Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 15, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-141

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

As is my solemn civic duty, I’m afraid I have to report a rock solid case of propaganda …

Russia trains dolphins to defend its fleet from Ukraine attacks – The Telegraph
“Following a string of counter-offensive raids on Crimean ports, Moscow has doubled the number of its marine mammals in Sevastopol
Russia has doubled the number of specially trained dolphins deployed to defend its Black Sea Fleet from Ukrainian attacks…” according to the British media
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/69335

If that was a genuine image the dolphin would have a shovel …

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jun 15 2023 12:43 utc | 1

So as it happened, Moscow has announced a first set of elections of local representatives in four Oblasts.
Naturally, German quality media copypasted the same news: <>
Hardly a shocking development and pretty much what was to be expected, the preemptive usage of quotation marks and such.
What made me chuckle is the implication of it. As always with western chauvinism, this is first and foremost projection.
As things stand, we can expect the biggest amount of quotationmarks in history for whatever upcoming ”””’elections”””’ held in the near future in NATOstani fiefdoms.
I wish the people in those Oblasts that they will return to some form of selfdetermination and a peaceul existence.

Posted by: kspr | Jun 15 2023 12:56 utc | 2

Messed up formatting it seems.
What everyone here in Krautland is pasting is:
“Moscow announced ‘elections'”

Posted by: kspr | Jun 15 2023 12:58 utc | 3

An article from two days ago by professor Sergey Karaganov, honorary chairman of Russia’s Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, and academic supervisor at the School of International Economics and Foreign Affairs Higher School of Economics (HSE) in Moscow:
https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/tyazhkoe-no-neobhodimoe-reshenie/
Translated from Russian by RT: https://www.rt.com/russia/578042-russia-nuclear-weapons/
His (wild) opinion seems to be that for Russia to win comprehensively in Ukraine there will be a need to make the West back off, which won’t happen by only winning on the battlefield with conventional weapons. Using nuclear weapons (what he calls “the weapon of God”) would be the only way to scare Washington for good.
Scary stuff.

Posted by: Lemming | Jun 15 2023 12:59 utc | 4

Good Morning from the Empire of Lies and Chaos where I wake each morning, grab my coffee and watch the decline and fall of the western world in real time. I’m a big history buff, have a degree in history, but lately have a very hard time sinking my teeth into anything now other than the history happening right before my eyes.
I used to read about the lead up to World War One and wonder how leaders on every side could be so ignorant and arrogant, so incompetent and did not comprehend the danger and subsequent consequences of their actions. Now I understand. I used to wonder how a democratic and well educated society as Weimar Germany could fall under the spell of the Nazi party, and allow themselves to be sleep walked to their doom. Now I understand.
When I was twelve my brother lent me his copy of Animal Farm than a couple years later, 1984. I was too young to fully comprehend them at the time, although I was smart enough to know that both contained some essential truths about humans, their societies and the potential for mass control, surveillance and propaganda. Now, I totally understand. I see it every day…everywhere. Back then, it was an adventure of the mind. Now it is not an adventure, it is a nightmare.
Ukraine was a bridge too far for the Neo-Cons and the Globalists. A mistake of epic, of historic proportions. Never underestimate the destructive potential of hubris and arrogance. If you repeat lies enough times in order to brainwash the masses, you will ultimately also brainwash yourself to believe those same lies in a self orchestrated doom loop.
We enter the danger zone. Those in power will do anything to maintain that power and as that power slips through their fingers, lost in their own self created illusion and delusion, sure of their own divine right to rule the world, with unlimited hubris and arrogance, they step by step lead the entire world toward a conflagration the likes of which hasn’t been seen…perhaps ever in human history.
Unless something drastic changes our current course, we head full steam into the perfect storm.

Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jun 15 2023 13:01 utc | 5

There is no Russian Defence Ministry report on the SMO from yesterday or as of now for today on the Russian MOD website.
Can we interpret anything out of that?
No Ukrainians died perhaps?
Posted by: Michael Droy | Jun 15 2023 12:49 utc | 2

I don’t think we can deduce anything from that to be honest. It might seem quiet as it does sometimes, but it never stops …

The situation in the zone of responsibility of the group [V]: Russian troops are conducting counter-offensive operations – reported by @voin_dv

“In general, the intensity of hostilities has decreased, as has the activity of the enemy, but the fighting continues.
On the Vremevsky sector, the enemy’s advance was stopped and our units launched a counterattack, intending to push the AFU back to their original positions. It is reported that as a result of the fighting in this area, the enemy lost two more armored personnel carriers, one infantry fighting vehicle and four armored vehicles.
There were no active hostilities in the Ugledar direction, as a result of the work of our artillery, the enemy lost several armored vehicles.
In the Orekhovo sector, the enemy tried to attack our positions twice in the area of ​​the settlement, both times unsuccessfully. Lost about 10 people, a truck and two pickups. The artillery of the 58th army is working closely – they report the destruction of two enemy self-propelled guns.
Our aviation continues to work on the equipement of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Bombers destroyed several armored vehicles, helicopters hit 2 armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and 7 armored fighting vehicles. The AFU is hiding the tanks.”

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/69324

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jun 15 2023 13:04 utc | 6

Our OP source said that the Office of the President wants to launch an information campaign that should shift the focus from the pause in the counteroffensive on the southern front.
TsIPSO will disperse the narrative that this is not a counteroffensive, but a leveling of the front before the start of the battle of the Sea of ​​Azov.
Ukraine has already incurred great reputational costs and now it is necessary to correct the international background in order not to completely discredit the ability of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to return our territories.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18316

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:07 utc | 7

The counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which was expected as a battle for Melitopol or Mariupol, came down to a battle for the small village of Makarovka, which we have been trying to hold for the last five days.
Questions are already arising in the West, where are the promises of a breakthrough to the Sea of ​​Azov?
Another week of such battles and the counteroffensive can be buried as a symbol of all Western assistance.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18320

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:09 utc | 8

Our source from the Office of the President again gave the exact #Insider, the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not launch a counteroffensive, but carry out an offensive! Everything is very simple, we have been fighting for the 5th day for the small village of Makarovka, and we are not moving forward.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine have not yet launched a counteroffensive, but are conducting offensive operations in order to identify weaknesses in the defense of the Russian Federation, Mikhail Podolyak, adviser to the head of the Presidential Office, said on the air of the telethon.
“We haven’t launched a counter-offensive as such yet, and Russia is saying, ‘We’ve already won, we’ve already repelled the counter-offensive,'” Podolyak said.
He named three targets for current strikes.
“The first is to destroy as many mobilized as possible, frankly, in order to add psychological pressure on the Russian army.
The second is to destroy as much Russian equipment as possible, completely destroy it so that they do not use it. That is what our Armed Forces are doing today: they destroy, destroy and destroy again. At the same time, they are gradually moving forward within the framework of the testing mode, that is, they are looking at where it will be weakest.
The third component is not a specific direction. Today, Ukraine demonstrates what modern war is – it attacks in many directions at once. That is, today we are demonstrating that in the minority it is even possible to go in many directions. This is a unique story. Therefore, testing that allows you to move forward, create panic,” says the speaker of the OP.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18321

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:10 utc | 9

Our OP source told us that the UK has urged the Office of the President not to use the Challenger for the first phase of the counteroffensive.
After the loss of several Leopardovs by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which ended up in the hands of the Russian army, MI6 considers it not rational to use British tanks in storming the defense lines on the southern front.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18322

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 10

Media in Belgorod oblast reporting Russian troops looting houses and property of local residents. Just to be clear, Belgorod oblast is still part of Russian Federation…
https://www.moscowtimes.ru/2023/06/15/zhiteli-belgorodskoi-oblasti-pozhalovalis-na-maroderstvo-rossiiskih-voennih-a46161

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 11

The technologists of the Office of the President figured out how to shift the focus from the failure of the first stage of the counteroffensive, now it is testing the Russian line of defense.
Armed Forces of Ukraine have not yet launched a full-scale counteroffensive, but are conducting “testing”: offensive actions in order to identify weaknesses in the defense of the RF Armed Forces, – Podolyak
Now there is only one thing left for the West to believe in.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18323

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:13 utc | 12

Not only have tariffs been raised for Ukrainians, and prices for food and non-food products continue to rise, the authorities have also taken care to arrange a “fun life” for citizens who have even small debts.
Thus, the Rada is considering bill No. 9363, according to which Ukrainians who are included in the Unified Register of Debtors may be left without money that they kept on deposits. In addition, their rights will be significantly limited. Moreover, if one of the Ukrainians expects that he has a small debt, and therefore he cannot get into the register of debtors, then this is not so. You can even get on the “black list” because of several hundred hryvnias of unpaid debt.
And it doesn’t matter what kind of debt it is: an unpaid loan, alimony, a fine or debts for a communal apartment (By the way, now in Ukraine the situation with the debt to pay for a communal apartment is quite remarkable – courts in such cases are now going through a simplified procedure, even without the knowledge of the debtor For this reason, many debtors have already blocked their card accounts, and they cannot receive either their salary or other money transfers that come to their cards).
It should be noted that if bill No. 9363 is adopted, it will also apply to debtors’ deposits. At the request of the bailiff, banks will be required to seize the deposit (or deposits) of the debtor and transfer the money from the deposit to pay off the debt. The debtor will also not be able to make large purchases. In particular, when buying a car, the buyer will be checked whether he is in the Unified Register of Debtors. If he is listed there, then he will not register a car. Naturally, no financial institution will give a loan to a debtor.
As you can see, the state in wartime is trying with all its might to “knock out” the last money from Ukrainians, simply “scoring” on the actual impoverishment of citizens (7.1 million Ukrainians live below the poverty line, and the poverty level in the country has increased almost 5 times – from 5 .5% to 24.2%), high unemployment, inflation and general economic decline.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18327

