Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 24, 2023
On Prigozhin’s Insurrection Farce

Some thoughts on the ongoing insurrection attempt in Russia.

I wonder who or what lured Yevgeny Prigozhin into staging this farce.

In twelve or so hours things are likely to have calmed down.

'Western' anal-cysts will spend weeks fantasizing about their wished for outcome which, of course, was never to happen.

The whole story reminds me of Machiavelli's warning against mercenaries:

I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed.

Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and [one’s own] destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, that they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. …

I wish to demonstrate further the infelicity of these arms [i.e., mercenaries]. The mercenary captains are either capable men or they are not; if they are, you cannot trust them, because they always aspire to their own greatness, either by oppressing you, who are their master, or others contrary to your intentions; but if the captain [i.e., the leader of the mercenaries] is not skillful, you are ruined in the usual way [i.e., you will lose the war].

Comments

Haven’t seen ‘alternative president’ Navalny’s name crop up in this thread. The West’s CIA/MI6 mismanagers must be crying tears of blood over the prospect of the recipient their $30+ million investment in his Foundation spending 10+ years in the slammer.
Don’t know if Prigozhin ever had contact with Navalny but if so then the CIA/MI6 gravy train would surely have been discussed?
On the other hand, I’m hoping that the Prigozhin Affair is a Russian-inspired pantomime to give the West some false hope.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 24 2023 14:58 utc | 201

Maybe this has been covered earlier but if so I couldn’t find it.
I gather a CTO = Counter Terrorism Operation which puts different political and military gears in motion versus a lesser grade Special Military Operation. I read somewhere – perhaps a poster here – that conscripts can be used etc.
Also elsewhere the news that there is a change at the top of Intelligence.
What are the ramifications of this change to CTO? Because possibly this was desired by Russian High Command and these strange developments have been staged or opportunistically used to effect this change in status.
No matter the exact whys and wherefores, there is a shake-up ongoing in Russian governance, the result of which will seemingly be a country run on a war footing with related command and control.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2023 15:00 utc | 202

Wagner was created by the GRU in 2014 to get around having to pass a bill in the Duma allowing Russian forces to operate outside of Russian territory. Remember the USA allowed congress to give full war powers to POTUS after 9/11 … Putin doesn’t have that power … this is how they sent troops into Ukraine and Syria without the Duma’s permission.
Prigozhin is a figurehead … the GRU “owns” Wagner.
First the GRU is the body responsible for Russian psyops and deception operations.
Second you would have to believe the GRU would create such a force without at least one loyal GRU operative with orders to put a bullet in Prigozhin’s head if he took one step off the reservation.
Third ask yourself if the Russians ever really shorted Wagner on artillery support … the Ukrainians in Bakhmut never saw a slowdown on what was raining down on them … or if Wagner ever really stopped taking prisoners … they didn’t. In both cases Prigozhin made these statement to influence Ukrainians.
Fourth Wagner is a light infantry force that relies on the Russian army for fire support, ammunition, fuel and food. They are in Russia, surrounded with no source of supply … they won’t last a month.
So ask yourself what you are actually seeing in this bloodless insurrection.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jun 24 2023 15:00 utc | 203

Inkan1969 (205).
Russia is NOT an enemy of Scotland’s its an enemy of England a completely different country, England can shove it Great Game where the sun doesn’t shine.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 24 2023 15:05 utc | 204

Posté par: Lex | 24 juin 2023 14:44 UTC | 196
I agree with your vision of the in-between.

Posted by: Fuusible | Jun 24 2023 15:05 utc | 205

Well, what do I know? Nothing really…
I’d just make two observations.
1. The Wagner troops have gone through hell, and prevailed. Their group identity and loyalty to each other cannot be questioned.
2. Prigozhin has become increasingly mentally unhinged in the videos I have seen. I suspect that what he has seen of the fighting and casualties has seriously mentally affected him. His obsession with Shoigu has grown and grown.
And 3 comments.
The Russian Armed forces could make mincemeat of Wagner, but they will not.
Prigozhin could be taken out, but this would leave the Wagner troops disaffected.
Is it all just shadow playing? Perhaps. But I don’t think that Prigozhin is in on the script. He could be played, but without his knowledge. This is risky business.

Posted by: Marduk | Jun 24 2023 15:06 utc | 206

Crossing the Oka

@watcher | Jun 24 2023 14:16 utc | 174
12. Having crossed the Rubicon so to speak Priggy has now gone full Ukraine

Looks like Prigozhin may have crossed the Oka River 100 kilometer south of Moscow.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 15:09 utc | 207

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jun 24 2023 15:00 utc | 210
… So ask yourself what you are actually seeing in this bloodless insurrection.
Well put.
That is indeed what I’ve been asking myself on this busy Saturday …
The timing is typical: Always the weekend …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 15:09 utc | 208

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Jun 24 2023 13:50 utc | 155
Is literally a professional Internet comment forum presence. See he/him/his prolific Disqus activity for an example. This commenter should stick to Bronie Furry Kiddie manga and leave discussion of important things to people who have never commented on the butt crack of a cartoon female 8 year old. NATO should hire or brainwash better trolls.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2023 15:10 utc | 209

Has anyone ever considered that Prigozhin may simply be seriously mentally ill. He’s exhibited all the indicia of a paranoid, cluster B narcissistic personality disorder since forever. He makes Trump look sane and Biden an intellectual dynamo by comparison – and we all know how disfunctional those two are.

