So, Mr. Stoltenberg is being extended as Nato head because POTUS Biden doesn’t want UK’s Wallace from what I heard.
UK maybe overextended their enthusiasm for escalation dominance for the US’s taste?

Posted by: Fudup | Jun 27 2023 17:19 utc | 3

I am hearing reports that negotiations will soon start to end the Russo/Ukrainian war.
Such could turn out to be a ruse from both parties to placate their populations and to lull the opposite side into a lull or sleep.
Whenever, these negotiations get started just realize the Russians have no trust in the West. The West has proven to lie to Russia repeatedly over the decades.
Also, realize the USA has no choice but to ultimately take Russia down. Otherwise, it will quickly lose the world reserve currency status of its United States Dollar (USD).
The Russians will not be serious at negotiating a real peace anymore than the United States will be serious at negotiating a real peace.
Since it has become obvious that the taking down of Russia is not going to occur along the zero line in the Donbas, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, it really does not matter so much what Ukraine does or does not do.
This leaves the USA with only one option. That option will be used to preserve its hegemony. However, it will not work.

Posted by: young | Jun 27 2023 17:31 utc | 5

Prigozhin is the Kreml’s lighening rod, Putin, it’s “face”.
Prigozhin’s whining is just the sort you’d expect to hear
in the trenches and factories whenever shit goes sideways.

Posted by: Fubar El Haq | Jun 27 2023 17:40 utc | 7

According to Russian speaking Rolo Slavskiy the situation in Russia / Ukraine is highly more complex than the picture painted by the non Russian speaking commentators.
Here is a link that I repost from someone else who posted it this morning on yesterday’s thread.
https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1813-wtf-just-happened-in-russia-with-rolo-slavskiy/

Posted by: Richard L | Jun 27 2023 17:53 utc | 9

The Ukrainian Civil War is costing Mr. Stoltenberg maybe 2 million Euros a month in lost income because he can’t take on his Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund Job. Stoltenberg must be hopping mad.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 27 2023 18:11 utc | 11

note Rolo Slavskiy might speak Russian, but his primary goal will be to adavance a narrative that promotes his ethnic group’s intetests.
It’s interesting that all of a sudden Rolo Slavskiy is being heavily promoted here. Hmmmm

Posted by: Exile | Jun 27 2023 18:15 utc | 13

“Western nations must have helped businessman Evgeny Prigozhin organize his brief insurrection last week, according to Viktor Zolotov, commander of the National Guard of Russia… the senior official expressed certainty that the mutiny ‘was inspired by Western special services, because, as they said, they knew about it several weeks ahead of time.’”
Neocons will double down, triple down and quadruple down:
https://jamesburrillangell.substack.com/p/strange-diplomacy-victoria-fck-the

Posted by: Doim | Jun 27 2023 18:20 utc | 15

Comment by sln2002 | June 25, 2023 at 15:54While the 4B ruble triple agent Prigozhin debriefed Putin and Lukashenko, this happened. Belarusian opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya [alias Svitlana Tykhanovskaya alias Svetlana ] has called on Belarusians to not let an opportunity to save Belarus go to waste….
RT, 27 June 2023,”Belarusian opposition was ready to stage armed coup amid Russia crisis – Lukashenko”

Lukashenko said on Tuesday that his opponents had started “buzzing with activity” when Wagner launched its mutiny in the neighboring country last week [24.06.23]. “But it was a false start,” he added.
The opposition “has already published its appeals and plans… that they are also ready to implement the scenario of an armed rebellion in Belarus,” the president claimed. “They’re trying to demonstrate at least some results to their curators abroad.”
“When the events in Russia were happening, I gave all the orders to put the army on full combat alert,” Lukashenko said, adding that the same was true for the police and the special forces….

