Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 16, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-169

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

Somewhat funny news from Sky News Australia: Foreign fighters leave Ukraine due to witnessing atrocities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbNUZS7rdco
What kind of atrocities the poor foreign fighters had to witness? Well, that the Russians do fight back. 😉

Posted by: Tuk | Jul 16 2023 23:06 utc | 101

Quoted from Orlov
[The Russians] could do something more subtle: use one of their super-cheap Geranium 2’s to spread metal shaving [on the runways] for the F-16’s engines to vacuum up… and burn up in flight.
That’s a fabulous strategy. Russia has 200,000 of these drones in stores and is making 1 million of them. Using even 1,000 of them for the purpose is well worth it. If proven successful the tactic can be used against NATO members in the event of war.
Better still Russian drones can drop cluster munitions on Ukie runways, etc. This opens a deadly new war approach which wasn’t tried before. Cluster munitions had gone out of fashion when drones became so widespread.
Gerans and Russian cluster munitions is a match made in heaven!

Posted by: Jason | Jul 16 2023 23:13 utc | 102

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 16 2023 13:28 utc | 3
Thank you for that science-based opinion!

Posted by: Wanker Bungle | Jul 16 2023 23:21 utc | 103

Posted by: Tuk | Jul 16 2023 23:06 utc | 101
> What kind of atrocities the poor foreign fighters had to witness?
Something like this

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 16 2023 23:21 utc | 104

Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jul 16 2023 19:40 utc | 68
“Russia is losing generals left and right”
Military Summary hypothesizes that the best of Russia’s generals are being surreptitiously reassigned to a brand new army with a remit of taking Kharkiv (and perhaps Kiev?)
Posted by: Tim | Jul 16 2023 21:20 utc | 85
————————————————
Tim, I watched the video on You-Tube with a smile on my face the whole time. Like everyone else, I was wondering what was going on with the Generals’ dismissals, now it seems obvious to me. Also, the production of Lancet drones, 10,000 and counting. Looks like something is up, exactly what it is still not clear, but a new military combined with Wanger forces who recently signed contracts with RF MOD in Belarus to relieve the forces stationed there now, suggest a Russian counter offensive with a new military group, before the US can bring F-16’s into the battlefield.
Also, it appears that based on a video shown on this Military Summary that the UKies are already using Cluster Bombs in the field, which follows the Biden and British track record of announcing escalations of new arms after they have already been delivered to the US proxy.
It appears from the Military Summary that Putin will file a complaint with the UN, (a legal formality) which will of course ignore it, before the RF MOD responds in kind, as they will have every right to do.

Posted by: Ed | Jul 16 2023 23:46 utc | 105

The New York Crimes uses a photo of a nazi with the Pravii Sektor flag on its helmet as its lead photo.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/16/world/europe/ukraine-russia-land-mines.html
It remains impossible to take photos of Ukrainian forces without finding nazi imagery.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 16 2023 12:57 utc | 1
What is it with this face masking? I queried a long time ago and was told it was to preserve anonymity. Rot. These masks seem now to be part of the standard uniform and they wear them all the time. Have human beings lost all reason to the extent that now they feel themselves superheroes fighting on the side of right if they dress in trendy uniforms and space age helmets and even mask their faces thus completing the illusion of being ‘protected on all sides’ robot super being?
And wander over someone else’s territory whilst believing they’re repelling an invasion? And shoot at people their neighbours with whom they worked and did business with for decades and believe they’re shooting at invading foreigners?
Are these masks the most dramatic overt manifestation of the complete zombification of human beings?

Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 16 2023 23:51 utc | 106

Re: Posted by: Roger | Jul 16 2023 18:58 utc | 59
That’s an interesting potted history there Roger but, mostly, not directly relevant to the current conflict.
The current conflict with Ukraine has its roots in the decisions made from 1917-54 (37 years) that essentially created the “Frankenstein’s monster” country called Ukraine – and then which was relatively stable for another 37 years (1954-91) – and since then has begun to break down in various ways.
This breakdown has really accelerated since November 2013 – the breaking by Yanukovych of the EU-Ukraine accession agreement.
To truly resolve this conflict it is the decisions from 1917-54 which must be reopened and re-examined.

Posted by: Julian | Jul 17 2023 0:00 utc | 107

Norwegian | Jul 16 2023 17:47 utc | 47
That was fkg awesome; many thanks for sharing that. That soldier is absolutely correct; once the US no longer had to fight a peer adversary, it was all downhill for their military hardware.

Posted by: robjira | Jul 17 2023 0:15 utc | 108

The question I’m wondering about is what costs would Russia occur if it began digging entrenchments outside Odessa, and if they did that, what would be the odds of that causing the Biden administration to say it would “relieve the siege”, and openly use the American military to attack the Russian force outside Odessa.
How important would the timing be here? I’m wondering if Russia is waiting for the AFU to commit its remaining brigades, in an attempt to break through Russia’s lines, before dispatching a task force to Odessa.
Even just a plausible appearance of beginning to entrench around Odessa could compel Ukraine to formulate a hasty response, one that would divert resources they wouldn’t actually have to spare, but because of the optics of the situation would have to deploy anyway. Such a hastily formed force might either lack adequate air defenses, so it could get pummeled while traveling, and/or divert some from the defense of high value assets of the AFU that are currently committed to the Ukrainian offensive, and now the Ukrainian defense.
War isn’t like games, but resource allocation is very much a thing anyway, and Russia decided to keep its forces in a static location that was ideal for supplying it with everything it needed. If Russia now has extra resources it can spare, they might be best used by being deployed in a fashion to force Ukraine to spend resources to counter them.
Russia’s current counter-attacks could be based in part on that kind of thinking.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jul 17 2023 0:31 utc | 109

Some videos for today.
Russia’s FSB shares video of arrests in assassination plot on RT editor-in-chief:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/FSB-detains-1507:3
Russian howitzer opens fire:
https://rutube.ru/video/97f4cf7ef65f830ac17e7ba12accb8b2/
Russian self-propelled howitzer pounds the enemy on the Zaporozhye front:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/MoDZaporozhye:5
New footage of blown up Western military equipment on the Zaporozhye front:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-07-16_19-54-41:4
Western mercenaries continue getting hit:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/merc-mine-hit2:9

Posted by: Nate | Jul 17 2023 0:36 utc | 110

106@Arthur…
Having worked as a carpenter et al, I would most definitely be wearing a mask in such an environment!!

