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61
What do you think the CPC is?
Have you been to China and see China today with your own eyes? If Communism didn’t work out why is US so afraid of China? Second largest economy in the world and actually much richer than US.
Chinese people shop, eat, party, travel all over the world. Pretty much like ordinary “superior white Homo sapiens”.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:08 utc | 132

China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines …
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
Oh, really, do they?
Staged performance by the Philippines, US, Western media a total flop

Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 14:13 utc | 133

China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines …
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51
Oh, really, do they?
Staged performance by the Philippines, US, Western media a total flop

Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 14:13 utc | 134

“rapacious Capitalism”
Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65
You think China is like the west where Capitalism owns the govts?
Go read up Wanda, Didi, Alibaba, Evergrande. Their balls got cut off by the CPC for being greedy.
Jack Ma has no controlling share of Alibaba anymore so now he fiddles around with Useless projects.
It was not Deng who used capitalists to prosper China. The original idea came from Mao who wrote this back in 1949.
Mao:
“The present-day capitalist economy in China is a capitalist economy which for the most part is under the control of the People’s Government and which is linked with the state-owned socialist economy in various forms and supervised by the workers. It is not an ordinary but a particular kind of capitalist economy, namely, a state-capitalist economy of a new type. It exists not chiefly to make profits for the capitalists but to meet the needs of the people and the state. True, a share of the profits produced by the workers goes to the capitalists, but that is only a small part, about one quarter, of the total. The remaining three quarters are produced for the workers (in the form of the welfare fund), for the state (in the form of income tax) and for expanding productive capacity (a small part of which produces profits for the capitalists). Therefore, this state-capitalist economy of a new type takes on a socialist character to a very great extent and benefits the workers and the state.”
“The national bourgeoisie at the present stage is of great importance. Imperialism, a most ferocious enemy, is still standing alongside us. China’s modern industry still forms a very small proportion of the national economy. No reliable statistics are available, but it is estimated, on the basis of certain data, that before the War of Resistance Against Japan the value of output of modern industry constituted only about 10 per cent of the total value of output of the national economy. To counter imperialist oppression and to raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and the people’s livelihood; and we must unite with the national bourgeoisie in common struggle. Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it. But the national bourgeoisie cannot be the leader of the revolution, nor should it have the chief role in state power. The reason it cannot be the leader of the revolution and should not have the chief role in state power is that the social and economic position of the national bourgeoisie determines its weakness; it lacks foresight and sufficient courage and many of its members are afraid of the masses.”
(From a 1949 statement)

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:15 utc | 135

“rapacious Capitalism”
Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65
You think China is like the west where Capitalism owns the govts?
Go read up Wanda, Didi, Alibaba, Evergrande. Their balls got cut off by the CPC for being greedy.
Jack Ma has no controlling share of Alibaba anymore so now he fiddles around with Useless projects.
It was not Deng who used capitalists to prosper China. The original idea came from Mao who wrote this back in 1949.
Mao:
“The present-day capitalist economy in China is a capitalist economy which for the most part is under the control of the People’s Government and which is linked with the state-owned socialist economy in various forms and supervised by the workers. It is not an ordinary but a particular kind of capitalist economy, namely, a state-capitalist economy of a new type. It exists not chiefly to make profits for the capitalists but to meet the needs of the people and the state. True, a share of the profits produced by the workers goes to the capitalists, but that is only a small part, about one quarter, of the total. The remaining three quarters are produced for the workers (in the form of the welfare fund), for the state (in the form of income tax) and for expanding productive capacity (a small part of which produces profits for the capitalists). Therefore, this state-capitalist economy of a new type takes on a socialist character to a very great extent and benefits the workers and the state.”
“The national bourgeoisie at the present stage is of great importance. Imperialism, a most ferocious enemy, is still standing alongside us. China’s modern industry still forms a very small proportion of the national economy. No reliable statistics are available, but it is estimated, on the basis of certain data, that before the War of Resistance Against Japan the value of output of modern industry constituted only about 10 per cent of the total value of output of the national economy. To counter imperialist oppression and to raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and the people’s livelihood; and we must unite with the national bourgeoisie in common struggle. Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it. But the national bourgeoisie cannot be the leader of the revolution, nor should it have the chief role in state power. The reason it cannot be the leader of the revolution and should not have the chief role in state power is that the social and economic position of the national bourgeoisie determines its weakness; it lacks foresight and sufficient courage and many of its members are afraid of the masses.”
(From a 1949 statement)

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:15 utc | 136

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65
Can you please look up 11 Dash Line? Who marked it and who backed it up.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:16 utc | 137

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65
Can you please look up 11 Dash Line? Who marked it and who backed it up.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:16 utc | 138

@ Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:52 utc | 34
“it was the Chinese people who backed the CPC, enabling them to beat the KMT”
Yes but the whole situation in China was severely manipulated by the angloamericans.
And Chiang Kai Shek didnt fully apreciate the doble-play.
He expected and probably correctly to have been battled by the western sponsors had he gotten along well with the communists.
In the end it was the americans – directed by the anglophile subset of the US – who left weapons intended for KMT to the maoists.
Just like many anglosaxons who still havent got it he couldnt believe that the US/UK were the real sponsors of communist revolutions.
I doubt that Chiang Kai Shek could have maneuvered to avoid what happened since the british masterminded such plans to prevent the rise of capitalist competition.
This would have motivated the US/UK agents to keep internal strife in China until the nationalist side was beaten.
He apparently committed acts of great brutality by flooding people.
That looks indefensible to me but I assume he believed that still worse things were awaiting China that he hoped to avoid.
If he had discerned the actual mindset within the US/UK elites he would probably have done more to continue collaborating with Maos side which did take place in one phase.
Earlier Maos side wanted to put the priority on fighting Japan. But the christian Chiang who had been trained in Japan probably expected to achieve a better outcome with some degree of collaboration.
He knew that Japan had been supported by Britain for a long time and that this had enabled Japan to beat Russia at Tsushima.
For Chiang, Russia at the time was the threatening bolshevik enemy.
I am just trying to understand what most likely influenced his thinking.
And I am certain that given the opportunity to lead China under peace, he would have attempted to see China developing successfully into an independent and prosperous nation.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 28 2023 14:16 utc | 139

@ Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:52 utc | 34
“it was the Chinese people who backed the CPC, enabling them to beat the KMT”
Yes but the whole situation in China was severely manipulated by the angloamericans.
And Chiang Kai Shek didnt fully apreciate the doble-play.
He expected and probably correctly to have been battled by the western sponsors had he gotten along well with the communists.
In the end it was the americans – directed by the anglophile subset of the US – who left weapons intended for KMT to the maoists.
Just like many anglosaxons who still havent got it he couldnt believe that the US/UK were the real sponsors of communist revolutions.
I doubt that Chiang Kai Shek could have maneuvered to avoid what happened since the british masterminded such plans to prevent the rise of capitalist competition.
This would have motivated the US/UK agents to keep internal strife in China until the nationalist side was beaten.
He apparently committed acts of great brutality by flooding people.
That looks indefensible to me but I assume he believed that still worse things were awaiting China that he hoped to avoid.
If he had discerned the actual mindset within the US/UK elites he would probably have done more to continue collaborating with Maos side which did take place in one phase.
Earlier Maos side wanted to put the priority on fighting Japan. But the christian Chiang who had been trained in Japan probably expected to achieve a better outcome with some degree of collaboration.
He knew that Japan had been supported by Britain for a long time and that this had enabled Japan to beat Russia at Tsushima.
For Chiang, Russia at the time was the threatening bolshevik enemy.
I am just trying to understand what most likely influenced his thinking.
And I am certain that given the opportunity to lead China under peace, he would have attempted to see China developing successfully into an independent and prosperous nation.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 28 2023 14:16 utc | 140

China is a superpower and the USA hates superpowers. Also China has risen to become the most diplomatic partner without lifting a finger but just actioning what they promised to do. The USA instead use force, coercion and bulling tactics. There is no diplomacy in the USA just tyranny, corruption and blackmail.

Posted by: AI | Sep 28 2023 14:20 utc | 141

China is a superpower and the USA hates superpowers. Also China has risen to become the most diplomatic partner without lifting a finger but just actioning what they promised to do. The USA instead use force, coercion and bulling tactics. There is no diplomacy in the USA just tyranny, corruption and blackmail.

Posted by: AI | Sep 28 2023 14:20 utc | 142

The border with India seems to have disputes that look extreme on both sides.
Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65
It does Looks like many don’t have access to Internet Or else don’t know how to search.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4407848
Is this China’s fault?
Abstract
The Nehru government sought to decide for itself where India’s borders with China should lie and then impose the alignments it had chosen on Beijing, refusing to negotiate them. That meant that unless Beijing surrendered to India’s territorial claims to Aksai Chin and areas north of the McMahon Line conflict was inevitable. China’s military action in 1962 was reactive and pre-emptive, and that India suffered ‘unprovoked aggression’ is a self-serving myth. That there has been no settlement of the Sino-Indian borders is the consequence of Nehru’s policies, to which successor governments, except Narasimha Rao’s, have strictly adhered.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:21 utc | 143

The border with India seems to have disputes that look extreme on both sides.
Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65
It does Looks like many don’t have access to Internet Or else don’t know how to search.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4407848
Is this China’s fault?
Abstract
The Nehru government sought to decide for itself where India’s borders with China should lie and then impose the alignments it had chosen on Beijing, refusing to negotiate them. That meant that unless Beijing surrendered to India’s territorial claims to Aksai Chin and areas north of the McMahon Line conflict was inevitable. China’s military action in 1962 was reactive and pre-emptive, and that India suffered ‘unprovoked aggression’ is a self-serving myth. That there has been no settlement of the Sino-Indian borders is the consequence of Nehru’s policies, to which successor governments, except Narasimha Rao’s, have strictly adhered.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:21 utc | 144

Latest export from China….
From Twitter Post….
Many inquiries have been made after a video was released showing how “straw checkerboard sand barriers” are planted in China’s desert to combat desertification.
For starters, the straw checkerboard sand barriers can only halt the progression of the desert. Grass and vegetation are planted inside the straw squares to prevent desertification indefinitely. The seed inside the straw square will be dragged up by the wind and spread to the inner borders of the straw barriers. The grass will flourish with sufficient moisture, and the decomposing straw will act as a natural fertilizer.
The straw barriers will decompose for three years, and live “grass checkerboard sand barriers” will replace them, turning the dunes back to green.
The approach was developed over 60 years ago. While many new technologies and machinery are being developed to help with anti-desertification in China, it remains one of the most effective and low-cost ways to combat desertification.
Most “straw checkerboard sand barriers” are now planted by machines, although human labour is still required on particularly steep slopes or shifting sand dunes. Young people today lack interest in such work; thus, the elderly and housewives are the ones who are currently plating the straw squares in the desert.
Tang Xining, a 57-year-old scientist fighting desertification in Ningxia for over 33 years, has designed some simple equipment to assist them in planting the straw sand barriers. Below is a video introducing his creations.
Many developing nations can use these cheap and effective methods to combat desertification.
Villagers use Tang Ximing’s method to control the expansion of the Tengger Desert with grass grids in the Ningxia Hui autonomous region. CHINA DAILY
According to Tang Ximing, deputy head of the Zhongwei Sand Control Forestry Center, Zhongwei city in the Ningxia Hui autonomous region has made great progress in its battle against desertification, with the total sand-controlled area reaching 100,000 hectares this year.
“Now, sand-fixing tree species like wormwood are growing in straw checkerboards in the southeastern Tengger Desert,” Tang said.
The 55-year-old man has devoted 30 years to fighting desertification in Zhongwei and has helped develop an efficient method for fixing sand in place, which has increased tree survival rates by 25 percent.
The Baotou-Lanzhou Railway, China’s first desert railway and which crosses the Tengger, opened in 1958. Trains were often forced to stop due to frequent sandstorms. To ensure normal operations and protect people living near the desert, several generations began to explore methods of sand control.
Born in Zhongwei city, Tang suffered from sandstorms so strong, they “sometimes blew people into the canal” and covered rice bowls in a dusting of sand.
He studied forestry at college and returned to his hometown after graduation in 1991, taking up a career in sand-control at a local forest farm.
The old way of using grass to fix the sand in place didn’t work, as the grass was blown away by the wind. By accident, Tang and his colleagues discovered that wheat straw was able to stabilize the sand for several days.
“Scientists tested out straw squares of various shapes and sizes. After years of experiments, they found that straw checkerboards of about 1 meter by 1 meter were most effective, and cheapest,” Tang said.
In 2015, he tried sowing grass seeds around the checkerboards to build up a grass grid. The roots of xerophytes plants that are naturally adapted to harsh conditions, are able to tap into deep underground water sources and, in this way, play a permanent role in fixing sand, he said.
However, the use of traditional spades for planting trees resulted in water loss and a low survival rate. “Because spade-dug pits tend to be shallow, when the tree is planted, its roots aren’t able to absorb water in the dry, sand layer,” Tang said.
After three years of research, Tang and his colleagues developed a new tool, which increases survival rates by 25 percent. Saplings are planted in a matter of seconds by forking their roots through one end of the 1-meter-long iron tool, and plunging it straight into the sand with one foot on the crossbar.
“This halves labor costs,” Tang said. It took two years to turn the desert into an oasis, and it will become a forest in five years, he added.
The sand-control area in Zhongwei now covers 100,000 hectares and should keep increasing by 5,300 hectares every year.

