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June 20, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-146
Comments
Russia: if Ukraine joins NATO, it’s war.
France: we’ll let Ukraine join NATO if Ukraine signs a truce with Russia.
Being disingenious is too soft a word for it.
Posted by: Passerby | Jun 21 2023 9:06 utc | 193
‐—–
Exactly. Please remember that Macron’s assumed (or given) *public role* is to play Good Cop to Stoltenberg’s Bad Cop. Macron doesnt make NATO decisions, so all he’s doing is floating an idea to stir up Zelensky, Russia, MSM, and muddy the waters about “peace vs war” … all to seduce his voters. On one hand he plays the concerned peacemaker, on the other he OBSTRUCTS peace with innane pronouncements.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 9:32 utc | 201
AG | Jun 21 2023 9:13 utc | 198
Yes, thanks for pointing this.
US has prevented Ukraine from being the pivot point between Eastern and Western heritage, leading to strong Euroasian alliance including EU.
EU is much stronger with RF on its side, then having slimy US doing all kind of stuff to disrupt and distort, from afar.
From 2011, same author:
It would be an added benefit for all Europeans if, as a result of the latest economic crisis, Ukrainian elites realized the pivotal contribution they could make to European security by recasting Ukrainian identity from that of a border region (Russia’s border with Europe; Europe’s border with Russia) into a European cultural center bridging its Eastern and Western halves.
Ideological competition is not only unnecessary, it is a dead end. Still, envisioning an integral Europe that includes Russia has proved to be no easy task. It can be made somewhat easier, however, by regarding it as process of mutual rediscovery. Seen in this light, the ending of Russia’s cultural isolation from Europe could also help to revitalize Western identity and, as German president Roman Herzog put it, lead to the healing of Europe’s soul.
“We have a better idea!” – US, probably.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 9:32 utc | 202
Romanian and Polish forces.
This immense ground force is essentially going to prevent Russia from achieving its SMO goals.
Posted by: Zanon | Jun 21 2023 8:17 utc | 181
Peskov said the demilitarization goal almost done (tass.com/politics/1634505). Denazi can be finished next week, no one can measure it. You can’t say that something will “prevent Russia from achieving its SMO goals” since Russians themselves call it finished.
Romania has no army and Poland can’t produce more than 100k for an invasion, as attackers/kamikaze. It’s as small as Duda’s sausage. The 5 soldiers Russia is using in their little smo are easily blocked by ukro kamikazes, as you can see they don’t advance a single meter. What RO and PL could actually do is get involved in Lvov and Moldova but not alone, only with lots of nato planes and missiles.
Eventually something like Syria is going to happen, it’s a fact guaranteed by the weak and tiny smo. And Erdo can’t wait to place a few of his own bases too.
Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 9:36 utc | 203
Posted by: too scents | Jun 21 2023 7:32 utc | 171
Just go to Tahiti and eat raw fish …
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 21 2023 9:38 utc | 204
@whirlX 203
thx
what I find interesting about Petro is his “unrelenting” optimism.
At least in interviews he suggests that, looking at his family but also in general, the youth of coming generations usually tends to forget and just disregard the hatred and sentiments of their parents.
They just have their own reality.
And that would offer reaon for hope.
Posted by: AG | Jun 21 2023 9:46 utc | 205
As The Duran said more than a week ago, Polish forces in Ukraine will herald the deployment of US forces in Ukraine.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 9:47 utc | 206
GT Stroller @195
They can vote out Biden, but can they vote out the war party? Or at least vote someone into office that will stop everything from literally going to crap in the big cities. Not even loudmouth Trump was able to “drain the swamp” and Make America Great Again. Meanwhile, the “dictatorship” in China was able to turn a piss-poor country into the world’s largest economy within a few decades and trust in the government is excellent. What good is being able to vote if the choice is between disaster and catastrophe.
Posted by: aquileia | Jun 21 2023 9:48 utc | 207
Posted by: Zanon | Jun 21 2023 8:17 utc | 181
Good luck with that. And did Dima bother to provide any evidence for this assertion? Thought not.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 9:50 utc | 208
Posted by: Jj | Jun 21 2023 8:35 utc | 185
Nothing said here is a viable option for anyone, including the posters here. That includes me.
So who cares whether we discuss nuclear war? What matters is when the neocons discuss nuclear war.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 9:53 utc | 209
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 8:34 utc | 184
I don’t see Erdogan being that stupid. He’s reckless but not an idiot, as least not as compared with say, Blinken or Biden or Scholz or Macron.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 9:55 utc | 210
Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 9:07 utc | 195
.. If the US american people don’t like what Biden says, they can vote him out after a few years.
The people of China don’t get that sort of option with Xi Jinping.
Thank goodness they don’t.
Or they’ll be stuck with one or other corrupt windbag like biden or trump.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 21 2023 9:56 utc | 211
If there was any doubt as to who is pushing the war, here is your answer.
“In a series of covertly-recorded meetings, recruiter Serge Varlay describes how BlackRock – the world’s largest asset manager – is able to “run the world,” and that it’s easier to pull off shenanigans when “people aren’t thinking about it.”
According to Varlay, US Senators can be ‘bought’ for as little as $10k.
“The senators…are f***ing cheap – you got 10 grand, you can buy a senator,” he remarked.
You can take this big f*** ton of money and buy people, I work for a company called BlackRock…It’s not who is the president it’s who is controlling the wallet of the president. You could buy your candidates. First, there is the senators these guys are fuckin cheap. Got 10 grand you can buy a senator I’ll give you 500k right now It doesn’t matter who wins they’re in my pocket. -OMG
Blackrock is also apparently loving the war in Ukraine, which Varley described as “real fuckin’ good for business.”
Ukraine is good for business, you know that right? Russia blows up Ukraine’s grain silos and the price of wheat is going to go mad up. The Ukrainian economy is the wheat market. The price of bread goes up, this is fantastic if you’re trading. Volatility creates opportunity for profit…
According to Varley, it’s “exciting when shit goes wrong.”
