Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 7, 2023
Ukraine – Biden Again Escalates

The Washington Post says that the U.S. will now give cluster munition to Ukraine.

Biden approves cluster munition supply to Ukraine

President Biden has approved the provision of U.S. cluster munitions for Ukraine, with drawdown of the weapons from Defense Department stocks due to be announced Friday.

The munition will be 155mm grenades, Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions (DPICM), that can be fired by 'western' provided artillery.


bigger

The decision, likely illegal, was made because the U.S. and its allies have run out of other 155mm munitions:

The move, which will bypass U.S. law prohibiting the production, use or transfer of cluster munitions with a failure rate of more than 1 percent, comes amid concerns about Kyiv’s lagging counteroffensive against entrenched Russian troops and dwindling Western stocks of conventional artillery.

It is accompanied by false statements that Russia has used such ammunition in Ukraine:

It follows months of internal administration debate over whether to supply the controversial munitions, which are banned by most countries in the world.

Cluster weapons explode in the air over a target, releasing dozens to hundreds of smaller submunitions across a wide area.

More than 120 countries have joined a convention banning their use as inhumane and indiscriminate, in large part because of high failure rates that litter the landscape with unexploded submunitions that endanger both friendly troops and civilians, often for decades after the end of a conflict. The United States, Ukraine and Russia — which is alleged to have used them extensively in Ukraine — are not parties to the convention. Eight of NATO’s 31 members, including the United States, have not ratified the convention.

It is well documented, by Human Rights Watch and others, that the Ukrainian military has used cluster munitions. There is nothing to support a claim that Russia has done so. The Pentagon has rejected claimed evidence of Russian cluster munition attacks:

Commenting on videos depicting alleged Russian cluster munition use, DOD officials stated during a March 1, 2022 press conference that “we’ve seen the same video that you have but we have not assessed that it is definitive with respect to the use of cluster munitions. So we are not in a position to confirm the use of cluster munitions at this time.” In a similar manner, a DOD official stated during March 3, 2022, press conference that DOD was still unable to confirm Russia’s use of cluster munitions.

Cluster munition are banned by most countries because they often fails to explode on impact and thereby leave a lot of unexploded mines on the ground:

The principal weapon under consideration, an M864 artillery shell first produced in 1987, is fired from the 155mm howitzers the United States and other Western countries have provided Ukraine. In its last publicly available estimate, more than 20 years ago, the Pentagon assessed that artillery shell to have a “dud” rate of 6 percent, meaning that at least four of each of the 72 submunitions each shell carries would remain unexploded across an area of approximately 22,500 square meters — roughly the size of 4½ football fields.

Last year the Congressional Research Service found that the real dud rate is higher than what the Pentagon claims:

There appear to be significant discrepancies among failure rate estimates. Some manufacturers claim a submunition failure rate of 2% to 5%, whereas mine clearance specialists have frequently reported failure rates of 10% to 30%. A number of factors influence submunition reliability. These include delivery technique, age of the submunition, air temperature, landing in soft or muddy ground, getting caught in trees and vegetation, and submunitions being damaged after dispersal, or landing in such a manner that their impact fuzes fail to initiate.

The Pentagon claims that the ammunition it will provide has a lower dud rate. But it never produced data from tests that would support its claims.

By agreeing to provide the munition Biden is circumventing or breaking the law:

There is no waiver provision in the 1 percent limit Congress has placed on cluster munition dud rates, written into Defense Department appropriations for the last seven years. Biden would bypass it and Congress, according to a White House official, drawing down the munitions from existing defense stocks under a rarely used provision of the Foreign Assistance Act, which allows the president to provide aid, regardless of appropriations or arms export restrictions, as long as he determines that it is in the vital U.S. national security interest.

Unfortunately neither Congress nor the courts are likely to intervene.

The cluster ammunition, like the Uranium tank ammunition the U.S. and Britain have sent to Ukraine, will make large parts of the country inhabitable and unusable for agricultural purposes. It will also make attacks and retreats through affected areas difficult for military forces on both sides.

Cluster ammunition was made during the cold war for defending against large scale armored attacks. They are imprecise area attack weapons. Their usefulness against the small unit attacks with a handful of tanks which we have often seen during this war is doubtful.

As the U.S. has run out of other ammunition what will it provide to Ukraine after the DPICM fail to turn around the fate of the Ukrainian army?

Chemical weapons? Nukes?

Comments

F-16. I wanna F-16. Gimme F-16.
So close. Yet so very far
https://t.me/iEarlGreyTV/6266

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 8 2023 0:42 utc | 201

RT reports:
The luxuries at Prigozhin’s residence include a helicopter pad complete with an aircraft, an indoor swimming pool, a well-equipped medical room, and a DEDICATED PRAYER ROOM. Photos also showed bundles of cash and several bars of gold.
A DEDICATED PRAYER ROOM ???
IS PRIGOZHIN JEWISH ???

Posted by: rt | Jul 8 2023 0:46 utc | 202

… this link …
Biden Defends Sending Ukraine Controversial Cluster Bombs
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/53709

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jul 8 2023 0:47 utc | 203

Posted by: K | Jul 8 2023 0:04 utc | 194
If you can’t spot his intermittent checking of the teleprompter then there’s nothing to discuss.

Joe addressed the fawning Irish parliament with complete lucidity and without reading a teleprompter.

He was often checking the teleprompter. If you’d said “without reading from a telemprompter” you’d have been partially correct, and the degree to which a speaker doesn’t have to lean on that tool is one metric for judging the quality of a speech. And his speaking indicated several brain misfires. It was one of his better speeches, but it was also one he heavily prepared for. The guy spends fewer hours at the White House than any President of recent memory, and flat out doesn’t hold real press conferences, because he can’t.
Even on stage during the Democratic debates among fellow Democrats who had no chance of defeating him, he was an object of pity, and barely concealed mirth. But he was needed to defeat Bernie Sanders so Elizabeth Warren knifed Bernie in the back, called him sexist, and James Clyburn organized the political machine in South Carolina to support Biden, and all the other nominees did as they were told and backed Biden.
Earlier, Speaker of the House Pelosi sat on the impeachment articles against Trump until it was time for Sanders to campaign in Iowa. The law then required Sanders to stay in Washington until the trial was over. That allowed Buttigieg to have Iowa nearly to himself, with Sanders, Booker, Warren, and Harris stuck in the Capitol, and thus he was able to more or less tie Sanders in Iowa, and deny him the bragging rights of a one two punch of victories in Iowa and New Hampshire. That could have ended things.
You’re not from America so you might fail to pick up on how corrupt and contrived things are. Biden was always a slick talking fraud, and never a deep thinker, and now his brains are turning to mush while mostly uninhibiting his ability to spout extemporaneously. But even when he had all his faculties, his slick talking often contained some horrendous talking points.
He bragged of doing stuff that would normally end any Democrats career, even though said decades ago. He was picked to be Obama’s VEEP because of how horrendous that stuff was, it balanced the ticket.
So now he gets to ride Obama’s coattails, and he’s all the Democrat’s have so as to keep the middle of America from bolting from a party that has lost its way, and lost its mind. I don’t know, maybe the plan will become to get Harris in before Biden’s term ends, and then run her as a sock puppet for Obama to control. That could work.
Anyway, Biden is a war mongering, barely walking, barely talking, piece of crap, and if you want to keep posting on his behalf, have at it. I’m done with the topic. lol 😉

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jul 8 2023 0:48 utc | 204

Tic for tat.. the Russian will announce that they will also use cluster bombs!

