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June 15, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-141
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Slavyangrad telegram channel reports..
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/50982
Ukrainian channel Legitimny:
Our source reports that the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine complain about the low level of professionalism of the officers.
This is due to the fact that due to losses, it is necessary to attract not “qualified” personnel. Not to mention drunkenness in the army, even among officers.
But the situation is even sadder, since the same officers in the reports complain about the low quality of the “new” soldiers, poor morale, drunkenness and “use”.
Problems at the moment are being solved only due to the number of people in the army, but no one can say that this problem will not worsen and become catastrophic in the second year of the war in 2024. Especially after the “bloody offensive”.
Everyone says that even now it is necessary to increase foreign training by two or even three times, plus doubling the training time to three or four months, in order to at least move the catastrophe by a year. It is virtually impossible to solve it on our own, without the direct participation of foreign soldiers.
The source adds that Western partners are aware of this problem. But they are not in a hurry to fix it – it’s expensive.
In the beginning, this problem was solved by mercenaries with Western officers “advisers”, but after dozens of arrivals at checkpoints and losses, their number decreased significantly, exposing the problem.
More cracks…..
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 16 2023 10:09 utc | 301
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 16 2023 8:46 utc | 293
As a reminder, Russia has been storming Marinka since March 2022. Which tells you a lot about Russia’s actual military capabilities.
Posted by: Sour | Jun 16 2023 10:22 utc | 302
All is in the geography & demographics.
(All of this only applies if we get past MAD, (again)).
Posted by: SIXTUS V | Jun 16 2023 10:01 utc | 306
It does not appear to me that the current leaders of China and Russia plan to be hegemons, they are not that dumb, therefore a lot of your blah blah blah will not happen. Later on, when they get fat, dumb, and happy like we did, well, you never know.
Despite our many flaws, we didn’t used to be that dumb either, except for a few dumb ass plutocrats, which we have far too many of now to have much chance to compete at all. That is why we hate competition, we used to be good at it, now everything we sell is crap or some smart ass “innovator” wants to crapify it to get rich quick.
In any case, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, and we are getting more free all the time.
When you own a billion, the money owns you too. It is just like with debts that way.
I remember when the cash first piled up in my bank account, cause I was being paid well, and then you start obsessing about it, seeing how it is doing today, reading all the market bullshit (and it is ALL bullshit), and so on. And then the markets tank and your day is ruined. Whereas you never gave a crap before. Meanwhile you don’twant to spend it, since then you won’t have it. Etc.
And then you get guys coming here and going on and on about their money obsessions like it was physics or something, and not a thing we made ourselves and can do what we like with. (i.e. more bullshit.)
Nah, enough is enough, and that goes for money too. Everything has limits.
Life IS a Faustian bargain, that is the point of the story.
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 16 2023 10:25 utc | 303
De-dollarization will make the American economy crumble.
It is not a chance that “woke” ideology, neo-cons and neo-libs, inclusivity and de-europeanisation of history are all a by-product of American culture. All those ideologies are based on the re-writing of history and American history was completely rewrote by Hollywood: they are the experts in that field. The probem is Americans do not know what de-dollarization wil be like, because they do not know what pre-WWII USA was like.
Posted by: SG | Jun 16 2023 10:45 utc | 304
Posted by: hankster | Jun 16 2023 9:15 utc | 293
“Bundestag deputy Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmerman proposed to provide German airfields to Ukrainian aircraft so that they could take off from them for attacks on Russia…”
And the way she said it, in a prime-time much-viewed talk show, strongly suggests this is a deliberately planted statement. She led up to the statement with some intro “yes, and you heard it here first, in full colour..”
Launching planes from Germany seems to make no sense, one wonder what the intended purpose is of that provocation.
Posted by: Leser | Jun 16 2023 10:45 utc | 305
Simplinkus the thinker’s latest SITREP….
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-61523-kakhovka-powerplay-heats
Neural networks control the guidance of the Lancets of the UAV-the Lancet kamikaze has long been the main means of counter-battery warfare of the Russian army. But
few people know why the Lancets are so effective. Let’s try to open a little gray veil hiding the answers to these questions.
High-performance microcomputers on the Lancet kamikaze UAV and the reconnaissance UAV are used to operate the latest generation of neural networks in order to detect and classify targets. At the same time, both UAVs actively exchange results with each other in flight. For those who are not in the subject – let’s explain what neural networks are. There is a chip on each drone. It provides the use of convolutional networks of the latest generation. Such networks are many times superior to human capabilities by recognizing visual images. What is a convolutional neural network?
So, a convolutional neural network is a class of networks that specializes in image and video processing. Such neural networks solve exactly two tasks well: they recognize objects and classify them. The Lancet reconnaissance UAVs and the Lancets themselves, using a convolutional neural network, are just engaged in recognizing and classifying targets on the battlefield.
Previously, there were rumors that “Lancets” are induced with the help of “Eagles”. However, this is a mistake, even during the development of the complex, a special. The UAV is a scout. The scout is made according to the “flying wing” scheme. It is somewhat similar to the “Eagle”, but specially adapted for the tasks of reconnaissance, recognition and classification of the object.