“So what are you gonna do if you’re a trading firm? The moment that news hits, within a millisecond, you’re going to pump trades into whoever the wheat suppliers are. Into their stocks. Within an hour or two that stick goes f*cking up and then you sell and you just make, I don’t know, however many mil,” he continued. “The Ukrainian economy is tied very largely to the wheat market, global wheat market, prices of bread, you know, literally everything goes up and down. This is fantastic if you’re trading.
“Volatility creates opportunity to make profit. War is real fucking good for business.”
Watch:
BREAKING: @BlackRock Recruiter Who “Decides People’s Fate” Spills Info on Company’s World Impact
“It’s not who the president is- it’s who’s controlling the wallet of the president”
“You got $10K? You can buy a senator”
“War is real f***ing good for business” #BlackRockExposed pic.twitter.com/DZIy1DuZKF
— James O’Keefe (@JamesOKeefeIII) June 20, 2023
As the Post Millennial notes, Varley also described himself as a person who “decide[s] people’s fates.”
“Every f*cking day, I literally decide how somebody’s life is going to be shaped,” he said. “I’m not actually a finance guy, I just know what happens because I’m recruiting people who do these things.”
More via the PM:
Varlay said these banks run the world because “you acquire stuff. You diversify, you acquire, you keep acquiring. You spend whatever you make in acquiring more. And at a certain point, your risk level is super low. Imagine you’ve invested in 10 different industries, from food to drinks to technology. If one of them fails it doesn’t matter, you have nine others to back you up.”
Varlay said that once “you own a little bit of everything… you can take this big f*ck-ton of money and then you can start to buy people.””
Posted by: Pudding | Jun 21 2023 10:06 utc | 212
@ AG | Jun 21 2023 9:46 utc | 206
For political philosophy and sane multi-cutural theories, the Simone Weil Center is pretty ok. Some cool people are tied to it.
Very nice rebuke of Applebaum-Goldberg mumbling usual Nazi stuff there, too.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 10:09 utc | 213
@ Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 9:55 utc | 211
Erdo has a bag of multiple problems that he cannot really figure out how to solve. Syria, inflation, a pretty radical cabinet wanting to get rid of US and NATO, Greece tensions, Kurds, EU, refugees…you name it.
If bribed well by Blinky and the gang, he remains a pretty shady character that might do anything at any time.
So far he is quiet, but I doubt that he will stay so for a long time.
What I understand, he is busy protecting his South Stream pipeline, still lending his AWACS to NATO over the Black Sea from time to time.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 10:15 utc | 214
re: nukes –
A thread which says it collected current RU statements on this discussion (re: Karaganov)
https://twitter.com/HannaNotte/status/1671421325930315776
But please keep in mind, these Twitter people belong mostly to the totally crazy lot. Whenever I look there my blood pressure goes “Turbo” to borrow a term from “Wreck-it Ralph”
Posted by: AG | Jun 21 2023 10:27 utc | 215
Reuters: Ukraine released video of its top commander, apparently to rebut Russian suggestions that he had been killed, injured or had fled, and his Star Wars badge stole the show (…) video showed Zaluzhnyi in combat uniform sporting a badge of Grogu, the pale green, pointy-eared hero best known as “Baby Yoda” from the hit Disney Star Wars TV show “The Mandalorian”.
Can it get more vomit inducing? Yes, a movie about Zeli by Disney!
Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 10:29 utc | 216
By the way, anyone who doesn’t yet believe in AI avatars and ability to create something like that out of Zaluzhny or Budanov, check out this stream (warning though, the content is rather harsh but it’s an parody AI generated election debate between AI Trump and AI Biden).
https://www.twitch.tv/trumporbiden2024
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 10:34 utc | 217
@ -> AG | Jun 21 2023 10:27 utc | 216
That discussion is real and has some impact on discourse taken, probably leading to updating RF’s nuclear doctrine.
Seems a bit pressured call to an action, but I think the USA madness is the reason for it.
Ilya Fabrichnikov’s rebuke to Karaganov is what she left out.
It was first published on RT on 16th June 2023, now a bit hard to find it there. Well written, though.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 10:40 utc | 218
@ Xin Loi, §118:
Germany has already changed sides.
Only the American government-of-occupation in Berlin hasn´t.
The German “government” are dead-men (& women) walking.
Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 10:42 utc | 219
Posted by: Pudding | Jun 21 2023 10:06 utc | 213
So he just explained how the world has worked for, oh, the last few dozen centuries at least. The same thing happens in every country.
Reminds me of the movie “That Man In Istanbul”, where Horst Buchholz (look him up) was a club owner in Istanbul who got involved with spies. His schtick was periodically he would look out at the movie audience and say, “Happens to all us, sooner or later.”
So now it’s happening to the US – it’s owned by an oligarchy. It was inevitable.
As I’ve said before, the only answer is to shoot enough people – the right people.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 10:51 utc | 220
They don’t have to fake it, there must be lots of videos and photos taken for propaganda and kept for later use. There is nothing that can date that video and if it is, it can be censored with a blur. Mark Hamil from original Star Wars was a fanatic nazi supporter since the first day. The Disney-Ukr connection seems real, not limited to half-actors like old fart Hamil who pours green liquids on his face for money.
Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 10:53 utc | 221
Today in Haaretz: Zionist Military Org’s Efforts to Recruit Nazis in Fight Against the British Are Revealed. The Haganah interrogated members of the Lehi in 1942 — and the recently released transcripts shed light on a dark chapter in the right-wing militia’s history: ‘Stern said that in war, there’s no room for sentiment’
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-21/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/zionist-military-org-efforts-to-recruit-nazis-in-fight-against-the-british-are-revealed/00000188-d93a-d5fc-ab9d-db7ae0ea0000
Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 10:53 utc | 222
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 8:34 utc | 184
With partners like these, who needs enemies
Putin has a talent in choosing the right partners
Our western partners…..)))))
So Erdo will 109% stab in russians back if the opportunity presrnt itself
Posted by: moon2day | Jun 21 2023 10:57 utc | 223
@ Tim2, §147:
Thought the Zatoka bridge was blown during last winter.
Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 11:10 utc | 224
A re-cap on how I see it.
Simple but some times simple is best….
So the US and England invented Russia as their enemy..
Provoked that enemy with a military build up in several country’s on Russias borders.
Used US, England’s and western countrys tax and future debet burden to do the above.
Mind controlled the public into hating Russia and Russians, ‘public perseption manigment’.
