Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 9, 2023
Kursk 2.0?

Lazy and arguably biased as I am, I will just present the analysis (slightly edited) of the former Swedish officer and defense politician Mikael Valtersson:

ANALYSIS UKRAINIAN COUNTEROFFENSIVE ZAPORIZHIA AFTERNOON JUNE 9

Hard fighting continues along the Zaporizhia front, but with no Ukrainian breakthrough. Sometimes UkrAF makes small gains and then RuAF retakes the lost territories. But all fighting are still being conducted in the grey area in front of the Russian main defence lines.


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I will not go into details about attacks and counterattacks, but the main areas of fighting has been centred around Lobkove to the west, and Robotino to the south, of Orikhiv. Lobkove was captured a short while by Ukrainian forces, but later they retreated due to intense Russian bombardments.


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In Robotino Russian forces retreated to the second line of forward positions closer to the settlement, then Russian forces retook the lost positions and presently Ukrainian forces has taken them a second time and now Russian forces try to retake the first line a second time. But still the Ukrainians has not reached the settlement of Robotino and they are fighting an uphill battle in open terrain through Russian minefields and might have to withdraw a second time to their original positions.


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The Ukrainian forces don't seem to sweep mines in advance of the attack. They do it with a couple of mine clearing vehicles when they attack and behind them the Ukrainian armour advance in a column that is an easy target for Russian AT assets. In a way it resembles the Russian armour columns in the beginning of the war. Columns that took catastrophic losses to Ukrainian AT weapons, a history now repeated by the Ukrainians.

In advance of an offensive, the attacking side must secure air and artillery superiority, so they can shield their mine clearing operations and troop concentrations. And at the same time destroy the defenders command structures and logistical hubs. Finally when they attack their air and artillery superiority can be utilised to severely hurt and slow down enemy reserves to secure breakthroughs. This becomes even more important if the enemy has large reserves and a defence in depth.

On the Zaporizhia front the situation is the opposite, so Ukrainian forces hasn't many choices how to act. One method is to achieve strategic surprise as in the Kharkiv offensive last autumn. That option doesn't exist on the Zaporizhia front. In general I would say that an attack towards an enemy who has all the benefits RuAF has on the Zaporizhia front is suicidal.

The only way Ukrainian (and western) commanders even could have contemplated that such an offensive could succeed was if

  1. western weapons were much superior to Russian weapons,
  2. western trained soldiers much superior to Russian soldiers and
  3. Russian morale was dismal.

If all these factors where true, UkrAF might have had a chance to succeed, but nothing seems to corroborate those assumptions.

Many on the Ukrainian and western side had anticipated hard initial resistance from RuAF, but after 2-3 days fighting and advances of around 6-8 km, they expected an increasing collapse of Russian morale and the real breakthroughs would come. Nothing of this seems to be other than wishful thinking, since fighting still are in the grey zone and Russian resistance are unbroken. At the same time Ukrainian forces take heavy casualties both in soldiers and vehicles.

The offensive isn't over yet and the main Ukrainian attack fist remains with probably over 600 tanks and as many IFVs around Orikhiv. But the future for the Ukrainian offensive looks bleak if their vanguard is destroyed before they reach the Russian main defence lines. The probability is large that Ukraine has to use up their main force to get through a couple of the Russian defencelines and then they will run out of forces to exploit any successes and be forced to withdraw.

To summarise, the most likely outcome of the Ukrainian offensive is minor territorial gains at a horrendous cost.

As I've said before it seems to be Kursk 2.0

I largely agree with the above assessment (even though Kursk 1.0 was much larger and way more balanced).

The biggest tactical mistake I see on the Ukrainian side is the bunching up of vehicles. The distance between combat vehicle on roads and in open fields should be 100 meter, not 10, 5 or 1 meter like in the picture below. The Ukrainian columns regularly get slaughtered by artillery strikes because they always(!) bunch up. Keeping distances is a basic training lecture for any combined arms warfare unit.


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Where are the air defenses? Ukraine has received 37 German Gepard (cheetah) air defense tanks. These are old but can keep the air clean,  each within a 10 kilometer wide bubble. The Gepards were specifically designed to cover tank and mech-infantry battalions in battle. But judging from the number of drone videos the Russian can put out, there is not one Gepard in the whole area.

Also where are the electromagnetic measures. Why can Russian artillery directing drones fly over the combat zone but not Ukrainians?

Why are no fog grenades used by Ukrainian artillery to cover the approaches and breaching attempts by Ukrainian armor?

How are piecemeal commitments, wave after wave but hours apart, going to change anything when what is needed are massive consistent pushes to get through?

Folks, these are basics, not higher level operational or strategic issues. I have drilled these basics into conscripts. If you can't even get those right, after allegedly intense 'western' training, what hope is there to breach through seriously prepared Russian defense lines?

None.

Here is some of the damage done to last night's and today's morning attacks by an allegedly prime Ukrainian unit, the 43rd 'western' trained brigade, that uses prime 'western' equipment.


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Here is video of more.

The first serious probing attacks for the counter offensive started on June 5. I have listed the Ukrainian losses the Russian Ministry of Defense has since reported. Note that these numbers are mostly for the whole front, not just for the Zaporizhia region.


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These numbers are, like in most frontline reports, likely too high. But even if one only takes them at half or a third for real they are still frightening high.


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A whole brigade, more likely a third each of three brigades, has been wasted for zero gains.

Consider that we are five days in and the Ukrainian forces, despite using Leopards and Bradleys, their main forces, have hardly crossed the first contact line. The real Russian first defense lines are still miles away and there are three or more of those.

The History Legends Youtube channel calls this a disaster.

I agree with that too.

Comments

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 9 2023 23:24 utc | 147
I was just reading some Daily Kos, the neolib bible
This website originated from Daily Kos.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Jun 10 2023 4:03 utc | 201

@ Posted by: whirlX | Jun 9 2023 22:49 utc | 139
Just reviewed a montage of Vikhr firings, presumably from KA52.
Based on the time of flight (most around 20 sec), I didn’t see any that would be beyond 6 km, if that. The Vikhr is a relatively slow missile, (I don’t believe the listed 600 m/s max speed) but faster than the US TOW.
Another limitation is that it appears the sighting system must in wide field of view for use. That limits range, as target size becomes very small for the operator to track. Presumably the target is ID’ed using a narrow FOV, then switched to wide for firing.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Jun 10 2023 4:04 utc | 202

@140 hopehely “Nope, the next is a white flag. Long overdue. And that one will work, guaranteed.”
Yeah, Nah.
If they raise the white flag they’ll still insist that they get to impose the terms.
That is the entire rationale behind Jacob Sullivan’s hare-brained “freeze the conflict” i.e. Russia will agree to stop beating up Zelensky, but gets nothing in return.
That won’t work, guaranteed.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 4:09 utc | 203

I wonder if there comes a point where the Russian high command has to go a little bit easy on the Ukrainian forces, lest the Ukkies give up?
After all, a meat grinder can only do its job if someone is willing to keep feeding meat into it.
This one is perfectly capable on mincing the entire Ukrainian Army, so the last thing the Russians want is for Zelensky to cut his losses too early.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 4:13 utc | 204

anyone care to wager on the result. im sure odds change daily especially as wunderwaffles are devoured for breakfast.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10555967/Australian-bar-sparks-outrage-taking-BETS-Russia-succeed-invading-Ukraine.html

Posted by: hankster | Jun 10 2023 4:15 utc | 205

Extremism cancels the human existence rights of others, which is why it is so useful to the neocon bankster neocons.
As such , Islamic, Azov , Green, extremisms arecjust extensions and tools of the original pissed off people cancelled by God, the zionists.
People marvel when chimps use tools.
Homo sapiens use tools.

