How Will Trump's Fourth Indictment - And RFK Jr. - Influence The Election Season?
Another month brings another indictment of Donald Trump:
ATLANTA — Former president Donald Trump and 18 others were criminally charged in Georgia in connection with efforts to overturn Joe Biden’s 2020 victory in the state, according to an indictment made public late Monday night.Trump was charged with 13 counts, including violating the state’s racketeering act, soliciting a public officer to violate their oath, conspiring to impersonate a public officer, conspiring to commit forgery in the first degree and conspiring to file false documents.
With so much alleged conspiring should we call all these indictments a conspiracy theory?
This indictment is again too wide and borders on, like the others against Trump, criminalizing the retelling of rumors and free speech.
Just consider this part:
COUNT 29 of 41And the Grand Jurors aforesaid, in the name and behalf of the citizens of Georgia, do charge and accuse DONALD JOHN TRUMP with the offense of FALSE STATEMENTS AND WRITINGS, O.C.G.A. § 16-10-20, for the said accused, in the County of Fulton and State of Georgia, on or about the 2nd day of January 2021, knowingly, willfully, and unlawfully made at least one of the following false statements and representations to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, Georgia Deputy Secretary of State Jordan Fuchs, and Georgia Secretary of State General Counsel Ryan Germany:
said statements being within the jurisdiction of the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, departments and agencies of state government, contrary to the laws of said State, the good order, peace and dignity thereof;
- That anywhere from 250,000 to 300,000 ballots were dropped mysteriously into the rolls in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
- That thousands of people attempted to vote in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia and were told they could not because a ballot had already been cast in their name;
- That 4,502 people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia who were not on the voter registration list;
- That 904 people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia who were registered at an address that was a post ofiice box;
- That Ruby Freeman was a professional vote scammer and a known political operative;
- That Ruby Freeman, her daughter, and others were responsible for fraudulently awarding at least 18,000 ballots to Joseph R. Biden at State Farm Arena in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
- That close to 5,000 dead people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
- That 139% of people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Detroit;
- That 200,000 more votes were recorded than the number of people who voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Pennsylvania;
- That thousands of dead people voted in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Michigan;
- That Ruby Freeman stuffed the ballot boxes;
- That hundreds of thousands of ballots had been "dumped" into Fulton County and another county adjacent to Fulton County in the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia;
- That he won the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia by 400,000 votes;
Even the Washington Post write-up finds that a bit too excessive:
The indictment takes an expansive view of the behaviors it alleges were acts “in furtherance of the conspiracy” -- including, as an example, at least a dozen instances of Trump’s tweets alleging fraud and other claims. Such details from the indictment quickly drew criticism as potential violations of the defendants’ free speech protections.
Trials over these indictments, if any, will likely start only next year and will take quite a long time. Any judgment in them will be appealed.
All this will mean little for voters who mostly have made up their minds:
Yet most Americans made up their minds about Mr. Trump long before prosecutors like Fani T. Willis or Jack Smith weighed in, polls have shown. He is, depending on the perspective, a serial lawbreaker finally being brought to justice or a victim of persecution by partisans intent on keeping him out of office. The Georgia indictment, powerful as it is in its language, has been priced into the market, as the Wall Street types would put it.“The accumulated indictments are kind of a white noise for voters,” said Sarah Longwell, a Republican political consultant who has organized opposition to Mr. Trump and conducts weekly focus groups with voters. “They can’t tell the difference between Georgia and Jack Smith because it all blurs together in one long news cycle of Trump’s-in-trouble.”
I believe, like Trump, that the indictment will help him. First in the primary and then in the general election:
Speaking to supporters in Alabama a couple of days after his last arraignment, [Trump] claimed he was looking forward to the next one. “We need one more indictment to close out this election,” he boasted.That is bravado — the sort of bring-it-on bluster that electrifies a Trump rally.
Contrast that with the case and against the Bidens which will be laid out by a special prosecutor to the same public. As I wrote when the last bits about the Bidens-Burisma saga came to light:
On the one side we have a case which shows the deep corruption of 'the big guy' and his family who are supported by the deep state they control.On the other side we have the underdog who thought he was doing the right thing but is now indicted by the deep state for, at that time, saying so.
The media will shine the light on both cases. Each time they will mention Trump it will, independent of what they write about him, be positive for him by making the case of the lone guy who gets unfairly prosecuted by the deep state.
Each time the Biden case will be mentioned it will remind the public of Biden's corrupt dealings.
Proceed through that for sixteen month and the outcome is assured.
Now add to that the possible quirks of the Democratic primary. RFK junior has entered that race:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has raised eyebrows as the first right-sympathetic populist to run as a Democrat since William Jennings Bryan. Launching with twenty paid staff and functioning now with seventy, Kennedy’s campaign has latched on to several issues important to mainstream Republicans—Covid tyranny, censorship, government surveillance—as well as to the dissident right: public health threats posed by chemicals in food and water, ending forever wars. The difference is the right frames these issues as matters of social cohesion and public order, while Kennedy uses the language of democracy and freedom.
In the currant fashion RJK Jr. is not really a Democrat:
When discussing the issues that animate him most—the environment, censorship, state and corporate collusion—he brightens. His hopeless intellectual humility and his hesitation to emphasize the most divisive ideological commitments of his own party while regularly taking up the language of his partisan opponents are setting up a general election that could divide populist voters almost entirely on the basis of aesthetics.
During the primaries the Democratic Party mafia will do their best to eliminate him even when he is unlikely to be a real danger to Joe Biden's candidacy.
Should Trump then consider to run for president with RFK Jr. as his future vice-president he could form a quasi bi-partisan populist ticket that might well attract a larger majority.
Posted by b on August 15, 2023 at 15:47 UTC | Permalink
next page »"With so much alleged conspiring should we call all these indictments a conspiracy theory?"
That's what I would call it but then I was brought up speaking English.
Posted by: Johnny Conspiranoid | Aug 15 2023 15:58 utc | 2
Thanks for covering this b.
My two farthings - At this point, a dead Trump can beat Biden in a landslide. Biden is a dead man walking if only they can get Kamala to accept Ambassadorship to the Moon.
I do support Kennedy at this point, in spite of his maddening fealty to Israel.
The problem is the system is truly rigged. Democracy is another word for nothing left to lose.
Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 15 2023 16:01 utc | 3
The voting in the USA was rigged. No doubt about it.'
And not only at the last election, it has most likely gone on for two or three elections before that.
There is only one cure. Paper votes, hand counting and representatives for all interested parties as observers.
And it would be nice if you had a working judicial system as well.
I cannot see how this is not going to end in bloodshed.
It is just a matter of time, before people revolt.
In a way I'm surprised it has not already happened.
Posted by: g wiltek | Aug 15 2023 16:07 utc | 4
accuse DONALD JOHN TRUMP with the offense of FALSE STATEMENTSOh, the dreaded WRONGTHINK.
At this point, what difference does it make?
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 15 2023 16:08 utc | 5
Trump’s no longer a candidate, he now represents a movement that transcends politics, like all perceived national freedom fighters. What I find amusing is that the ersatz liberals whose desks, fridges and walls were festooned with symbols of African resistance movements are closely following the playbook of the regimes they eventually deposed.
In the short term, Trump’s rating increase, especially amongst independents and minorities, and his supporters have to add, on their Twitter feeds, ever more horrible surfaces they’d crawl over to vote for him!
Just as with Ukraine, clowns who believe clownish things and who listen to clowns behave like…clowns.
