Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 15, 2023
How Will Trump’s Fourth Indictment – And RFK Jr. – Influence The Election Season?

Another month brings another indictment of Donald Trump:

ATLANTA — Former president Donald Trump and 18 others were criminally charged in Georgia in connection with efforts to overturn Joe Biden’s 2020 victory in the state, according to an indictment made public late Monday night.

Trump was charged with 13 counts, including violating the state’s racketeering act, soliciting a public officer to violate their oath, conspiring to impersonate a public officer, conspiring to commit forgery in the first degree and conspiring to file false documents.

With so much alleged conspiring should we call all these indictments a conspiracy theory?

This indictment is again too wide and borders on, like the others against Trump, criminalizing the retelling of rumors and free speech.

Just consider this part:

COUNT 29 of 41

And the Grand Jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse DONALD JOHN TRUMP with the offense of FALSE STATEMENTS AND WRITINGS, O.C.G.A. § 16-10-20, for the said accused, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on or about the 2nd day of January 2021, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, Georgia Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs, and Georgia Secretary of State General Counsel Ryan Germany:

  1. That anywhere from 250,000 to 300,000 ballots were dropped mysteriously into the rolls in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
  2. That thousands of people attempted to vote in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia and were told they could not because a ballot had already been cast in their name;
  3. That 4,502 people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia who were not on the voter registration list;
  4. That 904 people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia who were registered at an address that was a post ofiice box;
  5. That Ruby Freeman was a professional vote scammer and a known political operative;
  6. That Ruby Freeman, her daughter, and others were responsible for fraudulently awarding at least 18,000 ballots to Joseph R. Biden at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
  7. That close to 5,000 dead people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
  8. That 139% of people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Detroit;
  9. That 200,000 more votes were recorded than the number of people who voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Pennsylvania;
  10. That thousands of dead people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Michigan;
  11. That Ruby Freeman stuffed the ballot boxes;
  12. That hundreds of thousands of ballots had been "dumped" into Fulton County and another county adjacent to Fulton County in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
  13. That he won the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia by 400,000 votes;

said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, contrary to the laws of said State, the good order, peace and dignity thereof;

Even the Washington Post write-up finds that a bit too excessive:

The indictment takes an expansive view of the behaviors it alleges were acts “in furtherance of the conspiracy” — including, as an example, at least a dozen instances of Trump’s tweets alleging fraud and other claims. Such details from the indictment quickly drew criticism as potential violations of the defendants’ free speech protections.

Trials over these indictments, if any, will likely start only next year and will take quite a long time. Any judgment in them will be appealed.

All this will mean little for voters who mostly have made up their minds:

Yet most Americans made up their minds about Mr. Trump long before prosecutors like Fani T. Willis or Jack Smith weighed in, polls have shown. He is, depending on the perspective, a serial lawbreaker finally being brought to justice or a victim of persecution by partisans intent on keeping him out of office. The Georgia indictment, powerful as it is in its language, has been priced into the market, as the Wall Street types would put it.

“The accumulated indictments are kind of a white noise for voters,” said Sarah Longwell, a Republican political consultant who has organized opposition to Mr. Trump and conducts weekly focus groups with voters. “They can’t tell the difference between Georgia and Jack Smith because it all blurs together in one long news cycle of Trump’s-in-trouble.”

I believe, like Trump, that the indictment will help him. First in the primary and then in the general election:

Speaking to supporters in Alabama a couple of days after his last arraignment, [Trump] claimed he was looking forward to the next one. “We need one more indictment to close out this election,” he boasted.

That is bravado — the sort of bring-it-on bluster that electrifies a Trump rally.

Contrast that with the case and against the Bidens which will be laid out by a special prosecutor to the same public. As I wrote when the last bits about the Bidens-Burisma saga came to light:

On the one side we have a case which shows the deep corruption of 'the big guy' and his family who are supported by the deep state they control.

On the other side we have the underdog who thought he was doing the right thing but is now indicted by the deep state for, at that time, saying so.

The media will shine the light on both cases. Each time they will mention Trump it will, independent of what they write about him, be positive for him by making the case of the lone guy who gets unfairly prosecuted by the deep state.

Each time the Biden case will be mentioned it will remind the public of Biden's corrupt dealings.

Proceed through that for sixteen month and the outcome is assured.

Now add to that the possible quirks of the Democratic primary. RFK junior has entered that race:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has raised eyebrows as the first right-sympathetic populist to run as a Democrat since William Jennings Bryan. Launching with twenty paid staff and functioning now with seventy, Kennedy’s campaign has latched on to several issues important to mainstream Republicans—Covid tyranny, censorship, government surveillance—as well as to the dissident right: public health threats posed by chemicals in food and water, ending forever wars. The difference is the right frames these issues as matters of social cohesion and public order, while Kennedy uses the language of democracy and freedom.

In the currant fashion RJK Jr. is not really a Democrat:

When discussing the issues that animate him most—the environment, censorship, state and corporate collusion—he brightens. His hopeless intellectual humility and his hesitation to emphasize the most divisive ideological commitments of his own party while regularly taking up the language of his partisan opponents are setting up a general election that could divide populist voters almost entirely on the basis of aesthetics.

During the primaries the Democratic Party mafia will do their best to eliminate him even when he is unlikely to be a real danger to Joe Biden's candidacy.

Should Trump then consider to run for president with RFK Jr. as his future vice-president he could form a quasi bi-partisan populist ticket that might well attract a larger majority.

Comments

bill wolfe #77
“What the Dems did post 2016 (and 2000) elections objections were open, on the record, factual, in good faith, and in accordance with law.
What Trump’s people did was completely different. It was secret, conspiratorial, false, based on lies and false assertion, in bad faith, and illegal.”
It’s nice being able to define things as one imagines them as if one is putting forward philosophical assertions that need no evidence a la Wittgenstein … “in good faith and in bad faith”, eh? No eye-of-the-beholder concerns for you?
I don’t think anyone’s been as “on the record” as Trump has been on his objections, surely. And I guess “illegal” will be determined as we go forward.

Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 21:25 utc | 101

OT – i am presently 2/3rds thru an interesting documentary related to some of the commentary here.. it’s out of the uk.. 1 hr 30 minutes.
Adult Human Female

Posted by: james | Aug 15 2023 21:28 utc | 102

Posted by: JustAMaverick | Aug 15 2023 21:04 utc | 96
It’s truly breathtaking to behold in a morbid train wreck kind of way. I’m glad I am no longer a young man because I see nothing in our collective future but pain, suffering, chaos and death. There is no light at the end of this dark tunnel that I can see. No, none at all.
===================================================
I totally get where you are coming from.
But I disagree.
What is going on is the result of unvirtuous mentalities rising into leadership and dominating our societies – for generations now. Mentalities can create seemingly intractable conditions; but they can change rapidly as well.
It is like we are all under the influence of a spell. But the moment that spell is lifted, conditions change dramatically.
The first priority is for each of us one at a time to resist that spell and then get out from under it altogether. Tucker Carlson who has put himself forward as a leading proponent of truth in journalism still cannot bring himself to say forthrightly: ‘clearly what happened on January 6th was a seditious deception designed to stop the Congressional electors process which could have caused some of the results to go back to the States for re-evaluation in accordance with long-standing though rarely used procedures.’ He cannot say even that much even though it is obviously the case. Hardly anyone can say that much because the spell is so strong.
But it’s only a spell.
And all spells can be broken.
And when they are, reality shifts instantly.
Another thing: the power of goodness, held in the hearts of the masses, is generally invisible. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t there, nor that it isn’t powerful.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 15 2023 21:29 utc | 103

malenkov #100
On the LG and B I’d agree … besides, as you say, the corporacracy’s takeover of the issue is almost certainly another chapter of divide and rule (internally) and imperialism (externally.
However, the T and the Q … they genuinely feel like another kettle of fish, so to speak. There’s a level of derangement and alienation involved (and really a negation of some of the long term tenets of feminism and gay liberation in many ways) that seem ideally suited to the system’s desire for maximal disorientation and chaos.

Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 21:33 utc | 104

Sadly, Trump will never be indicted for murdering Soleimani.

Posted by: Wilikins | Aug 15 2023 21:33 utc | 105

Its ironic that having done their best to destablise countrys around the world, America is now destabilising itself.
Id also call it karma.
Hate ultimately is self distructive.
I get the feeling that Vladimiri Putin has seen this coming and planned acordingly. As far as im concerned thats a plus not a minus.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 15 2023 21:34 utc | 106

Electronic voting has been captured and phony paper ballots can be created for whatever amount is needed. So long as Dominion-esque machinery is used, deep-shitters and intel control, which usually means the dim running will win. Only Republican to win will be controlled. I believe that’s not Trump, otherwise they wouldnt be after him so hard.
I’d take another Trump administration long before anybody from the other side. Trump at worst is better than anything from D side.
But the only salvation will come from the Creator; and he may be sick of our shit.

