Slavyangrad Telegram Channel Reports….
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/51127
🐷
In less than two weeks, Ukrainians have already brought into battle almost as many units as fought for all the confrontations in Bakhmut (who forgot, here is a post about the number of forces in Bakhmut https://t.me/z_arhiv/21476 ).
The list does not include battalions that are part of the brigades. On the map you will see a more detailed picture of the battalions: “>http://карта-СВО.рф
An impressive list!
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 17 2023 20:26 utc | 104

Latest Military Summary, the Ukrainians escalating their attacks with very high losses and limited gains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-5fkTJG4zo
The perfect scenario for the Russians, as the Ukrainians facilitate the destruction of their reserves. Like Ali doing “rope a dope” until the opponent is exhausted, then the Russians need to deliver a strong counter-attack to deliver the knock out blow. The Ukrainians do seem to be helpfully creating nice salients at great loss to themselves that can be turned into cauldrons.

Posted by: Roger | Jun 17 2023 20:29 utc | 106

It seems that the main motivator and driver of current attacks is that AFU is gambling everything to achieve some gains before July 11th Nato meeting.
For Zelensky admin, the measure of success is calculated on foreign support. This also determines the paycheck, and at extreme condition even the ability to retain the so-far accrued paychecks and mansions and other loot.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 17 2023 20:30 utc | 108

Here’s Alexander Mercouris’ latest (playback @ 1.25 recommended). Interesting take on events in Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsI5iQaPhgQ

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Jun 17 2023 20:55 utc | 110

This guy writes a pretty good Substack. Not very frequently, and wouldn’t surprise me if it’s someone who also reads and comments here at Moon of Alabama. He definitely references past MoA posts.
https://ourimperialpress.substack.com/p/the-suicidal-idiocy-of-the-western
Regarding the impatience from some regulars with the pace of the Russian intervention:

And possibly the most painful and damaging bear trap the Empire and pals have fallen on is their plan to militarily bleed, and eventually break, Russia. Pulling out every stop they could to demilitarize Russia, through their brilliant scheme to engage Russia on its doorstep, they have instead been thoroughly demilitarized themselves.
If you listen to the mockingbirds of the Imperial Press, you would think the situation was the exact opposite. That the Russians are about to run out of missiles, despite the continuous, regular rounds of Russian missile strikes. That the Ukrainians are somehow “winning”, despite no signs of advances after largely symbolic, and incredibly costly, offensives that looked primarily like Russian strategic withdrawals from vulnerable forward positions. Withdrawals that were handled so skillfully that almost no Russian troops were lost, while the Ukrainians had entire brigades wrecked as they moved into territory heavily covered by Russian artillery fire.
But even the stenographer press is smelling a turd. Hints of a much different, grimmer reality are now regularly nestled in otherwise cheerleading, Pollyanna-ish pieces: that the Ukrainians are suffering massive losses, are heavily overmatched in equipment and ammunition supplies, and are increasingly reduced to sending old men and the barely trained to the front lines.
This train wreck was long predicted, and the obvious outcome of choosing to fight Russia with an overmatched proxy adjacent to the Russian heartland. Any unbiased assessment of the strategic and tactical wisdom of this effort would have judged it as disastrously ill-conceived. A quixotic, clearly unwinnable quest that was guaranteed to end in Ukrainian defeat, and an eventual settlement that leaves Ukraine minus even more Russian leaning regions, even more economically and militarily crushed. A crippled rump of a state that will be completely dependent on continual Western economic support.
For anyone willing to look beyond Western hopium and copium reporting, and to use non-fairy tale based logic, the ever accelerating shredding of the Ukrainian military is obvious. A simple assessment based on the clearly stated, yet completely ignored, goals of the Russian operation makes this clear.
The primary goal of the operation is to demilitarize Ukraine- not to take the entirety of the country. Other than an early gambit to threaten Kiev and panic the Zelensky government into a quick settlement, the overriding goal has been to smash the Ukrainian military. Conditioned by a shockingly militarily ignorant and biased Western MSM to expect a quick “Shock and Awe” beatdown a la Iraq, the slow destruction of the Ukrainian forces has been mischaracterized as a “stalemate.” Only in the independent press will you see discussion of just how logical the Russian approach is. One, in a war they see as being conducted among a Russian population, it minimizes civilian deaths by establishing well defined fronts and battle areas. Second, the style both fits Russian doctrine and minimizes casualties, leaning on massive material superiority in artillery to crush enemies from afar. And third, in an existential struggle, you don’t necessarily worry about how quickly you win- you just have to make sure that you DO win. As the much larger combatant with corresponding resources, and with interior lines (again, right on the doorstep) to move those resources, time is inevitably on their side. Russia is going nowhere.

I really don’t see how anyone who has actually been keeping up on “both sides” and cross-checking what they read could think otherwise. Other than copium (or a perverse desire to see nukes fly) and delusion, of course.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 17 2023 21:23 utc | 112

Regarding the above post of mine ^^^ #112
I have in the past said that there is a political benefit for Putin and his government to crushing Ukraine and its Nato backers quickly. Perhaps my view was too colored by domestic United States (electoral horse race) politics. I still think that in any war, the quicker and more decisively you win, the better. I also believe that the longer something like this draws out, the more politically unpopular it becomes so long as young men continue to return home in body bags and caskets (or not at all).
All of that having been said, what I think I may have neglected in past thinking on that particular matter is the existential nature of this conflict for Russia. There has been nothing remotely existential about any past American war, usually waged far away from the shores of the USSA, and usually waged to crush some leftist government or secular leader of an Islamic country that wouldn’t toe the Empire’s line with 100% compliance. Or, to paraphrase someone else, “Every so often the USA needs to pick up another weaker country and beat them up just to show what we’re capable of.” Like Panama for example. Or Grenada.
If, in fact, the domestic situation in Russia and the greater RF is such that more people than not recognize what all’s at stake here – and most of the “civil society” regime change outfits have been shut down or kicked out – then it would not surprise me at all if the Russian people have bought in with what’s happening, it’s probably wrong of me to think that Putin needs to win quickly in order to save his own political life – and I do believe he is up for election again next year and said he would not enter the race?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 17 2023 21:32 utc | 114

Both China and russia have been involved in mass deaths too, usually internally but that’s just where there interests lie. Given the opportunity you’d find that they’d be no better if given the power to range across the world.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 17 2023 20:13 utc | 98
Given the opportunity, they’d have hundreds of rape-military bases around the world alongside running torture camps, biolabs, organ harvesting operations, colour revolutions, oil stealing, assassinations, pedo islands, monsanto, pfizer, blackrock, satanist weedsmoker hollywood, etc? And destroying dozens of countries for fun?
You’re an idiot and you read too much of that pathetic creep mearsheimer.

