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August 13, 2023

Ukraine Open Thread 2023-192

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on August 13, 2023 at 12:43 UTC | Permalink

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Ukraine considering measures against ‘pro-Russia’ Israel – media

"Ukraine is considering taking steps against Israel in retaliation for its failure to show enough support, the Kyiv Post [formerly known as the Kiev Post] newspaper has reported, citing an anonymous security source."

Ukraine is considering taking steps against Israel in retaliation for its failure to show enough support, the Kyiv Post [formerly known as the Kiev Post] newspaper has reported, citing an anonymous security source.

The English-language diaspora journal claims that among the measures allegedly under consideration is the expulsion of Israel from high-level meetings, about Ukraine, at the US Air Force Base at Ramstein, Germany, due to fears the Middle Eastern state may leak information to Russia.

On Thursday, the Kyiv Post quoted an unnamed staffer from Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council as saying that the “Israeli authorities never provided any real help.”

According to the media outlet, officials in Kiev are unhappy about what they see as the Jewish state’s “unfriendly actions towards Ukraine and pro-Russian position on the international arena.”

In addition, the unnamed Ukrainian security staffer told the Post that there is a “real danger” that information discussed with Israel at the Ramstein meetings “will probably fall into the possession of the aggressor state.”

Known officially as the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, the regular gatherings at the air base in Germany see representatives from 30 NATO members and 24 other countries coordinate military aid donations to Kiev.

In addition to having Israel banned from the Ramstein meetings, Ukraine may nullify the visa-free regime with the Middle Eastern state in the coming weeks, with the foreign ministry currently preparing a submission to the Cabinet of Ministers, the newspaper added.

Also this week, Ukrainian Ambassador to Israel Yevgeny Kornichuk claimed that approximately 10% of Ukrainian visitors find themselves deported from Israel without any explanation. The diplomat also slammed the country’s latest decision to terminate health-insurance benefits for Ukrainian refugees in Israel.

In June, Ukraine’s Embassy in Tel Aviv posted a statement on its Facebook account, accusing the host country of “complete inaction in providing Ukraine with defensive assistance.” The diplomats insisted that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was coming up with “entirely fictional and speculative assumptions” to justify the lack of such deliveries to Kiev.

Ukraine has on multiple occasions requested Israel’s Iron Dome air defense system, with the latter rejecting the plea. Netanyahu’s government cited, among other things, concerns that the technology could end up in the hands of Iranians should it be transferred to Ukraine.

Kiev’s representatives went on to claim that the “current Israeli government has chosen the path of close cooperation with Russia,” citing the agreement to establish a branch office of the Russian consulate in West Jerusalem, and a booming trade between the two.

“In reality, on the ground, the so-called ‘neutrality’ of the Israeli government should be viewed as a clear pro-Russian position,” the embassy’s statement concluded at the time.

Posted by: Honoh | Aug 13 2023 13:09 utc | 1

Politics sure does make strange bedfellows ...

Posted by: Dogtired | Aug 13 2023 13:35 utc | 2

Re: Posted by: Honoh | Aug 13 2023 13:09 utc | 1

IMO, there’s not a “Pro-Russia” Israel. Israel does what it’s always done… “what’s in it for me?” Israel have no loyalties, only its own. Stockpiles of weapon’s & ammunition have been sent from Israel via U.S. cover already. This is a PR to paint them “as different” or they’re (US/EU) genuinely afraid of them double dipping with intel. Either way, it’s a bad look for Israel. In any case, double dealing is hardly new for them.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 13 2023 13:47 utc | 3

Posted by: Honoh | Aug 13 2023 13:09 utc | 1
The only involvement that I've seen from Israel is humanitarian aid to Jews in Ukraine, and Israeli Prime Minister Bennett acting as a neutral party carrying messages between Zelenski and Putin.

Ukraine turning on the neutral party for not actively supporting Ukraine shows desperation-driven stupidity. It forces their allies to negotiate with Russia directly, which ends up cutting Ukraine out of the negotiations.

Posted by: barstool | Aug 13 2023 13:54 utc | 4

I read here before (I think) that Israel needs to play a care game with Russia vis avis its security interests in Lebanon and particularly Syria. I believe it expressed concern when US munition stocks located in Israel were depleted to supply Ukraine as they were originally intended to support Israel in extremis. But maybe smoke and mirrors. Overall, Israel has enough enemies without making Russia one too. IMHO. But who knows what is the deal if any that has been done between Israel and Russia?

Posted by: marcjf | Aug 13 2023 14:03 utc | 5

I know a lot of Russians Jews emigrated to Israel in the 90’s. So perhaps that might be a factor, but I also agree it’s a sign of Ukrainian’s growing desperation. Demanding unquestioning loyalty of one’s own and one’s allies is a sure sign that the later stages of a conflict’s cycle have been reached.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 13 2023 14:06 utc | 6

ROFL. Who the hell does Ukraine think it is imposing 'restrictions' on Israel. For God's sake, Ukraine is a bankrupt country. It is a brutal nazi dictatorship through and through. It has nothing to offer any country except hate, malice and intolerance. Israel is right to remain neutral. Bibi has serious problems of his own in Israel with the country close to a civil war and citizens (including the Chief of Police of Tel Aviv) are out demonstrating in huge numbers against Government corruption, in particular Bibi's. Why should they help some tin pot nazi Dictator? No reason at all.

If the collective West were not in such a deep hatred and vitriolic malice towards Russia, they would see that not only Zelensky but Kuleba, Reznikov, Yermak and the rest of the Cabinet are not elected politicians but Z's mates from TV. They have absolutely no diplomatic skills, in fact, have no understanding of Diplomacy at all. They speak in terms of hatred about anyone or country that speaks out against them. They are totally unacceptable people to do any kind of business with. The trouble is, the collective West has built Z up to be such a deity Ukraine now believes it is the most important country believing it can 'save Europe's democracy'. I have often been appalled at what comes out of the mouths of this bunch of these people.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Aug 13 2023 14:07 utc | 7

Is "Military Summary @militarysummary", used to be "Dima", still doing fair video commenting? It is getting selective in item reported and adopting some west news media's practices.

Just getting curious, still subscribing it. But thinking about dropping it.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 8

If Russia can stop Ukraine. Why do they allow them to continue to press to the 1st defense lines? Russia needs to put an end to this advance on it's defenses. "Hope" is a powerful motivator. And as long as the Nazis have hope they will continue to die as they advance. 60,000 dead Nazis in 3 mo. but they gained 60km. So add it up! They have 1 million more meatbags @ the rate they are advancing with human wave tactics. They'll be in the Black sea by next year! The ground Russia can allow the battle of attrition to save Russian lives is very limited. You can't give up 60km every 3mo. even if it does cost the Nazis 60,000 dead. They have too many meatbags and Russia has too little backstop.
My math: Start with 1 mil men. Every 3mo. less 60k dead. That is "16" 3mo periods. But they seem to gain 60km per their efforts in that 3mo. If it continues at this rate they will gain. 240km in one year. And they have enough meatbags to go for 1.5 years. That will put the Nazis on the beach of the Black Sea in the end.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 9

A declassified document in the CIA’s Electronic Reading Room that I came across recently:

“Cold War Allies: The Origins of CIA’s Relationship with Ukrainian Nationalists”
Fitly Years of the CIA, 1998
Kevin C Ruffner
https://t.ly/rbgb0

Some excerpts:

Stefan Bandera was not a member of R-33, but was another personality — perhaps the personality of the Ukrainian emigre community — that had to be recognized. According to an OSS report of September 1945, Bandera had earned a fierce reputation for conducting a “reign of terror” during World War II. He led the largest faction of OUN (which split when the war broke out), and Andrey Melnik led the smaller. Both factions participated in terrorist activities against Polish officials before the war, and Ukrainian nationalists allied themselves with their Nazi “liberators” during the first days of Operation Barbarossa in 1941.