I have seen many videos which show expansion of this technique most recently to Niger….
Niger????
Are the Chinese bringing de-desertification techniques to the Sahel????
Those pesky Chinese…!!
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 14:23 utc | 145

Latest export from China….
From Twitter Post….
Many inquiries have been made after a video was released showing how “straw checkerboard sand barriers” are planted in China’s desert to combat desertification.
For starters, the straw checkerboard sand barriers can only halt the progression of the desert. Grass and vegetation are planted inside the straw squares to prevent desertification indefinitely. The seed inside the straw square will be dragged up by the wind and spread to the inner borders of the straw barriers. The grass will flourish with sufficient moisture, and the decomposing straw will act as a natural fertilizer.
The straw barriers will decompose for three years, and live “grass checkerboard sand barriers” will replace them, turning the dunes back to green.
The approach was developed over 60 years ago. While many new technologies and machinery are being developed to help with anti-desertification in China, it remains one of the most effective and low-cost ways to combat desertification.
Most “straw checkerboard sand barriers” are now planted by machines, although human labour is still required on particularly steep slopes or shifting sand dunes. Young people today lack interest in such work; thus, the elderly and housewives are the ones who are currently plating the straw squares in the desert.
Tang Xining, a 57-year-old scientist fighting desertification in Ningxia for over 33 years, has designed some simple equipment to assist them in planting the straw sand barriers. Below is a video introducing his creations.
Many developing nations can use these cheap and effective methods to combat desertification.
Villagers use Tang Ximing’s method to control the expansion of the Tengger Desert with grass grids in the Ningxia Hui autonomous region. CHINA DAILY
According to Tang Ximing, deputy head of the Zhongwei Sand Control Forestry Center, Zhongwei city in the Ningxia Hui autonomous region has made great progress in its battle against desertification, with the total sand-controlled area reaching 100,000 hectares this year.
“Now, sand-fixing tree species like wormwood are growing in straw checkerboards in the southeastern Tengger Desert,” Tang said.
The 55-year-old man has devoted 30 years to fighting desertification in Zhongwei and has helped develop an efficient method for fixing sand in place, which has increased tree survival rates by 25 percent.
The Baotou-Lanzhou Railway, China’s first desert railway and which crosses the Tengger, opened in 1958. Trains were often forced to stop due to frequent sandstorms. To ensure normal operations and protect people living near the desert, several generations began to explore methods of sand control.
Born in Zhongwei city, Tang suffered from sandstorms so strong, they “sometimes blew people into the canal” and covered rice bowls in a dusting of sand.
He studied forestry at college and returned to his hometown after graduation in 1991, taking up a career in sand-control at a local forest farm.
The old way of using grass to fix the sand in place didn’t work, as the grass was blown away by the wind. By accident, Tang and his colleagues discovered that wheat straw was able to stabilize the sand for several days.
“Scientists tested out straw squares of various shapes and sizes. After years of experiments, they found that straw checkerboards of about 1 meter by 1 meter were most effective, and cheapest,” Tang said.
In 2015, he tried sowing grass seeds around the checkerboards to build up a grass grid. The roots of xerophytes plants that are naturally adapted to harsh conditions, are able to tap into deep underground water sources and, in this way, play a permanent role in fixing sand, he said.
However, the use of traditional spades for planting trees resulted in water loss and a low survival rate. “Because spade-dug pits tend to be shallow, when the tree is planted, its roots aren’t able to absorb water in the dry, sand layer,” Tang said.
After three years of research, Tang and his colleagues developed a new tool, which increases survival rates by 25 percent. Saplings are planted in a matter of seconds by forking their roots through one end of the 1-meter-long iron tool, and plunging it straight into the sand with one foot on the crossbar.
“This halves labor costs,” Tang said. It took two years to turn the desert into an oasis, and it will become a forest in five years, he added.
The sand-control area in Zhongwei now covers 100,000 hectares and should keep increasing by 5,300 hectares every year.

I have seen many videos which show expansion of this technique most recently to Niger….
Niger????
Are the Chinese bringing de-desertification techniques to the Sahel????
Those pesky Chinese…!!
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 14:23 utc | 146

Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

History and current events confirms it.

Should we therefore trust its claims that it rejects hegemony, not only of others but also for itself?

China is the worlds oldest culture in the current iteration of civilization. I don’t think we have any indication from history that the chinese culture seeks world hegemony. So we should trust it, as the alternative is to open up for others to seek hegemony.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 147

Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

History and current events confirms it.

Should we therefore trust its claims that it rejects hegemony, not only of others but also for itself?

China is the worlds oldest culture in the current iteration of civilization. I don’t think we have any indication from history that the chinese culture seeks world hegemony. So we should trust it, as the alternative is to open up for others to seek hegemony.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 148

Anyone who is honest in wanting to know why the Sino-Indian border war broke out in 1962 should read this.
The report was commissioner by the Indian govt But because of the Inconvenient Truth it has been classified Secret since then. Of course the world knows, if they are interested.
https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/the-henderson-brooks-report/289845

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 149

Anyone who is honest in wanting to know why the Sino-Indian border war broke out in 1962 should read this.
The report was commissioner by the Indian govt But because of the Inconvenient Truth it has been classified Secret since then. Of course the world knows, if they are interested.
https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/the-henderson-brooks-report/289845

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 150

@peter mcloughlin | Sep 28 2023 9:51 utc | 6

US global hegemony is under threat

The world is threatened by US attempts to establish global hegemony. Preventing it is not a threat.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:29 utc | 151

@peter mcloughlin | Sep 28 2023 9:51 utc | 6

US global hegemony is under threat

The world is threatened by US attempts to establish global hegemony. Preventing it is not a threat.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:29 utc | 152

#20 lol
Thanks for that, clearly an american that has never been out of the country except for Mexican resorts. Americans love to spout of government BS thinking they are really smart. Both parties do this the Dems being the worst right at the moment. I always wondered how Nazi germany came about with a small handful of people helping people escape now I know I think we can see where the west is heading