Posted by: Milites | Aug 15 2023 16:10 utc | 6
and not only the voting in USA, I suspect. How did France end up with Macron? How did Bolsonaro get pipped, or Imrahn Khan? How can the UK elect the one idiot after the other? How did Van der Leyen (the whole family is a picture Nazi) get to power? Who voted for her. And the people from Hungary are not fit to be with "normal" people!
It is all a scam, and it is to be bought for the people prepared to pay.
We get the people in official posts other people decide we need!
It is time to resist, refuse and revolt!
You can trust no-one!
Posted by: g wiltek | Aug 15 2023 16:12 utc | 7
1) Either there is a conspiracy to torpedo Trump's chances and his image with the American public, or
2) Trump is either willingly or unwillingly being used as a pressure-relief valve to keep the polis from going off the rails into actual (not fake insurrectiony) violence against the estab.
I lean towards the latter.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 15 2023 16:12 utc | 8
The false statements (lies) are essential and in service of executing a criminal conspiracy. That conspiracy amounted to an attempted coup, or the reversal of actual election results.
This has nothing to do with free speech.
You grossly mislead readers by falsely framing and failing to provide the context of this cherry picked sham argument and the legal relevance of the criminal charge.
Shame on you.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 16:13 utc | 9
After 2020, I have very grave doubts as to whether or not any candidate that is not approved by the DC deep state establishment can get elected in the USA.
B sets out some worrying allegations, but there are many more. The most significant IMHO is that there is no paper trail in many key States, with voting machines being black boxes (you will recall the Fox cave in on the defamation action - who will be next?).
Election security in the USA is weak. Allegations of potential irregularity were ignored by the courts before and also after the vote. The MSM is 110% or more behind the narrative that anyone who questions these issues is some sort of "insurrectionist". The GOP is complict in this and is more interested in taking its share of the grift IMHO. At least a third of the US population is so wedded [tribally] to the DNC they cannot see the damage that is being done. And now we have the force of the law being applied against not just a few schleps in the January 6th set up, but Trump, an ex-President, for alleged breaches of the law simply by questioning the establishment narrative. Whilst Dem Pols who have clearly committed real crimes are are ignored. So call me cynic.
We might yet see another GOP President, but that person will be a controlled creature of the deep state. And if, against all the odds, a true US patriot gets elected, well my advice would be to avoid any motorcades in Dallas.
Posted by: marcjf | Aug 15 2023 16:16 utc | 10
Posted by: Milites | Aug 15 2023 16:10 utc | 6
Just as with Ukraine, clowns who believe clownish things and who listen to clowns behave like…clowns.
I can't think of anything more clownish than the belief that Trump is some kind of national freedom fighter. Just as clownish as the delusions posted by gottlieb | Aug 15 2023 16:01 utc | 3 and marcjf | Aug 15 2023 16:16 utc | 9. Unfounded allegations were ignored by the courts and the MSM is behind that narrative is because the mass election fraud conspiracies are about as real as creationism, holocaust revisionism and global warming denial.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Aug 15 2023 16:29 utc | 11
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 15 2023 16:08 utc | 5
###########
The notion of "free speech" has always been a farce. If the government doesn't punish you, the banks will.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:30 utc | 12
This is an interesting if lengthy take from Daniel Lazare. It was written before the Atlanta Grand Jutu reported but Dan had an idea of what was coming:
"Closer to the brink"
"Donald Trump faces numerous legal challenges. Despite that he runs neck-and-neck with Joe Biden in the polls and could well win the next presidential election. Daniel Lazare gives his take on the pending constitutional crisis
First US Democrats used the intelligence agencies to bring Donald Trump down. Now they are trying to use the criminal-justice system. But it is looking less and less likely that they will succeed.
"The reason, simply, is that one effort undercuts the other. Four years of a round-the-clock destabilisation campaign aimed at proving that Trump was in cahoots with Moscow undoubtedly served to weaken him and help Joe Biden wrack up an impressive seven-million-vote win in November 2020. But, by failing to come up with evidence to back up their lurid charges, Democrats ended up undermining their own credibility. As a consequence, fewer and fewer voters now believe Democratic prosecutors when they say they are charging Trump with everything from fraud to violations of the 1917 Espionage Act merely because they want to uphold the law. Instead, they believe the real reason they are going after him is to prevent him from winning a second term.
"Polls tell the story. After Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg charged Trump on March 30 with criminally concealing hush-money payments to porn star Stormy Daniels, a stunning 76% of respondents described the charges as politically motivated. In other words, three out of four believed they were essentially fraudulent. When special prosecutor Jack Smith charged Trump three months later with security violations in connection with 31 sensitive defence documents squirreled away in his Mar-a-Lago home, 62% said the charges were political as well. Where only 43% of Republicans backed Trump prior to the first indictment, his support rose to 55% after the second....."
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1455/closer-to-the-brink/
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 16:31 utc | 13
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 16:13 utc | 8
###########
After the 2016 election, some House Democrats attempted a coup against the election results by bringing the Russia nonsense into the picture, which we know today was a bonafide coup attempt that undermined America for all of Trump's first term.
Now, if you're comparing what Trump did to Russiagate, then I might have a little sympathy for your argument.
But that isn't the argument you're making, is it?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:34 utc | 15
The normalization of lawfare use against a past president and current leading candidate based on specious or conjectural “conspiracy” charges can’t be overstated. This man attracted north of 70 million votes in the past election.
What kind of political atmosphere are we going to have if Trump wins again in ‘24? Can one imagine the sheer will for revenge that is burning in the hearts of millions of his supporters right now?
Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 16:36 utc | 16
There is only one cure. Paper votes, hand counting and representatives for all interested parties as observers.
I cannot see how this is not going to end in bloodshed.
It is just a matter of time, before people revolt.
In a way I'm surprised it has not already happened.
Posted by: g wiltek | Aug 15 2023 16:07 utc | 4
#########
I am dismayed that more people don't think Trial by Combat is a valid way to resolve this contest.
And the people won't revolt. Most gladly bent over for the COVID delusion, and more and more men are OnlyFans Simps today. A people literally too soft to save themselves, and the powers that be know that. They created these conditions over decades exploiting our the weaknesses in our dopamine responses to pleasure by drowning people in decadence and degeneracy.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:39 utc | 17
Somewhere I read special council was made for hunter Biden case specifically to impede congressional republican investigations against hunter Biden. I think the y r right because this is the same guy who offered the sweetheart deal to hunter.
Now they can block all congressional subpoena by claiming they can't talk about active investigation
Posted by: A.z | Aug 15 2023 16:43 utc | 18
Posted by: g wiltek | Aug 15 2023 16:07 utc | 4
Vote manipulation is the rule, not the exception.
Consider what Stalin said, "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."
The establishment of both parties would have rigged the vote count in their favour. In 2020, the Democratic establishment traded congressional votes for presidential votes from the Republican establishment, thus creating a severe discrepancy between the two.
Posted by: Colin | Aug 15 2023 16:48 utc | 19
The normalization of lawfare use against a past president and current leading candidate based on specious or conjectural “conspiracy” charges can’t be overstated. This man attracted north of 70 million votes in the past election.
Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 16:36 utc | 15
##########
Americans that mostly stay silent about bombing wedding parties and Gitmo torture, aren't going to worry too much about their "enemy".
Trump supporters are not fellow citizens. They are terrorists programmed by the same media that informs us that Zelensky is a champion of democracy. And terrorists are bad, so they are due no process or rights, the same goes for Trump. Read Mr. Wolfe's comment @ #8 above for a sample of the lack of good faith in the pursuit of "justice".