Posted by: donten | Jul 17 2023 0:45 utc | 111

@ Babel-17 | Jul 17 2023 0:31 utc | 109
Odesa is more symbolic as not as important, as the rest of its Oblast going south-west, to the Romanian border, along the Black Sea. Opens up a myriad of options there, that almost all go in favor of RF.

Posted by: whirlX | Jul 17 2023 0:48 utc | 112

@ Milites | Jul 16 2023 19:38 utc | 66
‘As for the fragility of Western weapons, compared to their rugged eastern counterparts, that is much overstated. Russian kit tends to be more robust because it is less capable and less flexible on an individual basis, as are the troops operating it.’
Posted by: whirlX | Jul 16 2023 22:44 utc | 97.
milites’ statement is ill-informed.
us weap0ns certainly are fragile, but the engineering term is not reliable! they are also not maintainable in harsh environments!
what milites suggests is that us weapons are not ‘suitable’ for the battle field because they can do flexible missions or such. this is a fair observation.
the problem with us weapons is they over run their design budget and take too long to do part of their much advertised speed, accuracy, and flexibility.
and those over runs take money away from reliability, quality manufactures and repair resources. us wunderwaffen do not perform on the battle field (if they don’t break down b4 they get there) because they break too often, do not have efficient repair plans and do not have tools, testers and spare parts. and many repair activities were not “bought” because of over runs and contractors have to do repairs…. contractors do not stand up to shelling or living in mud trenches.
the above is common to all us services’ wunderwaffen, and obvious from f-35 being 20 years over time, and 100% over budget, and so unreliable they could never get enough missions to do a decent test!
ford class carriers are the navy version of f-35!
the pentagon military industry complex wunder waffen ‘feet of clay’ are shown all over the ukraine debacle!
russia’s reverse engineering of us weapons will likely be able to send the pentagon a lot of engineering proposals to make the weapons work.

Posted by: paddy | Jul 17 2023 0:49 utc | 113

Poland is shaking in its pierogi-filled boots! Their army has been on an extended vacation from combat for several decades, sipping margaritas on a tropical beach while their weapons collect dust and their uniforms double as Hawaiian shirts. So, get this: Wagner is like, “Hey Belarus, I’m coming over to Ukraine to give them a serious case of second thoughts about entering!” It’s like a reverse psychology masterplan to protect those Ukrainian civilians. Talk about a plot twist! Did you hear about Wagner’s secret weapon? It’s called the “Polish Army Training Manual.” Apparently, it’s so poorly written that even a toddler could defeat them!

Posted by: HERMIUS | Jul 17 2023 0:50 utc | 114

The stupid, fake-and-gay, phony nation of Ukraine needs to be completely erased and reabsorbed into Russia. The war will continue until that happens. There needs to be regime change in Kiev. I am at a loss to understand why that little shit, Zelensky, is still walking around and breathing.

Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Jul 17 2023 1:01 utc | 115

This breakdown has really accelerated since November 2013 – the breaking by Yanukovych of the EU-Ukraine accession agreement.
Posted by: Julian | Jul 17 2023 0:00 utc | 107
—————————————————
Julian, you are full of it. Yanukovych did not break the EU-Ukraine accession agreement. Yanukovych received an exceptionally good offer from Russian President Putin. It was a great deal in fact that did not require heavy social security reductions and the selling off publicly owned utilities and infrastructures to US and American billionaire.
Putin agreed that Ukraine could do business with Russia and the EU, but the EU was adamant that Ukraine could only do business with the EU and not with Russia. This is the same EU nations who are also NATO Bloc members who are now arming Ukraine Nazis to fight a proxy war based on Ukraine’s right to join a military alliance that hates Russia but refused Ukraine the right to do business with whomever they wished.
Julian, you need to drill down on the 2013 and 2014 history between the EU, the Obama/ Biden administration just a tad deeper than your ignorant comment suggests. It was not Yanukovych that broke off the EU-Ukraine accession agreement, it was the EU and the US that said our way or the highway.

Posted by: Ed | Jul 17 2023 1:10 utc | 116

Why doesn’t The Ukraine produce its own weapons anymore ?
Posted by: Exile | Jul 16 2023 19:14 utc | 61
————————————————-
The ukraine was producing a lot of stuff for the soviet/russian industrial complex until 2014/15.
Posted by: Orgel | Jul 16 2023 19:35 utc | 65
—————————————————
And I think one reason that the UAF has survived so long is that over 80% of their kit has been of Soviet design origin.
Posted by: marcjf | Jul 16 2023 20:01 utc | 73
————————————————————–
Kharkov was historically the heavy weapons, armor and transport design and manufacturing hub. When Hitler came Stalin moved it all a lot further East. That became the origin of the T-34, no match for the German Tiger nor the F88 flak gun.
After the war, overhauling and modernizing tanks, heavy transports, etc. came back.
————————————————
The Western arrogance and a trust in its own technology supremacy is fatal. It was same during the ‘space race’, the very same style.
Posted by: whirlX | Jul 16 2023 22:44 utc | 97
———————————————————————————————
The Udvar-Hazy air museum near Dulles (IAD) exhibits a chrome plated F-35 engine, donated by Lockheed-Martin. Just looking at it, Rube Goldberg would have been proud. A literally ‘shining’ example of the arrogance.
Shipping US military goods overseas by the Military Sealift Command from wherever to wherever is an operational cost in someone’s budget. Same for C-17s, C5As, etc. if it will fit and planes and crews are available. Dover AFB has a ton of it.
BTW, the USN Submarine Service cross trains all its submariners to perform the jobs of other crew members with different specialties. Started well before WW II.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 17 2023 1:22 utc | 117

