Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues here.
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June 20, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-146
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
“..I seriously doubt Ukraine is going to exhaust themselves with their current offensive to the point that they are no longer capable of effective defence…” Mike314159@96 Posted by: bevin | Jun 20 2023 23:18 utc | 101 Posted by: AG | Jun 20 2023 22:48 utc | 91 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 20 2023 23:23 utc | 102 Posted by: Mike314159 | Jun 20 2023 23:05 utc | 96 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 20 2023 23:31 utc | 103 RSH @ 96 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 20 2023 23:36 utc | 104 Stratotankers are to be placed over the Black Sea and near Ukrainian-Polish border, levelled not very far from Rzeszów – Lamberg line. Posted by: kupkee | Jun 20 2023 23:53 utc | 105 Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 20 2023 22:50 utc | 93
What’s worse is that none of the geniuses on this forum are looking at the upside and working out how to make profit off the nuke terror – or prospective nuclear apocalypse. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 20 2023 23:58 utc | 106 A mere $41 billion is all it will take to reconstruct Ukraine. Sunak is chipping in $3 billion (not his own money). Posted by: dh | Jun 21 2023 0:01 utc | 107 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 20 2023 23:36 utc | 103 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 0:06 utc | 108 th @ 106 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 0:09 utc | 109 Crazier and crazier. Saw today in the Sydney Morning Herald, this piece of nonsense now circulating MSM through Reuters. Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 0:09 utc | 110 Alex Christiforo says Budanov is haunting the Russians. Posted by: jared | Jun 21 2023 0:12 utc | 111 RSH @ 107 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 0:16 utc | 112 Australians are actually gunna believe this! Posted by: K | Jun 21 2023 0:19 utc | 113 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 0:16 utc | 111 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 0:26 utc | 114 Getting dangerous around here what with all these nukes flying around …. Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 21 2023 0:28 utc | 115 RSH @ 113 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 0:33 utc | 116 Don Firineach your a good man ! Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 0:38 utc | 117 Could someone explain to me why Russia has not attempted to interdict resupply routes WITHIN UKRAINE? I mean, before nuking Antwerp and Ramstein AFB, wouldn’t it be logical to destroy rail lines and roads in Western Ukraine? Posted by: Xin Loi | Jun 21 2023 0:50 utc | 118 It’s not even the weekend and this thread already sucks the big one :)…..where’s that bottle at….? Posted by: Suresh | Jun 21 2023 0:50 utc | 119 Xin Loi : Russia can blow up those things, but doesn’t. Either Putin is a traitor to Russia, or he has judo flipped the neo-con strategy of “we are fighting them over there so we dont have to fight them here” into “we are fighting them here so we dont have to fight them there” Posted by: UWDude | Jun 21 2023 0:57 utc | 120 Suresh @ 118 Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 1:01 utc | 121 dh | Jun 21 2023 0:01 utc | 106 Posted by: Cynic | Jun 21 2023 1:01 utc | 122 Re. Budanov Posted by: 2+2=5 | Jun 21 2023 1:03 utc | 123 Just watched RFK Jr’s foreign policy speech, in which, as a starting point, he acknowledged the great Soviet contribution to WWII. That was encouraging…until I saw that the Pentagram has recalculated their Ukranian “accounting error” up to $6.2 rather than 3 billion according to CNN Posted by: Peter b | Jun 21 2023 1:04 utc | 124 Aaaand. The clown show gets its season extended by a few extra episodes: Pentagon accounting error provides extra $6.2 billion for Ukraine military aid
https://twitter.com/ElectionWiz/status/1671271117020069890 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 21 2023 1:14 utc | 126 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 21 2023 1:14 utc | 125 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 1:18 utc | 127 Latest Napolitano… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 1:20 utc | 128 What an epically titanic distraction from the shocking battlefield bloodbath occurring in Ukraine. Posted by: Irish | Jun 21 2023 1:44 utc | 129 Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 1:18 utc | 126 Posted by: paddy | Jun 21 2023 1:53 utc | 130 Ukrainian Journalist Blasts Media For Whitewashing Azov Batallion
Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 21 2023 1:56 utc | 131 Latest Duran live with Larry Johnson… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 2:00 utc | 132 @unimperator Posted by: catbonez | Jun 21 2023 2:02 utc | 133 Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 21 2023 1:56 utc | 130 Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 21 2023 2:08 utc | 134 More creative US financing (outside Congressional purview) for the counteroffensive: Posted by: Deeplurker | Jun 21 2023 2:16 utc | 135 For the Wagner fanboys, enjoy! Posted by: Suresh | Jun 21 2023 2:17 utc | 136 reply to 100 Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 21 2023 2:20 utc | 137 It wasn’t a final treaty, Putin didn’t say it was. It was a negotiation that was ongoing but the major points appear to have been agreed on in principle. It seems that many western fans of Russia simply refuse to understand that Putin did want this war. He didn’t want a war to defeat NATO. People are putting their own desires on Russia and Putin. Posted by: Lex | Jun 21 2023 2:40 utc | 138 found that the military services used replacement costs rather than the book value of equipment that was pulled from Pentagon stocks and sent to Ukraine. She said final calculations show there was an error of $3.6 billion in the current fiscal year and $2.6 billion in the 2022 fiscal year, which ended last Sept. 30. Posted by: Jmaas | Jun 21 2023 2:53 utc | 139 Posted by: Lex | Jun 21 2023 2:40 utc | 137 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 3:05 utc | 140 Any truth in the reports that Israel is supplying 200 Merkava tanks to Ukraine? Posted by: littlereddot | Jun 21 2023 3:14 utc | 141 Posted by: littlereddot | Jun 21 2023 3:14 utc | 140 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 3:22 utc | 142 Posted by: littlereddot | Jun 21 2023 3:14 utc | 140 “Any truth in the reports that Israel is supplying 200 Merkava tanks to Ukraine?” Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 3:36 utc | 143 …….The Lindsey Grahams in the West will gleefully allocate multiple billions to buy weapons that for once won’t sit in warehouses but can be rained down on Russia as they come off the production line…… Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 3:38 utc | 144 Listening to Alastair Crooke on Napolitano. He counters b’s analysis of Blinken’s visit by saying that the reason Blinken is there is because the US isn’t ready for war with China and is trying to buy time. He quotes the US general who said the US is preparing for war with China around 2025. I also think those who have suggested that Blinken wants China to pressure Russia to negotiate might also be right (and of course that isn’t going to happen.) Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 3:43 utc | 145 Nasrallah’s news Agency on. the Jenin Attack:
Zionists in Distress: Israeli Deterrence Suffered Immensely in Jenin Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 21 2023 3:46 utc | 146 Posted by: Xin Loi | Jun 21 2023 0:50 utc | 117 “Could someone explain to me why Russia has not attempted to interdict resupply routes WITHIN UKRAINE?” Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 3:46 utc | 147 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 20 2023 21:15 utc | 72 “Stratotankers are to be placed over the Black Sea and near Ukrainian-Polish border, levelled not very far from Rzeszów – Lamberg line. That all should be denied to NATO/Ukrainian dreamteam. We will see what really happens, I guess real soon.” Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 3:50 utc | 148 Alastair Crooke on Judging Freedom today was another good conversation as usual, but so much isn’t discussed, the Minsk agreements in particular and the bearing they have on the current context. Plus, it wasn’t just Biden who provoked the current situation–the policy continuity goes back to 1917 as Crooke hinted at for Donbass but not for the overall Big Picture. Same as with the opening remarks about the cause of the current economic malaise. I wonder how Hudson would fare with the Judge? Anyway, it was a worthy use of 23 minutes. Posted by: Plebs | Jun 20 2023 18:27 utc “Russia stated that it will hit decision-making centers