How To Plant Propaganda: “Putin has been weakened. Russia is crumbling.”

June 27, 2023

On Sunday the U.S.Secretary of State went on four morning shows to play the same distinct melody over and over again:

Secretary Antony J. Blinken With Margaret Brennan of CBS Face the Nation

SECRETARY BLINKEN: And it was a direct challenge to Putin’s authority. So this raises profound questions. It shows real cracks. We can’t speculate or know exactly where that’s going to go. We do know that Putin has a lot more to answer for in the weeks and months ahead.
…
SECRETARY BLINKEN: These create more cracks in the Russian façade, and those cracks were already profound. Economically, militarily, its standing in the world – all of those things have been dramatically diminished by Putin’s aggression against Ukraine. He’s managed to bring Europe together. He’s managed to bring NATO together. He’s managed to get Europe to move off of Russian energy. He’s managed to alienate Ukrainians and unite Ukraine at the same time. So across the board this has been a strategic failure. Now you introduce into that profound internal divisions, and there are lots of questions he’s going to have to answer in the weeks ahead.

Secretary Antony J. Blinken With Chuck Todd of NBC Meet The Press

SECRETARY BLINKEN: … So I think we’ve seen more cracks emerge in the Russian facade. It is too soon to tell exactly where they go and when they get there. But certainly we have all sorts of new questions that Putin is going to have to address in the weeks and months ahead.
…
This is just the latest chapter in a book of failure that Putin has written for himself and for Russia. Economically, militarily, its standing in the world – all of things have plummeted. We have a united NATO that’s stronger than ever before, a Europe that is weaning itself off of Russian energy, Ukraine that Putin has managed to alienate and unite at the same time. Now, with trouble brewing from within, this, as I said, just adds more questions that he has to find answers for.

Secretary Antony J. Blinken With Dana Bash of CNN State of the Union

SECRETARY BLINKEN: But we can say this. First of all, what we’ve seen is extraordinary, and I think you see cracks emerge that weren’t there before …
…
We’ve seen this aggression against Ukraine become a strategic failure across the board. Russia is weaker economically, militarily. Its standing around the world has plummeted. It’s managed to get Europeans off of Russian energy. It’s managed to unite and strengthen NATO with new members and a stronger Alliance. It’s managed to alienate from Russia and unite together Ukraine in ways that it’s never been before. This is just an added chapter to a very, very bad book that Putin has written for Russia.

Secretary Antony J. Blinken With Jonathan Karl of ABC This Week

SECRETARY BLINKEN: But I think we can say this much: First, we’ve seen some very serious cracks emerge.
…
But we’ve seen, I think, lots of different cracks that have emerged in the conduct of this aggression, because everything Putin has tried to accomplish, the opposite has happened. Russia is weaker economically. It’s weaker militarily. Its standing in the world has plummeted. It’s managed to strengthen and unite NATO. It’s managed to alienate and unite Ukrainians. It’s managed to get Europe off of dependence on Russian energy.

In piece after piece, issue after issue, what Putin has tried to prevent, he’s managed to precipitate. And Russia’s standing is vastly diminished as a result. Now, add to that internal dissention. Again, we can’t speculate on where this goes. We have to remain and we are focused on Ukraine, but it certainly raises new questions that he’s going to have to address.

The very same (false) talking points, repeated over and over again, are a sure sign of lies and an organized propaganda campaign.

For the record. Progozhin was all alone in his mutiny attempt. Not one element of the Russian government or civil society joint him in his ride. So where are the cracks? There are none. Also Russia's military is now larger and better equipped then before the war. Russia's economy is fine and growing. Its standing in the world has increased.

But Blinken's propaganda works well because the U.S. media are trained to pick up any sheet of music an administration hands out and to sing its tune over and over again.

I could quote dozens of participants in that game to make that point. But the Washington Posts has made it easier for me when it asked eight of its columnists to comment on the issues. All but one, a neocon who wants to see more action, repeat Blinken's message: "Putin has been weakened. Russia is crumbling."

Opinion What happened in Russia — and what happens next? Our columnists weigh in.

David Von Drehle: Even failed coups have consequences

Putin evidently had no more confidence than Prigozhin as to the outcome of the clash. Rather than test the loyalty and strength of government forces to crush the uprising, the Russian leader grabbed the first exit he was offered — a sign of weakness that might invite another attempt. … The bad news: A weakened Russia has weakened leaders and is spinning out of control. Putin has taken his country into a disaster, and there is no one in sight to save it.

Max Boot: Prigozhin has made Putin’s weakness clear to everyone

Putin, has now had his own legitimacy undermined by the revolt of Prigozhin and his Wagner Group mercenaries. Whether the damage is fatal remains to be determined. … Even if Prigozhin is gone, the discontent he has revealed will remain an Achilles’ heel for Putin.

David Ignatius: After dodging the bullet, Putin will need to show he’s in control

Putin’s vulnerabilities were vividly on display last weekend, but so were his uncanny survival skills. He got inside Prigozhin’s conspiratorial plot and stopped it. … Putin will need to show that he’s in command now, after this near-death experience. That’s the bad news for Ukraine and Russia both.

Eugene Robinson: Putin is likely to survive this crisis

The revolt by the mercenary butcher Prigozhin did reveal Putin’s regime to be more brittle than it had appeared from afar.

Charles Lane: Prigozhin is the only Russian to publicly speak the truth

Vaclav Havel insisted that truth still exercised a mysterious, but latent, power.

It can unexpectedly “issue forth … in something visible: a real political act or event, a social movement, a sudden explosion of civil unrest, a sharp conflict inside an apparently monolithic power structure, or simply an irrepressible transformation in the social and intellectual climate,” Havel wrote. “And since all genuine problems and matters of critical importance are hidden beneath a thick crust of lies, it is never quite clear when the proverbial last straw will fall, or what that straw will be.”

Spy, oligarch, warlord — Prigozhin was an unlikely candidate to confirm Havel’s prophecy. But in a way, he did.

Jason Willick: Chances for escalation in Ukraine have gone up

Some observers might be overstating Putin’s weakness — he did suppress the mutiny quickly, after all — but the spectacle has clearly dented his image of control.

Josh Rogin: Prigozhin’s failed gambit is an opportunity for the West

Now that the Kremlin can no longer pretend Wagner is a separate entity, Russian government and defense officials must also be held accountable for Wagner’s worldwide crimes, which include credible allegations of mass murder, torture, rape and other atrocities.

Megan McArdle: Turmoil in Russia shows the fragility of illiberalism

Nominally, Putin controls a massive army, a substantial police force and a population that returned him to office in 2018 with a resounding 77 percent of the vote. But when push came to shove, those same folks were indifferent between him and a murderous warlord — or, at least, didn’t care enough about the distinction to risk getting shot. Putin survived, but the risk to his regime has risen now that it is clear how little actual support he has.

The overall tone: Putin did not fight the loon Prigozhin but found a peaceful solution. This shows that he is weak.

This bears a question. If eight columnists at one paper come to the very same (but false) conclusion, just issued in different words, why hire and pay all eight of them? Clearly, one would suffice.

Oh, that would show a lack diversity? The religious believe in individualism where all humans must differ – but for the opinions they are allowed to espouse?

Posted by on June 27, 2023 at 15:43 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Jun 27 2023 17:58 utc | 69
For one simple reason. ChatGPT is only “programmed” through 2021, so it doesn’t have access to any up-to-date news and information. As soon as that is rectified, I’m sure you will be correct. And it won’t make the slightest difference in what is “reported.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 27 2023 19:57 utc | 101

@98 Yes Russians are very mysterious people. They don’t like when their country is attacked and it doesn’t matter how much you insult them they remain suspicious. It’s unfathomable.

