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June 8, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-137
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
From Mikael Valtersson, a former officer Swedish Armed Forces/Air Defence, former defence politician and chief of staff Sweden Democrats. Current political and military analyst.
Alleged footage of destroyed Leopards Posted by: A200 | Jun 8 2023 13:16 utc | 2 https://t.me/rybar/48045 (3 AMX10-RC destroyed) Posted by: A200 | Jun 8 2023 13:20 utc | 3 Footage of destruction of IRIS-T’s antenna, drone also films the launcher itself. https://t.me/voenacher/46203 Posted by: A200 | Jun 8 2023 13:22 utc | 4 Two indications in the media this morning of the way that the cookie is crumbling in the USA. Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2023 13:23 utc | 5 Last one, a collection of images, allegedly 42 UA vehicles destroyed from last days. (It has a meme) https://t.me/voenacher/46136 Posted by: A200 | Jun 8 2023 13:25 utc | 6 American politicians work on commission. Former V.P. Pence is doing his best to make an F16 sale. Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jun 8 2023 13:25 utc | 7 The fat lady hasn’t started singing just yet, but you can hear her warming up…. Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jun 8 2023 13:28 utc | 8 Recent 3 minute video of Russian trenches ==> How Russia Is Preparing for Ukraine’s Counteroffensive. Posted by: too scents | Jun 8 2023 13:36 utc | 9 Posted by: b | Jun 8 2023 13:11 utc | 1 Posted by: Odo | Jun 8 2023 13:37 utc | 10 Waiting for Inkanazi1969 to come here and declare Ukranazistan is winning. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 8 2023 13:39 utc | 11 Big Serge on the dam: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 8 2023 13:40 utc | 12 @ Odo, #10 Posted by: Michael Droy | Jun 8 2023 13:48 utc | 13 Indian hosts saying no to the cokehead Z crashing their G20 party seems like a big development. Looks like he may have finally hit his “sell-by” date. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 8 2023 13:50 utc | 14 As for this: Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2023 13:53 utc | 16 Mikael Valtersson propagates a lot of US/NATO talking points. Russia did not underperform in the beginning. They did however do some risky moves particularly as part of their pinning movement to put pressure on the city of Kiev. They went deep behind enemy lines. Posted by: Alaric | Jun 8 2023 13:55 utc | 17
https://t.me/rezident_ua/18179 Posted by: Down South | Jun 8 2023 13:56 utc | 18
https://t.me/rezident_ua/18182 Posted by: Down South | Jun 8 2023 13:59 utc | 19 Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jun 8 2023 13:28 utc | 8
I will be raising a glass of fine whiskey on that day. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 8 2023 14:00 utc | 20
Posted by: Down South | Jun 8 2023 14:00 utc | 21 Bevin no. 5 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 8 2023 14:04 utc | 22 Just finished reading this: Posted by: Revelo | Jun 8 2023 14:10 utc | 23 Gilbert Doctorow has a new piece on his website: Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2023 14:10 utc | 24 What’s left are … Posted by: too scents | Jun 8 2023 14:15 utc | 25 @ ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 8 2023 14:04 utc | 21 Posted by: natokraine | Jun 8 2023 14:19 utc | 26 @bevin 23 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 8 2023 14:21 utc | 27 UKRAINE’S “GREAT” OFFENSIVE: Posted by: young | Jun 8 2023 14:22 utc | 28 Valtersson appears to be making an effort to be an honest broker, and there is something to one barfly’s comment above to the effect that any army at the outset of action will be shaking out the cobwebs. Posted by: Paul Damascene | Jun 8 2023 14:24 utc | 29 Looking at Telegram today it feels like this the really the first time we’ve seen the Russian Army doing what it’s trained to do. Artillery, Electronic Warfare, Air Defence and Helicopters all working together in echeloned defence. Posted by: SB | Jun 8 2023 14:25 utc | 30 Who’s going to conduct this palace coup? Posted by: too scents | Jun 8 2023 14:25 utc | 31 @ Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2023 13:23 utc | 5 Posted by: Natokraine | Jun 8 2023 14:28 utc | 32 RE: US Chamber of Commerce/USAID Posted by: Trubind1 | Jun 8 2023 14:30 utc | 33 Biswapriya Purkayast@26 Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2023 14:34 utc | 34 Posted by: too scents | Jun 8 2023 13:36 utc | 9 Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 8 2023 14:35 utc | 35 I thought the general concensus was that the offensive had to succeed in the first 24-48 hours because the artillery munitions stockpiled would only last that long. From all accounts ukraine has been blasting artillery shells almost non stop for that amount of time. Posted by: Oh | Jun 8 2023 14:36 utc | 36 “What’s left are rich Ukrainians, who buy their way out of conscription, and poor Ukrainians who never had energy to think for themselves.” Posted by: Cerena | Jun 8 2023 14:40 utc | 37 Jun 8 2023 14:36 utc | 35 Posted by: paddy | Jun 8 2023 14:49 utc | 38 Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jun 8 2023 13:28 utc | 8 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 8 2023 14:49 utc | 39 If the videos we are seeing are reality at all — Ukraine is driving columns of armor down sunny open rural lanes completely in the open. With no cover and no air cover. In an environment they know is full of Ka-52, Su-24, Lancets, observation drones. Suicide and pure suicide. Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 8 2023 14:50 utc | 40 As a humble ex-rifleman many moons ago (73-75) I haven’t kept up with weapons as I have no interest in them However, there is something I’d like explained to me, if possible. Posted by: Vragtes | Jun 8 2023 14:51 utc | 41