Having manifested a non-existent enemy into a real tangible threat, they the elite expect us to meekly and silently walk over the cliff edge of apocalypse and conflagration without complaint.
Riiight.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 11:10 utc | 225
“Ukrainian People’s Deputy Alexei Goncharenko, known for his involvement in the massacre of Odessans in the House of Trade Unions in May 2014, made a statement on the “nuclear” topic. According to Goncharenko, the West should either allow Ukraine to start developing its nuclear program or place their nuclear weapons on Ukrainian territory”
Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 11:11 utc | 226
Of course the elite could just pack their shit up and go home.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 11:12 utc | 227
Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 9:07 utc | 195
.. If the US american people don’t like what Biden says, they can vote him out after a few years.
The people of China don’t get that sort of option with Xi Jinping.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 11:12 utc | 228
@ moon2day | Jun 21 2023 10:57 utc | 224
Yes.
Putin and the crew are making the difference in “our Western partners and colleagues” (cynical) to “our allies” (sincere).
It is a rhetoric embedded in Russian diplomatic school ever since 60s, where it is made pretty distinguishable when spoken in Russian.
Nuances are lost in translation.
Still, Putin and Lavrov did call Erdo an “ally”, not “our Southern partner”, so they do trust him.
However, when that nomination changes, we’ll definitely know what is Erdo really about.
I can imagine him going for BRICS, but I do not know that.
If he retreats his 20 years old EU membership application soon, that could indicate a move towards BRICS.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 11:14 utc | 229
When in doubt, call someone with more than 51% popularity over 5 years a dictator.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 11:12 utc | 229
US presidents often serve two terms = 8 years. UK prime ministers lasted longer than now before the sore losers started trying to reverse the people’s decision to leave the EU.
But the point about Xi Jinping is that the rules have been changed to make him president for life. So putting him alongside Putin who does have to face the electorate doesn’t really work. As for his alleged popularity, that’s more a product of the negative consequences for you and yours of doing anything other than singing his praises, frequently. Check out the ‘Clap for Xi Jinping’ website. Or ask any of the people who’ve been forced to make televised confessions of their ‘crimes’.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 11:35 utc | 230
@ catdog #22
“The only questions now are how long the lifeline will be maintained and how long the citizens will tolerate the government that pushed them into this pit of horrors.”
The government pushed them into a “pit of horrors” by not immediately surrendering to the Russian invasion? True, Putin did not count on NATO having the time or the resolve to offer aid to Ukraine. Which just shows how ill-conceived this campaign was from the outset.
Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | Jun 21 2023 11:36 utc | 231
“video showed Zaluzhnyi in combat uniform sporting a badge of Grogu, the pale green, pointy-eared hero best known as “Baby Yoda” from the hit Disney Star Wars TV show “The Mandalorian”.
rk | Jun 21 2023 10:29 utc | 217
Banders should remove all Russian language books from their national library and replace them with The Life of Donald Duck and Star Wars merchandises.
It’s so much more interesting than the works of Pushkin, Gogol, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, those infamous Putin henchmen.
Posted by: America is defeated | Jun 21 2023 11:43 utc | 232
I don’t see Erdogan being that stupid. He’s reckless but not an idiot, as least not as compared with say, Blinken or Biden or Scholz or Macron.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 9:55 utc | 211
To me, Erdogan is similar to Orban and Modi. Each of them is a piece of work, but has a concept of big picture that combines ideology, economy, necessity of independent decisions and the feeling what people of the country (at least a majority) want. Concept and will. Compare to Macron and Trump, each in his own way aware that some things are OK, but betray neither understanding and ability to change them. Macron is more conventional, so it has a penchant for doing things people in his country do not want.
Ideology may be a lamentable aspect, but running a country requires uniting ideas to make a large group working with you and voting for you. Liberal ideology could be OK, but it degenerates with hypocrisy and fomenting weird wedge issues like how many letters deserve pride, how to regulate who can compete in sports with whom and so on.
On economy, my impression is that the dominant groups in the West have all the expertise of headless chicken.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 21 2023 11:55 utc | 233
……I think most of these preppers who think living on a rural farm is the only way to go are going to be in for a surprise how hard that is to do if you haven’t grown up doing it.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 7:15 utc | 169…….
———————
Precisely that’s why you want to find yourself a farmgal. 🙂
Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 11:55 utc | 234
Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 11:10 utc | 225 “Thought the Zatoka bridge was blown during last winter.”
This is the most recent thing I found on the bridge. It is from May 7, 2023. The Russians attacked it again. That must be 8 or 9 times. This claims they finally got it.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1655320037702397952
Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 12:09 utc | 235
Posted by: John Marks | Jun 21 2023 11:10 utc | 225 “Thought the Zatoka bridge was blown during last winter.”
This is the most recent thing I found on the bridge. It is from May 7, 2023. The Russians attacked it again. That must be 8 or 9 times. This claims they finally got it.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1655320037702397952
Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 12:09 utc | 236
An all-out full-scale nuclear strike makes sense only if launched without warning — that is, in the hope of vitiating any retaliatory strike.
I therefore trust that all this talk about air tickets to Montevideo, driving to Mexico, or even reaching the nearest subway tunnel is facetious. One will be lucky to have ten minutes’ worth of warning.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 12:36 utc | 237
An all-out full-scale nuclear strike makes sense only if launched without warning — that is, in the hope of vitiating any retaliatory strike.
I therefore trust that all this talk about air tickets to Montevideo, driving to Mexico, or even reaching the nearest subway tunnel is facetious. One will be lucky to have ten minutes’ worth of warning.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 12:37 utc | 238
An all-out full-scale nuclear strike makes sense only if launched without warning — that is, in the hope of vitiating any retaliatory strike.
I therefore trust that all this talk about air tickets to Montevideo, driving to Mexico, or even reaching the nearest subway tunnel is facetious. One will be lucky to have ten minutes’ worth of warning.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 12:38 utc | 239
An all-out full-scale nuclear strike makes sense only if launched without warning — that is, in the hope of vitiating any retaliatory strike.
