Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues here.
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June 21, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-147
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
UKRAINE’S RECENT OFFENSIVE: Posted by: young | Jun 21 2023 15:53 utc | 1 Well this is a first! Posted by: Jonathan Mills | Jun 21 2023 15:55 utc | 2 Watching Dima’s Military Summary channel, he seems to be saying that the UAF had to redeploy/move a lot of their battalions/brigades away from the border with Belarus to patch gaps in the Donetsk front. He then speculates that maybe they have some hope that foreign troops would come in as “peacekeepers” or something to block a move from Belarus to the north. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 16:00 utc | 3 Ghost of Zanon @ 4 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 16:10 utc | 4 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 16:10 utc | 5 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 16:20 utc | 5 The USA’s favourite puppet in the economic war against Russia and China, Australia, continues to do a Westminster (Brexit) and damage its economy for the sake of appeasing the the maniacs in the Whitehouse. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 21 2023 16:27 utc | 6 Play-acting in Ukrainian
To prove the point, Slavyangrad posts this video. Five Ukrainian soldiers are driving a SUV speaking Ukrainian and bragging about something. Later the video shows one of them wounded. Evidently the SUV hit a mine or something. All the brave Ukrainians have switched to speaking their native Russian.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 21 2023 16:36 utc | 7 I have to wonder if the AFU is slowly and surreptitiously moving a big chunk of the best of its force back to areas where they can be concealed. British and American tanks being among the “designated survivors”, along with the most loyal troops. Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 21 2023 16:38 utc | 8 The Biden crew is just playing for time. They believe that as long as the war continues, they can win the next election with a “war president.” Because the Russians are trying to minimize casualties, they are not likely to force surrender terms on Ukraine until after the U.S. election. When Ukraine finally collapses, Washington will shove the disaster down the memory hole, just as it did with Afghanistan, and move on to conflict with China. Posted by: HH | Jun 21 2023 16:39 utc | 9 Am interested in exploring with the many thoughtful brethren among b’s barflies potential steps or measures that might still avert (or at least brake) what increasingly resembles a 1914-style drift into WW3. Posted by: Paul Damascene | Jun 21 2023 16:50 utc | 10 Sometimes it is good to visit the past: Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 21 2023 16:52 utc | 11 Re: Organ Harvesting and worse Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 16:53 utc | 12 An excellent summary of West Point’s analysis of Russia military… Simplicius Posted by: zeke2u | Jun 21 2023 16:57 utc | 13 You are all trying to ascribe rational intent and logic to the actions of the western political and economic elites. There is none. They are poisoned by the critical theory virus and other scientisms. The masses are driven by emotions, malice and nothing will be supported unless it glorifies some aspect of a person’s individual identity. Posted by: alek_a | Jun 21 2023 16:57 utc | 14 The Biden crew is just playing for time. They believe that as long as the war continues, they can win the next election with a “war president.” Because the Russians are trying to minimize casualties, they are not likely to force surrender terms on Ukraine until after the U.S. election. When Ukraine finally collapses, Washington will shove the disaster down the memory hole, just as it did with Afghanistan, and move on to conflict with China. Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 17:06 utc | 15
Zarichne within reach, which can automatically collapse everything east of Zherebets reservoir (Yampolivka and Terny) and split the AFU front in Kupyansk from the AFU front in Seversk. Recall that AFU deployed a lot of stuff to Kreminna forest which couldn’t be easily deployed to north, i.e. Kupyansk anymore. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 17:10 utc | 16 Why doesn’t Putin do this? Why doesn’t Russia do that? Why doesn’t Putin shoot a nuke out of his dick aimed right at the Whitehouse? Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Jun 21 2023 17:25 utc | 17 “Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 17:06 utc | 16” Posted by: Comandante | Jun 21 2023 17:28 utc | 18 Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Jun 21 2023 17:25 utc | 18 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 17:39 utc | 19 Posted by: Comandante | Jun 21 2023 17:28 utc | 19 Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 21 2023 17:41 utc | 20 Helmer on the debate in Moscow on de-militarisation and de-nazification. Posted by: bevin | Jun 21 2023 17:43 utc | 21 ‘The USA’s favourite puppet in the economic war against Russia and China, Australia, continues to do a Westminster (Brexit) and damage its economy for the sake of appeasing the the maniacs in the Whitehouse.’ Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 21 2023 17:43 utc | 22 Posted by: Comandante | Jun 21 2023 17:28 utc | 19 Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 17:47 utc | 23 Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 17:47 utc | 24 Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 21 2023 17:51 utc | 24 Don’t get complacent. If the Ukrainian forces appear to be quieting down, that only means that somebody has another Nord Stream, Kakhovka Dam, or drone attack on the Kremlin up their sleeve. The Ukrainians never abandon a plan once conceived, even if it will (and does) cost them everything. If they appear to be backing off, it’s only so that they can rush at you again with renewed force. Ukrainians have all the subtlety of a swarm of hornets. Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Jun 21 2023 17:55 utc | 25
Doesn’t look good for AFU in this AFU front. This is on the heels of over 2 weeks of fruitless and (potentially fatally) expensive attacks in the south. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 17:59 utc | 26 Ghost of Zanon @ 6
They’ll leave the nukes in Belarus to hold the fort, a bold bordering on reckless move that would be a message and red line only a mega fool couldn’t understand, but there too the Russians have to consider who the are dealing with. I don’t see an other way to take Kharkov if the UKR state doesn’t implode on its own soon. Russia will never have security in the Belgorod and Kursk areas unless it takes Kharkov and Sumy, that’s not up for grabs, Putin recently much said as much talking about a required buffer, those cities would be the buffer. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 18:00 utc | 27 Jonathan Mills @ 2 Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 21 2023 18:01 utc | 28 Per Prighozin: Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 18:02 utc | 29 Thanks b for the briliant job you are doing, writing and keeping this blog alive. And also thanks to (most) of you who are writing here. Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 21 2023 18:11 utc | 30 @Ghost of Zanon #4 Posted by: OohCanada | Jun 21 2023 18:13 utc | 31 The US cannot just memory-hole the war in Ukraine and move on to China. Defeating Russia is a prerequisite for defeating China. If the US cannot destroy Russia, then they cannot choke China with a naval blockade. That means America’s only hope for taking down China would be a land war in China, and that idea is so ridiculous it isn’t even considered by America’s stink tankers and swamp creatures. Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 18:33 utc | 32 Danish TV-station TV2 reports that the NS2-leak may have been caused by a tiny amount of explosives. As in tiny enough to fit on a tiny boat hired by a bunch of Ukrainians. Posted by: Marvin | Jun 21 2023 18:43 utc | 33 Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 18:02 utc | 30 Posted by: catdog | Jun 21 2023 18:44 utc | 34 William Gruff @ 33
I wonder if the Japanese are to be the new Ukrainians. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 18:44 utc | 35 zinjanthropus @ 30 / catdog @ 35 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 18:57 utc | 36 The Sarmat complexes with a new heavy missile will take up combat duty in Russia. Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 18:59 utc | 37 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 16:00 utc | 4
I have never once seen from anyone official saying that Russian forces in Belarus ever numbered more than the reported 10-12,000.
Also…
Re the Regional Group of Forces, the European Parliament released a document:
From another probably unreliable source, I read:
The latest information I can find – June 3, 2023 – comes from Prensa Latina, the official Cuban news agency:
They also reported this on May 29: Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:01 utc | 38 Putin recently much said as much talking about a required buffer, those cities would be the buffer. Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 19:02 utc | 39 Can someone tell me when Russia is going to start fighting like this is a real war, e.g. carpet bombing etc? Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:06 utc | 40 Per Prighozin: Posted by: Wim | Jun 21 2023 19:07 utc | 41 There are roughly 10 million Ukrainian citizens living in the EU. Approx 5 Million fled Ukraine 2014-2022 and 5 million arrived after 1.1. 2022. Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 19:07 utc | 42 What is an ERROR 503, and why was that all I could get when I tried to log into MoA this morning.? Posted by: Ed | Jun 21 2023 19:08 utc | 43 Posted by: bevin | Jun 21 2023 17:43 utc | 22 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:10 utc | 44 So in post #2 the “why doesn’t Russia carpet bomb!!!” Posted by: comrade simba | Jun 21 2023 19:13 utc | 45 Large (?) number of AFU reserves destined for Zaporozhye front supposedly destroyed in the Zaporozhye railhead complex.
