Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 28, 2023

China's 'Shared Future'

The U.S. fears that China's growth will lead to a competition between the countries over hegemony on earth.

But China rejects hegemony. No only the one the U.S. is obviously trying to achieve but, more general, also for itself.

Yesterday the Global Times editorial pointed to a new guideline paper issued by China's State Council:

On September 26, China's State Council Information Office released a white paper titled "A Global Community of Shared Future: China's Proposals and Actions." Against the backdrop of the 10th anniversary of President Xi Jinping's proposal of building a global community of shared future, China has introduced the theoretical base, practice and development of a global community of shared future, and points the way toward a better future for the world. Anyone, be they are developing countries seeking to learn from China or individuals from Western countries who are interested in gaining a deeper understanding of China, will find inspiration in it as long as they approach it without biased views.
...
Human society is now facing a "life-or-death choice:" whether to enter into a vicious cycle of continuous confrontation and division or to seek a path of cooperation and win-win, ultimately allowing more than 7 billion people to have a better life. The whole world is searching for answers. This also confirms the highly prescient and forward-looking nature of the concept of a global community of shared future.
...
Today's world has become a community of shared future, with countries riding together on a ship of shared fate. A small boat cannot withstand the wind and waves, only a giant vessel can withstand the stormy seas. No matter how powerful a country may be, it cannot dominate the world alone and must engage in global cooperation.

As the white paper says, "This is an integrated world. Those who turn their back on it will have no place in it." In such a world, the true power that transcends time is contained in the silent and subtle ideas, just like the practical greatness demonstrated by the concept of global community of shared future.

The paper is available here.

It is 22,000 words long but quite readable. It is a recipe for a just and equalitarian world that will peacefully develop for everyone while allowing for a diversity of cultures and ideologies. It is thus building on China's decade old concept of a Community of Common Destiny for Mankind.

The most interesting part is probably this paragraph:

There is no iron law that dictates that a rising power will inevitably seek hegemony. This assumption represents typical hegemonic thinking and is grounded in memories of catastrophic wars between hegemonic powers in the past. China has never accepted that once a country becomes strong enough, it will invariably seek hegemony. China understands the lesson of history – that hegemony preludes decline. We pursue development and revitalization through our own efforts, rather than invasion or expansion. And everything we do is for the purpose of providing a better life for our people, all the while creating more development opportunities for the entire world, not in order to supersede or subjugate others.

Other strategic statements by China, like the one issued in 2013 that laid the ground for its Belt and Road program, had been dismissed when they were issued. But the record shows that China acts on such programs exactly as its papers promise to do. It profits from doing so.

Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

Should we therefore trust its claims that it rejects hegemony, not only of others but also for itself?

Posted by b on September 28, 2023 at 8:54 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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I don't know whether the thesis that hegemony preludes decline is true or not, but history says it is.

Posted by: marcel | Sep 28 2023 9:01 utc | 1

Can we ask a Uighur living in China for their feedback?

I mean that.

I accept and embrace the principle of global cooperation that you quote from this paper. I hope it is sincere. But if the Chinese exempt themselves (just like we preach "democracy" and then undermine our own elections (e.g., 2020) from these principles, then count me as pessimistic.

Posted by: Paul Schneider | Sep 28 2023 9:15 utc | 2

Posted by: Paul Schneider | Sep 28 2023 9:15 utc | 2

You can ask of course, let us know what they say instead of pumping NAFO|OFAN pure propaganda before you ask.

Posted by: martin | Sep 28 2023 9:20 utc | 3

Historically China has rejected hegemony. But are they talking about global hegemony or regional? The US hegemon will fall sooner than later. At that point what will take its place? Likely regional hegemonies and multipolarity, and China already has outsized influence in East Asia. Does that count as a hegemony?

Posted by: James M. | Sep 28 2023 9:35 utc | 4

I don't know about hegemony but the fate of the world depends upon Xi's successor which is unfortunately both completely opaque and soon approaching.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 28 2023 9:38 utc | 5

US global hegemony is under threat, and like all empires before it thinks it is invincible. But everyone forgets uncomfortable history – thinking in the present all has changed. They ignore the chilling logic of imperialism: every empire/civilization eventually meets the war it is trying to avoid – its own defeat; everyone wants to avoid WW III; therefore nuclear Armageddon awaits. Until those in power grasp this simple syllogism humanity’s fate is sealed.
https://patternofhistory.wordpress.com/

Posted by: peter mcloughlin | Sep 28 2023 9:51 utc | 6

- The idea that hegemony leads to decline is like saying there is sunshine after rain: it's bound to happen if you wait long enough. You don't know how long this hegemony will last even if you can see mechanisms that accelerate it once it gets going.

- I would distinguish between organic dominance and making it a strategic aim. If China becomes more powerful it will dominate more and there will be more cases where it gets it way. It will control the South China Sea if it can, because it is strategically important for them to keep it open.
The approach where dominance is a goal in itself comes naturally for the US and less naturally for China but when there are advantages to it it may still happen for China as well.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Sep 28 2023 9:57 utc | 7

Hegemony means leadership, supremacy, predominance or even constraint. Not only in terms of governance, but in cultural, ideological, economic and religious areas. I believe in leading by one's own example. Don't do to others what you don't want to suffer yourself. Live and let live. Not only sharing prosperity with others, but also adversity such as climate change. This means fair trade agreements that leave room for the other party's development. Abolition of patents and therefore 100% sharing of discoveries.

On a global scale, this requires a reformed United Nations that builds on existing international law and has executive powers. In such a system, the degree of development worldwide gradually increases. Mature economies will still be able to grow, but less rapidly than those of countries that have not yet reached a “mature” degree of their economy. There does not necessarily have to be a decline. Many people will label such a state as idealistic, daydreaming or even naive. But it is a situation worth defending on a global forum and demonstrating it through ones own actions, setting an example.

Posted by: Paul-Robert | Sep 28 2023 10:08 utc | 8

Posted by: Paul Schneider | Sep 28 2023 9:15 utc | 2

Can we ask a Russian living in USAEU for their feedback?

Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 10:18 utc | 9

Good golly the synchronicity is amazing. I just read comments & wrote for last few hours and posted this on the last thread only to find this new post has gone up.
I guess it equally belongs here. Right will need a few days to read that white paper!

@ Posted by: drezz0 | Sep 28 2023 7:10 utc | 201
Exactly - the trajectory of history that is curiously missed by many. Wilfully?

Anyway a screed to tail this thread.

The natzios weren’t invented by a religious sub group , they have always been around.
The Holy Roman Empire has never gotten over the loss of the Byzantine ’brother’ and the great silk, spice and fertility Road that is the jewel of the World Island.
The millenia and half has been a never ending attempt to gain supremacy over that majority of humanity and the majority of the land mass of the Earth.
Within that context many variations of imperialism have been tried using every single part of European identity creation - the ‘Nation States’. Including the creation of the hybrid , mongrel , nationality of ‘American’.
The current panicked enrolment of millions more into that American Dream is to fight the next centuries war , to gain control of the World and its resources. Because this attempt has also failed and the there will be many billions who will refuse to kowtow, hand over their wealth and lay down and die as is expected of them , and most of us!
Tens of millions will be needed , hundreds even, to fight to the last again in the old madness of imperialism and slavery of the majority.
There is not much difference between the Nazis and their creators.
That is the purpose of hopefully the last empire in the chain now, the USA. But the City of London never diminished! Neither did the few aristos and financiers of Old Europe - who have never stopped benefiting from every empire.

That should be the easiest pointer for many to how interconnected all Collective Western imperialism is and why. As a few here have clearly seen it is an Empire of Lies.

The true destiny of humanity is in a robust interconnectedness.
This is best achieved by a grid system for all necessities - including Gas. The natzios didnt want that and they work against the inevitability.