I wish the people who are damning Truump for a "coup" applied a fraction of that criticism to their country's color revolutions and NGO-driven foreign policy agenda.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:49 utc | 20
Trump stipulated in writing to a court of law that there was no voter fraud in Wisconsin while publicly saying the state was "stolen.". He either lied to the court or to the public. There are no consequences for the ladder. It works every time. The same thing happened in PA. Rudy Guiliani emphatically denied that he was making any form of voter fraud claim in front of a Pennsylvania judge. Trump did not come forward before a court of law with a single voter fraud claim. Trump's own attorney general denies his claims. There are many allegations but none have withstood scrutiny and none were brought before a court. The only claims he made were procedural and he lost in front of more than 65 courts. Even judges he appointed ruled against him.
A granular examination of the election results reveals why Trump lost. It wasn't fraud. Republicans and independents who voted for Trump in '16 turned against him in '20. That was where he lost the election. He actually did slightly better in places that are being charged with voter fraud.
Posted by: David | Aug 15 2023 16:52 utc | 21
In all the states mentioned here audits and recounts were held, multiple times in some cases. Trump lost. There was never any doubt. The U.S. system of elections works quite well. But you don't always get what you want. Moreover, Trump is guilty of most--maybe all--of the charges against him. Hopefully, he and his co-conspirators will end up in jail by no later than early next year. He can run for president from prison. Could he serve as president in prison????
Posted by: Cesar Jeopardy | Aug 15 2023 16:56 utc | 22
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:39 utc | 16
Deception and folly are the norm, not the exception.
Society is indeed deteriorating, with few advancements facing setbacks (such as the rights of transgender individuals).
Disclosure: I am a heterosexual cisgender male.
Interestingly, election fraud was one of the few truths spoken by Trump, yet many consider it to be false.
Due to the widespread extreme allegiance to Zionism, I have no interest in any candidate.
Even the progressives are Zionists; they simply hope that Zionism doesn't overreach, jeopardizing the long-term survival of the Zionist racial segregation colonial regime, which is the last direct colonial rule of Europeans over non-Europeans based on white supremacy after South Africa.
Posted by: Colin | Aug 15 2023 17:06 utc | 23
Full court press from a corrupt state engaging in political persecution. This won't end well. Somebody get the popcorn factory, we are going to need it. As someone said, if not for schadenfreude I wouldn't have any schaden at all.
Maericans are so deluded by their state they are unable to see this for what it is,.only able to use the partisan lenses provided for them by the media, instead of considering if they want to live in a country that engages in such misuse of the criminsl justice system.
As an outlander, I think Maerican politics a silly little dog and pony show between 'choosing' between a giant douche and a turd sandiwch, but it is still a sight to see Maerica become a banana republic.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 15 2023 17:07 utc | 24
The U.S. system of elections works quite well.
Posted by: Cesar Jeopardy | Aug 15 2023 16:56 utc | 21
Yes, in the sense of serving the imperialist mainstream.
Considering how Bush seemingly stole the election in 2000, and how the capitalists managed to have Trump elected in 2016 despite a lack of majority votes, largely for the corporate tax cuts (though the PPP loan giveaways did fit the superficial 'bipartisan consensus'), any critical observer with a decent memory would likely challenge the notion that the U.S. elections function 'well'.
Posted by: Colin | Aug 15 2023 17:11 utc | 25
things I never expect to hear- "The U.S. system of elections works quite well."
It does, I suppose, for those who benefit.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Aug 15 2023 17:14 utc | 26
Lovedonbass #19: I agree. But it is exactly this loss of perspective I’m talking about … it is unprecedented in recent American experience.
Perhaps tribalist liberals like Mr. Wolfe will live to regret their lawfare decision when the shoe is on the other foot, as it inevitably will be sometime.
Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 17:14 utc | 27
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 15 2023 17:07 utc | 23
Considering the key features of a banana republic: monopolistic rule by big capital, high polarization between rich and poor, and the enslavement of the population by military and political elites for the sake of monopoly capital - when has the United States not been a banana republic?
Posted by: Colin | Aug 15 2023 17:16 utc | 28
Oops, seems the US Uniparty has bit itself in the balls.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 15 2023 17:18 utc | 29
I don't see Kennedy making a difference.
His poll numbers are sinking.
Posted by: John Kirsch | Aug 15 2023 17:19 utc | 30
strangely, interested observers hew to the useless term of "voter fraud" when the problem being faced is electoral fraud. Maybe theyre just stupid? Maybe not that stupid? Somebody blow up that gaslight pipeline please. set some standards or add this horse shit to that list of lies.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Aug 15 2023 17:22 utc | 31
The point is Trump will be crippled for the general election, throw enough shit against the wall....The hardcore will hold but the mushy middle will run away. The question of electability will be paramount. And Biden needs him to run, he can't beat anyone else.'Trump Derangement Syndrome' will decide the election like last time.
RFKjr could be an interesting spoiler, but I doubt it.
Trump is as much a lying, scheming, grifter as any other US politician. Neither he nor Biden are morally fit to be President. Of course, morals don't matter to politicians as has been repeatedly demonstrated over the last 50 years. It doesn't matter who gets elected, the US is rapidly becoming a third world country, and neither of those scum bags will prevent its demise.
Posted by: CrzKat | Aug 15 2023 17:28 utc | 33
1. Of 63 cases brought, only 3 went through of which Trump won two. All the rest were rejected due to lack of standing. So it is false that 60+ cases found them wrong.
2. My bet is at least one State case and one federal case (DC) will yield a guilty verdict.
3. If Trump's lawyers don't counter sue the State of GA and the DA in Fulton County et alia (inc. AG Bill Barr & J. Biden) for criminal racketeering to undermine an election and making false accusations to cover up their crimes they should be disbarred. It's about time Trump got off defense and attacked back. His lawyers are all chicken – for good, if not honorable, reasons. Such a counter-suit, if won, could prove a tectonic political game-changer.
4. The (also Deep State) Establishment GOP: When Trump is found guilty of one count they will remove him as a candidate as is their prerogative. I think this is where this is all headed.
5. Trump + RFKJr: my suggestion when RFK Jr entered. But neither man will do it nor either Party permit it. The window for a 3rd Party run is closing (???). Any such right-left 'True Reform' combination would win in a landslide (absent fraud). Nobody is attempting it, probably because:
6. All this drama is just part of a soon-to-be-discontinued Reality TV Republic Series (my default explanation), probably because:
7. The Republic fell quite some time ago.
[243 words]
🔴
@34 Scorpion, could you please provide links to your point #1, that Trump won two cases? Thanks.
Posted by: susan mullen | Aug 15 2023 17:39 utc | 35
Posted by: Myke Simonian | Aug 15 2023 17:28 utc | 32
In my opinion, Trump and Biden should both go to jail, along with half of Congress and most of Corporate America.
=========================================
Using that logic and while you are at it, I don't see why you don't also throw in jail every single person who voted for either man.
If humanity is extinguished by global warming, *therein* will lie the reason: the obdurate refusal to admit to the evidence of one's eyes.
Posted by: Myke Simonian | Aug 15 2023 17:28 utc | 32
#########
In the absence of a belief in divine power, people will attribute divine power and moral judgment to almost anything. Any idol, any feature of geography, any other human being.
If one believes in a higher power, global warming is not a threat in the existential sense. Global warming is an issue for people who place human life at the top of the value structure.
That we're stubborn as a species is a survival feature. Humans would not have made it far enough to believe they are Gods themselves if they gave up easily when times become tough.
Personally, if global warming extinguishes all human life, that's as it was meant to be. I believe in pre-destiny. Nothing is a coincidence or without purpose.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 17:40 utc | 37
RFK will function as as spoiler - siphoning off just enough Trump votes to elect whomever is the Democrat puppet. A Ross Perot to Bob Dole.