Posted by: Giyane | Jun 10 2023 4:18 utc | 206

From the recent Politico article: …”sparking heightened calls for an expedited diplomatic resolution and hampering one of the White House’s signature international achievements.”
Signature. International. Achievment.
Those three words tells you just how delusional the world view is from inside the Beltway.
What has Team Biden “achieved” with this little misadventure?
1) It engineered this entire thing so it could inflict Sanctions From Hell on Russia, crush its economy, and then regime-change the Kremlin. None of that happened, and all Biden’s bombast “achieved” was to demonstrate that the USA’s policy of sanctioning recalcitrant countries is not as fearsome a weapon as had been supposed.
2) It decided to arm Ukraine to the teeth for “as long as it takes, only to demonstrate that the USA’s military stockpile isn’t as big as had been assumed, and its military-industrial capacity is nowhere near as impressive as had been assumed.
3) It decided to send wunderwaffen after wunderwaffen, only to demonstrate to everyone that the Best Of The West isn’t actually all that good. We are now seeing one of the last of the delusions – that western tanks are all-but invincible – quite literally going up in smoke.
4) It assumed that the mighty US dollar can solve everything, only to learn that you can’t shoot it out of a gun barrel, it can’t stop a bullet, and its only big advantage in the conflict is that it is very easy to stuff into Zelensky’s pockets.
5) Oh, yeah, speaking of US dollars…. the Saudi’s aren’t as keen on it as they once were. They’ll take it if you insist, but have you got any other currency on you? And, let’s face it, the Saudi’s aren’t the only ones.
In Short: all that Biden has “achieved” is to demonstrate that the USA is quite a paper tiger. The reputational damage alone is catastrophic.
Still, Ol’ Joe gets his cut, which I suppose is nice for him. It buys him a lot of ice cream, and we know he’s fond of ice cream.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 4:28 utc | 207

Below is the latest posting title from Reuters where 90+ percent of their main page is about Trump
Russia has received hundreds of Iranian drones to attack Ukraine, says White House

The White House said on Friday that Russia appeared to be deepening its defense cooperation with Iran and had received hundreds of one-way attack drones that it is using to strike Ukraine.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 10 2023 4:37 utc | 208

Here’s Simpiicius article on the Nazi battle formation of mass stopping together on the battlefield.
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-a-nato-planned-trained

Posted by: Surferket | Jun 10 2023 4:46 utc | 209

More to my story above comes from a ZH posting with the title
Iranian Drone Factory To Be Built Outside Moscow, White House Says
The quote

…, the Biden administration’s Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Friday that Iran is helping Russia build a new manufacturing plant for Iran-designed drones outside of Moscow.
The location was identified as in Alabuga special economic zone, east of the Russian capital, with Kirby qualifying that the plant “probably will be built” and could be operational as soon as next year.
Already, NATO officials have said Iran has provided Russia hundreds of its Kamikaze ‘Shahed’ for use in the war in Ukraine.
…..
Other defense items, including ammunition, is also being shipped from Iran using the same Caspian Sea routes, the statement added.
“This is a full-scale defense partnership that is harmful to Ukraine, to Iran’s neighbors, and to the international community,” Kirby said in the Friday briefing. “We are continuing to use all the tools at our disposal to expose and disrupt these activities including by sharing this with the public — and we are prepared to do more.”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 10 2023 4:48 utc | 210

Anne Applebaums new article headline was really telling of Nato planning strategy:
“The real purpose of the Ukrainian offensive is to show the Russians the war is not worth fighting”.

Theres a whole lot of evil in that women.

Posted by: Exile | Jun 10 2023 4:51 utc | 211

Comandante | Jun 10 2023 3:42 utc | 197
Trump is a distraction from Ukraine.
Yes, but.
It’s likely a Streisand Effect, in that more focus is then on Biden corruption in Ukraine.
Today across twitter I saw accounts re-posting Sleazy Joe boasting he had the Ukrainian prosecutor (pursuing Hunter), fired by threatening to withhold $1b in loans.
sean the leprechaun | Jun 10 2023 3:32 utc | 196
Yes. There’s lots of conjecture about the war “games” about to begin.
Whatever they had planned, was planning a year to 6 months ago. With maybe some revision and refinement 90days ago.
Bahkmut, the busted dam, and the phantom-pains ?counter? offensive of this week…. Whatever they had planned, isn’t going to plan.
Do they do what they usually do…. Which is double, triple, quadruple down? And carry on with The Plan to Punish Putin, or are there any actual military and intelligence voices left who can blow the whistle and get a time-out to, at minimum, regroup and rethink?
I remember my mother reciting to me, The Charge of the Light Brigade, and explaining hundreds men and their poor horses, had charged full frontal into Russian artillery.
Why, I asked, at 5, why would anyone do that? (And why did no one care about the horses?). She explained it happened “hundreds of years ago”, and that was then. [ok, inb4, pedants, 1854]
I did not ever expect that in 2023, men and flimsy iron horses, would once again charge, willingly and ludicrously, full frontal into Russian artillery.
And, that once again, the prize, the Holy Grail, would be Crimea.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 10 2023 5:00 utc | 212

Passerby | Jun 9 2023 22:13 utc | 127

Bayraktar, Javelin, Stinger, Starlink, Switchblade, Storm Shadow, Himars, Patriot, Iris-T, MRAP, Leopard, F16. What’s next, Minutemen?

Oooh, why did you stop ?

Cybermen, Daalleekkkksss !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Jun 10 2023 5:12 utc | 213

I know absolutely nothing about military tactics or equipment. But one thing I can say for sure is this – there seems to be some kind of magic hallucinatory fog in the air because everyone acts as if “Western” weapons and tanks etc are SUPERIOR to Russian/Soviet ones.
And yet there is not a shred of evidence to support this!
Russia is using artillery pieces like D-20s, some of which were built in the 1950s(!), which work just fine while all the vaunted modern “Western” stuff like Javelins, Patriot missiles, HIMARS, Iris-T, IFVs, night vision optics, Leopard tanks, etc. constantly fail, miss their targets, wear out, self-explode, bog down in the mud, or easily get blown to bits.
Hell, at what point are people going to truly acknowledge that the friggin’ Taliban outfought the West??