Inside Pfizer and AstraZeneca’s UKRAINIAN BIOLAB!
Mike Jones:
Employees reportedly FORCED to take UNTESTED drugs or BE FIRED. @JohnMarkDougan-BadVolf , Masha and Mike Jones got a guided tour of the ruins of a Ukrainian BioLab on the front lines near in Rubizhne.
t.me/iEarlGreyTV/6403
https://rumble.com/v26cbal-inside-pfizer-and-astrazenecas-ukrainian-biolab.html
Rumble

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 17 2023 1:47 utc | 118

Posted by: Wanker Bungle | Jul 16 2023 23:21 utc | 103
Thank you for that science-based opinion!
No charge, Wanker.
See? This is how you clearly delineate between “opinion, offered and presented as opinion” vs. “bullshit, presented as science based fact” which is what ALL of you NAFO trolls are educated to deliver as efficiently as possible.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 17 2023 1:50 utc | 119

Traffic has been stopped on the Crimean bridge: an emergency has occurred in the area of ​​​​the 145th support from the Krasnodar Territory. Law enforcement agencies and all responsible services are working. I spoke with the Minister of Transport Vitaly G. Saveliev, measures are being taken to restore the situation. We keep in touch with colleagues from the Krasnodar Territory. Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Crimea I. Mikhailichenko left for the place, the head of the Republic said.

Eyewitnesses publish footage of the situation on the Crimean bridge after the emergency
People write that powerful explosions thundered, perhaps some of the enemy’s missiles were shot down by air defense forces, according to another version, the support was blown up.
Now the cars are turning around at the entrance to the bridge, operational services are working on the spot
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/49370
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/49371

Posted by: knighthawk | Jul 17 2023 1:55 utc | 120

@Nate
Thanks for your daily vid links.
Here’s one that played after the mercs-in-a-can hitting a mine.
Lancet drones
They’ve been upgraded. And there’s literally 1 million about to enter the battle space.
That’s gotta be a “game changer”, right?
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-07-16_19-55-40:d

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 17 2023 1:55 utc | 121

@ Acco Hengst | Jul 17 2023 1:22 utc | 117
That became the origin of the T-34, no match for the German Tiger nor the F88 flak gun.
Yes, a medium T-34 had around 4 iterations and many variants on the same platform, Tiger was a heavy slow beast. Like M-90 and Abrams next to each other in comparison M-90 being tiny.
Medium tank got a big, equal or better to a F-88 gun since 1943, making scarce Tigers run, be killed or surrender.
After the war, overhauling and modernizing tanks, heavy transports, etc. came back.
T-34 had many improvements in turrets, guns, engines and armor from 40-43.
Germans couldn’t produce reliable diesel engine, but used Porsche petrol guzzler, that broke often in Tigers. Soviets upgraded their weapons on the go.

Posted by: whirlX | Jul 17 2023 1:56 utc | 122

I say “copycat”, you say “reverse engineer”.
Here’s the Brits taking on Russia’s newest plane:

Lord Of War
🇬🇧The United Aircraft Corporation is working on three new modifications of the Su-75 Checkmate fighter, including UAVs. This follows from a series of patents at the disposal of our agency.
For example, one of the documents published by the Federal Service for Intellectual Property testifies to a patent for “an inconspicuous single-engine single-seat aircraft.”
The description of the aircraft, images and colors contained in it almost completely corresponds to the appearance of the Checkmate, presented in previously officially published images and in the form of full-scale mock-ups.
At the same time, judging by the diagrams, the wing of the aircraft received a second (inner) section of reverse-swept flaperons with a larger area.
In addition, it increased in the tail section, forming a trapezoidal stabilizer of low elongation.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 17 2023 2:31 utc | 123

Crimea’s bridge was hit and Vladimir Putin won’t do anything but extend the black sea grain initiative like the cuck he is.

Posted by: La Mission Possible | Jul 17 2023 3:34 utc | 124

Crimean bridge – apparently road surface but not supports. We will see.

Posted by: Inki | Jul 17 2023 3:48 utc | 125

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 17 2023 2:31 utc | 123
What Brits? The UAC is a Russian corporation.

Posted by: Lemming | Jul 17 2023 4:00 utc | 126

Guess we are in different time zones, see the Crimea Bridge has been hit again by Ukraine. Still waiting for official details on the level of damage.

Posted by: Organic | Jul 17 2023 4:12 utc | 127

Posted by: La Mission Possible | Jul 17 2023 3:34 utc | 124
Crimea’s bridge was hit …
After numerous penetration attempts NATO’s micropenis seems to be unable to penetrate the actual bridge.
It ain’t fair to call Putin “cuck” if his antagonist is both impotent and erectile dysfunctional ….
At this point all Zelensky is doing is dry-humping the Crimean bridge.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 17 2023 4:14 utc | 128

The UAC is a Russian corporation.
Posted by: Lemming | Jul 17 2023 4:00 utc | 126
Have I mis-read the telegram post?
Will look again.
Thanks.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 17 2023 4:25 utc | 129

WSJ Video Report: This retired US General is explaining why the Russian defense line that the General Sergey Surovikin has designed is so hard for Ukrainian Army to break. The Surovikin Defense Line will be studied by military historians for years after the Ukraine War is over.
https://youtu.be/zMZ58anSFF4?t=281 WSJ