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 27 2023 18:25 utc | 17

>Posted by: Exile | Jun 27 2023 18:15 utc | 13
Agreed. It’s hard to take someone seriously who’s posts usually start with a variation of this:
>Literally everything is occurring as I said it would, folks. It’s eerie, actually. I’ve got chills running up and down my spine now and you should too. It must be all the spice melange (kratom and nicotine) I’ve been imbibing gifting me the powers of prescience (and belligerence).
>All the people in the comments section or Twitter who were arguing with me these last days, only to be proven wrong, again, continue to reaffirm and strengthen my disdain for the masses. Your stupidity and swine-like ingratitude towards Rolo only strengthen my resolve to drive the truth deeper down into your throats as you gurgle in protest with each post. The simpletons should realize by now that they have literally no chance and no business going up toe-to-toe against me in the future. Look, I have autism and if I add up my math and reading section scores from the SAT, it comes out to me having a *154+ IQ, so you’re just not going to be able to out-analyze me, bro. Give it up already. Also, if you are unable to pick up and run with the logic that I lend out to you or make use of the hidden Slavlands lore that I reveal for my beloved Stalkers behind the paywall, just start pretending that I am a priest or a celebrity or yer mum or whatever other authority personality that you are accustomed to obeying unquestioningly.
Or, in other word, the dude is batshit crazy.

Posted by: Pudding | Jun 27 2023 18:32 utc | 19

Anyone heard of the whereabouts of Prigozin, or his closest gang members?

Posted by: ostro | Jun 27 2023 18:37 utc | 21

Posted by: Hot Fuzz | Jun 27 2023 18:22 utc | 15
Some of us still think it was a psyop. I for instance. Still no photos of bodies, still no witnesses to say they saw the helicopters and planes be shot down and saw bodies, still no record of even one Wagner even wounded by a Russian trooper. Seen Putin go to a funeral? Any mothers, wives or children crying on TV? Also the Rosguardia director is still talking with honour on websites, rather than be in chains ( his units supposedly gave up in Rostov).
What matters is that it is a net benefit to Russia as I mentioned in my previous posts here.
Posted by: Exile | Jun 27 2023 18:15 utc | 13
Someone here said his Russian was poor and inconsistent with him being a Russian or Ukrainian or even born overseas with Russian/Ukrainian parents. UK psywarrior? Anyway, I do read him every so often. I like his audacity, but not his conclusions.

Posted by: Boy | Jun 27 2023 18:41 utc | 23

Hot Fuzz | Jun 27 2023 18:22 utc | 15
Wagner is a GRU creation and it’s funded by the Russian government. Putin was not only a KGB agent he ran the East German station during the cold war … he is no desk jockey.
I can’t imagine Putin and the GRU being so naive as to put an ex.con in charge of a 50,000 man army without at least one loyal agent ready to put a bullet in his head if he took one step off the reservation.
You would have to believe either Putin and the GRU are completely inept, incompetent and impotent or Prigozhin is playing a part in a piece of theater. it would be far easier to pull off Prigozhin dying in a training accident or slipping and falling out a window and replacing him than going through this whole ‘march on Moscow bullshit which the Russians could have stopped any time they wanted by simply mining the roads in front and behind Prigozhin’s convoys.
The GRU are the agency responsible for military deception. Russia has a long tradition of complex military deceptions and psyops. All of us Russian history nerds have been waiting to see in what form “maskirovka” comes in in the age of NATO ISR … I think we may have seen it.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jun 27 2023 18:45 utc | 25

