Media: One Side "Says" - The Other "Provides No Evidence"
The recent reporting on the conflict in Ukraine in 'western' media has reveled a deceiving scheme in which baseless claims from Kiev are taken for granted while everything Moscow says, even when based on facts, is put into doubt.
Here are a few examples:
White House dismisses ‘ludicrous’ Russian claims US planned Kremlin drone strikes - Guardian - May 4, 2023
Asked about an accusation by the Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, that Washington had ordered Wednesday’s strike, John Kirby, the US National Security Council spokesman, said: “One thing I can tell you for certain is that the US did not have any involvement with this incident, contrary to Mr Peskov’s lies, and that’s just what they are: lies.”
...
Earlier on Thursday, Peskov claimed the US had “dictated” the plan of what Russia said was a drone attack on the Kremlin intended to kill Vladimir Putin. Peskov did not provide any evidence to support the allegations.
What evidence did the U.S. provide?
Ukrainian forces advance on Russians, deny ‘counteroffensive’ has begun - Washington Post - June 5, 2023
Ukraine’s military made gains against Russian forces in multiple locations along the eastern front, the country’s deputy defense minister said Monday, as an increasing cadence in combat operations raised speculation that the much-anticipated counteroffensive was finally imminent.Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar wrote on Telegram that troops conducted multiple “offensive actions” in the eastern Donetsk region despite “stiff resistance and the enemy’s attempts to hold the occupied lines and positions.”
But Ukrainian officials denied claims by Moscow that they had launched the counteroffensive — and that Russian troops had thwarted it.
A spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said Ukrainian forces had started the counteroffensive by trying to push through five areas of the Russian line in Donetsk but had been repelled. The statement by Lt. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, in a video posted by the Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novosti, could not be verified.
The piece repeats the claims of "gains" made by the Ukrainian side but puts the Russian claim into doubt. How many of Ukrainian claims of victories "could not be verified" but were senselessly repeated?
Ukrainian Armed Forces say they have no information on “large scale offensive” in Donetsk region - CNN - June 5, 2023
Ukraine does “not have information” on the “large-scale offensive” that Russian claims was launched against them in Donetsk region, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian armed forces Bohdan Senyk, told CNN.On Monday, Russia claimed they have repelled, killed and captured multiple Ukrainian units in the region, but did not provide any evidence of the fact.
Next case:
Key Ukrainian dam blown up, Kyiv blames Russia - Politico - June 6, 2023
Ukraine blamed Russia for explosions at a key dam, which unleashed massive flooding and threatened 80 settlements in what Kyiv says is a last-ditch attempt to derail its counteroffensive.In a statement, Ukraine's Southern Operational Command said "Russian occupation troops blew up the dam" at Nova Kakhovka, in the Kherson region in eastern Ukraine.
...
The Russian-installed mayor of Nova Kakhovka, Vladimir Leontiev, denied allegations the dam had been sabotaged by the Kremlin's forces and claimed Ukraine was responsible for the damage, according to Russian state media. Leontiev did not provide any evidence for his claims.
Neither did Ukraine for its claims but there is not even a hint in the piece that Kiev may be lying.
And another one:
Ukraine Mounts Multiple Attacks on Russian Occupiers - New York Times - June 8, 2023
On one side - just flat out statements taken for granted:
Three senior U.S. officials, as well as military analysts, said that a long-awaited major Ukrainian counteroffensive appeared to be underway, after months spent mobilizing and training new units, and arming them with advanced Western weapons.
...
Kyiv said little about the intensified fighting, neither confirming nor denying Russian claims, and Ukrainian officials have said they will not discuss details for reasons of operational secrecy.
...
A Ukrainian deputy defense minister, Hanna Malyar, said a battle was underway in the area of a larger town about 10 miles away in the neighboring Donetsk region, Velyka Novosilka, but it was unclear if she was referring to the same clash.
The other side's claims are depicted as dubious:
The Russian war bloggers, who have become a major source of information from the front lines, said Ukraine’s forces had suffered heavy losses, though such claims could not be confirmed and in the past have often been exaggerated.
...
The Russian account, like most claims about what was happening at the front, could not be confirmed independently, but videos verified by The New York Times showed a Ukrainian armored vehicle near Velyka Novosilka hitting a land mine.
I could add a dozen more pieces that follow the scheme. Ukrainian or U.S. claims lead the piece without being put into doubt. Russian counterclaims come a few paragraphs down and are immediately said to lack any evidence.
By the way: What the New York Times claims to have confirmed via video is just one of many screw ups on the Ukrainian side that can be seen these days.
Over the last 48 hours I have watched half a dozen drone videos of Ukrainian vehicles rumbling in tight columns over open fields, without minesweepers, without smokescreen or artillery cover, only to get blown up in minefields and massacred by anti-tank missiles.
No seasoned platoon or company leader would plan and execute attacks like that but, watching those videos, I doubt that the Ukraine still has any of those.
Then we have this:
Ukrainian forces have suffered losses in heavy equipment and soldiers as they met greater than expected resistance from Russian forces in their first attempt to breach Russian lines in the east of the country in recent days, two senior US officials tell CNN.One US official described the losses – which include US supplied MRAP armored personnel vehicles as “significant.”
Did any of the U.S. or NATO leaders really think that the Ukrainian forces would have a f***ing chance by senselessly running into well prepared Russian defenses? Really???
Posted by b on June 9, 2023 at 8:25 UTC | Permalink
next page »I also saw these videos, and much more. And as a German, I am especially happy about the burning Leo(s).
Delivering weapons to Ukraine is so fare the biggest crime in our century - and I do hope, "the West" will pay a price for that. Here in Germany, we already can sense the price tag for these decisions, but I do hope it's just the beginning.
Posted by: Klaus | Jun 9 2023 8:38 utc | 2
From Guardian 'live' report, a nice example of the genre:
Ukraine's security service claims to have intercepted call proving Russia blew up dam
Ukraine’s domestic security service said on Friday it had intercepted a telephone call proving Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka hydroelectric station and dam in southern Ukraine’s Kherson region.
The security service of Ukraine posted a one-and-a-half minute audio clip of the alleged conversation on its Telegram channel.
More details soon …
Posted by: Deeplurker | Jun 9 2023 8:39 utc | 3
To be fair, MoA often presents Russian (and Chinese, and Iranian) claims as if it can be assumed they're the gospel truth.
The fact is... all governments lie when they have reason to. And they quite often lie even when it's not apparent what the reason might be.
If you start looking at governments as Chomsky suggested - basically, just crime families squabbling (or temporarily allying) over territory and resources, while extorting protection money from their citizens - then their behaviour starts making a great deal more sense.