Posted by: Dogtired | Aug 15 2023 21:43 utc | 107

@ Caliman | Aug 15 2023 21:33 utc | 104
Yes, there are matters wrt transsexuality in particular that so far resist easy solution. For instance — to choose one issue from among many — I can sympathize with a born-female athlete whose accomplishments are put in the shade by someone who identifies as female but has the musculature, genitalia, and quite possibly even the hormonal characteristics of a male.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 21:50 utc | 108

Scorpion | Aug 15 2023 21:29 utc | 103
I hope your right and that I’m wrong. With the rise of modern surveillance and AI I don’t think this spell will so easily be broken. You have more faith in the people of this country than I do. When I walk out my door I am confronted with ignorance, brainwashing and the cult of me at every turn. Most have been seduced into surrendering their critical thought to others and any concept that takes longer than thirty seconds to explain is beyond their ability listen too.
I think we hit the wall much sooner than peoples ability to adapt and overcome. Perhaps after the dust settles, those who survive it will come up with something better.

Posted by: JustAMaverick | Aug 15 2023 21:52 utc | 109

Wonder if all you bright folks have considered the Legal Profession is making out like bandits with all this political Lawfare wrangling. The hourly rate of these big firms is quite extraordinary.
Bet most were so busy tracking the events MSM thrusts under your nose to notice.
Perhaps compare to the Industrial Military Complex profit taking in times of armed conflict.
Think of it this way, the Vultures circling the carcass of Pax Americana.
That said, remember what Obama’s buddy Rahm Emanuel once said; “never let a crises go to waste”
Someone, and I don’t remember who said it, “Create crises, offer solutions”.
I remember now, what Shakespeare said..I’m old now, please forgive me my moments..
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answer’d it.
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest–
For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men–
Come I to speak in Caesar’s funeral.
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
He hath brought many captives home to Rome
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.

Posted by: bubbles | Aug 15 2023 21:53 utc | 110

Posted by: JustAMaverick | Aug 15 2023 21:52 utc | 110
I hope your right and that I’m wrong.
===============================================
If I had to bet, I’d bet on your side. But I think my point about what seems so solid and intractable is actually knit together as if by a spell is generally accurate. And spells can be broken and when they are things change extremely fast.
Think of it in reverse: remember how quickly our reality changed when the covid lock-downs were put in place and all the officials paraded around in masks? In a matter of days things changed in a huge way. Similarly, when war is declared in a country and the sirens scream overhead on that first night, a huge shift has rapidly occurred. Our collective realities, truly, are like dreams.
That said, just because it can change on a dime doesn’t mean that it will. Looks to me like 2024 in the US is going to be one of the most extreme (and bad) years in its already colourful history.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 15 2023 22:06 utc | 111

This train left the station a long time ago. All that we can do is await its inevitable arrival, most likely in the form of a terrible crash.
The electoral system isn’t broken, its fixed. And it has been for most of the history of the Republic. All that has changed is that, in recent years, thanks to technological advances, it has got easier to fix than ever before.
Anyone who thinks that the controversy over the ballots cast in 2020 is new has just not been paying attention.
The same might be said of the judicial system- the courts, prosecutors, juries, judges and the legal profession- it has always been a polite version of the Lynch Mob. And that is the way it remains. The cases involving Trump are no more justifiable because he is a serial con-man and thief. I’m not sure that he ever pretended otherwise. I’m not sure whether it is not the fiduciary duty of every American businessman, like the CIA, to lie, cheat and steal? Would it be fair to their families and investors if they did not?
I doubt that Joe or Hunter thinks otherwise? Does Christopher Heinz or John Kerry? Do the heads of the Clinton Foundation hew to higher standards? Clinton raked off millions from the Russian oligarchs that he helped to loot their countrymen. And women.
Millions purloined from the savings of elderly working folk from a dozen time zones. Robbing the Poor Box is nothing compared to what the US ruling class did. And does every day.
It was the least that they could do for Bill, without his help they might never have made it to the West End.
What has changed is that, for a variety of reasons, one of which is the complete loss of credibility by the media, the sheer ugliness of US political reality can no longer be hidden or masked.
Never mind the old Emperor: the Empire is naked.
No wonder Malenkov’s thoughts include images of old ladies knitting furiously, as they smack their lips and the tumbrils back up.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 22:15 utc | 112

@ Myke Simonian | Aug 15 2023 21:48 utc | 108
We’ve been taught all too well to think in binaries, and if it’s really Jihad vs. McWorld (to quote the title of a notable book) — that is, cultural conservatism vs. Baudrillardian utopia/dystopia, and if we feel compelled to choose a side, American conservatives will, when looking beyond their country (where they latch onto Trump despite his manifest flaws), idolize Putin/Russia. (He’s more visible than Orbán, and China is just too different.) Of course there are ironies born of either ignorance or politics-makes-strange-bedfellows-ism. Putin isn’t a raging homophobe; the new law on gender reassignment is not an absolute ban; every Russian is comfortable with the fact that their greatest poet was genetically and visibly less than lily-white. But the embrace of Bandera-style fascists by people who fancy themselves antifascists is at least as…remarkable, don’t you think?

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 22:21 utc | 113

Picking Kennedy would be a smart move. Trump will likely pick either a woman or a black to show he isn’t a bigot.

Posted by: My Comment | Aug 15 2023 22:34 utc | 114

@5
False in a legal document means false in the legal, not logical sense, aka “not only inaccurate, but willfully misleading.” Thus the onus will be on a prosecutor to show that Trump believed himself to have lost but lied about it. It strikes me as a difficult thing to do. Grand juries tend to be farces. Petit juries are often also, but often not.

Posted by: Johan Meyer (2) | Aug 15 2023 22:36 utc | 115

Posted by: My Comment | Aug 15 2023 22:34 utc | 115…
Crazy though (very, very remotely) possible as alleged “outsiders”
— how about Donald Trump *junior* teamed with Tulsi Gabbard?

Posted by: Cynic | Aug 15 2023 22:43 utc | 116

The Trump indictments are going to allow both sides to do discovery, something he never got in his election lawsuits. It’s going to be interesting to see what they discover.

Posted by: team10tim | Aug 15 2023 22:45 utc | 117

Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 22:15 utc | 113
The electoral system isn’t broken, its fixed. And it has been for most of the history of the Republic. All that has changed is that, in recent years, thanks to technological advances, it has got easier to fix than ever before.
=====================================================
Classic elegant bevin turn of phrase!!
Yes, nothing new; but yes, it’s more obviously bent. Yes, all Trump’s opponents are crooks, and yes he might be too – though unlike them NOT as a crooked public official. Furthermore, the way they went after him with whopping ‘Russia Russia’ lies blared out 24/7 for more than a year resulting in two phony impeachments is truly unprecedented, no? And now criminalizing doubting a highly questionable election which he miraculously lost after getting over ten million more votes than the first time around which usually would have given him a resounding landslide? RICO statutes in Folton County where video capture shows two women were up all night feeding tens or hundreds of thousands of unverified ballots into unauditable black box voting machines in a State he lost by less than twenty thousand votes? And in the DC case accused of ‘knowing that he lost the election’ because AG Barr told him so – the same AG Barr who refused to investigate the certain 200,000+ illegal ballots transferred from NY State to PA – after which anything Trump said in disagreement with this slimy oath-breaking traitor is now proof of sedition netting him a lifetime jail sentence?
Surely this is a tad further far out than anything previous, no?
Well, there was that FBI-orchestrated break-in at Watergate come to think of it…. and the assassinations of JFK and RFK and MLK…. and 9/11…. Hmmm… maybe you are right!

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 15 2023 22:50 utc | 118

I agree with you about Hillary Ahenobarbus, but fuck Trump as well, he is the Horse that shit on America.
Posted by: Ed | Aug 15 2023 20:19 utc | 87
Goes without saying, my good man.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 22:53 utc | 119

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 15 2023 22:50 utc | 119
Yup, all that and much more. And these pieces of evidence begin with the “base” to the claim of election fraud, stopping the count for hours.
What I cannot stand is the ignorance of people who accept the lies just because they seemingly hate Trump.
If we all let this “stopping the vote count (base to the claim)” all future potential elections are shams of variables as yet unknown.

Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Aug 15 2023 23:03 utc | 120

What strikes me as truly absurd is the US far-right knocking itself out cheering for Russia.
What do you think you have in common with the RF?
The Russian Federation stands for a multipolar world built on a planet-wide alliance of non-white peoples. You talk constantly about ‘cancel culture’ and ‘substitution of whites’. You are anti-semitic and ‘white nationalist’. Many of you simply hate Black people. Yet, somehow, you support Russia’s agenda.
Yes, Russia has taken a stance against transgenderism. So what? Perhaps 1/2 of 1% of the West identifies as trans. THIS is your great point of agreement with Putin?
And let’s not forget that the Lugansk and Donetsk regions are ‘peoples republics’ and that in those republics, Communist Party flags and symbols are everywhere. The second-largest political party in the Duma, the Communist Party, has consistently supported United Russia and the DPR and LPR in their battle against Kiev. Funny, that a bunch of white nationalists, racists and far-righters should back the Communists. Full disclosure: I have been a card-carrying member of the Communist Party, USA, for thirty years, and a member of the Italian Communist Party before that.
I’ve heard, ad nauseam, that gays in the military ‘weaken’ the US armed forces. First, that would be the same US armed forces that currently supply all these ‘goodies’ to Ukraine, head NATO, train UKR troops, etc. Second, I am yet to be convinced that a gay man – or a woman – is inherently any less courageous or capable with an assault rifle than the he-manest he-man you lot can produce. Here, too, you can ask the Russians about their experiences with female combatants, going back to WWI and the Bolshevik revolution.
Posted by: Myke Simonian | Aug 15 2023 21:48 utc | 108
Whether you are “Far Right, Far Left, or Far Out” and you have to pick between 2 lousey choices, I pick the guy that knows better than to trust an American Politician.
Ergo. Putin gets my support. Zelenski can take his dirty money and follow Plan B, get out of Dodge in the dark of night.

Posted by: kupkee | Aug 15 2023 23:03 utc | 121

The sorry spectacle of Sarah Ashton-Criollo, a transgender “journalist”, who went from being a Las Vegas gambler to an undercover Democratic Party operative, to an “journalist” embedded with the Azov Battalion, gushing about how LGBT friendly they are, to calling for the capture and murder of independent journalists, to ambiguously admitting to having committed a war crime, to recently being appointed a spokesperson for the AFU , is a case in point of the weaponinizing of identity politics in the service of imperialism. The backlash alleged humanoids like her will provoke will be horrific.

Posted by: Kate the Skate | Aug 15 2023 23:18 utc | 122

But when a Marxist tells me that my rights or desire therefor are “bullshit”, he (it is usually he) shouldn’t be surprised if I don’t join his (minuscule splinter) party.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 21:18 utc | 100
One’s cultural rights or desires are not bullshit for a Marxist, but the assertion that said rights are to replace core issues and divert attention from such certainly is. That is the problem with the current identity politics. And the intensity of their promotion by the most criminal elements of the elite speaks volumes about the importance of such distractions. This would not be the case if there wasn’t any advantage to be gained by the establishment through the adoption of identity politics for its purposes.
Further, there is a very real issue when there is blatant obscurantism involved. The extreme aspects of LGBTQ++PS2WTF? propaganda addressed to minors, the reading of social history through the utterly fraudulent “Critical Race Theory” (where we are told that the term “Enlightment” has racial connotations, among other horsecrap), brazen revisionist nonsense like the “Cleopatra” documentary series with open rejection of scientific research prerequisites etc., all lead to the advancement of inverted totalitarianism.

Posted by: Constantine | Aug 15 2023 23:28 utc | 123

@Bevin 15
Interesting Weekly Worker article with much truth to it. I am not by any means a Trump supporter but I would disagree that Jan 6 was an “insurrection” or coup attempt. So many things don’t add up. It was known weeks in advance that Trump supporters would hold a rally, six requests for backup were turned down. Two days before, there was a combined Assange and Medicare for All rally on the DC Mall. They were originally separate events, both were sparsely attended and thus merged into one rally. Leftist and libertarian journalists who covered the event and who stuck around for the Trump event said that police presence at the first event was much bigger. Finally there were a number of known procateurs at Jan 6, amid the mostly unarmed crowd, most of whom spent several hours milling around the Capitol building. There was no sign that it was a planned military op.
My hunch this was an Operation Gladio style operation, designed to terrify the population and discredit populism. The Trump supporters fell right into this. And I’m not by any means a Trump supporter.

Posted by: Kate the Skate | Aug 15 2023 23:31 utc | 124

Posted by: Kate the Skate | Aug 15 2023 23:18 utc | 123
A splendid example of a piece of human garbage like Ashton-Cirillo, hiding behind identity politics and through them championing criminal policies and regimes.
The liberal human detritus would even worship Hitler if he had been draped in a Pride flag and pushing a properly served “Critical Race Theory”. As long, of course, as he was pushing for the interests of the Anglo-American empire and its elites.
On the other hand, if Martin Luther King himself had been resurrected and then openly opposed said globalist empire, they would find some way to vilify or silence him.

Posted by: Constantine | Aug 15 2023 23:37 utc | 125

No need to over-intellectualize this subject. I and approximately 40% of my fellows are clear that there was dramatic election fraud, specifically the reprogramming of the Dominion machines. This situation is quickly becoming not viable. I give American society a few months, no more.

Posted by: TJC | Aug 15 2023 23:40 utc | 126

I agree with you about Hillary Ahenobarbus, but fuck Trump as well, he is the Horse that shit on America.
Posted by: Ed | Aug 15 2023 20:19 utc | 87
Hillary is the nag that shit on Libya, the Sahel, loosed the Jihadists and an invasion of migrants on Europe and beyond.. Clearly she represents the essence of a ‘trusted ally’ and a grand representative of the Rules Based Order.
If memory serves her trusted source for intel was some character / journalist named Blumenthal.
Last utterance I heard from her on the subject was she was still defending her actions and comparing the destruction she is largely responsible for to Korea, saying it took time for South Korea to work through their problems related to Korean war and now everything is groovy over there.
No MSM ever called her out on that to my knowledge, which isn’t surprising. As some astute Jewish fellow once said, ‘Don’t shit where you eat’.

Posted by: bubbles | Aug 15 2023 23:43 utc | 127

and not only the voting in USA, I suspect. How did France end up with Macron? How did Bolsonaro get pipped, or Imrahn Khan? How can the UK elect the one idiot after the other?…
Posted by: g wiltek | Aug 15 2023 16:12 utc | 7
An answer to those questions is suggested in an article that somebody linked to last week: https://gaiusbaltar.substack.com/p/why-is-the-west-so-weak-and-russia
WHY IS THE WEST SO WEAK (AND RUSSIA SO STRONG)?
THE ROLE OF HUMAN CAPITAL AND WESTERN EDUCATION
GAIUS BALTAR
AUG 3, 2023
Any rational person upon hearing a western leader, diplomat or “expert” speak, asks himself this question: “Are they just lying or are they really this incompetent and delusional?” The answer is “both” but the incompetence factor is far greater than most people can imagine…
The western purging of competence
Modern western society is from a governance standpoint ideologically motivated and ideologically controlled. It is being pushed in a very clearly defined ideological direction, led by the European Union and the current US administration. This ideology is not the subject matter of this article, but it can be seen everywhere by any rational and independent-thinking person. For the uninformed-curious a good place to start is the website of the EU’s policy-making body; the World Economic Forum.
In order to achieve these ideological goals for the West, two things must happen: a) The right people must be put into power at all levels of society and b) any disruptive elements must be eliminated or suppressed. Since all ideological goals tend to be more or less in conflict with reality, there is no group more disruptive to them than the one who operates objectively and independently. People like that simply cannot be allowed into positions of power, and if they must be, they must be kept quiet and/or forced to toe the line.
The objective/rational/general competence group, whether it is 1.5% or 8% of the population, therefore becomes a problem rather than a resource. This is exactly the situation in the West today.
Many people have noticed that meritocracy has been systematically abandoned in the West and the relationship between competence and reward severed in giant swaths of the economy – and almost completely in government. What few people seem to realize is that this is a necessity for the West’s ideological goals to be reached. High-level competence cannot be promoted because it is a threat. It cannot therefore be rewarded.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 15 2023 23:49 utc | 128

Doctor Eleven; Aug 15 17:07 utc 23
As a fellow outlander I heartily concur with your observations about the American clown show. But surely your witty comment about Schadenfreude should be the other way round – If it were not for Schadenfreude I wouldn’t have any Freude at all. My German is not perfect, but that seems to make more sense.

