Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 4, 2023
Three Polls On Support For The War In Ukraine

There are new polls out which show the changing opinion of U.S. citizens and others about supporting the war in Ukraine.

Newsweek came first, with a very deceiving headline:

U.S. Troops Should be Sent to Ukraine, Third of Americans Say

The text describing the poll does not really support what the headline says:

A total of 31 percent of eligible voters in the U.S. support or strongly support American military forces heading to the battlefields of Ukraine, polling conducted exclusively for Newsweek by Redfield & Wilton Strategies has revealed.

A quarter of respondents neither supported nor opposed the idea of sending U.S. soldiers to Ukraine, with 34 percent against the suggestion. Just under one in ten respondents did not know.

Can anyone tell me why one would put the loosing share of the opinion poll into the headline?

What is surprising, at least to me, is the huge difference of opinions between the young and the older voters:

In the poll, those identified as "Millennial," between 27 and 42 years old, were most likely to "strongly support" committing U.S. troops to Ukraine. However, more respondents aged between 18-26 (Gen Z) said they would support the measure overall, 47 percent saying they supported or strongly supported sending U.S. troops.

Nearly a third of respondents aged over 59 said they opposed pledging U.S. troops to Ukraine, with a further 25 percent "strongly" opposing the suggestion.

The pro-war Gen-Z-lers should be put through a boot camp to be shipped off to Europe. I have no doubt that it would change their opinion in no time.

In contrast to Newsweek the CNN poll pice is correctly headlined:

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia

Most Americans oppose Congress authorizing additional funding to support Ukraine in its war with Russia, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS, as the public splits over whether the US has already done enough to assist Ukraine.

Overall, 55% say the US Congress should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine vs. 45% who say Congress should authorize such funding. And 51% say that the US has already done enough to help Ukraine while 48% say it should do more. A poll conducted in the early days of the Russian invasion in late February 2022 found 62% who felt the US should have been doing more.

The CNN poll seem to contradict the one by Newsweek on the most important question:

When asked specifically about types of assistance the US could provide to Ukraine, there is broader support for help with intelligence gathering (63%) and military training (53%) than for providing weapons (43%), alongside very slim backing for US military forces to participate in combat operations (17%).

There is a strong partisan divide about supporting the war:

Within both parties, there are splits by ideology. On providing additional funding, liberal Democrats are far and away the most supportive, 74% back it compared with 51% of moderate or conservative Democrats. Among Republicans, about three-quarters of conservatives oppose new funding (76%) compared with 61% of moderate or liberal Republicans.

Independents mostly say the US has done enough to help Ukraine (56%) and that they oppose additional funding (55%).

The progressives in the U.S., like the Greens in Europe, are now the fringe that is most eager to pursue the war. They are, of course, also those who are the least eager to serve in the military.

It is interesting to compare that with a change in opinion of young Poles, aged 16-34:

There has been a fundamental shift when it comes to the stance that young Poles think their government should adopt in the war in Ukraine. In 2022, an overwhelming majority of 83% argued that the government should support Ukraine – but this number has changed drastically.

Now, 65% of respondents back continuous support for Ukraine, whereas the remaining 34% wish for Poland to stay neutral. Clearly, more than one and a half years into the current phase of the conflict and amid fears of other countries being pulled into the war, young people have become more cautious.

Those numbers are a month old. It is likely that the support has sunk further and will no longer be in a majority by the end of this year.

While no poll can be trusted fully they show in aggregate that the general opinion is moving away from supporting the war.

That gives some hope that any unnecessary prolonging of the war, which some neoconservative circles seem to wish, will be met by a strong opposition.

Comments

Stierlitz | Aug 4 2023 19:28 utc | 82
“[The young] have been brainwashed by the LGBTQ/Green/ movement that is in fact a clever ploy for the domination by America of the world.”
Yes to “brainwashed by the LGBTQ/Green/ movement” but I don’t see a “clever ploy” (if only because it’s not working. America is losing its dominance everywhere.)
You have to look at social/psychological factors, and thinkers of the quality necessary for analysing such broad questions are extinct. The last ones (the generation of Freud, Berlin, Popper..) emigrated from Germany in the ‘30s and left no descendants.)
The LGBTQ & Green movements are symptoms of the culture of Narcissism analysed by Christopher Lasch in the ‘90s. It’s easy to see how youth gets captured by movements that emphasise sentiment over reason, less easy to explain how these movements captured the entire political class of the Western world. Something got fatally twisted, and very recently. Saddam Hussein was hated in the West, yet millions demonstrated against the Iraq war. No such demonstration is possible now. The fact that the dominant class in the West (supposedly left of centre, pacifist, highly educated, strong on moral principles and civilized values) has adopted a Nazi-backed regime & racist Russophobia as its guiding principles is incomprehensible. Explanations won’t be forthcoming for many years, I fear.

Posted by: geoff chambers | Aug 4 2023 20:29 utc | 101

In all fairness, there are Russians by ethnicity and passport who hate just about all things Russian, but love themselves some Louis Vuitton. Or Yves Rocher…
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 4 2023 18:25 utc | 65
——————-
A lot of you are wasting time on a Ukr or more likely a Navalny troll. They combine racism & liberal western cargo cultism, In equal measure. Along with grotesque exaggeration of moderately/marginally truthful problems within Russia.
The line about “demographics” & “migrant crime” was a dead give away, how in the blue f**k does 20 to 40k dead (disproportionately non ethnic Russians to boot) effect Russian demographics as anything but a statistical blip?
Particularly since *millions* of Slavs from Ukraine have fled *to* Russia, to say nothing of those still living in the annexed territories.
As for the migrants, I’d bet the current situation is approximately 10 times better than it was in the 1990′ early 2000’s. When the RF was borderline lawless. So another repetitive Navalnyist trope trotted out like an old whore…

Posted by: Urban Fox | Aug 4 2023 20:30 utc | 102

Here’s my weekly Ukraine Update which may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-95f
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Aug 4 2023 17:43 utc | 52
Thanks for that. I thought it was great. Wide ranging, exhaustive, on point. I followed maybe all the links and found them informative and good. I valued the Helmer for instance.
Tried to leave a comment but it wouldn’t accept it. I’ll put it here:
I think it is sad that Ukrainians are always overlooked.
‘Ukrainians’ always means only the Kiev Ukrainians. And given that they’re mainly cannon fodder without a voice it really means the regime. And THAT means the USA. So in fact not even the Kiev Ukrainians ‘get a mention’.
But what I mean is that the Ukrainian nation should always have been seen as ALL Ukrainians.
That is: the Kiev Ukrainians and the Donbas Ukrainians.
I contend they ARE the ‘Ukrainian nation’ and they are ‘The Ukrainians’.
To use the correct language. Correct definition of terms.
Split into two parts by the Civil War doesn’t change that fact, that underlying reality. Until a generation or two has passed the question ‘Where are the Ukrainians’ should always properly be answered by ‘In Kiev oblasts AND in Donbas Oblasts’
Just as the Jewish ‘nation’ never ceased to exist during the diaspora so currently the Ukrainian nation exists in these two parts.
Seeing things this way, which is the only correct way, changes the picture enormously.
For it puts on the table the possibility of a ‘Ukrainian victory’ that is not a ‘Russian defeat’ nor an ‘American’ or ‘NATO’ victory.
The Ukrainian nation itself could win handsomely simply by coming together and announcing itself to be one nation with no intent of allowing anyone or anything to separate them, cause the to fight, ever again.