Posted by: Observer | Jun 9 2023 8:54 utc | 4
N.A.T.O didn't think the Russians would be able get anywhere either. I think the Russians are fighting a battle 10x harder than they are getting credit for
Posted by: OohCanada | Jun 9 2023 8:55 utc | 6
FORMER NATO HEAD: SOME COUNTRIES CONSIDERING TROOP DEPLOYMENT IN UKRAINE
…..The former civilian head of the NATO alliance has warned that some Eastern European states are prepared to send their soldiers to Ukraine if the bloc does not make significant pledges to Kiev at an upcoming summit.
Anders Rasmussen, former NATO secretary-general and a current adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, is touring Europe and Washington to gauge the level of support Kiev should expect at the Vilnius summit in July.
“I think the Poles would seriously consider going in and assemble a coalition of the willing if Ukraine doesn’t get anything in Vilnius,” he said. “We shouldn’t underestimate the Polish feelings, the Poles feel that for too long western Europe did not listen to their warnings against the true Russian mentality.”
Poland and the Baltic states may send troops to Ukraine if the alliance fails to make a strong enough commitment to Kiev in Lithuania, according to Rasmussen. “If NATO cannot agree on a clear path forward for Ukraine, there is a clear possibility that some countries individually might take action. We know that Poland is very engaged in providing concrete assistance to Ukraine,” he continued. “I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that Poland would engage even stronger in this context on a national basis and be followed by the Baltic states, maybe including the possibility of troops on the ground………(link to rest of article)
https://libertarianinstitute.org/news/some-nato-countries-are-considering-sending-troops-to-ukraine/
Posted by: Exile | Jun 9 2023 8:55 utc | 7
Ukrainian forces have suffered losses in heavy equipment and soldiers...
One US official described the losses – which include US supplied MRAP armored personnel vehicles as “significant.”
I like that conflation of personnel and equipment. Which losses are more significant?
Posted by: clueless | Jun 9 2023 8:56 utc | 8
I say the west is being led to its ultimate demise by a bunch of lying, incompetent, greedy morons, and i see plenty of evidence of that.
Posted by: Et Tu | Jun 9 2023 8:56 utc | 9
@ deeplurker #3
Reminds me of the intercepted radio transmissions the US said "proved" Assad had gassed "his own" people.
Their source?
Why, those nice Israeli chappies! They'd never lie, right?
Posted by: Observer | Jun 9 2023 8:57 utc | 10
Over the last 48 hours I have watched half a dozen drone videos of Ukrainian vehicles rumbling in tight columns over open fields, without minesweepers, without smokescreen or artillery cover, only to get blown up in minefields and massacred by anti-tank missiles.
Why would you post a paragraph like the above and not refer to any source?
Then you go on to an armchair-general's foregone conclusion:
No seasoned platoon or company leader would plan and execute attacks like that but, watching those videos, I doubt that the Ukraine still has any of those.
Your critique is just as manipulative and tediously presumptive as that which is supposed to be considered.
Posted by: Arrnon | Jun 9 2023 8:59 utc | 11
The media narrative continues to change, though. Now they're finally admitting that Ukrainians are fleeing conscription.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jun 9 2023 9:07 utc | 12
THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF THE WEST
I think this would qualify as a zrada
Posted by: leaf | Jun 9 2023 9:13 utc | 13
Posted by: Exile | Jun 9 2023 8:55 utc | 7From Anders Rasmussen's tirade. I wasn't aware of that quote, thank you for spelling it out. Little steps towards dehumanisation until we get to Untermensch and Lebensraum. Looks like this has been thoroughly understood by Russian citizens and leadership, and they know what they are up against - again."...true Russian mentality.”
And later, after it all came tumbling down and there's red flags in Western capitols, everyone will be so shocked and didn't know of anything. Sickening.
Posted by: Konami | Jun 9 2023 9:25 utc | 14
During a meeting in Paris on June 12, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Polish President Andrzej Duda will discuss security guarantees for Ukraine with French leader Emmanuel Macron.- Politico on June 9, citing sources.
Well, there's only one security guarantee for Kiev, that is, to join the Russian Federation.
Posted by: ostro | Jun 9 2023 9:29 utc | 15
On the night of Thursday, with forces of up to 1,500 men and 150 armored vehicles, the enemy again tried to break through our defenses, but was detected in a timely manner and, having received a rebuff, withdrew with heavy losses.- Sergei ShoiguLosses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a result of a two-hour battle amounted to 30 tanks, 11 infantry fighting vehicles, up to 350 people.
Posted by: ostro | Jun 9 2023 9:32 utc | 16
There is an unfortunate tendency for people to believe their own BS
Yes it does happen on the pro-Russian side too
But it is an order of magnitude greater in the West - there is a cult of the narrative where anything that does not fit into the great sweeping dogma is automatically rejected until this becomes unsustainable, then it it like a child being told there is no Father Christmas
Some people think that the western leadership puts out a lot of junk to keep the masses ignorant / happy but knows the true picture and will act rationally - I fear that this view is mistaken and that these delusional people may well do something truly, horrifyingly stupid
Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 9 2023 9:36 utc | 17
Seemorerocks Telegram Channel Reports.....
https://t.me/seemorerocks/49329
As of 4:32 PM EDT today, June 8, 2023, there are presently 431 US Military aircraft, in the air, over the continental United States! This is FOUR TIMES the typical number
Moments ago, I received this email:
"I live near Oceanside, not far from Camp Pendleton. I have to drive about 20 miles every day for work down to San Diego. Today I noticed the US Navy has put upwards of twenty naval ships offshore at various points along the way I drive, and there are military trucks with missiles aimed out toward the sea at a number of locations. Activity at Camp Pendleton is at a level I have never seen before. Something very big is coming. I have a sick feeling about this."
Anyone else know anything about this???
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 9 2023 9:44 utc | 18
Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 9 2023 9:44 utc | 18
-----------
You never know with North Korea ready to strike at the US. Or, maybe they have 'noticed' the Russian Pacific Fleet somewhere...
Posted by: ostro | Jun 9 2023 9:48 utc | 19
Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 9 2023 9:36 utc | 17
A real clobber list post that went by unquestioned:
"Up to 415 Ukrainian servicemen, two tanks, nine armored combat vehicles, six cars, a self-propelled artillery installation "Gvozdika", as well as a howitzer "Msta-B" were destroyed during the day.
As a result of the fire damage of a column of Ukrainian armored vehicles advancing in the direction of the October state farm, most of the armored vehicles were destroyed.
