Ukraine SitRep: The End Of The Counteroffensive
Western media have finally change course. They are now admitting that the much promoted Ukrainian counter-offensive has failed. In fact, the acknowledge that it never had a chance to win in the first place.
The Hill, the Washington Post and CNN now agree that the Ukrainian army will never achieve its aims.
That makes it difficult for the Biden administration to get Congress approval for $24 billion in additional 'aid' to Ukraine. It does not make sense to pay for a cause that is evidently lost.
The Polish President Duda has also acknowledged that the counter-offensive has failed. Relations between Warsaw and Kiev have gotten worse and Polish interests will not allow for more support or active intervention.
Nothing has come from the 'peace conference' which Saudi Arabia arranged on Ukraine's behalf.
Despite the onslaught of bad news the Ukrainian army is still trying to take Russian positions in the south and east of Ukraine. But it simply does not have enough in men and material to break through the lines.
Even if they would manage to get a local breakthrough there are not enough reserves to push for the necessary follow up. Just one of the NATO trained brigades has still been held back. All others have been mauled in their various deployment zones.
In the northeast around Kupyansk the Russians have started their own offensive which has the Ukrainians on the run. Ukraine has ordered the evacuation of the area:
A mandatory evacuation has been ordered for the Ukrainian city of Kupyansk and its surrounding areas, as Russia intensified shelling of Ukraine’s northeastern Kharkiv region and claimed to have captured Ukrainian positions near the city on Thursday.
But Kupyansk is a Russian city and people refuse to leave.
The Russian campaign is slowly speeding up. As the Ukrainian Strana.news reports (machine translation):
Also in Ukraine, it is recorded that from Kupyansk to Bakhmut, Russia has increased the number of attacks."Over the past month, the total number of attacks in the Kupyansk, Limansky and Bakhmut directions has grown significantly. In July, during the week there were 6-6.5 thousand attacks, during the last week-9 thousand attacks, " - said the representative of the National Guard Ruslan Muzychuk.
According to him, the Russian Federation does not experience "shell hunger".
Aviation is also actively used, and over the past few weeks, more than 50 air attacks have been taking place every day, and sometimes more than 80.
That is bad news for the Ukrainian side which lacks the reserves to counter the Russian onslaught. There are also less weapons coming in from the West. F-16 fighter jets will be delayed for another nine months due to training issues. Tanks and other material are in short supply.
Strana also report of an interview with a knowledgeable Ukrainian soldier (machine translation):
Continuing the topic of the situation at the front, an interesting interview was given by a Ukrainian sniper fighting near Bakhmut with the call sign "Grandfather". On the air of political scientist Yuri Romanenko, he was introduced as Konstantin Proshinsky (this is a pseudonym).The fighter spoke in detail about his vision of the situation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Russian army.
1. Mobilization. In his opinion, it is conducted incorrectly. Recruits are sent to the front who have never been trained, and they are often over 50 years old and with a whole bunch of diseases.
...
2. No rotation. The soldier says that "the same brigades" are fighting at the front, and people are not taken out of the front line for six months or more. Whereas by Western standards, they can be kept in a war zone for no more than three months.
...
3. Behavior of mid-and high-level commanders. According to Proshinsky, many of them are trying to arrange a "mini-Stalingrad" on the positions, forcing them to go into frontal assaults on well-fortified Russian positions.
...
4. The Russian Army began to fight better.
...
5. Proshinsky believes that Russia has not yet used much of what it has against Ukraine.
The soldier thinks that the Russians will not move from their positions and that a stalemate peace like in Korea would be the end result.
I believe that to be wrong. Russia's aim is to liberate at least the four regions that it has claimed for itself. For political reasons it can not stop before that is done.
Should the Ukraine continue to fight after that, Russia is likely to set new aims and take more land.
Posted by b on August 11, 2023 at 13:06 UTC | Permalink
next page »I started a site on Substack to publish books on ancient Asian history and a theory of the rise and fall of ethnicity from a Russian point of view. Every work is my original translation from the Russian language, and from Russian authors, and I have never found any of them elsewhere in English. By learning of long and expanding strings of "events", we do become knowledgeable. But knowledge is not necessarily understanding. That's why it seems like overload.
What is lacking is a theory to tie it all together. Things happen in the world because some people DO something. They not only have a desire to see things differently, but they have the energy and courage to attempt it. In this theory it is called their passion, and it is the theory of passionarity, by the Russian L.N. Gumilev. There are shorter monographs and longer books already uploaded.
https://library4conciliation.substack.com/p/index-page-for-short-asian-histories
My thesis is that "The Process for Peace and conciliation is UNDERSTANDING,"
understanding better who your supposed enemy is, and what their perceived needs are, and other ideas that may be “different” about them,
That's why I investigated books written from their prospective. These are not current events, so you can't say that it is cold (or hot) war propaganda. I think the site is quite well organized to make everything easy to find.
.
It now appears that sleepy joe is going to have to defend himself at an impeachment trial. Should that come to pass, the “diversion” in Ukraine no longer is necessary. Enter Blackrock. Pentagon will whine but there will be plenty of other places for pentagon officials to keep the cash flowing. IMHO.
Posted by: Ljag | Aug 11 2023 13:23 utc | 3
Russia will slow-roll this, drawing as many hardcore Ukrainian ethnosupremacists into the meat grinder as possible... because the Kremlin definitely does not want to be occupying territory that contains thousands of hostiles trained by Western special forces in guerilla tactics. It needs to kill or disable those people before the front lines move to incorporate them into Russia.
Also, having the front so close to its Western border means the Russians have far shorter supply lines, while the Ukrainians have to ship their materiel from where it is delivered in the West, all the way across the country East. The longer their supply lines, the easier it is for Russia to reconnoiter their logistics... and destroy them with standoff weapons.
This seems perfectly obvious to me; I don't understand why Paul Craig Roberts can't get his head round it.
Posted by: Observer | Aug 11 2023 13:26 utc | 4
The Jeddah conference was envisioned by Sullivan and Blinken to lead to the Korea scenario, humiliation of Russia and a way for US not having to admit defeat. It was the exit that was supposed to guarantee Biden, Pentagon etc. don’t have to deal with Ukraine late next year.
But seems they are replacing Ukraine with the situ in Sahel, to divert attention and fighting bushmen is what the US army knows better, anyway.
Zaporozhye will end up in RU control which will be the final episode of AFU counter-offensive, and Odessa will be eventually abandoned once RU makes a solid or sustainable crossing across the Dnepr.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 11 2023 13:41 utc | 5
A child being spanked for misbehavior does not get to choose when the spanking ends.
A thug getting beaten in a fight he started does not get to choose when the fight ends.
Ukrainian Nazis do not get to choose when the SMO ends.
The delusion in these fools is hardcore. Do they really think the Russians will call off the SMO if the Ukraine calls for a "Time out!" or something? Complete unconditional surrender is the Ukraine's only option.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2023 13:44 utc | 6
Posted by: Ljag | Aug 11 2023 13:23 utc | 3
Looks like the DOJ need to arraign Trump again! Or maybe twice, once to distract from the Ukrainian debacle, once for the impending impeachment.
