Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 5, 2023
Ukraine Launches Its Counterattack

The long announced Ukrainian counter offensive has started. New Ukrainian units, never seen before, have come to the front. 

The attack was launched by Ukraine for political reasons under pressure from its 'western' sponsors. Militarily it is unlikely to become successful but it will eat away at whatever is left of Ukraine's military capabilities.

Attacks happened all around the front. In the north towards Belgograd, to the east and, with the most forces, towards the south. There was so far little to no success in any of the attacks.

The daily report by the Russian Ministry of Defense list as Ukrainian losses over the last 24 hours 910 soldiers, 16 tanks, 33 armored combat vehicles/infantry fighting vehicle and some 30 trucks.

So far only the most forward positions of Russian troops have been attacked. There are two to three well organized defense lines behind those. The Russians can fall back whenever needed and let the artillery and air force destroy their oncoming enemies.

As I wrote previously about any attacks in the direction of Tokmak and Melitopol:

From the point of strategic value the chosen target is the right one. However, it is also the one where the Russian military has prepared its strongest defense lines.


Source: @Inkvisiit, Scribblemapsbigger

In military books this is know as 'echeloned defense' with three lines of well prepared positions ten kilometer apart from each other. Each line consists of tank obstacles, mine belts, prepared anti-tank positions to monitor and counter potential breach attempts and well prepared artillery support from behind the next defense line.


bigger

To crack such a nut without air support and without significant artillery advantage is nearly impossible.

There may still come larger attacks in other directions. But how many could there be?

As a former Swedish officer notes:

June 4th UkrAF scaled up offensive operations on the Southern Front, but the losses are too high for long time success. Earlier operations were mainly reconnaissance in force with platoon and company sized combat groups. Yesterday the Ukrainian forces seemed to be battalion sized combat groups. According to Russian MoD 8 UkrAF battalions was involved in offensive operations SE of Mala Tokmachka (1), at the Vremivka salient (2) and East of Vuhledar towards Velikonovoselovka (3). The fighting was intense, but on most places Ukrainian forces was turned back, mainly by intense Russian artillery and air attacks. On some places UkrAF succeeded in capturing a couple of hundred meters.

[If the Russian numbers are true], the prospects for a Ukrainian counteroffensive looks very dim. This is even if we don't take into account the ongoing intense Russian air and artillery offensive against UkrAF troop concentrations, ammunition and fuel depots.

With losses of over 1000 KIA and WIA that means that a Ukrainian brigade of 4000 man loose at least 25 percent of its manpower. That's on the brink of making a brigade unusable. Two days fighting with such losses would destroy a brigade's battle capability. 24 days with such losses would in effect destroy the entire fist of 12 brigades UkrAF has gathered for the counteroffensive. With losses of around 12 brigades, 25 000 KIA/WIA, 250 tanks and 1000 IFVs/APCs all the strategic reserves UkrAF has built during the last 6 months would be gone. In exchange the Ukrainian side could have advanced maybe 10 km on some places or more generally 2-3 km along maybe half the southern front.

Once again, IF the Russian claims are true, RuAF must feel relieved and UkrAF very worried by the results of the fighting on the Southern front June 4th.


bigger

I strongly suspect that the Russian military will let the Ukrainian attacks run their course to then launch its own larger scale attacks against weakened Ukrainian defenses.

Comments

Posted by: Thim | Jun 5 2023 23:47 utc | 197 “Just a couple days ago the near consensus here was that Ukraine was not going to start any offensive.”
This offensive has not done much yet…. Though Wagner says Ukraine is back in a part of Bakhmut. But that might just be the typical stuff he says to make his fellow Russians look bad.

Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 6 2023 0:02 utc | 201

“This offensive has not done much yet…”.
Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 6 2023 0:02 utc | 202
It has caused some mental gymnastics at the BBC. They aren’t sure what to believe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65813560

Posted by: dh | Jun 6 2023 0:13 utc | 202

The village of Novoselka, in which one of the fortified areas of the Ukrainian army in the Donetsk region is , was hit by 15 FAB-500 Glide Bombs. The amount of damage is still unknown.
( 15 )
https://t.me/s/Slavyangrad

Posted by: Derek Henry | Jun 6 2023 0:19 utc | 203

Posted by: Roger | Jun 5 2023 23:28 utc | 194
Do you get your facts from Seventies history books. I only say this because you seem to state a lot of theories that were in vogue then. The German command structure was a joke, with a lack of a supreme leader making the coordination of troops from different services a nightmare and operational responsibility an exercise in bureaucracy, not reality. When the two senior leaders are bickering about what defensive strategy they should employ, fixed or mobile, up to the date of the invasion something has gone badly wrong before the first shot is fired or bomb dropped. The German’s persisted in fielding a small group of ‘elite’ divisions to the detriment of their largely leg infantry units, who were starved of armoured support. The Allied soldiers fought for a solid month across some of the worst terrain in the war, against some of the best German units and destroyed them, with the help of the 2nd TAF, but also with combined arms and solid infantry tactics. Montgomery is a marmite general, my grandfather in law, a Desert Rat, loved him, others are not so kind. Either way he had the opportunity to lose the battle, which he didn’t. As for his German counterparts, they were singularly unimpressive and often wasted the precious resources they had or showed a surprising inflexibility. Tactically, the men they commanded conducted a skilful defence and maximised the terrain they fought in.
As for the Ardennes offensive, there was a reason why the fuel ran out and the skies cleared and it wasn’t bad luck. As for the combat efficiency of the units, spotty at best, with some SS units truly shocking in their abilities (check out 12th SS Panzer shockingly inept attempt at breaking out at Krinkelt-Rocherath). Individually, as at Normandy, German units were tactically proficient, operationally mediocre and constantly suffering from the consequences of strategic blunders.

Posted by: Milites | Jun 6 2023 0:20 utc | 204

Posted by: Tim2 | Jun 6 2023 0:02 utc | 202
Have they launched an offensive or an ‘offensive’? Will the status change depending on how successful it will be? As they say, win an offensive and the neo-cons win with you, lose though and you snort your coke alone.

Posted by: Milites | Jun 6 2023 0:29 utc | 205

Posted by: Thim | Jun 5 2023 23:47 utc | 197
What big territorial gains has UAF made in the past 2 days? Heck, what meaningful territorial gains of any size have they made?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 6 2023 0:36 utc | 206

Civil defense protections for civilians in Kiev.
—————-
‘Disbelief’ Over Slew Of Closed Kyiv Bomb Shelters
June 05, 2023 18:22 GMT
By Taras Levchenko
RFE/RL’s Ukrainian Service
Austin Malloy
A Ukrainian minister has expressed “disbelief” over the number of shut or unusable bomb shelters in Kyiv following an initial inspection across the capital. It came after the death of three civilians — including a 9-year-old girl — who were unable to access a closed shelter on June 1. On Telegram, the minister of strategic industries, Oleksandr Kamyshin, said only about half of the 1,078 shelters examined were usable.
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-kyiv-bomb-shelter-closed-rocket-attack-/32445772.html

