Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 20, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-197

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

Just watched video feed of the Drone Exhibition hit ….holy fuck Batman, the God damn thing came in at street level, like skimming the road and in through the front door….er, tradesmen entrance……
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2023 12:59 utc | 1

So, from the last two days:
— Minus one Tu-22M3 deep inside Russian territory
— Yet another daily drone attack on Moscow
— the train station in Kursk hit by a drone, five injured
— Rostov attacked with drones
— Massive attack with 12 drones against Belgorod. Supposedly repelled, but the thick smoke plume suggests something more than a drone is burning
— Cluster munitions stuck in trees killed several people in Donetsk
— the regular terror shelling of cross border areas we don’t even talk about
— F-16s are coming soon
— So are Taurus missiles.
On the other side RU hit a drone convention in Chernigov, which is great, but that’s not going to win the war.
How long is this going to continue?
Meanwhile Putin is nowhere to be seen, nor is anything done to stop all this. The mythical Russian offensive is just that — a myth — and it will take another at least a million mobilized to fully neutralize Ukraine anyone. But it will only get worse from here on a much shorter time scale than any of that can be done (provided leadership decides to stop living in its own alternative reality, of course).

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 13:03 utc | 2

Looks like Russia has started some mobilization in the Northern most area of the zero line towards Kupianask.
This could be the beginning of the BIG Russian offensive some have been anticipating.
If the Russians stop and don’t go anywhere for sometime with their recent drive towards Kupiansk, that would be par for the course for Russia.
Another week or two will determine if this is the real thing or just another positional adjustment.

Posted by: young | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 3

@ 13:03
Wow, a bunch of pinpricks and hypotheticals versus a precision strike that sent dozens of NATO guys to Bandera…and as if that’s all Russia accomplished in the past several days.
Grasping at straws, aren’t we? But then, I guess the fans of Banderastan will take whatever meager victories they can get.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 4

I saw a video a while ago of Graham Phillips interviewing a young Russian woman. She had gone with him to the Donbass as a translator and had seen what it was like there.
She had been ashamed of what her government was doing in the Donbass. But wasn’t when she found out the true position. I think she might have expected to find a cowed or sullen people under Russian occupation. Instead she found Z’s all over the place and people as Russian as herself. And quite determined to stay that way.
It was a powerful video. I submitted a link to an English site and a commenter wrote in about it. I don’t think he’d understood the position in the Donbass until then. Few do. They think of the Donbass as a region loyal to Kiev but forced to endure conquest and awaiting liberation. That is how it is uniformly portrayed in the media.
The video is no longer up. I’d be very grateful for a link to it, if anyone in “b”‘s comment section knows if it was stored anywhere.

Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 20 2023 13:21 utc | 5

The video is no longer up. I’d be very grateful for a link to it, if anyone in “b”‘s comment section knows if it was stored anywhere.
Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 20 2023 13:21 utc | 5
I remember this video too. It was a good one.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 13:25 utc | 6

Grasping at straws, aren’t we? But then, I guess the fans of Banderastan will take whatever meager victories they can get.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 4
Now, murdered Russian civilians and attacks deep inside Russian territory are but pinpricks and straws.
Funny, that.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 13:29 utc | 7

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:18 utc | 4
Don’t know if anyone’s noticed this pattern… the harder Nato is losing, the more and even more ludicrous propaganda they start spewing that it’s actually the other way around. It’s been the same every time.
Catastrophic attacks on Snake Island -> story about the RU warship and “F-U”
Bakhmut grinder ended -> look, over here, RU freedom volunteer corps invading 50km into Belgorod region and taking over nuclear facilities. All buried after some weeks
-Catastrophic first weeks of counter-offensive in Orekhov sector -> look, ZNPP sabotage stories
-More catastrophic attacks on Orekhov – Vremievka sectors -> dam collapsing, look, RU did it to prevent AFU attacks (now they are freely walking across the dry river bed)
You can almost smell the anger seething through various MSM articles and reports, which are filled with emotions and little objectivity.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 13:31 utc | 8

Soon will be too late for any kind of russian “offensive”. Tiny Avdeevka, basicaly suburb of Donetzk is still shelling huge russian city… almost 10 Years of such activity. What are the objectives of SMO? Nobody knows when RU leadership is not able to make RU people safe.