In total, over 190 Ukrainian servicemen, 8 tanks, including two AMX-10 wheeled tanks made in France, 20 armored combat vehicles, 12 vehicles, the M777 artillery system made in the USA, the Gvozdika self-propelled artillery installation, D-20 and D-30 howitzers were destroyed in the South Donetsk direction during the day.
During the day, more than 50 Ukrainian servicemen, three armored combat vehicles, two cars, as well as a Paladin self-propelled artillery unit manufactured by the United States were destroyed in this direction.
More than 70 Ukrainian servicemen, two infantry fighting vehicles, five cars, a self-propelled artillery installation "Gvozdika", as well as a D-20 howitzer were destroyed during the day.
In the Kherson direction, as a result of fire damage over the past day, up to 60 Ukrainian servicemen, five armored combat vehicles, two pickups, an M777 artillery system manufactured by the United States, a self-propelled artillery installation "Gvozdika", as well as a howitzer "Msta-B" were destroyed.
There are no casualties among Russian servicemen."
Posted by: Old Fart Legion | Jun 9 2023 10:14 utc | 20
This "compliance" rise is a legitimate stealth weapon fear - in context we daily see a totally compliant media pumping narratives til it folds then switch to next event lie without retraction or apology.
At work one can't be authorized to attend conferences unless venue and event are corporate compliance cleared. Suppliers audit cowed to compliance standards, mindlessly following buzzwords. Gaps are being taken out for global dirigisme to mature to it's darkest self.
Posted by: Mercury | Jun 9 2023 10:20 utc | 21
@Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 9 2023 9:44 #18
I'm not sure what's happening but I'm in central Massachusetts and the other day, early morning, there were two very large military transport planes flying very, very low (had to be under 1000 feet) over my neighborhood. They were moving in a north-south direction. There used to be a very large army base in town, Fort Devens. But, as you probably know, the elites seem to have their priorities more on foreign interests and there is no more Fort Devens. 800 military bases all over the globe and increasing. Yet, more and more bases closed on US soil. Guess we're not so much of a priority anymore...
Posted by: zeke2u | Jun 9 2023 10:22 utc | 22
That NYT article is by Schmitt and Kramer which makes it questionable. Also, like many Times employees' work on the war, is protected by comments being disabled.
Posted by: Bart Hansen | Jun 9 2023 10:50 utc | 23
This pattern of
- Ukraine says / USA-UK say
- Russia claims
has been going on for a while now. I noticed the BBC doing it in reports in the middle of 2022.
It's hard to trust the western media with such obvious bias.
Posted by: DaveZ | Jun 9 2023 10:51 utc | 24
DaveZ | Jun 9 2023 10:51 utc | 24
--------------
BBC appears to think that the British are foolish enough to trust what it says...
It is actually good for Russia, when the 'western' people think that way. It is excellent that BBC, CNN and such like continues with that 'disinformation.'. The disinformed are easy to conquer... :)
Posted by: ostro | Jun 9 2023 11:02 utc | 25
To the hyperventilating Americans in the comments section trying to freak each other out - 'something big is going to happen' - calm the f--- down. You do tend to sh|t the bed easily and you certainly deserve to be invaded and turned into gimp play toys but infortunately mainland USA is not in any danger. Take your Xanax and call your shrinks.
Back on topic: it is not just the newspapers ingaged in this intellectual dishonesty (lying and straight-up BS, actually) but also purported academics such as Andreas Kappeler whose book 'Kleine Geschichte der Ukraine' is just pure Ukie propaganda. NATO encrochement on Russia is never metioned. There is no fascist in Ukraine. The Maidan was a genuine, pure democratic grassroots movement and not a Putsch, etc, etc. Just really depressing stuff. Of course Herr Krappeler (lol) is a member of the esteemed Ukrainian Academy for Sciences.
Another Example is Anne Applebaum writing articles for the Encyclopedia Britannica. The system is rotten through and through. This anti-intellectual behaviour is actually counter to their vaunted Western value of truth, integrity, blah, blah. I feel there is little hope for the West and much of what Orwell and Huxley foresaw is coming to pass. What is wrong with these people? Evil? Stupid? Ambitious? Gullible? Or am I for having believed truth, honesty, integrity have any value? Thanks for hearing me out.
Posted by: Wæsfjord | Jun 9 2023 11:02 utc | 26
Here's the conversation:
In the conversation the first speaker starts by saying: “News. Yesterday there was a video in the Telegram channel – a soldier was standing there, his face covered, in his uniform. And he says there is no flooding, that people are living normally. And behind him there is a window and you can see knee-deep water.”
The second speaker says: “It’s funny. Is it about the fact that the hydroelectric power plant was destroyed?”
The conversation continued:
Speaker one: Yeah. The main problem is that the hydropower plant cools their nuclear reactor.
Speaker two: That’s fine. They did it to themselves. It’ll blow up and that’s it.
Speaker one: So our guys did it. It’s not them, it’s ours.
Speaker two: Really, it was ours? They said that the Khokhols [derogatory term for Ukrainians] blew it up.
Speaker one: They didn’t blow it up. Our saboteur group is there. They wanted to cause fear with this dam. It did not go according to the plan. More than they planned.
Speaker two: Yeah, well, naturally. It’s gonna be like Chornobyl, right?
Speaker one: Built in the 1950s. It went down fast, it went down.
There is an audio if it with eng subtitles too at the Guardian.
It's pathetic.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jun 9 2023 11:04 utc | 27
Tonight, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation carried out a group strike with long-range, sea- and air-based high-precision weapons against warehouses of foreign-made ammunition, weapons and military equipment, including unmanned aerial vehicles.
All assigned objects are hit.
As a result of the strikes, the supply of groups of Ukrainian troops in the areas of combat operations was disrupted.
--------------
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
Posted by: ostro | Jun 9 2023 11:25 utc | 28
Sigh... Who cares? Who's surprised?
Must be a slow news day, b, if you're covering the MSM. Better be careful - you'll end up like Glenn Greenwald who spends most of his time criticizing the MSM, instead of covering what is important.
It's like the old joke:
Q) Why are academic disputes so vicious?
A) Because the stakes are so low.
Criticizing the MSM is like condemning pedophiles or disliking roaches - it's too easy.
Martyanov has the same unfortunate habit of ranting every day about what low-life, imbecilic liars all news people are.
Because it's so obviously true it gets boring after a while.
Even Hitler accurately criticized the MSM of his day in "Mein Kampf". Even he couldn't bollix that up.
If you're looking for intellectual integrity from a normal human, you're seriously barking up the wrong tree.