Posted by: Bernard Davis | Aug 15 2023 23:51 utc | 129

What the Dems did post 2016 (and 2000) elections objections were open, on the record, factual, in good faith, and in accordance with law.
What Trump’s people did was completely different. It was secret, conspiratorial, false, based on lies and false assertion, in bad faith, and illegal.
Have I made the distinctions clear enough for you?
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 19:54 utc | 77
##########
The amount of cognitive dissonance and dishonesty required to be this partisan must come naturally because I cannot imagine anyone sane thinking this way without a lot of effort.
A friend often says, that being of your political perspective requires the deliberate “not knowing” about things. Because if you acknowledged what is in the public sphere and on the record, these delusional narratives would disappear instantly. But if you can suppress access and acknowledgment of facts of record, then it is easy to maintain these truly bizarre narratives.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 23:53 utc | 130

The Republic of Korea enjoys a better (okay, less bad) representative democracy than the USA—but that in spite of rather than because of the tender ministrations of the USA. The USA supported some nasty dictators in that country, and the people rid themselves of dictatorship at the cost of a considerable amount of bloodshed.
Of course I wouldn’t expect an American “journalist” to know this.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 23:54 utc | 131

The logical way out of this American insanity would be for the greater public to turn as one and point the finger of blame where it belongs, at the elite including top polaticians on both sides.
Puting aside secoundry differences of opinion. Nows the time to prioritise, if america is to survive and become a normal functioning country.
The rest of the world would be glad of it.
And its probably now or never.
But already we can see the devide and rule battle lines being drawn up, the muddy trenches being dug for the american meat grinder.
Human nature will we never learn.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 15 2023 23:58 utc | 132

Posted by: Myke Simonian | Aug 15 2023 21:48 utc | 108
##########
You must be another guy who chooses not to know things in order to maintain the narrative you’ve adopted.
Coloring all Republicans as white-nationalist, frankly, makes you sound really silly. It’s as silly as claiming that all Democrats are groomers just because they support degeneracy and child exploitation.
If you were genuinely anti-racist you wouldn’t be partisan because everyone with a brain knows that both sides screw over everyone, regardless of race or religion.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2023 0:02 utc | 133

Not pleased with stance on Israel thus far but everything else looks far better than anything the others offer.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/08/03/rfk-jr-israel-palestine-dialogue/
Posted by: Thurl | Aug 15 2023 20:00 utc | 81
“US Jews contribute half of all donations to the Democratic Party.”
“Jewish donors give 25% of the Republican National Convention’s cash.”
https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-of-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774
Who’s your Daddy?

Posted by: bubbles | Aug 16 2023 0:02 utc | 134

To answer the question you posed: “ Should Trump then consider to run for president with RFK Jr. as his future vice-president…..etc….” – is: God help us! It really seems to capture an impotent structure of the USA political system. Or, to put it differently, no hope!

Posted by: Lubica | Aug 16 2023 0:11 utc | 135

Hillary is the nag that shit on Libya, the Sahel, loosed the Jihadists and an invasion of migrants on Europe and beyond.. Clearly she represents the essence of a ‘trusted ally’ and a grand representative of the Rules Based Order.
Posted by: bubbles | Aug 15 2023 23:43 utc | 126
#####
But she’s a Democrat, so while it is easy to take pot-shots at the insecure and failed President Trump, none of these BOLD Democrat supporters in the bar will touch her with a 10-foot pole. Likewise Obama’s Libyan and Syrian adventures.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2023 0:12 utc | 136

Kate the Skate@124
I agree entirely about the “Insurrection” nonsense. I can understand why the Democrats lie about it, buy I’m at a loss to understand why,eg, the WSWS and Lavelle go along with such rubbish. You’d think that communists would know a thing or two about insurrections, coups, revolutions and uprisings of every sort. And I’m sure that they do know better.
Perhaps they fear being smeared as Trump supporters. Oh dear…
“..How did Bolsonaro get pipped, or Imrahn Khan? How can the UK elect the one idiot after the other?…” g wiltek@7
Is there still any doubt about what happened to Imran Khan? He was the subject of a coup straight out of the US Embassy. Such coups have led to more governments being replaced than all the elections Pakistan has ever seen.
Bolsonaro was another matter entirely: his government was a complete disaster. It is a tribute to the strength of Brazilian crypto-fascism that any votes at all were recorded for him- the wealthy are just mean and nasty.
It is muddled thinking to equate the fate of Bolsonaro with that of Khan. The cure is to sask yourself “What would Wasshington want?” And in Brazil, make no mistake about it Bolsonaro was the candidste Washington- both parties and the Deep State- wanted.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 16 2023 0:12 utc | 137

“..Lastly, considering heterosexuality the norm doesn’t come from the bible. That’s just nature, like the sun rising in the morning. Any fool can see that… Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 19:56 utc | 78
Are you sure about that? Bi-sexuality would appear to be closer to the norm.
The problem is that hetrosexuality in nature is procreative. And the desire to reproduce is not as constant as the desires to achieve sexual gratification and enjoy companionship.
I suspect that, historically, homosexual relations have been normal in most societies. Why they are not in all is a matter far too complex to be addressed here, or without years of comprehensive research. But I suspect that the bible and its equivalents did play a part. As did class rule and the compulsion to enforce ideologies on the masses.
As for “The sun rising in the morning” most people probably experience almost as much sexual stimulation at their own hands throughout their lives as they do with partners of the opposite sex.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 16 2023 0:29 utc | 138

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 15 2023 23:49 utc | 127
Re evil or stupid?
I suspect a lot of extremely smart, well-connected cabalistas have filled the management-level of the leadership class with a whole load of incompetents. So it’s not either-or but both-and.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 0:42 utc | 139

As for “The sun rising in the morning” most people probably experience almost as much sexual stimulation at their own hands throughout their lives as they do with partners of the opposite sex.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 16 2023 0:29 utc | 136

Almost as much? In most cases I’d bet it’s “a lot more.” So much “it’s up to my eyeballs” in the teen and tween years. and after that . . . well, as Ann Landers (or was it her sister Dear Abby?) once said: “In your first year of marriage, put a penny in a jar for each time you have sex. After the first year, for each time you have sex, take a penny out. You will die with pennies in that jar.”
But the juices keep flowing, and I’m reminded of the beginning of the film *American Beauty* . . . you know, the scene where Kevin Spacey is, shall we say, relieving himself in the bathroom because his wife won’t, shall we say, cooperate . . .

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 0:50 utc | 140

Election fraud, vote fraud… Leaving EVERYTHING else aside, how does one spell “laptop”?

Posted by: oracle | Aug 16 2023 0:51 utc | 141

Trump and RFK Jr on the same ticket? They don’t have much in common besides being carbon-based life forms. There aren’t even many issues on which they have the same enemy!

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 0:53 utc | 142

@ malenkov | Aug 16 2023 0:53 utc | 140
both swear fealty to israel… they have that in common..

Posted by: james | Aug 16 2023 1:00 utc | 143

“The media will shine the light on both cases.”

No it will not. Hunter Bidet’s trial, if it ever happens, will be totally memory holed and ignored.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 16 2023 1:00 utc | 144

both swear fealty to israel… they have that in common..
Posted by: james | Aug 16 2023 1:00 utc | 141

Touché! I should’ve written American carbon-based life forms. 😉

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 1:08 utc | 145

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 0:53 utc | 140
Trump and RFK Jr on the same ticket? They don’t have much in common besides being carbon-based life forms. There aren’t even many issues on which they have the same enemy!
==============================================
Stop Ukraine war.
Stop corporate capture: ‘fascist union of state and corporate power’ inc. Big Pharma, Big Ag, MIC, dismantling CIA and FBI, reform Fed > public credit vs private cartel.
Close down most foreign military bases. End NATO.
Seal the southern border; only legal immigration.
Boost domestic manufacturing, rebuild well-paid working class employment.
Massive infrastructure renewal without globalist Green Initiative.
That’s a start.
Would be more than any other Presidency since…..a very long time.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 1:14 utc | 146

If the dnc got smart and sent an emissary to rfkj offering him the vice president nomination, he would accept in a heartbeat and then Biden would be an even money chance to win. Meanwhile the realist who knew those would be rfkj’s positions anyhow should he have jagged a win will get to chuckle ruefully knowing rfkj is a careerist pol just like the rest of them.
I for one cannot support this increased coverage of amerika’s quadrennial prez beauty contest where anything but actual policy matters.
People will vote for trump despite the fact he was absolutely useless last time just as they would vote for a seemingly ‘reform’ candidate in the dims even though like trump he would be 100% ineffective.
Being prez may be powerful but only if congress agrees to what they want to do, not to mention all the political appointments in DC also agree (remember that although the prez may nominate them they only get the gig via senate approval). Neither trump nor rfkj could get anything done without support from those other two factions, rfkj recognises that reality which largely explains why he kowtowed to the zionists who always demand obeisance up front while the other self interested groups prefer to stay in the background whenever possible.
Why cover this ‘race’ at all? Its outcome will affect zero, nothing, nada.
Those who think trump could and would end amerika’s involvement in the attack on Russia are kidding themselves. If trump tried to do any such thing all we (the world) would get is a particularly pointless hollywood soap opera plot as ways were found to stymy him whilst also completely getting rid of him. If you cannot see that, then you haven’t observed the amerikan or any other empire in action.
Perhaps providing a platform for the outsiders such as Cornel West would be good because even though his chances of winning are infinitely small, a good showing by him would certainly have an effect on major parties who would see that they were vulnerable and need to do something about it – either steal policy or fight, who knows which they would pick, most likely a bit of both, which would at least force the pricks to consider these vital to amerikans, but ignored by pols, topics.
That is the absolute best any amerikan election could ever bring, cos even here you don’t have to push an amerikan very hard to see that virtually all of them still retain a bias, the result of a lifetime’s indoctrination, in favour of one of the two corrupt entities which make up the amerikan empire party.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 16 2023 1:15 utc | 147

@ Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 1:14 utc | 144
I have now had my tired chuckle for the evening. 🙂

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 1:20 utc | 148

i agree with you debs… i said in my first post – it is all being run by the intel agencies… maybe i can say more.. they are looking after the interests of wall st, the military and energy complex…. they are all at the feeding table and the least thing they are interested in is what an ordinary american wants.. i find the whole endless talk about this nauseating so i generally stay away from engaging in any of it..

