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August 22, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-199
Comments
Posted by: Mike R | Aug 23 2023 13:39 utc | 296
Wonder how this “risk aversity” will show in practice?
AFU forcing crazy landings over Dnepr? AFU continuously taking new troops to take Robotyne, RU withdraw, bombard, take it back. Piling men and equipment into Urozhaine to prepare for the next attack, and RU bombard that pile-up with high efficiency? The continuous attacks on Kleschevka-Kurdumyivka, and Dubrovo around Artemovsk?
Every attack are failure.
If the risk aversity equates to not attacking, then RU will be attacking. Actually they already are attacking regardless of the AFU attacks everywhere, which is really telling of the whole situation.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 13:57 utc | 301
He is a Shadow of his former self, or, ‘Only the Shadow knows.’
Counting from 200 on up
————————————————————-
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 6:43 utc | 202
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 7:03 utc | 207
Do not attempt to draw false parallels between your hysterical ravings and Putin’s very rational, very appropriate warnings.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 7:23 utc | 210
Posted by: martina.holst@gmx.de | Aug 23 2023 7:37 utc | 211
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 23 2023 7:38 utc | 212
Posted by: shаdοwbrain | Aug 23 6:57 | 205
Since US has no borders in the south, it could be easily utilized to build a spy network who can cause damage to US factories and infrastructure. Maybe similar as these small drone attacks in Russia.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 7:50 utc | 213
Posted by: shadowbore | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
There are hundreds more homicides across the USA that I haven’t listed. Sorry I don’t have the data for Langley for you.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 23 2023 8:16 utc | 218
I think a lot of people — the pro-shadowbanderites and the anti-shadowbanderites — are not considering just how hard it is for Russia to effectively fight a proxy war against the US and its allies.
Posted by: SCCC | Aug 23 2023 8:39 utc | 221
So, let me get this right. Youre more concerned that putin is “doing nothing to stop” the killing of civilians by kiev terrorists than you are about kiev committing such atrocities?
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 10:26 utc | 241
And no, just because I defend shadowbanned when he/she is making factually true statements doesn’t mean I support his/her crazy proposals.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 11:01 utc | 252
And when that days comes, Shadowbanned will be here strutting around, handing out a ton of “I told you so”s, and whistling all day, huge smile on his face all day and into the next. …because he cates about Russian lives so much
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 11:17 utc | 256
Cue in the usual hopium junkies with the reassurances that this is no big deal. Just a pin prick bro. Meanwhile the steady degradation of important assets continues.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 11:38 utc | 264
Any chance it is fake?
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:40 utc | 265
Would someone hand Zanon, ermm, I mean, shadowbanned a tissue? I think he needs to wipe up.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 23 2023 11:43 utc | 266
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 23 2023 11:44 utc | 267
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:50 utc | 268
What is the Kremlin going to do about this? It is completely inadmissible for this to be allowed to continue.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 12:04 utc | 271
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:15 utc | 273
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:19 utc | 274
———————————————————-
‘Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?’ Cicero, Orationes.
This speech was given by Cicero in the Temple of Jupiter Stator (the speech was not held in the Roman Senate for security reasons) on the eighth of November in 63 BC in order to uncover and punish the second Catilinarian conspiracy, an attempted coup by Catiline and his supporters against the Roman Republic.
The phrase is occasionally used nowadays in order to unmask the hypocrisy from a person. Normally it is spoken with a dolorous tone. Predictably it is a vastly more common expression in countries that require their children to study Latin, such as in Italy.
[https://dictionary.sensagent.com/Quousque%20tandem%20abutere,%20Catilina,%20patientia%20nostra_/en-en/%5D
The oration continues, Quamdiu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? Quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia?, meaning “For how long will that madness of yours mock us? To what end will your unbridled effrontery toss itself about?”, forming a notable ascending tricolon.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 23 2023 13:58 utc | 302
Though I doubt a single one of those bloodthirsty Jewish Bolsheviks had good intentions.
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 23 2023 2:26 utc | 163
Ja, ja, now go sieg-heil with your co-ideologues in downtown Lvov/Lviv/whatever. You studied Mein Kampf and other works of the simialr vein and caliber really hard. And you have the brazen temerity to masquerade as a moral, God-fearing person.
The tale of the last Romanovs always saddened me a little bit.
Then I realized they were the architects of their own tragedy.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 3:38 utc | 179
This. The last Tsar espexially and his wife exhibited mind numbing levels of incompetence. His own family had utterly despaired with him. In fact, he was such a toxic failure, that the execution of the family (decided basically by a few jokers in the local Soviet) was not just a crime (which it was), but also a monumental blunder. The Reds would score infinitely more points if they simply “lost” him to the Whites who were only beginning to be formed then. The former Tsar was a political bomb that would ruin the the anti-Bolsheviks.
As for the crocodilian tears of the self-righteous hypocrites who bemoan the death of this absolute failure of a statesman, they never do that for the victims of his regime. Typically, there are some victims of more worth than others (blue blood and all that).
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 13:59 utc | 303
And dont forget the “petal bombs” the kiev criminals have dropped over donetsk in the past year. These bombs release hundreds of “petal” shaped bomblets which land over an area. They are small and green. Theyre plastic so metal detectors cant pick them up. The kiev criminals drop them on parks and green field play areas where theyre difficult to spot. They rarely kill, but when stood on theyll blow a kids foot off and maim them for life….
……a truly awful war crime which those in power in the kiev madhouse will ultimately pay for.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 14:12 utc | 304
Revelo@277
Does it make you feel superior to call other people ‘sheep’? Do you think that this will make us think that you must be independent minded, principled and rigorous in thought?
Does parroting Ayn Rand’s silly, dated ideas (“…Selfish amoral people who focus exclusively on their personal survival and personal benefit tend to be more realistic, more cautious, and ultimately much less likely to start dangerous wars…”) make you feel wise?
This discussion is full of clowns affecting to be deep thinkers who are merely revealing their bad taste in literature and their sketchy education- you are another, and a bore.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 23 2023 14:12 utc | 305
Russian military expert and the head of the Air Defense Museum Yuriy Knutov on the drones the Ukraine is using to attack Moscow:
Expert Knutov tells what targeting might have been used by the Ukrainian drones that fell in the Moscow International Business Center (MK.ru, Sergey Valchenko, July 30, 2023 — in Russian)
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 14:13 utc | 306
Latest West MSM spree: “Ukraine has destroyed a Russian S-400 air defense system in Crimea”– unverified of course. I doubt will see a re-visitation of the latest
headline “victory” that yields an actual “verified” accounting. Good grief.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 14:17 utc | 307
@anon2020 #227:
The more prominent excuse mongers appear to be knowing liars motivated by the prospect of real or imagined promotion. It is sadly ironic that papering over avoidable failures most often protects the inept from otherwise beneficial reform.
It can be worse than merely ironic: it can be that the inept are paying the excuse mongers.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 14:23 utc | 308
Compare the significance of a daily small plastic drone, smashing a windiw or two in moscow, with the allied bombing of dresden, or the carpet bombing of vietnam or shock andcawa of baghdad.
They come nowhere near in comparison. Yet shadowbanned is convinced such toys, which are ultimately less than the size of a shoebox because long distance drones would need a rocket propelled lift off which be difficult to hide on the oitskirts of moscow, are game changing or shocking in some way.
He obviously gets his jokes from master Z in kiev lol
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 14:26 utc | 309
Scorpion@163
Your crocodile tears would earn more sympathy were shedding them not just another excuse for another of your tedious attacks on Jews, who, in fact, constituted a tiny minority of the membership of the the Bolshevik party.
Why do you do it? Do you really believe that the Russian Revolution was a Jewish conspiracy?