I therefore trust that all this talk about air tickets to Montevideo, driving to Mexico, or even reaching the nearest subway tunnel is facetious. One will be lucky to have ten minutes’ worth of warning.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 12:38 utc | 240
An all-out full-scale nuclear strike makes sense only if launched without warning — that is, in the hope of vitiating any retaliatory strike.
I therefore trust that all this talk about air tickets to Montevideo, driving to Mexico, or even reaching the nearest subway tunnel is facetious. One will be lucky to have ten minutes’ worth of warning.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 12:39 utc | 241
……I think most of these preppers who think living on a rural farm is the only way to go are going to be in for a surprise how hard that is to do if you haven’t grown up doing it.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 7:15 utc | 169…….
———————
Precisely that’s why you want to find yourself a farmgal. 🙂
Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 11:55 utc | 235
This whole go back to the farm thing is an antique idea that no longer applies. Farming has gone industrial. How exactly do you go back to the farm when the “farm” is a place where the cows are numbered in the thousands and keeping them fed is done with repurposed earth moving equipment? I am from a farm background and I know enough about what would be needed to know that I couldn’t go primitive, let alone some city guy. Up here in the frozen north, challenge one would be getting through the first year, and few people would manage to do that.
If the nukes hit, if the radiation isn’t a killer, the next killer will be industrial society shutting down. North of Mexico, we have a population that is around a hundred times larger than was present when Columbus discovered the New World. So, when we all go primitive, what happens to the surplus 99% of the population?
Posted by: Jmaas | Jun 21 2023 12:44 utc | 242
Hi Orgel @ 187,
I’ll guess because Ursula Von der Leyen and the EU Commission did not fork over all that cash to purchase graveyards? Or a radioactive wasteland? (On the part of this jungle, to use the colloquial term for rain forest, present along Canada’s West Coast un-rain forested elsewhere, bills are generally paid promptly to that garden. )
To all those concerned citizens of the USA, I really think you don’t need to seduce an unsuspecting farm girl. Canada and Mexico have your back in this one, we’ll find something edible to provide. For those looking for more fancy provisions, Team Von der Leyen will be happy to take care of you, I’m sure!
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 21 2023 14:26 utc | 243
⚡Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
(21 June 2023)
Part I (see Part II (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/7997))
◽️ The Ukrainian Armed Forces have continued their attempts to conduct offensive operations in South Donetsk, Zaporozhye, and Donetsk directions during the previous 24 hours.
◽️ In the area of Vremenka salient, Operational-Tactical Aviation and Army Aviation launched an attack against AFU units near Novodonetskoye, Storozhevoye (Donetsk People’s Republic), Levadnoye (Zaporozhye region).
▫️ As a result of the strikes, a tank, an infantry fighting vehicle, and three armoured fighting vehicles were annihilated.
◽️ In Zaporozhye direction, two attacks by Ukrainian 65th mechanised brigade reinforced by tanks in the areas of Novodanilovka and Yablokovo (Zaporozhye region) were repelled by decisive and competent actions of Vostok Group of Forces, air strikes and artillery fire during the day.
▫️ In addition, enemy reserve columns advancing towards Lobkovoye and Kamenskoye (Zaporozhye region) as well as a manpower and equipment cluster near Belogorye (Zaporozhye region) were engaged by gunfire.
◽️ Three sabotage and reconnaissance groups were also eliminated close to Dorozhniyanka, Gulyai Pole, and Mirnoye (Zaporozhye region).
▫️ Total enemy losses in South Donetsk and Zaporozhye directions overnight were up to 200 Ukrainian servicemen, eight tanks, six infantry fighting vehicles, 13 armoured fighting vehicles, three motor vehicles, two D-20 howitzers, two Msta-B howitzers, as well as one Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer, and one Grad MLRS fighting vehicle.
▫️ In Donetsk direction, the Yug Group of Forces has successfully repelled ten enemy attacks close to Veseloye, Georgiyevka, Pervomayskoye, Krasnogorovka, Vodyanoye, and Marinka (Donetsk People’s Republic) during the past 24 hours.
▫️ Up to 400 Ukrainian troops, a tank, two armoured fighting vehicles, and eight motor vehicles were neutralised during combat.
▫️ In Kupyansk direction, aviation and artillery of the Zapad Group of Forces inflicted a fire damage on the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine close to Berestovoye, Kislovka (Kharkov region), Stelmakhovka (Lugansk People’s Republic).
💥 In addition, actions of three sabotage and reconnaissance groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were thwarted near Sinkovka, Kotlyarovka (Kharkov region) and Novoselovskoye (Lugansk People’s Republic).
◽️ The enemy suffered over 40 Ukrainian troops, an armoured fighting vehicle, and two pick-up trucks in this direction during the day. A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered.
◽️ In Krasny Liman direction, Russian aviation, artillery, and heavy flamethrower systems of the Tsentr Group of Forces hit units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine close to Ploshchanka, Chervonopopovka, Chervonaya Dibrova (Lugansk People’s Republic), Yampolovka, and Grigorovka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
▫️ Also during the day, actions of three Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance groups were foiled close to Chervonaya Dibrova (Lugansk People’s Republic) and in the Serebryansky forestry.
▫️ Up to 135 Ukrainian troops, an infantry fighting vehicle, two armoured fighting vehicles, four pick-up trucks, a D-30 howitzer, and three Gvozdika self-propelled artillery units have been eliminated in this direction during the day. Eight servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered.
▫️ In Kherson direction, over 60 Ukrainian troops, seven motor vehicles, one Akatsiya self-propelled system, two Msta-B howitzers, and one U.S.-made M777 artillery system have been neutralised over the past 24 hours.
🔹 @mod_russia_en
⚡Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
(21 June 2023)
Part II (see Part I (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/7996))
💥 Operational-Tactical and Army aviation, Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Group of Forces have engaged 117 AFU artillery units at their fire positions, manpower, and military hardware in 129 areas during the day.
▫️ Also, ammunition depots of the 109th Territorial Defence Brigade, 44th Artillery and the 60th Mechanised brigades of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been destroyed near Novgorodskoye (Donetsk People’s Republic), Novopavlovka (Zaporozhye region), and Morohovets (Kharkov region).
▫️ Moreover, a command post of the 128th Mountain Assault Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was destroyed close to Zapasnoye (Zaporozhye region).