Posted by: Milites | Aug 11 2023 13:51 utc | 7
Still too early too tell what's going to happen, but some comments:
1. My country - the United States - is being invaded by the third world, and my government is not only not stopping this, it is actively promoting it. My interest in Russia/Ukraine is, while nonzero, is less. Keep your priorities.
2. Here is one serious issue that Putin has - he cannot trust any cease-fire. As with the Minsk agreements, the Ukrainians will just rebuild, acquire more western supplies, and attack again when they feel like it. Or perhaps, they will keep sending drone attacks on Moscow and Russian commercial shipping etc. and hope that Russia attacks and Ukraine can play defense again. Russia can't really retaliate by striking Ukraine because the western elites that control Ukraine don't give a damn about the place. Putin may have no option than total control of Ukraine - but that's easier said than done. And then Putin would inherit all that massive debt the west has dumped on Ukraine, and will have to govern the Russian-hating parts of Ukraine. Perhaps a Vichy-Ukraine?
3. If (a big IF) Ukraine really does collapse, that will make it painfully clear to everyone how utterly dishonest the Western press and establishment are. But will it matter? Perhaps western institutions are too far gone/too corrupted for truth to ever matter, even in the face of utter dishonesty revealed. We will see.
Posted by: TG | Aug 11 2023 13:56 utc | 8
Posted by: Observer | Aug 11 2023 13:26 utc | 4
This seems perfectly obvious to me; I don't understand why Paul Craig Roberts can't get his head round it.
PCR wants that Russia provokes changes in the USA by going strong against USA's Ukraine project. He wraps up this desire in a cover of avoiding nuclear war but in fact what he wants is that the USA is saved from its on-going deterioration. Problem is the Russians are more interested in other things and they seem to be of the idea that the USA's slide into decline is the USA's own problem.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 11 2023 14:06 utc | 9
Posted by: TG | Aug 11 2023 13:56 utc | 8
#####
1. You're not being invaded. It's like Skynet in the Terminator movies. The American government has turned on its creators and is replacing the people. You're being retired for being too knowledgeable and respectful of the founding mythologies of America. It's not an invasion, it's a mass retirement.
2. Putin will take the better parts (Odessa) and leave the rest for someone else to figure out. There is no way that Putin will inherit Western debt to settle this scenario, not unless somehow Russia is completely losing and desperate to end the conflict.
3. No one in the West cares that the government, media, and institutions lie. They have been lying non-stop for some time, and with the advent of the internet millions of people inside America and many multiples more outside the USA know. And nothing changes. It's like any sensible person knew these cheap masks would do nothing positive, and yet nearly everyone wore them on command like whipped dogs.
We're a very sheepish species. The idea that individually we're all very courageous is a Hollywood delusion.
That's another reason why there is a war on religion and traditional values. When God is your highest power and Heaven your preferred destination, the dictates, and threats of the pedos in government seem a lot less threatening.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 14:09 utc | 10
Thanks -B-
It’s hard to “end” something that never started. It’s a nice play on the PR, but there was never a counter offensive, just a botched attack attempt.
The idea is to keep the war going and hope the destabilization spreads across EU. High fuel prices, grain shortages, food shortages, inflation, civil unrest, expenditure on weapons… all make for wonderful IMF loans across EU to implement reforms, austerity & promote the 4th turning and the Great Reset.
It’s another destabilization campaign for Big Business, Banks in the heart of EU, no different than the Niger campaign is now on the continent of Africa, to bring the whole continent into destabilization (absolutely US has the President currently captive) or Iraq & Syria to destabilize the Middle East.
Regardless of PR garbage to assuage the US citizens that a “peace” is coming. They’ll be no peace as war is the best tool for destabilizing & subjugating nations, and they’ll continue until all of EU is begging for IMF loans & willingly implement austerity & reforms.
Every utterance from Zelensky et el is “more war”… and yes, they’ll be supplied and funded indefinitely. More shortages, higher prices, mass layoffs, closures of businesses… for that, they need “more war”…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 11 2023 14:24 utc | 11
Complete unconditional surrender is the Ukraine's only option.Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2023 13:44 utc | 6
Yes. And then what?
Lavrov and Putin reiterated several times that there currently (and for the foreseeable future) there is absolutely no-one to talk to in the collective and extended west. All western promises, treaties and guarantees towards Russia have proven themselves as sham, scam and outright breaches by the west.
While Ukraine becomes cold product as we speak, Poland and the Baltic chihuahuas are being positioned.
Ukrainian Nazis do not get to choose when the SMO ends.
Considering the above, allow me to correct: Washington, Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland and their transatlantic puppets don't get to choose when the SMO ends.
Posted by: Nervous German | Aug 11 2023 14:38 utc | 12
Russian Defense Minister: NATO assembled 360,000 troops in Eastern Europe. Poland is preparing to occupy Western Ukraine.Important: If NATO moves from a proxy war setting into a direct war with Russia it will be WW3 with all the devastating consequences.
https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1689756654865469440
Poland can move to western Ukraine, but RU will eventually attack them because Ukraine is not part of Nato. Regardless what sort of Anschluss deal Duda or Zelensky create or what they claim.
What is the trigger for this move? Plausible would be that, imminently before AFU collapse in Donbass, expect Polish occupation force in Lvov.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 11 2023 14:46 utc | 13
Here's my latest Ukraine Weekly Update which may be useful to those who do have the time or inclination to follow the conflict in depth. https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-918
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Aug 11 2023 14:50 utc | 14
@ Librarian 2
in case you haven´t already perhaps take a short look into Nicolai Petro´s book on Ukraine.
I am not sure of his initial historic idea that watching Greek theatre tragedy had a "sobering" effect on the ruling class in Ancient Greece but his later notion in the same book, that only understanding offers a way out would of course concure with your above thesis.
Posted by: AG | Aug 11 2023 14:55 utc | 15
The West's Ukraine fake war is no longer as simple as Russia vs the West. Has everyone forgotten that 'Acting' President Zelenski expressed a desire to transform Ukraine into a Second "Israel"?
"Israel" plays the tune to which the pseudo-Christian West dances. i.e. Israel-worship is what makes the West the West. The Labor half of Oz's Lib-Lab duopoly is about to formally recognise Palestine as a legitimate state with its Capital in East Jerusalem and the Oz Jewish Lobby is effing FURIOUS.
It's quite likely that when Oz recognises Palestine, other lapdog states will follow suit and join the other 130+ UN Members who already do so.
Until it's clear what "Israel's" plans for Ukraine are, predictions of how the Ukraine fake war will end will be premature and incomplete.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 11 2023 14:55 utc | 16
This seems perfectly obvious to me; I don't understand why Paul Craig Roberts can't get his head round it.Posted by: Observer | Aug 11 2023 13:26 utc | 4
Robert's is an American Patriot. He say's what he thinks will SAVE the American Empire and NOT what is BEST for Russia.
