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July 3, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-158
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Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin
Today, another attempt was made by Ukrainian drones to attack in New Moscow and the Moscow region. At the moment, the attacks are repelled by the air defense forces, all detected UAVs have been eliminated. For security reasons, some flights have been temporarily redirected from Vnukovo Airport. At 8:00 a.m., restrictions on flights in the area of Vnukovo Airport are lifted. There are no casualties, emergency services are working at the scene of the incident.
https://t.me/mos_sobyanin/5854
Posted by: ostro | Jul 4 2023 7:46 utc | 201
Posted by: Blissex | Jul 4 2023 7:12 utc | 194
Some comments on asset wealth of US households:
Those American Households in the top 20% of assets are not keeping ahead of inflation. They depend on wage income in the brutal middle manager class. These Households despite having multi-million wealth remain wage slaves.
American Households in the top 10% of assets are growing their wealth slightly ahead of inflation, but they’ll likely consume their wealth during retirement.
It’s the top 1% of Households that are able to capture ‘excess rents’ of capital/real estate. They are growing their wealth in real terms. These households have what used to be called in 19th novels an ‘independent income’ . Their wealth will be passed on to (usually) grandchildren.
Note average net assets of a US household in 2021 was $1.15 million .As of 2019; the threashold be counted in 1% household for Americans, you’d need $11 million net assets.
A million bucks sure ain’t what it used to be 🙂
Posted by: Exile | Jul 4 2023 8:00 utc | 202
Posted by: Richard Whitney | Jul 4 2023 0:24 utc | 134
and Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jul 4 2023 0:44 utc | 139
Thank you for these insights.
Demilitarization I can understand. But an army is a tool, with its own rules. When one orders an army to denazify, what does the army do? Checking prisoners of war for tattoos?
Posted by: Passerby | Jul 4 2023 8:05 utc | 203
@Exile | Jul 4 2023 4:38 utc | 180
The solution: Destabilise the regions around each rising power, subvert and destabilise the internal political situation within the borders of each rising power. Resort to direct military intervention when risks are low.
That’s Washington‘s Grand Strategy for sure. Implies that Europe needs to also be kept unstable
I believe the relevant saying here is “To succeed, even you own brother mustn’t succeed”, which has been attributed to everyone from Genghis Khan to who knows who. So you must keep others down if you want to succeed, else you won’t succeed. TPTB want to rule this planet, so everyone on this planet must be curtailed in case they negatively influence TPTB’s objectives. Fair and equal competition is not allowed to happen, its not the strongest that survive but those who keep others from surviving and progressing. Not at all what Darwin had in mind.
Then getting down to the difference between allies and vassals. Allies are allies, you can’t really order them to do something, you have to ask them to do something. Vassals on the other hand you can order to do something and they have to obey. So vassals are preferred to allies. So vassals can die for their lords and masters, just look at Ukraine. In BC there was some graffiti engraved into the rocks somewhere near the Oracle at Delphi site there somewhere in Greece. It has been translated as “Most people are shit”. Well, since most people are shit, their lives don’t matter anyway, they are just useless eaters. Therefore TPTB can waste the lives of everyone in Ukraine, in Poland, in Europe, to support their wars. They are just shit anyway. So Arch is correct, TPTB have no hesitation in wasting billions of plebs / Goyim lives to achieve their aims.
Posted by: gT | Jul 4 2023 8:29 utc | 204
Demilitarization I can understand. But an army is a tool, with its own rules. When one orders an army to denazify,…
Posted by: Passerby | Jul 4 2023 8:05 utc | 210
—————————–
De-nazifying is for the political system, not for the army. As you mentioned, army is a tool of the politicos. De-nazifying the Ukraine means to change its regime, one way or another.
Posted by: ostro | Jul 4 2023 8:35 utc | 205
nato seems angry after another sbu building was hit. They’re back to shelling Belgorod 100+ times a day tass.com/politics/1642175
Posted by: rk | Jul 4 2023 9:07 utc | 206
Posted by: Exile | Jul 4 2023 8:00 utc | 209
“Real wealth can only increase”.
R. Buckminsterfuller.
The rich start above 30,000,000$ – adjust for inflation –
It’s not the one percent but rather the one out of ten thousand.