Posted by: Sam (in Tiraspol) | Jun 10 2023 5:12 utc | 214

@210 Exile Applebaum’s rationale reminds me of the scene in Blazing Saddles where Cleavon Little’s negro sheriff is cornered by the armed and angry townsfolk. He draws his gun, points it at his own head, and growls “Put down your gun, or the n***er gets it!”
This sudden turn of events so perplexes the townsfolk that they comply.
I mean, honestly, what does Applebaum think will happen?
Does she think that the threat that Washington will feed more and more Ukrainians into this meat-grinder will so perplex the Kremlin that they’ll feel obliged to stop cranking the handle?
Her argument might have SOME merit if the Ukrainians adopted a scorched-earth policy as they retreat, but what is actually being “scorched” in this offensive is western military equipment and Ukrainian troops, neither of which Russia actually wants nor needs.
I suspect that the Russians can think of nothing that is more enticing than just disposing of both in the most comprehensive way possible.
It’s sometimes hard to decide about neocons like Applebaum: are they actually evil, or are they simply incurably stupid?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 5:13 utc | 215

melaleuca@211. a day ago (maybe 2) you asked about peter. you may remember he often shared he was undergoing some sort of fast, he never said much, other than it was helping, he had regained strength & that he was sticking to it so he could go camping. possibly, he is now off camping, sans cell, internet, simply one with the vast night sky. i rarely am visit the bar this late, so it’s nice to share a drink with you. this night, o/c, is historical. i paused reading simplicius…realizing i might be able to share the hope your friend peter is well.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Jun 10 2023 5:19 utc | 216

I found an old hat for Prigozhin to eat.
That Russian front line stood strong like a steel wall. Strong enough and long enough to repel even a Wagner assault it seems.
I doubt that he will behave any more as a team player as he seems totally wedded to the great disruptor theory of solidarity 🙂

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2023 5:22 utc | 217

It has been reported in Australian media that the government is planning to send F16 fighter jets to Ukraine as part of a direct NATO involvement. (LINK)
We have been here before with Australia sending fighter jets to Syria where we ended up running protection cover for jihadist forces. Moreover, Western media is still insisting that Russia’s forces are depleted and demoralized. And that they don’t have the weaponry to counter NATO fighter aircraft. Oh yes, they do. Just read any of the posts by Andrei Martyanov. Russian electronic warfare and hypersonic missiles are generations ahead of NATO whose leaders are drunk on their own propaganda Kool Aid. Russia is not going to just fold. No way.
These are dangerous fools, all of them. Idiots endangering us all.

Posted by: Damien | Jun 10 2023 5:23 utc | 218

emersonreturn # 5:19 utc | 215
Thank you for your reminder. It is a fine time to be camping in the great aussie outdoors just now, clear winter night sky, cold and even colder depending on the locality and a night sky so magnificent to sweep the cares away. Keep on truckin Peter.
Simplicious is a gem.
Stay well.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2023 5:27 utc | 219

LightYearsFromHome | Jun 9 2023 22:15 utc | 128
young @ 117
Could it be that the West was putting pressure on Zelensky to launch the current offensive not so much to win but to give the West an excuse to signficantly increase major escalations against Russia.
I don’t know about the nuclear war part, but it is very possible that the Pentagon understood after Kherson, when Russia went to a defensive position to hold the Donbas and protect Crimea that the AFU could not possibly defeat Russia in eastern Ukraine anymore. Realizing that it’s either broker a deal of some sort or a DMZ. Seeing that this war has been in the planning since 1997 if not since 1991, and it’s part of a twofer with China, I doubt a deal is an option for the west.
RESPONSE: You are probablly right that the Penagon understood after Khersoon that the AFU could not possibly defeat Russia in eastern Ukraine anymore.
If your take is correct, and I think it is, then the only reason the West put pressure on Zelensky to launch the current offensive was to see it fail by a certain date so the Western conflict against Russia could be escalated to yet another level by the certain date.
That date could be when NATO’s “Air Defender 23” exercise is occuring between June 12th to June 24th.

Posted by: young | Jun 10 2023 5:34 utc | 220

Activist Potato | Jun 9 2023 22:46 utc | 138

…
To the most cynical, this might be considered a “fringe benefit” of the current strategy…

Tis not cynicism, ! Tis the bleedin’ obvious ! Yer piano tapping dick; said as much – to clear the land for the creation of a second israël !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Jun 10 2023 5:35 utc | 221

Like many others I soon see my non-military assumptions explained as to why they don’t work. Today’s Simplicious article explains why the armour was bunched up and also why my thought on allowing a breakthrough to suck in the Ukrainians is extremely risky.
This it seems was the Biden counteroffensive, one Ukraine wasn’t ready for and had very little hope, short of the Russians breaking, of pulling off. Our fearsome warriors from the rear in NATO it seems have a couple of choices left. One being to let Ukraine fight on ongoing defensive war and hope Russia tires, two of seeking peace or three of joining the fray and hoping they too are not embarrassed by defeat.
Of course most here know NATO nor Biden is actually calling the shots but the deep-state/globalists the media insists doesn’t exist. How they see their requirements is not something we are privy to and common sense isn’t necessarily a factor.
Tend to agree with those that posited that this war has allowed Russia to tune its army for a war against NATO, where NATO has learned somewhat but not through the indelible lessons from blood.

Posted by: Organic | Jun 10 2023 5:39 utc | 222

Im still fully suspect on the NATO air exercises. As pointed out Ukies are missing air cover and its a mess . So for NATO to be able to assemble a large force uncontested near the battlezone is not beyond these guys to then move on in, in numbers of strength . Not a few drips and drabs as other weapons have been. If NATO ukies have any chance they cant be without the air element.

Posted by: hankster | Jun 10 2023 5:41 utc | 223

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-fighter-jets-could-be-sent-to-ukraine-20230605-p5de0h
Australia deliberates sending 41 f18 Hornets as f35 are delivered

Posted by: hankster | Jun 10 2023 5:44 utc | 224

Simplicius article has excellent details and nuances, especially the methods of mine clearance with issues it caused on the advancing column. Preparatory work of artillery, communications (or lack of), not knowing defensive positions (you only find out after your armored column is in fire), etc.
Then moving on to military-economical factors and how Nato neocon delusions play into this. He also states why concentrating attack in this direction is the only obvious choice for AFU, regardless of odds. It is the only real choice which can flip around the entire war calculus.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 10 2023 6:05 utc | 225

@hankster | Jun 10 2023 5:44 utc | 223
Israel has already delivered anti-tank missiles.