Posted by: Ron | Aug 11 2023 14:56 utc | 17
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 11 2023 14:24 utc | 11
I think you understand a good part of the political arrangements that fuel this and other wars. But it isn't the whole story. The "world" government that the current oligarchy runs (that is the Washington Empire) is failing and fragmenting as the oligarchs themselves are fragmenting. The interests of the various true political heavies are now getting more interesting. Just at the time the oligarchs had managed to solidify their common position vis a vis "the people" (who are now faced with either totalitarianism or neo-feudalism) they are arguing among themselves. The bureaucrats are running around the world each looking for allies for their various clients within the oligarchy and their own enrichment and are now working at cross-purposes and thus the current set-up and alliances will have to shift. The politically ambitious POSs who have taken over the Democratic Party in the US will be left holding an empty bag as the Finance Oligarchs will have to change tactics and begin to dilute or eliminate the power of the State through decentralization. In the USA this process has already started as the State institutions like the FBI, CDC, and even intel organizations lose their credibility.
For cultural reasons USA-ans still possess a spirit of enterprise and independence so we will be able to adjust to chaotic situations whereas Europe is in bigger trouble as they seem to be more respectful of authority (and are helpless in the face of the State since they are largely disarmed)--they will be the ones to suffer most as a result of this absurd and cynical WWE style "war" being fought for power in a very complex game involving everyone from organized crime to intel-organizations (who recognize no law and basically the same as organized crime) to Wall Street/City of London finance oligarchs and all the endless power-centers the MSM completely ignores as actors in this drama. Eventually some power-players will have a vision to reform the system and I think within a few years we will have a much better situation as Americans will be able to see that war is a scam.
Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Aug 11 2023 15:01 utc | 18
@ unimperator | Aug 11 2023 14:46 utc | 13
While I appreciate your logic, I tend to believe that no Polish and no NATO will ever openly enter Ukraine. Not because of invoking some articles or upping the ante there, but what I can imagine that and Poles, Germans and foreigner mercs are already present for a year there, equally slaughtered as Ukrainians. We can observe that everyone around Ukraine is trying to erase the bull's eye off itself, not repaint it. At least that is my impression. The West is basically training on how to put the tail between legs those days.
Posted by: whirlX | Aug 11 2023 15:01 utc | 19
Counteroffensive is not the only thing that is over. It is folding the tents time. Clear the props from the stage. Remove the backdrops and scenery. Behold the brick wall at back of theater. The Emperor has no clothes. A substantial part of the American population will insist for some time that the brick wall is a shining city on a hill and the Emperors garments are resplendent. Government by the outdoor insane will last far longer than would seem possible. The theater will close.
Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 11 2023 15:09 utc | 20
Re: Posted by: Ron | Aug 11 2023 14:56 utc | 17
“He say's what he thinks will SAVE the American Empire and NOT what is BEST for Russia.”
The 2 go hand in hand. As evidenced, can’t have one without the other, they’re both global powers. And the world no longer needs “Empires” and frankly never did.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 11 2023 15:13 utc | 21
People need to recall Russia's December 2021 security proposals when thinking about how this all might end. As with Germany in 1939, IMO Russia will want as much buffer space as possible meaning it will take as much of Ukraine as it can--and it can take most of it. And then there's the issue of revived Nazism within NATO/EU and the need to crush its ally Neoliberalism. The overall geopolitical contest has become far more complex than the SMO's announced goals.
For the sake of having a truckload of "delusion by example", "freedom is slavery" and "warmongers to the frontline", I'll post an edited machine translation from an op-ed as printed in today's RHEINPFALZ, a rather major regional daily in southwestern Germany, written by a journactivist named Tobias Heimbach.
Ukraine is fighting for peace
The war in Ukraine worries many. But the loudest group currently saying "peace" and calling for "negotiations" really means: Russia's ruler Vladimir Putin should get what he wants.
Looking at the destroyed cities in Ukraine, at the devastated lands and the fresh graves, it seems pretty clear what this country needs. Then one would like to shout: Stop shooting, now! Then peace must be the only thing. Right?
But the current debate rarely talks about peace. The Greens, who once saw themselves as pacifists, keep demanding new arms deliveries for Ukraine. And a Social Democratic chancellor, of all people, is pushing for an unprecedented rearmament of the Bundeswehr. Those who call for peace are actually always right. The only problem is that, like everything in life, peace comes at a price. And not every peace brings freedom. It can also mean oppression. This is what those who count themselves as part of the peace movement forget.
Today, this movement is made up of different groups. There are pacifists of conviction who desire peace purely - and rather naively. And then there are those who demand peace because they simply feel overwhelmed by the crises and catastrophes of the world. They want peace - and some want a lower gas price.
And then there is the loudest group at the moment. It says "peace," demands "negotiations" and actually means: Russia's ruler Vladimir Putin should get what he wants. Large parts of what today calls itself the "peace movement" is above all a bracket for anti-Americanism from East and West German traditions. That's why you meet representatives of the AfD next to esotericists and Sahra Wagenknecht at demonstrations.
This also explains why the peace movement is not very popular at the moment. In the Ukraine war, it is clear who is attacking and who is legitimately defending themselves. As understandable as the desire for peace may be, it always takes two to achieve it. And as long as one wants war rather than peace, the other must fight. This is how it is with Russia and Ukraine. It will defend itself until it is allowed to live peacefully again.
The peace movements of the past arose out of quite different contexts. That West Germans opposed rearmament in the 1950s was more than understandable a few years after the Second World War started by Germany. In the disarmament debates of the 1980s, the situation was not as clear-cut as it is today in the Ukraine war. To apply the debates of that time, with the slogans of that time, to today does not work.
Those who now warn that a military-industrial complex is emerging in Germany have not understood the situation. Germany is a deeply civilian country, not one that its neighbors tremble before. On the contrary. The allies are more afraid of a weak Germany that cannot stand by them against Russia.
And when Russia talks of peace these days, it sounds like what former President Dmitry Medvedev said Tuesday: "Russia will achieve peace on its own terms." To achieve it, Russia is abducting children, bombing blood transfusion centers and homes. Day after day.
And so it goes: if you want peace, arm yourself for war. That's why it's right to strengthen the Bundeswehr. Because an army is like a wedding dress. You don't need it often, but when the occasion arises, nothing else works. Meanwhile, the desire for peace has not disappeared. It is what Ukraine is fighting for.
.
What are these people smoking?
As b has only noted U.S. media in today's post, the German MSM are far from understanding what their radical anti-Russian "news" imply; they still can't seem to cope having bet on the wrong horse—again.
Posted by: Nervous German | Aug 11 2023 15:17 utc | 23
As always, great in depth analysis of b. The Ukronazi regime begins to collapse at the front lines. As for the comments, some very good and others, like the one from TG (8) that don't seem to connect all the dots. Are you fed up with undocumented migration to the US? That is what you would have thought when you supported and allowed successive US governments to invade, intervene and plunder Latin America, Africa and Asia for decades.
Posted by: Gabriel Moyssen | Aug 11 2023 15:20 utc | 24
That's another reason why there is a war on religion and traditional values. When God is your highest power and Heaven your preferred destination, the dictates, and threats of the pedos in government seem a lot less threatening.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 14:09 utc | 10
For thousands of years now religion has been endorsed by the elite to encourage docility in the population. The fundamental idea that this world is nothing and you'll get your rewards after death--a Greek stoic concept, until amalgamated with Jewish messianism in Roman Alexandria--is a key idea in promoting such docility.