Posted by: Virgile | Jul 8 2023 0:51 utc | 205

Posted by: Roger | Jul 7 2023 22:04 utc | 165
The West have tried many, many wunderwaffe and the Russians have shown that they can combat every one.
=========================================
They’ve just been supplying old and surplus crap, or lower-level stuff like M777’s. Nothing Grade A.
RF has committed minimal citizens thus far apart from Wagner ex-convicts who took heavier losses for a while.
This is a managed conflict, part of a larger drama.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 8 2023 0:58 utc | 206

About how many of these cluster munitions can be supplied? They seem to be about 1 metre long so ‘smuggling’ them around the Ukraine will not be difficult.

Posted by: Ново З | Jul 8 2023 1:02 utc | 207

Some videos for today.
Russian soldiers capture British ‘Storm Shadow’ missile:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/storm-shadow-captured:1
Russian airborne troops storm enemy trench near the LPR’s Kremennaya:
https://rutube.ru/video/219d73aea8cdc548c8875495b38af0b4/
Russian artillery continues pounding the enemy of the Zaporozhye front:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/4743990610560:0
Russian NONA-SVK self-propelled mortar pounds enemy position near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/9eb0bbdbbac7dff9102dd3c89a352731/
Russian assault helicopters continue destroying enemy military equipment on the Zaporozhye front:
https://rutube.ru/video/ef0d786d01f5ec884a1c08ef3c590aee/

Posted by: Nate | Jul 8 2023 1:18 utc | 208

Posted by: K | Jul 8 2023 0:04 utc | 194
Posted by: Babel-17 | Jul 7 2023 23:39 utc | 190
I’m not American therefore not blinded by your partisan politics. Its obvious he is speaking without prompting if you turn off your own bias and watch it.
======================================
His mental condition is beside the point. Whether he is or is not compus mentis is irrelevant. Let’s assume he’s perfectly fine for the sake of argument. Nevertheless he is
a) a congenital liar by nature
b) a liar by necessity (probably the source of most of his speech impediments – he can’t keep his stories straight)
c) a crook (making him have to lie even more, this time by tradecraft if you will)
d) a controlled/compromised asset who was put in and who is only pretending to the C in C.
So even if he is a drooling moron it would make no difference to how the USG is run etc. Which again is why his competency makes little difference. (Of course he has to appear competent enough for the Presstitute media to ward off too many stories undermining the cover story. Thus far he’s done well enough and probably will continue to do so.)
Another twist: because he is such an Establishment tool, and because since Trump the gloves are off, meaning now the Establishment is more brazenly pushing its agendas (full bore woke etc and equivalents on other fronts), ironically his Presidency is becoming the most consequential in generations.
Possibly.
Because of course it can all be unmade rapidly. There is something so brazen, so extreme, about what is going down that it beggars belief and the question: ‘surely the pendulum must soon swing back the other way?’ The surrealism quotient is so high it seems like it must.
Time will tell.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 8 2023 1:23 utc | 209

The important part about the cluster munitions is the open admission by Sullivan and Biden that the reason is an inability to supply Ukraine with non-cluster 155mm shells. Sullivan said “until we ramp up production”.
Production was supposed to be ramped up to 20k/month by spring of 2023 with a possible 90k/month by like 2025. I’d put money on the US not getting to 20k yet. Months ago there were reports that the US was trying to buy Japanese TNT for shell production. That’s hardly the preferred material in 2023.
Almost a year ago a poster here linked a study that estimated total US stocks at 2.7M shells. Let’s call it 3M and give the benefit of the doubt to forward, long term storage munitions not included. The congressional record showed 1M+ shells supplied by late winter 23. There were additional 500k shipments out of forward stocks in S. Korea and Israel. If those forward stores aren’t in the 2.7M, it’s still at over a third of total US stocks supplied … if the congressional record isn’t undercounting actual deliveries (it probably is).
The US is tapped out. There have been no announcements about the new munitions factories and Sullivan still said “until we ramp up production”. It appears to be approaching the point where the US can’t give anymore. Literally. It also means the US can’t enter the war because it doesn’t have the artillery munitions. US forces can’t be put on a 3k/day starvation ration. And the US can only (apparently) produce <700/day.
The cluster munitions are a desperation move by the US more than an escalation.

Posted by: Lex | Jul 8 2023 1:23 utc | 210

@ Lex | Jul 8 2023 1:23 utc | 211
thanks lex.. that wasn’t lost on me either.. nato and friends seem to be in a default desperation place for the most part…

Posted by: james | Jul 8 2023 1:27 utc | 211

I think some of the paid trolls are obligated to jump to Biden’s defense if the criticism hits too close to home. After all, Biden is the top commanding officer for some of them, and for others he is the political front man for the organization that finances the fake NGO they are employed by.
It is obvious Biden’s brain is toast and he is not in control of his administration. It must be tough running interference for him on social media.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 8 2023 1:29 utc | 212

>>> Do note I say team in both instances, for that’s the reality –it’s not just one man being the Sage King.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 8 2023 0:01 utc | 193 <<< Agreed, Putin is very much a team player. Although ... I believe (not meant unkindly) he fulfils a Tsarist role for Russia. And justifiably so. I am one of few who believe that a BENIGN, WISE man/woman monarchy, the Sagely King model, is the best system. Not a hereditory monarchy (UK, NKPR), nor a militaristic one by violent coup, nor a revolutionary populist instalment, nor an oligarchially sponsored presidential one (US), but one like Russia currently has -- a very popular national leader, anti-corruption, the leader of an elected party, who has the trust of the people by dint of his wisdom and experience (and heart). Lol, try to Navalny filling his shoes! Lmao. I am mind blown every time I see VVP walk the Kremlin's corridors in the shadows of the Great Tsars (yeah, there were some shockers, but that ain't the people's fault). I am sure that inspires him to a humble greatness for his people -- unlike US Presidents with their bombastic superiority complexes. And, imo, the Russian people actually like a benign Tsardom, in contrast to the revolving door of left/right Uniparty dickheads. And what's wrong with a GOOD leader for life, I say? When you've found a good one, stick with it. Putin's portrait will go up on the Kremlin walls as one of the best Tsars ever! Russians must look at the liberal western democracies and think "Yuk, no way". What Russia has is like a modernist democratic Tsardom, which is why the west loves to call it a dictatorship and its people "stupid subjects", not realising all the while that their own "Commander-in-Chief" is really just a plutocrat run by the deep state pretending to be a benign democraticly elected president where the (great majority of) people are ignorant sleepers. After all, any President is just a King but with (supposed) constitutional and parliamentary/congressional oversights. Hmmm, that actually seems to work better these days in Russia than in America! Funny, but I imagine Queen Elizabeth would have been a better ruler than all her serving PMs put together. Well, that's my take, in a nutshell! I am no Russian historian, so excuse my ignorance if evident.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 1:33 utc | 213

There are two reasons here not to hit the panic button. For one, Ukraine will not be receiving anything close to the ordinance levels that the US dropped on Laos. The second is that Russia will likely begin targeting supply lines in Ukraine more heavily with specific intent on stopping the arrival of these munitions before they even reach the front lines. Also, as someone else here stated, at lot of these munitions likely won’t even go to Ukraine. The US has been exploiting foreign assistance laws to try and resupply its own (and other NATO members) stockpiles. Problem is, US manufacturing levels are still crap compared to pre-pandemic so it’s more like reshuffling than resupplying.