Posted by: Wæsfjord | Jun 9 2023 11:02 utc | 26
"Gullible? Or am I for having believed truth, honesty, integrity have any value?"
It's like they say: It doesn't matter what you say. What matters is your posture when you say it. The MSM has "posture". That's why they're called "the mainstream media". b and MoA are like the poodle barking at the mastiff. He just ignores your barks because you are zero threat to him.
Anyone wants to be a threat to the MSM - shoot one of them in the head. Better yet, set up a regular program of shooting them in the head.
I read somewhere years ago that in the Middle East at least, the Soviets back in the day used to have a program for influencing the media. If someone didn't toe the desired line, they got kidnapped and "re-educated" - or shot. Then the rest of the media fell in line. That's how Washington does it - without the shooting part. If a news person doesn't toe the line, his career is over. Since he needs to put his kids through the same Ivy League college he went through, they go along.
Ostracism and being homeless is a powerful motivator for most humans - or at least those who haven't already suffered it.
It's pointless to even care any more about "journalism". It doesn't exist except on blogs, and places like Substack. And those have only the influence that any small operation with limited resources has - none.
I remember reading statistics that showed one alternative news outlet - I forget which one, one of the Russian outlets or maybe it was Al Jazeera - had access to only 2 percent of the US population total via all modes. That was just the access - the population that could theoretically view their content on various channels - the number of actual viewers was probably a small fraction of that. And this was a media organization with actual resources: studios, personnel, on-the-ground investigation capability, funding.
Two percent. Maximum.
It's not going to change. So as they say, fergeddaboudit.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 9 2023 11:28 utc | 29
Below is more from that message a few days ago by Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar. Her story of significant Ukrainian success in Bakhmut makes it even more questionable but the WaPo article casts doubt on Russia's statement instead.
In particular, the Bakhmut direction remains the epicenter of hostilities. There we are moving along a fairly wide front. We are successful. We occupy the dominant heights. The enemy is on the defensive and wants to hold his position.In the south - the enemy is on the defensive. Fighting of local importance continues.
Why are the Russians actively releasing information about a counteroffensive?
Because they need to divert attention from the defeat in the Bakhmut direction.
Posted by: Brendan | Jun 9 2023 11:31 utc | 30
@aarnon
"Over the last 48 hours I have watched half a dozen drone videos of Ukrainian vehicles rumbling in tight columns over open fields, without minesweepers, without smokescreen or artillery cover, only to get blown up in minefields and massacred by anti-tank missiles."
Why would you post a paragraph like the above and not refer to any source?
Then you go on to an armchair-general's foregone conclusion:
"No seasoned platoon or company leader would plan and execute attacks like that but, watching those videos, I doubt that the Ukraine still has any of those."
Your critique is just as manipulative and tediously presumptive as that which is supposed to be considered.
So Arrnon says that b "did not provide any evidence!" This is a comment to post that demonstrates how laughable such remarks are.
For your enlightenment here is some of the 'evidence':
Ukr column running into mines again - Zaporozhye front
Footage from the recent fighting from the 🇷🇺"Kaskad" Bgd which is fighting on the South Donetsk frontline (adjacent to the Zap Front)
Ukr tank going over a mine — Zaporozhye Front
💥AFU column getting hammered by Russian Artillery at Novodarovka (Zap Region)
Losing 2 tanks in a few seconds ...
Kind of a holy shit video, yet again of a Ka-52. If this is how Ukes are moving around at night w/o AD this really is a turkey shoot
Simplicius also put up a number of videos in this post:
Offensive Confirmed: AFU Strikes Hard But Leopards Get Spayed
Arron also says: "Then you go on to an armchair-general's foregone conclusion:"
THIMC: This 'armchair general' once was an officer in a German tank battalion, well trained in the movement and tactics of combined arms warfare. I can thus judge and call out amateur level deployment of troops when I see it.
Gogh Rasmussen is a former NATO employee and prime minister of Denmark. Now he is braying again, as a war mongering psychopath that he is. How come he is not in front of a court, for his involvement in the war with Iraq together with Bush and Blair.?
It seems it is only small scale black tin pot dictators that get charged. They are usually involved in the killings of thousands or hundreds. The real criminals are responsible for deaths of hundreds of thousands or even millions, and they get decorated and promoted. And are multi millionaires
I hope God is watching. And planning!
Posted by: G wiltek | Jun 9 2023 11:41 utc | 32
Probably the most egregious example of what MOA points out here is a reporting of what Donald Trump said about nuclear war awhile ago. “‘The biggest problem isn’t global warming, it’s nuclear warming’” said Trump , without providing any evidence.” So, evidence needs to be provided that nuclear war is bad?
https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/trump-nuclear-warming-tucker-carlson-b2318264.html
Posted by: Johnny Boy | Jun 9 2023 11:50 utc | 34
Posted by: G wiltek | Jun 9 2023 11:42 utc | 33
No it should be 'Gogh' as in 'Gog and Magog'.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 9 2023 11:53 utc | 35
Posted by: G wiltek | Jun 9 2023 11:42 utc | 33
Yeah, the Fogh of war, the brain Fogh LOL.
Posted by: Deeplurker | Jun 9 2023 11:57 utc | 36
I cant get into my head how people like mr Observer that when you 're within a fierce drought one single drop of water is a big gallon for a drinker. And when you are under a multiple layer of a building debris a one sq meter space under the stairs is a sanctuary.
AND so, we must be grand explicit here...mr observer, a claim by Russians or overwhelmed Iranians under a deluge of western lies has all the likeliness to be true.
The Guardian is reporting that authorities (Ukrainian and otherwise non-Russian) are alleging seismic data suggests the dam was indeed blown up and that the detonation had to have come from inside the dam, as it was designed to withstand nuclear explosions, meaning multiple direct aerial bombings would have been required to destroy it if attacked externally. Hopefully Russian authorities will be able to clarify these allegations soon.
Posted by: Ludovic | Jun 9 2023 11:59 utc | 38
@zeke2u | Jun 9 2023 10:22 utc | 22
I live on the south shore in Ma. next to a county airport. For a county airport there has been much military movement regarding military helicopters off on loading and conducting military operations. This same airport during the Obama era was a training base for the Air Force in drone operations. I used to see 5-10 drones being launched and being landed almost daily. In the skies above they were everywhere. People used to think I was crazy talking about these drones until I captured them on video one day at the airport. It sure shut up the doubters. How can the military use a civilian airport to conduct training exercises? Isn't that in our constitution that we do not have a standing army in civilian areas?