Posted by: arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 20:32 utc | 103

@ob | Aug 4 2023 19:56 utc | 90

What a change from the Vietnam War era when the younger generation was vehemently opposed to the war and the older ones were supportive. The main factor back then was that young American boys and men were at real risk of being sent to fight in the war. Not so with today’s western young folks. The Ukraine War seems abstract and non-threatening to them. Just let them be drafted into their country’s military and sent to the front lines to fight; their attitudes will change mighty fast.

During the Vietnam war were better grounded in reality. Internet didn’t exist, many didn’t see much TV. Feedback came from interaction with real people.
Nowadays young people have grown up with internet gaming and especially mobile phones 24/7. It becomes very hard for some to separate fantasy from reality because both truth and propaganda comes via that little screen you are staring at all the time. Older people are also affected, but at least they grew up when things were different.
Young people are very vulnerable because of this type of programming, which is very 1984-like.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 4 2023 20:43 utc | 104

NO DOUBTS:
The fog of war lingers and perhaps even thickens. However, there are some no doubts that are becoming apparent regardless of how much fog is being produced by the propagandist.
No doubt, Ukraine is losing against the Russians BIG TIME in their latest and greatest offensive. I don’t think anyone with a good grasp of military history and modern warfare would have guessed any different with Russia controlling the air including shutting down the Ukrainian drone warfare with their EW.
No doubt, the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) is losing a much higher percentage of troops and equipments versus the AFU. I don’t know the official numbers. But, from the many different numbers I have heard, I will guess the AFU is losing at least 5 to every 1 Russian loss.
No doubt, the AFU is going to eventually exhaust itself with their continual perspective of refusing to lose any territory at the tremendous cost of its troops and equipment.
No doubt the Western media is starting to let out some of the truth about what is really going on with the AFU and the Ukraine government. This is preparing the West’s gradual support to shift away from Ukraine.
From these “no doubts”, some plausable predictions are in order:
1. The AFU does not have much time left until it exhausts itself kicking against the pricks at the zero lines.
2. The Russians most likely will move forward to take at least the Donbas when the AFU’s latest offensive is neutralized. I predict this will happen before the autumn rains come to Ukraine by late November 2023.
3. The West (mainly the USA) now knows, without doubt, that it can not take Russia down via sanctions nor the battlefield.
4. The West (mainly the USA) will not back off in its attempt to destroy Russia. This is because to do so means it will lose its world hegemony.
5. The USA’s conflict with Russia will soon become much worse.
6. It looks as if something of great significance will happen on both the battlefield in the political arena soon.

Posted by: young | Aug 4 2023 20:49 utc | 105

@Norwegian | Aug 4 2023 20:43 utc | 105
During the Vietnam war people were better grounded in reality.
Sorry.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 4 2023 20:49 utc | 106

Posted by: AG | Aug 4 2023 19:09 utc | 76
“A slow drag and build-up instead.”
That’s the thing with wars, if one side has a “slow build-up” but the other is already raring to go, the side slowly building up loses badly.
“I assume both could be solved. The sources have not dried up. They have just closed down the excavating facilities.”
Correct, not all sources have dried up. Only they are too scarce to matter in a global economy where the other power centers have access to much, much more and have larger manpower reserves. Not to mention getting up to current consumption would then cost much more than today, and the EU does not have the magical printing press the USA have.
“Nuclear energy could solve the environment issue besides that, which in Europe politically even in war-time you would have to deal with.”
Same problem: nuclear energy is fine, but you currently need a lot of uranium for it to work. Niger provides around 25% of the EU’s uranium, Russia and Kazakhstan a combined 40%. That’s about 65% the EU won’t be able to buy cheaply anymore. Energy consumption is going to come crashing down when others’ (Russia, China, Iran, India, Brazil, even Canada) is going to go up.
I’m not discounting French, German or Italian theoretical will to rise again, assuming they would throw their political class in jail for high treason. I’m only saying this: will doesn’t matter when you don’t have the proper resource input.

Posted by: Lemming | Aug 4 2023 20:52 utc | 107

Excellent interview with Dmitri Orlov.
Discussion about the African summit in Russia, US weapons ending up back to Mexican cartels, fentanyl production in Mexico won’t stop, China-US trade, US incapability to survive without exports for a month, and the end fate of Ukraine being landlocked to the west as a limbo-land no one really wants. Not even Ukrainians really want to live there, they all want free money and move to Miami, and the “patriotism” is a sham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq1VBFyhIuI

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 4 2023 20:58 utc | 108

Posted by: Monos | Aug 4 2023 20:24 utc | 100
I think that it is important to note that most Americans Millennials and Zoomers have never been in the military, much less a shooting war. The closest these midwits have ever come to real-life experience on the battlefield is a co-op campaign of Call of Duty.
=======================================
I think it’s mainly that these guys are the internet generation and tend to be much more into groupthink, probably because of having grown up on social media.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 4 2023 21:01 utc | 109

@Scorpion | Aug 4 2023 21:01 utc | 110

I think it’s mainly that these guys are the internet generation and tend to be much more into groupthink, probably because of having grown up on social media.

Exactly, except I consider it anti-social media. These things always get Orwellian names.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 4 2023 21:07 utc | 110

What is surprising about these polls is that they show the mighty Wurlitzer is not working. A year and a half of one of the biggest propaganda campaigns in the history of the world and the US ruling class can’t even generate a majority in favor of sending more war aid to the Ukraine. If the US ruling class can no longer use propaganda effectively to further its aims it is in big trouble.

Posted by: Chas | Aug 4 2023 21:11 utc | 111

Russia must destroy all export ports and railway lines of Ukraine. This alone will bring an end to the conflict.

Posted by: Jason | Aug 4 2023 21:11 utc | 112

Despite the rent for a single room in the UK being £800 a month, you try suggesting that high rents may be associated with a million extra people coming in each year.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Aug 4 2023 19:37 utc | 85
Indeed.
The need to preserve the holy “asset values” artificially inflated since the late 1970s is the driver of migration policy throughout “the West”. Unfortunately local young people are just too few to maintain occupancy rates…why have rent reductions to allow family formation when you can import ready-made families able to access benefits?

Posted by: Cortes | Aug 4 2023 21:13 utc | 113

Toby C | Aug 4 2023 17:31 utc | 48
SO tiresome to read Barflies still regurgitating the same old lines.
Nahzee = EVUL!!
Do Barflies not read any “alternative history” of the Great War(s)?
Are Barflies not aware that the British planted >100 propagandists in USA to drive USA to war (even as the mustachioed Austrian was celebrated on TIME), against the wishes of the great majority of Americans? (Lynn Olsen affords her townhouse in Georgetown on proceeds from writing about “those angry days” when FDR shut down Charles Lindbergh; when FDR used a fake map provided by those British propagandists to “warn” the American people that “Germans were planning to invade USA heartland via Central America, in order to frighten the People into a war they DID NOT WANT.

Posted by: ChasMark | Aug 4 2023 21:14 utc | 114

@ ChasMark | Aug 4 2023 21:14 utc | 115
All true, and yet none of it makes the Nazis any
less “EVUL.”

