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August 22, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-199
Comments
now I’m just having fun figuring out how to say this…)
You’re looking for the ‘hosts file’ on your computer
Add a line starting with the IP address, followed by a space, then ‘www.moonofalabama.org’
Posted by: shoemaker | Aug 23 2023 5:33 utc | 196
I get 104.165.17.134 (not 166).
Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 23 2023 6:33 utc | 201
It should be obvious to everyone with half a brain how over time the size and frequency of these attacks will grow (it has been constantly growing) to a point where the conventional explosives may be swapped with something not so conventional, and there will be no reaction until it’s too late. And as I am also tired of repeating, it isn’t me who came up with this concern, but Putin himself, in countless speeches and interviews.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 4:26 utc | 186
Yes, yes yes, Shadowbanned, you say this about every tiny incident. My first impression of you was you flipping out about the Bolgorod incursion, you wre talking how it was only 50 afu this time, but could be 5000 next time.
And ever since then, you have gotten more and more shrill in your predictions, and might I add,more and more jubilant every time there is a minor attack, to even make a sick account yesterday,and then start partying over a minor attack, until I shit on your sock, and you used your regular account to try and clean the shit from your sock.
And tomorrow you’ll be wearing your “the end is nigh” sandwich board too, claiming every little tiny incident is proof of your Russia is doomwd prophecies, and Putin is a traitor.
And ill go back to ignoring your shitting all over the stools for a couple weeks, but every now and then I got to point out how funny it is you cake your pants every night in the bar, wake up the next morning, and think everyone forgot, only to waltz in here to trash your trousers again later that night.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 6:43 utc | 202
@JessDTruth | Aug 22 2023 22:46 utc | 118
Politically, Ischenko says, no one city will become the capital of a “post-SMO Ukraine”, so there will be no authority to define Ukrainian.
One major driver of the current war (ok, I get it is a proxy US war on Russia) is the war on the Russian language by the Kiev regime. To achieve lasting peace post SMO, this mistake should not be repeated by reversing the discrimination of language. Granted, the Russian language will be dominant post SMO.
The fact that there is no common norm for the Ukrainian language is a problem, but this is not a problem unique to Ukraine and it can be solved of they have the will to do so.
Due to its geography and history, Norway had a similar language problem. Today’s Norwegian language exists in two official variants, Nynorsk (“New Norwegian”) and Bokmål (“Book Language”). There are even 2 official names of the country, Norge (Bokmål) and Noreg (Nynorsk). Bokmål, spoken in the west, descends from Danish. Nynorsk was assembled from various western dialects by Ivar Aasen.
Perhaps a Ukrainian equivalent of Ivar Aasen is needed, to give the Ukrainian language a common norm and therefore a status that can be respected.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2023 6:44 utc | 203
@Norwegian | Aug 23 2023 6:44 utc | 203
Correction: Bokmål, spoken in the east, descends from Danish.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2023 6:46 utc | 204
The thing about Uncle Sam is that whenever he sets out to boil frogs he get’s boiled in the end:
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 5:52 utc | 200
Moscow is getting bombed daily, not DC.
Moscow wasn’t getting bombed at all until May 2023, and it has gotten worse and worse ever since.
DC wasn’t bombed at all in February 2022 and continues to be completely safe today.
And while nobody has been killed in Moscow, people are getting killed daily in Belgorod, Kursk and Bryansk, not to mention Donetsk.
Meanwhile in Seattle, San Diego, San Antonio, Detroit and Milwaukee they have absolutely no worries.
Those are the empirical facts.
Another fact is that Putin has an obligation to protect the lives of the citizens of the Russian Federation. But he is not even acknowledging that they are getting killed daily, let alone doing anything to stop it.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
One major driver of the current war (ok, I get it is a proxy US war on Russia) is the war on the Russian language by the Kiev regime. To achieve lasting peace post SMO, this mistake should not be repeated by reversing the discrimination of language.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 23 2023 6:44 utc | 203
One of many things that made the Russian Empire different from other empires was that Russia had not drained the outskirts of its Empire of their riches, on the contrary, it developed the minor nations which it united. Therefore if there ever was any discrimination of language, in Russian Empire it was already reversed. Russia forced the locals to create and develope their language, created its written version, published books of some local authors, which had almost no readership but represented the local culture, created textbooks in local language to be used in local schools and everywhere else should someone want to study the local language elswhere. May be the author means that this Federal astroturfing has no reason any mor, like, if lokals want to promote their language, they have to do it on their own penny.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 7:03 utc | 206
Moscow is getting bombed daily, not DC.
Those are the empirical facts.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
Daily? “Empirical fact”?
Pathetic hyperbole is all you got.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 7:03 utc | 207
I could believe it; Klitschko has so far mostly avoided the taint of corruption, is a patriot without in any way sounding like a nationalist, and most importantly, might be someone the Russians would talk to in an otherwise wall-to-wall dickwad administration.
Posted by: Mark | Aug 23 2023 3:11 utc | 170
Guess we’ll soon find out. If Zelensky goes down in a blaze of glory Martyrdom with the blame on RU, neocons probably didn’t replace him in attempts to begin any talks. And hard to believe they have that sort of plan, at all.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 7:06 utc | 208
Another fact is that Putin has an obligation to protect the lives of the citizens of the Russian Federation. But he is not even acknowledging that they are getting killed daily, let alone doing anything to stop it.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
He has done nothing, besides that whole massive, high intensity, highly kinetic war thing going on right now, the ramping up of production of weaponry, and the mobilization of a quarter million more troops…
Pathetic hyperbole, lies, and gaslighting is all you got.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 7:10 utc | 209
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 4:26 utc | 186
It should be obvious to everyone with half a brain how over time the size and frequency of these attacks will grow (it has been constantly growing) to a point where the conventional explosives may be swapped with something not so conventional
By your logic every single war the US has fought since 1950 would have terminated in a nuclear missile strike.
Anyone with half a brain would realise the course of events is not a line but a network of potentialities.
, and there will be no reaction until it’s too late.
A nuclear strike can come at any point within a conflict:
– Out of the blue with no “warm up”.
– At the point when all options have been exhausted.
– Any time within a conventional conflict, perhaps as part of a predictable flow of events.
– At times of peace through a combination of accidental events
In all cases, the reaction will ALWAYS BE TOO LATE!!!
And in all cases, the response, even if pre-emptive, WILL BE TOO LATE!!!
There is no concept of “too late” or “correctly timed” during any kind of escalatory path to nuclear war – the only way is to avoid war.
There is nothing that can be done to pre-empt a nuclear strike if one side ultimately has the means and intention to go through with it.
The fact that the U.S still has not engaged it’s nuclear weapons against Russia means that it will never do so except if existentially threatened.
Every other possibility is suicide for the US.
it isn’t me who came up with this concern, but Putin himself, in countless speeches and interviews.
Putin’s subtle reminder of the possible upper bound to the conflict was purposely and appropriately directed towards the Pentagon.
He was and is always very careful, unlike you, to provide the conditions and context within which such a nuclear use would occur.
Do not attempt to draw false parallels between your hysterical ravings and Putin’s very rational, very appropriate warnings.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 7:23 utc | 210
Meanwhile in Seattle, San Diego, San Antonio, Detroit and Milwaukee they have absolutely no worries.
Those are the empirical facts.
Another fact is that Putin has an obligation to protect the lives of the citizens of the Russian Federation. But he is not even acknowledging that they are getting killed daily, let alone doing anything to stop it.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
No drug problems? No mass shootings? No homeless people? Hundreds dead and missing after out of control fires? You are right, US has absolutely no worries. Which is why it creates problems by stealing Iranian and Venezuelan oil, and waging war on the entire world.
