Battle For Robotyne – Ukraine Open Thread 2023-178

July 26, 2023

It seems that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have had a bad day so far.

Yesterday they made another reconnaissance attack on Robotyne, south of Orkiv. It cost them 2 tanks. This morning they launched a much bigger attack in which at least three motorized battalions with tanks took part. They managed to get to the north-east end east of Robotyne but did not enter the town.

According to the Russian Ministry of Defense the attack cost the Ukrainian army 22 tanks, 10 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles and one armored combat vehicle. Several of these losses have been confirmed by drone videos from the region.

Over 100 Ukrainians were killed or wounded during that attack alone. The Ukrainian forces are retreating.

Yesterday the Ukrainian forces lost a total 20 artillery pieces. It is only the second time during the 50+ days of the Ukrainian counter-offensive that this level was reached. The losses included 5 2S1 Gvozdika self propelled howitzer, 3 Polish made Krab self propelled howitzer, 3 M-777 howitzer and several other types of bigger guns.

The Ukrainian friendly LiveUAmap shows Robotyne in Ukrainian hand.

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However, even the Ukrainian Defense Ministry made no such claim. According to various Russian sources the town is still in Russian hands.

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Use this thread as open thread related to Ukraine.

An open thread for other issues can be found here.

Posted by on July 26, 2023 at 14:42 UTC | Permalink

Comments

@Tim 3 post 194
Posted by: young | Jul 26 2023 19:05 utc | 111 “Alexander Mercouris has also indicated Russia canceled the wheat deal due to disguised vessels carrying military equipment.”
If mistake here, it’s mine not Young’s. He’s posting what I said way back in the thread. I’ve lost the link to the Mercouris podcast for this. I recall clearly his saying it however, so either he was guessing or I’ve got it wrong somehow.
Apologies.

Posted by: botete | Jul 27 2023 2:44 utc | 201

Birth of a multipolar world: The Russia-Africa summit begins today in St. Petersburg. Despite enormous pressure from the US & EU on African countries to not attend, 49 out of 54 African countries are attending the conference.
‘Today, Africa is asserting itself more confidently as one of the poles of the emerging multipolar world.’-Vladimir Putin.
https://twitter.com/GUnderground_TV/status/1684150327350525952
Does Twitter’s new logo look like an Anti-Tank device?

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jul 27 2023 2:54 utc | 202

There are posters on here who argue that no it can not have been stupidity – the deep state or the powers that be or the military or wall st or whoever are really wise and in control. They have a PLAN.
My view is that they are just stupid and driven by ideology and confirmation bias.
Posted by: watcher | Jul 26 2023 23:00 utc | 172
Some people derive comfort in believing that there is always “a plan,” even if it is an evil plan. To them, the idea that life is an unplanned hodgepodge of dynamically interactive, emotionally driven personalities creates a kind of apprehension – fear of the irrational and unpredictable. For them, there must be some form of directive agency to explain everything. Belief in Man or God. Belief in God – or a higher power – is really a hope that there is “somebody up there” who can regulate base human nature in some manner – whether here or in the afterlife, when the balance sheet for deficits on Earth will be set right. “God, save us from ourselves.” You believe in this higher power, or you don’t. But if you choose not to believe in God, don’t put your trust in the great plans of mice and men – because most in power positions are as foolish as the rest of us. Better to protect yourself in a God-less world by becoming a skeptical and cynical SOB and believing in yourself.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 27 2023 3:16 utc | 203

@ Sam | Jul 27 2023 1:33 utc | 193
thanks.. bozo is a part of the same neo con clan… brain dead eton waste… its amazing how the brits have a talent for choosing leaders that are always circling the drain… the new guy is circling a different type of drain..

Posted by: james | Jul 27 2023 3:35 utc | 204

An American mercenary in the Azov Battalion, Justin Bans, gave an interview. He joined the Azov intelligence unit, made up entirely of Americans.
When he arrived there, he learned that his commander and associates adhered mainly to Nazi ideology:
– There are still many neo-Nazis in the Azov battalion. There are so many of them that it’s even ridiculous how common it is in Azov, how common it is.
-… the commander of my company connected his laptop to a huge TV, and he had a photo of Adolf Hitler on his desktop.
+video
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1683790076193411072
On one of my rare trips into Twitter – just to check out the anti-tank logo!

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jul 27 2023 3:42 utc | 205

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 27 2023 3:16 utc | 203
I mean…I’m definitely with you, but when you have (and forgive me for the recency bias here) “7 countries in 7 years” or the fact that they were already planning the Korean War when WWII was winding down, or the continued repeating pattern of “blowback” whereby some former realpolitik enemy-of-my-enemy comes back at just the right convenient time for the same actors to pop up on the kabuki stage and throw (a different section of) the world into chaos…..and the same old bankers, corporations and their families benefiting again and again and again….in just the past 60 years alone….
Well, you know where I’m going. Some of it simply has to be planned. Not that every plan is meticulously laid out in the utmost of detail only to see the results play forth in exactly the right manner, but perhaps a little more…loose, amirite? There are certain trigger points and actions that almost always result in certain consequences that benefit some and hurt others. The degree of specificity and success varies, but some of this shit has been planned! and some of it is just “let’s see what our plan does and then plan again once it does so that we can keeeeeep benefiting!”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 27 2023 4:07 utc | 206

I was under the impression that the Emigre stories of 19th century pogroms has been shown to be little more than ethno-centric urban legend.

Posted by: Exile | Jul 27 2023 4:10 utc | 207

sean the leprechaun | Jul 27 2023 2:04 utc | 197–
That’s been an issue with me ever since I discovered the truth of the matter. I did what I could to minimize my input into that subsidy and I informed many who also did their best to do the same. I got mad as hell long ago and have come to grips with the immorality and criminality me and millions more are forced to participate in. Of course, I don’t like it one bit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I’ve written about this moral dilemma here before and mused about solving it. Yes, you become inured to it, and I’m sure it’s part of my hypertension issue as it never leaves my subconscious. If I had the resources to take my extended family out of the Empire to somewhere better, I would; but I don’t, so I remain and do what I can to beat the Beast.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 4:15 utc | 208

Posted by: Julian | Jul 27 2023 2:07 utc | 199
Always some useless idiot to take the bait…

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 27 2023 4:17 utc | 209

….. If I had the resources to take my extended family out of the Empire to somewhere better, I would; but I don’t, so I remain and do what I can to beat the Beast.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 4:15 utc | 208……
Sell the house and you’ll have more than enough left over to buy a new place for cash in better pastures. Your grandchildren will thank you.

Posted by: Exile | Jul 27 2023 4:41 utc | 210

Perhaps this has already been discussed today but is anyone keeping track of how many Bradleys have been whacked so far…? The U.S. gov supposedly only gave 60 to start with, I haven’t kept track if they have sent more. The number of Bradleys removed so far must be at least 50 to 67%. General Omar B. would probably be turning red in the face at how his later namesake is turning out in another European location…

Posted by: DakotaRog | Jul 27 2023 4:48 utc | 211

I do not understand what Ukrainiens soldiers are fighting and dying for.
Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 26 2023 20:39 utc | 14

Lots of sentiments like this today.
I can tell you.
ALWAYS soldiers are fighting and dying for their fireteam. For their platoon. For their company at the most. Everything else is for others to discuss and wonder.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Jul 27 2023 4:50 utc | 212

Anyone who can find the 1998 HBO movie “The Pentagon Wars” about the making of the Bradley needs only to watch it for true understanding of the junk the American MIC puts out. A comedy so true it’s not funny.