Posted by: daffyDuct | Jun 6 2023 0:43 utc | 207

Kiev regime “counteroffensive” attempt failed – Russian MoD:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/ukrainian-counteroffensive-failed:5
Russian Ka-52s obliterates the Kiev regime’s offensive (a Leopard 2A4 tank was possibly destroyed):
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/IMG_0436_MP4:9
Russian airborne troops fire Kornet ATGM at an enemy position in a forest:
https://rutube.ru/video/2f39ce19297ddf0688a01c1159c59ec8/
Russian TOS-1A system in action near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/a2df672ed35976a0ab8c9595b31bebc9/
US Navy diver style boot was discovered near a Nord Stream pipeline sabotage site (more evidence of direct US involvement in the attacks has been uncovered):
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/boot-nord:4

Posted by: Nate | Jun 6 2023 0:46 utc | 208

Tim2 @ 200:
The difference is that most of the traffic on the Kerch bridge is civilian traffic. Russian military may be using the bridge as well to transport equipment at night or certain other times when civilian traffic is low. I should think though that during the day, most days, the bridge is used primarily by civilian traffic.
In Ukraine on the other hand, the bridges attacked by Russian forces are being used mainly by the Ukrainian military, so their destruction is within permitted warfare conventions if the Russian have pinpointed through their drones and other surveillance equipment that the bridges are being used for military purposes.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 6 2023 0:49 utc | 209

DH @ 203:
Oh dear, the BBC journalists must be having the twisties. Up is down, down is up, and round and round … doing 360 degree turns Baerbock-style.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 6 2023 0:54 utc | 210

Thim | Jun 5 2023 23:47 utc | 197
Here’s one for for your scorecard. I see from twitter, Daily Mail Australia is reporting the township of Readovka, presumably located on the very outskirts of Moscow, has been breached by the Ukrainian advance.
https://twitter.com/lame_qwack/status/1665757476451385355
———
[[as a truly horrific discovery. I see from the screenie that Daily Fail has a header tab, alongside Home, News, Australia, Meghan Markle,
Sport….. ]]

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 0:56 utc | 211

Looks like the Ukrainian offensive is not going very far against stiff Russian resistance.

Posted by: young | Jun 6 2023 1:01 utc | 212

@123 roland where to find info that isn’t 100 percent modern propaganda “narratives”
Read old books and magazines published during the time you want to know about
And act quick book burning, modern cancel style, is rapidly burning through the books available on Amazon, or saved online.
All you need is an author name or specific book name. The internet won’t give you the ideas, but its too anal to not list everything by title, because computers and nerds love databases.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 6 2023 1:20 utc | 213

Hard for some here to comprehend. But it’s “highly likely” some of the USNATO top brass really believed Russia was “defeated” in the retreat from Kiev, Kharkov and Kherson.
Now that Russia is prepped, with layered defensive positions, and a determination to fight and win… these “strategists”, (who presumably have prevailed over the backroom dissent) are now discovering Russia is indeed a formidable fighting force.
>What’s that rule? Something something, never fight a land war in Europe against Russia … Sweden couldn’t do it, France couldn’t do it, Germany couldn’t do it, and now, all three combined, (With more than a little help from their friends…) are about to learn that lesson all over again.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 1:30 utc | 214

Novaya Kakhovka dam destroyed?

❗️ There is information about a possible strike of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the dam in Nova Kakhovka.
Water levels are reported to rise downstream.
https://t.me/swodki/268429
Kakhovskaya HPP was completely destroyed at 03:10. At 02.35, after arriving at the Kakhovskaya HPP, one leaf was destroyed, under the pressure of water, a cascade destruction of the Kakhovskaya HPP began. At 03.10 Kakhovskaya HPP ceased to exist.
https://t.me/swodki/268430
The main problem with blowing up the dam at the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station is that Russian positions are located on the low bank of the Dnieper.
The flow of water can erode the line of defense on the coast and prevent the repulse of a potential boat landing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
https://t.me/swodki/268431

Flooding downstream is actually the the smallest of the problems the destruction of the dam causes. The Novaya Kakhovka dam and the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant create a reservoir on the Dnieper River that extends all the way to Zaporozhye. If the dam is destroyed, the water level in the Kakhovka Reservoir will fall, creating three huge problems for Russia.

  1. A lower water level may allow Ukraine to ford the Dnieper River and attack the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant in Energodar.
  2. The Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant relies on the reservoir for its cooling water. The power plant is in a cold shutdown, but it still needs cooling for its residual heat.
  3. The North Crimean Canal gets its water from the Kakhovka Reservoir. The canal was blocked by Ukraine for years, depriving Crimea of irrigation water, but unblocked by Russia after the SMO started.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 6 2023 1:33 utc | 215

I’ve been pondering why the F-16???
Everyone thinks for ground attack or air superiority over the battle field….
50 it is agreed are too few to make a dent in those operations…
BUT…..
What if the purpose is Nuclear Blackmail??? F-16s can carry nukes…
50 could do a dash via nap of the earth to St. Pete/Moscow with B61s on a one way trip, suicide mission to demand Russian capitulation…
AfTER ALL…..
The Ukies are NUTS!
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 6 2023 1:35 utc | 216

That sounds bad, but doesn’t it also deprive Ukraine of electricity? Something they’re not going to be able to replace by fixing a few substations.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 6 2023 1:36 utc | 217

@ Petri Krohn | Jun 6 2023 1:33 utc | 216
thanks petri.. that’s a concern… i wonder what contingency plan russia has for this?? ideas anyone?