The early and original practitioners of these religions were likely sincere and at a point in history Jesus' message was actually very progressive, even revolutionary. Instead of a god just for Jews he said God is for everyone, a great leap from barbaric tribalism. Nonetheless, that was thousands of years ago.
Using this form of thinking to understand and fight in today's world for the greater good is like putting a floppy disk in a modern computer. It's outdated mental technology, developed in a desert millennia ago.
I appreciate your disdain for the filthy culture the RC in the west has foisted on us all, but in terms of a solution to that problem, you're wrong.
The first step to solving the problem is class consciousness. Everyone that depends on a wage to survive is a slave to the billionaires. Not only do they enslave us economically but mentally as well, with their media, schools and shit culture.
Next step is to eliminate the master and his system of oppression, capitalism. Just as Abraham Lincoln led the war to end chattel slavery so a new leadership and movement must be built to end wage/debt slavery.
It is not impossible, the psyops of the RC just make it appear so. 1789, 1865, 1917.
Individuals can and do chose religion in their personal lives and I have no issue with that. If they take its principles seriously they tend to be good neighbors.
However for the complex problems we deal with at the bar, that form of thinking is just inferior to materialism, which everyone from Marx and Darwin to Hudson more recently have employed to allow the populace a clearer picture of the world they live in and where the battle lines are drawn.
You can be religious, Love. To each his own. But, to offer it as a cure to the problems humanity confronts today is just fraud.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 11 2023 15:21 utc | 25
Montenegrin historian Slavisha Batko Milacic looks at the situation in Ukraine.
https://countercurrents.org/2023/08/a-successful-strategy-of-sergei-shoigu/
Nervous German @23
He's not smoking he is singing for his supper.
Hoarsewhisperer@16
This article by Juan Cole suggests that Israel is imploding. Not before time either.
https://countercurrents.org/2023/08/israels-crisis-is-not-about-democracy-but-occupation/
Posted by: bevin | Aug 11 2023 15:24 utc | 26
@ 12.
Well at that point Ukraine wont be able to field an army at anything like present scale.
Poland can't sustain an armed force that scales with their exaggerated sense of grandeur, nor is the population eager to suffer Ukraines current fate.
The Balts can scrape about two divisions (equivalent) between three countries. Then they're tapped.
Who else is there?
Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 11 2023 15:30 utc | 27
Pro-keevian sources are talking about how the war is now a "frozen conflict". It isn't, they've just reconciled themselves to the fact that NATO can't win. Russian success now on the Kupyansk front might knock down the whole house of cards.
Posted by: catdog | Aug 11 2023 15:33 utc | 28
"during the week there were 6-6.5 thousand attacks"
Machine translation has a difficulty with translations into "during" and "a/the" that is clearly implicit but in a vague sort of way, the word translated as "attack" means "gunfire", but this is a bit tricky. I would translate as "incidents of gunfire", from context, 20-50 shell per incident, should one write "6-6.5 thousands artillery barrages"? Nevertheless, the result is very understandable, especially if you have experience with English garbled by foreigners.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 11 2023 15:34 utc | 29
It’s another destabilization campaign for Big Business, Banks in the heart of EU, no different than the Niger campaign is now on the continent of Africa, to bring the whole continent into destabilization (absolutely US has the President currently captive) or Iraq & Syria to destabilize the Middle East.
Trubind1 (#11)
Interesting comment about the US holding Niger’s president hostage. It fits in with the idea that the US is behind the coup—having trained Niger’s military and benefitting via the coup by its weakening of France in Africa and in Europe by loss of uranium imports that they control, similar to Germany’s loss of natural gas imports due to the destruction of NSII. And the timing of the coup immediately after the Africa Summit in St. Petersburg allows for MSM linkage of the coup with the RF.
The US play is not only to weaken (and possibly destroy) the RF, it is to weaken and prevent Europe from independent actions.
Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 11 2023 15:37 utc | 30
"Volodymyr Zelenskiy has announced the dismissal of all the heads of Ukraine’s regional military recruitment centres in the latest drive to root out corruption after officials were accused of taking bribes from those seeking to avoid the frontlines."
"At a time when the country’s army is in need of new recruits, Ukraine’s president described the taking of cash from people who wanted to avoid conscription while others suffered as a form of treachery."
Who can blame them.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 11 2023 15:38 utc | 31
Some music to celebrate Russia's defeat of the imperialist counteroffensive!
The Sacred War by the Soviet Men's Choir...with English translation.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 11 2023 15:42 utc | 32
Ukraine wants the Russian-centric population of Kupiansk to leave.
Because the Ukr forces want to retreat. But why shove out the locals?
My thought. Thy want to burn the place down when they retreat. How dare the locals support Russia?
Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 11 2023 15:45 utc | 33
Yay for positive news from Kupyansk! Now onward and upward! No sleep til Brussels!
Posted by: Gerry Bell | Aug 11 2023 15:53 utc | 34
thank you b! and thanks to the many commentators too...
Posted by: james | Aug 11 2023 15:58 utc | 35
@20 -
Frank Zappa's observations and commentaries were bang on, but remain pretty much unappreciated. There's a lot of residual self-delusion here in the States -- could take decades for it to wear away.
Posted by: Adriatic Hillbilly | Aug 11 2023 15:58 utc | 36
"Nothing has come from the 'peace conference' which Saudi Arabia arranged on Ukraine's behalf."
Not totally nothing. MBS got some great photos, presiding with China and US delegations on either side.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 11 2023 16:00 utc | 37
@ Ciaran 30
the timing of the coup immediately after the Africa Summit in St. Petersburg allows for MSM linkage of the coup with the RF.
As I understand it, the coup happened on the opening day of the Africa Summit. Niger and Kenya were the only major African states to not attend, and that surely pissed off most people in Niger. Allow yourself to believe these dark people might have their own sense of agency and of their own historical necessities.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 11 2023 16:00 utc | 38
F-16 fighter jets will be delayed for another nine months due to training issues.The Kiev regime collapse will come before that. In any case, F-16 will not play any decisive role.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 11 2023 16:11 utc | 39
@ Ciaran | Aug 11 2023 15:37 utc | 30
you're wrong on the timing of the niger coup..
Posted by: james | Aug 11 2023 16:13 utc | 40
Hoarsewhisperer@16
This article by Juan Cole suggests that Israel is imploding. Not before time either.
https://countercurrents.org/2023/08/israels-crisis-is-not-about-democracy-but-occupation/
Posted by: bevin | Aug 11 2023 15:24 utc | 26
The Jews have a long history of being politically leftists for reasons that are apparent going by circumstance. They tend to live in somebody else's country and right wingers are commonly nationalists. Jews don't want to line up with the nationalist gentiles because they are not 'of' the country, they only live there.
Changing circumstance will encourage a changing policy. By that criteria, Jews living in Israel can be expected to drift to the political right as it is their country: allegedly their homeland. That would appear to be what is going on in Israel. Making the country stronger, expanding the territory, is a right wing thing. And just like in our country, the lefties are name callers that use law to stifle the right.