Posted by: qparker | Jul 27 2023 4:55 utc | 213

Well, you know where I’m going. Some of it simply has to be planned. Not that every plan is meticulously laid out in the utmost of detail only to see the results play forth in exactly the right manner, but perhaps a little more…loose, amirite?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 27 2023 4:07 utc | 206
Definitely planned! Poorly and erroneously planned. When I mentioned people deriving comfort in “the plan,” I should have added the word “infallible” as an adjective. I am addressing the idea that, regardless of the objective outcomes that are currently threatening NATO as a result of the Russia-Ukraine War (perceptible even through the fog of war), “the plan” to destroy Russia is somehow working flawlessly and is on track. That was Watcher’s point @172, as I understood it. This perception of the infallibility of “the plan” is a testament to how effective Western propaganda has been over several decades – that we consider ourselves and our masters infallible. We bank on that, in fact. It is the only reason we don’t revolt. But they are not infallible. The current lot are venal idiots.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 27 2023 4:55 utc | 214

Exile | Jul 27 2023 4:41 utc | 210–
It’s nowhere near that simple, and our house alone still wouldn’t be near enough as money isn’t the only issue involved.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 5:00 utc | 215

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 5:00 utc | 215
Understand the hurdles, but would it change your calculus if you were to know that there is a 30% chance of a horrific civil war occurring within the next decade in the US ? Something as terrible as the Spanish Civil War or the Chinese Warlord 1920s era.
Just musing here

Posted by: Exile | Jul 27 2023 5:07 utc | 216

Posted by: Exile | Jul 27 2023 4:41 utc | 210
I was going to add the same as karlof1 did at 215. Some of us may have a LITTLE bit of money in our houses, but the expense of hiring a realtor, paying the fees, then selling in this ultra-high interest rate economic environment. I’ve even got an in-ground pool and some PV arrays. Two car garage, quarter acre lot. Trust me, I’m sure karlof1 feels the same: I’d love to sell right now, move the fuck out of Dodge and leave it behind. But we also have relatives here in need. Life’s complicated. Just glad I’m not in Ukraine where I could be forcibly conscripted to serve the NATO puppetmasters’ evil ends.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 27 2023 5:15 utc | 217

Reuters continues to report the WH twisting words like the sub-heading below

Ukraine’s counteroffensive is “not a stalemate” even if it is not progressing fast enough, White House national security spokesman John Kirby told reporters on Wednesday.

And they are really into saying nothing with the posting heading
Ukraine counteroffensive is moving, US says while pledging support
Is that forward movement or backward movement?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 27 2023 5:17 utc | 218

This perception of the infallibility of “the plan” is a testament to how effective Western propaganda has been over several decades – that we consider ourselves and our masters infallible. We bank on that, in fact. It is the only reason we don’t revolt. But they are not infallible. The current lot are venal idiots.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 27 2023 4:55 utc | 214
Good points of course. But I think they apply more to the typical posters who talk about Khazarian master plans to use the Goyim to de-populate the Earth and bring forth communism where you own nothing and are happy, man has no real effect on the environment, etc. But yes you’re 100% correct, those people are the fish asking each other how’s the water. Water? What water? You don’t even realize it because not only are you swimming in it and deriving your “oxygen” from it, but you’re coached to believe it from birth. Qanon! Pizzagate! Save our children! DA JOOOOOOOZ! NATO as infallible world police!
Ya’follow?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jul 27 2023 5:19 utc | 219

@Dferg | Jul 26 2023 23:28 utc | 177

Not to disparage you personally and I hope you don’t take it that way. But these two clowns are hacks and gripsters.

I think you just looked in a mirror.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 27 2023 5:26 utc | 220

Is “gripster” actually “grifter” in some unknown language?

Posted by: qparker | Jul 27 2023 5:32 utc | 221

Posted by: james | Jul 26 2023 14:49 utc | 2
Entirely agree about the Aurelien article, James.
It’s not so much that it brings forth anything new but it pulls together many elements into what seems to me a compelling argument. And one with radical strategic consequences . . . if only we can survive the current real world stress test.
https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/the-end-of-power-projection?r=1emdt&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

Posted by: Ingolf Eide | Jul 27 2023 5:50 utc | 222

Psychohistorian @ 218:

“.. Ukraine counteroffensive is moving, US says while pledging support.
Is that forward movement or backward movement?”

Neither, it’s a bowel movement. You’d be scared shitless too.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jul 27 2023 5:53 utc | 223

🎪Unverified
Source = x/twitter
>… American unit part of the Ukrainian forces storm Russian positions.
(Vid)
https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1684213269601345537
——-
Jen. “Movement”, … prompted exactly the same association for me.
Lol.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 27 2023 5:58 utc | 224

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Jul 26 2023 17:11 utc | 72
My owe my, lost individual, please stop yourself from being brainwashed, or find someone to assist you in listening, reading and understanding the ‘truth’.
Don’t pretend to know better than the barflies…

Posted by: crazycanuck | Jul 27 2023 6:06 utc | 225

The main phase of the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has begun, the direction of the main attack has been determined, reserves have begun to be sent there, – New York Times
The Ukrainian command informed Washington about the start of a new phase of the offensive in the direction of the main attack – south of Orekhov in the Zaporozhye region. In the event of a breakthrough of the Russian defense, this will allow the Armed Forces of Ukraine to move to Tokmak and further to Melitopol near the Sea of Azov. According to NYT sources in the Pentagon, the Armed Forces of Ukraine brought into battle some of the new formations, prepared specifically for the counteroffensive and still kept in reserve.
▪️Until now, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been conducting offensive operations in several sectors of the front, which observers have interpreted either as a search for vulnerabilities in the Russian defense, or as deceptive maneuvers designed to pull the reserves of the Russian Armed Forces away from the place of the main strike. Everywhere the Armed Forces of Ukraine advanced slowly, which the Kiev command has recognized in recent weeks, primarily due to dense minefields and the lack of air cover.
▪️Allegations about the main strike near Orekhovo are indirectly confirmed by a number of other sources: New York Times reporter Carlotta Goll on Wednesday reported from this area that she saw some fresh Ukrainian units trained in the West there. And the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation also reported on the “reflected massive attack by the forces of 3 battalions, reinforced with tanks” in the same area.
▪️“This is the main test,” the New York Times quotes its interlocutor at the Pentagon.
❗️Note that the enemy can also strike in other places where he has advancement: on the Vremevsky ledge and near Kleshcheevka near Artyomovsk.

…Myth vs. reality…

The results of the battles near Rabotino
During yesterday’s offensive in the Orekhovsky direction of the Zaporizhzhya Front in the area of the settlement. Rabotino, the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine sent 10AK units into battle.
Thus, the complete loss of combat capability of 9AK and the impossibility of continuing offensive operations by the forces of its constituent units was confirmed.
During the counter-offensive, the Armed Forces of Ukraine threw into battle at least two assault detachments from the 116 and 118 ombr, reinforced by the 47 ombr armored personnel carrier.
To support the offensive, two tank companies (33 ombr and 14 brng) of armored vehicles were involved.
As a result of a well-built defense, as well as clear and selfless actions of Russian soldiers of the 58th Army, at least 21 tanks (including Leopards), 14 infantry fighting vehicles (various modifications, including Bradley) and 1 IMR were destroyed.
Enemy losses in manpower, according to rough estimates, over 220 militants killed.