They soar in the sky on an almost silent electric motor for 5 hours. With the help of convolutional networks of the latest generation, such a reconnaissance UAV easily detects enemy targets and transmits images of identified objects to the Lancet high-performance microcomputer which in turn manages the priorities of the goals. According to the available information, neural networks best detect moving objects. They also perfectly recognize objects under disguise. But unfortunately, they still do not work well with the layouts of the equipment.
That’s not all! Lancets use convolutional neural networks for visual odometry! What is visual odometry? In simple terms, this is the ability to navigate on the ground without GPS or GLONASS. The AI simply compares the images from the camera of the reconnaissance UAV with what is in the memory card. It’s like a person who is second once he arrives at the place and says – Oh! I was here! There ‘s a cool cafe around the corner. That’s why it’s impossible to silence the Lancet’s navigation with GNSS suppression. Because he doesn’t need this navigation. Thanks to convolutional neural networks!
So, what we have. The neural network is engaged in the search and control of drones. Therefore, the operator can track several UAVs at once. After all, he does not need to direct or search for enemy objects and equipment – the operator only confirms the goals. A person has not been involved in search and recognition for a long time.
This is fascinating for several reasons: firstly, because it explains why all Western loitering drones in Ukraine so far have been dismal failures compared to the Lancet. This purports that they are susceptible to jamming because they obviously require a video feed to the operator at all times. But the Lancet would then theoretically be un-jammable because there is no ‘signal’ to jam. Everything is internal as the drone simply identifies the target on its own, makes the decision and kills it.
Russian reconnaissance and reconnaissance-strike UAVs will receive a digital catalog with electronic [optical and infrared] images of military equipment adopted in NATO countries. This will allow them to automatically identify it on the battlefield and create a map of the location of enemy positions directly onboard the device, which will be broadcast to the command post. . . . It is formed due to neural network training algorithms, which makes it possible to accurately determine the samples of equipment in a wide variety of environmental conditions, including with a short exposure (the technique is visible for several seconds or less), as well as when only part of the sample falls into the field of view of the drone—when, for example, only part of any combat vehicle is visible from cover.
He further adds that > 50 777s are left, with the rest of the 155s being a motley handful of various types..
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 16 2023 10:47 utc | 306
Posted by: Sour | Jun 16 2023 10:22 utc | 305
Ok, so you took one village out of a 900km front as a case in point of military capabilities. Did you also consider that Marinka just happened to be located on a point on the front line for that long? Is Marinka crucial for the success of SMO?
By the same method of performance measuring, we can also say AFU has been trying to storm across the Dnepr near Nova Kakohvka and Kherson, Vasilivka, Robotyne, Novofedorivka, Prylutne, Urozhaine, Rivnopil, Novodonetsk, Pavlivka, Mykilske, Marinka, Vodiane, Opytne, Krasnogorovka, Klisheevka, Bakhmut, Yahidne, Berkivka, Soledar, everything between Svatove and Kreminna and Lyman Pershyi for various lengths of time with little success. Now we can start making relative comparisons of land grab, if you really consider it a primary objective.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 16 2023 10:54 utc | 307
“The despicable phrase, “the death of 500.000 Iraqi children was “worth it,” should be engraved on the doors of the US Capitol building to remind the legislators and visitors about the moral fall of the US.
Posted by: Cerena | Jun 16 2023 3:11 utc | 250”
—except that there was no fall. The deaths of several hundred thousand Filipinos (some estimates run as high as 3 million) was also “worth it,” and then there’s the genocide of the indigenous populations of the North American continent…
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 16 2023 11:02 utc | 308
” As a reminder, Russia has been storming Marinka since March 2022. Which tells you a lot about Russia’s actual military capabilities.
Posted by: Sour | Jun 16 2023 10:22 utc ”
Not an accurate statement. Storming implies throwing men and equipment in vast numbers at a front. That hasn’t happened.
It’s been an artillery grind, plus the odd scouting party probing here and there. by both sides.
Marinka was a sideshow while the Bakmut meat-grinder was in full flow.
Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 16 2023 11:03 utc | 309
Posted by: Leser | Jun 16 2023 10:45 utc | 308
It makes no sense but it got Strack-Z into the news flow and she is a flagrant self-publicist. As a member of FDP – threatened with oblivion at the next election – she is a former bookseller’s agent married to the same and is inconsequential save for a Oleksiy Arestovych style motor-mouth. She feeds the Media.
Germany is a bit too far from Ukraine and I doubt US would want their bases open to accepting incoming Russian guided missiles or EW attacks knocking out comms and radars.
As for Germany – NO bases in former GDR can be used by NATO so if Germany wants to go it alone – “Sonderweg” – it can take its chances……….
No aircraft offered to Ukraine has the range to fly from Germany to Ukraine let alone with hope of return for refuelling. We never hear about the ancestry of this weird woman but no doubt the FSB is well aware………..