"The central motivation for that legislation, however, lay not in domestic politics but in the desire of extremists in the cabinet to ensure that the courts won’t be able to interfere with their plans to vastly increase the number of Israeli squatter-settlements on Palestinian land on the West Bank and perhaps someday soon simply annex that occupied territory. Under such circumstances, members of the far-right Religious Zionist Party were recently excoriated by Tamir Pardo, a former head of Israeli intelligence, as Israel’s “Ku Klux Klan.”
A complication for the right wingers is that Israel depends on assist from the diaspora, and many of them remain politically lefties and can be somewhat soft on supporting the Jewish nation.
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 11 2023 16:14 utc | 41
[Spouting common wisdom, common but not wise] And so it goes: if you want peace, arm yourself for war. That's why it's right to strengthen the Bundeswehr. Because an army is like a wedding dress. You don't need it often, but when the occasion arises, nothing else works. Meanwhile, the desire for peace has not disappeared. It is what Ukraine is fighting for.
What are these people smoking? Posted by: Nervous German | Aug 11 2023 15:17 utc | 23
I have a tale for this line of argument. No country that survived till today have experience a war as calamitous as Paraguay. More than 150 years ago, having somewhat justified grievances, Paraguay started a war with Argentina AND Brasil, because of nominal participation of Uruguay this was a war of Triple Alliance. It is estimated that after few years of valiant resistance, Paraguay lost 70% of men and many women too, and needless to say, quite a bit of territory. How does Paraguay survive today?
The country has highest military spending as GDP percentage in Latin America (but short of USA percentage), but the security chiefly lies in avoiding conflicts with Argentina and Brazil. I would call it Paraguayan option. There is no way Paraguay could build its arsenal to credibly resist Brazil, but avoiding conflicts is eminently possible, it worked for more than 150 years.
Mind you, proper preparation for war is a moving target. For example, a tank is a weapon that allows to strife the enemy while resisting anti-tank projectiles. But it does not resist the latest generations of those projectiles. Reactive armor was an invention allowing to resist a single hit in a particular spot using a controlled reactive explosion, but this advantage was eliminated with "two-punch" projectiles, necessitated further research and improvements. However, if the opponent has "drone supremacy", the opponent can keep hitting vulnerable spots until ammo and fuel in the tank explode. So you need anti-drone measures, which exist, but which can be resisted and so on. Then you need to consider mining, demining and anti-demining. Add missing aspect, and repeat for sea surface, underwater, air and space. Arms race consumes money and engineering talent, while both could be directed at other problem, preservation of competitiveness of industry making non-war products, transition to non-carbon energy, or caring for aging population (unless we decide to reduce life expectancy that became economically unsustainable).
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 11 2023 16:24 utc | 42
Just as a matter of interest when did the narrative that the reason for 'Ye Olde Counter Offensive' was to strengthen Ukraine's negotiating position first appear in the M$M?
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Aug 11 2023 16:25 utc | 43
Rumors that Zelensky has fired a lot of military commissars in Ukraine. Apparently the bribe culture resulted in too many escaping and Biden admin isn't happy.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 11 2023 16:27 utc | 44
they seem to be of the idea that the USA's slide into decline is the USA's own problem.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 11 2023 14:06 utc | 9
an eminently sensible position. the us government doesn't want to deal with that so they prefer to keep this shitshow going.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 16:27 utc | 45
The US could do a lot about immigration, assuming it wants to, by refraining from destroying other societies.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 16:29 utc | 46
my primary means of learning more about other countries is when the US invades one, then suddenly there is a lot of information (and misinformation) available. i expect to start learning more about Somalia, the US seems to be getting more active in Africa as the Ukraine war project fails.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 16:31 utc | 47
Some music to celebrate Russia's defeat of the imperialist counteroffensive!
The Sacred War by the Soviet Men's Choir...with English translation.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 11 2023 15:42 utc | 32
My favorite images for the song (and the title, Guerra Sagrada en Crimea)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QELap5eM-e0&t=24s
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 11 2023 16:34 utc | 48
Librarian 2,
One thing to consider is that Europe has lots of natural divisions. Channels, peninsulas, mountains, rivers, forests, combinations thereof, that enable fairly stable nations and cultures, with fairly developed animosities and distinctions.
Which the central Asian steppes don't have, so there is much more of a networking effect amongst the various ethnicities, which is why Russia can function as a nation in ways the Europeans can't fathom.
Posted by: John Merryman | Aug 11 2023 16:36 utc | 49
@karlof1 22
this negligence of the Dec.2021 proposals by the (critical) public is indeed surprising.
Since they sum up the conclusions taken from the core conflict of the preceding 20 years.
I wonder in how far RUs think tanks have gamed out various scenarios before SMO started.
I still am convinced that the Russians of course are doing the same as RAND and Co. have been doing for their D.C. governments. (Alas, I don´t speak Russian which makes serious research impossible in this field.)
Which means: How far into the future did those studies go? E.g. regarding Poland and the threat of stand-off with NATO over Western Ukraine.
My bottom-line, worry is this:
Putin very soundly argued that WMDs ought to be pulled back to pre-1997 line.
Eventualy he suggested a WMDs free EU zone.
This I found terrific.
Brussels did not dare to agree of course.
(But not even a publication like Le Monde Diplomatique found it worthy early 2022. They would call it "nuts".)
But the strategic problem has not disappeared simply because the public is talking merely about Western Ukraine as nonplusultra and nothing else.
So the nukes & missiles are dangling over our heads.
And this is the only reason for this war taking place in its current form.
(forgive me simplyfing it all)
Posted by: AG | Aug 11 2023 16:40 utc | 50
Polish mercenary says he is fighting to return historical territories from Ukraine to Poland, and the plan of the Polish government is to collapse Ukraine's economy and take them back without a fight.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1688968662290489344
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 11 2023 16:56 utc | 51
Niger campaign is now on the continent of Africa, to bring the whole continent into destabilization ...
Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 11 2023 15:37 utc | 30
Honestly, Africa is stably unstable, so this is not the point. I still doubt if a military campaign will occur, particularly given very strong cultural connection of Nigeria and Niger. The largest nation/culture in Nigeria is Hausa-Fulani, with 57 millions in Nigeria and 13 in Niger (majority there), there is also Kanuri nation/culture that adds millions on both sides of the border. Both Hausa and Kanuri have long statehood traditions and resulting uniformity of language, hence media markets. Politically, this creates big anti-war block in Nigerian parliament, driving solidarity from other factions -- ethnic conflicts are not a novelty in Nigeria, with sensible aversion against ADDITIONAL points of conflict.
Interestingly, during recent presidential elections all three main candidates had executive experience in banking sector, experience that was in part "troublesome". Perhaps it is not possible in Nigeria to be a bank executive that always stays on the straight and narrow, but it makes the current president both pliable to American pressure and to internal pressures as he lacks charismatic authority (invoking moral authority seems strange in Nigerian context). In any case, military option is very feeble, whatever public announcements were made, and sanctions will probably be feeble as well -- "sufficiently rigorous sanctions" being almost as unpopular as the military options.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 11 2023 16:56 utc | 52
My gut tells me that the Russian will get to Dniepr river but won't cross it, even in the south, so Odessa won't be Russian.