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:15 utc | 13

@3
I usually check out TG, Lord of War’s channel translates them, here is today’s:
Part 1:
🇬🇧 Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense:
▪️Tonight, the Russian Aerospace Forces launched a strike with high-precision long-range air-launched weapons at the production sites of attack unmanned aerial vehicles. All assigned objects are hit. The target has been reached.
▪️During the day, the armed forces of Ukraine continued to attempt offensive operations in the South-Donetsk, Zaporozhye and Donetsk directions.
▪️In the area of ​​the Vremevsky ledge, decisive actions of the defending units, air strikes, artillery fire and heavy flamethrower systems of the Vostok group of forces repelled two enemy attacks in the areas of the settlements of Novopol in the Donetsk People’s Republic and Levadne in the Zaporozhye region in a day. Up to 25 Ukrainian servicemen and three tanks were destroyed.
▪️In the areas of the settlements of Novodarovka, Zaporozhye region, Neskuchnoye and Velikaya Novoselka of the Donetsk People’s Republic, accumulations of manpower and equipment of the 128th territorial defense brigade, the 31st mechanized and 1st tank brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were defeated.
▪️In the Zaporizhzhia direction, the missile troops struck at the units of the 47th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of ​​​​the settlement of Lyubytske, Zaporozhye region. An ammunition depot of the 65th Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was destroyed near the settlement of Omelnik, Zaporozhye region. In addition, the activities of the Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group were stopped in the area of ​​​​the settlement of Zagornoye, Zaporozhye region.
▪️The total losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in these areas per day amounted to 155 Ukrainian servicemen, three tanks, two armored combat vehicles, a French-made Cezar self-propelled artillery mount, as well as Msta-B and D-30 howitzers.
▪️In the Donetsk direction, the active actions of the “Southern” group of troops during the day repelled five enemy attacks in the areas of the settlements of Razdolovka, Pervomayskoye, Krasnogorovka and Maryinka of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
▪️In the areas of the settlements of Artyomovo, Zvanovka, Vyemka and Avdiivka of the Donetsk People’s Republic, the units of the 24th, 54th and 110th mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were defeated by missile forces and aviation. During the fighting in this direction, up to 340 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored combat vehicles, four vehicles, as well as a D-30 howitzer were destroyed per day.
▪️In the areas of the settlements of Novomikhailovka, Novgorodskoye and Slavnoe of the Donetsk People’s Republic, ammunition depots of the 24th mechanized, 79th air assault and 47th artillery brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed.
▪️In the Kupyansky direction, operational-tactical and army aviation, artillery of the “Western” group of troops hit the enemy’s manpower and equipment in the areas of the settlements of Masyutovka, Molchanovo, Kislovka and Berestovoye of the Kharkov region.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 13:15 utc | 14

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/15/fmht-j15.html
“When the Ukrainian “counteroffensive” began last week, it was hailed in the American media as a decisive turning point in the US-NATO war against Russia.”
“An Endgame for Ukraine,” proclaimed Bret Stephens in the New York Times, which would produce a “crushing and unmistakable defeat” for Russia. Washington Post columnist Max Boot quoted General David Petraeus as stating that he expects “the Ukrainians to achieve significant breakthroughs and accomplish much more than most analysts are predicting.”
“All of these statements have proven both delusional and self-deluded.”

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 15 2023 13:15 utc | 15

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 12
The Moscow Times is a highly suspect source, several levels below British fishwrap.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2023 13:15 utc | 16

The Ukrainian press also insides that Zelensky really wants to deprive the mayor of Kyiv of his powers and remove him from the post of mayor.
We have been writing about this for a long time, pointing out that Zelensky considers Klitschko too dangerous a figure for his monopoly.
Journalists, citing sources, report that the OP is considering options to legally dismiss the mayor of the capital, but have not yet found legal loopholes that can be used in this case.
According to our data, Zelensky will return to the person of the mayor of Kyiv, Klitschko, after a successful summer offensive by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
If, on the contrary, the offensive is not very “successful”, then the Office of the President wants to conclude a situational peace agreement with Klitschko so that he does not take advantage of the situation and start the Ze-leak process.
A lot for many, depends on the offensive.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15627

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:17 utc | 17

Russian MoD report, Part 2
The second part of the briefing of the Russian Defense Ministry:
▪️ Two Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance groups were destroyed in the areas of the settlements of Sinkovka in the Kharkiv region and Novoselovskoe in the Luhansk People’s Republic. The losses of the enemy in this direction per day amounted to 30 Ukrainian servicemen, two vehicles, as well as the Msta-B howitzer.
▪️In the Krasno-Limansky direction, air strikes, artillery fire of the “Center” group of troops defeated enemy units in the areas of the settlements of Nevskoye, Chervonaya Dibrova of the Luhansk People’s Republic, as well as Serebryansky forestry.
▪️The activities of two Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance groups were stopped in the areas of the settlements of Terny in the Donetsk People’s Republic and Kuzmino in the Luhansk People’s Republic.
▪️During the day, more than 50 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored combat vehicles, Akatsiya and Gvozdika self-propelled artillery mounts, as well as a D-30 howitzer were destroyed.
▪️In the Kherson direction, more than 35 Ukrainian servicemen, 11 vehicles, as well as Msta-B and D-30 howitzers were destroyed as a result of fire damage during the day.
▪️Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile forces and artillery of groups of troops of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation during the day defeated 105 artillery units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 132 districts. The command post of the 128th Mountain Assault Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was hit near the settlement of Kamyshevakh in the Donetsk People’s Republic.
▪️Fighter aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down a Su-27 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force near the village of Krasnoarmeysk in the Donetsk People’s Republic.
▪️A Ukrainian Su-27 fighter jet was shot down near the city of Kramatorsk in the Donetsk People’s Republic. During the day, five rockets of the HIMARS and Uragan multiple launch rocket systems were intercepted.
▪️In addition, 25 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were destroyed in the areas of the settlements of Shipilovka of the Luhansk People’s Republic, Yelenovka, Spornoye, Zeleny Gai of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Removka, Novoye of the Zaporozhye region and Proletarka of the Kherson region.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 13:17 utc | 18

Our source reports that after the offensive, Ukraine will face the fact that there will be a shortage of artillery installations.
Every day at the front, at least one installation fails. This will be a big problem that will need to be addressed this fall.
Add to this the constant shortage of ammunition, then after the offensive, the Ukrainian troops will be in a very sad situation.
If by this moment there is no great progress at the front, then the situation generally threatens to collapse the country’s defense.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15630

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:19 utc | 19

Ukraine is reporting fresh gains around orikhiv and ugledar. However ukrimform took time to mention how they got hit with air and artillery strikes but didn’t lose the positions.
I guess it was an expensive victory looks like russia is still trying to trade land for “demilitarization”. The US is providing replacement equipment though. This is a dangerous strategy for russia lose too much land and they may get routed.
Also reported is new russian reserves near bahkmut so they may try a new push out of their.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 15 2023 13:19 utc | 20

Our source reports that we should not expect a further active offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the current Azov direction in the Zaporozhye region. Now the Office of the President has instructed to keep by any means what has already been obtained during the offensive (4 villages).
According to our source at headquarters, it was decided to move on to the second stage of the offensive. Forcing the remnants of the Dnieper and the Kakhovka reservoir. To do this, several brigades were removed from the manning zone in Krivoy Rog at night. Sent closer and closer to the coast in “landing” for further instructions and dispersal.
Most likely there will be an attack across the Dnieper (for this, the hydroelectric power station was undermined). This will give the APU a new hot spot, and maybe more than one. It will stretch the attention of the RF Armed Forces. The capture of a foothold on the other side will be interpreted and dispersed in the media as the greatest achievement of the offensive.
At the same time, we do not envy those who will go in the first wave of the offensive. 90% of the personnel of the brigade either die or become disabled after this “wave”.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15633

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:21 utc | 21

@neofeudalfuture
Ukraine tend to lie like a rug. Anyone reputable reporting those “gains”, such as Dima?

