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August 20, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-197
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Just watched video feed of the Drone Exhibition hit ….holy fuck Batman, the God damn thing came in at street level, like skimming the road and in through the front door….er, tradesmen entrance…… Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2023 12:59 utc | 1 So, from the last two days: Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 13:03 utc | 2 Looks like Russia has started some mobilization in the Northern most area of the zero line towards Kupianask. Posted by: young | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 3 @ 13:03 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 4 I saw a video a while ago of Graham Phillips interviewing a young Russian woman. She had gone with him to the Donbass as a translator and had seen what it was like there. Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 20 2023 13:21 utc | 5 The video is no longer up. I’d be very grateful for a link to it, if anyone in “b”‘s comment section knows if it was stored anywhere. Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 13:25 utc | 6 Grasping at straws, aren’t we? But then, I guess the fans of Banderastan will take whatever meager victories they can get. Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 13:29 utc | 7 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 4 Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 13:31 utc | 8 Soon will be too late for any kind of russian “offensive”. Tiny Avdeevka, basicaly suburb of Donetzk is still shelling huge russian city… almost 10 Years of such activity. What are the objectives of SMO? Nobody knows when RU leadership is not able to make RU people safe. Posted by: smartboy | Aug 20 2023 13:33 utc | 9 From the Automatic Earth’s Debt Rattle… Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Aug 20 2023 13:34 utc | 10 @ 2 shadowboob Posted by: AleaJactaEst | Aug 20 2023 13:39 utc | 11 Anyone else having difficulty – impossible now – accessing SOUTHFRONT yesterday. No problem at all till yesterday? Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Aug 20 2023 13:50 utc | 12
Compared to nearly a thousand Banderastani troop losses every day? Yup, pinpricks and straws. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:54 utc | 13 You can almost smell the anger seething through various MSM articles and reports, which are filled with emotions and little objectivity. Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:05 utc | 14 @2 shadowbanned Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 14:10 utc | 15 The “rains” and mud and such, make “warring” difficult. However, Russia has many times traversed and executed offensives on ice and snow. All that forestry will lay bare, as well as river freezes ect., makes for excellent conditions of offensive. Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 20 2023 14:11 utc | 16 Anyone else having difficulty – impossible now – accessing SOUTHFRONT yesterday. No problem at all till yesterday? Posted by: Zet | Aug 20 2023 14:12 utc | 17 @12 I could tell you but since it’s been asked and answered so much I’m going to tell you to read the previous ukraine thread. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 14:13 utc | 18 For those that expect a Russia offensive, Why? What actions has Putin shown that he has the strength to launch an offensive. The longer he waits the more time he gives West to come up with answers for Ukraine. From the pro-Russian camp all I hear is Putin will do in Fall, no winter, no really Spring, no wait it will be at their choosing…..and all the time more attacks on Russia, civilians and military deaths. Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:05 utc | 14 “They are also successful in unifying the Global South, no small feat.” Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:30 utc | 20 Russian Offensive? Posted by: young | Aug 20 2023 14:33 utc | 21 My, how they’re out in force today (when they could be on the front lines…but for which side? hmm…)
“Pinpricks” refers to the style of attack, not to the victims. But you knew that. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 14:34 utc | 22 Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2023 12:59 utc | 1 Posted by: madmarc | Aug 20 2023 14:42 utc | 23
On the surface this seems so. The complicating problem here though is it was not a “historically normal” election due to the Covid19 restrictions in place and especially because of the doubling of ‘reported’ mail-in votes increasing to 65 million Votes or 42% of the total votes cast in 2020. Some states mail-in votes were in the high 80 percent range – New Jersey and DC for example. Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 20 2023 14:43 utc | 24 Well I guess we now know what the current spin is….”Russia is weak because they wont do a BigArrow offensive” & “Russia is weak ‘cause they cannot keep the population 100% safe from Ukrainian attacks” Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 20 2023 14:44 utc | 25 NATO needs only UA territory to harm Russia, population is irrelevant. After disposing all ukies, they will bring cheap mercs from 3rd world and show will continue. Posted by: smartboy | Aug 20 2023 14:46 utc | 26 Well lookin-here! SmartPloy shows up just in time to demonstrate my point…. Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 20 2023 14:48 utc | 27 We heard about the “coming Ukrainian offensive” for months before it finally materialized in June. Now there is speculation about an impending Russian move. With such things we will know with certainty only after actual movements have begun. Specific predictions in this war have not generally been borne out. In the Ukrainian case their eventual move was a certainty if their campaign was to remain viable. For the Russian side this is not the case, although the build up of forces and material suggests some objective beyond the current status quo. Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 20 2023 14:48 utc | 28 Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19 Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 14:49 utc | 29 Lavrov’s Dog@24 Posted by: bevin | Aug 20 2023 14:53 utc | 30 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:05 utc | 14 “They are also successful in unifying the Global South, no small feat.” Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:53 utc | 31 Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 14:49 utc | 29 “it would have the RoW supporting it and that it would start a dedollarisation phase.” Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:57 utc | 32 The callous disregarded for the dead by some posters today, is sickening. It doesn’t matter who they are, they are fellow humans forced in to a situation they do not want any part of. Oh sure they can surrender, and be shot in the back or they can charge forward and be shot in the front….and the Russians still refuse to target the top command and control centres, the leaders that keep the game, and fucking game it is, going. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2023 14:59 utc | 33 @ 13:13|malenkov| 4 Posted by: CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34 @ Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 20 2023 14:43 utc | 24 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:01 utc | 35 I don’t think it’s a “low-level” conflict. More of a medium level conflict but I don’t know of any objective measurements for one versus the other. Anyone know of any? Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 20 2023 15:03 utc | 36 https://t.me/ukraine_watch/7270
https://t.me/ukraine_watch/7316
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/08/19/7416246/
1. Freezing the conflict isn’t compatible with any of the stated SMO goals, Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 20 2023 15:04 utc | 37 @ CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:05 utc | 38 Putin and Medvedev are pursuing a policy of eliminating the Ukrainian military and any NATO folks foolish enough to be fighting with it…While simultaneously exhausting NATO’s weapon stockpile, and furthering Russia’s political aims with the Global South…Many folks, including some luminaries like Paul Craig Roberts, have difficulty understanding this strategy, but that’s their problem…. Posted by: pyrrhus | Aug 20 2023 15:06 utc | 39 @ pyrrhus | Aug 20 2023 15:06 utc | 39 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:10 utc | 40 LOL as soon as the big winterspringsummeranytimenow counter offensive fails we get a major influx NAFO trolls trying to flip the script. It’s funny really. Right on cue. Clearly some are even meagerly paid, too. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 20 2023 15:13 utc | 41 Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:57 utc | 32 Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:15 utc | 42 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:53 utc | 31 “Counting countires” Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:15 utc | 43 Posted by: CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34 Posted by: Lemming | Aug 20 2023 15:16 utc | 44 If the losses make you anxious, I don’t think war is your thing. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 15:20 utc | 45 Russia needs strong leader that isn’t closest Atlantisist and is committed to finishing this once and for all. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 15:22 utc | 46 Wondrous writes:
I doubt Russia expected much overt support from the community of nations, and with good reason: All states have borders they regard as inviolable — well, okay, except for Israel, which keeps expanding — and insist on their right to hold on to territories even regardless of the will of the affected people. To say that Russia’s SMO is justified is to admit the possibility that one’s own borders can be questioned. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:29 utc | 47 Another SMO failed! Posted by: tesla | Aug 20 2023 15:30 utc | 48 @ Charles M 19 Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 49 @5 English Outsider Posted by: BG13 | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 50 Ed4, who loves numbers, writes: “17 African countries showed at the 2023 St. Petersburg Russia-Africa summit” — although the real number was 42. It’s just that several states were not represented by heads of state or government but by other high-level ministers. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:32 utc | 51
butbutbut … shadowbanned assures us that Putin is nowhere to be seen! A subtle way of hinting, as NAFO and CIPSO types will, that he’s cowering in a bunker somewhere. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:36 utc | 52
Ursula VDL and other intellectuals of her cabinet have been letting out noises about “war economy”. But judging by her direct competencies in micromanagement of EUropean industries so far, we probably need not worry. EU also can’t do much without declaring some sort of semi state of martial law. Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 15:38 utc | 53 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:32 utc | 51 “several states were not represented by heads of state or government but by other high-level ministers.” Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:39 utc | 54
Not hard to figure out. They were threatened to not show their face in the conference by Evil Vicky, or else… because that’s how they roll. Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 15:42 utc | 55 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:29 utc | 47 Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:43 utc | 56 Re: Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 20 2023 15:44 utc | 57 @ Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:43 utc | 56 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:46 utc | 58 Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 15:38 utc | 53 Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:51 utc | 59 Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 49 “Russia need not worry about Ukraine getting lots of war material.” Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:52 utc | 60 17 African countries showed at the 2023 St. Petersburg Russia-Africa summit Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 20 2023 15:52 utc | 61 Well I guess we now know what the current spin is….”Russia is weak because they wont do a BigArrow offensive” & “Russia is weak ‘cause they cannot keep the population 100% safe from Ukrainian attacks” Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 20 2023 15:53 utc | 62 The commander in chief has spoken, reality will hit the West hard and soon. Posted by: AI | Aug 20 2023 15:55 utc | 63 @pyrrhus | Aug 20 2023 15:06 utc | 39