The 1% are their lackeys, the 1 per thousand their majordomos.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 4 2023 9:45 utc | 207
… if the Patriot is beyond artillery range, what is close enough and numerous enough that it can be at the target coordinates in 4 minutes from target detection? …
Posted by: Tim2 | Jul 3 2023 23:42 utc | 124
Tornado-S rocket artillery for one. There was a TG report of them being used for counter-battery fire against HIMARS due their speed, range and precision.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 4 2023 9:55 utc | 208
Watched few videos from Kharkov. They all are talking of evacuation. But, some say they won’t leave the city. Everyone in the markets, in the streets, shops speak in Russian, by the way. Anyone heard anything about Kharkov and Sumy evacuations?
Posted by: ostro | Jul 4 2023 10:29 utc | 209
Posted by: krollchem | Jul 4 2023 1:05 utc | 144
Agreed. What is being refined is still a model of warm bodies, not one of pushing drones right into infantry roles, of which there are already plausible tech demonstrators. Comms remain a drone vulnerability, EW doesn’t work on people, but mesh connectivity and maybe wire / optic-fibre links (like TOW missiles) could help to make drones the economical option in “muddy” roles.
On reform, I think it’s active in the lower ranks, has to be because of the steady improvements and failure leading to obvious deaths, less scope for BS, but maybe an inverse function of rank. There seems to be a factor of keeping senior people in place in order that continuity projects strength, possibly resulting in less accountability than would otherwise be the norm.
I think there are suggestions of this effect if one is prepared entertain an unflattering view of things.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 4 2023 10:35 utc | 210
I have a question, is the Patriot just an anti missile system or is it also capable of shooting down planes and helicopters?
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 4 2023 11:38 utc | 212
@ Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 3 2023 23:28 utc | 121
Hi again you might remember I mentioned thesis/wia ratio and highballed Ukraine losses and said you were being overcautious
Yet, if wounded that cannot be sent to the front are just 1/4and if we consider that 20% of the Ukrainians has been spared all that prior to the counter-offensive, then they were onceagainat full strength at 700k. They’ll end with half of that and RF didn’t continue with CTO, only SMO, no conscripts
So you might havee enough ukrainians to hold the line by x-mas
Posted by: Newbie | Jul 4 2023 12:11 utc | 213
@ Posted by: gT | Jul 4 2023 8:29 utc | 205
A small correction /precision
Allies as you mentioned
Vassals have to come when called but there Are quis pro quo duties for the lord
Subject, you comply or else
Posted by: Newbie | Jul 4 2023 12:39 utc | 214
reply to 176
What is the imperialist motivation? It seems like almost a twisted spiritual or religious thing. Sure, there’s wealth but given the ages and health of many of these monsters, so what?
I can only say that it’s an ego thing in which the world is just a plaything and the lives of the masses mean nothing. I see this in things such as Bud Light or Hollywood. Box office bombs? Who cares?
And this makes it scary. Nuclear war? So what? If the Neo Cons are nihilists, then what?
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 4 2023 12:45 utc | 215
@Mikko | Jul 4 2023 12:10 utc | 220
You have circular logic. In fact, doing nothing since the coup guaranteed a large Ukr army with large supplies. To continue the tiny smo and to retreat after the broken agreement last year is on the same level.
At least this dude seems smart. Pays from his budget to defend the city tass.com/defense/1642351 Though I doubt he’ll ever be allowed to use anything, no one is better than the general staff because no one is better than the general staff.
Posted by: rk | Jul 4 2023 12:54 utc | 216
There are no grounds for extending the grain deal after July 17, given the current position of the West and the silence of the UN, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
NATO would love everyone to forget about Operation Gladio, that for decades it maintained a covert army of fascists across western Europe carrying out terrorist attacks.
⭐️ “The covert operation was uncovered in 1990, when the public learned that the CIA, MI6 and NATO trained and directed an underground army of fascist paramilitary units across Europe, deploying its assets to undermine political opponents, including through false flag terror attacks.”
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/06/19/files-british-natos-secret-terror-armies/
Declassified files expose British role in NATO’s Gladio terror armies
KIT KLARENBERG·JUNE 19, 2023
Discarding Old Taboos: Russia Resumes Direct Flights to Cuba
The Rossiya airliner that made its first direct flight from Moscow to Cuba after a break carries its own name, “Anadyr”.