Yes, Putin has the obligation to protect his people. So does the government of the United States towards its own citizens – which probably is the reason that the US only wages war on those parts of the world that cannot retaliate against the US by bombing US cities. And why that senator in Alaska suffered a severe bout of panic when he finally understood that Russia is just 200 miles away from his constituency.
And the Russian government (including Putin) does acknowledge their dead. The Russians know that people die in wars. And guess what? They don’t get paid by foreign actors for their dead. Unlike that government in Kiev.
Suggestion: stop worrying about the how the Russian government treats those poor Russians, your government is already doing that non-stop. Otherwise they wouldn’t pay compensation for the Ukrainian soldiers dying in that war. Start working on your own government. That endeavor might prove even more futile than the other one – but then, you don’t mind wasting your time.
Posted by: martina.holst@gmx.de | Aug 23 2023 7:37 utc | 211
….while nobody has been killed in Moscow, people are getting killed daily in Belgorod, Kursk and Bryansk, not to mention Donetsk.
Meanwhile in Seattle, San Diego, San Antonio, Detroit and Milwaukee they have absolutely no worries…..
Posted by: shаdοwbrain | Aug 23 6:57 | 205
….coz everybody getting stoned …(or burned to crisp in Hawaii. What? Too soon?)
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/opioid-epidemic-database-san-francisco-chronicle/44866910#:~:text=across%20the%20U.S.-,%22The%20drug%20overdose%20crisis%20is%20impacting%20nearly%20every%20corner%20of,of%20107%2C669%20people%20last%20year.
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 23 2023 7:38 utc | 212
Posted by: shаdοwbrain | Aug 23 6:57 | 205
Since US has no borders in the south, it could be easily utilized to build a spy network who can cause damage to US factories and infrastructure. Maybe similar as these small drone attacks in Russia.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 7:50 utc | 213
99 HERMIUS
You are being too kind to Zelensky.
He is as leader responsible for all the Ukrainian war crimes, including against his own supporters. No excuse that as a puppet he is only following orders , because he knew his role before accepting the job.
Maybe the job description was to kill as many Nazis as possible to avenge the Holocaust.
Posted by: Giyane | Aug 23 2023 8:04 utc | 215
Just joined your Telegram Channel – sorry about your problems.
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Aug 23 2023 8:10 utc | 216
@ If it was fake why wouldn’t the RF debunk it?
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 22 2023 22:41 utc | 115
They said the plane was “damaged”, at least that is what I read as official statement but I had no interest to verify if the message was real. If they used the word damaged the same way US used it for their Patriot in Kiev, then the plane was completely destroyed. The bigger problem is that apparently a quadcopter was used, close range. They have a problem with sabotage/traitors inside Russia in addition to drones shot over the border. Remember the general in Crimea who lost an entire airport from a little drone last year? He kept planes close one next to another and the ammo and missiles between them. No defense, not even a soldier on a tree.
Posted by: rk | Aug 23 2023 8:12 utc | 217
Posted by: shadowbore | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
The latest drone attack on Moscow generated headlines in all your corporate media websites. It’s produced yet more hyperbolic, hysterical faux concern from your cubicle.
The drone attack in Moscow damaged two large panes of glass.
As stated every single day for months, your concern trolling to try and undermine perception of Russian leadership and strategy amongst influential readers at this bar is based on false data, exaggeration, demonstrably untrue assumptions made by you. In my and many others opinion, this is done in bad faith by you. It’s often magically accompanied by new posters appearing from nowhere who endorse your shite.
Trembling with fear you now claim Moscow and regions inside Russia are ‘unsafe’ unlike US cities. You need to get out of your cubicle a bit more.
US homicides 2023 to June 6th
Charlotte 40
Atlanta 40
Las Vegas 49
Milwaukee 58
Columbus 59
St Louis 65
Memphis 81
Louisville 89
Detroit 89
Washington DC 89
Kansas City 96
Indianapolis 96
New York City 100
Los Angeles 102
Houston 109
Baltimore 112
Dallas 126
Phoenix 137
Philadelphia 165
Chicago 166
There are hundreds more homicides across the USA that I haven’t listed. Sorry I don’t have the data for Langley for you.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 23 2023 8:16 utc | 218
An excellent article, written pre-SMO, that predicted the dangers of assuming your enemy will follow your preferred strategies. Also a very apposite, given the drone debate, summary of Russia’s understanding of AD, in particular the realisation that it does not create an impenetrable bubble, but is designed to deter, deflect and degrade threats.
https://warontherocks.com/2019/09/its-time-to-talk-about-a2-ad-rethinking-the-russian-military-challenge/
It also answers the question about the competency and predictive capabilities of Western intelligence, but, as Larry Johnson and other ex-analysts have repeatedly said, competency, in an increasingly politicised bureaucracy, is perceived as a threat if it generates a counter-narrative.
Posted by: Milites | Aug 23 2023 8:28 utc | 219
Add a line starting with the IP address, followed by a space, then ‘www.moonofalabama.org’
Posted by: shoemaker | Aug 23 2023 5:33 utc | 196
I get 104.165.17.134 (not 166).
Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 23 2023 6:33 utc | 201
Thanks Gents
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 23 2023 8:29 utc | 220
I think a lot of people — the pro-shadowbanderites and the anti-shadowbanderites — are not considering just how hard it is for Russia to effectively fight a proxy war against the US and its allies. Putin has my greatest sympathy and respect for his resolve and methodology thus far.
It’s like a boxing fight between opponents (UA and RF) where the spectators are continually throwing chairs over the ropes, trying to hit the boxer they hate. There is no referee to say “Oi, cut that out”, and RF can’t throw the chairs back because it’s against the rules to fight outside the ring.
A proxy war is inherently unfair to those who aspire to fight by the rules (RF), especially against a geographically isolated power hegemon with no blood in the battle (the US). Imo, the best and only realistic path is to tire out your opponent AND THEIR BACKERS into final retreat. One or two knockdowns won’t do it. It has to go 10, 15, 35 rounds until they (UA-UK-US-NATO) are all fully bloodied and beaten and braindamaged beyond ever boxing again … and the chairs are all broken and used up. As VVP has often said, “that will just take a little longer than planned”. 🙂
Posted by: SCCC | Aug 23 2023 8:39 utc | 221
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 22 2023 22:26 utc | 109
Trump’s surprise election victory, beating the fraud machine, allowed him to wedge himself into a defensive system that was used to destroying threats from a distance or one’s set up to fail. The only way they could remove the threat was by increasingly exposing themselves, and as the initial attempts failed, more and more of the Deep-State was revealed. Even after being ‘defeated’ by the machine electorally, he still poses a threat, revealing a deeper corruption few would have guessed at. He now is a movement, virtually immune to their institutional weapons deployed against him, which is why their efforts are become even more comically obvious.
Posted by: Milites | Aug 23 2023 8:50 utc | 222
Interesting Aftershock article: https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1280797
MILITARY COMMANDER MARAT KHAIRULLIN
Seems that Robotyne is observed by only a handful of RU troops. Ukraine keep sending more men in which are obliterated and then the area is then taken back repeatedly. This is already routine, and the main line of action is no longer the Zaporozhye front.
Same story in Urozhaine and Staramayorsk, there are no troops in those villages, yet AFU has still trouble entering them en-masse, while calling it “an assault” on the media.