Posted by: Jay Lee | Jul 17 2023 4:26 utc | 130

On the previously-introduced – several times – subject of air-to-air missiles being used in a surface-to-surface role to attack targets such as buildings, Bulgaria Military Blog had a recent and interesting article which maintains the Ukrainians are indeed repurposing the old S-200 missiles to attack land targets. I have previously argued that this is not feasible – but I did not allow for the possibility that such a missile might be used in a ballistic application.
Therefore, while I was evidently not completely right, I maintain that there is no way to do this in a GUIDED role; you cannot get any of the S-series missiles to lock on to a target like a building. Indeed, the missile does not lock on to anything at all, but is guided from the ground by a rear-reference signal.
However, in a ballistic application similar to the Gazans’ stovepipe rockets used against Israel, if you simply point it and elevate it and let ‘er go, you might hit something. You just can’t aim it. The warhead might trigger, might not, but it looks like the Ukrainians just want to make a hole and harass townspeople in Russian cities like Crimea.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/07/10/ukraine-fired-4-v-880-sams-russia-hit-two-and-fried-the-other-two/
Whatever the case, it is not and never was the Russians using a surface-to-air missile in a land-attack role. Russia still has plenty of purpose-designed land-attack missiles, and anti-air roles for such SAMS as feature in its inventory.

Posted by: Mark | Jul 17 2023 4:40 utc | 131

Crimean bridge – apparently road surface but not supports. We will see.
Posted by: Inki | Jul 17 2023 3:48 utc | 125

Yeah we’ll see, bit unclear from the first pics at daybreak that just show damaged surface, also sounds like train line\portion will resume at 9am.

Posted by: knighthawk | Jul 17 2023 4:48 utc | 132

Avia-pro often haves a bit old news but this I haven’t seen before:
http://avia.pro/news/chvk-vagner-mozhet-popytatsya-shturmom-vzyat-suvalkskiy-koridor
Spectacular and speculative. Kartapalov has a record of flashy ideas.

Posted by: Catilina | Jul 17 2023 4:49 utc | 133

https://t.me/dva_majors/21336

Crimean bridge
Now without assumptions. It was a naval drone attack. One span of the bridge fell, the second – hung. Bases are intact. At night, a reconnaissance and strike UAV of the US Air Force MQ-9 Reaper flew over the Black Sea.

Because of course MQ-9s are flying without any fear 17 months into this, knowing that nobody will touch them…

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Jul 17 2023 4:51 utc | 134

@Depewty Dawg | Jul 16 2023 22:41 utc | 96

More than anything I really want the killing to stop and for people to start living in reality but it’s just not going to happen and it’s just so terrible. At least half of the West including the United States have completely lost their minds with transgenderism and climate alarmism and immigration and destruction of the nuclear family and destruction of all stabilizing influences for purposes they don’t even know themselves.
We are on a dizzying ride to Mayhem.

Thank you for this well formulated bird’s eye-view of what is happening. I can identify with your description, and the terrible thing is that this just can’t be a coincidence. This is destruction by design. The Khmer Rouge was the aperitif, and we are now into the main course.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 4:55 utc | 135

Now without assumptions. It was a naval drone attack. One span of the bridge fell, the second – hung. Bases are intact. At night, a reconnaissance and strike UAV of the US Air Force MQ-9 Reaper flew over the Black Sea.
Because of course MQ-9s are flying without any fear 17 months into this, knowing that nobody will touch them…
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Jul 17 2023 4:51 utc | 134
Shadowbanned is correct. All those who keep making excuses for Russia not to fight and strike harder and not to go after Kiev and Ukrainian transportation routes that are used to bring in enormous amounts of NATO weapons are just mentally enabling endless terrorism and endless war against innocent people, and allowing evil to get its way.

Posted by: MiniMo | Jul 17 2023 5:32 utc | 136

Crimea head Sergey Aksenov has assured that railroad service on the Crimean Bridge will be resumed before 9:00 a.m. local time on Monday (6:00 GMT).
“Regarding the situation on the Crimean bridge: I have just spoken with the First Deputy Minister of Transport of the Russian Federation Andrey Aleksandrovich Kostyuk. The movement of railway transport will be resumed before 9:00. The train schedule will catch up,” Aksenov said on Telegram.

Crimean Bridge Closed Due to Emergency: What We Know

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 5:33 utc | 137

Belgorod Region Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov later said in a video address that an underage girl was injured, while both her parents were killed, and their car was destroyed.

https://t.me/rtnews/44567

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 5:40 utc | 138

Erdogan is a snake.

The commander of Azov (a terrorist organization banned in the Russian Federation) Denis Prokopenko (aka Radish), who was supposed to be in Turkey, but was handed over by Erdogan to Zelensky for the sake of a “beautiful gesture”, today met with the personnel of the brigade. Nazi resources announce his imminent return to the front.
Meanwhile, Turkish Vice President Cevdet Yilmaz said that Ankara is very hopeful for an extension of the grain deal, which expires on July 17.
@voenkorKotenok

Posted by: MiniMo | Jul 17 2023 5:41 utc | 139

A train was hit at the railway station in Kharkov carrying western equipment. Some rumors say it had Leopard tanks on the carriages.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 5:50 utc | 140

Photos\video of parts of one span destroyed/dropped, other damaged. One hopes when they were making the past replacement spans, they started making some extras too, knowing a repeat at some point was inevitable.
https://t.me/OstashkoNews/84116
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/49381
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/49385
2 confirmed dead, 1 injured w/ headtrama – All related family in same vehicle apparently, parents are the deceased, teenage daughter in hospital.

Posted by: knighthawk | Jul 17 2023 5:51 utc | 141

Based on the newly surfaced footage of the Crimean bridge, it appears highly likely that an autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicle was indeed deployed by the special units of the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine.
There are reports suggesting that this underwater drone, which can also navigate on the surface, is equipped with a warhead weighing approximately 500 kg.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/73503

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 5:52 utc | 142

All those who keep making excuses for Russia not to fight and strike harder (…) are just mentally enabling endless terrorism and endless war against innocent people, and allowing evil to get its way.
Posted by: MiniMo | Jul 17 2023 5:32 utc | 136
Those are very few these days. And almost all are from natostan, like Marty from America. However, their talk means nothing, it doesn’t explain the lame smo.

