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August 2, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-184
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
I am curious to hear the opinions of fellow barflies regarding the arrest of Boris Kagarlitsky (just saw the story via Taibbi’s Racket News). Apparently he is a self-proclaimed Marxist sociologist who was arresting on a charge of “inciting terrorism” based on articles he has published criticizing the SMO in Ukraine. Wondering if the charges are in fact justified or if Russia is overreacting in its efforts to crack down on dissent? Posted by: Akash | Aug 2 2023 15:47 utc | 1 simplicius substack post for anyone who would like to read it.. Posted by: james | Aug 2 2023 15:57 utc | 2 It seems to me that, for a number of reasons, the Biden bribery matter is central to the Ukraine issue. Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2023 16:03 utc | 3 Biden crime family activities and Ukraine SMO must be linked in some way. ‘Sleepy’ Joe has hardly an objective position. Posted by: Roy Walker | Aug 2 2023 16:15 utc | 4 The party line in the NYT is seeing the dawn of reality:
Seeing how it has been 70 years since the US fought such a conflict (Korea), obviously training is not based on experience and 80 year old doctrine (WW2). The trainers need training. Posted by: upstater | Aug 2 2023 16:20 utc | 5 @ bevin | Aug 2 2023 16:03 utc | 3 Posted by: james | Aug 2 2023 16:23 utc | 6 HIMARS as counter-counter-artillery
The three drone videos I saw were – naturally – drone videos, so it is likely that “the Ukrainians” used the same drone feed to target their HIMARS rockets. It is also possible that some of the hits were targeted by American satellites. If so, we would never see video or other evidence of this. Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 2 2023 16:26 utc | 7 Re: bevin | Aug 2 2023 16:03 utc | 3
Posted by: Linda Wood | Aug 2 2023 16:31 utc | 8 Akash | Aug 2 2023 15:47 utc | 1– re: Bevin #3 Posted by: c | Aug 2 2023 16:52 utc | 10 Post #5: Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 2 2023 16:52 utc | 11 1. Dump Ukraine project, it is unprofitable. Ignore Kiev crowd, they are so pliable by our bribery they wouldn’t dare to object. Posted by: KitaySupporter | Aug 2 2023 16:54 utc | 12 Russia continues to characterize Ukraine’s attacks on Russian civilians as acts of terrorism which again prompted Maria Zakharova in her weekly briefing to make some comparisons. Here’s that portion of her Ukraine Report:
IMO, there’s really no surprise in this for those who know the Outlaw US Empire’s history of using terrorism to attain its ends. And if Ukies are going to be arrested and tried for their actions, what about the Western organizers and facilitators who are just as guilty? that the intel agencies have been given this huge power – zelensky is a cia/mi6 operative goes without saying… Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 2 2023 17:14 utc | 14 Ulrich Heyden, a journalist who has reported from Moskau for quite a long time now (for “Junge Welt”), comments in German on the arrest of Boris Kagarlitsky. His conclusion (my translation):
Simplicius points out that it is being asserted that Russia is behind the coup in Niger. Maybe. Maybe not. It sounds like “confession by projection” – promoting coups is more of an American thing lately. Niger is #7 in uranium reserves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_reserves Both Russia and Kazakhstan have more. And Canada and (especially) Australia have a LOT more uranium than Niger. So, if Russia participated in toppling Niger to starve France of uranium, there are other sources – from the 5 Eyes American vassals. A coup in Niger would only affect Europe’s access to uranium over the short term. They could buy more expensive uranium from the Canada & Australia. Just like how they’re now paying more for natural gas from the US. This coup could benefit the Anglo countries. Posted by: Sentient | Aug 2 2023 17:28 utc | 16 At the end of her Ukraine update, Zakharova adds this:
The ideological aspect of the confrontation between the RoW and the Outlaw US Empire is too often overlooked. But the point of its spear can be seen quite well in Ukraine. That’s why there’re bioweapon labs globally. The world is combating the toxic mixture of Nazism and Neoliberalism, although it seems few see or understand that reality. Denazifying Ukraine is the easy part of the job. Denazifying the West will prove more difficult. >>Joe Biden to ask Congress to fund Taiwan arms via Ukraine budget… Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 2 2023 17:36 utc | 18 Thanks karlof1 and Ulrike for your insights. The Ulrich Heyden view kindly translated by Ulrike seems to me the most accurate summary of what I was able to gather searching the internet regarding Kagarlitsky. Read (not sure if it is true or not) that he justified