Posted by: bevin | Aug 23 2023 14:28 utc | 310
One of many things that made the Russian Empire different from other empires was that Russia had not drained the outskirts of its Empire of their riches, on the contrary, it developed the minor nations which it united.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 7:03 utc | 206
That was NOT the Russian empire, but the USSR. There is a reason why the Kirgiz engaged in an anti-colonial revolt in 1916 due to a recruitment drive by the imperial authorities: they were colonial subjects and not citizens of a “common motherland”, to quote Putin’s own term. The Buryats fought with bravery in WWII, losing nearly 10% of their small community, if I recall correctly. That level of patriotic sacrifice was precisely why it was important to create a concept of multi-national citizenship which just wasn’t a thing in the Russian empire.
THe treatment of the Finns under the last Tsar, along with the intermittent pogroms show the mentality of the imperial authorities that had retarded meaningful progress and socio-national cohesion in the country. And that’s just two prominent examples. If one further takes into account the callous treatment of the ethnic Russian lower classes, one realizes how the rest were treated (the German community being an exemption).
This is also the reason why there are Russian neo-Nazis: the authorities promote a narrative where the anti-Bolshevik movement is treated as saintly victims and this is exactly where the ideological underpinings of the Russian far-right are to be found (and this movement was intensely chauvinist, without excusing, of course, various Soviet blunders in their national policies).
At the same time, the state continues wiht the Soviet model, that is, a federation of republics with no ethnic discrimination allowed, while honoring the Soviet victory in WWII and some other achievements of the era. The result is the cultivation of a Russian far-right, neo-Nazi movement that resents the country’s model even after the demise of the USSR. And these people have flocked in Nazified Ukraine since 2014, with an intensive acceleration after February 2022.
Without exception, all the Russian neo-Nazis captured by the Russian troops and the Donbass militia (or still serving as AFU personnel) stated the same thing: they are fighting the Bolsheviks…
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 14:41 utc | 311
Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 22 2023 20:54 utc | 82
There are seven administrations in the Bible. The people in the different administrations had different requirements to be righteous. One must consider to whom each part is written in order to understand the Bible. The “turn the other cheek” part that you mentioned was written to the Jerusalem-based Jews while Jesus was still alive.
1. The Garden. The only rule was to not eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
2. Patriarchal. One must follow the rule of the Patriarch.
3. Law. One must be or become Jewish and follow the law.
4. Christ. He was personally on Earth. One must obey him.
5. Grace. One receives Holy Spirit when they believe that God raised the man Christ Jesus from the dead and accept him as their personal Savior
6. Revelation. Begins when Christ returns in the clouds.
7. Second Paradise: Begins with the creation of the new Heaven and Earth
Apologies to those not interested in this topic.
Posted by: barstool | Aug 23 2023 14:43 utc | 312
Shoigue Generale without any military background, Whats going on with RF?
#
The GUR of Ukraine reports that the pilot of the Russian Mi-8, which disappeared a few weeks ago , was lured into the territory of Ukraine and landed at the Poltava airfield .
The helicopter was transporting spare parts for Su-30SM and Su-27 fighters, which also went to the enemy .
According to one version, the other two crew members did not know about the plans of their commander and were shot by the enemy after landing, according to another, they took the fight and died in the process.
Posted by: SlowSoft | Aug 23 2023 14:48 utc | 313
bevin @310: “…Jews, who, in fact, constituted a tiny minority of the membership of the the Bolshevik party.”
But that’s the way da Joos always work, donchaknow. You let a few Jews into your organization and it is all over. They use their Jew-jitsu to take over. It’s like magic. Exactly like magic, in fact.
/s
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 14:49 utc | 314
Ukrainians are boasting about a new underwater drone “Marichka”. They say it carries 2.5 metric tons of explosive, and despite having low speed if not detected in time it can/will cause catastrophic damage to a target.
Well, doubt it is a Ukrainian drone anyway. It is most likely some pre-existing US drone that’s large enough to carry the explosives.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 14:50 utc | 315
@UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:19 utc | 274
LoL, now shadowbanned is going to start doubling and tripling his amplifying adjectives.
Ethtremely, ethtremely theriouth!
It’s a form of double-plus-good!
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2023 14:51 utc | 316
[ Album ]
‼️🇺🇦🏴☠️APU intelligence tried to hijack a Russian plane, but the Russian army massacred them: the SBU is investigating the failure
▪️From April to July 2022, several UAF troops tried to recruit a Russian pilot to hijack a plane and land it in Ukraine. The pilot had to simulate an accident in front of the dispatchers. Kiev would announce his capture, and the Russian and his family would receive money and new documents.
▪️At the agreed time that morning, instead of an airplane, Russian missiles flew to the Knatovo airfield near Kropyvnytskyi, destroying 2 fighters, killing the commander of a military unit and injuring 17 soldiers, the runway, other equipment, and buildings were significantly damaged.
▪️According to the SBU, the Russian special services “led” this operation from the very beginning, telling the pilot to imitate consent to the hijacking.
▪️The SBU is investigating under the articles “treason” and “abuse of power”. According to investigators, the ex-intelligence officer Chervinsky did not coordinate the operation with the GUR and exceeded his authority.
Join our chat. Your opinion matters. Share the news further.
https://t.me/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
#source (https://t.me/RVvoenkor/43099?single)
@Slavyangrad
“>https://t.me/Slavyangrad/42719
SBU and CIA, operation Retarded Democracy Freedom, always one step behind. LOL.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 14:54 utc | 317
Posted by: Palinurus | Aug 23 2023 10:42 utc | 248
########
No.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 23 2023 14:54 utc | 318
@ Perimetr 82
I believe the editors of Counterpunch were snakes, just waiting for Alexander Cockburn to leave so they could take over. He died in July 2012. In February 2013, Jeffrey St. Clair wrote a BS article about the war in Syria, with big lies. Thinking he didn’t know better, I sent him an email with about 6 bullet points, briefly explaining his errors. I was miffed that the editor of this (formerly) prestigious site had to be schooled – or so I thought. But my anger only showed in one way: I used red numbers. Well, he sent me an extremely eloquent reply that said everything. He wrote, “F*ck you.” Just two words, no asterisk. St Clair had zero interest in finding out where he might have been wrong. He was already bought and paid for. In the year after that, a handful of important writers either quit Counterpunch, or were blocked there. Mike Whitney moved on to unz.com. The other 3 writers I know did not want to admit in public what had happened, afraid they would lose more followers if they said anything. So these 3 people have a low opinion of Counterpunch readers, unable to separate the sheep from the goats, and/or not caring to make the effort.
In short, Counterpunch became a cesspool, emblematic of what’s wrong with “the left” or “the anti-war movement” in the US. The site was easily decapitated and no one could, or would, fight back. Fortunately the internet is a big space with fresh voices. I haven’t been on that site in ten years, but I doubt it ever got better.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 23 2023 14:56 utc | 319
@unimperator #244:
South Ossetia and Abkhazia have announced their will to join RF.
Please don’t spread misinformation. There have not been any announcements from South Ossetia and Abkhazia about this.
It was Dmitriy Medvedev who wrote in his article published today in Argumenty i Fakty that:
In Abkhazia and South Ossetia, the idea of joining Russia is still popular. And it may well be implemented if there are good reasons to do so.
First Deputy Head of the Russian Duma Committee on CIS Affairs, Eurasian Integration, and Relations with Compatriots Konstantin Zatulin on Medvedev’s statement:
But I can’t say unequivocally that the idea of joining Russia enjoys an absolute majority among the population. I think it would be prudent to show some modesty in this matter.
Secretary of the Security Council of Abkhazia Sergey Shamba on Medvedev’s statement:
We do not have such appeals [from the population — S], and I do not see any political forces in Abkhazia that would see such a form of relations between our countries.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 14:59 utc | 320
@ Constantine | Aug 23 2023 14:41 utc | 311
a fascinating comment.. thanks.. i don’t know enough to comment..