Posted by: dh | Jun 27 2023 19:57 utc | 102

Why is Blinken emphasizing “internal” Russian affairs?
Posted by: bill wolfe | Jun 27 2023 18:10 utc | 72
It’s an psycho tic, a clinical symptom of they/them/their dependence on mimicry to mask profound affective and “anti-social” disorders. For example, FMPRC policy and press responses to G7 demands to “support” Ukraine or bogus human right sanctions regime is always, NO “interfering in [INSERT DEVELOPING NATION] internal affairs.” This principle is a prominent feature of China’s position paper on the Political Settlement of the Ukraine Crisis. It infuriates NATO functionaries as much as “non-aligned” fin-mins asserting sovereign authority per se, local jurisdiction, and “legitimate security interests and concerns”. Review any G7 readout, summit communique, or transcript purporting diplomatic “engagement” or “outreach“—the latest “social work” cliché masking another round of G7 sanctions coercion and compliance “consultations”—you will not find the concept. In Kirby’s case, mitigating Ssssullivan’s failure to ingratiate Zelensk*’s peace formula in attendance of his Global Peace Summit, evoking “internal affairs” of other nations is undoubtedly a filip.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 27 2023 20:04 utc | 103

“If eight columnists at one paper come to the very same (but false) conclusion, just issued in different words, why hire and pay all eight of them? Clearly, one would suffice.”
Clearly NONE would suffice.
But bigger question, what is the gain? Send in more troops, maybe US troops, so they can get their asses kicked? Is Russia really in danger if NATO comes in? That seems to be what Russia is assuming. Are these propagandists scoring some “I told you so” points? Those will be gone this afternoon.
Besides, Russia is so weak and fubar and we still can’t beat them up. Yeeesh!
Only game I can see is total destruction of truth and authority. That is the psyop where people become incapable of decision and evaluation. Well, and looting, there is that. Of course, “authorities” are still lying about covid and the shots. Maybe they keep lying till everyone is bored and the next thing gets moved in.
And now it’s illegal to say bad things about our generals in the US? Oh please, sign me up. Milley and Austin doubleplus suck. It’s got to be a big psyop to destroy thinking itself.

Posted by: oracle | Jun 27 2023 20:21 utc | 104

Meanwhile back at the ranch…
Biden approval rating is at 42.5% and a near majority of voters from his own party don’t want him to run again.
But “Putin is weakened”…lol

Posted by: nwwoods | Jun 27 2023 20:22 utc | 105

@44 You going to need another head of lettuce, for Kamala
might be a Truss clone at best.
IOW’s Kamala has less intelligence than Joe

Posted by: Ggersh | Jun 27 2023 20:28 utc | 106

@44 was meant to be @43 and Paul Greenwood

Posted by: Ggersh | Jun 27 2023 20:29 utc | 107

“If eight columnists at one paper come to the very same (but false) conclusion, just issued in different words, why hire and pay all eight of them? Clearly, one would suffice.”
How else are you going to get all those diversity boxes ticked?

Posted by: Henry Moon Pie | Jun 27 2023 20:38 utc | 108

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 27 2023 15:45 utc | 1
“Prigozhin’s remaining Wagner will move to newly built bases in Belarus”
Once again, there is zero evidence of those Belarus bases. Apparently, if you believe the Guardian, Lukashenko has offered Wagern an “abandoned” base “if they want it.”
Belarusian leader confirms arrival of exiled Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/27/belarus-exiled-wagner-chief-yevgeny-prigozhin-russia-ukraine

Speaking in front of the country’s officials, Lukashenko said that he had offered Wagner troops an “abandoned base” in Belarus.Lukashenko denied media reports that said Belarus was constructing bases for Wagner soldiers, but added: “If they [Wagner’s soldiers] want, we will place them.”

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 27 2023 20:39 utc | 109

Putin wins again. I just don’t think most people do not realize that with the way Putin dealt with this narrative prone gambit by Prigozhin,nuclear war, at least the potential for thermal nuclear war openly advocated by really stupid US politiIan’s, was understood and avoided. This is the biggest advantage Putin has over the bankrupt west and it’s “experts” ; he wants to save humanity while the Biden clan wants to loot it and push it to an extinction event.

Posted by: WT Bsker | Jun 27 2023 20:40 utc | 110

@ Arch Bungle | Jun 27 2023 18:47 utc | 83
thanks.. i agree..

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2023 20:48 utc | 111

@ karlof1 | Jun 27 2023 18:19 utc | 77
You’re very welcome!
On the state of play as I see it – and I’ve been tuned since Maidan [when Nuland really p1ssed me off for destabilizing Europe – h/t to Consortium news coverage] – there will be NO negotiation – RF has set the agenda and the goals of the SMO and will complete it. How? We simply wait and see but from the RF perspective there is little point in any negotiation with the likes of Blinken, Nuland-Kagan et al.
I also suspect that this is also how Chairman Xi sees it.
The hegemon is a bully and President Putin has stood up to the bully and we observe that the bully has very brittle cowardly balls.
Europe has been played and will be a lot poorer for it. Reality.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 27 2023 21:01 utc | 112

One of the most humiliating things for the Neocons must be the fact that there is no need for their signature “shock and awe” so Russia prevails on this war. Cowards and bullies like to sucker punch countries and punish civilian populations in the first 72 hours of war. How embarrassing for them!

Posted by: D Axe | Jun 27 2023 21:01 utc | 113

dh no. 102
I like your sense of humour.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 27 2023 21:07 utc | 114

To me, the propaganda blast to establish “Putin is weak” is one leg of the table they’re trying to build. The others involve Ukrainian shenanigans at ZNPP and the Blumenthal-Graham “false flag incentive” resolution in the US senate. I’m afraid the spooks learned their lesson from the failure of the white helmet chemical weapons attacks in Syria to trigger further intervention, as the obvious question that even the barely-informed observer had was “Why would Assad pull out the sarin now that he’s winning?”. So now, if they get the opportunity, they’ll address any similar objections by pointing to their own propaganda to say “see, everyone knew Putin was losing, that’s why he went nuclear!”
I just hope ZNPP has a lot of security layers, and Russian intel’s human sources keep coming through like they have been so far.

Posted by: Anders Rho | Jun 27 2023 21:17 utc | 115

Don Firineach | Jun 27 2023 21:01 utc | 112–
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I agree that what will be served is unconditional surrender with Russia determining how the artificial state of Ukraine is dismantled. Hmm… I seem to recall having written those words before.
Again, with the propaganda message being what it is, how to explain the need for NATO to go All-in to aide Ukraine? IMO, we have the Neoliberalcons painting themselves into another corner.
I think we need a thread about how those of us under Neoliberalcon rule can extricate ourselves and regain our freedom.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 27 2023 21:48 utc | 116

