I think Putin may be trying to thread a needle. Of course he needs to win in Ukraine but it’s not in Russias interest to win too big. NATO is fundamentally stronger than Russia but only if they got their act together. I think it was Scott Ritter a few months ago reckoned that the US military would lose a fight with Russia for the first couple of rounds but that then they’d dump the diversity ant it would be a different story. But it’s not just the army it’s the whole of western society. Russia only wins while the west prioritises other stuff over competence. So for Russia the deal is to make sure they don’t sacrifice diversity. A senile man at the top and morons below is a gift from God to Russia that should not be spurned

Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Jul 22 2023 12:01 utc | 303

@DunGroanin
“Kissinger is pure evil. He can’t be alive still if he hasn’t benefited from the most modern secret medical developments. Including probably the missing organ donors of the borderlands..same goes for all these old bastards who seat at the Top Table of the Masters of Humanity.”
Well, they sacrifice hundreds of thousands of humans to an evil entity, and in return they are granted a long life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Idol_Moloch.jpg

Posted by: Apollyon | Jul 22 2023 12:17 utc | 305

@305 “As for Russian logistics, they are decades behind the West, ”
Yet, the West doesn’t have any 155 mm ammo left to supply Ukraine so they ship cluster bombs.
Producing ammunition to demand is certainly a major part of logistics so I, reluctantly, disagree with your above premise.

Posted by: canuck | Jul 22 2023 12:26 utc | 307

@UWDude #255:

After reading shadowbanned, i saw where those patriots were coming from, and thought, “fuck em.”

Maybe you should have read the “angry patriots” themselves to understand where they were coming from.

Posted by: S | Jul 22 2023 12:40 utc | 309

The US isn’t out of shells they just want to win.

Posted by: OohCanada | Jul 22 2023 12:56 utc | 311

The death of these journalists (and all the Russian soldiers and civilians who will die from cluster bombs) is entirely on Putin, for not stopping weapons transfers.
Posted by: shаdowbanned | Jul 22 2023 12:35 utc | 321

Absolutely. Everybody and their grandmother should have been able to see that Ukraine, being the terrorist state that it is, is going to use those cluster bombs on civilian targets. The protection of the those civilians was supposed to be the whole fucking point of the SMO, but Putin has done nothing but made it worse.
It should be obvious that ending the war and protecting Russian civilians means getting rid of the Kiev regime, but I am called a troll here in these very pages for pointing out the glaring truth.
How fucked up you fanboys are.

Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Jul 22 2023 13:02 utc | 313

The worst of the Biden bribery scandal to me is the Ukrainians used US taxpayer money to pay the bribes. I think every American politician that visited Ukraine scurried back with a bag of money probably after stopping at some off shore bank.

Posted by: PhCheese | Jul 22 2023 13:08 utc | 315

Re: The Mass deception – for the war on Russia

“The Information Warfare Community, originally known as the Information Dominance Corps, was created within the U.S. Navy in 2009 to more effectively and collaboratively lead and manage…. civilian professionals who possess extensive skills in information-intensive fields… It is tasked with developing and delivering dominant information capabilities in support of… national warfighting requirements.”
Source: https://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Information_Warfare_Community&oldid=3098783

Posted by: Toby C | Jul 22 2023 13:20 utc | 317

….. @DunGroanin
“Kissinger is pure evil. He can’t be alive still if he hasn’t benefited from the most modern secret medical developments. Including probably the missing organ donors of the borderlands..same goes for all these old bastards who seat at the Top Table of the Masters of Humanity………
Worth reposting

Posted by: Exile | Jul 22 2023 13:26 utc | 319

“I feel like vomiting.”
Posted by: shаdowbanned | Jul 22 2023 12:35 utc | 320
Sorry to read about your never ending nausea, I hope that a cure can be found for it soon. Is it habitual or is it a medical condition? Anyway go ahead spew away, there’s a few here who slurp it up and form a human cacophiliac virtuos circle with you , vomit ,slurp, vomit- slurp, vomit -sluuurrrrppp , yummy yummy.
Such refined gastronomic tastes must not be limited to the elite few Mr Creosotes and the deluded young girls who make a daily habit of it to stay deadly slim.
Better get a bucket! And a waffer thin mint to clear the palate. 🤨

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 22 2023 13:27 utc | 321

I just skip the posts of the obvious Empire shills. Yeah, why didn’t you stop me from punching your mom in the face? To which I respond shouldn’t you blame the person throwing the punch, not your mom for her face getting in the way of the fist?
It’s obviously weak one-sided projection. How fucked up indeed you nazis are.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 22 2023 13:43 utc | 323

The West is running out of everything actually, except bullshit.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 22 2023 13:46 utc | 325

Norske politiske
Jens Stoltenberg (2000-2014)
http://virksommeord.no/person/102/

Posted by: Oui | Jul 22 2023 13:56 utc | 327

This war is destroying the us$. It is priceless.
Posted by: libegafra | Jul 22 2023 12:58 utc | 312
—————-
Nice rebuttal.
Also has a chance to further expose sex trafficking, illegal organ transplantation, money laundering, bioweapon development etc.