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Jul 8 2023 1:37 utc | 214

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Jul 8 2023 1:37 utc | 215
Yeah I too hope that Russia vastly increases its interdiction. Eg, Not having seen a single Challenger tank appear on the front lines, is it possible Russia already clobbered them all?

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 1:45 utc | 215

“IS PRIGOZHIN JEWISH ???
Posted by: rt | Jul 8 2023 0:46 utc | 203”
…you didn’t know?…

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 8 2023 1:46 utc | 216

You can all say it not the ordinary Americans which are responsible for this war but it is, this is just the same as having your pension invested in Tobacco companies, you are enabling the MIC and probably celebrating how well your investments are doing and your retirement will be great due to the vast profits of the MIC. Many American retirement funds I am sure are invested in the war machine because it is probably the main investment that is reliable and consistently giving fantastic dividends to share holders. Americans are brought up to be greedy and to make a buck by any means, profit is profit whichever way it comes to you

Posted by: les-1946 | Jul 8 2023 1:54 utc | 217

Posted by: William Gruff 213
“I think some of the paid trolls are obligated to jump to Biden’s defense if the criticism hits too close to home.”
I don’t think anyone here is defending Biden. I think we are all well aware of what a despicable degenerate he is but this claim of dementia is wrong. He does appear to intermittently glitch out and at those times would not be out of place in a nursing home but then the next time he is operating probably in the top 1% of his age group. Anyone that’s been around dementia patients knows that they do cycle back and forth but never to such a high level. I don’t know what is happening with him. But it’s the much as the left seems willfully blind to his episodes I think a lot of us on the other side are blind and just labeling as dementia when it’s something else. What is the truth about what’s going on with him? I don’t know but I do know it’s not dementia or Alzheimer’s.

Posted by: Whitney | Jul 8 2023 1:58 utc | 218

Posted by: Whitney | Jul 8 2023 1:58 utc | 219
I don’t know but I do know it’s not dementia or Alzheimer’s.
========================
He’s a performer who has to lie a huge amount on many levels. Considering the difficulty and stress of the task, he’s doing extremely well.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 8 2023 2:00 utc | 219

@ guessing game | Jul 8 2023 0:07 utc | 195
Zelensky leaves Kiev for another world tour…
That was looming to happen between March and April 2022, meantime BoJo intervened, forcing political dilettantes in the USA to follow. And then bastard moved away, smoothly protected by old money.
Now we have what we have. Upcoming train wreck, without any brakes.
The point is that EU blew the money that was buying its social peace. And bankers helped the USA to blow a mountain of public and private money and that ROI is not coming back in any shape or color. Ever.
Consequences might be that some banks will fall down, maybe even some exchange markets, too. And of course increased social discomfort in Europe. If people have no money, they are angry. C19 just accelerated process of a decay of a social state helping less privileged. Some murky things and deals happened under that fog, that it was also under the radar. All eyes on virus, right?
So, how to prepare for a transition to the new market values? In the best case
probably they will have to retune exchange currencies and that requires and is pending on to which tune BRICS are playing and dancing.
I think the result will be similar to a sudden transition to Euro from national currencies, in a few short stages. That was a rip off. It was doubling the costs of life gradually. Over the last 23 years Europeans are 60% poorer then before Euro, but they do not know it yet.
Germans are not keeping their Deutsche Marks stashes intact, in vain. Greeks were not allowed to leave Eurozone enduring the level of a worst possible “mafia blackmail diplomacy” in the name of European fiscal unity.
It doesn’t look very good, so far.

Posted by: whirlX | Jul 8 2023 2:01 utc | 220

The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 1:33 utc | 214–
Thanks for your reply. Here you’re incorrect:
I am one of few who believe that a BENIGN, WISE man/woman monarchy, the Sagely King model, is the best system.
Many millions have that worldview as it’s ubiquitous in East Asia, so you aren’t “one of a few”.
/////////////
I rarely cite Martyanov, but here he makes a very good observation and point:
“… the US never realized itself as true continental power because this realization comes only through continental warfare of scale. One simply cannot buy itself a military history no matter how one tries.”
The comparison is thus: Russia fought a full-blown, all-out existential industrial war in WW2 while the USA merely fought a partial, non-existential industrial war during WW; and by partial, as Martyanov said prior to what I cited, I mean operations that were small by comparison to those planned and executed by Russia and Germany.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 8 2023 2:17 utc | 221

Russia’s strategy of attrition seems to be working at destroying the Ukrainian military. Presumably Russia has reason to believe this is the best outcome, or if wrong and escalation continues then they may well see their death toll raise and finalizing things quickly may be cheaper in lives. Perhaps it is as Martyonov says and all in the math formulas.

Posted by: Organic | Jul 8 2023 2:33 utc | 222

War is emphatic. Special Operations much less so. I fully understand Putin and his team, his military basis required a long preparation, of years, and they have been certainly substantially accomplished, reserving “fully accomplished” as ideal never fully accomplished.
Cluster munitions, up to the minute aircraft, and nuclear devices. in short the whole ball of hell is all that’s left waiting.
Hopefully, Putin and his team are measuring by days and weeks and nothing longer. Nazi ethos, such to name depravity, knows it’s not tomorrow for them, it’s now. Most of the world seems to have been sensing it’s now or nothing. War is emphatic.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jul 8 2023 2:41 utc | 223

@karlof1 @222.
👍 Yeah, true. I meant “… one of few *in the west*”! And yep, a long, existential military history must certainly mould a nation. Agree with Marty on that. As a 235 year history white Aussie, we have had only 1-2 little skirmishes (on behalf of Mother England) out of which to prove our combat mettle. I am always amazed at Russia’s deep militaristic pride within its national psyche, not to mention its 25 million war dead in 6 years. Its east-west bridging location explains perfectly to me its hybrid “democratic-Tsarism”. Cheers.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 2:43 utc | 224

If Russia doesn’t have an end game then its elite are betraying the people as in 1991.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 7 2023 18:28 utc | 100
——————————————————–
Putin and Lavrov have stated what the endgame is, repeatedly, well covered in these pages. Pray tell, why is this a discussion item? Covering familiar ground, but expanded on today. Our memories should go back to more than the postings of the last two days or so.
—————————–
bevin | Jul 7 2023 18:46 utc | 103– and karlof1 | Jul 7 2023 20:36 utc | 135

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 8 2023 2:58 utc | 225

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 8 2023 2:58 utc | 226
They have an end goal. Question is if they have an end game.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2023 3:04 utc | 226

Posted by: bevin | Jul 7 2023 18:46 utc | 103
thanks, bevin.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jul 8 2023 3:05 utc | 227

Cluster ammo being sent to the Ukraine is a great example of why I am not a fan of Putin’s cautious, very conservative approach to waging war. The longer this drags out, the more likely the American Empire starts using nukes. I don’t think they will use nukes but they aren’t rational so who knows??