Good intel is worth every platinum penny.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 19:15 utc | 46 Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 18:02 utc | 30 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:15 utc | 47 What these idiots need to do Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 19:21 utc | 48 Andrei Martyanov posting at VK about Karaganov and his nonsense…
Read the rest – it’s a beautiful takedown. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:22 utc | 49 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:15 utc | 46 Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:23 utc | 50 It should be, Prigozin’s ‘talks” could be just a maskirovka… Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:24 utc | 51 “Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 18:02 utc | 30 Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 19:26 utc | 52 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 16:00 utc | 4 Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 19:27 utc | 53 Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 19:26 utc | 51 Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:31 utc | 54 I don’t believe the polls claiming most Americans favor continuing the war..likely they are fake/manipulated..The Ukraine flags have entirely disappeared in the States I travel in, and the people I have talked with want the war to end… Posted by: pyrrhus | Jun 21 2023 19:31 utc | 55 From Lavrov…
Meanwhile, Putin met with military academy graduates…These are the schools Martyanov constantly talks about – where you get a REAL military education…
One of the graduates responded:
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:34 utc | 56 Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:23 utc | 49 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:36 utc | 57 From Lavrov… Let NATO fight Posted by: too scents | Jun 21 2023 19:39 utc | 58 At the moment we are seeing a certain lull. This is due to the fact that the enemy suffers serious losses – both in personnel and in equipment. As of yesterday evening, to be more precise, tonight – I’m not talking about the losses of personnel, they are very significant – our men “pricked” 245 enemy tanks and about 678 armored vehicles of various types. Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:45 utc | 59 @ William Gruff, §33: Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 19:46 utc | 60 @ OohCanada | Jun 21 2023 18:13 utc | 32 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 19:46 utc | 61 joke of the week is EU UK attempts to encourage investment in Ukraine. Posted by: hankster | Jun 21 2023 19:48 utc | 62 TG rumors say Romania will host the f16 base and pilots for Ukr. Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 19:51 utc | 63 Ukrainian troops understand they don’t stand a chance against Russian forces — Putin Posted by: rerepost | Jun 21 2023 19:54 utc | 64 Shoot the son-of-a-bitch. Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 19:58 utc | 65 Hankster no. 61 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 21 2023 19:59 utc | 66 “Well, let them fight, we are ready for this, we have long understood the goals of NATO in the situation around Ukraine, which have been formed for many years.” Posted by: Doim | Jun 21 2023 19:59 utc | 67 @ Richard Steven Hack, §46: Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:02 utc | 68 ”Bank error in your favor”. Posted by: FromFrance | Jun 21 2023 20:03 utc | 69 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 19:15 utc | 46 Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jun 21 2023 20:07 utc | 70 The Ukrainian attacks continue, lots of reserves left although I’d say they’re still on track to be finished by the fall rains. Results aren’t good though even ukraine has been forced to acknowledge slow results even with a little bitterness towards their sponsors. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 21 2023 20:08 utc | 71 @ hankster | Jun 21 2023 19:48 utc | 61 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 20:10 utc | 72 68 I hope a pentagon accountant can help me with my tax return Posted by: hankster | Jun 21 2023 20:12 utc | 73 Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 19:07 utc | 41 Posted by: 600w | Jun 21 2023 20:15 utc | 74 @John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:02 utc | 67 Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 20:17 utc | 75 In the words of the classics, “The enemy’s plans have completely failed, completely.” Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 21 2023 20:19 utc | 76 Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:02 utc | 67 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 20:19 utc | 77 @ whirlX, §71: Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:21 utc | 78 Posted by: HH | Jun 21 2023 16:39 utc | 10 Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 21 2023 20:23 utc | 79 : Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 20:19 utc | 76 Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 20:24 utc | 80 “Hankster no. 61 Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 20:25 utc | 81 British Foreign Minister, with a funny surname Cleverley supported the idea of a simplified accession of Ukraine to NATO. Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 20:29 utc | 82 §71 error: Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:29 utc | 83 @Hankster 71 Posted by: FromFrance | Jun 21 2023 20:33 utc | 84 Paul Damascene | Jun 21 2023 16:50 utc | 11– Interesting take on the technology advances made with the Lancet-3 vs the Lancet-1 Russian drone, and why it can take out Western tanks like the Leopard. @ John Marks | Jun 21 2023 20:02 utc | 67
Exactly. Those are his roles, true, and to add another one; he is the character that must make Russians angry. Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 20:48 utc | 88 John Marks @59: “I think the Yanks have already lined up the Japs to next meat for the grinder.” Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 20:50 utc | 89 I think I’ve though of the perfect metaphor for the Ukrainian Spring/Summer counteroffensive. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 20:53 utc | 90 War to the last ukrainian Posted by: Crazy chump | Jun 21 2023 20:55 utc | 91 @ Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 20:53 utc | 90 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 20:55 utc | 92 whirlX @88: “…he is the character that must make Russians angry.” Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 20:56 utc | 93 A hat tip to this guy, I saw this on news and on TG and it went right past me, granted I didn’t know it was a USA building. Definitely more here than meets the eye. The mess the west started is getting messier, maybe exactly what they wanted. Off hand I’d say an operation gladio event: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 21 2023 21:07 utc | 94 From my understanding I’ve been right about everything. The anal obsessed amerikan empire’s key figure Blackrock (stealing your money without blinking an eye) has their claws into everything Ukraine. Posted by: gringo | Jun 21 2023 21:16 utc | 95 pyrrhus @ 54 Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 21 2023 21:19 utc | 96 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 21 2023 17:39 utc | 20 Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Jun 21 2023 21:30 utc | 97 ‼️“Meat grinder near Novodonetsky”: DPR soldiers burned a column of NATO armored vehicles and seized US special forces armored vehicles received by the Armed Forces of Ukraine Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 21:47 utc | 98 @Karlof1, Posted by: FromFrance | Jun 21 2023 21:49 utc | 99 DeathToAmerica | Jun 21 2023 21:30 utc | 98 Posted by: Concerned Citizen | Jun 21 2023 21:55 utc | 100 |
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