https://t.me/rezident_ua/18183 Posted by: Down South | Jun 8 2023 15:01 utc | 42 I think the US built up a military in Ukraine that they reckoned they’d not be able to defeat themselves short of using nukes. And they thought they themselves had a better army than the Russians. So that the Russians would lose. Hence Boris and all scuppering the peace talks and all the “as long as it takes” talk. But the truth may be dawning on them now? Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Jun 8 2023 15:01 utc | 43 Posted by: Cerena | Jun 8 2023 14:40 utc | 36 Posted by: Revelo | Jun 8 2023 15:02 utc | 44 Guy L’estrange no. 42 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 8 2023 15:06 utc | 45
Posted by: Down South | Jun 8 2023 15:06 utc | 46 Gehlen was not a Nazi propagandist. He was the head of intelligence for the OSH — the German Army in the east. Gehlen ran signal and human intelligence and air reconnaissance operations and produced intelligence reports to Hitler and the rest of the German leadership. The Red Army grew to be adept at fooling him. Posted by: William Verick | Jun 8 2023 15:08 utc | 47 After perusing the commentary on the ongoing offensive, I was wondering what happens to the dead bodies? Do hostilities cease to collect the wounded/dead or are they just left to rot in the fields? Posted by: clueless | Jun 8 2023 15:10 utc | 48 Down South no. 45 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 8 2023 15:10 utc | 49 ‘If the videos we are seeing are reality at all — Ukraine is driving columns of armor down sunny open rural lanes completely in the open. With no cover and no air cover. In an environment they know is full of Ka-52, Su-24, Lancets, observation drones. Suicide and pure suicide.’ Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 8 2023 15:16 utc | 50 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 8 2023 14:49 utc | 38 Posted by: Golddigger | Jun 8 2023 15:19 utc | 51 The history of the US in recent decades has been one of over-estimating their own staying power/determination and capabilities, and under-estimating the opposition’s determination and capabilities. We have seen this in Afghanistan, the long resistance of Iraqis to US occupation and attempts to impose a neoliberal constitution, the resistance of Syrians aided by Russia, and now Russia’s refusal to be crushed by sanctions or overthrow Putin. There will be and doesn’t need to be a coup against Zelensky, he’s exactly what he was hired to be, a media created figurehead no more than that. If there needs to be a change he will be handed a new script, if the show has bombed so bad the star needs to be replaced he will bow out in some presentable “democratic” way, he’ll lose in concoted elections most likely. At worst, for him at least, he’ll be offed in a way that can be blamed on the Russians and go out a hero with a grand internationally attended funeral. Ukraine is a “model democracy” and any ugly mafia-like exigencies will have to fit to that – just like in the west itself. The ugliness will be behind the scenes. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 8 2023 15:21 utc | 53 Carryover from previous thread. Someone asked about Leopards.……
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 8 2023 15:23 utc | 54 Re: Posted by: Cerena | Jun 8 2023 14:40 utc | 36 Posted by: Trubind1 | Jun 8 2023 15:24 utc | 55 Watched full Tucker video and its pretty genius. He even took a dig at Blackrock linking it to criminal Zelensky. Posted by: Comandante | Jun 8 2023 15:25 utc | 56 Russian artillery. Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 8 2023 15:26 utc | 57 So all the major US media sites are now announcing the long-awaited, delayed Posted by: ChrisFromGA | Jun 8 2023 15:27 utc | 58 More Mikael Valtersson on Twitter Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 8 2023 15:33 utc | 59 So all the major US media sites are now announcing the long-awaited, delayed Posted by: Pierrot | Jun 8 2023 15:36 utc | 60 Posted by: Vragtes | Jun 8 2023 14:51 utc | 40 Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 8 2023 15:37 utc | 61 In continuation of yesterday’s topic about the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and our preparation for this offensive. Posted by: repost | Jun 8 2023 15:38 utc | 62 A new video has been released of a column some sort of combine harvester variants getting smoked… funnily enough they kind of look like Leopards though. Maybe they are developed from tractors, kind of like the Panzer III developed on the basis of Ferdinand Porsche tractors. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 8 2023 15:40 utc | 63 Posted by: repost | Jun 8 2023 15:38 utc | 61 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 8 2023 15:42 utc | 64 Vid of smoking Leopards. NAFO are enjoying the “nah, farm equipment” meme. Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 8 2023 15:42 utc | 65 unimperator | Jun 8 2023 15:40 utc | 62 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 8 2023 15:45 utc | 66 About the “farm tractor” thing: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 8 2023 15:46 utc | 67 @Vragtes 40 Posted by: gpc | Jun 8 2023 15:50 utc | 68 Ukrainians already complaining that Leopard’s are shit tanks, LMAO.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 8 2023 15:54 utc | 69 Comandante no. 55 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 8 2023 15:56 utc | 70 Natokraine no. 25 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 8 2023 15:59 utc | 72 Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 8 2023 15:46 utc | 66 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 8 2023 16:00 utc | 73 Vragtes @ 40 Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 8 2023 16:06 utc | 74 gpc | Jun 8 2023 15:50 utc | 67, oldhippie | Jun 8 2023 16:06 utc | 73 Posted by: Vragtes | Jun 8 2023 16:13 utc | 75 Posted by: Cerena | Jun 8 2023 14:40 utc | 36 Posted by: Paco | Jun 8 2023 16:15 utc | 76 @commandante55 Posted by: The Osprey | Jun 8 2023 16:18 utc | 77 Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 8 2023 16:06 utc | 73 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 8 2023 16:19 utc | 78 Re: defensive fortifications Posted by: Exile | Jun 8 2023 16:21 utc | 79 “@commandante55 Posted by: Comandante | Jun 8 2023 16:22 utc | 80 @14 “now there is tool worthy of RSH’s idiot filter!”, LOL
That was me! (under a different pen name) Posted by: Madame Guillotine | Jun 8 2023 16:24 utc | 81 Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the night attempt of the AFU offensive: Posted by: Summary | Jun 8 2023 16:25 utc | 82 Re: Russian Order of Battle Posted by: Exile | Jun 8 2023 16:29 utc | 83 If Natzo propaganda about “we’re kicking ass over there” was “good” for anything, it probably helped their recruitment and budgeting situations. I can only imagine how many multiples more money their prospective mercs will demand before going anywhere near the theater, if they’re willing at any price. Posted by: natokraine | Jun 8 2023 16:32 utc | 84 @Exile
I think we’re past that stage, 5-6 days in. Local conscripts don’t operate expensive NATO gear, especially Leopard tanks. More likely sheep-dipped NATO mercs. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 8 2023 16:34 utc | 85 Ukrainian forces suffer ‘stiff resistance’ and losses in assault on Russian lines Posted by: Apollyon | Jun 8 2023 16:41 utc | 86 Yesterday I neglected to post any of Zakharova’s Weekly Briefing items, which I’ll now rectify. Just one paragraph from her very long update on Ukraine: I think we’re past that stage, 5-6 days in. Local conscripts don’t operate expensive NATO gear, especially Leopard tanks. More likely sheep-dipped NATO mercs. Posted by: Exile | Jun 8 2023 16:46 utc | 88 Concerning Wunderwaffe weapons . Posted by: FromFrance | Jun 8 2023 16:47 utc | 89 The timing of the Great Offensive. Posted by: BroncoBilly | Jun 8 2023 16:51 utc | 90 NATO cucks are going to need to wash down this bitter defeat with an extra-large cup of Copium-Cola. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 8 2023 16:52 utc | 91 FromFrance | Jun 8 2023 16:47 utc | 90 Posted by: ostro | Jun 8 2023 16:52 utc | 92 @Melaleuca – re. Assange – wrong thread It has become clear that US strategic leadership has been misled as to the quality of the weapons its military is using. Possible that decades of bombing insurgencies with no air defense and no effective way to strike back caused a little myopia to set in. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 8 2023 17:11 utc | 94 Another item from Zakharova’s briefing was this Q&A about the ZNPP:
As I wrote yesterday, Russia awaits any attempt to cross the river and assault the ZNPP, and that is implied within Maria’s answer. IMO, specific Russian counter-strike elements are at the ready to “respond extremely harshly” that Ukraine would like to lure away by putting pressure on the FEBA elsewhere. But as we’ve seen, those attempts haven’t been anywhere nearly enough. Will the Ukies follow their Master’s order to commit suicide by attacking the ZNPP? Time will tell. The counter offensive that wasn’t. Total embarrassment incoming. The big NATO exercise is all posture as well. Posted by: Watzov | Jun 8 2023 17:16 utc | 96 A tank is only as good as its crew, a crew is only as good at its training, their training is only as good as the instruction and the instruction is only as good as the instructors. Thus it was, is, and shall be ever thus. Hear endeth the lesson. Posted by: Milites | Jun 8 2023 17:21 utc | 97 Comandante@56 Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2023 17:24 utc | 98 Posted by: Exile | Jun 8 2023 16:29 utc | 83 Posted by: Verdant | Jun 8 2023 17:34 utc | 99 I think the US built up a military in Ukraine that they reckoned they’d not be able to defeat themselves short of using nukes. And they thought they themselves had a better army than the Russians. So that the Russians would lose. Posted by: Drapetomaniac | Jun 8 2023 17:41 utc | 100 |
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