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 4 2023 21:21 utc | 115

Salaam to all at this bar.Ed @63, it was daddy Bush / James Baker 3rd, not sleazy Bill at the time of Gorby- and the ” not one inch to the east” gentleman’s agreement.As the exceptionals later stated- “it was not in writing” hah hah ha Gorby was fooled.The Russians learnt and remembered this game-Minsk 1&2 Merkel / Hollande.Fool me once shame on ! Your on track otherwise.The excepationalist are the one who are not agreement capable!
Posted by: 4Q8 | Aug 4 2023 19:24 utc | 79
—————————————————-
4Q8 I think you misunderstood my comment. You are correct that Daddy Bush and James Baker made the original promise, but it was BILL CLINTON that first broke the promise by Daddy Bush to not expand NATO one inch to the EAST.
Baby Bush later add seven more nations to the NATO merry go round: of Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia, all former Warsaw Pact countries. Baby BUSH also announced, on his way out of office, that Goergia and Ukraine would be next in line to join the NATO alliance. Later this would be confirmed by US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg at a NATO Defense Ministers meeting in Brussels, October 21, 2008.
Some people may think that when a US President makes a solemn promise to another nation, it should mean something. The next president should not be breaking such promises except under great threat to the US. That was never the situation for the US until the US Maidan coup in 2014 and the NAZI war against the Russian people of South and Eastern Ukraine: but you know all that anyway.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 4 2023 21:26 utc | 116

malenkov | Aug 4 2023 19:25 utc | 81–
Of course, some know the original Progressives were Republicans and that Progressivism was a modified form of Conservatism. The apolitical Social Gospel Movement few today know about merged with the Progressives in the 1920s and were the base for what became known as the New Dealers in the 1930s.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 21:41 utc | 117

None of these polls describe normal distribution. The stories that accompany “data visualization” are long, because the sample size of respondents is … a inadequate.

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 4 2023 21:53 utc | 118

The crazy thing is being Maerican and thinking there is any difference between the parties, or that Republicant = right and Demograft = left. It’s as inane as the Greens and Blues in Constantinople and likely to end in a similar way.
Outside of wedge issues domestically, there is no difference between the parties. They’re all fascist enablers of Empire and mass murder. Two sides of the same coin.
Maerica is going to go down in the history books as having a mob more illiterate and insensible than that of ancient Rome, as well as a voracious and insatiable ruling class of bloodthirsty scumbags. Who will be the Gibbon of the future? He or she will likely be Chinese or Russian.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 4 2023 21:56 utc | 119

@ob | Aug 4 2023 19:56 utc | 90
What a change from the Vietnam War era when the younger generation was vehemently opposed to the war and the older ones were supportive. The main factor back then was that young American boys and men were at real risk of being sent to fight in the war.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 4 2023 20:43 utc | 105
———————————————————–
Also, the younger generation that either served or protested the Vietnam war are now the older generation that is generally opposed to war, both Democratic and Republican.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 4 2023 22:04 utc | 120

As with every Poll, what was the misleading question?
“Would you support American/European/Polish troops being sent to the Glorious War in Ukraine, naturally, excluding you, personally, from the draft and fighting in the front lines?”
On a side note, I spoke with a business friend, whose Anglicized name translated directly to Cossack. He told me his family originally came from Ukraine, although some of the family claimed they were Polish. I didn’t want to start the discussion of Russia-supporting Cossacks nor Russian Cossacks.
Unsurprisingly DNA likely would show a lot of Europeans with unexpected ancestors. Including Mongols.

Posted by: kupkee | Aug 4 2023 22:05 utc | 121

@ karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 21:41 utc | 118
Well, yes. There was a time — long ago — when the Republican Party attracted sensible, decent, and above all thoughtful people. (Don’t get me wrong; neither party does that now.) There was even a time when the Republicans weren’t programmatically racist…

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 4 2023 22:08 utc | 122

kupkee | Aug 4 2023 22:05 utc | 122–
Including Africans!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 22:09 utc | 123

I have been mystified by how whole-hearted and uncritical acceptance of security establishment letter agencies, neoconservative foreign policy, and corporatism has become the sine qua non of being ‘progressive’. It’s quite creepy really.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 16:07 utc | 22
it’s awful. they got there on our sweat and tears and now they betray us and allow a whole generation of “kids” to be ok with not knowing even recent history, of cheerleading killing hundreds of thousands, in this war alone, of having absolute trust in the corporate media lies, apparently. i thought the young were the ones on alternative media. apparently not. i wrote bernie again after he voted down the rand paul accountability bill, just letting him know how awful his betrayal is.
phew.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Aug 4 2023 22:11 utc | 124

@ psychohistorian | Aug 4 2023 18:04 utc | 57
I am not paid to post and I think you have arrived at a severe misinterpretation of my remark.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 22:21 utc | 125

Gen Z (and many millenials) think in meme’s and have the attention span of a tweet. Their sense of history was what happened yesterday. Life is a video game played out on a cell phone screen.
Technology and the horrible US education system has a lot to do with these pro-war results.
Historically, it was youth – who had to fight them – who opposed wars created by the old men.
It is interesting to contrast the youth support for war with their lack of support for Biden. Do they even know that this is Biden’s war?

Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 4 2023 22:22 utc | 126

@ psychohistorian | Aug 4 2023 18:04 utc | 57
I am not paid to post and I think you have arrived at a severe misinterpretation of my remark.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 22:22 utc | 127

@ psychohistorian | Aug 4 2023 18:04 utc | 57
I am not paid to post and I think you have arrived at a severe misinterpretation of my remark.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 22:22 utc | 128

Well, well, despite Western sanctions, Russia managed to strut its stuff and secure a spot among the world’s top five economies. Talk about defying expectations! According to the latest World Economics report, Russia even claimed the title of the largest economy in Europe in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) by the end of 2022. Looks like those sanctions didn’t quite have the desired effect. Russia’s economic resilience deserves a round of applause, don’t you think?
Russia flaunted an impressive gross domestic product of $5.51 trillion in PPP terms. Someone’s been working hard to make those numbers shine! Looks like the figure decided to go big and show off its 38% increase, leaving the official estimate in the dust at a mere $3.993 trillion. Talk about an overachiever!

Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 4 2023 22:35 utc | 129

xblob | Aug 4 2023 17:25 utc | 46
That Gen-Z is pro war means only that they have forgotten what war is.

They haven’t “forgotten”. They weren’t born or were infants the last time there was a war (of significance).
They weren’t born for 9/11 (or were at best in kindergarten)…
Like Piers Morgan, trying to goad Jackson Hinkle, about his opinion on Saddam invading Kuwait.
Jackson replied: “I’m 23,…. My opinion on that was not fully formed at the time…[/s… for the literalists who cannot detect irony, ever]
Gen-Z don’t understand “we” were lied into Iraq (and almost all wars).
They think 9/11 is “cool” because seeing exploding buildings is always fun, and the twin towers were ugly anyway. 9/11, to them, is a video game with shit pixels.
Desert Storm is fun, because they only know it from movies, and Iraq is a shithole anyway…
Of course they need a war that impacts them personally before they realise war is not just cool explosions in a vidya game.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 4 2023 22:36 utc | 130

It appears that Gen-Z has a knack for blurring the lines between reality and virtual realms. To them, the Ukraine war might just be another captivating level in their digital adventures or a plot twist straight out of Hollywood.
In a world where video games, virtual reality, and social media reign supreme, it’s no surprise that they find it harder to differentiate between the epic battles of pixels and the weighty struggles of real life and death war in Ukraine – the digital realm and the physical realm, once distinct, now engaged in a blurry tango. Gen-Z, berflies, has become quite the connoisseur of this dance, so much so that they’ve grown rather immune to the brutal truths of war and its catastrophic aftermath.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 4 2023 22:45 utc | 131

The ‘progressive left’ is an expression that should be junked. It is not ‘progressive’ in any sense other than the one which sees ‘progress’ as the inexorable dismantling of all customary and symbolic meanings (i.e., corrosive capitalism). And it is not ‘left’ in any sense other than some vaguely Rousseau-ist sense, which is demolished by G.Tamás in “Telling the Truth about Class” Socialist Register (2006).
What is commonly called (in a cringingly ignorant way) ‘cultural Marxism’ or ‘progressive left’ (or whatever) is in fact the mutation of postmodernism (the cultural logic of late capitalism—see Frederic Jameson NLR 1984) into the hegemonic ideology of the new Cold War (with all its attendant McCarthyite censorialism). The best on this in my view is Chris Mott’s white paper for the Institute for Peace and Diplomacy (https://peacediplomacy.org/) entitled “Woke Imperium:
The Coming Confluence Between Social Justice & Neoconservatism” (June 2022). It’s spot on.