I'm waiting for Polaks, Liths & Germs to take on Whiterussians. I'll hope they succeed. Cross my fingers. Drang Nacht Osten !!!
Posted by: Lech | Aug 11 2023 17:02 utc | 53
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 11 2023 16:34 utc | 49
My favorite images for the song (and the title, Guerra Sagrada en Crimea)
Thank you, interesting video. It seems to me the Russians tore down the Marxist straitjacket and began to flourish economically after 2000 BUT crucially they've kept the anti-fascist fire burning inside. Good on them.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 11 2023 17:04 utc | 54
@8
No, Russia would not inherit Keiv's debt itf it conquers the territory of the Ukraine.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 11 2023 17:06 utc | 55
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 11 2023 16:56 utc | 53
I thought the point is to continue to loot African countries, so to do that they need to reverse the coup in Niger, among other things--the Chinese are offering fair, or at least much fairer, ways to sell their resources. I don't know what presence Russia currently has, although I heard something about sending Wagner there.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 17:06 utc | 56
Posted by: John Merryman | Aug 11 2023 16:36 utc | 50
One thing to consider is that Europe has lots of natural divisions [...] Which the central Asian steppes don't have, so there is much more of a networking effect amongst the various ethnicities, which is why Russia can function as a nation in ways the Europeans can't fathom.
Interesting hypothesis of geographic determininsm. Probably it also applies to other large States such as China and the USA. It follows in the spirit of the seminal paper by Robert L. Carneiro on the origin of the State.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 11 2023 17:10 utc | 57
Poland can move to western Ukraine
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 11 2023 14:46 utc | 13
I don't think all 300k can invade, but 100k easily could. In addition to 100k-200k Ukr taken by force from the streets, why limit to "Western" Ukr parts when there is no Russian army anywhere near? They'll go everywhere, from Odessa to Donbass borders long before team Gerasimov can get there. Or not. They could plant enough bases to secure terrorists for long term in Syria style and then steal everything and keep the war going thru a proxy of a proxy so this tass.com/politics/1659429 can continue. I don't think Poland's invasion will happen now, could be in 2024 or in a few years.
Also "Russia supports ECOWAS’ mediation efforts" to "restore constitutional order" in Niger (tass.com/world/1659425). Interesting wording since at ECOWAS summit they chose to "restore constitutional order" by war. So Russia, being very multipolar, chooses to support US in Africa.
Posted by: rk | Aug 11 2023 17:10 utc | 58
This seems perfectly obvious to me; I don't understand why Paul Craig Roberts can't get his head round it.
Posted by: Observer | Aug 11 2023 13:26 utc | 4
Robert's is an American Patriot. He say's what he thinks will SAVE the American Empire and NOT what is BEST for Russia.
Posted by: Ron | Aug 11 2023 14:56 utc | 17
Two things about Roberts:
1.) He does not like the Neocons, so everything since Clinton administration, both domestic "austerity" and foreign meddling.
2.) He was part of Raygun administration and will defend it ad nauseum.
I am not a fan of Raygun, but he has a point, in that I am pretty sure it would have been better than this now, if the crazies had not taken over after the fall of the USSR.
Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 11 2023 17:13 utc | 59
Did we reach a new low ? Kicking priests out of the 1000 year old lavra to now house soldiers in the hope RF wont bomb the holy site.
Posted by: hankster | Aug 11 2023 17:14 utc | 60
Since the beginning when it was spoken of "counter-offensive", I asked: which counter-offensive?
Counter-offensive is novlangue for meat grinder.
That's it.
Posted by: libegafra | Aug 11 2023 17:16 utc | 61
"Also 'Russia supports ECOWAS’ mediation efforts' to 'restore constitutional order' in Niger (tass.com/world/1659425). Interesting wording since at ECOWAS summit they chose to 'restore constitutional order' by war. So Russia, being very multipolar, chooses to support US in Africa."
Posted by: rk | Aug 11 2023 17:10 utc | 59
Yeah, that's not what they said. They're supporting MEDIATION EFFORTS by the ECOWAS, but they are condemning its decision to intervene militarily. Walking a tight rope, but Wagner is not in Niger for nothing.
Posted by: Lemming | Aug 11 2023 17:21 utc | 62
Other novlangue examples:
Unprovoked Russian aggression and invasion for liberation of Donbass.
Intervention in Niger for aggression and invasion of the country.
Installing democracy in Ukraine for coup d'Etat in Kiev and installing a totalitarian State.
Coup d'Etat in Niamey for installing a sovereign State doing the will of the people.
Posted by: libegafra | Aug 11 2023 17:24 utc | 63
Signs are that the SMO will be more or less over by the time any F-16s are deployed, and they are likely to be destroyed along with their runways before they can be used..as for NATO intervention, NATO is strictly a paper tiger at this point, with Turkey being the strongest member...But Turkey would not dare to get into a war with Russia, they need them as an ally or at least friend..
Posted by: pyrrhus | Aug 11 2023 17:24 utc | 64
Posted by: Lemming | Aug 11 2023 17:21 utc | 63
Maybe ecowas could also decide to restore the constitutional order in Ukraine, that is: install back Yanukovich as President?
Posted by: libegafra | Aug 11 2023 17:27 utc | 65
As highlighted by stories about corruption in the recruiting process, claiming salaries of dead soldiers, bribes for not being sent to the front, diversion of relief supplies, and black market weapons sales (not to mention things like organ trafficking), Ukraine's economy is being transformed into one primarily dependent on western aid which is spread through the economy by various corrupt schemes. I don't know what the current percentage of government revenue provided by the west is - perhaps over 50% these days now that the grain deal is over.
Manufacturing has been crippled by strikes on plants and the power grid.
Agriculture has been heavily impacted by loss of territory, labor shortage from conscription, loss of irrigation along the Dnipr, loss of export potential.
Energy exports have been limited.
Remittances from the Diaspora are currently estimated to make up 10% of gdp ($11b). [I wonder how much of this comes from the large Ukrainian community in Russia?]
Loss or even dimishment of external sources of revenue would cripple the government. For this reason the war must continue from the Ukrainian perspective, as curtailment of foreign support for the war effort represents an existential threat.
As soon as a settlement is reached the social costs of the war will need to be addressed. For now they can be deferred.
Loss of additional territory to Russia would exacerbate these problems, and the longer the war continues the greater the impact on demographics and the larger the deferred social costs.
Catch 22.
Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 11 2023 17:27 utc | 66
Mark Chapman has a new article about the changing narrative:
Set Spin to Overdrive – Losing is the New Winning
https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2023/08/10/set-spin-to-overdrive-losing-is-the-new-winning/
Posted by: Trond | Aug 11 2023 17:27 utc | 67
unimperator | Aug 11 2023 14:46 utc | 13 said
“Poland can move to western Ukraine, but RU will eventually attack them because Ukraine is not part of Nato. Regardless what sort of Anschluss deal Duda or Zelensky create or what they claim.”