If we believe Lukashenko (and he sounds credible), it was him who averted the disaster. There is a German translation of his story about the course of incidents:
https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/2023/praesident-lukaschenko-im-wortlaut-ueber-seine-verhandlungen-mit-prigoschin/
German to English should work fine.
I agree to Babka ( Russian: Daddy 🙂 as the Russians like to call Luka). Killing Prigo would have been a disaster, destroying the Wagners an even bigger one.
As to Prigo’s foolish feud with Shoigu: It developped naturally. Shoigu is an excellent organizer, he took over the MOD in 2011/12, after his fanatically neoliberal and corrupt predecessor Serdjukov had messed up everything and nearly destroyed the Russian military. Shoigu not only rebuilt and modernized it to the second powerful military worldwide (see globalfirepower.com), but achieved that with a budget slightly higher than the German defense budget with their crumbling clown army, and lower that the combined budgets of the 17 US secret services. From 2016 on, his budget was cut 5 times in series.
Though, the Russian navy even gets 44 new vessels this year, Russia is the power with the most developped hypersonic missiles, and lots of innovations in tanks, artillery, and, after sluggish start, also UAV. Russian EW is the best in world so is AA.
Of course, such an organizer is terribly avaricious, and not always right to do so. Certainly he is hated by all army commanders. The problem arises when a single commander is as forceful and independent from command chain as Prigo was, and so willing to go into PR wars, often with ruthless lies and slander. As Shoigu is no softie either, this could only lead to a crash.
Fortunately, the damage was low (rip the dead pilots and wagnerites), and the Russian society remained stable for now.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 27 2023 22:01 utc | 117

Listened to the Corbetreport interview with Rolo Slavskiy.
https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1813-wtf-just-happened-in-russia-with-rolo-slavskiy/
Noticed that he did have some outright lies there, namely at the beginning that he thinks Russia only sent border guards and OMON police forces toward Kiev and they left all their equipment there.
He also criticized Shoigu a lot. Slavskiy thinks Shoigu is a relic from Soviet era, and was made powerful through the help of the media, and Shoigu is actually responsible for the failed and stalemated SMO.
On the other hand, he did make some logically sounding arguments. He said that the Prighozin event was partially Putin’s fault, since he should have mediated the problem between MOD and Wagner. Also he thinks Prighozin is correct in a lot of issues he complained about. He said that Putin is weak and Lukashenko is strong. He thinks Putin is afraid of doing real decisions. But the truth may be Putin just tries/has to balance between issues and take a very neutral stance, sometimes which produces least possible harm.
He also seems to ignore the battlefield realities and doesn’t seem to understand the original reason for SMO. He thinks that the stated goal of de-nazification is BS, when it’s clearly demonstrable that Ukraine is pretty much full of nazi ideology and whole nation state based on it.
It’s hard to say where he is coming from, but it seems most of his arguments don’t hold ground, but he could have a lot of valid arguments too. He could be generalizing a lot from what he knows of the Russia and Soviet Union of 1990s and earlier and thinks Russia is still stuck in 1990. But the point is perhaps there is some problem with Shoigu? Who knows…
One thing everyone can probably agree on that the SMO is existential. He also ignored the fact that pretty much no one sided with Prigozhin.
All in all it’s a pretty interesting interview, if you want to here arguments from the other side of the arena too, guess it’s always useful.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 27 2023 22:24 utc | 118

yesbored | Jun 27 2023 16:07 utc | 13

but there is defeat in his eyes now.

I have noticed that “reading into Putin’s eyes” is gaining momentum as a preferred method of finding answers in the field of political science, pushing Bibliomancy to the sidelines. May I, however, suggest Scatomancy instead, since this technique has a more solid empirical basis. Its material has certain biochemical properties and one can take it to the lab for testing. Or on the tongue for tasting.

Posted by: Nomad | Jun 27 2023 22:38 utc | 119

Some Australian comedians have noticed that the state broadcaster might be sticking to a particular narrative: The Cheap Seats

Posted by: PDidds | Jun 27 2023 22:42 utc | 120

Posted by: Nomad | Jun 27 2023 22:38 utc | 119
You win the thread.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 27 2023 22:45 utc | 121

Posted by: Nomad | Jun 27 2023 22:38 utc | 119 i remember when war criminal Bush Jr. looked into Putin’s eyes and determined that he had a good soul.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 27 2023 22:46 utc | 122

@ Nomad | Jun 27 2023 22:38 utc | 119
you ought to post more often, lol! we definitely need more ”serious” humour around here..

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2023 22:56 utc | 123

@ dh gets runner up mention.. thanks dh!

Posted by: james | Jun 27 2023 22:57 utc | 124

psychohistorian 22
What about the 6 million CIA bung?
Do the trolls really imagine 6 million would buy the entire Russian continent?
Somebody has to buy those lottery tickets, don’t they?

Posted by: Giyane | Jun 27 2023 22:59 utc | 125

To my mind mostly people in Russia relate to this situation with humor. I’m Russian who lives in Moscow and can describe our perception. We are discussing this problem with many people towards us.
I really don’t know the truth, but for me it looks like performance.
And it can be called stress-test for our society which shows people’s supporting to president. Situation on streets was very quiet and peaceful.

Posted by: Selenia19 | Jun 27 2023 23:00 utc | 126

“The 500 km long dick of Prighozin”?
I think there’s a better than even possibility that it will soon measure about 5 millimeters, cut down to size by the FSB. I cannot believe that Putin’s government will long allow this loudmouthed criminal guilty of high treason and murder get away unscathed.

Posted by: Jack Gordon | Jun 27 2023 23:00 utc | 127

I fully agree with the Administration. One trillion more and we will bury Russia, and with few more trillions more, China too.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 27 2023 23:00 utc | 128

Putin resolving a messy situation without bloodshed was a clear manifestation of his calm mode of thinking and acting. It’s only fools in the west who interpret his actions as signs of weakness. Putin is keeping his eye on the ball, which is to say that he is focused on prosecuting the war against NATO. It could hardly be going better for the Russian side.

Posted by: Rob | Jun 27 2023 23:04 utc | 129

karlof1@116……how do we regain our freedom? Follow the Russian lead, denazify the western governments that are under the authoritarian WEF Nazi rule. That’s where it starts. But for me, rather than follow the French to the chopping block, far too many innocents die, the Irish formula of Boycotting, either personal or collective, is far safer for the average citizen.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 27 2023 23:05 utc | 130

Posted by: danf51 | Jun 27 2023 18:35 utc | 82
Enough of the coup. What really happened will leak out or be hinted at by other events.
What happens now? In some strange way, Ukraine still appears to hold the initiative. Now they are pushing the focus onto ZNPP. Again, the Russian plan seems to be wait and see what Ukraine does and then react. Thus far that seems to work for them in the war of attrition.
But at some point, the attrition battle ends and you have to take the initiative to impose your will on the enemy.
=======================================
As far as I can tell, one of the main reasons for the ‘coup’ you wisely advise us to ignore is precisely because what you then recommend is NOT happening. Indeed, I gather many lament that Putin’s tendency is always reactive, that he never takes the initiative. Dugan’s piece yesterday made that exact argument, though without framing it as having anything to do with Putin’s character per se.
Either there really is something to it and Putin needs to wake up a bit more, or he is deliberately prosecuting a slow attrition approach and for whatever reason doesn’t want to spell it out. Assuming Prigo’s frustration was real and not Reality TV (hard to tell in 2023), those on the ground bleeding and dying aren’t in the loop either and believe that the wrong strategy has been chosen.
In a statement released earlier (today?), Progozhin spelled out that part of the intention of the stunt was to demonstrate how rapidly forces can move and how rapidly, therefore, they could wrap up the entire SMO taking the whole country if they wanted. So what he did was as much demonstration as protest. I do not believe Putin has addressed this concern to the public at large yet, most of whom presumably trust that he knows what he’s doing and are not overly concerned, but many of whom would still much prefer the military part of the geopolitical chess match to be over already so no more of their boys need to die.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 27 2023 23:23 utc | 131

Piotr Berman no. 128
“I fully agree with the Administration. One trillion more and we will bury Russia, and with few more trillions more, China too.”
And eventually with a few more trillions “the whole world and outerspace and the Universe and everything”.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 27 2023 23:26 utc | 132

“If eight columnists at one paper come to the very same (but false) conclusion, just issued in different words, why hire and pay all eight of them? Clearly, one would suffice.”
ChatGPT?