Posted by: My Comment | Jul 8 2023 3:07 utc | 228

Posted by: My Comment | Jul 8 2023 3:07 utc | 229
If Russia goes full tilt, blows away Ukraine, but loses 200,000 and thousands of tanks, vehicles and fighters, and depletes their missile stocks, NATO might decide that is the time to strike Russia with full force.
Russia in a weakened state would only have one defense left, also nuclear war.
The SloMO is truing to avoid that putcome.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2023 3:19 utc | 229

Putin will visit Turkey next month: Erdogan
Putin will visit Turkey next month: Erdogan
Melaleuca | Jul 8 2023 0:29 utc | 201
You guys all just scrolled by….
At the press conference with ClownZ, Erdogan announced Putin would visit Turkiye next month.
Why?
§ Grain deal
§ Prisoner exchange..
That’s the announced agenda.
Already the “grain deal” has been used to cover for other topics in past negotiations.
What else could possibly be discussed by Putin and Erdogan in Turkiye???
Maybe? The start of an off-ramp for USNATO-Ukraine????
It must be important for Putin to travel to Erdogan.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 8 2023 3:23 utc | 230

Posted by: grunzt | Jul 7 2023 19:54 utc | 121
thanks, grunzt. i was sorry to read that baud doesn’t care about russia at all. i think he must to be brave since the beginning.
i like baud for people who are wary of the truth, who want to believe the west. bc he is neutral and has that background of working with western institutions during the buildup on ukraine, he is very believable to western types who know something is wrong.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jul 8 2023 3:36 utc | 231

“I am one of few who believe that a BENIGN, WISE man/woman monarchy, the Sagely King model, is the best system.” The Dolphin
@ Karlof1 & The Dolphin
Suggesting, of course, the notion of Benevolent Absolutism. Although Putin is no Absolutist like Louis the XIV, in fact essentially the opposite of that man; characterized by L’etat C’est Moi. I’ve previously likened Putin to Frederick II, The Great, and I find the comparison fitting. But I think the Russians have found a better model; A non hereditary but pre-eminent/decisive leadership; first among equals; merit based.
And so, in general, I agree that if a society finds a leader that is fitting, stick with it; wise governance and stability are the benefits- the 23 years of that formula has brought amazing and rapid results to Russia.
I think in general, Russia has always had this. Anyone that didn’t fit the mold ended up like Peter III, or Nicholas II, or Gorbachev or Yeltsin. They can do their damage, but the society pushes them out and puts forward someone to take the reins and course correct. That’s my long view of it.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 3:49 utc | 232

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2023 20:36 utc | 135
ok. last time. thanks, karlof. interesting info on the meeting of the russian higher ups.
and of course, thanks b.
i don’t have the time i used to. appreciate you all, really.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jul 8 2023 3:50 utc | 233

I often wonder if allowing Medvedev to be president, and explore his ideas was part of the grooming process. It was clear that Putin was shadowing him in the wings, as evidenced during the Georgian war in ’08. But even after Putin took back the power, Medvedev wasn’t totally sidelined, and now, with more experience, and having been burnt by the West, Medvedev is right there at the center and more ‘rabid’ than Putin.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 3:59 utc | 234

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2023 20:36 utc | 135
I imagine that we’ll see something coming out of this meeting that expounds on or fleshes out the practical actions stemming from the new Russian Foreign Policy direction as was published a couple of months ago? Wow, that was a hard sentence to write lol. What I’m getting at is that, as you published, the Russian FM announced a new direction. And now, given the announcement of the new escalation by the Biden brain trust, Russia will take action and escalate with that new ‘policy’ as the ground base. (still not explaining it well am I?). But, with all that in mind (lol), do you think that Russia will escalate to a whole ‘nother level? Like go to 11?

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:07 utc | 235

I’ve been thinking more and more about the cluster bombs announcement.
I don’t know how to verify or refute this, but I a beginning to think that the White House somehow and for some reason needs to demonstrate its commitment to this farce of a war and its two options were long-range weapons or cluster bombs. Since nobody in their right mind will **ever** give Ukraine long-range missiles, cluster bombs it is.
IIf this interpretation is correct, then the WH is most likely just stuck in a situation where it doesn’t want to escalate but can’t yet bring itself to declare victory and go hom.

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:09 utc | 236

“As the U.S. has run out of other ammunition what will it provide to Ukraine after the DPICM fail to turn around the fate of the Ukrainian army?
Chemical weapons? Nukes?”
Amerithrax?
Covid XX?
Americhok?
Far fetched notion? Evidence suggests otherwise.
Surely the U.S. has cooked up some extraordinary, super-duper humanity extinguishing recipes in one or more of its global network of illegal military funded super-secret biolabs. Consider the credible body of evidence supporting allegations of US germ warfare against Korea and China in the 1950s.

Posted by: nwwoods | Jul 8 2023 4:10 utc | 237

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 3:49 utc | 234
>>>”Suggesting, of course, the notion of Benevolent Absolutism”<<< Hell no, I'm not suggesting absolutist rulers! Egomaniac dictators are like that, as are nutter theocrats. I mean more a wise leader who accepts wise counsel. Not being a global historian I can't name them. But I can't think of a good western example in my lifetime! >>>”But I think the Russians have found a better model; A non hereditary but pre-eminent/decisive leadership; first among equals; merit based”<<< Agreed. But it's interesting that the western narrative for Russia is still "evil dictator! evil dictator! undemocratic! undemocratic!" Interesting, the blind preference for a worse system. There's this Euro-Anglic adoration of the Golden Greeks. They never look to the east for political inspiration.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:15 utc | 238

the WH is most likely just stuck in a situation where it doesn’t want to escalate but can’t yet bring itself to declare victory and go hom.
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:09 utc | 238
That’s definitely plausible. And I think that here we find ourselves stuck in the ruthless logic of war and escalation. Events and the war are taking on a life and impetus of their own. The U.S. could but won’t (and in their minds can’t) back down, and Russia objectively cannot back down. Unstoppable force meets immovable object.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:22 utc | 239

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 3:49 utc | 234
But I think the Russians have found a better model; A non hereditary but pre-eminent/decisive leadership; first among equals; merit based.
Actually, this is very much the Singapore model. Many other countries have tried it (normally with poor results), but Singapore made it work. If you go back over a decade or so, you will see that *lots* of Putin’s policies (e.g. anti-corruption drives, income tax rates, national deficit/debt policies, etc.) seem to come from Singapore’s playbook.
And there’s nothing wrong with that–it was a very good playbook. It’s impressive to be able to make it work on a country the size of Russia, though, and without relying on being able to play off the US and China.
Singapore with Russian characteristics…

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:23 utc | 240

According to HRW, Russia has extensively used cluster munitions and has defended their use. Why omit this from the article?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/29/cluster-munition-use-russia-ukraine-war#_ftn13

Posted by: chris | Jul 8 2023 4:26 utc | 241

“As the U.S. has run out of other ammunition….”
They haven’t. They want the nastiest munitions used, that will annihilate everything Russian, they sincerely hope including civilians. What we are witnessing with Biden and his puppet masters are a cadre of very sick warped pychopaths and sociopaths dressed in fancy clothes and speaking big words. I stilll can’t believe Americans just watch as their country is conquered and destroyed. So much for the tough pioneers.

Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Jul 8 2023 4:29 utc | 242

Putin and Lavrov have stated what the endgame is, repeatedly, well covered in these pages.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jul 8 2023 2:58 utc | 226
Huh? Really? Then what is it, Einstein? If you mean the SMO aims, that is only a Start Game, far from the actual end. How big an end-of-mission are you talking about? If just territorial Ukraine, then please google “Zhirinovsky Map Ukraine 2015” for what MIGHT BE the Russian Duma’s vision. But Putin and Lavrov have never stated that. Medvedev sure has. If “To destroy US hegemony and create a multipolar world”, then there’s much much more water to flow under the bridge.
End game — a stupid concept anyway. No war ever had one. They end when they end.
Stated goals can be philosophical or theoretical. Realities take a little longer … as they unfold and newer goals become imperative.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:30 utc | 243

Hell no, I’m not suggesting absolutist rulers! Egomaniac dictators are like that, as are nutter theocrats. I mean more a wise leader who accepts wise counsel. Not being a global historian I can’t name them. But I can’t think of a good western example in my lifetime!
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:15 utc | 240
Yeah, I’m not saying your are. And I didn’t develop the thought properly. I was going to say that you should read what I wrote a little closer. But not necessary as you did get the point. Sorry.
Russia has what the philosophers of the 18th century idealized in their enlightened absolutism treatises/fantasies, but it’s even better, and without the hereditary or even God granted legitimacy.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:31 utc | 244

Unstoppable force meets immovable object.
Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:22 utc | 241
I agree, except that eventually the US will need to back down somehow. I have no idea how it will do so, but by now, even the densest moron in the White House must recognize that:
1) Russia views this as an existential threat and is willing to go all-in if it needs to
2) Europe (and especially Germany) is not going to be able to hold together much longer at the rate things are going
3) Even if the above two do not hold, the US doesn’t currently have many options left anyway, whereas Russia still holds a lot of cards
Honestly, I can’t figure out how it is possible that nobody in the entire military or alphabet-soup of agencies planned for a face-saving way out of this if it all went south, but it seems pretty clear that this is the case, and a whole whack of people absolutely need to get fired.
In the meantime, as has been posted on other threads, there doesn’t even seem to be a change in the propaganda to prepare the public that this war is a lost cause (or will at best, if a miracle happens, turn out to be a mixed bag). The incompetence is really overwhelming here.

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:31 utc | 245

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 3:59 utc | 236
Medvedev was “made” President to keep the seat warm cos Putin was legally unable to run for a 3rd term. That got changed, then he popped back in again. I THINK that was the story.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:34 utc | 246

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:34 utc | 248
Slightly off topic, but has anybody figured out how well a succession plan will actually work in Russia?
I am guessing (following Lee Kuan Yew and Gorge Washington, for that matter) that Putin was planning to retire and create a peaceful, permanent transition. I don’t think that is possible anymore–at least not before next election period.

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:38 utc | 247

polarbear4 | Jul 8 2023 3:50 utc | 235–
Very good to see and read your short comment! I do hope you’re fairing well. Yes, there’s a lot happening, but much of it’s on the Good Side.
My Best!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 8 2023 4:40 utc | 248

Singapore with Russian characteristics…
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:23 utc | 242
I know little about Singaporean rulers, but are you talking about Lee Kwan Yoo??? Back then, *HE* was globally portrayed as a ruthless dictator (by the lefty liberals). It’s the slur to throw at anyone “not us”, just before the US arranges their deposition.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:41 utc | 249

Agreed. But it’s interesting that the western narrative for Russia is still “evil dictator! evil dictator! undemocratic! undemocratic!” Interesting, the blind preference for a worse system. There’s this Euro-Anglic adoration of the Golden Greeks. They never look to the east for political inspiration.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:15 utc | 240
Yeah, it’s sickening ain’t it? But what else have they got? Russia standing in comparison, just makes them look bad. And it’s not that Russia is necessarily actively TRYING to make them look bad, it’s just that Russia is on the side of good, and the west is so patently evil, that their behavior does it to itself. Like looking into a mirror and seeing the side by side reflections of a human, and a wart covered troll. And the troll saying “aha! but he’s got a pimple!”

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:44 utc | 250

“As the U.S. has run out of other ammunition what will it provide to Ukraine after the DPICM fail to turn around the fate of the Ukrainian army?
Chemical weapons? Nukes?”
Amerithrax?
Covid XX?
Americhok?
Far fetched notion? Evidence suggests otherwise.
Surely the U.S. has cooked up some extraordinary, super-duper humanity extinguishing recipes in one or more of its global network of illegal military funded super-secret biolabs. Consider the credible body of evidence supporting allegations of US germ warfare against Korea and China in the 1950s.
Posted by: nwwoods | Jul 8 2023 4:10 utc | 239

Well, according to an official report of a Russian parliamentary investigation, the Americans are busily working on a “universal bioweapon” that can kill not only people but also animals and agriculture.
The effect of this universal bioweapon would be similar to nuclear winter in terms of its destructive impact and give America a military advantage over even those nations that have a nuclear arsenal.
This universal bioweapon would be like a nuclear weapon without nukes and could change the nature of armed conflict itself.
Scary shit.
US Working on ‘Universal’ Genetically Engineered Bioweapon: Russian Parliamentary Investigation
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230412/us-working-on-universal-genetically-engineered-bioweapon-russian-parliamentary-investigation-1109381193.html

Posted by: ak74 | Jul 8 2023 4:46 utc | 251

Yes, the same guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew
I don’t know very much about Singaporean politics either, but if you have the time and patience and are ok with wading through some pretty blatant self-serving propaganda, his two memoires (The Singapore Story and “From Third World to First”) provide a very interesting story for how to transition to the first world–I think Singapore is maybe one of 3-4 countries that managed to do it in the entire 20th century (and Russia is probably the only country to be able to do it in the first have of the 21st century–it is very difficult to pull off).
I think LKY was always viewed as a mixed bag–on the one hand he was clearly pro-Western and kept strong ties with the Western conservatives such as Reagan, Bush, Thatcher, etc. On the other hand, he was pretty aggressive about staking out his right to control the media, even if it ran against Western interests. I guess that at the time the West was a little more compromising and anyway needed his help with respect for China and USSR and so just grumbled and looked the other way. Having said that, I am not an expert in this area–90% of what I know is from reading his books.

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:50 utc | 252

The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:15 utc | 240
>>But it’s interesting that the western narrative for Russia is still “evil dictator! evil dictator! undemocratic!
It is our standard propaganda line. What we are for, really, is weak government. Democracies are easy to subvert.

Posted by: Jmaas | Jul 8 2023 4:50 utc | 253

Medvedev was “made” President to keep the seat warm cos Putin was legally unable to run for a 3rd term. That got changed, then he popped back in again. I THINK that was the story.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 4:34 utc | 248
Well, yeah. That’s the story. My idea is pure speculation, but does dovetail nicely into my idea of an enduring national “consciousness” that doesn’t tolerate (for long) incompetence at the top leadership. Notice though how Medvedev is still at the center of things. And has grown from a Euro-centric Atlanticist, to roughly a hardcore Russian sovereigntist. Some say it’s political posturing. Could be. But to me his transformation feels genuine.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:50 utc | 254

oh! meant to add, that the 2 ideas are not exclusive…Putin needs to step aside, constitutionally. Brings in someone that the leadership trusts and is grooming to be a place holder, but to gain experience as well. Felicity!

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:53 utc | 255

Actually, this is very much the Singapore model. Many other countries have tried it (normally with poor results), but Singapore made it work. If you go back over a decade or so, you will see that *lots* of Putin’s policies (e.g. anti-corruption drives, income tax rates, national deficit/debt policies, etc.) seem to come from Singapore’s playbook.
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:23 utc | 242
I didn’t know. Thanks for that! I’ll admit that my education and interests have been Euro-centric. God I love this blog!

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:57 utc | 256

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:31 utc | 247
In absolute agreement with everything you wrote!

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 5:02 utc | 257

Europe (and especially Germany) is not going to be able to hold together much longer at the rate things are going
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:31 utc | 247
The ruble has lost 35% of its value against the Euro in the past year, and is now worth less than 1/100 of a Euro.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=EUR
You are out of touch with reality.