Posted by: Mike | Jun 17 2023 21:51 utc | 116

MSM says Kiev was bombed while the African delegation was there. Is this true?
No it was not bombed, it’s more propaganda masquerading as news, a person from the African delegation said there was no bombing or sirens, the rel dnger to that African group is from the Kiev Nazis and a false flag attack on the delegation.

Posted by: Englishman | Jun 17 2023 21:51 utc | 118

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 17 2023 21:23 utc | 112
I really don’t see how anyone who has actually been keeping up on “both sides” and cross-checking what they read could think otherwise. Other than copium (or a perverse desire to see nukes fly) and delusion, of course.
There are not many keeping up with both sides.
Some do not out of ignorance. Some do not out of delusion. Some do not out of fear.
Naturally, accepting all those truths would mean accepting one lived a lie up until now.
The awakening out of this so far unseen mass psychosis will be rude.

Posted by: kspr | Jun 17 2023 21:52 utc | 120

The whole point of this site is speculation as your comment described so well, In fact, thats all that people do here. Yet, when in comes to Israel and the Palestinians we’re just supposed to automatically assume Putin’s and Russia’s good intentions and keep silent ? I find this very concerning.
Posted by: Shocked | Jun 17 2023 19:55 utc | 87
#################
Assume nothing, my friend. Assumptions and expectations cause many problems for all kinds of people.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 17 2023 21:55 utc | 122

An interesting summary of the SMO from Twitter had a couple of details that I was unaware of, specifically regarding strategy.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1670181877196677120.html

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 17 2023 21:57 utc | 124

@bevin, #113
Thanks for the update. Do you have any idea of the average age of MoA folks? My gut feeling it is above 60. By the way, I reached that number last year…

Posted by: DakotaRog | Jun 17 2023 22:10 utc | 126

Intel Slava Telegram Channel Reports…. including a video of Putin’s presentation to the African Deligates…
https://t.me/intelslava/48935
Video: During the session with the African Delegation, Russian President Vladimir Putin showed the African leaders a copy of the agreed-upon draft agreement between Russia and Ukraine in March 2022.
The agreement puts regulations on Ukrainian Armed Forces and says that Ukraine must adopt a Permanent Diplomatic Neutrality
Putin told the African Delegation that Russia withdrew troops from Kyiv/Kiev and Chernihiv in accordance with the treaty.
However, after that happened Ukraine “on the orders of Washington, threw this treaty into the dustbin of history.”
At that time it was openly reported that the person responsible for the fall of the agreements was the then Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Boris Johnson who convinced the Ukrainian President Zelensky not to accept the agreements and continue the fight.
Videos translated by Lord Bebo (“>https://t.me/myLordBebo/1246)
The Africans were treated as befits heads of state, quite unlike the treatment Poland/Zelenski imposed upon them in Warsaw/Kiev….
Putin treats them courteously, deferentially…..
AND…..
Has something for show and tell…. a nearly ratified agreement virtually identical to their proposal…
REJECTED….
By the Ukies at the Behest of Boris Johnson, PM of the UK, per US/NATO orders…
I believe the South Africans will fast track pending legislation before their parliament which will make RSA law supreme in their land…
AND….
Will enable them to grant Putin Diplomatic Immunity, and to declare heads of state inviolate persons…
You can’t make this stuff up!!
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 17 2023 22:18 utc | 128

Hi Indiana Joe –
You’re just located by last IP-ref at the Arizona State located (online linked village and address not yet named here by Your IT-Provider, publicly) ..
But pls. if asking for the “average age” of MoAs, You 1st. have to declare what Your issue is to such a “question” .. Pls. try once more …

Posted by: spare_truth | Jun 17 2023 22:26 utc | 130

” Please explain how exactly this benefits Israel, except lowering the Co2 footprint of many people travelling to Tel Aviv to regulate stuff in Russian Embassy.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 17 2023 20:15 utc | 100 ”
By having another major world power legitimize the Zionist land theft, this should be obvious. I predict more embassies and consulates being opened in Jerusalem soon using the ” frog in boiling water” technique.
The Palestinians are just brown sand n+++ers it seems as the world just doesnt even care.

Posted by: Shocked | Jun 17 2023 22:36 utc | 132

Hamish the british tank commander who regularly published in the telegraph articles along the lines of ‘nato equipment will brush aside putin’s rag tag army of conscripts’ may have some explaining to do when the extent of the unfolding debacle becomes to big to hide. that’s the problem with propaganda, you can end up looking like a complete twerp.