Posted by: alfeu* | Jun 27 2023 23:32 utc | 133

@ ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 27 2023 23:26 utc | 132 who didn’t tell how many trillions those new found aliens will cost to control…..grin
With fiat money, the sky is the limit…..ad astra!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 27 2023 23:44 utc | 134

I like Kommersant.ru to translate Mr Market, strana.ua for subversives, and Readovka.news for mundane regional reflection. Readovka also posted correspondents in RFAF units from the beginning.
• Putin signed a law on the possibility of calling convicts to serve under a contract (24.06.23)
• Construction of camps for PMC “Wagner” started in Belarus (26.06.23)
• Wagner Group centers reopened in Tyumen, Novosibirsk and Krasnodar Territory
• The US State Department announced a hunt for Prigozhin (btw, don’t be fooled by Kirby-content. Prigohzhin has quite a deep sanctions jacket)
• Lukashenka spoke about the details of negotiations with PMC Wagner and Russia in order to resolve the conflict between them (This is the longest article I’ve seen in a while. Such focus! speaks to readers’ interest in melodrama.)

The President of Belarus advised Putin not to rush to take decisive action for the time being, despite the fact that Prigozhin does not pick up the phone. … Lukashenko said that Yevgeny Prigozhin willingly communicated with the President of Belarus, although he expressed himself emotionally. “Yes, he is such, you know, a heroic guy, but he was pressured and influenced by those who led the assault squads and saw these deaths. And in this situation, having jumped out from there to Rostov, in such a half-mad state, I am conducting this dialogue with him , ”the head of state recalled the details….

Now, you’ve got feathers for your telegram caps.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 27 2023 23:49 utc | 135

Posted by: ian | Jun 27 2023 23:54 utc | 136

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 27 2023 23:23 utc | 131
The long SMO attrition approach is partially based on allowing time for building and consolidation of the non-western multi-polarized world. It is basically the life work of Putin and they never wanted this war with Ukraine, but Nato finally forced them into it.
Absorbing Ukraine, especially a torn and broken Ukraine is a massive poison pill and drain. Russia already said that they won’t be paying for Ukraine excluding the areas that ended up joining them. The rest will probably be de-populated.
The west will continue using Ukraine as a platform against Russia, which guarantees that pretty much the entire country will be consumed by war.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 28 2023 0:00 utc | 137

I think we need a thread about how those of us under Neoliberalcon rule can extricate ourselves and regain our freedom.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 27 2023 21:48 utc | 116
Ahh. The BIG question?
First, educate myself on the reality of the odious nature of late stage financialized capitalism and its hold over the consciousness of the servile farmed masses; second, avoid odious debt; third, communicate this reality as best one can to others [not easy]; and take it from there as the future is always open …
Moving from this particular human to the system level ….
…. the present enemy is the $ ……. it fu€ks up the glorious wonder of the human Lifeworld and enslaves its individualized inhabitants most of whom remain gloriously unaware of the fact that they are in a neocon-blackrocked Matrix …
Adorno’s despair is not an option ……… red pill time …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 28 2023 0:00 utc | 138

I find the coverage of all this amusing. Everybody’s out to get Russia but… Russia’s economy is growing. You can’t say that for Europe. Virtually all the sanctions have backfired on the US/EU. Contrary to Blynkin’s illusions, Russia united “The West” and that’s it. Nobody else is signing up for the American parade. The US is continuing to try to get the rest of the world a year and a half later and is getting nowhere. It does US credibility no good to claim that Russia is being isolated when clearly the exact opposite is happening.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Jun 28 2023 0:14 utc | 139

It’s hard to overstate my thanks to you B for posting this piece on Propaganda with the most mealy-mouthed occupant of a major U.S. government position, Antony Blinken as Secretary of State, leading the charge. They are thrilled over the experiences facing Russia and Wagner. After all they otherwise might have to own up to the dreadful beating the Ukrainian military took during the recent attempt at the counteroffensive. You know, the one that the Zelensky propaganda machine touts as forward advances at every contested location.

Posted by: Don Durivan | Jun 28 2023 0:17 utc | 140

This altercation is but one of the many reasons I believe the whole affair was scripted…a STING… against whom we have yet to discern…
INDY
================================
In Thierry Meyssan’s latest:
“The Russian secret services, which had been watching all the protagonists and keeping a low profile from the outset, had the traitors who had unmasked themselves in Belarus and Russia arrested in flagrante delicto.”
I find the rest of the article a little confusing. For example:
“During the day, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, who had been telephoned by his Russian counterpart, contacted Yevgeny Prigozhin and persuaded him to abandon his plans and return his troops to the front. Vladimir Putin gave his word that the rebel would respect the agreement he had signed. The latter announced that he was giving up on overthrowing Shoïgu and Gerasimov.” (Putin gave HIS word that the rebel would respect the agreement? What?)
There are many sentences like that leaving the reader not quite sure what is being said. Maybe it’s a translation issue. In any case, the first quote is quite clear: traitors were flushed out (which has always been one of my favorite two explanations). IF Prigo was doing a stunt in coordination with the State for that purpose (given that Wagner is often reported to be a GRU operation and Prigo is not their tactical commander so frankly this is quite possible) then this traitor-flushing business was likely the main point. Why? Perhaps because an offense is coming soon for which they want tight operational security. If it was NOT a stunt but a real revolt, then no doubt the GRU embeds gave Putin et alia a heads-up and Intel used it to flush out traitors. Either way, worked out well.
One small takeaway is: if Prigo is in the oligarch class as many say (a billionaire middle man funneling govt monies into private sector transactions like nearly all billionaires) then, applying Confucian State Analysis 101, the quality of that person says something about the quality of the overall state given that he has risen into the top echelons. Looks to me like they still have work to do on the domestic front to have the best and brightest rising rather than letting shysters like Prigo rise so high. Small point, maybe, but…

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 0:25 utc | 141

Thanks B, I get where you’re coming from, but you’re not doing yourself any favours by reading all that propaganda.
Maybe you can help enlighten quite a few clowns @ the bar by doing a deep dive with the key players about who does what.
Shoigu is a political appointment. He deals with the politics of running the defence establishment, streamlining/removing legislative obstacle if required. This is not something he can do with a wave of his wand, but through the acceptable procedures and protocols of the Government. There is a limit to his authority and capability. His real job for the SMO is to understand what is needed by the military and to relate that to the CinC for approval.
Gerasimov is CoC Staff. His job is to keep everyone in line and stop pissing contest between intraservices, so that the military objectives that the “Stavka” (using a Russian word to sound authoritative) have formulated, relayed & approved by CinC are achieved.
Please explain to me like you would a three year old, why these 2 men should be replaced when the RuAF has successfully destroyed 3 NATO formed, trained and armed Armies and reorganised the entire SMO and order of battle formations successfully?