Posted by: smartboy | Aug 20 2023 13:33 utc | 9

From the Automatic Earth’s Debt Rattle…
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2023/08/debt-rattle-august-20-2023/
But there is a significant difference. In the case of Ukraine, we are dealing with a regime that is pursuing a murderous policy towards the territory under its control. African leaders, on the other hand, are not at all willing to take risks for the interests of France and the United States.
Therefore, what was a tragedy in Ukraine may turn out to be a farce in West Africa,
The savviness with which the coup leaders in Niamey are acting takes the breath away. General Abdourahmane Tchiani, the titular head of the coup, refused to meet Nuland. She and other US officials asked to see Bazoum in person when they visited Niger on Monday, but the answer was no. Even with a hefty $200 million of annual US aid at stake, the Nigerien generals weren’t interested in Nuland’s offer.
Instead, she had to sit across the table and negotiate with the commander of Niger’s Special Operations Forces and one of the leaders of the coup, Brig. Gen. Moussa Salaou Barmou, who serves as chief of defense. Barmou attended the US National Defense University and was trained at Fort Benning in Georgia. Yet, he was handpicked to threaten Nuland that the deposed president would be executed if neighboring countries attempted a military intervention to restore his rule.
The hostilities between Russia and Ukraine may end up dragging on for years or even decades, former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Saturday. For Russia, it is an “existential” conflict and a fight for its very existence, Medvedev, who is currently deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, wrote in a Telegram post. Russia must destroy and fully dismantle the Ukrainian state that is “terrorist in its essence,” making sure “this filth” never re-emerges again, he stressed. “Should it take years or even decades, then so be it. We have no choice: either we will destroy their hostile political regime, or the collective West will eventually tear Russia to pieces. And in this case, it will perish with us. Nobody needs this,” Medvedev wrote, presumably hinting at all-out nuclear destruction.
“Therefore, the only way is a complete dismantling of the state machine of the hostile country and absolute guarantees of loyalty for the future. They can only be provided by Russia’s control over everything that is happening and will happen in the territories of the former Banderite state. And we will achieve that
The US and its allies do not want the Ukraine conflict to end and their purported peace initiatives are merely attempts to buy Kiev time, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview published on Saturday.
Washington and Brussels have openly unleashed a hybrid war against everything Russian, dropping their masks after decades of pretending to be civilized international partners, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview with International Affairs, published on Saturday. “Many of our former partners have been concealing their Russophobic nature under the veil of hypocrisy, but have now shown their true face in all its glory,” he said. “However, there is also the flip side of the coin here, since the Global Majority saw the true face of those who went as far as [to] aspire to a monopoly in defining the so-called universal values.” “Today’s West is steered by people like Josep Borrell who divide the world into a blooming ‘garden’ and ‘the jungle,’ where the latter clearly applies to most of humanity,”Lavrov added.
The West has spent decades cynically transforming neighboring Ukraine into a “hostile military bulwark against Russia by nurturing an entire generation of politicians ready to declare war on our shared past, culture and everything Russian,” according to Lavrov. Western capitals even openly admitted that reaching a peaceful settlement in Ukraine was never part of their plan, and that the Minsk agreements were originally designed to “buy some time to prepare a military scenario and deliver weapons to Kiev.” “I think that the essential thing we must understand in this regard is that the West wants to do away with our country as a serious geopolitical rival,” the top Russian diplomat said.
The Ukrainian authorities are preying not only on their own people but also on US taxpayers, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement. “The Kiev elite is preying not only on its fellow citizens but also on American taxpayers. Not so long ago, US presidential hopeful Robert F. Kennedy Jr. pointed out in an interview that Washington’s spending on Ukraine aid stood at $130 billion, while 15 million Americans did not have medical insurance and 30 million people in the US lacked food stamps,” she noted.
Of course, this is their choice and the Zelensky junta’s decision to go on fighting until the last Ukrainian,” he went on.
“But, historically, the United States cannot boast a good reputation in terms of supporting its allies.” In this context, he recalled that the termination of the US military assistance to South Vietnam in 1973 and to the Ashraf Ghani regime in Afghanistan in 2021 ended up in the immediate fall of the authorities loyal to Washington. “And present-day Ukraine practically totally depends on Western money and weapons supplies,” he stressed. Lavrov noted that the west “is seeking to eliminate Russia as a serious geopolitical rival.” “This is why Washington and Brussels have unleashed a hybrid war against us,” he said. “And it is supplemented by the unprecedented sanction pressure.
The Americans are using the carrot-and-stick policy in a bid to make our partners to refuse from economic and other cooperation with Russia.” They don’t’ hesitate to resort to blatant sabotage, like in the case with the explosions at the Nord Stream gas pipelines running across the Baltic Sea, or taking efforts to remove Russia from the mechanisms of international cooperation in the areas of culture, education, science, and sports. “Evidently, these and other aggressive measures are geared to weaken, exhaust Russia,” Lavrov noted. “They are seeking to maximally drain out our economic, technological, and defense capacities, to limit our sovereignty and make us drop our independent foreign and domestic policy.”.
According to Wagner, Ukraine lost ~ 40,000 dead during the months-long battle for the city of Bakhmut. President Zelensky has come under criticism for pouring so many resources and manpower into what was a losing battle. Where thousands completely untrained and underequipped Ukrainians were shipped to their death fighting for nothing.
The reams of Biden family bank records that Mr. Comer of Kentucky has unearthed hither and yon, plus deal memoranda, video and audio recordings of dark confabs, and hundreds of tell-tale emails are of a different evidentiary nature than the roster of hypothetical thought crimes confabulated by Jack Smith, Alvin Bragg, and Fani T. Willis. Personally, I would like, at least, to see impeachment hearings where all that hard evidence of Biden family bribery is methodically laid out for The New York Times and CNN to ignore. It will look like a game of chicken for a few days, but then the party honchos will “sadly” order Ol’ Joe to step aside before that grim spectacle goes too far. The Ukraine War will then be Kamala Harris’s to lose — depend on it — though nobody will care.
of all the suspected fraud in 2020, Arizona was the first state that raised suspicions in real time. Despite not voting Democrat in a two-candidate presidential election since 1948, Fox News shockingly called the state for Biden after just 27% of the vote was reported. This sparked a forensic audit that concluded that the number of illegal votes exceeded Biden’s alleged 11-thousand-vote victory fivefold. When vote-counting was inexplicably halted on Election Night, Trump led all these states by six figures. A combination of any three of these states holding would have secured him a second term, which is why Democrats fought so hard to steal them. But even putting state-specific statistics aside, a basic analysis of election history signals the improbability of Biden receiving the number of votes he allegedly did.
Every general election since 2004 has seen between 120–130 million total votes. The 2020 election reportedly saw 155 million votes. There were roughly 168 million registered voters in 2020, which means that voter turnout in 2020 was an astonishing 92%. This is statistically improbable
President Joe Biden armed himself with several fake identities during his time as Barack Obama’s vice president when communicating with son Hunter, as well as the latter’s foreign business partners, emails from the notorious “laptop from hell” reveal,
There’s hardly a more relevant place across the Heartland to observe the current power play than Samarkand, the fabled “Rome of the East.” Here we are in the heart of ancient Sogdiana – the historical trade crossroads between China, India, Parthia, and Persia, an immensely important node of East-West cultural trends, Zoroastrianism, and pre/post-Islamic vectors.

Many nuggets posted there….
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Aug 20 2023 13:34 utc | 10

@ 2 shadowboob
haven’t you got a roundabout to play on?

Posted by: AleaJactaEst | Aug 20 2023 13:39 utc | 11

Anyone else having difficulty – impossible now – accessing SOUTHFRONT yesterday. No problem at all till yesterday?

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Aug 20 2023 13:50 utc | 12

Now, murdered Russian civilians and attacks deep inside Russian territory are but pinpricks and straws.
Funny, that.
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 13:29 utc | 7

Compared to nearly a thousand Banderastani troop losses every day? Yup, pinpricks and straws.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 13:54 utc | 13

You can almost smell the anger seething through various MSM articles and reports, which are filled with emotions and little objectivity.
Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 13:31 utc | 8
———————————————————–
Pinpricks, etc.
It looks, overall, as if the Russians are getting their money’s worth in reaching their objectives. Slow decimation of the enemy and wearing down the NATO cohesion and willingness to support endless war. They are also successful in unifying the Global South, no small feat.
They certainly have failed to walk on water or getting their ankles wet. Such is life.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:05 utc | 14

@2 shadowbanned
You take casualties in war.one thing you didn’t list was the several hundred dead Ukrainian soldiers who died wading across the dnieper and thunder running up narrow paths through mine fields, or the multiple other sites where russian missles hit.
Losses are unavoidable and russian territory is vast and impossible to control 100%.
If the losses make you anxious, I don’t think war is your thing.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 14:10 utc | 15

The “rains” and mud and such, make “warring” difficult. However, Russia has many times traversed and executed offensives on ice and snow. All that forestry will lay bare, as well as river freezes ect., makes for excellent conditions of offensive.
The West keeps spouting off 2024 renewed Ukrainian offensive with wonder weapons/jets and some fantasy 5th army coming, like Russia is just going to sit there and drink hot chocolate over the winter. It’s not at all like 2022 winter for Russian military.
It’s possible Russia just sit there, for political reasons, but historically Russia has done some of its most damaging campaigns in winter. Just my opinion. That would be the time all the lights & heat go out, guessing by now they have rewired & have own grids for Novorrosyia area by now. Maybe they need another year to run direct gas and power lines to keep Novorrosyia lit & warm. These “new territories” have got to be costing boatloads every day, and adding more as they conquer as got to be a strain that systematically needs to be calibrated in measured movements lest they go broke in the absorption of all this.
Anyways, guessing in any event, Ukraine isn’t going to get the winter vacation they seek.
Anyways, we’ll see.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 20 2023 14:11 utc | 16

