Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues here.
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June 21, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-147
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
@100 Posted by: FromFrance | Jun 21 2023 21:58 utc | 101 And of course, it reminds me the tactic of Russian army against french Napoleon invasion. Posted by: jr | Jun 21 2023 22:02 utc | 102
That could be 50-60 % of the tanks and 50-60 % of AFV/IFVs earmarked for the southern offensive by Nato gone, however you want to calculate it and if the “leaked” documents are anywhere close to truth (they had 400 tanks and about 1200 AFV). Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 22:09 utc | 103 Common sense on Ukraine from one of the most reliable soirces in the USA Black Agenda Report’s Margaret Kimberley Posted by: bevin | Jun 21 2023 22:09 utc | 104 @ John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:21 utc | 77 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 22:16 utc | 105 Looks like Ukraine will officially stop offensive. They lost around 10% of west equipment and send 60k of the soldiers. Posted by: blind | Jun 21 2023 22:24 utc | 106 Posted by: Crazy chump | Jun 21 2023 20:55 utc | 91 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 21 2023 22:29 utc | 107 Posted by: Concerned Citizen | Jun 21 2023 21:55 utc | 101 Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Jun 21 2023 22:32 utc | 108 @ blind | Jun 21 2023 22:24 utc | 107 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 22:38 utc | 109 Karlof1 @86 Posted by: Paul Damascene | Jun 21 2023 22:50 utc | 110 Ukrainian Counteroffensive’s Second Week Ends in Failure Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 21 2023 22:53 utc | 111 whirlX @ 110
At the start of SMO Putin should have invited the Chinese to dig them a tunnel, the Chinese would be finished by now, at least the rough work. Russia would have a tunnel and a bridge, belt and suspenders. Maybe the geology doesn’t allow it. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 22:54 utc | 112 How convenient! https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/21/pentagon-says-accounting-error-provides-extra-6-2-billion-in-ukraine-military-aid/ Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 21 2023 23:15 utc | 113 scepticalSOB | Jun 21 2023 17:43 utc | 23 Posted by: Cynic | Jun 21 2023 23:16 utc | 114 The only people in that region who are mean and stupid enough to think they could beat the Chinese and thus would be willing to dive head-first into the grinder would be the Australians. Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 23:17 utc | 115 war with China is too stupid an idea to get a vote here. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 21 2023 23:28 utc | 116 A couple of things, one major; today. Posted by: T S | Jun 21 2023 23:30 utc | 117 @ LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 22:54 utc | 113 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 23:50 utc | 118 whirlX | Jun 21 2023 22:38 utc | 110 Posted by: blind | Jun 21 2023 23:58 utc | 119 Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Jun 21 2023 21:30 utc | 98 Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 0:05 utc | 120 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 20:55 utc | 92 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 22 2023 0:08 utc | 121 The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 23:17 utc | 116 Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2023 0:12 utc | 122 I don’t believe the polls claiming most Americans favor continuing the war..likely they are fake/manipulated..The Ukraine flags have entirely disappeared in the States I travel in, and the people I have talked with want the war to end… Posted by: snake | Jun 22 2023 0:12 utc | 123 Not sure if ACME survived the lawsuit against it.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 22 2023 0:13 utc | 124 At the start of SMO Putin should have invited the Chinese to dig them a tunnel, the Chinese would be finished by now, at least the rough work. Russia would have a tunnel and a bridge, belt and suspenders. Maybe the geology doesn’t allow it. Posted by: kupkee | Jun 22 2023 0:15 utc | 125 @ blind | Jun 21 2023 23:58 utc | 120 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 22 2023 0:28 utc | 126 Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2023 20:47 utc | 86 Posted by: Milites | Jun 22 2023 0:30 utc | 127 RED ARMY DRIVE ON; Counter-Offensive Dents Nazis’ Orel Salient on Two Sides FOE’S TANKS ROUTED 28-Mile Gain Reported in Continuing Battle — Bryansk in Peril RED ARMY DRIVE ON, 110 TOWNS RETAKEN Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 22 2023 0:32 utc | 128 @ Ghost of Zanon | Jun 22 2023 0:08 utc | 122
Yet another false claim. Posted by: whirlX | Jun 22 2023 0:39 utc | 129 reply to 121 Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 22 2023 0:39 utc | 130 dh | Jun 22 2023 0:12 utc | 123 Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 0:48 utc | 131 @ blind | Jun 21 2023 23:58 utc | 120 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 0:55 utc | 132 @ Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 19:46 utc | 59 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Jun 22 2023 1:01 utc | 133 @ Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:34 utc | 55 Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 22 2023 1:07 utc | 134 @ hankster | Jun 21 2023 20:12 utc | 72 Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 22 2023 1:17 utc | 135 @ Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 22 2023 0:08 utc | 122 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Jun 22 2023 1:20 utc | 136 Some videos for today. Posted by: Nate | Jun 22 2023 1:21 utc | 137 The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 0:48 utc | 131 Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2023 1:32 utc | 138
I don’t think “sitting in defense” works very well at all. Originally the idea of an all-out attack was precisely that that sitting around doing nothing is ultimately a losing game regardless for AFU. And actually, they weren’t sitting around “doing nothing”, they were always attacking in piecemeal packets all over the map, gaining very little to nothing at all and losing stuff. So they decided to throw the dice with everything at once. Another reason is of course political, attack or Nato/sponsor loses interest. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 22 2023 1:35 utc | 139 RE De-dollarization Here is Kenyan President William Ruto, the subtitles screw up the name of the bank. It the Afreximbank ( African export and import bank ). Posted by: deal | Jun 22 2023 1:50 utc | 140 Posted by: Marvin | Jun 21 2023 18:43 utc | 34
Meaning nothing. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 1:58 utc | 141 AFU was driven out of the village, Piatihatky again. They can enter, accumulate for their assumed attack and then are bombed out time after time, which has happen at least a week now?