On what is the effect of negotiations.
Ukraine has rejected negotiations and even broke out of them even though they had good terms. The reason was the promise from the West that they will stand by them militarily no matter the cost. This of course gives a huge morale boost and justifies in front of the populace all subsequent actions such as economic and social hardship, mobilization and huge losses on the front. It is internally tolerated because they are never going to negotiate. Hence, an “all or nothing” narrative is used for garnering the needed popular support. This is effective for the Ukrainian side and may win the war for them. In other words, negotiations – even the smallest hint – and the winning narrative will be gone.
Russia went in in the first place with negotiations in mind. They wanted to use “military technical” means as a way to force an agreement to protect Ukrainian Russians from discrimination by the NATO-instigated nationalist Ukrainians and to achieve a better strategic position against an ever agressive NATO. But they failed in this and since the summer are now on an increasingly defensive path. Such strategy has no clear goal, does not solve the problems of the russian citizens nor is there a victorius narrative to support their actions. The Russians will always talk if any hand is outstretched and try to end this asap, even on worse terms than the original ones (because of intrinsic humanism and honesty). By itself such a strategy admits that they are the invaders. Waiting for the West to exhaust itself is also not a grand winning strategy. This of course affects troop morale negatively and creates a need to compensate for it via other means. In other words, the Russians lack a narrative that will equalise the societal support with the one on the Ukrainian side. The support of China at the beginning was a positive booster but that has gone in recent months. The support of the RoW has also become less warm. The West is not tiring itself, even more: economic booms are happening in front of very high inflation and the populace is almost monolithically in support of NATO.
These strategically lacking issues are of course exploited by their opponents but also by themselves come up once in a while. The Prigozhin episode underscored the stress in the Russian society that has built up due to a lack of a well motivated reason why are they doing this in Ukraine at the moment and what will be the end goal that benefits Russian society more than not doing it. The humanitarian honest reasoning and patriotism is too abstract and goes only so far. They need to get winning and show to everyone and most of all themselves that they are on the right side of history.
Unfortunately I dont see that the Russian state has learned from the last half year how construct a strong narrative, a story, of intrinsic motivational character like the one the Ukrainian side has. This may cost them the war at some point, even though they have all the prerequisites to win it. I hope I am wrong and that having the moral high ground is enough but I am afraid that is so only in Hollywood movies. It reeks of the way the dissolution of the USSR was handled when social pessimism completely overwhelmed many decades of building a society.

Posted by: alek_a | Jun 27 2023 18:50 utc | 27

https://sonar21.com/was-prigozhins-mutiny-a-western-intelligence-op-derailed-by-russias-spies/#comment-138359
Dropshot American Plan for War with the Soviet Union, 1957 Vol. III
I first read it many years ago, but at the time was more interested in the operational issues of how it was anticipated the war would be fought in 1957.
Re-reading it, I am struck by the US war aims as expressed in it:
16. Establish Control and Enforce Surrender Terms in the USSR and Satellite Countries (in the Event of a Possible Early Capitulation of the USSR During Phase I)
a. Analysis In order to ensure compliance with our national objectives, the Allies would have to occupy selected areas of the USSR and her satellites and establish some form of Allied control in each of those countries. A method of control under the conditions which would exist in the event of early capitulation, affording maximum control with minimum forces, might be to occupy selected bridgeheads in the USSR and other selected centers which would serve as bases for projection of control in both the USSR and her satellites. It is considered that the greater portion of control forces should be in bridgehead areas with minimum forces in the interior.
Areas selected as centers of control in the USSR should be urban areas which are of strategic importance such as the following: political and administrative centers, communication centers, major seaports or naval bases, oil-producing or refining centers. Areas selected in the satellites as centers of control should be the various capitals and certain key seaports and urban areas. Centers of control in the USSR should be grouped into larger regions of responsibility.
It is considered that the basic element of control should be exercised by ground forces based in and operating from the control subcenters. The most suitable control unit readily available would be the division augmented by additional motor transport to give it increased mobility. On this basis, a total of thirty-eight divisions is estimated to be the minimum requirements for the control centers shown on the map referred to above.
Since the means of control envisaged would in reality be a skeleton occupation, it is considered that a high ratio of air-force units would be desirable in order to bring visible evidence of Allied strength before the Soviet and satellite people. These air-force units should be organized, disposed, and controlled on a broader regional concept than the ground forces in order to assure flexibility and maximum effectiveness with the minimum of forces in assisting and supporting the ground forces.
On this basis five reinforced tactical air forces, each consisting of approximately five to six combat groups and one troop-carrier group with an attached assault or glider squadron, should be assigned the following regions of responsibility: western USSR, Caucasus-Ukraine, Urals-west Siberia-Turkestan, east Siberia-Transbaikal-maritime (including Korea) and the European satellite area. Ground and air forces would be provided from forces released from other tasks and should be moved to selected centers of control by the most feasible and rapid means available in each case. Logistic support would be mainly by sea transport and railroad, augmented, especially in the initial stages, by air transport. It is recognized that tremendous logistic problems would exist in the supply of Allied control forces, particularly those destined for areas deep in the USSR. Allied troop-carrier and air-transport units would be strained to the utmost in providing airlift. A considerable period might elapse before full complements of Allied ground and air forces reached all control centers, but every effort should be made to reduce this time to the minimum, even though capitulation had already been obtained.
A carrier task force should be provided in each of the Baltic and Black seas to provide a reserve striking force and to serve as a psychological factor to impress the Soviet and satellite peoples.
A reserve of divisions, fighter and bomber groups, and troop-carrier units should be earmarked by the Allies when released from other tasks to be available for re-enforcement of the control forces if required. The size and composition would be dependent upon the situation existing at the time.
The forces required for this course of action, with the possible exception of those required for airlift, could be made available from those which have been developed for the other courses of action in Phase I. The balance of forces then in existence should be retained operational in reserve until full control of the USSR and her satellites is established and until the situation in Southeast Asia and the Far East has been clarified.
United States Department of Defense. Dropshot: American Plan for War with the Soviet Union, 1957 (pp. 45-46). Unknown. Kindle Edition.
Elsewhere in Dropshot, though not in the Vol 3 on Kindle, the aim of breaking up Russia in order to ensure it would never be powerful enough to oppose the US is explicitly stated as a war aim.
The war aims of this plan were delusional. Russians would never accept foreign occupation, the US could never mobilise enough forces to effectively occupy Russia.
But More! I had though the plans to defeat and break up Russia were a relatively recent neocon innovation. NO, HELL NO! Dropshot was drafted in 1957, 66 years ago, and was the outcome of up to 10 years of planning, thus the plan to break up Russia is probably at least 75 years old and has permeated all US “strategic” thinking about Russia since then.