Anyone else having difficulty – impossible now – accessing SOUTHFRONT yesterday. No problem at all till yesterday?
Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Aug 20 2023 13:50 utc | 12
It has been blocked and is now reachable at southfront.press, see:
https://southfront.press/southfront-org-blocked-by-u-s-controlled-global-internet-supervisor/

Posted by: Zet | Aug 20 2023 14:12 utc | 17

@12 I could tell you but since it’s been asked and answered so much I’m going to tell you to read the previous ukraine thread.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 14:13 utc | 18

For those that expect a Russia offensive, Why? What actions has Putin shown that he has the strength to launch an offensive. The longer he waits the more time he gives West to come up with answers for Ukraine. From the pro-Russian camp all I hear is Putin will do in Fall, no winter, no really Spring, no wait it will be at their choosing…..and all the time more attacks on Russia, civilians and military deaths.
Understand, the West does not care about Ukrainian blood, they only care about destroying Russia and prolonging conflict to after 2024 elections, so fir the West, thete is plently of Ukrainians to sacrifice to keep this up and it means nothing to them.
And while sitting in defense, Russia kills more and More Ukranians that just keep coming and coming. Putin is afraid to retaliate strong off to create a big enough deterrent to stop Wests “pin pricks (insulting minimization of Russian deaths)” and war drags on.
Russia needs strong leader that isn’t closest Atlantisist and is committed to finishing this once and for all.
My big fear, and I think justified, is that Putin will agree to Minsk 3, and waste all those Russian lives that fought in SMO and endanger all the Russians who voted for indepedence. This will allow Nato to build up Western Ukraine once again but allow Putin to vacation in Europe. Really, Putin has to go.
Why dies Dnieper still have bridges, how and why can West get ammo and TANKS to Donbass area? How many dead Russians must there be for Putin to man up?

Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:05 utc | 14 “They are also successful in unifying the Global South, no small feat.”
What is your measurement of success in the above?

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:30 utc | 20

Russian Offensive?
I have been anticipating a significant Russian offensive now for a while. At this point I will not believe in any signficant Russian offensive until clearly documented.
It appears that the Russian tactic has been one of active defense with limited offensive actions where the Ukrainian front was weak and low-risk advancement improved defensive positions.
With the Ukrainians coming to the Russian defensive positions, a strategy of active defense with limited offensive appears to have worked well for the Russians.
There is no need for the Russians to chase the enemy. It just comes to you. All the Russians had to do was/is to identify where the AFU is and defend as needed to neutralize the advancing enemy. This approach has been beneficial in both Troops and equipment.
It is plausable that the Russian position of active defense will continue until the Ukrainian army pretty well exhausts itself.
Recently, the Ukrainians supposely engaged their last brigades for their offensive which started June 4th. So, the intensity of the AFU attack should reach a maximum within a few weeks and then start to taper off.
There will be a point where it will be advantageous for the Russians to seriously advance. That will be evident when they start to advance in a significant way.

Posted by: young | Aug 20 2023 14:33 utc | 21

My, how they’re out in force today (when they could be on the front lines…but for which side? hmm…)

Wests “pin pricks (insulting minimization of Russian deaths)” and war drags on

“Pinpricks” refers to the style of attack, not to the victims. But you knew that.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 14:34 utc | 22

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2023 12:59 utc | 1
Sean, I saw the legacy video links, the woman in the white dress standing near the theatre, then a couple of others of street level explosions but not what you describe. can you post a link what it was you saw? Thanks.

Posted by: madmarc | Aug 20 2023 14:42 utc | 23

From the Automatic Earth’s Debt Rattle… But even putting state-specific statistics aside, a basic analysis of election history signals the improbability of Biden receiving the number of votes he allegedly did.
Every general election since 2004 has seen between 120–130 million total votes. The 2020 election reportedly saw [A RECORD] 155 million votes. There were roughly 168 million registered voters in 2020, which means that voter turnout in 2020 was an astonishing 92%. This is statistically improbable
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Aug 20 2023 13:34 utc | 10

On the surface this seems so. The complicating problem here though is it was not a “historically normal” election due to the Covid19 restrictions in place and especially because of the doubling of ‘reported’ mail-in votes increasing to 65 million Votes or 42% of the total votes cast in 2020. Some states mail-in votes were in the high 80 percent range – New Jersey and DC for example.
It was this extremely high mail-in vote count that totally threw the normal counting trends overnight into the next day once they were being counted in the tallies. Now, of course, this then begs the question of – were they really all ‘legitimate votes’ or ring-ins? The local and state election officials have claimed they were legitimate – many found that hard to believe and still do.
Mail-in Votes historically have the highest rejection rate due to security issues surrounding “signatures” not matching the Electoral Roll records or missing entirely. Suddenly in 2020 those Votes doubled in volume across the country. While new Registrations also soared above historical trends. Both these things supposed led to the huge increase in total votes to 155 million. Both candidate received record breaking Votes in 2020!
The US is one of a few countries that allows partisan control of the election processes and different vote counting systems as opposed to using independent electoral commissions to run elections at arms length to political parties … including setting of electorate boundaries. The whole system is questionable against ‘international best practice’.
While HRC and the Democrats and anti-Trump media spent 4 years falsely claiming the election was stolen and that Russia had actually ‘flipped votes’ for Trump. They spent most of 2018 alleging that the electronic software Voting Machines used across the US were faulty and not secure – including Senator Kamala Harris who proved it in Congress to her peers.
The only thing that made any sense was the vote percentages aligned with the pre-polling numbers.
But after spending 4 long years undermining the credibility of the electoral systems and questioning the results of the 2016 election it should come as no surprise to anyone that the credibility of the exceptionally stunning 2020 election result for President was doubted given the extremely unusual way vote counting events unfolded.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 20 2023 14:43 utc | 24

Well I guess we now know what the current spin is….”Russia is weak because they wont do a BigArrow offensive” & “Russia is weak ‘cause they cannot keep the population 100% safe from Ukrainian attacks”
——And THAT’s it! That is all they got.
But damn do they take a whole’lotta text to say it. As if they will be convincing anyone here. Ah well, such is the life of a troll in the land of cubicles and 3-ring binders i suppose….

Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 20 2023 14:44 utc | 25

NATO needs only UA territory to harm Russia, population is irrelevant. After disposing all ukies, they will bring cheap mercs from 3rd world and show will continue.
Russia lost another season and in autumn conflict will freeze. Donetzk will be shelled from Avdeevka for next 10 Years. On top of that Putin allowed to be kept in bunker during BRICS summit – unbelievable humiliation showing how weak this leader is. True leader of multipolar world.. OMG!

Posted by: smartboy | Aug 20 2023 14:46 utc | 26

Well lookin-here! SmartPloy shows up just in time to demonstrate my point….
Excelsior!

Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 20 2023 14:48 utc | 27

We heard about the “coming Ukrainian offensive” for months before it finally materialized in June. Now there is speculation about an impending Russian move. With such things we will know with certainty only after actual movements have begun. Specific predictions in this war have not generally been borne out. In the Ukrainian case their eventual move was a certainty if their campaign was to remain viable. For the Russian side this is not the case, although the build up of forces and material suggests some objective beyond the current status quo.