Posted by: Oh | Jun 17 2023 22:48 utc | 134

Results are coming in fast, using my method of de encrypting propaganda it looks like a full on defeat of the Ukrainian offensive has occurred.
1. Western articles all mention heavy losses admit their optimism
2. A big push a couple days ago has no substantial gains, and silence
3. Ukrainian English information site ukrinform led with an article headlined with afu airstrikes, but was pages of notes where Russians had been shelling or attempted offensive operations(all of which predictably stopped but clearly russia can seem to lose 10 000 offensive operations but not be erased from the battlefield) the text seemed to say we’re getting hammered out here
4. Ukrainian retaliation seems to focus on dramatic attacks on russian civilians, or pin prick drone attacks on energy facilities far from the front.
5. Long range storm shadow (or equivalent) attacks seem to have stopped. Mlrs attacks have gone from dozens to 3 or 4 missles per volley
6. Ukraine seems to be exhausted on the bahkmut front
7. The us is sending replacement vehicles, and tried to say 6000 Ukrainian troops being trained in dozens of countries was a sign of strength. It doesn’t seem that way to me.
8. Other European countries are sending more supplies, like Belgium with 4(!) Tanks. But these aren’t to exploit breakthroughs it feels like just enough to keep ukraine fighting
And finally a mobilization in western ukraine
I know it’s still early but these aren’t encouraging signs for ukraine.
The time for a russian riposte is rapidly arriving, especially towards kramatorsk its a good bet ukraine stripped the reserves from there, once ukraine is forced to go all in towards tokmak/melitopal/berdyansk
A russian move towards Kharkov can’t be discounted either. Activity near kupiansk is growing.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 17 2023 22:52 utc | 136

” This “SMO” is depleting the globe of “mercenaries” and weapons stock, all ability to supply fighters and weaponry to those who might potentially challenge Chinas supreme authority.
Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Jun 17 2023 22:49 utc | 138 ”
This would be identical to what was done in the Syrian war by using the Muslim faith.

Posted by: Shocked | Jun 17 2023 23:00 utc | 138

This would be identical to what was done in the Syrian war by using the Muslim faith.
Posted by: Shocked | Jun 17 2023 23:00 utc | 141
Yup, one must not just look behind the curtain, but under the stage and who built it. Anything we read online or hear delivered by all mediums is designed to distract us from the reality. Even here on MoA, although this is by far the best source of quality insight regarding the SMO. The big picture is clearly avoided though. Witness what is happening in all nations administration which make the patriot act seem like child’s play. Absolute control is certain while we watch the SMO. It’s entertaining to watch the sudden acceptance of ET’s. The Iliad was not a fable.

Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Jun 17 2023 23:10 utc | 140

Without getting into it too deeply, compare the old-fashioned NATO way, informed by wars against weaker countries, with the Russia way. . .
The NATO way:

NATO command elements are gaining new capabilities to command and control (C2) in multiple domains. Lessons from the last 20 years for out of area operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya inspired many changes. In the past, the Joint Force Commands (JFCs) became sourcing HQs for operations and the theatre component commands like maritime command (MARCOM) and air command (AIRCOM) ran day to day operations for the alliance in Europe. There is now a complete reversal where the JFCs will manage deterrence for the alliance and the components will source operations and activities with high end capabilities. . .here

The RF way:

The Soviets see non-linear battle as one in which separate “tactically independent” battalions and regiments/brigades fight meeting battles and secure their flanks by means of obstacles, long-range fires and tempo. . . . Large units, such as divisions and armies, may influence the battlea through employment of their reserves and long-range attack systems, but the outcome will be decided by the actions of combined arms battalions and regiments/brigades fighting separately on multiple axes in support of a common plan and objective. . . . Tactical combat will be even more destructive than in the past and will be characterized by fragmented [ochagovyy] or non-linear combat. The front line will disappear and terms such as “zones of combat” will replace the outdated concepts of FEBA, FLOT and FLET. No safe havens or “deep rear” will exist. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 17 2023 23:19 utc | 142

“The prime minister will use a London summit to call on investors to match Ukraine’s “bravery on the battlefield” by stepping up support for the country’s economic recovery.”
Ok. Here’s the deal: we totally fucked up in Ukraine; we spent millions of your hard earned pounds on supporting a doomed enterprise, but hey, can you give some more to rebuild a failed/corrupt country? (Endorsed by “yours truly” – daily mail columnist bojo.)

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 17 2023 23:26 utc | 144

Cyril #20:48 utc | 109

China has definitely had the power to range across the world — or at least across the biggest continent — many times and has not gone out slaughtering millions. Not in thousands of years.
In less than a century, the US has killed 20 to 30 million people. This is far, far worse.
You aren’t justified in smearing China and Russia with the US’s dirty record.

Thank you for that perfect ripost to neofuedalfuture.
China does NOT copy the disgraceful ‘Venetian’ now Western method of threat, disrupt, imperil, undermine the nations it seeks trade with. But the blind racists cannot stand the Chinese methods and successes so they sow their absurd seeds of bitterness.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 17 2023 23:42 utc | 146

Mercouris made an interesting point that’s counterintuitive. After the US won, Germany and Japan became close allies, friends – even though they previously hated the US viciously. Could the same thing happen to Ukraine and Russia?
So, ‘something’ happened to Zaluzhny and Budanov but nothing to Zelensky? His fanatical refusal to negotiate could be a huge gift to the Russian war effort. If he asked for a ceasefire, that might slow down or stop Russia in the field. How difficult is it to continue a war effort when the opponent has stopped? Might injure SMO morale.
And .. will there be massive military introspection after Ukraine loses? The Leopard is vulnerable, the Patriot doesn’t really work, the US is way behind on electronic warfare (and lots more). I expect headlines coming about this.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 17 2023 23:49 utc | 148

News from KIaganat of Nuland (former Ukraine):
“How Israeli mobile crematoriums help hide Ukraine’s Kosher Nostra mass sale of organs to the EU:” https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/02/25/how-israeli-mobile-crematoriums-help-hide-ukraines-kosher-nostra-mass-sale-of-organs-to-the-eu/
“In Ukraine, black marker transplant surgeons removed organs from still living people and then cremated the corpses:” https://journal-neo.org/2022/03/29/israel-ukraine-and-black-market-transplant-surgeons/
“In early 2022 the Defense Minister of Germany Christine Lambrecht announced that Ukraine received a field hospital and a crematorium. Some media connected such a “gift” with a long well-oiled illegal business of selling organs of Ukrainian troops to the EU, the US, and Israel under the protection of SSU as indicated by many traits. The media has already reported that black marker transplant surgeons removed organs from still living people and then cremated the corpses. The victims are mostly injured Ukrainian troops who were delivered unconscious to the hospital from the frontlines. Captured militiamen and civilians were sold for organs, with women and children usually to be selected…
The announcement of allotment of a field hospital and a crematorium caused serious unrest in Ukrainian divisions at the demarcation line, with an increase of instances of desertion and suicides which the commanders are trying to cover up by all means. In Ukrainian troops’ opinion, this hospital can be used for removing organs and subsequent covering of these criminal activities using the crematorium.
Recently a German-language publication “Neues aus Russland”published a fascinating story about mobile crematoriums in Ukraine which help conceal the major selling of organs to the EU. Given this context, it is notable that not only Germany but Israel too has lately expressed major interest in deploying its “field hospitals” in Ukraine where an increasing number of causalities as a result of Moscow’s denazification special operation has been observed. As reported by Israeli media on March 23 an Israeli “field hospital” was opened in Mostyska in the Lviv oblast. Israel further notes that the number of “field hospitals” can soon be increased…”