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2023 1:41 utc | 218

here: the NYT text
sry found no better way of posting it here.
But I guess antiwar will bring a better formatted soon. After all this article is being discussed many places
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbolsukraine.
html
“(…)
Troops’ use of patches bearing Nazi emblems risks fueling Russian
propaganda and spreading imagery that the West has spent a half-century
trying to eliminate.
By Thomas Gibbons-Neff
June 5, 2023 Updated 1:12 p.m. ET
KYIV, Ukraine — Since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine last year, the
Ukrainian government and NATO allies have posted, then quietly deleted,
three seemingly innocuous photographs from their social media feeds: a
soldier standing in a group, another resting in a trench and an emergency
worker posing in front of a truck.
In each photograph, Ukrainians in uniform wore patches featuring symbols
that were made notorious by Nazi Germany and have since become part of
the iconography of far-right hate groups.
The photographs, and their deletions, highlight the Ukrainian military’s
complicated relationship with Nazi imagery, a relationship forged under both
Soviet and German occupation during World War II.
That relationship has become especially delicate because President Vladimir
V. Putin of Russia has falsely declared Ukraine to be a Nazi state, a claim he
has used to justify his illegal invasion.
Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History
Ukraine has worked for years through legislation and military restructuring
to contain a fringe far-right movement whose members proudly wear symbols
steeped in Nazi history and espouse views hostile to leftists, L.G.B.T.Q.
movements and ethnic minorities. But some members of these groups have
been fighting Russia since the Kremlin illegally annexed part of the Crimea
region of Ukraine in 2014 and are now part of the broader military structure.
Some are regarded as national heroes, even as the far-right remains
marginalized politically.
The iconography of these groups, including a skull-and-crossbones patch
worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun,
now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the
front line, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukrainian
sovereignty and pride, not Nazism.
In the short term, that threatens to reinforce Mr. Putin’s propaganda and
giving fuel to his false claims that Ukraine must be “de-Nazified” — a
position that ignores the fact that Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is
Jewish. More broadly, Ukraine’s ambivalence about these symbols, and
sometimes even its acceptance of them, risks giving new, mainstream life to
icons that the West has spent more than a half-century trying to eliminate.
“What worries me, in the Ukrainian context, is that people in Ukraine who are
in leadership positions, either they don’t or they’re not willing to acknowledge
and understand how these symbols are viewed outside of Ukraine,” said
Michael Colborne, a researcher at the investigative group Bellingcat who
studies the international far right. “I think Ukrainians need to increasingly
realize that these images undermine support for the country.”
In a statement, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said that, as a country that
suffered greatly under German occupation, “We emphasize that Ukraine
categorically condemns any manifestations of Nazism.”
So far, the imagery has not eroded international support for the war. It has,
however, left diplomats, Western journalists and advocacy groups in a difficult
position: Calling attention to the iconography risks playing into Russian
propaganda. Saying nothing allows it to spread.
Even Jewish groups and anti-hate organizations that have traditionally called
out hateful symbols have stayed largely silent. Privately, some leaders have
worried about being seen as embracing Russian propaganda talking points.
Questions over how to interpret such symbols are as divisive as they are
persistent, and not just in Ukraine. In the American South, some have insisted
that today, the Confederate flag symbolizes pride, not its history of racism and
secession. The swastika was an important Hindu symbol before it was coopted
by the Nazis.
In April, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted a photograph on its Twitter
account of a soldier wearing a patch featuring a skull and crossbones known
as the Totenkopf, or Death’s Head. The specific symbol in the picture was
made notorious by a Nazi unit that committed war crimes and guarded
concentration camps during World War II.
The patch in the photograph sets the Totenkopf atop a Ukrainian flag with a
small No. 6 below. That patch is the official merchandise of Death in June, a
British neo-folk band that the Southern Poverty Law Center has said produces
“hate speech” that “exploits themes and images of fascism and Nazism.”
The Anti-Defamation League considers the Totenkopf “a common hate
symbol.” But Jake Hyman, a spokesman for the group, said it was impossible
to “make an inference about the wearer or the Ukrainian Army” based on the
patch.
“The image, while offensive, is that of a musical band,” Mr. Hyman said.
The band now uses the photograph posted by the Ukrainian military to
market the Totenkopf patch.
The New York Times asked the Ukrainian Defense Ministry on April 27 about
the tweet. Several hours later, the post was deleted. “After studying this case,
we came to the conclusion that this logo can be interpreted ambiguously,” the
ministry said in a statement.
The soldier in the photograph was part of a volunteer unit called the Da Vinci
Wolves, which started as part of the paramilitary wing of Ukraine’s Right
Sector, a coalition of right-wing organizations and political parties that
militarized after Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea.
At least five other photographs on the Wolves’ Instagram and Facebook pages
feature their soldiers wearing Nazi-style patches, including the Totenkopf.
NATO militaries, an alliance that Ukraine hopes to join, do not tolerate such
patches. When such symbols have appeared, groups like the Anti-Defamation
League have spoken out, and military leaders have reacted swiftly.
Last month, Ukraine’s state emergency services agency posted on Instagram
a photograph of an emergency worker wearing a Black Sun symbol, also
known as a Sonnenrad, that appeared in the castle of Heinrich Himmler, the
Nazi general and SS director. The Black Sun is popular among neo-Nazis and
white supremacists.
In March 2022, NATO’s Twitter account posted a photograph of a Ukrainian
soldier wearing a similar patch.
Both photographs were quickly removed.
In November, during a meeting with Times reporters near the front line, a
Ukrainian press officer wore a Totenkopf variation made by a company called
R3ICH (pronounced “Reich”). He said he did not believe the patch was
affiliated with the Nazis. A second press officer present said other journalists
had asked soldiers to remove the patch before taking photographs.
Ihor Kozlovskyi, a Ukrainian historian and religious scholar, said that the
symbols had meanings that were unique to Ukraine and should be interpreted
by how Ukrainians viewed them, not by how they had been used elsewhere.
“The symbol can live in any community or any history independently of how it
is used in other parts of Earth,” Mr. Kozlovskyi said.
Russian soldiers in Ukraine have also been seen wearing Nazi-style patches,
underscoring how complicated interpreting these symbols can be in a region
steeped in Soviet and German history.
The Soviet Union signed a nonaggression pact with Germany in 1939, so it was
caught by surprise two years later when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, which
was then part of the Soviet Union. Ukraine had suffered greatly under a Soviet
government that engineered a famine that killed millions. Many Ukrainians
initially viewed the Nazis as liberators.
Factions from the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and its insurgent
army fought alongside the Nazis in what they viewed as a struggle for
Ukrainian sovereignty. Members of those groups also took part in atrocities
against Jewish and Polish civilians. Later in the war, though, some of the
groups fought against the Nazis.
A Ukrainian service member is wearing what appears to be a Black Sun on the chest of
her uniform in this photograph published by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of
Ukraine on Feb. 14 and on the NATO Twitter account before being deleted. General Staff
of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Some Ukrainians joined Nazi military units like the Waffen-SS Galizien. The
emblem of the group, which was led by German officers, was a sky-blue patch
showing a lion and three crowns. The unit took part in a massacre of hundreds
of Polish civilians in 1944. In December, after a yearslong legal battle,
Ukraine’s highest court ruled that a government-funded research institute
could continue to list the unit’s insignia as excluded from the Nazi symbols
banned under a 2015 law.
Today, as a new generation fights against Russian occupation, many
Ukrainians see the war as a continuation of the struggle for independence
during and immediately after World War II. Symbols like the flag associated
with the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Galizien patch have become
emblems of anti-Russian resistance and national pride.
That makes it difficult to easily separate, on the basis of icons alone, the
Ukrainians enraged by the Russian invasion from those who support the
country’s far-right groups.
Units like the Da Vinci Wolves, the better-known Azov regiment and others
that began with far-right members have been folded into the Ukrainian
military, and have been instrumental in defending Ukraine from Russian
A Russian volunteer fighter for the Ukrainian Army, center, wearing a Galizien patch
and another featuring a Totenkopf in southern Ukraine in 2022. Ivor Prickett for The
New York Times
troops.
The Azov regiment was celebrated after holding out during the siege of the
southern city of Mariupol last year. After the commander of the Da Vinci
Wolves was killed in March, he received a hero’s funeral, which Mr. Zelensky
attended.
“I think some of these far-right units mix a fair bit of their own mythmaking
into the public discourse on them,” said Mr. Colborne, the researcher. “But I
think the least that can and should be done everywhere, not just Ukraine, is
not allowing the far right’s symbols, rhetoric and ideas to seep into public
discourse.”
Kitty Bennett and Susan C. Beachy contributed research.
Thomas Gibbons-Neff is a Ukraine correspondent and a former Marine infantryman. @tmgneff