Posted by: rk | Jun 10 2023 6:13 utc | 226

Israel has already delivered anti-tank missiles.
Posted by: rk | Jun 10 2023 6:13 utc | 225
You mean this ?
https://www.turdef.com/article/israel-does-not-ban-estonia-from-donating-spike-atgms-to-ukraine
First Ukrainian soldiers need to get near Russian tanks without treading on minefields

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 6:16 utc | 227

Posted by: Exile | Jun 10 2023 4:51 utc | 210
She is from a very rich Jewish family in DC I believe…….

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 6:19 utc | 228

What has Team Biden “achieved” with this little misadventure?
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 4:28 utc | 206
1. EU and NATO countries have ordered American weapons worth hundreds of billions.
2. Germany andEurope gave swapped their dependency on Russian gas over to US LNG. At a cost of tens to hundreds of billions. Per year.
3. EU industry is emigrating to the US, because they can no longer compete on the world market while they have to pay for ridiculousky expensive US LNG for energy supply (Germany is about to start paying 30-50 bn Euro in electricity subsidies to stop the emigration. 30-50 bn they no longer have, thanks to 1. and 2.
4. EU weapons have been exposed as nothing better than toys, while the few American weapons look mostly (except Patriots…) pretty good. Mainly because America is very strategic in what they deliver, when (Leopards and Challengers and French tanks are getter blasted to pieces, not Abrams. Which haven’t arrived yet …).
In short, America has conquered Europe without anybody realising they were a war. That was pretty amazing for the US to pull of. Though to be fair, the credit would go to MAGA-Trump who dreamed up the plan and put it on the rails, rather than sleepy Joe who happened to be president when the rewards came in.
As for Ukraine, they have put up most of their country as collateral for receiving “US AID” on a lend and lease – basis. Meaning Ukraine will be American when the war is over. More precisely, the parts of Ukraine not controlled by Russia … Which might explain America’s reluctance to support ceasefires or a negotiated peace.
Oh ya, and Russia takes a beating. On the grand scale of things, that’s probably just a minor side benefit…

Posted by: Marvin | Jun 10 2023 6:22 utc | 229

hankster | Jun 10 2023 5:44 utc | 223
…>>”Australia deliberates sending 41 f18 Hornets”……
And cast-off Abrams.
Ukraine [(NYC ad team)] made a aussie-targetted market pitch, using pretty much the only 3things anyone in NYC knows about Australia: Shrimps on barbie; Steve Irwin and Mad Max.
Let The Abrams Live Again!
Ukraine Appeals Australia For Their Unused, Older M1A1 Abrams Tanks To Battle Russia
https://eurasiantimes.com/let-the-abrams-live-again-ukraine-appeals-australia-for-their-unused-older-m1a1-abrams-tanks-to-battle-russia
June 1:
We need Australia in the tank coalition of free nations.
Dear Australians, this message is for you:
Each and every tank we receive from Australia will help us break through the enemy’s defenses – and as a result, regain our land and save the lives of our people.

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1664060450772865026

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 10 2023 6:33 utc | 230

As a neutral observer, I think Ukraine was hoodwinked into this war, just as Putin was cornered into this SMO.
If I was an Eastern European nation, other than the two above mentioned, I would be wise to this NATOganda now, and say ‘no more’.
My second comment: I’m not a military person, but I do understand industry and logistics and I do GET Col. Douglas McGregor’s comment that the West has no Surge Capacity so any protracted war launched by NATO is impossible. Unless NATO won in 1 week they would run out of ammo. So I reflected on what alternate surge capacity could the West turn to? The only industry sector I can think of is drones. The West as a multiplicity of drone manufacturers for commercial and consumer use. Could they be re-tooled? Could huge drone swarms make a difference to the conflict?

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 10 2023 6:34 utc | 231

Posted by: Marvin | Jun 10 2023 6:22 utc | 228
You might also say US has “consumed” Europe and gained all those benefits. This was to be expected in a development where US is losing influence and financial control everywhere else.
However, the trade off is of course that EU is very weak financially and otherwise, meaning they will simply become poorer and unable to keep supporting US too long. They will plunder everything but it’s a case of cannibalizing your subjects. As a collective, the west isn’t getting stronger while the global south collectively gains autonomy from it.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 10 2023 6:35 utc | 232

‘Crack’ natzo trained equipped and commanded ukrops?
Crack cocaine more like. And probably masses of Hashis and other mind numbing, fear removing Pharma.
Losing a tenth is being DECIMATED-old style Roman legion punishment- poor wretches they get sacrificed to show how hard they are – dumb Fight Club incels.
This PR war just got real for all who have bought into the fake narratives of 23 wasted years of this century at least – what a complete complete Collective Waste , they are and have made.
No – Russians don’t need to roll out across the steppes – there is no reason. Europe has NOTHING the Russians need. No invaders to chase back to their lairs. Like the last lot in their Bunker.
This lot of of natzo losers already released a video of she-lenski and his chickenshits in some ugly bunker. It is as stupid as the rest of this Public Relation woofta hurray Henry posh tosser led and managed ‘war’. The strange edit and close ups of all looking intently at each other but not one shot of anyone speaking!
No talk – no trousers! Just products of the advertising industry.
These plonkers! Like chemical and biological warfare supremo spook of the U.K. military- Hamish De Bretton-Gordon being a prime example of the weak chinned aristo military industrialists – that guy and his cohort are the wasted generation of two , spent all their lives being led to believe that they would be the ones to finally deliver Russia and Central Asia to their masters! They have spent this whole century so far in their slow-mo world war – starting with the fake War on Terror, the sly dream of 7 countries in 5 years, Arab spring bullshit; Russophobic ‘Novichok’ fakery -whilst delivering actual wmd to head chopper White Helmet’s in Syria. The author of which that other U.K. military spook fell from a roof in Turkey , Le Mesurier, when it all went pear shaped there. The famous British Tank Regiment- front for many a miltary aristo sons to play at being soldiers in – Will themselves never go to any front lines they are busy creating.
They have destroyed themselves and wrecked our peace and prosperity for that wet dream of the ages. They are self revealed C***s, and deserve to be totally f****d, their PR bum chums , Lilly livered,wordsmiths and compliant friends and family in the media and politics – are finally seen for the shit for brains they have always been.
These chicken shit for brains are coming home to roost – only they’ll get away with their murder and incompetence because the whole establishment is full of their aforementioned kith and kin.
Fuck them all!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 10 2023 6:37 utc | 233

‘I know I’ve helped kill Russians’: the Aussies on the front lines in Ukraine
From Brisbane and Melbourne to the muddy fields of eastern Ukraine, Crikey speaks to two Aussies who have taken up arms against Russia.
Anton Nilsson Jun 06, 2023
https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/06/australian-fighters-ukraine-russia/