Posted by: Cerena | Jun 17 2023 23:52 utc | 150

Posted by: Eclavdra | Jun 17 2023 23:19 utc | 146

.. Putin and most of the Russian leadership knows the West is not agreement capable, and has known that since 2002 or so.

I don’t think this is fully correct simply by the fact, that “the West” could have been perceived as not a completely uniform block maybe up until the year 2022.
Russian leadership tends to reach out a hand to cooperate. Remember how harsh people were in regard to Turkey after Turkey went against Russia’s ally Syria. In retrospect staying calm might very well have been the right decision, as Turkey now at least stayed neutral in the emerging Cold War instead of having been pushed towards the West.
Before Merkel and Hollande agreed with Poroshenko’s stated intention mid-2022, that it was never about trying to have peace with Russia but always just about preparing for war with Russia, before that one might have thought that the European leadership might not have been so depraved to fully subjugate their countries’ interests under transatlantic commands to the obvious detriment of the whole European continent. After Merkel basically chose to (diplomatically) spit in Putin’s face it became absolutely clear, that no government in Europa can be trusted.

Posted by: Roland | Jun 18 2023 0:03 utc | 152

Doctorow has a very succinct take and summary of President Putin’s discussion in St. Petersburg yesterday – which I listened to live – a witness to living history ….
I know this has been discussed here … but read Doctorow again …
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/06/16/high-point-of-the-st-petersburg-international-economic-forum-putin-on-stage/
And the absolute sh1te I’m subjected to in the Western MSM …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 18 2023 0:10 utc | 154

Both China and Russia have been involved in mass deaths too, usually internally but that’s just where their interests lie. Given the opportunity you’d find that they’d be no better if given the power to range across the world.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 17 2023 20:13 utc | 98
———————————————————————-
Since, as you suggest, humanity cannot improve itself and it conditions, we might as well return to the Stoneage, why resist slavery and feudalism? Why did we fight Helter and fascism (what a waste of time) I won’t do it again because I’ve done it twice here on MoA already, but there is a progression in which capitalism and nationalism is just milestone on the way (this is assuming that we humans do not destroy the planet first) to something better and rational.

Posted by: Ed | Jun 18 2023 0:19 utc | 156

@ Shocked | Jun 17 2023 20:01 utc | 90
Is it that Russia regained its properties by agreeing to open a consulate , or is it, that Putin decided to help out Netanyahu with this move ? Either way, Russia is screwing over the Palestinians and will anger the Muslim world. This move only benefits Israel.
——————————————————-
I am shocked that you are shocked, I guess that makes you a shock troll.

Posted by: Ed | Jun 18 2023 0:22 utc | 158

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 18 2023 0:19 utc | 160 “So said Putin to the African Delegation today…”
Russia intended to take Kyiv. Russia believed Ukraine would not fight. Russian troops testified in Russian courts they had orders to patorl the streets of Kyiv after it fell.
https://twitter.com/PjotrSauer/status/1530181502398611456
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/27/115-russian-national-guard-soldiers-sacked-for-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine
https://www.ft.com/content/7a63fc25-2e34-4030-b957-81a1500b7012
In the end the Russians fought their way into the Kyiv and got to the zoo.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1497385748680556548
https://twitter.com/i/status/1497384009420136457
https://twitter.com/i/status/1497386752054546433

Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 18 2023 0:27 utc | 160

But it is *not* for he benefit of “America” — just for the self-percieved benefit of a particular segment of population (a “class” or Overclass, steered via disproportionate influence from an especially malevolent ethnocentric group?) presently exploiting the USA as its power base.
Posted by: Cynic | Jun 17 2023 20:19 utc | 101
—————————-
Hey Cynic, read some Marx, Engles, and Lenin. It might help clarify some things for you; Put things into perspective.