Some did realise and have tried to move instead to true democratic socialism which puts the raising of the poorest above all else. That provision of security for ALL is the highest aim. Through collaboration and mutual support. They moved the EU in that direction , that is why that EU has been targeted and is nearly destroyed now under the jackboots of unelected Nazis.
https://x.com/canthavepudding/status/1707084734868881699
Julien Benda on X
😆
That’s why there was a delay until Mutti was gone.
Merkel did build the pipeline ! Even though she was just an imperial lackey, She did work with Putin. Putin has worked with Xi. They knew this was a once in several lifetimes chance to finally lift the yoke of the bereft, jealous, avaricious brother who broke from the one world and decided to live behind a walled garden with its ‘happy slaves’ whilst engaging in furious pillage and murder beyond these walls.

The destruction or what seems at best delaying of a EU/EuraAsian block is the aim. The attempt will fail as has every attempt at ‘taking Russia’ and Central Asia and China.
The centuries long grasp and exploitation of Africa, Indo pacific and Latin Americas is too failing. The BRI is coming to their aid.
With actual investment and if needed- the largest armies in the world - now fully battle hardened.

Hell yeah, this is our Masters and Owners running for the hills , by opening the borders and destroying their industries in Europe which they see slipping away finally into the arms of its World Island family.

They need 10’s of millions of canon fodder, brainwashed like the current Ukrops. Yanks, Canuks and Europeans in our 5 eyed dystopia who have never realised they were made to harbour their grandparents enemies aren’t enough - the golden billion plan can’t succeed otherwise. The very few who live in the high palaces will fall and they are fighting to the end. They would kill billions in the attempt leaving waste lands behind that they can’t own.

The answer is to stop them before they do.
They need ‘exterminating’ like the old witch doctors and priests who exploited ignorance.

The multipolar is the answer.

There will be many more pipelines, railways and security for all.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 28 2023 9:53 utc | 215

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 28 2023 10:18 utc | 10

China has repeatedly declared they are not interested in hegemony in any form.
They are interested in win-win formula, without interference in internal affairs.


Posted by: Paul Schneider | Sep 28 2023 9:15 utc
What utter rubbish are you gibbering! What interference in your elections?
What Uyghurs do you want to ask?

Get a tourist visa and enter China, then go straight to Xinjiang and you can ask every Uyghur you see.
I live in China for 10 years and the CPC is the best pro people govt in the world. There are Uyghurs in my tier 4 Angyang City.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:19 utc | 11

Posted by: too scents | Sep 28 2023 9:38 utc | 6

You're not paying attention.
The next Chairman is Li Qiang the current Premier who appeared in the G20 to let world leaders get to know him.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:22 utc | 12

This is Karloff's own article on the new Chinese paper.

https://karlof1.substack.com/p/chinas-many-proposed-global-initiatives

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:25 utc | 13

That's it, the US will never tolerate such blaspheme. An egalitarian world ruled by justice and fairness? WTF, this goes against EVERYTHING the USA stands for. War, domination, subjugation, chaos, violence, genocide. ThIS WILL NOT STAND!

Posted by: deepblue | Sep 28 2023 10:26 utc | 14

@soothsayer

The hallmark of all IDIOTS is talking without knowledge:

GDP/Capita (PPP) (IMF 2023)

Russia 34,837$
China 23,382$

Posted by: tkilian | Sep 28 2023 10:28 utc | 15

With the exception of the Mongols, China has rarely been internationally aggressive. It's international authority has long been through trade and scientific development, so this strategy paper is a comfortable fit for it. As a (still largely Buddhist) culture, it thinks about issues differently from the West. Hegemony as practiced by the US makes little sense to it because - although a stable center is desirable - the three poisons of greed, anger and stupidity are self destructive. Government which does not take responsibility for the people may look strong, but it is actually weak because it must fight with itself and externally to prove itself. Real strength is achieving harmony. That's the lesson from a very long history of dynasties and emperors.

Posted by: TPaine | Sep 28 2023 10:30 utc | 16

The PRC's real intention is a balanced world where developed/upper developing countries (Europe, Iran, Russia, Vietnam etc) live freely in peace while bottom third world countries (Africa, Iraq) will be colonies. Since the latter situation is obviously not available to PRC, you can embellish the situation with saying of 'equality for everyone' and economically compromised trading and superficial donation, which is better than nothing.

Posted by: T6 | Sep 28 2023 10:31 utc | 17

OMG, the naivety on this site only about one group - the CPC; all other power groups on Earth are questioned, rightly.

Salving words vs contrary actions on the ground; did two millennia of Roman Christianity not teach anything? The CPC is financial dire straights so it will tell foreigners now exactly what they want hear. Local Chinese know the actual ground reality there and it aint pretty. The Great Chinese Firewall blocks 95% of views in or out.

Chinese "communism" is just a new gift wrapping of the same - faulty content: Homo sapiens inability to live harmoniously due to (group) egoism. Its is not only Western robber "capitalism that is broke.

Luckily Evolution is on the move, and we can participate personally by dropping desires, greed, ideologies, tunnel visions etc. Then the move becomes more visible, with or without internet.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 28 2023 10:36 utc | 18

Thank you tkilian for setting the "sootsayer" straight.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 28 2023 10:39 utc | 19

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 28 2023 10:36 utc | 19

Thus spoke the official Bharat troll, congenital Hater of China and all things China.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:41 utc | 20

Posted by: T6 | Sep 28 2023 10:31 utc | 18

Changing the countries this is the 'de facto' situation in the west dominated world.

This is not what China claims it want to do.

If China claim is true it's to be verified.

Shure a multipolar 'governance' , let's say Russia, China & India has more chances to be equilibrate than an hegemonic one, think about monopolism Vs competition.


Posted by: Mario | Sep 28 2023 10:44 utc | 21

Read this. Its simpler and gives a general summary of the paper.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202309/1298963.shtml

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:48 utc | 22

China is now opened to foreign visitors. Get a visa and see China with your own eyes. Not the gibberish of paid trolls, the fabrications of US and their vassals.

https://www.visaforchina.cn/YVR2_EN/

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:51 utc | 23

This is the result of this "hegemony" that all of you love. No money for her own citizens. Why US don't have high speed train? Ah China's fault.

China spend her money on her people. That's 1.44 billion reasons why China under the CPC will not be hegemonic in any way.

-------
US Secretary of Transport said Chinese don't deserve better things than Americans.

"And for my dime, there’s no good reason why we should settle for less, why we should be content that — it’s nothing against Chinese citizens, but I’m not content that a Chinese citizen can count on a dramatically better standard of, let’s say, train travel than a U.S. citizen. I think Americans should always have the best, and I think that’s the tone that the President sets every day."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/04/09/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-and-secretary-of-transportation-pete-buttigieg-april-9-2021/

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:59 utc | 24

***
I greatly admire China... Same cannot be said for the so-called Russian Federation, which ... now has a GDP per capita below that of China. Best future for Russia would be for it's natural resources to fall under competent Chinese management.
Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 28 2023 9:36 utc | 5
***
52 Russia GDP/C PPP $36,485 GDP/C NOM $15,482
72 China GDP/C PPP $21,476 GDP/C NOM $12,598
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/
***
SOOTHSAYER = TRUTHDENIER?
Get facts right, then post.

Posted by: Kaiama | Sep 28 2023 10:59 utc | 25

If you look at Chinese propaganda posters from Mao's era, everyone is chubby. That's because there was mass starvation in China thanks to Mao's policies. I suspect this article is similarly reality-based.

Posted by: JDaveF | Sep 28 2023 11:16 utc | 26

This is really going to piss the warmongers off. Good.