Posted by: Susan | Sep 28 2023 14:29 utc | 153

#20 lol
Thanks for that, clearly an american that has never been out of the country except for Mexican resorts. Americans love to spout of government BS thinking they are really smart. Both parties do this the Dems being the worst right at the moment. I always wondered how Nazi germany came about with a small handful of people helping people escape now I know I think we can see where the west is heading

Posted by: Susan | Sep 28 2023 14:29 utc | 154

The big problem with the imperialists is that they cannot think that other people can think differently from them.
A trait of character too often seen also with commentators. Especially those who show no patience over the Russian strategy with the SMO.
Never awake a sleeping dog, it could bark and bite.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:32 utc | 155

The big problem with the imperialists is that they cannot think that other people can think differently from them.
A trait of character too often seen also with commentators. Especially those who show no patience over the Russian strategy with the SMO.
Never awake a sleeping dog, it could bark and bite.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:32 utc | 156

Regarding those who want to ask Uyghurs:
– fly there for yourself and ask them
– alternatively start here and follow the hundreds of sources:
https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 12:34 utc | 45
China is a very old civilization . Uyghers are Mongols. The Han Chinese remember when the Mongols took over their country entering into the Yuan dynasty.
Uyghers are mostly Muslim and the CIA/MI6 have been attempting to ferment ISIS terrorism in Western China.
So when I hear about ‘re-education camps” it only China trying to re program the brainwashed.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 28 2023 14:33 utc | 157

Regarding those who want to ask Uyghurs:
– fly there for yourself and ask them
– alternatively start here and follow the hundreds of sources:
https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 12:34 utc | 45
China is a very old civilization . Uyghers are Mongols. The Han Chinese remember when the Mongols took over their country entering into the Yuan dynasty.
Uyghers are mostly Muslim and the CIA/MI6 have been attempting to ferment ISIS terrorism in Western China.
So when I hear about ‘re-education camps” it only China trying to re program the brainwashed.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 28 2023 14:33 utc | 158

reply to 69
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-13748349
China is trying to hug Phillipines and Malaysia coastlines. It looks ridiculous to much of the world, regardless of what ROC claims.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:34 utc | 159

reply to 69
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-13748349
China is trying to hug Phillipines and Malaysia coastlines. It looks ridiculous to much of the world, regardless of what ROC claims.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:34 utc | 160

China settled all border disputes with Russia. India absolutely refused to negotiate, insisting on taking Tibet, Arunachal, parts of Sichuan.
Who is being unreasonable?
You do know where Sichuan is right?
Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 12:49 utc | 48
………………
Was this mainly about water rights? I believe China, by annexing Tibet, now controls all the major headwaters upon which India depends, but have never looked into it in detail.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 28 2023 14:34 utc | 161

China settled all border disputes with Russia. India absolutely refused to negotiate, insisting on taking Tibet, Arunachal, parts of Sichuan.
Who is being unreasonable?
You do know where Sichuan is right?
Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 12:49 utc | 48
………………
Was this mainly about water rights? I believe China, by annexing Tibet, now controls all the major headwaters upon which India depends, but have never looked into it in detail.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 28 2023 14:34 utc | 162

@ Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 28 2023 12:24 utc | 42
Well duh, yeah, the US claimed plenty of territory too, doesn’t mean they ever had any right to it.
You still didn’t address the crux of the claim, which is, what right does China have over those waters, when they are clearly nowhere near China, and right in front of Vietnam, Malaysia and Philippines for example.
This MoA article was framed with an open question, to which i added mine with a very specific and relevant example. China deserves many praises, as i said so myself, but simping for China is different. As far as criticisms go, i find their whole 9 Dash line to be absolute bs, and for all of their talk of not wanting to be hegemonic, then that is the first place they could put their money where their mouth is to prove how their actions match the rhetoric.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 28 2023 14:35 utc | 163

@ Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 28 2023 12:24 utc | 42
Well duh, yeah, the US claimed plenty of territory too, doesn’t mean they ever had any right to it.
You still didn’t address the crux of the claim, which is, what right does China have over those waters, when they are clearly nowhere near China, and right in front of Vietnam, Malaysia and Philippines for example.
This MoA article was framed with an open question, to which i added mine with a very specific and relevant example. China deserves many praises, as i said so myself, but simping for China is different. As far as criticisms go, i find their whole 9 Dash line to be absolute bs, and for all of their talk of not wanting to be hegemonic, then that is the first place they could put their money where their mouth is to prove how their actions match the rhetoric.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 28 2023 14:35 utc | 164

China is the worlds oldest culture in the current iteration of civilization. I don’t think we have any indication from history that the chinese culture seeks world hegemony. So we should trust it, as the alternative is to open up for others to seek hegemony.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 74
When the Chinese went to Africa, they were doing commerce, not colonisation, nor slave trade, nor massacres or looting. All typical western behaviours and crimes.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:36 utc | 165

China is the worlds oldest culture in the current iteration of civilization. I don’t think we have any indication from history that the chinese culture seeks world hegemony. So we should trust it, as the alternative is to open up for others to seek hegemony.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 74
When the Chinese went to Africa, they were doing commerce, not colonisation, nor slave trade, nor massacres or looting. All typical western behaviours and crimes.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:36 utc | 166

From Twitter post…..
What countries signed treaties with Hitler, and when:
1933 – Uk, France, Italy – Four powers pact
1934 – Poland – Pisudski Pact
1935 – UK – Anglo – German Naval Agreement
1936 – Japan – Anti-Comintern Pact
1938, Sept – UK – German-British non-aggression Pact
1938, Dec – France – German-French non-aggression pact
1939, Mar – Romania – German-Romanian Economical treaty
1939, Mar – Lithuania – non-aggression pact
1939, May – Italy – Pact of Steel
1939, May – Denmark – non-aggression pact
1939, Jun – Estonia – non-aggression pact
1939, Jul – Latvia – non-aggression pact
1939, Aug – USSR – non-aggression pact (Molotov-Ribbentrop)
But they only teach you about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact…
AND…
This does not include the Austrian Anshluss, Carve up of Czechoslovakia — SudetenLand cession, Polish annexation…
And others…
In hindsight it’s apparent the NAZIS were clearing the decks for war…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 14:41 utc | 167

From Twitter post…..
What countries signed treaties with Hitler, and when:
1933 – Uk, France, Italy – Four powers pact
1934 – Poland – Pisudski Pact
1935 – UK – Anglo – German Naval Agreement
1936 – Japan – Anti-Comintern Pact
1938, Sept – UK – German-British non-aggression Pact
1938, Dec – France – German-French non-aggression pact
1939, Mar – Romania – German-Romanian Economical treaty
1939, Mar – Lithuania – non-aggression pact
1939, May – Italy – Pact of Steel
1939, May – Denmark – non-aggression pact
1939, Jun – Estonia – non-aggression pact
1939, Jul – Latvia – non-aggression pact
1939, Aug – USSR – non-aggression pact (Molotov-Ribbentrop)
But they only teach you about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact…
AND…
This does not include the Austrian Anshluss, Carve up of Czechoslovakia — SudetenLand cession, Polish annexation…
And others…
In hindsight it’s apparent the NAZIS were clearing the decks for war…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 14:41 utc | 168

@Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:36 utc | 82
Agreed.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:41 utc | 169

@Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:36 utc | 82
Agreed.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:41 utc | 170

Pretty words, to be sure, but alas that is all they may be. Human nature is to always want more. It’s partly a survival thing, hardwired in our DNA, partly societal constructs, but the desire to gain more food, more territory, more money has been shown over and over again for millennia. Somehow I doubt the CCP has devised something to supplant human nature.
Remember these fine words “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”? Noble beyond measure, crystallization of what the human spirit should be. However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61
No, it’s not.
If you look at families, as the smaller nucleus of society, generally they tend to be collaborative, same goes with small villages or communities, this can be seen in Italy expecially rural areas, but I suppose in US and other countries too.
Occasionally, in a family, some individuals cane became greedy or jealous but the rest of the family can and will shut them off for the wellbeing of the whole family, same goes for communities.
On occasion there will be major clash between community, but driven from necessity instead of greed.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 28 2023 14:52 utc | 171

Pretty words, to be sure, but alas that is all they may be. Human nature is to always want more. It’s partly a survival thing, hardwired in our DNA, partly societal constructs, but the desire to gain more food, more territory, more money has been shown over and over again for millennia. Somehow I doubt the CCP has devised something to supplant human nature.
Remember these fine words “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”? Noble beyond measure, crystallization of what the human spirit should be. However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61
No, it’s not.
If you look at families, as the smaller nucleus of society, generally they tend to be collaborative, same goes with small villages or communities, this can be seen in Italy expecially rural areas, but I suppose in US and other countries too.
Occasionally, in a family, some individuals cane became greedy or jealous but the rest of the family can and will shut them off for the wellbeing of the whole family, same goes for communities.
On occasion there will be major clash between community, but driven from necessity instead of greed.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 28 2023 14:52 utc | 172

For those China Haters screaming away about evil aggressive CPC here’s a map from Republic of China. Compare it with today’s PRC map and see the huge territory China has given away to settle territorial disputes. That includes 2 million sq.km given to Russia.
Mongolia was allowed independence because Stalin asked. China retained Inner Mongolia.
https://i.imgur.com/IM1PtAh.jpg
Btw If you don’t know the difference between Republic of China and People’s Republic of China then you shouldn’t even be commenting on China at all.
Which other countries willingly gave away their land for peace?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:53 utc | 173

For those China Haters screaming away about evil aggressive CPC here’s a map from Republic of China. Compare it with today’s PRC map and see the huge territory China has given away to settle territorial disputes. That includes 2 million sq.km given to Russia.
Mongolia was allowed independence because Stalin asked. China retained Inner Mongolia.
https://i.imgur.com/IM1PtAh.jpg
Btw If you don’t know the difference between Republic of China and People’s Republic of China then you shouldn’t even be commenting on China at all.
Which other countries willingly gave away their land for peace?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:53 utc | 174

How many of you actually bothered to find out about the 11 Dash Line, who did it, and who gave them the ships to do it?
Is there an honest person left?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:55 utc | 175

How many of you actually bothered to find out about the 11 Dash Line, who did it, and who gave them the ships to do it?
Is there an honest person left?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:55 utc | 176

Self-righteous hypocrisy is the other side of the coin of morality.
It’s hard work obeying rules especially rules around our desires, wealth, sex, power. Self- righteous hypocrisy is a human frailty by which we project onto others the things we don’t like ourselves.
Even educated fleas – do it. Fall in love. I don’t know which is the worser : USUKIS brazenly trying to conquer Russia , South Americs and the Middle East while projecting its violence onto China about Taiwan, or, China pretending that its interest in Africs is avuncular respect, while in China itself religion is ridiculed.
China is not at all Multipolar in respect to religion, and USUKIS’s love of radical Islam has been proved to be entirely related to violence , from Yugoslavia to Syria.
So my answer to our respected host’s interesting question is that don’t accept the premise of the question which is that we should make judgements about others.
First, we have to confront all of our Western assumptions about our political aggression and our use of religion.
Then we might have something useful to offer to China. The housing of 3 million hostile Muslims in Britain is not a virtue, but more of thecsame old Divide and Rule of the last 2000 years.
What needs to go, on all sides (Trump’s favourite phrase ) , is this bonkers obsession with controlling others.
Surely the elites who see 24/7 spying as a tool of oppressing others ,need to examine their own excesses. Their own weaknesses.
The brothers who separate their women from contact with me, but chat up my wife sitting with their wife in their back sitting rooms, need to reflect on the power structures they are trying to build around themselves, that they alone are innocent, because they have projected all their sexual desires onto others.
The West should respect peaceful Islam, before asking China to respect peaceful Islam, and the West should totally disconnect from its colonial domination of Africa etc. Otherwise this whole discussion is pure hypocrisy and summer snowballs.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 28 2023 14:58 utc | 177

Self-righteous hypocrisy is the other side of the coin of morality.
It’s hard work obeying rules especially rules around our desires, wealth, sex, power. Self- righteous hypocrisy is a human frailty by which we project onto others the things we don’t like ourselves.
Even educated fleas – do it. Fall in love. I don’t know which is the worser : USUKIS brazenly trying to conquer Russia , South Americs and the Middle East while projecting its violence onto China about Taiwan, or, China pretending that its interest in Africs is avuncular respect, while in China itself religion is ridiculed.
China is not at all Multipolar in respect to religion, and USUKIS’s love of radical Islam has been proved to be entirely related to violence , from Yugoslavia to Syria.
So my answer to our respected host’s interesting question is that don’t accept the premise of the question which is that we should make judgements about others.
First, we have to confront all of our Western assumptions about our political aggression and our use of religion.
Then we might have something useful to offer to China. The housing of 3 million hostile Muslims in Britain is not a virtue, but more of thecsame old Divide and Rule of the last 2000 years.
What needs to go, on all sides (Trump’s favourite phrase ) , is this bonkers obsession with controlling others.
Surely the elites who see 24/7 spying as a tool of oppressing others ,need to examine their own excesses. Their own weaknesses.
The brothers who separate their women from contact with me, but chat up my wife sitting with their wife in their back sitting rooms, need to reflect on the power structures they are trying to build around themselves, that they alone are innocent, because they have projected all their sexual desires onto others.
The West should respect peaceful Islam, before asking China to respect peaceful Islam, and the West should totally disconnect from its colonial domination of Africa etc. Otherwise this whole discussion is pure hypocrisy and summer snowballs.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 28 2023 14:58 utc | 178