Posted by: Hoggy | Jun 24 2023 15:10 utc | 210

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 14:21 utc | 176
On Slavyangrad TG in general, I noticed a post of theirs recently saying pretty much that Shoigu was Prigozhin’s boss and everything else was maskirovka. It seemed like a ridiculous puff piece that had been planted by MoD media operatives, like weren’t even trying to be objective.
I still scan their channel regularly but with that possible bias in mind.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2023 15:13 utc | 211

Aleks on BMA has 3 update articles on this event. Have read most of his articles and always appreciate them.
https://bmanalysis.substack.com/p/urgent-update

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 24 2023 15:15 utc | 212

Just watched Putin’s 5-1/2 minute speech. He does not look angry or pissed. He looks like he is acting. Is the entire political world become theatre?
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 24 2023 11:27 utc | 75
Pretty much so, yep.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 24 2023 15:16 utc | 213

203 – Unless it is actually a military coup and Wagner are merely its Potemkin village or screen. The lack of resistance so far from the official military is odd, to say the least. It could be that if real shooting starts, it all crumbles, much like Hitler’s Beer Hall putsch in 1923. The army did nothing to stop him but Bavarian police were willing to bar the way and then open fire.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 15:17 utc | 214

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2023 15:00 utc | 202
Certainly a possibility of it being cover for planned or desired actions which are yet to become clear. A previous poster in this thread linked it to the caesium bust by FSB … plausible that El Priggers got the call to monster things up a bit as cover for CTO maneuverings.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2023 15:20 utc | 215

Surprise is that there has been no mutiny or protests by military the way Putin and his traitor FM Lavrov have run the military campaign. Putin had only Army going for Russia and he underused it to show his cowardly nature only recently a bridge was bombed on British plot but Putin did nothing -no red line.any patriot would have been angry at this

Posted by: Sam | Jun 24 2023 15:20 utc | 216

Putin’s treachery against Donbass Slavs
I remember that the Donbas militia was close to taking Mariupol and apparently Putin stopped them. I guess to get the Minsk agreement.
In 2014, Some time after Europe capitulated to sanctioning Russia over MH17 – perhaps a couple of weeks perhaps a month, The Donbass militias fortunes changed. They began creating cauldrons and wiping out Ukie groupings. A few specialists, some Russian ISR perhaps. I think it was at that time Russia took control of the situation. It was around that time the removal of Girkin/Strelkov occurred and new political leads took office in Luhansk and Donetsk. Which led to Minsk I.
Wagner say they started in Poposna (I forget the correct spelling of the town) but I suspect they started in those weeks after the MH17 sanctions.
The Ukies get restless again and so the battle of Debeltseve. The Minsk II meeting occurred when Debeltseve was nearly surrounded. I think that meeting went into the early hours of the morning, Poroshenko only signing up to Minsk II when the last road out of Debeltseve was physical cut.
That village that was taken to cut the road. The Ukies had been dug in there. A camera man got the early in the morning to interview those that took it. I always remember the man he interviewed and how they had gone about taking those position. Very much special forces. Perhaps Russia military, perhaps Wagner, but certainly not citizen militia. My impression was that Putin was taking no chances in getting Porky to sign the Minsk II agreement.

Posted by: Sam | Jun 24 2023 15:21 utc | 217

@ Brannagyn | Jun 24 2023 13:40 utc | 144
Nice enumeration.
@ Gruff-man
Thanks for the different color.
@ shadowbanned
Your thoughts?

Posted by: natokraine | Jun 24 2023 15:21 utc | 218

See Clever Dog at 73. Yes.. to follow on,
How were Wagner Group soldiers paid, to jump to the nitty-gritty?
I had assumed previously without any thought, that they were (as individual persons) contracted (signed a contract) with the Russian State who then paid them as ‘contractors’ aka fighters, soldiers.. roughly (…) equivalent to, say, volunteers, conscripts, etc.
All from Al Jazeera:
general article,
https://tinyurl.com/3y5cd562
“Wagner mercenary boss brushes off Russian orders to sign contracts”
https://tinyurl.com/2fwecurr
See also “Chechen Forces sign contract with Russia after Wagner’s refusal.”
https://tinyurl.com/yn6xyevw

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 24 2023 15:23 utc | 219

I avoid engaging in speculation, but am prompted to say that the idea that this, actually serious and dangerous development, is staged by any segment of the Russian authorities, is improbable. To cause this level of dramatic events, which can not be controlled, amidst a war, which is considered by the Russian leadership to be existential, is not logical or purposeful, it brings no benefits.
The damage is, however, substantial – to the authority of the Russian president and military, to trust and confidence in the leadership and to Russia’s standing in the eyes of all those states that have not sided with the Western attackers. The psychological effects will linger, as will a general sense of insecurity.
Medvedev just called these events, (part of) a coup.
Luckily, up this moment, there are no reports of armed clashes between the Wagner people and the Russian military and security forces.
Whatever or whoever came up with this, and whatever the reasons – history will judge them harshly.

Posted by: JB | Jun 24 2023 15:24 utc | 220

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 14:39 utc | 191
Within the next 72 hours I expect Prigozhin to be under arrest and the leadership of Wagner to replaced.
For russ. children and teenagers, Prigozhin is a hero. Let’s say, until the beginning of this week, 100% an idol. In the Pre Prigozhinarea it was only Western singers, Western actors, etc … Now the russ kids and the russ teenagers love a russ. Patriot. Do you understand what this means? Have you seen how Ukrainian prisoners react to Prigozhin? Search videos and watch them.
You can’t make such idols a head shorter (arrest or replace). No way!
If yes the russian have a big problem ( lost a new generation )
Prigozhin’s claims/accusations are sometimes so crazy and easy to refute. In the next few days, weeks we will see a review of the last 9 years with him as primary actor. We will get a lot of answers. This i guess, rest will be very wrong and very cracy

Posted by: Theo | Jun 24 2023 15:25 utc | 221

With the UKR offensive in the past it is now time for the RuAF to unite to go on the offensive. Unfortunately for Wagner this means they have to be assimilated. Wagner have already been asked nicely to sign contracts with the RuAF for this purpose. Prigozhin is used to calling his own shots and most obviously has a problem with RuAF taking his play toys he was paying (partially) for away. As this included the option that Putin would arrest him he was backed into a corner and had nothing to lose. So he called out all the assets he had for a demonstration and found they were woefully inadequate, but still large enough to create a spectacle. At this point RuAF will ask the remaining Wagner (not so nicely) to sign contracts with RuAF and Wagner will be no more. Prigozhin will go on “vacation” and is at the mercy of Putin as to what that vacation will entail. Putin now realizes that the US/NATO/UKR are out of options, increasing shelling of civilian areas and possibly contemplating attacking/bombing ZNPP or using tactical nukes. In order to counter this, Russia needs to unify and do what is necessary to fight off the “Nazis and their patrons” (Putin’s own words). Wagner has fulfilled its purpose. I think it likely at this point that Russia requests another mobilization to support an offensive this winter after another 6 months of attrition of Ukraine’s army and materiel.

