Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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July 1, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-155
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
In the western Ukrainian city of Ivano-Frankivsk, a hitman sniper tried to kill a businessman at a sports club, but hit him in the stomach. The victim was also a member of a rival organized crime group. And it fucking happens during a war, in front of kids. Damn, is this a country with democratic values, as we are told? This fucked up country is no different from Latin America, where crime has huge power. Posted by: Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 15:44 utc | 1 Posted by: danf51 | Jun 30 2023 21:35 utc | 98 Posted by: kupkee | Jul 1 2023 15:45 utc | 2 @ Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 15:44 utc | 1 Posted by: james | Jul 1 2023 15:55 utc | 3 Macron has asked for the Himars and F16s now. He needs them for some other reason. Zelensky will have to wait… Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 1 2023 15:56 utc | 4 danf51 | Jun 30 2023 21:35 utc | 98 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Jul 1 2023 15:57 utc | 5 . . .the Council on Foreigh Relations forgets about the US-led 2014 coup in Kyev
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2023 15:57 utc | 6 From July 1, 2023, there will be simply fantastic events in Ukraine. 18-20% increase in gasoline, 9-14% diesel fuel. Also, Ukrainians are in for a surprise in the form of an increase in prices for water supply, for example, in Kyiv by 30%. But even this is not enough, electricity prices for businesses will be increased by 50% at night and by 20% during the day. A month ago, prices for Ukrainians were also raised to 30-50%. Good times are waiting for Ukrainians. Posted by: Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 16:01 utc | 7 The Ritter piece on “Useful Idiots” (truncated unless you subscribe) had some new items that range from informed speculation to what sounds like some very excellent sources. Ritters RF source network could have only improved via his 25 day sojourn there. Probably more on Jul 01 on his main venue. Posted by: paxmark1 | Jul 1 2023 16:09 utc | 8 @ james | Jul 1 2023 15:55 utc | 3 Posted by: Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 16:10 utc | 9 [2] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jul 1 2023 16:19 utc | 10 B. Posted by: Exile | Jul 1 2023 16:21 utc | 11 Posted by: Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 15:44 utc | 1 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 1 2023 16:39 utc | 12 The Maidan Massacre Trial and Investigation Revelations: Implications for the Ukraine-Russia War and Relations (Russian Politics, Ivan Katchanovski, June 21, 2023) Posted by: S | Jul 1 2023 16:44 utc | 13 https://strategic-culture.org/news/2023/07/01/the-darkness-ahead-where-the-ukraine-war-is-headed/ Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 1 2023 16:55 utc | 14 For the third time in one week, Lavrov gave an interview, this time with Radio and TV Portugal. As usual, I’ve translated it and posted it to my VK here. I wrote the following as an intro to the translation: @ Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 15:44 utc | 1 Posted by: josesan | Jul 1 2023 17:11 utc | 16 War update: Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jul 1 2023 17:12 utc | 17 I don’t know if this was noted on the previous thread: At the end of Simplicius’s latest sitrep is a brief note and some video related to the level of support Putin now gets post-Rebellion that I urge barflies to watch. I very rarely see such video and was quite impressed. Video of AFU fuel tanker truck selling diesel to truck drivers. It might seem insignificant, but all this stuff contributes making dents in AFU fuel supply on the front. And we also had the other news today that American sniper rifles had ended up in France and used during riot. Posted by: unimperator | Jul 1 2023 17:20 utc | 19 The NATO Vilnius Summit is coming up on July 11-12th. Posted by: young | Jul 1 2023 17:27 utc | 20 @ karlof1 | Jul 1 2023 17:08 utc | 14 // 17 Posted by: james | Jul 1 2023 17:30 utc | 21 i am getting this message on all the twitter links people have provided today – Posted by: james | Jul 1 2023 17:31 utc | 22 Re: How will NATO keepthe Ukrainian Civil War simmering until Spring 2024 ? Posted by: Exile | Jul 1 2023 17:32 utc | 23 Is it possible to create a WWII thread for those Barflies who wish to (endlessly) revisit that history? @”1. The U.S. taxpayer would pay for the defense of Europe (NATO).” Posted by: p3t3r | Jul 1 2023 17:35 utc | 25 You are in error. European welfare states are propped up by high automobile prices, heavy taxation on fuel, very high sales taxes, and high payroll taxes split between employer and employee. As for Defence NO-ONE in Europe demands a $900 bn Military Budget in USA not even the Russians Posted by: kupkee | Jul 1 2023 17:38 utc | 26 @Neofeudalfuture | Jul 1 2023 17:12 utc | 16