▫️ Air defence forces have intercepted seven HIMARS and Uragan MLRS projectiles during the day.
▫️ Moreover, 12 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down close to Lyubimovka, Zaporozhskoye, Perezhnoye (Zaporozhye region), Ploshchanka, Kremennaya (Lugansk People’s Republic), Volodino, and Blagoveshchenka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
📊 In total, 444 airplanes and 240 helicopters, 4,725 unmanned aerial vehicles, 426 air defence missile systems, 10,256 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,127 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 5,187 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 11,098 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.
🔹 @mod_russia_en
Posted by: rumod report | Jun 21 2023 14:28 utc | 244
I follow this guy on Reddit. He’s an American ex-Marine Recon (injured several times in Iraq and now semi-disabled) with western Ukrainian wife, running an internet services business from Poland, using remote contractors as employees. Very representative of what on-the-ground attitudes are in western Ukraine. According to his posts: ordinary people in west Ukraine suffering economically, conscripts mostly from west Ukraine because east Ukraine and especially ethnic Russian Ukrainians cannot be trusted, every family in west Ukraine knows someone dead or injured or exhausted from years in the trenches, everyone still optimistic that Russian orcs will eventually be driven all the way out of Donbas and Crimea. Here is his latest projection-filled post:
“They’re [ed. Russians] not going to just up and walk away anytime soon. It’s almost a kill them all situation. They’re not just following orders. Majority of them have true unfounded hate for Ukrainian people. The ones that are just following orders are facing death if they run away or death if they stay. So I don’t see a quick way out unless Putin dies and someone reasonable takes over. Which is also highly unlikely. The more likely scenario would be another crazy leader and Russian breaking apart to be led by “warlord” types regionally for a long while. Fighting over the scraps left behind.”
Guys filled with projections like this are why war must go slowly. There can be no peace until west Ukrainians want peace. If Russia were to push into west Ukraine now, they would face partisans. It will at least another year for west Ukrainians (and those connected to them like this American guy) to give up hope of victory and start thinking about compromise.
Other reason to go slow is give USA an off-ramp by postponing defeat until after Nov 2024 presidential election.
Posted by: Revelo | Jun 21 2023 14:33 utc | 245
“Talk of nuclear war should be banned. It tends to elevate it to a viable option. I for one, would not like to see the planet destroyed because a bunch of zionist neocons might loose control of the USD printing press.
Posted by: Jj | Jun 21 2023 8:35 utc | 185”
Yeah, just do it the millennial way and ignore any problem you are mental/emotionally incapable of dealing with… everyone knows that if you ignore a problem and refuse to talk about it, it will just go away!!
SMFH
Posted by: Oldcutlas | Jun 21 2023 14:33 utc | 246
So it looks like we’re all in agreement then (rare for MOA)
The best option is for the elite to pack up their shit and go home.
I must say its hard going here sometimes (like pulling teeth)
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 14:46 utc | 247
@ whirlX 184
I am more afraid of Erdoğan…letting NATO to use chain of the Black Sea airports, as a jump-off bases that are mere minutes from Crimea and southern frontlines.
Relax. That is not going to happen. Erdogan is many things, but he’s not a fool. The US tried to kill him in the June 2016 coup. Erdogan has shown he is not grateful, but he knows Russia saved his life and would do it again, while Washington will try another coup if it can.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Jun 21 2023 14:50 utc | 248
I keep scanning the MSM looking for updates on Keivistani battlefield progress. Why the silence?
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 21 2023 14:51 utc | 249
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 21 2023 14:51 utc | 250
The local MSM reported yesterday that AFU counter-offensive has captured a village. They had a small clip of some rag tag group holding the Ukraine flag in front of a damaged house. No other reporting from the counter-offensive, which was touted since somewhere around last January, over 5 months!
Btw, it seems UK is wheeling Poroshenko back to the helm. What difference does it make? AFU/Nato will keep getting its a$$ kicked regardless what sort of micro management of political structures it makes in Ukraine.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 14:57 utc | 250
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 12:39 utc | 242
5X??? Come on dude. Patience, grasshopper.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 21 2023 14:57 utc | 251
Today’s Headline–
“Counteroffensive not going well – Zelensky”
translation: ” < 1 sq. cm. "
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jun 21 2023 14:59 utc | 252
Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 11:35 utc | 231
You decided to split hairs about some minor details but avoided my primary thesis: that a non-western culture and political system is entitled to have a system of governance and leadership free of outside judgement and denigration and interference, especially where the proof of the political pudding clearly shows much higher deficiencies in western democracies than the examples I quoted.
A Chinese President for life? So what? You clearly know little about the inherent Chinese preference for a paternalist culture which derives from the spiritual philosophies of Confusionism and Taoism and parallels thousands of years of family values — in contrast to Judeo-Christian cultures which have maybe 20% religious participation and whose moral values are now heading south real fast. They like their system the way it has evolved. You got a problem with that?
Eg, would you like to compare American drug problems with Chinese? American urban poverty with Russian? Is government repression of alternative viewpoints much different now between the systemic woke western censorship and the outright State banning of fake news Western propaganda in China and Russia? When was the last time Biden (or any US President) sat down for a roundtable pow-pow with a group of war correspondents to FIND OUT THE TRUTH FIRSTHAND of battlefield shortcomings? The Whitehouse rep just walks out of a presser when the questions get too curly.
So let me get this straight — you’re a Sinophobe but not a Russophobe; an Anglophile and a US patriot; and a Republican-Unipartyist to boot. Not much to talk about then.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 15:00 utc | 253
quote from link below…
“For example, for the last decade Kiev has been a suburb of Washington, London and Brussels. But it will simply be necessary for the Russians to announce that they can no longer guarantee the safety of western leaders visiting Kiev, and the relationship will start to unravel, even if the Ukrainians want to keep it. Irrespective of the exact regime that follows Zelensky’s, the West is increasingly likely to be frozen out of relations with Ukraine.”
Things Are Falling Apart …
from substack – AURELIEN
Posted by: james | Jun 21 2023 15:04 utc | 254
Ukrainian troops understand they don’t stand a chance against Russian forces — Putin
“Thanks to the courage and heroism of our fighters, thanks to the commanders’ readiness to repel any aggressive actions against Russia, I believe, the enemy doesn’t stand a change. They understand that and this is why they have stalled now,” Putin said at the meeting with military college graduates, answering a question from reporter Pavel Zarubin.