Posted by: AG | Jun 6 2023 1:42 utc | 219

Richard Steven Hack | Jun 5 2023 23:20 utc | 192–
Another very important component is the Why/What are we fighting for? For US Troops, the genuine answer is for Empire and nothing else: Not protection of hearth, home and family. That the Nazi aspect is again seeing the light-of-day in BigLie Media is also a negative factor for troop motivation, plus it’s all over social media and would be very hard to censor now.
The reality at the outset in 2014 was Ukraine wasn’t worth anyone dying for, but the situation as we know has long been contrived to promote Nazism in Ukraine so it could be used against Russia, and that’s the only reason why combat is happening.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 6 2023 1:54 utc | 220

Don Firineach | Jun 5 2023 23:51 utc | 198–
Who would order such an attack?
Someone on Hitler’s level. Think of the implication of that for a moment….
The person/group running NATO is sitting in Hitler’s chair. IMO, Ukie command is following orders for the perks/$$$$ except for those who are 100% Nazis, and in that case they just want to kill Russian speakers.
Paul Wolfowitz probably never thought of himself as a Nazi, but his Doctrine is 100% Nazi Doctrine.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 6 2023 2:03 utc | 221

Ghost of Zanon | Jun 5 2023 13:46 utc | 13
Martin Armstrong and others have July as a turning point in the war cycle.
RESPONSE: Martin Armstrong is worth listening to. I first heard him speak on Greg Hunter’s USAWATCHDOG years ago.
I don’t know exactly what Martin means by “a turning point in the war cycle”. I think he means that war worldwide ramps up into greater conflict?
I agree that the Ukrainian’s new “offensive” could burn itself out by July. I suspect the Russians will signficantly advance as the AFU exhausts themselves.
Whenever and wherever the AFU proves to be weak along the zero line, Russia will advance taking a substantial amount of territory.
Most likely the failure of this new offensive will lead to the quick and decisive taking of the Donbas and Zaporizhzhia by Russia. At that point the escalation from the West will be so severe that Putin will have no choice but to launch directly against the USA.
This scenario could happen soon, within a month is possible making Martin correct yet again.

Posted by: young | Jun 6 2023 2:03 utc | 222

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 6 2023 1:33 utc | 216
During 2022 Ukraine Kherson offensive, Russian forces broke a dam on Dnipro River too. No big deal.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Jun 6 2023 2:07 utc | 223

@KitaySupporter | Jun 6 2023 2:07 utc | 224

During 2022 Ukraine Kherson offensive, Russian forces broke a dam on Dnipro River too. No big deal.

No. It was a dam on the Ingulets River. And only its floodgates.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 6 2023 2:18 utc | 224

KitaySupporter | Jun 6 2023 2:07 utc | 224
You: all Ukraine’s dams are exactly the same.
Blowing one yields exactly the same result every time.
—————-
Speaking of blow:
Zelensky. Reviewing resources. “This supply is not enough …
https://twitter.com/chezzy51/status/1665695132740403203

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 2:23 utc | 225

Video confirmation of Novaya Kakhovka dam destruction:

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦 It has been confirmed that the Nova Kakhovka dam in Kherson Oblast has been blown up…
https://t.me/intelslava/48432

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 6 2023 2:24 utc | 226

WWIII here we come )-:
https://twitter.com/cirnosad/status/1665904712926007296

Posted by: Akash | Jun 6 2023 2:30 utc | 227

Nazis in Ukraine. An August 2019, 8min, Time mag vid-doco.
Someone pls save before it’s deleted.
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1350428277610065925
>…”Like, share, recruit: How a white-supremacist militia uses Facebook to radicalize and train new members https://ti.me/3qr2Oqn”
>…https://twitter.com/ACleverNickname/status/1504929779086069760
This guy saved it. Because.
https://archive.is/Zmlpy

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 2:38 utc | 228

H/t Akash.
Here’s vid of the dam waters flowing.
https://twitter.com/squatsons/status/1665904490187485185

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 2:41 utc | 229

The Brits only won El Alamein with a massive superiority in numbers and a defensive plan developed by Montgomery’s predecessor Auchinleck (Montgomery has to be one of the most overrated military leaders in history).
Posted by: Roger | Jun 5 2023 23:28 utc | 194
———————————————————-
Rommel needed fuel, ordnance and spare parts. Hitler gave him none and whatever little that was sent was subject to Allied torpedoes in the Mediterranean. Montgomery, who was a tanker, read that situation correctly.
He was pressed into service for Market Garden and to this date in the Netherlands is still remembered unkindly as the guy who went ‘A bridge too far.’ The UK war planners did not remember the ‘Fallschirmjäger’ who dropped in The Hague in 1940. Audrey Hepbun, who was half-Dutch attended to the wounded, which she said, made a life long impression on her.
My badge holder, when a government contractor for fifteen years, was from the 82nd Airborne, who, along with 101st, suffered the highest casualties in their history there. I explained, when asked, that I wore it in gratitude to all the Americans who scarificed their lives. Tears in the eyes of the older 82nd vets.
To this day, September 18 is the day for rubber raft races in Fort Brag (renamed to Fort Liberty) to commemorate that event. I am still grateful. Americans were for the longest time a special breed.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 6 2023 2:42 utc | 230

@Posted by: Milites | Jun 6 2023 0:20 utc | 205
I will ignore the childish insults and provide an accurate summary of what happened in Normandy (I have not the time to do the same for your limited comments on the Battle fo the Bulge). Please refrain from such idiotic personal attacks in the future.
The delay in moving the reserve Panzer divisions to Normandy cost the Germans as the skies cleared and US air supremacy made such movements in daylight suicidal, but just as important was the previous destruction of the road and rail networks leading to Normandy by Allied air raids and the German worries of a second invasion at the Pas de Calais. Rommel’s absence in Germany on the very day of the invasion was also very fortuitous for the Allies. Once the Allies were properly ashore and established there was no way that the available German forces could have won given their lack of air cover and their numbers.
After that it was more Hitler not giving operational freedom to von Runstedt and Rommel, and his no withdrawal policy that caused the issues as much as any Rommel and von Runstedt disagreements (also Hitlers yanking away of both men to Germany at a critical period at the end of June). The German forces extremely effectively utilized the terrain (the bocage) to their advantage under Allied air supremacy and the ongoing buildup in Allied forces. Even then, the Allied Air Force even managed to put out of action for a while the head of Panzer Group West and destroy his headquarters on June 11th using an ULTRA intercept (and took out Rommel on July 17th). Lets also remember that the Allies were looking at the German plans and communications via ULTRA.
Yes it was difficult terrain, but the Germans optimized it for defence. The use of the tired out desert experienced British forces from the North Africa campaign also helped the Germans, as they were not well suited to the terrain and had been fighting for years without a break and may have been a bit more wary of taking risks of less burnt out troops, as well as having a certain amount of arrogance gained from NA and Italian campaigns. The Brits also did not adjust their tactics once the Germans had taken full advantage of the terrain, and they did not possess the combined arms nature of the German panzer divisions. Also, the Montgomery / Bradley relationship was an ongoing headache for Eisenhower.
i.e. even with problems in the German senior command, the training, experience and organization of the German fighting units gave them a significant advantage over the Allied formations that was most definitely seen on the left flank at Caen and across the front more generally.
It was the breakout from Cobra into open territory conducive to the use of armour lead by Patton backed up by overwhelming air superiority that broke the Allies free of the terrain that aided the much weaker Germans. Only when encircled in the Falaise Pocket from the south did the Germans finally surrender, they were certainly not destroyed in the fighting in the bocage, and that was after 10,000 died in the pocket.
“reduced to the pitiful necessity of using horses as a major means of transport … astonishingly the German Army still battled to the bitter end at Falaise” (Decision in Normandy by Carlo D’Este, one of the best books on the topic of Normandy).