Posted by: james | Aug 16 2023 1:24 utc | 149

Some of what I said on my Substack.
Biden “won” in 2020 by winning massive majorities in the major urban electorates of five swing states. Historically and statistically, these victories made no sense.
So, how can Trump win if Democrats in these states repeat their 2020 and 2022 game plans? Sadly, he probably can’t, unless he gets a Reagan sized landslide and sweeps 49 states. That is unlikely when the media, social media, DOJ, FBI, the woke military, woke corporations, RINOs and never-Trumpers are doing everything in their power to stop him even running.
There is lot that can be done to reduce voter fraud. Perhaps the biggest is cleaning up the voter rolls. Democrat operatives know every non voter on those rolls and vote for them by mail or by dumping “their” ballots in drop boxes. No voter ID, no signature match, no protection.
Democrat lawyers, such as Mark Elias, use lawfare to change election rules in the Democrats favor, despite the constitution, which gives state legislatures complete authority over elections and election law.
We know a lot about how the Democrats cheat, and so should the GOP. But what is the GOP doing about it? Virtually nothing. What is Ronna McDaniel doing about it? Crickets.
But let’s look at the margin of fraud. If a district records more votes than there are registered voters, then even a court of law will recognize that fraud occurred. Except they won’t even look.
In 2020, there were 214 million registered voters in the US. Around 66% of them voted in 2020, which is about 140 million. Trump got 74 million votes, leaving 66 million for Biden. But Biden got 81 million votes. Where did those 15 million extra votes for Biden come from? Here’s one way. 280,000 completed ballots were illegally shipped from New York to Pennsylvania. None of those ballots were legal but they got injected into the vote count. Here’s another possibility. Some states mailed out ballots to every voter on the rolls, many of whom are dead, moved or fake. The undeliverable ballots got returned to the Post Office. Union operatives in the Post Office handed these ballots to Democrat operatives who were happy to fill in Biden as their vote while ignoring the down ticket candidates.
Today, GOP voters are saying my vote only tells the Democrats how many votes they need to steal. We saw that on election night in 2020 when Trump was leading, but then counting stopped for a couple of hours, which is a sure sign that an election is rigged. And, lo and behold, by the early morning, Biden had the stolen ballots he needed to win. That’s what we are up against and we need state legislators to retake their constitutional role and run free and fair elections with one day of voting, paper ballots, voter ID and honest officials.

Posted by: Pat Dooley | Aug 16 2023 1:31 utc | 150

Republicans and independents who voted for Trump in ’16 turned against him in ’20. That was where he lost the election. He actually did slightly better in places that are being charged with voter fraud.
Posted by: David | Aug 15 2023 16:52 utc | 20

That is wrong imo David. Some may have changed their Votes but overwhelmingly his support held and then increased dramatically.
Trump
2020 Votes 74,223,975
2016 Votes 62,984,828
An unprecedented result for a second term incumbent a lift of 12 million votes.
Mr Popular Obama dropped 4 million votes in his second term
Uninspiring Biden pulled 16 million votes more than HRC in 2016 and 15 million than Obama in 2012.
There was a record increase in Voter Registrations in 2020 – There was a massive new record of 65 million Postal Votes doubling in 2020 = 42% of all Votes cast (up from 33 million.)
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/11/10/most-mail-and-provisional-ballots-got-counted-in-past-u-s-elections-but-many-did-not/
Mail-In Votes are the most insecure and flawed voting system in the US – as Trump warned
“The National Vote at Home Institute, which advocates postal ballots and is led by former Denver elections director Amber McReynolds, analyzed all states in 2020[16] and found that 32 states “are missing major pieces of policy or best practices that ensure a secure mail ballot process such as a sufficient data integrity process, signature verification processes and/or a signature deficiency cure process.””
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting_in_the_2020_United_States_elections
Democrats including Rep. ADAM SCHIFF and Sen Kamala HARRIS in 2018 — yes 2018 — repeatedly say Voting Machines are insecure and vulnerable to hacking – and that in some cases vote tallies have been changed with votes shifting from one candidate to another ….. and Democrats tried to stop the Jan 6 2017 Certification process in Congress. HRC continued to say the election was stolen and Trump was illegitimate president due to his collusion with the Russians.
See Dems denying election results – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5iP9kzcjJ4
plus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjnX4IUt_eo
IMO the entire system is dysfunctional and untenable – from electorate boundaries, restrictions on who is on the ballots, restrictions on Alt Parties, the whole primary system is corrupt, voter registration unfair not consistent nationally, partisan control of the election processes and checks and balances, first past the post vs ranked voting, and no second round system for President and Governors – but most Americans do not seem to care enough to learn from other functioning best practice systems let alone do anything about it.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 16 2023 1:33 utc | 151

As for “The sun rising in the morning” most people probably experience almost as much sexual stimulation at their own hands throughout their lives as they do with partners of the opposite sex.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 16 2023 0:29 utc | 136
Whatever you guys say. Being queer is normal. Absolutely doesn’t matter.
The genitals are formed one for the other and the act produces offspring, so seems pretty normal, but again, who cares?

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 16 2023 1:36 utc | 152

As for “The sun rising in the morning” most people probably experience almost as much sexual stimulation at their own hands throughout their lives as they do with partners of the opposite sex.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 16 2023 0:29 utc | 136
————————————————–
That is called sex with someone you love.

Posted by: Ed | Aug 16 2023 1:42 utc | 153

If rfkjr were just a careerist pol, would he taken the stand that he has against certain vaccines for years? Would he have taken many months of research to write his book on Fauci?
I just watched his recent interview by Tucker Carlson. There’s much to learn there.
I’ve ordered his forthcoming book on Wuhan and covid. Its release keeps getting postponed. Now for Oct. 10. I assume the postponement results from further research.

Posted by: Lysias | Aug 16 2023 1:44 utc | 154

Crooked voting can be fixed by returning to the old mechanical pull the lever they are tamper proof and when election night is over the counter is read by 3 affirming parties and written down in each precinct then tallied state wide. Simple.

Posted by: Lou Cypher | Aug 16 2023 1:44 utc | 155

Forgot to add each voter dips his thumb into the purple ink which prevents voting more than once it was used in Iraq stays on finger for days then gradually comes off.

Posted by: Lou Cypher | Aug 16 2023 1:48 utc | 156

Democracy Now in an interview with Georgia court reporter Michael Isikoff, who is writing a book about the Georgia part of this whole story.
I have no idea how such an interview would look like if Biden were the accused.
But more info better then less I always say:
“Georgia Grand Jury Charges Trump & 18 Co-Conspirators with Racketeering for 2020 Election Interference”
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/8/15/trump_georgia_indictment_michael_isikoff
video & transcript
excerpts:
“Fani Willis calls what happened at Coffee County a case of computer theft. And this was an operation that actually took place after January 6th. And still determined to try to find some way, somehow, Trump’s team believed that if they could get access inside the election — to the software inside Dominion election machines (…) The problem is that that software and all the election data was protected. In fact, there were instructions to all election officials in Georgia: They may not release, publicly disclose this data. It was sensitive election technology, proprietary, could not be publicly released.
What they did is they found a few Trump-friendly officials (…) who, quote, “invited them in,” which they had no authority to do, and they spent a full day in Coffee County copying, imaging that data that they had no right to. As I said, computer theft, computer trespass, and it’s a key part of this indictment. And in the indictment, if you read it, they can link this up the chain, including to people like David Shafer, the chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, who was in touch with Scott Hall on the eve and during the day that they were breaking into this election office. (…)
And also one other factor to watch here is negotiation of a bond, because under Georgia law, there is not a lot of — if a defendant is deemed to be at risk not just of flight, but of intimidating witnesses, they’re not eligible for a bond. So, we’ll see. We don’t know who the judge is going to be yet. But that judge is going to have a very interesting process to deal with Donald Trump. And what is the bond set at? Fani Willis has set out bonds in the past on RICO cases for hundreds of thousands of dollars. This one is a much bigger case in a lot of ways. So, I think there’s going to be quite a bit of back-and-forth about the bond that Donald Trump would have to post in order to secure his freedom.”