Posted by: rk | Jul 17 2023 5:57 utc | 143

The attack on the Crimean bridge was a special operation of the SBU and the Ukrainian Navy, Ukrainian media write
It is alleged that surface drones were used .
Ukrainian intelligence commented on the incident with the words “Crimean bridge – the construction there is superfluous.”
***
while the TG-Rezident channel reports:
“The operation to blow up the Crimean bridge was supervised by the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine (GUR) together with MI-6”
@CyberspecNews

The British responsible again. After all, we know Zelensky is personally handled by MI6 boss Richard Moore, attribute to Scott Ritter’s document ”Agent Zelensky”.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 6:14 utc | 144

The Crimean bridge is impressive, but is it really that important?

Posted by: Catilina | Jul 17 2023 6:23 utc | 145

Reminded of the Japanese efforts to attack the West Coast of the US via submarine gunfire etc. – nil effect but energized the local population bigtime.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood

Posted by: Exile | Jul 17 2023 6:30 utc | 146

The Crimean bridge is impressive, but is it really that important?
Posted by: Catilina | Jul 17 2023 6:23 utc | 146

Yes, symbolically and strategically.
You need back up options, and if all there is left is the land bridge, you have a problem. The land bridge also goes over several rivers, and those bridges are in Storm Shadow range and can be taken out for weeks.
And symbolically this was Putin’s largest project, and the connection between Crimea and the motherland. Also, pretty much absolutely no infrastructure of significance has been built in Ukraine in the last 32 years aside from a few additional stations of the Kiev metro. Everything was squeezed into the pockets of the oligarchs and towards the West. This bridge had been in various stages of planning for nearly a century, it finally got done by Russia, and that shows what the rest of Ukraine could expect from a return to the motherland.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Jul 17 2023 6:31 utc | 147

Grain deal will end. Rumors that US is driving a cargo ship categorized grain transport into Odessa with US flag. To be honest, the ship could also be sunk with an underwater drone.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 6:32 utc | 148

The Crimean bridge is a beautiful structure. I should imagine it is very difficult to protect such a lengthy exposed span. I see it as a weak spot. All those saying I told you so, stop being idiots. As if you would be able to wage war on either side let alone protect a bridge. This strike would be to prove to the west that Ukraine while down is not yet out. It’s all so terribly sad and dumb. All people really want is a roof over their heads, food, health care and a bit of culture but they get whacked down again and again.

Posted by: Inki | Jul 17 2023 6:40 utc | 149

US and British recon aircraft and drones including Forte10 are flying close to the bridge, probably closer than ever before.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 7:15 utc | 150

This is pressure at Russia over the grain deal. If they dont agree to it, then there will be sea-based warfare going on is the message. This is where Russia is vulnerable as it is a huge open space that is very costly to cover and the enemy has a lot of assets that NATO will make available.
Also there is the situation with Turkey where Erdogan is very confident Russia will sign up again. This is because he knows that they can continue with it without Russia, meaning trade going on under Turkey’s and indirectly NATO protection.
He also has another ace up his sleeve: allowing NATO warships in the Black Sea under “humanitarian” auspices to enforce “grain” trade.
Lets see what happens. Retaliation will not solve the above problems. I dont know what the capabilities of the Russian navy are in deterring these dangers but they have shown to be quite vulnerable to sea-based warfare. I am thinking that the calculus for Russia is to for now allow weapons smuggling via an extended grain deal while they find ways to turn the tide in their favour.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 7:17 utc | 151

The whole thing is brought about by the very effective new weapon: subsurface semiautonomous drones at open seas. Neither Russia nor others have a way to counter these unless in concentrated defensive areas like ports. But even then some go through. It gives a large asymmetric advantage to the waker side.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 7:22 utc | 152

Retaliation will not solve the above problems.

It very much will.

The whole thing is brought about by the very effective new weapon: subsurface semiautonomous drones at open seas. Neither Russia nor others have a way to counter these unless in concentrated defensive areas like ports. But even then some go through. It gives a large asymmetric advantage to the waker side.
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 7:22 utc | 152

It isn’t just USVs/UUVs, it’s UAVs too. Iranian Shahed-type drones have a huge range and are very cheap. Anyone can launch large salvos of those at major cities very far away, and it will be hard to shoot all of them down. You can even put small nukes on them if you have such warheads.
The only thing that will stop such actions is credible deterrent.
But right now everyone is laughing at Russia and Putin’s red lines.
The only way to change that is to demonstrate that the deterrent is credible in no uncertain terms.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Jul 17 2023 7:30 utc | 153

Do Ukrainian army have to take Crimea by military force? I’d say no, they don’t and they will still retake it anyway.
Wars like this aren’t decided on the battlefield in the post WW2 world. They are decided by domestic politics and negotiations und those conditions. And domestic politics in Russia aren’t going to look good with Crimean agricuture cut off from water, cut off from logistics, huge numbers of Russian men dead and mercenaries being able to march on Moscow basically unposed by authorities.
Thins will get nasty in Crimea for those happy to await liberation while cut of from logistics and supplies. But when Ukraine “takes” Crimea, it is unlikely to have to do so by force. (and it’s not a good idea to be there then when you’re a known pro Russian. The neighbours are likely to hold y grudge for the hardships they were forced to endure….

Posted by: Chris Za | Jul 17 2023 7:41 utc | 154

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 7:15 utc | 150
British Rivet Joint and two US Global Hawk drones. One of them was 50km away from the bridge, and 30km from the Crimean coast. It’s close to legitimate to shoot them down.
https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1680836129426120705/photo/1

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 7:43 utc | 155

Regarding this incident, if I were Putin, which thankfully I am not, I would start by destroying 2-4 important bridges in Kiev or elsewhere ASAP. With any escalation that ratio would increase accordingly.