@marcel #1:

Yes, I quite agree, the one thing immature people cannot handle is supreme success. And nothing is more excessive than thinking you are going to rule the planet forever.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 28 2023 11:22 utc | 27

Well done to China for rejecting hegemony, at least in its rhetoric, and to be fair, in its lack of military aggression on the way to achieving its superpower status.

Can someone explain how that rhetoric fits into its 9-Dash line, which blatantly encroaches on territorial claims of its smaller neighbours? Which is the chicken, which is the egg, when one considers China's perceived threat from the US Navy surrounding its shipping routes and ports on one hand, and its hegemonic attitude in bullying its smaller neighbours on the other?

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 28 2023 11:23 utc | 28

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 28 2023 11:23 utc | 29

That's a concerned troll.

Start with 11 Dash Line. Who did it and who supported it with the ships to mark it.
Come back and tell us your findings.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:27 utc | 29

China is not perfect, China is not my friend. Noble words on paper about not seeking hegemony are just words on paper, we will see.

However: after Mao's disastrous "strength through numbers" pro-natalist population explosion nearly tore the country apart, the Chinese government has lifted over a billion people out of poverty. Unlike the United States, which has opened the borders to unlimited third-world invasion specifically to drive wages down and rents and profits up, China has not declared war on its working class.

Compare this to India, where the country is now in the grips of the Malthusian catastrophe, and population growth is tracking food production at a low level of subsistence, people have few children but only because they are so miserably impoverished that it is physically impossible for them to have more, and the government thinks this is great, wonderful! All that cheap labor, how profitable!

For all its flaws, current-day China deserves a lot of respect. If I were ethnic Chinese, I would probably not want to moe there now, but I would certainly keep it in mind for the future.

Posted by: TG | Sep 28 2023 11:28 utc | 30

Posted by: TG | Sep 28 2023 11:28 utc | 31

Have you been to China?

I'm ethnically Chinese and I'm in China for past 10 years. I'd give my left balls for Chinese citizenship But there are 1.44 billion reasons against.

", I would probably not want to moe there now"

Have you actually lived in China to make such an informed opinion?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:31 utc | 31

Whenever the subject matter concerns Russia and China, you see the armchair experts pontificating on bad Russia and bad China.

This shows how successful the media brainwashing has been on global level.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:35 utc | 32

Surely the thing about Chinese leadership (and Russian to an extent) is that they don't actively seem to hate their own people, indeed they seem rather proud of them.

I wish Western leaders were like that, instead they seem determined to diminish and impoverish us.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 28 2023 11:41 utc | 33

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 28 2023 11:41 utc | 34

You're kidding. You mean rulers should hate their ruled subjects?

The mandate of the CPC to rule China comes from the Chinese people since 1921, founding of the CPC. During the course of the Chinese civil war between the CPC and the KMT it was the Chinese people who backed the CPC, enabling them to beat the KMT.

Today that's 1.44 billion people to keep happy. And hegemony is not what the Chinese people wants.
The Chinese people want to see a better tomorrow, not nation's wealth and blood of the people squandered in Wars of conquests.

And China has 56 ethnic groups to keep happy.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:52 utc | 34

Same cannot be said for the so-called Russian Federation, which despite sitting on oodles of oil and gas, now has a GDP per capita below that of China.

Best future for Russia would be for it's natural resources to fall under competent Chinese management.

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 28 2023 9:36 utc | 5

I disagree.....

Russia's natural resources should be under Soothsayer's management....

After which...

Russia's GDP / capita will fall to the desired asymptote..... ZERO!!

For....

That is what Soothsayer's handlers.... MI6/CIA/NSA/SBU.... crave....

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 11:53 utc | 35

@2 Paul Schneider

"Can we ask a Uighur living in China for their feedback?"

About what, Paul?

Do you want to ask them about their opinion of the inevitability or otherwise of global conflict between great powers?

Or do you want to ask them about their opinion of being a minority ethnicity within a predominantly Chinese nation-state?

Which one?

Because you do understand that those are not at all the same question, right?

"I mean that."

No, I doubt that very much.

How a country deals with minority rights amongst its own citizenry is not even REMOTELY related with how that same country interacts with other states on the global stage.

A case in point: the USA insists upon the equality of all its citizens within its union-state. But it bullies, browbeats, invades and stomps upon the independence of other states around the globe.

These two things are not related to each other, and there is no reason to assume that they should be related.

"I accept and embrace the principle of global cooperation that you quote from this paper."

As does China.

"I hope it is sincere."

Apparently it is.

"But if the Chinese exempt themselves (just like we preach "democracy" and then undermine our own elections (e.g., 2020) from these principles,"

Whoah, hey, hang on a minute. In what way is Chinese treatment of their own minorities within its own borders in any way an "exemption" from how states interact with each other?

One is an entirely internal affair, the other is a case of international relations.

They are not the same thing. They aren't REMOTELY the same thing.

"then count me as pessimistic."

Not pessimistic. "Muddled" would be the better word, and that's being generous.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 28 2023 12:01 utc | 36

DunGramin 11

I agree multipolar is the answer.

But once the multiploar society gets rich, they then want dominance.
Multipolarity is the entrance door, but then the poor immigrants turn out to aspire to hegemony. Anybody , even China, who thinks hegemony is now within their grasp, will seize the opportunity. Whoever it is and wherever they come from. Human nature.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 28 2023 12:09 utc | 37

Imperial double speak. Everyone speaks of noble causes but none act upon them. Empire is expansive:
China - Xinjiang, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Qinghai, etc.
Russia - Tatar, Khazak,Buryat, Titulars, etc.
UK- Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Falklands, Diago Garcia, Gibraltar, etc
USA - Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, American Samoa, etc.
France - Saint Martin, Reunion, New Caledonia, etc.
Netherlands - Netherlands Antilles, etc.
Turkey - Turkey.

Every nation today is product of a few if not dozens or hundreds of conquests over mellenia. Prime example Mongols from away have displaced local population and we have Turkey. Americas are inhabited by imperialists from away after slaughtering local populations.

Just like a Chihuahua by any other name is still a rat in a sweater. You can call it what you wish but, game of empires continues.

Posted by: Saag | Sep 28 2023 12:12 utc | 38

Never forget that China is about to collapse because of a overabundance of modern housing. (At least according to NPR)

Posted by: Exile | Sep 28 2023 12:14 utc | 39

I shall put faith in their nice words if they create a good settlement for passage in the South China sea and settle differences with India. OTOH, even if China does become Number One, I doubt they will ever create the sort of wreckage that the US and its EU vassals have done. They're just too inward looking and alien relative to the rest of the world.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 12:17 utc | 40

Humans (regardless of race, creed or colour) have some well earned/deserved idioms based on long enduring cyclical historical validity.

Here are a couple that come to mind in regards to this article:

1) Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

2) Everyone supports a competitive environment, until one player finds a way to achieve monopoly power, then the last thing the new monopolist wants is to maintain this competitive environment.

Humans are corrupt and all we are witnessing now is new competitors, cooperating for the time being, to oust the current monopolist power, in order to create space for the fight for a new monopolist power to fill the void.

Human nature! The players are different, but the plot is the same.

Posted by: James Cook | Sep 28 2023 12:21 utc | 41

@29 Rubiconned

"Can someone explain how that rhetoric fits into its 9-Dash line, which blatantly encroaches on territorial claims of its smaller neighbours? "

Our key phrase for today is "territorial claims".

You are describing a territorial dispute, which is not at all uncommon.

China insists that its territorial claim to those islands is superior to those of its neighbours. Vietnam and the Philippines disagree because, gosh!, it wouldn't be a territorial dispute otherwise.

"Which is the chicken, which is the egg, when one considers China's perceived threat from the US Navy surrounding its shipping routes and ports on one hand, and its hegemonic attitude in bullying its smaller neighbours on the other?"

A country has to defend its own territorial integrity. The Chinese are very touchy about that concept, as well they should be after a century of humiliation where colonial powers forced China to cede or lease territory against its will.