Posted by: comrade simba | Aug 15 2023 17:45 utc | 38
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 17:40 utc | 37
In the absence of a belief in divine power, people will attribute divine power and moral judgment to almost anything. Any idol, any feature of geography, any other human being.
=======================================================
'Global climate change' is the reductionist materialist equivalent of a 'higher power.'
This higher power has neither intelligence, intention or empathy, like the imagined universe it is (faith-based) believed to arise from.
Primitive beliefs and superstitions.... still dragging them along into the future, century after century....
Same old story.
@Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:49 utc | 19
Totally agree. The concept of national identity is squishy and subject to change, especially here in the U.S. where we citizens have been spoiled and brainwashed to treat "our team" like fanboys. The U.S. empire is falling apart. The 24 election will open deeper fractures among fans as more and more will choose a target of their outrage and sign up for team membership. RFK jr. will encourage and ultimately draw a small but significant percentage of Dems away from the DNC. These will be traditional blue collar, ethnic (Mexican, Black, etc) and their defection will be permanent. Meanwhile, the Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham repubs who shivved Trump in 20 will be there with Bolton, Haley, Desantis, Barr, Pence, Pompeo, whoever to audition for positions as Republican deep state bootlickers. Meanwhile, rednecks will get more violent. Blue teamers will try and circle their wagons more in gated subdivisions and super secured air b&b's. Forget public education. Public sector will rot.
bottom line, Trump will not be allowed to get close to the White House. Biden's team will "win"-- likely without him--, RFK Jr will go back to Hollywood if he leaves the race soon enough to remove him from the hit list, Cornell West will not be allowed a platform, and the Empire will consolidate around the DNC as the world turns away in disgust. Oh, and most areas in the U.S. will witness a massive rise in gangs which will challenge local authorities as they grow like a cancer.
Posted by: migueljose | Aug 15 2023 17:55 utc | 40
https://time.com/6264019/trump-indictment-charges-campaign-donations/
A section of the RC seems to have seen what B is seeing with all this lawfare against Trump. I tend to agree. Should trump run from a jail cell his martyr status will be overwhelmingly powerful with at least a third of the country.
It's not just the obvious effort to use the courts to bury their biggest political threat which is patent, but also the BS nature of almost every single case. Only the J6 prosecution seems somewhat substantial, if you accept their line that it was an insurection, which is hard when you accept there were no guns, apparently no plan and no professionals on the ground...on trump's side at least. To most it looked like one of many riots that were fomented by the Dems throughout 2020, but less violent, really.
He and his followers are painfully naive, but looking at the Dem section of the RC, it's not hard to understand his appeal.
Nonetheless, there is no way forward following a billionaire capitalist who is keen on a war with China. If he succeeds by some miracle, that's what you'll get: more oligarchic capitalism and war with China.
If he fails, you'll get just about the same thing, with more focus on Russia and a lot of idpol human rights posturing to accompany the massacres.
The people of the US are on their own. They have to find their own leadership and set their own program or well just keep on in this direction.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 17:55 utc | 41
@ g wiltek | Aug 15 2023 16:07 utc | 4
Indeed, why haven’t people revolted yet? Simply because (1) they lack organization and (2) they’re cowards. They love to bellyache about the need to take out their targets, but they're not about to do it.
This will turn on a dime the minute local authorities have their back. Then the cowards will discover tgeir courage—with a vengeance, so to speak. Then the large-scale bloodshed begins.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 17:55 utc | 42
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 17:55 utc | 42
Mr. Big balls! What are you doing to organize these "cowards" as you refer to the working class victims of a militarized dictatorship of finance capital? The workers have good reason to be cautious in their approach and await an opportunity to move.
What's lacking is leadership and perspective. On what program would you have them organize, tough guy?
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 17:59 utc | 43
I can't think of anything more clownish than the belief that Trump is some kind of national freedom fighter.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Aug 15 2023 16:29 utc | 10
My take of Trump is that a lot of conservaties got into thinking that Trump was more conservative than he actually was. Most of it was projecting, not outright lying by Trump. The reality of Trump is that he expected to make things better with better decisions, not by reforming the system. On that level he was a success. Now I suppose, like a lot of us here, he is wishing he had been more radical.
For myself I have a long history of voting against the Democrats. That locks me into voting for Trump for a reason that is well stated by Abraham Hamadeh.
"It's simple. Our country will not survive this continuous assault on the rule of law. Any suggestions that the party needs to abandon Trump to make it all go away would only reward the Democrats destructive behavior. it is time for Republicans to unite behind Trump."
Posted by: Jmaas | Aug 15 2023 18:00 utc | 44
This is How the Weekly Worker article (link @12)concludes:
"Who will win? With crime up more than 50% since the mid-2010s, homelessness reaching epidemic proportions, and a president and vice-president who are both personally unpopular, it is looking more and more like it will not be the Democrats. Indeed, if you toss in inflation and a faltering counter-offensive in Ukraine, Democratic fortunes look even worse.
"Conceivably, the party could turn things around by easing Biden out of the way, and bringing in Democrats from outside Washington who are younger and more dynamic - people like California governor Gavin Newsom or Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer. But Biden is stubborn, even though he is so decrepit at the age of 80 that he is practically a second Konstantin Chernenko. The upshot is a Trump-Biden rematch that Trump might very well win....
"...A Trump victory also means that the police will be unleashed, racism will rise, and harsher measures will be brought to bear against everyone from homeless drug-users to women in need of an abortion and desperate migrants trying to make their way across the border. The ‘Texasisation’ of America will be complete. With Trump now inveighing against ‘leftists’ at every turn - “they are communists, they’re Marxists, and they’re people that don’t get it,” he said of the Biden forces last week - there is little doubt that socialists will also get it in the neck.
"Internationally, the results will be no less pronounced. John Bolton - national security advisor until Trump fired him in September 2019 - recently warned that Trump will pull out of Nato if elected, leaving the alliance as little more than a hollow husk.6 But, even if he does not, rightwing nationalism will still surge, as Poland, Hungary and the Baltic states take a tip from the United States and institute mini-MAGAs (‘Make America Great Again’) of their own. France, Germany, and the rest of the European Union will have little choice but to follow suit....
"As Trump moves to settle the Donbas war on terms favourable to Russia, the upshot will be to reduce Ukraine to an embittered neo-Nazi rump state - further destabilising a region already suffering from overload. Criticism of Israel will cease, Netanyahu will have more of a free hand than ever, while relations with Iran will plunge to a new low. The outlook is less clear for China, since Trump tends to tread cautiously when it comes to the People’s Republic, despite his tough-guy rhetoric. But, given that the United States is already on a collision course with the PRC, there is no reason to think that imperialism will reverse course. A clash seems inevitable.
"If Biden ekes out a victory, on the other hand, the day of reckoning may be forestalled. But it is only a matter of time until the imperial-constitutional collapse resumes, since the process is essentially unstoppable. When a global hegemon breaks down, no corner of the globe is left untouched."
Those who criticise b's close attention to this matter should read Lazare's sentences again
"...it is only a matter of time until the imperial-constitutional collapse resumes, since the process is essentially unstoppable. When a global hegemon breaks down, no corner of the globe is left untouched."
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 18:01 utc | 45
We will see if the Fat Boy suffers any consequences--
He has been a criminal all his life, with no consequences.
While not the brightest porch light on the block, he does know how to rip people off.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Aug 15 2023 18:01 utc | 46
I'm not sure just how much Trump has engaged in criminal activities, but no one in construction in NYC gets anything done without "greasing the wheels of progress".