Posted by: gringo | Jun 9 2023 12:01 utc | 39
@38 Ludovic
I think Simplicius in his latest mentions some Norwegian seismic data, but suggests its inconclusive as to cause...
Posted by: Deeplurker | Jun 9 2023 12:03 utc | 40
We heard insider Zelensky office source that Zaluzhny isn’t leading due to ”disagreements”. Syrsky reported that due to losses the advance has turned into positional. In other words, offensive bogged. RU even took back the hill near Robatino and supposedly another location west of it. But AFU still has uncommitted punch back somewhere, for sure. But no doubt, so does RU further south.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2023 12:06 utc | 41
gringo:
wrt your last question: nothing in the Constitution. You might be thinking of the Posse Comitatus Act, which has subsequently been watered down into meaninglessness.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 9 2023 12:13 utc | 42
I say the west is being led to its ultimate demise by a bunch of lying, incompetent, greedy morons, and i see plenty of evidence of that.
Posted by: Et Tu | Jun 9 2023 8:56 utc | 9
No argument can be made against this statement.
Posted by: jpc | Jun 9 2023 12:17 utc | 43
I was a very long term lurker here before I ever posted anything. b has been very spot on about many different subjects, especially military ones. He is one of my major sources for getting the truth. The "bar" has many great people as well, who provide additional links and information surrounding whichever subject is being discussed. The trolls are easily identified and ignored. Could be their only income possibly.
As for the MSM? I stopped watching or listening to them many years ago when they switched from reporting the news professionally to resembling a late night infomercial. Yelling at the screen and over embellishing talking points. You gotta be a great actor to report the news for them now. There is one thing that the MSM does right, it let's us know the truth. Whatever narrative they are pushing, you can pretty much guarantee the opposite is true. As for the mixed reporting on the counter offensive, I truly believe they are in panic mode. The offensive will be a lot of nothing. Russia will advance and the west will continue to kick and scream while the rest of the world moves on and puts the US in a time out.
I feel sorry mostly for Europeans. The EU has royally screwed over its population by obeying their masters in the US. Hopefully some elections or uprisings change that. Nothing would be greater than seeing the US and its couple poodles isolated completely.
Posted by: Watzov | Jun 9 2023 12:32 utc | 44
b | Jun 9 2023 11:36 utc | 31
Thank you b. The level of arrogance of some commenters is quite revealing...
Posted by: tawharanui | Jun 9 2023 12:36 utc | 45
Re: White House dismisses ‘ludicrous’ Russian claims US planned Kremlin drone strikes:
This is perfectly reasonable journalism by the Guardian.
If I accuse someone of a heinous crime, the onus is on me to prove they actually committed the crime, or at least to "provide evidence to support the allegations".
If I cannot provide any evidence, it is well within the right of the accused to call 'lies' without having to defend anything.
Posted by: jeddeh | Jun 9 2023 12:36 utc | 46
jeddeh | Jun 9 2023 12:36 utc | 46
Ah, but the west is accusing Russia of all sorts of crimes continuously, without presenting robust evidence, and these accusations are nearly all reported at face value without any caveats that no evidence has been provided.
Posted by: tawharanui | Jun 9 2023 12:43 utc | 47
"To be fair, MoA often presents Russian (and Chinese, and Iranian) claims as if it can be assumed they're the gospel truth."
And, to be even more fair, most often they simply are gospel truth. The stories and explanations regularly put out by Kiev and its puppet masters in Washington, on the other hand, are almost always lies worthy of the Father of Lies. Moscow's occasional exaggerations pale by comparison with the machinegun mendacity of Zelenskyy and company.
Posted by: Jack Gordon | Jun 9 2023 12:44 utc | 48
The taxpayers are very happy with these photos posted by the Russians
Posted by: Crazy champ | Jun 9 2023 12:54 utc | 50
Did any of the U.S. or NATO leaders really think that the Ukrainian forces would have a f***ing chance by senselessly running into well prepared Russian defenses? Really???Well. I don't know if Evgeny Prigozhin believes anything he says about the Russian army. But it certainly seems that U.S. and NATO leaders believed his every word.
Posted by: Martina | Jun 9 2023 12:57 utc | 51
[email protected] man, watch the damn videos.....see the iron melting in the mine fields, no one needs to be a professional to figure out they are being slaughtered....armchair my ass......Brit by any chance?
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 9 2023 12:57 utc | 52
Exile | Jun 9 2023 8:55 utc | 7, who posted an undated extract from libertarianpressitute.org;
with the claim that ‘...former civilian head of the NATO alliance..Rasmussen [said] “If NATO cannot agree on a clear path forward for Ukraine, there is a clear possibility that some countries individually might take action. We know that Poland is very engaged in providing concrete assistance to Ukraine,” he continued. “I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that Poland would engage even stronger in this context on a national basis and be followed by the Baltic states, maybe including the possibility of troops on the ground…” So, beyond ‘may’ and ‘might’ there are both ‘possibilities’ and ‘possible actions’!
I wonder what the populations of the countries mentioned feel about declaring war on Russia? This is very similar writing style that b’s article illustrates – no need for evidence.
Yes DaveZ | Jun 9 2023 10:51 utc | 24 the BBC pressitutes/state employees are old hands at such linguistic manipulations. They even use it on their sport channel to hype up the distractions to real world events.
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Jun 9 2023 12:59 utc | 53
DONETSK, LUHANSK, AND ZAPORIZHZHIA:
The Russian bear has a firm grip upon Donetsk, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia. This grip upon these 3 areas has tighten due to two recent events.
The fall of Bahkmut last month, May 2023, showed that Ukraine could not hold onto its strongest fortress in Donetsk.
The stopping of the recent Ukrainian offensive shows that Ukraine can not make any noticeable gains on the front lines after launching its best offensive against the Russian.
It will become evident to Ukraine and the world, that Donetsk, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia is Russia's. I don't think this will take long.
Posted by: young | Jun 9 2023 13:03 utc | 55
There used to be a cure for this. Egg on face.