RU current ongoing operation is
1. Encircle Belgorovka
2. Pin down AFU forces east of Oskol river with smallish attacks, that encourage them to hold their ground and/or send more reinforcements
3. Encircle AFU grouping east of the Oskol river by destroying all the bridges over the Oskol river with aviation, and cutting it off at the south and north end
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 8:50 utc | 223
@UWDude #207:
Daily? “Empirical fact”?
Pathetic hyperbole is all you got.
Ukrainian drones have indeed been attacking Moscow/Moscow Oblast daily for six days straight:
The Ministry of Defense says it has suppressed the attack of three drones on Moscow (RBK, Liliya Pashkova, August 23, 2023 — in Russian)
Two drones were shot down in Khimki and Mozhaysk districts, another one collided with a building in the Moscow International Business Center. There were no casualties, according to the Ministry of Defense. Drones are attacking Moscow for the sixth day in a row
Air defense and electronic warfare forces foiled an attempt to attack Moscow with three aircraft-type drones, the Ministry of Defense said.
“Two of the UAVs attacking the capital were destroyed by air defense systems in the air over the territory of the Mozhaysk and Khimki districts of Moscow Oblast. The third UAV was suppressed by means of electronic warfare and, having lost control, collided with a building being constructed in the Moscow International Business Center,” the ministry said.
There were no casualties, according to its data.
Earlier, the Mayor of the city Sergey Sobyanin reported the drone attack, but he indicated that there were two of them—the vehicle shot down in the Khimki district was not named.
According to TASS, the building in the International Business Center suffered minor damage. The Telegram channel Mash indicated that the One Tower tower was damaged, the total damaged area was 100 square meters. The glass is broken on the floors 11 to 14. The channel, as well as SHOT, reported that windows were shattered in buildings on Antonova-Ovseyenko Street near the skyscrapers. Sobyanin later confirmed that windows were damaged in two five-story buildings adjacent to the International Business Center.
Mash and Baza wrote that in Khimki, the wreckage of the drone fell in the Starbeyevo quarter, and a building was damaged there. Mash also reported that the sounds of explosions were heard in Krasnogorsk.
Amid the drone attack, Moscow airports have suspended inbound and outbound flights. After 4 AM, citing emergency services, TASS reported that the airports have resumed operation.
Over the past week, this is the sixth consecutive drone attack on the capital region and the largest in terms of the number of drones.
- On the night of August 18, fragments of a downed drone fell in the Expocentre area on Krasnopresnenskaya Embankment.
- On the afternoon of August 19, a downed drone fell in Krasnogorsk [a satellite city of Moscow and the seat of the Moscow Oblast Government — S], near the village of Putilkovo.
- On August 20, electronic warfare forces suppressed a drone in the Stupino district of Moscow Oblast.
- On the morning of August 21, two drones were destroyed in the Odintsovo and Istra districts of Moscow Oblast.
- On the night of August 22, air defense systems shot down two drones in the vicinity of Krasnogorsk and in the area of the village of Chastsy, Odintsovo urban district.
Prior to this, the Moscow International Business Center had become the target of drones several times. In particular, the towers in the IQ-quarter, where the Ministry of Digital Development, the Ministry of Economic Development and the Ministry of Industry and Trade are located, were attacked.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 8:54 utc | 224
Posted by: Comandante | Aug 22 2023 19:10 utc | 50
Spanish auto correction. Dude speaks spanish. You can tell a LOT from peoples posts these days.
Also note his last phrase ending in “… it makes us who we are”. Dude is so full of himself.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 23 2023 9:02 utc | 225
To all commenters asking for New Eastern Outlook, the new website is https://journal-neo.su Happy reading to all. Joyang
Posted by: Joyang | Aug 23 2023 9:08 utc | 226
Posted by: rk | Aug 23 2023 8:12 utc | 217
If the existing equipment and training of airbase security can’t handle the evolving threat it has to be upgraded or high value aircraft need to be accompanied by a specialist protection teams that can provide security where those aircraft operate from.
There’s always a new threat or innovation but some of these losses look too much like easy wins for Russia’s enemies and maybe even a little bit like taking the piss if one bothers to extrapolate out the particulars of each attack.
The more prominent excuse mongers appear to be knowing liars motivated by the prospect of real or imagined promotion. It is sadly ironic that papering over avoidable failures most often protects the inept from otherwise beneficial reform.
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 23 2023 9:11 utc | 227
Forbes:
When the powerful brigade finally rolled into action with some of its 14 British-made Challenger 2 tanks, 40 ex-German Marder tracked infantry fighting vehicles and 90 Stryker wheeled IFVs, it immediately began losing vehicles.
This week, the 82nd wrote off at least two of its 20 or so M1132 Engineer Squad Vehicles—mineclearing versions of its 18-ton, eight-wheel Stryker infantry-carriers. The M1132 features a set of hull-mounted minerollers that can detonate buried mines before the vehicle triggers them.
It’s unclear what struck the M1132s and whether the crews survived. It’s possible the vehicle were victims of the same mines their crews were trying to clear. It’s also possible they got caught in artillery barrages or were hunted down by drones. In any event, the 82nd already has lost 10 percent of its mineclearing Strykers.
The lead unit for the Robotyne assault, the Ukrainian army’s 47th Mechanized Brigade, by then had lost at least 25 of its 99 American-made M-2 tracked infantry fighting vehicles. The 82nd Brigade apparently joined the fight in order to bolster the flagging 47th.
It should come as no surprise that the two M1132s are the 82nd’s first confirmed losses. The brigade likely is sending M1132s ahead of its main assault columns in order to clear lanes through Russian minefields around Robotyne. With safe paths through the mines, the 82nd’s Strykers, Marders and Challenger 2s can push deeper into Robotyne, or bypass and cut off the city’s Russian garrison.
Here’s the good news. The United States has pledged 189 Strykers to Ukraine’s war effort—more than enough to replace the 82nd’s losses and equip additional brigades. And if those 189 Strykers run out, no problem: the U.S. Army has hundreds more Strykers in storage.
Zin Note: Good news, everyone! There’s plenty more scrap metal on the way! 🍾
#Article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/22/ukraines-powerful-82nd-brigade-has-a-serious-weakness-its-lightweight-mineclearing-vehicles/)
@Slavyangrad
Nato elite brigade, on the way to save the day!
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 9:15 utc | 228
Regarding Moscow Drone attacks.
It’s easy to see similarities here with the Japanese “balloon bombs” launched against the US in late WW2. Sent by the thousands, only small percentage made the voyage across the Pacific. They were packed only not with bombs, but biological weapons.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 9:28 utc | 229
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 9:15 utc | 228
Here’s the good news. The United States has pledged 189 Strykers to Ukraine’s war effort—more than enough to replace the 82nd’s losses and equip additional brigades. And if those 189 Strykers run out, no problem: the U.S. Army has hundreds more Strykers in storage.
shadowbanned: O’ calamity! calamity! hundreds of Strykers on the way! nay, thousands! Russia is doomed.
Even thousands of these vehicles do not amount to a single minefield.
The larger the number they send at any one time the harder to hide from eyes overhead.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 9:33 utc | 230
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 9:15 utc | 228
It’s seriously good news for the Russians if this child-like analysis is a reflection or replication of the thinking in the Nuland clan.r
‘Here’s the good news. The United States has pledged 189 Strykers to Ukraine’s war effort—more than enough to replace the 82nd’s losses’
1. Given the fact they only mentioned the loss of two specialised engineer Strykers, they are either:
a) lying about the actual number of Strykers lost so far
b) expecting the 82nd will lose most of the Strykers in their assault.