————-
Poland might find itself with nobody taking up the Article 5 request. No point taking a disarmed conventional force to aid them, and as much as that would bacfire, going nuclear might be an even more onesided defeat for NATO. NATO missed its chance to disarm and partition Russia by 2006.
Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Aug 11 2023 17:27 utc | 68
But, to offer it as a cure to the problems humanity confronts today is just fraud.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 11 2023 15:21 utc | 25
##########
I have repeatedly posted that I reject the notion that I can solve humanity's problems with a man-made system or technology. I find Utopianism arrogant and, due to its insanely lofty ideals, impractical.
I also do not go for the class consciousness stuff. Every human has their own perspectives, ideas, and direction. Good luck getting people to line up in classes and stay loyal, particularly as we have less and less material scarcity every day. That was a cool idea at the beginning of the industrial revolution, but less so today where people can become millionaires even in 3rd world countries with nothing more than a smartphone.
I also dislike the class stuff because it eliminates personal responsibility. That I can only go as far as my class will take me and I can only accomplish as much as my class is organized and committed.
Go to Washington DC or the EU Parliament, and you will find no shortage of people who will claim to be able to design a future. The issue isn't that they aren't part of the classes with consciousness, it's the initial delusion that man can act like a God on Earth.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 17:33 utc | 69
Has it been mentioned that zelensky has just sacked all 33 of his heads of recruitment in Ukraine, saying it was to stop curuption ie taking bribes to alow people to leave the county.
Just as we expect killing of the poor by means of the front line.
Welcome to the futue in America.
But looks like the wheels have really fell off Ukraine this time.
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 11 2023 17:44 utc | 70
Mark2 no.71
Yes. See my post no. 31
Things are falling apart
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 11 2023 17:47 utc | 71
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 17:33 utc | 70
we don't have "less and less material scarcity" every day. that's why people are working 2 jobs and living out of their car. in the US, and I've read in Europe, the neoliberals/elites are sucking up more and more of the wealth of society.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 17:49 utc | 72
ThusspakeZarathustre @ 72
Opps sorry i did do a hasty scan but missed yours, still no harm done, its significant.
Whilst im here just to say i allways love your contrbutions steady and informative, What makes MOA the singularly great platform it is.
Cheers.
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 11 2023 17:56 utc | 73
"That makes it difficult for the Biden administration to get Congress approval for $24 billion in additional 'aid' to Ukraine. It does not make sense to pay for a cause that is evidently lost."
This would be true if the aim of this whole thing was to win a war. But since as we know the aim of this little chapter of the long running MICIMATT parade has always been care and feeding of the MIC, $24B is just a little more $ for the right people and thus will overwhelmingly pass no matter what the news from the "war" ...
Posted by: Caliman | Aug 11 2023 18:02 utc | 74
"..I find Utopianism arrogant and, due to its insanely lofty ideals, impractical.
"I also do not go for the class consciousness stuff. Every human has their own perspectives, ideas, and direction. Good luck getting people to line up in classes and stay loyal, particularly as we have less and less material scarcity every day. That was a cool idea at the beginning of the industrial revolution, but less so today where people can become millionaires even in 3rd world countries with nothing more than a smartphone.
"I also dislike the class stuff because it eliminates personal responsibility. That I can only go as far as my class will take me and I can only accomplish as much as my class is organized and committed..." LoveDonbass@70
A lot of deep and original thinking there!!
Posted by: bevin | Aug 11 2023 18:02 utc | 75
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 17:49 utc | 73
#########
People living out of their cars is a norm in America, not in China or Russia. People by and large are also not living out of the cars in the Baltics or the Middle East.
People work two jobs because they insist upon a lifestyle that necessitates it. Not to mention easy access to credit with has always (and for good reason) been a sin in the Abrahamic faith (usury, riba). The hydraulic-like power of compound interest destroys wealth creation and keeps the poor, poor.
I see and know people who become independently wealthy every day online. All one needs is a smartphone and an internet connection. Ugly people, fat people, not the brightest people. All manage to succeed where others are failing due to their lack of "class power".
So don't tell me material scarcity isn't decreasing. For everything outside of patent and copyright (two state-enforced mechanisms of control and expression), we have more. More batteries, more shoes, more T-shirts, more loaves of bread, etc.
I will agree that we have more junk. We don't have more quality items, but there are probably fewer people without shoes today than at any other time in human history when having no shoes was the norm.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:21 utc | 76
a lot of people have smartphones, i wonder how many become millionaires with nothing more.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:21 utc | 77
[email protected] Ukrainians do have a heart, even if they are taking bribes to save lives.....whatever works.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 11 2023 18:24 utc | 78
@47
Thank fuck somebody pointed to the obvious before I did. Anyone bitching about immigrants need not look outward, but inward.
You think American corporations are going to let Americans work in their factories? Lol, lmao even.
Posted by: shadowloser | Aug 11 2023 18:26 utc | 79
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:21 utc | 77
no they work two jobs to eat, or pay rent if they are lucky enough to have affordable rent, and it has nothing to do with credit, though god knows if you are poor enough there is a whole industry devoted to siphoning money you need to live on. and no, i dont believe people become independently wealthy with nothing more than a smartphone and an internet connection. that sounds like a number of scams--crypto or day trading spring to mind. i dont know how it is in other countries, but such poverty is very much a class thing in the US, hard to believe the same is not true of other societies--there are certainly a lot of protest in Europe. If you don't have enough to eat, or a place to live more safely than in a car, you don't have a surfeit of material things.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:28 utc | 80
a lot of people have smartphones, i wonder how many become millionaires with nothing more.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:21 utc | 78
############
Not everyone pursues the same things, with the same vigor. That's not a class issue. That's about the individual.
Each of us becomes similar to those we interact with. So if you're poor and you don't want to stay poor, it's probably a good idea to make some friends who have done better. If we continue to stick with other poor people who moan about class consciousness all day, we will probably stay poor and develop unhealthy resentments.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:28 utc | 81
Well, it's a hell of a way to denazify Ukraine. Getting rid of the hard core extremists by letting them impale themselves on the Surovikin line. I wish the great mass of the Ukrainian male population, who are no more neo-Nazis than the rest of us, didn't have to go with them.
What we in the West are doing, insisting that they keep on getting pushed into the killing fields is, as "b" said months ago now, a "crime". Hope it stops soon. Even though the SBU's active and many of the people have been indoctrinated, it's been difficult to understand for some time why the Ukrainian people as a whole are not calling a halt to the slaughter. They are tough and courageous fighters but there's a limit to what any country can take and I think they have reached it.
Wretched business. On the position for us in Europe, I should reply to "john brewster" on the previous thread:-
Public opinion is a pertinent fact whether we ourselves agree with it or not. Public opinion in Europe is mainly that the Russians are in the wrong. Therefore we are now heading for Cold War 2 after the defeat of Ukraine.
As said before, the Russians will absorb as much of the old Party of Regions area as they think fit. Remnant Ukraine they will neutralise. That done they will return to their 2021 security demands. Public opinion in Europe, and the desire of our politicians not to lose face, will make it difficult for us to accede to those demands.
