Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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June 1, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-132
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Twitter reporting the “Ukraine javelin in Mexico” is actually a “AT4” (found on twitter and posted by me last thread, and I see it’s now getting lots of retweets) Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 1 2023 15:42 utc | 1 Fellow Barflies; Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 ❗️This morning, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, jointly with units of the Federal Border Guard Service of Russia and other units of the Russian Federal Security Service, have foiled a new attempt by the Kiev regime to carry out a terrorist attack against the civilian population of Shebekino (Belgorod region). Posted by: rumod report | Jun 1 2023 15:46 utc | 3 So continued escalation? Posted by: jpc | Jun 1 2023 15:47 utc | 4 A while ago I wrote about the F-16s and why it makes little sense for Ukraine to use them as they won’t change things.
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/32259
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/32100
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 1 2023 15:49 utc | 6
The mood in the Kremlin is clearly hardening. See Medvedev’s latest remarks: Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 15:52 utc | 7 @Melaleuca 1 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 1 2023 15:53 utc | 8 1) How long will The Ukrainian Civil War last ? Posted by: jpc | Jun 1 2023 15:53 utc | 9
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 15:54 utc | 10 It’s easy to get the feeling that Zelensky has now been bypassed in military matters (perhaps permanently) – Syrsky reported that offensive operation around Artemovsk has been halted due to depletion. Never before has this been said out aloud. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 1 2023 15:56 utc | 11 @Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 Posted by: FVK | Jun 1 2023 15:56 utc | 12 My answer to Exile’s questions at 15:43 utc: Posted by: malenkov | Jun 1 2023 15:57 utc | 13 Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 15:52 utc | 7 Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 1 2023 16:03 utc | 15 Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2
Until Russia is satisfied its security concerns have been met.
A couple of possible answers: Posted by: West of England Andy | Jun 1 2023 16:07 utc | 16 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 1 2023 15:53 utc | 8 Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 1 2023 16:09 utc | 17 @ b | Jun 1 2023 15:48 utc | 5 Posted by: james | Jun 1 2023 16:11 utc | 18 FVK @ 12 How will NATO ‘enter this conflict’ if the US stays out? Posted by: dh | Jun 1 2023 16:15 utc | 19 @2 Exile, Posted by: paddy | Jun 1 2023 16:15 utc | 20 So the “strategy” of the UAF seems to be morphing from a military perspective, into a terror/suicide ISIS style tactics without a strategy. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 1 2023 16:17 utc | 21 Ordinary Americans in no way should expect to be perpetually held harmless from the horrible, violent actions of the US govt. This has been going on for a very long time. Posted by: chunga | Jun 1 2023 16:17 utc | 22 Ukraine’s only objective in this war as of this point is to consistently string along enough small events to serve as temporary bumps of ostensible activity and provide a psychological/morale boost. It’s cheap tricks, the practiced hand waving of a street magician trying to distract you. They have no real military ability so they subsist on a diet of any sort of bump they can get every few days to string along this conjured illusion that they’re actually still in the war, still scraping and fighting back. Posted by: WoButtZdDeed | Jun 1 2023 16:23 utc | 23 Also needs to be pointed out that the sacrificial NATO meat bombs are Ukrainian soldiers, presumably trained in expensive western military bases. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 1 2023 16:25 utc | 24 @Posted by: dh | Jun 1 2023 16:15 utc | 19 Posted by: FVK | Jun 1 2023 16:26 utc | 25 Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 1 2023 16:27 utc | 26 @5 Posted by: paddy | Jun 1 2023 16:28 utc | 27 Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 1 2023 16:31 utc | 28 Ordinary Americans in no way should expect to be perpetually held harmless from the horrible, violent actions of the US govt. Posted by: Mike | Jun 1 2023 16:32 utc | 29 Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 1 2023 16:33 utc | 30 FVK @ 25 Before Europe gets to the roasting stage NATO will have to officially enter the conflict. They won’t do it without US green light because US is part of NATO. Of course everybody knows US/NATO is already involved unofficially. Posted by: dh | Jun 1 2023 16:33 utc | 31 Paddy 27 Posted by: Mike R | Jun 1 2023 16:37 utc | 32 @ b | Jun 1 2023 15:48 utc | 5 with the RAND F-16 update Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 1 2023 16:41 utc | 33 [8] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 1 2023 16:56 utc | 34 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 1 2023 16:52 utc | 34 Posted by: grabbag | Jun 1 2023 16:57 utc | 35 @Posted by: dh | Jun 1 2023 16:33 utc | 30 Posted by: FVK | Jun 1 2023 16:58 utc | 36