‘by then had lost at least 25 of its 99 American-made M-2 tracked infantry fighting vehicles’
a) no mention of replacement Bradley’s and a Stryker is not an equivalent platform
‘With safe paths through the mines, the 82nd’s Strykers, Marders and Challenger 2s can push deeper into Robotyne, or bypass and cut off the city’s Russian garrison.’
a) the sudden elevation of Robotyne to city status will probably be rescinded, now the Russians have counter-attacked and thrown the Ukrainians back.
Posted by: Milites | Aug 23 2023 9:37 utc | 231
I ask those more informed than me how it is possible that the Ukronazis have continued to bomb Donetsk with impunity for over 18 months.
Posted by: Alessandro Cagliostr | Aug 23 2023 9:45 utc | 232
So far, drone attack’s on Moscow don’t seem to be doing much, beyond some minor embarrassment to Russia and delay flights at the local airports.
Do these drones cross the line of contact with it’s GPS jamming and air defenses and fly towards Moscow? Or do they swing north thru Belarus (where the GPS jamming and the air defenses much less) then easterly towards Moscow?
Has anyone seen anything with drones of this type hitting other places in Russia? There appears to be drone usage of this type in Crimea, but anywhere outside of that?
There are reports of scattered explosions of things in Russia. But that is true of any country and nothing to do with drone attacks.
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 9:47 utc | 233
@218
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has released its first projections for traffic fatalities in 2023, estimating that 9,330 people died in traffic crashes in the first three months of the year.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 23 2023 9:56 utc | 234
Posted by: Milites | Aug 23 2023 9:37 utc | 231
RU has really stepped up their game in counter-battery war in Zaporozhye front. That means AFU won’t be exploiting even if they manage to capture Robotyne, or they won’t be advancing in the eastern flank or “encircling the (non-existent) RU garrison inside the city” anytime soon, either. Pretty soon the infantry will just be sitting in the forest lines with really nowhere to go or nothing to do, which constitutes the hold of territory.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 9:58 utc | 235
Independent Russian media outlets Meduza and Mediazona have used statistical modeling to estimate the number of Russian soldiers killed so far in Ukraine: around 47,000.
= 7833 / 3 months…
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 23 2023 9:59 utc | 236
NYT:
Troop Deaths and Injuries in Ukraine War Near 500,000, U.S. Officials Say
Ukraine and Russia have lost a staggering number of troops as Kyiv’s counteroffensive drags on. A lack of rapid medical care has added to the toll.
83000 /3 months …
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 23 2023 10:03 utc | 237
Prior to this, the Moscow International Business Center had become the target of drones several times. In particular, the towers in the IQ-quarter, where the Ministry of Digital Development, the Ministry of Economic Development and the Ministry of Industry and Trade are located, were attacked.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 8:54 utc | 224
If I was Putin I would send those drones myself since they hit the last part of Russian opinion possibly favorable to the Collective Waste.
BTW I read they originate from places close to Moscow itself…
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 23 2023 10:12 utc | 238
This morning, Dima says that Ukrainians failed with their attacks but they are still eager to fight and perform suicide attacks.
Furthermore, Ukraine is building the biggest military graveyard in the world.
But, the Ukrainian society is still very enthusiast about the war no matter their sons are dying.
Posted by: simplex | Aug 23 2023 10:19 utc | 239
Arch Bungle @ 230
Mud’s coming end of Strikers for a while, along with French AMX-10RC and all that other armored wheeled crap. Maybe Kiev can lease them out to GrubHub or DoorDash to make some income till next summer.
Forbes: When the powerful brigade finally rolled into action with some of its 14 British-made Challenger 2 tanks, 40 ex-German Marder tracked infantry fighting vehicles and 90 Stryker wheeled IFVs, it immediately began losing vehicles.
British Challengers, American Strikers… Ex-German Marders. MSM in lockstep, never break the narrative, “Nazi tanks? I see no Nazi tanks”
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 23 2023 10:26 utc | 240
Another fact is that Putin has an obligation to protect the lives of the citizens of the Russian Federation. But he is not even acknowledging that they are getting killed daily, let alone doing anything to stop it.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 6:57 utc | 205
So, let me get this right. Youre more concerned that putin is “doing nothing to stop” the killing of civilians by kiev terrorists than you are about kiev committing such atrocities?
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 10:26 utc | 241
Independent Russian media outlets Meduza and Mediazona
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Aug 23 2023 9:59 utc | 236
Correction: these two outlets are neither Independant nor Russian. Both are listed in Russia as foreign agents – they are not blocked, unlike, say, Southfront, but for the sake of full disclosure in their information they have to state their FA status, meaning they are being financed by foreign donors. Did they stated this fact in the info you read and forward here? Somehow I think they did not, ot your calling them “Independent Russian” was /sarc?
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 10:33 utc | 242
Posted by: Alessandro Cagliostr | Aug 23 2023 9:45 utc | 232
I ask those more informed than me how it is possible that the Ukronazis have continued to bomb Donetsk with impunity for over 18 months.
By one means and one means alone:
The military supply, training, guidance and political support of at least 30 European countries (NATO) and their non-western chattel states.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 10:34 utc | 243
South Ossetia and Abkhazia have announced their will to join RF. Meanwhile U$A is hosting a military drill in Georgia, next to the South Ossetian border.
Will Nato launch a renewed invasion of Ossetia?
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 10:36 utc | 244
Putin latest…sending a message to ukraine troops…
“The kiev regime has now become ‘casualty averse’ with regard to its soldiers”.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 10:38 utc | 245
Just a quick note about the current troll offensive. It is accurate to think of the huge troll influx to these fora in military terms: a coordinated “offensive”. This is because that is precisely what it is. The dis-United States and “You’re a’peein`s” do not have many billions of dollars in arms and munitions to give to the Ukraine. Without digging into the stocks of their own favorite toys, which the US leadership would not ever even consider giving to some ignorant backwards/backwoods canon fodder in some make-believe country, the West is pretty much out of disposable weapons to hand out.
What’s more, the US cannot send many “sheep dipped” troops either because ones worth sheep-dipping and sending covertly are in seriously short supply as well. Americans in the age brackets to potentially be warriors are almost entirely literally fat and stupid. Officers in the US military who directly supervise regular enlisted troops are today more like babysitters trying to keep their charges from drinking cleaning chemicals and sticking dining utensils into power outlets. The malaise of end-stage capitalism and death of empire runs through literally every aspect of western culture, and the military is not exempt.
But what the US can do is Marketing. It cannot do marketing very well anymore (witness the decline in America’s ‘soft power’ globally), but it doesn’t have to because the principal targets of that marketing are also mouth-breathing morons who are likewise vegetative victims of imperial decline too.
That is what our trolls are here: They are the grunts and lumpers of the marketing department for imperial policy. By all means ridicule and pummel them, but realize they are a large part, if not the largest part, of the empire’s desperate fight for survival right now. Keep that in mind while you beat them up. It’ll put a smile of satisfaction on your face.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 10:40 utc | 246
How to spot a zio-Natzo in the ukraine?
Read his Lips!
Let him speak and defend the WW2 Nazis.
It’s ok to drop the pretence after 90 years and state that it was all a plan back then as it is now!
“What lovely teeth and smart clothes these ww2 German Nazis had. It was stalins fault for not giving up the cities instantly- that’s not how war is supposed to be fought. They were supposed to surrender immediately and face their annihilation and balkanisation and hand over everything to us as is customary in history! “ He whinges and whines. The absolute bare headed clown.