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 28 2023 0:29 utc | 142

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 28 2023 0:00 utc | 137
The long SMO attrition approach is partially based on allowing time for building and consolidation of the non-western multi-polarized world. It is basically the life work of Putin and they never wanted this war with Ukraine, but Nato finally forced them into it.
====================================
Yes. But I understand that many in Russia are frustrated with the long, drawn-out approach. Remember, their boys are dying and getting wounded. I gather – from admittedly scattered reports since I don’t follow this closely – that it’s mainly the patriot, loyalist types who are frustrated this way. I pasted in Dugan’s latest piece from yesterday in which he clearly argues that it’s time to stop worrying so much about rules and to rapidly sieze Victory, that Victory makes its own rules. So there are differences of opinion about this.
Put it another way: If the SMO were over, although RF wouldn’t be chewing up what’s left of European/NATO inventory and Ukraine’s men, the geopolitical tectonics will continue and they are the prize. I’m neither military nor head of State but I think Putin’s slow attritive approach is wise and effective. Sounds like you think that too. But I quite understand that others feel differently.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 0:33 utc | 143

ZH article: “Lukashenko Confirms Wagner Leader’s Arrival In Belarus, Urged Putin Not To Kill Him”
In which is a video of Lukashenko explaining how Putin was ready to wipe the rebels out but Lukashenko talked him down and then got both Prigo and Putin to agree on the Belarus plan.
That sounds highly implausible to me but it does give Putin a valid reason for not wiping Prigo off the face of the planet which, if this was a bona fide uprising, he most definitely should have done. At the very least clapped him in irons.
So now I’m fairly sure that GRU knew about this all along and this entire thing was mainly done to clean up the end of Wagner and flush out any bad actors therein etc. It doesn’t really matter, but this story by Lukeshenko strikes me as highly implausible.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 0:43 utc | 144

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 28 2023 0:29 utc | 142
Correction
Gerasimov is CoC Staff…..is CoC GS

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 28 2023 0:58 utc | 145

Putin needs to get off his ass. As most can see, he’s aged a few years this week. Either win or waltz sideways till you lose. Time.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jun 28 2023 1:02 utc | 146

Prigozhin is a mercenary. A mercenary sell to the highest bidder. That is all.
Posted by: Passerby | Jun 27 2023 16:11 utc | 18
———————————————————-
What you say is true, but did Prigozhin actually accept the thirty pieces of silver, or did he take it to Jesus and say look at what the Satan of the US has offered me for your ass? Was Judas a traitor or a necessary part of the plan?
Just asking?

Posted by: Ed | Jun 28 2023 1:39 utc | 147

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 0:43 utc | 144
I thought the same. Also the stuff about the other “coup” that was supposedly about to go down in Belarus. All very strange.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 28 2023 1:39 utc | 148

Posted by: Nomad | Jun 27 2023 22:38 utc | 119
LOL

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 28 2023 1:40 utc | 149

Posted by: danf51 | Jun 27 2023 18:35 utc | 82
“But at some point, the attrition battle ends, and you have to take the initiative to impose your will on the enemy.”
———————————————
Really, why? If you kill more of them then they do of you? What is your point?

Posted by: Ed | Jun 28 2023 2:00 utc | 150

I thought the same. Also the stuff about the other “coup” that was supposedly about to go down in Belarus. All very strange.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 28 2023 1:39 utc | 148
———————————-
The Pols and NATO may have second thoughts about a Belarusian coup now that Wagner is there.

Posted by: Ed | Jun 28 2023 2:03 utc | 151

Quote from a Reuters article today.
“President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that the finances of Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s catering firm would be investigated after his mutiny, saying Wagner and its founder had received almost $2 billion from Russia in the past year.”
You don’t need to kill Priggy. He’s going to jail for financial crimes. More grist for RSH’s mill that this was all about money. (A “salary dispute.”)

Posted by: Billy the Texas Red | Jun 28 2023 2:12 utc | 152

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 0:43 utc | 144
——————————————————
Weed out the traitor’s and the bad apples and reorganize a new force sufficient to save Lukashenko and Belarus from the “color revolution” planned by the CIA / NED for the next election.

Posted by: Ed | Jun 28 2023 2:12 utc | 153

You don’t need to kill Priggy. He’s going to jail for financial crimes. More grist for RSH’s mill that this was all about money. (A “salary dispute.”)
Posted by: Billy the Texas Red | Jun 28 2023 2:12 utc | 152
—————————————————————–
Of course, it all sounds logical, but I think they have better and bigger plans for Prigo and his followers in Belarus. RHS needs to recognize that those 6 billion dollars means nothing to Putin or Russia because the struggle with the US /NATO is existential for both Russia and Belarus.

Posted by: Ed | Jun 28 2023 2:21 utc | 154

One has to give the French some credit … Enjoy! I certainly did.
JOHN KERRY SKEWERED BY FRENCH TV HOST AFTER CONDEMNING PUTIN INVASION: “WHY ISN’T BUSH JUDGED IN THE SAME WAY?”
https://southfront.org/john-kerry-skewered-by-french-tv-host-after-condemning-putin-invasion-why-isnt-bush-judged-in-the-same-way/

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 28 2023 2:32 utc | 155

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 27 2023 23:49 utc | 135
“Construction of camps for PMC “Wagner” started in Belarus (26.06.23)”
Once again, bullshit story. Lukashenko himself denied it today. He did offer Wagner soldiers the use of an “abandoned camp” if they want it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 28 2023 2:33 utc | 156

Posted by: Ed | Jun 28 2023 2:21 utc | 154
“RHS needs to recognize that those 6 billion dollars”
And you have certainty about Prigozhin having $6 billion how?
And I – and Lukasheno – have debunked the “Belarus building bases” repeatedly. It’s a bullshit story from one unreliable source repeated by other sources.
Bullshit. If Putin says Wagner is being investigated, it is. End of story.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 28 2023 2:37 utc | 157

10 minutes of Lukashenko mauling the BBC Enjoy
https://twitter.com/upholdreality/status/1673340015252848643

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 28 2023 2:59 utc | 158

What kind of billion dollar “private citizen” runs the most lethal mercenary army unit of ex-cons and has the sack to mutiny against Putin and the Russian military during the biggest war since WW2?

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 3:10 utc | 159

@ Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 3:10 utc | 159
a split personality one who is suffering from too much war madness? typical gemini like trump?

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 3:12 utc | 160

Apparently Karines exasperated press conference gasps and accusing eye movements were not having the desired effect so the Richie Cunningham of Intel was brought in, Kirby. He must of said 25 times. “This was a internal Russioan affair we dont meddle” in regard to the Prigozin mutiny.
Saddam gotta go
Qudaffi gotta go
Assad gotta go
And yes as mentione by a press member Biden “Putins gotta go”
So kirby. Howe about the Nuland F*** the EU phone call where she is choosing the new rulers of Ukraine a week prior to Maidan? Is that non meddling too?
Then the topic turned to concern over “instability” in one of the two largest nuclear armed countries in the world. In just glad that Russia isnt 125% of GDP in debt with sovereign countries shunning its treasury bonds like late stage syphilis. That could make a country unpredictable and go rogue!

Posted by: Klownswirl | Jun 28 2023 3:43 utc | 161

I am wondering what audience the commentators in the WaPo and talking heads on TV are playing to. People in Russia? As if they pay attention to what Blinken says. I doubt the Russian leadership cares very much what these people say.
Posted by: ian | Jun 27 2023 23:54 utc | 136
——————————————–
I’ve asked myself the same question before. It’s clear that they either think we’re drooling idiots, or don’t care much at all that we don’t believe them. But, we aren’t really the people they need to convince. I don’t think they even really care what congress thinks either, as they’d be dependable to go along with the blob once NATO regulars started coming back in coffins. My guess is that there are still some US military brass who have a good idea of how things would turn out, and are still pumping the brakes on WWIII behind closed doors. Unfortunately, their information diet probably has a lot of low grade fare served by the Post and NYT.