Posted by: Immaculate deception | Aug 15 2023 18:03 utc | 47
@ Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 17:59 utc | 43
Why do you assume I am or even should be interested in organizing anything? As an individual all I can do is observe. Did I say anything that was objectively false? Strange you didn’t address that.
Besides, one thing I’ve learned from you Trotsky fanbois is how much you despise faggots—you’re just like the Stalin fanbois that way; just another group that rejected god but kept Leviticus—so if I’m going to be doing any organizing, it won’t be among your ilk. ESAD, FOAD.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 18:09 utc | 48
We will see if the Fat Boy suffers any consequences--
He has been a criminal all his life, with no consequences.
While not the brightest porch light on the block, he does know how to rip people off.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Aug 15 2023 18:01 utc | 46
Don't get sucked into the RC game, Duncan. They want you to root for one of the two false alternatives. Wish downfall on both sides or become their tool.
Trump may get his just deserts, then what? And who's leading that charge against him? What do they have in store for us all once trump is buried.
I say let them kill each other and expose imperialism for what it is. Meanwhile, the wage/debt slaves should be organizing their own movement to seize power and right the ship.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 18:11 utc | 49
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 18:01 utc | 45
Is that the weekly worker? Sounds more like the weekly Democrat. The dark conclusion seems about right though.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 18:12 utc | 50
"Now, if you're comparing what Trump did to Russiagate, then I might have a little sympathy for your argument.
"But that isn't the argument you're making, is it?"
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:34 utc | 14
----
Nope, that is not the point of Wolfe's "cherry-picking" exercise. It's just the usual rank regressive hypocrisy.
Hillary knowingly perpetrated massive election fraud on Americans by funding the pre-election Russiagate hoax. Somehow that's free speech?
Also, from a related ZH article:
According to Clinton, who destroyed evidence with bleachbit and hammers, ran an illegal server out of her house containing highly classified documents, and was given a 'no reasonable prosecutor' pass by the FBI, Trump's indictments represent a "terrible moment" for America, and that "The only satisfaction may be that the system is working."
In 2019, Hillary Clinton said, "You can run the best campaign, you can even become the nominee, and you can have the election stolen from you."
In Hillary's case, that's protected free speech. In Trump’s case it's criminal conspiracy.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Aug 15 2023 18:13 utc | 51
"...What's lacking is leadership and perspective..." Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 17:59 utc | 43
There is a lot more missing than that. And one major problem is the disunity among the powerless people: ethnic, religious, ideological fissures of the sort that are evidenced on this board. There is an underlying sectarianism in US politics which renders any political movement from below problematic and always has.
On the other hand as the dire influence of Generation X and its progeny dies away there are signs, in Ontario anyway, that the coming generation is less interested in swallowing shit than the people who put up with the eighties and nineties, neo-liberalism and the imperialism that drove Kurtz mad.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 18:14 utc | 52
If RFK Jr and Trump join up there will never have been a more Zionist US presidential ticket in history. Their combined love for apartheid Israel would rip a hole in spacetime and we'd all be sucked in.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 15 2023 18:15 utc | 53
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 15 2023 18:15 utc | 53
If RFK Jr and Trump join up there will never have been a more Zionist US presidential ticket in history. Their combined love for apartheid Israel would rip a hole in spacetime and we'd all be sucked in.
===========================================
Quite possible. But if it DID happen, their right-left coalition would be so strong they would have a shot at cleaning the Augean stables, AIPAC and all. As long as this ridiculous (deliberately conceived) left vs right paradigm continues they are impossible to shake off, like dogshit on a shoe.
Hint:
I'm not a Dim or Repug---
At least with Repugs you know how slimy and morally corrupt they are, and they are proud of it.
With Dims, they are sneaky, and holding their noses.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Aug 15 2023 18:23 utc | 55
https://scheerpost.com/2023/08/13/chris-hedges-robert-f-kennedy-jr-the-israel-lobbys-useful-idiot/
Hedges is no fan of Democrats or the deep state.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 15 2023 18:26 utc | 56
Over and over in the MSM I hear “baseless claims of election fraud”.
Never in my 65 years of watching democratic elections across the globe have I ever witnessed the counting of the votes stop for hours,
So there is the base for the claim. Just like building 7. We start from the base for the claim. Just another to add to the list of TNI/MSN lies. There most certainly is a base for the claim.
Doesn’t matter if you like Trump or not, the democratic vote count was stopped only once. Biden was losing, clear as day. Just as Hillary was shocked at her loss.
Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Aug 15 2023 18:29 utc | 57
There is a lot more missing than that. And one major problem is the disunity among the powerless people: ethnic, religious, ideological fissures of the sort that are evidenced on this board. There is an underlying sectarianism in US politics which renders any political movement from below problematic and always has.
On the other hand as the dire influence of Generation X and its progeny dies away there are signs, in Ontario anyway, that the coming generation is less interested in swallowing shit than the people who put up with the eighties and nineties, neo-liberalism and the imperialism that drove Kurtz mad.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2023 18:14 utc | 52
Hence the need for leadership.
"ethnic, religious, ideological fissures": effects of the propaganda of the ruling class, which would be cured by class leadership and organization. The working class in objectively united already. Plus racial intermarriage is so common now as to be ignored in the US. The race problem is Dem hype almost everywhere in the country. I can't speak for the former Confederate states, but nobody cares everywhere else.
sectarianism: you like this word. In this context, I presume you mean rooting for one of the two RC parties. For solution, see above.
"the coming generation is less interested in swallowing shit than the people who put up with the eighties and nineties, neo-liberalism and the imperialism that drove Kurtz mad". There you go!
A wise man once said, "Everyone responds differently to a political argument, but they all respond the same way to a hot poker.". It's just going to get hotter.
I don't want to seem remiss. The answer is very simple, but the execution is the hard part. It will be no cake walk. People will have to be ready to die to make it happen, but look at the scoreboard. We're approaching that moment rapidly. Time for the radicalized intellectuals to get off their ass and start the reeducation of the American worker.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 18:32 utc | 58
Just as Hillary was shocked at her loss.
Actually she got 2.9 million more votes than the Fat Boy--
She lost the electoral votes.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Aug 15 2023 18:33 utc | 59
Jesus wept! Why oh why would anyone, in a relatively healthy frame of mind, entertain the possibility of allowing the great-facilitator of the warp-speed, I'm scared so stupid as to listen to a huckster sell the cattle-tag clot-shot, which is the gift that keeps on giving as it continues to maim, kill and crippled millions?
Posted by: EdLess | Aug 15 2023 18:39 utc | 60
an underlying sectarianism in US politics which renders any political movement from below problematic
Not by accident, channeling political frustrations into hatred of the other, combined with the mentality of a sports team. The Greens and Blues of Constantinople. In this way the rage is ne'er directed at the true authors of misfortune but rather their simpering marionettes who are at a plausibly deniable distance. Many of those marionettes do not even realize their position, thinking themselves to be Real Boys, with apologies.
The political calculus to manipulate the mob has reached an apex in its sophistication and digitalization. The Stasi could not even imagine the panoptical powers that the alphabet soup has appropriated for itself and must spin in their graves in purest vile jealousy.
There seems little redeemable about the situation. Its a comforting fiction, the idea that our politician-actors have meaningful power, I'll grant. But the reality is of cold hard power behind the throne, regardless of the figurehead stumbling about the stage.
The disunity noted has been and will continue to be effectively exploited in such a way as to prevent effective popular opposition. Where that leads I don't know. We do not live in an era where pitchforks can topple kingdoms.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 15 2023 18:46 utc | 61
Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 15 2023 18:15 utc | 53
Yes, indeed, think of the finance synergy in a pro-Zionst, pro-Apartheid Trump-RFK Jr ticket ... perfect joint candidates for the igNobel Peace Prize.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Aug 15 2023 18:51 utc | 62
I loathe trump with a passion but must admit, a lot of this seems superfluous and exaggerated. By all rights, he should have been imprisoned when he assassinated a foreign general outside of any war zone. But of course, it was an Iranian so that would never fly in the land of the terminally brainwashed.