Posted by: Roger | Jun 6 2023 2:45 utc | 231

Perimetr | Jun 5 2023 23:15 utc | 190
Posted by: Milites | Jun 5 2023 20:19 utc | 145
Thanks for a lot of info on the topic of Battle of Kursk.

Posted by: fanto | Jun 6 2023 2:48 utc | 232

Anyone seeing/ finding flood maps for lower Ukraine?
Pls post.
This flooding is going to be biblical.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 2:50 utc | 233

Ukie counteroffensive was planned by NATO. June 11 to 18 NATO air drill is an attempt to keep the RF air force on standby to face any NATO incursion. This depletes the number of planes Russia has to fight Ukies. So expect NATO to break all hell loose during this time to support their unfortunate Ukie friends.
Ukies will use their SU24s with British Storm Shadow junk to attack Russian positions. Their hangers are known. These must be eliminated now.

Posted by: Jason | Jun 6 2023 2:51 utc | 234

@fnord #121 “France and the USA (via Henry Ford) were already engaging in technology transfers with the USSR by 1939”
Yes, for example (Wikipedia):

In 1928 a Soviet delegation arrived in Cleveland, Ohio, to discuss with American consulting company Arthur G. McKee a plan to set up in Magnitogorsk a copy of the US Steel steel-mill in Gary. The contract was increased four times, and eventually the new plant had a capacity of over four million tons annually.

At the time, the plant in Gary was the largest steel mill in the world, and remains the largest integrated mill in North America even today.

Posted by: BillB | Jun 6 2023 2:53 utc | 235

@ Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 2:50 utc | 234
this shows the possibilities..
https://t.me/intelslava/48433

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2023 2:54 utc | 236

But an article on APNews from May 26th says the dam was already overflowing and damaged then as a result of snow melt and bad management, 2 weeks ago or so:
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-nuclear-dnipro-river-flood-df2aaa99cab8b0e0d7a4b26bd77cad0f

Posted by: bruce | Jun 6 2023 2:54 utc | 237

Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 2:50 utc | 234
https://t.me/intelslava/48433

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2023 2:55 utc | 238

@Oui 100

“Zelenskyy is the Winston Churchill of our time”

I am inclined to agree. They’re both racist war criminal genocidaires who want tu bdestroy Russia.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 6 2023 2:57 utc | 239

@Oui 100

“Zelenskyy is the Winston Churchill of our time”

I am inclined to agree. They’re both racist war criminal genocidaires who want tu bdestroy Russia.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 6 2023 2:57 utc | 240

Quick round up of German press Tuesday morning (their time)
No mention at all of any counter offensive by Kiev – none at all.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 6 2023 2:58 utc | 241

@AG #220
Archived NY times article with photos: https://archive.is/DSvIn

Posted by: BillB | Jun 6 2023 3:02 utc | 242

Totenkopf. Is a universal hate symbol, says the Anti Defamation League.
But not when seen in Ukraine. Then it’s just cultural curiosity.
https://twitter.com/MaxAbrahms/status/1665799150644895747
@james. Tanks, m8. Flooding to be Biblical.
Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 6 2023 2:57 utc | 239

“Zelenskyy is the Winston Churchill of our time”
I am inclined to agree. They’re both racist war criminal genocidaires who want to destroy Russia

Yep.
@posters obsessing about refighting WW2.
Can you pls shut the fuck up and focus on what’s happening right fucking *now*, in WW3?
Thanks so much.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 3:06 utc | 243

simplicius overview..
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/breaking-hell-breaks-loose-as-khakovka

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2023 3:06 utc | 244

Kakhovka dam has been blown up by Ukraine. This insane act is a game changer. Ukraine is about to cease to exist.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 6 2023 3:10 utc | 245

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 3:06 utc | 243
Hi Mel. Have you just infiltrated my mind. I was about to say the same (minus expletives).
honestly people. WWII is about to start and you are all discussing WWII. Everyone knows that wards are often lost because the generals fight the last one, not the current one.
Can we please post the WWII minutiae on the open thread.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 6 2023 3:11 utc | 246

@Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 6 2023 2:42 utc | 231

Rommel needed fuel, ordnance and spare parts. Hitler gave him none and whatever little that was sent was subject to Allied torpedoes in the Mediterranean. Montgomery, who was a tanker, read that situation correctly.

Claude Auchinleck was removed from his position as the head of Middle East Command and Head of the Eight Army in August 1942, by Churchill after refusing to carry out what would most probably have been a disastrous counter-attack ordered by Churchill. His replacement as head of the army (William Gott) was killed on his way to the theatre. That’s how Montgomery came to be commanding the Eight Army only 60 miles from the Alexandria base of supplies (Rommels supply lines were massively overstretched and his force was down to three days supply of fuel) and with the impassable Qattara Depression protecting his southern flank. Also, the Brits had access to German messages through ULTRA.
After Rommels failed attacks against a terrain that favoured defence he dug in and Montgomery added to his forces for two months until in late October he attacked with an advantage of 2:1 in men and tanks, and a much greater availability of supplies, plus the better Sherman tanks. Montgomery was just in the right place at the right time, it didn’t take a genius to defeat a force half the size with greatly depleted supplies. He was also a great self publicist. Rommel wasn’t even on the ground commanding when the British attack began.

Posted by: Roger | Jun 6 2023 3:17 utc | 247

🇬🇧⚔️🇺🇦127th division launched a counterattack on the Vremievsky salient, destroying and driving back the enemy
▪️Our friends from one of the hottest sectors of the front now got in touch and told the details of the latest battles at the junction of the Zaporozhye and South Donetsk fronts, which began yesterday and continued today.
▪️The guys assure – Neskuchnoe is not taken, ours are there and they get in touch every 2 hours.
▪️During the offensive in the Neskuchny area, after losing equipment in the minefields, the enemy was able to enter our forward positions, but ran into a fierce rebuff from tanks and infantry, covered by artillery and aviation fire.
▪️ Having got stuck, the Ukrainian Nazis brought up the reserves of the 28th Ombre and 31st Ombre of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
▪️Army aviation came to the rescue: “Alligators” and “Night hunters” attacked armored groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with guided missiles.
▪️Russian artillery began to work from the entire range of weapons against the advancing forces: D-30, D-20, self-propelled guns and MLRS.
▪️After artillery preparation, units of the 127th division of the Russian Armed Forces launched a counterattack. Russian fighters put Ukrainian fighters to flight.
▪️Preliminary losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine: 20 tanks, 41 armored personnel carriers, 16 armored vehicles, 4 artillery installations and more than 300 people wounded and killed personnel.
▪️Right now, the enemy has pulled up new armored groups and is trying to bring them into battle, fire damage is inflicted in places of accumulation, the fighting continues.
RVvoenkor

Seems Ukro offensive at Neskuchno was routed on the second day of offensive.
Also, apparently the Leopard tanks were spotted near Novodonetske (W/SW of Neskuchno). Ukro expanding the bridgehead around Novodonetske might be dangerous as it could make the positions NW at Neskuchnoe moot and forced pull back. On the other hand, if there are reserves to destroy the Ukro spearhead around Novodonetske then there’s no problem.