on Ukrainian territory. To me it seems like the US would trade a strike on Crimea for a hit on some bunker in Ukraine which can be denied any day of the week. ” Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 3:58 utc | 150 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 20 2023 21:40 utc | 80 Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 4:09 utc | 151 I see I was a tad late with my comment @148. So, I’ll add more. No critique on the crap that’re NATO weapons. It’s not that the Empire needs to manufacture more of the same; rather, it’s that the Empire needs to build a whole bunch of new gear across the entire spectrum that works and quickly. None of the current junk can beat either Russia or China, which is something I wrote in December 2021 and have been proven correct daily since. Taiwan is a sovereign Chinese province–Period–there’s no possibility of disputing that–Period. @107: Posted by: Boris Badenov | Jun 21 2023 4:23 utc | 153 If you scratch the surface of a lot of western imperialists you find the imperialist mindset deeply ingrained and inverted simply by being “against” the US empire while being for the methods of the US empire. Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 4:25 utc | 154 Posted by: Xin Loi | Jun 21 2023 0:50 utc | 117 “Could someone explain to me why Russia has not attempted to interdict resupply routes WITHIN UKRAINE?” Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 21 2023 4:27 utc | 155 ridiculous notion that the US is throwing in the towel on Ukraine and China. Posted by: John2007 | Jun 21 2023 4:27 utc | 156 “Geologists believe that the Yellowstone supervolcano could explode at any moment. There are signs of growing activity there. Therefore it suffices to push the relatively small, for example the impact of the munition megaton class to initiate an eruption. The consequences will be catastrophic for the United States – a country just disappears,” he said. Posted by: hankster | Jun 21 2023 4:34 utc | 157 103 Your assuming you get to the vault and its not empty with a big IOU piece of paper left on a table Posted by: hankster | Jun 21 2023 4:37 utc | 158 the “nukes on fault lines” discussion is fascinating, but that’s not what keeps me up at night, it’s a strike on the Yellowstone caldera with a bunker buster nuke… Posted by: Oldcutlas | Jun 21 2023 5:04 utc | 159 Kennedy’s speech today on Peace & Diplomacy is more important than anything being expressed here. Posted by: windjammer | Jun 21 2023 5:11 utc | 160 Listening to Scott Ritter on his “Ask The Inspector”… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 5:12 utc | 161 Posted by: hankster | Jun 21 2023 4:37 utc | 157 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 5:15 utc | 162 Richard, Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 5:38 utc | 163 Today I had the misfortune of driving 14 hours across Nritish Columbia, Canada listening to CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, our government media. Not a peep about Ukraine, Nada! Considering we have contributed substantially in funds and hardware, even seizing Russian assets, one would thing the headline news would say something. Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Jun 21 2023 5:42 utc | 164 159 I liked kennedy until i saw him shilling for Israel saying they dont kill little kids unless they have to. Posted by: hankster | Jun 21 2023 5:51 utc | 165 Ray Mcgovern said on twitter the potential ZNPP strike or sabotage would actually be a potential response to the failed AFU counteroffensive, which is the decision of Nuland. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 5:56 utc | 166 It could be the counteroffensive and that bit about the Sea of Azov was a distraction. If you listen to what is being said in the media, the real goal here is to reach that nuclear power plant and blame on Russia whatever happens next. Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 6:32 utc | 167 It’s funny to see who got the memo to start to get out of the Ukraine desaster. And who still plays yesterdays role. Posted by: Ruediger | Jun 21 2023 6:42 utc | 168 Posted by: Exile | Jun 21 2023 5:38 utc | 162 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 7:15 utc | 169 Listening to Larry Johnson on The Duran… He used his simile of the Ukrainian offensive being a Hollywood blockbuster that is hyped to the skies and then turns into a flop when it arrives. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 7:25 utc | 170 as long as I can heat it in a microwave or … Posted by: too scents | Jun 21 2023 7:32 utc | 171 Ray Mcgovern said on twitter the potential ZNPP strike or sabotage would actually be a potential response to the failed AFU counteroffensive Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 7:34 utc | 172 Posted by: too scents | Jun 21 2023 7:32 utc | 171 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 21 2023 7:41 utc | 173 Posted by: Ruediger | Jun 21 2023 6:42 utc | 168 Posted by: badjoke | Jun 21 2023 7:41 utc | 174 [174] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 7:44 utc | 175 Well, you can soak rice and eat it without cooking it. 🙂 Posted by: too scents | Jun 21 2023 7:45 utc | 176 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 7:44 utc | 175 Posted by: badjoke | Jun 21 2023 7:47 utc | 177 Die herrschende Elite ist zunehmend wütend und verbittert darüber, dass die Beherrschten nicht mehr zuhören; die Beherrschten ihrerseits sind verbittert darüber, dass das System so offensichtlich nicht in ihrem Interesse handelt und nicht einmal mehr so tut, als würde es das. Vielleicht wachen wir eines Tages auf und stellen fest, dass weder die Politiker noch die Wähler glauben, dass die ‘Demokratie’ ihnen noch viel nützt. Posted by: Oberbayer | Jun 21 2023 8:00 utc | 178 Some may see this prepper stuff as a derailment… Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 21 2023 8:03 utc | 179 “Can we stop the nuke porn?” Nope, everybody is talking about and there is no smoke without fire. It should be clear by now the West does not care about the Ukies, so there go the Ukies. And as Ms. Nuland said, f-k the EU, so there goes the EU. The counteroffensive had no clearly stated and realistic goal to begin with but. like any other crisis, it cannot be allowed to go to waste. If it was the Brits who blew up the dam, guess what they will also be able to do. Btw, has anybody explained why else the dam was destroyed? Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 8:17 utc | 180 Military summary: Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 8:33 utc | 181 Biden called Xi Jinping a dictator Posted by: Fives | Jun 21 2023 8:34 utc | 182 @ Tim2 | Jun 21 2023 3:50 utc | 148 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 8:34 utc | 183 Talk of nuclear war should be banned. It tends to elevate it to a viable option. I for one, would not like to see the planet destroyed because a bunch of zionist neocons might loose control of the USD printing press. Posted by: Jj | Jun 21 2023 8:35 utc | 184 @ Zanon | Jun 21 2023 8:17 utc | 181 Posted by: whirlX | Jun 21 2023 8:49 utc | 185 It seems all the Ukraine frontline analysts (milsummary, dpa, weeb…) have the same theme today. Its something along the line of “ukraine is done, NATO is coming”. Posted by: Orgel | Jun 21 2023 8:55 utc | 186 Talk of nuclear war should be banned. It tends to elevate it to a viable option. Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 8:55 utc | 187 [183] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 8:59 utc | 188 [181] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 9:04 utc | 189 @Fives | Jun 21 2023 8:34 utc | 183 Posted by: rk | Jun 21 2023 9:05 utc | 190 Any suggestions why they are so convinced about a mass of nato boots on the ground in the near future? Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 9:06 utc | 191 Russia: if Ukraine joins NATO, it’s war. Posted by: Passerby | Jun 21 2023 9:06 utc | 192 [177] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 9:07 utc | 193 Biden called Xi Jinping a dictator Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 21 2023 9:07 utc | 194 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 9:04 utc | 190 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 21 2023 9:09 utc | 195 [177] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2023 9:11 utc | 196 re: history of US post WWII dominance – NSC-68: Posted by: AG | Jun 21 2023 9:13 utc | 197 Saw today in the Sydney Morning Herald, this piece of nonsense now circulating MSM through Reuters. Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 21 2023 9:18 utc | 198 Naked Capitalism on a study about the limited cost/increased profit of the war on short-term outlook: Posted by: AG | Jun 21 2023 9:22 utc | 199 Posted by: AG | Jun 21 2023 9:13 utc | 198 Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 21 2023 9:23 utc | 200 |
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