‘Nazi glorification is mainstream in Ukraine? Nah, “it’s just Russian propaganda™”🤪
Ukrainian “influencer”, a jew, Dmitry Gordon on national TV explains that Nazis were “acting pretty decent” and it was USSR leadership who was responsible for so many deaths by not retreating and not surrendering cities’
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/30709
Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 23 2023 10:41 utc | 247
Lovedonbass 86
Please don’t use “my bad”, it gives a bad impression. Use mea culpa, it’s so much better. Thanks.
.
Posted by: Palinurus | Aug 23 2023 10:42 utc | 248
@norweger
The fact that there is no common norm for the Ukrainian language is a problem, but this is not a problem unique to Ukraine and it can be solved of they have the will to do so
this language thing dont have to be a problem: in switzerland all official text is written in real german, and the many verbal incompatibel swiss-german versions have no standards. if You want to writ it everything is allowed. a little bit anarchy in the democratic oligarchy…
Posted by: COViDiOT | Aug 23 2023 10:49 utc | 249
HERMIUS @245:
Putin latest…sending a message to ukraine troops…
“The kiev regime has now become ‘casualty averse’ with regard to its soldiers”.
And when did that happen? When did the Ukrainians start retrieving their casualties and dead from the battlefield instead of just leaving them there to expire and rot?
I would posit the change occurred at exactly the moment foreign forces started showing up in combat in significant numbers. The more NATO troops in actual combat, the more ‘casualty averse’ the Ukraine becomes. Even the Ukrainians don’t give half a shit if Ukrainians die. The dumb ones (that’s most Ukrainians these days) worship the West and view one western soldier as worth dozens of their own. Then of course there is the obvious scandal that would follow if large numbers of conspicuously non-Ukrainian corpses fertilizer started being recovered by the Russians in bulk quantities… can’t have that!
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 10:52 utc | 250
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 10:36 utc | 244
Will Nato launch a renewed invasion of Ossetia?
I remember binge watching the 2008 invasion. My take away was that the geography of the region will make invasion a nightmare on a scale NATO has never experienced before.
Well, if NATO does decide to invade I hope they do not remove the barrier in the Darial Gorge lest they release Yajuj and Majuj:
“Then he followed a road Till, when he came between the two mountains, he found upon their hither side a folk that scarce could understand a saying. They said: O Dhu’l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them?”
“He said: That wherein my Lord hath established me is better (than your tribute). Do but help me with strength (of men), I will set between you and them a bank (barrier). Give me pieces of iron – till, when he had levelled up (the gap) between the cliffs (The valley walls), he said: Blow! – till, when he had made it a fire, he said: Bring me molten copper to pour thereon. And (Gog and Magog) were not able to surmount, nor could they pierce (it). He said: This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord cometh to pass, He will lay it low, for the promise of my Lord is true.” (18:83-98)
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 10:57 utc | 251
@Lev Davidovich #218:
As stated every single day for months, your concern trolling to try and undermine perception of Russian leadership and strategy amongst influential readers at this bar is based on false data, exaggeration, demonstrably untrue assumptions made by you.
Are shadowbanned’s reports of the drone attacks on Moscow and Moscow Oblast “false data”? No. Are shadowbanned’s reports of these drone attacks an “exaggeration”? No. So who is the liar here?
It’s often magically accompanied by new posters appearing from nowhere who endorse your shite.
Except what you call “shite” are often just factually true statements. And the “new posters”—some of whom are not new at all—are simply defending these factually true statements from the shit-flinging of those who are unable to accept the truth.
And no, just because I defend shadowbanned when he/she is making factually true statements doesn’t mean I support his/her crazy proposals.
Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 11:01 utc | 252
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 10:52 utc | 250
I would posit the change occurred at exactly the moment foreign forces started showing up in combat in significant numbers. The more NATO troops in actual combat, the more ‘casualty averse’ the Ukraine becomes.
Great insight. One can predict we will see increasing signs of this casualty aversion as the weeks drag on until we see the culmination of NATO casualty aversion: Calls for Peace Talks.
Definitely a trend to watch …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 11:04 utc | 253
It’s interesting how no one complains about the average Ukrainian civilians kidnapped off the street to be send to certain deaths. Really puts their fake concerns about using prisoners in perspective.
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 23 2023 0:52 utc | 143
Not at all – just because the Nazis in Ukraine or the West do it doesn’t mean Russia has to copy it.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 4:16 utc | 184
And
Why is a prisoner soldier more valuable than a regular one? Are regular soldiers dying in war a moral failing, or just prisoner soldiers?
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 1:48 utc | 156
These are straw man arguments with very little thought, as it was very clear from the very beginning that prisoner soldiers were being used differently. Less human than regular soldiers.
Using straw man arguments to try and defend the indefensible is reaching the limits of common sense and values.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 23 2023 11:09 utc | 254
“Daddy George pulled strings with the Texas National Guard commander to get W into the Air NG. During ‘his’ service in the Japan campaign , he attempted a practice landing on a carrier in the Gulf. Almost nailed the stern, turned back to base, and went AWOL for a year. One of his few intelligent acts, as the F-102s were given to the ANG to get them the hell out of Viet Nam.”
George Bush the first was a military pilot in WW2 for one mission. He fucked up his landing on an air carrier, ended up in the ocean- his navigator was killed Bush survived, obviously, then they promptly put pinned a medal on him (his father, Prescott, in the meantime was the CEO of Brown Brothers whose company traded with the Nazis until stopped by Congress in August 1943)and retired the bum from further service.
Six days, six or seven drones destroyed in the moscow area.
Somehow “a half dozen drones were destroyed around Moscow last week” sounds so much less dire than ‘daily drone attacks on Moscow, while Putin does nothing!”
Shadowbanned is a fan of saying “while Putin does nothing”, or “and Putin doesn’t lift a finger”, or “and Putin doesnt even acknowledge the attacks”.
Should Putin start every morning, naming every inconsequential downing of a drone, or destruction of a hpuse on the front? Did Stalin be sure to mention every civilian hurt in WWIi?
Shadowbanned about creamed himself yesterday at the report of a smoke column in downtown Moscow yesterday. Unfortunately for him, ot was over in an hour, no damage done.
However, the day will come, where an attack somewhere, will kill Russians inside Russia, maybe Moscow or St Petersburg.
And when that days comes, Shadowbanned will be here strutting around, handing out a ton of “I told you so”s, and whistling all day, huge smile on his face all day and into the next. …because he cates about Russian lives so much
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 11:17 utc | 256
Just realized (I’m slow sometimes) something that follows on my post @250 above: Most American troops are Black (that is why Black Americans are programmed by mass media to have a culture of violence). How do Ukrainians cover for that?
Recall a few days ago there were rumors of the Ukraine sending some of their special forces Nazis to Africa? They can then claim some African countries sent their own troops to the Ukraine in exchange. It is not like anyone can tell the difference after they are dead, but the corpses’ skin color needs to be explainable, otherwise the pool of troops the US can covertly send is very limited indeed.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:18 utc | 257
…it was very clear from the very beginning that prisoner soldiers were being used differently. Less human than regular soldiers.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 23 2023 11:09 utc | 254
This is an outright lie.
Wagner soldiers NEVER differentiate among themselves who and how joined their team. Wagner PMC, of which _the former prisoners_ were but a small part, as a whole indeed was used differently, because they were different. And they seemed to be happy about it, for when they were offered to become “not different” I recall there was some disagreement about it.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 11:20 utc | 258
These are straw man arguments with very little thought, as it was very clear from the very beginning that prisoner soldiers were being used differently. Less human than regular soldiers.