Posted by: james | Aug 23 2023 15:00 utc | 321
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 14:49 utc | 314
Awesome once again. I’m stealing this.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 15:00 utc | 322
The GUR of Ukraine reports that the pilot of the Russian Mi-8, which disappeared a few weeks ago , was lured into the territory of Ukraine and landed at the Poltava airfield .
The helicopter was transporting spare parts for Su-30SM and Su-27 fighters, which also went to the enemy .
According to one version, the other two crew members did not know about the plans of their commander and were shot by the enemy after landing, according to another, they took the fight and died in the process.
Posted by: SlowSoft | Aug 23 2023 14:48 utc | 313
What does that tell you about internal morale?
If that pilot was thinking RU is winning decisively, he would not have done this.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 15:01 utc | 323
Putin latest…sending a message to ukraine troops…
“The kiev regime has now become ‘casualty averse’ with regard to its soldiers”.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 10:38 utc | 245
Keep in mind it is excuse making time between the Ukraine military commanders and the NATO commanders. Who was in favor of what is going to be spin. Here they are blaming Kiev for the death losses. It was Kiev, not NATO, that changed its mind. And if things go badly, it is going to have to be because of the locals, not NATO training or equipment.
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 23 2023 15:02 utc | 324
South Ossetia wants to join the RF, but that’s because North Ossetia is already a part of it, so it will be reunification.
Abkhazia would rather stay away from this shit show as long as Georgia is kept at bay.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 15:04 utc | 325
THe treatment of the Finns under the last Tsar, along with the intermittent pogroms show the mentality of the imperial authorities that had retarded meaningful progress and socio-national cohesion in the country. And that’s just two prominent examples. If one further takes into account the callous treatment of the ethnic Russian lower classes, one realizes how the rest were treated (the German community being an exemption).
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 14:41 utc | 311
The last Tsar does not exemplify the Empire. There were weak rulers in every country all over the world and all over the history.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 15:04 utc | 326
What does that tell you about internal morale?
If that pilot was thinking RU is winning decisively, he would not have done this.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 15:01 utc | 323
You mean:
Russia continues to lose critical, highly trained important pilots due to steadily eroding morale in the critical Russian ranks. As this continues, we will see mass defections of irreplacable strategic pilots, clearly because of Putin’s undeniable treason, leading to the inevitable and undeniable destruction of Russia.
Now cue the copers and hopium addicts demanding proof that the Ukrainian GUR isnt just making shit up.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 15:15 utc | 328
US army officer Dan Rice, advisor to general Zaluzhny, has advised Ukraine to use its older fleet of tanks to plow through Russian minefields to reach Melitopol. The level of competency seems very high in Nato.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 15:18 utc | 329
shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
Another fact is that Putin has an obligation to protect the lives of the citizens of the Russian Federation. But he is not even acknowledging that they are getting killed daily, let alone doing anything to stop it.
Three baseless reproaches in two sentences.
1) This is exactly what Putin has been doing in the last 20 or so years: Try to reach agreements with the West to undo NATO’s nuclear (plus bioweapon etc.) encroachment towards RF and protect its citizens from being forcefully colonized (or de-colonized, as the hypocrite phrase goes in strategy papers and conference presentations). History teaches that colonization is always an utterly bloody process (Conquista, US settlers, Boers in SA, Palestine… to name a few).
Military encroachment is serious. Just look at the hysterical response of Poland when a few hundred Wagner fighters (not nearly a match for Poland) moved in Belarus towards their border. Notice the outrage of the US when RF and Chinese ships practiced patrol in international waters off Alaska recently. Or look at the weather balloon. What a threat, soooo scary!
The West’s response (i.e. substantial absence thereof) on RF’s security proposals and the many betrayals (Gorbachev, Minsk 2) made Putin arrive at the conclusion that the West is unwilling and untrustworthy (agreement incapable). Consequently, he vowed to prevent by other means the repetition of the situation experienced in 1939-41, when the USSR trusted Hitler’s promise to not attack and abstained from timely defense preparations. A mistake that cost the USSR some 27 million lives. These (and in times of much stronger weapons and denser cities even more) are the lives that Putin wants to protect once and for good.
The insurgent Donbass population of predominantly Russian ethnicity, subject to 8 years of crimes under genocidal motifs, and on the verge to get overrun and slaughtered by a superior, atrocious Nazi infested force, is another group he is protecting. I’m aware, they were citizens of a foreign country, but there is still a moral responsibility, if not imperative, of RF to protect them. These people, who had lived for generations in the USSR, had no other choice when the Soviets decided to release them into another country. When this new country later oppressed them, led by Nazis whose abstruse ideology already caused millions of deaths on the same soil a few decades ago, it became clear that this was a lethal mistake. A moral obligation by the official heir of the USSR to correct that mistake arose. Formally, LPDR rightfully decided to secede and ask RF for support. All within the frame of International Law. Meanwhile, they voted to join RF. Putin was protecting their lives as citizens of brotherly countries. Now they are RF citizens and he is obliged to continue to do so, as you rightfully notice.
Given the scale of how many lives in RF are potentially at risk of future obliteration (as RF leaders have strong reasons to see it), the current sacrification of some of these lives appears to me deplorable yet reasonable. Some even say Putin hesitated / maneuvered too long before his decision, while others argue it was premature or even is not justified. In the end, it remains the decision of RF’s elected leadership. And they kept and keep a way out open all the time. A simple phone call by Biden and security guarantees, which cost nothing, would have prevented the whole tragedy. This alone proves Putin right. WW3 Armageddon scenarios are another consideration. Their result factored in, he may be saving many more people in the world by how he conducts the SMO. Which is in stark contrast to NATO, who e.g. obliterated in Sirte, Libya, a stunning 15000 civilian souls in just one bombing night under the pretext of fighting terrorists.
One more thing is clear: Those who fuel and prolong the slaughter are the real murderers, not Putin. Such is life: Firefighters may die in their attempts at saving the city. Don’t blame their crew leader for the victims in his ranks. The arsonists are the ones to blame and hold responsible.
2) The acknowledgement people feel the most (especially if missing) is measured between thumb and index finger. Important for people risking life, limb and mental health is financial aid for them and their families if they (long-time) suffer or die. This is in place in RF. Complaints? Probably, still. – But look at US veterans. Not nearly enough is done (and could be done, considering the wealth of the country) to address their propensity to homelessness, PTSD, DU sickness, substance abuse, suicides etc. Tell us: What kind of acknowledgement is this? Until proven otherwise, I call it a bad one by big-mouthed flag wavers.
3) Putin did precisely indicate in 2022 and before under which circumstances he will stop (actually even abstain from) the killing. His demands are on the table and deal exclusively with the issues outlined above. Land seizure goals just were (and probably will be continued to be) added in the face of ever growing terrorist attacks with ever more long-range weapons supplied by the terrorist enablers.
Posted by: OttoE | Aug 23 2023 15:18 utc | 330
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 14:50 utc | 315
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 15:01 utc | 323
SloMo favors such developments!
18 months of chessmaster SloMo cost already
40-50k russian fighters lifes.
A large scale WAR would cost approx 40k Kia‘s as well but the with a positive result in shorter time (few weeks)
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:19 utc | 331
A large scale WAR would cost approx 40k Kia‘s as well but the with a positive result in shorter time (few weeks)
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:19 utc | 331
Says you?