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2023 17:42 utc | 27 Elsewhere a commenter gave an opinion that I share. This war is unlikely to end with an agreed settlement between Russia and NATO. Posted by: English Outsider | Jul 1 2023 17:43 utc | 28 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jul 1 2023 17:12 utc | 16 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 1 2023 17:46 utc | 29 it’s funny that Putin & Lavrov increased their weekly output but ordinary mortals would be best served if they apply common sense and invest in patience Posted by: nyet | Jul 1 2023 17:48 utc | 30 @Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 1 2023 16:55 utc | 13 Posted by: Reee | Jul 1 2023 17:48 utc | 31 Unfortunately; as an American, I resemble that remark. President Trump was the only President who refused to initiate a new foreign war without a declaration of war from Congress as our Constitution requires. For that grievous offense, he was impeached. Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 1 2023 17:49 utc | 32 Wonder if Wagner will open up recruitment centers in Africa. Especially in the current context of racist west persecuting them in European countries and it’s a good way to earn money and get back at the evil empire. Posted by: unimperator | Jul 1 2023 17:50 utc | 33 B. Posted by: kupkee | Jul 1 2023 17:50 utc | 34 I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia is looking the other way regarding arms traffic to the rioters in France, and perhaps other measures…After all, the neocons called for civil war in Russia, but, strangely, it showed up in La Belle France… Posted by: pyrrhus | Jul 1 2023 17:52 utc | 35 Overnight, the United States moved a specialized aircraft Designated “Constant Phoenix” to the island of Crete. This plane’s job is to sniff the atmosphere for proof of nuclear materials in the air. With all the talk in Ukraine about an attack coming against the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, this plane’s task is obvious – find reason to blame Russia. twitter links are now useless.. Posted by: Zet | Jul 1 2023 17:58 utc | 37 Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 1 2023 16:55 utc | 13 Posted by: Passerby | Jul 1 2023 18:02 utc | 38 Posted by: kupkee | Jul 1 2023 17:50 utc | 33
“London Bankers”, you say? Don’t forget who those “London Bankers” were: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 1 2023 18:04 utc | 39 @ Zet | Jul 1 2023 17:58 utc | 35 Posted by: james | Jul 1 2023 18:04 utc | 40 No no no. Waterloo was where Blücher got knocked off his horse and maybe kicked in the head. Half concussed, he still managed to get up and drive his troops on with ferocious determination. Posted by: English Outsider | Jul 1 2023 18:04 utc | 41 Macron has asked for the Himars and F16s now. He needs them for some other reason. Zelensky will have to wait… Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 18:04 utc | 42 Joke of the week: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 1 2023 18:08 utc | 43 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Jul 1 2023 15:57 utc | 5 Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 18:09 utc | 44 what a coincidence, the change appears exactly when Macaron is upset, blames social media for riots. And video games. Justice minister is monitoring snapchat, says he will arrest based on messages. Must be panic in nato, all minions put to work on censorship. So sad Russia has no starlink to give some terminals to the “freedom fighters”. Elon gave starlink to the fake Iranian protesters. Posted by: rk | Jul 1 2023 18:09 utc | 45 @ English Outsider | Jul 1 2023 17:43 utc | 27
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2023 18:09 utc | 46 @ 44 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 1 2023 18:13 utc | 47 Posted by: james | Jul 1 2023 18:04 utc | 38 Posted by: English Outsider | Jul 1 2023 18:18 utc | 48 Are there any Ukrainian sources that give an accurate picture of what opinion is in Ukraine itself?
Posted by: Zet | Jul 1 2023 18:32 utc | 49 Thanks for your replies james!