... The Soviets wanted Stefan Bandera. American intelligence officials recognized that his arrest would have quick and adverse effects on the future of US operations with the Ukrainians.

... CIA later informed the Immigration and Naturalization Service that it had concealed Stefan Bandera and other Ukrainians from the Soviets. “Luckily the [Soviet] attempt to locate these anti-Soviet Ukrainians was sabotaged by a few farsighted Americans who warned the persons concerned to go into hiding.” The Agency cited the Ukrainian resistance movement’s struggle against the Soviets and believed that “the main activities of the OUN in Ukraine cannot be considered detrimental to the United States.” By 1951, the Agency excused the illegal activities of OUN’s security branch in the name of Cold War necessity.”

... The sacrifices the Ukrainian agents and their American case officers made contributed to the eventual disintegration of the Soviet Union.

The last sentence is key. The “sacrifices” of the Ukrainian Nazis in collusion with the CIA contributed to the fall of the USSR. Fortunately, Russia will not allow a repeat.

Posted by: HeyHeyHey | Aug 13 2023 14:14 utc | 10

HeyHeyHey@10

More important, perhaps, than the OUN's guerrilla activities in the Soviet Union could be its activities in the diaspora where 'anti-communism' generally took the form of anti-trade unionism and, for example, struggle against Peace activists.
The meetings in Canada which have been shut down by Ukrainian partisan mobs are just the tip of an iceberg of anti-democratic activity emanating from fascist emigre groups supported by the government.

Anyway, thanks for the information.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2023 14:24 utc | 11

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 8 "Is "Military Summary @militarysummary"

Dima's detailed map drawing does show things that I have not found elsewhere.

The problem Dima along with a lot of the others is that they do say some insightful things along with a lot of other stuff. You do have to wade though a lot of noise to get to it.

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 13 2023 14:26 utc | 12

Young Female Ukrainians in the U$
https://files.catbox.moe/yuui6b.mp4
They are never returning.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2023 14:28 utc | 13

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 8

No better or worse than the others, IMO, a bit Henny Pennyish but I think that’s to inject drama into the normal tactical cycle. For example a serious Ukrainian attack against Robotyne turned out to be two IFV’s and a platoon of infantry, I follow on YouTube leaving a two day delay, seems to iron out any analytical wrinkles.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 13 2023 14:33 utc | 14

ROFL. Who the hell does Ukraine think it is imposing 'restrictions' on Israel.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Aug 13 2023 14:07 utc | 7

Not like that, they're speakers for US. The offended sausage episode from Germany was not the only one. Schlitz was spanked by proxy and then he sent tanks and missiles. Now he's into drones, more and more drones for Ukr. He has to send some long range missiles too while he has time. The economy is already going down and soon they could lose some territory to Poland just because Vicky said so.

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2023 14:35 utc | 15

Good Berletic discussion underway right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ter2fImwRy4

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2023 14:37 utc | 16

Criticism of Israel by Ukraine can potentially drive a wedge btw the US and Ukraine.

It's odd.

I refer to the constant refrain of the US Congress that the USA and Israel maintain an "irrevocable bond".

Them's fightin' words...to those Senators and Representatives who prostrate themselves before Israel at every opportunity.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Aug 13 2023 14:42 utc | 17

@ bevin | Aug 13 2023 14:24 utc | 11:

The plot to break up the USSR via Ukraine parallels the plot to break up Russia via the same means today. But your point is well taken — Ukrainian influence is far reaching indeed.

Posted by: HeyHeyHey | Aug 13 2023 14:47 utc | 18

Col. (Ret.) D. McGregor's youtube channel is gone.

Posted by: Stefan v. | Aug 13 2023 14:54 utc | 19

"approximately 10% of Ukrainian visitors find themselves deported from Israel without any explanation"

If you choose to adorn yourself with tattoos of nazi icons, it will have a strange effect on how others choose to interact with you

Posted by: Rattus | Aug 13 2023 15:02 utc | 20

@ 9

War isn't a tabletop game, the Ukrainians have burned through their trained reserves and are already having difficulty fielding trained & motivated troops. The quality of new daftees is declining over time. And that "one million" is theoretical number.

Plus where do you get Ukr advances of 60 km? Particularly when the AFU is losing ground in the Lugansk/Kharkov area...

Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 13 2023 15:06 utc | 21

Stefan v. @ 19

McGregor's youtube channel is gone

My guess is they wouldn't dare, if they do the dictatorship will no longer be inverted but right side up. Are we there yet?

There are several parasite channels plus he guests on many, I never figured out which is the real one, if he even has one. Maybe someone can point to the real channel?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 13 2023 15:08 utc | 22

The colonel's site seems to be still there

https://www.youtube.com/@douglasmacgregorcolonel/videos

Posted by: Visitor | Aug 13 2023 15:09 utc | 23

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/75227

❗️BREAKING

❗️🇷🇺💥🇵🇼🇺🇦🏴‍☠️ On 13 August at about 6.40 a.m. Moscow time, the Black Sea Fleet patrol ship Vasily Bykov, which was carrying out shipping control monitoring, detected the bulk cargo ship Sukra Okan under the flag of Palau, which was on its way to the Ukrainian port of Izmail, in the south-western part of the Black Sea.

▪️ The captain of the bulk cargo ship did not respond to the request to stop for inspection for the carriage of prohibited goods.

▪️ The Russian warship opened warning fire from automatic small arms fire to forcefully stop the vessel.

▪️ In order to inspect the bulk cargo ship, a Ka-29 helicopter with a group of Russian servicemen was hoisted from the patrol ship Vasily Bykov.
▪️ Following radio conversations, the ship stopped its course and the boarding team landed on the bulk cargo ship.

▪️ After the work of the boarding team on board Sukra Okan was completed, the vessel continued its journey to the port of Izmail.

▪️ Black Sea Fleet ships continue patrolling in the designated areas.

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 13 2023 15:14 utc | 24

Russia is one of the leaders in the multipolar world movement. Many of the countries aligning with it tend to be against Israel. Russia's influence with those countries can help to reduce the risk of them going to war with Israel. That by itself would keep Israel from becoming an enemy of Russia by actively aligning with Ukraine.

Ukraine's governent's thought process that leads to "If you aren't my 'friend' who does what I tell you to do, then you are my enemy," is a symptom of psychosis, not just of individuals, but of the government itself.

Posted by: barstool | Aug 13 2023 15:16 utc | 25

How does it happen that Kiev forces can bomb Urozhainoye with JDAM munitions? Not the first time that I read such news from the southern counter-offensive front either. One might hope that Russia has an S-400 behind its lines, which should have plenty of range to interdict JDAM attacks? Or is the problem that Russia lacks AWACS capability?