Again, I have to stress that the Chinese aren't saying that these are Vietnamese islands or Philippine Islands, that they want to take from the rightful sovereign and annex to China.

No, they are insisting that China has *always* been the rightful sovereign, and that the principle of sovereign territorial integrity is something they should not be required to compromise on.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 28 2023 12:24 utc | 42

When I look for the link, it's not there. Is the west blocking the paper?

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Sep 28 2023 12:27 utc | 43

All it boils down to exporting my inflation to you in my denominated currency. Are you taking the deal ?

Posted by: KD | Sep 28 2023 12:28 utc | 44

Regarding those who want to ask Uyghurs:

- fly there for yourself and ask them
- alternatively start here and follow the hundreds of sources:

https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 12:34 utc | 45

@41 Eighthman, it may have escaped your notice but the Chinese have never blocked any ship seeking passage through the South China Sea.

Not a one. Not ever. Not a single merchant ship of any nationality has ever been prevented from sailing through that sea.

They don't even seek to block passage by US Navy warships.

They simply complain - correctly, in my humble opinion - that such exercises are deliberate provocations done for no other reason than to rile the Chinese and, as such, can not be regarded as falling into the category of "innocent passage".

But again, they complain through the proper channels: they don't block passage, they go to the relevant international bodies and they protest such boorish behavior.

As for India, that is a territorial dispute. Lots and lots of countries - big ones, little ones, middling-sized ones - have territorial disputes with neighbors.

They are usually very messy things, and in this case there are two very large and very powerful countries locked in this territorial dispute, I wouldn't be quite so quick to point the finger of blame at China over this one.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 28 2023 12:36 utc | 46

By the way, a non-PDF version of the original doc can be found here:

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/202309/t20230926_11150122.html

It’s better to link to as well as to annotate.

Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 12:38 utc | 47

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 12:17 utc | 41

since when China has blocked passage in SCS where 80% of the shipping go to /from China, HK, DieOne. China blockade China?
China doesn't even block the extremely provocative passages of US Navy and their poodles through the Straits of Taiwan, even though China could do it asymmetrically.

China settled all border disputes with Russia. India absolutely refused to negotiate, insisting on taking Tibet, Arunachal, parts of Sichuan.
Who is being unreasonable?
You do know where Sichuan is right?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 12:49 utc | 48

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 10:19 utc | 12

Get a tourist visa and enter USA, then go straight to Chikago and you can ask every Russian you see.

Did the Chinese take
ur financial assets ?
ur property?
ur car?
and gave to Russians?

P.S
Why u dont take the Uigurs and give them housing, food, car ?

Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49

With the exception of the Mongols, China has rarely been internationally aggressive.
Posted by: TPaine | Sep 28 2023 10:30 utc | 16

That statement is anachronistic.

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:00 utc | 50

Does anyone actual believe this?
China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines and building islands to justify increased sea claim. They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51

Posted by: Kaiama | Sep 28 2023 10:59 utc | 25

I gather, you haven't heard the joke: Bill Gates walks into a bar ...
Anyone who cites GDP, an average, to measure anything is innumerate. That is incapable of differentiating numerator and denominator, whole numbers and fractions, enumeration and estimation, apples and oranges, control and mastery, prejudice and statistical bias LOL ceteris paribus. But prove me wrong. Link World Bank Group's current classification of "national income" on which the IMF relies to structure loan terms. LOL

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:23 utc | 52

per capita

dead or alive.

omfg.

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:25 utc | 53

thx b

guess what - Firefox blocked the download link for the paper.
TOR had to do it instead.

This is embarassing. After all, its human beings, people with families and minds who decide over this kind of censorship.

Posted by: AG | Sep 28 2023 13:30 utc | 54

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51

Why is the South China Sea called the South China Sea?

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 28 2023 13:31 utc | 55

"...China rejects hegemony."

and Islam means Peace.

In other news my good friend, the Nigerian Prince, has decided to divest himself of his trans-East River conveyance device for a fraction of its true value. Get in on the ground floor of this wonderful investment by contacting him at BR-549. Operators are standing by!

Posted by: Tom S. | Sep 28 2023 13:40 utc | 56

In the USA you can be both billionaire and President, and still you can't speak freely.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 28 2023 13:44 utc | 57

China’s “multipolar” and “win-win” cooperation is commerce driven and doesn’t work where “war” operates.

It will never come to pass because “war” will never cease to be a characteristic of humanity.

It’s a desire for market corporate capitalist communism that is “win-win” for investors & stock holders, but not so greedy that it insists on poverty to make a profit.

It would require that ALL Nations return to their Sovereign Status, throwing off imperium dictates & shackles, reconstituting their economies & controlling their own banks, and taking responsibility of their own Sovereigns.
It’s more profitable & easier for most Sovereign leaders to simply carry on as is (I.e. EU).

Which is why “multipolarity” will never actually come into existence. As possible tri-pod of power will exist & that’ll be the end of it.

In addition, look at the difference between Russia and China.. Russia under sanctions from hell, International smear campaigns ect, still honors their “business contracts”, carries on a “win-win” commerce example, irrespective of “unfriendly” moves. China on the other hand, reacts swiftly to Lithuania moves on the Taiwan issue and China economically crushes trade deals.
So this “win-win” thing, is kinda, obscure actually.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 28 2023 13:45 utc | 58

Why u dont take the Uigurs and give them housing, food, car ?

Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49

It's interesting when people pull rabbits out of hats and think they scored a point.

China has 55 ethnic minority groups besides the Han majority.
Here's a breakdown.

Please explain why the only the Uyghurs must be given houses and cars?

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-ethnic-groups-in-china.html#:~:text=Largest%20Ethnic%20Groups%20In%20China%20%20%20,%20%200.78%20%2017%20more%20rows%20

It's very obvious you don't know anything about China beyond the US bullshit. Ethnic minorities are considered national treasures of China, and that's not just for the Uyghurs. They have preferential policies that even the Hans are jealous of.

Find out more real Facts about China and not just regurgitation of US rubbish.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 13:49 utc | 59

I have been a silent reader of MOA for quite some time and whenever the topic of China comes up, some its readers evoke an uninformed and emotional response regarding China. Many of these readers do not believe some matters which the MSM propagates but believe in others. This is known as the Gell-Mann Amnesia: The phenomenon of people trusting newspapers for topics which they are not knowledgeable about, despite recognizing them to be extremely inaccurate on certain topics which they are knowledgeable about.

I have never believed the Uygur genocide myth because I am old enough to remember the Tibet genocide myth propagated in the 1990s. It was absolutely debunked a a group of French journalists after some time. I have looked into the source and origins of the Uygur genocide myth and having studied the issue for some time, my initial hunch was confirmed. However, who am I to convince or even persuade others to read widely, stay skeptical and have an open mind.

In Sept this year, 4 independent German sinologists (2 of whom are the leaders in their field in Germany) and an international law specialist investigated on site on their own initiative in May and returned with their own report. A summary by two of them has been published in the Neue Zurcher Zeitung, a Swiss-German newspaper of record. For those who cannot read German, one can use mechanical translation. The authors traced the contemporary history of Uygur terrorism and how China dealt with it without “genocide”. Those that are interested can read the summary from the link below.

https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/xinjiang-china-kampf-gegen-terrorismus-und-separatismus-ld.1753509


Posted by: Passé-Partout | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 60

Pretty words, to be sure, but alas that is all they may be. Human nature is to always want more. It’s partly a survival thing, hardwired in our DNA, partly societal constructs, but the desire to gain more food, more territory, more money has been shown over and over again for millennia. Somehow I doubt the CCP has devised something to supplant human nature.

Remember these fine words “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"? Noble beyond measure, crystallization of what the human spirit should be. However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61

"They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system."
Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51

Another piece of bullshit. I am a foreigner living in China for more than 10 years. You know China better than me because you read NYT?