Posted by: financial matters | Jul 22 2023 13:56 utc | 329

Scorpion 326
“my default suspicion is that the elites in the major countries have more in common with each other than they do with the ordinary people in the countries in which they live.”
They are totally intermarried. A single clan. This is reasonably well reported for royal families, just as true for financial families. Capital knows no borders.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 22 2023 14:00 utc | 331

@Glasshopper
Oryx is a Bellingcat spin-off, which is an Anglo-Dutch ‘independent research’ outfit tasked with manufacturing reports that suit the needs of their respective intelligence services. These reports are then fed to the mainstream media or decisionmakers as reliable and impartial. Basically, it is a public perception operation targeted both inward and outward. Oryx was launched practically overnight when the war started and is run by one guy (allegedly). He uses images taken from the front lines (although probably old images as well) to create the impression of huge Russian losses relative to Ukrainian ones. More attentive analysts noted that he uses tricks such as images of the same vehicle shot from several sides to add to the ‘body count’ or just misattributes the losses. The truth is that even honest analysts would have a hard time with counting losses in this war as both sides use a lot of the same platforms, have captured and/or repainted each other’s gear etc. etc. Oryx is anything but. It seems that the project has run its course and is being shut down.
Nobody knows what the real losses of each side are, but logic dictates that Ukrainian ones must be an order of magnitude higher. They have been hit by thousands of cruise missiles, bombs, artillery shells and are recently attacking static defenses. Waves upon waves of replacements from Soviet gear to Western weapons also tell the story of an army suffering high attrition. And that army had huge reserves at the start of the war too (obviously depleted as well). Russian losses are not negligible, but were at their worst in the botched first phase of the war and even then they weren’t terrible – just unnecessary (VDV teams getting wiped out in the assault on Kiev, expensive gear left by the roadside etc. etc.).

Posted by: Plebs | Jul 22 2023 14:24 utc | 333

UWDude, I live in a red part of California, or what we call Commiefuckya. Things are bad, but not as bad as our large cities. Luckily I had the foresight to own my property outright, or else I would be totally fucked. Even so, the county does it’s best to tax me out of existence. There’s still a lot of meth and fentanyl, but the cops (as bad as they are) do keep a lid on it. By the way, there’s not a lot of (racism) here. If you’re a good person, doesn’t matter what color you is.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Jul 22 2023 14:28 utc | 335

@Scorpion 326
I’ve known Russell Bentley for several years, on a personal level, to the extent that my girlfriend and I have a standing invitation to visit his home in Donetsk after the war is over. He started off as an extreme Putin supporter, one of the 5D chess lot, and got furious with me when I dismissed Putin as a Yeltsinite with better publicity who wouldn’t hesitate to throw the LDNR under the bus. However, over the last year he’s steadily moved towards my viewpoint, to the extent that after last September’s evacuation of Kharkov he agreed with me that Putin was attempting to do a Miloseviç as at the Republic of Serb Krajina by allowing such an overwhelming military disaster that the LDNR would have to be evacuated and a “peace agreement” signed. I have myself abandoned that idea since, in favour of Putin simply trying to keep his oligarchs’ profits as his primary concern. I don’t know if Russell has adjusted his views as well. I do know that he brought up the point that Putin’s failure to destroy the Dneiper bridges can be readily explained by his desire to protect the profits of his oligarch cronies who still have business investments in Ukranazistan.
Russell is an extremely fine man, but you have to remember that he’s right on the firing line and lives under threat 24 hours a day. I wouldn’t for one minute blame him for condemning Russia for not doing whatever it takes to make sure Ukranazistan is driven far, far away.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 22 2023 14:32 utc | 337