Posted by: AG | Aug 16 2023 1:55 utc | 157

Lou Cypher: pull-the-lever machines aren’t entirely foolproof (hanging chads!) but infinitely better than the current “trust the computer” malaise. In any case it’s essential that ballots be collected and counted, and the results transmitted, in public by multi- or nonpartisan teams.
Lysias: Yes, whatever one thinks of RFK Jr’s position on vaccines, he’s demonstrated a lot of courage in the matter, as the usual reaction from Responsible People has been derision or opprobrium. Still, I’m not convinced by his johnny-come-lately half-conversion re Ukraine, and his position on Palestine is, well, reprehensible.
Ed: Wrong, wrong, wrong, you pervert! Your Little Mansky wasn’t formed for the hand, and the result of such nastiness doesn’t produce offspring. Oh wait…you’re straight? Never mind, whack away!

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 1:59 utc | 158

Posted by: Pat Dooley | Aug 16 2023 1:31 utc | 148
There is lot that can be done to reduce voter fraud….
We know a lot about how the Democrats cheat, and so should the GOP. But what is the GOP doing about it? Virtually nothing. What is Ronna McDaniel doing about it? Crickets.
========================================
If one still believes that a representative republic can exist in an honest, effective way (am yet to be persuaded), then voting matters. Vivek laid out a plan: paper ballots (which CAN be done in fool proof fashion); national voter ID for citizens only; greatly restrict mail-in for military, critically ill etc. Simple. Doable.
The question is not what to do but how. I don’t have a clue. And if something that simple, that fundamental, cannot happen, it’s because the entire republic is a con. (What other reason can there be?)
Perhaps how to get it done is to make it the only political issue for all Americans. No election in 2024 until it can be bullet-proof verifiable.
Slogan: ‘FIX VOTING FIRST!”
(And some wise guy will say: ‘THE ELECTIONS ARE FIXED!”
Again: how? It wouldn’t take an ideological or religious movement so it might get broad national support. Honest, clean, verifiable elections in every State before any more campaigning for the 2024 election. Hmmm…
Idea: Every Presidential candidate should get behind it. That’s the How.
Again, that honest, verifiable elections seem like a pipe dream is clear and present evidence that the republic is a post-constitutional con.
Naturally people hate this topic. But in the English-speaking world America is important. Surely it needs an honest, fully verifiable electoral process? It would help make the entire polity be more simple and honest. It would help the whole world. A consummation devoutly to be wished.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 2:03 utc | 159

comrade simba @ 38
Good point. The Democrats are a tight bunch and will never let RFK JR walk out of a convention with the nomination.
The Democrats, the media, and the state spent 4 years telling the public that “Putin stole the election for Trump.” The establishment sang the song endlessly. In my many years I have never seen a candidate fill spaces like Trump nor have I ever witnessed such a degradation of the election process going into that election cycle.
There is no such thing as a free and fair election. Vote tallies are easily manipulated…
EXPOSED: GBI Strategies LLC – Involved In Election Crimes
It is about who controls the levers of power. Trump is just in the way. Never in the 20th century was a president treated like Trump. Love him or hate him it is what it is…

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 16 2023 2:06 utc | 160

@ Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 2:03 utc | 157
I’d add “make election day a holiday” and “ensure adequate and accessible polling facilities” to the list, although I know both of these provoke outrage in some quarters. So, for that matter, does a national voter ID (which unfortunately would be useless in local elections anyway), but good on you for mentioning it.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 2:10 utc | 161

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 2:10 utc | 159
@ Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 2:03 utc | 157
=============================================
That was the third thing Vivek suggested. I forgot to mention it. He also has good ideas, including statutory law justification, for how to dismantle FBI and CIA and distribute the good employees, lay off the bad ones.
There ARE solutions.
But..

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 2:13 utc | 162

Lets just assume Mr. T did want to keep the presidency despite having lost an election – his behaviour would make no sense otherwise, or did he just do everything for the fun of it? – then that would be drastic in comparison to Watergate, which has always been a meaningless incident.
I think on Zero Newsletter they mention this odd significance of Watergate for the US psyche, obsessing over nothing.
On the other hand this too, will mean nothing to the average US citizen.
Their lives will be shitty as always and community solidarity will be paramount.
Regardless of what clown will end up in the Oval Nothingness.
When Sanders was fucked over in the primaries 2016. That might have been a true moment where some parts of the system could have been shaken up.
But such an oddity won´t happen for another 25 years.

Posted by: AG | Aug 16 2023 2:15 utc | 163

@Lavrov’s Dog 149
thx & agree
p.s. the Bush election was never cleared, right?
As far as I remember there was no complete 100% recount of votes when NYT and other outlets were involved.
Interesting that nobody cares about this AT ALL. I mean I am not THAT old but I remember it very vividly.
As Vidal said:
United States of Amnesia.

Posted by: AG | Aug 16 2023 2:22 utc | 164

The reason that nearly half the electorate doesn’t vote in the presidential is because they realize that it’s a charade, a waste of time. Candidates for any office get elected if they get the most votes, and then if elected the elected ones promote actions based on who offers the most money. Currently we see Joe Biden promoting US world interests by executive orders while the US citizenry sinks into lousy jobs, crime, suicides, drug use and homelessness. There’s no profit in serving citizens, but the Pentagon — yes.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 16 2023 2:32 utc | 165

Posted by: Lysias | Aug 16 2023 1:44 utc | 152
If rfkjr were just a careerist pol, would he taken the stand that he has against certain vaccines for years? …
==================================================
RFK JR is by far the most substantive candidate in generations on the Dem side. But does he have the political support and chops to do what needs to be done? Does anybody? Or even: CAN anybody? I don’t believe so, not without a huge groundswell movement transcending both Parties.
That said: witness the Oliver Anthony phenomenon last week. The groundswell potential is clearly there.
On the other side, Trump baffles and flummoxes but he is a veritable force and arguably moved the trajectory of his nation more than any President since….. a very long time. He made the Deep State show its fangs. And now it faces a choice: to reform or perish as a republic. I wonder what would have happened if he had been allowed a six month honeymoon like used to be the custom without the 24/7 lies and demonization…
We’ll never know.
America is a sad, sorry situation….
But if they both could come together to Restore the Republic and galvanize that groundswell and insist on verifiable elections, then this broken republic might be rescuable – better than trying to fashion a Republic 2.0.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 2:32 utc | 166

In 2020, there were 214 million registered voters in the US. Around 66% of them voted in 2020, which is about 140 million.
Posted by: Pat Dooley | Aug 16 2023 1:31 utc | 148

Sorry, that is not correct either. I think you have confused registered with those eligible to vote, but the 140 million voted figure is just wrong.
Votes were nearly 158.4 million ballots.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/01/28/turnout-soared-in-2020-as-nearly-two-thirds-of-eligible-u-s-voters-cast-ballots-for-president/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
Voters registered was near 168 million
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273743/number-of-registered-voters-in-the-united-states/
The increase in registered voters was massive being +11 million from 2016
There was much questionable in the major changes in postal mail-in / absentee voting. See “Absentee/mail-in ballot rejection rates, 2022” here
https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2022:_Analysis_of_rejected_ballots_in_the_2022_general_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting_in_the_2020_United_States_elections
If one in four rejections found are based on “signature issues”, and another significant share being already voted or ineligible to vote, does this not point to attempted fraud in most/many cases? Hundreds of thousands of votes were rejected – but did they check every ballot and capture all potential ‘errors’ ?
IMO the onus should not be upon the losing candidate to raise challenges or court cases – there should be automatic and thorough auditing of votes nationally by an independent federal agency before State votes are certified in the first place. If that takes more than the 6th Jan to complete then so be it …. the system as it is wide open to fraud not being uncovered fast enough and the system is run by Partisan operators all over the country.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 16 2023 2:49 utc | 167

Trump and RFK on same ticket? Absolutely ridiculous. Would not vote for Trump on any ticket, nor Biden, nor the vast majority of potential candidates.
Paper ballots would solve many election concerns. Been discussed for decades and still no action. Just shows how interested the political parties are in democracy, not!

Posted by: Thurl | Aug 16 2023 2:49 utc | 168

PS and there should be automatic and thorough independent auditing of Voter Registrations as well.
To make that feasible and effective all Voter Rolls should be closed 4 weeks before (any in person early voting) in the election is held.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 16 2023 2:53 utc | 169

America is a sad, sorry situation….
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 2:32 utc | 164

Yes indeed it is.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Aug 16 2023 2:56 utc | 170

@136 bevin
Just because a dog salivates over salmon doesn’t mean he should eat it, nor chocolate.
Similarly, man is not as sexed up as you would make others believe. We are so juiced on the porno-drippings because of media, advertising, and the general consumer culture of self-satisfaction.
Ask people back in the day who had to work for a living if they were chomping at the bit for a go in the hay after work. They were not. But Sundays after Church? Yes please!
I think a correlation can be drawn with the end days of the Roman empire asit approached its terminus and its dick-obsession.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 16 2023 3:24 utc | 171

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 15 2023 23:49 utc | 127
Modern western society is from a governance standpoint ideologically motivated and ideologically controlled…
Since all ideological goals tend to be more or less in conflict with reality, there is no group more disruptive to them than the one who operates objectively and independently. People like that simply cannot be allowed into positions of power, and if they must be, they must be kept quiet and/or forced to toe the line.