Ukraine’s targeting of the Kerch bridge as a military rather than civilian target. But I also think he should be released. Maybe when the conflict ends and cooler heads prevail, he will indeed be released, and the charges dropped. Posted by: Akash | Aug 2 2023 17:39 utc | 19 There’s a great article on the Biden/Ukraine scam on Consortium News by Patrick Lawrence (7/31_) Posted by: hedlykarok | Aug 2 2023 17:44 utc | 20 An australian blogger makes some “amazing” predictions, I guess entirely based on ukrainian government claims as reflected in corporate media: Posted by: Blissex | Aug 2 2023 17:45 utc | 21 Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 2 2023 17:29 utc | 19 Posted by: Blissex | Aug 2 2023 17:51 utc | 22 Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2023 16:03 utc | 3 Posted by: Blissex | Aug 2 2023 18:04 utc | 23 Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 2 2023 16:45 utc | 11 Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Aug 2 2023 18:08 utc | 24 «Ukraine’s targeting of the Kerch bridge as a military rather than civilian target» Posted by: Blissex | Aug 2 2023 18:13 utc | 25 The tank that destroyed the nazi column is now on T shirts in Russia. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 2 2023 18:14 utc | 26 @ Jmaas | Aug 2 2023 17:14 utc | 16 Posted by: james | Aug 2 2023 18:20 utc | 27 Simplicius points out that it is being asserted that Russia is behind the coup in Niger. Maybe. Maybe not. It sounds like “confession by projection” – promoting coups is more of an American thing lately. Niger is #7 in uranium reserves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_reserves Both Russia and Kazakhstan have more. And Canada and (especially) Australia have a LOT more uranium than Niger. So, if Russia participated in toppling Niger to starve France of uranium, there are other sources – from the 5 Eyes American vassals. A coup in Niger would only affect Europe’s access to uranium over the short term. They could buy more expensive uranium from the Canada & Australia. Just like how they’re now paying more for natural gas from the US. This coup could benefit the Anglo countries. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Aug 2 2023 18:31 utc | 28 Correction…. for Danube substitute Dniester Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Aug 2 2023 18:35 utc | 29
Gee. What a thing to wonder. Posted by: fnord | Aug 2 2023 18:39 utc | 30 Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2023 16:03 utc | 3 Posted by: Mike R | Aug 2 2023 18:45 utc | 31 @KitaySupporter | Aug 2 2023 16:54 utc | 12
I guess it is just a matter of time before the US arranges for Zelensky to be assassinated, obviously blaming Russia for it at the same time. Then use the situation to “refocus”. Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 2 2023 18:52 utc | 32 I wanna add too that it’s not really surprising that the Russian state has gotten about as bad about civil liberties as the Soviet state was when the restriction of certain personal liberties has only become more strict since the Soviet state was demolished. It is substantially harder to be a sexual minority in Russia today than it was in Russia in 1989, or in Cuba today, or in even the DDR in the 1970s. Drugs are more proscribed, whereas up until very late in the USSR one could grow and consume one’s own supply of cannabis with relatively no interference by the state (just don’t start selling it, because that’s capitalist). Posted by: fnord | Aug 2 2023 18:58 utc | 33 Blissex | Aug 2 2023 17:45 utc | 23 Thanks to those commenters who providing information useful to making sense of Kagarlitsky’s arrest. I’ve only read his book “Square Wheels,” which reflects a guy with a brave and intelligent Marxist sensibility opposing Yeltsin’s corrupt privatization campaign. Posted by: dadooronron | Aug 2 2023 19:06 utc | 35 War Progression in Ukraine and Other?: Posted by: young | Aug 2 2023 19:11 utc | 36 @Stonebird Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 19:15 utc | 37 @fnord Posted by: Akash | Aug 2 2023 19:18 utc | 38 It would make much more sense to strike West via Liman, using at least 150,00 of their reserves, to the Dneiper and then head south, destroying Ukr logistics hubs and roues as they go and roll up the Ukr battle-front in a flanking manoeuvre. Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 2 2023 19:19 utc | 39 Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 19:15 utc | 37 The 30th Leopard tank was destroyed today. Posted by: Tenet | Aug 2 2023 19:36 utc | 41 Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 2 2023 19:19 utc | 39 Posted by: unimperator | Aug 2 2023 19:37 utc | 42 “The majority? What is the majority? The majority is nonsense understanding always lies only with the few. […] We should weigh the votes and not count them; the state must perish sooner or later where the majority triumphs and ignorance decides.” Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 19:38 utc | 43 Posted by: unimperator | Aug 2 2023 19:37 utc | 42 Posted by: unimperator | Aug 2 2023 19:41 utc | 44 Still no updates on Gonzalo Lira, I heard that he attempted to cross the boarder with Hungary, but was turned back by the Ukrainian boarder guards (but no news on if he was taken in custody). it’s been more than 48 hours since his last video so if we don’t hear from him by tomorrow I would think he was taken into custody again. Posted by: Kadath | Aug 2 2023 19:42 utc | 45 Although there are some above, who suggest various field manoeuvers for the Russians to make, the present emphasis is on eliminating command structures, (as the “commanders are said to stay in the bunkers and just send a few more troops to the grinder), the ammunition, and at last some of the supply routes. @Kadath | Aug 2 2023 19:42 utc | 45
From Brian Berletic: Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 2 2023 19:51 utc | 47 @Kadath Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 19:52 utc | 48 Interesting rumors coming from Turkish sources Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 2 2023 19:56 utc | 49 Maria Zakharova: ‘This time, the West went even further. Through the mouths of their officials, they bluntly stated that the Kyiv regime can choose any targets for destruction.’ Posted by: Mr B | Aug 2 2023 20:08 utc | 50 Have there been any reports of Storm Shadow strikes since Russia launched the attack on the Ukranian airbases a week or so ago? Posted by: Bob | Aug 2 2023 20:09 utc | 51 Since it now appears clear that Gonzalo Lira did not succeed in crossing the border from Ukraine to Hungary. I might as well reveal what I believe was his last known location, i.e. when making the 3 video recordings we saw yesterday. There were some clues in the videos that made it possible to identify the location precisely. Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 2 2023 20:16 utc | 52 @ “ I am curious to hear the opinions of fellow barflies regarding the arrest of Boris Kagarlitsky …” Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 2 2023 20:17 utc | 53 Posted by: Mr B | Aug 2 2023 20:08 utc | 50 Posted by: unimperator | Aug 2 2023 20:19 utc | 54 Never heard of that guy Kagarlitsky. No wander; I am not into social science or anything similar. Posted by: 2+2=5 | Aug 2 2023 20:20 utc | 55 @Norwegian: Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 20:28 utc | 56 @21 Posted by: Fred777 | Aug 2 2023 20:30 utc | 57 Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 20:28 utc | 56
He did. Posted by: 2+2=5 | Aug 2 2023 20:31 utc | 58 I don’t understand why Gonzalo Lira announced that he was going to jump bail and escape Ukraine before he actually made the attempt. It’s almost as if he wanted to get caught. Posted by: William Verick | Aug 2 2023 20:45 utc | 60 Posted by: Mr B | Aug 2 2023 20:08 utc | 50 Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 2 2023 20:46 utc | 61 @ karlof1 | Aug 2 2023 17:29 utc | 13, 17
What an inspiration she is! Her dauntless presence shows and gives courage. So often I hear the kind of thoughts which might occur to human beings, relentlessly pursued in her arguments. Despite all the dysfunction surrounding me, at least there are some compassionate human beings in this old world, articulating the case for humanity. Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 2 2023 20:47 utc | 62 I hope Gonzalo survives, but I fear. Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 2 2023 20:49 utc | 63 Blissex@23 Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2023 20:50 utc | 64 @William Verick | Aug 2 2023 20:45 utc | 60 Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 2 2023 20:52 utc | 65 William Verick | Aug 2 2023 20:45 utc | 60 Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Aug 2 2023 21:02 utc | 66 Why? The YT videos were uploaded with a time delay. By the time they were online, Gonzalo had probably already been arrested. Posted by: Apollyon | Aug 2 2023 21:06 utc | 67 This Australian blogger is probably taking “purple haze” before he works on his predictions..he certainly isn’t describing the real world… Posted by: pyrrhus | Aug 2 2023 21:07 utc | 68 Here’s another speculation on Gonzalo Lira and a bunch of questions and scenarios which could also suggest he could have made a deal with SBU to enable them target other people. Make of it what you want. Posted by: unimperator | Aug 2 2023 21:12 utc | 69 Akash | Aug 2 2023 15:47 utc | 1– Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 2 2023 21:14 utc | 70 @Flying Dutchman #66 Posted by: Rokossovsky | Aug 2 2023 21:40 utc | 71 fnord: Like you I take a dim view of arresting people for thought and speech crimes (assuming, of course, that that’s why they were incarcerated). That much said: in view of the long and rich tradition of Russian prison literature, people like