Using straw man arguments to try and defend the indefensible is reaching the limits of common sense and values.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 23 2023 11:09 utc | 254
This is a dodge of genuine questions.
“Very clear from the very beginning”
Using the word “very” doesn’t make it so.
Go back to writing fifteen paragraph essays on economics nobody cares to read, please.
Posted by: UWDudew | Aug 23 2023 11:26 utc | 259
Most American troops are Black (that is why Black Americans are programmed by mass media to have a culture of violence).
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:18 utc | 257
Blacks are overrepresented in the us military, but still only about 17% of it.
As far as the black culture of violence, that is a complicated subject.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 11:29 utc | 260
May I suggest that people quoting numbers or recent facts provide a source? Decades ago we were taught not to believe a fact unless confirmed by two independent sources, but the trolls here seem to know everything and feel a desperate need to share their holy truths…, mostly in stupid ways, sometimes cunning and hypocritical. Why are there so many here today? Did they just finish a new correspondence course from London?
And as to the burning supersonic bomber: if there ever was a photoshopped picture! Far too much flames, and not even a fire brigade in sight.
Besides, who would have taken that picture and distributed it?
Note as well, Russia does not hide serious losses, only those directly on the battefront are a military secret, obviously, until the end of the SMO. There isn’t even a word on the plane on Sputnik.
Posted by: Anthony | Aug 23 2023 11:30 utc | 261
S @252 <-- LMAO!
100% guaranteed this is a presstitute whore for the Empire of Lies & Delusions! Maybe it (equally guaranteed to have funky pronouns so have to err on the side of caution) writes pap for the Washington Bezos Post? The New York Langley Times? It matters not, as it will soon be replaced with “generative AI” anyway.
But do note how the faggot presstitute for Empire fixates on the truthiness of individual “facts” while skipping past the lies of the narrative assembled from those scraps. Classic presstitute bullshit.
Then the whore for empire has to throw in the disclaimer! “It’s not my words! I’m just amplifying reporting them!
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:36 utc | 262
It is 2023 prisoners should be left in jail.
” We ” do it because the Nazi’s in Ukraine do it does not wash. A straw man arguement.
” We ” do it because of who we are and this is our values and very happy to treat prisoner soldiers as very different humans to everyone else. This is our culture.
Is exactly what ” we ” are saying by our actions.
All well and good – but then don’t go and throw the toys out of the pram and create straw man when the rest of the world judges you on it. You deserve to be judged by your actions otherwise how is everyone to know who you really are and what your culture is.
Then don’t complain if countries back off from BRICS Because you have been judged and many people don’t like Wagner and what they see.
Or complain that BRICS didn’t turn out the way you thought it would as some of those that did join it only wanted Wagner as a body guard.
Billions of people are waiting to see what BRICS looks like and it will be judged on many different value systems. The gold bugs think it is just about gold and free trade but that is delusional. It will be judged compared with neoliberalism.
China recognises this fully. Putin is playing catch up as he still plays in the conservative statist, ‘sound finance’ sand box.
The time will come when BRICS will be revealed and then judged. Many will support it and many won’t it will depend on your politics. It is a fact of life. It will be judged by people and measured by their own individual values.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 23 2023 11:37 utc | 263
So now there is an S-400 battery destroyed in Crimea. A 100 miles from the closes Ukrainian positions.
This after the dear western partners were allowed to scout everything they wanted for days.
Cue in the usual hopium junkies with the reassurances that this is no big deal. Just a pin prick bro. Meanwhile the steady degradation of important assets continues.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 11:38 utc | 264
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 11:38 utc | 264 “S-400 battery destroyed”
At least one TEL destroyed, maybe other stuff damaged.
Yeah, entire thing filmed by a drone…! Was the battery’s rader not on or not working?
Any chance it is fake?
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:40 utc | 265
Would someone hand Canon, ermm, I mean, shadowbanned a tissue? I think he needs to wipe up.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 23 2023 11:43 utc | 266
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 11:38 utc | 264
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:40 utc | 265
More possible details : Several drones drew fire from the battery (acting as decoys) at which point missiles where fired from the sea at the battery. Another drone which was not targete / spotted filmed the attack. The attack only hit an S-300 TEL of the battery (which might have been a mixed S-400 / S-300 battery?) and some other supporting equipment.
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:50 utc | 268
UWDude @260: “Blacks are overrepresented in the us military, but still only about 17% of it.”
I should have been more specific: Many of the most disposable American troops are Black… the actual canon fodder. The military has lots of clerks and techs, and people raised to be fighters are not suited for that kind of work.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:51 utc | 269
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 23 2023 11:37 utc | 263
It is 2023 prisoners should be left in jail.
Not really. Penitentiary system was set up for former criminals to prove that they can again be a part of the society. Does it also rub you the wrong way if there is a law that a peron can redeem himself by doing some communal duty or by paying damages? Same thing here – by law people were given their chance to redeem themseves and return to the society by serving this society, and they decided to take this chance.
” We ” do it because the Nazi’s in Ukraine do it does not wash. A straw man arguement.
Indeed, but this is YOUR straw man argument, neither Prigo nor RuMOD has never used this argument. The Prigo’s argument was “If you don’t like us hiring them, come fight yourself.”
Posted by: Poslan1 | Aug 23 2023 11:58 utc | 270
More possible details : Several drones drew fire from the battery (acting as decoys) at which point missiles where fired from the sea at the battery. Another drone which was not targete / spotted filmed the attack. The attack only hit an S-300 TEL of the battery (which might have been a mixed S-400 / S-300 battery?) and some other supporting equipment.
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:50 utc | 268
Yeah, now information appeared that it might have been an S-300. Regardless, this is extremely, extremely serious. These are strategic assets, not frontline AD.
What is the Kremlin going to do about this? It is completely inadmissible for this to be allowed to continue.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 12:04 utc | 271
@Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 11:50 utc | 268
Don’t look for too much logic, the Russian general staff is in 1600s artillery duels. Drone is a word Shoigu heard for the first time in 2022. Also, even if it’s an s400 launcher, it’s not a problem. Some local cretin commander placed it in a stupid way and as soon as nato satellites saw it it was dead. Also, as with Moscow drones, these are probably launched locally, not from distance. A a little sabotage for CNN/BBC news tonight. As you know, there’s a big party in Kiev with many foreigners invited these days.
From February 17, 2022 to August 21 2023 “2,954 NATO shells of 155 mm caliber (including 405 with a cluster head) and 16,495 MLRS missiles were fired in the region” – information and analytical department of the DPR
Posted by: rk | Aug 23 2023 12:08 utc | 272
Cue in the usual hopium junkies with the reassurances that this is no big deal. Just a pin prick bro. Meanwhile the steady degradation of important assets continues.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 11:38 utc | 264
You cant write a single sentence without putting amplifying adjectives in front of every other word like “steady” or “important” or “critical” to try te make your molehills seem mountainous, can you.
You know most of the incidents arent big deals, so you knowingly add those types of adjectives, thinking it will bolster your case, like this is a court of law or something.
Serious lawyer / PR vibes.
And you probably would consider that a compliment.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:15 utc | 273
Regardless, this is extremely, extremely serious. These are strategic assets, not frontline AD.
What is the Kremlin going to do about this? It is completely inadmissible for this to be allowed to continue.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 23 2023 12:04 utc | 271
LoL, now shadowbanned is going to start doubling and tripling his amplifying adjectives.