@dungroanin #300
My take on Kissinger is that he has been positioned as the backstop if this attempt at taking Russia today and China tomorrow fails again. They are used to failing. They just regather and go again with another generation. That’s why the madness persists over generations.
===================================================
That’s what I’ve been sort of looking for here. ‘They’ make moves, some of which enjoy easy progress, others of which encounter resistance. In the latter case, they pause, or regroup, or reconfigure, whatever. But they never quit unless they are executed, outlawed or stripped of possessions which rarely happens of course.
My ‘concern’ is that the West helped China rise again. Whether or not this would have happened without the Rothschild-Rockefeller linkages (two wings of same bird, I read long ago) can never be known now because they were made during Mao’s life (according to some) and that is that, we can’t go back.
I read in Menzies account of the delegation to Venice in 1434 that substantive, regular trade between Cairo and China had been in effect for at least six centuries at that point, i.e. since the 800’s and that there were many trading houses, principally Jewish, with large mansions in major Chinese cities, one in particular whose name I cannot now recall with their own protected area, extremely wealthy and influential. Those ties have been all but scrubbed from history so much so that most will believe this large 1434 delegation is a fiction unless you go through an extensive account of it. (Somebody scrubbed that from history, which is interesting in itself.)
I don’t really subscribe to an ‘it’s the Jews’ theory, rather ‘it’s a hidden hand’ theory in that many of the major power networks in world history not only are multi-generational but also occluded and they use both family and merit-based connections to recruit and further their lineages and more likely are linked by secret cult ritual or some such than ethnic or national ties. (I don’t know and don’t care.) Some parts of the power networks that always exist in all polities are visible and other parts are invisible. This is almost like a law of nature.
Presumably sometimes those hidden hands can even be benevolent and enriching to all classes but usually it seems that those with a yen for power-playing multi-generationally tend to overplay their hand and tend to accrue more than their fair share and tend to need being taken down a peg or two though this is never easy since they are often so well protected and hidden and, because they work in the dark, rarely accountable which tends to increase their proclivity for self-enrichment of course.
So I am always suspect with current geopolitics of this hidden hand principle and the degree to which there are hidden ties between the Chinese, Russian and Western hidden hand networks for example right now. Just as large parts of earlier history and long-standing ties have been scrubbed from our collective history, so also deep ties may even now be well hidden. For example, with the Admiral He voyage, that got scrubbed by the Mandarin class which successfully persuaded the Emperors to pull back from expansive policies and retreat behind the Wall, so to speak, which in turn gave an opening to Western pirates to go further and plunder more than otherwise they would have been able to do and contributed – though did not entirely cause – the rise of the West. No small thing. Scrubbed.
To this day in China, I gather, official history is that He only made it to Africa or some such. In China there is an Admiral He historical society which was excited by Menzies books 10 years ago because their research had led them to the same conclusion and when they compared notes both came away convinced of full circumnavigation and complete maps having been effected. But it is still unofficial, not recognized history. (Not sure why they still don’t want to change the story.)
If China had been more active in Central America, for example, after making their maps from surveys conducted there in 1420-22 instead of retiring from world affairs, the whole sorry business with the 1500’s gold rush which murdered so many there might never have happened. The point is that many big, earth-changing things ongoing are unseen or written out afterwards and then regarded as quaint fable years later – if they are even regarded at all. (For all we know, the reason for the pulling-back policy may have been negotiated between the wealthy trading families in Cairo and China with the Emperors and Mandarins – and corrupt Popes too for that matter. Hence hidden.)
So when someone like Kissinger goes to China again, something is afoot. And we will probably never know what. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of shift soon if the two (rival) sides have either made a mutual accommodation (which my Yi Cast clearly indicated with Hexagram #57 The Gentle but…) or have (as partners) agreed upon adjusted strategic shift based on recent results – like perhaps how many years from now they can effect a new political system in the West based on what’s been happening of late or some such.
OK, that was too long so I’ll stay a way for a while so as not to overpost.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 22 2023 14:35 utc | 339

Suppressing those who are reporting the problems leads to suppressing information about the problems. Suppressing information about the problems prevents the Russian society from being able to help with these problems—whether through public outcry, or by donating to volunteers or by volunteering personally. Therefore, people who are attacking those who are reporting the problems are, knowingly or unknowingly, working for the enemy. They like to present themselves as the virtuous guardians of Russia who are trying to stop a “patriotic Maidan,” but, as is well-known, fanaticism always turns even the best intentions into evil.

Posted by: S | Jul 22 2023 14:35 utc | 341

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Jul 22 2023 14:24 utc | 334
Please don’t make the mistake so many westerners make:
Seeking to identify one and only one reason why a given catastrophe happens.
The Empire works by exploiting the existing weaknesses and tensions within a system whatever they may be.
Their academics, their military think-tanks (the effective ones) carefully study and evaluate these weaknesses and apply pressure along multiple vectors be it technological, political, cultural, financial, psychological and even spiritual domain seeking to collapse key pillars in the structure until over time the combined effect of the system’s own internal contradictions amplified by external catalysts lead to the defeat of the entire system.
This is how the cold war was really fought, how the USSR dissolved as a unified political body and how Russia almost succumbed to Western domination … almost, but for V.V Putin.
This is again how the new cold war is being fought.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 22 2023 14:45 utc | 343

jared | Jul 22 2023 14:35 utc | 340
***Grow tired of Mercouris’ watered down reports and Simplicius narrow analysis. What we need is video by atrractive women review events of the day referencing map for perspective – could use ua map.***
Not so heavyweight, but for a change — and attractive woman with a pleasant voice — you could take a look at the “Russian Diplomat” channel (she’s actually a journalist) on Telegram.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 22 2023 14:58 utc | 345

Posted by: james | Jul 21 2023 15:28 utc | 27
I never post links to MSM stories here because I know ahead of time people here won’t give a second to them. But the thing is, if MSM media is so irrelevent, why should we care about what’s on the front pages of these newspapers then?…”
Because those newspapers are the transmission train of the deep state.