If that is the first step, it is Poland and Romania together. Both have Aegis Ashore sites, plus lots of other dangerous NATO infrastructure. Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:00 utc | 37 FVK @ 37 I’m sure NATO has lots of creative ideas. I just don’t see a formal escalation without US approval. The real discussion is in Washington. Posted by: dh | Jun 1 2023 17:04 utc | 38 NATO PLANES over BOSNIA again Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 1 2023 17:09 utc | 39
Posted by: grabbag | Jun 1 2023 16:57 utc | 36 Posted by: West of England Andy | Jun 1 2023 17:10 utc | 40 @Melaleuca 33: Posted by: Ciaran | Jun 1 2023 17:12 utc | 41 Beautiful:
For the record — I know this has been explained previously, but it needs to be repeated — the PMR seceded from Moldova BEFORE Moldova seceded from the USSR, and nobody ever “invaded” the PMR, it was all an in situ local movement. Gorbachev actually even tried to suppress it and issued a specific decree declaring the secession null and void, and Putin tried hard to push them back into Moldova (the same way he later did with Donetsk and Lugansk) but was unsuccessful. Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:18 utc | 42 @Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:00 utc | 39 Posted by: FVK | Jun 1 2023 17:18 utc | 43
What is needed is Stingers from Ukraine in the hands of the right people waiting for the right moment around the DC area. Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:20 utc | 44 The Russians seem to have seriously increased the production of drones, for the Ukrainians the situation will only get worse. To be honest, it is quite strange that a state with nuclear weapons and with such large resources neglected the development of the drone industry. Posted by: Crazy chump | Jun 1 2023 17:32 utc | 45
Romania sent an obscene number of soldiers to fight on the Eastern Front in WWII. Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:36 utc | 46
You have your answer there. Notice what Russia invested in — doomsday weaponry. Because the assumption was that nuclear deterrence will do its job, and there will be no need for major conventional operations. Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:38 utc | 47 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 1 2023 14:33 utc | 247 Posted by: Milites | Jun 1 2023 17:40 utc | 48 Trollbag: Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 1 2023 17:41 utc | 49 Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:36 utc | 50 Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 1 2023 17:46 utc | 50 james@18….they get shot down, but not before they fire their payload. Many DPR front line reports talk of enemy planes and choppers…..so they are there. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 1 2023 17:54 utc | 51 Posted by: b | Jun 1 2023 15:48 utc | 5 Posted by: Grey Cloud | Jun 1 2023 17:56 utc | 52 Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 17:36 utc | 50 Posted by: JB | Jun 1 2023 18:03 utc | 53 So we have Maia Sandu allowing Ukronazi’s to invade Moldovan territory. Posted by: unimperator | Jun 1 2023 18:05 utc | 54 Do you know what is the remedy for this problem … Posted by: too scents | Jun 1 2023 18:19 utc | 55 Why not? I’ve advocated Toyota use ISIS as a marketing device. Posted by: kupkee | Jun 1 2023 18:26 utc | 56 “…Bulgarian elites have always wanted to be first Germans, and more recently Americans/”Europeans”, regardless of what the majority of the population thinks, so Serbia has been the only somewhat reliable ally in all of Europe. Somewhat, because of course Tito decided to do his own thing during the Cold War, and that caused bigger problems than is commonly appreciated.” shadowbanned@50 Posted by: bevin | Jun 1 2023 18:29 utc | 57 @ sean the leprechaun | Jun 1 2023 17:54 utc | 55 Posted by: james | Jun 1 2023 18:37 utc | 58 Am I the only one who thinks that when the US is doing it’s war games in June over next to Russia, that would be a perfect time for China to do something militarily to secure Taiwan. Posted by: Ceaclearly | Jun 1 2023 18:39 utc | 59 Thank you Barflies for your answers: Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 18:41 utc | 60 Re: De-Dollarization Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 18:43 utc | 61
Yes, but they weren’t independent for most the historical period we are talking about, when they were all in Yugoslavia and Belgrade was the center, and two of these — the Bosniaks and the Macedonians don’t/didn’t even exist to begin with. Now there is a Macedonian nation, but there was no such thing a century ago. Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 18:51 utc | 62 Swedish made anti tank weapons sent to Ukraine are showing up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels. Who would have thought? Posted by: Beverly | Jun 1 2023 19:06 utc | 63
Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 18:41 utc | 64 Posted by: West of England Andy | Jun 1 2023 19:11 utc | 64 There are reports that Ukrainian Forces have entered Shebekino, Russia and that heavy fighting is going on. Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 1 2023 19:14 utc | 65 CC: Posted by: Geraniums | Jun 1 2023 19:22 utc | 66
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 1 2023 19:14 utc | 69