Posted by: Jonathan Widell | Jun 9 2023 13:07 utc | 56
Latest Dreizin report has a small audio podcast about the elitest-elite Nato 47th brigade, with the best guys, commanders, best equipment and Leopards - the brigade got its teeth knocked out in the last few days near Zaporozhye. That is the best of Nato, big.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2023 13:08 utc | 57
Well - ‘fog’ of war
https://twitter.com/KirstenHillmanA/status/1666530971607347202
https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1666886561932115968
https://twitter.com/army_SM_armee/status/1666837698953216000
https://twitter.com/RoyalCanNavy/status/1667002097168965636
https://twitter.com/CanadianArmy/status/1666822400179306496
And so on and so forth. Food for thought.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 9 2023 13:09 utc | 58
I know this is a Ukraine thread but we all know the real war is the US vs Russia. The beginning of next month will mark the 80th anniversary of one of modern history's most significant battles, that of Kursk between the CCCP and fascist Germany. Including the greatest tank battle of all time, Kursk demonstrated for the first time, the heroic victory at Stalingrad earlier in the year ('43) notwithstanding, that the Red Army was superior in all respects to Hitler's Nazi divisions. Stalingrad proved that the Germans weren't invincible. Kursk began the counter-offensive. After it, the Germans went in only one direction - back to Berlin. Beginning early morning, July 5, the offensive of German armored divisions started. The Panzer generals hoped to catch the Red Army with a huge pincer movement around the Kursk Salient, a bulge 175 miles wide and 150 miles deep into German occupied territory. A week later, the defensive planning of Stalin, Zhukov and Vassilevsky had won the day. In one week Hitlers prized armies had been mauled beyond recognition. His finest Panzer tank armies were destroyed. Neither tanks nor the men proving a match for the Red Army and its' T-34s. By the time the Germans called off their offensive, they had lost over 70k killed, 2900 tanks, 844 cannons and 1400 aircraft. The Red Army proved itself to be superior to an army which had defeated all Europe. Soviet industry and science had proved itself capable of producing weapons to beat the best that Europe could produce for the Nazis. And the Soviet people showed they'd defend their socialist homeland. It's a lesson the likes of Biden, Nuland, Sullivan and Blinken, with their Patriots, soon Abrams and F-16's have chosen to forget or ignore.
Posted by: zeke2u | Jun 9 2023 13:09 utc | 59
@ Ghost of Zanon | Jun 9 2023 11:44 utc | 388
FWIW, your chosen alias — combining “ghost of kiev” with our “wonderful” (MIA?) pest zanon — makes me smile every time I see it.
Posted by: natokraine | Jun 9 2023 13:12 utc | 60
So the Carnival of Death becomes yet more frenzied. To what end?
Assume that by chance, or as a result of the deployment of some as yet undisclosed Wunderwaffe, or even with sheer guts and determination, the Kiev forces break through. Assume even that they conquer and retain the Crimea.
We are to believe that the Russians would then shrug their shoulders and say "Pity. We lost that one." and accept the loss? Of course not. They would merely take the conflict up a notch. This war has been lost since February 2022 and all know it.
The reasons for pushing the Ukrainians on in this hopeless war are unclear.
To "bleed the Russians?". To weaken them if it's not possible to defeat them? That's reason enough for many. One has seen it expressed many times and from early on.
To cement the Europeans into the anti-Russia alliance? Surely that's already done. We're heading for a post-war Cold War II in any case unless unlikely political change in the EU occurs.
To hope the Russians themselves lose heart and give up? For all the talk in the West of splits in Russia, or of the Russian people turning against their government, all know that's nonsense.
Or because neither Washington nor Berlin/Brussels have the faintest idea what to do with this lost war? Sometimes disasters run their course merely because none can see any alternative to letting them.
Or because the European electorates, in particular the paymaster Northern European electorates, have in the main themselves become so committed to this proxy war that the politicians can't now pull out without losing face.
A mix of those reasons, I think, but the last perhaps the most relevant. Hence I attempt to keep an eye on what's happening in the key EU country, Germany.
It's not as it is in England. Here, as far as I can make out, we're either not much interested or are solidly behind what could be the most war-hungry set of politicians in Europe. Left or Right, Green or not, young and old, rich or poor, we're on board. There are, it is true, influential and authoritative voices in the UK pointing out, often forcefully, what's wrong with this or that aspect of current UK Foreign Policy. They go unheard or are dismissed as Putin shills.
Germany? Kujat, Zorn, Vad are also authoritative voices. They get more traction than their equivalents here but I'm not sure how much. The German industrialists? They must be horrified by what's happening but is that expressed politically? The outcasts, the AfD? Running neck and neck in some polls with the SPD; but since no other party can work with them they can have no purchase in a coalition system.
Wagenknecht. Hated by many but a voice. A voice now more explicit that it was:-
🔥Wagenknecht entlarvt Putins Kriegspläne! Die schockierenden Enthüllungen im Video!💥💣
A good brief exposition of the background to this conflict. But she avoids or skirts round the two central issues:-
1. That we are backing neo-Nazis in the Ukraine.
2. Wagenknecht does not go into the cause of the war. That the shelling across the LoC and the massing of Ukrainian troops on the LoC, constituted an immediate and urgent threat which the Russians had no option but to pre-empt by means of military action.
I don't believe the German electorate will stir itself to resolve this conflict until it confronts those two issues. I see little more hope of those issues being confronted in Germany than there is in the UK.
Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 9 2023 13:13 utc | 61
who didnt get a snurkle from Greta getting trotted out for the ecocide . just needs a sign putin caused global warming and its put a fork in it time
Posted by: hankster | Jun 9 2023 13:15 utc | 62
Finally, the footage/pics of destroyed Leopard and Bradley in good quality.
Watch videos without registration and SMS
Posted by: Natvalad | Jun 9 2023 13:17 utc | 63
Boil it all down to...
The west conducts war by media lies.
Russia conducts war by actions speak louder than words.
I know which one I trust the most.
How about you ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 9 2023 13:17 utc | 64
The Ukraine PR Army. Clayton Morris and Dan Cohen explains it:
https://youtu.be/FgZ_B7Om9iE
Posted by: blueswede | Jun 9 2023 13:18 utc | 65
Posted by: zeke2u | Jun 9 2023 13:09 utc | 59
"... it's a lesson the likes of Biden, Nuland, Sullivan and Blinken, with their Patriots, soon Abrams and F-16's have chosen to ... re-learn?".
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 9 2023 13:20 utc | 66
4. No, it doesn't. MoA has a truth bias, not a Russian one, regardless of what you want to believe.
Chinese and Russian claims are often believed as EVIDENCE is provided. Otherwise they are assessed at least my myself in the same manner as other claims without evidence..not assumed to be true. Youre just making shit up.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 9 2023 13:29 utc | 67
@Natvalad | Jun 9 2023 13:17 utc | 63
Video
https://t.me/sashakots/40263
"Sadly smokes, it seems, Bradley, and cheerfully burns, it seems, Leopard." (translated by Telegram)
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2023 13:31 utc | 68
@Exile 7
occupation & partition , I guess that´s what it comes down to at the moment.
question is whether those morons manage to achieve that without setting everything off.