“Anadyr” was the code name for an operation of the General Staff of the Soviet Armed Forces to secretly deliver and deploy army combat units armed with atomic weapons, including atomic bombs, medium-range ballistic missiles, tactical missiles Luna, Sopka and cruise missiles with atomic warheads on the island of Cuba in 1962.
Note: we-will we-will…troll you!
Kiev will receive dozens of Leopard tanks in the near future, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said in an interview with Rzeczpospolita .
“In the coming weeks, Ukraine will receive dozens of Leopard 1A5 battle tanks provided by Germany and Denmark,” Pistorius said.
The Minister specified that the new military assistance package of 2.7 billion euros, among other things, includes additional IRIS-T SLM air defense systems.
In February , Berlin announced that it would transfer up to 180 Leopard 1A5s to Ukraine.
Oleg Fadeenko, 27yo, from Pervomayskyy, Kharkov region, commander of notorious Nazi unit of Azov called Hatred was eliminated today by Russian army on Artyomovsk front.
Oleg dreamed of Adolf and Bandera and now he took the Bandera ticket to Hell.
The Russian Defence Ministry reported that the destruction of AFU units that landed on Antonovsky Island near the Antonovsky bridge in the Kherson direction has been completed
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 4 2023 13:03 utc | 217
The link to iEarlgrey telegram got lost in the posting .
All extracts from Mike Jones telegram ^
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 4 2023 13:05 utc | 218
The real Gladio info emerged in Italy with Licio Gelli and the P2 Freemason Lodge and how the Bologna Train Station Bombing was organised and also how CIA had Aldo Moro murdered because he wanted to bring EuroCommunists into Government in Rome.
The whole role of Giulio Andreotti over the decades in Italian Christian Democracy entwined with Gelli and Moro and Organised Crime and CIA is so convoluted as to be a veritable cesspit.
This was how MI6/CIA kept Italy under control postwar
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jul 4 2023 13:10 utc | 219
Head of the Ministry of Transport of Russia: About 100 cars are waiting to pass in front of the Crimean bridge, the waiting time is 30 minutes
Putin, at a meeting with members of the government, asked the Russian Minister of Transport to talk about the situation with traffic jams at the entrance to the Crimean bridge.
According to the minister, as of 14:00 Moscow time, 100 vehicles were waiting to cross the bridge.
Putin instructed to maximize the use of ferry crossings in order to solve the situation with traffic jams on the Crimean bridge.
The head of the Ministry of Transport said that in the morning he had a talk with the Minister of Defense of Russia about the situation with traffic jams on the Crimean bridge
“This morning I spoke with Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu, and he will provide us, if necessary, with 2 large landing ships”, Savelyev said.
According to him, each ship takes 40 cars, and if they make 5 flights(passages) a day, in good weather, they will be able to transfer up to 1,000 cars through the crossing, bypassing the Crimean bridge.
———-
A 100 cars
A 30 min delay
>…Intolerable. Shoiguuuuu….
https://t.me/llordofwar
(Although. I guess the backlog of civilian cars makes for a fat Storm Shadow or HIMARS target)
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 4 2023 13:17 utc | 220
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 4 2023 13:17 utc | 221
Landing ships would be an attractive target themselves.
Posted by: anon | Jul 4 2023 13:52 utc | 221
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 4 2023 13:17 utc | 221
Landing ships would be an attractive target themselves.
Posted by: anon | Jul 4 2023 13:52 utc | 222
@136 “Since the peasants had limited knowledge and experience with Jews as bailiffs and tax collectors for the hated Polish nobles, the peasants massacred the Jewish poor in large pogroms.”
How silly can you get? If anybody had FULL KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE with Jews as bailiffs and tax collectors, it WAS the Christian PEASANTS. It was their noses that the Jewish tax collectors cut off to get more taxes. That is why the Khazars were invited to Lithuania in the first place. Because they had no pity for Christians. The Bogdan Khmelnitzky rebellion was BECAUSE of Jewish abuses of Christians, not “because of pay.” As the 1606 royal Polish wedding pasquinade said: “Poland is heaven for the nobility, purgatory for townspeople, hell for peasants, paradise for Jews.” And you know that very well. This is hardly the place for that kind of disinformation.