Posted by: Gigo | Jul 17 2023 7:47 utc | 156

It’s giving Russian civilians a few days to get out of Crimea before the rail bridge, land bridge and ferries become unusable. The clock is ticking.

Posted by: Chris Za | Jul 17 2023 7:47 utc | 157

Posted by: Chris Za | Jul 17 2023 7:41 utc | 154
Your scenario might have been plausible if AFU offensive would have succeeded.
It initially started with mass vehicle assaults, and has since degraded to sluggish infantry offensive and reduced Nato attack power , reducing vehicle losses but with increased infantry loss. It’s apparent they will never get to Crimea. This offensive was what Nato could muster for at least the next 3 years. The only way RU can screw up is through internal politics and sabotage.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 17 2023 7:49 utc | 158

Posted by: Chris Za | Jul 17 2023 7:41 utc | 154
Crimea is not cut off from water and logistics. It will take a lot more than a few terrorist attacks for that. To reach it by land it will take a lot of casualties on the Ukrainian side as things stand now. On land it became a war of attrition without a clear winner for now.
NATO can however use the new subsurface weapons to change the strategic longterm situation in the Black Sea. I am not sure how will that play out.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 7:50 utc | 159

Russia should level every single governmental building in Kyiev.

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 17 2023 7:52 utc | 160

Posted by: Chris Za | Jul 17 2023 7:47 utc | 157
If something remotely like that happens, Russia will simply go into mass mobilization mode and WW3 will be inevitable. PR like the one you are spewing now will stop having a purpose then.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 7:54 utc | 161

Can’t they put anti-submarine networks?

Posted by: Simplex | Jul 17 2023 7:58 utc | 162

Another terrorist attack on civilians and the trolls come out the woodwork on MoA.
“Russia is vulnerable”
“Ukraine is not finished yet”
You trolls are cheering for a fascist terror bloc that utilises Nazi worshipping proxies to murder and terrorise civilians in Donbas. The epitome of evil. Every one of you’re sick posts (Julian your twisted justifications especially, dressed as being reasonable) makes it clear who the aggressors are and who are the true defenders. This is obvious to all sensible people around the world.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jul 17 2023 8:03 utc | 163

Posted by: Ed | Jul 16 2023 23:04 utc | 100
Yes, these projects of influencing actual reality by mounting a parallel, fake reality, are a big industry now in the West so the old fat charlatan was a visionary.
Yet these techniques have been tried and have failed (e.g. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union) because even the largest amount of narratives will do little to change actual reality.
Actual reality is changed by working hard on the nuts and bolts of the basic mechanisms, not by narrating these mechanisms with biased story-telling.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jul 17 2023 8:05 utc | 164

Dolphins were trained against underwater drones but mostly to protect Sevastopol.

Posted by: Lorene | Jul 17 2023 8:08 utc | 165

About the terrorist attack on the Crimea Bridge. Is it just me or is the MSM tired of arguing that the Russians must have done it themselves?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2023 8:08 utc | 166

The Ukrainians say that Russia itself blew up its own bridge, these bastards are shit crazy. Nothing new.

Posted by: Psycho | Jul 17 2023 8:13 utc | 167

Can’t they put anti-submarine networks?
Posted by: Simplex | Jul 17 2023 7:58 utc | 162
I would say install turrets and sensors on each support pillar manned 24/7. It will cost a few thousand soldiers but it is worth it.
Another strategy how to combat this is to first fry the comms antenna above the surface (with the satnav guidance) and then explode something big in its general vicinity to make waves and throw it off course. It will not be able to correct course without the guidance.
Of course this works if there is no direct line of sight with a surveillance drone on satellite.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 8:19 utc | 168

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jul 17 2023 8:03 utc | 163
“This is obvious to all sensible people around the world.”
Most of the sensible people around the world don’t give a rat’s ass who is attacking who somewhere far away. People have much more pressing matters to think about.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jul 17 2023 8:25 utc | 169

Another idea is to land a drone on top of it and attach. Tricky to do but quadcopter drones should be more maneuverable than semi-submersed drones. Once you attach the drone it can then even try to recover it intact by frying the electronics on its turret.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2023 8:26 utc | 170

The new cover photo of the facebook site of the Kyiv Post: https://abload.de/img/screenshot-kyiv-post9ffw1.png

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 17 2023 8:28 utc | 171

@Apollyon | Jul 17 2023 8:28 utc | 171
They probably have a postage stamp ready to go?

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 8:42 utc | 172

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jul 17 2023 8:25 utc | 169
I did say trolls coming out of the woodwork to celebrate another terrorist atrocity. And obviously when I referred to sensible people, I wasn’t thinking of you. Give my ‘regards’ to Longhorn. I had hoped you’d both been figuratively buried under the rubble in Artemovsk, but your ‘bravery’ in continuing to post utter shite here comes from the fact that as you say, you’re a very long way from the front line and you don’t give a damn about the people being killed.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jul 17 2023 8:49 utc | 173

The Sirius Report suggested that the US may return to Afghanistan. The lure of easy drug money and lucrative casual warfare is the perfect MIC project. Note that the Taliban has almost wiped out poppy growing similar to 2001. The US got it back up to almost 10000T/yr and were shipping heroin into Ramstein if the rumours were correct. Great cashflow that paid for the war.

Posted by: John jeffery | Jul 17 2023 8:51 utc | 174

los gringos are desperate it seems.
A good way to stop the grain deal for Russia would be to destroy khokhol sea ports.
Sometime Erdogan may or will reopen Bosphorus to warships.
At a certain point russian patience threshold will disappear and Ukraine bleed for good.
There are simole ways to make americans retract: kill the ones who are abroad, embassy, schools and cultural representations employees. Drag the corpses around, Mogadishiu-like, chop them, make it graphic, cause awe into american public opinion.
It is since long that main american metropoles should have been destroyed Hiroshima-Nagasaki like.