This is an example of your tyrannical internal police?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/policeman-bodyslam-woman-baby-video-shanghai-parking-ticket-songjiang-a7924086.html

The officer was jailed for 9 months and sacked from the police force. It means he'll never get another job in the govt service.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 13:54 utc | 62

From a twitter post....
Important :

Russia stopped uranium exports to the US due to lack of insurance coverage - Rosatom

Finally.... the sanctions regime gave RosAtom an excuse to stop U235 exports to USA...

While....

At Los Alomos 17,000 are working feverishly to extract Pu from spent nuclear fuel to make functional atom bomb "pits" or... the core of nuclear bombs...

About time...

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 13:55 utc | 63

China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines and building islands to justify increased sea claim. They also already have a tyrannical internal policing system.

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51

You need to read more. China Haters don't need facts. Their Hate is enough.


Vietnam upgrade Military Posts
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/97948

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia/how-vietnam-quietly-built-10-islands-asias-most-disputed-sea

Vietnam Dredging
http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/satellite-images-appear-to-show-vietnam-dredging-on-disputed-reef-in-spratlys


US Memo to President 1976
Today's US is truly hypocritical!

"All of the countries except the PRC have militarily occupied one or more of the Spratly Islands."

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76ve12/d353

Who is the Real Aggressor in SCS
http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/who-is-the-biggest-aggressor-in-the-south-china-sea/

https://www.eurasiafuture.com/2018/06/02/there-is-one-clear-aggressor-in-the-south-china-sea-and-it-isnt-china/

"Vietnam has established 48 outposts on the Spratlys, whereas China maintains eight."


http://defence.pk/threads/vietnams-newest-tourist-destination-the-spratlys.380422/

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/international/images-show-vietnam-reclaiming-land-south-china-sea/


http://m.voanews.com/a/reu-images-vietnam-s-china-sea-reclamation-china-defends/2759800.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-building-islands-in-south-china-sea-2016-5

Who occupies what in the disputed region

Occupied by China (PRC)
Cuarteron Reef · Huayang Reef
Fiery Cross Reef · Yongshu Reef
Gaven Reefs · Nanxun Reef and Xinan Reef
Hughes Reef · Dongmen Reef
Johnson South Reef · Chigua Reef
Mischief Reef · Meiji Reef
Subi Reef · Zhubi Reef

Occupied by Malaysia
Ardasier Reef · Ubi Reef
Dallas Reef · Laya Reef
Erica Reef · Siput Reef
Investigator Shoal · Peninjau Shoal
Louisa Reef · Semarang Barat Kecil Reef
Mariveles Reef · Mantanani Reef
Swallow Reef · Layang-Layang Island

Occupied by the Philippines
Thitu Island · Pagasa Island
West York Island · Likas Island
Northeast Cay · Parola Island
Nanshan Island · Lawak Island
Loaita Island · Kota Island
Flat Island · Patag Island
Lankiam Cay · Panata Island
Irving Reef · Balagtas Reef
Second Thomas Shoal · Ayungin Shoal

Taiwan Occupied by Taiwan (ROC)
Itu Aba Island · Taiping Island
Zhongzhou Reef

Occupied by Vietnam
1. Alison Reef
2. Amboyan Reef
3. Barque Canada Reef
4. Central London Reef
5. Cornwallis South Reef
6. Da Gri-san
7. Da Hi Gen
8. East London Reef
9. Great Discovery Reef
10. Ladd Reef
11. Landsdowne Reef
12. Namyit Island
13. Pearson Reef
14. Petley Reef
15. Sand Cay
16. Sin Cowe Island
17. South Reef
18. South West Cay
19. Spratly Island
20. Tennent Reef
21. West London Reef

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:01 utc | 64

reply to 46, 48

China's claim lines in the South China sea look just silly. The border with India seems to have disputes that look extreme on both sides. OTOH, millions of Chinese tourists who vacation and return are a powerful argument against them being oppressed. Tibet was a miserable feudal state that was nothing to brag about relative to the Dalai Lama. The situation with Uyghurs should be compared to other Muslim nations as to freedom and prosperity.

I do think the one horror about China ( that might not affect foreign relations) involves their social mores but the CCP is going to have to figure that one out. They wrecked a lot of good culture under Mao and tacking on rapacious capitalism didn't help. The Good Samaritan idea is needed.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65

However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61

What do you think the CPC is?
Have you been to China and see China today with your own eyes? If Communism didn't work out why is US so afraid of China? Second largest economy in the world and actually much richer than US.

Chinese people shop, eat, party, travel all over the world. Pretty much like ordinary "superior white Homo sapiens".

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:08 utc | 66

China is already acting aggressive in the south china sea, pushing around the Philippines …

Posted by: pete | Sep 28 2023 13:06 utc | 51

Oh, really, do they?

Staged performance by the Philippines, US, Western media a total flop

Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 14:13 utc | 67


"rapacious Capitalism"
Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65

You think China is like the west where Capitalism owns the govts?

Go read up Wanda, Didi, Alibaba, Evergrande. Their balls got cut off by the CPC for being greedy.
Jack Ma has no controlling share of Alibaba anymore so now he fiddles around with Useless projects.

It was not Deng who used capitalists to prosper China. The original idea came from Mao who wrote this back in 1949.

Mao:

"The present-day capitalist economy in China is a capitalist economy which for the most part is under the control of the People's Government and which is linked with the state-owned socialist economy in various forms and supervised by the workers. It is not an ordinary but a particular kind of capitalist economy, namely, a state-capitalist economy of a new type. It exists not chiefly to make profits for the capitalists but to meet the needs of the people and the state. True, a share of the profits produced by the workers goes to the capitalists, but that is only a small part, about one quarter, of the total. The remaining three quarters are produced for the workers (in the form of the welfare fund), for the state (in the form of income tax) and for expanding productive capacity (a small part of which produces profits for the capitalists). Therefore, this state-capitalist economy of a new type takes on a socialist character to a very great extent and benefits the workers and the state."

"The national bourgeoisie at the present stage is of great importance. Imperialism, a most ferocious enemy, is still standing alongside us. China's modern industry still forms a very small proportion of the national economy. No reliable statistics are available, but it is estimated, on the basis of certain data, that before the War of Resistance Against Japan the value of output of modern industry constituted only about 10 per cent of the total value of output of the national economy. To counter imperialist oppression and to raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and the people's livelihood; and we must unite with the national bourgeoisie in common struggle. Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it. But the national bourgeoisie cannot be the leader of the revolution, nor should it have the chief role in state power. The reason it cannot be the leader of the revolution and should not have the chief role in state power is that the social and economic position of the national bourgeoisie determines its weakness; it lacks foresight and sufficient courage and many of its members are afraid of the masses."

(From a 1949 statement)

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:15 utc | 68

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65

Can you please look up 11 Dash Line? Who marked it and who backed it up.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:16 utc | 69

@ Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:52 utc | 34

"it was the Chinese people who backed the CPC, enabling them to beat the KMT"

Yes but the whole situation in China was severely manipulated by the angloamericans.
And Chiang Kai Shek didnt fully apreciate the doble-play.
He expected and probably correctly to have been battled by the western sponsors had he gotten along well with the communists.
In the end it was the americans - directed by the anglophile subset of the US - who left weapons intended for KMT to the maoists.
Just like many anglosaxons who still havent got it he couldnt believe that the US/UK were the real sponsors of communist revolutions.
I doubt that Chiang Kai Shek could have maneuvered to avoid what happened since the british masterminded such plans to prevent the rise of capitalist competition.
This would have motivated the US/UK agents to keep internal strife in China until the nationalist side was beaten.
He apparently committed acts of great brutality by flooding people.
That looks indefensible to me but I assume he believed that still worse things were awaiting China that he hoped to avoid.

