Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Back to Main
July 22, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-174
Comments
simplicius from yesterday.. i tend to see it the same as simplicius on the topic of strelkov..
Strelkov’s Vatic Fantasy Fulfilled as He’s Taken Into Custody
Posted by: james | Jul 22 2023 19:01 utc | 1
Indian Punchline assesses a persistent deadlock in the Black Sea:
In strategic terms, without control over Odessa, NATO cannot have force projection in the Black Sea region or hope to resurrect Ukraine as an anti-Russia outpost. Nor can NATO advance toward the Transcaucasus and the Caspian (bordering Iran) and Central Asia without dominating the Black Sea region.
And for the same reasons, Russia cannot afford to cede the Black Sea region to the NATO, either. Odessa is a vital link in any land bridge along the Black Sea coast connecting the Russian hinterland with its garrison in Transnistria, Moldova (which the US is eyeing as a potential NATO member.) In fact, Crimea’s security will be endangered if hostile forces establish themselves in Odessa. (The attack on the Kerch Bridge in October 2022 was staged from Odessa.)
https://www.indianpunchline.com/storm-clouds-gathering-in-the-black-sea/
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jul 22 2023 19:12 utc | 2
Don’t know if was already posted.
“Nord Stream 1-Blast: It Was a Mini Nuke!”
July 2, 2023
[A report by Attorney at Law Viviane Fischer, photo Wigwam nuclear test of the USA, 1955.
Swiss physicist Dr. Hans-Benjamin Braun has meticulously analyzed the Nord Stream 1 explosion. His finding, presented to the Corona Investigative Committee on June 30, 2023: the blast was made using a thermonuclear (fusion) mini-nuke with the greatest possible shockwave impact on Russia’s Kaliningrad. Like the investigative journalist and Pulizer Prize winner Seymour Hersch, Dr. Braun suspects the USA behind the attack. Among the authorities, politicians, journalists and scientists whom he has informed of the results of his analyses since December 2022, there is one thing above all: radio silence.]
https://2020news.de/en/nord-stream-1-blast-it-was-a-mini-nuke/
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 22 2023 19:28 utc | 3
I have just watched Garland Nixon’s brilliant forensic analysis of the Hunter Biden/Joe Biden monumental corruption where Ukraine is concerned. It is absolutely a must watch. It left me shocked, disgusted and realising that the President of the USA, FBI Agents, Officers of the DOJ, CIA agents and politicians such as Mitt Romney immediately be arrested and remanded in custody. The scale of the corruption is off the charts.
I believe the scandal is just the tip of the Iceberg. The FBI DOJ an other USA Institutions covered up information from the Laptop, evidence visual and audio from a Senior Executive Board Member of Burisma and the shocking way the FBI and CIA covered all this up with the help of Social Media including Twitter before Musk’s day, how they fabricated documents etc.
What is in absolutely no doubt whatsoever though, is that Biden’s increasing escalation in Ukraine and increasing delusional levels of funding for them is completely, thoroughly and comprehensively linked to the corruption, mafia like corruption in fact, which feeds Biden’s obsession with his son and Ukraine. It covers up the most substantial, unequivocal, damning levels of corruption and abuse of power Biden perpetrated. The Broadcast is shocking. How USA Politicians have not demanded his immediate resignation and arrest is stunning whilst the now exposed totally corrupt FBI DOJ and CIA attempt to charge Trump with ridiculous charges. They should be focussing on the real criminal corruption, and I might add, Organised Crime and Racketeering crimes, that Biden presides over. I hope the good citizens of the USA get out on the streets and demand the arrest and remand into custody of these utterly corrupt, immoral, evil people.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jul 22 2023 19:30 utc | 4
“The scale of the corruption is off the charts.”
Been that way for some time now.
Posted by: exile | Jul 22 2023 19:38 utc | 5
Link to Garland Nixon recommended by Jo @ 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw5rzezyeYE
Posted by: suzan | Jul 22 2023 20:23 utc | 7
MUST HEAR interview by John Helmer of Col Jacques Baud:
https://tntradiolive.podbean.com/e/colonel-jacques-baud-on-war-of-the-worlds-22-july-2023/
Posted by: John Gilberts | Jul 22 2023 20:27 utc | 8
Jo Dominich | Jul 22 2023 19:30 utc | 4
I share your anger, the depth of the corruption along with the consequences that have stemmed from it are amazing and tragic to behold. But I am too much the cynic to believe anything will be done about it. Our country is just too far gone…
Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jul 22 2023 20:35 utc | 9
The US government corruption is organized crime. The corporate media help the charade, partnered with our corporate overlords (Energy, banking, communications, big tech & arms industry) who have special features of governance, such as low wages, generational poverty, a plead guilty justice & prison systems, death by addiction, wage slavery, student debt, bankruptcy by medical costs, taxes and ecocide. Freedom is lost with mass surveillance and predictive algorithms that put each and everyone of us in special box. The full fascist autocracy that’s been feared by the public in the USA is alive and well because of effective propaganda. The system is publicly endorsed which allows Uncle Sam who still thinks he can manufacture consent for war long after the US treasure has been spent. Debt is not money, it is servitude to the lender. The nations indebted now $30Trillion USD in public debt, amortized over 300 years without any increase, with a less than 1% compound interest and maybe it can get paid off in 300 years? It is NOT going to happen, bankruptcy is not an option for the western banking oligarchs despite the country being politically and morally bankrupt, it’s the citizen (tax payers) who are empty bag holders and the banks win again! It matters not that a systemic failure is baked into the capitalist system, the jolly bankers never lose. What gives me hope is block chain currency as a workable transition from bankrupt fiat currencies and banking system.
Posted by: Bill Miner | Jul 22 2023 20:45 utc | 10
Jo Dominich@4
It ought to be remembered that almost all of the facts about the Bidens’ corrupt dealing in Ukraine were public knowledge before he was nominated and elected.
I recall, at the time, expressing no doubt (here) that he stood no chance of winning either the nomination or the election because he was so obviously, and openly corrupted.
I was absolutely mistaken. As HL Mencken put it: “Nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people.” Or the venality of the media.
The recent House Committee hearings featuring RFK Jr. made it quite clear why Biden won the nomination so handily- his personal corruption strikes his fellow Democrats as a badge of honour. It is their ambition to be able to make so much money for so little work. Isn’t that what public office is all about?
Posted by: bevin | Jul 22 2023 20:50 utc | 11
Posted by: bevin | Jul 22 2023 20:50 utc | 11
Perhaps the little matter of ballots replacing votes, month long harvesting windows instead of single day voting, lax ID requirements and multi-billionaires pouring money into voting districts, to ‘fortify’ the results had something to do with it. Oh, and a weaponised DOJ with complicit press and social media going to bat for Biden also may possibly have affected the result.
Posted by: Milites | Jul 22 2023 20:59 utc | 12
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jul 22 2023 19:30
Even worse, you’re getting at least 4 more years of him. There will be a choreographed show called an “election”, but the RC, your real leaders, will assure he’s installed and the war marches on.
Democracy in the US, even the useless choice of one of the two faces of the RC, every 4 years, is long since dead.
Wage slaves can organize a parallel government of their own to liberate themselves from finance capital and it’s wars or sit back for a second helping of Biden and the gang.
And if by some miracle the intense medical intervention that keeps this filthy corpse walking the earth fails, they’ll find a newer, prettier, more diverse tool to replace him with.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 22 2023 21:10 utc | 13
But I am too much the cynic to believe anything will be done about it. Our country is just too far gone…
Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jul 22 2023 20:35 utc | 9
Read a little history, it will cheer you up. Something will be done about it sooner or later. Millions cannot go on living this way and soon they’ll be ready to die to change it.
The question is really the leadership, perspective and organization of whatever that something is. Riots in the cities in 2020 didn’t change shit, nor did J6.
That was by design. In both cases the leadership came not from the people but again from agencies of the democrat or republican parties.