Posted by: Timur | Jul 17 2023 9:00 utc | 175

TASS: The grain deal is terminated – Peskov.

Posted by: finally | Jul 17 2023 9:05 utc | 176

The grain deal is terminated, Dmitry Peskov said. According to the presidential press secretary, Russia will immediately return to the deal as soon as the part of the agreement regarding Moscow is completed.
Peskov also noted that the position of the Russian Federation on the grain deal was announced even before the attack on the Crimean bridge, this attack will not affect it.
https://t.me/tass_agency/201298

Posted by: finally | Jul 17 2023 9:08 utc | 177

The only negotiation possible on the grain deal is that the west fulfills its part of the deal through action

🇷🇺❌🇺🇦🏁🇹🇷The agreements on the “grain deal” have actually been terminated, it has been stopped – Dmitry Peskov.
Russia will immediately return to the “grain deal” as soon as the agreements concerning it are fulfilled.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/73522
Russia Suspends Participation in Grain Deal – Kremlin

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 9:13 utc | 178

A logical consequence of the second Kerch Bridge attack would be that Ukraine loses access to the Black Sea.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 9:15 utc | 179

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jul 17 2023 8:49 utc | 173
“celebrate another terrorist atrocity”
I certainly wasn’t celebrating it. Also, attacking important, almost vital, part of an enemy’s logistics is not terrorism. It is attacking a perfectly legitimate target.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jul 17 2023 9:20 utc | 180

@93
I don’t understand the “only”. That’s over 9000 a year.
Posted by: Technophobe | Jul 16 2023 22:38 utc | 95
Ah, god. My fault. He said 26 A YEAR. My fault.
Anyone got real figures?

Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 17 2023 9:21 utc | 181

Re: Posted by: Chris Za | Jul 17 2023 7:41 utc | 154
What a bunch of nonsense. Wars are decidedly made on the battlefield, not some boardroom, and Crimeans have had a better standard of life and employment over the last 10 years than decades before 2014, where there “hardships” under Ukrainian yolk were there worst. Any suggestion that Crimean people will be welcoming the sight of an approaching Ukrainian flag hoisted by Nazis looking to murder them is ridiculous.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jul 17 2023 9:40 utc | 182

Anon 25
But this is not the main thing – the Nazis expect that the grain carriers will accompany the Turkish warships, since Ankara is one of the main beneficiaries of the deal.
And if the Turks go for it, this, according to the Bandera people, opens up a chance to provoke a Russian-Turkish conflict if they attack Turkish ships, passing it off as a Russian attack. It is no secret that drawing NATO into an armed confrontation is one of the main goals of the Nazis. And for this, they are ready to sacrifice even a grain deal….. Comment 25
Don’t worry about that. Russia could always sink a cargo carrier at port ( at the grain loading terminal) which would put the loading terminal out for months, and repeat this if needed. Satellite pictures would show as loading infrastructure and when loading grain at port it usually takes over 10-20 hours. Plenty of time to interdict. See no place for Turkey to get involved. With the port out of operation Ships trying to get to Odessa would be warned that they will be sunk if they try to sail to Odessa. BOOOOMMMMMMM

Posted by: Col from OZ | Jul 17 2023 9:49 utc | 183

Today, 17. July is the 9th anniversary of another Ukrainian terror attack: shooting down of MH17

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 9:50 utc | 184

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 9:50 utc | 184
How much is it Ukranian if it was planned and supervised by the fucking MI6 pederasts? (Supporting indirect evidence was provided by John Helmer if I’m not mistaken). I’d argue this was a British op.

Posted by: Boo | Jul 17 2023 9:54 utc | 185

Today, 17. July is the 9th anniversary of another Ukrainian terror attack: shooting down of MH17
Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 9:50 utc | 184
Good call!