Posted by: teddy salad | Jun 24 2023 15:28 utc | 222

CIA is activating all of its assets.
https://twitter.com/maria_drutska/status/1672610194470174720

Posted by: Morene Lagneau | Jun 24 2023 15:28 utc | 223

So tonight we may have dueling slip\screen videos of one set of guys at the rings around moscow (at current pace), vs others on the approaches to Rostov? Scene from original diehard comes to mind – “eat your heart out channel 5” aka western MSMgasm ad nauseam.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/52072 – Akhmat forces approaching Rostov (who know if real\current pic of their convoy)
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/52066 – “Akhmat fighters approaching Rostov from two sides. From the side of Aksai (north-eastern part) and from the side of Krasny Krym (north-western part).”

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 15:28 utc | 224

Prigozhin is beyond redemption. There will be no going back. This cannot be undone. This was not a trick to fool the enemy.

Posted by: Just Observing | Jun 24 2023 15:29 utc | 225

Posted by: john | Jun 24 2023 12:41 utc | 110
So whatever is going on with Wagner, the entire officer corps is onboard with it
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 13:00 utc | 123
This morning I have been asking friends, what does Prigozhin actually want? They all agreed, an end of the fake “SMO”, mobilization, a start of a real war, and ultimately, the deletion of “Ukraine”.
<= Putin and Prigozhin met on the 14th.. Putin's political opponents don't want a declaration of war.. the army is up to size and ready to go.. would not be surprised to Prigozhin and troops remain at Kremlin until war is declared?. Ukraine is defeated, so on to NATO Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 14:21 utc | 176 "Mark my words - we are present at a magnificent spectacle that unties the hands of the Kremlin and justifies subsequent actions in the eyes of the population. The options are huge - from general mobilization to the use of tactical nuclear weapons. Prigozhin is a pocket oligarch. And he has no power over "his" PMC. That's all." Posted by: Akash | Jun 24 2023 14:56 utc | 206 Did that 6.2 billion dollar Pentagon accounting error end up in Prigozhin's offshore bank accounts? <=No one is going to risk decapitation for 6.2 billion.

Posted by: snake | Jun 24 2023 15:35 utc | 226

220 – “How were Wagner Group soldiers paid, to jump to the nitty-gritty? ”
—-
Prior to now from Wagner, apparently mostly in cash unless otherwise requested, or so I’ve seen typed by others on my putter screen (but that reading doesn’t make it fact, it just got mentioned as part of supposed large cash seizures made this morning near pz’s office).

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 15:38 utc | 227

Everyone must listen to Judge Nap’s latest, featuring Scott Ritter.

Posted by: natokraine | Jun 24 2023 15:38 utc | 228

Yes, but . . . What if convincing NATO and Ukraine to gather their forces and commit to one BIG last push, maybe include a little staged collapse of Russian forces at the point of contact is just disinformation and manipulation. Once the full commitment is made, unleash the Lancets and KA 52’s.
That would beat chasing these elite units all over the country.

Posted by: Trumpeter | Jun 24 2023 15:39 utc | 229

This is highly unusual and highly significant “event” is inexplicable, not supported by evidence, and the “event” and the timing is just too good to be true for the US, NATO and Ukraine.
I sense that it is all propaganda and PSYOP.

Posted by: bill wolfe | Jun 24 2023 15:41 utc | 230

Posted by: JB | Jun 24 2023 15:24 utc | 221

The damage is, however, substantial – to the authority of the Russian president and military, to trust and confidence in the leadership and to Russia’s standing in the eyes of all those states that have not sided with the Western attackers. The psychological effects will linger, as will a general sense of insecurity.

Even worse will be the geopolitical fallout.
No matter what this is, it won’t play well with China, Iran, Brazil and the rest of Russia’s partners in the RoTW.
Diplomats and strategic planners in all those countries would now be asking themselves if they need to hedge bets …
This little stunt by Prigozhin (if not maskirova) has potential to erase years of diplomatic gains by Putin-Lavrov.
Frankly, if Wagner goes too far it could damage the RF to the point where all gains made by Wagner are nullified. Once again proving the timeless wisdom of Machiavelli’s admonition on mercenaries.
In the interim the Western MICIMATT is having a party with this incident, so perfectly timed with the western news cycle …
(Currently listening to Weeb Union’s careful, empirical analysis of the situation, as well as Mercouris’ and Christoforou’s careful parsing)

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 15:41 utc | 231

Kommersant – photo gallery
https://www.kommersant.ru/gallery/6067648?from=doc_vrez

Posted by: daffyDuct | Jun 24 2023 15:44 utc | 232

Posted by: Hoggy | Jun 24 2023 15:10 utc | 211
I agree. Prigozhin has gone full Doolally, but he has enough followers to have already caused a great deal of trouble. Like any rabid creature he should have been taken out some time ago.
However his followers who may have been delusionally misled could be handled with care to prevent serious bloodshed. If they can be persuaded to surrender then all is good but if they cannot be then they must be eliminated