Whatever that future something is, it’s foundational principal requires total independence from the ruling class. It’s got to be based on the wage slaves virulent hatred of the ruling class and their socioeconomic system. It has to have basic class consciousness to succeed.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 22 2023 21:30 utc | 14
Posted by: Bill Miner | Jul 22 2023 20:45 utc | 10
The US government corruption is organized crime…..The system is publicly endorsed which allows Uncle Sam who still thinks he can manufacture consent for war long after the US treasure has been spent.
=============================================================
I think ‘the US’ (whatever it actually is now) is long past ‘manufacturing consent’ and rather into simply ensuring, by cognitively dissonanting their hapless, divided populations, that there is no organized resistance.
Of course you could argue that lack of resistance constitutes tacit consent at which point I shall be obliged to concede!
@ Aleph_Null | Jul 22 2023 19:12 utc | 2
Thanks for bringing this stuff up.
Indians are right, and I agree with their view on the Black Sea.
It is not really a new thing, as that was written in old battle plans of NATO being updated in 80’s. There they had a wet dream of combined NATO forces conquering Crimea from Türkiye in a massive areal assault, D-Daying on Odesa and bombing all the Soviet ports on the Eastern coast.
It was a military fairytale, anyhow.
Apart from geopolitical this and that of today, NATO tried to corrupt, in a most corrupted country ever, those political powers who would provide them with a naval base on Crimea. Failing that, they hired Ukrainians to conquer Crimea for them, giving them not that much of any good weaponry to start with, in comparison to RF.
Now a few years later, NATO it reminds me more and more of a scene in the Fifth Element movie, where after alien mercenaries fail to do the task for the main villain, he picks the super gun and says: “When you want things done, better do those yourself.” And then gets blown by some super bomb.
So, in Europe the fight is for the Black Sea, mainly. Donbass, black soil and such is just a sideshow. In Syria, RF will up the ante soon and kick US there in the teeth.
But, RF have been ‘nice’ so far, and will get nastier – this way they can balance between two battle spaces, and escalate and de-escalate in European or Syrian conflict, as it is needed. Let us see how the USA can sustain this.
Bringing gen. Petrov from Zaporizhnia to Syria, Vagners to Belorussia, while creating total confusion is a major series of a ninja moves.
So far, I think, RF is the only party to a conflict that actually knows its moves, and Indian generals understand this well, as they shared some military planning, intel and operations stuff with Soviets ever since good old Socialist times.
Always respect pyjamas.
Posted by: whirlX | Jul 22 2023 21:48 utc | 16
@ John Gilberts 8
MUST HEAR interview by John Helmer of Col Jacques Baud:
“>https://tntradiolive.podbean.com/e/colonel-jacques-baud-on-war-of-the-worlds-22-july-2023/
WHAT makes this a “must read”??? Just putting that claim out there is useless.
The page is annoying because:
1. there is no way to fast-forward,
2. Several minutes into it, there is nothing that most barflies already know, and
3. there is no control over audio volume.
The narrator says it’s a question whether “the battle for Odessa” may have already begun.
That is click-bait fantasy, obviously not grounded in the facts.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Jul 22 2023 22:05 utc | 18
Military summary:
-AFU bombed journalists in the village west of Piyatikhatki with cluster munitions, one died and several injured
-AFU attack with armored vehicles was defeated in the field west of Robotino with AT weapons and drones
-Helicopters also destroyed AFU AFVs near Levadne (maybe they brought them close to the front anticipating to attack)
-AFU attack toward Staramayorske defeated
-some kind of regrouping in Maryinka-Krasnogorovka on both sides
-Klescheevka may be contested
-RU problems continue in Soledar-Yakovlivka-Berestove area
-positional fighting in Serebryanka forest continue
-RU has expanded their control between Kupyansk-Lyman near Karzamynivka into the three forests, AFU did not expect this or they don’t have possibility to counter it
-Lyman Pershyi-Kupyansk RU slowly pushes through the forest toward Kupyansk vicinity
-RU manage to destroy several AFVs and ammo depots on the Kharkov-Belgorod border line with drones and bombing
-AFU managed to hit two RU ammo depots in Crimea
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 22 2023 22:18 utc | 19
It matters not that a systemic failure is baked into the capitalist system, the jolly bankers never lose.
What gives me hope is block chain currency as a workable transition from bankrupt fiat currencies and banking system.
Posted by: Bill Miner | Jul 22 2023 20:45 utc | 10
BS. We have a governmentalist system. A capitalist system would practically be the opposite. And coporations would not be a legal ‘person’ under capitalism.
And block chain currency security is a fools errand.
Posted by: Drapetomaniac | Jul 22 2023 22:35 utc | 20
Jo Dominich | Jul 22 2023 19:30 utc | 4
I share your anger, the depth of the corruption along with the consequences that have stemmed from it are amazing and tragic to behold. But I am too much the cynic to believe anything will be done about it. Our country is just too far gone…
Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jul 22 2023 20:35 utc | 9
It is understandable how you feel and thousands, maybe millions feel the same way I think. And the more dynamic of them call for insurrection, riot, civil war as a remedy.
But I think they are all wrong and they/you’re all wrong in the beginning when claiming ‘the country is too far gone’.
For I believe the root cause of it all is the lack of understanding of the people of their political social obligations in a democracy.
i.e. they have this wonderful system of governance in their hands: representative democracy – but they NEVER use it.
And if you suggest they should use it the most common response you get will be ‘It won’t do any good’.
By which they mean if they vote out one man things overall will not change.
They mean if they go to that man and ask for change nothing will change.
They mean if they petition the govt. nothing will change.
Which is all true and all beside the point. An immature and nonsense way of looking at things.
It is not supposed to be a system that responds nation wide to the voting out of one man. Nor asking him to do something. Nor one petition to the central govt.
Not in the first place. Not in theory. Not by design. And certainly not when the machinery has not been used since inception as is the case.
I’ve argued this many times. I won’t do it again. It’s not for me to point to it and then try to convince. Hopeless. I’ve pointed to it. If you can’t see it when you sit and have a think for a while you’ll never be convinced by me.
I’m just saying: the problem is the people. They are not participating. No one taught them how. They are disinclined anyway. No one asks them to and no one expects them to.
The nominal attitude all over the west is that a bunch of casually elected scoundrels left to their own devices with the machinery of total power in their hands will somehow devote themselves to helping the common man on the one hand and suddenly develop the intellectual acumen to be able to devise the best ways of doing so on the other.
I ask you… ?
Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 22 2023 22:51 utc | 21
I would echo Jo @4 in recommending watching Garland Nixon’s evidence presentation and righteous takedown of the corruption of Americans in Ukraine.
Waving hands in blasé dismissal “We knew all that before” doesn’t cut it. We didn’t know what the CEO of Burisma and the chief prosecutor knew.
Garland recommends the following video also, and I concur. Both are worthy of attention. Both will enlighten even those who have been following events for the last 9 years.
Aaron Mate interviews a Ukrainian who was intimately involved in the 2014 coup and in the post coup government of Ukraine.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/07/13/bidens-corruption-led-to-ukraines-destruction-fmr-kiev-diplomat/
Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 22 2023 23:27 utc | 22
AFU bombed journalists in the village west of Piyatikhatki with cluster munitions, one died and several injured.
Posted by: unimperator | Jul 22 2023 22:18 utc
When I turn on my computer, it pushes “news” on me. They told me today that Russia bombed journalists with cluster bombs, which they helpfully pointed out was a war crime.
I’m sure they will add that to the ICC indictment already pending.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 22 2023 23:37 utc | 23
“…the problem is the people. They are not participating. No one taught them how. They are disinclined anyway. No one asks them to and no one expects them to.” arthur brogard@20
No need to worry about the people: thr ruling class is determined to make us revolt. All life’s comforts are being removed as every form of rent goes up and every ounce of profit squeezed out of consumers, workers, renters, riders, drivers, parents and taxpayers…
Walk down the aisles of a supermarket- nobody is more amazed than the dairy farmers around here that butter is $8.99 a pound and hamburger buns $1.75 apiece.
All revolutions are forced on the people by the greed, callousness and arrogance of the ruling class. And telling them that the people are incapable of doing anything to defend themselves just encourages them to be even greedier, more arrogant and self destructive.