Posted by: Bilejones | Jul 22 2023 15:08 utc | 347

@ uwdude – thanks for your posts…
@ Milites | Jul 22 2023 10:54 utc | 292
good post.. thanks…
@ Bilejones | Jul 22 2023 15:08 utc | 348
what you are highlighting is not the content in the post @ 27… not sure why you are doing that.. regarding the content, i shared this earlier – propaganda multiplier… check it out if you haven’t already… the image of the hierarchy just down from the top of the article sums it up well..
The Propaganda Multiplier

Posted by: james | Jul 22 2023 15:14 utc | 349

short questions re: grain deal.
officially it was about cheap grain for the poor.
The EU never fulfilled its part and never lifted sanctions on the RU bank intended for that kind of trade.
But why did they need the RU bank, why not use a UKR instead?
Why involve the RUs at all?
Because they control the waters?
Practically RU grain couldn´t be traded because of those sanctions on transport and banking.
So how did payments happen all those months?
What was different in July to cease the deal in comparison to all the year before?
Eventually the deal achieved what?
If RU manages to deliver enough grain to the poor, what´s lost?
Again only regarding the official lingo.
thx

Posted by: AG | Jul 22 2023 15:30 utc | 351

… the reason for the pulling-back policy may have been negotiated between the wealthy trading families in Cairo and China with the Emperors and Mandarins – and corrupt Popes too for that matter. Hence hidden.
Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 22 2023 14:35 utc | 339
Sassoons.

Posted by: KR2 | Jul 22 2023 15:40 utc | 353

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 22 2023 14:58 utc | 346
The community of realists needs one of the analysts I used to respect and follow to break ranks and tell it how it is. So much professional betrayal these past three years, sigh.

Posted by: Milites | Jul 22 2023 15:46 utc | 355

Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Jul 22 2023 12:01 utc | 303
> … it’s not in Russias interest to win too big. NATO is fundamentally stronger than Russia but only if they got their act together.
One of the few intelligent commentators here. USA continues to be a manufacturing colossus, and joined with its Allies it could easily overwhelm Russia. Of course, Russia is backed by its allies (China, Iran, North Korea, plus the central Asian countries that get swept along if Russia and China are allied) but those allies can’t be fully relied upon. Also, USA and allies have cutting edge AI abilities that could be used to produce devastating drones. Self driving cars were operating on California highways 10 years ago. Russia absolutely does not want to waken the sleeping giant that is the USA and allies.
Guys like shadowbanned give advice that could lead to precisely the collapse regime in Russia that USA wants. Slow but steady is the right approach.

Posted by: Revelo | Jul 22 2023 15:51 utc | 357

Something else is amiss:
https://sonar21.com/putin-issues-stark-warning-to-poland-and-nato/
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/07/why-some-polish-agitation.html
Both make note of Putin’s threat to Poland et al. in regards to Belarus, whom Russia will defend due to its ‘Union State’ allied status. If that is not news to me, one wonders to which Nato decision makers that would be news to, exactly.
What is news to me though, is Putin clearly stating that Russia will not interfere if Polish/Lithuanian or other Nato troops enter Western Ukraine. Putin even suggests those lands could end up being part of Poland once again. That means Nato has expanded West right up to Russia’s border, presumably.
So in order to get his landbridge to Crimea, it seems Putin is not bothered to trade some land gained in exchange for and extra ±3,000 kms of direct border with Nato, when one includes Finland?? I am a bit baffled by how this benefits Russia, particularly when it publicly stated before invading that it wanted Nato much further to the West.
This is just one of the weird and inconsistent ways in which Russia conducts policy and communicates.
Denazify and Demilitarize Ukraine… by allowing in Nato? What happened to needing a buffer zone then? Has a deal already been done with Poland that we don’t know about? Is there a part of the plan where Nato’s article 5 will be proven to be an empty promise, or is Russia preparing for decades of even higher military bills for escalated tensions right up to its borders?

Posted by: Et Tu | Jul 22 2023 16:13 utc | 359

Posted by: Revelo | Jul 22 2023 15:51 utc | 359
it does not continue to be a manufacturing colossus, it exported too much of its manufacturing. i dont think the US is on the cutting edge of AI, either, unless you include stuff that doesn’t work well, like self driving cars.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 22 2023 16:16 utc | 361

Nobody knows what the real losses of each side are, but logic dictates that Ukrainian ones must be an order of magnitude higher. They have been hit by thousands of cruise missiles, bombs, artillery shells and are recently attacking static defenses.
Posted by: Plebs | Jul 22 2023 14:24 utc | 333
Not sure if this works, but: has anybody tried to estimate losses from #of shells fired, kill rate and %casualtues from artillery?
From memory:
– Russia fires +/- 20000 shells per day, Ukraine 3500
– kill rate for artillery is typically around 1/2 for cluster ammo, between 5&50 for standard ammo (1 soldier killed for every 5/50 artillery granades fired).
That would add up to 400-4000 losses on Ukraine’s side per day, 70-700 for Russia. 200k-2m for Ukraine, 35-350k for Russia. Probably a third more due to soldiers dying from other causes than artillery shells.
Unless Russians or Ukrainian are exceptionally bad shots – 50 shells would be lot to kill one soldier – casualties are likely much higher than the numbers currently discussed.