She does not mention restoring Wehrpflicht which is very odd………..I mean the draft was only suspended not abolished – yet she stays away from this “third rail”
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 16 2023 11:33 utc | 310
Posted by: Down South | Jun 16 2023 9:28 utc | 298
Well Johnson is Turkish himself……….Ali Kemal Bey, one of the last interior ministers of the Ottoman government, was assassinated in 1922 during the Turkish War of Independence…….is his great-grandfather
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 16 2023 11:35 utc | 311
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 16 2023 10:47 utc | 309
Interesting, thank for that. There are plenty of Lancet videos but they’re all human-piloted because those obviously produce live video feeds to an operator station. We don’t see a first person view from drones operating fully autonomously because they are often beyond comms range and won’t be coming home.
What hasn’t been seen, or reported at least, is drones operating over very long range via communications relay / mesh networks.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 16 2023 11:44 utc | 312
It becomes obvious that the reference to the possibilty and need for F-16’s is just political coping – to explain the lack of effectiveness to date and give people expectation of something better in the near future.
The population at this point realizes that it is risky for them to question and not necessarily an easy choice to leave – so they watch in quiet dismay.
Perhaps the optimum victory for Russia is if the people decide that Russia is not the problem, but they will arrive at that decision quietly and individually.
What I meant to say (an approximate quote):
People go mad in groups, but recover their sanity one at a time.
Posted by: jared | Jun 16 2023 11:45 utc | 313
Just returning on Marinka. The front is dynamic and reacts to various events that take place on it all the time. Now we’ve seen that main AFU force tried to attack toward Vasilivka, and Robotino on Orekhov/Zap area. It hasn’t turned out how expected, and it has also had an impact on other areas. AFU has also launched its attack on Klischeevka and Berkhivka around Artemovsk at the same time, which is difficult to judge for now but doesn’t seem to have success.
Meanwhile all this has led to Marinka becoming weakened, which means that it now leads less effort to put in to take it. And the actual goal is not actually Marinka itself, it can be thought of as a bridgehead, which will enable easy access towards SW (Vuhledar area), or W Kurakhove area. You can now see the problem for AFU, they need to set up defense in southern direction from Marinka, they also need to setup defense W of Marinka. The latter case would make the Vuhledar position sooner or later.
We can generally see AFU shuffling units around the southern front more than earlier. Shuffling units around usually means stress, and reacting to setbacks. It may also mean reorienting attack, but in the case of Vremievka we could conclude that they are trying to reinforce a failed attack. They also moved from Orekhov line to Vremievka some stuff, which releases pressure at Robotyne area. RUAF can also react to this lessened pressure by moving stuff into the area AFU moved stuff, and they seemed to do this – transfer some reserve to Urozhaine area, halting the newest AFU schwerpunkt (direction).
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 16 2023 11:50 utc | 314
Exile @ 283
Yes. 2/3 of the working age population leaving by 2022 also means 2/3 of the military age population gone. And 2/3 of any ostensible postwar guerilla/terrorist force gone. And the ones remaining behind are the dumb ones.
I will note that when we see short videos of press gangs at work there are often large numbers of military age men milling around completely unconcerned. They know very well what is happening and know that they themselves are at no risk. The poor slob singled out for instant conscription and a trip to the front is always the poorest looking person in frame. There is still something of a middle class in Ukraine and they are never going to have to fight. When there are no poor people left to send to the front it will all end
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 16 2023 12:15 utc | 315
301. I’m not sure it us you are trying to convince of this nonsense so much as yourself. USA#1, right? Yeah.
Dedollarization will cause the collapse of the US economy. If you don’t fall to immediate civil wars, I’ll be quite surprised.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 16 2023 12:26 utc | 316
Ali Kemal Bey was Ottoman – not precisely Turkish. A subtle but significant distinction.
BoJo‘s ethnic background is rather illuminating: seems his forefathers on both sides were opportunists. Moral Corruption must run deep in that family.
What’s bred in the bone….
Posted by: Exile | Jun 16 2023 12:27 utc | 317
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFO7p516uJg&pp=ygUXcHV0aW4gc3BlZWNoIGxpdmUgdG9kYXk%3D
Live now Putin addresses Economic forum St. Petersburg.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 16 2023 12:31 utc | 318
[318]
there are often large numbers of military age men milling around completely unconcerned.
Maybe they are Ukrainian-speakers !
I read that Zelensky preferred to put Hungarians from Carpathia into Bakhmut and Russian-speakers into minefields – all in the cause of ethnic purity for the Pureblood Race………….and possibly because Western counterparts prefer organs harvested from non-Ukrainian speakers
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 16 2023 13:02 utc | 319
fyi
SPIEF 23 LIVE:Russian President Vladimir Putin Speaks At St. Petersburg International Economic Forum
[dubbed in English]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFO7p516uJg
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 16 2023 13:18 utc | 320
Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 16 2023 10:09 utc | 304,who provided reports [of] the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine complain[ts]…. The complaint that really stood out for me was the one that involved doubling the training time to three or four months…!
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Jun 16 2023 13:25 utc | 321
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Jun 16 2023 13:25 utc | 324
News circulating on TG today. Ukraine will expand “general mobilization” to Ivano-Frankivsk area which will include all men of the appropriate age, and all civilian vehicles. Apparently they will acquire all the people and as many civilian cars for AFU as needed.