Posted by: casca | Jul 4 2023 16:04 utc | 223
@ Blissex | Jul 3 2023 22:17 utc | 107
thanks.. i hear what you are saying, but i don’t agree with it, or with that approach more generally.. lets live in a world that is free of slavery, or slavish adherence to bullies… cheers..
Posted by: james | Jul 4 2023 16:14 utc | 224
Arch Bungle | Jul 4 2023 7:19 utc | 193–
Thanks for your reply. Your perspective is helpful. I hope to return to that issue later.
james@225
You are right. The UK always had the option of telling the United States to get lost and employ its considerable resources- unexampled in terms of skilled labour of every kind- to carve out an independent position for itself in the world.
This was what GDH Cole, the eminent historian and commentator on current affairs, called for. He said, in words that might be engraved on the tomb of the British nation, that for Gritain to allow the US to dominate Europe was a far greater danger than that posed by the USSR.
He was right. And the Bevanite wing of the Labour movement, including the great majority of the active party members, agreed with him.
The truth is that the ruling class was too lazy and too indifferent to the fate of the people to bother: they were and are perectly satisfied with carving out a niche within the Imperial command structure (God knows the competition in Washington is hardly challenging) while watching as their old enemies the working class suffer the misery that comes from de-industrialisation in a land which is 95% owned by the 1%.
As to Blissex’s source-Andrew Marr- he is a time serving mediocrity who parlayed a stint as Chair of the Tory Students Association into a full time job as a BBC propagandist.
Needless to say Marr was one of those leading the charge to snuff out the Corbyn attempt to return to the old Benn-Bevan-Foot policy of sovereignty and socialism.
What Britain needs is a guillotine-outside of Broadcasting House.
Posted by: bevin | Jul 4 2023 17:10 utc | 226
Exile | Jul 4 2023 3:59 utc | 173
*** Reading Kiev‘s statement, it appears Kiev wants to shakedown Unilever and sanction it’s (Jewish) CEO. Kiev seems really bent out of shape that Unilever‘s business inside Russia ( 3 factories ) is thriving.***
Unilever produces Marmite.
Could be NATO’s regime in Kiev wants a Marmite mining monopoly?
Posted by: Cynic | Jul 4 2023 17:26 utc | 227
I read Mendeliev again. And Bevin. There is a confrontation which builds up, and it is no more about about Ukraine than French Revolution was about Callas or Sirven’s cases in the 1750ths.
We are building on 10 or 20 years, or less, a coalition that can no more deal with the actual west masters than the French Revolution could deal with the nobles, past 1792.
Like in 1941 there will be an opposition to the West masters from inside and outside.
We inside count.
We are only in the forrunnings, we are still in 1780th or 1930th or in anarchist 1906.
At one moment the chain will tend itself, and things will go very fast. May be around 2029.
Tectonics mean huge moutains confronting themselves. War escalating as himalayas. It is the usual way.
There is no need to facsinate ourselves in nuclear things. Because we have no hand to that, no way to oppose. We can.just refrain from nervous hysteria. And it is possible what will counts will be elsewhere. (Sudden cut of all electricity for exemple, like the schemes of the 2000 supposed bug.
We are not yet clandestine,hidding so it did not start really yet.
UN is no solution. There will be a complete split between west and East with two main armies and thoughts and some rare neutral parts. (Only India I believe is powerful enough for that.)
Saoudia and Iran cooparating counts more on a long range than all about Ukraine which is no more than a teaser. As was spain in 1936. Popular and desmonstrative but not central.
XXIth century will be religious or wont be said Malraux 60 years ago.
People might want to read the last quarter of “les chênes qu’on abat” (“Oaks we cut down?” De Gaulle giving his view on our current time in 1969 to Malraux:
“Mao yes, Islam may be, Africa ?…”
In France the new rioters where 14 years old and living in small towns. They will remind it long.
Too much crypto fascism in French Police. Brown shirts like Germany in 1930.
Social divide and too obscene power. We might scale down to the 2 billions people we were 80 years ago. Life as this elasticity, like after the big plegue of 1348.
We will be “cooked” many times before the unity cake mature. Thanks to you here who are taming the inner fire of collective growth, this century again!
Posted by: Baile | Jul 7 2023 23:28 utc | 228