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 20 2023 14:48 utc | 28

Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19
Some say that the bridges are up and that Russia wants to keep the SMO going at a low level so as not to upset the rest of the world or the everyday Ukrainian resident. Others say it is done this way to keep China happy; who has much infrastructure investment in the Ukraine.
Furthermore , some say that the SMO is going to current plan. I remain unconvinced that the SMO is going to current plan and I believe all the above socalled benefits are simply a result of good-luck. It is good luck that the Ukraine keeps sending in WWI charges of infantry, it is good luck that the EU and US haven’t sent in more aeroplanes and troops yet.
The only things I believe were planned by Russia was to be self-sufficient in time of war , it would have the RoW supporting it and that it would start a dedollarisation phase.
I fear that Russia cannot endure low-level conflict like this for years and years , with all the sanctions on it as well. It appears that it is at a stalemate and such means that Russia is still not safe. I don’t see NATO breaking up soon , or even members rebelling or going slow. The US has all its satraps by the throat and will bleed them to the end. Who cares if Italians, French or Germans have a lower standard of living from now on? Certainly not the US…

Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 14:49 utc | 29

Lavrov’s Dog@24
Thank you for this. There is no doubt in my mind that the election was a contest between two teams both intent on stealing it. The side with the most practice and the deepest pockets won.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 20 2023 14:53 utc | 30

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:05 utc | 14 “They are also successful in unifying the Global South, no small feat.”
What is your measurement of success in the above?
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:30 utc | 20
————————————————–
Integers, counting countries.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:53 utc | 31

Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 14:49 utc | 29 “it would have the RoW supporting it and that it would start a dedollarisation phase.”
Is the above happening? I see most of the RoW on the fence.
And the BRICS have stated that they aren’t doing dedollarisation. At least according to this: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2023/08/brics-officially-confirmed-that-it-doesnt-want-to-de-dollarize-isnt-anti-western.html
“I fear that Russia cannot endure low-level conflict like this for years and years”
I don’t think it’s a “low-level” conflict. More of a medium level conflict but I don’t know of any objective measurements for one versus the other. Anyone know of any?

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:57 utc | 32

The callous disregarded for the dead by some posters today, is sickening. It doesn’t matter who they are, they are fellow humans forced in to a situation they do not want any part of. Oh sure they can surrender, and be shot in the back or they can charge forward and be shot in the front….and the Russians still refuse to target the top command and control centres, the leaders that keep the game, and fucking game it is, going.
Never mind the lack of major critical infrastructure destruction required to bring the SloMo to an end.
And the keyboard warriors cheer it on, like killing a thousand Ukies a day is like a fucking pool party….oops, did you spill your drink…..poor dear.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2023 14:59 utc | 33

@ 13:13|malenkov| 4
“Wow, a bunch of pinpricks”
May you copiumista barflies forgive my concern trolling but the price of a Tu-22M3 Strategic Bomber is around US $ 40 Million

Posted by: CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34

@ Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 20 2023 14:43 utc | 24
Thought-provoking comment but wrong thread. You might consider copying it to the non-404 thread in case it gets deleted here.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:01 utc | 35

I don’t think it’s a “low-level” conflict. More of a medium level conflict but I don’t know of any objective measurements for one versus the other. Anyone know of any?
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:57 utc | 32
Lots of artillery in use and trench warfare makes it at least medium.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 20 2023 15:03 utc | 36

https://t.me/ukraine_watch/7270

Dmitriy Medvedev: “It will take some time, the Western authorities will change, their elites will get tired and beg for negotiations on Ukraine, freezing the conflict”.

https://t.me/ukraine_watch/7316

💸 The head of the German Finance Ministry suggested that Bundestag deputies should set aside 5 billion euros a year for military aid to Kiev.
Christian Lindner said that Germany had already provided 22bn euros worth of aid to Ukraine.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/08/19/7416246/

EU Foreign Affairs chief: Russia akin to gas station with nuclear weapons

1. Freezing the conflict isn’t compatible with any of the stated SMO goals,
2. It doesn’t sound like it’s even an option,
3. Enforce plan A.

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 20 2023 15:04 utc | 37

@ CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34
Strange, I failed to note any concern in your comment.
Anyway, the loss of that plane (assuming it was a total loss of course) will bankrupt Russia for sure, amirite?

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:05 utc | 38

Putin and Medvedev are pursuing a policy of eliminating the Ukrainian military and any NATO folks foolish enough to be fighting with it…While simultaneously exhausting NATO’s weapon stockpile, and furthering Russia’s political aims with the Global South…Many folks, including some luminaries like Paul Craig Roberts, have difficulty understanding this strategy, but that’s their problem….

Posted by: pyrrhus | Aug 20 2023 15:06 utc | 39

@ pyrrhus | Aug 20 2023 15:06 utc | 39
Hardly surprising. The American understanding of warfare, even including some of the military brass, doesn’t go far beyond BIG THRUSTY ARROWS on pretty multicolored maps and LOTS OF BOOM BOOM. Pretty infantile if you ask me.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:10 utc | 40

LOL as soon as the big winterspringsummeranytimenow counter offensive fails we get a major influx NAFO trolls trying to flip the script. It’s funny really. Right on cue. Clearly some are even meagerly paid, too.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 20 2023 15:13 utc | 41

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 14:57 utc | 32
Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 20 2023 15:03 utc | 36
Yes, you may be more accurate but my emphasis was the state of affairs rather than splitting hairs over the details.
Yes, I also would have liked more publicly-worded support and actual physical help from the RoW but it is not to be, at least for the present. Yet the moral support from those governments , and more importantly ,the everyday person of those natioms is there in bucket-loads.
Yee, artillery etc probably makes it medium-level warfare ,but the gist remains the same. Too many horseflies on a horse’s arse will in the end send the horse mad and it will likely weaken and die. I fear Russia may be in that horse’s position if NATO doesn’t cave- in ,go bankrupt or Russia lands some knockout blows soon.

Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:15 utc | 42

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Aug 20 2023 14:53 utc | 31 “Counting countires”
Where do you put India? Are they pro Ukraine, pro Russia or neutral?
What weight do you give the UN votes? For example, ES‑11/4? Where do the counties that abstained fall?
17 African countries showed at the 2023 St. Petersburg Russia-Africa summit versus 49 in prior Russia-Africa summit? How do you judge that?
How do you judge South Africa given their statement about having to arrest Putin if he showed?
My opinion there is a lot of fence sitting/hedging. Not lining up behind Russia, but not wanting to adopt the West’s position.

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:15 utc | 43

Posted by: CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34
That’s all you’ve got? a $40M Tupolev was damaged? After 18 months supporting Kievland, the US and EU are now about several trillion dollars poorer and Russia 600 billion richer, but we don’t see you crying here about it.

Posted by: Lemming | Aug 20 2023 15:16 utc | 44

If the losses make you anxious, I don’t think war is your thing.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 14:10 utc | 15
############
Indeed. I think the critics often forget that Putin is leading the creation of a new global infrastructure, while taking care of issues within Russia, its neighbors, BRICs, etc.
I don’t have person first-hand knowledge, but any thinking person can appreciate how much Putin has to deal with, think about, and make decisions every day. We have the luxury of following the war as internet voyeurs. Putin is one of those guys who from waking to sleep, doesn’t have spare time to slack off or relax. Putin, like Xi, is not presiding over a devolving civilization like Macron, Biden, and Sunak. They all couldn’t stop the momentum of collapse if they wanted to, and none of them particularly want to.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 15:20 utc | 45

Russia needs strong leader that isn’t closest Atlantisist and is committed to finishing this once and for all.
Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19
###########
Are you volunteering for the job?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 15:22 utc | 46

Wondrous writes:

Yes, I also would have liked more publicly-worded support and actual physical help from the RoW but it is not to be, at least for the present.