They must be smoking some really good opium to produce such pipe dreams. Russian AD will negate any such weapons as this excellent Simplicius analysis details. And then there’s the issue of actually penetrating Russia’s defenses and also defeating its offensive whenever that occurs. As the Antonovsky bridge ploy shows very well along with Bakhmut before, Russia will allow the Ukies to concentrate forces so they can be more easily dispatched. Ukies have had better recent success using much smaller forces whose missions are to slowly peck away at the Russian defensive skirmish line to find a weak point that might be exploited, although the Clobber Report still lists daily losses in the 500-800 range. how out of touch and downright bizarre is macron blaming video games for rioting. But remember Russia is unstable and the regime is collapsing Posted by: hankster | Jul 1 2023 18:36 utc | 51 @ josesan | Jul 1 2023 17:11 utc Posted by: Lost in time & space | Jul 1 2023 18:45 utc | 52
The NATO-trained Ukrainians do demine the minefields by stepping on every single mine. That takes time, and is very, very bloody. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 1 2023 18:45 utc | 53 Zet no. 35 and James no 21 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jul 1 2023 18:51 utc | 54 According to the Guardian, Zelensky is warning that Putin may be preparing to cause an explosion at the Zaporinhia nuclear power plant (Europe’s largest). If such an event were to occur and if it were proven that Russia was responsible, Chinese support of Putin’s regime might become significantly more untenable than it already is. Indeed, such a nuclear incident might induce NATO to take an even more preemptively aggressive strategically and tactically military role, which so far it has been wary doing so far, so as to mitigate the risks of a careening trajectory of escalation. Posted by: Jupiter | Jul 1 2023 18:53 utc | 55 Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said that Kiev is ready to continue the military conflict with Russia for many years. The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine noted that a survey was conducted, according to which 58 percent of Ukrainians expressed their readiness to resist Russia for years. Posted by: Exile | Jul 1 2023 18:54 utc | 56 @25 Posted by: DZhMM | Jul 1 2023 18:58 utc | 57 Posted by: kupkee | Jul 1 2023 17:50 utc | 33 Posted by: Jmaas | Jul 1 2023 19:00 utc | 58 I spoke of London Bankers so as to not get into the loyalties of the money changers. In a city like London, all money, via gold or printed paper in those days, ended back at the bank(s) of origin. Hence the Industialization of fractional reserve banking. You have $1 of your own money but can lend it out 10 times because that dollar keeps coming back to the bank (banking system). The peddler’s secret. Posted by: kupkee | Jul 1 2023 19:01 utc | 59 Zet | Jul 1 2023 17:58 utc | 35 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jul 1 2023 19:02 utc | 60 People are suggesting that Ukraine has to show results soon or they will be forced to negotiate a peace settlement. But there is multiple problems with that theory. NATO is now in too deep to simply back out now because a loss in Ukraine would mean the inevitable destruction of NATO along with it the Globalist agenda and US hegemony itself. NATO and Ukraine are currently unable to move forward or back. That could be a big problem…for everyone. Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jul 1 2023 19:11 utc | 61 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Jul 1 2023 15:57 utc | 5 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Jul 1 2023 19:13 utc | 62 B Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 19:19 utc | 63 Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jul 1 2023 19:11 utc | 59 Posted by: unimperator | Jul 1 2023 19:21 utc | 64 Nevertheless, the defense of Europe is still born by U.S. taxpayers, very little from Europe. USA War Mongers are not “my people.” Posted by: Nobody | Jul 1 2023 19:22 utc | 65
The actor can’t stop talking about Zaporozhye nuclear power plant (Guardian psyop can be found at post Jupiter#53) which has been tightly under Russian control since the beginning of last year’s escalation. It seems evident that his handlers in Langley, London, Warsaw, … are thinking of initiating another mind boggling escalation by destroying Russian infrastructure and subsequently perform victim blaming as was the case with the Nord Stream threads, Kerch bridge, POW camp, … . Posted by: xor | Jul 1 2023 19:23 utc | 66 (1) People are suggesting that Ukraine has to show results soon or they will be forced to negotiate a peace settlement. Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 19:27 utc | 67 Posted by: xor | Jul 1 2023 19:23 utc | 64 Posted by: unimperator | Jul 1 2023 19:27 utc | 68 JustAMaverick | Jul 1 2023 19:11 utc | 59 Posted by: Jmaas | Jul 1 2023 19:28 utc | 69 @JustAMaverick | Jul 1 2023 19:11 utc | 59 Posted by: rk | Jul 1 2023 19:30 utc | 70 Macron had called Lukashenka asking him to stop the civil war in France… 🙂 Posted by: ostro | Jul 1 2023 19:34 utc | 71 @ Apollyon | Jul 1 2023 18:45 utc | 51 Posted by: John Kennard | Jul 1 2023 19:34 utc | 72 The following is the latest I’ve seen, no source though: Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 19:38 utc | 73 Musk says twitter has to be throttled back because enormous amount of data mining is taking place, for ai uses etc. Posted by: Oh | Jul 1 2023 19:40 utc | 74 The Russians bombed the Ukraine’s deep rear, for over a year, could not turn the power off, trains still arrive at the front, a few get tapped but the Ukraine still has lots of men, shells and balls….big balls, next up F16s, something called ACTAMS long range or some such, perhaps the Russians have a plan, long war favours no one, allies will tire, war is like that. So while both sides hold their breath to see who will cave first, thousands more will die…..slow prossicusion favours no one, too bad the dead don’t get a vote. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 1 2023 19:42 utc | 75 In the comments from the previous article some folks getting rather happy over “And there is no doubt that many Jews were prominent in the Communist movement in Russia: less than 2% of the population they comprosed about 5% of the membership of the Bolsheviks”. Posted by: gT | Jul 1 2023 19:42 utc | 76 Polls can produce whatever response the buyer requires. 9 out of 10 housewives cannot believe it is not butter etc. Posted by: Oh | Jul 1 2023 19:43 utc | 77 Posted by: Reee | Jul 1 2023 17:48 utc | 30 Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 1 2023 19:44 utc | 78 Zet @ #47: What is a PUSH POLL? Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 19:44 utc | 79
Yup, IIRC the think-tank land and some nut jobs on MSM were now talking about how the AFU attack was only a “test”. So they figured out from this test that adding F-16 and some Abrams tanks could do better next time. Posted by: unimperator | Jul 1 2023 19:47 utc | 81 Posted by: Passerby | Jul 1 2023 18:02 utc | 36 Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 1 2023 19:47 utc | 82 Ukraine says civilians were at the pizzeria in Kramatorsk. Videos after the fact showed men dressed in military garb milling around. If I were a civilian in Ukraine and went to my local pizzeria for dinner, and saw what looked like a large number of soldiers at the joint, I’d get out of there as quick as possible. Posted by: Kellen Cramer | Jul 1 2023 19:47 utc | 83 I’m sticking to my belief that the entire Prigozhin Wagner mutiny was a stunt. Under the guise of banishment Russia got to move its premier seasoned fighting force and its equipment into a new planned theater in the SMO without undo provocation and escalation. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 1 2023 19:49 utc | 84 The only possible things I can think of are either a nuclear or biological false flag. Posted by: Frank McGar | Jul 1 2023 19:51 utc | 85 Essential analysis from the inimitable John J. MEARSHEIMER. Thoughts? Posted by: Mary | Jul 1 2023 19:55 utc | 86 Kellen Cramer @ 84
I wonder if they are still doing takeaway? Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 1 2023 19:56 utc | 87 Posted by: Mary | Jul 1 2023 19:55 utc | 88 Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 1 2023 20:00 utc | 88 @ English Outsider | Jul 1 2023 17:43 utc | 27 Posted by: whirlX | Jul 1 2023 20:04 utc | 89 France is a EU, NATO and a G7 country…and it is burning! Next will be Belgium, and Germany. Posted by: ostro | Jul 1 2023 20:07 utc | 90 Does anyone know why (if it’s true) Russians are leaving the nuclear plant? Russia is apparently silent on the matter when asked for comment. Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jul 1 2023 20:11 utc | 91 Zet | Jul 1 2023 17:58 utc | 35 Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 1 2023 20:11 utc | 92 Macron a dit plusieurs fois qu’il était du côté de l’Ukraine. Il est peut-être temps de mettre un terme à cette diarrhée verbale et se ranger du côté de la France. Posted by: ostro | Jul 1 2023 20:12 utc | 93 Stand back for a second and this situation is crazy. Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 1 2023 20:13 utc | 94 Perhaps a civil war, or perhaps to regain control of African colonies, or maybe new colonies? More likely for a NATO intervention into the failing proxy war. Posted by: dh | Jul 1 2023 20:18 utc | 95 Ukrainians conduct exercises or training in a nuclear winter. Now the question is why? To destroy the nuclear power plant and blame Russia again? Fuck these lunatics. Posted by: Crazy chump | Jul 1 2023 20:19 utc | 96 @ ostro | Jul 1 2023 20:07 utc | 92 Posted by: whirlX | Jul 1 2023 20:19 utc | 97 ostro | Jul 1 2023 20:07 utc | 92– OT, with apologies. Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 1 2023 20:20 utc | 99 Putin said that at least 80 percent of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish. Posted by: Ed | Jul 1 2023 20:20 utc | 100 |
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