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jul 8 2023 5:02 utc | 258

Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:07 utc | 237–
Thanks for your reply. Russia’s New Concept relates to the Big Picture and must be seen in context with the two major Joint Declarations made with China in 2022 & 2023. Part of the Endgame for Ukraine is mentioned in both the Yalta and Potsdam conferences and has to do with the eradication of Nazism which was never completed because of UK and USA providing is protection and life. This historical fact that’s rarely discussed in the West absolutely rankles Russia, and you really must be Russian to understand that. Read/listen to how Zakharova discusses Nazism in her weekly briefings. The population gained by the USSR between 1913-1940 was completely wiped out while many millions more weren’t born meaning 35-40 million lost just during WW2 from the main Western Slavic areas. A similar number of people both died and were never conceived during the 1990s Neoliberal Rape of Russia. The result is Russia today ought to have about the same population as the USA but is less than half. And that result I chalk-up to Nazism and its ally Neoliberalism. Many Russians see it just as I do.
Will Russia escalate? Does it need to? IMO, the answer to both is No. Looking at the battle map, IMO I see what Russia’s trying to do. Recall Eastern Front WW2 wasn’t constant battle; there were plenty of lulls. Russia has weight bearing downward from the Kharkov region and is using NZPP as a fulcrum. We shall see by August if I was correct.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 8 2023 5:08 utc | 259

Europe (and especially Germany) is not going to be able to hold together much longer at the rate things are going
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 4:31 utc | 247
That’s been repeated every week since around 1970. Funny that it hasn’t happened in all that time. Mainly Americans who say it here.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 8 2023 5:14 utc | 260

The use of cluster bombs to address the issue of “artillery starvation” means one and only one thing:
Desperation due to depletion of military resources.
The American Empire’s proxy war is essentially over.
All that remains is for the corpse to stop kicking.
Various signs in the past month indicate that the American Empire itself, including it’s neocon council of elders, has realised it’s impending defeat in Ukraine:
– meetings initiated by a group of American neocons (held upon their request) to discuss the war with Lavrov
– Desperate pleadings by Zelensky for weapons ANY WEAPONS that the European states can provided (see the recent Zelensky performance in Bulgaria)
The only question now is:
What single sign will appear in the noosphere that will conclusively mark the turning point? The point when America reverses it’s support of the Ukraine war and shuts their whole project down.
Watch the skies …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 8 2023 5:15 utc | 261

@ Whitney et al
Biden had a stroke during the 2020 election campaign. Remember that period of a week or so when he was saying incomprehensible things, acting clumsier and more confused than usual and his minders limited his appearances? That was when it happened.
He didn’t have a hemorrhagic stroke but a transient ischemic attack, where plaque or a clot temporarily impedes blood flow to part of the brain. Where in the brain this occurred will affect what symptoms he suffered, but memory or speech problems are common. His minders did a good job of covering it up but a compliant and uncurious press helps.
This seems obvious to me since I had a stroke a couple of years ago. I’m surprised that other bar patrons don’t know someone who has had a stroke.

Posted by: Gerry L Forbes | Jul 8 2023 5:21 utc | 262

The weekend issue of German newspaper nd quotes Pentagon spokesperson Pat Ryder saying “Ich möchte anmerken, dass die Russen bereits Streumunition auf dem Schlachtfeld eingesetzt haben.” Roughly re-translated: I’d like to remind you that the Russians have a already used cluster bombs on the battlefield.
Posted by: gynt | Jul 7 2023 18:56 utc | 104
As evidenced by pictures of toy-imitating bomblets on the streets of russian-occupied Donezk.
Interpretated by the same NATO-goons that keep telling us that Putin is bombarding his own NPP, his own Nord stream pipelines and his own office in the Kreml.
Ukraine went into the war with 500000 tons of cluster bombs in it’s armories. Now they’ve run out and need new supplies from.NATO.
Draw your own conclusions.

Posted by: Marvin | Jul 8 2023 5:41 utc | 263

Will Russia escalate? Does it need to? IMO, the answer to both is No. …. We shall see by August if I was correct.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 8 2023 5:08 utc | 262
Karlof1, is that what you were intimating by reposting the following from the Russian Security council?
“So far, they have not succeeded in anything worthwhile in terms of achievement the goals that they set in the Russian direction. I am sure that nothing will work. But you need to be aware of what is happening, so let’s Let’s discuss all these issues.”
I had thought you might be suggesting something more energetic, but on 2nd readin, I see that it is not so. It seems to be more of an even-keel, business like attitude of just recognizing the situation and making sure that all are up to speed/on the same page. I truly admire the Russian mentality and their ability to logically work things out in the midst of what could be a situation of hysteria. Like watching a Meyers-Briggs NTIJ calmly at work, but on a national level.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 5:43 utc | 264

wish there was an edit button. I meant INTJ 🙂

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 5:47 utc | 265

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jul 8 2023 5:02 utc | 261
1) Take a look over a two-year timeframe–somehow doesn’t seem that drastic anymore.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=EUR&view=2Y
Of course, you already knew this and chose to cherry pick your time frames. But hey, let’s look at EUR/UAH over a year:
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=UAH&view=1Y
What conclusion do you draw from this?
2) Please explain why the exchange rate between two economic zones that are largely not trading with each other matters. Don’t hand wave and say that “it’s obvious” or whatever. Actually start with the definitions of GDP (pick whichever one you wish) and then step through the analysis, stating your assumptions. Based on your retort, I get the impression you do not fully (or even partially) understand how capital and trade accounts work.

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 5:49 utc | 266

That’s been repeated every week since around 1970. Funny that it hasn’t happened in all that time. Mainly Americans who say it here.
Posted by: laguerre | Jul 8 2023 5:14 utc | 263
Ummm…No, it hasn’t been repeated every week since 1970. In fact, Germany was considered the bedrock of stability in Europe since at least the time of Gerhard Schroder up until recently.

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 5:52 utc | 267

When the US\NATO is done with Ukraine, there won’t be a Ukraine left. Ukrainians will be the equivalent of middle easterners in Europe, if they weren’t already before. Poor sods sold their souls & future to the devil.

Posted by: Nonsensical | Jul 8 2023 5:52 utc | 268

I’ve been surveying the MSM for the past 48 hours on the cluster munition decision by the US.
Aside from the amount of “massaging” of western morality to make American cluster munitions “good” while Russian cluster munitions remain “bad”, what is notable is the complete lack of observation that cluster munitions will complicate the battlefield for both sides, and more so for the Ukrainian side:
The proposal from the Americans is that cluster munitions will help the AFU break through Russian defense lines.
However the AFU are fighting back and forth across and around those defense lines, so what happens when they find themselves impacted by their own unexploded cluster bombs?
How sure are the Ukrainians that they will retain control of the battlefield at all times? Are they absolutely sure they will not find themselves being driven through their own fields of unexploded cluster bombs (not to mention landmines) ?
Moreover, what happens when the Russians decide to return the favour … ?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 8 2023 5:54 utc | 269

Winning is not the point for the US, they are fully prepared to sacrifice Ukraine to the heroic war against Russia. The war in Europe opens up very interesting opportunities for the US military and gas industry, in fact it’s an economic gold mine with no casualties of its own.