Posted by: Marvin | Jul 22 2023 16:24 utc | 363

as so often the tragedy with the end of the ussr wasnt an internal tragedy. Very few wanted the system to continue as it was.
The tragedy was the impact of the breakdown for the rest of the world. The existence of the ussr confined the US oligarchy internally as well as on the world stage. The existence of the USSR gave smaller countries room to manouver, because they could always threaten to turn to the ussr if the empire went too far. Same goes for western societies. It was the threat of french or italien society turning to the USSR that made their concerns heard and considered by their elites.
With the end of the USSR the big mafia had no reason to consider any other needs than its own any more. The mafia did what it wanted to do because it could.
A situation like that hasnt occured since the end of the roman empire. I mean the british or spanish or portuguese empires were never uncontested. There always were somewhat smaller but still competing powers like france, the dutch, the russians etc.

Posted by: Orgel | Jul 22 2023 16:28 utc | 365

261:
Poland and Lithuania annexing western parts of Ukraine. Pro’s for Russia far outweigh the con’s. There would go the Nato’s unity and pure greed would be exposed to the world.

Posted by: Catilina | Jul 22 2023 16:42 utc | 367

Putin does not want to deal with the lunatics in western Ukraine.
If the Polacks and Lithuanians will take them go ahead. And good luck.
Poland and Lithuania taking over Western Ukraine would be a win for Russia at this point.
But they need to consolidate the land mass uniting Odessa with Russia and all the way to their enclave by Moldova. So still lots of work to be done.
But western Ukraine? Hell no. Take that. Anyone.

Posted by: Comandante | Jul 22 2023 16:55 utc | 369

Posted by: Comandante | Jul 22 2023 16:55 utc | 373
Putin said they won’t interfere if Poland wants to take western Ukraine. But Putin said also that they have assumption of Polish plans (some sort of intel) that Poland would also like to take a slice of Belarus, in which case Russia will retaliate against Poland with every means available.
My guess is Poland taking part of western Ukraine will also work in favor of Russia in the sense that it removes the plausible-liability platform called Ukraine, and all the attacks originating from western Ukraine will be Poland’s responsibility. So that things a lot easier, when it comes to planning things.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 22 2023 17:07 utc | 371

shаdowbanned @321:

The death of these journalists (and all the Russian soldiers and civilians who will die from cluster bombs) is entirely on Putin, for not stopping weapons transfers.

The blame for the deaths lies with the the Ukrainian Nazis and the Empire of Delusions that created those Nazis (they are not a natural occurrence) and trained, armed, financed, and empowered them. Putin is not the one doing the killing.
On the other hand, those deaths certainly belong on Putin’s conscience. It is foolish to assume one can discipline a rabid dog; that one can reason with a creature, or indeed a whole society, that has lost its ability to reason. The West isn’t even interested in reason anymore. They are at the witch hunt level of mindless hysteria. All of western society is in stampede mode, with all of the abilities of cognition and reflection that implies. You cannot expect empathy or compassion from a stampede. You cannot reason with a stampede. You cannot pull the ignorant and infantile Gandhi approach and stop the stampede by lying down in front of it. “Turning the other cheek” will have no impact on the stampede. No amount of self-sacrifice will impress the stampede. There is absolutely nothing in the entirety of liberal philosophy that can help you in the face of the stampede. You can only redirect the stampede, and that would take a whole bunch of dynamite being thrown in front of it. Sure, that would result in the destruction of lots of cattle, and in the larger scheme of things each of those bovines are individually innocent of the destruction they are causing, but that innocence is no excuse for ineffective half measures.
We can hope for the exhaustion of the stampede/final collapse of the US$ to save humanity, But that remains something that is not in the immediate future.
This doesn’t end until the West is defeated one way or the other. We can pray for the West to defeat itself as its internal contradictions economically and socially shatter it, but that is hardly a proactive approach. That is just hoping the rabid dog that is attacking dies of its disease before it gets its fangs in your throat. If Putin is unwilling to proactively do what is needed to defeat the West, then he may as well lead the dissolution of the Russian Federation now and save lots of lives and treasure (for the global oligarchs), just as his predecessors did with the Soviet Union. Go on TV and call for a national referendum on how best to divide up the federation and which parts should go to which international oligarch factions. And then perhaps one of the choices in the referendum could be “Full mobilization”.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 22 2023 17:09 utc | 373