Assuming Russia's intention is to win this war, why does Kiev even have functioning airports at this point?

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Aug 13 2023 15:17 utc | 26

"Ukraine is now the most heavily mined country on Earth and its army is suffering from a critical shortage of men and equipment able to clear the frontlines, the country’s defence minister has said, as soldiers spoke of heavy casualties in the engineering brigades."
Guardian 13 august

No recruits eh?

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 13 2023 15:23 utc | 27

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 9

Advancing over the same kilometer sixty times isn't the same as advancing 60 km. Russia is depleting the Ukrainian forces by holding the same ground against repeated suicide attacks.

Posted by: barstool | Aug 13 2023 15:27 utc | 28

@9 dferg

Russia is stopping ukraine. The areas ukraine conquered are filled with mines(and their cluster bomblets) with completely flattened villages. The ground is flat, and the trees are in lines between the fields. Their attack routes are narrow corridors cleared of mines. Basically the gained territories are very expensive to hold. Russia would suffer trying to readvance to them.

Secondly, once the rainy season sets in all attacks will be bogged down, literally. So the advance can't be linear as you hypothesize.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 13 2023 15:27 utc | 29

HeyHeyHey@18
You are right. The continuity is unerring- the German invasion of Ukraine and sponsorship of nationalism begins in 1918 and never really lets up. Ukraine was the primary goal of Barbarossa, for its resources but also because of the Intermarium idea of Pilsudki. Nothing has changed.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2023 15:35 utc | 30

"Ukraine is now the most heavily mined country on Earth ..." Guardian 13 august
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 13 2023 15:23 utc | 27

It would be correct to say that Russia is the most mined country. The war and the mines are in the new regions and old regions around borders, none inside Ukr. But since it's ok for Russia no one should complain about it in their name. The same with NS, they don't even talk about it anymore so now it's ok to blow up Russian pipes anywhere.

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2023 15:43 utc | 31

@26 ma laoshi

The reason the airports are functional is that Russia calculates that the cost of destroying them is too high. The airports can be made functional easily again and the planes and missles aren't.

Therefore the only attack them to get specific cargos.

It's a military decision.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 13 2023 15:48 utc | 32

Col. MacGregor's own website, has links to any interviews he does:

https://futuredefensevisions.blogspot.com/

There are many fake YouTube channels which just post his content without permission, usually with audio only and a static background like a beach scene.

-----------------------------

"Ukraine now prepares for Fall/Winter Offensive" - headline I saw - lol, they never stop with the propaganda.

-----------------------------

#9 is deeply concerned. Deeply deeply concerned. So concerned that he devizes new mathematical formulae to bolster his science based position.

Posted by: FUBAR111111 | Aug 13 2023 15:50 utc | 33

It would be correct to say that Russia is the most mined country. The war and the mines are in the new regions and old regions around borders, none inside Ukr. But since it's ok for Russia no one should complain about it in their name. The same with NS, they don't even talk about it anymore so now it's ok to blow up Russian pipes anywhere.

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2023 15:43 utc | 31

Indeed. The only "war in Ukraine" now is whatever is happening around Kupyansk and the occasional long-range drone/missile strikes.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 15:55 utc | 34

I know a lot of Russians Jews emigrated to Israel in the 90’s. So perhaps that might be a factor, but I also agree it’s a sign of Ukrainian’s growing desperation. Demanding unquestioning loyalty of one’s own and one’s allies is a sure sign that the later stages of a conflict’s cycle have been reached.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 13 2023 14:06 utc | 6

Russian Jews in Israel are surprisingly (or perhaps not so much) anti-Russian.

But in general, the Jewish reaction to the whole Ukraine issue is baffling. It looks like many of them genuinely don't know the history, because you would think that they would be screaming for Putin to erase the Banderites off the face of the planet more than even the most passionate Russian patriots are. But no. From anecdotal personal experience, they indeed don't know the history -- they know about the concentration camps the Germans ran, but not about the massacres the OUN and UPA committed. The pre-WWII massacres done by Ukrainian nationalists (it didn't start with the Operation Barbarossa, the roots are much deeper) are also memory-holed.

Meanwhile the political leadership does not know the history, but it is playing the usual realpolitik games, in which what should be unthinkable alliances are perfectly normal.

P.S. It is to be noted that Israel ran a decades-long campaign of hunting down German Nazis all over the world in order to punish them for their role in the Holocaust. But did they do the same for Ukrainian Nazis (or the Baltic and Romanian ones), who were no less active participants and are responsible for the deaths of huge numbers of Jews? I am not aware. The KGB assassinated Bandera, and that was it. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Ukrainian Nazis emigrated to the US and Canada, where no German Nazis were hunted either -- that effort seems to have been limited to Latin America, with NATO countries apparently off-limits...

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:00 utc | 35

There are many fake YouTube channels which just post his content without permission, usually with audio only and a static background like a beach scene.

Posted by: FUBAR111111 | Aug 13 2023 15:50 utc | 33

#########

That is the reality of being a public figure in 2023. I find information restriction to be one of the most detrimental things that humans do. If someone is talking publicly about a subject, I want to be able to access it, and lots of people reposting is the way that information can get the most reach.

Are those channels making some money off of the videos? Perhaps, but I can't see the Ukraine war discussion generating a lot of commercial intent, and so advertisers are less likely to allocate much money there.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 13 2023 16:04 utc | 36

How does it happen that Kiev forces can bomb Urozhainoye with JDAM munitions? Not the first time that I read such news from the southern counter-offensive front either. One might hope that Russia has an S-400 behind its lines, which should have plenty of range to interdict JDAM attacks? Or is the problem that Russia lacks AWACS capability?

Assuming Russia's intention is to win this war, why does Kiev even have functioning airports at this point?

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Aug 13 2023 15:17 utc | 26

Good questions. It was my first reaction too. JDAMs have been seen only on a handful of occasions. Maybe they managed to time it right with an opening of a hole in Russian AD coverage. But still, that just should not be happening.

If they fly low to avoid radar detection, they can't get any range on the JDAMs. Then if they get up to toss the JDAMs, they should be easy prey for Russian AD. There just should be no situation in which this is not a one-way suicide mission.

And yes, how Ukraine still has planes is an absolute scandal.

As is the fact that tens, even hundreds of billions were spent on building megayachts for oligarchs, but not a single new AWACS plane entered service since the USSR collapsed. They didn't invest in Global Hawk-type drones either, which would have been cheaper and easier to scale up.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:04 utc | 37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ter2fImwRy4

Newe Atlas live stream has finished, about 100 minutes. New Atlas haters, suck it up. Going to listen to it today, time well spent, while doing yard work.

Gets together with Scott from Kalibrated, another excellent analysis channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@Kalibratedwithscott

Scott hs been pod-casting about Ukraine etc for almost 10 years I think, but since I don't listen to much podcasts I only accidentally discovered his YT channel a while back. Very good analysis every episode.

from 2 weeks ago, still very good, last hour is superb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q0e9osN-D0

starts with Ukraine but covers all global issues, in detail, and very accurately - highly recommended for the last hour or so, stands alone as one of the best summaries of the whole situation you can find.