Posted by: West of England Andy | Jun 1 2023 19:24 utc | 67 69. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 1 2023 19:39 utc | 68 Posted by: Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 Posted by: vtObserver | Jun 1 2023 19:40 utc | 69 Posted by: Milites | Jun 1 2023 17:40 utc | 52 Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 1 2023 19:41 utc | 70 Posted by: Beverly | Jun 1 2023 19:06 utc | 67 Posted by: Milites | Jun 1 2023 19:41 utc | 71 Re US Javelin’s showing up among Mexico’s cartels. Since posting certain links are not allowed at MOA, the source is Milenio TV. Their youtube channel has a news report with photos. From their youtube channel search option, type “Sicario pasea con lanzacohetes en Tamaulipas” The report is dated May 30. Posted by: Willow | Jun 1 2023 19:44 utc | 72 Air Defender 23 Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 1 2023 19:48 utc | 73 The Ukraine is being fucked anyway, but I suppose they like it that way. Such masochism is likely why they were attracted to western culture in the first place. Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 1 2023 19:50 utc | 74 Paul from Norway no. 79 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 1 2023 19:55 utc | 75 Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 1 2023 18:51 utc | 66 Posted by: Flavius | Jun 1 2023 19:56 utc | 76 Meanwhile, back in Clown World, the dementia patient nominally in charge of the worlds greatest military fell on stage again. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 1 2023 19:56 utc | 77 NZ govt-bought media reporting on signs that Wagner has plans for the Chatham Islands (lol) Posted by: Dave | Jun 1 2023 19:59 utc | 78 Dima says that Ukrainian counteroffensive is going to start in Transdnistria. Posted by: srbin@ | Jun 1 2023 20:01 utc | 79 But in the real world we are now at the point where Putin yesterday was openly lamenting how “nuclear deterrence is no longer having an effect”… Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 1 2023 20:07 utc | 80 https://news.sky.com/video/us-president-joe-biden-trips-and-falls-during-us-air-force-graduation-ceremony-12894613 Posted by: Scot1and | Jun 1 2023 20:11 utc | 81 Posted by: Scot1and | Jun 1 2023 20:11 utc | 87 Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 1 2023 20:23 utc | 82 Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 1 2023 19:41 utc | 75 Posted by: Milites | Jun 1 2023 20:33 utc | 83 From CyberspecNews Telegram Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jun 1 2023 20:35 utc | 84 Ukraine has just been thrown under the bus by the Nato Foreign Minister meeting in Oslo. Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 1 2023 20:36 utc | 85 Because it seems to me we need a repository/archive for the true facts and important facts about this Ukraine thing in the hopes of being able to influence the sheeple into changing their minds about supporting by showing the truth to them – and there does not seem to be anything – I have just put up a site called ukrainehonesty.com and I hope some will find it useful. Posted by: Paul from Norway | Jun 1 2023 20:36 utc | 91 Posted by: unimperator | Jun 1 2023 20:46 utc | 87 Col Doug Macgregor on Judge Napolitano on escalation, Prigozin’s call for new mobilization, his relation to Putin and the significance of the recent strike of the Command Centre in Kiev (c. 6 minutes). Posted by: @vec | Jun 1 2023 20:47 utc | 88 Opps … Not exactly reassuring considering he has a nuclear suitcase … Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jun 1 2023 20:47 utc | 89 Exile | Jun 1 2023 15:43 utc | 2 Posted by: Mercury | Jun 1 2023 20:51 utc | 90 Ahead of the NATO summit, amidst concerns that unanimous agreement to grant Ukraine NATO membership is not achievable, there has been talk of instead mandating an “Israel” style security partnership. This had come up before, over a year ago, from the Ukraine government. Posted by: jayc | Jun 1 2023 21:06 utc | 91 anon2020 | Jun 1 2023 16:09 utc | 17
I don’t want to use LOL but I did !! Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Jun 1 2023 21:27 utc | 92 NATO knows the wind patterns will also poison Europe if they conduct nuclear or biological warfare in Ukraine. NATO can’t appear to lose so they won’t hesitate to throw their partners under the bus to “defeat Russia” Posted by: Willow | Jun 1 2023 21:35 utc | 93 WaPo opining now that because Russia’s “red lines” weren’t stark enough and enforced with violence the Biden regime feels like it must escalate. Those who’ve yelled about red lines and retaliation all along will find comfort in being proven “correct”. Posted by: Lex | Jun 1 2023 21:37 utc | 94 Willow | Jun 1 2023 21:35 utc | 101 Posted by: Mercury | Jun 1 2023 21:53 utc | 95 2 PATRIOT SYSTEMS, 29 STORM SHADOW MISSILES, HEADQUARTERS OF MILITARY INTELLIGENCE IN KIEV: RUSSIA ASSESSED UKRAINIAN LOSSES
This is a clear sign of terrorist activity, he added. According to Putin, the recent drone attacks are “attempts to provoke” a response from Moscow, Kiev provokes it “to tit-for-tat response.” Posted by: HERMIUS | Jun 1 2023 22:01 utc | 96 vec | Jun 1 2023 20:47 utc | 94 Posted by: grunzt | Jun 1 2023 22:01 utc | 97 @ Exile #2 – Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 1 2023 22:05 utc | 98 Mercury | Jun 1 2023 21:53 utc | 103 Posted by: Gene Poole | Jun 1 2023 22:06 utc | 99 Ghost of Zanon | Jun 1 2023 16:17 utc | 21 Posted by: Fudup | Jun 1 2023 22:15 utc | 100 |
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