49# 59#
Why not give them houses? Maybe you need to go and see these minority regions for yourself. Shockingly the Chinese haves given them more then houses, they have moved companies into these regions, they have made sure the farmers have modern tools to farm with, health care and schools with their language and Chinese.
Now how about a trip to the Navajo nation where 99percent of the people live below the poverty line health care in terrible, education is terrible. This hold true on most tribal land. Let’s talk about Black communities in America. Where housing is unaffordable healthcare non existent and cops shoot to kill at the drop of a hat. Then let’s look at the rest of America. For shit public ed, healthcare system failing, cost of living outrageous for what you get. China has blown away the world by ending poverty. It is clean, no homeless on the streets.Massive high speed rail every where that is affordable. Now has the best universities in the world along with Russia. Solid healthcare.
So when you know something about China come back so far you just make ignorant Biden BS!

Posted by: Susan | Sep 28 2023 15:04 utc | 179

49# 59#
Why not give them houses? Maybe you need to go and see these minority regions for yourself. Shockingly the Chinese haves given them more then houses, they have moved companies into these regions, they have made sure the farmers have modern tools to farm with, health care and schools with their language and Chinese.
Now how about a trip to the Navajo nation where 99percent of the people live below the poverty line health care in terrible, education is terrible. This hold true on most tribal land. Let’s talk about Black communities in America. Where housing is unaffordable healthcare non existent and cops shoot to kill at the drop of a hat. Then let’s look at the rest of America. For shit public ed, healthcare system failing, cost of living outrageous for what you get. China has blown away the world by ending poverty. It is clean, no homeless on the streets.Massive high speed rail every where that is affordable. Now has the best universities in the world along with Russia. Solid healthcare.
So when you know something about China come back so far you just make ignorant Biden BS!

Posted by: Susan | Sep 28 2023 15:04 utc | 180

I’m sure that lots in the USA are crapping at the idea that they will not be bossing the rest of humanity around, and worse, they might have to take instructions from a Yellow person. But US hegemony has killed 10s of millions. It’s always excused by nice sounding rhetoric about “freedom” and “democracy”, but a hell of a lot have “freed” of their lives, limbs, self-respect, property. It’s time for the USA to just leave everyone else alone.
Look at Chinese history over the centuries and millenia. China’s been the leading country several times. The sky has not fallen yet! Usually, Chinese people wait for foreigners to come and buy their manuctures: silk, tea, porcelain, computer chips, whatever.
Don’t be afraid of no US hegemony!

Posted by: lester | Sep 28 2023 15:06 utc | 181

I’m sure that lots in the USA are crapping at the idea that they will not be bossing the rest of humanity around, and worse, they might have to take instructions from a Yellow person. But US hegemony has killed 10s of millions. It’s always excused by nice sounding rhetoric about “freedom” and “democracy”, but a hell of a lot have “freed” of their lives, limbs, self-respect, property. It’s time for the USA to just leave everyone else alone.
Look at Chinese history over the centuries and millenia. China’s been the leading country several times. The sky has not fallen yet! Usually, Chinese people wait for foreigners to come and buy their manuctures: silk, tea, porcelain, computer chips, whatever.
Don’t be afraid of no US hegemony!

Posted by: lester | Sep 28 2023 15:06 utc | 182

Hegemony done well produces more hegemony fo rmany centuries to come.
Ask the Romans.
In general, it seems there’s a lot of propaganda in the document. The Chinese government pressurises Western Companies and organisations into not criticising them (eg the Basketball players can’t speak about China, therefore they go the easy way with BLM. Even Elon shuts up about China, and he shuts up about very little on this planet…).
They will apply pressure all right, just as the Americans do now, if probably more intelligently.
It’s in the nature of power.

Posted by: Alexander P | Sep 28 2023 15:14 utc | 183

Hegemony done well produces more hegemony fo rmany centuries to come.
Ask the Romans.
In general, it seems there’s a lot of propaganda in the document. The Chinese government pressurises Western Companies and organisations into not criticising them (eg the Basketball players can’t speak about China, therefore they go the easy way with BLM. Even Elon shuts up about China, and he shuts up about very little on this planet…).
They will apply pressure all right, just as the Americans do now, if probably more intelligently.
It’s in the nature of power.

Posted by: Alexander P | Sep 28 2023 15:14 utc | 184

There is no iron law that dictates that a rising power will inevitably seek hegemony. This assumption represents typical hegemonic thinking and is grounded in memories of catastrophic wars between hegemonic powers in the past. China has never accepted that once a country becomes strong enough, it will invariably seek hegemony. China understands the lesson of history – that hegemony preludes decline. We pursue development and revitalization through our own efforts, rather than invasion or expansion. And everything we do is for the purpose of providing a better life for our people, all the while creating more development opportunities for the entire world, not in order to supersede or subjugate others.

SMH that b thinks this is some kind of refutation of the idea that the CCP (“communist” in name only, it should be remembered) will not at some stage seek hegemony.
Empire-building may indeed lead to the ruling country’s ultimate collapse, but during the expansion phase – which can last centuries – it bring its elites great riches, influence and power.
Unless you think the Chinese are somehow genetically immune to the siren calls of power, I see no way of being at all confident that China won’t follow in the footsteps of every other rising power, unless checked by outside powers.
I mean, you can see this with their internal politics – Mao and Xi, for instance, and the CCP itself exercise hegemonic power over the Chinese citizenry.
And no, I’m not claiming the US/Anglo empire is any better… just that the sorts of people who “rise” to the top in any large country are people who care most about power and are willing to do the most to acquire it. And these are not people who put “the people” first – they put themselves first.

Posted by: Observer | Sep 28 2023 15:14 utc | 185

There is no iron law that dictates that a rising power will inevitably seek hegemony. This assumption represents typical hegemonic thinking and is grounded in memories of catastrophic wars between hegemonic powers in the past. China has never accepted that once a country becomes strong enough, it will invariably seek hegemony. China understands the lesson of history – that hegemony preludes decline. We pursue development and revitalization through our own efforts, rather than invasion or expansion. And everything we do is for the purpose of providing a better life for our people, all the while creating more development opportunities for the entire world, not in order to supersede or subjugate others.