Posted by: Faraday | Jul 8 2023 5:54 utc | 270

6 percent, meaning that at least four of each of the 72 submunitions each shell carries would remain unexploded across an area of approximately 22,500 square meters — roughly the size of 4½ football fields.
Well, it just happens that I visited a temple in Laos last week. Within the last few years mines disposal experts have removed over 100 US submunitions from the area of just ONE football pitch. And they removed them only from the top 30cm of soil, many remain deeper than that especially where they fell into mud. 50 years after the end of the conflict. Many small children still get killed or maimed there every year, despite the bomb disposal efforts.

Posted by: BM | Jul 8 2023 6:07 utc | 271

Russia has weight bearing downward from the Kharkov region and is using NZPP as a fulcrum. We shall see by August if I was correct.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 8 2023 5:08 utc | 262
yup. I had written some weeks ago about Russia putting pressure on Kupyansk, which has implications for Kharkov, and threatening to split open the Ukrainian front by doing so. I can’t find it in the search function, but basically by taking Kupyansk, they’ll bypass the river, and threaten Kharkov from the south, eliminate the threat to Belgorod, as well as be able to roll south and clear out the threat to Donetsk from the rear; taking Slavyansk, Kramtorsk, Pokrovsk, and cutoff Lyman.

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 6:07 utc | 272

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 8 2023 5:54 utc | 272

Moreover, what happens when the Russians decide to return the favour … ?

Having said that, these cluster munitions will definitely lead to massive casualties on the Russian side, unless they can interdict these munitions and their launchers before they can be used in significant numbers.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 8 2023 6:08 utc | 273

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 5:49 utc | 269
BAM!!!

Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 6:10 utc | 274

@Posted by: Ed3 | Jul 7 2023 22:32 utc | 173
“They are claiming to have destroyed a number of Russian pieces of artillery doing this.”
The Russians have a massive supply of artillery from which to replace these, the Ukrainians not so much. The Russians will win the battle of artillery attrition, every day supplies more videos of Ukrainian artillery destroyed.
No matter how much the Ukrainians try to alter tactics, the Russian overwhelming dominance in all types of weaponry and munitions makes the attacks a waste of manpower, equipment and munitions. The Russians have the time to adapt given the very slow grind of the Ukrainian attacks.
@Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 8 2023 0:58 utc | 208
“This is a managed conflict, part of a larger drama.”
Its being much better managed by the Russians than the West, also the West cant risk getting their best stuff destroyed or captured by Russia. The Russians now seem to have captured one of those magical UK cruise missiles. The point may be coming in the next months, as the last experienced and motivated echelons of the Ukrainian army are attrited, for the West to fish or cut bait. The West loses in the larger drama whatever they do, they just haven’t accepted that reality yet.

Posted by: Roger | Jul 8 2023 6:15 utc | 275

Posted by: Lex | Jul 8 2023 1:23 utc | 212
Thanks for the calculus and analysis.
Everyone knows Nato is a joke without the US, US can’t give more stuff because they already committed in Ukraine with most potential. Nato is already fighting in Ukraine with most of its capacity, not only materially but commitment of officer corps.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2023 6:16 utc | 276

Ma Laoshi @11
Margarita Simonyan of RT, whom the likes of Martyanov predictably detest, said after the 7 May drone attack on the Kremlin that Russian officials should stop talking about red lines. “We can no longer listen to such things (if they are not enforced).”

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:17 utc | 277

Having said that, these cluster munitions will definitely lead to massive casualties on the Russian side, unless they can interdict these munitions and their launchers before they can be used in significant numbers.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 8 2023 6:08 utc | 276

Those cluster munitions will be very effective against AFU, which is now using small infantry units for attacks over wider areas without air defense and mine clearing equipment cover.
US opened the pandora’s box so there’s no rational reason for restraining use. But of course, they might choose not to, anyway.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 8 2023 6:22 utc | 278

I find the arguments over whether Bidet has dementia or is merely evil pointless. Bidet is not in charge. No American president since John F Kennedy has been in charge.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:24 utc | 279

rt@204
You didn’t know he’s a Jew?!?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:25 utc | 280

FWIW: When I search for “Has Russia used cluster bombs in Ukraine” I get endless hits from western media (eg CNN, NBC, etc) saying they have. Whenever anyone protests about US now sending cluster bombs to Ukraine on Twitter, many comments appear saying “Russia is using them too.”
Human Rights Watch (the former Helsinki Watch) also clearly says that Russia has used cluster bombs. On the page I found, the assert that Russia has used them, but in regards to Ukraine, they only say that “Ukraine has not denied using cluster munitions” (as if they’re quoting from a lawyer).
HRW says Russia has used cluster bombs.
Posted by: Charles Peterson | Jul 8 2023 0:18 utc | 198
In the source you linked, HRW states that according to independent investigations, “Ukrainian armed forces reportedly used cluster munitions in attacks on Izium city, Kharkivska region, between March and September 2022”
As for the “Russian” attacks, HRW presents evidence that cluster bombs were used, but no evidence as to who fired them. Instead, they simply parrot Ukrainian allegations that “Putin done it”.

Posted by: Marvin | Jul 8 2023 6:26 utc | 281

Arch Bungle 276
I’m fairly certain that these cluster munitions will primarily be used against civilians.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:27 utc | 282

I mentioned the thing about duds messing up advances and retreats earlier in this thread.
Now I’ll talk about the effectiveness of cluster bombs.
Like so many other seemingly unbeatable weapons in imagination, chemical weapons etc, all weapons have their drawbacks.
Cluster weapons look really cool when exploding from ariel view, but they trade off bog booms for a bunch of small booms. In forest cover, they are practically useless. Hitting trenches, they are practically useless. They randomly spray shrapnel all over the place, but the power behind it is so weak sandbags of even thick plywood could stop most shrapnel from being fatal, or even injurious.
If they were so great in modern warfare, they would be the primary munition. Thete is a reason they aren’t, and it has nothing to do with international law.
They would be really effective in WW II, or the civil war but the days of massed troop formation are over. Drones are far more lethal because they are targeted. I would not expect any kind of uptick in casualties on either side due to their use.
Notice napalm, which also looks just as terrifying, is hardly used anymore.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2023 6:32 utc | 283

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:24 utc | 282
George H Bush was in charge, and in charge during his son’s presidency too, and it could be argued during the Reagan administration as well.

Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2023 6:35 utc | 284

Biden will escalate to the dreaded weather balloons. Now those are scary!

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 8 2023 6:40 utc | 285

Ummm…No, it hasn’t been repeated every week since 1970. In fact, Germany was considered the bedrock of stability in Europe since at least the time of Gerhard Schroder up until recently.
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 5:52 utc | 270
You said Europe, only citing Germany as a sub-element. I don’t know why you’re now claiming you only meant Germany. Look back at your own comment.

Posted by: laguerre | Jul 8 2023 6:44 utc | 286

I think it’s important to remember that these cluster munitions were manufactured in the 1970s and 1980s, meaning the “newest” of them are ~40 years old.
Clearly, they’re going to have a much higher “dud rate” than whatever officials claim.