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 24 2023 15:47 utc | 233

@ Posted by: HB_Norica | Jun 24 2023 15:00 utc | 203
“So ask yourself what you are actually seeing in this bloodless insurrection.”
Great summation of what and why Wagner. Of course this is not an insurrection. Just as when Priggy threw a hissy fit pointing at ‘dead’ Wagnerians. Didn’t believe it then don’t believe it now.
One thing is for sure a PMC is not needed in any real country to defend itself – which Russia is.
Second the previous article by b, says what most of us at the bar here knew from a day One. Ukraine would be a massive loser. This victory now must not be hubristically celebrated by Russia otherwise it would be not only bad taste but potentially lead to reactions by friends and foe alike. The western media muppets are jumping around with joy as even the propaganda fly paper that is Glastonbury festival now days, is used to change the tune from the great defeat! It’s almost a gift wrap from Putin and co to let the losers walk away with some face😝
Third and probably the most important point which Putin made in his statement and most seem to have let fly over their heads – is his reference to 1917 ! Remember that there has always been links shown between the Western Bankers and the Bolsheviks that came by train from Germany with gold … such statements about why did Lenin give Russian lands to an Ukraine? So did Stalin and Kruschev. Why?
So what we could be seeing is the final stage of that old history being settled and a return to Russian values pre the 1917 debacle which got rid of the WHOLE royal bloodline because they refused to handover the great resources to the Bankers as all other European monarchies had.
The Truth can finally come out.
The PMC can carry on intervening where it is needed where there can be no formal forces. That seems to be fewer and fewer as Russian forces and soon Chinese forces will be read to deploy in countries that request them.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 24 2023 15:48 utc | 234

Blinkan1969’s disqus profile
https://disqus.com/by/Inkan1969/
Quite the busy provocateur.

Posted by: Milton | Jun 24 2023 15:51 utc | 235

Diplomatic damage, no, because everyone is liable to face ‘demonstrations, overthrow, colour revolution’; look at Iran recently, certain forecasts in Ide with the peasants, South Africa and Western pressure, Brazil and the impeachment and imprisonment of Lula. Just one more event in the course of history… What counts is the situation afterwards, with or without the strengthening of power. Look at Erdogan!

Posted by: Le Catalan | Jun 24 2023 15:52 utc | 236

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 15:41 utc | 231
Frankly, if Wagner goes too far it could damage the RF to the point where all gains made by Wagner are nullified. Once again proving the timeless wisdom of Machiavelli’s admonition on mercenaries.
I need to rethink the above:
– Wagner cannot be said to be a true mercenary group in the sense Machiavelli meant it.
– However, it is an elite military force with substantial autonomy from the primary defense organ of The State.
Just like mercenaries, elite military forces have historically always been a double-edged sword wielded in the hands of the The State (the Roman Praetorian Guard comes to mind).
So in Machiavelli’s admonition his emphasis would be in “auxiliaries” rather than mercenaries, “auxiliary” force being a better description of the Wagner group than “mercenaries”.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 15:52 utc | 237

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 24 2023 15:48 utc | 235
“soon Chinese forces will be read to deploy in countries that request them”
I’m guessing Russia will soon request them. If they haven’t already.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jun 24 2023 15:57 utc | 238

Once source related to prior comments about cash payments etc I forgot to include. Supposedly a casual ~billion rubles seized, supposedly for salaries, but that’s like ~150 million $ at yesterdays rates anyway? Lot of cash to keep on hand at any given moment at HQ, then again, probably lots of final payments about to be made and I guess who’s gonna steal from the wagner offices right? Maybe safer than a bank prior to yesterday.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/90202

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 15:58 utc | 239

Posted by: odd coup | Jun 24 2023 14:56 utc | 199
When Truman fired Gen MacArthur, did the Rooskis think that a coup would really happen? No.
I don’t recall MacArthur making a speech denouncing the UN involvement in defending South Korea as unjustified, or organizing soldiers to fight on his behalf against the US military.
But MacArthur did turn down efforts to make him run for president, I believe.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Jun 24 2023 15:59 utc | 240

assorted ukraine propagandists, euronazis and neocon arms sellers certainly have a lot to say about the rumors going about in the ukranazi cluster kerfluffle…… and the pmc labor dispute.
pack of march hares.

Posted by: paddy | Jun 24 2023 15:59 utc | 241

When I suspect PSYOP, I suspect a plot by US CIA and P to fake a “mutiny”.
Posted by: bill wolfe 236
100% agree. This is NATO’s Offensive. Always subterfuge and working to expose any crack psychologically. I can’t remember a coup attempt where the instigators call their shots before they make an attempt on the “palace”.

Posted by: Milton | Jun 24 2023 16:01 utc | 242

putinova, the traitor made his job and now russia is dead 😉 perfect done from this gay fucking weak and coward pussy..

Posted by: joe921 | Jun 24 2023 16:04 utc | 243

osted by: paddy | Jun 24 2023 15:59 utc | 245
euronazis
Putin has had a history of providing financial and political support to euronazis such as Marine LePen.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Jun 24 2023 16:05 utc | 244

Posted by: Theo | Jun 24 2023 15:25 utc | 222
For russ. children and teenagers, Prigozhin is a hero … You can’t make such idols a head shorter (arrest or replace). No way!
This is the knife edge Putin has to balance.
This is the reason Prigozhin is still alive.
This is the biggest mistake The State makes:
Leaving a “people’s hero” in power too long.
It’s the Western way: Pin all hope on heroes.
Watch The State crumble when the hero falls.
What the Russian people must now decide is:
Which Hero they love more? Putin? Prigozhin?
Putin will now put that choice before Russia.
There can be only one …
(Then again, this could all be maskirova intended to allow Putin to announce 1) Martial Law and then 2) full mobilization …)
Aside/Anecdotal:
As a Westerner I remember discussing the western obsession with heroes with a Chinese friend. One thing he said has stuck with me down the years:
Heroes are a sign of ill times and ill governance, for if The State and the people are well governed there is no need for heroes.
I consider and observe there are no such living individuals built up by the Chinese (people or state) to be heroes and upon whom much hope is hung …
Perhaps the Russian people could learn a cultural trick from their friends a few stops down the Silk Road …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:07 utc | 245

Al Jazeera
Wagner mutiny: Putin vows swift retribution for ‘treason’ [36 mins useful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnbrVwBoTwU
Yeats: The centre cannot hold – mere anarchy is loosed upon the world …. all is changed – changed utterly …
I’m speechless – hence I borrow from WB Yeats …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 24 2023 16:08 utc | 246

Has Prigozhin been bought off by the Americans? Russia’s in the midst of a armed conflict and Prigozhin decides to stop fighting Ukraine and fight Russian’s instead?