Posted by: AG | Jun 9 2023 13:31 utc | 69
Further to my @58
More forest fire firefighters —
https://twitter.com/MadelnCanada/status/1666881353348939788
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 9 2023 13:35 utc | 70
This is yet another example of how the US intelligence agencies (FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, CFR, DHS...and are there others?) manipulate basic news reporting in the US.
They have been doing this for ~70 years, with only nominal and largely silent pushback by the corporate media.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 9 2023 13:39 utc | 71
Re: Camp Pendleton
The 20 ships your buddy saw from the San Diego Freeway are normally just over the horizon or mostly obscured by haze. One of the landing units is based at Pendleton, no beach out of reach , and they are likely doing a bigger than normal exercise.
The Marine Brass wants to stay relevant in the budget wars. So, they might be showboating for some Congressmen whispering some foolishness about landing at Sevastopol.
Posted by: Exile | Jun 9 2023 13:48 utc | 72
[VIDEO] Walter Cronkite's Final Broadcast, 1981.
... former CBS Evening News anchorman for many years, former CBS Director and former WNET/Channel 13 Trustee, Walter Cronkite, was “a man who had experience with American intelligence;” and that during the 1950s and early 1960s Washington Post male employees “continued to see Paley and Cronkite every Christmas at a dinner given by Allen Dulles” in Washington, D.C.’s Alibi Club. ... membership in the Alibi Club was “limited to men in or close to intelligence and” was “by invitation only.” Not surprisingly, former CIA Director and former U.S. President George H.W. Bush I was also a member of the men-only Alibi Club.
Ref: https://bobafeldman.substack.com/p/cbss-historical-cia-connection-revisited
Often cited as "the most trusted man in America", or so the "Media Says".
Posted by: too scents | Jun 9 2023 13:48 utc | 73
Some people still believe the fairy tale evidence about the twin towers and building 7 on 9/11. MOA is way above their intellectual capability. Nice thing is if and when they start to wake up, there are places like this for them to awaken to the truth.
Posted by: Watzov | Jun 9 2023 13:50 utc | 74
A most amazing bit of briefing the press I’ve ever seen … or was the briefing the other way around?
Zelynskyy had warned all media to parrot the Kyiv narrative about the Kakhovka Dam only !!
State Spokesperson Patel At Risk of Russian War Propaganda …
Department of State Press Briefing - June 6, 2023 | Vedant Patel, Principal Deputy Spokesperson
QUESTION: Same topic.
MR PATEL: Same topic?
QUESTION: A follow-up on this?
MR PATEL: Yeah, go ahead.
QUESTION: Has the Secretary been in touch with his Ukrainian counterpart yet?
MR PATEL: So, the Secretary speaks to Foreign Minister Kuleba quite regularly. We, of course, are also in touch with our Ukrainian partners quite regularly. I don't have a specific call to read out. But we have been in close coordination with our Ukrainian partners through our embassy in Kyiv and Ambassador Brink and others, and we'll continue to do so.
Hudson.
QUESTION: Minister Kuleba said today that by not going out exclusively denouncing Russian action, Western media actors might put on the same foot propaganda and the facts. Don't you --
MR PATEL: Who said that?
QUESTION: Minister Kuleba.
MR PATEL: Oh.
QUESTION: Said that by not calling it out, you might put - you might give some room for propaganda. Are you not --
Did any of the U.S. or NATO leaders really think that the Ukrainian forces would have a f***ing chance by senselessly running into well prepared Russian defenses? Really???
Posted by b on June 9, 2023 at 8:25 UTC | Permalink
An attack where all Ukr soldiers die can be a great success for nato. They have no risk, no losses, except 5-10 unlucky losers sent to Ukr. The reason is because they can, there's nothing to lose, only benefits in long term. Keeping others in endless wars is great for them. If nato blows up all Ukr npps and says Russia did it, what's the danger for them? What's the danger if they repeat the NS attack for another asset? Nothing has happened before, Russia will express concern.
Even in Ukr there's no war, only in Russian parts. Why would Zely and his government ever stop when they can make millions doing nothing, with zero danger for them? Japan seems to want to be a weapons supplier to Ukr (tass.com/world/1630119). Why wouldn't they? Russian energy flows, only benefits
Posted by: rk | Jun 9 2023 13:52 utc | 76
Images with useful labels & arrows to make clear what is what:
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/68165In total, during the "probing attack" failed attack (https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/68159) in the Orekhov in Zaporozhye direction, AFU lost at minimum at least:
— 5 German Leopard 2A6 and 2A4 tanks (2 destroyed, 1 shot down and abandoned, 3 abandoned)
— 6 American M2A2 Bradley ODS-SA infantry fighting vehicles (all shot down and abandoned)
— 3 American MRAP M1224 MaxxPro (all shot down and abandoned)
— 1 Dutch YPR-765 armored personnel carrier (shot down and abandoned)
— 1 Czech T-72M1 (destroyed)
— 1 BRM-2 mine clearance vehicle (broken and abandoned)
— 1 French VAB armored car (hit and abandoned).
— several burnt-out trucks
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2023 14:01 utc | 77
In total, during the failed attack on the Zaporozhye direction, the APU lost at least:
— 5 German Leopard 2A6 and 2A4 tanks (2 destroyed, 1 shot down and abandoned, 3 abandoned)
— 6 American M2A2 Bradley ODS-SA infantry fighting vehicles (all shot down and abandoned)
— 3 American MRAP M1224 MaxxPro (all shot down and abandoned)
— 1 Dutch YPR-765 armored personnel carrier (shot down and abandoned)
— 1 Czech T-72M1 (destroyed)
— 1 BMR-2 mine clearance vehicle (hit and abandoned)
— 1 French VAB armored car (hit and abandoned)
— several burnt-out trucks
For the first time, Leopard 2 tanks and M2A2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles were destroyed.
Posted by: Natvalad | Jun 9 2023 14:02 utc | 78
Q&A Nord Stream Destruction: Russia Started the War | EU |
Helluva job to be spokesperson representing the VDL-Michel-Borrell cabal in Brussels. Openness and transparency … learn more from species of birds in a dense jungle you know. 😊
The problem with Russian propaganda is that it so often turns out to be true. (Someone, can’t remember)
Posted by: Lex | Jun 9 2023 14:04 utc | 80
@26
We are not shitting the bed over something Russia or China might do to us. Putin and Xi seem sane.
Biden is irrelevant, and the people pulling his strings are not so sane. It is not at all clear how vicious they will or will not be in dealing with US citizens. They are treating Ukrainian citizens quite harshly, and it is easy to see this as practice for what they will do to us.