When it was mentioned about doubling the training time, it seems not possible unless the conscription is expanded massively (because otherwise, larger proportion of all conscripted would be in training at all times).
Expanding mobilization means that the neocons/Zelensky have given up on hopes of Ukraine ever having any sort of functioning economy or society again and are now on road to completing their status expendability for the neocons.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 16 2023 13:31 utc | 322
Posted by: jared | Jun 16 2023 11:45 utc | 316
>What I meant to say (an approximate quote): People go mad in groups, but recover their sanity one at a time.
Silent majority of Ukrainians still in Ukraine already recovering sanity and regretting this war, but they have no power. Fanatics will never become sane: they will have to be killed or imprisoned. Leaders are probably sane, but they can’t say “Oops, we made a big mistake Sorry we led Ukraine into economic ruin and caused so many soldiers to die or be maimed for life.” Ukrainian leaders (and Russian leaders and USA leaders) have no choice but to continue. War is too serious to admit big mistakes about starting war. Admitting such a mistake is asking to be shot, at least in the case of leaders of Ukraine or Russia. Because USA didn’t lose any soldiers or suffer much economically, possible for USA to implicitly admit a mistake. Just stuff Ukraine in the memory hole and forget it ever happened. But that might have to wait until the next USA presidential election in Nov 2024.
Posted by: Revelo | Jun 16 2023 13:33 utc | 323
Anybody with any compassion for Slavic brethren
Dima reports (and provides video) of a UkroReich platoon ordered into the attack. As they entered the FEBA they encountered ground littered with the dead bodies of their comrades in arms. The entire platoon elected to surrender and survive.
Wagner made a fatal mistake when it announced it would take no more prisoners. RF, Putin, Valery Gerasimov, anybody with any compassion for Slavic brethren, should announce a general amnesty for UkroReich troopers who lay down their arms and accept internment in Russia for the duration of the conflict i.e. the surrendered troops will be protected by Russia and will not be exchanged to be recycled back into the conflict by the UkroReich.
I suspect such an offer / announcement will quickly result in the complete collapse of the Potemkin army that constitutes the UAF.
The announcement should include the declaration that any officer who sends men to their certain deaths in this way for the sole purpose of achieving an “improved” Z negotiating position at the coming NATOstan conference, is guilty of murder and will be subject to prosecution at the close of the SMO.
This declaration would extend to the parquet military staffs of the NATOstan nations and to their civilian overlords up to, and including, Bidet, Blinken, Sullivan, Nuland. They are all, the entire rotten stinking cabal, equally complicit in these senseless deaths.
I don’t see how any competent officer can view this unending slaughter and continue to proudly bear arms as a military professional. I suspect there will be an increased number of refusals, resignations, retirements, from within the NATOstan military. Fighting a war is one thing. Being complicit in the death of uniformed civilians for the sake of Z prestige is not war – it is murder.
DIMA SOURCE:
https://youtu.be/i5MX_z1aSQM
The Ukrainians Faced New Challenges Before The Offensive. Military Summary And Analysis 2023.06.16
PS –
S if you read this can you please translate to Russian and distribute.
Thanks
Posted by: Sushi | Jun 16 2023 13:35 utc | 324
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 16 2023 11:33 utc | 313
Re Strack-Z announcing NATO starting from German airports:
I was wondering if it is to lay the ground for an increased activity which is to remain in place after “Air Defender 2023” – which is centred around Germany – finishes in a few days. Perhaps the Poland’s impatient opportunism means an alternative air logistics hub needs to be ramped up.
There does seem to be a new rush: just reading on Intel Slava’s TG channel:
🇺🇦⚡️General mobilization with the mobilization of all vehicles has been announced in the Ivano-Frankivsk region
▪️The military registration and enlistment office issued a decree on the mandatory appearance of all those liable for military service at the city recruitment center within 10 days.
▪️Also announced the mobilization of vehicles and a ban on changing the place of residence without the permission of the military commissar.
▪️All firms, organizations and citizens are instructed to ensure the delivery and transfer of vehicles and equipment on time, in volumes and at the addresses specified in the orders for the supply of equipment during mobilization, the decree published by the media says.
Posted by: Leser | Jun 16 2023 13:42 utc | 325
President Putin’s response on de-nazification [linked above] is devastating …
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 16 2023 13:43 utc | 326
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 16 2023 6:27 utc | 275
“It’s possible that the citation Escobar supplied that none of us could find in the transcript was from that secret session.”
That may well be the case but here’s another little piece of the puzzle. I read the transcript earlier today (Australian time) and also went looking for the Escobar quote, half expecting to find it because quite a few of the phrases rang a bell. My uncertainty stemmed from the more aggressive bits in the Escobar version which didn’t ring a bell.
Anyway, like you and others, I couldn’t find it in the latest version on the Kremlin site.
Posted by: Ingolf Eide | Jun 16 2023 13:43 utc | 327
No.329
The video footage shown of the ukranian nazi collaborators during ww2 was especially effective. I don’t think many people know this part of history.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 16 2023 13:54 utc | 328
” As a reminder, Russia has been storming Marinka since March 2022. Which tells you a lot about Russia’s actual military capabilities.