Posted by: Anders Rho | Jun 28 2023 3:57 utc | 162

Scorpion 134
In life it’s always a mistake to do what your ex wants you to do. Putin has just divorced from the West, because of their incurable hubris and arrogance. Nothing on earth is going to make him follow a shock and awe formula, whether its Biden’s “”” Putin’s aggression “”” or Prigojhin’s demonstration of military prowess.
I absolutely respect President Putin’s single- mindedness in only pursuing de-nazification, and de-Nato-ification. My MP, Liam Byrne, Lab. , wallows like a pig in muck in Nazi mockery, that the more Putin wants Peace, the less he’s going to get it. PURE NAZI INSANITY emanating from “””” moderate “”” Wet Socialism.
Those who define themselves as moderate socialists are far more die-hard opposed to Real Socialism as manifested by China and Russia, than the exponents of liberal Capitalism.
Putin is not dog-whistling against Ukrainians, like Blinken and Byrne are dog- whistling against Russians.
Nazism grew out of National Socialism. And Nazism , we now now for certain, aspired to Zionist , self-hating racism. Zelensky is Jewish, friend of Khazar Nutjobyahoo.
You don’t ever follow the advice of your ex. If only because you just at vast cost to yourself in treasure and family good will, extricated yourself from her domination.
Prigojhin made a big mistake if he thought Putin was warming to neo-liberal ways of doing things. He has kicked her out and placed himself under the protection of President Xi.
I love him for doing that. Not least because the West is jacking up interest rates, and thereby increasing inflation. When in a hole, stop digging. But they know nothing, poor things.

Posted by: Giyane | Jun 28 2023 4:44 utc | 163

A reminder about what we’re fighting against, if such is needed.
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230627/how-ukraine-torture-sites-became-new-norm-1111504260.html

Posted by: Billy the Texas Red | Jun 28 2023 5:01 utc | 164

I think people are too preoccupied with whether Putin is strong or weak, re: March for Justice.
Russia has this crisis – it had to be a crisis to have Moscow declare a state of emergency and mobilize city defenses. They lost six helicopters. BUT… they resolved it. Border guards didn’t fight Wagner.
Mostly by talking. Videos on telegram about the future of our country. Lukashenko working the phones…
They figured it out without crazy ground fighting. A peaceful resolution. And Prighozin didn’t get asassinated in the middle of the night.
Damn, if that isn’t the more civilized way to end things. People talk about “crushing” rebels – but every FBI negotiator tried to end standoffs without shooting. It’s always better to end things peacefully.
I saw powerful Russian men resolve a serious problem without unnecessary violence. I think it speaks to something virtuous about Russian civilization – don’t know if that virtue is stability, patriotism, pragmatism or something else.

Posted by: GoFast | Jun 28 2023 5:15 utc | 165

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 3:12 utc | 160
I was thinking Russian Mafia.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 5:47 utc | 166

Posted by: young | Jun 27 2023 16:07 utc | 12
Christoforou is an absolutely emptyhead, the mascot. He is there for putting up the site, merch, etc. Mercouris does the analysis.

Posted by: v | Jun 28 2023 6:38 utc | 167

It seems to me that (1) following Sun Tzu and (2) considering that Russia was looking strong after the failure of Ukrainian counter-offensive, then it follows that (3) Russia must somehow make her enemies think that she is weak. If my take is correct, events over the weekend achieved this aim (as well as other relevant aims), as reported here by the host.

All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 28 2023 7:02 utc | 168

We’re getting the same thing in South Africa, the narrative being “The evil guy who always lies is telling the truth while Putin is wrong and weak and bad”.
When the enemy appears divided there might be some grounds for optimism if you are winning the war, as in the Allied response to the July Plot in 1944 in Nazi Germany. However, Blinken and his clones are much more like Hitler and Goebbels wetting themselves because Roosevelt had died just as the first Russian shells were hitting the centre of Berlin.
I mean, the fact that Ukraine didn’t even try to exploit what seemed to be a crisis (though it wasn’t) suggests that they have shot their bolt a long time ago.
By the way, a number of those journalists b cites there are people who crazily supported the Iraq war and all subsequent NATO aggressions. The fact that such pitiful, successively falsified hacks are still taken seriously is a mammoth indictment of American media (were one needed).

Posted by: MFB | Jun 28 2023 7:56 utc | 169

More of it … Democracy DEMocracy DEMOCRACY ….
Tucker Carlson Talks Zelensky And Biden’s Successor After He ‘Drops Out’
[12 mins]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDXOLXM3b4

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 28 2023 9:32 utc | 170

The propaganda is overwhelming and public opinion is being manipulated in order to gain acceptance of NATO boots on the ground i.e. conventional WW3. Meanwhile Ukraine is being destroyed and Europe’s economy is screwed up and will get worse.

Posted by: Kaiama | Jun 28 2023 10:21 utc | 171

I think we need a thread about how those of us under Neoliberalcon rule can extricate ourselves and regain our freedom.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 27 2023 21:48 utc | 116
…………..
Marry intention to imagination and vice versa. Freedom is an attitude not an external condition. Or it is a state of mind into which one can deliberately shift.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 11:09 utc | 172

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 28 2023 7:02 utc | 167
BINGO!
That was my first thought when it happened. Then I indulged in puzzle figuring outing.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 11:15 utc | 173

Posted by: Giyane | Jun 28 2023 4:44 utc | 163
Scorpion 134
In life it’s always a mistake to do what your ex wants you to do. Putin has just divorced from the West, because of their incurable hubris and arrogance. Nothing on earth is going to make him follow a shock and awe formula, whether its Biden’s “”” Putin’s aggression “”” or Prigojhin’s demonstration of military prowess.
===============================
You make all good points. But did you read Dugan’s piece exhorting Victory over rule-following when dealing with those who don’t play by rules? I don’t think he was advocating a neocon approach necessarily, rather creating one’s own reality versus letting others do it for you and then responding.
https://www.geopolitika.ru/en/article/no-more-threats-time-respond
I pasted it in in another thread. It’s a short article, well worth reading. Here’s the last half:

To proceed properly, we need to build a more realistic call-and-response system. Before using TNWs and SNWs (tactical and strategic nuclear weapons), there is still a broad spectrum of possibilities for escalating conflict with conventional weapons. And many registers have not yet been exploited. This stems from the rules. The rules do not allow it. But if the rules only exist for one side, and simply do not exist for the West, let alone for the Kiev obsessives, then it is no longer about rules.
A language that only one participant in the dialogue understands serves no purpose. After all, no one inside the country needs or understands these rules.
Simply threatening that we will respond if necessary, and that we have what we need, is clearly not enough. We have to respond. If we have what we need, now is the time. But if we have nothing, we can do it – do it or find something. Preferably difficult, targeted and very frightening. There is no cure for anger. We must proceed from this.
Crimea will be attacked and so will our old territories. They are already attacking.
We will not reach the West yet. Still the question of the TNWs and NSNWs. This is the last topic. Not the penultimate.
But there is something we can do against the madmen. I think this is a case where if we can do it, we will do it.
Otherwise, our threats are becoming too light.
We are holding the front, and thanks to the heroic efforts of our men, it is difficult, but we are holding, and the enemy’s losses are huge, but something else is needed here. It would be better if it were sharp, unexpected, hard and fatal for the enemy. Victory is above any rule, which in our situation makes no sense. And nothing less than Victory will satisfy us.