Posted by: Ed | Jun 18 2023 0:30 utc | 162

Posted by: Down South | Jun 17 2023 18:26 utc | 47
<= I suspicion global for-profit wheat and oat industry interest explain the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station destruction. Posted by: Down South | Jun 17 2023 18:29 utc | 48 Corporations [exploit everyone and every thing to] buy land and resources for pennies <=the hidden belligerents are privately held, stock market supported,nation state transparent global corporations seeking to make a profit. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 17 2023 19:45 utc | 85 " Just because it doesn't make "sense" to us, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to someone else. <= Maybe the private stock market backed, nation state independent global corporations have made good sense of it? Watzov | Jun 17 2023 16:33 utc | 13 Those [oligarchs and their corporations] who rule the West may resort to biological and chemical warfare or destruction of dams, NSII and on and on.. If there is a profit in it, the stock market backed corporations will be there to benefit. Its not America that is the problem its the nation state independent corporations. Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 17 2023 19:58 utc | 89 [The War in Ukraine] was provoked by the West and it was provoked on the LoC in February 2022. As with Syria, as elsewhere, we see the Europeans attempting to leverage American financial and military power for their own ends rather than being overborne by it. For, from where I'm sitting, and figuratively speaking, the White Tiger had more to do with this conflict than the Neocon Hawk. <=exactly, If there is a profit in it, the stock market backed nation state independent corporations will pull the strings that activate the armies, regime changes, and corruptions. Posted by: Cynic | Jun 17 2023 20:19 utc | 101 -- any *potential* future challenger or equal -- even if a puppet or ally -- must be eliminated. <=exactly, If there is a profit in it, the stock market backed, nation state independent corporations will manipulate the nations to allow the corporations to take advantage of the competitor. Posted by: Cynic | Jun 17 2023 20:19 utc | 101 it is *not* for he benefit of "America" -- just for the self-perceived benefit of a particular segment of population (a "class" or Overclass, steered via disproportionate influence from an especially malevolent ethnocentric group?) presently exploiting the USA as its power base. <=The reason for this war and the refusal to settle it is staring you in the face. Its the stock market backed, nation state independent corporations. and the oligarchs that own them, [the owners of the Deep state], To validate this claim it is necessary only to track the laws on foreign ownership of land, copyrights, patents, and the privatization of governments. Likely you will find laws that enable foreign corporate ownership or control over the businesses,labor and resource within most nation states. Posted by: Cerena | Jun 17 2023 21:05 utc | 111 Owners (bankers and fascist mega corporations). <= The reason for this war and the refusal to settle it is staring you in the face. Its the stock market backed nation state independent corporations and the oligarchs that own them, [the owners of the Deep state], your links at Posted by: Cerena | Jun 17 2023 21:56 utc | 123 are highly appreciated. Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Jun 17 2023 23:10 utc | 143 Witness what is happening in all nations administration which make the patriot act seem like child’s play. Absolute control is certain while we watch the SMO. <= the telling thing about the "corporate control over the political system" is these global corporations have no home nation state [they are not patriotic], their corporate presence is everywhere, globalism is an essential necessity for their bottom lines. Likely humanity has found itself at war with the well hidden and well disguised corporations which the nation state system created. IMO unless the power and strength of the corporations is reduced to politically manageable sizes and strengths no agreement, treaty or war outcome, will be sufficient to change anything. If the corporations get their way, they will find ways to micro manage the behaviors, liberties and thoughts of every individual in the world. Posted by: Eclavdra | Jun 17 2023 23:19 utc | 146 the West is not agreement capable, <=because the global nation state independent corporations are in control of the political structure of the nation states. No politician has the authority to make permanent anything; corporate control is at the helm.

Posted by: snake | Jun 18 2023 0:34 utc | 164

Posted by: Innuendo | Jun 18 2023 0:30 utc | 164
Territory is irrelevant. The deal Zelensky made with ziocons is exchanging and deluding the entire population for US cannon fodder in exchange for mansions in the Mediterranean coast, Florida, many briefcases of money, Lamborghinis etc.
They finally decided to fully mobilized western Ukraine. This is finally where we get to the “denazification” part.
Now it would be fine and dandy if professional Ukraine army and command structures were still intact, but at this stage throwing low experience conscripts to the front simply leads to slaughter. Regardless what sort of equipment you give them, they won’t know how to use it, they have commanders who don’t know what to do. The assumed F-16 air superiority will never come, they will be sporadic nuisance without contributing in scale to any offensive.
It will be nothing but knife through hot butter, slaughter.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 18 2023 0:39 utc | 166

unimperator | Jun 18 2023 0:39 utc | 168
Don’t forget the Challengers will be in action soon. Just a question of getting more DU ammo. And if they don’t make it there is still the Abrams.

Posted by: dh | Jun 18 2023 0:53 utc | 168

https://www.rt.com/news/578208-biden-ukraine-easy-nato/
Does this tell us something important? Does it suggest that Biden and company are angry and fed up with Ukraine – and that they feel that they have given enough and supplied enough? This could be consistent with the horrific push behind Ukr slaughter. Could they abandon Ukraine in a sense of contempt and disgust for them? It also suggests a significant disagreement between the US and its EU running dog lackeys (always liked that phrase).

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 18 2023 1:00 utc | 170

there is a progression in which capitalism and nationalism is just milestone on the way (this is assuming that we humans do not destroy the planet first) to something better and rational.
Ed @159

Why Ed, I couldn’t agree more. I envision high technology, with a battle forget aristocracy with no democracy beyond school councilors, or other places where you want people motivated to prove themselves.
I suspect your vision is different, viva la difference.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 18 2023 1:04 utc | 172

Re Helis stored at Berdyansk:
1. Kiev announcing it intends to Storm Shadow hit them. Lol. Obviously boastful shite for their masses.
2. Lots of angsty pro-Russians piping up, ” But why is Moscow so stupid as to store them all together?”
3. Possible scenario: RF is using them as a honey trap for those very same Storm Shadows, intentionally far but within their range. Considering the area would have massive 24/7 AD, and assuming RF confidence in shooting them down, the net outcome would be (a) less Storm Shadows, (b) a massive AFU/UK/NATO demoralising and a lovely RF PR win. (c) And, lol, the helis could even take off between early warning launch and airport arrival!!!!

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 18 2023 1:27 utc | 174

WARNING: LONG POST Highlighting is mine.
Plenary session of the St Petersburg International Economic Forum
Vladimir Putin took part in the plenary session of the 26th St Petersburg International Economic Forum.
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/71445
Putin responded to questions about the Ukraine counteroffensive and the Ukraine conflict in general…

As for demilitarization… Look, soon Ukraine will have to stop using its own hardware. There will be nothing left. Everything they are fighting with and everything they are using is being brought in from the outside. But it is impossible to fight like that indefinitely. Meanwhile, our defence industry is gaining momentum every day. We have increased military production by 2.7 times during the last year. Our production of the most critical weapons has gone up ten times and keeps increasing. Plants are working in two or three shifts, and some are busy around the clock. This proves to us that our safety margin is very big.
What is happening with this so-called counteroffensive? Not quite as planned – in some places, Ukrainian units are reaching the first line whereas in others, they are not, but this is not the main point. The problem is that they are using so-called strategic reserves that consist of several components. The first one is designed for breaking defences; the second one, for using troops to hold territories and move on these territories. What is really important is that they have not reached their goals in any section.
Indeed, they have sustained very heavy losses – even more than one to ten compared to the Russian army. This is a fact. As for hardware, every day they are losing more and more hardware. As of today, the Ukrainian army has lost about 186 tanks and 418 armoured vehicles of different types. I am not talking about personnel – this is for the Defence Ministry to announce. But, let me repeat that there are no successes in any of the directions. The enemy has gained no success, as the military report.
As we are talking, another attempt is taking place at the Vremevsky ledge. The enemy is trying to attack in several areas using several units with support of five tanks. The same is taking place in the Zaporozhye direction with the support of two tanks and several armoured vehicles. They came to the first line and lost several tanks. A battle is ongoing there now. I think the Armed Forces of Ukraine have no chance here and won’t have a chance here like in other areas. I have no doubt about this.