Posted by: bevin | Jul 22 2023 23:37 utc | 24
NATO bringing the heat, drone directed JADAM strikes on Russian HQs, now a double tap in Crimea, 2nd ammo dump, and a fuel depot…..wonder what King Charles had for supper….. only the Shadow knows.
Cheers M
Of course if they can reach Crimea, what can’t they hit? Moscow St Petersburg…only a matter of time.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 22 2023 23:40 utc | 25
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.freepik.com%2Ffree-vector%2Frealistic-empty-transparent-ballot-box_1284-17263.jpg%3Fw%3D2000&tbnid=BQ-eeyWO0OVvHM&vet=12ahUKEwiKyoG4vqOAAxVyE94AHfAXAbcQMygAegUIARCfAw..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freepik.com%2Ffree-vector%2Frealistic-empty-transparent-ballot-box_4270023.htm&docid=us1DjIsKRyI0aM&w=2000&h=2000&q=transparent%20ballot%20box&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwiKyoG4vqOAAxVyE94AHfAXAbcQMygAegUIARCfAw
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdSFfh3qFmQba96zaj1MoJWdLj4khI0UIkamt7GK9ftQ&s
“…Millions cannot go on living this way and soon they’ll be ready to die to change it….”
The WEF stands ready to assist you in this regard.
“…I’m just saying: the problem is the people. They are not participating….”
Have you critically examined most of the people around you, if you live in the West? Whatever they do for a job or career, when you begin to discuss geo-politics and economics, you quickly find that at least 80% have no idea, and they don’t care to know about what they don’t have any idea about. Being propagandized all their life, and likely being uninformed MSM watchers, the group-think will be fine with them, since these things are all peripheral issues for them anyway.
If they could even locate Ukraine on a map in the first place.
“…What gives me hope is block chain currency…”
Yah, me too…wait, I’m getting a text message: “Citizen, we have confirmed with AI video analysis that you have spent some of your monthly allowance of Government CBDC on un-approved items, in a flagrant Breach of Freedom and Democracy. For your own protection, your remaining wallet balance and all movement privileges havr been cancelled, effective 24 hours ago. To restore these priviliges, on a probationary basis, you must attend a mandatory 30-day neural correction course, and be re-certified as mentally competent, by your local Approved AI Board of Examiners, and relevant local Public AI Security Officials. Please report to your local Public Security and Inclusivity Station immediately.”
Posted by: FUBAR11111 | Jul 23 2023 0:14 utc | 29
In case anybody is curious FUBAR111 @28 is responding to Bill Miner #10, Ahenobarbus @14 and arthur brogard @20. Carry on.
Posted by: dh | Jul 23 2023 0:41 utc | 30
Chris Hedges: There Are Very Few Good Films About War. “20 Days in Mariupol” is an Exception
The film focuses exclusively on Russian atrocities. It ignores those committed by Ukrainians. I covered enough wars to know there were some. The neo-Nazi Azov Regiment, and other fascist-inspired militias, played a major role in the fighting in Mariupol. These militias have been accused of terrorizing and executing ethnic Russians and those suspected of sympathizing or working with separatists.
…
The film does a masterful job of communicating the randomness of death, the indiscriminate fury of modern weapons and the helplessness of those caught in war’s blood-soaked embrace. It isn’t war. But it comes as close as you can get.
The destruction of the maternity hospital was not staged. Ukraine routinely has used such places for artillery, so unfortunately it became a target. War is hell.
Posted by: upstater | Jul 23 2023 0:49 utc | 31
Swiss physicist Dr. Hans-Benjamin Braun has meticulously analyzed the Nord Stream 1 explosion. His finding, presented to the Corona Investigative Committee on June 30, 2023: the blast was made using a thermonuclear (fusion) mini-nuke with the greatest possible shockwave impact on Russia’s Kaliningrad. Like the investigative journalist and Pulizer Prize winner Seymour Hersch, Dr. Braun suspects the USA behind the attack. Among the authorities, politicians, journalists and scientists whom he has informed of the results of his analyses since December 2022, there is one thing above all: radio silence.]
https://2020news.de/en/nord-stream-1-blast-it-was-a-mini-nuke/
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 22 2023 19:28 utc | 3
No, it wasn’t, it is not the right type of target and the damage does not fit. It was three pipes with holes in them, separated some distance from each other, and it was relatively small holes in each of them. Does that look like a single nuke?
The Khakhovka dam, on the other hand, was quite possibly done with a SADM (Special Atomic Demolition Munition — these are the small nukes designed to be carried in a backpack or a suitcase). Big holes in dams that size can not be made with surface MLRS strikes, but UK/US special ops teams attaching a ~0.02-Kt SADM to the dam wall would indeed do the job (that’s what they were designed for originally). That no surveillance cam footage was released by the Russians even though all the previous strikes were filmed supports that idea — if they released the video, it would presumably show what exactly happened (i.e. a single big underwater explosion), and that would mean they would have to respond properly. Which, for whatever reason (why has the Channel Tunnel not been collapsed yet by a big-truck VBIED?) they don’t want to do. At least yet.
There were also several very big explosions in Ukraine that were Russian strikes of ammo depots and other stuff that were so larger, so high in the atmosphere, and so bright and hot that there is strong suspicion they were small nukes. But we will not know for sure any time soon.
Posted by: shаdowbanned | Jul 23 2023 1:22 utc | 32
US elections anything belong on the other thread. Putin knows that the militarily losing the Tet offensive was for influencing the US Elections. Can the US vote itself out of its mess? Other thread, please. I am exhausted on that topic.
Turning Odessa into a NATO base was never an acceptable option for the Russians. They have a way to go to get there. They also have a history of being quite persistent.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 23 2023 1:29 utc | 33
Acco Hengst | Jul 23 2023 1:29 utc | 32–
The transcript of Putin’s remarks made yesterday is very interesting reading. The translated text can be read here.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 23 2023 1:44 utc | 33
Thankyou Karlofi
Very, very, very interesting
Posted by: watcher | Jul 23 2023 2:00 utc | 35
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jul 22 2023 19:12 utc | 2
I was thinking about that essay this morning, after I tracked an RT lead to Blinken’s fireside chat at the Aspen Security Forum with by Andrea Mitchell Greenspan (A/V, 47 min run time). Blinken projects his view of of RF’s diabolical exit from the “grain deal” (@ 10:29 – 14:14). Then, of all people on the planet that I’d hoped was drooling in a nursing home somewhere, Jane Harman, “Gang of 4” alum, pops up @ 45:50 asking Blinken to splain how Erdogan’s Black Sea “agenda” will get him into the EU and NATO good graces.
Their exchange is grotesque and indicative of the Aspen Security Forum 2023 4-day hot tub programming. The guest list is as terrifying as their topical concerns and their MSM access pass attendants combined. After a stroll through the Munich Security Conference 2023, I’d imagined that I was endured to NATO raving. I am not. How could I be? This generation of psychos reproducing itself with IVF and youth “leadership” conferences.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 23 2023 2:16 utc | 36
on the upside, Afshin Rattansi shares 28 min. with Col. Lawrence Wilkerson who puts the kibosh on NATO’s thermonuclear war fantasy.
And as for Erdoğan, he’s got more options up his sleeve than the that CFR tool Brad Setser has stuffed in Sy Hersh’s Barcalounger® borrowed from the IMF.
Erdoğan urges West to address Russia’s expectations over grain deal
This is how the jungle favor bank works.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 23 2023 2:36 utc | 37
I’m starting to wonder about my reading comprehension. I thought this thread was supposed to be for comments directly related to NATO’s proxy war against Russia. But now I get it. This is really a special thread for all things Hunter Biden.
Posted by: William Verick | Jul 23 2023 3:04 utc | 38
Re: Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 23 2023 1:44 utc | 33
Thanks Karlof1. I’d read other articles but none contained this part of translation:
“So, by the way, did their ideological predecessors, the Petliurists, who in 1920 concluded the so-called secret conventions with Poland, “…wow… was always told a different story about Galicia.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Jul 23 2023 3:15 utc | 39
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 23 2023 1:44 utc | 33
Many thanks, karlof1, and for your previous excellent writing while in hospital. Do take good care in your convalescence; it is good to hear that your surgery is accomplished and that it was done well.