If he had discerned the actual mindset within the US/UK elites he would probably have done more to continue collaborating with Maos side which did take place in one phase.

Earlier Maos side wanted to put the priority on fighting Japan. But the christian Chiang who had been trained in Japan probably expected to achieve a better outcome with some degree of collaboration.
He knew that Japan had been supported by Britain for a long time and that this had enabled Japan to beat Russia at Tsushima.
For Chiang, Russia at the time was the threatening bolshevik enemy.

I am just trying to understand what most likely influenced his thinking.
And I am certain that given the opportunity to lead China under peace, he would have attempted to see China developing successfully into an independent and prosperous nation.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 28 2023 14:16 utc | 70

China is a superpower and the USA hates superpowers. Also China has risen to become the most diplomatic partner without lifting a finger but just actioning what they promised to do. The USA instead use force, coercion and bulling tactics. There is no diplomacy in the USA just tyranny, corruption and blackmail.

Posted by: AI | Sep 28 2023 14:20 utc | 71

The border with India seems to have disputes that look extreme on both sides.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:03 utc | 65

It does Looks like many don't have access to Internet Or else don't know how to search.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4407848
Is this China's fault?


Abstract
The Nehru government sought to decide for itself where India's borders with China should lie and then impose the alignments it had chosen on Beijing, refusing to negotiate them. That meant that unless Beijing surrendered to India's territorial claims to Aksai Chin and areas north of the McMahon Line conflict was inevitable. China's military action in 1962 was reactive and pre-emptive, and that India suffered 'unprovoked aggression' is a self-serving myth. That there has been no settlement of the Sino-Indian borders is the consequence of Nehru's policies, to which successor governments, except Narasimha Rao's, have strictly adhered.

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:21 utc | 72

Latest export from China....
From Twitter Post....
Many inquiries have been made after a video was released showing how "straw checkerboard sand barriers" are planted in China's desert to combat desertification.

For starters, the straw checkerboard sand barriers can only halt the progression of the desert. Grass and vegetation are planted inside the straw squares to prevent desertification indefinitely. The seed inside the straw square will be dragged up by the wind and spread to the inner borders of the straw barriers. The grass will flourish with sufficient moisture, and the decomposing straw will act as a natural fertilizer.

The straw barriers will decompose for three years, and live "grass checkerboard sand barriers" will replace them, turning the dunes back to green.

The approach was developed over 60 years ago. While many new technologies and machinery are being developed to help with anti-desertification in China, it remains one of the most effective and low-cost ways to combat desertification.

Most "straw checkerboard sand barriers" are now planted by machines, although human labour is still required on particularly steep slopes or shifting sand dunes. Young people today lack interest in such work; thus, the elderly and housewives are the ones who are currently plating the straw squares in the desert.

Tang Xining, a 57-year-old scientist fighting desertification in Ningxia for over 33 years, has designed some simple equipment to assist them in planting the straw sand barriers. Below is a video introducing his creations.

Many developing nations can use these cheap and effective methods to combat desertification.

Villagers use Tang Ximing's method to control the expansion of the Tengger Desert with grass grids in the Ningxia Hui autonomous region. CHINA DAILY

According to Tang Ximing, deputy head of the Zhongwei Sand Control Forestry Center, Zhongwei city in the Ningxia Hui autonomous region has made great progress in its battle against desertification, with the total sand-controlled area reaching 100,000 hectares this year.

"Now, sand-fixing tree species like wormwood are growing in straw checkerboards in the southeastern Tengger Desert," Tang said.

The 55-year-old man has devoted 30 years to fighting desertification in Zhongwei and has helped develop an efficient method for fixing sand in place, which has increased tree survival rates by 25 percent.

The Baotou-Lanzhou Railway, China's first desert railway and which crosses the Tengger, opened in 1958. Trains were often forced to stop due to frequent sandstorms. To ensure normal operations and protect people living near the desert, several generations began to explore methods of sand control.

Born in Zhongwei city, Tang suffered from sandstorms so strong, they "sometimes blew people into the canal" and covered rice bowls in a dusting of sand.

He studied forestry at college and returned to his hometown after graduation in 1991, taking up a career in sand-control at a local forest farm.

The old way of using grass to fix the sand in place didn't work, as the grass was blown away by the wind. By accident, Tang and his colleagues discovered that wheat straw was able to stabilize the sand for several days.

"Scientists tested out straw squares of various shapes and sizes. After years of experiments, they found that straw checkerboards of about 1 meter by 1 meter were most effective, and cheapest," Tang said.

In 2015, he tried sowing grass seeds around the checkerboards to build up a grass grid. The roots of xerophytes plants that are naturally adapted to harsh conditions, are able to tap into deep underground water sources and, in this way, play a permanent role in fixing sand, he said.

However, the use of traditional spades for planting trees resulted in water loss and a low survival rate. "Because spade-dug pits tend to be shallow, when the tree is planted, its roots aren't able to absorb water in the dry, sand layer," Tang said.

After three years of research, Tang and his colleagues developed a new tool, which increases survival rates by 25 percent. Saplings are planted in a matter of seconds by forking their roots through one end of the 1-meter-long iron tool, and plunging it straight into the sand with one foot on the crossbar.

"This halves labor costs," Tang said. It took two years to turn the desert into an oasis, and it will become a forest in five years, he added.

The sand-control area in Zhongwei now covers 100,000 hectares and should keep increasing by 5,300 hectares every year.

I have seen many videos which show expansion of this technique most recently to Niger....

Niger????

Are the Chinese bringing de-desertification techniques to the Sahel????

Those pesky Chinese...!!

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 14:23 utc | 73

Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?
History and current events confirms it.

Should we therefore trust its claims that it rejects hegemony, not only of others but also for itself?
China is the worlds oldest culture in the current iteration of civilization. I don't think we have any indication from history that the chinese culture seeks world hegemony. So we should trust it, as the alternative is to open up for others to seek hegemony.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 74

Anyone who is honest in wanting to know why the Sino-Indian border war broke out in 1962 should read this.
The report was commissioner by the Indian govt But because of the Inconvenient Truth it has been classified Secret since then. Of course the world knows, if they are interested.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/the-henderson-brooks-report/289845

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 75

@peter mcloughlin | Sep 28 2023 9:51 utc | 6

US global hegemony is under threat
The world is threatened by US attempts to establish global hegemony. Preventing it is not a threat.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:29 utc | 76

#20 lol
Thanks for that, clearly an american that has never been out of the country except for Mexican resorts. Americans love to spout of government BS thinking they are really smart. Both parties do this the Dems being the worst right at the moment. I always wondered how Nazi germany came about with a small handful of people helping people escape now I know I think we can see where the west is heading

Posted by: Susan | Sep 28 2023 14:29 utc | 77

The big problem with the imperialists is that they cannot think that other people can think differently from them.

A trait of character too often seen also with commentators. Especially those who show no patience over the Russian strategy with the SMO.

Never awake a sleeping dog, it could bark and bite.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:32 utc | 78

Regarding those who want to ask Uyghurs:

- fly there for yourself and ask them
- alternatively start here and follow the hundreds of sources:

https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

Posted by: Zet | Sep 28 2023 12:34 utc | 45

China is a very old civilization . Uyghers are Mongols. The Han Chinese remember when the Mongols took over their country entering into the Yuan dynasty.

Uyghers are mostly Muslim and the CIA/MI6 have been attempting to ferment ISIS terrorism in Western China.

So when I hear about 're-education camps" it only China trying to re program the brainwashed.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 28 2023 14:33 utc | 79

reply to 69

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-13748349

China is trying to hug Phillipines and Malaysia coastlines. It looks ridiculous to much of the world, regardless of what ROC claims.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 28 2023 14:34 utc | 80

China settled all border disputes with Russia. India absolutely refused to negotiate, insisting on taking Tibet, Arunachal, parts of Sichuan.
Who is being unreasonable?
You do know where Sichuan is right?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 12:49 utc | 48

..................