Yes, and in a war of attrition you want to have the logistics on your side. The supply lines of “the west” are very much longer than Russias. Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 20 2023 16:01 utc | 64 @ sean the leprechaun 33 Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 16:02 utc | 65 Isn’t that usually considered a diplomatic snub of sorts as Putin (President of Russia, head of state) was hosting? Compared to the number of heads of state or government that attended the prior one? Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:03 utc | 66 Shadowbore’s motorcycle out-riders for today’s shift of “anything less than a nuclear launch is weak / treason / corrupt” Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 67 @ malenkov 13. Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 68 @lovedonbass Posted by: Charles M. | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 69 http://avia.pro/news/10-tysyach-polskih-voennosluzhashchih-pogibli-na-ukraine-za-poltora-goda Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 13:03 utc | 2
Whose myths are you gathering and basing your screed on? Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 20 2023 16:09 utc | 71 Posted by: BG13 | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 50 Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 20 2023 16:10 utc | 72 @ BG13 50 Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 16:11 utc | 73 I’d rather be made President of US and try to turn ourselves around before trying another country. Besides, my Russian is horrible but my wife makes awesome Borsht soup which would please visitors to the Kremlin. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:13 utc | 74 German chancellor Olaf Scholz calls protesters, who are calling for peace talks, “fallen angels straight from hell”: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HrRT06KWKrE?feature=share Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 20 2023 16:14 utc | 75 English outsider-here is Graham Phillips email I’m sure he will provide the interview for you-gwplondon@gmail.com Low? Medium level conflict? WTF? There are hundreds of thousands dead. Many times that number maimed. Some of you people call this low level? All I can say is some posters here must have a difficult time walking. If you get my meaning. Posted by: Golddigger | Aug 20 2023 16:17 utc | 77 JDT@73 Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 20 2023 16:19 utc | 78 Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:51 utc | 59 Posted by: hopehely | Aug 20 2023 16:20 utc | 79 Yesterday there was a comment based on Telegram that even mainstream media in US like NYT now admit Ukraine lost 500 000 KIA in this war. Telegram source says this. Looking at NYT, it is claimed the number is the total loss of life in this conflict with russia having main losses. Posted by: Johnny | Aug 20 2023 16:21 utc | 80 Posted by: Catilina | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 70 Posted by: On the roof | Aug 20 2023 16:23 utc | 81 @ Catilina | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 70 Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 20 2023 16:27 utc | 82 The “dedollarisation” takes place already. Kaddafi and Saddam Hussein paid with their lives trying to trade in different ways than using dollar. Today this is being the “new” normal. Almost. Some large countries conduct trade without the mighty dollar, especially being the “petro” one. Posted by: LogosApplied | Aug 20 2023 16:31 utc | 83 Posted by: On the roof | Aug 20 2023 16:23 utc | 81
Would be interesting to add to that the wounded if we new the ratio. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 20 2023 16:31 utc | 84
At the “V-weapons stage” the Nazis were firmly on the backfoot and retreating everywhere, with a multimillion-men Red Army rolling them up across the continent. Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:33 utc | 85
Yes, no big-arrow moves while your big cities and strategic assets are attacked daily indeed indicates weakness. Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:35 utc | 86 s Africa closer to the West today than it was before the SMO? Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 20 2023 16:35 utc | 87
Yes, the enemy is coming at you. So far all the way to Novgorod, Saratov and beyond Moscow. Soon in Siberia too… Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:41 utc | 88 But I never read, so far, how big losses for USA are associated with the present level of dollar dropping? Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:42 utc | 89
It isn’t even $40M, it’s effectively priceless. Nobody is making these anymore, not will be for another several years even if Putin orders it. Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:42 utc | 90 Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19
Thank you for your ‘concern’. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 20 2023 16:44 utc | 91 This war isn’t about Ukraine winning, it’s about Russia losing. The West will continue to send just enough to ensure a stalemate, which results in Russia’s slow destruction. Which is going fairly well. Posted by: Pieter | Aug 20 2023 16:44 utc | 92 Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 67 Posted by: tesla | Aug 20 2023 16:47 utc | 93 tesla | Aug 20 2023 15:30 utc | 48 Posted by: Cynic | Aug 20 2023 16:47 utc | 94 So you’re admitting Ukrainian lives are worthless and expendable to the West. Good argument. Posted by: Martian Surface | Aug 20 2023 16:48 utc | 95 @53 unimperator Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 16:48 utc | 96 @ Charles M. | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 69 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 16:49 utc | 97 Do you see the current Nazis being rolled up across the continent? I don’t. All I see is Russians getting killed, on both sides, and now inside Russia too. In fact, aside from Kuypansk, the war is entirely inside Russia right now… Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 16:49 utc | 98 Ukrainian lives aren’t worthless, EVERY human life has value. But in the context of geopolitics, yes absolutely. Given that Ukraine is not part of NATO, the EU, or even allied in any other way with the west, we really aren’t valuing their lives. Posted by: Pieter | Aug 20 2023 16:52 utc | 99 It isn’t even $40M, it’s effectively priceless. Nobody is making these anymore, not will be for another several years even if Putin orders it. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:52 utc | 100 |
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