Responding to a question about Nazism in Ukraine…

Vladimir Putin: I have had many Jewish friends since childhood. They say: Zelensky is not a Jew but a disgrace to the Jewish people.
This is not a joke or irony. Do you understand? After all, neo-Nazis, followers of Hitler, have been raised on pedestals as today’s heroes in Ukraine. The Holocaust means killing 6 million Jews, one and a half million of which were killed in Ukraine, and primarily at the hands of Bandera followers.
I had no doubt that you would ask such a question and last night, when I was going to bed, I called Moscow and asked them to compile some materials. I called them when I was here already. Look, Yaroslav Stetsko, head of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists, Bandera’s faction, 1939: “Moscow and Judaism are Ukraine’s greatest enemies. I insist on the extermination the Jews and the need to adapt German methods to dealing with Jewry in Ukraine.”
Another activist. July 10, 1941, the Lvov pogroms, when German units entered Lvov. A certain Stepan Lenkavsky writes, “Regarding the Jews, we accept all methods that will lead to their complete extermination.” What is this?
You know, I read the testimony of a freak from among Bandera followers after the war, where he wrote about how he and other people like him led a Jewish family to be shot. It is impossible to read this without getting a lump in your throat. The head of the family was a disabled man, missing an arm, his wife and two children, 11 and 7 years old, I think, both girls. They took them to be shot. That disabled man knew what was going to happen, everyone understood that they were being led to an execution, so he hugged the dog with his one arm and started to cry. They took him away and shot him. And his children, girls, aged 7 and 11, too.
One and a half million Jews were killed, without counting the Russians and the Poles, who, by the way, have not forgotten, at the everyday level, about what happened in Ukraine because of the Bandera followers. Well, the Poles have their own goals; they dream of retaking Western Ukraine. And, apparently, they are gradually moving towards this goal. But we are talking about the Holocaust. How can you deny it?
I offer my apologies to the President of Algeria, our guest. I knew you would ask me that. To reiterate, as I was going to bed yesterday, I asked to not only send this piece of paper, but also to send something more tangible. We keep saying the same thing over and over again. Bandera was an anti-Semite and a neo-Nazi. But no one appears to want to hear that because Zelensky has Jewish blood. But he is covering for these freaks, these neo-Nazis, with his actions.
Ok, they tore down a monument to Lenin. I spoke with journalists recently, ok, it is your own business, although he is the founder of modern Ukraine, never mind. But why are you putting Nazis on this pedestal?
I am not sure if they had a chance to get that video ready, I asked them to. Do you have it? There should be some material lasting two minutes. Please play it if you have it.
(A military chronicle is screened.)
Vladimir Putin: This is Bandera and his minions. These are the people who today are the heroes of Ukraine, whom the current Ukrainian government is defending, both as individuals and their ideology. How can you not fight this? We must fight this. Russia was the country hardest hit by the war against Nazism. We will never forget this.
Just like ordinary people in Israel, by the way. Check what they are saying on the internet in plain, clear Russian. Take a look and you will understand everything.
How can you not fight it? If this is not the current edition of neo-Nazism, then what is it? We have every right to believe that our goal of denazifying Ukraine is one of the key goals.

In response to a question about NATO involvement in the Ukraine war… Note the warning which I’ve highlighted.

Vladimir Putin: Of course, NATO is becoming involved in the war in Ukraine. What are we talking about? There are deliveries of military hardware, heavy equipment. Now they are considering supplies of aircraft as well. I have already mentioned today that we are seeing attempts to mount attacks by two companies with the support of five tanks in one area. One and a half company supported by two tanks makes attempts in another area. The tanks are burning; several tanks have been destroyed, including the Leopards. Several tanks, including the Leopards, burned yesterday too. They are burning. The F-16s will be burning too, no doubt about it.
But if they are located at air bases outside Ukraine and are used in hostilities, we will have to think about how and where we can hit the resources that are used against us in the hostilities. There is a serious danger of NATO’s further involvement in this armed conflict.

In response to a question about his opinion of Western leaders…

As for Mr Chirac, this was a person possessing encyclopedic knowledge in the full sense of the word. Some of today’s leaders do not even have a higher education, but it is the specifics of the political system in some countries that promotes people with, let us say, limited educational training and cultural levels.
Jacques Chirac is not with us anymore, he was a major political figure. I asked him once: why do US leaders behave in such a manner, act so aggressively and short-sightedly in some cases? He answered me in Russian: because they are uncultured. Direct quote.
And this has to do with the level of general education and understanding of the trajectory of real-world processes or lack of understanding of these real-world processes. But, no matter what, we respect all our partners. I hope that the current challenges we are facing, including in the sphere of security, will lead us to an understanding that security must be equal for everyone, something we have always told our partners.