Not news for most here, but if watched by those who don't know all the background, will be revelatory. A couple guys at work I sent this link to were rendered stunned after comparing this to Western MSM propaganda reports.

Posted by: FUBAR111111 | Aug 13 2023 16:04 utc | 38

If Russia can stop Ukraine. Why do they allow them to continue to press to the 1st defense lines? Russia needs to put an end to this advance on it's defenses. "Hope" is a powerful motivator. And as long as the Nazis have hope they will continue to die as they advance.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 9

I strongly disagree with the way the SMO has been conducted, but once the moment of opportunity was missed last year, and once only an inadequate mobilization was carried out, it is what it is now and the most has to be done with the available means.

And that translates into attrition warfare and playing active defense for the time being.

From that point of view, the worst that can happen is for UA to give up the offensive, turtle up in defense, and focus entirely on acquiring long-range strike capabilities and terrorism. Then RU will have to go on the attack, and it will be costly.

So there is logic in giving up one village every couple weeks, just to keep them thinking they have a chance, and prevent that retreat into deep defense.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:09 utc | 39

Indeed. The only "war in Ukraine" now is whatever is happening around Kupyansk and the occasional long-range drone/missile strikes.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 15:55 utc | 34

And just now a kamikaze drone hit an apartment block in Belgorod...

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:16 utc | 40

Simon Wiesenthal a respected hero of mine …

The Ukrainians from Galicia and Western Ukraine were pushed back by the Red Army into the protection of Western allied forces … were accepted as war refugees by the West, especially the U.S. and Canada.

Holocaust Amnesia: The Ukrainian Diaspora and the Genocide of the Jews
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/846190/pdf

Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe
German Yearbook of Contemporary History

Posted by: Oui | Aug 13 2023 16:17 utc | 41

Posted by: rk | Aug 13 2023 15:43 utc | 31
> It would be correct to say that Russia is the most mined country.
> The war and the mines are in the new regions and old regions around borders, none inside Ukr.
For Guardian, which is a British propaganda outlet, those regions are part of Ukraine.
Now if RT said the same thing, your remark would be correct of course.
There are no neutrals in this moving train.

Posted by: hopehely | Aug 13 2023 16:23 utc | 42

@21

https://liveuamap.com/
You can see the Nazi advance since the "big" offensive. Maybe they have burnt through a lot of notable troops. But they are still advancing where they put the pressure on. Not a cheerleader for the nazis. But I don't bury my head in the sand an expose my backside either.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 16:27 utc | 43

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 9

Advancing over the same kilometer sixty times isn't the same as advancing 60 km.
Posted by: barstool | Aug 13 2023 15:27 utc | 28

Had a good chuckle over that line. Thanks for alleviating the "concern" with some humour.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Aug 13 2023 16:29 utc | 44

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:00 utc | 35
> Russian Jews in Israel are surprisingly (or perhaps not so much) anti-Russian.
Russian Jews in Israel are Israeli Jews.
Israelis are pro-Western and pro-US.
The West and the US are anti-Russian.
Hence, Russian Jews are anti-Russian too.
They are good team players and loyal American allies.

Posted by: hopehely | Aug 13 2023 16:34 utc | 45

Re: Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:09 utc | 39

And that translates into attrition warfare and playing active defense for the time being.

From that point of view, the worst that can happen is for UA to give up the offensive, turtle up in defense, and focus entirely on acquiring long-range strike capabilities and terrorism. Then RU will have to go on the attack, and it will be costly.

So there is logic in giving up one village every couple weeks, just to keep them thinking they have a chance, and prevent that retreat into deep defense.

Despite what people around here say about an imminent Ukrainian collapse - I think it's fair to assume there will be no big Russian advance for the next 8+ months - which takes us into mid-April 2024 - after the Russian Presidential Election.

Given how long in relation to the Russian Presidential Election it will take to mobilize forces and get a Russian offensive going - we are probably looking at May/June 2024 before any significant Russian advances - so look forward to another 9-10 months of "attrition warfare".

Posted by: Julian | Aug 13 2023 16:36 utc | 46

Young Female Ukrainians in the U$
https://files.catbox.moe/yuui6b.mp4
They are never returning.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2023 14:28 utc | 13

Looks like they may be being recruited for the Human Trafficking Meat Grinder.
Good luck to them.

Posted by: Jerr | Aug 13 2023 16:39 utc | 47

#1
Since Israel is not supporting Zelensky, shouldn't he claim Israel is antisemitic?

I think that meme would TREND amongst Ukr supporters.

Propaganda doesn't have to be true, or even make any sense...

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 13 2023 16:43 utc | 48


Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:09 utc | 39

So there is logic in giving up one village every couple weeks, just to keep them thinking they have a chance, and prevent that retreat into deep defense".

I don't believe the Nazis can shell up and go into a defensive game. The West will not allow it and the people of Ukraine would not be pleased with no results of getting back Donbass and Crimea. The war for the Nazis is to take back territory. And a village every other week or so will soon be villages in the Crimea. To me, either Russia can stop the advance or they can't. My Post was the try and look at the advance vs the meatbag loses. And it seemed to me that the manpower Ukraine has today. That they can attrit all the way to the Crimea. Maybe, not maybe I'm sure Russia has a Plan. But from the outside looking in from my tiny viewer. I don't see the the logic of giving them anything but the business side of an AK.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 49

Russians in Crimea and Donbass living in fear of Ukrainian drone and missile strikes, meanwhile beaches in Odessa are open and full of revelers.

Posted by: bored | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 50

Holocaust Amnesia: The Ukrainian Diaspora and the Genocide of the Jews https://muse.jhu.edu/article/846190/pdf

Posted by: Oui | Aug 13 2023 16:17 utc | 41

An important point here -- they indeed made a serious effort to memory-hole their role in the Holocaust, and have succeeded. I don't think the Banderites in Canada and the US are anti-Jewish -- after all, most of the people they work together with are of Jewish ancestry. Modern Banderites in Ukraine itself also are on an openly genocidal path towards Russians, but you don't see all that much anti-Jewish rhetoric. Anti-Semitism is certainly there in the underground, but currently Nazism has largely morphed from anti-Jewish into anti-Russian (of course, that immediately open the question what the real relative balance of those things was 80 years ago versus what the official narrative tells us).

And that might explain why the state of Israel is not threatening to nuke Lvov as it should have been for the last 20 years.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:49 utc | 51

I don't believe the Nazis can shell up and go into a defensive game. The West will not allow it and the people of Ukraine would not be pleased with no results of getting back Donbass and Crimea. The war for the Nazis is to take back territory. And a village every other week or so will soon be villages in the Crimea. To me, either Russia can stop the advance or they can't. My Post was the try and look at the advance vs the meatbag loses. And it seemed to me that the manpower Ukraine has today. That they can attrit all the way to the Crimea. Maybe, not maybe I'm sure Russia has a Plan. But from the outside looking in from my tiny viewer. I don't see the the logic of giving them anything but the business side of an AK.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 49

That is correct in principle, but at the moment the Ukronazis don't have the reserves to go to Crimea at this rate of advance. They will be fully exhausted at the first fortified defensive line.