#- The invasion inspired action from all over the world, including harsh sanctions on Russia and military assistance for Ukraine.
Australia, which says it’s the largest non-NATO contributor to Ukraine’s defence, has spent at least $510 million on assistance, including sending Bushmaster protected mobility vehicles and drones.
Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov said at the weekend that Australia was preparing to give fresh aid in July, although Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has so far refused to confirm that. The Sydney Morning Herald reported on Tuesday morning the support package is likely to include a set of armoured cars known as Hawkei, which has been high on Ukraine’s wish list* for months. [*…what *isn’t*on Ukraine’s begging-bowl list.]
#- “Robert has been in the war long enough to see the seasons change. 
“Winter was not fun, I’ll tell you that,” he says.
“Now everything is drying out, and it’s easier to dig and make positions.
But summer has downsides too — there are lots of fires, and it gets sweaty wearing all the gear. It can be quite a miserable experience. Also fighting traditionally increases in the summer.” 
Foreign volunteers have been told they can leave the defence force when they want. So when is the right time to quit? When will the debt be considered repaid? 
“I don’t know when the debt will be realised, but I know I’ve emotionally fulfilled an obligation,” says Robert. “In some ways I already feel like I’ve done my part — I’m pretty burnt out.
“I know I’ve contributed; I know through my efforts I’ve helped kill Russians trying to destroy the country.
There’s nothing keeping me here other than my own loyalties stupidity”.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 10 2023 6:52 utc | 234

Someone has been feeding themselves exclusively on western media reports.

British-made tanks are about to sweep Putin’s conscripts aside
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon
Fri, June 9, 2023 at 2:15 PM GMT+2
As a former tank commander, I can say one thing for certain: Putin’s demoralised conscripts are utterly unprepared for the shock action now hitting their lines. Ukrainian armoured formations are beginning to meet Russian forces in battle, and they are going to pulverise Russia’s defensive lines. I am confident for one simple reason: Ukraine will follow the Western ideology of manoeuvre warfare in a combined arms context, while the Russians will follow Soviet doctrine, relying on attrition and numbers. The Russians will find that the armour of Western tanks is far more resilient than flesh and bone, they will die in great numbers, and they will lose.
(…)
The Challenger and Leopard tanks leading the spearhead vastly outmatch what’s left of Russia’s heavy armour, while sophisticated precision artillery is providing withering fire for the advance.
Conversely, Russian recruits appear to be given a few days of training, a little ammunition and are then thrown into the meat-grinder with a life expectancy surely measured in days.
(…)
With Ukrainian canniness, Western intelligence and equipment and a smattering of good fortune, I expect what’s left of the Russian army to be nothing more than a speed bump on the way to liberating Crimea, pushing to the Russian border and chucking Putin’s war criminals out of Ukraine once and for all.
Much like Adolf Hitler at the end of his war, Putin appears to be holed up in his bunker, being fed lies, making the wrong decisions while the sharks circle. What’s unfolding in Ukraine now could go down in history as one of the great tank actions, alongside Cambrai, Kursk and the Arras counterattack. It will certainly go down as the end of Moscow’s illegal invasion – and perhaps the beginning of the end of Putin

https://news.yahoo.com/british-made-tanks-sweep-putin-121523037.html

Posted by: Brendan | Jun 10 2023 7:03 utc | 235

@ Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 6:16 utc | 226
Yes, that Spike thingy.

Posted by: rk | Jun 10 2023 7:06 utc | 236

Rheinmetall CEO just acknowledged the Leopard 2 panzers were destroyed without firing a shot. He also said that Ukraine can only receive correct type of ammunition if EUronato countries release their ammunition stockpiles to Ukraine.
Regardless what the EU commission thinks or says, EU does not capability or capacity for a “war economy”. Things are already going towards full blown economic catastrophe anyway. It’s the same thing they said a few years ago about investing 50 billion euros for “domestic chip manufacturing”, which in practice meant they gave money to Intel in the hopes of them building a factory in EUrope. And now everything is being plundered by Amerika, anyway.
Does anyone think Amerika has much incentive in developing any weapon systems when they are guaranteed revenue stream from vassal Euro states anyway? They threw Rheinmetall and other German companies under the bus to make way for US companies, it’s the worst of both worlds. But hey, that’s how we roll.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 10 2023 7:11 utc | 237

@ rk | Jun 10 2023 7:06 utc | 235
Tech that everybody has.
School project rocket guidance ==> https://youtu.be/4xEx2EQIPD4
Training and troops is what wins.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 10 2023 7:16 utc | 238

What the western leaders (fools) don’t understand is that there are no Putin’s forces, but Russian forces, and that all those attacking from the western side of the Russian Federation are Nazis and just like 80 years ago, Nazis has to be stopped and destroyed. So, the determination of the RF forces are very high, some times even higher than one values one’s life.
There’s nowhere to retreat, for the the Rodina (Motherland) is behind me!
Well, the western leaders (fools) would never fathom that!

Posted by: ostro | Jun 10 2023 7:24 utc | 239

Posted by: hankster | Jun 10 2023 5:41 utc | 222
” So for NATO to be able to assemble a large force uncontested near the battlezone”
It’s not near the battlezone – I’ve covered this here before. Most are in Germany, a few “forward elements” are up around the Baltic states.
“then move on in, in numbers of strength”
Max is 200 – that is not “numbers in strength” – especially not when confronted by Russian Air Defense and Russia aviation which can shoot down any Western plane before that plane can shoot it down.
Then there’s the question of sustainment – where do they go to refuel (assuming they survive the first sortie)? Look up the range and fuel consumption of any Western fighter especially in a dogfight with an opponent.
I’ll repeat the bottom line: The upcoming NATO exercises have absolutely nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. There is only one – a US Navy and Ukrainian Navy exercise near the Black Sea – which might be involved in some further Ukrainian PR nonsense against the Russian Black Sea Fleet – but that’s it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2023 7:24 utc | 240

Aussie hand-me-down Abrams to Ukraine?
Not-so-fast, …. U$A already one step ahead…