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 13:21 utc | 22

Our source explains how the Head of the OP Yermak “buries” Zelensky.
Now there are real difficulties in the offensive operation. In fact, those forces were expended that were supposed to break through the corridor five times deeper, bringing the result not of 3-4 villages (temporary control), but at least 20, plus pushing the front. But it didn’t happen.
At the same time, Yermak disperses the thesis that this is not all, but only the beginning, that it will be further hoo.
Yes, it can happen, what will happen, but all sources are skeptical about this scenario. The only chance to get a result is to send tens of thousands of soldiers into a lightning blitzkrieg, where the losses will be huge (10 times more than now), but the result will be better than now.
But the risk of losing 10% of the army in just one attack is a strategic failure. Yermak will not be allowed to do this by the military, for whom political goals are not particularly important, it is important for them to “win on earth.”
So, Yermak launches the thesis of deferred hope, and when the time comes and there is no result, then there will be zrada and mass criticism of Zelensky will begin, who did not keep his word, and so on.
According to other sources, Yermak wants to buy time so that Ukraine can get at least something else for military and financial needs at the NATO summit. If the West realizes that the “sand castle” has begun to “erode”, that the military case has reached a dead end, then it will immediately cut off / cut off all the supply and financing of Bankova.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15634

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:22 utc | 23

UKRAINE’S CURRENT OFFENSIVE:
It looks like the Ukrainian offensive is a failure. The West recently spent a lot of money on Ukraine to find out that an offensive against an enemy that has vast air superiority does not work so well.
Most on this blog could have figured that out without spending anything. The politicians spent 100’s of billions of dollars to figure it out. But, then too, they are really good at spending other people’s money. And it is easy to have a lot of money when your money (the USD) is the world’s reserve currency, that is for now.
From here, I suspect that Russia will continue to destroy the AFU (Armed Forces of Ukraine) in the Donbas and Zaporizhzhia areas especially where Ukraine advances without air cover support and without the ability to take out much of Russia’s air power.
With the current Ukrainian offensive failing, Zelensky could be taken out by the West. If so, the AFU most likely would proceed with some sensible tactical moves such as retreating to the east bank of the Dnieper River.
This would leave the Russian bear wide open to take the remainder of Donetsk, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia.
POSSIBLE PROGRESSION?: Ukraine offensive fails without question ====> Zelensky is taken out ====> Russia is blamed for taking Zelensky out regardless of who really did it ===> AFU retreats to the West bank of the Dnieper River ===> Russia takes the remainder of Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk.

Posted by: young | Jun 15 2023 13:22 utc | 24

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 12
Turd, stop posting western propaganda outlets.

Posted by: Boo | Jun 15 2023 13:23 utc | 25

Kyiv Mayor Klitschko delivers another public blow to the Office of the President.
Kyiv City Council today adopted an appeal to the president, parliament and government demanding to comply with the Constitutional guarantees of the rights of local self-government, on the need to return the mayor the right to submit candidates for the appointment and dismissal of heads of districts in Kyiv.
This is due to the fact that Klitschko decided to take advantage of the fact that the proteges of the President’s Office are mired in corruption.
We are waiting for the answer of Zelensky and the OP. While Klitschko wins this fight.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15635

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:24 utc | 26

@12 sour to be clear Moscow times isn’t local media, it’s operated from Europe.
It’s been a terrible source of information, I’ve gotten nothing useful from it. A place like ukrinform is pure spin but it spins actual events Moscow times will just make stuff up so you can’t try to read between the lines.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 15 2023 13:25 utc | 27

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:10 utc | 10
Man wartet nicht bis der Feind kommt, MAN GEHT ZU IHM!
Außerdem tötet man den König immer vor seinem Hofstaat
Aber Leider kapierte es der 5D Schachmeister im Kreml nicht

Posted by: Miau | Jun 15 2023 13:32 utc | 28

Ukraine is now between the proverbial rock and hard place. Pull back, claim it was just a probing operation that was never an offensive, hide the losses, and risk losing future weapons/ammo support from the West. Continue the offensive with a small potential upside and huge downside, most likely small territorial gains traded for massive losses which may render the AFU no longer a viable fighting force. Right now Ukraine’s rate of loss of resources is far greater than the rate of resupply. There are no good options, other than the usual application of propaganda to the debacle. I expect they will continue on because they don’t know what else to do.

Posted by: Mike R | Jun 15 2023 13:36 utc | 29

The smart thing for Ukraine to do, now that Ye Olde Crapstaine Counteroffensive has apparently gone in the weeds, is to conserve whatever forces they have left and go back to playing Defense.
Hope for Russia to stay risk-averse, and play for time and more wunderwaffen.
Unfortunately, Ukraine military leaders are not smart.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 13:40 utc | 30

Our source in the OP said that the failure of the first stage of the counter-offensive forced the Office of the President to listen to Zaluzny’s opinion about the F-16.
At Bankovaya, they now want to delay the process until the NATO summit and get fighters / air defense, and only then continue the counteroffensive.
Yermak believes that Biden is highly dependent on Ukraine and will not be able to ignore our demands, which means we will be able to get F-16s and Patriot installations.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/18328

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:46 utc | 31

The F16’s are old and the the Patriots are proven junk, what’s next?

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2023 13:49 utc | 32

Unless something drastic changes our current course, we head full steam into the perfect storm.
Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jun 15 2023 13:01 utc | 6
Exactly! Excellent comment. If people were wondering how the things that happened earlier could have happened, seeing the same processes live on TV may make some understand, but I still do not understand. We talk about arrogance and hubris and even probe the reasons for such phenomena, but real understanding that would lead to “drastic changes” still eludes us.
Most of the political posturing is just a bluff, but at some point when bluffing becomes ineffective one must act in order to reinforce the posture, and that is when things can get out of hand. I do not think we are at that point yet, but we are definitely approaching it very fast.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 15 2023 13:56 utc | 33

This phase of the counter-offensive seems to be ‘throw a lot of people from all available brigades at the front with many smaller attacks’. That’s my reading of the latest Military Summary video.
The explanation could either be:
– desperation, just chuck bodies at the Russkis and cross your fingers and hope a miracle happens
– a cunning plan: swamp the Russians with multiple feints all along the line of contact, to disorient their command and control processes.
The second only makes sense if they have another armoured column in the wings ready to go. Otherwise it’s throwing even more Ukr meat in the grinder.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 15 2023 14:04 utc | 34

Some Americans appreciate Russian humor:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/06/14/the-russians-poke-fun-at-western-sanctions/

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Jun 15 2023 14:05 utc | 35

According to the Government of the Russian Federation, more than half of the country’s citizens who left abroad after the start of the Special Military Operation in Ukraine have returned back to Russia.
Many of them realized that no one was waiting for them abroad, and the ongoing war of the West against Russia would not end quickly.
Others faced militant Russophobia and realized that western propaganda was deceiving them.
The third was tormented by nostalgia.
In general, the rumors about the mass emigration of the “best people of the country” turned out to be greatly exaggerated.

Posted by: repost | Jun 15 2023 14:05 utc | 36

@32 Ghost of zanon
The offensive isn’t over, ukraine still has most of its assault brigades intact. It won’t be over until the ground gets too muddy.
On another note Wagner will be re entering ukraine in August, so there’s a clue to a russian counter counter offensive.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 15 2023 14:06 utc | 37

Has Soros Spent all his billions yet?
It’s a pointed question. We know he made billions, and we know he has been spending them. But his funds are not limitless.
Here’s a theory – the CIA funds Soros, so that some of their initiatives are laundered through his NGOs etc.
Its’ just another front organisation the CIA uses, like many others. (McGregor mentioned one last night on the Judge Nap show).

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 15 2023 14:07 utc | 38

🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦 Fierce battles are going on: The reserves of the Russian army stopped the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the Vremevsky ledge and are counterattacking
The redeployed reserves of the RF Armed Forces have stabilized the front line and continue counterattacks, pushing back the Armed Forces of Ukraine in many directions.
The fresh forces that came up 2 days ago pushed back the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a counterattack, leveling the front line from Urozhaynoyeto Novodonetsk.
In the area of Urozhaynoye, the fighting does not stop, part of this area has been in the gray (disputed) zone for several days. Ours reflect enemy attacks.
The battles for Makarovka go on for 4 days: ours from the dominating heights inflict fire damage, destroying enemy equipment and positions in the lowlands. Incl. Armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being burned by Lancet kamikaze drones and others. The fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are trying to advance to the south, but they are met with dense fire. So, the infantry, with the support of aviation and artillery, repelled attacks by 2 motorized infantry companies of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with 4 tanks and 11 armored vehicles a day ago. 4 tanks and 7 AFVs were destroyed in the battle.
Rivnopol at the tip of the ledge is held by us, repelling attacks, the enemy suffered losses in armored vehicles and l / s.
Levadnoye is still in the gray zone, the APU units have settled in the landings and are trying to move along them to the Priyutnoye, where the tank and the armored vehicle of the APU have been destroyed.
Near Prechistovka, the enemy is also trying to break through: the attacks of 2 company tactical groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were repelled: 5 tanks and 5 armored vehicles were knocked out over the past day.
New reinforcements are approaching the Vremevsky ledge.
In general, after the introduction of reinforcements of the RF Armed Forces, it was possible to stabilize the situation on this hot sector of the front, the enemy has not been able to advance for the third day.
The command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is also pulling up reserves for new waves of offensive.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/50889