Posted by: Dropshot | Jun 27 2023 18:56 utc | 29

Well, from where I’m sitting, Jake the Snake’s press conference today tells me that the USA are throwing the UK under the Bus. I believe Pregozhin was helped by the UK Govt. Russian fighter jets scrambled to escort an RAF recon ‘plane flying over Crimea. Ben Wallace is obsessed with Crimea, truly obsessed. The UK is isolated. With the USA literally throwing them under the Bus, our Govt needs to really stop and think what they are doing interfering big time in Ukraine. We are going to suffer here in the UK because of it. Russia has a right to retalliation. I’m seriously considering moving to Africa next year, I won’t name it but a highly stable country in Africa.
I want no part of this NWO, of slavery, of surveillance and all that comes with it. I want to live a free life with good friends, in a civilised country that has a Govt that actually puts the people first. has intelligent Presidents/Prime Ministers and who invest in their own country’s needs rather than pander and kow tow to the USA.
God Bless Mother Russia and President Putin and the Russian Citizens and civic officials and institutions who stood firm against Traitor Pregozhin. May he rot wherever he is.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jun 27 2023 19:00 utc | 31

Ostro no. 20
“President Alexander Lukashenko, who quelled the feud between the Wagner Group and Russia, confirms that mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has arrived in Belarus.“We offered them one of the abandoned military bases,” Lukashenko says, referring to exiled Wagner fighters who have been invited to live in Belarus under the deal he brokered.”
Aljazeera

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 27 2023 19:01 utc | 33

This makes no sense to me: https://www.rt.com/russia/578777-lukashenko-belarus-wagner-coup/
Perhaps I’m not reading between the lines, but how does this scenario seem remotely plausible? Belarussian opposition was activating a coup attempt while Prigozhin engaged in his own (assumed real) coup (or “mutiny”) attempt in Russia. Lukashenko negotiates the end to the Russian coup while his people put down the one in Belarus. Luka and Belarus then welcome the (assumed real) coup attempt in Russia after putting down their own coup. I mean, c’mon – Really?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 27 2023 19:10 utc | 35

Or, in other word, the dude is batshit crazy.
Posted by: Pudding | Jun 27 2023 18:32 utc | 18
Totally!

Posted by: RB | Jun 27 2023 19:11 utc | 37

Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Jun 27 2023 18:58 utc | 29

The truth of the matter is that Prigozhin, like Razin and Pugachev before him, was giving voice to the repressed concerns within Russian society by assuming the role of the brigand-hero which is a deep rooted archetype within Russian cultural memory.