It’s already been announced that the M1A1 Abrams Tanks most of which aren’t currently operational were being returned to the United States after decommissioning and Australian computer equipement and software was being removed starting October this year

https://twitter.com/DatFishGuy/status/1664168627602591745
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/defence/land/army-s-tank-acquisition-on-track
Army’s tank acquisition on track
By Julian Kerr | Sydney | 2 May 2023
2 / 3 free articles left.
Army is still going to receive new main battle tanks (MBTs) potentially costing billions of dollars notwithstanding the number of Infantry Fighting Vehicles (IFVs) it had anticipated receiving being slashed from 450 to 129 in the Defence Strategic Review (DSR). 
This was confirmed on 28 April by Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy, standing beside Defence Minister Richard Marles at Sydney’s Garden Island Navy Base, where both were briefing journalists on the reshaping of defence innovation. 
ADM: “What’s happening regarding the Abrams main battle tanks ordered by the previous government in January 2022?”
Conroy: “The acquisition of that project is continuing. That is part of the Army’s force structure into the future. The DSR made no recommendations around the tanks other than – that part of the force structure of the Army is set.
ADM: “They will be acquired?”
Conroy: “They will be acquired.”
The sale was originally approved by the US State Department in April 2021.
No further comment was available on schedule, order composition, or the Abrams’ intended role following the restructuring of Army foreshadowed in the DSR.
The $3.5 billion procurement of new MBTs … was confirmed in January 2022…
-75 M1A1 SEPv3 Abrams tanks (replacing its current fleet of 59 earlier M1A1 AIM models);
-29 M1150 Assault Breacher vehicles and
-17 M1074 Joint Assault Bridge vehicles (which will provide new capabilities for the ADF); and
-six M88A2 Hercules Armoured Recovery vehicles joining the 13 already in service. 
… the vehicles were expected to arrive in Australia from 2024 and achieve initial operational capability by 2025.
The 73.6-ton M1A2 SEPv3 (Systems Enhancement Package version 3) Abrams entered service with the US Army in 2020.
Improvements over the M1A1 AIM include enhanced mission systems and programmable rounds for the 120mm main gun, additional ballistic protection, a low-profile remotely-controlled weapons station, a new auxiliary power unit, a new vehicle health management system, and an improved forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor.
Whether the Australian Abrams will be fitted with the Trophy active protection system is not known. ……>>

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 10 2023 7:24 utc | 241

Posted by: young | Jun 10 2023 5:34 utc | 219
“That date could be when NATO’s “Air Defender 23″ exercise is occuring between June 12th to June 24th.”
Again…no. See my last post above at 239.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2023 7:27 utc | 242

“The shameful clown is out”: British covers are competing to see who will spit more spectacularly at Boris Johnson, who announced the resignation of the parliamentary mandate and leaving politics against the backdrop of an ongoing investigation into his activities as prime minister.
The same Johnson who called himself the main friend of Ukraine and Zelensky, who prevented the conflict from being stopped at the very beginning, who promised to defeat Putin and destroy Russia.
————
Well, who is next?
Biden to the grave shortly, but before that time comes…?

Posted by: ostro | Jun 10 2023 7:32 utc | 243

For those prepared to tolerate a slightly different point of view here’s a decent hypothesis about military capability:
https://acoup.blog/2023/06/09/fireside-friday-june-9-2023/

Posted by: The Accountant | Jun 10 2023 7:39 utc | 244

News:
Yesterday, on June 9, British Eurofighter Typhoon fighters flew twice to intercept Russian aircraft (An-12BK, Il-20 and Su-27) over the Baltic Sea.
Reply:
Britain is not located on the Baltic Sea, so their provocations will sooner or later end with the destruction of their aircraft by Russian air defense or the Russian Aerospace Forces over our Baltic.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 10 2023 7:45 utc | 245

@234 Brendan
Yeah, I’ve read that delusional article.
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is a clown and has always been. I remember his relentless propaganda about chemical weapon attacks in Syria.
I have a hard time convincing myself that he actually believes all the BS he writes about. I’m more inclined to think that he is just a cog in the UK propaganda machine and that propaganda is targeted mainly at the UK population.
Look at the mix of arrogance, wishful thinking and unwarranted sense of superiority that makes up the foundation of his own conclusions. Basically: the Ukraine will prevail because the West is the best and the Russians are unworthy adversaries.
That man is talking to a delusional audience that believes that the UK is still the powerhouse that it used to be in the XVIII to XIX century.

Posted by: Leonardo | Jun 10 2023 7:50 utc | 246

⚡️ The first captured Leopard tank(s) were taken by the Russian military to the rear.
This is reported by war correspondent Alexander Kots.

Posted by: Leopards captured | Jun 10 2023 7:50 utc | 247

Leonardo | #245
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon spouted a lot of nonsense about the Skripal case too. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone in the MSM question anything he says, so maybe that convinces him that he’s the expert he says he is.

Posted by: Brendan | Jun 10 2023 7:58 utc | 248

@ Leopards captured | Jun 10 2023 7:50 utc | 246
—
Captured gun camera data has been released to the ‘net.
https://twitter.com/_Surovikin_/status/1667393318936879106

Posted by: too scents | Jun 10 2023 8:01 utc | 249

Posted by: The Accountant | Jun 10 2023 7:39 utc | 243
Not interested in his overall concept, but calling Gerasimov a “blockhead”…well… The guy is a moron.
He offers up statements about how “poorly” the Russian army has performed – without the slightest notion of evidence of any kind. Like most of his ilk, he can’t point to a single piece of evidence on any problems whatsoever with the Russia military.
It’s bullshit.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2023 8:06 utc | 250

! needs competent translation !
Kotsnews
Первые «Леопарды» затрофеены. Журналисты – на низком старте. Конструкторы тоже. И военные ждут не дождутся, когда можно будет пощупать руками распиаренный танк. Но, наверное, больше всего хотят поближе познакомиться с ним миллионы простых россиян, которые много месяцев с тревогой вчитывались в новостные сводки.
Запад принял решение о поставке «Леопардов» Украине.
«Леопарды» сфотографированы на железнодорожных платформах.
«Леопарды» замечены в лесопосадке.
И, наконец, долгожданное: мы сожгли первые «Леопарды»!
Понятно, что рано или поздно один из брошенных экипажем танков наши вытащат с передка. А, может быть, и не один. Понятно,что прежде всего он попадет в руки специалистов, которые разберут его до винтика. И производить они будут эти манипуляции в глубокой и секретной тишине. Но уже сейчас надо думать, как нанести по «Леопардам» открытый информационный удар. И это тот случай, когда телеканалам, газетам, ведущим военным блогерам не надо гнаться за эксклюзивом. А наоборот – объединиться под началом МО и максимально подробно познакомить страну с громоздким трофеем.Чем страшен этот черт? И настолько ли, как его малюют?
Уже сейчас надо составить пул пишущих и снимающих для «охоты на Леопарда». Наметить конструкторов, которые расскажут о его сильных сторонах и продемонстрируют уязвимые зоны.
Определить полигон, на котором спецы Уралвагонзавода погоняют «Леопард» по полосе препятствий, через водные преграды, на разных режимах работы двигателя. И устроят километровую гонку Т-90М и «Леопарда», а потом ответят на вопросы журналистов.
А на полигоне Минобороны подготовить технику, чтобы последовательно обстрелять под объективами фото- и кинокамер трофейный танк всем противотанковым, что у нас есть – от РПГ и ПТУР до 125-мм снарядов. И дать слово артиллеристам с передка.
Затрофеенные немецкие танки – наш козырь в информационной войне. Новость о разгроме украинской бронегруппы наделала немало шороху в западных СМИ и блогосфере. И даже у русофоба Джулиана Рёпке из Bild натурально истерика. Так давайте выдоим этих «Леопардов» досуха. Раскроем все их секреты. Возможно тогда на Западе лишний раз подумают, прежде чем дарить нам свои военные технологии.
Скажете, шапкозакидательством занимаюсь? Ни в коем случае. В последние дни наметились хорошие тенденции в информационном сопровождении СВО: много актуального видео, комментариев военачальников по событиям дня, живых портретов солдат и офицеров. Надо развивать это наступление, тем более на фоне ступора украинских пабликов. Он временный, не сомневайтесь. Придут в себя и снова будут каждую крохотную перемогу раздувать на 200 процентов.
Мне не кажется чем-то невозможным оперативно отпечататать несколько тысяч плакатов с инфографикой западной техники – сильные и слабые места, И самые уязвимые точки для наших снарядов и ракет. Чтобы эти плакаты висели в каждом блиндаже на фронте и на каждом учебном полигоне в тылу. И расшарить их в интернете. И вообще хотелось бы увидеть «Леопард» в московском Парке имени Горького, на том же месте, где во время Великой Отечественной выставляли поверженную германскую технику. Предварительно прокатив «Леопард» по Садовому кольцу с фотосессией у посольства США.
Но это я уже окончательно размечтался…