#359
“USA continues to be a manufacturing colossus,”
What about the colossal debt? Once the us$ is down, what will remain? What about the corruption which leads to manufacture submarines like the f35?
” and joined with its Allies it could easily overwhelm Russia.”
No. No way. Russia has unstoppable missiles. And lots of nuclear weapons. And the people of the nato countries are cowards.
“Of course, Russia is backed by its allies (China, Iran, North Korea, plus the central Asian countries that get swept along if Russia and China are allied) but those allies can’t be fully relied upon.”
Only in your dreams.
“Also, USA and allies have cutting edge AI abilities that could be used to produce devastating drones.”
LOL. Yes, could. Where are they? Not yet in Ukraine? For the time being, it is Russia who is producing them. Not to speak of the hyper-sonic missiles.
“Self driving cars were operating on California highways 10 years ago.”
LOL. And? They will intercept the hyper-sonic missiles?
“Russia absolutely does not want to waken the sleeping giant that is the USA and allies.”
The giant is crumbling under its debt and corruption and lies, lead by an Alzheimer and Parkinson old man. The giant is very afraid to be destroyed.

Posted by: libegafra | Jul 22 2023 17:29 utc | 375

@ Posted by: Catilina | Jul 22 2023 16:42 utc | 370
“There would go the Nato’s unity and pure greed would be exposed to the world.”
Coming to the aid of Ukraine with the brave contribution of 2 forefront Nato allies standing up to Russia and succeeding, ie by ‘stopping’ Putin before the Polish border, would be a great PR gain and fine example of Nato unity and a ‘win’ they could sell to the public.
As for your second point, if only ‘the world’ hadn’t already been given ample chance to be exposed to Nato’s greed before, as it bombed Serbia, invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, destroyed Libya, occupied Syria… helped starve Yemem, to name the highlights.
Russia risking its military, physical security for a flimsy chance of bad PR by the undisputed hegemons of PR spin, is just absurd.
I think Putin is looking to pimp Ukraine off to Poland. In exchange for Russia recognizing the new hybrid state, he will ask for his new gains to be recognized as part of Russia, first and foremost Crimea of course, and whatever landbridge he can manage to either conquer or trade for peace.
They are likely held up negotiating with the US over military structures and deployments, ie no new ones in West Ukraine for sure, ideally much further West as per Dec 2021 ‘ultimatum’, and sanctions, ie, no more. This will go on for a while yet, until more and more Nato powers will see their leverage slipping with every passing day and they all agree on their collective stop loss position.
The big loser will be Germany. The last thing it needs is a strong emerging Poland/Lithuania?/Ukraine next door, armed to its teeth and with an extra 15-20? million angry Slavs, but we already saw how much respect and consideration the Germans got in Nato with NS2… their feckless collective non-reaction has only invited more of the same. The Intermarium alliance has been a think tank project for some time, perhaps Russia has long term ideas about leveraging it as buffer state once Nato fractures further, who knows.
With China still the main game, all of this suits the US just fine as a worst case, mutually agreeable exit plan with Russia, and that is all that counts. Everyone got rich as they move onto the next racket.

Posted by: Et Tu | Jul 22 2023 17:41 utc | 377

“USA continues to be a manufacturing colossus”
Someone did a Rip Van Winkle and fell asleep in the 70s, only waking up now.
This is pure and utter BS. Take a drive through Detroit, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland, and let me know how many steel mills you find.
Almost all the heavy manufacturing moved offshore in the 80’s. There is little left in the US, except some light specialty manufacturing. A few of the big 3 automakers have operations still going in the CONUS, but many of the parts needed for the supply chain are manufactured abroad, including Mexico, Vietnam, and other foreign nations. The US decided long ago not to have a strong manufacturing base, so as to export pollution and avoid strong labor laws at home thru offshoring.
China is a manufacturing colossus. Take your ignorance elsewhere.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jul 22 2023 17:47 utc | 379

The goal is to de-militarize Ukraine and have NATO renegotiated to previous levels (or weakened and discredited). Blowing up NATO weapon materiel gathered in warehouses where you have air superiority and no trigger to NATO retaliation seems more logical than blowing up transport corridors and losing sight of how they’ll be smuggled in next. Further it does less harm to civilian supplies to destroy weapon warehouses than transport corridors, which is important to avoid logistical catastrophes like larger mass migrations and siege-like starvation on grand scale.
No shadowbanned, I am not convinced your concerns and solution is the best way to go here. Logistics seen in a multi-faceted perspective is important instead. Or to invoke Western buzzwords, “It’s Intersectional!”