Ethtremely, ethtremely theriouth!
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:19 utc | 274
Looked up the SAM thing, Ukr/CW MSM have been spam claiming Russian SAM’s being knocked out for weeks.
Whist also regurgitating earlier successes. Meh, they’re trying to keep the propaganda cycle going.
I expect the Russians to show their displeasure, by matter-of-factly continuing the remorseless & disproportionate shredding of whole AFU brigades and their sheep-dipped NATO helpers. Plus the occasional hit on high-value targets when they mass together.
Could be wrong if this strike isn’t faked/regurgitated, they might hit one if Ukr/NATO much smaller number of SAM batteries…
Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 23 2023 12:24 utc | 275
What is the story on RUssian MI-8 that it is claimed to have flown in the wrong direction for a 100km or so and landed at a Ukrainian airfield?
1) did it just get lost? 2) Did (some) of the crew defect?
It is alleged to have been carrying aircraft parts for SU-27’s among other stuff.
Russian channels are saying it got lost. Ukraine appears to be going with the defected story.
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 12:29 utc | 276
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 22 2023 18:10 utc | 41.
>What so Russia can just replace America and act exactly like the West ? Is that it ? With the only difference being they bash metal instead of services ?
Sort of. In case you haven’t noticed, technology is advancing and worldwide 24 hour surveillance prison state is becoming increasingly likely. The best hope for everyone (even our leaders, if they only had the sense to see it) is to fragment the world into competing power blocks, so if life is too grim in one block, you can at least flee to another block. Monolithic world government might start out benign but it won’t stay benign forever. Much better not to allow monolith to ever form.
Also, thinking more short run, for those of us with citizenship and wealth tied up in the USA or its allies, our leaders are reckless and putting us in danger. The faster USA is humiliated by this war in Ukraine and any followup fight over Taiwan, faster we get more sensible leaders in USA and allies.
I don’t foolishly ask for decent, moral, good, blah, blah, blah leaders. I just want sensible leaders, meaning leaders who don’t put entire world on the path to nuclear Armageddon because of their crazy idealism. It’s precisely people who talk too much of decency, morality, goodness who are ultimately most dangerous, because idealism leads to detachment from reality. Selfish amoral people who focus exclusively on their personal survival and personal benefit tend to be more realistic, more cautious, and ultimately much less likely to start dangerous wars.
>Not for me. I want change wrapped up in Decency, values, Morales, standards, behaviours and rights and not as right wing. More shared and less selfish.
Might as well as for a pony while you’re at it. Wrapped up in pretty paper and a ribbon.
>I’m pretty sure I am not the only one.
Of course you’re not the only one. World is full of weak-minded sheeple. This forum also full of them (bevin, etc). Probably only way society can function. There have to be ordinary people, especially women, who feel sorry for suffering children and whatnot, just like there have to be cold-blooded psychopathic leaders who won’t hesitate to order the deaths of millions in order to save hundreds of millions. Parable of sheep, sheep dogs and wolves.
Posted by: Revelo | Aug 23 2023 12:34 utc | 277
@ Ed4 | Aug 23 2023 12:29 utc | 276
Or maybe the crew had cut a deal to sell the SU-27 parts to Banderastan?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 23 2023 12:34 utc | 278
Or maybe the crew had cut a deal to sell the SU-27 parts to Banderastan?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 23 2023 12:34 utc | 278
Speculating on a rumor, (the chopper was carrying Su 27 parts) about a rumor (an mi-8 chopper flying 100 km into Ukraine unmolested)
Is the point of the rumor.
Sounds like just a pointless rumor to me.
Posted by: UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:39 utc | 279
Posted by: Revelo | Aug 23 2023 12:34 utc | 277
you think Biden inc is “idealistic”? wtf. the cold blooded psychopathic leaders you pine for are exemplified by Victoria Nuland. newwflash, pscychopaths are cold blooded but they don’t give a cold f about saving hundreds of millions. no doubt they would argue they are being “realists” and you are a week minded idealist.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 12:40 utc | 280
@ UWDude | Aug 23 2023 12:39 utc | 279
You do have a point there. 🙂
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 23 2023 12:44 utc | 281
Talking about equipment degradation.
The amount of M-119 howitzers in clobber list in Zaporozhye keeps taking a larger share from M-777. That’s US equipment degradation in play. M-119 is shorter range and less effective, which also means less capabilities to do counter battery actions.
According to Military summary, RU took artillery superiority in Kupyansk front, and most likely they also have it in Zaporozhye line as well.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 12:47 utc | 282
I ask those more informed than me how it is possible that the Ukronazis have continued to bomb Donetsk with impunity for over 18 months.
Posted by: Alessandro Cagliostr | Aug 23 2023 9:45 utc | 232
You have the wrong word. Ukraine has been shelling Donetsk from territory they still held. Air defenses have been good enough that there has been almost no bombing on either side. An exception to that is the recent use of glide bombs by Russia.
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 23 2023 12:58 utc | 283
RE: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 23 2023 9:33 utc | 230
Adding to your “Stryker” comment, from what I understand, they are completely useless in mud. So, promising hundreds, thousands at this time of the year, is more jawing.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 13:01 utc | 284
I have been asking myself
Would the russian popular opinion grow more war-weary if there were or were not any incidents directly targeting the motherland?
Are the occasional attacks strengthening the resolve of the population or do they make the public more inclined to beg for Russia making concessions to the enemy?
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 23 2023 13:03 utc | 285
I should have been more specific: Many of the most disposable American troops are Black… the actual canon fodder.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 11:51 utc | 269
I don’t know what the black-white causality ratio is, but it is disconnected from reality to suppose that any of our troops have been used as “canon fodder.” In the last few decades the United States has been so causality adverse that one wonders if we could even fight a war where their where significant troop losses.
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 23 2023 13:03 utc | 286
This Mi-8 incident (if it is true) brings to mind the incident last year.
SBU intelligence tried to recruit RU pilots to land their planes in an AFU airbase. So RU intelligence told the pilots to play along until they learned the coordinates where they were supposed to land. After that they managed to discover the airbase, and instead of the pilots landing with their planes, Kalibr missiles landed on the base and took out several AFU aircraft.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 23 2023 13:07 utc | 287
Jmaas@286….the cannon fodder comes from a draft and green card wannabees…..350 million people, pretty sure that will not be a problem.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 23 2023 13:10 utc | 288
RE: Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 10:52 utc | 250
“I would posit the change occurred at exactly the moment foreign forces started showing up in combat in significant numbers. The more NATO troops in actual combat, the more ‘casualty averse’ the Ukraine becomes.”
I think you’re onto something there. I read that the 28th division was all NATO troops now.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 13:15 utc | 289
petergrfstrm | Aug 23 2023 13:03 utc | 285
Except for the Atomic Bombs dropped on Japan, I don’t think any target nation has been bombed into submission.
I could be wrong but I think that bombing tends to make the targets even more determined and are counterproductive except insofar as it makes life very difficult for those being bombed.
I also think Nixon was wrong when he said “if you’ve got them by the balls , their hearts and minds will follow”. I reckon this attitude is totally counterproductive and is one of the reasons why the Global South hasn’t fallen into line with the fantasies of the US and Western lunatics. The rest of the world is thoroughly sick of that shit.
Posted by: ZimZum | Aug 23 2023 13:24 utc | 290
@232 allessandro
Re: bombing donetsk for 18 months.