“Ukrainian forces began [the counteroffensive] on June 4, engaging strategic reserves. Curiously, we currently observe certain lull at this moment,” the president said, adding that “this is due to the enemy suffering serious casualties in personnel and in vehicles.”
According to the president, “there are individual elements of hostilities going on: shelling, reconnaissance-in-force.” “But, I repeat, there is currently no active offensive,” Putin added.
Meanwhile, he noted: “As of today, we see that the enemy’s offensive potential has not been depleted yet; the enemy has reserves and it thinks where and how to use them.”
Speaking about the destroyed Western vehicles, Putin underscored that these numbers keep growing.
“How much – that would require a look at the numbers. The total as of last night was 245 tanks and 678 armored vehicles of various types. Of course, that includes Leopards, French wheeled vehicles, US-made armored vehicles – everything,” the president said. “They burn quite well.”
TASS
Posted by: Fives | Jun 21 2023 15:05 utc | 255
DDoS attack on the bar this morning? Must be over the target.
Posted by: Fred777 | Jun 21 2023 15:05 utc | 256
If one wants to predict what will be the next move of US government he just needs to read western press. They start conditioning western society weeks in advance. (If the idea is abandoned at some point of time it doesn’t mean it hasn’t been contemplated)
All this noise about nukes is just that: preparation of society for use of tactical nukes. Russia is one to blame and Ukraine is forced to defend itself.
Russian shills such as Karaganov are there to help that narrative.
Those trumpeting the same here at MoA are doing the same.
Posted by: 2+2=5 | Jun 21 2023 15:06 utc | 257
For your consideration: https://t.me/legitimniy/15678 (machine translated)
Colleagues, German analysts have confirmed our insider that the AFU is using the case of the dried-up Kakhovka reservoir for an offensive. This move with the collapse of the hydropower plant has increased the front line, especially where the Russians have not prepared defensive lines. And to hold such a front, the Russians need more manpower, which gives the AFU a good opportunity to seize territory on the other bank at the expense of course of heavy losses, but if the attack is successful, no one will look at the losses, and society as well as the Western partners will sell it as a victory. The OP has long been preparing reserves for this in Dnipropetrovsk oblast and Kryvyi Rih.
Russian Armed Forces would have an opportunity to attack as well, certainly, but based on the fact that the Kremlin has chosen a defensive strategy, we dismiss this topic. Without another mobilization, it will be difficult to do so. It would have been advantageous for the Russians to pull such a stunt with expanding the front after the AFU offensive had suffered a catastrophic defeat, which would have given the Kremlin all the trump cards. Now, this is a problem for them, a big problem.
It is not for nothing that the GUR and the OP started creating the narrative that Russia is preparing to blow up the NPP (cooling tanks), as the AFU itself is preparing to storm these territories, which carries risks for the NPP in Energodar.
Posted by: js | Jun 21 2023 15:07 utc | 258
a non-western culture and political system is entitled to have a system of governance and leadership free of outside judgement and denigration and interference
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 15:00 utc | 254
No-one is above criticism, not even Xi Jinping (well, OK, he’s terrorized his own countryment into keeping their mouth’s shut).
So let me get this straight — you’re a Sinophobe but not a Russophobe; an Anglophile and a US patriot; and a Republican-Unipartyist to boot. Not much to talk about then
All I said about the US is that its presidents often serve two terms. You’ve whipped that up into me being “a Republican-Unipartyist to boot”.
Calm down and have a nice cup of tea.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 15:07 utc | 259
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 11:12 utc | 229
HOLD THE PHONE … for Mutti. She kept a lid on it for 12 years until she couldn’t anymore.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 21 2023 15:08 utc | 260
@Revelo | Jun 21 2023 14:33 utc | 246
Partisans ain’t a problem, once Putin has occupied all of Ukraine the Russian Army can maintain the borders and while the Chechens take care of the interior and its partisans.
Posted by: gT | Jun 21 2023 15:13 utc | 261
Liberal ideology [of growth] could be OK, but …
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 21 2023 11:55 utc | 234
for the rate of Diminishing Marginal Utility
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 21 2023 15:16 utc | 262
Jmaas@243…what happens to the 99%? Same thing that’s happening now, thinning the herd. We got major weather calamities, human induced…look up, crop reduction, less food, hmm, less people, famines roll slow. Mass murder on industrial scale, from the unborn to the front line meat grinders. And free untested medical therapies….hmm, hot potato, shut up leprechaun.
The 1%, we’re on the farm already way ahead of the curve, as for radiation sickness….no one lives for ever.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 21 2023 15:16 utc | 263
@Bruised Northerner | Jun 21 2023 14:26 utc | 244
Loans, not gifts. The garden will get the investment with profit anyway. And the latest promises don’t even include EU funds anymore, only stolen Russian assets they plan to use later this year. What eu/nato won’t get are the many resources in Donbass and the military potential of Crimea.
The first thing Ukr wanted to do after the coup in 2014 was to cancel the lease for RU military bases and that is not an option. It didn’t work but everything else worked well for nato, thanks in part to Russia’s paralysis that exists even today.
The youtube talking heads are looking for views, everything that idiot Dima does is clickbait. He knows nothing and his ideas were proven stupid many times before.
Not that nato invasion isn’t possible, but it’s not more probable now than before, it’s the same because the smo is the same. They did not brown their pants when Biden said a year ago that US troops will be in Ukr? Why only today they’re worried? nato + ukr army was a better option than nato – ukr army they can do today.
Also that meeting with Putin didn’t go very well, so most of these online clowns will show their true intentions which are the elections next year. they’re on the opposition side so spreading panic is the only message they can send.
Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 15:18 utc | 264
@Revelo | Jun 21 2023 14:33 utc | 246
Partisans ain’t a problem, once Putin has occupied all of Ukraine the Russian Army can maintain the borders and while the Chechens take care of the interior and its partisans.
Posted by: gT | Jun 21 2023 15:13 utc | 262
If it were all that easy Russia would still be the USSR in control of its Eastern European allies, and the British would still own the thirteen North American colonies along the eastern seaboard.