This is a very important speech by Putin – I always marvel at his ability to do so, and yet I remember a time in the US when I actually enjoyed listening to politicians here draw out an argument and answer questions as Putin has done.
We have had a long, long drought in the US. May it soon be over.
Posted by: juliania | Jul 23 2023 3:39 utc | 40
William Verick @ 38. VP now POTUS Joe Biden, Burisma, the biolabs, Hunter Biden are relevant Ukraine proxy war
Posted by: Willow | Jul 23 2023 4:02 utc | 41
Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 22 2023 22:51 utc | 20
Blah blah blah…
I ask you… ?’
Your comment is erroneous. Did you not see what ‘they’ did to people who peacefully protested on Jan 6th. Do you not understand that ‘they’ are weaponizing the system to squash any dissent? Most Americans do not want war with Russia. It is all a lie, compliments of MIC, Specisl interests, Biden crime family, Soros’s Obama and companions. Ukraine war would not even exist but for this.
Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Jul 23 2023 4:28 utc | 42
in response to typical victim blaming, that can scarcely pass for politically sophisticated analysis-
It is all a lie, compliments of MIC, Specisl interests, Biden crime family, Soros’s Obama and companions. Ukraine war would not even exist but for this.
Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Jul 23 2023 4:28 utc | 41
thank you for responding. are those American voter blaming posts for real, or is it a necessary campaign?
Posted by: Not Ewe | Jul 23 2023 4:52 utc | 43
Posted by: William Verick | Jul 23 2023 3:04 utc | 37
If you can separate anything Biden from the current situation in Ukraine, and successfully convince other posters, then I’d email your c.v. to the DNC. Because they have the MSM and weaponised institutions doing the same thing 24/7 and it’s still not working.
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/HHP_June2023_KeyResults.pdf (Page 46)
Posted by: Milites | Jul 23 2023 7:35 utc | 44
Posted by: shаdowbanned | Jul 23 2023 1:22 utc | 31
All of these nuke-variant conjectures fall flat on lack of isotopic residue. Regarding Kakhovka HPP, the site and anything exposed to the flood would retain a distinctive isotopic signature for a considerable length of time. The concentrations might be vanishingly small and require high end mass-spec to resolve but it would be there. Anything preserved close to point of claimed detonation could be analysed by equipment readily available on the internet.
If Kakhovka HPP was breached with an explosive, it was mostly likely a mini-sub carrying a large to very large conventional explosive – just like the latest Kerch bridge attack, so don’t anyone act all surprised – targeting the already weakened gates.
Agreed that the lack of video evidence is suspicious and is consistent with the idea of it having been suppressed on the grounds that public reaction would have demanded a firmer response. Sitting around while UA opened the upstream gates and filled Kakhovka dam to bursting point before then demolishing it was not a good look either but there are plenty of agreeable-sounding platitudes to chose from.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 23 2023 8:23 utc | 45
We hear about so many casualties in Ukro army. But how is it possible that there is no effect of this on Ukro society. How is it possible that Ukro soldiers are just not running away?
Posted by: Simplex | Jul 23 2023 8:27 utc | 46
The M1 Abrams has never been used in a real war, so its battle performance is unverified. For the 32 years from 1991 to today, the Abrams job has been to shoot at tribesmen, wedding parties, and tin-pot armies in the Middle East. The British Challenger, often seen grazing peacefully on Salisbury Plain, has a similar record.
Posted by: jensen | Jul 23 2023 8:31 utc | 48
How is it possible that Ukro soldiers are just not running away?
Posted by: Simplex | Jul 23 2023 8:27 utc | 45
Propaganda. We have come far using the cornerstones of Goebbels. At his defense in Nurnberg, he said something in the sense of “you can always convince people to go to war, am I the guilty party for talking or the people for accepting?”
This is also how modern western pols see the issue with war propaganda. Its not their fault. Being honest will gather you points initially but be your downfall later.
The next step in human development will come when we find ways to legally curtail propaganda and marketing.
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 23 2023 9:15 utc | 49
The main thing from the new briefing of the Russian Defense Ministry:
— The Yug group repelled two enemy attacks in the Zaporozhye direction in the area of the settlement of Workino;
— The group “South” repelled the attack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of Novomikhailovka in the DPR;
— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation destroyed objects in the area of Odessa, where terrorist acts against the Russian Federation were being prepared with the use of unmanned boats;
— There were foreign mercenaries at the affected facilities near Odessa, where terrorist attacks against the Russian Federation were being prepared;
— Russian troops destroyed more than 160 Ukrainian military and 7 Leopard tanks in the South Donets and Zaporozhye directions;
— Russian troops hit three control points of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Zaporozhye region, the LPR and the DPR, as well as a fuel depot in the Zaporozhye region;
— The Russian Aerospace Forces shot down a Ukrainian Su-25 near Verolyubovka in the DPR, air defense intercepted a HIMARS MLRS projectile and a Storm Shadow cruise missile;
— Russian troops repelled six APU attacks in the Krasnolimansk direction;
— Russian troops stopped the activities of a group of Ukrainian saboteurs near the village of Nevskoye in the LPR;
— The losses of the APU in the Krasnolimansk direction exceeded 130 people per day;
— Russian troops repelled 14 APU attacks in the Donetsk direction during the day, enemy losses amounted to up to 370 servicemen;
Posted by: Rubal | Jul 23 2023 9:17 utc | 50
And one more thing: the whole philosophy of modern progressive liberalism – the ideology we are seeing fueling this war – is the relativization of truth for the purposes of equity. Noble you may say, the next level of humanism, but it turns out to be just a ruse to bound groups and get votes from them. As it has no intrinsic capability to actually solve problems for these groups – because post-truth and thus ineffective – it just destroys the inner cities where these groups live.
The failure of post-truth liberalism is still not widely recognized, but we are getting there. The problem is that there is no actual opposition to this except for conservative traditionalists which are also ineffective because they live in the past. But we are slowly getting there.
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 23 2023 9:24 utc | 51
……. How is it possible that Ukro soldiers are just not running away? Posted by: Simplex | Jul 23 2023 8:27 utc | 45………
Guess you haven‘t seen the many videos of Kiev‘s press gangs at work.
Posted by: Exile | Jul 23 2023 9:54 utc | 52
How is it possible that Ukro soldiers are just not running away?
Posted by: Simplex | Jul 23 2023 8:27 utc | 45
Combatants keep going for a long time despite their side losing the war
The Confederacy kept going well into 1865, fighting desperately outside Richmond, Virginia
The Germans fought all the way to Berlin and the Japanese kept going until Hiroshima and even afterwards
The Soviets who eventually won kept going in 1941 and 1942 despite horrific losses
As somebody said earlier propaganda works particularly when aligned with the hopes and fears of the population, who believe the good news and discount the bad news.
The home front keeps hoping for miracle weapons , foreign intervention or divine winds
Even in an open society it is easy to live in a parallel universe
Collapses in wars between peer forces do happen e.g. France in 1940 but are rare
Posted by: Aslangeo | Jul 23 2023 10:03 utc | 53
“At his defense in Nurnberg,”
Goebbles committed suicide in Berlin. April 30, 1945. His philosophy of propaganda lives on in the likes of the alphabet soup media.
Posted by: T.D. | Jul 23 2023 10:13 utc | 54
upstater | Jul 23 2023 0:49 utc | 30
“20 Days in Mariupol”
I spent sometime arguing with the TalkingPointsMemo guys about the hospital bombing when it happened. The guys who made the movie are friends of one of their staff members.
They were pretty adamant that there was no artillery at the hospital. It seems likely that it was a mistake by the Russians. The shell crater in the ‘main’ photo was on dirt (not the building); nothing ever surfaced showing military use, unlike another event around the same time (the Theater building); the Patrick Lancaster videos I’ve watch show how random artillery can be.