Posted by: D J G | Jun 24 2023 16:08 utc | 247

I mean at this point Russia should really just pull out the Kinzhals and go hunting carrier strike groups. I would enjoy the lulz, and losing two CSGs would be a bigger humiliation for the U.S. than Pregozhin being a bitchy Primadonna is for Russia.

Posted by: Cthulhu | Jun 24 2023 16:08 utc | 248

@Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 15:09 utc | 207
I stayed by the Oka River some years back – lovely area. RT says the bridge was barricaded by the authorities.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 24 2023 16:12 utc | 249

Tempest in a samovar. Do not want to see an emaciated Prigo in a hospital gown with tubes on MSM repeat.

Posted by: d4l3d | Jun 24 2023 16:12 utc | 250

Someone earlier brought this up, Ritter and the Judge. Ritter flatout calls Prigozhen a traitor paid by western intelligence agents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2IqsAO-2M

Posted by: Morongobill | Jun 24 2023 16:12 utc | 251

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin confirmed that a “counter-terrorist regime” has been declared in the city, according to a statement.
“The situation is difficult. In order to minimize risks, I, within the framework of the operational headquarters, decided to declare Monday a non-working day – with the exception of authorities and enterprises of a continuous cycle, the military-industrial complex, and city services,” Sobyanin said on Telegram. “I ask you to refrain from traveling around the city as much as possible. It is possible that traffic will be blocked in certain areas and on certain roads.”

Posted by: d0ng | Jun 24 2023 16:15 utc | 252

Forwarded from Radio “Komsomolskaya Pravda”
The Russian authorities are trying to avoid a lot of bloodshed during the Prigozhin rebellion , Boris Rozhin
, an expert at the Center for Military-Political Journalism, the author of the ColonelCassad TG channel, said : “The army does not hit PMC columns, because the authorities may not want to bring the case to the maximum. In the last hour, there were proposals from the State Duma that the situation should be ended. That all those who surrendered will be credited with their merits in the NWO. That is, efforts are still being made to avoid big bloodshed, ” the expert explained on the air of Komsomolskaya Pravda radio .
According to him, the West is eager to get turmoil and a situation where the Russians start shooting at the Russians.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/90199

Sure they are eager for it, but that turmoil will just grow the longer it’s allowed to go on. /shm.

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 16:16 utc | 253

“When you strike at a king, you must kill him.” The question is Putin really king, who truly is in control of Moscow, of Russia? Assuming Prigozhin, the Mad Hatter of Bakhmut, is quickly neutralized, the immense threat of the demoralization of the Russian armed forces, at large remains. What are China, India, Turkey, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, for example, making of all this? How was Prigozhin even allowed to reach and take over Rostov to begin with? What are regulars of the Russian armed forces even fighting for in Ukraine if this banana republic-like farce was allowed to reach this level of seriousness during what has been described as an existential war by Russia, and during the vaunted Ukrainian offensive no less? This the difference between the US and Russia: the former is unified within its elite in its mission for unipolar hegemony, while Russia cannot even unite in its existential defense against NATO.

Posted by: Ludovic | Jun 24 2023 16:16 utc | 254

244 – He did put himself forward for the Republican nomination, but his momentum soon slowed – it may be that Eisenhower seemed more appealing and less controversial. In the end he stood and won the election for the Republicans.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:17 utc | 255

Posted by: watcher | Jun 24 2023 14:16 utc | 174
That seems like quite a shrewd analysis

Posted by: Tim | Jun 24 2023 16:17 utc | 256

After listening to Ritter, me thinks this will be over soon enough. (RSH victory lap? RSH haters club, be forewarned!). ;-). The fat lady hasn’t sung yet though. So, this is premature.
As for the damage to Russian diplomacy, it certainly comes to mind. But, this should be a warning to RoW that they must be more vigilant if they plan to truly seek freedom from Natostan slavery. (“When life gives you lemons.”). Lavrov should use it in conversations with RoW to make them wise up and defend/arm themselves quickly.

Posted by: natokraine | Jun 24 2023 16:19 utc | 257

The Washington Empire kept predicting or hoping for a coup against Putin and here we are. I have been waiting for something like this to happen. We have to remember that the Empire has almost unlimited funds to bribe anyone in the world they want and their connection to organized crime and oligarchs around the world has been tight for a long time. Conventional arms did not work to destroy the Russian state so the coup attempt is the last chance for the Empire to prevail.
Ritter thinks this will be over very quickly, I’m not so sure, though I hope he is right. Dissidents in the West often don’t understand how the Empire achieves control in the world–they do it, to be blunt, through criminal activities using threats and bribes along with information war. It has worked well in contrast to the ineptitude of the Western militaries. I think the Empire will depend more and more on covert wars rather than overt wars like the Ukrainian war.