Posted by: Jmaas | Jun 21 2023 15:19 utc | 265
Counteroffensive progress? The Ukrainians “capture” a village every day before lunch because the Russians leave with minimal resistance. Then by bedtime the Russians “recapture” the village by annihilating everything in it with artillery and airstrikes. Lather-rinse-repeat.
The Ukrainians have been “capturing” the same village every day for two weeks now. The Russians hold the village for long enough to bag up some of the Ukrainian bodies then leave when the next batch of unfortunate Ukrainian cannon fodder is forced at gunpoint by literal Nazis into the kill zone.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 15:20 utc | 266
Did the rail yard at Rykove, Kherson disappear two days ago?
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 21 2023 15:29 utc | 267
“ 5X??? Come on dude. Patience, grasshopper.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 21 2023 14:57 utc | 252”
Kept on getting 503s, sorry.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 21 2023 15:30 utc | 268
fun listening to a farmer from manitoba here at moa… kudos sean! and answer to your question @ 269… i believe simplicus shared a picture of that from a few days ago..
Posted by: james | Jun 21 2023 15:34 utc | 269
gT @262: “Partisans ain’t a problem, once Putin has occupied all of Ukraine the Russian Army can maintain the borders and while the Chechens take care of the interior and its partisans.”
It will not be necessary to burden the Chechens with that nasty work. The Nazi hunters in the Ukraine will be Ukrainian, or former Ukrainian, depending upon what happens to the name of the place. Many of those who survive in the Ukraine will be a wee bit resentful of the Nazis, and will delight in rounding up Bandera’s fan club to send them to meet their hero.
Russia isn’t going to occupy the Ukraine.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 15:35 utc | 270
@ sean
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1670891658332844033
Posted by: james | Jun 21 2023 15:40 utc | 271
Posted by: Zanon | Jun 21 2023 15:24 utc | 268
Cab you provide any links about conditioning western society weeks in advance?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60664169
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/us-russia-putin-ukraine-war-david-petraeus
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-vladimir-putin-would-use-nuclear-weapons-in-ukraine
Just Google it yourself.
Or read this and a few threads back here at MoA
Posted by: 2+2=5 | Jun 21 2023 15:40 utc | 272
@ Posted by: Revelo | Jun 21 2023 14:33 utc | 246
Interesting anecdote. I am curious about the mindset of the Ukrainian population as well as the US public.
I note his views align with those of: 1) his wife, 2) his neighbors, 3) his friends (U.S. military) and 4) (I suspect) his clients (income).
Posted by: jared | Jun 21 2023 15:41 utc | 273
… any links about conditioning western society weeks in advance?
@ Zanon | Jun 21 2023 15:24 utc | 268
—
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/06/21/national-student-test-scores-drop-naep/
National test scores plummeted for 13-year-olds, according to new data that shows the single largest drop in math in 50 years and no signs of academic recovery following the disruptions of the pandemic.
Student scores plunged nine points in math and four points in reading on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), often regarded as the nation’s report card.
Conditioned in advance for a lifetime.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 21 2023 15:45 utc | 274
Posted by: 2+2=5 | Jun 21 2023 15:06 utc | 258
Yes exactly. And some are asking for links, which is kind of ironic. As The Duran predicted about 2 weeks ago, first the Polish troops enter Ukraine, get beaten up, then the US troops enter Ukraine, get beaten up and then nukes will be used. This comes from the “peaceniks” of the Duran
Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 15:51 utc | 275
GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 11:35 utc | 231–
You seem to believe that the public within the Outlaw US Empire has a say in who becomes POTUS, but you are quite incorrect according to the courts. It was decided during the challenge made to the illegality of the D-Party’s suppression of Sanders and promotion of Clinton that it had every right to do so as it’s a private entity having no responsibility to follow whatever “advice” is provided by the public via Primary elections and the elections made during the Party Convention. In other words, both the D and R parties are free to choose whoever they want to place on the ballot for POTUS and the public be damned. Now, that clearly violates the spirit and intent of the Constitution, or so it seems, and makes the Outlaw US Empire the Oligarchy that was the actual intent of those who overthrew the Articles of Confederation and forced upon the new nation the 1787 Constitution that was “approved” of by about 10% of the people then residing within the nation. There clearly was no “demos” at the time and the governmental form that was installed was called a Constitutional-Republic that was very oligarchical in its arrangement. Indeed, the new executive’s powers were so open-ended it was feared that whoever held the office would become a dictator quite easily, which is why George Washinton was installed.
And as for how/who the Outlaw US Empire is “governed/governs” today, I suggest you read this podcast transcript.
@Jmaas | Jun 21 2023 15:19 utc | 266
The Russians just need to channel their Eastern inheritance and forget about wanting to be Western all the time. Genghis Khan would have no problem dealing with Ukrainian partisans.
@William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 15:35 utc | 272
Peacemaker Putin had no intention of going into eastern Ukraine for many years, but then peacemaker Putin had no choice but to go into eastern Ukraine to prevent his people from being totally massacred there. Similarly peacemaker Putin has no intention of going into western Ukraine, but eventually peacemaker Putin is going to have no choice but to go into western Ukraine anyway. Peacemaker Putin is just going to have to accept the fact that the history of humanity is the history of war. The history of humanity is most definitely not the history of peace deals or peace agreements which are written down on paper.
Posted by: gT | Jun 21 2023 16:33 utc | 277
As The Duran predicted about 2 weeks ago, first the Polish troops enter Ukraine, get beaten up, then the US troops enter Ukraine, get beaten up and then nukes will be used.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 15:51 utc | 275
Can we have farewell live stream?
They do live in two countries directly involved in Ukr war and full of nazi supporters and I’m sure Russia isn’t going to do artillery duels with Polandesians or the American gayborne troops. A few days then the flash appears over UK, Greece and many others from Borel’s garden. US won’t get involved as long as Russia keeps the nuking European.
Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 16:51 utc | 278
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2023 15:56 utc | 276
Rather shocking that people don’t understand that the OUSE is in no way a democracy.