Posted by: john brewster | Aug 16 2023 4:32 utc | 172

“ The false statements (lies) are essential and in service of executing a criminal conspiracy. That conspiracy amounted to an attempted coup, or the reversal of actual election results.
This has nothing to do with free speech.
You grossly mislead readers by falsely framing and failing to provide the context of this cherry picked sham argument and the legal relevance of the criminal charge.
Shame on you.”
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 16:13 utc | 8
Except – if you have time to dig into it – there is a mountain of evidence that there really was rigging. I’ll mention just one: In Georgia alone, there were over 300 cases of precincts, in groups, delivering the EXACT same fraction of the total number of votes for Trump, for several hours, before simultaneously returning to normal random numbers, and simultaneously other groups of precincts taking over the anomalous reporting. Things like that can be found by analyzing the election night data reported by New York Times.
Here is another take on it that you don’t have time to bother to look into https://youtu.be/BlKjF8kU7mY

Posted by: Limert | Aug 16 2023 4:40 utc | 173

“Due to the widespread extreme allegiance to Zionism, I have no interest in any candidate.”
Posted by: Colin | Aug 15 2023 17:06 utc | 22
The real allegiance is to anglosaxon imperial dominance of banking. Zionism and nazism were both created for that purpose.
Thus Israel is another anglosaxon colonial project.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 16 2023 5:26 utc | 174

RFK on Tucker Carlson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN5A6lhjV0c
Speaks on Secret Service denial, Ukraine, US bio-weapon labs, and border security.
Contrast his mind with Trump or Biden and is no comparison.
Not pleased with stance on Israel thus far but everything else looks far better than anything the others offer.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/08/03/rfk-jr-israel-palestine-dialogue/
Posted by: Thurl | Aug 15 2023 20:00 utc | 81

I aggree with Thur1 on this, and thank him/her for the links.
I will add that given the state of the world at this time, I feel it necessary and prudent for candidates to concentrate on US national needs and leave the international scene to the course the RoW is currently pursuing. I note that there has been a moral issue statement concerning Israel by RFKjr, and that practically speaking, his candidacy, within the current structure, necessitates finesse on this issue.
Thanks also to Lysias at Aug 16 2023 1:44 utc /152, and thanks to b for the opportunity to address the subject. I do not see an alliance between Trump and RFKjr as helpful to the country — except in terms of creating through their speeches a necessarily public political dialogue on the state of the nation, between two charismatic candidates for office. We, the US public, haven’t had that experience in a very long time.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2023 5:59 utc | 175

b writes

Should Trump then consider to run for president with RFK Jr. as his future vice-president he could form a quasi bi-partisan populist ticket that might well attract a larger majority.

Sy Hersch said something akin to this two weeks ago.
That being said, RFK jr is a stooge for the Zionist enterprise that is modern Israel. How do people here reconcile that fact with everything else going on? In fact, b never really takes aim at the very real contradictions of that state endeavor (and its occupation of the Palestinian lands) and the invasion of Ukraine. Sure they are different on many levels, but how does b parse the two phenomenon against one another in a rhyme and.or reason kind of way?
Enquiring minds would like to know. A detailed analysis of the two situations would me most illuminating.
-ha ha ha ha

Posted by: CrazyTrain | Aug 16 2023 7:09 utc | 176

If RFK Jr and Trump join up there will never have been a more Zionist US presidential ticket in history. Their combined love for apartheid Israel would rip a hole in spacetime and we’d all be sucked in.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 15 2023 18:15 utc | 53
Seems like Mr Kennedy was both a white power cryptographer and an AIPAC tool in the same news cycle. Sounds like both bases are covered. good thing people are keeping sharp eyes on this guy, something might slip by.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Aug 16 2023 7:20 utc | 177

Posted by: Milites | Aug 15 2023 16:10 utc | 6
Exactly !
He’s just another “top down” candidate. Proved last time he is full of shit.
The believers say it will be different this time as he knows what he will be dealing with this time around. Really ?
Where are all these magical Smurfs going to appear from that he will need to assign jobs to. The swamp of course.
A bottom up candidate is what is needed a grass roots movement but the left and right hate each other so much it will never happen.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Aug 16 2023 7:55 utc | 178

A note for conspiracy theorists.
Given that the CIA is clearly involved in the campaign against Trump, why hasn’t he simply been assassinated? There’s been plenty of time and there are plenty of people who believe the anti-Trump propaganda about how he is a clear and present danger to the Republic, the human race, and the universe. Give one of them a gun and then send him out to get caught after the black-bag agents terminate Trump — surely that would be easy-peasy, or perhaps easy-Pencey.
Why go the slow legal route? It’s clearly energising the Republican base. (I think Ted Rall’s cartoons on the subject are the best commentary about the nightmare that this election is turning into. Perhaps the best: Trump on the stand, with the prosecutor accusing him of knowing that he lost the election, and Trump replying “You address me as Mr. President”.)

Posted by: MFB | Aug 16 2023 9:07 utc | 179

Trump will certainly make the “conditions dance again”. His sole existence is like a allergic reaction. Annoying, can be dealt with but potentially deadly.
He will intensify the contradictions of late capitalism as he him self is the contradiction it self! The billionaire saviour of the working class, the holy playboy, the sincere lier, the protestant Zionist, the establishment rebel, the unaware murderer, the no-friend of Epstein, the eating MC Donalds of golden plates and so on on…
Let him be the Samson to destroy the temple!
After what he did to General Qasem Soleimani he deserves nothing but contempt!

Posted by: El.Lissitzky | Aug 16 2023 9:34 utc | 180

Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 16:13 utc | 8
It’s very difficult to prove that somebody willfully told untruth if there is no hard proof. How do you go to someone’s head. It’s possible and likely that he believed in what he said. And no, I never voted for a Republican. Neither for a Democrat last few elections.

Posted by: RB | Aug 16 2023 9:49 utc | 181

People’s biases are showing.
This is the serious indictment. The others are penny-ante by comparison.
And there are multiple damning telephone-recordings involved, ignored in the “analysis” presented here.
Easy is the descent into propaganda.

Posted by: John Kennard | Aug 16 2023 10:16 utc | 182

@ MFB | Aug 16 2023 9:07 utc | 177
Why hasn’t Trump been assassinated yet? I can think of two plausible reasons, and there are no doubt others:
1. The optimal time hasn’t come yet. Late October 2024 would be maximally devastating to the Rethugs.
2. The Dim Party hierarchy, which loves to create realities (Karl Rove didn’t have a monopoly on that!) thinks it can successfully repeat its Trump-as-Bogeyman strategy of 2020.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 11:04 utc | 183

Trumpmania again! Lets get triggered!
Once on a visit at a friends place on the Faroe Islands, his mother and me had a short but very intense talk about the state of the world and Trump in particular. It was shortly before noon and the first warm up shots of Acavit-snaps made their round. My friends mother, a woman of Turkish-Faroes decent was incredible well informed and beautifully cynical. The kind of cynicism of a disillusioned moralists. People that have seen and know to much to be optimistic.
Anyway, she made this vivid remark: “even if i just read the weather report in the NY-Times or Washington Post, i still look outside the window to see if its true.”
And my response was: “Trump the compulsive liar is probably the most truthful POTUS ever.”
Its so facinating that the such a fraud / conman / thief like him can create a condition were all the other liars, fraudsters and thiefs get exposed. And only somebody like him can do that!
If one is not capeable of telling the truth anymore (NYT/WAPO) but is confronted with systematic and compulsive lies like in Trumps case, it forces them to lie even more obvious (Russia gate) and therefore loose the last bit of touch with reality.
That again creates a condition of clarity (about motives and dispositive) or in other word; truth!
Well…lets get triggered folks!