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 4 2023 22:54 utc | 132

The next president should not be breaking such promises except under great threat to the US. That was never the situation for the US until the US Maidan coup in 2014 and the NAZI war against the Russian people of South and Eastern Ukraine: but you know all that anyway.
Posted by: Ed | Aug 4 2023 21:26 utc | 117
Sorry. I don’t quite get it. It reads like you’re saying that come 2014 the US was ‘under great threat’ ?

Posted by: arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 22:59 utc | 133

Interesting poll numbers. Totalitarian regimes always strive to capture the young. Clearly they have succeeded in the US. In a real sense National Socialism can be thought of as a youth movement.
But ultimately the forces at work in the world today are demonic. When people no longer acknowledge God, their souls become open to demonic influence. Even if people do not obey God, but still acknowledge Him – as most did in the past – there is a constraint on those influences. Thats all gone now in the West.
What a privilege it is to be alive and be witness to this unfolding right before our eyes.

Posted by: danf51 | Aug 4 2023 23:00 utc | 134

Posted by: arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 20:32 utc | 104
Yes, indeed.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 4 2023 23:02 utc | 135

@ arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 20:32 utc | 104
I think if you asked either west-Ukrainians or people in Donbas ‘who are the Ukrainian nation?’you would get answers at odds with what you expect.
I.e. both would disavow Donbassians being Ukrainian.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 23:10 utc | 136

January 6 and 500 PlayStation 5s
Americans do not want war. They want PlayStation. If anyone wanted to start a revolution in the United States all they need to do is announce that they are giving away 5000 PlayStation 5s on Capitol Hill.
The main news story in the USA today seems to be a “riot” in the park at Union Square in lower Manhattan. 21-year old “YouTube influencer” Kai Cenat was giving away 300 PlayStations. A few thousand teenagers gathered, predominantly Black or Colored. Some people climbed to the roof of a subway entrance. The NYPD panicked and declared the gathering an unlawful riot. Police in riot gear then started to chase away Black teenagers, resulting in some violence.
Parks and squares are public places. It is normal for urbanites to gather in public places in larger and smaller crowds. Sometimes these events get out of control. Very often these out-of-control stampedes happen because of mistakes by the police or authorities.
I was watching CBS News live stream from the event. I was shocked by the accusatory tone of the newscasters. It almost sounded racist.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 4 2023 23:15 utc | 137

I find this essay, “WHY IS THE WEST SO WEAK (AND RUSSIA SO STRONG)? THE ROLE OF HUMAN CAPITAL AND WESTERN EDUCATION” to be germane to this topic and beyond. I’ve written before about the promotion of a nation’s human capital to be its primary goal assuming a normal functioning government of the sort that existed prior to the rise of Neoliberalism. The author, Gaius Baltar, goes well beyond my shallow notes on the topic to get at the root, which was actually observed and society warned about during the late 1940s into the 1950s by the last of the independent Hollywood/New York cinematographers, Frank Capra being a ready example. Here’s a short excerpt from the beginning portion of the section titled “The western purging of competence”:

Modern western society is from a governance standpoint ideologically motivated and ideologically controlled. It is being pushed in a very clearly defined ideological direction, led by the European Union and the current US administration. This ideology is not the subject matter of this article, but it can be seen everywhere by any rational and independent-thinking person. For the uninformed-curious a good place to start is the website of the EU’s policy-making body; the World Economic Forum.
In order to achieve these ideological goals for the West, two things must happen: a) The right people must be put into power at all levels of society and b) any disruptive elements must be eliminated or suppressed. Since all ideological goals tend to be more or less in conflict with reality, there is no group more disruptive to them than the one who operates objectively and independently. People like that simply cannot be allowed into positions of power, and if they must be, they must be kept quiet and/or forced to toe the line.
The objective/rational/general competence group, whether it is 1.5% or 8% of the population, therefore becomes a problem rather than a resource. This is exactly the situation in the West today.
Many people have noticed that meritocracy has been systematically abandoned in the West and the relationship between competence and reward severed in giant swaths of the economy – and almost completely in government. What few people seem to realize is that this is a necessity for the West’s ideological goals to be reached. High-level competence cannot be promoted because it is a threat. It cannot therefore be rewarded. [Emphasis Original]

Prior to reading this I read this Strategic-Culture editorial, and the image of Proles marching back to their homes after their shifts happy to drink Victory Gin and feast on roast cabbage while the one knowing their reality both loathed them while hating the fact that he knew reality–viewing myself as a Winston Smith character from the 3rd person wondering how to solve the intractable dilemma. The Proles are those in the polls and other Yes wo/men completely detached from reality. And while knowing most of the why answer, I happened upon the linked essay which explains the vast majority of the dilemma.
Every genuine barfly will want to read Gaius’s essay.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 23:21 utc | 138

geoff chambers | Aug 4 2023 20:29 utc | 102
***Explanations won’t be forthcoming for many years, I fear.***
Warmongers and … peculiar sorts of persons … in almost total monopoly control of mass media, including social and ‘entertainments’ media. Politicians regardless of which establishment party label constantly reinforcing that deluge. Advertisers and educators wokist as well, not to mention big companies, banks, shops etc.
Plus a massive number of professional, western establishment (including military) bots to 24/7 sheepdog the lot, or disrupt any potential opposition to the one and only permitted line.
Then there’s the Achilles heeel of what remains of the “older” Left to exploit — they can all too easily be derailed with well timed squeals of “that’s racism” or the un-pc like …. while the socially conservative non-left takes its lead from the USA in tending to call everything it thinks is negative “communist” — which what they object to usually isn’t, instead it being deranged monopoly-capitalist LIBERAL cultism.
As for the inflicters of the wokist etc. destruction (as well as related war propaganda), at first it may have seemed they were just acting a role — temporarily adopting an unscrupulous means to an end — but the attack by those who rule and their agents upon the general public has become so extreme and fanatical, with potentially permanent consequences, that it is clear those at the rotten top of the power structure, and those who apply their (smometimes covert) dictates, really *are* themselves a transnational, mutually-sustaining network of warped psychopaths, traitors and criminals.

Posted by: Cynic | Aug 4 2023 23:36 utc | 139

But ultimately the forces at work in the world today are demonic. When people no longer acknowledge God, their souls become open to demonic influence. Even if people do not obey God, but still acknowledge Him – as most did in the past – there is a constraint on those influences. Thats all gone now in the West.
What a privilege it is to be alive and be witness to this unfolding right before our eyes.
Posted by: danf51 | Aug 4 2023 23:00 utc | 135
—————————————————–
Fuck, I lost my wigi board, how will I summons my demons tonight.
“What a privilege it is to be alive and be witness to this unfolding right before our eyes.” I thought you folks were supposed to be raptured up to heaven before the good stuff happens.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 5 2023 1:00 utc | 141

GS: I don’t want to engage in the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, but it seems to me that anyone who has thoughtfully internalized the American progressivist tradition would be a Democrat with only the greatest reluctance, if at all.
Posted by: Malenkov | Aug 4 2023 19:25 utc | 81
————————————————–
I don’t disagree with you about the Democratic Party, but what the hell does the GOP have to offer: Trump? A pox on both houses.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 5 2023 1:08 utc | 142

re: bevin | Aug 4 2023 16:40 utc | 38
you wrote: “One big difference between Russia, the US and (almost)any NATO state you choose to mention is that in the coming elections Russia is the one place where the ruling party is likely to be re-elected. Biden can’t say that, neither can Scholtz or Sunak.
As long as the Dominion voting/cheating machines remain in place, along with the mail-in ballots for all, then the ruling party in the US will remain in power. They will not allow an “election” to take place that would cause them to be kicked out of office.

Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 5 2023 1:16 utc | 143

Ed @143: “…but what the hell does the GOP have to offer: Trump?”
Intentional or not, Trump is a wrecking ball. Some people like that in a candidate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 5 2023 1:17 utc | 144

Welcome back folks and Bernie, sorry Larry Page I think, we crached ALALPHABET little bit
Raalph
BTW ZET MISS HIM,

Posted by: Raaalph | Aug 5 2023 1:25 utc | 145

Intentional or not, Trump is a wrecking ball. Some people like that in a candidate.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 5 2023 1:17 utc | 145
Being as wrecking ball is his most useful characteristic.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 5 2023 1:28 utc | 146

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 23:21 utc | 139
Great catch. Thxs.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 5 2023 1:40 utc | 147

If Russia is dragging this out thinking the West will tire of supporting Ukraine, they can think again. The West can pretty much support this war indefinitely. The US prints them money, NATO ships them weapons, and mercenaries and volunteers seem to be streaming into Ukraine to fight the Russians.
Just recently one of the Republican contenders for President (Chris Cristie) flew to Ukraine with blue and yellow flowers in his hand.
Posted by: bored | Aug 4 2023 19:37 utc | 86
I laughed out loud when you used Chris Cristie to buttress your point. It would be difficult to find anyone in the US who thinks of Christie as being anything other than a morbidly obese, disgusting, neocon moron of the highest order, who is utterly irrelevant politically or in any other way.

Posted by: lunarlaundromat | Aug 5 2023 1:45 utc | 148

Just recently one of the Republican contenders for President (Chris Cristie) flew to Ukraine with blue and yellow flowers in his hand.
Posted by: bored | Aug 4 2023 19:37 utc | 86
That fat f*ck is just a butt-hurt, jealous, POS windbag. He’s got no chance and to call him a contender is to stretch the definition of the word.

Posted by: Phil R | Aug 5 2023 2:04 utc | 149

If Russia is dragging this out thinking the West will tire of supporting Ukraine, they can think again. The West can pretty much support this war indefinitely. The US prints them money, NATO ships them weapons, and mercenaries and volunteers seem to be streaming into Ukraine to fight the Russians.
Posted by: bored | Aug 4 2023 19:37 utc | 86
——————————————————–
Are you talking about the country that was brought to its knees because greedy banks and crooked financiers turned home loans with variable interest rates into junk bonds and sold them all over the world?
Are you talking about the country that could not finish (or win) a war in North Korea, South Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, even though these countries were economically and militarily inferior to the country that you are talking about, the great and magnificent world hegemon: The United States of America?
The country that brags about being the “exceptional nation”, but it can’t even provide universal health care for its citizens but can spare a few billion dollars for an unprovoked proxy war in Ukraine. Hey bored: fuck you.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 5 2023 2:06 utc | 150

The US Senate just passed the Black Sea Security Bill, essentially NATOizing and weaponizing the Black Sea ‘and littoral states’ against Russian aggression or some such tripe.
https://actmedia.eu/daily/us-senate-passes-black-sea-security-bill/104169
The proposal to “establish a continuous NATO presence” in the Black Sea seemed worrisome and provocative to me. Like WWIII worrisome and provocative. Oddly, nobody in the west seems to be talking about this in the least, even though this seems like the exact kind of set-up for an ‘incident’ to kick of WWIII. I actually heard about it from Romanian sources who seem enthusiastic about the prospects of NATO missile cruisers bobbing just offshore.
Then I stumbled upon the United World web site, where a Yunus Soner, a Turkish Political Scientist, interviews Deniz Kutluk, a retired Rear Admiral of the Turkish Naval Forces in an Aug. 1st article titled NATO presence in Black Sea “triggers Third World War” where the situation is considered related to Turkiye. So, an anti-NATO view from Turkiye (vs. official Turkiye ‘playing both sides’ chatter).
https://uwidata.com/31113-nato-presence-in-black-sea-triggers-third-world-war/
No idea about United World or the author. Just thought it was an interesting Turkish view of the situation, where Kutluk seemed to dismiss the US actions as 1) another in a long line of similar past proclamations leading to nothing, and 2) saber-rattling that the US and NATO lackeys are unwilling and likely unable to follow through with actions. Although if the US did go full retard and sail in attempting to ‘secure’ the Black Sea (or parts of it) with any permanence, it would most certainly lead directly engaging militarily with Russia and WWIII. Russia would certainly have none of it.
While I have heard of all the past provocative US ‘exercises’ in the Black Sea, they seemed to be of limited duration. A quick bear poke and a port visit followed by a hasty exit. Especially if Su-24s are buzzing your ship frying your nice, shiny new Aegis radars. Never knew of past declarations to strategically own the Black Sea, save for our failed past plans to build large US Naval ports in Crimea and the Azov Sea. Some sort of little green men issues prevented that.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 5 2023 2:07 utc | 151

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 4 2023 22:54 utc | 133
That’s my boy! Preach on truth teller!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 5 2023 2:11 utc | 152

I laughed out loud when you used Chris Cristie to buttress your point. It would be difficult to find anyone in the US who thinks of Christie as being anything other than a morbidly obese, disgusting, neocon moron of the highest order, who is utterly irrelevant politically or in any other way.
Posted by: lunarlaundromat | Aug 5 2023 1:45 utc | 149
I responded to bored before I even read your post. Guess the initial unofficial poll results are in.

Posted by: Phil R | Aug 5 2023 2:12 utc | 153

Follow up question to that 1/3 that approve sending troops to Ukraine is to ask them to then point out exactly where Ukraine is kn a world map. results wont shock anyone

Posted by: hankster | Aug 5 2023 2:22 utc | 154

Christie , didnt he admit being a crack addict and somehow justified it all away without any consequences. ? i guess with the biden family he fits right in to DC politics

Posted by: hankster | Aug 5 2023 2:24 utc | 155

I took a look at the questions in one of the polls. Typical biased nonsense to get a mild response. Nothing hard hitting here. No “Do YOU want to go and fight in Ukraine?” Sending your military? Well that’s their job isn’t it? NO “If you knew 300,000 Ukrainians have been killed would you still want to go?” And as for “We are tired of funding it!” How do they think the Russians and Ukrainians feel.

Posted by: Inki | Aug 5 2023 2:31 utc | 156

“Prior to reading this I read this Strategic-Culture editorial, and the image of Proles marching back to their homes after their shifts happy to drink Victory Gin and feast on roast cabbage while the one knowing their reality both loathed them while hating the fact that he knew reality–viewing myself as a Winston Smith character from the 3rd person wondering how to solve the intractable dilemma. The Proles are those in the polls and other Yes wo/men completely detached from reality. And while knowing most of the why answer, I happened upon the linked essay which explains the vast majority of the dilemma.
Every genuine barfly will want to read Gaius’s essay.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 23:21 utc | 139
——————————————————-
karlof, that was an interesting commentary about how the working stiffs (the proletariat class) must be subdued, controlled, and above all else divided. All though you didn’t say it, I am sure you know the working class (proles) must be subdued, controlled, and divided with booze, drugs, 24-hour entertainment such as TV, radio, the internet, porno on demand, unhealthy foods, propaganda news and films, and racism etc. etc.
But karlof, do you know why the proles must be controlled, subdued, and divided (I suspect that you do). It is because the proles are in fact the most revolutionary class on the planet earth, and should it develop a class-consciousness realization of that reality it becomes the most dangerous opposition to the capitalist class.
The majority of all the people on planet Earth are workers, farmers, and peasants. They are the majority, and if they decide to take control of any phony “bourgeois democratic” state through the ballet box, it would be cataclysmic for the capitalist ruling class. They would not accept it and they would wage a serious civil war to prevent it.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 5 2023 2:46 utc | 157