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 14:13 utc | 39

reply to 33
Exactly ! Zelensky now gets to delay the offensive yet again ! “We didn’t have air cover” will be the excuse. Vilnius will announce all sorts of aircraft donations to Ukraine ( if not sooner). Zelensky has the leverage because the Neo Cons can’t admit defeat. They Will Support Him – almost literally ‘down to the last Ukrainian”.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 15 2023 14:14 utc | 40

Here’s a theory – the CIA funds Soros, so that some of their initiatives are laundered through his NGOs etc.
Its’ just another front organisation the CIA uses, like many others. (McGregor mentioned one last night on the Judge Nap show).
Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 15 2023 14:07 utc | 40
Yep, totally agree, those big piles of money are weapons. Plus, it keeps the cash out of the hands of the proles. The proles will only misuse it anyway./sarc

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 14:15 utc | 41

scepticalSOB | Jun 15 2023 14:07 utc | 40
You do know that private banks can and do create money on their own volition, and that the vast majority of dollars are levered into existence and tied up in derivatives, right? Wall Street funds whatever is necessary to create the world in which a leisure class permanently and totally dominates a self-reproducing slave class. This is the entire ambition of Western history, from the funerary bureaucracy of pre-dynastic Egypt to the present day.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | Jun 15 2023 14:16 utc | 42

Propaganda and bluster has been the major driving force behind US foreign policy for decades. Late stage empire. Right now they still fund all this (along with their bank accounts) out of government budgets. It is a good racket as Assange pointed out about Afghanistan in 2011. There is no downside for Western politicians in this arrangement. What will end it is the emergence of a multipolar world. The world does appear to be moving towards BRICS. If the US empire can’t get favorable trade terms they won’t be able to extract anymore wealth out of Western society. Well… there won’t be enough left to extract and their populations will be forced to deal with their leaders failures. Nobody will be in the mood to fund their own starvation at that point.

Posted by: Goldhoarder | Jun 15 2023 14:17 utc | 43

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 15 2023 14:06 utc | 39
Of course, nothing is really “over” until we see some dramatic signs of the collapse of the UAF. But remember, Ye Olde Greatest Counteroffensive was pitched by the Ukrainian propaganda whores as the greatest since Normandy, and after 11 days, all it has to show are 4 villages with one of them featuring UAF getting turned into ground chuck, according to Dima.
Russia really ought to be creative here and take some initiative to take advantage of the situation. It seems there is no AD whatsoever left to protect certain areas, so let the FOABs fly, turn NATO gear into smithereens, and hopefully a few sheep-dipped mercs get to fertilize the fields as well.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 14:17 utc | 44

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 13:46 utc | 33
>Yermak believes that Biden is highly dependent on Ukraine…
Ukraine depends on 3 groups of people maintaining the faith. In order of importance:
1) USA, because the instant the money spigot is turned off Ukraine collapses. USA weapons less important than USA money.
2) Ukrainian soldiers. If soldierslose faith, offensives come to halt. Even demoralized soldiers usually have enough pride not to run away from the enemy, but they won’t attack.
3) Europeans (exclusive of Britain). If Europeans lose faith, USA will start to worry about dissolution of NATO. Better to lose Ukraine than lose NATO.
I predict Ukrainian soldiers will be demoralized soon, but USA will not abandon Ukraine until after election in Nov 2024, and Europe can also hold on until then. This implies stalemate starting soon.
Ukraine gives up offensive and takes up defensive position. Ukrainian soldier morale much higher when defending than attacking, so Russia will not dare attack and risk high losses. Putin aware of Nov 2024 deadline in USA, so Russia will focus on controlling Belgorod attacks until then. Europeans leaders will try to pretend Ukraine doesn’t exist. USA leaders will call stalemate a great victory for Ukraine then abruptly pull the plug on Ukraine as soon as new President elected in Nov 2024 or sworn into office in Jan 2025. At that point, Russia takes steps to put a puppet regime in place in Ukraine.

Posted by: Revelo | Jun 15 2023 14:19 utc | 45

Day in and day out attacks can soon leave defenders numb. Unless the attacks are successfully repulsed while incurring few casualties, relative to the vast amount of damage inflicted on the attackers. In that case the defenders get a morale boost, and eventually reap the benefit of having experienced the best live fire combat training available in the world.
Should within a few months the Russian MOD call up more troops to the front, they’ll have a huge reservoir of “salty veterans” to expedite the process of forging them into battle tested units.
The AFU isn’t playing at wanting to destroy the Russian forces, or inept when it comes to one on one efforts at killing, and the Russian units will have earned whatever badges are awarded for this current campaign.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 15 2023 14:23 utc | 46

Ukraine to get F-16s. Please let it be true.
It’s been pure schadenfreude as the Germans and U$ squirm as the Bradley Leopard scrapyard grows.
Please add a squadron of F-16 into the metal recycling project.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 15 2023 14:25 utc | 47

but USA will not abandon Ukraine until after election in Nov 2024,
Posted by: Revelo | Jun 15 2023 14:19 utc | 46

Joseph Borrell gave a curious statement few days ago. He said the war in Ukraine will not end until after US 2024 elections. Well, most likely you could easily make a valid military-economic analysis why it is so. But it is interesting, non the less.
It in all honesty seems that UNTIL USA agrees to create a new European security agreement which grants Russia what they wanted in the first place, it will not end. Since this hurts EUrope by far more than US, I wouldn’t be holding my threat waiting for US to negotiate anything.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 15 2023 14:27 utc | 48

Re: clobber reports
Back in Spring 2022, there were beaucoup reports of NATO units surrendering – even entire battalions surrending. There was even a army group HQ surrender just East of Kiev with 250 staff officers.
Question – clobber reports no longer report surrenders. Yet, we do still see videos of NATO forces surrending.
Why the change in policy ?

Posted by: Exile | Jun 15 2023 14:28 utc | 49

scepticalSOB@35….the Ukraine is not on a counter-offensive, rather they are on a counter-defensive…with one goal. Freeze the LOC regardless of loses…..bit of Brit combat tactic, see; any major war they started in the last two centuries and failed to win.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 15 2023 14:30 utc | 50

The Resident confirmed our old insider that British tanks were not being used in the first offensive wave.
We wrote that the Germans and the Britons did not want their tanks to go first, but only the British were able to push through. The German tanks had already burned out in the first wave, hit by artillery. This caused image damage and all the media spread this news with footage of burning Leopards.
British tanks are most likely being prepared for a broad offensive, where there will be a tank battle, where they want to use shells from “uranium”.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15636

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 14:49 utc | 51

Military expert Boris Rozhin on the situation in the Zaporozhye direction at 17.03 Moscow time on June 15, 2023.
1.
The enemy continued local attacks on the Vremievsky ledge and was active in the area of ​​Orekhov and Gulyaipol, but so far refrains from a massive offensive due to losses and soggy soil after rains.
The main battles continued in the area of ​​​​Urozhaynoye and Makarovka without significant progress. The enemy here actually got stuck in the foreground and could not recoup the losses incurred in manpower and equipment, which forces him now to pretend that this is not yet an offensive.
2.
The transfer of enemy reserves from the Kherson and Nikolaev regions continues. The enemy is transferring forces equivalent to 4 brigades, + driving reinforcements from the central regions of Ukraine from among those forcibly mobilized to make up for the loss of personnel in battered brigades.
The equipment promised by the United States to make up for losses in American infantry fighting vehicles will arrive within 3-4 weeks (although there is the option of transferring from among the cash assets of American troops stationed in Romania and Poland).
3. The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue to implement the concept of strategic defense, seeking to bleed the advancing forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in positional battles extended in time in the foreground and on the first line of defense to be able to subsequently go on the offensive against a weakened enemy. The enemy understands this plan, so he is in no hurry to spend everything at once, realizing that it will be problematic to restore so many brigades after the losses incurred.
In general, the first round was left to the RF Armed Forces. Now the parties are intensively preparing for the second round, which promises to be more intense and bloody.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/50896

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 14:53 utc | 52

A make-or-break time is coming up for NATO heralded by the upcoming summit meeting in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius in mid-July.
CNN:
Biden holding firm on Ukraine joining NATO

At past NATO summits, the allies have produced a joint declaration outlining their shared views. A failure to reach a consensus this year would be hugely consequential and would signal trouble for the unity of the alliance as the war in Ukraine continues.
Some allies, particularly those in Eastern Europe who are located closer to Ukraine and Russia, have advocated for a more concrete path for Kyiv to join the defensive alliance once the war ends.
Other European officials, particularly those in western and southern Europe, have argued an expedited entrance of Ukraine into NATO could be too provocative and that it could amount to an extremely risky gamble for the alliance even if there is an end to the fighting, particularly if Russia still stakes claim over Ukrainian territory. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 15 2023 14:53 utc | 53

The antidote to Moscow Times is RT or Russia Times. One generally negative the other generally positive on Russia. It is a matter of point of view. I don’t routinely read either and I only glance at most of what our controlled media puts out because most of it is too far from reality to be useful.
In war both sides are going to make mistakes. One balance I believe Russia has made about as many makes as Ukraine. The saving grace for Russia is the unwillingness to persist when something isn’t working out. That is, the willingness to economize on equipment and troop losses. Going by the current offensive, Ukraine apparently doesn’t have that feature. They should have already learned that they are taking excessive losses with these probing attacks and shift to something else. The other notable thing about it is that they are actually putting some of their best units into the effort, and of course taking losses in that category. What they should be doing is using their less than the best in the initial probe, and if successful, follow up in a heavy duty way with the best units.
What I suspect is going on in the background is a compelling need for the top Ukrainian military people to produce something that is seen as brilliant. Thus the most likely solutions: the old tried and true but less than brilliant methods don’t get used.