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jun 24 2023 16:21 utc | 258

Posted by: cafe con leche | Jun 24 2023 15:53 utc | 239
(the hope of the global south) is too willing to negotiate to be in the good books of the EU like always, with predictable results and docusigns that will be deleted as soon as signed by the NATO countries.
This has always been the failing of Native people when faced with European colonialism.
From the Native American chiefs who bought the Anglo lie that a signed paper would hold.
To Xhosa Chiefs who thought a simple “X” on paper would hold Dutchmen to their word.
Thankfully, in Asia this delusion has been erased for at least 100 years.
They put no stock in the White Man’s contracts …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:21 utc | 259

Curious Passerby | Jun 24 2023 14:45 utc | 192
*** There are some questions that we must ask. Why won’t the Russian military use ts superior strngth to prevent the west from sending weapons to Ukraine? With its satellite capabilities Russia should be able to see everything crossing the border. Why is Russia allowing the Ukranians to mass in numbers in order to attack? Is Russia incapable of seeing these groups coming together? Why did Putin allow Prizogin to amass so much poer?***
Another very big question is why have materials essential to the NATO MIC still been exported to the enemy side during a war?
Whatever else is true or false, that is certainly not Prighozin’s decision, or fault.
Nor does he seem to have been a colleague of the treacherous pro-western “values” and economics liberal upper strata in Moscow / St.Petersburg — and they’re still at large, as they have been since the destruction of the USSR.
*If* guilty as some think, yes of course he should be shot. But so, at the very least, and beyond all doubt, should that entire sector of society complete with family and friends.

Posted by: Cynic | Jun 24 2023 16:25 utc | 260

What are China, India, Turkey, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, for example, making of all this?

Iran – internal matter supports putin\rule of law.
Turkey – similar statements to Iran.
Belarus – full support for putin\smo.
Others – not seen any officially statements yet, no doubt raising their eyebrows while trying not to say anything yet till they see how short lived or not this is.

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 16:28 utc | 261

I think the Empire will depend more and more on covert wars rather than overt wars like the Ukrainian war.
Chris Cosmos | Jun 24 2023 16:21 utc | 265
True. Many people do things for money, kamikaze retards like Ukr are very hard to find. You have to create a cult, a sect, to get that result after years of brainwashing. Looks like there is at least one more left to be activated, the Slava Taiwani sect.

Posted by: rk | Jun 24 2023 16:29 utc | 262

I find it just too coincidental that the NATO air exercise ended on the same day this started up. Gives me a very bad feeling. Is NATO about to get directly involved? It could be a helluva opportunity for them.
Fortunately for us all, I have a long history of my bad feelings amounting to nought.

Posted by: Socratic Dog | Jun 24 2023 16:29 utc | 263

Putin shouldn’t let this crisis go to waste:
1. Wipe out all the known fifth columnists in the State power structure and oligarchy.
2. Wipe out the entire top leadership of Wagner and replace them with a saner bunch.
3. Split Wagner into two or three separate PMCs under separate executive leaders.
4. Form an ostensible “internal security force” under the control of the MoD …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:30 utc | 264

The caterer went nuts, full Kurtz in the jungle psycho. The last few months look like some version of attempted suicide by cop, increasingly unhinged and inexcusable statements. Like a guy with a knife first waving it at the cop, then advancing on the cop, then lunging at them. The guy always seemed a little off, the horrors of war have put him over the edge.

Posted by: muttman | Jun 24 2023 16:30 utc | 265

The author German-language channel Antispiegel.ru has talked with a journalist friend – Alina Lipp – currently in Rostow, who has talked with Wagner-soldiers there. According to their sources, Prigoshin in the military base in Rostow, negotiating with Moscow to resolve his ongoing disagreements with Russian military. Progoshin and his soldiers support Putin, and seem to have – so far – managed to proceed without alienating Russian authorities or civilians.
Achmat-Units have apparently arrived at the outskirts of Rochow, Achmat and Prigoshin have allegedly agreed to fight – if they fight – outside Rostow.
https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/2023/update-prigoschins-coup-war-lange-vorbereitet-derzeit-laufen-verhandlungen/

Posted by: Marvin | Jun 24 2023 16:33 utc | 266

In Friday’s Ask The Inspector episode on Youtube, at the 30 minute mark, Scott Ritter provides a detailed analysis into the truth behind the Progrozin/Wagner situation.

Posted by: Willow | Jun 24 2023 16:34 utc | 267

Fighterbomber on Telegram lists Russian aircraft losses:

3 x Mi-8mtpr
1 x Mi-8
1 x Ka-52
1 x Mi-35
1 x Il-18 vzpu
https://t.me/fighter_bomber/12898

This video shows that the Wagner column has at least one Pantsir air defense missile system.

Residents report that PMCs drove through Buturlinovka without stopping towards Talovaya.
The video shows the city center.
https://t.me/fighter_bomber/12889

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 16:35 utc | 268

271 – Basically, you are expecting him to be Stalin.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:36 utc | 269


Heroes are a sign of ill times and ill governance, for if The State and the people are well governed there is no need for heroes.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:07 utc | 249

Your friend’s insight could hardly be more keen or relevant.
Prigozhin is a symptom of reforms that went so far and then stopped, leaving an incredibly uneven “terrain”, from the sublime of Russia’s unique strengths and capabilities, to the ridiculous impunity of careerists and grifters who’d be the subject of our most robust contempt in any other situation.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2023 16:37 utc | 270

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2023 16:35 utc | 275
If this is true, and Wagner has turned it’s guns against Russians, p=Prigozhin (and Wagner’s leadership with him) are as good as dead.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:37 utc | 271

The influx of trolls is huge, indicating the Empire has activated a big scheme. Despite that, I doubt Prigozhin has been bought off. Though he has been tarred as a money-grubbing businessman, everything I’ve seen so far suggests he is a patriotic ideologue. Those are difficult to buy. Instead I am thinking Prigozhin’s revolution theater triggered one of the Empire’s plans that was being held in reserve. After all, the sanctions were intended to trigger a rebellion by Russia’s oligarch class, and the Empire had to have plans queued up and waiting to exploit that event. Rather than Prigozhin being complicit in a Imperial plot to fracture Russia, I think the Empire has been expecting upheavals in Russia and were just looking for something that looked socially explosive to intervene in.
It may be a little far-fetched, but perhaps getting the Empire to prematurely pull the trigger on these plans might even be among the reasons for Prigozhin’s farcical revolution theater. Of course, it is still much too early to tell. Have to wait until the dust settles.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 24 2023 16:38 utc | 272

Re: uncle tungsten | 10:15 utc | 39
The text is in “blockquotes”, therefore not my statement. Am fully aware of the Skripal case, Chris Steele, Andrew Wood and the so-called RussiaGate which was in fact a setup, should be called IntelliGate.
As sleuth digging into the dodgy dossier by Chris Steele on Jan. 12, 2017 … I had reproduced information from March 2000 spy row.