It was not long ago that the chorus could be heard about this sleepy-eyed generation that “how nice they were. The future seems so kind.” But you can accept every look a fashion magazine can bring, you can accept every kind of sex, drug, art, as long as it is loud, loud, loud. “This is what diversity looks like.” Indeed it does. And what a lack of diversity of opinion and thought. “Putin hates gays.” Ah, let me go get my testicles blown off in a trench for the gays.
“If only the world would like get together and stop hating each other.”
Since the 60’s it was, my parents are stupid and we’re going to do this world peace thing right. But the apple never falls far from the tree.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 5 2023 3:11 utc | 158

In response to PavewayIV@152,
I read through the bill, and it sounds like the US is preparing for Ukraine to be cut off from the Black Sea as a fait accompli, with Russia set to further ramp up its Black Sea presence and Turkey less than willing to play the role of primary counterweight in the region. So the idea is to have a state dept representative pressure Georgia, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey to expand their naval presence at least 4 times a year, so as not to completely cede the Black Sea to Russia, with US vessels showing themselves in or near the Black Sea once in a while for confidence building purposes. There also seems to be an undercurrent of concern at the potential loss of influence in the Mediterranean unless these measures are successful.

Posted by: Skiffer | Aug 5 2023 3:23 utc | 159

A total of 31 percent of eligible voters in the U.S. support or strongly support American military forces heading to the battlefields of Ukraine, polling conducted exclusively for Newsweek by Redfield & Wilton Strategies has revealed.
Who cares. They dont have to go themselves or send their own kids, they would just send illegal immigrants dying for a green cards and assorted LBGTs so good riddance. Reinstate the draft and then tell me what the polls say.

Posted by: gatobart | Aug 5 2023 3:28 utc | 160

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2023 23:21 utc | 139
Aspiring to attain the rank of “genuine barfly”, I read the prescribed essay.
Meh. …. [Sorry Karl].
…U$NATO {conceal} ghoulish losses because …… would entail incurring an almighty political backlash from the Western public.…
Nope.
The only “fighting” anyone around me is concerned with, is the competition for the best parking spots at the local farmers market.
Ukraine is as far from people’s concern as Uranus. In fact, I’m prepared to believe more people are “concerned” about what may be happening on Uranus than in Ukraine.
I don’t know about Europe, but it’s very easy here to just erase Ukraine by simply not reporting anything more about it. Less than a month out of the headlines, and it never happened. Already people have forgotten the Covid gulags.
None of the Ukrainian/Russia concerns raised in the S-C piece are of any concern to more than 0.05% of the population here, IMVHO.
And remember. In a Madeline Albright world, if it takes 10 dead Ukrainians to achieve one dead Russian, then the price is “worth it”.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 5 2023 4:16 utc | 161

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 16:07 utc | 22
This is how I went from being a Sanders supporter to a Marxist.

Posted by: Colin | Aug 5 2023 4:20 utc | 162

Posted by: polarbear4 | Aug 4 2023 22:11 utc | 125
Considering his cozy relationship with the military-industrial complex, he would just be another imperialist president even if elected, just like Trump who only gives lip service.

Posted by: Colin | Aug 5 2023 4:24 utc | 163

Lol Polls
Why would anyone think polls are worth anything nowadays????

Posted by: Comandante | Aug 5 2023 4:42 utc | 164

Ed | Aug 5 2023 2:46 utc | 158–
I’ve been promoting the idea of the Century of the Common Man since I first learned of it back in 1971. It was the program promoted by Henry Wallace, FDR’s VP who was purged to allow Truman. I just republished my short 2020 essay about him, “Revisiting Henry Wallace’s Century of The Common Man”. I worked with the common men in the fields of California and later during the rise of Silicon Valley. I then employed and managed common men and women, and then I tried to educate them. So, I’m well acquainted with common folk since that’s essentially what I am, and that’s why I never cease promoting us.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2023 5:09 utc | 165

Melaleuca | Aug 5 2023 4:16 utc | 162–
Sorry Melaleuca; Gaius’s essay is the one meriting reading. The editorial merely supplied “mood” to what I’d just read.
PavewayIV | Aug 5 2023 2:07 utc | 152–
My ol’ pay PavewayIV! good to read your words. However, NATO already has a massive “presence” in the Black Sea merely from Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania. Yeah, I know the idiocy came from Congress, but what do you expect? How does that gibe with the Establishment Narrative saying the Putin’s lost? Doesn’t it contradict it? Russia has stand-off weapons greater than any fleet NATO might muster by a factor of 6-8 or so. Oh, but wait–isn’t Russia out of missiles?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2023 5:19 utc | 166

With respect to b for compiling the three poll aspects, I would echo Comandante:
“Why would anyone think polls are worth anything nowadays????”
Posted by: Comandante | Aug 5 2023 4:42 utc | 165
My objection stems from all the polls which were meant to convince us that the Candidate of Choice in this or that previous race to the US Presidency was way ahead and there was no use fighting it as There was obviously No Alternative.
Perhaps b was reminding us that it all comes down to the integrity of the ballot box.
But that does segue to karlof1’s reposting of his essay on Henry Wallace’s Four Freedoms speech above. I was struck by the mention of debt as a tangible limitation of freedom in that speech. I would like to draw attention to a recent essay by Yves Smith, but as that perhaps takes us beyond this subject thread, I will attempt to do so on the current Open thread from two days back.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 5 2023 5:45 utc | 167

Reinstate the draft and then tell me what the polls say.
Posted by: gatobart | Aug 5 2023 3:28 utc | 161
Oh, that will happen. It will include women too.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 5 2023 5:51 utc | 168

@ karlof1 | Aug 5 2023 5:09 utc | 166 with a link to his latest Substack which all barflies should read
Where are the humanistic Henry Wallace speakers of today? Tucker Carlson is not it. Jimmy Dore?
@ PavewayIV | Aug 5 2023 2:07 utc | 152–
I agree with Karl that this is a propaganda piece by the Senate that will never have a House version but contains great sounding rhetoric from the skim I did. The Black Sea would be an interesting shooting gallery….grin
It is hard to be patient with the pace of our civilization war but when one thinks of the potential long term effects, having patience is a necessity…..can’t beat the bully by being a bully or there is no growth/change.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 5 2023 5:55 utc | 169

arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 20:32 utc | 104
Many thanks for your kind words and your comments. I have no idea why you weren’t able to comment on the substack because other people have done so. I’ll check it out.

Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Aug 5 2023 6:47 utc | 170

Just recently one of the Republican contenders for President (Chris Cristie) flew to Ukraine with blue and yellow flowers in his hand.
Posted by: bored | Aug 4 2023 19:37 utc | 86
That fat f*ck is just a butt-hurt, jealous, POS windbag. He’s got no chance and to call him a contender is to stretch the definition of the word.
Posted by: Phil R | Aug 5 2023 2:04 utc | 150
It reminds me a short YouTube of a small kitten trying to jump onto a kitchen counter, but falling pityfuly short of the goal, still, good effort at the tender age of two (?) weeks. My immediate thought was the Presidential candidacy of Niki Haley. Chris Christie is the same, except not cute at all. The reason that those candidates “run” is that each of them got a few millionaires supporting them, so they can have on TV and social media and money to fly around. Perhaps it is an interesting diversion to some. Christie could find more votes in Kiev than, say, in Delaware (like two, after plying them with booze?).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 5 2023 6:51 utc | 171

What if Russia has to keep the war going in order to ensure that Ukraine is not eligible for NATO membership?