That was the grand attack.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 27 2023 6:19 utc | 226

At the rate at which the nazis are sacrificing troops and armour, even if they did break through to the Sea of Azov, they wouldn’t have any forces left to even secure the flanks of their advance, let alone expand it.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jul 26 2023 15:32 utc | 11
People on Saker’s blog were saying the same thing a year ago: that Ukrainian losses couldn’t be sustained, that they were running out of men, etc.
Yet since a year ago, they had the strong counteroffensive taking back a lot of land, and since then they’ve thrown a lot of men at the war, and seemingly always have plenty of reserves to move where needed.
So if people on a blog like this were wrong, a year ago, then people are probably thinking Ukraine has lost much more than it actually has or have seriously under-counted the size and potential of its army and fighting forces.

Posted by: MiniMo | Jul 27 2023 6:20 utc | 227

Posted by: MiniMo | Jul 27 2023 6:20 utc | 227
Ukraine has nothing. They have no economy, they can’t repair anything, they can’t produce anything. Their grain exports are finito.
The fact that AFU is wholly made up of western tanks and AFVs now says that it’s 100% Nato. Nato can’t easily replace nearly even half of original USSR derived army. Ukraine produced very little of anything post-USSR.
Their mobilized are on average 50 year olds and have to be hunted down with great cost and effort.
Their original army was rebuilt with a very large influx of ex-USSR weapons last Autumn, and with a very large influx of Nato weapons this Spring.
So their Kharkov offensive was running against a few volunteer guardsmen taking empty land and were taken a toll by air assets.
IIRC they wasted 8 brigades out of 10 or 11, Military Summary reported their last strategic reserve brigade was thrown to counter RU offensive in the north. That means they no longer have anything that forcibly mobilized conscripts running the attack (plus whatever mercs that are still there).

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 27 2023 6:31 utc | 228

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 27 2023 5:17 utc | 218
And then we get this ridiculous load of bollocks in The Guardian today:
Ukraine steps up counteroffensive with new push south and around Bakhmut
OT: I only looked at The Guardian because I saw the OT post up thread about the passing of Sinead O’Connor.

Posted by: tawharanui | Jul 27 2023 6:37 utc | 229

“People on Saker’s blog were saying the same thing a year ago: that Ukrainian losses couldn’t be sustained, that they were running out of men, etc.”
Posted by: MiniMo | Jul 27 2023 6:20 utc | 227
What some people said, or what you might anecdotally recall anyone saying, a year ago on some blog somewhere, does not amount to an argument about anything happening today. It’s merely a cheap distraction that says nothing at all, and has no relevance to the facts on the ground right now today.
Either the losses +700 per day on average continually peaking above 1000 KIAs since wintertime, are sustainable now or they are not. Ukraine has an army capable of defending itself and mounting a successful military attack and/or a formidable campaign now or it doesn’t.
I suggest the accumulated evidence over time to today strongly suggests the Ukraine Army is on the verge of a complete collapse across the entire contact line. That they have no substantial reserves left, those that do exist are not trained or experienced in warfare, nor is there adequate armaments or munitions supply left either.
That this will become self-evident from one day to the next. The collapse comes at first slowly and then suddenly all at once.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Jul 27 2023 6:40 utc | 230

“4400 pages plan by Nato to attack Russia” hahahahahahahahahahaah
If your “Plan” takes 4400 pages to get to the point, I would say there is no point. This sounds like the kind of thing produced by government bureaucrats in almost any country, in order to justify their bloated salaries and benefits. I hope it comes in tear-off roll form, for easy installation in the bathroom. No doubt it took hundreds of bureaucrats working hard (for 1-2 hours a day) many months to write. I give credit to anyone who could read all 4400 pages without going blind. Maybe it’s a test of endurance – “What about the notes at the botom of page 3672?”. I would bet nobody has actually read the entire thing, even the ones who wrote it.
“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face” – Mike Tyson

Posted by: FUBAR111111 | Jul 27 2023 6:41 utc | 231

Follow-up attack on Starokonstantinov airfield.

After a missile attack, the Khmelnytsky airbase Starokonstantinov was attacked by loitering ammunition. Allegedly, a new reconnaissance satellite, Condor, passed over the area and performed a damage assessment after the missile attack, and the decision was made to respond quickly to lightly or undamaged targets.
Conducting different types of attacks on the same place at short intervals and speeding up the process of detection, tracking and ordering shows that Russia has begun to largely eliminate the shortcomings of field intelligence and satellite intelligence and make them more accurate and effective.
“>https://t.me/infantmilitario/103788

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 27 2023 7:00 utc | 232

It reminds me of the Polacks in WWI or WWII when they rode up on enemy machine gun positions on horseback and carrying pitchforks and sabres.
Posted by: warxism | Jul 26 2023 16:14 utc | 24
Stupid propaganda ideas are implanted in people’s brains and stay there for generations apparently.

Posted by: RB | Jul 27 2023 7:01 utc | 233

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 27 2023 6:31 utc | 228

Their mobilized are on average 50 year olds and have to be hunted down with great cost and effort.

Can we all take a moment to acknowledge, trolls and regulars alike, that anyone who can’t even dodge a recruitment squad in the suburbs is not likely to get far on the battle field.
This style of recruitment is a reverse filter for the incompetent.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jul 27 2023 7:11 utc | 234

Most here will see a video where a Russian made Lancet takes out a German made Leopard tank.
Others like Inkan1969, will see a Ukrainian made Lancet take out a German made “Russian” Leopard tank posted by MSM channels.
Why? Why not? After all, there’s just as many delusional people currently being denazified by the Russians.
Closing the Black Sea, what a genius move.
First, get pal Erdogan to “free” the Azov Nazis, use that and the failure for the West to honour any agreement. Then pull the rug from under their feet.
Odessa is now check and mate.
Question now, will Poland commit Hara Kiri?
Cheers!

Posted by: Suresh | Jul 27 2023 7:18 utc | 235

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 27 2023 7:00 utc | 232
Huh, imo that might indicate a significant development. When a heavy attack is detected as being imminent, then AFU will “button up” as best they can, but in the aftermath of that attack instinct and necessity will dictate that the wounded are taken care of, and damage and fire control take place. That would be the time that flesh and blood, and vehicles with open hatches, would be most vulnerable to the lesser explosive forces of loitering ammunition.
It looks like Russia has made up, relative to America, some important ground here. Having fought the proxy of NATO which had been armed to the teeth several times over, the Russian military has evolved to an amazing extent. Their satellites and computers are doing the kind of work many of us imagined as only the CIA, DOD, and NSA, having the ability to do.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jul 27 2023 7:26 utc | 236