Posted by: Woke American | Jun 9 2023 14:05 utc | 81
More destroyed Wunderwaffen. According to Slavyangrad 4 Bradley's and one Leopard 2A6 - but I guess, it could also be a 2A5? Sorry if already posted, I didn't check all the links.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/49906
Posted by: NoName | Jun 9 2023 14:05 utc | 82
[email protected] is like university for elementary school drop outs.....some still get left behind though.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 9 2023 14:07 utc | 83
Never in the field of human conflict has so much been claimed by so few to so many.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 9 2023 14:11 utc | 84
Dan Rather, an iconic US journalist: "Look I'm an American. I never tried to kid anybody that I'm some internationalist or something. And when my country is at war, I want my country to win, whatever the definition of 'win' might be. Now, I can't and don't argue that that is coverage without prejudice. About that I am prejudiced." So Dan brought us through the criminal war against Vietnam and the Nixon presidency. -- from Norman Solomon's "War Made Easy" -- How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 9 2023 14:15 utc | 85
Posted by: Exile | Jun 9 2023 13:48 utc | 72
Re: Camp Pendleton
No worries. Its priDE MONth Navy was hosting a large Drag Queen show at the camp. Every one in the area was invited. The ships were just running around looking for the best parking space.
Posted by: Golddigger | Jun 9 2023 14:16 utc | 86
When they say it's "ludicrous", it means "I don't have an argument".
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 9 2023 14:16 utc | 87
English [email protected] Germany, home of thee Nazi, backing neo Nazis in the Ukraine....they are supported politically by Nazi politicians in Germany and some feint surprise....I often say, the Grandas just didn't kill enough of them.
Glory to the RF and God's speed in dispatching the evil bastards to Hell! A few select Brits can go with them too, good riddance.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 9 2023 14:18 utc | 88
@ Oui | Jun 9 2023 14:04 utc | 79
The European Council will be destroyed by its own arrogance. Not soon enough.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 9 2023 14:19 utc | 89
THIMC: This 'armchair general' once was an officer in a German tank battalion, well trained in the movement and tactics of combined arms warfare. I can thus judge and call out amateur level deployment of troops when I see it.
Posted by: b | Jun 9 2023 11:36 utc | 31
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I thought was you! I remeber one of my earliest encounters with MOA where you described your experiences in the Nevada desert over a period of four weeks of tank exercises.
First week, major disasters, second week regroup, third week better results in training and results showing by week four.
One quote stood out more than anything else. The OPFOR (thought to be Russian) tankers did not count on air support.
I have always remembered that article for being articulate and insightful. You have not changed. Thank you for making this invaluable contribution by hosting MoA.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 9 2023 14:21 utc | 90
Biden is irrelevant, and the people pulling his strings are not so sane. It is not at all clear how vicious they will or will not be in dealing with US citizens. They are treating Ukrainian citizens quite harshly, and it is easy to see this as practice for what they will do to us.
Posted by: Woke American | Jun 9 2023 14:05 utc | 81
Thank you for your comment. Our "masters" here are far more afraid of us than of anybody in Ukraine. I'm sure they must have some doubts about the wisdom of all this by now.
But except for that, I expect they would treat us the same as they are treating Ukraine, and anybody else that comes their way: like a pack of hyenas. Biden was the head hyena, but I expect he will be replaced now.
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 9 2023 14:23 utc | 91
Russian nuclear weapons will be placed in Belarus in the summer: Putin and Lukashenko discussed security issues
https://www.kp.ru/daily/27514/4776437/
It means they are already there. Anyway, nice photo in that link.
Posted by: ostro | Jun 9 2023 14:23 utc | 92
It’s funny when Nato copers are saying that Ukraine will revise plans and go at it again. While the fact is they already threw a substantial amount of these best equipment and soldiers. While the may still have hundreds of tanks and multiple AFVs they are Zugswange’d in the sense that both doing nothing or attacking with everything at once will lead to inevitable defeat. Former through irresistable attrition of various methods, latter just make it happen faster.
The main hope is use terrodefense fodder and hope RUAF run out of ammunition for some of the newly introduced forces to make a breakthrough, which they are still trying to maintain.
Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2023 14:25 utc | 93
When illusion and delusion meet an anti-tank guided missile, the missile wins every time....
Posted by: JustAMaverick | Jun 9 2023 14:28 utc | 94
The Marine Brass wants to stay relevant in the budget wars. So, they might be showboating for some Congressmen whispering some foolishness about landing at Sevastopol.
Posted by: Exile | Jun 9 2023 13:48 utc | 72
--------------------------------------------------------------
Well placed cynicism. This is the season for jockeying for allocations in the Defense Budget. I saw a USAF slide package some thirty years ago, the US Navy being the main enemy.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 9 2023 14:36 utc | 95
The US and NATO has a Bully's mentality.
"We did this, and Russia didn't do anything about it, so we can do it some more!!
the problem with this mentality, is eventually the one getting bullied, will snap, and unleash an insane amount of violence on the bully.
watch " Christmas Story" for a perfect example of this
eventually NATO will do something that when added to all the other shit NATO has done to Russia, will make Russia respond in a BIG way.
Posted by: Oldcutlas | Jun 9 2023 14:50 utc | 96
thanks b...
welcome 1984 george orwells world... the usa-uk arrived there some time ago...
Posted by: james | Jun 9 2023 14:52 utc | 97
Let's look on the bright side -- the US hasn't yet accepted Zelinsky's flood jabber.
...from the White House, John Kirby, June 6:
We’ve seen the reports that Russia was responsible for the explosion at the dam, which, I would remind, Russian forces took over illegally last year and have been occupying since then.
We’re doing the best we can to assess those reports. And we are working with the Ukrainians to gather more information. But we cannot say conclusively what happened at this point. We will certainly share more information when we can. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 9 2023 14:54 utc | 98
A very sobering (for nato) sumup of the offensive so far
https://twitter.com/navsteva/status/1667156653496573953?s=61&t=HYPzSi-gg2pEmukdiHaZrg
Posted by: Oh | Jun 9 2023 14:56 utc | 99
Bruised Northerner
Thanks for posting the link to South African firefighters arriving in Canada. It may be off topic, but it was an inspirational start to my day!
The comments to this entry are closed.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/09/russia-ukraine-war-live-zelenskiy-hails-results-amid-heavy-fighting-in-donetsk-biden-and-sunak-reaffirm-commitment-to-ukraine
But... But... We intercepted a phone call! Does anyone have the Telegram link to it?
Posted by: Deeplurker | Jun 9 2023 8:35 utc | 1