Posted by: titmouse | Jul 22 2023 18:09 utc | 381

shаdowbanned @321:
The death of these journalists (and all the Russian soldiers and civilians who will die from cluster bombs) is entirely on Putin, for not stopping weapons transfers.
The blame for the deaths lies with the Ukrainian Nazis and the Empire of Delusions that created those Nazis (they are not a natural occurrence) and trained, armed, financed, and empowered them. Putin is not the one doing the Killing
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 22 2023 17:09 utc | 373
————————————————————–
William, your point is well taken but I think the lion’s share of the blame belongs to US President Joe Biden and the ruling class faction that backs him. The proxy war in Ukraine did not have to happen, diplomacy by Joe Biden could have prevented it.
Also, the 2014 Maidan coup did not have to happen, it was NOT a popular revolution, it was a deliberate attack against the sovereignty of the people of Ukraine, committed buy the Obama / Biden administration, backed by the same faction of the ruling class that supports Biden today.
It is important to realize that inter class struggle is just as real and pervasive as the struggle between classes. And, by the way, since is has been brought up as a subject here on this very thread. The collapse of the USSR was in large part a product of a vicious inter-class by the (so called) representatives of the Russian working class, where on side joined forces with the enemy of the Russian and the international working class to defeat socialism.
The tragedy of the collapse of the USSR is NOT that it succumbed to international capitalism that was bound to happen because Western capitalism was able to force the USSR to waste precious resources on wars and national security, while the leadership of the Russian CP had been taken over by selfish criminal elements, who have been compromised by the US and Western Europe, using bribes and opportunities to live comfortably in the west.
The real tragedy is that the failure of the USSR set back the struggle against the exploitation of international capitalism by at least one hundred years or more, the result being a unipolar capitalist dictatorship which must be overcome before meaningful class struggle can resume: The fissures within the capitalist ruling class are the place to start.

Posted by: Ed | Jul 22 2023 18:44 utc | 383

@Ed | Jul 22 2023 18:44 #383
The collapse of socialism in the CCCP wasn’t because of misallocation of resources into national security. One can easily make the argument that the CCCP’s investment in its’ national security attenuated US military aggression. The real tragedy was that even though the CCCP won WWII, they did so at great cost in ideological dilution. ~30 million KIA, some of whom must have been ideologically strong party members, weakened the party and allowed revisionists/Trotskyists, like Krushchev to gain control. The tragedy is that the party wasn’t able to see through and resist revisionism, nor maintain a proletarian dictatorship.
It makes no sense to say “…that the failure of the USSR set back the struggle against the exploitation of international capitalism…” As long as there’s capitalism, there will be exploitation. The blame for workers not struggling against our exploiters can only be attributed to our refusal to understand specific conditions in our specific countries. The greatest contribution that US workers could have made to thank Russian workers for defeating the nazies would have been by liberating ourselves from exploitation from our exploiters. It was the US bourgeoisie who promoted and financed the nazies in Germany and Japan, hoping that they would have destroyed the Soviets. The only contribution that makes sense is for US workers to deal with their bourgeoise class. It was noble for some to fight in Spain, but what did it actually achieve? The best support workers in the US can give to workers in other countries is to take responsibility for the struggle, or lack of it, in their own house….

Posted by: zeke2u | Jul 22 2023 19:44 utc | 385

“It makes no sense to say “…that the failure of the USSR set back the struggle against the exploitation of international capitalism…” As long as there’s capitalism, there will be exploitation. The blame for workers not struggling against our exploiters can only be attributed to our refusal to understand specific conditions in our specific countries.”
Posted by: zeke2u | Jul 22 2023 19:44 utc | 385
————————————————–
Thank you zeke2u for your response so late in this thread. I do agree with your statement as stated above. But don’t forget that Marx pointed out that under socialism (as opposed to communism) bourgeois forms of enterprises must still exist as society tries to transform itself from a capitalist dictatorship to a proletarian society. So, bourgeois exploitation will continue for some unknown period though it will (must) be controlled. This will of course result in the loud cries from the former members of the capitalist dictatorship that they are the ones being “exploited.”
The slave owners in the Southern United States also howled like dogs in pain when their salves were taken from them after the Civil War, though wage slavery replaced them to the delight of most of the bourgeois industrial class.

Posted by: Ed | Jul 22 2023 20:40 utc | 387

Posted by: KR2 | Jul 22 2023 15:40 utc | 353
… the reason for the pulling-back policy may have been negotiated between the wealthy trading families in Cairo and China with the Emperors and Mandarins – and corrupt Popes too for that matter. Hence hidden.
Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 22 2023 14:35 utc | 339
Sassoons.
=============================
The Pope at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Eugene_IV
First to create Jewish ghettos, more than a century before they became official. I read years ago that these were originally requested by the Jews so that they could have their own jurisdictions, including Courts. Their requests were granted. This Pope was born in Venice. Clearly a power player. Tussled with Portuguese claiming Canaries. Going around the African bulge was a big breakthrough which soon led to making it to Madagascar etc. though as reported earlier there was frequent travel between Egypt India and China for centuries making most of the exploration stories we have heard highly suspect. (Columbus had a map, for example, and knew how to navigate through and past several key islands the first time encountering them.)
I wonder what was really discussed with that Chinese top-level delegation that it later had to be scrubbed. I didn’t finish Menzies book yet about that conference, but I doubt he found out. Just uncovering it at all was quite a journalist-historian coup, moreover one which, for whatever reasons, has been instantly buried again and the author dismissed as a kook.
Like most critics of regimes today.
Great remark above by S and others about the value of criticism. Of course not all is constructive but reflexively defending against any and all is harmful as well. Another aspect is that if you end up taking a side in any ongoing controversy you quickly develop confirmation bias which is a self-reinforcing tendency. I think this always ends up in a somewhat blinded and extreme POV even if there are excellent reasons for picking that side. All nations and large groups have mixes of good and bad which vary over time especially with ever-changing circumstance. That which might have made sense or been morally right for the SMO last year may no longer make sense or be morally right today.
And so it goes…
Great article, great discussion.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 22 2023 21:39 utc | 389