And then comes to crucial moment -- will RU go on the offensive, or will Putin betray the country once again, as he did so many times in the past, and allow them the time to put together yet another, even better prepared, army?

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:52 utc | 52

Posted by: bored | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 50
> Russians in Crimea and Donbass living in fear of Ukrainian drone and missile strikes, meanwhile beaches in Odessa are open and full of revelers.
Russians in Crimea and Donbas are not living in fear. They go to beaches too.

Posted by: hopehely | Aug 13 2023 16:54 utc | 53

The final stage of the AFU counter-offensive (began June 4th) would be RU taking Zaporozhye.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 13 2023 16:55 utc | 54

Drones hitting the beach? Why worry? Now if the Ukies figured out a way to load them with "Bouncing Betty's" that would be a catastrophe.

Posted by: Morongobill | Aug 13 2023 17:01 utc | 55

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 13 2023 14:28 utc |

>Young Female Ukrainians in the U$
https://files.catbox.moe/yuui6b.mp4
They are never returning.

The black guy speaks good Ukrainian. Probably African who studied at university in Ukraine. Then the girls reply in Russian. He observes they are from the east of Ukraine. So yes, they will probably never return to Ukraine or Russia. It's the western Ukrainians who are strongly attached to Ukraine. Those from Russian speaking Soviet cities have weak attachments.

Posted by: Revelo | Aug 13 2023 17:04 utc | 56

barstool | Aug 13 2023 15:27 utc | 28

Advancing over the same kilometer sixty times isn't the same as advancing 60 km".

As I see the map. From where the "big" offense started in June to where it is today. Is not 1km. If that where the case in fact I would not had any concerns and my Post would not have appeared to be ridiculed. But the fact of the matter is the Nazis are advancing at the cost of thousands of dead "volunteers". But thousands of dead when you have a million meatbags are not of any concern to Kiev and the West. But I exposed my head to be whacked because I don't bury it in the sand. I'm just trying to get some idea why if Russia has such a great advantage, they give up any land, even 1km? They are going the wrong way be anyone's measure. The goal, I thought was to secure the territory the people of Russia and Donbass that is written into the Russian Constitution. And to push the Naizs back to where they can not bomb and kill innocent Russian civilians. To let the Nazis push pasted your defenses does not seem to me to be the right solution. But I'm not a invited to the meeting of the Russian MOD. So I just come here for my ignorance and to be ridiculed. But at least I'm welcome and thank you for obliging me.


Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 17:10 utc | 57

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2023 15:35 utc | 30
«Ukraine was the primary goal of Barbarossa, for its resources but also because of the Intermarium idea of Pilsudki. Nothing has changed.»

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenia
«In what in 1938 the French and Spanish press identified as "troublemaking" by the National Socialist government of Germany, there were calls in the German press for the independence of a greater Ukraine, which would include Ruthenia, parts of Hungary, the Polish Southeast including Lvov, the Crimea, and Ukraine, including Kyiv and Kharkiv.»

That was "only" 85 years ago, and geopolitical issues are pretty long term.

Posted by: Blissex | Aug 13 2023 17:13 utc | 58

Posted by: bored | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 50
Russians in Crimea and Donbass living in fear of Ukrainian drone and missile strikes, meanwhile beaches in Odessa are open and full of revelers".

And that, my friend is it, in a nutshell!

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 17:13 utc | 59

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:52 utc | 52
or will Putin betray the country once again, as he did so many times in the past, and allow them the time to put together yet another, even better prepared, army"?

And I guess deep down this is my fear.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 17:18 utc | 60

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:09 utc | 39

>So there is logic in giving up one village every couple weeks, just to keep them thinking they have a chance, and prevent that retreat into deep defense".

For once,shadowbanned talking sense instead of being SBU/CIA/MI6 tool. In addition to giving up villages in some areas, Russians will probably take lightly defended villages in other areas, because of all the idiots who think winning wars is about gaining territory. Ukraine can't afford to let those idiots think it is losing, so it will be forced to respond, and thus take losses, and thus its army will slowly but surely be exterminated. This process will continue for another year. Europe will be pinched economically and bored without being frightened by the seemingly endless war in far away eastern Ukraine, and tire of economically supporting Ukraine. When the money supply stops is when Ukraine collapses. Money is more important than weapons at this point.

The real question is what to do after the collapse. Because he is an SBU/CIA/MI6 tool, shadowbanned urges Russian advance beyond the 4 southeast Oblasts (plus Crimea) that Russia currently claims. Far wiser would be for Russia to focus on a peace treaty that bans Ukraine from ever having any military whatsoever and permits Russian invasion if Ukraine ever violates this ban. Then leave Ukraine alone in its bankruptcy to contemplate what a disaster this war was.

Posted by: Revelo | Aug 13 2023 17:23 utc | 61

Its seems as though the US trained Ukraine to lose the counteroffensive. The plan needed massive air and artillery support, Ukraine has neither. I think the US wants this war wrapped up this fall so it will be forgotten by next falls election. And its not good for MIC business having f16s shot down quick and lots of abrams tanks as burning metal garbage cans.

Posted by: Cyclingnut | Aug 13 2023 17:31 utc | 62

Posted by: bored | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 50
Russians in Crimea and Donbass living in fear of Ukrainian drone and missile strikes, meanwhile beaches in Odessa are open and full of revelers".

And that, my friend is it, in a nutshell!

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 17:13 utc | 59

Must be a recent development, then. Last year, Ukraine had Odessa's beaches mined because they were afraid of a Russian invasion.

Posted by: Martina | Aug 13 2023 17:33 utc | 63

In response to bored@50,

An expected disparity when only one side specifically targets civilian targets.

Posted by: Skiffer | Aug 13 2023 17:39 utc | 64

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 17:10 utc | 57

"The goal, I thought was to secure the territory the people of Russia and Donbass that is written into the Russian Constitution. And to push the Naizs back to where they can not bomb and kill innocent Russian civilians."

You thought wrong. The stated goal was to de-nazify and de-militarise the Ukraine.

But don't let being wrong stop you from further anti-Russian propaganda, if you're being paid for it. Everybody has to make a living.

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Aug 13 2023 17:43 utc | 65

@ 52.

Better prepared Ukr army? Lol wut?!

A bunch of latter-day volksgrenadier & volkstrum barrel-scrapeings. Are not an adequate replacement for professional soldiers & trained reserves in their prime years. What kind of manpower reserves do you think Ukraine has at this point?

As for the endless "doomsaying". All I can say is, you must've "fun" during the Chechen Wars and the Georgia War in 08.

After all the Kremlin betrayed you personally by not killing every Chechen or occupying Georgia with an iron-fist right?

Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 13 2023 17:52 utc | 66

@shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:09 utc | 39

>>So there is logic in giving up one village every couple weeks
>>just to keep them thinking they have a chance
Not sure this is so deliberate. Russia isn't so much giving up villages, as giving up ruins--once all the available cover has been destroyed, you'd be taking unacceptable losses if you stick around in the same positions. Similar if the forces rushing you are just too numerous, then it's better to retreat for a while and let the enemy chase you through your artillery fire.

Ukies are not infinite, especially when it comes to young, healthy, and trained ones. Nor is their equipment. Kiev behaving as if these realities can be ignored, as if their sponsors can be begged indefinitely for more more more, is desperate short-termism, and creates all kinds of fissures between Kiev and their backers.