In this, he sounds exactly like Andrei Martyanov! Western leaders simply have no education in the real world.
In response to a question about Donald Trump…

Vladimir Putin: As far as Mr Trump is concerned, a host of sanctions and restrictions on Russia were introduced during his presidency. Note that there were no grievous, tragic events in Ukraine, not even a hint of them, yet sanctions were imposed. But I do not rule out that with a different administration [in the United States], we could have achieved a peaceful settlement plan, which Ukraine and western capitals rejected unfortunately. And they announced this publicly.
As for contacts, there are practically none. But we have never declined. If there is any desire to maintain a dialogue with us – welcome, it is not us who refuse to carry on a dialogue with them, they just shifted the focus of this dialogue to arms supplies. We will burn everything they have supplied and see what they will do next.
I have already cited the number, around 30 percent, it is now confirmed that 30 percent of supplied heavy armoured equipment has been destroyed. Not only Bradleys and Leopards, these are overall figures. Two hundred eighteen tanks, including Leopards, and 418 armoured vehicles, with Bradleys among them, these are the numbers. But there are no doubts that this process will continue.
It would have been better for them to choose another path and seek peaceful means of resolving the dispute, but it has not come to that yet. We see that they are trying to win a victory on the battlefield. Good luck. We will see the result. It did not work so far and is unlikely to.

In response to a question about how Putin views the US efforts to attack inside Russian territories…

Vladimir Putin: Look, everything you have said is an attempt to provoke us into taking serious and powerful response measures. The attempt to damage the Kremlin, which is the residence of the President of the Russian Federation, attacks on the Belgorod Region and neighbouring regions of Russia are attempts to provoke us into taking response measures. Listen, we have destroyed five Patriot air defence systems near Kiev. Do you think it is hard for us to destroy any building or structure in the centre of Kiev? It is not. We are not doing it for several reasons. There are many reasons, but I will tell you about them later. I will tell this only to you so far, not in public.
But we do have this capability, and everyone knows this and is waiting for us to start pushing buttons. There is no need for that; this is the first point. There is no need for that, because the enemy is not succeeding on the frontline, that is the point. Knowing that there is little chance of success, they are provoking us into making a harsh response, hoping to point the finger at us and say, “Look at them; they are malicious and cruel; nobody should have any dealings with them.” They want to say this to all the partners we are working with now. So, no, there is no need to take such actions.
As for talking or not talking with them, I will repeat that we have never refused to do it. It was them who decided to stop talking with us. If they do not want to talk with us, they are free not to do so. A day will come when they will want to do it, and then we will see when and what we can talk about with them.
As for these adjacent territories, it is an attempt to distract our attention from the possible key areas of the main offensive they are considering, an attempt to force us to redeploy units we have amassed in other areas of combat, and so on. There is nothing unusual about that. We will react calmly, and we will fight back.
I have already said that if these attacks on our adjacent territories continue, we will consider the possibility of creating a buffer zone in the Ukrainian territory. They should know what this can lead to. We use long-range high-precision weapons against military targets, and we are succeeding in all these areas.
It is enough to look at the destruction of weapons depots and military personnel, including foreign mercenaries, and at the performance of our hardware in that area. We always respond. We do not advertise our response, but it is painful, and the enemy is aware of this.

In response to a question about tactical nuclear weapons use by Russia in Ukraine…

Vladimir Putin: I reject this. It is certainly theoretically possible to use nuclear weapons this way. For Russia, it is possible if there is a threat to our territorial integrity, independence and sovereignty, an existential threat to the Russian state. Nuclear weapons are created to ensure our security, in the broadest sense of the word, and the existence of the Russian state.
First, we see no need to use it; and second, considering this, even as a possibility, factors into lowering the threshold for the use of such weapons. This is my first point.
The second point is that we have more such nuclear weapons than NATO countries. They know about it and never stop trying to persuade us to start nuclear reduction talks. Like hell we will, right? A popular phrase. (Laughter.) Because, putting it in the dry language of economic essays, it is our competitive advantage.
As you know, we have been in talks with our partner in the Union State – with President Lukashenko – about deploying some of these tactical nuclear weapons to Belarusian territory. This has happened. The first nuclear warheads have been delivered to Belarus, but only the first batch. There will be more. By the end of the summer, by the end of this year, we will complete this work.
This is an element of deterrence, so that everyone who thinks of inflicting a strategic defeat on us should keep this circumstance in mind.
Dimitri Simes: Mr President, as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, you know better than I do that for deterrence to be effective the enemy should at least concede the possibility that, if deterrence does not attain its goal, you will do what the circumstances require. Did I understand you correctly?
Vladimir Putin: (Addressing Abdelmadjid Tebboune.) Mr President, what is he urging or forcing me to do? What does he want me to say? Does he want me to frighten the world? Why would I need to do it?
I have already said that the use of the ultimate deterrent is only possible in case of a threat to the Russian state. In this case, we will certainly use all the forces and means at the disposal of the Russian state. There is no doubt about that.
But I would like to remind everyone that the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons against a non-nuclear state is the United States, which has delivered two strikes at cities in Japan: Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They thought that they had the right to do that. The precedent was created by the United States.
Dimitri Simes: Mr President, pardon me for pressuring you. It is my job.

And finally, in response to a question about what would Putin want to tell Biden…

Dimitri Simes: Mr President Putin, my last question. It is a difficult one but it would be almost obligatory in America. If President Biden was interviewed in a similar situation, he would be asked: What would you like to tell Mr Putin?
I do not know if there is anything you would like to tell Mr Biden, but, nevertheless, what main lesson would you like President Biden to draw from what you have said today in this audience and, more broadly, regarding Russia’s foreign policy?
Vladimir Putin: President Biden is an adult person and an experienced politician. It is not my place to teach him. Let him do what he thinks necessary, and we will do what we think is in the interests of the Russian Federation and the people of Russia.
And everybody will have to take this into account.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 18 2023 1:41 utc | 176

A number of posters have commented that the Russians should make it loud and clear to 404 conscripts that they should surrender and they will be treated as brethren. Strongly agree. They should also make it loud and clear that those forcing conscripts into the meat grinder will face one of 2 options: an independent demilitarised Russian friendly rump Ukraine post war that will have and use the death penalty for war crimes or a Ukraine that joins into Russia where they will face life without parole.
Also some posters believe that post war Ukraine will have US backed underground insergency to make Russian control problematic. Personally I think any insergents will be hiding out from being hunted down by the millions of Ukrainians whose families suffered financial and human loss from the UkoNazis. Even the scum that flee to their mansions in Switzerland and Miami will have to look over their shoulders for fear former UkoNazi true believers that realise that they were made use of will seek atonement by shanking their former commanders.
Russia should also promise to help build post war Ukraine and sieze any assets of carpetbaggers like Cargill and Blackrock think they own. Not one acre of farmland will belong to those corporations.