Posted by: Leopards captured | Jun 10 2023 8:11 utc | 251

This is from the Simplicius article.
Clear that the Russians have Leopard2 and Bradley trophies.
https://i.imgur.com/rqb4caD.jpg

Posted by: Surferket | Jun 10 2023 8:13 utc | 252

@243 The Accountant
I honestly can’t push myself to take the article premise seriously. The idea that the Russian Army is performing way worse than expected is the conviction of all those observers that mistook self-restraint and lack of will for lack of capability.
Even people like Valtersson, that is an otherwise pretty rational analyst, ended up falling for that delusion.
It’s pretty clear nowadays that in the beginning the SMO was conceived with the idea of scaring/pressuring the Ukraine into entering those negotiations that Russia wasn’t able to compel through diplomacy alone.
The operation was devised and scaled based on that objective and involved a very limited number of soldiers (200-250 thousands total, according to most estimates, including the DPR and LPR militias and the various PMCs) and tactics that were meant to limit casualties to the minimum even among enemy combatants (for instance, at first the Russians were avoiding strikes on UAF barracks).
In the beginning the Russians were proven right: negotiations were started and – according to Patrushev himself – they reached a pretty advanced stage.
But then it backfired, because the irrationality, maximalism and delusional thinking of the Western political and military elites that were supporting Ukraine became convinced that Russia was actually weak and that the current war would have been the perfect opportunity to hit it hard once and for all in the economic and military sphere.
So, first one of the Ukrainian negotiators was killed by the SBU itself, that accused him of treason, and then the negotiations were stopped and it was decided that the war had to be won on the battlefield. All this took place in the first month and a half of the SMO.
So Russia had to adapt to the new reality and transform its operation into something that at the start it wasn’t meant to be, but still without going all out on the violence meter.
A partial mobilization was ordered and the Military organization restructured in a way that would support a more conventional war. And now we are watching the result of that transformation, with columns of western tanks being destroyed by a mix of modern artillery guided munitions, ATGM and standoff munitions from aviation that seems to be working with impunity in an environment where the UAF AA defense have been seriously degraded.

Posted by: Leonardo | Jun 10 2023 8:16 utc | 253

“But then it backfired, because the irrationality, maximalism and delusional thinking of the Western political and military elites that were supporting Ukraine became convinced that Russia was actually weak and that the current war would have been the perfect opportunity to hit it hard once and for all in the economic and military sphere.”
should have been
“But then it backfired, because OF the irrationality, maximalism and delusional thinking of the Western political and military elites that were supporting Ukraine, THAT became convinced that Russia was actually weak and that the current war would have been the perfect opportunity to hit HER hard once and for all in the economic and military sphere.”

Posted by: Leonardo | Jun 10 2023 8:20 utc | 254

First time I’ve ever disagree with b. But his take on the tank ‘bunching up’ is all wrong. Simplicius explains it all in his recent post.
A simple take-home I’ve got from it is that tanks habitually shelter behind other tanks and that makes much sense and we’ve got that here. That’s one.
And another is that they have to press on when the tank in front gets hit, can’t give up, but going off the road put them into mines they didn’t expect to be laid so thickly. That’s two.
And it goes on like that.
I’m coming to the party late. Haven’t read all the comments. Prob’ly someone already said all that. Sorry. You get that.

Posted by: abrogard | Jun 10 2023 8:26 utc | 255

Seeing that this war has been in the planning since 1997 if not since 1991, and it’s part of a twofer with China, I doubt a deal is an option for the west.
Posted by: young | Jun 10 2023 5:34 utc | 219
I agree the Washington wants to take out Russia and China, and that this policy is carried forward, across US presidencies, no matter who wins the US elections and gets to sit in the White House. As US Lieutenant General James Bierman stated, the US had been “preparing the theatre” in Ukraine since 2014. Others talk about the failed “Orange Revolution” of december 2004 – january 2005 as the starting point of the current crisis.
But when you say “since 1997”, that takes me by surprise. I assume you have some data to back that up?

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 8:34 utc | 257

@ abrogard | Jun 10 2023 8:26 utc | 254
—
After the UAF’s push becomes combat ineffective Russia will mount its counteroffensive though the Ukrainian prepared defensive lines and show how it is done.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 10 2023 8:34 utc | 258

It’s difficult to tell these days. The supply in the USA seems inexhaustible.
But for today I’ll nominate this b**tard as the world’s most evil man:
“This is a full-scale defense partnership that is harmful to Ukraine, to Iran’s neighbors, and to the international community,” Kirby said in the Friday briefing. “We are continuing to use all the tools at our disposal to expose and disrupt these activities including by sharing this with the public — and we are prepared to do more.”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 10 2023 4:48 utc | 209

Posted by: abrogard | Jun 10 2023 8:38 utc | 259

@228 Marvin
1) What was I saying about US Dollars? The US MIC will get all those $billions. The EU/NATO countries won’t get the American weapons they ordered. Obviously so, since the US military will be in the front of that queue, and the US MIC won’t even be able to supply that customer, let alone the hangers-on.
2) See (1) above. The USA will take the money, but they won’t deliver the LNG.
3) Riiiiight. And how many of them will make that move, versus going broke attempting to make that move?
4) Hahahahah!!! When was the last time the HIMARS was mentioned? Or the M777? Or the Javelin? Or the Stinger? All American-made, all delivered with such fanfare, and all found wanting. It isn’t JUST European weapons that have been shown wanting – it is WESTERN weapons.
“In short, America has conquered Europe without anybody realising they were a war.”
No, they have IMPOVERISHED Europe, not “conquered” it. There is a massive difference between the two.
And, yes, people will start to notice, and also notice that the current crop of European “leaders” are blaming Russia when the true blame lies with their own boneheaded leaders making decisions at the insistence of Washington.
It won’t be many years at all before Washington looks across the Ocean at their “conquest” and realize that it all looks like Hungary and the leaders all talk like Viktor Orban.
I mean…. honestly… are the Washington rah-rahs really this tunnel-visioned that they believe that they can keep this charade going for more than a few years?
Dude, these are policies that are going to ensure that Washington LOSES Europe, not CONQUER Europe.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 8:40 utc | 260