The way our minds work, especially with socio-political abstractions like we indulge in during all these discussions, is that we tend to come down on a side or with a particular attitude or interest and then extract from what we read and think elements that accumulate around that predilection. It’s not bad, but it does mean we tend to start oversimplifying everything in order to be able to think about them and express ourselves. We shorthand stuff. We use simple words like ‘Russia’ or ‘the US’ and believe that we know what they mean when in fact they don’t mean all that much at all.
Especially with ‘Russia’ I think many here are generally favorable towards Putin (and Russia) and so tend to project a simplistic wisdom and perfection. That’s okay, that’s how people project onto leaders. Indeed, that projection, when encouraged to go further, is what creates the basis for the perception of royalty, monarchy, kingship which is just Leader with sacred honorifics, cultural embellishments which further augment group collective perception of togetherness. But ‘Russia’ – like any large group, is going to have many different camps most of which will not be in full or even partial agreement. Putin has to be there for all those camps. If he is a good leader, and it seems to me from afar he is (very much so) he will be perceived as leader by most of those camps even those at each others’ throats.
So the fact that there are passionate debates and disagreements doesn’t detract from his leadership status or skill level, rather enhances it. It’s easy to lead a group in which everyone thinks and feels the same. But then that’s a cult. Countries, especially very large ones like Russia, cannot be run like cults and therefore there has to be room for a wide range of perceptions and thrusts. If enough people in Russia feel that it’s time to move forward in Ukraine more forcefully, Putin will do so once persuaded that it is tactically feasible and morally justifiable. So they are right to pressure him just as he is right to reserve judgment unless and until he feels going forward that way will benefit the entire collective.
Dugin is an influential intellectual, nothing more. But as a professional author and influencer, his words carry a certain weight. Also I gather many in Eurasia follow him, not just Russians. So although again I think everything you wrote was insightful viz the neocon approach etc., I don’t think that is what Dugin and others of his ilk are advocating necessarily.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 11:39 utc | 174

Posted by: ian | Jun 27 2023 23:54 utc | 136
I am wondering what audience the commentators in the WaPo and talking heads on TV are playing to. People in Russia? As if they pay attention to what Blinken says. I doubt the Russian leadership cares very much what these people say.
==============================================
They play to those who read them, which is those interested in Beltway Blues riffs, ie mainly people in DC and those who deal with them.
Why 8 writers doing the same story? Diversity? Exactly! Each writer appeals to a sub-section of the overall WAPO audience. So they can deliver the same basic message to all their constituents in an identity-tailored way. It’s similar to the twin controlled opposition principle of the Uniparty. Both party wings are controlled by the same overall buzzard body but the members in each party feel that they are banding together to oppose the other guys, that they are free and the other guys are deluded or manipulated. So they identify with the Party they feel solidarity with just like various readers identify with certain authors based on various criteria – age, race, social background, authorial flair, humour – whatever. But just as with the Uniparty, the underlying message is the same.
Like with the Uniparty right now the message is: unless we band together the other side is going to destroy this nation and we won’t have a democractic republic anymore. Both sides have very good reasons for believing this based on what they keep absorbing from their media sources. But even though they are very much opposed, they do not realize that they are getting essentially the same message albeit with the ‘us’ and ‘them’ labels reversed. It’s nasty, the whole business, but also kinda smart. (I don’t think ignorance is the driver as many very smart people insist. I think Satanic is a better explanation!)

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 11:53 utc | 175

In nowheresville south of Austruckinfailure we were treated to the idiot in charge of our universities Intrrnational Affairs department revealing his woeful ignorance on the excitement over the weekend
Put all food and liquids aside and have a listen. The audio is 2.5 hours and the bit of interest starts at about 1.5 hours in and runs for 20 minutes
https://www.abc.net.au/hobart/programs/mornings/mornings/102514036

Posted by: But really | Jun 28 2023 12:22 utc | 176

To:
yesbored | Jun 27 2023 16:07 utc | 13
Thanks, I do like well done satire.
Please play again soon.

Posted by: Bilejones | Jun 28 2023 12:33 utc | 177

whether what really influenced Prigozhin to attempt this and how it is currently and will continue to be “reported” by US MSM outlets and British Intel mouthpieces, it has the footprint of a British operation followed by the usual US behavior. Just listen to statements by US officials and even Uncle Joe saying that “For Gods sake, this man can not remain in power.” Blowing up pipelines, attempts to blow up Kirch Strait Bridge, Kiev plans for attacking Zaporozhye nuclear power plant then blaming Russia; talk about suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Posted by: WT Baker | Jun 28 2023 12:34 utc | 178

How many of you know that bloody blinken’s grandfather was born in kiev? & nuland also has ukrainian ancestry thru her grandfather louis. Conflict of interest. So obviously, they’re biased lying sh1ts.

Posted by: Ralph | Jun 28 2023 13:04 utc | 179

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 5:47 utc | 165
I was thinking Russian Mafia.
=====================================
From archive.org

by M. Raphael Johnson, Ph.D.
While the FBI and major media obsess about the Sicilian Mafia (the “Cosa Nostra”) a far more powerful and sinister force is in existence that has controlled most of the globe’s organized crime for at least two decades — the Jewish mafia from Russia (a “Kosher Nostra”). Yet there is not even a desk at the FBI for their crimes, which dwarf those of the Italian gangsters in scope, violence and depth.
On April 28, 2002, a military helicopter went down in the southern part of the Krasnoyarsk region of Siberia. On board was a major Russian dignitary, Gen. Alexander Lebed, governor of the region. Lebed was pronounced dead at the scene. Almost immediately, the international press blamed “heavy fog” for the incident. However, at the time, every member of the Russian military was convinced the death of Lebed was no accident, but rather another hit by the international Jewish mafia, an organization that had long since taken control over much of Russia’s economy. Lebed, likely the most popular man in Russia at the time, was going to build a national socialist empire – possibly with Chinese assistance – based on the massive oil and mineral wealth of the region.
Had he succeeded, world history could have changed, and the 21st century would look very different. Prior to that, dozens of anti-Zionists in Russia had been murdered by car bombs or other devices, while none of the cases was ever solved. Only a handful was even investigated.
The very fact that the Jewish mafia (often misnamed the “Russian” mafia) was capable of completely covering its tracks, being completely left out of all news reports surrounding the incident, while the common people (in Russia) were utterly convinced of their complicity, proves the immense strength of this rather new movement of organized crime. The Jewish mafia is nothing like their Irish or Italian predecessors in its American or European operations. They are richer, more international in scope and far more violent and ruthless. They kill children. They kill policemen and their families. They kill whomever they like.
There has been nothing like it before in the history of the globe. And they are just
getting started.

(Barnes Review May/June 2006)

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 13:15 utc | 180

If Putin is SO weak, why hasn’t NATO taken St.Petersburg and Vladivostok by now? Answer me that Tony Blinking!

Posted by: OldFart | Jun 28 2023 14:46 utc | 181

Scorpion @ 175
Meyer Lansky? Junius Myer Schine? Lester Crown?
Nothing new here. It all comes out of Odessa, Lemberg, Vilnius. Has now been tightly integrated into Intelligence and banking. And media. You can’t tell the players without a program, you and I only get to see the program many decades after the fact.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 28 2023 14:50 utc | 182

@ Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 5:47 utc | 165
i honestly don’t know, but some character profile on prigozhin is relevant here too..
@ Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 13:15 utc | 179
sounds fabricated.. hard to know what is what, but it reminds me of hollywood script writing..