Posted by: Sour | Jun 16 2023 10:22 utc ”
It tells me that you do not understand the Russsian strategy at all and that this is a very common feature of the trolls.
Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 16 2023 14:00 utc | 329
Ukraine had already lost 186 tanks and 418 armored vehicles during the ‘counteroffensive’ – Putin at St. Petersburg today.
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 14:25 utc | 330
Kiev reports 6 Kinhazls shot down all at once ! (Sic)
Posted by: Exile | Jun 16 2023 14:27 utc | 331
@ Ingolf Eide | Jun 16 2023 13:43 utc | 330
It certainly grabbed his audience – devastating and effective.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 16 2023 14:30 utc | 332
“Leopards are burning, yesterday too. F-16 will burn. there’s no doubt about that” – Putin today at St. Petersburg
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 15:04 utc | 333
By the way, there isn’t an AA system in the world that can shoot down a Kinzhal…
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 15:06 utc | 334
“We can knock off any building in Kiev, but we will not do that for certain reasons.” Putin
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 15:07 utc | 335
“Europe has sharply increased coal generation, although until recently it was going to close it as part of green energy.” – Putin
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 15:09 utc | 336
327 – I guess turning back was out of the question? Explaining the situation to some blocking detachment commander was likely to be worse than captivity?
Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 16 2023 15:10 utc | 337
By the way, there isn’t an AA system in the world that can shoot down a Kinzhal…
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 15:06 utc | 337
The beloved and worlds most democratic president Zelensky repeatedly hits two hole in ones with a single strike.
Arestovich: “During international conferences, (western leaders) nervously ask about the counteroffensive.
I tell them, by (NATO’s) own doctrine, a counteroffensive on prepared defenses can be successful only if it relies on air superiority.”
-> Criticism of the west grows …
“>https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1669656820216999936
Arestovich to NATO: “yes we did prepare the attack according to Nato doctrine (in which air superiority is a component), and look what happened”. Priceless.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 16 2023 15:13 utc | 339
Russia can also knock off any building Vilnius, by the way… 🙂
How many of the NATO birds will have stomach problems just before 11th July… 🙂
Will Biden come to there? Has the US asked for security assurance from … Moscow?
Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2023 15:18 utc | 340
Waldorf @340: “Explaining the situation to some blocking detachment commander was likely to be worse than captivity?”
Absolutely! Particularly when captivity means hot meals, a clean bunk, regular showers, and nobody shooting at you. That anyone chooses to remain disposable cannon fodder for Nazis when the alternative is better in every way is a testament to the power of brainwashing.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 16 2023 15:27 utc | 341
Ingolf Eide | Jun 16 2023 13:43 utc | 330–
Thanks for your additional investigation. The reason it “rang a bell” is because the text is all there but not in the manner presented. I hope the secret session was recorded by someone and it gets leaked. For my purposes, more than enough was provided by the dialog we were presented with.
Kiev reports 6 Kinhazls shot down all at once ! (Sic)
Posted by: Exile | Jun 16 2023 14:27 utc | 333
Yes, that is quite true! Kiev for once is right!
All Kinzhals were intercepted by their targets.
It is always the case.
Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 16 2023 15:53 utc | 343
Live now Putin addresses Economic forum St. Petersburg.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 16 2023 12:31 utc | 320
Many thanks!
The denazification objective, that means also debanderasation, was illustrated by Putin with archive films of the crimes against humanity committed by the banderists during ww2: Babi Yar, Volyn, and so on.
Who will doubt that this objective will not be fulfilled?
Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 16 2023 16:09 utc | 344
Given Karaganov’s essay, Putin said the following at SPIEF according to Escobar’s Telegram posting:
“Putin: The use of nuclear weapons is certainly theoretically possible. For Russia it is possible if there is a threat to our territorial integrity, independence, and sovereignty of the existence of the Russian state. Nuclear weapons are created to ensure our security in the broadest sense of the word. But we have no such need [to use them], and the very fact of discussing this topic already lowers the threshold for the use of weapons. And the second part is that we have more such weapons than the NATO countries, and they know it. And all the time they keep telling us to start negotiations on reductions. They don’t give a shit! As they say in our country.”
Pepe then writes:
“Note: Dead hand. How many Americans know what this is?”
I should note that just above Putin’s words is another posting of importance that’s peppered with links:
🔹The secretary general of the Asian Clearing Union (ACU) Farhad Morsali, said Iran’s 🇮🇷 financial messaging system SEPAM has been accepted by ACU members as an internal financial messaging system. It will take six months for the union’s own messaging system to be ready, and in the meantime, the members should replace SWIFT with SEPAM, for which Iran will charge a fee.
🔹It was recently discovered that all banks of Russia and over 100 banks in 13 other countries have been connected to Irans SEPAM. The Russian 🇷🇺 system for the transfer of financial messages, SPFS, has been linked with Iran’s SEPAM and the messages between the two systems are sent on the basis of the SWIFT standards.
🔹Last month at the ACU summit, the regional banking bloc seeks easier clearing of payments between its member states, & have agreed to launch a system that will rival the SWIFT international payment network. The main objective of the ACU are to facilitate payments among member countries for eligible transactions.