It's a great boon for Russia that time and again, the Ukies are forced politically to defend every inch of indefensible positions, and assault unassailable ones. Moscow seems to have committed to grinding up a serious part of the Banderite manpool and the NATO arsenal; both of these take time.

It's nice and well to wish for a (much) larger mobilization. But was Russia in a position to retrain say 500,000+ reservists all at once? Especially given that so many things have changed since the Georgia let alone the Afghan wars, so that this training needs to be extensive. And what would a hypothetical 1m army be fighting with? Not sure how much bigger forces Russia could supply in high-intensity combat beyond what they currently have in the field, at least before production is ramped up further.

Ignore such issues of sustainment, and you'd be repeating a lot of Ukraine's mistakes which Russia currently avoids. Remember, the Dark Throne has put its cards on the table: it wants Russia's "strategic defeat". Ukraine has been written off and sacrificed to bring this about. So the West would like nothing better than Moscow's Pyrrhic victory, which leaves Russia impoverished and exhausted; some balancing act is in order. Admittedly, these are mostly what I've picked up from Simplicius's writings, but his arguments seem sound.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Aug 13 2023 17:57 utc | 67

Russians in Crimea and Donbass living in fear of Ukrainian drone and missile strikes, meanwhile beaches in Odessa are open and full of revelers.

Posted by: bored | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 50

Well, there might be swimmers in Odessa beach, but you can bet there are also friendly bald men with eagle and swastika tatoos persuading eager sun bathers to jump in unmarked vans.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 13 2023 17:59 utc | 68

Posted by: Revelo | Aug 13 2023 17:23 utc | 61
> Because he is an SBU/CIA/MI6 tool, shadowbanned urges Russian advance beyond the 4 southeast Oblasts (plus Crimea) that Russia currently claims.
Currently Russian forces are advancing towards Kupyansk which is in Kharkov region. So it is happening already.

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Aug 13 2023 17:43 utc | 65
>You thought wrong. The stated goal was to de-nazify and de-militarise the Ukraine.
True, that was the goal stated at the beginning of the SMO. But goals were updated since then:
To liberate Donbass and new regions, and to establish the 'sanitary cordon' around Russian border.

Posted by: hopehely | Aug 13 2023 18:02 utc | 69

Ukronazi's impudence is fascinating taking in account that their national saints Bandera, Shukhtyevich, Stetko etc. and their OUN were the vanguard of the Shoah/Holocaust with their mass murder of Jews starting June 30, 1941 in Lemberg (Lvov/Lviv). As Bandera wrote in his program "Struggles and Activities" in Mai 20, 1941

There are three hostile ethnics in Ukraine: Jews, Poles, and Russians. Those must be destroyed.

So far, Israel has widely ignored the Nazi roots of recent Ukrainian regime. Israel's ambassador even found excuses for the Nazi and Bandera cult. Will be interesting how far this submissiveness will go.

Posted by: aquadraht | Aug 13 2023 18:18 utc | 70

You are right. The continuity is unerring- the German invasion of Ukraine and sponsorship of nationalism begins in 1918 and never really lets up. Ukraine was the primary goal of Barbarossa, for its resources but also because of the Intermarium idea of Pilsudki. Nothing has changed.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2023 15:35 utc | 30

In 1918 Germany had lost WW1. One part was separated and became Poland. Poland was in conflict with Germany and all its neighbors except Latvia and Romania.
Pidsulki's goals as a Pole did not correspond to German interests and vice versa.
Russia was a multiethnic state and so was its successor, the Soviet Union. The latter had to struggle with the aftermath of the revolution, the conversion from monarchy to democracy.
Here, the multiethnic status was the starting point for the interests of foreign powers (e.g. the British) to create discord, which was to lead to civil war.

The main goal of Barbarossa was the destruction of the Soviet Union. Your "knowledge of history" contradicts itself!

Posted by: 600w | Aug 13 2023 18:31 utc | 71

The Russians are not so much giving up villages but they are at risk of losing road junctions and terrain features that dominate travel along said roads and at those junctions. I think they will scrabble together some kind of counterattack emanating out of Tokmak and push in this Ukie salient.

Tokmak is the main thrust of Ukie plans.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Aug 13 2023 18:34 utc | 72

Posted by: Honoh | Aug 13 2023 13:09 utc | 1

The coked up chihuahua with irritable bowl syndrome barks again.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Aug 13 2023 14:12 utc | 8

I think Dima is worried about being de-platformed from Utube, and is trying hard to sound impartial. Then there's his problem with the English language, which seems an insurmountable barrier for him. This morning he described a potential military situation as a 'piece of tasty cake.' I suspect he's only slightly less coherent in his native tongue.

How does it happen that Kiev forces can bomb Urozhainoye with JDAM munitions? . . .

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Aug 13 2023 15:17 utc | 26

I've wondered about that too. NATO/US planners seem to be very good at finding workarounds that defeat Russian defenses. I've read that the only way a Ukrainian jet can launch a JDAM is to fly toward the front line fast and low, then pull up and loft the missile toward the target. Maybe the exposure time of the plane is just too short for Russian AD to get a fix on it.

Posted by: Mike R | Aug 13 2023 18:36 utc | 73

It's nice and well to wish for a (much) larger mobilization. But was Russia in a position to retrain say 500,000+ reservists all at once? Especially given that so many things have changed since the Georgia let alone the Afghan wars, so that this training needs to be extensive. And what would a hypothetical 1m army be fighting with? Not sure how much bigger forces Russia could supply in high-intensity combat beyond what they currently have in the field, at least before production is ramped up further.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Aug 13 2023 17:57 utc | 67

I am receptive to this argument -- if the material basis isn't there for mobilizing more, then you need to wait until that gets fixed. Reportedly it is being fixed, and to a large extent it already has been fixed, so we might see another round soon.

But it was known that a big war was coming for a decade. What were they hoping for in the Kremlin? Hope is not a plan.

Staling did the Molotov-Ribentrop pact hoping that the war can be avoided, but he had been very very seriously preparing for major war since the late 1920s. He still got caught with his pants down when it came in terms of front line preparation, but industrially they were ready, and that won the war.

With the policies of the last decade, they would have lost then.

The only thing that might save Russia now is that the West is even more unprepared for big war than Russia. Otherwise the facts are that in all the wars it has fought in its history, Russia has never been so seriously outnumbered. It is 10:1 now. Sure, if Iran, China and North Korea jump in seriously, it shits immediately in the other direction, but that's a hypothetical.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 18:36 utc | 74

You are right. The continuity is unerring- the German invasion of Ukraine and sponsorship of nationalism begins in 1918 and never really lets up. Ukraine was the primary goal of Barbarossa, for its resources but also because of the Intermarium idea of Pilsudki. Nothing has changed.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2023 15:35 utc | 30

Pilsudski's other main idea was "Prometheism" -- to break up Russia by stoking ethnic tension inside it. And that wasn't limited to Ukrainians, but to everyone.

Now guess what has been doing the rounds in the mainstream since March last year, only now rebranded as "decolonization"...

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 18:39 utc | 75

As I see the map. From where the "big" offense started in June to where it is today. Is not 1km.