That argument has a lot of meat to it, Prigozhin’s alma mater was the slammer and his language makes honor to it, Luka admitted that for the first half hour the whole conversation was plain blasphemies, the language that the regular Ivan understands quite well. And for true Russophiles, the respect or love that you may have for that country should not blind anybody, there are lots of problems that need to be solved together with the big one, the whole west salivating when they see a map. One huge problem, the defense minister son in law, highly offensive, especially if the fate of Stalin’s son is remembered.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 27 2023 19:12 utc | 39

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 27 2023 19:10 utc | 34
————–
I suppose, it is an exile in Belarus, rather than be free…

Posted by: ostro | Jun 27 2023 19:17 utc | 41

Folks more knowledgeable than I will /do poo poo Larry’s post that what we saw was a sting. They also reject the idea that lots of US $$ was transferred to foster this coup.
But consider: From reports of how the CIA promotes color revolutions (and have for many years), Larry’s scenario is plausible.
The fact is that both issues are being discussed (true or provable is not a consideration) Folks (like me scratch their heads and say – hmmmmm – maybe?
Please do not misunderstand – I am talking about winning the war of words – This recent ‘coup’ has made the news world wide – and IMHO the USofA did not come out as a winner – nor did the Bidenites.
Q: how does the CIA (or DOD or??) PROVE that it did NOT participate in any way in the coup? The more they deny the worse it looks for them.

Posted by: ms idaho | Jun 27 2023 19:19 utc | 43

Posted by: ms idaho | Jun 27 2023 19:19 utc | 42
Posted by: J_Schneider | Jun 27 2023 19:22 utc | 43
——
The guessing game is on…and let it go on… 🙂

Posted by: ostro | Jun 27 2023 19:27 utc | 45

This author is new to me, but he puts out some interesting theories.
https://sonar21.com/a-working-theory-on-prigos-coup/
In particular I think he’s correct about the ammo complaints.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 27 2023 19:33 utc | 47

Lukashenka also revealed some details of the negotiations that took place on Saturday.
“It took me a long time to convince him. And at the end I said, “You know, you can do whatever you want. But don’t take offense at me. The brigade is prepared for transfer to Moscow. And, as in ’41 (you read books, an educated, intelligent person), we will defend Moscow. Because this situation is not only in Russia,” Lukashenko said.
————-
“There is a lot of talk and chatter now: “Wagner, Wagner, Wagner.” People don’t understand that we are also pragmatic about this. If their commanders come to us and help us… Experience. Listen, they’re on the front line — assault squads. They’ll tell us what’s important right now. That’s the last time Putin told me: counter-battery struggle, it’s impossible without it. Drones. They’ve been through it. They will tell you about the weapons: which worked well, which did not. And tactics, and weapons, and how to attack, how to defend. It’s priceless. This is what we need to take from the Wagnerians,” Lukashenka noted.
At the same time, he said that “there is nothing to be afraid of them,” because the Belarusian authorities “keep their eyes open.”
————-
Didn’t hear anything about Prigozin’s future, though.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 27 2023 19:46 utc | 49

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 27 2023 19:33 utc | 46
tom… karlof1 shared the link here at moa yesterday… i see moa is talking about it earlier in this thread with the hot fuzz post.. i think its a pretty good theory as far as theories go.. larry johnson used to post at pat langs site.. i go to his site from time to time..

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2023 20:33 utc | 51

The media chattering classes in France have been going on ad nauseam about the ‘coup attempt’ for the last five days. Most of it is sheer Lalaland, along the lines of b.’s eight identical commentators. I’ve learned two valuable facts, however: 1) Nobody actually knows anything; 2) You are not allowed to say anything positive about Putin.

Posted by: B. Wildered | Jun 27 2023 20:33 utc | 53

“Cet auteur est nouveau pour moi, mais il propose des théories intéressantes.
https://sonar21.com/a-working-theory-on-prigos-coup/
En particulier, je pense qu’il a raison en ce qui concerne les plaintes concernant les munitions.”