Prediction on the next iteration of drone exploitation:
(1) When Ukraine’s summer campaign ends, and they turn turtle into urban areas, parking tanks on the street corners or intersections will no longer be ‘safe’. kamikaze drones can take them out – with much less risk of collateral / civilian casualties.
(2) Anti-Reaper drones to ‘tail’ Reapers. An extended-flight duration EWS technology drone will nullify any Reaper tech and provide an excellent defence service, not only during conflicts, but during peace-time by ‘accompanying’ and nullifying such surveillance capabilities in international air-space. Of course, the hegemon can make similar EWS drones, but the overall outcome is that defence wins over offence without triggering an international incident.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 7:32 utc | 237

re FromFrance | Jul 26 2023 20:39 utc | 140
who said:“I do not understand what Ukrainiens soldiers are fighting and dying for.
Which values are they defending. Land, culture, values, because GranPa was a good killer of soviet people?”
I imagine these young men in Ukraine are fighting for what your father & grandfather or grandfather & great-grandfather fought for when they were 19 years old or so, and told the same thing old european men have been telling young european men for at least the last two thousand years, which is “Now it’s your duty to fight to protect us all. A bunch of foreign monsters have invaded us and if you and your friends don’t help we’ll all be killed/enslaved/exiled.”
In saying that I’m not defending the government of Ukraine, those kids most of whom aren’t wired enough to the actual world to know different so they do just like it says in the graphic novels, on TV etc. Just because for a place such as France the last couple of times this has occured whatever of the young men who made it through the conflict was regarded as heroes it doesn’t mean that happened everytime.
eg When the Romans colonised Gaul, they stayed there for hundreds of years and in that time people who were known to have resisted Rome were not always regarded kindly by their peers. In fact they may have lived to see their sons volunteer for an auxiliary legion in the Roman army, why? If he did his 30 years he and all his descendants would be granted Roman citizenship. Additionally he would have been given a 50 acre block of land to farm. The corollary for Rome was that some of his sons would also take a job in the army.
Many draftees fight even when they were unsure they would because ‘surrender moments’ are not very common and it’s kill or be killed.
I back Russian in this fight because they were deliberately put into a place of no other viable option, in other words in some way or another they were attacked. But still every human who dies in this conflict is a regret. The underlying thinking in ‘the west’ who deliberately created this conflict has been both unrealistic and ignoble even as some would say, evil. Those unrealistic, ignoble and evil minds aren’t to be found on the battlefield though.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jul 27 2023 7:37 utc | 238

“Maerica already has set a historical precedent with the untramelled idiocy of their back-of-napkin ‘strategy’ to confront China through breaking up Russia. They are in full on improvisation mode. The stupidity and hubris of Western leadership has no upper boundary.
They could have had prosperity and peace but they wanted absolute dominance so they will have nothing.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jul 26 2023 15:30 utc | 10”
Indeed! This sketch from several years back comes to mind when watching our incompetent leaders fumbling for desperate solutions to the mess they’ve made.
https://youtu.be/2AAa0gd7ClM

Posted by: Limert | Jul 27 2023 7:44 utc | 239

Looks like US State Department is conducting interviews for Zelensky’s replacement candidate.

This is how you should work with controlled territories:
The US Ambassador holds meetings with potential candidates for the post of President of Ukraine.
Yesterday a meeting with US Ambassador to Ukraine Bridget Brink was held by Kiev Mayor Vitali Klitschko.
The most important exam in a candidate’s life. Based on the results of the meetings, a report will be sent to the United States.
Klitschko failed his last interview with Biden. He was forced to withdraw from the elections in favor of Poroshenko. Now try number two. Klitschko is the most rated candidate to replace Zelensky. The oligarchs are now actively investing in him. But the most important thing is not the rating. The most important thing is the US support.
Translated from Oleg Tzasrev (https://t.me/olegtsarov/7423)
https://t.me/TrFormer/11764

But, that’s arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Posted by: unimperator | Jul 27 2023 7:52 utc | 240

Sell the house and you’ll have more than enough left over to buy a new place for cash in better pastures. Your grandchildren will thank you.
Posted by: Exile | Jul 27 2023 4:41 utc | 210
I just have to ask “Have you done it?”. I know some USA Ex-Pats do post here and I suspect the move may not be as slick and easy as you seem to think. Like many posters here I am far too old to consider it but I did get to watch my youngest child do it recently. He got a fabulous job in Europe and the chance to get out of Texas in late 2019. Because Covid screwed the pooch worldwide he was unable to make the move until Dec 2020
when a tiny window for the move opened up. Things seemed pretty good until Ukraine was set on fire and now it’s beginning to have the feel of jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

Posted by: qparker | Jul 27 2023 8:02 utc | 241

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 27 2023 5:17 utc | 218

Reuters continues to report the WH twisting words like the sub-heading below
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is “not a stalemate” even if it is not progressing fast enough, White House national security spokesman John Kirby told reporters on Wednesday.

Posted by: tawharanui | Jul 27 2023 6:37 utc | 229

And then we get this ridiculous load of bollocks in The Guardian today:
Ukraine steps up counteroffensive with new push south and around Bakhmut

Those headlines in The Guardian, Reuters and other media branches, are the whole reason why the Ukrainians are running into injury and death in the front lines. Without those headlines Western payments to Ukrainian politicians, military commanders, bureaucrats, soldiers, and pensioners, would stop. The current Ukrainian business model is to die for US$ and €s while trying to kill Russians. Does not look like a sustainable business model.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jul 27 2023 8:07 utc | 242

Ed
Because of the nature of the IMF-imposed economic agenda, Ukraine would find it very difficult to ever escape the debt cycle. The IMF mandates, for example that capitalist profits be only minimally taxed, the government provide generous financial support and tax breaks for capitalist ventures, public services be privatized, and restrictions on transfer of capitalist profits abroad be minimal. As a result, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for any Ukrainian government to raise funds for basic institutions people need to live a quality life.”
Posted by: Ed | Jul 26 2023 21:38 utc | 154
Ed this is one of the best post’s explaining the process that led to the destruction of Ukraine.
The SMO was just the culminating event.
The Ukrainians have been horrifically mislead.

Posted by: jpc | Jul 27 2023 8:28 utc | 243

On the front in the morning.
1. The enemy resumed attacks in the morning in the area of Workino. There was already significantly less equipment than yesterday. They lost up to 7 BMP, had no success.
2. On the Vremyevsky ledge, the enemy clung to the Staromayorskoe. There are reports that our people have left the village, but they have not yet been officially confirmed. The loss of Staromayorsky may complicate the defense of the Harvest.
3. In the Svatovo direction, our troops continued to advance to Oskol, having passed more than a kilometer in a day.
4. Kleshcheyevka is for us in the morning. Fierce fighting continues in the landings adjacent to the village. Both sides are actively using reserves.
CC

Posted by: Citan | Jul 27 2023 8:33 utc | 244

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 26 2023 23:37 utc | 178
thank you for the links and your tireless work!

Posted by: Oberbayer | Jul 27 2023 8:42 utc | 245

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 26 2023 22:30 utc | 166
OT, sorry.
Unsettled WHAT CLIMATE SCIENCE
TELLS US, WHAT IT DOESN’T,
AND WHY IT MATTERS Steven E. Koonin
The guy has PhD in physics, was part of Obama government. Discusses what ICPC report says and what doesn’t. He read it.