RFKj is just another pathetic zionist pig with crazy ideas and a few sane ones but that ticket is scary as hell.
Posted by: hedllykarok | Aug 15 2023 18:51 utc | 63
The Trump indictments continue the trend by Democrats against free thought and speech, such as criminalizing the misgendering of transvestites. It's a bold new world, watch what you think and say.
Posted by: Gareth | Aug 15 2023 18:53 utc | 64
Once again, the usual liberal slime has infested the bar. Wolfe and the Inkanafo reptillian have been offended by b's description of the current events in the circus that is the US presidential elections and the fanfare surrounding it. They assert that an attempted coup d'etat is falsely described as some form of political persecution.
Well, did these liberal lickspittles maintain a remotely consistent stance for the open disregard of the 2016 election results by their own team (which is the Deep State, not just the DNC)? Were they offended similarly by the blatant subversion of any constitutional norms by the imperialist apparatus and its muppets who were shouting "not my president" when their degenerate, fascist darling of a liberal, Hillary Clinton lost fair and square in what they considered was done deal? No, of course, because fascist trash, however they may label themselves, stick to the narrative of the powers-that-be. In the case of the liberals, add a massive dose of vomit-inducing hypocrisy.
Trump was a joker like Obama, the other candidate of potential change. He failed to make any meaningful, transformation of US policies, especially in the foreign affairs, like his predecessor, but unlike him, he failed to promote an image of progress. In fact, he showed with his rhetoric the real face of the Anglo-American empire. Typically, this is why he was really hated.
This is the actual problem with the later day liberal cancer, which has little to do with classical liberalism and everything to do with a highly polished vesrsion of fascism by Edward Bernays prescriptions. The liberals have an utmost obligation to lie to themselves and engage in self-deception. Hence the vomit-inducing levels of hypocrisy.
They will champion totalitarian practices, engage in effectively racist policies, destroy entire communities domestically and beyond, but all of it must absolutely be framed as a struggle for progress and "rules-based order". This is not a trivial issue and not just necessary to deceive others (although the latter use is obvious), but of paramount importance, fist and foremost to themselves.
The posters mentioned above exemplify this mentality. The Inkanafo, especially, is a rare case that contributes at times in the various threads in reverse: he expresses the verminous qualities of the neoliberal fascists splendidly.
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 15 2023 18:53 utc | 65
Speak of the zionist devil, this just posted today on Consortium News:
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/08/15/chris-hedges-the-israel-lobbys-useful-idiot/
Posted by: hedlykarok | Aug 15 2023 18:54 utc | 66
One group just under the surface that democrats relied on previously is the "Bernie/AOC" voter. That is younger voters. This time around there is nobody sheepdogging younger voters into supporting party hacks. Both Bernie and the Fraud Squad have been exposed as establishment phonies.
Also if Biden is suddenly pronounced unfit to run, I would not be surprised if the DNC leadership appoint Hillary Clinton as their candidate.
Posted by: Erelis | Aug 15 2023 19:05 utc | 67
[email protected] only we all had your level of bravery, will you lead the charge?
It is easier and much safer to fight the God of Mammon by depriving it of the fuel that feeds it.....nothing complicated about it.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 15 2023 19:05 utc | 68
...That conspiracy amounted to an attempted coup, or the reversal of actual election results. This has nothing to do with free speech.
...
Shame on you.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 16:13 utc | 8
The details might be debatable, but the behavior of the Democrats is clear. If they had pursued this in a sober and evenhanded way, I might listen. But they haven't, and I'm not interested in hearing anything they have to say on the subject. The fruit of the poisonous tree will always be poisonous.
As for your disgust with b, may we assume that you'll therefore stop posting here?
Posted by: Boris Badenov | Aug 15 2023 19:07 utc | 69
Full Phone Call: Trump Pressures Georgia Secretary of State To Recount Election Votes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA
Maybe all the drunks here forgot a little episode with a dude named Rod Blagojevich:
Mr. Blagojevich, a Democrat and former governor of Illinois, was accused of trying to sell the Senate seat left open when Barack Obama went to the White House.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/us/rod-blagojevich-sentence.html
He was convicted.
Trump commuted his sentence.
b and this threads cadre of Trump apologists are wandering lost in the forest of their own denial.
Posted by: Arrnon | Aug 15 2023 19:23 utc | 70
[email protected] only we all had your level of bravery, will you lead the charge?It is easier and much safer to fight the God of Mammon by depriving it of the fuel that feeds it.....nothing complicated about it.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 15 2023 19:05 utc | 68
Not having made any claim to bravery, I have no idea wrf you’re talking about.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 19:30 utc | 71
[email protected] knows Trump got installed by Putin....that's why you always let the hooker pee all over you, then you get elected, and Congress saves you at every turn of the judicial screw.....and I don't like Trump, but you are missing some big bits.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 15 2023 19:31 utc | 72
Erelis: Indeed, there’s no shortage of Dims, including the Gorgon herself, who insist that it’s STILL HER TURN.
What’s more, I’m sure it’s no coincidence that the MSM sticks a microphone in front of her mug on an almost daily basis—much more than one would expect for an anonymous senator and failed Sec of State.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 19:34 utc | 73
A poster upstream takes issue with my critical comment and asks me not to post here. Do you guys cancel too?
The answer is no, unless I'm banned. So let me make two more important points:
1. at the close, b suggested an RFK VP role with Trump. Hate to burst your bubble, but RFK already said, emphatically, that he would not run with Trump. Not positive, but I think I saw that on the Jimmy Dore interview.
2. I understand those who reject the election overthrow indictments and don't trust media because the Dems and corporate media manufactured the Russia-gate hoax, impeached Trump on minor BS, and exaggerated the Jan 6 riot. But that does not mean the indictments are another sham sham.
What I think is being overlooked and the best theory of the Jan 6 riot is that Trump used the "riot" in hopes of delaying the certification to buy time to appeal to the US Supreme Court. Clarence Thomas' wife publicly stated that a brief was filed and was in the possession of Alito, but he pocketed it after the riot failed.
But the reason that the Dems and the media won't even mention this theory is that it would suggest that Trump (and Eastman) had legitimate legal arguments and thereby undermine the prosecution by creating reasonable doubt about Trump's actual intent. Regardless of this legitimate argument (that no one is making), I think the prosecution could still prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, based on lots of other evidence in the indictment, the Congressional hearing record, and likely to follow at trial.
In fact, the federal indictment even attempts to preemptively dismiss this theory by stating that Trump's lawyers concluded that there would be no support at the Supreme Court. That part of the indictment is actually evidence that they are trying to discredit this theory (which I assume Trump's lawyers will make).
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 19:47 utc | 74
@74
I didn't ask you not to post. Rather, I was pointing out that it's a bit rich to crap on b while making use of his board. How about a bit of courtesy for our sponsor?
Posted by: Boris Badenov | Aug 15 2023 19:50 utc | 75
Just as Hillary was shocked at her loss.
Actually she got 2.9 million more votes than the Fat Boy--
She lost the electoral votes.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Aug 15 2023 18:33 utc | 59
From: Moscow, Idaho ?
FWIW, The United States of America is not and never has been a Democracy. It is, at least in theory, a Democratic Republic, where, in a Presidential election, the plurality of votes in any one of the 50 U.S. States, go to election of State "electors" who, in turn, get to vote in the Electoral College.