Posted by: Tim | Jul 17 2023 10:01 utc | 186

UK Defence Secretary (Minister for War) Ben Wallace says he will step down as defence secretary at the next cabinet reshuffle after four years in the job.
Mr Wallace told British establishment propaganda newspaper The Sunday Times he was quitting frontline politics due to the toll it had taken on his family. Wallace is reportedly separated from his wife (1). His marriage was not his only failure. Wallace became a Member of Parliament in 2005 and became part of the most disastrous Conservative governments in UK history, serving under the serial incompetence of David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, during which time the UK economy has slumped, with sustained high inflation, supply chain problems, labour shortages and over 200,000 UK citizens dead from an inadequate response to the Covid-19 pandemic. From the EU referendum and subsequent shambles, Covid Parties, Eat Out To Help Out scheme, discharging Covid patients to care homes, Covid contracts for government mates, unsafe housing, mortgage misery and a cost of living crisis, Wallace’s tenure in politics has been dire.
On announcing that he was giving the UK public a break and throwing in the towel, Wallace didn’t reflect for one second on the toll on families in Donbas due to his belligerence and UK warmongering in the Ukraine (2). In February 2022 Wallace displayed his hubris by declaring, “The Scots Guards kicked the backside of Tsar Nicholas I in 1853 in Crimea – we can always do it again.” (4)
Wallace’s father was a British soldier, active in Imperialist anti-communist oppression in Malaysia post World War Two. As the son of an army member Ben Wallace received private education at Millfield School. Showing meagre academic ability Wallace didn’t go to university and instead joined the army. Rising no higher than the rank of captain he served in non hot-spots Germany, Cyprus and Belize during the 1990s. While in the north of Ireland Wallace claimed to have captured an entire IRA active service unit. This turned out not to be the case, as records show that there were no prosecutions from the detentions (3). The British Army had a record of harassing and in some cases murdering civilians in the north of Ireland, long before they were doing it in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Recently touted as the next Secretary General of US Imperialist terror wing NATO, with his imperialist credentials balancing off his intellectual deficiencies, Wallace seemingly blew his chances by getting into a spat with Joe Biden’s favourite warmongering puppet Vlodimyr Zelenski, who Wallace labelled “ungrateful”. Perhaps he thought it wasn’t the real Zelenski (5). All that remains is to see which UK weapons manufacturer Wallace joins as non-exec director, then he can really cash in on death and destruction. No amount of money is ever enough for these people, so he can write a book and support its launch with a tour of rugby clubs recounting totally made up tales of how he had a crack at “the Paddies” and single handedly got all the Irish Republicans to surrender (Joe Biden won’t be buying the book of course) before personally attacking the Kremlin with a drone. Shameless appearances on UK celebrity dance competitions and making cake with a Union Jack icing and a sprinkling of chocolate ‘cluster munitions’ wouldn’t be beyond this oaf.
Wallace will likely be replaced by wannabe Prime Minister and arch imperialist Tom Tugendhat. Tugendhat is arch establishment, the son of high court judge and his uncle is Lord Tugendhat. He joined the Iraq invasion (an invasion of a sovereign nation under false pretences) as a territorial and transferred to army intelligence, so he is very motivated to keep Julian Assange locked up in order to cover the crimes that wiki leaks exposed.
Tugendhat is unlikely to be in post for long, as the economic catastrophe which is immiserating the UK public, should lead to resounding bye-election losses and a vote of no confidence in Rishi Sunak’s Conservative government.
(1) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/16/ben-wallace-says-he-wouldnt-rule-out-future-bid-to-be-tory-leader
(2) https://thegrayzone.com/2022/08/12/britains-military-russia-ukraine/amp/
(3) https://declassifieduk.org/exclusive-i-r-a-bombers-captured-by-ben-wallace-were-innocent/
(4) https://www.itv.com/news/2022-02-23/uk-has-kicked-the-backside-of-russia-before-and-can-do-it-again-wallace-says
(5) https://www.itv.com/news/2022-03-22/videos-released-after-ben-wallace-targeted-by-russian-pranksters

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jul 17 2023 10:07 utc | 187

@robjira | Jul 17 2023 0:15 utc | 108

That was fkg awesome; many thanks for sharing that. That soldier is absolutely correct; once the US no longer had to fight a peer adversary, it was all downhill for their military hardware.

Here is more of the same guy if you have Telegram:

🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦 A few days ago we posted an epic rant (https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/72891) of a Russian soldier talking about Western Proaganda and NATO Gear.
Sgt. Sergey Lisitsin was a guest on Russian TV to drop some more “truth bombs” about AFU troops and NATO.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/73529

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 10:08 utc | 188

@Boo | Jul 17 2023 9:54 utc | 185
I understand your point of view, and tend to agree.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2023 10:10 utc | 189

A few days ago I hear a report about a gigantic explosion having taken place in Romania and then I hear a report saying Romania declared they blew all their ammunition so they don’t have to give it to Ukraine. I immediately try to check out the Internet to learn more about but that’s when I wake up and of course it didn’t happen. It was so vivid it felt like real.
Sometimes I wonder If I’m not just having a bad dream and when I wake up all this shit will be gone.

Posted by: Mushroom | Jul 17 2023 10:11 utc | 190

as i mentioned earlier: bomb the havens of the khokhols and kill americans abroad

Posted by: Timur | Jul 17 2023 10:12 utc | 191

Looks like Wallace has been sacked for his blasphemous comments during the NATO summit, my interpretation anyway.

Posted by: Mushroom | Jul 17 2023 10:14 utc | 192

192 – His impatience with Kiev ingratitude suggested he has some grip on reality, but perhaps you cannot say that kind of thing out loud.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jul 17 2023 10:31 utc | 193

Posted by: Mushroom | Jul 17 2023 10:14 utc | 192
Looks like Wallace has been sacked for his blasphemous comments
I suspect he was on his way off the sinking ship anyway and that gave him license to make those “blasphemous comments”.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 17 2023 10:37 utc | 194

Re: Posted by: Col from OZ | Jul 17 2023 9:49 utc | 183
Regardless of Erdogans pandering, and current SA Middle East begging trip, the Turkish military will never engage militarily with Russia. They’ll toss Erdogan out before conceding to Bosphorus war with Russia. The Turkish military & Erdogan are completely self serving, and even if they did agree to Warship escorts, it would only be with the permission of Russia behind the scenes.
Turkey is not interested in screwing up the China BRI and becoming a partial energy hub for the BRI, and messing with Russia on any serious level, is messing with China, and they won’t do it.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jul 17 2023 10:37 utc | 195

Posted by: John jeffery | Jul 17 2023 8:51 utc | 174
The Sirius Report suggested that the US may return to Afghanistan. The lure of easy drug money and lucrative casual warfare
Also, it’s a straight line to China’s less stable Xinjiang via the Wakhan corridor.
I hope Putin takes this opportunity, if indeed it arises, to arm the Taliban with their finest surface-to-air weaponry …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 17 2023 10:42 utc | 196

The last time the bridge got attacked the Ukraine got deenergized. There will need to be a stronger response this time.
This is terrorism, plain and simple. The fact that rail traffic still can pass means it was militarily insignificant.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jul 17 2023 10:47 utc | 197

Re: Black Sea
Land based missiles will always outgun a navy within range of missiles.

Posted by: Exile | Jul 17 2023 10:49 utc | 198

I don’t think opium and its heroin derivative money is too much of an incentive in the fentanyl era, unless perhaps it turns out it kills too many cash cow addicts and consequently drives down the profits of the trade.

Posted by: Mushroom | Jul 17 2023 10:50 utc | 199

I think the best response would be a destruction of 750 KV electric grid

Posted by: Simplex | Jul 17 2023 11:14 utc | 200