And the mortality was confined in the main to the 65 plus age cohorts.
Obesity and co morbidities were significantly represented in the mortality figures as well.
Posted by: jpc | Jul 21 2023 22:36 utc | 168
yep. documented over and over again. https://covidhonesty.com/

Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 23 2023 0:08 utc | 391

Re:
21 JUL, 05:06
“Russian forces drop leaflets on Ukrainian positions calling for surrender
Posted by: Trubind1 | Jul 22 2023 1:18 utc | 199
I’d think that a mistake. Largely a fruitless exercise. Self defeating as its mere appearance as a ‘call to surrender’ excites an immediate antipathy and aversion.
Better to propagandise them with leaftlets urging them to think rationally about some clear facts for instance:
they have lost half a million dead – maybe a million injured?
that they have NOTHING to gain. What can a soldier gain? Satisfaction at having ethnically cleansed Donbas?
that there is NO ‘russian invasion’, not now, not since ’22. The fight on Donbas land as a continuation of their ’14 invasion.
that Kiev is selling out their country – millions of acres sold and more destined to be sold
that peace now leave Kiev Ukrainians with their land, Donbas Ukrainians with theirs – what ordinary man isn’t happy with that?
that the ONLY people profiting is US MIC and they are rolling in it.
that EVERY ‘help’ from the US has to be paid for.
that Kiev is replete with scoundrels, rogues, liars, criminals.
that the people of Europe are similarly being hoodwinked, cheated, oppressed.
SO: turn on Kiev and take control of your own country.
See? Urge them not to ‘give up’, not to ‘surrender’, but to fight, in their own interest. Take back their country from the US, from Kiev.
Much better way to go to my mind.

Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 23 2023 0:34 utc | 393

Posted by: arthur brogard | Jul 23 2023 0:34 utc | 393
Ever heard of the International Republican Institute? Wutabout USAID? OK. What do ya get when they put their heads together? IRI | Eighth Annual Ukrainian Municipal Survey

*The map represents territories that were under control of the Ukrainian government before February 24, 2022. Due to the Russian occupation of Crimea and ongoing conflict in the East of Ukraine, citizens of Simferopol, Donetsk, and Luhansk did not participate in the survey. This also includes two cities that were covered in previous waves, Mariupol and Sievierodonetsk. These areas are depicted in dark gray.
**Kherson was excluded from the sample in 2023 due to the security situation that made face to face surveying impossible (light gray).[p 1]
[…]
• The data was collected in 21 cities in Ukraine (Kyiv and oblast centers where the safety situation allowed the survey to be conducted) between April 21 and May 22, 2023 through face-to-face interviews at the respondents’ homes.
• The sample consisted of n=16,800 permanent residents of Ukraine aged 18 and older.
• In order to obtain this representative sample, 800 respondents were interviewed in each city regardless of population size. The geographical coverage of the city area was based on the electoral districts established by the Central Election Commission of Ukraine. Random route and “next birthday” rule were used to select respondents.
[…]
• The 2015, 2016, 2017 surveys were funded by the Government of Canada. The 2018 survey was funded by the National Endowment for Democracy. The 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2023 surveys were funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).
[p 6-7 “Detailed Methodology”]

Check out IRI-USAID | MOOD OF THE AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC OF CRIMEA, biennial field surveys 2009-2013 collection
and the Razumkov Center’s Crimea in the Public Opinion of Ukrainians, 2018.
state of the art, man.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 23 2023 3:21 utc | 395

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 22 2023 14:32
& Cynic.
Thxs for yr posts,esp. about Russell. This was a long thread and I skipped a few parts it seems.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 23 2023 14:01 utc | 397

Posted by: shаdowbanned | Jul 21 2023 17:18 utc | 76
What do you think Stalin would have done with Strelkov, Alksnis, Kvachkov?
As Russia faces an existential threat from NATO, now is not the time for backseat drivers. There is a chain of command to report concerns, which certainly should not be broadcast on social media. As for those who repeatedly voice ‘concern’ for Russian strategy here, I suspect that the aim is just the same, to divide and weaken Russia internally.
You lack subtlety shadowbanned, you jump on every potential negative news media and attempt to amplify it as a problem for Russia, while during the infamous Ukrainian counter-offensive of June 4th to 21st when the Russian defences held strong and crushed all Ukrainian attacks, you were nowhere to be seen.
The Russian leadership is well aware of the goals and activities of fifth column propagandists:
https://tass.com/world/1651091

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jul 24 2023 13:52 utc | 399