SMH that b thinks this is some kind of refutation of the idea that the CCP (“communist” in name only, it should be remembered) will not at some stage seek hegemony.
Empire-building may indeed lead to the ruling country’s ultimate collapse, but during the expansion phase – which can last centuries – it bring its elites great riches, influence and power.
Unless you think the Chinese are somehow genetically immune to the siren calls of power, I see no way of being at all confident that China won’t follow in the footsteps of every other rising power, unless checked by outside powers.
I mean, you can see this with their internal politics – Mao and Xi, for instance, and the CCP itself exercise hegemonic power over the Chinese citizenry.
And no, I’m not claiming the US/Anglo empire is any better… just that the sorts of people who “rise” to the top in any large country are people who care most about power and are willing to do the most to acquire it. And these are not people who put “the people” first – they put themselves first.

Posted by: Observer | Sep 28 2023 15:14 utc | 186

Other strategic statements by China, like the one issued in 2013 that laid the ground for its Belt and Road program, had been dismissed when they were issued. But the record shows that China acts on such programs exactly as its papers promise to do. It profits from doing so.
Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

Great article, good discussion.
I think it fair to say that China walks its talk – also true for the BRI-BRICS+ initiative. In marked contrast to the Decadent West which only spews Lies.
China as a regional Big Dog is not averse to pushing its weight around, but that’s not the same as hegemony. The multipolar vision assumes vast networks of global commerce yoked together by mutual benefit. Sounds excellent, truly.
My problem is with opacity. With China, for example, there is either distorted Western coverage (which I rarely if ever read) or self-promoting Global Times and/or CPC official papers. Nowhere have found insightful, well-informed criticism. Quite possibly it exists inside China and am unaware, but the impression I get is that this is not encouraged. Disagreements clearly exist – as manifested by regular defenestrations of various Ministers or movements – but such dirty laundry is not aired in public. So perhaps there is a widespread ‘don’t rock the boat’ mentality which seems to work well, but makes the whole thing overly opaque. It’s either China Bad or China Good and nothing in between. That makes me unable to trust.
Also, if the multipolarity movement ends up aligned with the Great Reset & Agenda 2030, along with benevolent multipolarity we will have a digitized One World Order which will almost certainly run by totalitarian Bad Actors, probably from the get-go. Making multipolarity a sales pitch for a new form of Unipolarity.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 28 2023 15:16 utc | 187

Other strategic statements by China, like the one issued in 2013 that laid the ground for its Belt and Road program, had been dismissed when they were issued. But the record shows that China acts on such programs exactly as its papers promise to do. It profits from doing so.
Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

Great article, good discussion.
I think it fair to say that China walks its talk – also true for the BRI-BRICS+ initiative. In marked contrast to the Decadent West which only spews Lies.
China as a regional Big Dog is not averse to pushing its weight around, but that’s not the same as hegemony. The multipolar vision assumes vast networks of global commerce yoked together by mutual benefit. Sounds excellent, truly.
My problem is with opacity. With China, for example, there is either distorted Western coverage (which I rarely if ever read) or self-promoting Global Times and/or CPC official papers. Nowhere have found insightful, well-informed criticism. Quite possibly it exists inside China and am unaware, but the impression I get is that this is not encouraged. Disagreements clearly exist – as manifested by regular defenestrations of various Ministers or movements – but such dirty laundry is not aired in public. So perhaps there is a widespread ‘don’t rock the boat’ mentality which seems to work well, but makes the whole thing overly opaque. It’s either China Bad or China Good and nothing in between. That makes me unable to trust.
Also, if the multipolarity movement ends up aligned with the Great Reset & Agenda 2030, along with benevolent multipolarity we will have a digitized One World Order which will almost certainly run by totalitarian Bad Actors, probably from the get-go. Making multipolarity a sales pitch for a new form of Unipolarity.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 28 2023 15:16 utc | 188

The Chinese position is, very simply, the only alternative that we have to disaster and galloping extinction.
If the re-iterated conventionalities of the “human nature means that we must always murder one another…” type, are true then the entire human race and numerous other species are doomed within a few decades.
But there is nothing ievitable about this, we simply have to do what the Chinese, who are saying what all sensible people of all races know, suggest. Which is to disempower the maniacs who keep starting wars- and we know who they are and where they live-and start acting in the clearly discernible, public interest.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 28 2023 15:17 utc | 189

The Chinese position is, very simply, the only alternative that we have to disaster and galloping extinction.
If the re-iterated conventionalities of the “human nature means that we must always murder one another…” type, are true then the entire human race and numerous other species are doomed within a few decades.
But there is nothing ievitable about this, we simply have to do what the Chinese, who are saying what all sensible people of all races know, suggest. Which is to disempower the maniacs who keep starting wars- and we know who they are and where they live-and start acting in the clearly discernible, public interest.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 28 2023 15:17 utc | 190

Posted by: TG | Sep 28 2023 11:28 utc | 30

However: after Mao’s disastrous “strength through numbers” pro-natalist population explosion nearly tore the country apart, the Chinese government has lifted over a billion people out of poverty. Unlike the United States, which has opened the borders to unlimited third-world invasion specifically to drive wages down and rents and profits up, China has not declared war on its working class.

Sigh. The Chinese government’s policies led to tens of millions of Chinese dying of starvation and leading lives of abject poverty. It was only once they dropped socialism and allowed the private ownership of the means of production and distribution that the citizenry began their climb out of poverty.
China’s capitalists (with the help of a lot of FDI and expertise) are what “lifted over a billion people out of poverty”. The most you can say about the CCP is that they stepped aside enough to enable the capitalists to do their job – making the rest of us rich enough to forget how we got where we are in the first place.

Posted by: Observer | Sep 28 2023 15:21 utc | 191

Posted by: TG | Sep 28 2023 11:28 utc | 30

However: after Mao’s disastrous “strength through numbers” pro-natalist population explosion nearly tore the country apart, the Chinese government has lifted over a billion people out of poverty. Unlike the United States, which has opened the borders to unlimited third-world invasion specifically to drive wages down and rents and profits up, China has not declared war on its working class.

Sigh. The Chinese government’s policies led to tens of millions of Chinese dying of starvation and leading lives of abject poverty. It was only once they dropped socialism and allowed the private ownership of the means of production and distribution that the citizenry began their climb out of poverty.
China’s capitalists (with the help of a lot of FDI and expertise) are what “lifted over a billion people out of poverty”. The most you can say about the CCP is that they stepped aside enough to enable the capitalists to do their job – making the rest of us rich enough to forget how we got where we are in the first place.