Was this mainly about water rights? I believe China, by annexing Tibet, now controls all the major headwaters upon which India depends, but have never looked into it in detail.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 28 2023 14:34 utc | 81

@ Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 28 2023 12:24 utc | 42

Well duh, yeah, the US claimed plenty of territory too, doesn't mean they ever had any right to it.

You still didn't address the crux of the claim, which is, what right does China have over those waters, when they are clearly nowhere near China, and right in front of Vietnam, Malaysia and Philippines for example.

This MoA article was framed with an open question, to which i added mine with a very specific and relevant example. China deserves many praises, as i said so myself, but simping for China is different. As far as criticisms go, i find their whole 9 Dash line to be absolute bs, and for all of their talk of not wanting to be hegemonic, then that is the first place they could put their money where their mouth is to prove how their actions match the rhetoric.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Sep 28 2023 14:35 utc | 82

China is the worlds oldest culture in the current iteration of civilization. I don't think we have any indication from history that the chinese culture seeks world hegemony. So we should trust it, as the alternative is to open up for others to seek hegemony.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:26 utc | 74

When the Chinese went to Africa, they were doing commerce, not colonisation, nor slave trade, nor massacres or looting. All typical western behaviours and crimes.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:36 utc | 83

From Twitter post.....

What countries signed treaties with Hitler, and when:

1933 - Uk, France, Italy - Four powers pact
1934 - Poland - Pisudski Pact
1935 - UK - Anglo - German Naval Agreement
1936 - Japan - Anti-Comintern Pact
1938, Sept - UK - German-British non-aggression Pact
1938, Dec - France - German-French non-aggression pact
1939, Mar - Romania - German-Romanian Economical treaty
1939, Mar - Lithuania - non-aggression pact
1939, May - Italy - Pact of Steel
1939, May - Denmark - non-aggression pact
1939, Jun - Estonia - non-aggression pact
1939, Jul - Latvia - non-aggression pact
1939, Aug - USSR - non-aggression pact (Molotov-Ribbentrop)

But they only teach you about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact...

AND...

This does not include the Austrian Anshluss, Carve up of Czechoslovakia -- SudetenLand cession, Polish annexation...

And others...

In hindsight it's apparent the NAZIS were clearing the decks for war...

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 28 2023 14:41 utc | 84

@Patience | Sep 28 2023 14:36 utc | 82

Agreed.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 28 2023 14:41 utc | 85

Pretty words, to be sure, but alas that is all they may be. Human nature is to always want more. It’s partly a survival thing, hardwired in our DNA, partly societal constructs, but the desire to gain more food, more territory, more money has been shown over and over again for millennia. Somehow I doubt the CCP has devised something to supplant human nature.

Remember these fine words “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"? Noble beyond measure, crystallization of what the human spirit should be. However, communism did not quite work out so well, did it?
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 28 2023 13:53 utc | 61

No, it's not.

If you look at families, as the smaller nucleus of society, generally they tend to be collaborative, same goes with small villages or communities, this can be seen in Italy expecially rural areas, but I suppose in US and other countries too.

Occasionally, in a family, some individuals cane became greedy or jealous but the rest of the family can and will shut them off for the wellbeing of the whole family, same goes for communities.

On occasion there will be major clash between community, but driven from necessity instead of greed.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 28 2023 14:52 utc | 86

For those China Haters screaming away about evil aggressive CPC here's a map from Republic of China. Compare it with today's PRC map and see the huge territory China has given away to settle territorial disputes. That includes 2 million sq.km given to Russia.
Mongolia was allowed independence because Stalin asked. China retained Inner Mongolia.

https://i.imgur.com/IM1PtAh.jpg

Btw If you don't know the difference between Republic of China and People's Republic of China then you shouldn't even be commenting on China at all.
Which other countries willingly gave away their land for peace?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:53 utc | 87

How many of you actually bothered to find out about the 11 Dash Line, who did it, and who gave them the ships to do it?

Is there an honest person left?

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 14:55 utc | 88

Self-righteous hypocrisy is the other side of the coin of morality.
It's hard work obeying rules especially rules around our desires, wealth, sex, power. Self- righteous hypocrisy is a human frailty by which we project onto others the things we don't like ourselves.

Even educated fleas - do it. Fall in love. I don't know which is the worser : USUKIS brazenly trying to conquer Russia , South Americs and the Middle East while projecting its violence onto China about Taiwan, or, China pretending that its interest in Africs is avuncular respect, while in China itself religion is ridiculed.

China is not at all Multipolar in respect to religion, and USUKIS's love of radical Islam has been proved to be entirely related to violence , from Yugoslavia to Syria.

So my answer to our respected host's interesting question is that don't accept the premise of the question which is that we should make judgements about others.

First, we have to confront all of our Western assumptions about our political aggression and our use of religion.
Then we might have something useful to offer to China. The housing of 3 million hostile Muslims in Britain is not a virtue, but more of thecsame old Divide and Rule of the last 2000 years.

What needs to go, on all sides (Trump's favourite phrase ) , is this bonkers obsession with controlling others.
Surely the elites who see 24/7 spying as a tool of oppressing others ,need to examine their own excesses. Their own weaknesses.

The brothers who separate their women from contact with me, but chat up my wife sitting with their wife in their back sitting rooms, need to reflect on the power structures they are trying to build around themselves, that they alone are innocent, because they have projected all their sexual desires onto others.

The West should respect peaceful Islam, before asking China to respect peaceful Islam, and the West should totally disconnect from its colonial domination of Africa etc. Otherwise this whole discussion is pure hypocrisy and summer snowballs.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 28 2023 14:58 utc | 89

49# 59#
Why not give them houses? Maybe you need to go and see these minority regions for yourself. Shockingly the Chinese haves given them more then houses, they have moved companies into these regions, they have made sure the farmers have modern tools to farm with, health care and schools with their language and Chinese.
Now how about a trip to the Navajo nation where 99percent of the people live below the poverty line health care in terrible, education is terrible. This hold true on most tribal land. Let’s talk about Black communities in America. Where housing is unaffordable healthcare non existent and cops shoot to kill at the drop of a hat. Then let’s look at the rest of America. For shit public ed, healthcare system failing, cost of living outrageous for what you get. China has blown away the world by ending poverty. It is clean, no homeless on the streets.Massive high speed rail every where that is affordable. Now has the best universities in the world along with Russia. Solid healthcare.
So when you know something about China come back so far you just make ignorant Biden BS!

Posted by: Susan | Sep 28 2023 15:04 utc | 90

I'm sure that lots in the USA are crapping at the idea that they will not be bossing the rest of humanity around, and worse, they might have to take instructions from a Yellow person. But US hegemony has killed 10s of millions. It's always excused by nice sounding rhetoric about "freedom" and "democracy", but a hell of a lot have "freed" of their lives, limbs, self-respect, property. It's time for the USA to just leave everyone else alone.

Look at Chinese history over the centuries and millenia. China's been the leading country several times. The sky has not fallen yet! Usually, Chinese people wait for foreigners to come and buy their manuctures: silk, tea, porcelain, computer chips, whatever.

Don't be afraid of no US hegemony!

Posted by: lester | Sep 28 2023 15:06 utc | 91

Hegemony done well produces more hegemony fo rmany centuries to come.

Ask the Romans.

In general, it seems there's a lot of propaganda in the document. The Chinese government pressurises Western Companies and organisations into not criticising them (eg the Basketball players can't speak about China, therefore they go the easy way with BLM. Even Elon shuts up about China, and he shuts up about very little on this planet...).