You can’t possibly predict the losses of a large scale, fast, big arrow war. Worse, you certainly could not guarantee victory, nor can you guarantee a force ready to counter a full scale NATO (not ukrainian proxy) counter attack on Russia.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 15:23 utc | 332
RE: Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 15:15 utc | 328
No. What the story tells me is:
A RAF Pilot was bought and paid for to deliver plane and parts, guaranteed safety. GUR bought Pilot. Treason plain and simple. Pretty good offer I imagine.
The poor uninformed, not in the loop “air-mates” were assassinated.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 15:26 utc | 333
@330
„This is exactly what Putin has been doing in the last 20 or so years:“
After 20 years he realized that his western partners were only joking with him to buy time for ukraine & themselves?
20 years!?
srry but how naive & mindless u must be to not realize the western cirkus?
What a chessmaster, graindealer, manager (minsk1+2, NS, 300bn $,…..), judomaster, ice hockeymaster ,,,
Others would not need 20 years
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:29 utc | 334
Just realized (I’m slow sometimes) something that follows on my post @250 above: Most American troops are Black (that is why Black Americans are programmed by mass media to have a culture of violence)
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:18 utc | 257
You are slow. Going on 15 years ago RAND announced their displeasure with low (mostly black) minority recruitment. And that was a belated observation. US Armed Forces have been losing the argument to convince black Americans that “serving” the nation is still an honorable path to first-rate, middle-class American assimilation since that “woke” ass hick Truman decided to de-segregate the armed forces for the Korea Conflict draft, marginal G.I. Bill benefits, ‘Nam tours, and the several Gulf “operations”. Anecdotally, I cannot recall from my 60 years on earth a single black person, 18-25 regardless of HH income, who’s entertained enlistment in exchange for deferred college scholarship.
Now, you may be impressed by black faces in high places, but the brothers and sisters are no longer fooled.
• Records of Military Agencies Relating to African Americans from the Post-World War I Period to the Korean War, Reference Information Paper 105 (2006), 171 pp
• U.S. Army Center of Military History, WWII, Ch.11, Negro Troops’ Morale
• Long-withheld Pentagon survey shows widespread racial discrimination, harassment, 14 Jan 2021
Which brings this instance of UNZ-smirking certainty to
• militaryonesource.mil | community demographics
• 2021 DEMOGRAPHICS PROFILE, the latest year for which data are published.
[INFOGRAPHIC]
“* Racial minority includes Black or African American, Asian, American Indian or Alaska Native, Pacific Islander, Multi-racial, and unknown”.
Half of that 32% are “Hispanic or Latino”—but let’s not even measure Naturalization Through Military Service inducement and completion.
“Black Americans are programmed by mass media to have a culture of violence,” according to Tipper Gore. But you evidently perceive “black on black” violence through the same lens, rather than persisting segregation of every generational dimension of US America prosperity.
Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2023 15:30 utc | 335
No. What the story tells me is:
A RAF Pilot was bought and paid for to deliver plane and parts, guaranteed safety. GUR bought Pilot. Treason plain and simple. Pretty good offer I imagine.
The poor uninformed, not in the loop “air-mates” were assassinated.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 15:26 utc | 333
I just wonder why the GUR talks of sensitive jet parts, being transferred, but produces no pictures or proof. As they say, a picture paints a thousand words.
I mean, statements from Ukrainian intelligence be enough to fool the weak minded like it has shadowbanned believing, but im gonna need more than a story to believe any of it.
Perhaps Ukie intelligence cant show pictures, because they are ghost parts, soon to be integrated onto the ghost of kiev’s super fighter / pickle jar bomber.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 15:34 utc | 336
Damn Ukraine having to steal plane parts from Russia and bragging about it.
Things must be going so well. Lol
Posted by: Comandante | Aug 23 2023 15:38 utc | 337
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 15:15 utc | 328
It’s an SBU story. You can’t take SBU stories at face value unless with a bucket of salt.
Remember also, they tried to present a piece of water pipe as the shot down Kinzhal missile?
Other versions also include that the helicopter got lost and there are even bullet holes on the helicopter frame indicating that they were probably shooting it while still in the air.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 15:38 utc | 338
Re: Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 15:34 utc | 336
Agreed. The “stories” are getting thicker by the hour these days.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 15:38 utc | 339
tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:19 utc | 331 A large scale WAR would cost approx 40k Kia‘s as well but the with a positive result in shorter time
The war would have greatly reduced RF’s ability to openly confront NATO countries. Most of the Iskanders are kept in store for them, regardless of the kind of warhead. Ressources are limited. The “weakening Russia” game was openly blurted out by US and EU leaders many times, and the Ukrainians indulged for a long time in telling us how the Russian missile stocks shrink at a fast pace. – Are you sorry that RF does not play along? I personally appreciate the “sustainable” slomo approach, as conventional ressources are saved and nuclear war remains a bit farther away for reasons of having still enough arrows in the quiver for the next escalations by the West.
Posted by: OttoE | Aug 23 2023 15:41 utc | 340
Re: “The level of competency seems very high in Nato.”
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 15:18 utc | 329
Good one 😂 btw… do you know if “Dan Rice” is any relation to “Susan Rice”… ?
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 15:43 utc | 341
Posted by: SlowSoft | Aug 23 2023 14:48 utc | 313
Shoigue Generale without any military background, Whats going on with RF?
#
The GUR of Ukraine reports that the pilot of the Russian Mi-8, which disappeared a few weeks ago , was lured into the territory of Ukraine and landed at the Poltava airfield .
Behold the Liar.
He mouths the name of Shoigu, the scribe who keeps the books of the army.
He tells a tale of an innocent soldier lost upon his merry way somewhere.
Behold! He dazzles us with the revelation:
The learned scribe, through some hidden malice, led our brave soldier astray into the distant lands of the enemy.
Where were the Generals, their medals shining bright?
Where where the Majors, their swords flashing at their sides?
And what of our brave soldier?
Did he forget his head, that gloomy fateful night?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 15:46 utc | 342
@332
But with a SMO u can predict everything?
40k Kia‘s in a „police operation“ (due to putin) to denazify & demilitarize the ukros is pure madness!
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:46 utc | 343
@ S, §320:
Abkhazia will likely become a federal republic, like Chechenya or Tuva.
By contrast, South Ossetia is almost an enclave within Georgia.
So South Ossetia is more likely to be exchanged for Georgian territory north of the Caucasus watershed, specifically Tsanareti, Khevsureti & Tusheti. The South Ossetians would be offered good land in their traditional homelands in Stavropol kray.
This would defuse Russia-Georgia tensions but the Americans would probably oppose it.
Posted by: John Marks | Aug 23 2023 15:47 utc | 344
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:29 utc | 334 Others would not need 20 years
He did for economic reasons after the destruction an plundering by the IMF-led gangsters under Yeltzin. War is a ressource guzzler. See my previous reply to you.
Posted by: OttoE | Aug 23 2023 15:48 utc | 345
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:29 utc | 334
After 20 years he realized that his western partners were only joking with him to buy time for ukraine & themselves?
Putin began the reconstruction and remilitarisation of Russia 20 years ago already.
Go back to the Southfront forums which spawned you.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 15:51 utc | 346
338
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/39832
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/39826
Posted by: SlowSoft | Aug 23 2023 15:54 utc | 347
How many of the drones targeting the Moscow region have successfully reached their intended targets? I believe the score is very few, if any. The airfield attacks (outside Crimea) have achieved some minor successes over the past 6 months.
The attacks on Crimea have been a major focus of the Brits and NATO using the airborne and space assets available to them, and assistance to Ukraine with the means to carry them out. Despite these efforts the success rate is very low and the strategic effects minimal.
By contrast the Russian aerospace campaign since the beginning of the SMO has had significant strategic and tactical success and continues without pause. I’m sure if the BDA analysis was available it would seem even more impressive.
During WWII hundreds of thousands of Russians fought on the German side or aided the Germans through espionage and sabotage. The reverse also occurred. So it is in war.
Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 23 2023 15:55 utc | 348
Re: Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:29 utc | 334
Well, there was that little 100 billion IMF loan Gorbachev saddled Russia with as well as a World Bank loan, and lend lease loan, a broken economy, starvation in 60% that Putin inherited that may have had a minor factor for 20 years…
But No Excuses right! Bad Putin! Btw way… all Foreign loans now at 37 billion total. Russias GDP to Debt: 18% vs US 113%… but yeah, debt has nothing to do with sovereignty right? Bad bad Oligarchy Putin could’ve done more!!
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 15:55 utc | 349
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 14:23 utc | 308
Indeed so, in fact it is difficult to think of any other reason why someone would offer money or favour in exchange for such “assistance”.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 14:13 utc | 306
An interesting article with plausible technical concepts. Even small drones with a tiny warhead would work for propaganda purposes and these can be smuggled in by saboteurs, inertial and optical camera guidance would be virtually impossible to jam. Defenses should be improved but either there will be voluntary peace or the sponsors of these attacks must be eliminated.
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 23 2023 15:56 utc | 350
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 15:04 utc | 326
The last two tsars exacerbated already existing problems that were piling up. Nicholas II was an unmitigated disaster, not just for the country, but for the monarchy as well, yet his father wasn’t much better. And in any case, it is the statues of these two monarchs that keep popping up in Russia. Not Peter the Great, not Ivan Grozny, Not Alexander I or II, but the two regressive rulers who damaged the country and in the way brought down the monarchy.
Worse than that, it is these two and the most reactionary elements of the White movement that are being rehabilitated when their values were and most importantly are detrimental to Russia. Hence the presence of numerous far-rightists who mock the Immortal Regiment processions and end up serving the interests of entities utterly hostile to Russia.
On a final note, it is heart-warming to see the descendants of the White emigres raise a monument to the traitor Vlasov in the US. True patriots, like their co-ideologues in the motherland.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 15:57 utc | 351
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 23 2023 13:58 utc | 302
Well done. When you put the pieces of the puzzle together the face of the lie becomes clear.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 15:57 utc | 352
Posted by: Revelo | Aug 23 2023 13:47 utc | 297
Putin and his inner circle certainly are.
There has been no indication that Putin is a psycopath. None whatsoever.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 15:59 utc | 353
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 3:38 utc | 179
hard to say what Scorpion actually believes, but there are some recurring notes in his vaporware–“it’s da joos” is one of them.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 15:59 utc | 354
Gratifying to see the takedowns and pushback against these racist trolling NAZI mouthpieces. Many thanks to those who took the time. If it werent for hate based shamelessness, fundamental dishonesty and whatever motivators they run on, they might peel off and start thinking more clearly.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Aug 23 2023 16:00 utc | 355
@332
But with a SMO u can predict everything?
40k Kia‘s in a „police operation“ (due to putin) to denazify & demilitarize the ukros is pure madness!
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:46 utc | 343
I didn’t predict anything.
Only taking you to task for comparing the real SMO losses to your fantasy blitzkreig losses, and its fantasy casualty count, fantasy outcomes, and fantasy assured victory.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 16:02 utc | 356
@tesla | Aug 23 2023 15:46 utc | 343
The police operation would have worked if it wasn’t for the West to interfer and stop the negotiations. Boris Johnson deserve a life sentence alone for this. So do Biden, Scholz, Borrell, von der Leyen and many more.
Posted by: OttoE | Aug 23 2023 16:03 utc | 357
Black Americans are programmed by mass media to have a culture of violence.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:18 utc | 257
Well of course. Any flaw in the black community is the fault of white people, and anybody who doesn’t agree is a racist. Thus the blacks can not be expected to deal with any problem in their own community because it is not there fault. Only a racist would disagree.
In the early part of the Vietnam war I think something like a third of the low ranking troops were black. With certainly they were overrepresented demographically. As, by the way, were low income or low status whites. The system had a way of protecting its own, and its own were the upper class whites.
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 23 2023 16:03 utc | 358
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 15:01 utc | 323
Now you are becoming really ridiculous.
Posted by: scc | Aug 23 2023 16:04 utc | 359
Posted by: John Marks | Aug 23 2023 15:47 utc | 344
It is inconceivable that the South Ossetians would accept to abandon the homelands for the whims of a Russian government. And it’s hard to imagine one such that would push for such an initiative.
If there is to be an ascension of South Ossetia in the RF, it would lead to the establishment of a unified republic as a federal subject of the country. But this is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon in order to avoid complete rupture of relations with Georgia. If, however, the equivalents of the Maidanists take power in Tbilisi and engage in the expected antics, this becomes possible both for the Abkhazians and the South Ossies.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 16:06 utc | 360
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 13:01 utc | 284
completely useless in mud. So, promising hundreds, thousands at this time of the year, is more jawing.
It’s a weird and wonderful paradox:
The more they send the more it rots.
Modern warfare is a strange, twisted creature.
The artificial intelligence in every feature,
Under a panopticon of electronic eyes,
If It Moves.
It Dies.
Across the deadly land mined fields
Go men, packed like sardines in things with wheels
Steal softly, like mice,
though caged in steel
Once seen by the Russian panopticon
Burn brightly, then bleed from lasered wounds that never heal …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:08 utc | 361
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0kMNAqoIW4
An interesting question: Is the Ukr. 82nd actually a NATO brigade? One Germans flag, one US flag……
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 23 2023 16:10 utc | 362
Posted by: Revelo | Aug 23 2023 13:47 utc | 297
Whatever flaws are to be found in Putin&Co, being psychopaths isn’t one. Curiously though, you fail to express the same virulence towards the misanthropic scum that have been rampaging around the globe for decades.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 16:10 utc | 363
Drones hitting Moscow. That could be small drones launched from close by. It is impossible to prevent this.
But it just shows the Ukrainians attacking civilian target, and that is of no effect whatsoever!
“Nice” to see that the USA has been able to pervert another country and Nazify even Jews!
What has this world become?
I can’t wait for the US political class to be eviscerated.
Z!
Posted by: g wiltek | Aug 23 2023 16:11 utc | 364
Echo Chamber | Aug 22 2023 19:13 utc | 53
*** I don’t agree with private armies to begin with. Or any privatisation in general. They are called a “public service” for a reason. ***
But where does that put the forces of, for instance, the USA (an entity hardly owned or controlled by its gerneral public, or serving their interests) … and the UK — not only, as its military heads have openly admitted, serving the interests of the City of London (certainly not owned and controlled by the public, or even the monarch!) — but also those of a foreign empire … plus of course seeking to impose the “values” and (asset-stripping, privatising) economic agenda of the NATO/US empire worldwide (NOT values to which the vast majority of the public in either the UK or USA would *knowingly* subscribe).
Yet the US and UK military forces are allegedly “public” services.
Why regard these forces — and Kiev’s in part forcibly conscripted army — as morally ok, but the volunteer-staffed Wagner not?
Posted by: Cynic | Aug 23 2023 16:11 utc | 365
…it is these two and the most reactionary elements of the White movement that are being rehabilitated…
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 15:57 utc | 351
They were vilified the most, just because they were the closest, immediate ememies for the Bolsheviks. Now the country walks the way of reconsiliation with its own history, which is necessary to become whole. Lots of mistakes are yet to be corrected.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 16:12 utc | 366
As for the crocodilian tears of the self-righteous hypocrites who bemoan the death of this absolute
failure of a statesman, they never do that for the victims of his regime.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 13:59 utc | 303
That’s such a good point.
I admit to not really having that thought very close at hand myself
but will from now on. I’ll try to make it a mnemonic. Thanks.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Aug 23 2023 16:14 utc | 367
… SBU and CIA, operation Retarded Democracy Freedom, always one step behind. LOL.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 14:54 utc | 317
Wasn’t there a suggestion that Bellingcrap fantasists were somehow directly involved in the Ukrainian end of this disastrous operation?