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 15:02 utc | 183

Full read out of President Lukashenko’s talk about the negotiation with Progozhin . Worth of your time to read through it with Deepl (a very good German online translator).
He (Lukashenko) also addressed to some media outlets and media workers: “There are “smelly” political analysts and bloggers who start pushing me against Putin . I say again: neither Putin nor I see any heroism in it (in solving the situation with the PMC “Wagner. – Ed.). There is no need to set us against each other. We did everything we were supposed to do. We did and are doing our job. And without any ambitions. I have absolutely no ambitions. I’m not making excuses, so you understand. No ambition they talk about.
We are, I’ve said it more than once, me and Putin, a generation of outgoing politicians. Neither he nor I have those ambitions anymore. But as long as we are presidents, we will stand up for what we are constitutionally obliged to do in a very tough and sometimes brutal manner.
Many people say: here, Lukashenko is a mediator, well done, a monument (he should be put up. – Commentary), a hero, and so on and so forth. Listen, I do not need any monuments and heroes. You know my attitude to monuments. I do not perceive it well at all. And as for mediators: I never asked to be a mediator. I do not accept mediation at all, I hate it. Because as long as I have been working as President, we have been stifled and stifled and stifled. With sanctions, with something else, trying to bend us over. And at the same time they come in from the other side: “We’re ready to be mediators.” Some for money, some for politics, some for political ambitions. I hate it. Here 25 years ago I hated this mediation,” said the head of state.
“I am not a mediator. I am as much a participant in these events as President Putin. Because this is our Fatherland. I repeat once again. So if someone there in Russia, and I hear it, talks about Lukashenko’s mediation, no mediation! It is our problem, my problem, just as it is with President Putin and the Russians,” stressed the Belarusian leader.

Very impressed with Lukashenko’s political wisedom, foresight and pragmatism.

Posted by: lulu | Jun 28 2023 15:07 utc | 184

Very impressed with Lukashenko’s political wisedom, foresight and pragmatism.
Posted by: lulu | Jun 28 2023 15:07 utc | 183
Yes, no monuments, my kind of guy.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 28 2023 15:14 utc | 185

In response to Richard Steven Hack@157,
Not sure in regards to your claim about Lukashenko. I watched highlights of the military award ceremony and subsequent Q&A yesterday and Lukashenko, more or less, suggests that Belarus will become a transit hub for Wagner operations abroad.
Translated from Cassad:

3 years have passed
Year 2020. NEXTA – The Lukashenko regime is weak and on the verge of collapsing.
Year 2023. Belarus has PMC Wagner and nuclear weapons, while the founder of NEXTA is working for Belarussian KGB.
PS. Further excerpts from statements by Lukashenko concerning “Wagner”.
1. Recruitment centers for PMC “Wagner” will not be created in Belarus.
2. At the same time, Lukashenko will not hinder citizens of Belarus from joining PMC “Wagner”, most important is that they understand the mortal danger present in this line of work.
3. An old army base was offered as accommodation for PMC “Wagner.”
4. Lukashenko transparently hinted that Belarus may become a transit country for the transfer of Prigozhin and PMC “Wagner” someplace else. Potentially for work in Africa.
5. PMC “Wagner” will not be used for provocations on the border with NATO countries.
6. PMC “Wagner” is still based in field camps in LNR.

Whether or not Belarus becomes Wagner’s new home base, it at least appears that they’ll continue international operations as per usual.

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 28 2023 15:31 utc | 186

@ lulu | Jun 28 2023 15:07 utc | 183
thanks lulu… it is much the same as the transcript the poster s shared on another thread here earlier..

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 15:36 utc | 187

Regarding the making of propaganda it’s been fully established by any one who can read that the MSM on foreign affairs is always in lockstep with common US positions and policies . . .that’s ALWAYS.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 28 2023 16:32 utc | 188

Shoigu is a bhuddist…. Bhuddists do not engage in pissing contests….
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 27 2023 19:26 utc | 93
Shoigu was baptised as a child into the Russian Eastern Orthodox Church.
It has often been commented on that every year on Victory Day, the vehicle in which Shoigu stands and which conveys him around Red Square, where addresses the assembled troops,the car stops for a moment below the arches of the Resurrection Gate, whereupon Shoigu always crosses himself in the \|Eastern Orthodox fashion.

Posted by: Moscow Exile | Jun 28 2023 17:13 utc | 189

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 28 2023 14:50 utc | 182
Scorpion @ 175
Meyer Lansky? Junius Myer Schine? Lester Crown?
Nothing new here. It all comes out of Odessa, Lemberg, Vilnius. Has now been tightly integrated into Intelligence and banking. And media. You can’t tell the players without a program, you and I only get to see the program many decades after the fact.
=======================================
Well said. I think you can recognize the smell though, the atmospherics. But then again: you live next to a sewage-filled river long enough you don’t notice the stench at all. I think that’s where we are at now. Hopefully somebody’s cycle theory somewhere is true: at some point it stops going down and down and will turn and start going up and up.
I think general ignorance at this point is a huge problem. But also we lack the ways and means to envisage, let alone discuss with mutually intelligible vocabulary, any viable alternatives.
A pickle, and no mistake!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 18:11 utc | 190

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 15:02 utc | 183
@ Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 13:15 utc | 179
sounds fabricated.. hard to know what is what, but it reminds me of hollywood script writing..
============================
Good observation! But I think just above everything involving 1800’s Europe sounds Dickensian to us. And of course he was one of the greatest fabulists in world history and came out of those times. The problem is that, even though we know we don’t really know all that much, we are attached to our habitual views and so it’s like taking a trip in the London sewers during Jack the Ripper’s time and seeing all the detritus and corpses and rats down there feel like a trip into fantasy.
But of course our nice, safe, dependable reality is just a projection, and no less a fantasy. Just one which habit makes us believe is ‘real.’ I’m sure am not the only one who finds a trip into a well-off middle class suburb highly surrealistic even though the entire ethos is one of providing and manifesting ‘normality.’
We’re all f**ked!!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 18:16 utc | 191

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 13:15 utc | 180
“The very fact that the Jewish mafia (often misnamed the “Russian” mafia) was capable of completely covering its tracks, being completely left out of all news reports surrounding the incident, while the common people (in Russia) were utterly convinced of their complicity, proves the immense strength of this rather new movement of organized crime.”
Precisely

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 18:38 utc | 192

@ Scorpion | Jun 28 2023 18:16 utc | 191
it is hard to know what is what at this point.. i will give everyone that!!

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 18:49 utc | 193

Posted by: james | Jun 28 2023 18:49 utc | 193
It’s really not that hard, you just have to connect dots that you are not allowed to connect.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 28 2023 19:02 utc | 194

Accent of the poor worried Nazi in the pizza-restaurant/bar ?
South African or Zimbabwean ,definitely. Identifying accents is my party-trick and I am very good at it. Some people said Aussie or North England. Nope, no way. I am Aussie and know an Aussie accent. I have also heard Northern Brits and have friends from there, Jordies and Scousers amongst others etc. This accented Nazi is not British.

Posted by: Boy | Jun 28 2023 19:15 utc | 195

The lockstep monotonous “analysis” by these mouthpieces is all I need to know about the propaganda being spewed.

Posted by: InnerCynic | Jun 29 2023 8:11 utc | 196

The neocons will not stop their propaganda campaign no matter what. They have never explained why “Russia is our enemy!” nor what Putin has ever done to earn our enmity. It is obvious that5 they see themselves failing and are getting desperate.

Posted by: bOxOrOx | Jun 29 2023 19:22 utc | 197

Blinken is like a schoolboy whispering lies about someone and hoping that the person does not come looking for him. Heavy weights like Putin and Lavrov brush him aside and dont waste time on his childish prattle.

Posted by: Jj | Jun 30 2023 6:46 utc | 198

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