I doubt Russia expected much overt support from the community of nations, and with good reason: All states have borders they regard as inviolable — well, okay, except for Israel, which keeps expanding — and insist on their right to hold on to territories even regardless of the will of the affected people. To say that Russia’s SMO is justified is to admit the possibility that one’s own borders can be questioned.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:29 utc | 47

Another SMO failed!
The Special Moon Operation crashed badly
5D Master of desaster
The money would be better invested into drone protection

Posted by: tesla | Aug 20 2023 15:30 utc | 48

@ Charles M 19
“What actions has Putin shown that he has the strength to launch an offensive. The longer he waits the more time he gives West to come up with answers for Ukraine. …
My big fear … is that Putin will agree to Minsk 3 … This will allow Nato to build up Western Ukraine once again but allow Putin to vacation in Europe. Really, Putin has to go.

This is pure nonsense, maybe “concern trolling”, IDK.
There is a very important interview with Michael Hudson which speaks to these concerns. Dr. Hudson says it is simply impossible for the West to re-industrialize without the big banks all going bust first.
No exaggeration, it’s a “must read.”
Link to the Hudson interview
So, no NATO re-industrialization in the short to medium term means Russia need not worry about Ukraine getting lots of war material. So Russia can slow-walk the SMO and save lives. On RT, former President Medvedev recently said the war could last “decades”. I think he just gave a sharp answer to impatient people, but knows the US can’t do much. I doubt it will take decades for the Empire to come undone. One decade at the most.
One of the big unanswered questions is, “How far down will the Empire have to go, before it’s all over ?”

Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 49

@5 English Outsider
Graham Phillips speaks quite well Russian, he doesn’t need a translator.
I suppose you mean John Dougan and Masha?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4QVsQ72kOg

Posted by: BG13 | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 50

Ed4, who loves numbers, writes: “17 African countries showed at the 2023 St. Petersburg Russia-Africa summit” — although the real number was 42. It’s just that several states were not represented by heads of state or government but by other high-level ministers.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:32 utc | 51

Putin is one of those guys who from waking to sleep, doesn’t have spare time to slack off or relax.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 15:20 utc | 45

butbutbut … shadowbanned assures us that Putin is nowhere to be seen! A subtle way of hinting, as NAFO and CIPSO types will, that he’s cowering in a bunker somewhere.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:36 utc | 52

So, no NATO re-industrialization in the short to medium term means Russia need not worry about Ukraine getting lots of war material. So Russia can slow-walk the SMO and save lives.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 49

Ursula VDL and other intellectuals of her cabinet have been letting out noises about “war economy”. But judging by her direct competencies in micromanagement of EUropean industries so far, we probably need not worry. EU also can’t do much without declaring some sort of semi state of martial law.
Likewise, US arms producers are private companies. While they will build new weapons, they won’t necessarily create new production lines to increase volume (maybe artillery shells) unless they get much larger contracts than now. Even now with the military budget highest than ever, the volumes are low, they would need to raise the budget by 30% at minimum to entice the companies to create new production lines.
If you have too large output for a given contract, it will eat away profit margins most likely.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 15:38 utc | 53

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:32 utc | 51 “several states were not represented by heads of state or government but by other high-level ministers.”
Isn’t that usually considered a diplomatic snub of sorts as Putin (President of Russia, head of state) was hosting? Compared to the number of heads of state or government that attended the prior one?

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:39 utc | 54

Isn’t that usually considered a diplomatic snub of sorts as Putin (President of Russia, head of state) was hosting? Compared to the number of heads of state or government that attended the prior one?
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:39 utc | 54

Not hard to figure out. They were threatened to not show their face in the conference by Evil Vicky, or else… because that’s how they roll.
So they sent some representative delegations.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 15:42 utc | 55

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:29 utc | 47
I am also a committed Westphalian , generally believing in sovereign and inviolable borders , but only when based on history or reason. Those bs borders in the Ukraine were imposed by Lenin ,Krustchev and Andropov and the Austrian-Hungarian empire before that, so Russia in my mind can say it is our land, our people and we want it back. Russia can also say well if it was good enough for Kosovo , Bosnia/Herzegovina, Israel (West Bank and Golan Heights at least) it is good enough for NovoRussia too.
However, I see your point and why many nations would remain silent in public, but the hypocrisy of NATO /EU and its satraps stink to High Heaven . See case of Catalonia only a few years ago.

Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:43 utc | 56

Re:
Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19
“Russia needs strong leader that isn’t closest Atlantisist and is committed to finishing this once and for all.”
This “closet Atlanticist theme” runs throughout various posts and themes & has no substance in fact whatsoever.
And that is blatantly obvious today.
It is certainly true that for 30 years Putin, seeing the EU, Europe as a “natural partner” and diligently, even humiliatingly so, tried to build a relationship of equality & and mutual respect regarding mutual interests.
At the same time, he did the same with his other Border nation states, China Turkey, into the Middle East, Iran, Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia , over to India, Kazakhstan, even North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba, protecting Russian relations & interests.
The goal for Putins revitalization & to strengthen the collapsed USSR for 30 years is to be acknowledged as a reliable, fluid, global power of equal & respected interests.
As far as West, ALL nations have been under the jackboot of the “global currency holder US” for 50 years, Putins capitulated “weaknesses” that have labeled him as some kind of “Atlantist” is hardly any different for any leader on the globe, and for some reason they’re not labeled “closet Atlantisist.
Putins foreign policy, Lavrov never ceasing energy and diplomacy, ending with no pay off, to the obvious point of economic and military fight with the “Atlantisist”.
If Russias “Putin” had been some true “closet Atlantisist”… for 30 years… then they’d be looking like France right now, with no one coming to their aid. Disintegrating into irrelevance.
As it is, they have the most economical powerful Nation, China, as well as 2nd tier India & 1st tier Saudi Arabia (energy) as “equal and respected partners”.
None of that would have been possible had Russia been some kind if “closet Atlantisist” for 30 years. Russia wanted an equal & profitable business relationship, within its European border states, and as part of its EU heritage.
But the “EU” heritage, is hardly the only one, their borders stretch far and wide. The EU/US “Atlantisist” rejected an equal & respectful nation state relationship with Russia. So be it.
The global evidence that Putin has not spent the last 30 years being a “closest Atlantisist” is there for anyone without prejudice to view.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 20 2023 15:44 utc | 57

@ Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:43 utc | 56
Agreed on all counts!

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 15:46 utc | 58

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2023 15:38 utc | 53
I agree with you in principle , but law does allow the US gov -as others- to nationalise all industry at the least for “the duration and one day “ ,as they say.
All it takes is one signature and the US is on a war-footing. Resources? Easy, it gets rare earths from Aus , processed and polluting up Malaysia and all the uranium from Niger ,now that it has managed to kick the French out of West Africa . The only limiting- step I see is properly trained workers ,even at machine-processing manufacturing level.

Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:51 utc | 59

Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 49 “Russia need not worry about Ukraine getting lots of war material.”
Only time will tell on the supply of weapons from the West to Ukraine but the west still has lots of stuff. The US alone has more than a thousand Bradley’s and Abrams in storage. Hundreds of Strykers. Cheaper to give them to Ukraine than continue to store them and eventually dispose of them in an “environmentally” sound way.
The US is buying up other countries production of various items and shipping it to Ukraine. Other countries are doing the same. That includes weapons being manufactured in South Africa. For example, https://www.defense-aerospace.com/rheinmetall-wins-major-contract-for-155mm-artillery-ammunition-from-nato-country/ (Another reason I put South Africa as on the fence in regard to pro Ukraine, or pro Russia) Sweden just announced an arms package. This morning’s news was that F-16’s are (eventually) coming from the Netherlands and Denmark? The US has a few hundred they are turning into drones to blow up that could be sent.
Anyway, might not be “lots” but plenty of stuff to keep this war going for quite some time.

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:52 utc | 60

17 African countries showed at the 2023 St. Petersburg Russia-Africa summit
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:15 utc | 43
FALSE.
17 heads of state, according the G7 MSM (which, incidentally, recognizes 54 members of the AU55, still refers to Myanmar as “Burma,” and purportedly never received copies of the 2022 Joint statement of the President of the Russian Federation and the Chairman of the People’s Republic of China on the plan for the development of key areas of Russian-Chinese economic cooperation until 2030 and Joint statement by the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China on the deepening of relations of comprehensive partnership and strategic interaction entering a new era or any of the twelve (12) intergovernmental MOUs). According to RU and sundry Africa presses, all but seven AU55 member government and trade delegations attended the RU-Africa summit.
43 heads of state attended the First RF-Africa Summit (2019). Why would they all return—if they survived The Pandemic®—when they had already agreed to “deepen” economic, diplomatic, and military co-operation? Can you identify from this plenary portrait which of the “17” are repeat or new participants? I can’t. But I can guess, based on G7 panic this past month, at least 5 that might take the opportunity to confirm and co-ordinate RF guarantees on the, ahem, sidelines.
Documents adopted and signed following the second Russia-Africa Summit (2023), of which Declaration of the Second Russia-Africa Summit

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 20 2023 15:52 utc | 61

Well I guess we now know what the current spin is….”Russia is weak because they wont do a BigArrow offensive” & “Russia is weak ‘cause they cannot keep the population 100% safe from Ukrainian attacks”
——And THAT’s it! That is all they got….
Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 20 2023 14:44 utc | 25
Now, murdered Russian civilians and attacks deep inside Russian territory are but pinpricks and straws.
Funny, that.
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 13:29 utc | 7
I think you’re on to something, Chevrus.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 20 2023 15:53 utc | 62

The commander in chief has spoken, reality will hit the West hard and soon.

Posted by: AI | Aug 20 2023 15:55 utc | 63

@pyrrhus | Aug 20 2023 15:06 utc | 39

Putin and Medvedev are pursuing a policy of eliminating the Ukrainian military and any NATO folks foolish enough to be fighting with it…While simultaneously exhausting NATO’s weapon stockpile, and furthering Russia’s political aims with the Global South…Many folks, including some luminaries like Paul Craig Roberts, have difficulty understanding this strategy, but that’s their problem….

Yes, and in a war of attrition you want to have the logistics on your side. The supply lines of “the west” are very much longer than Russias.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 20 2023 16:01 utc | 64

@ sean the leprechaun 33
the Russians still refuse to target the top command and control centres, the leaders that keep the game … going.
Never mind the lack of major critical infrastructure destruction required to bring the SloMo to an end.

This is of the few things I don’t understand. And also sparing the Nazi blockers who sit a few km back from the front lines, ready to kill Ukies who want to surrender or desert. I can’t see why those blockers are not high-priority targets. Maybe they are hard to find, but I doubt it because they use simple VHF radios to control the front line and locating the radios is totally not cutting-edge technology. In 1940 it was a bit expensive, but not now. The system was a dual-channel phase-and-gain-matched receiver, feeding the IF into a cathode ray tube. One such set gives a line on the CRT screen pointing to the source. With two sets, in different locations, the lines cross and you get perfect triangulation. The Germans used this system in Paris and maybe elsewhere, for HF surveillance. The system was public knowledge in the US back then, too. Just one “dot” from a hidden transmitter and it could be located to within a few miles. At VHF and shorter distances, the location is almost within the burst radius of a single 152mm shell. Nowadays, it’s cheaper to use a small computer and a color LCD display, color showing the frequency. About $600 max for two sets – if China built them in volume but I guess they don’t. Anyway, those Nazi blockers are definitely not needed by Russia or by whatever will be the remains of “404”. “The season of surrender” is already in progress, so the blockers need to be sent to Bandera.
But about sparing the infrastructure such as the the Dneiper bridges and the 750kV power lines, well that I can understand in the larger scheme of things. It gives some idea of what Russia intends for “Ukraine”.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 16:02 utc | 65

Isn’t that usually considered a diplomatic snub of sorts as Putin (President of Russia, head of state) was hosting? Compared to the number of heads of state or government that attended the prior one?
Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 20 2023 15:39 utc | 54
############
Is Africa closer to the West today than it was before the SMO?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:03 utc | 66

Shadowbore’s motorcycle out-riders for today’s shift of “anything less than a nuclear launch is weak / treason / corrupt”
Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19
Posted by: smartboy | Aug 20 2023 14:46 utc | 26
Posted by: CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34
Posted by: tesla | Aug 20 2023 15:30 utc | 48
The four numbskulls of the apocalypse. Sadly 187.5 dead Ukrainian soldiers today for each of their 4 posts. Not that any of these warmongering, cheerleading reprobates care at all.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 67

@ malenkov 13.
Indeed, compared to what the Chechens did for years it’s a pinprick and they had less to work with, but OTOH Russia was a lot weaker then.
I see people are getting excited about the Ukr’s now being at the V-weapons stage of their war effort.
Every intermittent strike will be a catastrophe for which the Kremlins should be lambasted every civilian death gets dumped on Putin’s door, rather than blaming the ones who did it. Oh and the solution to that is nuke to Balts, Poland, Brussels, London, New York or whomever…
Whole Ukr brigades are shot-to-pieces major infrastructure gets crippled & the CW pours endless excessive amounts of money and hard to replace munitions into the Great Maw of Kiev. That somehow doesn’t count though.
One of the new lines is muh bombers, muh AWAC planes, muh million dood army, muh fixation-on-verbiage-of-one-statement-among-many. Or to put it another way Russia should’ve turned into a slavic version of North Korea with everything that implies.
As if you can spam brigades & air regiments like units in video game. As if resurrecting aero-space & other industries is easy and quick, in the context other pressing needs over 20 years. Doubtless when the RF wins there’ll be complaints about how it wasn’t the right type of victory.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 68

@lovedonbass
“Russia needs strong leader that isn’t closest Atlantisist and is committed to finishing this once and for all.
Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19
###########
Are you volunteering for the job?”
I’d rather be made President of US and try to turn ourselves around before trying another country. Besides, my Russian is horrible but my wife makes awesome Borsht soup which would please visitors to the Kremlin.
BTW, just because I criticize Putin and the SMO does not mean I am troll. That is intellectual emptiness and ad hominem fallacy and attack. I come here because I think debate is at higher level, but I realize I could be wrong.