Posted by: Dferg | Aug 13 2023 17:10 utc | 57

#########

What if the Russians aren't fighting for territory but to attrit?

Western commentators tend to view everything through a Western lens.

We all think we know what the Russians are trying to do, how, and why. The truth is that none of us know. What we do know is that the Ukrainians are unable to breach Russian defensive lines or establish safe airspace to fly in.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 13 2023 18:45 utc | 76

The real question is what to do after the collapse. Because he is an SBU/CIA/MI6 tool, shadowbanned urges Russian advance beyond the 4 southeast Oblasts (plus Crimea) that Russia currently claims. Far wiser would be for Russia to focus on a peace treaty that bans Ukraine from ever having any military whatsoever and permits Russian invasion if Ukraine ever violates this ban. Then leave Ukraine alone in its bankruptcy to contemplate what a disaster this war was.

Posted by: Revelo | Aug 13 2023 17:23 utc | 61

That doesn't solve the Nazi problem.

History has shown what demilitarizing alone does -- you get a Hitler in power in 15 years.

Also, the window for saving Ukraine as part of the Russian world is closing. And if you allow a Ukraine minus those four oblasts to exist, even if demilitarized, it will close irreversibly. And Russia will have lost its historically richest and most productive region.

You need to replace the teachers and the curriculum in schools with the actual history, have Russian culture be part of life there again, etc. etc.

That is not going to happen without control over the territory.

If you don't do that, in a couple decades what this war was fought to prevent -- a powerful anti-Russia with missiles pointed at Moscow from point-blank range -- will become reality.

Then there is the larger geopolitical situation.

The ultimatum from December 2021 called for removal of NATO missiles from all former Eastern Bloc territory. Now that also means no such missiles ever in Sweden and Finland either. NATO has absolutely no intention of doing that, which makes physical control over Ukraine vital, so that missiles can be shot down in the boost phase. Poland is largely covered by Kaliningrad and Belarus, but Romania isn't.

The other concern is having a land connection to Serbia through Hungary, which would economically create a complete Eurasian land corridor and drive a wedge inside NATO. That can be done without occupying Lvov, but Ivano-Frankovsk, Ternopol and Transcaprathia need to be under physical control. And everything east of them, of course.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 18:49 utc | 77

History has shown what demilitarizing alone does -- you get a Hitler in power in 15 years.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 18:49 utc | 77

######

Losing much of its best farm and industrial land, as well as possibly land-locking what is left of Ukraine doesn't put it in a position to have a resurgence with a Hitler in the years to come.

Ukraine has been 404 for over a year. And it only continues to get worse as after losing territory and natural resources, it is now hemorrhaging human resources to the meat grinder.

And it remains to be seen what sort of settlement Russia can get from this confrontation when it winds down.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 13 2023 18:58 utc | 78

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 16:04 utc | 37

Given a known location of the S-400, there are likely blind spots that can be modeled to let the aircraft approach the front lines, make a small climb and then toss the JDAM. Depending on the missiles the particular S-400 battery has: how long of a track does the S-400 need for a semi-active radar homing missile to get a high probability of hit? An active radar homing missile would need less of a track for a high probability of a hit.

If Ukraine tosses some MALDs and HARMs along at the same time it makes thing more confusing and busier for the Russian air defenses.

I see fixed wing strike sorties for the Ukrainian air force averaging between 10 and 20 a day.

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 13 2023 19:03 utc | 79

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 13 2023 14:26 utc | 12
Posted by: Milites | Aug 13 2023 14:33 utc | 14

Noted. Thanks. Much appreciated.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Aug 13 2023 19:03 utc | 80

600w@71
I am not going to argue with you. But Germany, in the form of its High Command and in the person of General Max Hoffman was far from believing that it had lost the war until at earliest August 1918.

In the spring, the invasion of Ukraine, with an eye to its harvest, coincided with the very succesful offensive on the western front which smashed the Fifth Army and drove deep into France.

The treaty of Brest Litovsk was, on the face of it , a triumph for Germany's military and a great danger to the Entente, which had been shaken by mutinies and strikes for months and where the necessity of making peace was beginning to infiltrate the British cabinet.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2023 19:07 utc | 81

@ acquadraht, §70:
Zelensky is doing exactly what he´s paid to be doing: exacting revenge for Babi Yar.

Posted by: John Marks | Aug 13 2023 19:09 utc | 82

But... but... Stoltenberg and Von Der Leyen told me the Ruskies would run when they met the NATO trained AFU? Geez Louise, did they lie?

Weeb Union had this up today, here's the TG orig, worth watching!!

https://t.me/verumreactor/5681

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKCTJ3OtOKg

#exclusive
The work of the armored group "Petrovich" with the support of artillery of the 72nd Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 3rd Army Corps to destroy the enemy in Kleshcheevka.
Muses. Overton Gate

UPD: the footage shows the work of the armored group of the 85th brigade of the 2nd army corps. We apologize

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 13 2023 19:33 utc | 83

@ 9
"... where do you get Ukr advances of 60 km? Particularly when the AFU is losing ground in the Lugansk/Kharkov area..."

Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 13 2023 15:06 utc | 21
------------------------------------------------------------
I think he is either full of it, or he is talking about 60km all across the front line, perhaps 1 or 2 km here or there. His math does not hold up.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 13 2023 19:48 utc | 84

It sounds like the situation in kherson is turning worse for Russia. Ukraine has indeed managed to take and hold multiple bridgeheads around the bridge and water front villages.

Why it's so hard to knock them out I'm not sure. For whatever reason russian artillery seems unable to knock them out. I suspect at the end of the supply line kherson troops aren't sufficiently armed. Or they take the river for granted and let the Ukrainians swim across(well partially March now that more river bed is visible. Probably some fortifications were taken out then.

At any rate, it's developing. Somehow ukraine has tactics that keeps resources protected while under the gun.

Reports mention small boats a lot, and a dozen soldiers at a time attack.

Russia has used thermobarics and iskanders too, it's not a lack of trying things, they used thermos on the Ukrainian bank too.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 13 2023 19:49 utc | 85

The reason the airports are functional is that Russia calculates that the cost of destroying them is too high.

Neofeudalfuture | Aug 13 2023 15:48 utc | 32

Not an unreasonable take, and destroying runways sounds expensive. But still, one wonders if there isn't a cheap "hack" to disable an airport. As a concept, in one of the Gulf wars, IIRC, the US splattered mylar shreds all over high-tension power lines, disabling them. Is something like that an option here?

Or, alternatively, airports need fuel storage. Blow it up?

Maybe those are easy to fix, but not sure that sounds right.

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Aug 13 2023 19:58 utc | 86

But still, one wonders if there isn't a cheap "hack" to disable an airport.

There is, it's usually measured in kilotons.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 20:01 utc | 87

Why it's so hard to knock them out I'm not sure. For whatever reason russian artillery seems unable to knock them out.

[...]

At any rate, it's developing. Somehow ukraine has tactics that keeps resources protected while under the gun.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 13 2023 19:49 utc | 85

The right bank is higher and hard ground. The left bank is swampy low ground. This means that the effective range of Ukrainian artillery prevents RU from stationing troops right at the shore and also from saturating the area with short-range artillery. It was a predictable (and predicted) problem the moment Kherson was surrendered.