For me, it shows the fundamental problem that the RU armed forces have. If they go fast, it looks like Mariupol and everything afterwards is an occupation. (They escape this in Mariupol by virtue of City’s demographics). If they go slow, it looks like this last three months and many more people die over time and away from the camera.
Ultimately, this film is likely another tragedy. Using a real event for propaganda purposes is more effective than using a fake event. It will help keep the fighting going.
Posted by: je | Jul 23 2023 10:30 utc | 55
Posted by: Simplex | Jul 23 2023 8:27 utc | 45
>How is it possible that Ukro soldiers are just not running away?
Run towards the Russians? They would have to cross mine fields plus convince the Russians they are really surrendering versus faking. I doubt their fellow frontline infantry would shoot them. Blocking troops are not on the frontline. Probably their fellow infantry would just watch the guy run, then shake their heads when he blows up on a mine.
Run towards Ukraine? Blocking troops plus 12 years in prison for desertion plus shame.
Most importantly, guys inclined to run (and not connected to the elite and thus exempt from frontline duty) mostly already ran, either to Western Europe or Russia. Ordinary guys who remain in Ukraine are resigned to their dismal fate, like pigs being fattened for slaughter. Pigs are very intelligent animals. They know what’s coming. But what can they do? No point thinking about the future. Que será, será.
Posted by: Revelo | Jul 23 2023 10:32 utc | 56
48. “Propaganda. We have come far using the cornerstones of Goebbels. ”
To be precise Goebbels developed his propaganda techniques from Edward Bernays (nephew of Sigmund Freud)who employed his theories in 1920’s marketing commercial properties.
His most famous scheme was for Victory cigarettes which promoted smoking for women which was a successful campaign.
This infamous father of modern propaganda appeared on the David Letterman show in 1984-you can google it.
Edward Bernays on David Letterman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4AulOuCPI
“20 Days in Mariupol”
I spent sometime arguing with the TalkingPointsMemo guys about the hospital bombing when it happened. The guys who made the movie are friends of one of their staff members.
They were pretty adamant that there was no artillery at the hospital. It seems likely that it was a mistake by the Russians.
Posted by: je | Jul 23 2023 10:30 utc | 54
—
Igor said that in the last days of February, people in uniform came to the maternity hospital where his mother works. He does not know whether they were fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the nationalist battalion “Azov” ( banned in the Russian Federation ). The military knocked down all the locks, dispersed the staff of the maternity hospital, and set up firing points in the building in order, as they explained to the doctors, to prepare the “fortress of Mariupol” for defense. The reaction of the military to objections is standard: blows with rifle butts, shooting into the air.
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 23 2023 10:54 utc | 59
Whatever that future something is, it’s foundational principal requires total independence from the ruling class. It’s got to be based on the wage slaves virulent hatred of the ruling class and their socioeconomic system. It has to have basic class consciousness to succeed.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 22 2023 21:30 utc | 14
Class consciousness on any meaningful level is long gone. The potential for masses to collectively agree on some kind of intelligent thought, much less act on it, was wiped out with drugs (both the fucking SSRI/statin and the street kind, and the coffee/alcohol kind of drugs), fluorine, glyphosate, GMO shit, hormones (in drugs, food, water, etc), and now the injections. Even just covid, though it was mostly a flop, seems to take away a bit of a person’s ability to concentrate and think clearly.
Consider also at least a century worth of pure negative breeding, where thugs, bullies, drug dealers, psychopaths, criminals and sleazebags are aggressively pushed by media as the ideal sexy male archetype that all beautiful women should throw themselves at. And on the other end of the female spectrum, artificial insemination and free child support (or an endless stream of desperate lonely men) for even the most unspeakably ugly and inhumane women. Fat disfigured couples wallowing in alcohol and filth are far more likely to have children, and lots of them, than healthy, wise, hard-working people in current society.
I remember that in my childhood (and that’s not that long ago, I’m half the age of some people here), people were vital and actually did things. Now the same people, and their children and grandchildren, are visibly physically and emotionally falling apart. One relative had to go to emergency care because some bloody tumor swelled up on her finger out of nowhere in half a day, and she’s getting rashes and breakouts in her 30’s like some old hag. (She did tell everyone ahead of time that the vaccine will NEVER again be discussed, so all good).
As for virulent hatred, little chance. The brainwashed population only virulently hate Russia/China, plus men of course if they’re feminists. And they do hate anyone who tries to tell them how to live, what to eat, etc. They love jews (without knowing why, but friendships will end if you ask) and the government. The “alternative” thinkers hate vegetarians, muslims, “greens” (not the party, but people who want to protect nature, because clearly it’s the most evil thing to want to protect nature), anyone who tells them they shouldn’t buy a new car every three years, and usually China too. Most of them will give a sarcastic laugh or get personally offended if you mention the possibility of government collusion and corruption, jews, vaccine harm, the risks of too much electromagnetic radiation, etc. because that’s obviously “conspiracy theory” and only slightly less bad than being a nature lover.
At any sign of uprising, most people would far more likely rat out their neighbours/relatives/children to the government than join.
This is north europe though. I have more hope for the south. And the actual world apart from the west is fine.
Posted by: Mike | Jul 23 2023 10:57 utc | 60
Fat disfigured couples wallowing in alcohol and filth are far more likely to have children, and lots of them, than healthy, wise, hard-working people in current society.
Posted by: Mike | Jul 23 2023 10:57 utc | 59
—
I do not want to defend fat disfigured couples wallowing in alcohol and filth, but I think they are far less prone to boot licking than healthy, wise, hard-working people in current society. 🙂
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 23 2023 11:06 utc | 61
One way to cut through the propaganda used by both sides, and assess a situation without relying on easily corruptible ratios or crude indicators, is to analyse the level of choice a participant has in any given situation. Just as a financially stressed household, wanting a holiday, has no choice but to look at budget options closer to home, the multi-millionaire visiting the same location, is not compelled to stay there. Similarly, just as Ukraine are forced to attack at certain points on the line of contact, due to political and military pressures, the Russians are largely constrained by the laws of combat. Ukrainians have to use cluster munitions, due to shell shortages, the Russians can choose to, if the targets profile matches. Ukraine has to attack into the teeth of Russia’s pre-prepared defensive lines, or where she has the largest troop densities, Russia can build up her northern bridgehead, whilst continuing previous operations.
Even where Russia is reacting she has more options than the initiator. Due to logistical constraints and tactical factors, Ukraine no longer has the ability to play the armoured card and due to political considerations is forced to repeatedly launch wave after wave of failed assaults. Russia, already dictating the likely Ukrainian axes of advance, can choose to fall back, reinforce or launch a counter attack, but is not compelled to use any of these options, whilst still retaining the ability to select platforms based on criteria of effectiveness, not necessity.
The more options and less limitations a combatant has, the more likely it is that they have operational and strategic ascendency or momentum, and vice-versa. Events on the ground increasingly suggest that this disparity in levels of respective choice, between Ukraine and Russia, is reaching levels that indicate a fast approaching end-game scenario. Specifically, the build up of Russian forces away from the current Ukrainian axes of attack, the rapid progress in enlarging and enhancing these possible jump of positions and more tellingly, the inability of the Ukrainians to stop these developments.
Posted by: Milites | Jul 23 2023 11:24 utc | 62
I do not want to defend fat disfigured couples wallowing in alcohol and filth, but I think they are far less prone to boot licking than healthy, wise, hard-working people in current society. 🙂
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 23 2023 11:06 utc | 60
Good point. And the thugs, criminals and sleazebags as well, to be honest.
Posted by: Mike | Jul 23 2023 11:33 utc | 63
“UKR LINES COLLAPSED AT KARMAZYNIVKA (Svatove Front) – Russia on verge of a breakthru to Oskil River”
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
Posted by: jpc | Jul 23 2023 11:50 utc | 64
I’m beginning to wonder that Ukraine is deliberately exterminating Ukrainian Russian Orthodox Christians and tipping the demographic balance in favour of the Uniates and UOCs.
I wonder what the attrition rates are between the groups.
It makes sense, create a tier of loyalists and send the undesirables as cannon fodder. Of course the loyalists die too but an order of magnitude less than the undesirables.