Posted by: Charles M. | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 69

http://avia.pro/news/10-tysyach-polskih-voennosluzhashchih-pogibli-na-ukraine-za-poltora-goda
Польское издание “Mysl Polska” опубликовало шокирующую статистику, связанную с участием польских граждан в конфликте на Украине. Согласно данным издания, за прошедшие полтора года на украинской территории погибли около 10 тысяч поляков.

Posted by: Catilina | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 70

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 13:03 utc | 2

The mythical Russian offensive is just that — a myth —

Whose myths are you gathering and basing your screed on?
It wasn’t Putin or the MoD who created these fantasies.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 20 2023 16:09 utc | 71

Posted by: BG13 | Aug 20 2023 15:31 utc | 50
I suppose you mean John Dougan and Masha?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4QVsQ72kOg
That’s it. It had disappeared from youtube. Apologies to John Dougan for misattributing his work.
I did wonder about Graham Phillips not speaking Russian. He’s been over there for a while. My error made my search no easier. Thank you for taking the trouble to link to it.

Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 20 2023 16:10 utc | 72

@ BG13 50
Graham Phillips speaks quite well Russian, he doesn’t need a translator.
His Russian is plenty good now, but he often travels with a Russian who knows the local scene. It’s what journalists do. I’ve always considered his videos from 2014 as a benchmark for learning Russian. He was hesitant then and he’s very fluent now. But ditching the English accent is harrrd.
Thanks for the link to John Dougan and Masha. I’d never heard of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4QVsQ72kOg

Posted by: JessDTruth | Aug 20 2023 16:11 utc | 73

I’d rather be made President of US and try to turn ourselves around before trying another country. Besides, my Russian is horrible but my wife makes awesome Borsht soup which would please visitors to the Kremlin.
BTW, just because I criticize Putin and the SMO does not mean I am troll. That is intellectual emptiness and ad hominem fallacy and attack. I come here because I think debate is at higher level, but I realize I could be wrong.
Posted by: Charles M. | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 69
##########
And here I was just suggesting that you use your superior perspective to improve the world.
Some Americans are so sensitive! 😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:13 utc | 74

German chancellor Olaf Scholz calls protesters, who are calling for peace talks, “fallen angels straight from hell”: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HrRT06KWKrE?feature=share

Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 20 2023 16:14 utc | 75

English outsider-here is Graham Phillips email I’m sure he will provide the interview for you-gwplondon@gmail.com

Posted by: canuck | Aug 20 2023 16:14 utc | 76

Low? Medium level conflict? WTF? There are hundreds of thousands dead. Many times that number maimed. Some of you people call this low level? All I can say is some posters here must have a difficult time walking. If you get my meaning.
You need to pull your head out and realise that. This is World War Three. Its not about Ukraine.
It is about the whole world. Russia knows this and is fighting the war on many global fronts in many different ways. Ukraine is a small but bloody part of the global conflict.

Posted by: Golddigger | Aug 20 2023 16:17 utc | 77

JDT@73
John and Masha have posted quite a few videos from the Donbas. There is one from about a year ago with a resident of Mariupol explaining the locals feelings about the SMO and what happened in 2014 that is particularly memorable.

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 20 2023 16:19 utc | 78

Posted by: Wondrous | Aug 20 2023 15:51 utc | 59
> I am also a committed Westphalian , generally believing in sovereign and inviolable borders , but only when based on history or reason.
Hm, can’t recall any sovereign country with that name, West-phallia…
OTOH, it is quite a fitting name for the collective West actually.

Posted by: hopehely | Aug 20 2023 16:20 utc | 79

Yesterday there was a comment based on Telegram that even mainstream media in US like NYT now admit Ukraine lost 500 000 KIA in this war. Telegram source says this. Looking at NYT, it is claimed the number is the total loss of life in this conflict with russia having main losses.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html
Well, well Youtube presented me another report wich is very in favour of Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GmJPXcRNwc
Ukrainins broke trough the first defensive line (Ahm did they?…) And now with russia having no more troops to defend the main defense line…. Ahm… yes, crimea is in reach only a question of…
Well well, 6 days left for EU having harder Internet censoring… guess I know why.

Posted by: Johnny | Aug 20 2023 16:21 utc | 80

Posted by: Catilina | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 70
Almost 10 000 Polish soldiers died in Ukraine in a year and a half.
The Polish edition “Mysl Polska” has published shocking statistics related to the participation of Polish citizens in the conflict in Ukraine. According to the publication, over the past year and a half, about 10 thousand Poles have died on Ukrainian territory.
Despite the fact that most of them are referred to as volunteers and mercenaries, the real picture may be different. Most of the dead, according to the source, are actually Polish regular soldiers and reservists. They were sent to the territory of Ukraine under the legend of “volunteers”.
If we consider that the total strength of the Polish army is approximately 160 thousand people, of which 60 thousand are ground forces, then the losses are really serious. Such a high level of losses may cause certain socio-political consequences in Poland, especially in the context of relations with Ukraine.
Подробнее на: https://avia-pro.net/news/10-tysyach-polskih-voennosluzhashchih-pogibli-na-ukraine-za-poltora-goda

Posted by: On the roof | Aug 20 2023 16:23 utc | 81

@ Catilina | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 70
Translation: The Polish publication Mysl Polska has published shocking statistics related to the participation of Polish citizens in the conflict in Ukraine. According to the publication, over the past year and a half, about 10 thousand Poles have died on Ukrainian territory.
If true that is indeed a shocking number.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 20 2023 16:27 utc | 82

The “dedollarisation” takes place already. Kaddafi and Saddam Hussein paid with their lives trying to trade in different ways than using dollar. Today this is being the “new” normal. Almost. Some large countries conduct trade without the mighty dollar, especially being the “petro” one.
The plane hit at the Russian tarmac recently cost as a whole $40 million, some say.
But I never read, so far, how big losses for USA are associated with the present level of dollar dropping?

Posted by: LogosApplied | Aug 20 2023 16:31 utc | 83

Posted by: On the roof | Aug 20 2023 16:23 utc | 81

Almost 10 000 Polish soldiers died in Ukraine in a year and a half.

Would be interesting to add to that the wounded if we new the ratio.
3:1 ? *almost* 40K Poles out of commission.
Unless only *almost* 10K Poles were ever sent and all of them died (sanity check!).