Less shocking is that they have no clue about the political system of the PRC. All politics in China is local. They directly elect a representative and from there it ladders up all the way to the top. At the base of the system the local reps only have around 30-40k people that they answer to. Those local reps have to worry about being voted out and are always going out into their district and talking to the public.
Ending the term limits does not prevent Xi from being removed from power. While technically it is a one party state there are many factions inside the party that results in a very broad body politic. If Xi fucks up he will be replaced. There is a reason it only took about a week of protests for the lockdowns to end.
Posted by: badjoke | Jun 21 2023 17:32 utc | 279
Nukes are a reality. Russia having them is why Russia still exists.
This war absolutely has a chance of going nuclear, because it absolutely had a chance of escalating to WWIII, which increases the chance of nuclear war.
Stating so on Moon of Alabama does not make it any more or less likely, so you can stop trying to make me not talk about possibilities. It won’t work, and I will talk about what I want to talk about.
Furthermore, the us government, lile so many elites on history, is deadly opposed to its masses, and its propaganda is full of shaming humans for daring to exist. It is misanthropic. Getting us all killed might be good for the environment in the minds of many of these elites.
Lastly, Americans dont fear nuclear war anymore. Ukraine will not affect the 2024 elections at all, nor will decisions about Ukraine in any way have domestic political consideration.
Know why? Because Americans dont fear nuclear war any more. And they should. It is by far the biggest threat to them and humanity. But geopolitics is ignored by 95 percent of the masses, and just accepted at what narrative says it is.
Posted by: UWDude | Jun 21 2023 17:37 utc | 280
GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 15:07 utc | 259
The real tragedy is that we let smug Puritans have food in exchange for their moralistic screeching rather than withholding it.
Consider today’s world affairs in the light of repudiation of your perfectionist, pietist religious craycray. Nobody ever cared about your ideals, little one.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen | Jun 21 2023 18:35 utc | 281
The Sarmat complexes with a new heavy missile will take up combat duty in Russia.
The Sarmat can carry 10 to 15 warheads, including Avangard hypersonic gliders, which, in turn, can reach Mach 27. There are no missile defense systems in the world that could intercept a missile flying at such a crazy speed.
Sarmat is so powerful that it can put satellites into orbit. The concept of the “orbital bombardment” – the missile does not fly along the shortest trajectory to the target, but along any, even through the North Pole, even through the South, bypassing all installed missile defense radars and anti-missiles.
Sarmat is the only military missile on Earth that hits a target at a distance of up to 18 thousand kilometers. And it does this in less than an hour.
But besides the crazy speed, the Sarmat has another important trump card – the total explosive power. Here, 15 Sarmat warheads must be multiplied by 750 thousand tons, that is, more than 11 megatons of TNT. In simple words, one “Sarmat” is capable of destroying a piece of land the size of France or the state of Texas. And Russia has more than a few “Sarmats…
Posted by: ostro | Jun 21 2023 18:55 utc | 282
gT @277
“Peacemaker Putin” will go the the Polish border. I never said he wouldn’t do that. I said that Russians are not going to occupy the Ukraine, or whatever it is to be called when a functional state is formed there. Once the Nazis are destroyed as a military threat the Russians will hand the wreckage back over to the locals. Sure, the Russians will keeps some babysitters there to give guidance and steer the population away from making another stupid and self-destructive mistake, but that will hardly be an “occupation” as the NAFO-tards like to imagine.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2023 19:48 utc | 283
You seem to believe that the public within the Outlaw US Empire has a say in who becomes POTUS
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2023 15:56 utc | 276
No. The entirety of what I said about the US at #231 (now #230) was that US presidents often serve two terms = 8 years. Nothing more, nothing less.
Please stop stuffing words into my mouth and beliefs into my head.
Thank you.
If it helps, what I do believe is that US politics is rotten to the core and the country is heading for civil war and the collapse of its military backed, finance led foreign policy imposition worldwide.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 19:56 utc | 284
Posted by: gT | Jun 21 2023 16:33 utc | 277
Yeah great chessmaster as wannabe peacemaker Minsk 1&2
Peacemaker is always 2 peace steps behind
Posted by: Miau | Jun 21 2023 21:17 utc | 285
Bruised Northerner | Jun 21 2023 14:26 utc | 243
*** To all those concerned citizens of the USA, I really think you don’t need to seduce an unsuspecting farm girl. Canada and Mexico have your back in this one, we’ll find something edible to provide. ***
It may be the (US orientated) Guardian newspaper to blame … this last couple of years, it has seemed disturbingly obsessive about cannibalism.
Btw, are Canadian / Mexican farm girls gm or organic?
Posted by: Cynic | Jun 21 2023 21:32 utc | 286
Hmm, interesting question Cynic @ 286! I think in Canada a safe answer, generally, would be a little from category A, a little from category B, to keep everybody happy. Kind of happy, more like appeased, or just quiet, settled, if temporarily.
King Charles is all about the sustainable agriculture though. So.
https://youtu.be/xcHXZV74BL4 That’s a link to a trailer for The Farmer and His Prince
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 21 2023 23:36 utc | 287
RED ARMY DRIVE ON; Counter-Offensive Dents Nazis’ Orel Salient on Two Sides FOE’S TANKS ROUTED 28-Mile Gain Reported in Continuing Battle — Bryansk in Peril RED ARMY DRIYE ON, 110 TOWNS RETAKEN
Give this article
By the Associated Press.
July 16, 1943
I sense the Russian push in Kupiansk direction might be the current pendent to Operation Kutuzov against the northern German pincer of the Kursk offensive.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 22 2023 0:27 utc | 288
diagonal 49
Imho only an explosion underwater would have the hydraulic momentum to break the dam. Why would that happen on the hour, if not planned?
The destruction of the dam is a massive blow to the water supply for Crimea, but that doesn’t mean that Putin is going to show his feelings.
Revenge has already been served. SBU. God is swift in recompense.
Theo crime of destroying civilian infrastructure, created by a Soviet Union that felt a duty of care towards its citizens, compared to Blackrock buying up Ukraine after its citizens have been genocided, is a stark contrast. Biden has crawled back under his stone in shame, waiting for the methane to clear.
Sufficient is God as witness to USUKIS war crimes.
Posted by: Giyane | Jun 22 2023 4:51 utc | 289