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 23 2023 16:14 utc | 368
@ Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 15:51 utc | 346
“Go back to the Southfront forums which spawned you.”
Arch Bungle (and anyone else), would you say that after the ban on Southfront (and the subsequent reduction in readership, I presume), some of the resources have been diverted to MoA?
I have the feeling that some of the recent commentators have the style/tone that one could find at Southfront.
Posted by: RandomLurker | Aug 23 2023 16:16 utc | 369
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 15:59 utc | 354
You’re talking to the wrong guy – I’m one of those ‘anti-semetic conspiracy nuts’ too, you know …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:17 utc | 370
@Constantine | Aug 23 2023 14:41 utc | 311
Concerning Russian neonazis wanting to target ‘bolsheviks’
There are some missing parts of Soviet history from around 1970 and on when the west obtained a degree of infiltration beyond what is being discused. This because there was a secret collaboration between the US and USSR. Not just the collaboration from the revolution which was supported with both money and military help from the US/UK.
And not just the extensive technology transfer Antony Sutton described in several volumes. The story that isnt told is the later phase during the ‘Apollo program’, That was when Sutton fell from grace from pointing to the collaboration but not with a full understanding of why it happened.
From then on until the breakup of the USSR the Soviets had a motive to keep secrets and to allow or fail to prevent some influence.
It is likely that silenced era, when exposed would provide clues as to how things developed. Dugin as a young man was attracted by such circles but wouldnt have understood the above mentioned connection.
The US/UK have a long experience of creating movements inside other nations. And not every part of it may have been covered by historians or even understood.
In Ukraine the same imperialists are known to have encouraged such movements.
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 23 2023 16:20 utc | 371
Echo Chamber | Aug 22 2023 19:13 utc | 53
*** When the world is watching and thinking about joining BRICS how you do things matters. Who you are and what you project matters more than anything as long as it is the truth.***
The truth only sets you free if you haven’t already been killed off.
If you effectively project that the enemy can/did cut you to bits because you insist on being “noble” (look up what happened just prior to the battle of Flodden for an example of what such thinking can bring about) then other countries sitting on the fence will either stay there, or join the victors rather thn get smashed themselves.
Posted by: Cynic | Aug 23 2023 16:22 utc | 372
Posted by: RandomLurker | Aug 23 2023 16:16 utc | 369
would you say that after the ban on Southfront (and the subsequent reduction in readership, I presume), some of the resources have been diverted to MoA?
Absolutely. I hung around for years on the SF forums doing battle with the hasbarats there.
They have a low brow, 12-year old intellectual style and a general dry-drunk aura about them that gives the impression most have been recruited from a crack rehab clinic.
Kind of sentimental seeing them here actually, like that feeling you get when you go back to your old hometown and find, as you visit the sole remaining shopping center, all your old school friends hanging out there and have turned into crack whores and washed out drunks.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:22 utc | 373
Trubind1 | Aug 22 2023 19:19 utc | 54
*** “We are a patriotic nation and believe in “patriotism”***
Fuck “patriotism”, if the country is ruled by traitors and enemies.
Posted by: Cynic | Aug 23 2023 16:26 utc | 374
Re: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:08 utc | 361
Excellent Arch 🍺 … get that “Memoirs Book” going… someone needs to leave an accurate record of the madness, as well as your time at the Bar…soused with the rest of us!
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 16:30 utc | 375
Despite all the silly, endless, blither and blather here and everywhere about this war from the millions of “analysts”, prognosticators, commentors, columnists, spooks, propagandists, bloggers, media hacks, and the myriad of other “voices” crawling all over each other like a giant mass of maggots in the intestines of a dead cow, there is one simple, overriding, fact.
If, for any reason, the Russians use a nuclear weapon to destroy Ukrainians, or Poles, or their various hangers-on, the Americans will do NOTHING – they will RUN AWAY.
They will not destroy themselves to save anyone else. In the final analysis they are merely bullies and, as such, they are cowards and will run away if they face the imminency that their own survival is jeopardized.
The silly Poles and European US toadies need to understand this, if they understand nothing else
Posted by: HOGGY | Aug 23 2023 16:32 utc | 376
Posted by: John Marks | Aug 23 2023 15:47 utc | 344
So South Ossetia is more likely to be exchanged for Georgian territory north of the Caucasus watershed, specifically Tsanareti, Khevsureti & Tusheti. The South Ossetians would be offered good land
British, right? Only a Brit of the old imperial stripe could so glibly imagine lands and peoples being shuffled around like this.
The South Ossetians are an ancient and deep rooted people. They are the last descendants of the Alans and have roamed that land since the dawn of time. They will not accept any ‘exchanges’.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:33 utc | 377
sln2002 @335
Sure, there are a number of dimensions to the prevalence of violence among America’s Black population. It isn’t just the presstitutes, the movie/TV studios, the music producers who are responsible for Black masculinity being defined by violence. Being economically lumpenized/alienated plays a big part as well. It is also easy to turn Black Americans off to the idea of developing economically viable skill sets by keeping the shame of slavery fresh in their minds* and linking it to capitalist wage slavery. It is tough to be happy about hard-earned skills that make oneself a little better off when you know those skills are making the bosses filthy rich. But then that feeds back on the Black community, reducing their employability and forcing large sections of that population into the lumpenized layers.
*Aside: The “shame of slavery” that I mention is, tragically, not something that can ever be erased from Black American identity, no matter how good one’s intentions. The more one insists that melanin-enhanced individuals shoulder that cripplingly burdensome stone of “Black American identity”, the more you rub their noses in the reality that Black Americans played only the most trivial part in their own emancipation. The American Civil War cannot be re-fought with Black Americans as the main active protagonists without first making them de facto slaves again. In the current “Identity Politics” narratives, Black “Freedom” could only ever be a gift from white Americans, which is just dandy among the white middle class, but is shameful for the recipients of that poisoned gift. “Black American identity” is inextricably bound to this shame. The only way for Black Americans to shed the shame of slavery is to abandon “Black Identity” and embrace working class identity. Then their ancestors’ slavery becomes just one part of a larger struggle against oppression. A struggle they can then participate in and win true self-respect. Naturally, the capitalist elites and their middle class servants will never willingly allow that.
In any case, you know the US power elites want to send some Black troops to die in the trenches of the Ukraine, but they need to manufacture a narrative about how Black people got there first.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 16:33 utc | 378
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 15:18 utc | 329
They’re also going to concentrate their remaining forces and plough through Russian drones, artillery, ATGMs, RPGs, you name it, pretty clever strategy.
At this stage is should be clear to all concerned that the “front” has boiled down to creating new MIC sales opportunities and killing (dispossessing) Ukrainians.
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 23 2023 16:37 utc | 379
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:17 utc | 370
well at least you dont claim da joos tried to whack andrew jackson, or as far as i know claim the Ukraine war is just a masquerade cooked up by jews to take over the world.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 16:39 utc | 380
Wasn’t there a suggestion that Bellingcrap fantasists were somehow directly involved in the Ukrainian end of this disastrous operation?
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 23 2023 16:14 utc | 368
Don’t know, but considering Ukraine installed that transgender mercenary as their spokesman and who said Putin eats babies, it’s no surprise they allow NAFO Reddit forum members to plan their intelligence and military operations.