Posted by: Johnycomelately | Jul 23 2023 11:59 utc | 65
Collapse ?
Until we seen many battalion sized surrenders – NATO‘s army in The Ukraine ain‘t collapsing ( just yet )
A month ago there were rumors of 50,000 Sheep dipped Mercs fighting.
Posted by: Exile | Jul 23 2023 12:00 utc | 66
suicide conga line. its hard to watch . vechicles go past burnt wrecks to become the next burning wreck daily. The hapless guys chased down on the street are well past the ideological nazi types. POW vids are showing kids , aged, and disabled soldiers
Posted by: hankster | Jul 23 2023 12:07 utc | 67
And the thugs, criminals and sleazebags as well, to be honest.
Posted by: Mike | Jul 23 2023 11:33 utc | 62
—
What about the thugs, criminals and sleazebags in the boardrooms? One has to be a boot licking master to get there. Proper boot licking is their key skill, so to speak. 🙂
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 23 2023 12:08 utc | 68
Posted by: jpc | Jul 23 2023 11:50 utc | 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Mcg_hrQLk
Early days, but it looks like the Russians might have opted for an Operation Fredericus variant: Launching their own offensive when the Ukrainian counterpart has not yet reached equilibrium. The fighting around Bakhmut might then be seen as a lure, to keep the Ukrainians in an offensive posture, delaying any transition to defence or diverting resources to the threatened sector.
Posted by: Milites | Jul 23 2023 12:15 utc | 69
Vladimir Putin met with President of the Republic of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko at the Konstantinovsky Palace.
V. Putin: Dear Alexander Grigoryevich, as agreed, we meet today …
A. Lukashenko : Six months ago Deal.
V. Putin: This is true. We agreed a long time ago. We meet today in St. Petersburg. Weather good, today is sunday, but we always have something to talk about talk.
At the beginning of the conversation I would like to note that all our plans are being implemented, and even the best pace than we expected.
I want to point out the good the state of the economy of both Russia and Belarus. I watched latest data: year-on-year growth expected in Belarus economy – 3.7 percent. This is a predictive value, but no less. We have a little lower, I can say, but for us it is also a good indicator: we expect more than two percent growth. Your deficit is minimal – 0.4 percent. This is also very good. International reserves are at a decent, very good level. Unemployment is low. In general, all the main indicators give we have reason to believe that this year, in any case, we will pass confidently, calmly and demonstrate good growth rates.
We have a whole and all plans are being fully implemented for the construction of the Union states. We are moving confidently in these directions.
The turnover is growing. According to various sources, it is slightly different, according to our data, if in dollar terms, to speak – somewhere around 43.7 [billion], according to Belarusian statistics – almost 45.
A. Lukashenko: Services.
V. Putin: Yes, services, you are right – 45 billion dollars. So it’s very good indicator.
Nuclear power plant has already generated, I think, 17 [thousand gigawatt hours]. The second block will be launched this year.
A. Lukashenko: Already starts work, master.
V. Putin: Great. So everything is moving at least, modestly, satisfactorily.
Let’s talk, of course. and about security issues in the region – we understand what I just mentioned.
Hope we have today and tomorrow there will be an opportunity in an informal setting for all this discuss in great detail and detail.
Welcome!
A. Lukashenko: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.
I want you to listened to what I had to say. I specifically singled out a few questions. You they went over the economy so thoroughly – indeed, this pleases. The economy is the main thing. If there is an economy, we will decide everything else.
I want to start from work APU. Yesterday was a difficult day – according to our data, you then also tell me your opinion. It was a very difficult day. Fortunately, he is well ended. According to our data, I recorded more than 15 “Leopards” more than 20 Bradleys were destroyed in one battle. In my opinion, it has never happened before that foreign [types of military equipment were destroyed].
V. Putin: Foreigners, perhaps, so many were not destroyed in one day. Just there, with that parties, there were units fully staffed by foreign technique.
A. Lukashenko: Quite right.
Therefore, one can guess how many soldiers died, unfortunately, from the side of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, when so much equipment destroyed. I know this because I had to serve in armored vehicles an officer at one time, so I understand what it means to destroy so many infantry fighting vehicles and, most importantly, these vaunted “Leopards”.
According to the estimates of the United States of America, since the beginning of the counter-terrorist operation, the loss of the Armed Forces of Ukraine irrevocably, or as they are called, [amounted] to 26 thousand [people].
Vladimir Putin: More.
A. Lukashenko: This is already more, but a week ago they estimated more than 26 thousand from June 4th. I wrote down their details.
V. Putin: Even more.
A. Lukashenko: Yesterday shows – why I say this – that the war has to lead against the entire NATO bloc. Armaments – them, mercenaries have already been connected a lot, and, importantly, why yesterday is important, they connect the main strategic reserves. It goes to show that this mindless policy of throwing unprepared people and mercenaries in hell will not lead to anything. But there is no counteroffensive. What’s next?
V. Putin: No, it’s there, it’s just falling through.
A. Lukashenko: Failed. No results. What’s next?
They are you very accurately they said recently, they began to connect Poland and actively connect mercenaries. I specially brought you a map about the transfer of the armed forces of Poland to the borders of the Union State, which you spoke about.
We see the ground being prepared. Suppose one of the brigades found its place 40 kilometers from Brest. We stood at 500 kilometers, transferred to 40 kilometers. Map I’ll show you, we see it all. And a little more than 100 kilometers from Grodno – the second brigade is being transferred. They have a division, but so far the brigades have approached.
The Poles opened the repair “Leopards” on their territory; in Rzeszow, an airfield is being activated, where the Americans and others move equipment, and then it is transferred to the territory.
The connection of mercenaries and so on – this is what concerns Poland. I will now explain why I want draw your attention to this issue, although I emphasize once again: you was very correctly and accurately said at the Security Council.
Naturally, Poland posed the question: what in return? It’s clear: money, weapons, that’s understandable. But now, You also noted this, there is a lot of talk [about] piecemeal Ukraine in NATO. What is behind this? This is a smokescreen. Behind this is what You have been told.
V. Putin: Western Ukraine.
A. Lukashenko: Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, of course, but now we are talking about Poland speech. Tear off this piece of western Ukraine: under the guise of NATO membership in order to the population has gone, they want to chop off Western Ukraine and annex it to Poland. This is the payment for the active participation of the Poles in this operation against, of course, troops of the Russian Federation. The Americans support it. I somehow get you I have already said this for a long time, but we saw this six months ago and previously discussed. Why did I say all this? To us, Vladimir Vladimirovich, this unacceptable. Separation of Western Ukraine, dismemberment of Ukraine and transfer of lands Poland is unacceptable. And if the Western population of Ukraine needs it, we, Of course we will support them.
I ask you to discuss and thought about this. Naturally, I would like you to we were supported. If there is such support and Western Ukraine asks for this assistance, we, of course, will provide assistance and support to the Western population of Ukraine. If so, we will support them in every possible way. This is unacceptable, because we find ourselves subject to the military influence of the Balts and Poles from the west and it turns out that from the south. Union State – it doesn’t matter how you are they said we’d have to defend ourselves. Therefore, such approaches are unacceptable.
This is about our agenda. security is what we care about. I don’t speak Western Belarus, it’s just I want to say thank you. You are generally the first person in Russia who talks about this said openly, clearly and understandably. God forbid, aggression against Belarus is as against Russia. We take this into account in the organization of our armed forces.
Maybe you shouldn’t to speak, but I will say that the “Wagnerites” began to strain us. Heading west: “Allow us!” I say: “Why do you need to go west there?”. Well, and quietly [they say] – we control what happens: “Well, let’s go on an excursion to Warsaw and Rzeszow.” And Rzeszow is unacceptable for them. They fought near Artemovsk and know where the military equipment came from, and they have this inside: “Rzeszow is a disaster.” Of course I keep them agreed, in the center of Belarus, I would not want to relocate them there, because they’re in a bad mood and, to be fair, they know what’s going on around the Union State.
Well, that’s it, stroke. Therefore we will oppose this in every possible way, and I ask that you also watch this I have a question in terms of our support already in western Ukraine.