Diriez vous que Prigojine agit comme Zelensky et Nuland ?
Boris Berezovski, Mikhaïl Khodorkovski et son collègue Vladimir Potanine,Roman Abramovitch, Arkadi Rotenberg,…
https://www.liberation.fr/grand-angle/2003/11/10/la-saga-des-oligarques_451256/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2023/06/24/billionaire-oligarchs-jets-flee-moscow-as-putins-regime-plunges-into-crisis/
Cherchez le fil conducteur…

Posted by: christophe nicolas | Jun 27 2023 20:43 utc | 55

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2023 20:37 utc | 53
At Larry’s site, but by a different author who I’d not seen before. And as far as things go, yeah it’s so-so, but at least he qualifies it at the beginning and end thusly:
“I have no idea if this is the correct interpretation of events or not. It’s just idle speculation, but who knows…”
Which is pretty much where I’m at right now, lol. Only time will tell, but we have no idea how much it will tell.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 27 2023 21:07 utc | 57

B. Wildered no. 52
Right on both counts.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 27 2023 21:12 utc | 59

Marcjf no. 55
Nothing is confirmed of course but apparently the Wagner contingent and their leader are being housed in an abandoned military base in Belarus.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 27 2023 21:20 utc | 61

I see the Prigozhin thread has migrated to this one–again. An interesting interpretation of Putin’s four recent speeches–The overall Russian audience was urged to understand that just because life seems normal in cities and towns far removed from proximity to Ukraine all of Russia is facing an existential crisis, that Russia’s Western enemies mean it suffer very substantial harm. So, part of the Prigozhin “trick” was to shake Russia by its shoulders and awaken all of it to the genuine danger it faces. Putin also knows that at some point he’ll need to tell Russians why Prigozhin was allowed to go to Belarus after causing the deaths of thirty or so helo pilots and crew. In Putin’s second address today, which I provided translated transcripts of at the previous Ukie open thread, while talking about that enemy he cryptically said, “He’s already trying to do it – I’ll tell you about it later-but it’s not working,” that IMO was Putin acknowledging there’s more to be said about the event but it can’t be revealed now.
So, what is happening in Ukraine? I assume the clobbering continues. What’s happening in the Kharkov region? Johnson reported an incident where a Ukie officer fragged his own troops for not getting off their butts that was caught on video.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 27 2023 21:28 utc | 63

Lukashenko’s speech on Pul Pervogo describing the events of Friday – interesting, perhaps even entertaining. Is there a transcription somewhere?

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 27 2023 21:36 utc | 65

Large hit in Kramatorsk. In this video they are speaking to a wounded man in English—and the man aiding him appears to have a Rangers 3rd Battalion tattoo.
(graphic)
https://twitter.com/squatsons/status/1673803675062657025?s=46&t=iQi7fB-06urmjYsPOJ0ITw

Posted by: Gengar | Jun 27 2023 21:51 utc | 67

Ian Kummer | Jun 27 2023 21:07 utc | 57
Agreed, nobody knew. A simple explanation is that Wagner PMC had reached dangerous levels of force over the times, threatening RF’s state monopoly of power. I see an analogy to Germany’s situation in 1934 (coincidence, 3 days, end of June), when the SA, NSDAP’s brown shirt paramilitary, had grown too strong for Hitler’s and his inner circle’s taste. SA was “pruned” (leadership murdered) in the Night of the Long Knives. Russia’s approach in 2023 appears somewhat more civilized: They decided to force all PMCs into contracts. Kadyrow agreed around two weeks before the Wagner coup. Prigozhin, apparently seeing his control over his empire dwindle, snapped according to his short temper. – Neither double, triple or whatever agent and three-letter agency involvement is needed to explain this inner-Russian purge.

Posted by: OttoE | Jun 27 2023 22:06 utc | 69

-> ostro
-> scepticalSOB | Jun 27 2023 21:35 utc | 63
I’m not sure that makes any difference. he did study Russian history language and culture for many years.
Ray was a Russian language and history teacher in a high school, when there were a few ones in that period, that is why he ended up with CIA.
His Russian is better than any non-Russian Slavs speaking Russian.
He has no accent. Also, his German is good, with a proper pronunciation.
I know also know few older East Germans that speak flawless Russian.
So the point is one cannot judge how good someone speaks by nationality. It requires a good ear, and a lot of practice.