Posted by: Observer | Sep 28 2023 15:21 utc | 192

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:31 utc | 31
From one ethnic Chinese to another – chill. I get that it is easy to be irritated by how China is portrayed. Here though, I encourage you to look more candidly at those who express legitimate, informed concerns. If anything, we need their voices so that those in the Chinese government know what to measure and can point to it. Data is important. I don’t want to see a repeat of those days in which Chinese were bigoted and arrogant towards the rest of the world, that led to the disaster of our collective modern history.
Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49
I would not consider this to be informed though. Investments into UHVDC, saline-alkaline aquaculture, and HSR speak otherwise. China just doesn’t buy the whole aid tagline motivated by Anglo-Christian “charity,” and instead is more interested in teaching Uighurs how to fish (literally and figuratively).
Keep in mind it is a mistake to also think of the region of solely consisting of Uighurs. That is something the WUC has been trying to push as a natural phenomenon, when it is really a consequence of the typical “conquer and purge” cycles that Qing China and Yaqub Beg also carried out. Rather, we should welcome the current norm, which is largely informed by Zuo Zongtang’s policies and whatever the Chinese government continues to espouse in terms of “harmony of the nations/races.” Western press tried to make a molehill out of Chen Quanguo’s hardline policies, pretending that he was representative of the entire government. Accusations in the 90s over Uighur slave labor and in 2008 surrounding the then-fury over Tibet from the WUC were all red herrings, and the latest salvo is no different aside from the increased funding in creating the megaphones known as Adrian Zenz and ASPI. The US didn’t care about the World Bank’s findings in the 90s disproving their claims. Why would they care about the truth today?

Posted by: Run | Sep 28 2023 15:23 utc | 193

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:31 utc | 31
From one ethnic Chinese to another – chill. I get that it is easy to be irritated by how China is portrayed. Here though, I encourage you to look more candidly at those who express legitimate, informed concerns. If anything, we need their voices so that those in the Chinese government know what to measure and can point to it. Data is important. I don’t want to see a repeat of those days in which Chinese were bigoted and arrogant towards the rest of the world, that led to the disaster of our collective modern history.
Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49
I would not consider this to be informed though. Investments into UHVDC, saline-alkaline aquaculture, and HSR speak otherwise. China just doesn’t buy the whole aid tagline motivated by Anglo-Christian “charity,” and instead is more interested in teaching Uighurs how to fish (literally and figuratively).
Keep in mind it is a mistake to also think of the region of solely consisting of Uighurs. That is something the WUC has been trying to push as a natural phenomenon, when it is really a consequence of the typical “conquer and purge” cycles that Qing China and Yaqub Beg also carried out. Rather, we should welcome the current norm, which is largely informed by Zuo Zongtang’s policies and whatever the Chinese government continues to espouse in terms of “harmony of the nations/races.” Western press tried to make a molehill out of Chen Quanguo’s hardline policies, pretending that he was representative of the entire government. Accusations in the 90s over Uighur slave labor and in 2008 surrounding the then-fury over Tibet from the WUC were all red herrings, and the latest salvo is no different aside from the increased funding in creating the megaphones known as Adrian Zenz and ASPI. The US didn’t care about the World Bank’s findings in the 90s disproving their claims. Why would they care about the truth today?

Posted by: Run | Sep 28 2023 15:23 utc | 194

China’s “shared future” where they run the world. I can’t see what could go wrong. They are huge on personal freedom and rights.

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 28 2023 15:32 utc | 195

China’s “shared future” where they run the world. I can’t see what could go wrong. They are huge on personal freedom and rights.

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 28 2023 15:32 utc | 196

What the representatives of the USA really mean: they fear that they can no longer impose their will on other peoples.
From their point of view, of course, this also goes hand in hand with the idea that the goals of the USA are also the goals of other peoples.
The law of the strongest is lived out behind a facade of words such as democracy and so on.
Coexistence is seen as the product of weakness, because a winner takes “all”!
For states like Germany, the current development offers a ray of hope (hopefully it won’t be too bright). Those who suffer under US hegemony do not fear China’s growing influence.
Currently, wars are financed, organised and waged from German soil. The states concerned could rightly attack Germany, as it serves as a base for US forces.
This could also be done in a terrorist manner. Afghans, Syrians, many African countries etc. could come up with the idea of punishing the perpetrators.
In return, our energy security will be attacked and then our economy targeted.
As long as there is even one homeless person in Germany, every cent spent on the US military is a slap in the face to the German taxpayer.
And even after homelessness has been overcome, there would be better uses for our tax money.
The US does not need to wage wars, it does not need hegemony.
Apparently, however, the productivity of the US population is not sufficient to enable the children of a billionaire to live a billionaire existence in the long run. When wealth (and thus power) is concentrated among individuals in a system, there is a lack of it in the system itself.
The masses are then kept in suspense with illusions.
In such a system, the insight of Volker Pispers applies:
“Everyone can become rich, but not everyone!

Posted by: 600w | Sep 28 2023 15:33 utc | 197

What the representatives of the USA really mean: they fear that they can no longer impose their will on other peoples.
From their point of view, of course, this also goes hand in hand with the idea that the goals of the USA are also the goals of other peoples.
The law of the strongest is lived out behind a facade of words such as democracy and so on.
Coexistence is seen as the product of weakness, because a winner takes “all”!
For states like Germany, the current development offers a ray of hope (hopefully it won’t be too bright). Those who suffer under US hegemony do not fear China’s growing influence.
Currently, wars are financed, organised and waged from German soil. The states concerned could rightly attack Germany, as it serves as a base for US forces.
This could also be done in a terrorist manner. Afghans, Syrians, many African countries etc. could come up with the idea of punishing the perpetrators.
In return, our energy security will be attacked and then our economy targeted.
As long as there is even one homeless person in Germany, every cent spent on the US military is a slap in the face to the German taxpayer.
And even after homelessness has been overcome, there would be better uses for our tax money.
The US does not need to wage wars, it does not need hegemony.
Apparently, however, the productivity of the US population is not sufficient to enable the children of a billionaire to live a billionaire existence in the long run. When wealth (and thus power) is concentrated among individuals in a system, there is a lack of it in the system itself.
The masses are then kept in suspense with illusions.
In such a system, the insight of Volker Pispers applies:
“Everyone can become rich, but not everyone!

Posted by: 600w | Sep 28 2023 15:33 utc | 198

The only problem here is how china will react when america starts attacking its projects in other countries, if it is not already doing so now.

Posted by: Tomp | Sep 28 2023 15:36 utc | 199

The only problem here is how china will react when america starts attacking its projects in other countries, if it is not already doing so now.

Posted by: Tomp | Sep 28 2023 15:36 utc | 200