As long as UA cannot move heavy vehicles in, there isn't a big problem and these are suicidal missions, but it will be a nuisance to clear the area every time.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Aug 13 2023 20:06 utc | 88

... Russians in Crimea and Donbass living in fear of Ukrainian drone and missile strikes, meanwhile beaches in Odessa are open and full of revelers.
Posted by: bored | Aug 13 2023 16:46 utc | 50

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 13 2023 17:59 utc | 68


... Well, there might be swimmers in Odessa each, but you can bet there are also friendly bald men with eagle and swastika tatoos persuading eager sun bathers to jump in unmarked vans. ..

Listen up, dear friends !
The current RF "war"-strategy is still "very" far away from to attack & surround any Odessa areas, due to the fact the RF has NOT yet any capabilities to perform such of any ideas (from local sofas), so far.
The Crimea-Bridge will always being attacked furthermore by the USA/UK-Troops on its Drone/AWACS combined attacks behind "in the international guaranteed sky".
As far as that will going on, RF has no chances to stabilize the situation on Crimea and on the Black Sea, means: the ever on-going ("small") attacks on Crimea and against the 6 latest existing RF West Coast Defense Ports.
Think ! There is not a "desperate UKR-Army" operating on-Ground.
"There" are other Operators operating qabove the Black Sea!
Russia: calm down - and give-up the war ! Give UKR and Your destiny to the BIDEN-CLAN !
That's it .. (pls. give some time before I've killed the Hunter's) .. OK?

Posted by: spare_truth | Aug 13 2023 20:09 utc | 89

What if *Isreal* is bent over a barrel and has a gun to its head, pants pulled down?
Just sayin' that some folks see this from a different perspective.

Posted by: Robert Hope | Aug 13 2023 20:24 utc | 90

Posted by: Robert Hope | Aug 13 2023 20:24 utc | 90

.. Just sayin' that some folks see this from a different perspective. ..

Israel/MOSSAD has another view of UKR-Point.
They (Right-wing NethanYAHOO) try to expand "their" teritory claimed on 1948.
That's all, acc.to the "settlers" of "Israel". You know what "Israel" (Moses) have meant by the "God's folk" .. No, you (US-Gov) did not remember, but some else "guys" can remember of British history - since 1948.

Posted by: spare_truth | Aug 13 2023 20:36 utc | 91

Comment 1

'Ukraine considering measures against ‘pro-Russia’ Israel – media'

It is quite obvious that Ukraine government is run by Israel. US.gov heavily influenced, indeed run by Israel (which is impressive). The folks with the severe hatred of Russia who control their brainwashed, bribed, and blackmailed minions of the deep state, are Israeli. Therefore the notion that 'Ukraine' is considering measures against itself for 'pro-Russia' stance, is ludicrous. The gig is up. Putin's Russia has been preparing for this final act of the resistance to the hegemon's push for complete world dominance accomplished with absolute control of the world's centralized financial system.

Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnaigh | Aug 13 2023 20:40 utc | 92

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Aug 13 2023 19:58 utc | 86 "The reason the airports are functional is that Russia calculates that the cost of destroying them is too high"

Why do we think that Ukraine is using the airports much? The aircraft are capable of operating off highways.

Given the relatively small number of aircraft Ukraine is still operating it would be pretty easy to disperse them. The fuel and weapons could be bought to them by trucks and the ratio of mechanics to aircraft must be pretty high. (That assumes that the mechanics for the much larger sized air force Ukraine had a the start of the war and the ones that had been recently released from active duty in the last few years before Feb 2022 have not been drafted into the infantry.)

Posted by: Ed4 | Aug 13 2023 20:47 utc | 93

Nazis open Ukraine military recruiting center in Maine.


https://libertarianinstitute.org/news/american-neo-nazi-training-forces-in-maine-to-fight-for-ukraine/

Posted by: First Time Poster | Aug 13 2023 20:49 utc | 94

@ acquadraht, §70: Zelensky is doing exactly what he´s paid to be doing: exacting revenge for Babi Yar.

Posted by: John Marks | Aug 13 2023 19:09 utc | 82


That has to be the most absurd thing I’ve read on this site in weeks, and the competition for that dubious honor has been fierce.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 13 2023 20:56 utc | 95

Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnaigh | Aug 13 2023 20:40 utc | 92

.. It is quite obvious that Ukraine government is run by Israel. US.gov heavily influenced, indeed run by Israel (which is impressive). The folks with the severe hatred of Russia who control their brainwashed, bribed, and blackmailed minions of the deep state, are Israeli. ..

You're "operating" here on a "very thin ice on a Jewish lake" today..
The UKR-Government (if you'd like to call them of smired guys everywhome there may be still today existent - if any exist furthermore of them - it's NOT run by any Israel/MOSSAD rules. Of course they (MOSSAD) wish to habe "influence" here - as usual. But they could not!
Understood?
Israel is a "State" which endangeres every neighbour states (ie. Syrian, IRAN, Yemen etc - That is a fact, today.

Posted by: spare_truth | Aug 13 2023 20:57 utc | 96

Seek and be enlighten >>>>>>>>>>

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky Came to Power in Carefully Planned Operation Coordinated by Western Intelligence Services, Says Former U.S. Diplomat
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/08/04/ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-came-to-power-in-a-carefully-planned-operation-coordinated-by-western-intelligence-services-says-former-u-s-diplomat/

Scott Ritter - Agent Zelensky: Ukraine on Sale - VIDEO
https://www.globalresearch.ca/agent-zelensky-ukraine-on-sale/5828625

9/11, Russia, and How We Got Here (VIDEO) —— MOA mentioned
https://www.ae911truth.org/news/929-9-11-russia-and-how-we-got-here


Posted by: Fritigern | Aug 13 2023 21:18 utc | 97

@ Posted by: Jo Dominich | Aug 13 2023 14:07 utc | 7

I classify fhat statement of Zelensky as a form of disinformation to cover the more likely situation that Israel is providing a lot to Kiev through the US or otherwise.

Posted by: Richard L | Aug 13 2023 21:21 utc | 98

Concerning the "only 2 ?" Crimea-Bridge "Drone" attacks by "UKR-Forces" - better say by US- and or UK-Forces Recon-spy devices:
Why did'nt Russia tell completely the "truth" about problems to 'defend' it's own territories .. Crimea, Belgorod, Nanal bases in Black-Sea ..?
UKR mass men/vehicles storming some RF-First-Line, surprisingly?
Thereios still a doubt remaining about, what the RF-Strategy rather than retreat, might be within next weeks. ..
- OK: the RF tactics are well known : Come in the Gray-Zone, then UKR enemy will be destroyed ..
- NOK: that RF tactics won't go well any further, because AFU've learned, not as crazy as might think.

Now: Front-lines do not move in either direction (may be some success 3 km by UKR, then repelled).
What's that of a war ? 300 guys dying each day - on either front! For What ?
Kill the Biden-Clan + Scholz + Airbus + .. + Rheinmetall !

Posted by: spare_truth | Aug 13 2023 21:26 utc | 99

Malenkov@94. Are the Ukranian people not being severely punished by Zelensky? From a certain perspective this is exactly whats happening.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 13 2023 21:34 utc | 100

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