Btw, Zelensky today announced another increase of mobilization, without providing details.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 16:40 utc | 381
fwiw the present day Israelis are close to the nazis they profess to hate, and the palestinians to the jews in 1940 germany. but jews don’t run everything.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 16:41 utc | 382
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 16:12 utc | 366
What on earth are you mumbling about? What do the Bolsheviks have to do with the last two Tsars? These revolutionary socialists were involved in the overthrow of a liberal buffoon called Kerensky. How could you possible ignore this basic fact? Indeed, what does Alexander III have to do with them apart form establishing such extreme reactionary conditions and leaving such an unsuitable heir that the future of the country and monarchy seemed uncertain.
Vilified? Who’s unjustly vilified? Was it not under their perview that pogroms intensified, was it not Saint Nicky that met with loyal Jewish representatives in 1911 only to make Russia the laughing stock by playing along with the last recorded case of the blood libel Beilis case? Yeah, an infamous racist chicanery that started in medieval Catholic England in the 12th cent. had its last occurence in Imperial Russia in 1913.
upturned his own forefathers 90-year old wise policy towards the Finns that turned the latter into enemies of his throne? Are you aware that because of this crettin the Japanese had formed alliances with Finnish dissidents whose names were delivered to the Russian government in 1914 when Russia and Japan entered WWI on the same side? Are you aware that the tiny Russian minority in Finland was aligned with the Red Finns during the civil war there?
Finland is an important issue, because your beloved Nicky did exactly what the US-backed Ukro-Nazis did in Maidanist Ukraine. Why is it okay to ban the Finnish language in Finland, but bad to do so in Ukraine? And in every case, the results of chauvinist policies are the same: they undermine the cohesion of the country involved. No wonder the westerners want Navalny in the Kremlin.
And to conclude with your utterly ignorant comment that follows the crettinous official line: the rehabilitation of the last two Tsars has nothing to do with healing of old wounds, especially when the values of these two open new ones. It is about the whitewashing of those who brought the downfall of the USSR or cheered for it, often from exile.
There was no actual Civil War in Russia until late May 1918, when the western powers took advantage of the fiasco involving the Czech Legion and collaborated with various Russian factions to instigate a horrific conflict. May 1st 1918, fanatical anti-communists were amnestied in the name of “proletarian solidarity” as the ultimate goal was a reckoning with the German Empire. But no, people like you will always find an excuse to come up with concocted nonsense about the Reds (who had plenty of faults, mind you) to whitewash the western powers, bash the Russians, all in order to defend the scumbag who committed the greatest act of treason in recorded history: Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 16:56 utc | 383
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 16:39 utc | 380
Nah. There are anti-jewish loons out there, and then there are serious investigators of a multi-generational cabal masquerading under the pseudo-ethnic, pseudo-religious, pseudo-culture called “The Jews”.
That cabal is truly a cabal, it’s real and it does stand in control of the Western power structure.
In any case, the truth of the matter can only be determined through an investigation of themes and issues based on the following structure:
1. What do we mean by “semite” (A pro-semitic dedication to Palestine)
2. Terms and reference points: What are we actually talking about here?
3. Preferential treatment of the Khazarian mafia and their interests when compared against other power factions in the west
4. An analysis of the Western power structure and the control points and nexii of that structure and the control over those nexii exerted by the Khazarian Mafia
5. Privileged access granted to the Khazarian mafia to State institutions and secrets
6. Positioning of the Khazars within the western political, economic, intellectual, technological cultural power structure
7. Good vs. Bad khazars?
8. Evidence of a Master-Servant relationship between the leaders of the West and the Khazars
9. Evidence of Deep Subversion of Western institutions by the Khazarian Mafia
10. Totality of control: The breadth and depth of influence over the western world
11. The historical process of ascent of the Khazarian Mafia to power
12. Evidence of a System of Deception in Practice by … who?
13. Domination of the Western Religious System by the Khazarian Mafia: A Jewish God? A Jewish Saviour? Apostles all Jewish? The Notion of the Jews being the Christian God’s ‘chosen people’ ? Has the Western Spiritual foundation itself been infiltrated by the Khazarian Mafia?
14. Joining the Dots: The big picture
15. Other Cabals
16. Comparison with the operation of Other Cabals and Mafias
17. Characteristic Methods and Strategies of the Cabal
18. Where is this going?
19. What has all this got to do with Judaism?
20. What is to be done?
21. Anti-Jewish Conspiracy Nuttery and how it serves to protect the Khazarian Mafia
22. The co-option of Judaism by Europeans as a colonising force, as with Christianity and as the Arab and Turkish elites co-opted Islam as a colonising force. (“The Co-option of Religion by Elites as a Colonizing force”)
23. The Khazarian Mafia as a Politico-Cultural monopoly: Should culture and politics be regulated under the same anti-monopoly laws as governments use to regulate monopolies?
24. Case Studies
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:58 utc | 384
Mark | Aug 23 2023 3:11 utc | 170
***.. remember Nuland’s assessment in the leaked cellphone convo with Ambassador Pyatt in 2014? Remember her assessment then? “I don’t think Klitch should go in the government”. She actually preferred zigging lunatic Oleg Tiyahnibok back then.***
Seemed pretty obvious then that the Neocons were retaining Klitchko as a longer-term reserve.
Posted by: Cynic | Aug 23 2023 16:58 utc | 385
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 15:59 utc | 353
>There has been no indication that Putin is a psycopath. None whatsoever.
Wikipedia definition:
“Psychopathy is a mental health condition characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits.[1][2][3] Different conceptions of psychopathy have been used throughout history that are only partly overlapping and may sometimes be contradictory.”
Anyone’s who gives orders to kill, without hesitation, fits this definition. All top military leaders, and any civilians giving orders to top military leaders, which Putin does, must be psychopaths to operate effectively. That’s just reality.
Good psychopaths are rational, disciplined and control their more dangerous impulses because they know they are surrounded by other psychopaths and therefore must act to serve the collective good of their organization, or else.
Putin’s lack of empathy and remorse is legendary. He’s as cold blooded as they come. He’s also bold and uninhibited when necessary and egotistical goes without question: you don’t get to be ruler of any competitive organization unless you think you are better than everyone else for the job, that’s like a minimum requirement.
Antisocial is problematic term. Psychopaths look out for themselves, which is antisocial, but rational and disciplined psychopaths are extremely valuable to society, so prosocial, especially when violence is necessary to protect society, when they are the natural leaders.
Most people in this forum are natural followers, fanboys if you will, and desperately want to be able to look up to and worship leaders of “their team” as admirable, good, moral, etc. Sorry to disappoint, but leaders of nations with powerful militaries are never nice people.
Like I said, there are good psychopaths and bad (good and bad for society, that is). When psychopaths fail to act rationally and with discipline, or society is not organized such as to channel the psychopaths into productive prosocial behavior, then they are bad. USA currently has irrational psychopaths at the helm, hence bad for USA. Kissinger was as psychopathic as they come, and bad for USA during his time in power during the Vietnam era, IMO, but even Kissinger would be better than the crew in power in the USA now (of course he’s too old now, I’m thinking a younger version).
Posted by: Revelo | Aug 23 2023 17:01 utc | 386
Is there a phrase that fully explains the attacks on Moscow? You bet, that would be called terrorism in any civilized country. Every godamm time the US goes to war terror on the opponent civilians is always on display. Fuck, they still brag about shock and awe.
Talk about disfunction.
Posted by: Ronnie James | Aug 23 2023 17:06 utc | 387
It is long past time that the bar turned on the ridiculous, ahistorical anti Semitic conspiracy posters that sadly infest it. Who needs paid bad faith actors when anticommunist idiots do the hard work for free.
Posted by: Brautigan | Aug 23 2023 17:09 utc | 388
The last two tsars exacerbated already existing problems that were piling up. Nicholas II was an unmitigated disaster, not just for the country, but for the monarchy as well, yet his father wasn’t much better. And in any case, it is the statues of these two monarchs that keep popping up in Russia. Not Peter the Great, not Ivan Grozny, Not Alexander I or II, but the two regressive rulers who damaged the country and in the way brought down the monarchy.