Posted by: Jmaas | Jun 15 2023 14:54 utc | 54

According to RIA Novosti, the head of the Ukrainian military intelligence service, Budanov, was wounded during a Russian strike on his office building on 29 May, a missile “flew” into the office next to Budanov’s, a Russian law enforcer told RIA Novosti citing sources in the Ukrainian intelligence service.
After he was wounded, Budanov was transported by helicopter to a military base in Rzeszow, Poland, and an American evacuation flight was flown there especially for him, which took the head of the Ukrainian intelligence service to Germany.
Data on the flight were found on Flightradar (pictured). Budanov is now in a hospital in Berlin in serious condition.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/50913

Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2023 14:56 utc | 55

The US via NATO got way out over their skis on this one. If they blow it in Ukraine (hint: they are blowing it big time), the very existence of NATO comes into question. All those recent Baltic and E European NATO additions are going to wonder why they are members of NATO if NATO can’t even protect Ukraine. They hoped that sanctions and money, weapons, and endless propaganda would hurt Russia, stoke resentment and foment some sort of regime change in Moscow. None of this happened, and now they are stuck. Oddly enough, I think this has turned into a bigger existential crisis for NATO than for Russia. As a previous poster mentioned, I think their only solution now is to freeze the conflict and quietly draw back and dig in and hope Russia just lays back as well. An unspoken, unofficial ceasefire is the absolute best the Biden regime can hope for.

Posted by: Frank McGar | Jun 15 2023 14:57 utc | 56

@11:
“Moskow Times” is a medium run by western liberals. Its editorial office is in Amsterdam, not in Moskow.
So its name should be “Amsterdam Times”…

Posted by: Matthias | Jun 15 2023 14:58 utc | 57

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 13:17 utc | 19
The search for “Ukrainians” drowning behind enemy lines is complete. ahahahaha
topwar.ru, Russian troops prevented an attempt by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to land saboteurs from four boats near the city of Golaya Pristan

[…]
It should be noted that this is far from the first and, of course, not the last attempt by Ukrainian forces to carry out landing operations on the left bank of the Dnieper River. The Armed Forces of Ukraine regularly carry out similar sorties in the Kherson direction, trying to “probe” the Russian defense, reconnoiter possible positions, and if you’re lucky, then gain a foothold on any bridgehead.
But up to the present time, all such sabotage raids by the enemy are promptly suppressed by the Russian military. For example, a floating craft and 10 militants of Ukrainian troops in the Kherson region were also destroyed yesterday.

[MAP – Kherson : Golaya Pristan]
southfront: K**v’s forces resume attemps to cross Dnieper after Kakhovka Dam was destroyed (inc. local video clips)

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 15 2023 15:06 utc | 58

Ukraine to get F-16s. Please let it be true.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 15 2023 14:25 utc | 48
Perhaps some Lockheed F104 “Erdnagel” fighter aircraft could also be donated?

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 15 2023 15:07 utc | 59

@17 @26
The Moscow Times simply reports based on Russian sources:

“Toilets and houses polluted”: residents of an evacuated village complained to the governor of the Belgorod region about the swinish behaviour of the Russian military. “They live in our houses, lead an ugly way of life. Alcohol and other things are left in the form of rubbish and dirt, the toilets are fouled toilets and houses, personal belongings and property are stolen,” wrote a resident of Novaya Tavolzhanka in the Shebekinsky urban district under today’s post by regional governor Vyacheslav Gladkov. NeMoskva” drew attention to this comment.

According to her, Russian military personnel are infiltrating many homes. “From our garage an ATV was stolen, which is now often seen in Novaya Tavolzhanka districts. In addition, people have complained about the stolen
trailer,” the resident writes. She asks the governor to deal with the problem, “We We don’t want our homes, which have already been damaged by the Ukrainian armed forces, We don’t want our homes, which have already suffered at the hands of the Ukrainian armed forces, to be a haven for the outrages of our defenders.

https://t.me/Govorit_NeMoskva/10574

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 15:12 utc | 60

There is a saying. If you owe the bank a thousand dollars, they own you. If you owe the bank ten million dollars, you own them.
This is the perverse result of to much escalation. Sure, in theory, the US could shut down Ukraine in a week by cutting off weapons and cash but they are in so deep that they can’t. Zelensky can defy the EU and Biden and get away with it. This is similar to pleas by the US for Europe to pay for more of their own defense. The EU just drags its feet because the Neo Cons would never allow the US to just walk away.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 15 2023 15:12 utc | 61

#KennethGregg voulanteer in #Ukraine
Time: 09.00
15.06.2023 the update.
Today I can finally start informing more about what is happening around Bakhmut, especially in the north of the city. My “boys” in the area have been in contact and the information I am giving today has been approved by the military authorities in the respective area.
An active operation is underway around the town of Blahodatne west of Soledar, the aim of which is to drive the tourists towards Soledar as soon as possible. The operation is thus taking place 3 km behind the official front line. We operate with a smaller squad but the led fi is getting exhausted and has major maintenance problems.
The weather has been worse in the Bakhmut area, but the ground has dried up and activities have again intensified around Klischiivka and Berdivka.
The tourists had a “minor” incident in the Kreminna area. They had prepared a traditional Soviet ceremony where they gathered large numbers of people to listen to a pep talk by Akhmat General Delimkhanov wanted to arrive at the place with pomp and circumstance so he came in a convoy of about 20 vehicles. this was noted by our reconnaissance guys in good time and when the general was about to start talking/shouting, our missiles came to visit. There is talk of 100 dead with as many injured. the general’s situation is still unclear but the Chechen chief called in his troops and helicopters from Marinka to evacuate. How anyone can be so stupid as to position their troops to become sitting ducks is beyond me. This is Vuhledar 2.0.
Avdiivka area is the only front line where the tourists try an offensive but in vain. Their troops were worn down more and more which can be seen in the intensity of their attacks.
In the southern sector, the contact line of the tourists grinds down to a slow mak. although it is not visible on Deepstatemap, in reality it happens continuously, remember that Deepstatemap has a delay of up to 72 hours.
South of Novodanylivka, we have taken an area of ​​4 km x 1.5 km back and secured the area. After each securing of reclaimed ground, we advance our troops and regroup. Slowly but surely we are in a position to release everything we have.
At Rivnopil, the noose is being tightened and the tourists are being attacked with our kamakazi drones.
So to the Crimea, where legionella and gastroenteritis cases have started to appear due to deteriorating water quality. The first epidemics of the dust disaster have begun!!!
Today I will also meet my good friend who is on the Lyman front and find out how they are doing on that front line.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 15 2023 15:13 utc | 62

Remember, Neocon lovers, Victoria “Fuck the EU” Nuland and her clan have no reverse gear:
https://jamesburrillangell.substack.com/p/strange-diplomacy-victoria-fck-the

Posted by: Doim | Jun 15 2023 15:24 utc | 63

From BBC world service

“The BBC asked Gen Zaluzhny for an interview. He declined our request.”
For now Valery Zaluzhny’s hero status among Ukrainians is secure, but with so many pinning their hopes on the commander-in-chief the future is likely to be complicated.
Even if the defence of Ukraine ultimately succeeds, Ukraine will face a harsh reality, warns sociologist Oleksiy Antypovych, and Zaluzhny may choose to steer clear of politics.
“It is highly likely that after the war Ukraine will face a severe economic crisis, if not a complete collapse. It will be a completely different ball game.”
Political analyst Mykola Davydiuk believes that if the military chief were to move into politics, he might succeed.
“While Zelensky is a leader who didn’t abandon Ukrainians, Zaluzhny was the one who defended them. It’s an organic narrative for him and there is a demand for it in our society.”

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 15 2023 15:24 utc | 64

Don Bacon | Jun 15 2023 14:53 utc | 54
Thanks Don. The CNN article is surprisingly objective. Vilnius will an important meeting.

Posted by: dh | Jun 15 2023 15:25 utc | 65

@62 this is not how journalism is done. They had to verify the source first, then compare it with multiple sources, else it is a big fat fake news.