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 20 2023 16:31 utc | 84

I see people are getting excited about the Ukr’s now being at the V-weapons stage of their war effort.
Every intermittent strike will be a catastrophe for which the Kremlins should be lambasted every civilian death gets dumped on Putin’s door, rather than blaming the ones who did it. Oh and the solution to that is nuke to Balts, Poland, Brussels, London, New York or whomever…
Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 68

At the “V-weapons stage” the Nazis were firmly on the backfoot and retreating everywhere, with a multimillion-men Red Army rolling them up across the continent.
Do you see the current Nazis being rolled up across the continent? I don’t. All I see is Russians getting killed, on both sides, and now inside Russia too. In fact, aside from Kuypansk, the war is entirely inside Russia right now…

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:33 utc | 85

Well I guess we now know what the current spin is….”Russia is weak because they wont do a BigArrow offensive” & “Russia is weak ‘cause they cannot keep the population 100% safe from Ukrainian attacks”
——And THAT’s it! That is all they got….
Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 20 2023 14:44 utc | 25

Yes, no big-arrow moves while your big cities and strategic assets are attacked daily indeed indicates weakness.
In case you haven’t noticed, this isn’t 1944-45 when the Nazis were retreating and the Red Army was advancing rapidly.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:35 utc | 86

s Africa closer to the West today than it was before the SMO?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:03 utc | 66
Define this term: closer
And the period: before the SMO

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 20 2023 16:35 utc | 87

There is no need for the Russians to chase the enemy. It just comes to you. All the Russians had to do was/is to identify where the AFU is and defend as needed to neutralize the advancing enemy. This approach has been beneficial in both Troops and equipment.
Posted by: young | Aug 20 2023 14:33 utc | 21

Yes, the enemy is coming at you. So far all the way to Novgorod, Saratov and beyond Moscow. Soon in Siberia too…

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:41 utc | 88

But I never read, so far, how big losses for USA are associated with the present level of dollar dropping?
Posted by: LogosApplied | Aug 20 2023 16:31 utc | 83
###########
The losses are not just monetary, they are significant reductions to prestige and power projection, which one could argue is all the Empire of Lies has now that it is well known that their military might is more Hollywood mythology than battlefield reality.
De-dollarization is the “long game” for the non-Western world. The pinpricks and terrorist strikes endured by Russia at this time are relatively unimportant considering the bigger effort to bring the West to self-accountability. De-dollarization will limit future color revolutions, and bio labs, definitely making it difficult to promote degeneracy to children and further erode families.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:42 utc | 89

May you copiumista barflies forgive my concern trolling but the price of a Tu-22M3 Strategic Bomber is around US $ 40 Million
Posted by: CommiesGoFckY | Aug 20 2023 15:00 utc | 34

It isn’t even $40M, it’s effectively priceless. Nobody is making these anymore, not will be for another several years even if Putin orders it.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:42 utc | 90

Posted by: Charles M | Aug 20 2023 14:28 utc | 19

Blah blah blah why isn’t Russia beating us to a pulp so we can cry louder for West’s intervention blah blah blah.

Thank you for your ‘concern’.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 20 2023 16:44 utc | 91

This war isn’t about Ukraine winning, it’s about Russia losing. The West will continue to send just enough to ensure a stalemate, which results in Russia’s slow destruction. Which is going fairly well.
The West doesn’t want to give Ukraine too much, as that would cause Russia to retreat, which would be the worst case scenario for the West. The West also doesn’t want to give Ukraine too little, as that would result in Russia gaining ground. The best case scenario for the West is a very long stalemate, with Russia slowly but surely losing any kind of military material they have left, with them being unable to rebuild it due to western sanctions and general economic decline.
This war is about the first time NATO has been effective, and the West did it without losing a single western life, without losing a single piece of western infrastructure, and at TRULY minimal financial costs.
Y’all really don’t see that?

Posted by: Pieter | Aug 20 2023 16:44 utc | 92

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 20 2023 16:05 utc | 67
Vlad is a multitasking & multifunktional manager (leader)
– Space Luna manager
captain vladimir Picard from Star Trek Roscosmos
– SMO field commander
Vladimir von Manstein sickle donbass cut since 18 months
– Grain manager
– NS 1&2 manager
– Minsk 1+2 manager
– Investment manager 300bm usd on western partners accounts
…,,,,…..
– 5D Chessmaster
– 5D. Judomaster

Posted by: tesla | Aug 20 2023 16:47 utc | 93

tesla | Aug 20 2023 15:30 utc | 48
*** Another SMO failed!
The Special Moon Operation crashed badly
5D Master of desaster
The money would be better invested into drone protection***
Not well informed, are you?
Fact is, that rocket was shot down by the Moonpig air defence system.
It’s the Israelis’ fault, they sent them up there and when their spacecraft crashed the tardigrades mutated and declared UDI from earth, but of course the mass-media isn’t going to tell you that.
If the Indian moon landing succeeds it will be because they’ve cunningly disguised it as a home delivery of curry, with naan bread and popadoms.

Posted by: Cynic | Aug 20 2023 16:47 utc | 94

So you’re admitting Ukrainian lives are worthless and expendable to the West. Good argument.
“To the last Ukrainian.. Slava Ukrainiiii”

Posted by: Martian Surface | Aug 20 2023 16:48 utc | 95

@53 unimperator
Re: private arm industries
And why would they risk expanding when russia is portrayed as such an incompetent force on the verge of collapse?
And why do they think that? It’s the western propaganda and russias smo creeping tactics. Thr governments won’t sign the contracts so they believe it too.
They can’t figure out the russian strategy. Most here can’t either it seems, objectively speaking russia completely controls the narrative of imminent defeat, but yet it never quite happens. It might never happen for a long time and by the time they understand russia is fighting a generational existential war they’ll have lost years of time and might be mired in economic crisis and unable to ramp up.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 20 2023 16:48 utc | 96

@ Charles M. | Aug 20 2023 16:07 utc | 69
“When exposed, snivel your way out” isn’t the most convincing of strategies.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2023 16:49 utc | 97

Do you see the current Nazis being rolled up across the continent? I don’t. All I see is Russians getting killed, on both sides, and now inside Russia too. In fact, aside from Kuypansk, the war is entirely inside Russia right now…
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:33 utc | 85
No, no, shadowbanned. Comparing the resolve and will to win of Putin’s Russia to the Soviet Union under Joseph V Stalin is totally appropriate…

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 20 2023 16:49 utc | 98

Ukrainian lives aren’t worthless, EVERY human life has value. But in the context of geopolitics, yes absolutely. Given that Ukraine is not part of NATO, the EU, or even allied in any other way with the west, we really aren’t valuing their lives.
If we did, we would force Russia’s to retreat by providing substantial aid. But again, that runs counter to our objective to destabilize and destroy one of our TWO adversaries. A stalemate where it costs us nothing to support this war, while Russia is losing military equipment they cannot replace is the best case scenario for us.

Posted by: Pieter | Aug 20 2023 16:52 utc | 99

It isn’t even $40M, it’s effectively priceless. Nobody is making these anymore, not will be for another several years even if Putin orders it.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 20 2023 16:42 utc | 90
###########
I had a good laugh over your comment, SB.
Yeah, Russia is running out of weapons and only has certain weapons for certain tasks, and can only fight one way, never adapting tactics to their resources. 🤣
That narrative is lifted directly from the Western press 12 months ago. Thank you for giving us a “year in review” back to more hopeful times when Biden didn’t fall over so much and could remember the day of the week.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2023 16:52 utc | 100