Worse than that, it is these two and the most reactionary elements of the White movement that are being rehabilitated when their values were and most importantly are detrimental to Russia. Hence the presence of numerous far-rightists who mock the Immortal Regiment processions and end up serving the interests of entities utterly hostile to Russia.
On a final note, it is heart-warming to see the descendants of the White emigres raise a monument to the traitor Vlasov in the US. True patriots, like their co-ideologues in the motherland.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 15:57 utc | 351
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I think the overall situation was and is much complicated than that. Your Sovietphila notwithstanding.
Leninism by any reasoned interpretation was a *massive* net loss for a Russian Empire/Republic that was rapidly modernizing. Damn near everyone including ironically many Boksheviks, would’ve been better off without civil war, red terror & batshit insane Marxist pseudo-science.
To the nex point. I imagine the “far rightists” you describe are exaggerated/infinitely louder than their numbers and thus are a small matter for the police to deal with.
As for the statue if the emerges did that, then they went full retard. As Vlasov was quite literally a Commie-Nazi and an utter failure. So they beclown and discredit themselves…
Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 23 2023 17:09 utc | 389
pretzelattack@380….mainly western education curriculum, school boards, corporate boards of directors, the clothing, financial, industrial, information, entertainment businesses and I welcome anyone to expand the list, it’s long….but open info on who sits on and controls most of these western entities, oh and let’s toss in Political subservience to an Apartheid shit hole in the ME. Prove me wrong. Name one western leader in the past 30 years that did not make the wailing pilgrimage before they were elected. How many western conglomerates sits in the hands of entirely Hispanic, African American or First Nations hands? A token few if any, “oh, look, we are so diverse’ we allow anyone of any stripe to control trillions. of dollars. Internationally, today, billions are chicken feed.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 23 2023 17:10 utc | 390
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 23 2023 16:20 utc | 371
Were you provided with hallucinogenics during your indoctrination sessions?
In January 1918, the Bolsheviks unilaterally repudiated Russia’s debts to western bankers and closed the country to them for many decades. They revealed the secret agreements between Russia and the western powers to further expand their colonial possessions, especially in Ottoman territories. And finally, they were eager to take Russia out of the war, although definitely not on humiliating terms as it happened in Brest-Litovsk.
And yet, there are still individuals who believe that the same wesern powers aided in the ascendancy of the Reds. This type of unhinged reasoning (if the latter word can be applied) is ismply unnatural. But it shows how degrading to one’s intellect propaganda can be. I mean, one could accuse of the Reds being in cahoots with the Germans – indirectly, they were – but why the hell the same westerners who didn’t allow Lenin to return to Russia even AFTER the fall of the monarchy opted to back the Bolsheviks?
This level of derangement is common in the west, even before the White emigres, especially those of German origin, pushed their conspiratorial crap. From the medieval lepers, to Jewish sects, to masonic lodges, to the “Yellow Peril”, to Judeo-Bolshevik subversives, to Cultural Marxism, to Russiagate, the western countries are constantly under threat by hidden corrupting plotting foes.
The one actual enemy that never appears to threaten the westerners, the overpowerful oligarchy, is right before their faces. But one cannot denounce this oligarchy: it would constitute “kommyouneesm”…
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 17:16 utc | 391
In short, Counterpunch became a cesspool, emblematic of what’s wrong with “the left” or “the anti-war movement” in the US. The site was easily decapitated and no one could, or would, fight back. Fortunately the internet is a big space with fresh voices. I haven’t been on that site in ten years, but I doubt it ever got better.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 23 2023 14:56 utc | 319
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Jess, I agree with you totally. I was a long-time reader of CP and found it to be a useful source of information. It became clear to me sometime after the 2014 Maidan Coup, that something was wrong at CP, but I chalked it up to CP allowing a larger selection of views to be published on CP. Then when the SMO started in February of 2022, it became quite clear to me that CP has been captured by the Neo-Lib’s and Neo-Cons of the Democratic Party.
I still skim through CP from time to time, and until recently, CP did publish some decent anti-war and anti-NATO articles, but now most of that is gone, or edited so as to attack Russia at every opportunity.
Posted by: Ed | Aug 23 2023 17:17 utc | 392
@Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 16:58 utc | 384
About the assumed power of the ‘jews’
“That cabal is truly a cabal, it’s real and it does stand in control of the Western power structure”
If that is so why isnt Israel much more powerful and successful?
In control means it could accomplish the greater Israel plan
Instead Israel behaves like previous anglosaxon colonies.
Except for allowing some of the ‘indians’ to have a seat in parliament.
In my view you are looking at an anglosaxon colonial project including the invasion of the US power structure by the angloamerican establishment – made in Britain.
And that cabals various branches originated from british freemasonry.
And the plan was never to give the cabal power to use other than in the interest of the anglosaxon empire.
The British Israel idea that anglosaxons and celts are the real jews why did Britain need that? Other than to make it clear to the jews that Britain owned even their jewish identity.
The plan was instead to maintain them in a state of dependency.
Fearing to loose the protection by the anglosaxons.
And the bankers do they really have the freedom to use the money they are assumed to own as they see fit?
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 23 2023 17:21 utc | 393
A plane crashed in Russia. Prigoschin among victims?
Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 23 2023 17:27 utc | 394
Posted by: james aka yes-man | Aug 23 2023 17:21 utc | 394
No its 5D chess with grandchessmaster flash! ))))
Posted by: tesla | Aug 23 2023 17:32 utc | 396
Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 23 2023 17:09 utc | 389
When one lacks arguments, one accuses the other for bias, here Sovietophilia. You didn’t even read what I posted.
As for your assertion that Russia was modernizing, that reveals stratospheric levels of ignorance.
The mass of the population in an abysmal, degraded state, illiteracy was through the roof and that was about the ethnic Russians. The authorities weren’t even aware who lived in the country and the state and status of non-Russian groups was one that lead to tensions.
I mean, even Solzhenitsyn who despised the Reds realized in the end that the revolution wasn’t just a product of caricaturesque plotters, but gross, unimaginable government failures. He attributed the tendency of the Russians to support the Reds (when he began to comprehend that it wasn’t a great Jewish plot) to the horrid state of affairs in the country and the mismanagement of the war effort. Thus, he concluded that the Russians were “confused”.
The Tsar’s own family lefta very dismal image of the man and that is before we go to the liberal parade. Because that’s where the Reds come in. The October Revolution doesn’t involve any Tsar. Period. But in your ignorance, everything has morphed into one super plot against the saintly monarch.
As for the Civil War, why blame the western powers that instigated it? It must have been the “kommyouneests”. A conclusion of similar quality with that about any Marxist “pseudo-science”.
And none of that has anything to do with Sovietophilia. History is replete with declining political cultures and countries, with grossly incompetent rulers and decadent elites as well as with crushing defeats in devastating conflicts. But when it comes with a specific revolution that involved a mixed economy (i.e. shafting the oligarchy) and denunciation of colonialism and the concept of racial hierarchy, suddenly all morphs into one fancy plot involving shadowy, cult-like groups.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 23 2023 17:38 utc | 397
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 16:33 utc | 378
wow. You must be some kind of Evelyn Wood speed reader and a Malcom Nance fan fiction contributor.
Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2023 17:40 utc | 398
Posted by: james aka yes-man | Aug 23 2023 17:21 utc | 394
Are you autist or brain dead? So you never knew what usually happens with terrorists and traitors in Russia? You can now learn something new then.
Posted by: sfx | Aug 23 2023 17:45 utc | 399
This little Priggy went wee wee wee all the way to the ground.
Let the conspiracy theories commence…
Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 23 2023 17:48 utc | 400