Posted by: Doomslayer111 | Jun 15 2023 15:26 utc | 66

I used to wonder how a democratic and well educated society as Weimar Germany could fall under the spell of the Nazi party
Your understanding of the First Berlin Republic (temporarily located in the Nationaltheater in Weimar) because of Spartakist riots in Berlin is superficial.
The Republic was illegitimate – it was proclaimed by Philipp Scheidemann to preclude Karl Liebknecht from calling a Soviet Republic……it was how the SPD shut out the KPD and had to agree the Ebert-Groener Pact 1918 to keep order – with Groener, Ludendorff’s deputy setting up the Freikorps to kill Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg……….
So the wonderful Weimar Republic started off owing its existence to the Army and a fractured political system with angry Monarchists and violent Communists and dissatisfied Socialists…….and the Allies that wanted blood for the devastation Germany had wrought on Northern France
Communist Uprisings in Thuringia 1923, Dortmund – Army suppression – Hitler Beer Hall Putsch with Ludendorff as his ally………..French Occupation of Ruhr – Hyperinflation followed by massive Deflation
Wow…..”a democratic and well educated society” – riddled with child prostitution and porn in Berlin, Sex Change Clinics with Hirschfeld supervising operations……
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_für_Sexualwissenschaft
sounds just like that place wedged between Canada and Mexico………..”a democratic and well educated society”

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 15 2023 15:28 utc | 67

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 11
I think, it is dolphins from post one.
Go to hell with your MoscowTimes.

Posted by: Skandi | Jun 15 2023 15:31 utc | 68

So to the Crimea, where legionella and gastroenteritis cases have started to appear due to deteriorating water quality. The first epidemics of the dust disaster have begun!!!
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 15 2023 15:13 utc | 64
I don’t know what a “dust disaster is, but I suppose, #KennethGregg doesn’t know that Ukraine blocked the North Crimea Canal from Kakhovka Reservoir in 2014, and since then Crimea’s water sources are pumped from aquifers and sea for desalination. My understanding is, Gulf state partner provided RF admin consulting service over the period.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 15 2023 15:36 utc | 69

Personally I think Russia has absolutely nothing to fear with a nuclear strike over a Nazi population centre (E.g. Lvov)

Posted by: Night Tripper | Jun 15 2023 15:40 utc | 70

As always, anyone who can find Yuri’s 5 minutes briefings subtitled in English – would be deeply appreciated. No one better, imho.
No one should ever post anything from Moscow Times. Immediate deletion.
Semi technical finds on the anoxic stew that is forming off Odessa, etc from the burst dam also appreciated. Bellona has sure gone downhill over the years. There will be extinctions of several endangered species over this.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Jun 15 2023 15:41 utc | 71

@Lemming 4
Thanks for posting that.
After I read it I came here looking for commentary and responses to it, as his piece was so radically accurate and devastating. So far, I’ve seen no reaction to it or see it even mentioned here, just summaries of the dead and destroyed for inconsequential territorial scurmishes. What happens in some rural village of a few buildings is irrelevant when it comes to the future of the world and how Russia will react to defend itself since the destabilizing of the ukraine and severance feom the EU.
I suggest everyone give it a read, might be the most eye-opening 2 minutes of your day.
Sergey Karaganov: By using its nuclear weapons, Russia could save humanity from a global catastrophe
I found it to be the only accurate article I’ve came across focusing on reality. nato created a terrorist-filled-failed-state on Russia doorstep. Apparently they’re figuring out the globalist cabal in charge of the west are truly evil, anti-human, and need stopped for the good of humanity. Glad they’re figuring out the global elites are answering to and doing bidding of an evil with a non-human agenda.

Posted by: NJH | Jun 15 2023 15:45 utc | 72

NabrezhnyeIntel (https://t.me/NabrezhnyeIntel/1591):
⚡️🇷🇺7/14 of the Leopard 2A6s, and 17/?? of the Leopard 2A4s. But despite that, not a single Russian tank has been destroyed by any of the Leopards. They are being used as rammers, to fight infantry, not for what they were intended to be used for, and that was to destroy Russian IFVs and Tanks. The Ukrainians are entirely misusing their arsenal of American and German weapons, which is infuriating NATO advisors in Berlin and Washington.
🔻Similar circumstances, where mishaps, failures, have led to the loss of 21 Bradley BMPs, and 11 AMX-10 tanks, which are being used as support cover in the Steppes of Zaporozhye. Once again, a total misuse of such an expensive weapon, and no much how bag on how efficient these systems are, Ukraine is sacrificing the top of the line of what western military technology.
🔻Already, Leopards, Bradleys, AMXs, Bugelpanzers, and other weapons, which have been captured by Russian forces, are already being obsessively studied by researchers in Chelyabinsk, Moscow, Yekatinerburg, Saint Petersburg, and other regional capitals. Models and specifications on these tanks are being monitored, replicated, in order to strengthen the defense of upcoming tanks such as the T90MS and the T-14, T-15, and other IFVs.
👉 If the rate of casualties continue, the AFU will not have enough modernised equipment to fight, as they have already been depleted of T80s, T72s, and even T64s, however, they still have a significant strategic reserve, which they are now using to recover losses.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/50865
—-
🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦 Fierce battles are going on: (https://t.me/RVvoenkor/47259) The reserves of the Russian army stopped the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the Vremevsky ledge and are counterattacking
The redeployed reserves of the RF Armed Forces have stabilized the front line and continue counterattacks, pushing back the Armed Forces of Ukraine in many directions.
The fresh forces that came up 2 days ago pushed back the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a counterattack, leveling the front line from Urozhaynoyeto Novodonetsk.
In the area of Urozhaynoye, the fighting does not stop, part of this area has been in the gray (disputed) zone for several days. Ours reflect enemy attacks.
The battles for Makarovka go on for 4 days: ours from the dominating heights inflict fire damage, destroying enemy equipment and positions in the lowlands. Incl. Armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being burned by Lancet kamikaze drones and others. The fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are trying to advance to the south, but they are met with dense fire. So, the infantry, with the support of aviation and artillery, repelled attacks by 2 motorized infantry companies of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with 4 tanks and 11 armored vehicles a day ago. 4 tanks and 7 AFVs were destroyed in the battle.
Rivnopol at the tip of the ledge is held by us, repelling attacks, the enemy suffered losses in armored vehicles and l / s.
Levadnoye is still in the gray zone, the APU units have settled in the landings and are trying to move along them to the Priyutnoye, where the tank and the armored vehicle of the APU have been destroyed.
Near Prechistovka, the enemy is also trying to break through: the attacks of 2 company tactical groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were repelled: 5 tanks and 5 armored vehicles were knocked out over the past day.
New reinforcements are approaching the Vremevsky ledge.
In general, after the introduction of reinforcements of the RF Armed Forces, it was possible to stabilize the situation on this hot sector of the front, the enemy has not been able to advance for the third day.
The command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is also pulling up reserves for new waves of offensive.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/50889
—-
The enemy is advancing on the Donetsk and Artyomovsk fronts — Ministry of Defense
▪️In the Donetsk direction, the active actions of the “Southern” group of troops repelled 5 attacks in the areas of the settlement. Razdolovka, Pervomayskoye, Krasnogorovka, and Maryinka DPR. During the fighting, the losses of Ukrainian troops amounted to more than 205 militants, 2 armored vehicles, 7 vehicles, and 2 D-20 howitzers.
In yesterday’s report of the Ministry of Defense, it was reported that our troops repelled 2 enemy attacks in the areas of the settlement. Pervomaiskoye and Petrovskoye.
💥In areas of n.p. Artyomovo, Zvanovka, Vyemka, and Avdeevka of the DPR, the 24th, 54th, and 110th mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were defeated by missile and aviation strikes. Up to 340 militants, 2 armored vehicles, 4 vehicles, as well as a D-30 howitzer were destroyed.
💥 In areas of n.p. Novomikhailovka, Novgorodskoye, and Slavnoe DPR destroyed ammunition depots of the 24th mechanized, 79th air assault and 47th artillery brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
In areas of N. p. Seversk Maly and Chasov Yar DPR destroyed ammunition depots of the 45th artillery and 57th motorized infantry brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The most modern stuff was wasted on mad dash frontal assaults, several of the Nato brigades were wrecked and are now being rebuilt with new conscripts. Several more brigades were drawn to Zap front, and one more sent to Svatovo area. They are getting drained out.
About the himars – war is as much about avoiding making mistakes as it is allowing enemy to make more mistakes.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 15 2023 15:45 utc | 73

@ Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 11
i am not going to dump on your here as others have! i noticed you made a very salient comment a few days ago that @ english outsider picked up on and highlighted.. first i am going to quote it again for others to consider..
“As a reminder, days before full scale invasion on Ukraine the Russians “evinced no desire” to invade Ukraine, months before annexation of Crimea they “evinced no desire” to annex Crimea etc etc. So either they’re lying or can’t really make their mind in long term, and in both cases all of their neighbors assume the worst possible scenario and prepare for it.
Posted by: Sour | Jun 14 2023 13:32 utc | 421″
your comment today from the disreputable moscow times reminded me of a section i read from simplicius report from a few days ago.. i quote it for consideration here with what you raise..
“According to the latest information received, the enemy has produced 1,200 sets of Russian-style military uniforms for the Ukrainian Special Operations Forces.
The symbols, stripes, insignia, patterns, as well as the material are completely identical to their Russian counterparts.
These kits are planned to be transferred to the following destinations: Sumy, Kharkiv, Kherson, Zaporozhye.
Among the kits: the uniform of the FSB, Rosgvardiya (there are kits with the insignia of the Akhmat regiment), the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
Also, for the MTR of Ukraine, dry rations were delivered to the Kherson direction, in particular, their own Ukrainian production ,as well as (MRE-14) made in the USA, and IRP-P, IRP-B of Russian production.
At the disposal of the special services of Ukraine there are explosives manufactured in the Russian Federation, in particular: TNT blocks and packages with RDX, cumulative shells. In the Kharkiv direction, there is a concentration of equipment previously captured in the battles with the Russian Federation. Wheeled trucks: “KAMAZ”, “URAL”, as well as a certain number of BTR-80.
The enemy is preparing to conduct sabotage, which will be covered as an act committed by Russian law enforcement agencies. (Boris Rozhin)”

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 15:46 utc | 74

Posted by: NJH | Jun 15 2023 15:45 utc | 74
People who think the Russians are going to need to nuke somebody to get some respect from the west are quite common here. That’s why it gets little notice.
Quite a few of them claim to be pro-Russian too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 15:54 utc | 75

@ Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 15:54 utc | 77
karlof1 raised the subject of the article in the previous thread and both sushi and i agreed it would be good if b would highlight it.. i even mentioned it on the open thread a few minutes ago too.. the article is scary, but i think it deserves a serious conversation..

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 15:58 utc | 76

Posted by: @Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 15:54 utc | 77
People who think the Russians are going to need to nuke somebody to get some respect from the west are quite common here
It’s not about gaining respect – it’s about ending the madness of the Nazi state in the quickest way possible.
The idea that NATO would attempt to respond in kind over Moscow is laughable.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Jun 15 2023 16:09 utc | 77

So Budanov, allegedly, is in Berlin.
Spose he wanted to be close to where his hero breathed his last!
Speaking of Nazis – any update on Prokopenko?
On the bigger SMO front ….
The AFU haven’t yet attempted any ‘large scale’ offensive …. its reserves are there but whether it actually attempts one remains an open question … clearly the plan was, is, to show some ‘real progress’ for Vilnius … wait and see.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 15 2023 16:10 utc | 78

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 15:58 utc | 78
A while back someone posted that a nuke similar to “Fat Boy” dropped on downtown Kiev would lead to fewer overall casualties than continuing the current SMO for another year or two at the rate of attrition of Ukrainians.
It would also take out many western grifters (NGOs, local NATO types) and make the empire finally pay a steep price, not just the slavs.
Someone else, maybe shadowbanned, suggested Lvov instead. That would be even more devastating as the fallout would be closer to Poland.
My guess is that the west would pause but eventually retaliate, and we get the extinction level event we’re looking for.
The crazed lunatics like Nuland who’ve been allowed proximity to President Pudding 4-Brains are all-in and would use the first strike as a cause celebre to avenge the likely tens of thousands of dead civilians.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 16:12 utc | 79

@ Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 16:12 utc | 81
these are all scary scenarios, but i too wonder what it is going to take for the west to back off… i can’t put it more simply..

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 16:15 utc | 80

The idea that NATO would attempt to respond in kind over Moscow is laughable.
Posted by: Night Tripper | Jun 15 2023 16:09 utc | 79
They have come this far, that is plenty stupid already.
The Professor in the article argues that it is a matter of respect, not I. It is a common thing to say here though. Lots of people think it is about respect. I think it is somewhat past that though. Western respect is not what is wanted.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 16:17 utc | 81

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 12
The Moscow Times is a highly suspect source, several levels below British fishwrap.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2023 13:15 utc | 17
Moscow Times now spreading lies from Netherlands …
uh uh !

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 15 2023 16:19 utc | 82

When time flies it’s hard to remember the past;
Trump was impeached (the first time) for trying to pry Biden dirt from Zelensky’s slimy hands. We now know Biden corruption in Ukraine was massive. Clearly there is blackmail going on.
Interesting how the crazies-in-the-basement Neocon interests dovetail with the Biden Crime Family’s desperation to keep the dirt of its crimes buried.
The American Tragedy is Shakespearean, but the results are likely to be Biblical.
cheers!

Posted by: gottlieb | Jun 15 2023 16:20 utc | 83

@ Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 16:17 utc | 83
maybe russians view it as an issue of respect… the power brokers leading the west view it as an issue of power…
—————
for anyone who speaks french, or is receptive reading subtitles – emmanual todd is involved in an interesting discussion from 10 or so days ago…Qu’est-ce que l’Europe aujourd’hui ? Emmanuel Todd face à Alain Minc it basically is about ”what is europe today?”

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 16:24 utc | 84

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and his colleagues must face a military tribunal for shipments of weapons to Ukraine.

Posted by: AI | Jun 15 2023 16:28 utc | 85

Bemildred @ 77
James @ 78
I agree as bad as the possabilty of anyone using nukes is (no one wants it)
At the stage this conflict is in.
Discuussing it would be sane and rational. Helping to deter the reality of it happening.
Also … Mutually Assured Distruction as a theory and deterant patenttly has not worked, given where we are now.
Lastly my clear concise view has allways been that Russia would defiantly NOT go Nucular on mainland Europe becouse of splash back and future trade with neabours.
But now England who is responsible for this whole dam road crash is a different matter and would have logic.
I can say this, becouse I am a resident.
From there on …
It dosent need to be nukes.
Civilian or infrastructure.
Large or small.
To be clear….
I don’t want it.
I hate the thought of it.
I beleave in peace and love for man and woman kind.
But but it needs discussing becouse…. reality is important.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 15 2023 16:31 utc | 86

@ Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 16:12 utc | 81
There have been several suggestions, including London. I can see the logic.

Posted by: latelyicry | Jun 15 2023 16:31 utc | 87

81. I read today in RT a serious article justifying a limited nuclear strike in order to give the West pause and stop a large nuclear war. I unfortunately share your gloomy assessment. While I understand the Russians desire to get the West to stop their escalations, I don’t think it would work. The fact that this piece was published is highly concerning.
I’m starting to wonder if lizard people are real ..that they are the nutters in the basement? While I kid, its only slightly. At least aliens rushing our myopic species into a nuclear war would make sense. The fucking idiots in charge now apparently don’t even have self preservation instincts.
Fuck me.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 15 2023 16:34 utc | 88

According to the Ukrainian Minister of Defense, Kiev’s sponsors reportedly demanded that the regime eliminate as many Russians as possible as a condition for sending weapons. The case shows how the West really does not expect a Ukrainian victory on the battlefield, only seeking to weaken Russia as much as possible.
Kiev’s defense chief Aleksey Reznikov claimed during an interview to Foreign Policy that Western supporters, before establishing a policy of unlimited military aid, demanded from Ukraine that as many Russian citizens as possible be killed. Once the extermination of Russians is guaranteed, Western support will be maintained “as long as it takes”, informed the minister.
He told interviewers that, at first, NATO expected Ukraine to manage the challenge of facing Russian troops alone, without Western military support. However, with the worsening of combat conditions and the imminence of the Ukrainian defeat, the receiving of weapons became inevitable. So, the sponsors imposed a condition on the Ukrainians: before admitting any defeat on the battlefield, they must at least achieve the goal of eliminating a large number of Russian soldiers.
“We asked, ‘can we have stingers?’ We were told, ‘No, dig trenches and kill as many Russians as you can before it’s over.’ People thought our victory was impossible”, he said during the interview.
Reznikov made it clear that now Kiev has “Bradleys, Strykers, Abrams, Leopards, and more” because it is fulfilling the imposed objective of killing the enemies. Also, for this same reason Kiev “will soon be equipped with American-made F-16 fighter jets”.
“>https://southfront.org/west-asked-kiev-to-kill-as-many-russians-as-possible-ukrainian-md/

USA has no other objective in continuing the war other than kill Russians to weaken it. All Ukrainians will be utilized for this purpose, regardless of loss ratios.
In this case, it would be justified to send a neutron bomb down at Lvov pre-empting the war and objectives of the US. But of course RU will not do that.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 15 2023 16:36 utc | 89

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 16:24 utc | 86
I am fond of M. Todd. A guy worth listening to.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 16:37 utc | 90

Posted by: Sour | Jun 15 2023 13:12 utc | 12
Turd, stop posting western propaganda outlets.
Posted by: Boo | Jun 15 2023 13:23 utc | 26
Don’t you know only Russian propaganda is allowed here?