First understand nato, which arms and funds the entire Ukrainian army and government, out masses russia 10 to 1 or more.
Therefore russia must conserve all military resources. Donetsk serves as the main supply hub and a vast urban fortress, impenetrable to a massed attack, at least with conceivable weaponry.
By staying in donetsk and making it the front russia can fight on the cheap and force nato put into a thousand mile supply line into this well supplied fortress.
Ukraine for its part is forced to fire into the urban conglomerate to attack russian forces embedded in there.
The cost to force a buffer zone would be high, and leaving the protection of donetsk would increase attrition, maybe enough to lose the war given nato vastly larger size.
It’s a military decision not a movie plot. War needs practical men to make life and death decisions so this is what needs to happen
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 23 2023 13:25 utc | 291
Jmaas @286
It is not the actual loss of troops that Americans have a problem with. Americans happily tolerate carnage on their city streets every day. It is the appearance of weakness that comes from having lost troops that Americans have an intense aversion to. If the losses arise from covert actions, Americans will then have two distinct reasons to pretend it didn’t happen: duty to nation to maintain state secrets in wartime, and the old American tradition of refusing to admit they lost.
Honestly, go visit Twatter X and look at any thread filled with NAzi FaggOt trolls and try to imagine how they would respond if the Russians started releasing pictures and videos of dead NATO troops with their passports stapled to the remains of their craniums. Instant denial. They’d simply amp up the disbelief.
As for families of the dead in America? They will take their fifty thousand in hush money, buy an SUV with it, put an “In memory of DeShawn, 2001 – 2023” sticker on the back window, and that will be the end of the matter.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 13:26 utc | 292
Jmaas@286….the cannon fodder comes from a draft and green card wannabees…..350 million people, pretty sure that will not be a problem.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 23 2023 13:10 utc | 288
I don’t doubt that our government would be willing to get a lot of troops killed in the right circumstance, but that is not our current situation, and hasn’t been for a while. We get all upset about Mogadishu where our death losses were 18. Meanwhile in Ukraine the combat death losses for non Americans are often rounded out to the nearest 1000. If the current attitude holds we couldn’t even fight a small scale war.
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 23 2023 13:29 utc | 293
“Ukraine… is forced to fire into the urban conglomerate to attack russian forces embedded in there.”
Flipping reality on its head is how you know beyond doubt this poster is 100% paid troll. It is the Ukrainian Nazis that the faggot trolls worship who locate their firing positions in the courtyards of hospitals and bunk their troops in kindergartens and shopping malls, not the Russians.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2023 13:37 utc | 294
The kievite force allegedly destroyed launchers of S-400 Triumf in Crimea.
Posted by: Août | Aug 23 2023 13:39 utc | 295
Putin latest…sending a message to ukraine troops…
“The kiev regime has now become ‘casualty averse’ with regard to its soldiers”.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 23 2023 10:38 utc | 245
Alex Christoforou talked about this yesterday, except that the statement came from either the US media or someone in the MIC. Apparently some Ukrainian commanders are seeing the futility of throwing more of their meat straight into the grinder, essentially in suicide attacks on Russian positions, and are trying other approaches. Or possibly someone in Kiev has actually worked through some statistics and saw where all this leads. Being risk averse is something the US leadership sees as another flaw in the Ukrainian character, as it has no shits to give regarding other nation’s sacrifices. Don’t know how this came to be attributed to Putin, maybe he was repeating what the West said.
Posted by: Mike R | Aug 23 2023 13:39 utc | 296
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 23 2023 12:40 utc | 280
>you think Biden inc is “idealistic”? wtf. the cold blooded psychopathic leaders you pine for are exemplified by Victoria Nuland. newwflash, pscychopaths are cold blooded but they don’t give a cold f about saving hundreds of millions. no doubt they would argue they are being “realists” and you are a week minded idealist.
Almost all powerful leaders are psychopaths. Putin and his inner circle certainly are. As well as Biden and Nuland and Trump, etc. And Xi Jinoing. Sorry to burst your bubble if you thought some powerful countries were run by nice guys who really care about the lives of ordinary people.
Realists have the usual motivations of our primate relatives, especially the hyper-violent chimpanzees: to be the alpha, enjoy the exercise of power, be secure in the position of high status. Realist leaders will stomp on weaklings and start wars they can win, but they avoid fights with near equal or larger opponents.
Idealism is unique to humans and part of our higher spiritual nature, which is our glory and our downfall. Our glory because it makes possible things like art, literature, science, philosophy and other ways we humans rise above biology. Our downfall because it allows us to become detached from biological reality and do things that a chimpanzee would never do. A chimpanzee does not commit suicide because he read The sorrows of Young Werther and became deeply depressed about the universe. A chimpanzee does not start a dangerous war and risk his comfortable position as head of one chimp tribe to unite all chimps of the world into a single chimp empire just so the chimp history books will applaud him as the greatest chimp ever.
Putin is acting to save his own hide, because the deep state behind him would kill him if he didn’t act because they want to save their hides, because they know the USA means harm to Russia. Reality all the way down.
USA leaders were not trying to save their own hides when they started provoking Russia long ago during the period of USA worldwide dominance 1991-2008 or thereabouts. Rather, they were motivated by some grand idealistic unREALISTIC plan to maintain world dominance forever. Realists like Kennan, Kissinger, Brezhinsky in his old age, Mearsheimer, etc all warned against this plan as unrealistic, but then idealists don’t care about reality.
Posted by: Revelo | Aug 23 2023 13:47 utc | 297
RE: Posted by: S | Aug 23 2023 11:01 utc | 252
“are simply defending these factually true statements from the shit-flinging of those who are unable to accept the truth.”
I’m not seeing (for the most part) people responding to “fact based truth” i.e. “drone hit Moscow business district, smoke billows”… posters are responding to “opinion” of what could/would/should be done.
For myself, I see 3-4 different wars going on. You have the Ukraine, man-on-man-, tank-on-tank, drone-on-drone.
Hitting of military targets– basic UN Charter/UN Humanitarian guideline (being applied for the most part by one side) but UN sanctioned “war methods” per se.
Then you have the separate current desperate “terror” attacks. These seem to be a concerted effort to disrupt and interrupt the business sector, the US/EU is VERY upset their “sanctions from hell” have only made Russia people stronger, and are vengeance attacks. And make no mistake, these are being directly organized by cells planted by US/UK. Not Ukraine origination per se.
Anyways, an entirely different kind of response and warfare has to be and is being initiated to defend/respond.
These are full on chicken sh*t moves like we see in Israel/Palestine/Lebanon/Syria… just weasel hit and run crap. When looking at those nations with decades of this weasel “war-terror” crap, then you know, “leveling Ukraine”, isn’t going to change any of that. And “sending a message” is being done, both openly and covertly. Russians are hardly the “cowering” type. These “terror” attacks could go on and off for decades.
It’s the price you pay for not being “West acceptable”.
And with or without Ukraine “SMO”… they are their to “terrorize Russians, and disrupt/destroy “businesses”…(including recent civilian airport “terror threats”- think “Syria”)
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 23 2023 13:51 utc | 298
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 23 2023 13:25 utc | 291
Ukraine has been lobbing shells into Donetsk city since 2014. The shelling is not on military targets but civilians. I don’t doubt that there are Russian troops stationed around the city, or that it is a transportation hub, but have seen no evidence that Ukraine targets anything of military value. Lobbing shells at bus stops and churches is a terrorist operation, something the Ukronazis excel at.
Posted by: Mike R | Aug 23 2023 13:51 utc | 299