Navalny and Kagarlitsky are pretty meager successors to the likes of Solzhenitsyn (whatever one thinks of him) and Stalin (ditto). Posted by: malenkov | Aug 2 2023 21:40 utc | 72 @Ahenobarbus Posted by: Akash | Aug 2 2023 21:42 utc | 73 Despite huge artillery losses, the Ukrainians still manage to keep up their shelling. Where are the replacement guns coming from? The Russians are destroying about 10 a day. How much longer can NATO supply replacements? Posted by: HH | Aug 2 2023 21:46 utc | 74 Posted by: Blissex | Aug 2 2023 17:45 utc | 21 Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 2 2023 21:51 utc | 75 How long did already seasoned, highly motivated, American troops train for D-Day? To think that barely trained forcibly conscripted soldiers could be used in conjunction with outclassed artillery and armor to push through layer after layer of fortified lines manned by a force with air dominance was madness. And not in the cool “This is Sparta!” way. Posted by: Babel-17 | Aug 2 2023 22:27 utc | 77 @14Karlof1. Im Canadian. I’d totally understand if Russia needs to send a message. Within a generation aid will fall from the sky in crates labeled in Chinese and Cyrillic here. A testament to our programing? Or not? Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 2 2023 22:29 utc | 78 Dear God some people have more time than brains……if he tells no one what his plans are, and he gets caught….who writes the god damn book……The End…..just like he did with the Round Tables, he’s not fucking stupid and he knows what he’s up against……to be continued. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 2 2023 22:52 utc | 79 malenkov @ 72 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 2 2023 23:00 utc | 80 James @ 6 Posted by: Jane | Aug 2 2023 23:01 utc | 81 leprechaun: Indeed he’s not stupid, but he does seem to have an unhealthy desire to take risks—possibly because he thinks that family connections and the money that goes with those connections will pull him out of the fire. Well, we’ll see. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 2 2023 23:05 utc | 82 @ LightYearsFromHome | Aug 2 2023 23:00 utc | 80 Posted by: malenkov | Aug 2 2023 23:08 utc | 83 Mr B 50 Posted by: Giyane | Aug 2 2023 23:11 utc | 84 “Saudi Arabia is now an ally of Russia” writes Giyane. I’m confident that Russia isn’t so foolish as to assume that that’s the case. Posted by: malenkov | Aug 2 2023 23:16 utc | 85 Mr B | Aug 2 2023 20:08 utc | 50 Posted by: Cynic | Aug 2 2023 23:17 utc | 86 malenkov @ 83
Guess he felt it important to smell nice. At least that! Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 2 2023 23:33 utc | 88 We have no idea what has happened to Lira. It could be as simple as the border guard wanted more cash than Lira had. Or he wanted the bike and Lira said no. Worst case is the border guard was a Nazi who didn’t care that Kiev/SBU was cutting Lira loose. Any plan, any scenario goes haywire if there is a man with a gun and a temper. Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 2 2023 23:47 utc | 89 @HH 74: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 2 2023 23:50 utc | 90 @oldhippie 89 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 2 2023 23:56 utc | 91 @66 Flying Dutchman Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 2 2023 23:58 utc | 92 https://www.rt.com/news/580727-us-frustrated-zelensky-nato/ Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 3 2023 0:03 utc | 93 “Saudi Arabia is now an ally of Russia” – Giyane Posted by: spudski | Aug 3 2023 0:15 utc | 94 “The story line on Zelensky is that he was brought to power by the backing of a wealthy Ukrainian (aka Oligarch). Prior to that he had a career in acting. Thus it is unlikely he is an operative.” Posted by: Jane | Aug 3 2023 0:16 utc | 95 Very interesting and I’d say correct take on the upcoming Saudi peace summit, you know the one that leaves out Russia. Seems it was planned well before the BIG counter offensive and the BIG summit was to humiliate a broken Russia. Now the USA and all the cronies are stuck with going through with it to not lose face. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 3 2023 0:21 utc | 96 21 blissex Yeah anyone can drop toast and have it land butter side down. theres actually a maths equation based on bench height that makes it more likely to land butter side down on the floor, much like that bloggers views Posted by: hankster | Aug 3 2023 0:42 utc | 97 Some videos for today. Posted by: Nate | Aug 3 2023 1:00 utc | 98 At this point there is quite a large probability Ukraine will move to a defensive position behind cluster munitions. Just like last winter it will be a stalemate. Mild and wet with artillery duels. Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 3 2023 1:14 utc | 99 HIMARS as counter-counter-artillery Posted by: Ed | Aug 3 2023 1:43 utc | 100 |
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