Posted by: whirlX | Jun 27 2023 22:28 utc | 71

Hmmmm
Posted by: Exile | Jun 27 2023 18:15 utc | 13
Right. Rolo Slavskiy makes a lot of statements including many opinions. It sounds like a NYT piece. First time I listen to him. Then I saw his articles published on unz.com and Unz was the first to point out some factual error in one of his pieces. So I need to find some way to double check what he says. Time will provide the answer eventually.

Posted by: Richard L | Jun 27 2023 22:33 utc | 73

More on Kramatorsk:
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/34670
The enemy is preparing to throw large forces into a new offensive wave for the NATO summit…
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/34668
No question there is a surge happening right now, counter offensive is far from over, Ukraine seems to have infinite men and resources, funny how the UKR calls Russians orks, for anyone familiar with TLOTR it’s exactly the opposite, in every way.
The west is not running out of weapons and ammo and from Kramatorsk images seems mercs aplenty, this is not ending soon. IMO the Russians will escalate soon, they’ll have no choice, the USA plan is definitely to wear down Surovikin’s defensive system at all cost, no price too high, they’ll keep at it till they break through in “Osgiliath”. So what’s RF’s next move?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 27 2023 22:36 utc | 75

I may have missed it but I have seen no reference to Indian Punchline today. And Bhadrakumar’s take strikes me as being the most interesting that I’ve seen.
He puts the ‘coup’ in the context of the 100 year plus war that US capitalism has been waging against Russia- and Russia’s reaction as all of a piece with its constant awareness that there are always attempts to subvert and weaken it.
Specifically he links the nine hours wonder in Rostov with last year’s coup attempt in Kazakhstan and Russia’s swift squelching thereof.
It has been obvious to all here that, for several months now, the CEO of Wagner has been going off the rails: nobody anywhere gets away with the sort of nonsense that Proghozin has been pouring out into the media, unless the object of his increasingly unhinged attacks wants them to continue. He was being fed as much rope as needed not just to hang himself but others too.
And that is what is interesting- who were the ‘others’? Was he in touch with Ukrainian Nazis? Was he in touch with their NATO sponsors? How many others in Russia were involved?
In normal circumstances he would have been shut up- appeased, jailed, removed from social media, cashiered and replaced or dealt with in some other appropriate manner- as soon as his strike breaking in Bakhmut began. Instead he was given his head, encouraged to say more. And eventually allowed to go into what one assumes is secure exile/house arrest, from where he can be brought back to Russia to supply the missing pieces when the puzzle is assembled.
Which may or may not become public knowledge.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 27 2023 22:59 utc | 77

My two cents on the Prigs’ Maskirovka angle are in:
1 – Motive. Paul Damascene came up with the notion of putschists trying to seize a nuclear-armed airfield. Now that is a point, and it gives sense to a possible mission which tries to smoke out the rats in Russia’s own ranks.
2 – Means. I certainly deem Moscow, as well as Putin himself, prepared to lie with a straight face; especially at a time of war. Maybe they’d prefer not to, I can’t tell – but they apparently do – ? ? – – I note that the “downed aviation” theme resembles the 9/11 airliner crash in Pennsylvania, fwiw. And Wagner getting a leftover military base in Belarus, as Lukashenko apparently offered, is quite the gift for such a rogue troupe, isn’t it? Now surely this needs a more solid argument to be convincing, but I don’t really have one that goes beyond pointing out the recent theatrics, including the drone incident, and that interesting law against a revisionist version on the beginnings of the great war in 1941 (the Suvorov-Schwipper hypothesis that was discussed in last week’s open thread).
So it’s a speculation.