Russian counter-intelligence sources named Pablo Miller, said to be working as a first secretary at the British embassy in the Estonian capital, Tallinn, as the officer who had recruited the Russian.
The unnamed alleged spy is being held in Moscow’s high-security Lefortovo prison. Sources at the FSB, the federal security service which is the main successor to the KGB, told the Itar-Tass news agency that the alleged spy was “a senior officer of the special services until recently”.
The Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have become fertile ground for western intelligence services since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

“Pablo Miller (OBE) is a senior analyst at Orbis Business Intelligence”
On this info, the British slapped a D-notice on the Skripal link to recruiter Pablo Miller.

Posted by: Oui | Jun 24 2023 16:39 utc | 273

What if he simply is blackmailed? Has he children? If so, where are they?

Posted by: Catilina | Jun 24 2023 16:40 utc | 274

In regard to Russia’s diplomatic standing after this, I would point out an episode of the Sopranos in which Tony deliberately gets angry and makes threats – to scare his crew. He understands that they need some fear in them to maintain his leadership.
Then we have the US itself – which throws poor nations against the wall brutally, every so often – such as Iraq, Libya, Syria. Just to keep everyone on their toes and remind the world who’s boss.
So, the fallout from this might be good if Putin is seen to react decisively and coldly. They can shoot Prigozhin or put him in a hospital gown for the rest of his (short) life. Either way, positive values emerge from their negatives.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 24 2023 16:40 utc | 275

The Wagner convoy has not moved in the last couple of hours.
—> Rumors say, Wagner is negotiating with Putin.
Reminder they ask for the arrest of Shoigu and Gerasimov.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1672645561432915970

It’s stopped.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 24 2023 16:41 utc | 276

If this is a western led regime chainge attempt, time for Vlad to hit the red button.
RSH is having a sleep !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 24 2023 16:41 utc | 277

277 – Zelensky expressed support for the “patriotic ideologue”. Do try to keep up.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:42 utc | 278

This seems to me a “limited hangout”–
Prigozhin has been monitored meticulously since the beginning of the SMO.
There has been a (NATO-inspired) raucous insistence among the Russian military that mercenary armies are “the way of the future.”
Prigozhin’s mutiny will be used as a brutal eradication of any and all pro-NATO ideology.
What we are seeing, now, is the eradication of any rescue of the European economies, and a stark declaration of Russian and Chinese intent to erase the “Monroe Doctrine”.
The US is run by tottering oligarchs who, none of which, have any idea how their schemes will be exposed as the foolish fantasies of doddering imperialist fantasists.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 24 2023 16:42 utc | 279

If this is a western led regime chainge attempt, time for Vlad to hit the red button.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 24 2023 16:41 utc | 281
No one is against Putin, that is a nato fake.
Putin’s approval rate will hit levels unheard before.

Posted by: rk | Jun 24 2023 16:43 utc | 280

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 24 2023 13:47 utc | 149
yes. See here. Prigozhin looks uncharacteristically relaxed, doesn’t he?
NATO press corpse has gone totally off the rails according to a plan that’s been running since the Democratic Party transformed Prigozhin—out of all the oligarchs with “close ties to Putin—into a household name. Recall Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s indictment of Internet Research Agency (IRA), 2018.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2023 16:46 utc | 281

280 – This may be what you think will happen and possibly it is what should happen. That does not mean it will happen.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:47 utc | 282

Can we develop a list of Priggy’s demands ? So far we have:
1) ask for the arrest of Shoigu and Gerasimov.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 24 2023 16:52 utc | 283

Prigozhin follows only the footsteps of Vladimir Lenin in 1917 and Andrei Vlasov in 1943, both which were recruited traitors to break Russia from within. Prigozhin is 100 % SBU / MI6 asset, most likely recruited in March or April, when his tune started to really turn dim and propaganda.
We can now also say it to be likely that Wagner never had shell shortages – Prigozhin was just saying that because they were stashing a lot of shells for later use.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 24 2023 16:52 utc | 284

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:36 utc | 276

Basically, you are expecting him to be Stalin.

I can see how you might think that.
But, no:
I’m expecting him to wield the legitimate tools of State very precisely and surgically (and he is trained for this!) to ensure a network of foreign controlled global interests embedded for at least a century in the Russian power structure are finally removed.
If Putin’s career in the KGB yielded any results towards this end he’d have accumulated, by now, a multi-decade list of names and case files that would allow him to clean the entire wretched gang up within the framework of the Russian legal system.
And if not …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:53 utc | 285

When everything is said and done, I wonder what President Putin as commander-in-chief of the armed forces wants to tell the Russian MOD and the Public why he allowed the insurbodination of Prigozhin, to fester. That felon should have been removed and thrown in jail long ago. But because the President tolerated the indiscipline for so long, now everything is being put in jeopardy.

Posted by: Steve | Jun 24 2023 16:54 utc | 286

.. Form an ostensible “internal security force” under the control of the MoD …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:30 utc | 271

Hell, why not, hand internal security over to Aleksandr Lapin and his sponsors, or, failing that, whatever crew was responsible for the defense strategy of Kakhovka Dam, that’ll show everyone!
Really, do wake up.
That only reforms that matters are to promote the more competent over the less, systematically and consistently, and to squeeze the corrupt out of office, uniform and business.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2023 16:55 utc | 287

@240
They can just wear RF uniforms like the “volunteers” from France, Italy, Holland, UK, Poland, Georgia, etc, do for the AFU
Whoa what a non-surprise – US State Dept small hats got their small hat inside Russia, Preghozhin to turn around and attempt to stab his Gentile-majority host nation in the back.
Who could have predicted it.
Who could have seen it coming. Putin of all people should have seen it coming.