As far as the economy is concerned, I spoke about this, I would like to ask you once again that our governments came up with an economic plan. I wrote down for myself: the essence is self-reliance. We will not bend under anyone, there are enough brains, resources more than enough, and we need to build a plan for the development of our Fatherland – as I I say: “Two states – one Fatherland”, and we can do it. But the main forces here in Russia have been from ancient times, and if our governments work out such a plan, it will be good. Even if we get a little worse, people will understand and support us, because they will see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Moreover, we have already begun to do: microelectronics, space and so on, agriculture – and everywhere we we see good growth. So we need to unite this plan, appoint responsible ones, and on this we will do our job strategically. So that’s what I wanted with you discuss, we will not meet in a day. So tomorrow we still have time. I just I understand that you will find time for us to talk.
Vladimir Putin: Of course. I changed some of my plans. We are with you calmly we can spend one and a half or two days.
A. Lukashenko: We will settle these issues in a day and a half. Thank you, that you fulfilled the promise of six months ago about today’s meeting, therefore there is nothing extraordinary here: we have long planned and are meeting. Necessary will – at any time, as we always say, meet and discuss our tactical and strategic issues.
Vladimir Putin: As for foreign mercenaries, they also carry significant losses.
A. Lukashenko: Large.
V. Putin: Yes.
A. Lukashenko: Because of their tactics.
Vladimir Putin: Because of my stupidity.
A. Lukashenko: They go there in groups.
Vladimir Putin: In any case, the public of countries, governments sent people into the war zone today, should also be aware of what is happening there. And we will bring it to people so that they give assessment of the actions of their rulers.
Posted by: Mizfa | Jul 23 2023 12:16 utc | 70
Of course if they can reach Crimea, what can’t they hit? Moscow St Petersburg…only a matter of time.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 22 2023 23:40 utc | 24
And the Russians can hit London, Dublin, Washington and Berlin.
Posted by: RiNS | Jul 23 2023 12:20 utc | 71
And the Russians can hit London, Dublin, Washington and Berlin.
Posted by: RiNS | Jul 23 2023 12:20 utc | 70
It would be nice if the Russian’s hit something Ukraine’s Western hand-me-down junk once in awhile.
As it stands, Russia’s strategy seems likely to bring about the worst of all possible worlds. We’re going to get economic collapse, revolution, and WWIII all at once.
Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Jul 23 2023 12:26 utc | 73
— Russian troops destroyed more than 160 Ukrainian military and 7 Leopard tanks in the South Donets and Zaporozhye directions;
Posted by: Rubal | Jul 23 2023 9:17 utc | 49
!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 23 2023 12:29 utc | 74
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/36813
Ex-commander of NATO forces in Europe offered to bomb Russian ships in the Black Sea
Retired US Navy Admiral James Stavridis believes that the NATO fleet is obliged to escort ships in the grain corridor. His words are reported by Foreign Policy.
In the event of a threat from the Russian Navy, the forces of the Alliance should open fire to kill, said Stavridis.
In his opinion, the alliance should issue a “direct and unambiguous warning” to the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
Assuming this Stavridis guy hasn’t fallen victim to a fulminating neuro-degenerative disorder, the logical conclusion is that a (perhaps dominant) faction of NATO wants a direct naval conflict in the Black Sea.
This ought to be contemplated alongside the observation that the NATO side of the Grain Deal had abused it to the point that one might logically conclude they wanted Russia to pull out of it, in order to facilitate a shooting war of the sort that did for Moskva.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 23 2023 12:31 utc | 75
I do not want to defend fat disfigured couples wallowing in alcohol and filth, but I think they are far less prone to boot licking than healthy, wise, hard-working people in current society. 🙂
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 23 2023 11:06 utc | 60
They’re equally prone to bootlicking. They just lick different boots, that’s all.
Posted by: malenkov | Jul 23 2023 12:34 utc | 76
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230723/ex-us-admiral-proposes-attacking-russian-ships-in-black-sea-amid-grain-deal-spat-1112085294.html
Ex Admiral wants war with Russia in Black Sea. The US depth charge bombed Soviet sub off Cuba in the ’60’s but that was close to US shorelines, not like the Black Sea
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 23 2023 12:38 utc | 77
Who got married at the Naval Cathedral today? Got to get wedding photos with VVP and Lukashenko.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/2e9985bbd7aaec175611923581439144a939f211/0_72_5238_3144/master/5238.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jul 23 2023 12:38 utc | 78
Assume people have seen this – Colonel Richard Kemp
https://archive.is/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/21/ukraines-counter-offensive-is-failing-with-no-easy-fixes/
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jul 23 2023 12:40 utc | 79
As somebody said earlier propaganda works particularly when aligned with the hopes and fears of the population, who believe the good news and discount the bad news.
Posted by: Aslangeo | Jul 23 2023 10:03 utc | 52
I think its more that once you are forced into an army, you cant get out. Its much like a prison. Defection and surrender are difficult unless your commanders are also interested is surrender.
Nobody dares seriously discussing surrender, plus, where would a modern deserter go to get food? The nearest town is surely crawling with agents, and most men today have very little survival skills.
I would guess half the Ukrainian army would surrender, if they could.
It is much like, “Americans have more guns than people, why dont they revolt?”
Well, it is easier said than done. Without a leader, it is near impossible. Peasant rebellions are common in history, but becoming less so because the elites are using technology to make sure their nightmare of peasant revolt never happens.
Also, most peasant revolts were quickly crushed. We mostly never hear or read about them because they are unglorified or caste as bandits. Their success is very rare.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 23 2023 12:41 utc | 80
Re: full blown naval war in Black Sea
A few days ago Barflies discussed this and concluded that land based NATO AirForces are too far away to join in without refueling in air which makes them sitting ducks. Carrier based air ditto.
That leaves surface warships and missiles. The only NATO surface warships likely to be in the Black Sea are Romanian. Missiles ? Only pinprick attacks likely get through.
Net Net – at least for near term future, Black Sea blockade will stand
Posted by: Exile | Jul 23 2023 12:43 utc | 81
RiNS@70….hit Dublin? The flamboyant centre of Ireland…..the importance of Dublin being ……the major NATO air fields are out by the Barrens, but Dublin…..I doubt many Northerners would miss it…..the days of frolicking in the Free State long gone …..
Cheers M
On a lighter note, any idea of how long we might have to wait…..patience only goes so far. And with so much talk in the ‘west’ Russia can do this , can do that ……up North, money talks, bull shit walks…….explains the stinky smell of the SloMo.
Personally I favor the Russians but it’s a street fight now between heavyweight peers, as the Ukraine fades from the field and the NATO subs take the pitch. Let’s see how injury time plays out
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 23 2023 12:50 utc | 82
sean the leprechaun @80
Dublin would be the perfect target. Nobody cares about it enuf to start WW3
Posted by: RiNS | Jul 23 2023 12:58 utc | 83
Reports from Weeb Union and Defense Politics Asia are saying that there has been a significant Russian breakthrough in the Northern sector of the zero line just West of Karmazynivka.
If this “breakthrough” goes no where this week, then it will be of no more significant than the recent Ukrainian offensive that began on June 4th.
Yet, it could go somewhere. Worth watching.
Posted by: young | Jul 23 2023 12:58 utc | 84
Plenty of Western junk getting destroyed..
Another Leopard 2A4 Destroyed On Mine – And T-64 Is Dragged Back For Repairs…
vhttps://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-07-22_14-11-16:1
Posted by: RiNS | Jul 23 2023 13:00 utc | 85
US Civil Defense News @CaptCoronado
🚨🚨🚨 FLASH FLASH FLASH: NATO Orders Ukrainian troops and civilians to abandon the frontlines and the battlefield and return to the cities to seek shelter as soon as possible!
Something BIG is planned very soon! Will NATO intervene? Will peacekeeping forces enter Western Ukraine and freeze the war? Will NATO attack?
US Civil Defense News @CaptCoronado
🚨 Update: The former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and US admiral James Stavridis states NATO maybe planning to attack Russian ships in the Black Sea! Russia will also be preparing for NATO to attack!