If the Russians are serious about those security demands they will get them met by imposing counter-sanctions on us in Europe. Probably, I'd guess, by merely letting existing contracts run out. Putin indicated that might be on the cards at the start of the SMO.
I should have said that more clearly first time round. Hope that's cleared up the question.
Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 11 2023 18:30 utc | 82
@ ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 11 2023 15:38 utc | 31
When it comes to hoovering up filthy lucre, I guess elensky just doesn’t like competition.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 11 2023 18:32 utc | 83
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:28 utc | 82
no im saying easy ways to become wealthy using only a smartphone don't exist, regardless of how vigorously you pursue them. and oddly, a lot of wealthy people don't like to associate with poor people. poor people rarely "moan" about class consciousness, as they are too busy trying to survive. this pie in the sky pull yourself up by your bootstraps bs doesn't work in the real world.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:32 utc | 84
no they work two jobs to eat, or pay rent if they are lucky enough to have affordable rent, and it has nothing to do with credit, though god knows if you are poor enough there is a whole industry devoted to siphoning money you need to live on. and no, i dont believe people become independently wealthy with nothing more than a smartphone and an internet connection. that sounds like a number of scams--crypto or day trading spring to mind. i dont know how it is in other countries, but such poverty is very much a class thing in the US, hard to believe the same is not true of other societies--there are certainly a lot of protest in Europe. If you don't have enough to eat, or a place to live more safely than in a car, you don't have a surfeit of material things.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:28 utc | 81
####
It is interesting that you cite America and Europe as places of "want" when both areas enjoy standards of living factors greater than much of the world.
But that goes to my point that the people who worry the most about racism are white people, and the people who worry about poverty most are first-world white people.
You don't have to believe that people are climbing towards better lives. I don't know where you are in the US, but if you take notice of what immigrants to America tend to do, they do not immediately join the DSA or BLM. They start working and saving, they try to give their kids a better life. Not through protest or class consciousness, but through old-fashioned hustle and persistence.
As immigrants throughout history for all of human history have done. The old ways still work.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:34 utc | 85
Mark2 no. 74
Thankyou for those kind words Mark.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 11 2023 18:34 utc | 86
@ shadowloser | Aug 11 2023 18:26 utc | 80
I don’t know if you’re new here or an old barfly hiding behind a parody nick, but I sure do appreciate your comments to date.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 11 2023 18:34 utc | 87
this pie in the sky pull yourself up by your bootstraps bs doesn't work in the real world.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:32 utc | 85
###########
Perhaps not for you, but I and immigrant friends have done it many times. If one is waiting for someone else (the government LOL) to pull them up, then they are in bad shape indeed.
Perhaps a bit more social experience with different people would be instructive.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:36 utc | 88
@ Caliman | Aug 11 2023 18:02 utc | 75
Winner winner chicken dinner! (vegetarian option upon request)
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 11 2023 18:36 utc | 89
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:34 utc | 86
it is interesting that you ignore that people in the US are having trouble finding an affordable place to live, or enough to eat, when you claim the standard of living is so high. i think the people who worry the most about racism are the targets of it, (i didn't mention racism by the way, you did). i notice a lot of immigrants in the US, I see them all the time working low wage jobs and standing on streetcorners hoping somebody will come offer them some work. the old ways aren't working because so many of the jobs have gone to China and other countries. it is interesting that you switch back to the "old ways" of living when you were just touting some magical way of achieving wealth using nothing more than a smartphone. is there any society on earth where that is true? where?
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:40 utc | 90
Alexander Mercouris and Larry Johnson both expresses disagreement with Scott Ritter on his Gonzalo Lira accusations.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 11 2023 18:43 utc | 91
Brian Berletic said it arose from some personal dispute between Lira and Ritter, and was quite scathing about Ritter's stance.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:48 utc | 92
Re: Russia's long-term security ideals
Does the bar generally believe that Putin (who will not be leader forever) is willing to go to war with NATO directly to realize their security demands after Ukraine is resolved (assuming those concerns persist), or is the consensus that the Russians will be more likely to cautiously play it slow and hope the West collapses on its own?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:50 utc | 93
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:36 utc | 89
meanwhile the cost of housing skyrockets, making a traditional means of acquiring wealth out of reach of most people, and the cost of education has perhaps risen even more, ruling out another traditional means of pulling yourself up out of reach. meanwhile a lot of the good jobs have left the US, so that avenue is gone, too. and food and gas cost a lot more. amazing that more people don't avail themselves of this magical wealth producing smartphone tool instead of living on the edge. is it daytrading? crypto speculation? playing the stock market? i see people working online, sometimes for far below minimum wage, at temp jobs they acquire through their phones. it seems unlikely that has made anybody wealthy.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:53 utc | 94
Shamus @ 79
Nah we"l have to disagree ther.
A bit like only wealthy passenger's getting a life boat on the Titanic.
Been hearing on the news how thousands of refugees are drowning in the med off the coast of tunisa. terrible wast of life.
Whys is life so cheap nowadays.
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 11 2023 18:54 utc | 95
Die ukrainische Gegenoffensive ist gescheitert (The Ukrainian counter offensive has failed) https://www.telepolis.de/features/Die-ukrainische-Gegenoffensive-ist-gescheitert-9241084.html
Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 11 2023 18:55 utc | 96
https://www.unz.com/article/coup-in-niger-could-derail-this-strategic-pipeline/
One thing that got halted, however, is the $13 billion USD, 5,600-kilometer Trans-Saharan Gas Pipeline (TSGP) which was slated to deliver 30 billion cubic meters (bcm) of natural gas to Europe. The pipeline would riun from Warri, Nigeria, via Niger, to the Hassan R’Mel gas hub in Algeria where it would connect to existing gas pipelines to Europe.
I still think Germany will become a vassal state of Russia.
Posted by: snake | Aug 11 2023 18:57 utc | 97
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2023 18:36 utc | 89
i have quite a lot of experience with all kinds of groups, and invariably the ones who so fervently espouse some Horatio Alger bs were born on third base and think they hit a triple, as Molly Ivins used to say. all the traditional avenues of acquiring economic security are failing. don't know about the magical smartphone industry, but people generally want something in return for paying you well, and I wonder what that something might be.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 11 2023 18:59 utc | 98
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 11 2023 17:10 utc | 58
Switzerland is a nice example of peaceful co-existence.
Good fences make good neighbours; and a good mountain makes for even better neighbours.
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 11 2023 19:00 utc | 99
If a properly run plebiscite were run today the Russians would end up with all the regions they have taken with the exception of Kerson. They will have to take more land so that they can negotiate land access to Crimea through Kerson and run a gerimandered plebiscite across the south.
The Ukrainians will come to their senses if the West dumps them.
Posted by: ATM | Aug 11 2023 19:02 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
You are right, the Korean analogies are wishful thinking on the part of NATO, which excels in the art. Anyone who knows what the US did to Korea will understand that the situation in New Russia could not be much more different.
In the end, within a couple of years, the position of Korea will change and the armistice replaced by the beginning of the re-unification of one of the world's oldest nation-states. This will mark a decisive defeat for imperialism in Ukraine.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 11 2023 13:16 utc | 1