Posted by: RB | Jul 27 2023 8:44 utc | 246

166 You are absolutely correct. There should be a thread on climate change, if only to get out of this one.
I’m happy to participate in a climate debate. It will last about 24 hours. 90% of folk will not change their opinion. That is how we are.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 9:06 utc | 247

@watcher | Jul 26 2023 20:51 utc | 145
You mention the central bank governor and assume she is in favour of a western integration.
But that isnt the correct reasoning in my view. It is simply pragmatism. Russia and BRICS want to cautiously guide the world as peacefully as possible to multipolarity and on the way all important players have already existing investments to protect and need the transition zone between dollar-dominance to something new to progress smoothly without unpredictability beyond their control setting in. Therefore both sides have an interest in guiding the process.
Perhaps one might liken it with attempting to solve Rubics Cube or other problems with highly restricted boundary conditions.
But with the addition that no player is allowed to make moves all by himself.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Jul 27 2023 9:43 utc | 248

“Because of the nature of the IMF-imposed economic agenda, Ukraine would find it very difficult to ever escape the debt cycle. The IMF mandates, for example that capitalist profits be only minimally taxed, the government provide generous financial support and tax breaks for capitalist ventures, public services be privatized, and restrictions on transfer of capitalist profits abroad be minimal. As a result, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for any Ukrainian government to raise funds for basic institutions people need to live a quality life.”
Posted by: Ed | Jul 26 2023 21:38 utc | 154
Excellent Ed apart from the last bit.
” it would be difficult, if not impossible, for any Ukrainian government to raise funds for basic institutions people need to live a quality life.”
How does Ukraine ” raise ” funds ? It’s not a household and it is not a business and it does not have a profit or loss sheet. Last time I looked it issues it’s own currency so it does not need to ” raise ” anything. It just needs to issue it.
However, as we all know and the bit you missed out was if it eventually joins the Euro. Then it can’t issue anything and will be using a foreign currency the Euro. Then it will have to ” raise ” funds either by taxing in Euro or borrowing in Euro. Then the West have them trapped as their slaves.
They’ll have to do as Brussels says or the ECB will simply refuse to buy their Euro bonds and leave them to the mercy of the bond vigilantes. See Greece and Italy and any country who wanted to do their own thing for details.
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/05/the-eternal-return-of-technical-government-in-italy/

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Jul 27 2023 9:43 utc | 249

Landlocked Ukraine:
https://www.beyondwasteland.net/p/black-sea-matters

Posted by: KevinB | Jul 27 2023 9:55 utc | 250

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 0:40 utc | 186
That’s the HUGE difference – Euro countries do have to tax or borrow Euro to raise funds as they are no longer sovereign. Use a currency they can’t issue.
In the same way US states have to tax to raise funds.
But at the federal level That is never the case fully sovereign countries like Canada, US, UK, Japan, Russia etc, etc never have to tax or borrow to raise funds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGp6CUAAnO4

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Jul 27 2023 9:56 utc | 251

@Debsisdead 238
I do not agree.
My father figth against Nazi 1944/1945.
Comparison is not reason.
Just to remind you that in 1936 France experienced what is called “Front Populaire”.
Prgressist movement in favor of workers, people and nation, far from “Jumpers in Maidan”.
This movement betrayed by french oligarchs, if you can read french, I recommend Lacroix Riz.
For Roman colonization, just to tell you that Gaulle made a lot of benefits of it, simply because Romans provided a large benefits to what is called Gaulle to commerce roads in the Mediterranean area.
This gave a big economical boum to Galo-Roman and participated to a national feeling that lead to a nation. This took centuries.
And I do not want to discuss what is called “Barbarian invasion”.
That would take a long time.
Concerning Ukrainian soldiers,I reiterate what I wrote.
If they are realy patriots, loving their country, they would consider to hang Ze, get rid of neo-nazis, get rid rid of their oligarchs, and try to find the best possible peace with Russia.
Russia was and still is very clear ragrding their goals.

Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 10:03 utc | 252

Klitschko failed his last interview with Biden. He was forced to withdraw from the elections in favor of Poroshenko. Now try number two. Klitschko is the most rated candidate to replace Zelensky. The oligarchs are now actively investing in him. But the most important thing is not the rating. The most important thing is the US support.

In her released phone call, Victoria “F the EU” Nuland mentioned Klitschko. Don’t remember the exact words but he didn’t make her list of presidential candidates, but she didn’t directly disparage him. More like “Not a good choice for president but he’d be a great mayor”.

Posted by: Simon | Jul 27 2023 10:10 utc | 253

This is my first time to post here, though I’ve been reading this MOA blog for some time, very refreshing from the dismal daily dose of an absolutely dire Western MSM! Keep up the good work and the good fight for truth.
One wonders how many human wave asaults the UkroNazis can sustain before they run out of viable and willing manpower. I have no doubt (nor would most MOA posters) that NATO will keep it going for as long as they possibly can and that the Ukrainians are willing to allow themselves to be used and abused in this way. I’m sure the NATO planners and controllers along with their Ukrainian supplicants have to be aware that their human wave assaults on deeply entrenched and echeloned Russian defensive positions is ultimately futile and massively wasteful, even from their own blinkered and deluded point of view.
The cynicism of Empire towards its subjects is plain to se.

Posted by: Gaelach | Jul 27 2023 10:11 utc | 254

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 0:40 utc | 186
If Spain, Greece and Portugal said they were giving ” X ” to Ukraine to help with the war.
They have to recoup that loss by taxing in Euro or borrowing in Euro or open up their borders to millions of tourists and try and get their hands on Euros that way.
If Holland and Germany said they were giving ” X ” to Ukraine to help with the war.
They have to recoup that loss by taxing in Euro or borrowing in Euro or On the one hand exporting to get their hands on the Euros whilst exporting their unemployment to the periphery of the zone.
As you know fine well Karlifo1 and will probably be talking about some of it with Steve on the macro and cheese podcast. The mainstream media acts as if sovereign nation states have the same constraints as Euro using countries. When nothing could be further from the truth. They act as if everybody uses the same monetary system.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Jul 27 2023 10:19 utc | 255

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2023 0:40 utc | 186
At the start of the war and the headline splashed across every front page ” Russian exports funds Putin’s war ”
That came from idiots that imposed the EU monetary system onto fully sovereign Russia. Of course why the sanctions didn’t work.
If Germany was at war with Ukraine then yes German Exports would help to fund Germany’s war. They can’t issue their own curency.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Jul 27 2023 10:36 utc | 256

Hey, Adamski.
I can’t wait either. The website you refer to was set up by the Green Blob to directly subjugate climate nuts like yourself.
I will refer to real science, I will quote the source, and based on previous debates I’ve had, the discussion will go as follows:
I will point out a few flaws in the CO2 cult
You will try and rebut, but be out of your depth
in the next round your reply will include ‘copy and pastes’ from that website, or others, that you don’t understand
I will reply with argument backed up by facts and references
at this point you will go one of two ways:
a get hold of other folks you might know, who will give you more propaganda to spout that I will then rebut
b fall back on an ad hominem – authority figure combo, such as ‘you are not an authority, and scientists say THIS.
I will ignore the ad hominem and then query what the ‘scientists says’ in terms of what the really said and how it was then deliberately mis-quoted.
C U soon, on another thread!

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 10:56 utc | 257

re FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 10:03 utc | 252
too simplistic you miss the point which is young men fight where they are told to by older men. Sometimes its the right thing other times it isn’t. Young men have no way of knowing which & that is why old men send them first.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jul 27 2023 10:58 utc | 258

Admin issue – MOA was unavailable for half an hour, from my POV, which was a concern.
Is there a separate admin page, hopefully in a different ISP / Platform, in case you are taken down / censored?