Ukrainian-Russian war. Day 467:
Situation southwest of Donetsk: Ukrainian Army launched new offensive in this area and managed to recapture the town of Novodonets’ke/Новодонецьке. It’s important to note that Ukrainian troops took control over positions in the grey area during the last days, which allowed later to launch the attack from the southern shore of Shaitanka river. Meanwhile the town of Neskuchne/Нескучне was fully secured by Russian Army and Ukrainian attack towards Urozhaine/Урожайне was repelled.
Map: [ https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=47.76656358212125%2C36.93283688533569&z=12 ]

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 3:18 utc | 248

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 6 2023 1:33 utc | 216
Well, if any of that is true, someone tell me again how Surovikin’s decision to pull out of Kherson was a good idea.
As I’ve said before, the Russians, for some reason, probably having to do with the speed of their advance in the first days of the war, had achieved a bridgehead over the Dnieper. Anyone with a brain would say that is a strategic advantage, especially if the Ukrainian army in Donbass pulls back across the Dnieper and tries to fortify that line. Having your forces already on the west side would allow the Russians to outflank them.
The dam has been sitting there for a year. Before Surovikin pulled out, it was sitting there for ten months.
Either fish or cut bait. Surovikin chose to cut bait, pull his forces out and use them elsewhere (probably in Bahkmut as Wagner support, although I don’t know that.)
Had he reinforced the bridgehead – “fish” – so it could withstand Ukrainian forces regardless of the dam’s condition, they would be in a better position now. The Zaporozhye would not be under threat and the North Crimea Canal would be safe.
I love it when a plan comes together. Unfortunately in this case it is my plan, not the Russian General Staff’s or Surovikin’s.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 3:26 utc | 249

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 6 2023 1:35 utc | 217
Uhm, no.
1) F-16s will never make it. Russian Air Defense.
2) I doubt the US Pentagon is going to permit Ukraine to have arming control over any nukes – or supply Ukraine with nukes in the first place.
3) I doubt the US Pentagon is going to try a “decapitation strike” with a couple F-16s.
In short, the concept is bonkers. It’s on a par with: somehow the NATO exercises are cover for a massive air strike against Russia.
It’s also on a par with all the “false flag” talk which has been non-stop since before the war even started. We’ve yet to see a credible one.
This is all bullshit. While anything is theoretically possible, what is actually probable is that none of this will ever happen.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 3:31 utc | 250

Simplicius is essential Reading:
BREAKING: Hell Breaks Loose as Kakhovka Dam Completely Destroyed
Major news broke that the Nova Khakovka dam has been completely destroyed.
This is the central, extremely important dam that was critical to the whole Kherson situation last year.
It was the sole reason Russia retreated, as the threat of destroying the dam kept their troops on the right/western bank of the Dnieper river highly vulnerable.
Footage has just released confirming the catastrophic destruction:
link again:
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/breaking-hell-breaks-loose-as-khakovka

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 3:37 utc | 251

Melaleuca @ 75
“Turns out the Russian Freedom Fighters that crossed the border to liberate Belgorod on the 22nd of May speak perfect Polish.”
The Western Excuse is that “they had to speek Polish because speaking Russian is outlawed in the Ukraine”.
I wonder if the depleted uranium is now flying?

Posted by: circumspect | Jun 6 2023 3:38 utc | 252

Will the lowering of the river on higher side of Nova Kakohvka dam enable to cross the river? Will the river dry up?
It might make crossing easier, which may cause a problem. As Ukros have some stuff at Nikopol.
But we must also keep in mind that their offensive in Zap region is so far limited at Velyka Novosilka, which is basically the furthest away from Melitopol. It makes little sense to attempt crossing the river unless they achieve success in the most fortified area, that is, Orekhov-Vasylivka.
There’s also the other aspect whether the Energodar NPP can get the supply of cooling water due to lower water level. Or has it already been shut down?

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 3:47 utc | 253

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 3:37 utc | 252
Info war just went overboard like the Dnepr river in that video of the Kakhovka dam. Hard to believe anything anymore, but the town mayor denies any destruction, just a regulated release. I have not seen any picture of the many destroyed Leopards either.
So here is Lennon telling us that he does not believe in anything, except me.
https://youtu.be/aCNkPpq1giU

Posted by: Paco | Jun 6 2023 3:49 utc | 254

Paco | Jun 6 2023 3:49 utc | 255
>… “just a regulated release.”
Cue Python’s Black Knight: “just a flash wound… I’ve had worse”.…
“Regulated releases” … usually don’t wash away buildings….
______
**Has anybody bothered to actually view the vids linked before posting???

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 3:57 utc | 255

Simplicius:
For those who’ve already read the article, scroll back up to the end of the DAM section, I’ve just updated newly released surveillance footage of the dam being exploded.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 4:00 utc | 256

I hate when people rewrite history and think they know better than the RF army and especially Surovikin.
I hate when people cannot control their emotions.
The ukronazis committed a war crime. Period.
Crimea lived 8 years without water from the Dniepr. They will go on living.
Likely the dam was destroyed by western weapons: then the West will be complicit of that crime.
Now let’s see how the corrupt western medias will announce that Russians did it.

Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 6 2023 4:00 utc | 257

Posted by: dave | Jun 6 2023 3:51 utc | 256
Into the Black Sea. Your point?

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 4:06 utc | 258

Scott S 251, I don’t fear that Russia will respond severely to the blowing up of the Karkhovka Dam, I welcome it.
Are you really saying that this is not a monumental event?

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 6 2023 4:10 utc | 259

“257
Simplicius:
For those who’ve already read the article, scroll back up to the end of the DAM section, I’ve just updated newly released surveillance footage of the dam being exploded.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 4:00 utc | 258”
Many ppl on twitter say thats a 1 year old video. Ill believe them.
Still. Russia media has just released an update that dam is broken and flodding is happening.
Lol this is a crazy war. Both sides blaming each other and neither is sure which side benefits most. I’ll go with the usual terrorist suspects and blame NATO for this.
But fuck both teams at this point. Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Jun 6 2023 4:12 utc | 260

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 4:00 utc | 258
So the mayor was wrong, still hard to believe anything anymore, but there is video of the explosion.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 6 2023 4:16 utc | 261

Re the dam: There is only one question of any significance. Given the current position of the Russian forces in the south, are they in any REAL – NOT hypothetical – threat from a flood from the dam? If they aren’t, then who gives a shit?
Answer the question with evidence or STFU.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 4:22 utc | 262

not sure why i post links sometimes, lol… i give the simplicius link earlier and the intel slava link and people are still wondering what is happening.. oh well.. nothing personal. i know..

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2023 4:25 utc | 263

and you can now read it on rt news, so i suppose people will start to believe it now.