Posted by: farflungstar | Jun 24 2023 16:56 utc | 288

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 24 2023 16:42 utc | 280

Prigozhin has been monitored meticulously since the beginning of the SMO.
Prigozhin’s mutiny will be used as a brutal eradication of any and all pro-NATO ideology.

That is what I think this is.
It’s a cleanup job by Putin.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 16:57 utc | 289

286 – The question might then be asked why a head of state who is after all an ex-KGB apparatchik has not done these things.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:57 utc | 290

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2023 15:20 utc | 215
Not necessarily meaningful but the timing is a little extraordinary. Literally within days – if not hours – of the infamous counter-offensive being judged dead in the water. If this is engineered, then P’s earlier diatribes could be regarded as foreshadowing, setting the predicates for later events.
Of course, it’s quite possible that this is just exposure of internal stresses and as b’s brilliant Machiavelli quote highlighted, merceneries, being outside the purist chain of command, are a dodgy business and cannot be relied upon to always toe the line.
But IF the overall shift to CTO is true – though have not seen it confirmed so perhaps it isn’t – that seems like an over-reaction in which case the whole business is a bit more suspicious.
Oh well, at some point it will all become a little clearer. But the timing is a bit suspect IMO, just as the whole SMO started literally just as covid restrictions in Europe were getting loosened finally. Etrange…. (like Macron trying to join BRICS, though of course it’s the right thing for his country so why not?).

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2023 16:59 utc | 291

277 – Zelensky expressed support for the “patriotic ideologue”.
Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 16:42 utc | 279
Why would he say that?

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2023 17:00 utc | 292

Any thoughts of this being theater should have vanished as soon as Putin uttered the word treason. That isn’t a statement that can be walked back by the head of state. As Ritter stated, this is a MI5/CIA operation.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Jun 24 2023 17:02 utc | 293

293 – Playing on divisions inside Russia. It is pretty obvious he and NATO hope Prigozhin will either win (still a long shot) or at least cause enough chaos that they benefit. Prigozhin has also suddenly been denouncing the SMO, and this is grist to the mill in Kiev.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 17:04 utc | 294

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2023 16:55 utc | 288

That only reforms that matters are to promote the more competent over the less, systematically and consistently, and to squeeze the corrupt out of office, uniform and business.

If you’ve ever tried to do this in a real organisation, as I have, you’d know that you face three formidable opponents:
– Internal friction of the existing bureaucracy which acts almost like an independent living organism in itself.
– Direct resistance, sometimes lethal, from existing power centers within that bureaucracy.
– The risk of even minor changes collapsing a house of cards (The State) built in legacy corrupt foundations.
And one overarching threat:
– The fact that your time is limited and reform has to be done within a certain time or it’s gains will be lost to organisational inertia.
What this means is that while proceeding “systematically and consistently” is good organisational practice in general, the time needed for this to achieve any measurably reform is limited.
Sometimes a radical act of change is required to create the conditions supporting “systematically and consistently” …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 17:05 utc | 295

rybar 19:00 hours relating to caravan.

PMC “Wagner” to Moscow what is known as 19.00
The leadership of the counter-terrorist operation to suppress the rebellion of Yevgeny Prigozhin and the PMC “Wagner” decided to equip the border along the southern bank of the Oka River to prevent the “Wagnerites” from advancing towards Moscow.
▪️There is no exact data on where exactly the PMC is located. According to rumors, in Serpukhov, locals heard a shooting battle, and in Kashira they saw PMCs.
▪️Mobile reserve units from other regions of Russia were transferred to Moscow by military transport aviation. Soldiers are sent by train from St. Petersburg. In some military units in Moscow and the region, a collection of vacationers has been announced by the end of June 24.
▪️The Chechen units of “Akhmat” have not yet reached the center of Rostov-on-Don: PMC units are still holding the defense on the spot.
▪️Ukrainian information warfare agencies are actively throwing in fakes, trying to discredit the RF Armed Forces and bring even more confusion. This does not negate the fact that on the ground PMC “Wagner” enjoys situational support because the fighters of the RF Armed Forces also had the same questions to the leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense. This, among other things, is due to the rapid advance of PMCs to the capital.
🔻In general, the situation is close to completion: we do not believe in prolonged urban fighting in the capital in case of further escalation of the situation.
According to unverified information, in a couple of hours in Moscow and the region, they should begin to jam mobile communications and the Internet.
If this happens, the night events in Moscow will remain, in many respects, a secret, and we will learn about the results of the rebellious “justice march” after the completion of this grandiose action. There are enough questions about the ongoing events: much is done so deliberately that you seriously feel like the hero of some tricky chess game.
https://t.me/rybar/48967
related info-map https://rybar.ru/piwigo/upload/2023/06/24/20230624190204-1d23d8fc.jpg (eng version)

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 17:06 utc | 296

293 – The state’s very authority is under question. So yes. Even negotiating is problematic as it gives the “partner” legitimacy. But if Putin orders the armed forces to go in hard, will they obey?

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 24 2023 17:08 utc | 297

Why would he say that?
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2023 17:00 utc

More like why wouldn’t he?

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 17:10 utc | 298

rk @ 281
You may be right our views aren’t conflicting except your “no one is against Putin” is obveously to sweeping, but I get your jist.
All very convenient and coincidental 2 weeks before the NATO summit.
Gives them something to crow about and distract from Nato’s car crash Ukraine offecive.
Send a few ‘negotiators to Langley.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 24 2023 17:11 utc | 299

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 24 2023 17:06 utc | 296

▪️Ukrainian information warfare agencies are actively throwing in fakes, trying to discredit the RF Armed Forces and bring even more confusion. …

We saw and are still seeing a lot of this on MoA from the moment the SHTF.
I marvel, as I have on many occasions, at MoA’s ability to act as an “advance radar” for such events.
Just watch the troll patterns …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 24 2023 17:11 utc | 300