🔹Currently, the members of ACU are the central banks of Iran 🇮🇷, India 🇮🇳, Bangladesh 🇧🇩, Bhutan 🇧🇹, Maldives 🇲🇻, Nepal 🇳🇵, Pakistan 🇵🇰, Sri Lanka 🇱🇰, and Myanmar🇲🇲. Four other observer members are Russia 🇷🇺, Belarus 🇧🇾, Afghanistan 🇦🇫 and representatives of the Islamic Development Bank.
Needless to say, that’s a very big development and moment in the drive to Dedollarize.
“I think he’s dumbstruck. He’s spent a career forging deals where mutual interests are found, compromises are accommodated. Even between parties who loathe each other.”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 16 2023 4:08 utc | 253
Exactly so. Lavrov also. After the Ukraine problem has been settled they’ll probably return to that mode with the US. Patiently attempting to defuse. There’s a lot to defuse there and certainly worth trying.
I’m not sure the Russians will be so pragmatic with Europe. Not with the EU, not with the UK. After what they’ve seen coming out of Europe at them I suspect all they’ll want to do is lock the door and throw away the key. “Not agreement capable” has always been written on our foreheads when we dealt with Russia, even before the Association Agreement episode. Not agreement capable and as virulently hostile as now is another matter entirely.
I’m not sure of that because it’s difficult to assess the mood of the European electorates. It’d be a different matter if it were just the European politicians. But it could be more than that. It could be the bulk of the electorates also.
I find in all I meet in England a deep suspicion of Russia often amounting to straight hostility. Not just a hangover from the Cold War because it’s there in the young too.
In Germany, though with a circle of acquaintances mostly “Left” or “Green”, and only a few from the old DDR, I find the same attitude but more pronounced. Maybe it’s an atypical sample though it’s not a small one.
If that degree of straight prejudice were directed at other than Russians it’d be disapproved of, especially in “Leftist” circle. But it’s permissible in the case of our attitude to Russians.
That’s not so important in the case of my own country, but Germany has been for some time the most powerful country in Europe and the paymaster of a good deal of it. The attitudes of the electorates in Germany and in its prosperous Northern European satellites do therefore matter.
So since those guns increased their rate of fire across the LoC the main unanswered question has not been how it will end. That has always been obvious. Nor how many people will die. That was always going to have the answer “many”, and “very many” for our proxies. The main unanswered question, at least for me, is what the end state will look like for Europe. Especially since we’ve been busy ourselves locking the door, and on many more countries than Russia.
The war hysteria one has seen so much of might be just that. Or proxy war hysteria, it could be more accurately termed. If it was a temporary bout of proxy war hysteria then, after it’s died down, European relations with Russia can return to something of their old normality. Not a satisfactory relationship but not as inflamed as now. Putin and Lavrov, or their future equivalents if we’re lucky, will then get down to that “forging deals where mutual interests are found, compromises are accommodated. Even between parties who loathe each other.”
If it’s not just temporary hysteria, if it’s something far deeper rooted in the prejudices of the Northern European peoples, then that door will remain firmly locked. We shall be in for Cold War Two. Given that Europe was in no viable state even before those guns increased their rate of fire, by no means as comfortable a Cold War as the first.
Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 16 2023 16:40 utc | 346
” …the prejudices of the Northern European peoples,….”
English Outsider | Jun 16 2023 16:40 utc | 348
It’s fear of something bad coming from the East. It goes back to the Mongol invasion. No point in telling people that the Russians had problems with Mongols too.
Posted by: dh | Jun 16 2023 17:03 utc | 347
Richard Steven Hack #237:
This is what Martyanov was referring to, apparently…
In related news, Vladimir Putin met in Kremlin the so called “voenkors” and totally humiliated them.
What laughable attempt at propaganda! Funny how Richard is proudly quoting Martyanov without realizing how bad this quote makes Martyanov look. You guys do realize that the transcript of the meeting is available on the internet, right? That everyone can read it and see through your lies? So let’s do that and see how Putin “humiliated” the war correspondents.
[War correspondent Yevgeniy Poddubnyy asks a question about the goals of the SMO.]
Putin: […] All of you here are very seasoned professionals, especially people like you who have been under fire for more than a year. Your mentality changes. I know this from my own experience even though I haven’t crawled under flying bullets like you have, I have known this since the time I flew in a helicopter with tracer fire around us. […]
Apparently, calling people “very seasoned professionals” is humiliating them.
Recall how a month ago Martyanov attacked Poddubnyy for warning about Ukrainian troops moving in the direction of Belgorod. We all know what happened next.
By the way, in that post clueless Martyanov “explained” to his audience that Aleksandr Rodzhers’ anti-correspondent slur “voyenkura” derives from “kurwa” (Polish for “whore”), implying Poddubnyy was a whore. In reality, “voyenkura” is a portmanteau of “voyenkor” (“war correspondent”) and “kura” (rural word for “hen”; in Russian culture, hen symbolizes stupidity).
War correspondent Aleksandr Kots: […] having started to liberate Donbass, why are we now forced to evacuate our population from the border areas, which are already being entered by Polish mercenaries, and the Polish language is heard on our territory?