Posted by: Laura Roslin | Aug 5 2023 6:56 utc | 172

@Doctor Eleven | Aug 4 2023 21:56 utc | 120
Concerning Gibbon as a wise historian
He was a learned historian but the way he used it was to encourage all the evil processes later followed by the British Imperialists
His advice was that in order for Britain to preserve its empire it ought to encourage the formation of cults within the rivals and play them.
Britain apparently followed Gibbon’s advice.
Came Taiping pseudoreligion, zionism (& british israelism) marxism fascism nazism radical islamism. Other highranking people from academia seemed to continue along similar lines. Like Arnold Toynbee offering his services to British intel for the dominance of the muslim world.
https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1979/eirv06n18-19790508/eirv06n18-19790508_014-muslim_brotherhood_londons_shock.pdf
I think Britain historically differs from the rivals in the way the intellectual elites have been employed as weapons of imperial dominance.
They also organised the US/UK media as direct instruments of power not for critisising it. And arranged for a monopoly of communications technology. This would seem to include the modern IT giants.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 5 2023 7:02 utc | 173

an effective non NATO Russia could target is the illegal US infrastructure in Syria stealing billions of Syria’s sovereign oil. Hit the bully in the pocketbook. Assad would welcome the return of his stolen lands.

Posted by: Willow | Aug 5 2023 7:03 utc | 174

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 5 2023 7:02 utc | 175

His advice was that in order for Britain to preserve its empire it ought to encourage the formation of cults within the rivals and play them.
Britain apparently followed Gibbon’s advice. Came Taiping pseudoreligion, zionism (& british israelism)

Interesting. Will look into this in my research regarding the origins of the Khazarian Cabal.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 5 2023 7:21 utc | 175

171#
Correct me if I’m wrong, neither side has targeted merchant shipping before?
So has Ukraine just broadened the ‘war’?

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 5 2023 7:27 utc | 176

I wonder what the answers would be if the questions were.
Would you support paying extra taxes to fund ukraines war effort.
And
Would you support sending a family member to join the war and fight on. Half of Ukraine.

Posted by: Forte Shades | Aug 5 2023 7:51 utc | 177

Posted by: arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 20:32 utc | 104
Yes, indeed.
Posted by: juliania | Aug 4 2023 23:02 utc | 136
@ arthur brogard | Aug 4 2023 20:32 utc | 104
I think if you asked either west-Ukrainians or people in Donbas ‘who are the Ukrainian nation?’you would get answers at odds with what you expect.
I.e. both would disavow Donbassians being Ukrainian.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 4 2023 23:10 utc | 137
Listen to/watch a representative human Donbas Ukrainian express the very thought https://ukrainehonesty.com/donetsk.mp4

Posted by: arthur brogard | Aug 5 2023 7:52 utc | 178

But ultimately the forces at work in the world today are demonic. When people no longer acknowledge God, their souls become open to demonic influence. Even if people do not obey God, but still acknowledge Him – as most did in the past – there is a constraint on those influences. Thats all gone now in the West.
What a privilege it is to be alive and be witness to this unfolding right before our eyes.
Posted by: danf51 | Aug 4 2023 23:00 utc | 135
—————————————————–
Fuck, I lost my wigi board, how will I summons my demons tonight.
“What a privilege it is to be alive and be witness to this unfolding right before our eyes.” I thought you folks were supposed to be raptured up to heaven before the good stuff happens.
Posted by: Ed | Aug 5 2023 1:00 utc | 142
That’s a bit of a laugh, danf, isn’t it? like iron filing to a magnet one of the demon imps is drawn immediately to your post.
I think the situation is a lot better than you might think.
The NDE thing as represented by the YT output is almost reaching epidemic proportions and it, I think, tells an indisputable truth that doesn’t fuss with any trappings of religion, any rituals, any heirarchies, any ‘good books’, and ‘mysteries’ requiring the specially enlightened to explain, any extraneous nonsense whatever. Is simply an accumulation of now thousands of accounts of personal experience all telling the same story of one fundamental from which all comes and to which all necessarily returns and with a certain nature.
THAT force is at work in the world today.
Yes, the ‘dark forces’ seem to be in control most particularly in the USA but they are not really, not at all. The world is much bigger than the USA and those demonic beings in charge there are not in charge because the whole of the USA is demonic but only because the whole of the USA is asleep.
Drugged by sugar and Hollywood and overeating. Serious enough drugs to put a whole population of 300 million to sleep yet trivial enough that they could throw them off overnight with a burst of realisation flooding through the national consciousness. And guess what: with the smartphone and the internet for the first time in the whole history of the human race that is an imminent possibility at any time.

Posted by: arthur brogard | Aug 5 2023 8:22 utc | 179

“Baby BUSH also announced, on his way out of office, that Goergia and Ukraine would be next in line to join the NATO alliance. Later this would be confirmed by US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg at a NATO Defense Ministers meeting in Brussels, October 21, 2008.”
Posted by: Ed | Aug 4 2023 21:26 utc | 117
Since you were trying to make things clear to 4Q8, should that not read:
‘Baby BUSH also announced, at a NATO Defense Ministers meeting in Brussels, October 21, 2008, on his way out of office, that Goergia and Ukraine would be next in line to join the NATO alliance. Later this would be confirmed by US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg’?

Posted by: waynorinorway | Aug 5 2023 8:51 utc | 180

Co-incidence in the silly season, or co-ordinated messaging?
Ukraine counter-offensive two months in: Can it still succeed?
The state of Ukraine’s counter-offensive

Posted by: The Accountant | Aug 5 2023 8:57 utc | 181

Our Indifference To Ourselves’ – Beyond The ‘Virtue’ Of Self-Sacrifice – Part 1
https://www.medialens.org/2021/our-indifference-to-ourselves-beyond-the-virtue-of-self-sacrifice-part-1/
Our Indifference To Ourselves’ – Beyond The ‘Virtue’ Of Self-Sacrifice – Part 2
https://www.medialens.org/2021/our-indifference-to-ourselves-beyond-the-virtue-of-self-sacrifice-part-2/
Explains a lot of it.
A big part of it was also stupid parents competing with other parents so that their kids could have the best clothing labels in schools. Sending them to school with £100 trainers and £100 shirts and £200 jackets.
The marketing companies and now online influencers took advantage of these kids. When the left school and realised they could not afford any of this stuff or the nice house and fancy car.
Is it any wonder a large section of them suffer from anxiety and depression?

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 5 2023 8:58 utc | 182

Upon saying yes they or someone in their immediate family should be snatched off the streets and sent to meat grinder.
Idiot Americans.

Posted by: Battenmountain | Aug 5 2023 9:25 utc | 183

Posted by: The Accountant | Aug 5 2023 8:57 utc | 183
Co-ordinated silly season messaging. A lot of western propagandists take August as a holiday, so their newsrooms run on a ‘skeleton’ staff.
August holidays or sudden death from intercepting a missile may also be affecting HATO strategists as they appear to have given up with conventional military strategy and instead switched to a daily drone attack on Russian infrastructure.
If they happened in the western nations these attacks would be lambasted as ‘terrorism’ but in the Russia-hating west these are given front page coverage in an attempt to con the western public into believing plucky old Ukraine is still fighting hard. These pin pricks have little significance other than vandalism and some personal injury and tragedy, but they do motivate Nazi supporters to make childish gloating posts on MoA.
In material reality the de-nazification and de-militarisation of a Ukraine continues, for if there were any battlefield success for Ukraine that would be front page news. It isn’t.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Aug 5 2023 9:41 utc | 184

Posted by: waynorinorway | Aug 5 2023 8:51 utc | 182
After another look, Ed’s statement should probably just have the date at the end removed so to read:
“Baby BUSH also announced, on his way out of office, that Goergia and Ukraine would be next in line to join the NATO alliance. Later this would be confirmed by US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg at a NATO Defense Ministers meeting in Brussels.”