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 11:05 utc | 259

@Debsisdead 259
When young men are not able to think:
First, they were completly misleaded by educational system
Second, they are the result of remanent family or western spreaded history (holodomor)
Third they are desesparate, nihilists as I said.
My father was 17 years old when he went to war and most of his comrades were as old as him.
I do not understand your ”old ordered to go to war”.
Today we have lot of ways to be informed (aside MSM) even and particularly for young people.
By the way Gaulle and whole meditarrenean area was not colonized by Romans.
Colonisation means sending your owns to foreign countries in enough numbers.
Rome was never able to colonize. History is more subtile.

Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 11:19 utc | 260

Posted by: badjoke | Jul 27 2023 11:32 utc | 261

Oh great – another thread fucked up by OT trolls and their voluminous BS. Thanks!

Posted by: irish al | Jul 27 2023 11:37 utc | 262

Climate nuts – you can’t wait, can you?
Okay, here’s a million data points for you to rebut.
Unfortunately, rather than unreferenced quotes, they are from charts, graphs, and data samples in studies by hundreds of scientists and institutions, peer reviewed, published and accepted into the literature. Maybe you can pick out a few and give me a reasoned response to their findings…
https://joannenova.com.au/2019/07/erasing-2000-years-of-the-medieval-warm-period-little-ice-age-found-on-every-continent/

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 11:40 utc | 263

@261,
How does this gigantic, off-topic copypasta get posted in the Ukraine thread and remain there?

Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Jul 27 2023 11:42 utc | 264

Posted by: Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:09 utc | 261
Wrong thread, but an impressive rebuttal!!

Posted by: Tim | Jul 27 2023 11:48 utc | 265

I do not understand what Ukrainiens soldiers are fighting and dying for.
Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 26 2023 20:39 utc | 14
For the biolabs.
For hunter biden.
For israel 2.0.
For blackrock and monsanto.
For nato.
For their land to be sold and polluted and their children trafficked.
In short, they’re fighting for exactly the same things that my family and relatives fight for, when they have a collective rage attack any time I try to discuss what’s on TV or criticise the government in any way, or when my sister stopped talking to me for three years when I suggested she research the vaccines a little before taking them during pregnancy.
The only difference is that most of the Ukrainians are fighting against their will.

Posted by: Mike | Jul 27 2023 11:49 utc | 266

— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation took more advantageous positions during the offensive west of the settlement of Kuzemovka in the LPR;
— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation repelled the attack of the APU in the Krasnolimansk direction, destroyed up to 185 military and the APU ammunition depot;
— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation attacked the airfields of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, storage sites for unmanned boats, missiles, weapons and military equipment received from Western countries;
— The purpose of strikes by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on airfields and warehouses of the Armed Forces has been achieved, designated facilities have been hit;
— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation destroyed the warehouses of aviation fuel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Khmelnytsky region;
— Since July 23 , the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have advanced in the Krasnolimansk direction up to 12 km along the front and 3 km into the depth of the defense of the AFU;
— The AFU failed the offensive north of Rabotin in the Zaporozhye region, where they involved up to three battalion tactical groups from the stratreserv;
— The Russian Armed Forces repulsed nine APU attacks in the Donetsk direction, including at Avdiivka and Maryinka;
— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation destroyed two P-18 AFU air target detection radars in the Dnipropetrovsk region;
— Over the past two days, the Russian military has thwarted four APU attacks near Kleshcheyevka in the DPR, more than 120 Ukrainian fighters have been killed;
— The APU did not take action at night in the Zaporozhye direction, they were restoring combat capability after a failed attack north of Rabotin;
— The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation hit the fuel depot of the 47th mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Zaporozhye region;
— Russian air defense intercepted 5 HIMARS shells during the day, destroyed 20 Ukrainian UAVs in the DPR, LPR and Zaporozhye region;
— The AFU lost more than 280 military and 25 tanks in the South Donets and Zaporozhye directions during the day.

Posted by: smonews | Jul 27 2023 11:50 utc | 267

https://t.me/llordofwar/180256

🇧🇾🇺🇳Lukashenko: The UN is increasingly turning into an organization “What do you want?”.

https://t.me/llordofwar/180242

🌍 Head of the African Union: Africa is ready to work with Russia in all areas, Moscow is a special partner for the continent;
We demand the release of the President of the Republic of Niger;
We ask you to facilitate the access of both Ukrainian and Russian food, we are ready to cooperate with Russia;
The Ukrainian crisis has a serious impact on the situation, resolving the situation will help save our continent;

https://t.me/llordofwar/180244

The urgent need for territorial defense is reflected in the new law: now the heads of regions will be able to create “specialized state unitary enterprises” (sGUP) for military needs during the period of mobilization or martial law.
These small state-owned military companies will help the FSB and the RF Armed Forces protect borders and fight saboteurs: SGUP officers will be able to shoot down drones and carry weapons in public places. The Russian Guard provides weapons for them. But it will need to be returned within 30 days from the day the enterprise was shut down. In fact, the practice of destroyer battalions is being revived on a new basis, with somewhat reduced functionality, and, moreover, on a contract basis.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 27 2023 11:53 utc | 268

270
As I predicted, after the frantic cut and paste, the ad hominem attack. ‘cretin’.
Well, another silly climate debate goes as I predicted.
Qu’elle surprise!

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 11:58 utc | 269

Posted by: Mike | Jul 27 2023 11:49 utc | 268
Apt description of most families these days, my daughter-in-law screamed at me yesterday for suggesting Bronny James heart problems just might be
vaccine related, she usually reserves that behavior for my grandchildren.

Posted by: qparker | Jul 27 2023 12:14 utc | 270

By the way Gaulle and whole meditarrenean area was not colonized by Romans.
Colonisation means sending your owns to foreign countries in enough numbers.
Rome was never able to colonize. History is more subtile.
Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 11:19 utc | 262
—
Nous sommes en 50 avant Jesus-Christ. Toute la Gaule est occupee par les Romains. Toute? Non! Un village peuple d’irreductibles Gaulois resiste encore et toujours a l’envahisseur. Et la vie n’est pas facile pour les garnisons de legionnaires romains des camps retranches de Babaorum, Aquarium, Laudanum et Petitbonum…

Posted by: Nobody | Jul 27 2023 12:16 utc | 271

It is my understanding that the front is not moving in most areas, except the Russians are making significant gains in the north and the Ukrainians are making incremental gains in the south particularly near south of Bahkmut and area of Vremsky Ledge. I struggle to find these locations on a map, some time I will need to print a map and locate them. In those areas where the Ukrainians are making progress, the fighting is quite intense and many times precarious for Russian forces. In most cases it is claimed that the Ukrainians are making gains at great cost. But it is often not mentioned that the Russians are suffering significant losses in men and material as well. That is the sense that I get from Slavyangrad. B’s portrayal is heavily slanted and leads to misunderstanding also causes me to question his reliability.
Recently, Ukraine made mass attack on Russians using Storm Shadow missiles, many (of I will estimate was about 10) got through, causing significant damage to important targets – including a training facility and several ammunition depots. It seems the Storm Shadow is a problem for the Russians.
Additionally there was a Russian general killed in fighting south of Bahkmut. Slavyangrad did a description of the conditions of his demise and the indicate that the situation in that area is quite tenuous – Russians are getting pushed-back and encircled and there are doubts about the leadership and logistics in support of the defense in that area.
Those are examples of cases where the Russians are having difficulty – as opposed to the many examples of the Russians having success. It is my understanding that the Russians have the advantage, but it is not as one sided as what is portrayed here.
I suppose that if I monitored Ukrainian sources that I would be hearing about how the Ukrainians are inflicting great damage on the Russians, in spite of little progress in moving the front.