Putin: Polish mercenaries are indeed fighting there – you are absolutely right, I agree with you – and they are suffering more loss. […]
Apparently, telling people they are “absolutely right” is humiliating them.
Putin: Of course, there is nothing good in this: in fact, it was possible to assume that the enemy would behave this way and, probably, to prepare better. I agree.
Putin agrees with war correspondents that the military could have prepared better in Belgorod oblast. What a humiliation of war correspodents!
[Poddubnyy asks another question on Ukrainian terrorism.]
Putin: […] We need to work more carefully on some issues. On this, I agree with you.
What a humiliation! Putin completely humiliated Poddubnyy here!
[War correspondent Maksim Dolgov asks a question about assistance to Belgorod residents who lost property.]
Putin: […] Thank you for bringing this to our attention. […]
Total humiliation!
War correspondent Andrey Rudenko: […] Today, the medical sector of Donbass is under a lot of pressure. Hospitals are accepting not only civilians, but also military personnel. But at the same time, there is a huge shortage of both personnel and medical equipment; there are not enough MRI or CT machines. Today, appointments for these diagnostic procedures can only be made four months in advance, that is, if a person needs this scan today, they have to wait four months. Can this be solved in these territories?
…
Putin: […] Of course, I know that you are definitely right when you point this out. […]
Rudenko: Mr President, hospitals have become targets for Ukraine’s armed forces, the strikes don’t stop. Doctors constantly risk their lives. It would be good to grant them the status of SMO participants as well as other categories of people who are working towards this, I mean towards victory.
Putin: […] But you are certainly right that this aspect of risk must be taken into account in terms of salary. We will think about this by all means.
Another stunning humiliation of a war correspondent.
[War correspondent Aleksandr Sladkov says he has four questions. Putin jokes about Sladkov abusing his position as the moderator of the meeting to ask so many questions. Jokes that Sladkov must have been infected with such arrogance by being too close to the Ukraine on the frontlines. It’s a joke. Sladkov proceeds with asking his questions.]
Putin: These are indeed very serious questions, therefore we must talk about them, of course. […]
…
Putin: […] What is the point? The point is that – you are right, you are absolutely right – we must have targeted recruitment. […]
Extreme humiliation of Sladkov by answering all four of his questions and telling him that he is “absolutely right” on the issue of targeted recruitment.
[War correspondent Semyon Pegov asks about the present system in the MoD where ass-kissers are being promoted instead of good officers, and informs the president that the promised bonuses for destroying enemy vehicles are not being paid.]
Putin: […] It is a very important question. […] the special military operation was initiated and they quickly began to realise that carpet knights, and there are more than enough of them in any army in the world under peacetime conditions everywhere, are ineffective, to put it mildly.
On the other hand, and you are absolutely right here, Mr Pegov, there started appearing people who seemed to be in the shadows – they were not visible and not heard, but it turned out that they were very effective and in great demand. […] I will tell you why: because we are of the same mind on this issue. I fully share this position, completely and utterly. Such people should be sought out – sought out and helped to rise to the top, trained, promoted and trusted more. […] The fact that they do not pay – this is surprising to me.
Pegov: Unfortunately, this is an absolute fact […]
Putin: […] So I will certainly check it.
Pegov: Thank you, Mr President.
Putin: Thank you for pointing it out.
Putin is humiliating another war correspondent here by telling him he is “absolutely right,” that they, Putin and Pegov, are “of the same mind on this issue,” and that Putin “fully shares” Pegov’s position—“completely and utterly.” Also thanks Pegov for informing him about the promised payments not being made.
I think I’m gonna stop here.
I hope by now it’s clear to everyone that Martyanov lied when he claimed to his audience that Putin “totally humiliated” the war correspondents. The man is a fucking liar and has no shame.
Posted by: S | Jun 16 2023 18:21 utc | 348
@ English Outsider, §348:
Interesting thesis.
It is of note that the blond/blue-eyed Scandinavian folk seem, throughout history, to have been uniquely aggressive. I suppose it had Darwinian advantages until all the rest of the world woke up to the danger.
The Angles beat up the British to form England. The Franks beat up Gaul to form France (and Normandy and Burgundy). The Goths & Vandals beat up Spain to form Catalonia and Andalusia. The Saxons beat up Germany to form . . . well, they kept the Roman name. The Goths also went east, as the Rus, to form Russia.
Each of these Scandinavian descendants went on to launch aggression across the world: Spain upon Mexico and South America, England upon North America and Australia, Russia across northern Eurasia, France into Africa, etc., etc., while Germany concentrated on mopping up the rest of Europe.
I think the Russians learnt from their natives, the Finns, Tatars, etc., and I thought the English had from the British, but no.
However, contact with the rest of the world, such as China & Japan, India & Vietnam, Arabia & Persia, Egypt & Ethiopia and the resurgence of native Mexico & Peru may teach the West´s “leader”, America, to abandon this innate aggression as a modus operandi. If the West doesn´t learn the lesson, they´ll be taught the hard way.