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 22 2023 2:00 utc | 142 Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 20:17 utc | 74 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 2:03 utc | 143 Re: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 18:00 utc | 28 Posted by: Julian | Jun 22 2023 2:05 utc | 144 I’m reminded of the words of the great Australian diplomat Tony Abbot who wanted to shirtfront Putin. Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:06 utc | 145 Can someone tell me when Russia is going to start fighting like this is a real war, e.g. carpet bombing etc? Posted by: Organic | Jun 22 2023 2:07 utc | 146 Mazel Tov on your Jewish Fuehher, aka the most Influential Jew (the first!) in 2022, according to the Jerusalem Post. One wonders whether the Jerusalem Post assessed also the homoerotic dancing skills of the Numero One. Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 22 2023 2:16 utc | 147 The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:06 utc | 145 Posted by: dh | Jun 22 2023 2:18 utc | 148 Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 20:17 utc | 74 Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:19 utc | 149 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 22 2023 2:00 utc | 142 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 2:29 utc | 150 I often ponder why I bother typing my thoughts and feelings up into the web, only for them to become archived ramblings in less than 24 hours as the next new thread is opened and everyone scrambles for notoriety anew. And on and on it goes, not making a scrap of difference to the SMO, or indeed any aspect of the world as we know it. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 22 2023 2:43 utc | 151 youtube took down rfk jr new hampshire speech. “private video” maybe it is… he’s for bringing them home and i got the link on this thread yesterday so just letting you know. sorry if ot. bummer. heard he did 3 hours on joe rogan. Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 22 2023 2:51 utc | 152 boobtube took the rfk jr speech down when manchester public tv posted it. Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 22 2023 3:07 utc | 153 dear LoveDonbass @121 Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 22 2023 3:08 utc | 154 or i got it wrong. Dolphin @145 Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 22 2023 3:11 utc | 155 The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:06 utc | 145 Posted by: ZimZum | Jun 22 2023 3:13 utc | 156 Introspective. Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 3:23 utc | 157 The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:19 utc | 149 Posted by: ZimZum | Jun 22 2023 3:25 utc | 158 Latest Napolitano… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 3:29 utc | 159 Re: de dollarization Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2023 3:32 utc | 160 you never know who your writing may touch and move. Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 3:35 utc | 161 Scott Ritter on Richard Medhurst…two hours ago…2 hours 11 minutes long (probably Medhurst alone for last X minutes) Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 3:36 utc | 162 The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:19 utc | 149 Posted by: chu teh | Jun 22 2023 3:48 utc | 164 George Galloway’s MOATS (Mother Of All Talk Shows) live show today with Scott Ritter on the Ukraine offensive and Garland Nizon on the Hunter Biden legal deal.