If not set up in this manner, the U.S.A. would invariably be run by the States with the most population.
Trump, warts and all, is detested by on-the-take U.S. Politicians, both Democrat and Republicans, along with 99% of the Government employees, bureaucrats and Apparatchiks, who drink heartily out of the tax pool, and, so far, unlimited borrowings, in DC.
Other U.S. Billionaires, for competitive reasons, greed, and crass jealousy hate Trump for his brass balls in going for and winning the Presidency.
These "Trumped-up" charges are the declaration to anyone who dares to challenge the unstated, but understood, power of the Deep State (the Blob) that has unchecked, so far, power within the U.S. Dirty Agencies, including the U.S. Department or Injustice and the American Gestapo, the FBI and CIA.
The parasites have feasted heavily on the host, and the U.S.A. stands no chance of recovery. And, in some ways, the World watches in amazement. Some in awe of the insanity, others with delight in the comeuppance.
Posted by: kupkee | Aug 15 2023 19:51 utc | 76
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 15 2023 16:34 utc | 14
What the Dems did post 2016 (and 2000) elections objections were open, on the record, factual, in good faith, and in accordance with law.
What Trump's people did was completely different. It was secret, conspiratorial, false, based on lies and false assertion, in bad faith, and illegal.
Have I made the distinctions clear enough for you?
What I remain baffled by is the consistent pattern I find: those that have the clearest military and foreign policy analyses are way off into conspiracy theory land on US domestic politics and policy. I find this everywhere I go.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 19:54 utc | 77
Besides, one thing I’ve learned from you Trotsky fanbois is how much you despise faggots—you’re just like the Stalin fanbois that way; just another group that rejected god but kept Leviticus—so if I’m going to be doing any organizing, it won’t be among your ilk. ESAD, FOAD.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 18:09 utc | 48
Come on now, tiger. I don't despise faggots, although I prefer to refer to them as queers, which seems to make everyone happy.
Any real adherent of revolutionary Marxism could care less about who people fuck. The problem is, many queers, although wage/debt slaves themselves, seem to buy into the oligarchs idea that they are somehow a nation apart from the rest and as such should only concern themselves with bullshit issues like gay marriage or trans rights. They even sell imperialist wars to them as a battle for queer freedoms now. Disgusting!
That false consciousness is not just tragic, but frustrating. And that's just one of the manifold false bourgeois identities they have created to encourage broke fools to identify with imperialist goals.
Oh, and let's not forget the patriotic American identity crafted long ago to draw straight working class white males into supporting imperialist politics. That one is not promoted so much anymore as the Republicans have almost no influence in the media or education, but it remains a problem.
Lastly, considering heterosexuality the norm doesn't come from the bible. That's just nature, like the sun rising in the morning. Any fool can see that.
I could go on but most of the good people at the bar already know.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 19:56 utc | 78
Humanity is in a civilization war over public/private finance
American's and the West hangers on are enthralled with the Hollywood scripting of "reality" as a sovereign based multipolar system of finance is born around them.
I see the Western Hollywood movie as being interrupted prior to the US presidential (s)election and think that world events will override empire scripting. That said, either of the crooks offered by the nuanced sides of the money party are fitting faces for the downfall of The God Of Mammon form of social organization.
I laugh at commenters that praise Trump for lying, cheating and stealing because he is getting away with it and so that must mean he is a good person..../shades of the Pompeo grift.
I want to see the R grifters grow some balls and impeach Biden so we can have some real exposure of that corrupt family as well as Trump.
The shit show continues until it doesn't and think of the education the RoW is getting in how not to run a society......I suppose there is something to be said for insuring social change and make it lasting by fully deprecating the previous shit show in all its gory glory to some bitter end.....
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 15 2023 19:57 utc | 79
The disunity noted has been and will continue to be effectively exploited in such a way as to prevent effective popular opposition. Where that leads I don't know. We do not live in an era where pitchforks can topple kingdoms.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 15 2023 18:46 utc | 61
We'll see about that, Doc.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 19:59 utc | 80
RFK on Tucker Carlson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN5A6lhjV0c
Speaks on Secret Service denial, Ukraine, US bio-weapon labs, and border security.
Contrast his mind with Trump or Biden and is no comparison.
Not pleased with stance on Israel thus far but everything else looks far better than anything the others offer.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/08/03/rfk-jr-israel-palestine-dialogue/
Posted by: Thurl | Aug 15 2023 20:00 utc | 81
Actually she got 2.9 million more votes than the Fat Boy--
She lost the electoral votes.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Aug 15 2023 18:33 utc | 59
You sure you're above the RC game, Duncan? Fuck Hillary Clinton and the horse she road in on!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 20:01 utc | 82
It's all very theatrical, I'd say, and completely farcical. They should run the whole thing on Saturday Night Live, where it actually belongs.
Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 17:59 utc | 43
***... working class victims of a militarized dictatorship of finance capital? The workers have good reason to be cautious in their approach and await an opportunity to move.***
Once they're all chipped or genetically modified, that wait could be forever.
Posted by: Cynic | Aug 15 2023 20:02 utc | 84
@75
Dear Borris - here's what you wrote:
"As for your disgust with b, may we assume that you'll therefore stop posting here?"
You now try to claim that this is Not a request not to post? WTF!
In term of your view of a lack of my "courtesy" toward b, in my book, there is no greater sign of respect that for a comment to take issue with a post, on substantive grounds. That's the highest form of courtesy, my friend.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Aug 15 2023 20:09 utc | 85
I used to make fun by suggesting an alliance between RFK and CW...
Considering this new video in Biden´s case by The Duran:
https://theduran.com/merrick-garlands-special-counsel-cover-up/
I assume it will come down to no conviction of any candidate incumbent or not.
What remains unclear is the New York indictment case of Trump that will start a few days after Super Tuesday 2024.
Honestly none of this makes sense.
It´s clear to me that Trump would have accepted a second term if handed to him by some unconstitutional scam which did not materialize.
As much it is clear that Biden Sr. is corrupt as much.
Apart from the truism that both are gangsters and should be in prison for all of their misdeeds of the past 40 years.
Posted by: AG | Aug 15 2023 20:16 utc | 86
You sure you're above the RC game, Duncan? Fuck Hillary Clinton and the horse she road in on!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 20:01 utc | 82
--------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you about Hillary Ahenobarbus, but fuck Trump as well, he is the Horse that shit on America.
Posted by: Ed | Aug 15 2023 20:19 utc | 87
The previous three charges don’t matter to me at all. I don’t care in the slightest when, whether, or how he cavorted with a whore trade-named Stormi or what he paid her for what, or even whether she’s telling the truth or lying. I don’t care in the slightest where, when or how he kept ‘secret’ documents that most likely had no justification for being secret in the first place, and probably ought to be published in full on a public website. I don’t think it’s possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended to incite a violent overthrow of the elected government, so I expect those charges to fail with a jury verdict of not guilty. But the last charge, that they’ve finally got around to, is important and provable: that as president at the time he deliberately pressured a state official to falsify election results for the purpose of fraudulently changing the outcome. When he’s found guilty of this, he ought to spend a few years in prison. That isn’t persecution, that’s justified prosecution of crimes that are justifiably illegal, regardless what you think of him otherwise, and regardless how despicable Biden is (who also ought to spend whatever years he has left in prison).
Posted by: Dalit | Aug 15 2023 20:38 utc | 89
Dalit #89:
Agree with you on the first three charges ... all BS ...
As for this one "as president at the time he deliberately pressured a state official to falsify election results for the purpose of fraudulently changing the outcome."