Posted by: Sam (in Tiraspol) | Jul 8 2023 6:46 utc | 287

So USA as per usual thinks we are all stupid and cant remember back to a whitehouse press briefing
Psaki in February 2022 declared that the use of cluster bombs is a war crime:
[There is information about the use of banned cluster and vacuum bombs by Russia. If so, what measures will the presidential administration take? Would that be considered a war crime?]
– “Yes, that is right. I have no evidence of their use. But, if they were used, it would potentially be a war crime”

Posted by: hankster | Jul 8 2023 6:50 utc | 288

NATO’s fake Christians won’t be happy about the Erdo-Putin summit in August. Wasn’t it Russia who warned Erdogan about an unfolding coup attempt several years ago?
Whenever Putin and Erdogan meet face to face, the air is usually thick with Chinese-style Mutual Respect.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 8 2023 7:06 utc | 289

Notice though how Medvedev is still at the center of things. And has grown from a Euro-centric Atlanticist, to roughly a hardcore Russian sovereigntist. Some say it’s political posturing. Could be. But to me his transformation feels genuine.
Posted by: Scuppers | Jul 8 2023 4:50 utc | 257
—-
I dunno if Russians would accept New Hawkish Medvedev as Pres after Putin. Medvedev would make Russia even more an enemy of the west. Gunna be very interesting to see who succeeds Putin … whenever.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 7:16 utc | 290

B this quote and link from Human Rights Watch it also says Russia is using cluster weapons!
“It is well documented, by Human Rights Watch”

Posted by: whitebeach | Jul 8 2023 7:19 utc | 291

>>>Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:24 utc | 282
I find the arguments over whether Bidet has dementia or is merely evil pointless. Bidet is not in charge. <<<

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 7:35 utc | 292

>>>Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 8 2023 6:24 utc | 282
I find the arguments over whether Bidet has dementia or is merely evil pointless. Bidet is not in charge. <<<

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 7:35 utc | 293

BBC might actually have a moments twinge of moral dilema . A moment im sure it will pass,
https://www.bbc.com/news/61079356
Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk, Tockha missile called a russian war crime , now lets ignore the obvious it was ukraine , but when its usa serial numbers on unexploded packets found in Donetsk civilian areas, they wont be able to spin that away. Well, they can ignore 10 yrs of shelling then put the few western journalists like Eva Bartlett on sanctions lists for reporting it, ignoring war crimes into the future isng too long a stretch to think.

Posted by: hankster | Jul 8 2023 7:45 utc | 294

As the thread ages – some points this Saturday morning after catching up with the interesting ( the sensible ones of course) opinions here. Thank you all who do this. Just to pick on two of the recent posts above because they are newest not any other particular reason.
@ Posted by: Babel-17 | Jul 8 2023 0:48 utc | 206
“Harris in before Biden’s term ends, and then run her as a sock puppet for Obama to control. That could work.
Anyway, Biden is a war mongering, barely walking, barely talking, piece of crap..”
– Obama and Clinton’s never gave up their control roles. There is footage last year of Joe bumbling around the WhiteHouse Garden while Barry holds court on the lawn, ignoring the dropping icecream slurping demented potus in name only.
@ Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2023 6:35 utc | 287
“George H Bush was in charge, and in charge during his son’s presidency too, and it could be argued during the Reagan administration as well.”
– Agreed, it goes way back, to his pappy , Prescott and likes of Joe Kennedy (yup he had both his son’s shot because they didn’t play the game). The Dulles bros didn’t come out of the blue and neither did their establishments of gangsterism, ultraviolence and fascist thuggery. Bush snr didn’t learn the trade from the bottom his daddy made him. And he was in on the kill. And he was mentor to the Clintons and the Obama fantasy.
They are exactly like Pepsi & Coke, sugary fizzy drinks no matter how much anyone thinks they are any different – the murderous gangsters and bankers who set forth the American Century to do to the rest of the world what they did to all the millions of natives of the lands they settled with the European diasporas.
Organised by the said same old Bandit , bloodthirsty Bankers.
These saccharine Demos and sugary Reps have been involved in the Punch and Judy act for 150 years now . There is only one puppeteer who does that show,, the script is the same , and the kids always say the same things and laugh as they watch the entertainment,
There is no difference between the Bush dynasty and the current wannabe mini Bush’s, which oversaw the original nazification of Germany and direct backing of Hitlers rise and his German ‘miracle’ post the Great Depression and hyper inflation (wholly engineered).
Ford , Carnegie, Rockefeller didn’t just rise by themselves and their Foundations and institutions didn’t just happen, neither did The Hollywood industry and Disney become the mass propagandists for that Club by chance or individual endeavour! That is the Great American Dream LIE. Built by the Bankers who have been the longest running crime and murder syndicate for many centuries.
THEY are the inhuman who lay claim on all the world and all its Peoples and Resources as some ancient hegemonic entitlement.
That ‘Game’ is finally over and this generation is their last. The world will finally be free of that eternal jackboot of theirs upon Humanity’s face.
Strange isn’t it? We in the Collective Waste are barely registering the puppeteer, while we happily enjoy the slapstick show. KNOWING they are only puppets.
That is some power over our perception, it’s genetically built into us. The Narrative Nudges and daily propaganda’s keep us sheep dipped and apathetic., watching the show and shouting ‘behind you’!
Have a happy weekend all summer is finally here.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 8 2023 7:47 utc | 295

2) Please explain why the exchange rate between two economic zones that are largely not trading with each other matters. Don’t hand wave and say that “it’s obvious” or whatever. Actually start with the definitions of GDP (pick whichever one you wish) and then step through the analysis, stating your assumptions. Based on your retort, I get the impression you do not fully (or even partially) understand how capital and trade accounts work.
Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Jul 8 2023 5:49 utc | 269
I conclude that your claim that Europe can’t continue is desperate cope.

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jul 8 2023 7:51 utc | 296

Now I’ll talk about the effectiveness of cluster bombs …. I would not expect any kind of uptick in casualties on either side due to their use.
Posted by: UWDude | Jul 8 2023 6:32 utc | 286

Agreed that they will have no meaningful military effect, but that is not the point. The US/Ukraine side are terrorists, their objective is to cause terror on civilians. Those cluster munitions – especially when over 40 years old – have low lethality on military objectives (99% of them do not come into contact with military objects of either side), but cause a very high level of permanent disability and death on civilians especially small children playing in the fields over the next 50 to 100 years. Many of the victims haven’t even been born yet.
Ukraine wants these munitions for firing at civilian targets. The US knows that, and is complicit.

Posted by: BM | Jul 8 2023 7:59 utc | 297

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jul 8 2023 7:51 utc | 301
I conclude that your claim that Europe can’t continue is desperate cope.
Your impressive mastery of both formal and informal logic shines for all to see.
Your unparalleled dominion over facts and synthesis into argument leaves us awed.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 8 2023 8:11 utc | 298

Just Published by RT:
8 Jul 2023 | 07:24 GMT
“Cluster munition deliveries to Ukraine could result in civilian casualties, a senior Pentagon official acknowledged on Friday, while stating that fears of Russian success on the battlefield outweigh these concerns.”
Oh
My
God
Such logic defies all human sanity.
It’s the old Albright rationale—“500,000 Iraqi children deaths are worth it as a price for this war”.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 8:28 utc | 299

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan just said that Ukraine “deserves” to join NATO.
What
A
Two-faced
Snake
is Erdogan.
Does he seriously mean to talk 100% contrary to the single greatest concern RF has about Ukraine neutrality? Or did he just lie to Zelensky’s face? How does this man sleep at night? If I was Putin, I’d be putting him in the Unfriendly Countries box. Yes, yes, I know Erdogan cares first about Turkey, and to that end leverages EVERYBODY against EVERYBODY. But that is just too blatant to stomach.
Btw, why does Erdogan suck up to Zelensky anyway? I would have thought Ukraine has nothing Turkey wants.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jul 8 2023 8:41 utc | 300