Posted by: jared | Jul 27 2023 12:20 utc | 272

Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:09 utc | 261
who is your pope?

Posted by: paddy | Jul 27 2023 12:26 utc | 273

@Nobody 274
Vous avez raison, Asterix et Obelix, ca c’est du solide.
Ah Putain! Comme faisaient dire les Guignols a la marionnette Chirac.

Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 12:36 utc | 274

Dont worry. It ends here, but it had to be said to the cretin
Posted by: Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:52 utc | 270
Thank god it ends. Have you read ICPC? I bet not. How much do you know about statistics? I bet not much. You are just repeating the science propaganda because the real science is “too complicated”.

Posted by: RB | Jul 27 2023 12:40 utc | 275

@scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 10:56 utc | 258
I think you – unintentionally – summarised quite well how CO2-skeptics are influenced by likeminded rather than seeking counter-info which would help them to get a better understanding of the topic.
The fact that so many non-cretins – including people like Freeman Dyson – can get it so wrong was a new and unexpected experience for me.
I believe this is equally pertinent to the problem of the brainwashing of the majority of the western public.
People communicate with likeminded and dont look for alternative views in any systematic fashion.
Groupthink.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Jul 27 2023 12:44 utc | 276

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 27 2023 3:16 utc | 203
US elites are not stupid or misinformed or any of that. They are clever and they are winning in their private wars against the American people and the world. The Washington gangsters are criminals who seek power and/or money from wars and various crises around the world. Yes, there are a group of fanatics who believe that the US government must rule over the entire globe but those who plan this are, in the moment, just interested in personal power, their almighty careers, and the delight in winning the quest to be elite. I’ve been around these people and they are mainly motivated by greed and careerism. Why this is so hard to grasp is beyond me when the proof is so obvious. Sadly most people in the West are seduced by the ideals of a long-gone bygone age when strong segments of the ruling elites cared about the country and the world.
Lower-level people in government just go along to get along and don’t share in the loot and focus on tempest in teapots in their little area of activity–the more they suck up to the local gauleiters the better their career.

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jul 27 2023 12:49 utc | 277

Posted by: Tim3 | Jul 27 2023 1:34 utc | 194
Re:Grain ships being necessarily checked by Russia and Turkey?
Checking of each ship by Russia and Turkey was a myth. It may have happened initially but certainly not the norm in the time since. In fact, most of the checking was quietly subcontracted out by the Russians to the Turks who of course ,stopped checking most ships. This was done because of laziness, Turkey secretly aiding NATO sometimes and to make more money; checking ships takes time and at that time Turkey wanted grain to flow through quickly ,to make money for itself and please NATOist companies and oligarchs like Cargill and Black Rock. My take is for me to do my own research and never believe any newspaper reports just on the face of it.

Posted by: Wondrous | Jul 27 2023 13:10 utc | 278

Really? A god almighty Media Nelsonian Blind Eye turned towards St Petersburg ? Are many here equally blinded?
I look forward to b’s analysis on the event.
Meanwhile back to the plot twists and these who easily bought the story of Wagner suddenly going from Hero to Zero. A bone thrown to the frazzled natzos, who really really wanted it to be so .
Ooh that horrible cook who tried to coup Putin and has been banished is …
——————
https://t.me/IntelRepublic/24739
‘ 🪖🌍 Wagner PMC Chief Prigozhin reportedly quietly met with members of African delegations at sidelines of Russia-Africa summit.
Wagner group has a huge presence in Africa, helping countries fight terrorism. ‘
—————
… fighting terrorism is Africa
Now who has been terrorising Africa for centuries?
Are the Eurocentric Civilisation as the ONLY one that should be allowed with us at the top of the human pyramid smelling the coffee yet? Are we unblinding our turned eye?
It has been about Africa and the north south east west crossroads.
Where next? The Collective Wastes howl of doom and final failure – threats to nuke Africa back to the jungle or something dumb like that?

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jul 27 2023 13:24 utc | 279

The planet she spins
Round she goes
Six billion more years
Nobody knows
Interesting the dinosaurs got a couple of kicks at the can, will humans, in any ‘form’, be as lucky?
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 27 2023 13:25 utc | 280

Posted by: Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:09 utc | 261
Wow! I think you laid down the gauntlet on the climate issue. I always do the “risk-management” model to say that, due to the fact the weather on Earth is a complex system it is hard to know WTF is really going on. If we do nothing to mitigate greenhouse gasses and the science is correct then we have major problems, obviously, if we do act and the current science has missed some important elements then there is no problem and, in fact, there is an increase in virtue. Why? Because humanity met a common threat by coming together and the skills and habits required decreased the likelyhood of war and conflict.
The problem is that climate change will not, regardless of the science, regardless of the potential threat, because we are a society that does not and, it seems, cannot practice anything that can be called virtue. Why? Because, for complex reasons, the people in charge, i.e, the men with guns, are mostly criminals and we worship and endorse narcissism as a virtue in fact while we condemn it officially.
Whatever happens it is our collective problem–here we are on this blog talking about war, war, war because that is what the international oligarchs love for a variety of reasons. Nothing can conceivably be done about the risks we face. I gave up at least ten years ago saying anything about climate because there is nor human structure that can deal with it or any collective problem. Our only hope is aliens or angels.

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jul 27 2023 13:26 utc | 281

Hey climate nuts, post your crap on the OPEN THREAD.

Posted by: Featherless | Jul 27 2023 13:33 utc | 282

jared@275….doubts? See; Prigozhin.
Cheers M
He roams quite free for a mutineer. There was a not so friendly fire incident between RF and Wagner, regardless of theatrics. Prigozhin wanted to withdraw right after it. Took his men off the pitch, again, regardless of optical theatrics. Strong fist now on Polish Ukrainian border and an uptick in security contracts in Africa……not bad for a mutineer with a flair for crepes.

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 27 2023 13:41 utc | 283

Constantine 112
It is Zelensky who has raised the Jewish flag over Ukraine, which as a leader of Nazis and as Country in Northern Europe is absurd. To try to explain this absurdity and from my own personal experience of Jews, I speculate that there must be a strand of Judaism that is completely separate and different from Judaism as religion or race. I use the word Khazar to describe these people. With no evidence.
I do see that this strand of Judaism is keen to claim racism and anti semitism when there’s nothing different about them religiously or ethnically to be racist or antisemitic about. I’ll stop using the word Khazar, and use the word closet Judaism instead, because people like Nuland and Blinken to my eyes are closet Jews, using Jewish victim behaviour for totally non- Jewish issues.
I only picked up the word Khazar to exlain to myself why billionaires have to keep working the old victim routines. The Khazar thing to me was just an idea to explain why they might be murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people , repeatedly, for most of my adult life.