Posted by: John Marks | Jun 16 2023 19:28 utc | 349
Posted by: S | Jun 16 2023 18:21 utc | 350
Excellent and very detailed post. The day Martyanov badmouthed Poddubny he was finished for me, not that I was a fan of his before but that was de final nail. How can you criticize with your whisky on the rocks and cigar logo guys that are putting their ass in the frontline, that was it for me.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 16 2023 19:58 utc | 350
1. War, even though soldiers fight on the physical battlefield, is a mental problem for conflict strategists.
2. Strategists must analyze the nature and cause of the conflict in order to implement possible actions to ensure victory.
3. Victory is defined according to the ends proposed in advance. If the objectives are not met, all that remains is to back down and accept the harsh reality.
4. The objectives of the RF for this SMO have been established and are immovable: denazification and demilitarization.
5. The strategic objectives are unknown, although we speculate.
6. The strategic objective is for the RF to obtain guarantees “written in stone”, which give it legal and trustworthy security in its existential relationship with other States.
7. The history of the USSR and the RF is the experience of defending their own identity against the conquest of the territory and the extermination of the population.
8. The strategic objective is the existence of Russia in a World that, due to its problems, is, every 50 years, trying to compensate for its defects.
9. This has to stop. Not only for Russia. For the world. We have been under a spell for 200 years. Believing ourselves superior to other humans is our inferiority complex: we have not done anything good for our brothers; that’s why we mistreat them.
10. Putin is undoubtedly a well-tempered human being. Whenever he speaks, he doesn’t try to hurt others. He always opens a door to conciliation and reason.
11. He is not to be idolized, but if you read what he says, he seeks the resolution of the fundamental conflict of world sociology: let me live and I will do the same. May each stick hold its candle.
12. And when we get along, we’ll talk. I will always listen to you, my brother.
We are humans.
.
Posted by: Usina | Jun 16 2023 20:08 utc | 351
Jun 16 2023 19:28 utc | 351
Aggression was hardly a blond/blue-eyed Scandinavian monopoly. What about Macedonians, Romans, Moghuls, Arabs, Zulus, Incas, Aztecs etc.?
Posted by: dh | Jun 16 2023 20:25 utc | 352
Homo sapiens are we are: liars, emotional, hate vs love.
Gods…, wait, duds.
Posted by: Usina | Jun 16 2023 20:52 utc | 353
Karlof1 / English Outsider / Sushi / all
In Putin’s meeting with the war correspondents his collegial touch was even more striking than usual. I highlighted many of them in light blue in a Word doc, thinking others might also find it interesting, perhaps even illuminating. Some more general points of interest are highlighted in yellow.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t40td6wnqnvmbbeyrjbou/Meeting-with-war-correspondents-June-2023-with-highligts.docx?dl=0&rlkey=5y6t08xqzurqzw4w92acypbuv
Criticisms of Russia’s infowar “failures” have been widespread over the years. Not particularly here, just generally amongst people otherwise friendly to Russia. I’ve always thought (hoped?) that their somewhat old-fashioned, low-key, courteous and largely fact-based approach would win in the end. Are we finally getting into the foothills of that exponential phase?
Posted by: Ingolf Eide | Jun 17 2023 3:45 utc | 354
Karlof1:
I think his suggestion incensed and provoked me, and regardless I can ramble (and/or rant) at the best of times anyway 🙂
I’ve also read nearly all the comments now and it helped seeing others reacting against it.
· · · · ·
WhirlX:
I don’t know where he holidays (maybe he travels to the Adriatic) but there’s no Adriatic in Hungary. However lake Balaton is lovely and Hungary also has some very nice old/ancient and large Roman public baths, at least in Budapest*. I’m guessing they’re all still there 😀
* at least back in 86 when the Communists were in power they were public baths, I would hope and expect that they still are. Same year as Chernobyl (in Ukraine) and also Hungary’s first Formula 1 race. I had nothing to do with either 😀
· · · · ·
Richard Steven Hack:
Thanks for the transcript of Putin talking about Ukraine.
· · · · ·
Quo Vadis with the bear joke:
Thanks! Funny 🙂
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 17 2023 4:40 utc | 355
Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 16 2023 16:40 utc | 348
«I’m not sure of that because it’s difficult to assess the mood of the European electorates. It’d be a different matter if it were just the European politicians. But it could be more than that. It could be the bulk of the electorates also. I find in all I meet in England a deep suspicion of Russia often amounting to straight hostility. Not just a hangover from the Cold War because it’s there in the young too.»
This old song is still sometimes taught in history classes in England, from a previous dispute over Crimea:
“The dogs of war are loose, and the ragged Russian Bear,
Full bent on blood and robbery, has crawl’d out of his lair;
It seems a thrashing now and then, will never help to tame
That brute, and so he’s out upon the “same old game.”
The Lion did his best to find him some excuse
To crawl back to his den again, all efforts were no use;
He hunger’d for his victim, he’s pleased when blood is shed,
But let us hope his crimes may all recoil on his own head.
REFRAIN:
We don’t want to fight but by jingo if we do,
We’ve got the ships, we’ve got the men, and got the money too!
We’ve fought the Bear before and while we’re Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.”
Posted by: Blissex | Jun 17 2023 18:05 utc | 356