I'm not clear: what was the "pressure"? On that phone call, did he threaten? Did he offer some quid for the quo? What exactly did he do that meets your definition of pressured?
thx
Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 20:45 utc | 91
Since The Duran ends with him, Gavin Newsom:
Whatever the outcome of all this Trump/Biden cabal, it won´t change anything, since Newsom will then run against some De Santis or whatever clone, (after RFK has been disposed of).
Which would be the umpteenth replay of the known US imperial PR games.
Posted by: AG | Aug 15 2023 20:50 utc | 92
Besides being President of the US, old as dirt, and both likely as crooked as a country road, I discovered Trump and Biden have something else in common.
Each got 5 deferments from the Vietnam draft. 4 education deferments and one medical each.
And here I used to call Trump the King of Draft Dodgers. There is of course more to this history of US Presidents who avoided / dodged the draft as H.W. pulled stings to get his substance abusing son, G Dubya into the Air National Guard and then Jr. stopped showing up but he got a discharge anyway leaving him the clear.
Then there's Bill Clinton's record, and it's a doozie. He tried an end run to avoid the rumble in the jungle. He wasn't called slick willie for no reason.
"* Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969.
* Bill Clinton dishonors order to report and is not inducted into the military.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969 under authority of Col. E. Holmes. Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment. * Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) 'registrant who has failed to report ... remain liable for induction'.
* Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.
* Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a fugitive from justice.
* Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21, 1977 from Carter.
* Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-draft-pardon/
So 4 of the last 5 presidents were serial draft dodgers. Obama was born in '61 so he didn't qualify. Besides, he was from Kenya anyway, right??
Of course all of the above bore the title of Commander in Chief.
Made me think about those poor lads being press ganged over in Ukraine and when it's all over, who will pay all the related costs for Veterans benefits? The dead, the wounded, the infirm, the catatonic, the grossly disabled..the living costs of affected families?
While armchair warriors contemplate the tide of war, pros and cons of strategies, old warriors and their descendants contemplate how to survive.
Posted by: bubbles | Aug 15 2023 20:53 utc | 93
@ Ahenobarbus | Aug 15 2023 19:56 utc | 78
Although your statement is so flawed and self-incriminating that a rebuttal would seem supererogatory, I’ll just note the following:
1. The Q-word is used in one of two ways. (a) It denotes something somewhat different than the G- and L-words. That’s why it gets its own letter in such formulations as LGBTQ+. (b) It’s a term of abuse from outside the community that’s been reclaimed by certain of the members within the community: the N- word within the Black community is perfectly analogous. It’s pretty easy to see where you’re coming from.
2. As for LGBT(etc.) rights being “bullshit issues,” well, I guess they are to someone who’s never experienced discrimination — or someone who supports discrimination. Now I’ll grant that in the USA the matter of LGB rights has been pretty much settled, for the time being at least (I myself anticipate a nasty backlash), whereas determining the extent of T rights runs up against issues that are still intractable. But nothing is (or, better, should be) “bullshit” if human and civil rights are in question. Pleistocene-era Marxists refuse to recognize the legitimacy of any rights-based movement that cannot be expressed in terms of class; Marxists who accept life in the real world at least affect an interest in making common cause with other rights-based movements—which ought to be easy enough because the enemy is almost always the same: entrenched power structures with their divide-and-conquer games.
3. Right-handedness is “normal” too. Point?
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 20:57 utc | 94
Trump + RFK Jr. = President McCarthyPosted by: Cato the Uncensored | Aug 15 2023 20:25 utc | 88
Joseph or Kevin? Ni way you could mean Eugene.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 21:00 utc | 95
It is obvious at least to myself that the collapse of a system of governance or the fall of an empire is mostly not seen coming by those who live it because they are entirely too close and caught up in day to day happenings to take the time to step back and look at the big picture. This time is no different.
This abortion of an election is a prime example. We have on one hand a demented psychopath being challenged by a clownish narcissist and everybody is caught up in the day to day minutia to stop and ask how did we get here or what the consequences it will likely lead too. On one hand we have the most corrupt and dysfunctional family in the history of ever, totally protected by an utterly corrupted justice system and corporate media machine all the while attacking and persecuting their political opponent who's only care is his own ego, who's only care is being told how awesome he is while he eats cheeseburgers and plays golf, and everybody goes about their business as if this is normal.
My friends this is far from normal. It is and I say this unequivocally, the end of the democracy, the rule of law, the constitution, the bill of rights and everything else that we claimed made our country special. It's over and we head full steam into the perfect storm of war, social decay, economic collapse, and a woke totalitarianism so twisted and sick that it would make even George Orwell cringe in horror.
All the mechanisms for peaceful change are now closed forever. The people are broken, ignorant, brainwashed and utterly divided against themselves and totally incapable of defending themselves in any way. It's like out Titanic has hit the iceberg and is quickly sinking into the icy depths and half the people don't even notice and the other half can't do a damn thing to stop it.
It's truly breathtaking to behold in a morbid train wreck kind of way. I'm glad I am no longer a young man because I see nothing in our collective future but pain, suffering, chaos and death. There is no light at the end of this dark tunnel that I can see. No, none at all.
Posted by: JustAMaverick | Aug 15 2023 21:04 utc | 96
@ JustAMaverick | Aug 15 2023 21:04 utc | 96
If you can’t do a damn thing to stop it, you can always take up knitting ( <— little Dickens allusion, of course).
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 21:09 utc | 97
malenkov #94 "Marxists who accept life in the real world at least affect an interest in making common cause with other rights-based movements—which ought to be easy enough because the enemy is almost always the same: entrenched power structures with their divide-and-conquer games."
However, in this case, the power structures and power elite are completely and fully on board with the whole alphabet soup movement, to the point where the leading prophets of LGBTQ are corporate CEOs and their handpicked DEI officers. Ain't that great? The war is won, I guess.
Posted by: Caliman | Aug 15 2023 21:09 utc | 98
Posted by: Constantine | Aug 15 2023 18:53 utc | 65
This is the actual problem with the later day liberal cancer, which has little to do with classical liberalism and everything to do with a highly polished vesrsion of fascism by Edward Bernays prescriptions. The liberals have an utmost obligation to lie to themselves and engage in self-deception. Hence the vomit-inducing levels of hypocrisy.
They will champion totalitarian practices, engage in effectively racist policies, destroy entire communities domestically and beyond, but all of it must absolutely be framed as a struggle for progress and "rules-based order". This is not a trivial issue and not just necessary to deceive others (although the latter use is obvious), but of paramount importance, fist and foremost to themselves.
===================================================
Well said.
Though labels such as liberal and conservative should be retired. It's more about who is brainwashed and who is not.
Those who are not must drop old labels and allegiances and somehow join together to craft a no-nonsense common sense counter-narrative displacing the currently ensconced quasi-fascist clown shows.
@ Caliman | Aug 15 2023 21:09 utc | 98
I’ve always regretted (and said so on this site) that the gay(etc.) rights movement deteriorated/was co-opted into a marketing demographic. And quite frankly, I personally don’t appreciate being used by corporate imperialists as a cudgel with which to beat the world’s poor, even if they punish homosexual acts. Even more to the point, using gay rights as a cudgel only provikes a backlash—which, given the natural progression of capitalism into fascism, is probably the desired result at home anyway. But when a Marxist tells me that my rights or desire therefor are “bullshit”, he (it is usually he) shouldn’t be surprised if I don’t join his (minuscule splinter) party.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 15 2023 21:18 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
thanks b... interesting suggestion at the bottom... that might tip the scale... at present it is intel agencies 1 - all others 0..
Posted by: james | Aug 15 2023 15:54 utc | 1