Posted by: Giyane | Jul 27 2023 13:42 utc | 284

Anyone who can find the 1998 HBO movie “The Pentagon Wars” about the making of the Bradley needs only to watch it for true understanding of the junk the American MIC puts out. A comedy so true it’s not funny.
Posted by: qparker | Jul 27 2023 4:55 utc | 213

Link to The Pentagon wars on utube

Posted by: gary | Jul 27 2023 13:45 utc | 285

@ Adamski #261
Anyone who posts that much “material” at one time is an asshole. Stay the fuck off the Ukraine thread!!

Posted by: DakotaRog | Jul 27 2023 13:52 utc | 286

Well, another silly climate debate goes as I predicted.
Qu’elle surprise!
Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jul 27 2023 11:58 utc | 272
Shrug. What did you expect?
They don’t understand logic and reasonable debate, so there is no use to engage the fanatics.
Intelligent people have tried, like Freeman Dyson, like John Clauser, Giaver, Lomborg to name just a few, and the result is null.
‘Trust the experts’, but the experts that we name, not the other ones.
Look at that long stupid list posted by Adamski. A lot irrelevant points or points that are simply not true, like for instance cold kills much more then heat:
https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com/p/global-warming-will-save-many-lives
but do you think any of the fanatics will read and try to understand?
Like plants love CO2? See CO2science.org for thousands of papers confirming this.

Posted by: LP | Jul 27 2023 13:53 utc | 287

@ Ingolf Eide | Jul 27 2023 5:50 utc | 222
hi ingolf.. i am glad you enjoyed it and thought it was well laid out and articulated important realities, as i did.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Jul 27 2023 13:53 utc | 288

Feeding what u feel is a troll is fucking stupid and makes u the troll. Just stop. Ur clogging threads with asinine troll wacking. Most that get accused of trolling here just have a difference of opinion. Just stop feeding what YOU belive is a troll. Just fucking STOP fucking troll clowns are worse than actual trolls

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 27 2023 13:59 utc | 289

Posted by: Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:09 utc | 261
220, We are going to burn every drop we can get out of the ground until we are no longer able to on account of extinction. Sorry but nothing is going to change until it is too late and by that I mean nothing changed 20-30 years ago and well time travel is not an option.
Not hardly, not even close. What the argument overlooks is the price of the resource and the cost of extraction. The quantity of essentially all natural resources depends on how valuable a resource is. Gravel is an easy example for me because there are several gravel pits where I live. The quality of the gravel depends on where they dig. If a shortage develops and the price goes up, the quantity of gravel that can be mined goes up because it becomes economic to use more expensive methods of producing gravel. If an area has a lot of gravel with excessive amounts of dirt, a higher price makes it economic to bear the expense of washing the mined stone. If an area has larger then convenient stones, it becomes economic to use a two stage crusher process that brakes up the stone that is too large for the second stage. Where gravel is really scarce, it becomes economic to use explosives to break it up. And so it goes, the higher the price, the more gravel can be produced. And on the other end of it, the higher the price, the less is consumed, thus rationing out the available supplies.
As it is with gravel, so it is with everything else. The higher the price, the more is available. And the higher the price, the more people will ration out the available supplies. And that includes oil and other energy sources. I am fond of the idea of not wasting resources, but it is by no means necessary. The free market for the resources will ration out both supply and demand, provide it is allowed to operate.

Posted by: Jmaas | Jul 27 2023 14:05 utc | 290

Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 11:19 utc | 262
By the way Gaulle and whole meditarrenean area was not colonized by Romans.
Colonisation means sending your owns to foreign countries in enough numbers.
Rome was never able to colonize. History is more subtile.
Absolutely correct. Far too many people ignorantly or lazily equate imperialism to colonialism.
Rome conquered, then made the native elites who cooperated Roman citizens.
Colonisation requires settlement of imperial citizens and displacement of the native population, either to exploit the resources of lightly populated lands (America, South Africa, Australia, etc.) or to ensure a loyal population in case of rebellion (Ireland)
Many countries have been subjected to imperialism without being colonised, though they still like to wear the victim-cloak of colonisation (e.g., China).
On the other hand, all countries which have been colonised have first been victims of imperialism.

Posted by: ltexpat | Jul 27 2023 14:18 utc | 291

Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:09 utc | 261……
If enough well-subsidised professional theologians argue for decades exclusively in support of a set of assertions, while any critics and opponents of the approved line are dissuaded or suppressed by the authorities, and attacked by the establishment mass-media, wonder what the result in terms of led public ‘perception’ of ‘reality’ will tend to be…

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 27 2023 14:35 utc | 292

@Adamski | Jul 27 2023 10:21 utc | 256
Don’t fall for this troll. He is promoting the site with a misleading name and created by the cartoonist John Cook – famous for dressing up as SS officer and taking pictures of himself (link was posted here a couple of weeks ago).

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 27 2023 14:39 utc | 293

Cynic@296…well, seems we are all Galileo’s now.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 27 2023 14:52 utc | 294

impressive how ot this thread went… come on folks.. try to stay focused..

Posted by: james | Jul 27 2023 14:55 utc | 295

Posted by: Adamski | Jul 27 2023 11:09 utc | 261
CO2 is bad. Humans exhale CO2. Humans other than the elite and their servants must be exterminated.

Posted by: First Time Poster | Jul 27 2023 15:04 utc | 296

james@299….most of the meat comes out in the first 100 or so comments. By then many barflies get over intoxicated on the linguistics and begin to spew forth…..typical bar, drunks rarely follow rules, in fact many enjoy the smash up….fecking humans, can’t live with em, can’t live without….well there’s a few I wouldn’t miss.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jul 27 2023 15:27 utc | 297

Posted by: FromFrance | Jul 27 2023 11:19 utc | 262
—
Nous sommes en 50 avant Jesus-Christ. Toute la Gaule est occupee par les Romains. Toute? Non! Un village peuple d’irreductibles Gaulois resiste encore et toujours a l’envahisseur. Et la vie n’est pas facile pour les garnisons de legionnaires romains des camps retranches de Babaorum, Aquarium, Laudanum et Petitbonum…
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 27 2023 12:16 utc | 274
……………………….
Ha ha ha! 🤣🤣
Good one!
@fromfrance
Young people band together in herds or flocks, especially young men. Especially when encouraged (en-couragé) to resist a collective danger. This invokes a native masculine sense of courageous honour – very much still part of French character, n’est-ce pas? – which is a noble altruistic instinct providing a greater sense of meaning than most drab employment the majority of young working class men find themselves engaged in. Young adults always yearn for such higher purpose.
Then once they face danger together they fight for their companions and their mutual honour. It is a noble, if also tragic, affair pro patria mori whether or not the entire strategy is corrupt at the elite level.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 27 2023 15:45 utc | 298

@301 Sean
I have been noticing that same scenario myself lately. Get the goodies and the good links up to 100-ish and then get the fug out.
I’m here now cuz I’m bored and today’s Ukro thread is so small yet.

Posted by: safe | Jul 27 2023 15:48 utc | 299

@302 Scorpion
I definitely agree with that. Just look at Hollywood movies such as Four Feathers to see how the “establishment” hypes up the war to get the young all pumped up to get them great looking uniforms!! The English kids were such suckers for that…

Posted by: safe | Jul 27 2023 15:51 utc | 300

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