Posted by: Neal | Jun 18 2023 1:50 utc | 178

Russia intended to take Kyiv. Russia believed Ukraine would not fight. Russian troops testified in Russian courts they had orders to patorl the streets of Kyiv after it fell.
https://twitter.com/PjotrSauer/status/1530181502398611456
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/27/115-russian-national-guard-soldiers-sacked-for-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine
https://www.ft.com/content/7a63fc25-2e34-4030-b957-81a1500b7012

Like many….. you cite NATO/CIA/NSA/MI6 sources for info WRT Russian plans and aims…
YET…..
You totally ignore what the Russians, and in particular, their President says their aims and goals
are / were…..
WHICH SPECIFICALLY MEANS THAT YOU ARE AN MI6/CIA/NSA/FBI TROLL….
NOT SO….
Then post in your real name… stand and deliver… like a man…. not like a snake….
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 18 2023 2:01 utc | 180

English Outsider | Jun 17 2023 19:58 utc | 89
The threads of the war in Ukraine go way, way back. I would contend that if there is a historian left to sift through the events of 2023, they might call it the 125 Year Global War. The War plotted by Balfour, Rhodes, double agent Morgan, Kaiser Wilhelm, Rockefeller, & a cast too large to mention, still lumbers on. The atomic Pax Americana is winding down and the 4th Act is ready to begin.

Posted by: Eric Blair | Jun 18 2023 2:07 utc | 182

Eric Blair | Jun 18 2023 2:07 utc | 184 You need to go back further than that. To the marriage of Queen Hedwig of Poland to Jogaila, grand duke of Lithuania

Posted by: dh | Jun 18 2023 2:25 utc | 184

Russia has no intention of occupying Ukraine. Although I doubt the new entity will bear the same moniker.
Lavrov has plainly stated Russia’s new objective- “The goal is not negotiation, the goal is capitulation.
https://t.me/BellumActaNews/97329
Speaking of monikers, there’s a case of the 2 james going on at the bar. Handy hint the fake james is anti russian and agreeing with trolls, the real james is the one making sensible comments and pointing out the fake one 😉 (c’mon B, do something already!)

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 18 2023 2:30 utc | 186

Posted by: DakotaRog | Jun 17 2023 22:10 utc | 126
…Thanks for the update. Do you have any idea of the average age of MoA folks? My gut feeling it is above 60. By the way, I reached that number last year…
Hi Iniana Joe,
my estimated feeling is above 60 and also below 60 – Okay, could have understood so far?
Posted by: spare_truth | Jun 17 2023 22:18 utc | 127
Hi Indiana Joe –
You’re just located by last IP-ref at the Arizona State located (online linked village and address not yet named here by Your IT-Provider, publicly) ..
But pls. if asking for the “average age” of MoAs, You 1st. have to declare what Your issue is to such a “question” .. Pls. try once more …
Posted by: spare_truth | Jun 17 2023 22:26 utc | 131
spare_truth, are you wasted…?
Where do you get “Indiana Joe” and think I’m in Arizona??
Why did I ask about the average age of MoA people? Because I’m a curious person, part of my nature.

Posted by: DakotaRog | Jun 18 2023 2:37 utc | 188

100 maybe the words were missed in Putins statement, it cements the land site they own earmarked for a diplomatic mission in Jerusalem . One in Jerusalem one in Tel Aviv. In Australia the second diplomatic mission site was challenged in court, claiming a use it or lose it clause, building took too long to construct clause, anything clause, and lost legal challenge to the cancellation of the lease. Australian government now tries to legislate to cancel and confiscate the land leased for a RF consulate building. RF has said they would want compensation for such event, which legislation would negate. Reality says Jerusalem will end up as capital and there wont be two states, (bibi stated this emphatically for 30 yrs)

Posted by: hankster | Jun 18 2023 2:44 utc | 190

Huge number of videos of nazi armour getting wiped out. Feel free to ignore the preliminary Trump stuff, it’s not relevant.
https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/06/16/dreizin-brain-candy-explosion-biggest-video-dump-in-history/

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 18 2023 3:01 utc | 192

dh | Jun 18 2023 2:25 utc | 186
Thank you dh, there are so many, many threads. My limited knowledge of history tells me that “unprovoked attack” is quite the outlier in the annals of war. War is an integral part of the human condition that precedes even the legend of the Anunaki. Sadly, history in the USA is only written on an Etch A Sketch.

Posted by: Eric Blair | Jun 18 2023 3:08 utc | 194

Tim2 # 0:27 utc | 163

In the end the Russians fought their way into the Kyiv and got to the zoo.

Well at least they found the smartest primates on the block. No wonder they left.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 18 2023 3:28 utc | 196

Suresh #2:30 utc | 188

Russia has no intention of occupying Ukraine. Although I doubt the new entity will bear the same moniker.
Lavrov has plainly stated Russia’s new objective- “The goal is not negotiation, the goal is capitulation.

The ukraine is a western region of Russia and has been there since the mid 1600’s. It is not a ‘state’ to occupy. The ukraine currently has some very unpleasant throwbacks from the nazi past who have been coddled along as a color revolutionary cadre by the west for the past decade or two.
When the renegade wannabe colour revolutionaries capitulate, the current warfare will end. There may well be a revolt among the cannon fodder troops who might just assist Russia in erasing the nazi elite when the tipping point comes. It takes a while for the message to sink in and the right circumstance to manifest.
Putin and Lavrov have made the legalities of this so called statehood farce perfectly clear for some time and recently made it even more abundantly clear.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 18 2023 3:41 utc | 198

Re: organ harvesting
This week, 6 faculty at Harvard Medical School were indicted for illegal organ harvesting – including organ harvesting of babies.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 18 2023 4:01 utc | 200