Retired US Admiral James Stavridis is proposing deploying allied forces in the Black Sea to attack Russian warships and protect the Ukrainian grain corridor just like Zelensky is demanding!
Posted by: DA42EL | Jul 23 2023 13:06 utc | 86
Exile@79…ships can be Shadowed and SCALPed. As for Air force check out a KC130 super tanker put up a dozen of those, US had 35 up in the air over Conus on Friday, they can fuel NATO jets all day long. They don’t even have to enter the battle space.
Cheers M
They also have deep diving drones, pop one of those under a ship, but NATO will be too afraid to do that…..because, Russia will attack what ……better question, what has Russia done to deter NATO so far, other the whack some fodder in sardine cans.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 23 2023 13:11 utc | 87
Who got married at the Naval Cathedral today? Got to get wedding photos with VVP and Lukashenko.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jul 23 2023 12:38 utc | 76
Just normies, VVP and AL decided to go for a walk after visiting a museum, and there were just nornal people on a weekend.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Jul 23 2023 13:11 utc | 88
… Only pinprick attacks likely get through.
Net Net – at least for near term future, Black Sea blockade will stand
Posted by: Exile | Jul 23 2023 12:43 utc | 79
Maybe, but I don’t think that perspective is even compatible with what’s already happened (like the sinking of Moskva and the other serious, somewhat successful, attacks on various high value assets of Russia’s Black Sea fleet) let alone predictive.
Stavridis‘ comments evidence a keen belligerence, RF’s “partners” have done everything to end the Grain Deal short of launching missiles from the decks of “grain carriers”, Borrell seemed almost energised in the wake of RF ending its own involvement.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 23 2023 13:20 utc | 89
Re: Posted by: juliania | Jul 23 2023 3:39 utc | 39
“drought” is a perfect description. I have never experienced an American politician that answered any questions the way Putin has. Putin has an acknowledgement of errors, an example of corrections, or path to correct, and an ability to balance complimentary achievements with admonitions & goals to improve the national interest with pride.
No American politician has done anything close to these “draw out “ conversations. They all spew “American exceptionalism” with no forward path of correction ever, because that would entail admitting error, and the nation is much too narcissistic & superior for that nonsense. Perhaps one day.
But back to “drought”… thank you for the reminder that indeed… there will come a spring shower one day.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Jul 23 2023 13:39 utc | 90
Today:
The West Lost its Proxy War! Now? | Geoffrey Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ePJlScOWdQ [53mins]
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jul 23 2023 13:52 utc | 91
Sean really is a leprechaun, he’s convinced NATO has a pot of shiny military toys over the horizon that can change the equation, notwithstanding the utter opposition to war with Russia present in all Western countries. Including I might add Poland.
Sean, Maerica and its allies are equipped with overpriced underperforming garbage and would likely lose a conventional war with Russia in Europe due to logistical realities. That’s not even factoring in China who would get involved directly.
Russia has to keep the bleed slow and low..to a level that doesn’t provide room for Western psychopaths to go all in because that war everyone loses. So far this is working and by the time the geniuses realize the rope a dope is on them its too late they shipped too many things to the Russian demolition service..
It really does make our planners look like children making drawings in crayon and screaming about narratives, while the rest of the world is watching soberly and keeping notes.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 23 2023 13:58 utc | 92
Proof this poster is a paid troll –> shаdowbanned @31
No, it [destruction of Nord Stream] wasn’t [accomplished with nuclear weapons], it is not the right type of target and the damage does not fit. It was three pipes with holes in them, separated some distance from each other, and it was relatively small holes in each of them. Does that look like a single nuke?
First of all, who specified a single nuke?
Second of all, the damages to the pipelines absolutely were not “…relatively small holes…. There were hundreds of meters of very rugged pipeline destroyed in the blast sites, with very large sections of the pipelines tossed hundreds of meters away. The scale of the damage to the pipelines is one of the pieces of evidence for potential use of tactical nukes (sub-kiloton yield), as the only way to get that level of damage from conventional explosives would be to use boxcars full of the stuff. You’d need a huge ship with lots of specialized equipment like the USS Kearsarge or something to put that much conventional explosives around the pipelines, and where could you hide one of those? Oh, wait…
Anyway, I keep in mind when Lavrov was asked about the proscriptive power of the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) doctrine if nukes are used, and he replied “They already have been used.” MAD was a doctrine established well after the US used nukes against soft civilian targets in Japan. Lavrov is no fool, so Hiroshima and Nagasaki cannot have been what he was referring to, though exactly what he meant was left unstated. After all, why shred the last remaining inhibitory value of MAD? So I am confident he was referring to the Nord Stream attacks, as well as some other questionable incidents this century.
The key point of my post is that we now have to decide:
- Is shаdowbanned an idiot who just doesn’t know any better? Is he just a genuine moron who really believes the attacks on the Nord Stream pipelines only resulted in “…relatively small holes…”?
- Is shаdowbanned one of the numerous SOCOM, hasbara, NDI, Integrity Initiative trolls/barfleas infesting this roadhouse and tasked with blowing smoke whenever comment posters stray too close to uncomfortable truths?
I’ll leave it to the readers to decide. As for myself, I am confident the troll is a combination of 1 and 2.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 23 2023 13:58 utc | 93
Aircraft refueling in air with a slow and lumbering 707 are easy targets from stand off AtoA missiles fired from 250km away. Russian Air Force already shown this to be reality. SAMs have ranges upwards of 500km these days. thinking NATO Air is mostly useless as offensive forces in the Black Sea.
Agreed that NATO missiles and drones are the danger elements. Land and Surface based. No idea if RF’s EW capability has cracked their codes yet, but possible given years of listening in to AWACS etc. RF code Breaking is Second to none these days.
Posted by: Exile | Jul 23 2023 14:10 utc | 94
Jul 23 2023 12:31 utc | 75
we see if aegis destroyers are as useless as patriot batteries!
or if the vassals do what is needed and move all their tactical air power to rumania, and cover the useless us navy.
Posted by: paddy | Jul 23 2023 14:15 utc | 95
Jul 23 2023 13:58 utc | 93
everything shadowbanned is tl:dr!
useless drivel. failed ai!
Posted by: paddy | Jul 23 2023 14:16 utc | 96
sean the leprechaun | Jul 23 2023 13:11 utc | 87
Come on Sean! Those tankers would be flaming hulks headed for the ground with launch of just one MIG-31
Posted by: RiNS | Jul 23 2023 14:29 utc | 97
we see if aegis destroyers are as useless as patriot batteries!
Posted by: paddy | Jul 23 2023 14:15 utc | 95
Aegis Arseholes are probably good for the same things as all US weapons, which is killing civilians—shoot them into a wedding party or fill with radioactive waste and fire into refugee camps or children’s hospitals or something—and nothing more.
Posted by: Mike | Jul 23 2023 14:48 utc | 98
Posted by: paddy | Jul 23 2023 14:16 utc | 96
everything shadowbanned is tl:dr!
I’ve found the perfect compression algorithm for ALL shadowbanned’s posts.
Just replace with: “Putin sucks and should be tried for treason”.
Each and every time.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 23 2023 14:51 utc | 99
Doctor Eleven@92…..so you know it’s rope a dope, but they’re to stupid to figure it out……alrighty then.
opposition? Where, remember, money talks, bull shit walks, and the ROW, notes on what? To do what…..lots of if ands or buts…wringing of hands full of worry beads.
If you haven’t watched the NATO drone directed JADAM strike on the Russian field HQ maybe check it out. That’s where we are now, 1 1/2 years in. Two ammo dumps and a fuel depot in Crimea this week, toss in a bridge span last week. No off ramp. No yield sign. No slow, curve ahead sign. Are signs needed when speeding towards a visible cliff? The nuke nutters may be on to something at this rate……rope a dope,eh, I guess we shall see.
Btw, the is no harm, and lots of wisdom to be gained listening to the Divil’s Advocate. Forgot to mention, the Navel Blockade….off ramps, you see any?????
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 23 2023 14:54 utc | 100