Posted by: Numbnutz | Jun 15 2023 16:43 utc | 91

Posted by: @unimperator | Jun 15 2023 16:36 utc | 92
In this case, it would be justified to send a neutron bomb down at Lvov pre-empting the war and objectives of the US. But of course RU will not do that.
At this stage, maybe Russia wouldn’t. If this counter offensive does nothing but prolong the stalemate and the west continues its direct support to the Nazi state, then we move incrementally closer to Russia revising that opinion, IMO.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Jun 15 2023 16:44 utc | 92

Pagan 35
JustAMaverick 6
Talking of learning about past mistaken from present ones, I have no knowledge of WW1 and WW2 and how they relate to this zionazi shit in hand in Ukraine.
But during the Syrian decade of Decay I came to understand how Western colonialism constantly rewards insignificant players against much more important players like Assad’s regime with assets from others like Saudi cash and then Kurdish Oil.
Western imperialism has no influence in foreign lands until somebody local can be found to betray their country and their people to outsiders for personal profit and fame. In this case India was not colonised by the British, but by their own dear selves.
I can only observe about this current shit from my own childhood that us
1954 crop of baby boomed had an overwhelming consciousness of the ethics of WW2 and the horrors of its zionazism, while the 1956 crop had none. As if 10 years is the limit of collective memory before life moves on. Half a generation.
The losers, the Ukranian Khazar Nazis, started planning re-working of WW1 and WW2 immediately after 1945, concentrating on Israel and Greater Israel until 2007 when they filled their coffers in the banking crash , in preparation for mobilising Ukraine against Russia.
60 years of unchanged bedlinen in Ukraine. Then came strange rumours that were totally laughable at the
time, that kids in Cameron’s playboy generation supported Ukranian Khazar Zionazis. What more could one expect from kids like BoJo Empire2 Zionists?
I never dreamt and maybe neither did Mr Putin, that these children were fantasising of an Empire2 consisting of Ukraine, Russia all the way to the Pacific Ocean, using the Khazar zionazi nutter tribe to crack the nut of Russia in their Great Game dream.
Che sara sara. I suppose without zealotry nobody can build an empire.
Zionazi fanaticism is a as
good a tool for Anglosaxonviking conquest as the zealotry of Roman Catholicism.
I pay tribute to injured Kadyrov for his jihad against Western imperialism. The Cameronites should take note from him and his brave coutrymen, that the lands they have publicly sworn to conquer on rhein way to the Pacific Ocean, are full of brave men and women like them and all of them detest pagan zealot Western / Zionist imperialism.

Posted by: Giyane | Jun 15 2023 16:50 utc | 93

94. Hey genius why don’t you post some examples of the ebil Russian propaganda here?
Go back to your information safe space, the little bubble where noone offers a contrary opinion to the Western media and governments endless and contradictory lies. Or stay, shut up and maybe, just maybe, learn something.
Like NATO generally, the intellectual cowardice of such drive by trolling is notable. You can’t handle the truth, as they say.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 15 2023 16:50 utc | 94

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 15 2023 14:14 utc | 41
Zelensky now gets to delay the offensive yet again ! “We didn’t have air cover” will be the excuse.

Lack of air cover isn’t an excuse for stopping the offensive. It’s the reason Zelensky should never have started it.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 15 2023 16:55 utc | 95

@Posted by: repost | Jun 15 2023 14:05 utc | 37

In general, the rumors about the mass emigration of the “best people of the country” turned out to be greatly exaggerated.

Many of the intellectuals that helped destroy the USSR found the same thing, they took the top 1% of actors, writers, journalists etc. in the West to be representative of the life that all actors, writers, journalists etc. lead in the West unfree capitalism. “The grass is always greener” fallacy. The vast majority did not do well in the 1990s.
The general anti-Russian propaganda may also not be making those that fled their own country feel welcome. The West just keeps on giving to the process of realigning the Russian population with the nation, and away from the lying West. The Russian state was very clever in letting them leave rather than stopping them and creating an angry delusional fifth column within Russia.
@Posted by: unimperator | Jun 15 2023 14:27 utc | 49
Biden and the Security State already had the disaster of the Afghanistan retreat, definitely cant deal with another major defeat in the same administration going into an election. The first year of a new administration is always the best time to deal with any unpleasant stuff.
@Posted by: repost | Jun 15 2023 14:53 utc | 55

Now Budanov is in a hospital in Berlin, he is in serious condition.

The Russians should have been delivering consequences to these assholes much earlier. They need to escalate such actions to get across to the Ukrainian leadership that there is only one way they have a chance of staying alive. No exits to nice houses in Florida as has been the out of so many US-backed traitors in the past. Will send a message to other elites that think that after ruining their own nations for the West they will get a nice retirement in the US.
My summary of the Russian strategic culture and political economic situation Russian strategic culture and political economic situation.
We need to be very careful not to overestimate Russia’s strength, it is still a relatively weak power very dependent upon fossil fuel revenues. It needs to maintain its friends very carefully, which affects its actions in Ukraine. The sanctions may help some import-substitution-industrialization and have certainly reduced the liberal fifth column, but will not fully reverse the effects of the industrial and social disaster of the 1990s. For that, Putin would have to construct a developmental Party-state like China and that just is not going to happen.

Posted by: Roger | Jun 15 2023 17:00 utc | 96

Roger‘s post above is a variant of the (racist) Russia-is-a-primitive-economy-that-only-survives-on-selling-of-fossil-fuels
Totally wrong – Russian economy is a engineering powerhouse with leading technology that has been cash flow positive for many years. Little debt. Prosperous middle class.
Take a look at some photos of Moscow for example.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 15 2023 17:14 utc | 97

Re: Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 15 2023 14:06 utc | 38
There will be no Russian Offensive or Counter-Offensive in August (BRICS Summit in South Africa) or September (G20 Summit in India) – Putin is not going to embarrass either his South African or Indian allies when they’re on the World Stage.
As such – no Russian Offensive/Counter-Offensive of any scope until at least October – 3.5 months away.

Posted by: Julian | Jun 15 2023 17:16 utc | 98

Bemildred | Jun 15 2023 16:17 utc | 83–
When I first skimmed and informed the bar about Karaganov’s essay last night, I made a few comments about the nature of his premises but didn’t do a breakout analysis of the entire essay–it was too late and I needed to address it freshly. I suggested b incorporate it into an article so it could be actively discussed as the primary thread topic instead of an add-on to an open or other topic thread. Previously here, many have expressed a similar opinion that the use of nukes would solve the issue, but those arguments were strongly rebutted. Karaganov’s essay goes against Russia’s doctrine for the use of nuclear weapons, which makes it troubling. In my initial comment, I provided what RT published as his CV, which for those who know has some highly questionable aspects, particularly his position within what’s regarded as Russia’s primary Neoliberal Nest and as an “advisor” to Yeltsin, which IMO means he’s connected to the West in some manner. Many will note that this essay tends to confirm the Western propaganda Narrative that Russia’s going to use nukes because it’s losing. That relates to my assessment of his premises, that they’re assumed at best and false at worst, the last one I deemed false. I’ve read about a half-dozen of his essays over the past several years, most of whom I’ve torn apart for various reasons, and openly wondered why he occupies his position and is accorded what IMO is an unjustified level of respect.
The more hawkish members of Russia’s Security Council, Medvedev for one who’s been unafraid to speak out in the past, have so far remained silent, although his Telegram posting on the 13th offered some other suggestions. I tried to find other media reactions to the essay but have yet to meet with success. TASS does have the following item, “Russia may use nuclear weapons only for defense — Foreign Ministry: Maria Zakharova pointed out that Moscow was fully committed to the principle of the inadmissibility of nuclear war.” It appears she spoke during the Q&A portion of her Briefing today:

Russia’s hypothetical use of nuclear weapons may happen exclusively in extraordinary circumstances and will be possible only for defensive purposes, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told a news briefing on the sidelines of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF) on Thursday.
“Russia’s nuclear deterrence policy is strictly defensive. The hypothetical use of nuclear weapons is clearly limited by extraordinary circumstances within the framework of strictly defensive purposes,” she said.
Zakharova pointed out that Moscow was fully committed to the principle of the inadmissibility of nuclear war.
“There can be no winners in it. It must never be unleashed. We consistently call on all other parties to the joint statement of the leaders of the five nuclear states on the prevention of nuclear war and the inadmissibility of an arms race to adhere to these postulates,” Zakharova stressed

I’m unable to confirm that since the entire transcript of her Weekly Briefing isn’t complete, but based on the above context that appears to be the case.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 15 2023 17:29 utc | 99

99 – True although it shows how ineffective Communist propaganda or ideological explanation was.
For example, many Albanians could pick up Italian TV signals, coming across the Adriatic. In the early 1970s the party leadership expressed some concerns about this, though at that time there were few TV sets in the country – there might perhaps be one in a village hall or community centre. However, Italian TV seems to have been widely enough seen to give many Albanians the impression that Italian life was like in a Volari commercial. After 1991, many went there and found it was not like that. Albanians were lucky if they could find work washing dishes in Italian restaurants.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 15 2023 17:30 utc | 100