Gorgeous George always worth a listen – if you have the two hours, ten minutes. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 3:52 utc | 165 There’s a U.S. civilian government Earth observing satellite program that is now over 50 years old. It had acquired millions of multi-spectral images of the planet since 1972. The small budgeted civilian agency that operates and disseminates these images likes to show “change pair” (or more than two) images of land change events that are in the news. Its good PR for the satellite system and its longevity which has actually been very useful in observing land change over time. You would think that the failure of a major river dam and the subsequent emptying of its reservoir would be great stuff for a “before” and “after” series of images. You would think. But it hasn’t happened. Hmmmmm… why not? Perhaps the subject is deemed “too controversial” to publish officially by this agency– its leaders abhor controversy, probably stemming from that its small budget is chump change in DC and piss off the wrong people and you’ll have hard days ahead making your payroll and getting your programs done. So no “before” and “after” Kakhovka dam and reservoir from these people. Posted by: DakotaRog | Jun 22 2023 4:01 utc | 166 Canadian antiwar activist Dimitri Lascaris, currently on a cross-country speaking tour for peace, was shut down in tonight’s Toronto venue after pressure from pro-Ukrainians resulted in a last minute shutdown by sellout OPSEU union leadership, who cancelled the room booking. Posted by: John Gilberts | Jun 22 2023 4:07 utc | 168 As usual, total apathy on the part of ‘The Leaders of the Free World’ as the jews butcher Palestinian children in the streets. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 4:24 utc | 169 Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 22 2023 2:19 utc | 149
Some these people have a message to share though. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 4:31 utc | 170 USGS is reporting a 4.7 earthquake 40 miles off the coast of Sevastopol. Also there are earlier reports that there were 2 major explosions in Sevastopol and that all of the lights are out in Sevastopol. Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 22 2023 4:35 utc | 171 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 3:52 utc | 166
I could listen to George all day long – they don’t make them like the used to. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 4:44 utc | 172 Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 22 2023 4:35 utc | 174
And this by an unknown to me blog…
So who knows? Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 5:01 utc | 173 [172] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 22 2023 5:10 utc | 174 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 22 2023 5:10 utc | 177
Regretfully, control cannot be “prised back” by mere voting. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 5:20 utc | 175 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 22 2023 5:20 utc | 178 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 22 2023 5:41 utc | 176 Quoting Cynic: Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 22 2023 5:50 utc | 177 The Financial Times buries the lede again.
The story’s headline reads
https://www.ft.com/content/c30f3bcb-19d7-4f93-87e5-129f28a18172 Posted by: too scents | Jun 22 2023 5:51 utc | 178 In response to Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 22 2023 6:05 utc | 179 Re: Sullivan lecturing Neutrals Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2023 7:09 utc | 180 ‘One wonders what Ms. Nuland brings to the table?’ Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 22 2023 7:14 utc | 181 Chongar bridge to Crimea, in Kherson region, was hit using Storm Shadow, apparently the French version Posted by: rk | Jun 22 2023 7:14 utc | 182 @rk 185 Posted by: AG | Jun 22 2023 7:31 utc | 183 Short German-language text on how US now surpasses EU GDP by 30%, EU without GB even by 50%. Posted by: AG | Jun 22 2023 7:36 utc | 184 So Ursula offered 50 billion euro for Ukraine (over a couple of years), IMF plowing more money and Blinken saying RU will pay for it all. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 22 2023 7:46 utc | 185 Most of the $bn she wants to give are supposed to come from the stolen money from Russia. Ursula herself will present the plan “soon”, so the money can be stolen before the year ends. For the moment they have a bit of a legal problem which I’m sure will be ignored, law is for peasants. Posted by: rk | Jun 22 2023 7:57 utc | 186 So Ursula offered 50 billion euro … Posted by: too scents | Jun 22 2023 7:58 utc | 187 Intelligent Dasein 26 Posted by: Giyane | Jun 22 2023 8:14 utc | 188 Partially destroying a bridge to Crimea exactly on June 22 already shows results for Macaron: Posted by: rk | Jun 22 2023 8:15 utc | 189 @ Posted by: jr | Jun 21 2023 22:02 utc | 103 Posted by: FromFrance | Jun 22 2023 8:37 utc | 190 Europe is going to have trouble with the neighbours long as there are US troops in Europe. Posted by: Passerby | Jun 22 2023 8:47 utc | 191 They wiped out two hundred years of financial responsibility in about 20 years. Posted by: jpc | Jun 22 2023 8:49 utc | 192 So AFU bombed a bridge near Crimea. Maybe a proper response would be a woopsie-event on the British embassy in Kiev, kind of like on the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 22 2023 8:50 utc | 193 The European Commission bankrupting itself is truly the cherry on top. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 22 2023 8:50 utc | 194 You really believe that ?????? Posted by: too scents | Jun 22 2023 8:54 utc | 195 Perhaps relevant: The European Union has agreed to the “intrusive surveillance” of journalists to identify their sources under new draft legislation exemptions demanded by France. Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 22 2023 9:19 utc | 196 Posted by: AG | Jun 22 2023 7:36 utc | 187 Posted by: badjoke | Jun 22 2023 9:28 utc | 197 Intel Slava Telegram Channel Reports.. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 22 2023 9:35 utc | 198 https://t.me/intelslava/49085 Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 22 2023 9:41 utc | 199 From 202 above: Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2023 9:44 utc | 200 |
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