Posted by: persiflo | Jun 27 2023 23:15 utc | 79

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 27 2023 22:36 utc | 74
Keep on doing what they’ve been doing, Ukraine have only dented the forward defensive screen, which probably was expected to fall back after D+3-4, not still be fighting on D+20. No, Ukraine do not have infinite reserves, they are burning through the troops who should have been committed to assaulting, breaching and exploiting the first main defensive line. They probably have committed the bulk of their operational reserves and are heavily dipping into their strategic reserve. Why is this important? It means when, not if, they come close to reaching offensive equilibrium they are very vulnerable to any Russian counter-offensive, or more likely offensive. Secondly, the longer the Ukrainians maintain the offensive tempo the more their forces suffer attrition (critical with regards to their parlous recovery and repair capabilities) exhaustion (this isn’t an RTS with a replenishing fatigue bar) and ammunition shortages.
If this was LOTR the forces of Mordor are still battling outside the Black Gates; however, analogies aside, referring to your opponent as sub-human is probably one of the stupidest psychological moves one can make as it is ultimately self-defeating.

Posted by: Milites | Jun 27 2023 23:16 utc | 81

Personally, I’m half expecting that there will now be an increase in pressure on Ukraine to ratchet up its attacks, both in intensity and range.
Because in the West they might be feeding into their abomination of a calculus a combination of their hopes and desperation driven needs that have been distilled down into an equation, and the resulting Garbage In Garbage Out is being held up high as a rationale for going all in on “taking out Putin, now that he’s been weakened”.
In the corridors of power of the West, that could be what passes for a military strategy.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 27 2023 23:31 utc | 83

US Army Rangers Third Battalion merc hit in Kramatorsk?

An interesting tattoo on the arm of one of the “tourists” from the Kramatorsk strike earlier today.
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/71086

Today there was a strike in Kramatorsk and let me just say that’s a lot of English for eastern Ukraine.
Most are saying foreign mercenaries.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/34529

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jun 27 2023 23:37 utc | 85

ostro # 18:37 utc | 20

Anyone heard of the whereabouts of Prigozin, or his closest gang members?

I will let you know after my next zoom chat with my Palestine buddies 😉

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 27 2023 23:44 utc | 87

to zinjanthropus | Jun 27 2023 23:15 utc | 79 …
That “analysis” is such overall cobblers — though carefully contrived — as to not be worth refuting point by point. A rehashed compendium of NATO propaganda and denials throughout (at least) this century. Next time, do ask Wallace, Ellwood, Cleverly, Blinken or whoever for a more original script.

Posted by: Cynic | Jun 28 2023 0:00 utc | 89

When officials in Washington, even the highest ones, hand out to the public statements about events in Russia and Ukraine which are not true, which are in fact outright nonsense, which they must think serves some purpose, do they believe in the nonsense they are selling?
— Russia is crumbling, civil war has begun, Ukraine is winning —- etc.
If they do then it is hard to understand how they have achieved high office since they are so stupid. However some DO realize what they are saying is contrary to reality. Obviously they are expecting personal reward for their duplicity.
are they all so depraved? I am inclined to think so.

Posted by: medo | Jun 28 2023 0:06 utc | 91

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 27 2023 23:41 utc
Thanks for that excellent and brief summary in response to one of the barfleas. Its important to repeat the history of events like that.

Posted by: Wisco | Jun 28 2023 0:08 utc | 93

Posted by: Richard L | Jun 27 2023 17:53 utc | 9
“Rolo Slavskiy” is a CIA shill like 99% of “Russian nationalist” etc. media.

Posted by: Ree | Jun 28 2023 0:25 utc | 95

I see barflies/barfleas continue to misrepresent the context of the Ukraine SMO
Humanity is in a civilization war between the God Of Mammon cult with its zombie acolytes and the growing China/Russia axis.
To Russia, the SMO is existential. To most of the 101st chairborne I read here, the Ukraine conflict is about Hollywood lipsticked Western values and Rules Based Order localized to Ukraine and the EU.
Putin has made it clear that the goals of the Ukraine SMO are focused on taking down the bully of empire. The same bully that is threatening China and all those other nations that don’t abide the bully’s ways.
Russia’s methods are slow and methodical which is in existential conflict with the Might-Makes-Right approach of empire…..if empire doesn’t nuke or bio-chemical us all to death THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH!
Get use to it. Human merit will replace inheritance as key to social leadership

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 28 2023 0:34 utc | 97

i read indian punchline yesterday… i suppose i assume others keep up and read these types of websites, but i am probably wrong..

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 1:00 utc | 99