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2023 4:27 utc | 264

Surovikin gave up an entire city because of the flood danger. Im sure Russian forces are safe.
The civilians tho on both sides. Thousands could be RIP

Posted by: Comandante | Jun 6 2023 4:27 utc | 265

RT is now saying that there WAS an explosion of the Kakhovka Dam.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 6 2023 4:28 utc | 266

The left side of the Dniepr is at a much lower altitude than the right side. If the Russian troops are too close to the river, they have to move very fast.
The crime benefits the ukronazis.

Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 6 2023 4:34 utc | 267

Nikopol head says that the water level dropping 15cm/h.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 4:38 utc | 268

Arne Hartmann # 14:13 utc | 28

Apply this to Marinka and Ugledar and see where Russia will counterattack.

Agreed, and if the Russian counterattack is bold and sustained it could be decisive. Perhaps that is why the delay as there are quiet NATO ‘promises’ to turn the air show into air cover.
One would have to possess a vast trove of trust in NATO of course;)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 6 2023 4:39 utc | 269

Also the Zaporozhia Power Plant could be in trouble.
Also the water supply to Crimea could be effected.
This is a war crime of the highest magnitude for which Ukraine will pay severely. I assure you.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 6 2023 4:40 utc | 270

McGovern spoke about a false flag (ZNPP) on latest Judging Freedom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maFQL6ta-tE
Guess what just happened – some people had a heads up?!

Posted by: digital dinosaur | Jun 6 2023 4:49 utc | 271

On the MoD missing leopard destruction…..two Brits soldiers died with the Storm Shadow missiles and whatever else was on the airbase that the RF obliterated….. perhaps a temporary Zoo for 12 leopards? Surely there’d be pics of at least one or two pelts from in country by now.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 6 2023 5:09 utc | 272

Simplicius provides a look at the modeling done last year about the extent of the flooding. IMO, Russia likely did its own risk assessment modeling. Personally, I need to see much better modeling, but will soon see the overall extent. Many variables are in play. The water issue for Crimea won’t happen, but a ZNPP cooling issue might arise, although IMO that’s overhyped. The water’s been flowing past the blown dam for almost 12 hours and the rate wasn’t as fast as it might have had the entire dam embankment been breeched. We shall see.
The armored/motorized infantry casualties reflect the massive number of their destroyed taxis since they were filled with troops when hit. We shall soon learn if these troops were a spearhead or merely a big club/battering ram. The key as Simplicius shows is the combat is happening at the very forward edge of the FEBA, not anywhere close to the actual first major defensive line. The next MoD report will be interesting.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 6 2023 5:10 utc | 273

headline at the top of the front page of The Guardian site:
“Russia-Ukraine war live: dam near Kherson destroyed by Russian forces, says Ukraine, sparking evacuations”
Shameless propaganda mouthpiece for the criminals in Kiev, Washington and London…

Posted by: tawharanui | Jun 6 2023 5:11 utc | 274

Simplicius confirms that Ukraine advance in Novodonetsk and Veshkuchne direction isn’t yet anywhere near the RU main defense line in the area. What was seen so far was mobile or elastic defense or harassment tactics, which seem to have halted the offensive.
The dam may either be a sign of desperation and frustration of the bogged and worn down first phase offensive, or it may have been pre-planned long ago with the attempt to assist crossing river.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 5:13 utc | 275

Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 6 2023 4:34 utc | 270
“If the Russian troops are too close to the river”
Are they? My limited understanding is that when Russia retreated to the eastern side of the Dnieper, then they proceeded to build at least three echelon levels, each separated by at least ten kilometers, or thirty kilometers or eighteen miles total worth of defenses (not counting whatever the hell forces and and defenses they have behind that).
Is that ACTUALLY going to be flooded? And IF it IS flooded, does that provide a barrier for both the Ukrainians and the Russians, depending on the depth of the water level over the area flooded (which we also don’t know)?
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 6 2023 4:40 utc | 273
“Could be”. “could be”…
Speculation.
Not to mention, PRESUMABLY the General Staff – AFTER Surovikin’s excuses for retreating from the far side of the river – PRESUMABLY have a clue that blowing up the dam could prove to be an “issue” to their forces at current locations.
Bottom line: Save the bullshit speculation until something actually turns out to be REAL.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 5:16 utc | 276

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 6 2023 5:10 utc | 276
Thanks. Some apparent facts from you rather than bullshit speculation. Appreciated.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 5:13 utc | 278
“with the attempt to assist crossing river.”
One wonders how a flooded river assists a fording operation by a major force, especially when under surveillance and covered by air power and artillery.
I recall the attempts to get near the NPP by crossing a reservoir just got a lot of Ukrainians killed.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 5:19 utc | 277

Zelensky has called for an emergency UN Security Council meeting for tomorrow morning regarding the Kakhovka Dam explosion.
I’m sure the meeting will be fair and impartial regarding the BAD Russians and the GOOD Ukrainians.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 6 2023 5:26 utc | 278

I don’t see how blowing the dam will make it any easier to cross the river as it will become saturated and there will still be a remnant river to cross. The UA has been waiting weeks for the ground to dry out and now they have dampened it again.
Still very little of what UA does makes much sense.

Posted by: ZimZum | Jun 6 2023 5:30 utc | 279

this would be the third time ukies cut crimea water supply

Posted by: hankster | Jun 6 2023 5:35 utc | 280

I expect more reports on the Russia MOD after this bombing of the Kakhovka Dam saying “command and observation” center destroyed.
At this rate of escalation/counter-offensive I expect Z will not have a military to command before the start of the NATO games on the 11th.
Where will the desperation lead next?
How many more have to die for the God Of Mammon cult? Hey King Chuck and Pope Frank! As titular heads of the God Of Mammon cult, please explain your anti-humanistic behavior over the past centuries and that we are seeing now to keep the curtain of secrecy from revealing the cult of you humans that rule the Western world.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 6 2023 5:37 utc | 281

Still very little of what UA does makes much sense.
ZimZum | Jun 6 2023 5:30 utc | 282
They and nato only want to destroy everything they can. UN also works for them, including China and their retarded piss plan. Thanks to a paralyzed Russian government and very bad military leadership, nato plan is working. I told you next elections in Russia will be very funny, if they don’t go military junta way this year

Posted by: rk | Jun 6 2023 5:46 utc | 282

@Konami | Jun 5 2023 22:04 utc | 176
Takk selv! That was interesting, please post any updates about this in relevant threads. I think this is indeed relevant to Russia/west relations, and that is pretty much what the Ukraine conflict is about.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 6 2023 5:51 utc | 283

Posted by: ZimZum | Jun 6 2023 5:30 utc | 282
Exactly. It makes no sense to flood an area you intend to attack, unless somehow the flooding will cause a barrier to enemy forces responding to where you actually do attack. Given Russian reserves all across eastern Ukraine (not to mention air power and stand-off weapons, which flooding has zero effect on), I find it hard to comprehend any benefit from this flood to anyone. It seems like just another desperation and/or PR move – blame the Russians. Whoop-de-do – how’s that going to help Ukraine any more than the Belgorod pin-pricks will?
Frankly, all I see is the usual crowd of people anxious to come up with ways Russia can lose the war based on all these Ukrainian desperation/PR moves.
As I’ve said repeatedly, one wonders who these people are actually supporting. I think we can guess.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 6:01 utc | 284

Dam busted. Site with multiple threads. Worth a scroll.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical
Some tweets:
>…Statement from the Ukrainian state nuclear power company Energoatom-
“the water level in the Kakhov reservoir is rapidly decreasing, which is an additional threat to the temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant”
>…Wider angle drone view of the Kakhovka dam looking south.
>…Additional footage from on top of the generator hall of the breached Kakhovka dam
>… the entrance to the Crimean Canal, which is most likely now flowing away from Crimea into the Dnipro.
>…flooding model from the article here
@karlof1
flood modelling 24 Oct 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRYWbVD5AE
[Usefulness score: 6/10]

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 6 2023 6:16 utc | 285

@Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 6 2023 2:42 utc | 231
“Americans were for the longest time a special breed.”
Yes, Americans were a special breed of barbaric genocidal psychopaths, and they still are.