Posted by: waynorinorway | Aug 5 2023 9:41 utc | 185

Of course the merger between journalism and the Oligarchical Politics
https://www.medialens.org/2022/the-great-merger-the-rise-of-oligarchical-politics/
I like media lens John Pilger put me on to it. It is where left and right wing journalists went that got pushed out of the Telegraph and Guardian because of their views.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 5 2023 9:48 utc | 186

Is Pilger still active.
I thought the growth of alternative media would be great for him. The current shows should invite him on.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Aug 5 2023 10:23 utc | 187

What calls my attention is that in the USA, and in countries politically dominated by the USA, a scientific or medical curiosity is taken, blown out of all proportion, and used as a vehicle to implement policies.

Posted by: Passerby | Aug 5 2023 10:34 utc | 188

Given that the DOJ, the Federal judiciary, both parties, the alphabet intelligence services, medicine, media, education, entertainment, LE, the military and practically any other institution has been weaponised against political opponents, what are the chances of the polling companies resisting the corruption. Forget polls, look at figures you cannot skew, that reveal peoples real opinions. For an example look at the box office for ‘The Sound of Freedom’, ignored or attacked by the corporate media (due to its subject matter and political perspective) this film’s box office has topped $150 million, destroying the woke Indiana travesty and second only to MI (which features a plot about controlling and restricting information).
https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/sound-of-freedom-breaks-150-million-at-box-office.html
This film has only just begun to be shown in Latin America and other Spanish speaking countries, so could be heading for over $200 million. Now, unless a small number of Conservatives are going to the cinema repeatedly, these figures suggest that, in the quasi-totalitarian state, that the US has become, people are showing their beliefs more covertly now. The US Government is rapidly becoming a piñata administration.

Posted by: Milites | Aug 5 2023 10:40 utc | 189

@115
You seem under the misapprehension that the US went to war against Germany in 1941. You claim that the president dragged an unwilling people.e into that war is belied by the fact that the Axis powers in fact attacked the US in a planned and pre- agreed way. Japan attacted first, and the within days, in conformity with the Axis treaty, Germany declared war on the US and commenced to sink US ships off the East Coast.

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Aug 5 2023 10:42 utc | 190

Be interested to know how many supporters of US intervention ar Clintonites who still believe the sacred cow Hillary was telling the truth about Russian intervention in the 2016 election lost it for her rather than her arrogance, ignorance and stupidity.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 5 2023 10:44 utc | 191

Aug 5 2023 10:44 utc | 193
the us central committee did not cheat enough in 2026! in 2020 they printed enough ballots to steal the election.
had clinton stolen the election, russia would look like libya today!

Posted by: paddy | Aug 5 2023 10:56 utc | 192

@Figleaf23 50
yep
I didnt want to start commenting my own comment.
What surprises me most is Mearsheimer despite his military background buys into this stalemate nonsense (even if only for appearances). But as Mercouris has correctly pointed out, doing this in the public discussion is disastrous for the Ukrainians, if we talk about people being killed by this war. Which is incidentally what Mearsheimer wants to end (but knows well won´t really be able to.)
* * *
Anothe take on polls, less worse, by RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT:
“Most Americans don’t want Congress to approve more aid for Ukraine war”
Most say the US has ‘done enough’ to stop Russian actions, too.
August 4, 2023
Written by
Kelley Beaucar Vlahos
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2023/08/04/most-americans-dont-want-congress-to-approve-more-aid-for-ukraine-war/

Posted by: AG | Aug 5 2023 11:03 utc | 193

@Dr. Rob Campbell 52
thx here too. Nice summary.

Posted by: AG | Aug 5 2023 11:08 utc | 194

The media all lie. Mainstream and Alternative media. They all lie. Mainstream Media lies the most. The Alternative media does it for clickbaits and money. Just as despicable. Why anybody would even read anything “Newsweek” has to say, about anything, is beyond me. The BBC is reporting Ukraine just attacked another ship. This one a tanker. What’s that work out to? A ship a day? As “Sleepy Old” Joe Biden would say: “Come on people!”
We are in the very early innings of a World War. I give it another 8-years before somebody actually starts something.

Posted by: the blame-e | Aug 5 2023 11:14 utc | 195

Aug 5 2023 2:07 utc | 152
aegis/arleigh burke in black sea: unsafe for commercial airliners!
some nervous ensign in cic……

Posted by: paddy | Aug 5 2023 11:14 utc | 196

If you actually read the “Newsweek” article, the poll supports nothing — neither a majority of support for American boots on the ground in Ukraine, nor a preponderance of support for the Zelensky Regime and the Ukraine/Russo “conflict.” Reporting on the “Newsweek” poll is a masterpiece of propaganda nothingness.

Posted by: the blame-e | Aug 5 2023 11:20 utc | 197

@PavewayIV 152
thx re: Security Bill info!
I had heard of it just yesterday from Pepe Escobar since it must have been virtually unreported.
(Who on Earth is reading US Congress bills? Not foreign correspondents in Washington DC thats for sure)
Here the original government bill´s text,worthwhile to read it verbatim:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/804/text

Posted by: AG | Aug 5 2023 11:31 utc | 198

Posted by: Chas | Aug 4 2023 21:11 utc | 112
What is surprising about these polls is that they show the mighty Wurlitzer is not working. A year and a half of one of the biggest propaganda campaigns in the history of the world and the US ruling class can’t even generate a majority in favor of sending more war aid to the Ukraine. If the US ruling class can no longer use propaganda effectively to further its aims it is in big trouble.
Mighty Wurlitzer[MW] has been a major success? It function: divide the minds, thoughts, and deeds of the voting populations into smaller and smaller bits of independent bits of highly differentiated thought. Moving access to information from analog to digital, transforming institutions(schools, military and MSM) into organs of oligarch directed systems of propaganda, destroying assemblies because they do no conform (church, boy and girl scouts, etc.), forcing women from their homes<=destroyed the family, writing laws against purpose-oriented-group assembly [now Title 18 illegal conspiracies, etc.], running heavy industry out of the nation, etc. have all been part of destroying the independant non top down controlled elements; everyone and everybody is against everyone and everybody else. Few can read, everything is digitial, so access to unwanted history, science technology, and the social and governmental options in the world have been removed from the information environment. The MW, top-down globally controlled, intelligence agency coorodinated nation state governance, privatization of most state owned monopoly power, and the between nation and within nation worldwide Oligarch control systems have produced astounding results. On any subject little concensus exist..the life of everyone is planned..just as soon as the robots and artificial Intelligence can replace humans the human world will consist only of a few Oligarchs everyone else will be eliminated. Utopia will bypass the masses? The Gaius essay provided by Karlof1 says a lot: from the Article.. "Modern western society is from a governance standpoint ideologically motivated and ideologically controlled. It is being pushed in a very clearly defined ideological direction, led by the European Union and the current US administration". I was a child in the D. C. area during 1941-54..I experieced frist hand how society is downgraded from work-epic and knowledge-sharing competitive, to lazy, conforming and knowledge hording. Since then I have watched this transformation take place all over the world.

Posted by: snake | Aug 5 2023 11:47 utc | 199

Re: “had clinton stolen the election, russia would look like libya today!”
Posted by: paddy | Aug 5 2023 10:56 utc | 194
And the US would look like Iraq.
There’s still time. And new stolen elections to look forward to.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 5 2023 11:54 utc | 200