They will apply pressure all right, just as the Americans do now, if probably more intelligently.

It's in the nature of power.

Posted by: Alexander P | Sep 28 2023 15:14 utc | 92

There is no iron law that dictates that a rising power will inevitably seek hegemony. This assumption represents typical hegemonic thinking and is grounded in memories of catastrophic wars between hegemonic powers in the past. China has never accepted that once a country becomes strong enough, it will invariably seek hegemony. China understands the lesson of history – that hegemony preludes decline. We pursue development and revitalization through our own efforts, rather than invasion or expansion. And everything we do is for the purpose of providing a better life for our people, all the while creating more development opportunities for the entire world, not in order to supersede or subjugate others.

SMH that b thinks this is some kind of refutation of the idea that the CCP ("communist" in name only, it should be remembered) will not at some stage seek hegemony.

Empire-building may indeed lead to the ruling country's ultimate collapse, but during the expansion phase - which can last centuries - it bring its elites great riches, influence and power.

Unless you think the Chinese are somehow genetically immune to the siren calls of power, I see no way of being at all confident that China won't follow in the footsteps of every other rising power, unless checked by outside powers.

I mean, you can see this with their internal politics - Mao and Xi, for instance, and the CCP itself exercise hegemonic power over the Chinese citizenry.

And no, I'm not claiming the US/Anglo empire is any better... just that the sorts of people who "rise" to the top in any large country are people who care most about power and are willing to do the most to acquire it. And these are not people who put "the people" first - they put themselves first.

Posted by: Observer | Sep 28 2023 15:14 utc | 93

Other strategic statements by China, like the one issued in 2013 that laid the ground for its Belt and Road program, had been dismissed when they were issued. But the record shows that China acts on such programs exactly as its papers promise to do. It profits from doing so.

Is its thesis in this new paper, that hegemony preludes decline, valid?

Great article, good discussion.

I think it fair to say that China walks its talk – also true for the BRI-BRICS+ initiative. In marked contrast to the Decadent West which only spews Lies.

China as a regional Big Dog is not averse to pushing its weight around, but that's not the same as hegemony. The multipolar vision assumes vast networks of global commerce yoked together by mutual benefit. Sounds excellent, truly.

My problem is with opacity. With China, for example, there is either distorted Western coverage (which I rarely if ever read) or self-promoting Global Times and/or CPC official papers. Nowhere have found insightful, well-informed criticism. Quite possibly it exists inside China and am unaware, but the impression I get is that this is not encouraged. Disagreements clearly exist - as manifested by regular defenestrations of various Ministers or movements - but such dirty laundry is not aired in public. So perhaps there is a widespread 'don't rock the boat' mentality which seems to work well, but makes the whole thing overly opaque. It’s either China Bad or China Good and nothing in between. That makes me unable to trust.

Also, if the multipolarity movement ends up aligned with the Great Reset & Agenda 2030, along with benevolent multipolarity we will have a digitized One World Order which will almost certainly run by totalitarian Bad Actors, probably from the get-go. Making multipolarity a sales pitch for a new form of Unipolarity.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 28 2023 15:16 utc | 94

The Chinese position is, very simply, the only alternative that we have to disaster and galloping extinction.

If the re-iterated conventionalities of the "human nature means that we must always murder one another..." type, are true then the entire human race and numerous other species are doomed within a few decades.

But there is nothing ievitable about this, we simply have to do what the Chinese, who are saying what all sensible people of all races know, suggest. Which is to disempower the maniacs who keep starting wars- and we know who they are and where they live-and start acting in the clearly discernible, public interest.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 28 2023 15:17 utc | 95

Posted by: TG | Sep 28 2023 11:28 utc | 30

However: after Mao's disastrous "strength through numbers" pro-natalist population explosion nearly tore the country apart, the Chinese government has lifted over a billion people out of poverty. Unlike the United States, which has opened the borders to unlimited third-world invasion specifically to drive wages down and rents and profits up, China has not declared war on its working class.

Sigh. The Chinese government's policies led to tens of millions of Chinese dying of starvation and leading lives of abject poverty. It was only once they dropped socialism and allowed the private ownership of the means of production and distribution that the citizenry began their climb out of poverty.

China's capitalists (with the help of a lot of FDI and expertise) are what "lifted over a billion people out of poverty". The most you can say about the CCP is that they stepped aside enough to enable the capitalists to do their job - making the rest of us rich enough to forget how we got where we are in the first place.

Posted by: Observer | Sep 28 2023 15:21 utc | 96

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 28 2023 11:31 utc | 31

From one ethnic Chinese to another - chill. I get that it is easy to be irritated by how China is portrayed. Here though, I encourage you to look more candidly at those who express legitimate, informed concerns. If anything, we need their voices so that those in the Chinese government know what to measure and can point to it. Data is important. I don't want to see a repeat of those days in which Chinese were bigoted and arrogant towards the rest of the world, that led to the disaster of our collective modern history.

Posted by: tesla | Sep 28 2023 12:52 utc | 49

I would not consider this to be informed though. Investments into UHVDC, saline-alkaline aquaculture, and HSR speak otherwise. China just doesn't buy the whole aid tagline motivated by Anglo-Christian "charity," and instead is more interested in teaching Uighurs how to fish (literally and figuratively).

Keep in mind it is a mistake to also think of the region of solely consisting of Uighurs. That is something the WUC has been trying to push as a natural phenomenon, when it is really a consequence of the typical "conquer and purge" cycles that Qing China and Yaqub Beg also carried out. Rather, we should welcome the current norm, which is largely informed by Zuo Zongtang's policies and whatever the Chinese government continues to espouse in terms of "harmony of the nations/races." Western press tried to make a molehill out of Chen Quanguo's hardline policies, pretending that he was representative of the entire government. Accusations in the 90s over Uighur slave labor and in 2008 surrounding the then-fury over Tibet from the WUC were all red herrings, and the latest salvo is no different aside from the increased funding in creating the megaphones known as Adrian Zenz and ASPI. The US didn't care about the World Bank's findings in the 90s disproving their claims. Why would they care about the truth today?

Posted by: Run | Sep 28 2023 15:23 utc | 97

China's "shared future" where they run the world. I can't see what could go wrong. They are huge on personal freedom and rights.

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 28 2023 15:32 utc | 98

What the representatives of the USA really mean: they fear that they can no longer impose their will on other peoples.
From their point of view, of course, this also goes hand in hand with the idea that the goals of the USA are also the goals of other peoples.
The law of the strongest is lived out behind a facade of words such as democracy and so on.
Coexistence is seen as the product of weakness, because a winner takes "all"!

For states like Germany, the current development offers a ray of hope (hopefully it won't be too bright). Those who suffer under US hegemony do not fear China's growing influence.
Currently, wars are financed, organised and waged from German soil. The states concerned could rightly attack Germany, as it serves as a base for US forces.
This could also be done in a terrorist manner. Afghans, Syrians, many African countries etc. could come up with the idea of punishing the perpetrators.
In return, our energy security will be attacked and then our economy targeted.
As long as there is even one homeless person in Germany, every cent spent on the US military is a slap in the face to the German taxpayer.
And even after homelessness has been overcome, there would be better uses for our tax money.

The US does not need to wage wars, it does not need hegemony.
Apparently, however, the productivity of the US population is not sufficient to enable the children of a billionaire to live a billionaire existence in the long run. When wealth (and thus power) is concentrated among individuals in a system, there is a lack of it in the system itself.
The masses are then kept in suspense with illusions.
In such a system, the insight of Volker Pispers applies:
"Everyone can become rich, but not everyone!

Posted by: 600w | Sep 28 2023 15:33 utc | 99

The only problem here is how china will react when america starts attacking its projects in other countries, if it is not already doing so now.

Posted by: Tomp | Sep 28 2023 15:36 utc | 100

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