Posted by: FVK | Jun 6 2023 6:23 utc | 286

@Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 6 2023 2:42 utc | 231
“Americans were for the longest time a special breed.”
Yes, Americans were a special breed of barbaric genocidal psychopaths, and they still are.

Posted by: FVK | Jun 6 2023 6:23 utc | 287

The Ukrainians blew up the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station tonight, damn they are completely crazy nerds. And as always, they will blame Russia for everything.
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/46695
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/46696
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/46704

Posted by: crazy chump | Jun 6 2023 6:24 utc | 288

@ Lex | Jun 5 2023 20:20 utc | 146
Not just the Biden Clan/Gang, the 2014 coup and genocide was launched by President Obama, Vice-President Biden, Secretary of State Clinton, and her State-Department toy-boy Sullivan, and the war and genocide and destruction of the RF were to be brought to a triumphant conclusion by Obama’s successor President Clinton . . . .
Also, all of the “Nazis, corruption and incompetence” involved are of course Ukraine’s and not America’s or its colonies’ . . . .
(And, of course, follow the money–Blackrock, Vanguard . . . .)

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 6 2023 6:28 utc | 289

CoCa:
The FSB reported on the plans of the GUR to prepare the detonation of a dirty bomb on the territory of Russia.
A service was created in the main intelligence directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, which included light-engine aircraft to supply saboteurs and bomb attacks on energy facilities.
Coordination of the use of this aircraft was entrusted to military unit No. 3449 with the conditional name “Legion”.
There, a plan was being developed for the delivery and laying of dirty bombs with timers – to undermine and render the area unusable for living.
Since the beginning of the year, this unit has carried out 5 sorties on the territory of Russia, two pilots were detained and confessed about the committed and planned terrorist attacks.

Posted by: dirty bomb | Jun 6 2023 6:34 utc | 290

IAEA – International Atomic Energy Agency ⚛️ @iaeaorg
57m
The IAEA is aware of reports of damage at #Ukraine’s Kakhovka dam; IAEA experts at #Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant are closely monitoring the situation; no immediate nuclear safety risk at plant.#ZNPP

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 6:36 utc | 291

From the OSINTTechnical thread referenced above…
OSINTtechnical @Osinttechnical
3h
Most of the land on the south bank of the river will be flooded. Between that and the upper reservoir turning into a mud flat, it basically ends any threat of a Ukrainian amphibious assault across the Dnipro.
From the referenced article:

The wave will be higher further upstream, and both speed and height of the wave is higher closer to the dam. It will take approximately 19 hours for the wave to hit Cherson City in this model, as the water spreads out over the lowlands and does not just rush forwards. The flooding will be much worse on the left side of the river (left/right side is when you are looking in the direction of the river flow, in this case towards the Black Sea – generally in this case the left side is the south or east side of the Dnipro). Most of Cherson City will not flood, but the harbour and the docklands including the island in the south of the city will be flooded…
This model is a worst case model and a simplification of reality as all models are.

This from the avowed anti-Russian author who already assumed Russia would be the culprit. Not to mention OSINTTechnical Twitter feed is also anti-Russian.
Translation: A tempest in a teapot. Zero evidence of any effect on Russian forces so far. If Kherson itself will not flood, how is Russia going to be affected on the other side of the river behind miles of fortifications? Pictures I see on the OSINTTechnical Twitter feed don’t impress me as to the level or size of flooding, except in a couple pics – which merely demonstrate how it makes no sense for Ukraine to benefit from this tactically except as a PR move to blame Russia.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 6:52 utc | 292

dirty bomb | Jun 6 2023 6:34 utc | 293
Exactly what I said above, in #285
Looking for military logic is something for dumb people to do. The real logic is destruction. As it started in 2014 with mindless attacks on Donbass.

Posted by: rk | Jun 6 2023 6:53 utc | 293

Botched my blockquote… This part is me…

This from the avowed anti-Russian author who already assumed Russia would be the culprit. Not to mention OSINTTechnical Twitter feed is also anti-Russian.
Translation: A tempest in a teapot. Zero evidence of any effect on Russian forces so far. If Kherson itself will not flood, how is Russia going to be affected on the other side of the river behind miles of fortifications? Pictures I see on the OSINTTechnical Twitter feed don’t impress me as to the level or size of flooding, except in a couple pics – which merely demonstrate how it makes no sense for Ukraine to benefit from this tactically except as a PR move to blame Russia.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 6 2023 6:54 utc | 294

The main consequence of destroying the dam is that the nuclear plant will be screwed without its water input and will have to be disabled for the time being. This is a recklessly criminal act, imho, because it’s the single action (barring direct hit on it) that increases the most a risk of nuclear catastrophe. Granted, it might not go this badly, with any luck, but still.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jun 6 2023 7:10 utc | 295

Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 6 2023 4:00 utc | 259
BBC news main story “Russia destroys Kakhova dam” according to Kiyv.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jun 6 2023 7:10 utc | 296

So the important point most people are overlooking at preasant is….
What’s the NATO game plan here ?
1. Blow up dam.
2 blame Russia for blowing up dam.
3. Use that false flag attack to justify NATOS / Ukraine’s next escalation.
From there on.. that’s what we should focus on !
Keep to steps ahead always.
My speculation would be…
NATO WILL throw out the rule book and become more hands on, out in the open involved in the conflict.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 6 2023 7:16 utc | 297

The water issue for Crimea won’t happen
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 6 2023 5:10 utc | 276

It definitely will.
This is likely not getting repaired this decade — they have stockpiled water over the last 16 months, but that will run out eventually.

Posted by: shadowbanned | Jun 6 2023 7:19 utc | 298

AG no. 220
They’ve pulled that article it seems:
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Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 6 2023 7:21 utc | 299

I think we can now forget about the Kherson front or potential crossings there. Ukraine side of Kherson is being evacuated as are their positions on the islands in the river. The flood will definitely affect much more the RU side of river (west side), as the land is lower.
Not convinced this is done for the purpose of easing crossing in Energodar (although it can’t be ruled out). It probably won’t drain the water completely, but just made any crossing shorter, for amphib or bridging equipment. One things for sure, it’s done for a false flag accusation.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 6 2023 7:23 utc | 300