Posted by: El.Lissitzky | Aug 16 2023 11:19 utc | 184

I’ll briefly respond to those claiming that rfkj is not a career pol because if he was he wouldn’t have campaigned against big pharma for so long. Yeah well lets think, aoc campaigned for medicare for all for years but now she is elected she acts as though she never thought about it. The same can be said of literally every politician who says stuff to get a public profile, usually seeming outrageous stuff otherwise it can get no traction, what rfkj before elected and what he does if he was are two completely different things as would be revealed by the alacrity he would jump upon biden’s ticket if it were offered.
Rather than watching the carlson interview which I watched for as long as I could (most of it) until carlson’s softball, fawning questions became too much, instead watch his rank obvious lie ridden israel spiel on Jimmy Dore about 2 weeks ago. It would be ludicrous if he believed a quarter of what he said all straight from the fantasy land of rabid zionists, yet he said it with a straight face pretending he was telling facts, simply because he believed it was in his political interests to do so. It wasn’t and before Jimmy put Max Blumenthal on the next show to refute that nonsense rfkj’s handlers were calling Jimmy up begging him not to do what he did.
The man is just another power hungry sock puppet for anyone who helps him gain power, imagining anyone from the kennedy clan to be different is frankly ridiculous, something you can better understand by studying what his father & uncles did when they held power. He talks about ‘uncle Ted’ the most a man who led the union members of amerika into compromise after compromise resulting in their near irrelevance today.
anyway I’ve gone on too long; kennedyites just like trumpists or any other political cultist refuse to acknowledge the crookedness of their heroes even when it is right in front of them. Delude yourself just as every prez candidate has deluded so many amerikans every time. Apart from the blind cultists everyone else discovers the new boss is just like the old boss.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 16 2023 12:10 utc | 185

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 16 2023 12:10 utc | 183
I get the cynicism. About RFK JR I don’t think you can compare his legal work against big corporations, his river cleaning foundation with real world results and his recent books on covid and big pharma corruption with AOC who answered a classified ad and did a 5 minute video interview and landed the part: to be the next Dem candidate in that district.
Cynicism is more than warranted. But reality is frustratingly muddled.
Meanwhile in Brownsville TX US Federal Govt involved in huge child trafficking op.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FnvwOjlpFmU
These guys hype their titles and waffle. But this is a real story.
…………………
Re bottom up candidate: like it or not Trump, the working class billionaire, is it. Mainstream working people adopted him and now each blow he (seemingly) suffers adheres him to them more. Too many still get their news from networks and FB so believe the demonization. Would be great if there was someone better but again: reality is a patchwork muddle not a tidy script with obvious good and bad guys.
Trump is the one the nation has thrown up somehow. It’s not about him but the people who adopted him. Better supporters could make him a better candidate and leader in office but We The People are lazy and confused so…

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 12:43 utc | 186

@ Debsisdead | Aug 16 2023 12:10 utc | 183
You could well be right in the assumption that RFK Jr’s character is such that as president he would do a 180 on his position re Big Pharma. Since his chance of being elected is nil, however, we’ll never find out for sure.

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 16 2023 12:51 utc | 187

@Posted by: John Kennard | Aug 16 2023 10:16 utc | 180
During the military II trial, there was the Dallaire fax, multiple sworn witnesses et alia. Hoaxes the lot of them. The CIA ran the ad hoc tribunals. For the fax, see this.
Although US prosecutors are often accomplished liars and suborners to perjury, that does not guarantee that every case is a concoction of lies, but it does mean that suspicion is warranted. Recall that a satire (Jormungand Pulsar part I) of the sting/arrest of Viktor Bout preceeded said sting (serial publication of satire of upcoming sting published two years before said sting which is the subject of the satire—US prosecutorial crimes are that predictable).

Posted by: Johan Meyer (2) | Aug 16 2023 12:55 utc | 188

Possibility:
DJT will offer RFK JR a leading Tzar role in his administration as soon as the Dem superdelegates refuse him for Pelosi’s nephew Gruesome.
Kennedy will accept. A kind of left-right ticket will sweep the nation. RFK JR will win in 2028.
Both men are on board with multipolarity. The only remaining question is the degree to which that pure and noble sounding agenda is infiltrated with WEF globalistas funded by City of L and other banksters. (My guess is mucho, with CBDCs up the yinyang, wazoos and any other unmentionable part you are not allowed to think of in polite society where we will all nevertheless be soon biometrically surveilled!)
In regards to multipolarity, Trump is better than Kennedy who needs more education outside the court room.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 12:58 utc | 189

Posted by: Myke Simonian | Aug 15 2023 17:28 utc | 32
Why not every member of Congress/Senate? I think Santos is the least experienced of them all in defrauding others.

Posted by: Colin | Aug 16 2023 13:09 utc | 190

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Aug 16 2023 5:26 utc | 172
Undoubtedly, a substantial Zionist faction is present within the realm of Anglo-American financial capital, and there are also those who exhibit minimal inclination to resist its influence. This pattern extends to the current landscape of American tech monopoly capital fraternity, where a comparable Zionist faction is prevalent.

Posted by: Colin | Aug 16 2023 13:54 utc | 191

Responding to Bill #8, so, are you one of those 20 million (card-carrying leftists woketards) who voted for political cartel leader O Biden? -asking for the 81 million who actually voted for the other guy.

Posted by: ERing46Z | Aug 16 2023 13:57 utc | 192

Posted by: MFB | Aug 16 2023 9:07 utc | 177
The primary reason behind JFK’s assassination was his obstruction of Israel’s unlawful pursuit of nuclear weapons, rather than the opposition from the CIA. However, the CIA’s involvement aided in both executing and concealing the assassination on behalf of Israel.
Interestingly, RFK claimed that negotiating with Iran was genocide, whereas neglecting to give Israel a nuclear weapons pass was the genocide akin to giving the Nazis nuclear weapons.

Posted by: Colin | Aug 16 2023 14:01 utc | 193

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2023 0:12 utc | 134
It’s quite amusing to witness individuals swiftly switch between asserting that the flaws in the US electoral system led to Hillary’s loss, and then asserting that the same system is flawless and thus Trump’s victory couldn’t have been stolen.
Furthermore, it’s worth noting that those who previously insisted that Bush manipulated the election are now asserting that this much more evident instance of election manipulation is entirely unfounded.
Critics condemn Trump’s approach to the oil industry, yet they often portray Obama and Biden, who also supported the industry based on data, as proponents of environmentally-friendly policies.
Regarding the purported “immigrant invasion,” it’s important to note that the primary source isn’t the U.S. Middle East policy. Numerous immigrants originate from sub-Saharan Africa, implying that imperialistic exploitation is the core issue, and military aggression is just one facet of the imperialism.

Posted by: Colin | Aug 16 2023 14:21 utc | 194

Posted by: Lubica | Aug 16 2023 0:11 utc | 133
Indeed, and RFK, Jr. stuck his neck in a big noose during Tucker’s interview this week. How? Promoting 1. how Wuhan was a lab tech accidental leak (more death jabs funding for all from big pharma) and 2. how “Putin” did an illegal invasion of Ukraine (MIC, I’ll be your big check writing boy for the coming years of expanding EU wars). Tucker showed how “controlled opposition” he actually is by not challenging him on either of RFK Jr’s
positions. Having served in public affairs news media for decades, including the Pentagon, this duck knows what other ducks look like when they quack!

Posted by: ERing46Z | Aug 16 2023 14:25 utc | 195

Regarding the purported “immigrant invasion,” it’s important to note that the primary source isn’t the U.S. Middle East policy. Numerous immigrants originate from sub-Saharan Africa, implying that imperialistic exploitation is the core issue, and military aggression is just one facet of the imperialism.
Posted by: Colin | Aug 16 2023 14:21 utc | 192
…………,
I’d like to know who is writing the checks flying those immigrants in from all over the world and giving thousands of them $800 USD a month debit cards and coordinating with the Mexican cartels to bring them over the border, separating children and selling them to US buyers working with USG run facilities. Only about 10% are from Latin America of late, mucho Chinese. Mass riots in 2024?
US is organized crime state. Maybe why Kennedy and Trump fit: both their grandfathers were bootlegger or brothel owning types.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 16 2023 14:58 utc | 196

We have the guy dead to rights, his buddies have flipped, his recordings alone are damning. Find another dead horse to beat, he’ll either die before, or in, jail.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 16 2023 15:16 utc | 197

A grifter, “we’re only here for the oil” is a working class billionaire, working class? Really…..well there’s yer problem right there.
Cheers

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 16 2023 15:19 utc | 198

Caitlin Johnstone:
“It’s Never About The US President, It’s About The US Empire”
https://caitlinjohnstone.com.au/2023/08/10/its-never-about-the-us-president-its-about-the-us-empire/
“Really the only reason to talk about US presidents in terms of “Obama did this” and “Trump did that” is to highlight this point. To highlight the fact that Obama continued and expanded all the most malignant policies of his predecessor, and that Trump continued and expanded all the most malignant policies of his. To disrupt all the dopey partisan narratives about things getting better under Biden or worse under Trump or that Obama was a progressive or Trump was a peacemaker.
By pointing out the horrible things that happened under each administration, regardless of party affiliation or platform, the illusion that Americans are controlling the behavior of their government using their votes can be worn away. You can in this sense use the illusion to fight the illusion — use people’s intense interest in presidents and electoral politics to draw them into the insight that it’s all a performance designed to keep the eyes of the masses away from the inner workings of the machine.”

Posted by: AG | Aug 16 2023 15:26 utc | 199

Whatever you guys say. Being queer is normal. Absolutely doesn’t matter.
The genitals are formed one for the other and the act produces offspring, so seems pretty normal, but again, who cares?
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 16 2023 1:36 utc | 150
##############
Being queer does matter because queers, absent in modern technology, don’t reproduce. Reproduction is imperative for all living creatures on land and sea.
That’s without me mentioning that sodomy is literally playing with poop, which even small children know not to do before they receive any substantial social programming.
Who cares? Anyone that values a healthy society, healthy children, and hygiene.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2023 15:27 utc | 200