Translating a largish piece of text like that takes some amount of dedication.
needs competent translation !
Kotsnews
Kotsnews would be something akin “Kitten News”

Posted by: Catilina | Jun 10 2023 8:41 utc | 261

@ bBearN | Jun 9 2023 21:02 utc | 108
Nobody here has mentioned, amidst all the celebrating, that the massive Air Defender ’23 exercise starts Monday.
Wrong.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 9 2023 21:16 utc | 113

He is not making an honest mistake, he sates a deleberate lie.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Jun 10 2023 8:44 utc | 262

Mainly just losing equipment and people. Is that the goal? Like to satisfy management they have to prove they can’t win?
Posted by: Jmaas | Jun 9 2023 18:37 utc | 36
That’s the way I see it. As for the dam On another thread I repeated Mercouris astute observation that the damage had no clear military purpose for either side and “cui bono” suggests that it was intended to drive up world grain prices for the benefit of US agribusiness

Posted by: Tim | Jun 10 2023 8:51 utc | 263

@248 too scents
!!!!! Did I see that right? One Bradley was providing suppressing fire and the rest of the AFVs rushed past IN FRONT OF THE GUN rather than behind it?
And then when one got clobbered that Bradley just kept firing into that AFV that was no more than two-three meters away?
Did the gunner think that if he kept his thumb on the Firing Tit that eventually he’ll drill a hole clean through his compatriots and then the shells will make it to the Russian lines again? Or was he too busy looking at Twitter on his phone to notice that he was pouring fire into his own compatriots?
I… what? Clown Car doesn’t do justice to it.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 8:56 utc | 264

Hamish and the other Daily Telegraph Ukraine ‘experts’ are insulting to the intelligence of their readership.
It’s the main reason that I sought news sources elsewhere, like this website, and those of Col McGregor and Scott Ritter.
Why? Because these alternative explanations fit the broader events and behaviours in plain sight,, while the tripe offered by MSM correspondents is so incoherent and inconsistent, and sometimes just plain foolish.
For example, Putin will invade Western Europe, but Putin is also dead, terminally ill and mad. The Russian army is our greatest threat, but it is also incompetent, corrupt, cowardly, disorganised, poorly armed – with spades – running out of ammo, running out of missiles (presumably every domestic washing machine in Russia has been gutted for missile parts) etc. etc.
By treating their readers as fools, they are driving them, like me, to find out better versions of the truth. We don’t know the whole story, but we know a lot more in this website and a few others than most in the West.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 10 2023 8:57 utc | 265

I wonder what the chances are that the Russians will be able to take one of the knocked out Leopard 2 tanks. Take it to Moscow, to study and display. That’d be a big blow to the German weapon’s industry.

Posted by: Rune Denmark | Jun 10 2023 8:59 utc | 266

“I wonder what the chances are that the Russians will be able to take one of the knocked out Leopard 2 tanks. Take it to Moscow, to study and display. That’d be a big blow to the German weapon’s industry.
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Jun 10 2023 8:59 utc | 265”
They will surely do that. Parked in front of the German Embassy.

Posted by: Catilina | Jun 10 2023 9:02 utc | 267

jared @ 100
Which begs the question: What are they actually doing?
Pitting Ukraine against Russia to make sure both never ever unite, or even cooperate on any issue… To kill as many Ukrainians as possible in the fight against the Russians and as many Russians in the fight against the Ukrainians is the solution.
There is a film from the 1970s called “The Run”. It tells the story of the Russian Imperial Army fighting the Red Army in Crimea during the Russian Civil War. The commander in chief of the Imperial Army orders his field commanders to fight the advancing Reds to their own last soldier…in the belief that if any of their soldiers survive, they will switch over to the Reds’ side. And, historically, that’s exactly what was happening — with reference to General Wrangel’s memoirs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UGcyweYo2w
Posted by: Nomad | Jun 9 2023 21:15 utc | 112
Looks great. I’ve downloaded it. But it say ‘1 episode’. Is it the full film and if not where do we get further episodes?

Posted by: abrogard | Jun 10 2023 9:32 utc | 268

In the summer or early autumn of 1941, a crash-landed German Ju88 bomber was transported to Moscow and put on display in the city centre as a morale booster. In later years, the same was done to German tanks, though they tended to be evaluated first.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 10 2023 9:33 utc | 269

If the AFU is pausing its assaults then I imagine the Russian military is taking the opportunity to surveil what targets can best be attacked by drones, missiles, and air bombardments. All repositioning by the AFU will be monitored and of course seen as an opportunity to strike targets that have revealed their location, and are out in the open. I’d expect Russia to shuffle its reserves to be better located should the AFU actually transport their assault troops to new locations.
This isn’t a battle between cavalry forces and it’s a real inopportune moment for Ukraine to have to rethink where and how it wants to attack. I’m guessing that Russia is replacing whatever mines were expended in the recent wave of attacks, and their front lines are all the better for having been put through a live fire exercise, albeit it was one with casualties.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jun 10 2023 9:37 utc | 270

This “Declaration of Protection of the Ukrainian People” is modeled on the US “Declaration of Independence”, which in my opinion is already a hint as to who wrote this document.
We, the multinational people of Ukraine, believe that all people are equal and have rights that no one has the right to alienate. These rights include the right to life, liberty, personal integrity, happiness, and others. States and governments are created by people to ensure these rights. If any form of government becomes disastrous for the goal itself, the people have the right to change it, or completely abolish it and establish new forms of government.
…
We recognize loans granted by foreign states and international financial organizations after February 21, 2014 as personal obligations of representatives of the occupation regime, for which the Ukrainian people bear no responsibility.
NATO countries that are interested in restoring good relations with the Ukrainian people should cover the costs incurred by Ukrainians as a result of the coup d’etat organized by them and the activities of the occupation regimes they support. The amount and form of compensation, as well as the term of its payment, is determined by the Representation of the Ukrainian people.
All licenses and permits for the development of minerals, use of mineral resources and natural resources of Ukraine issued to multinational corporations of foreign origin, as well as enterprises whose ultimate beneficiaries cooperated with the occupation regime, are considered null and void. Holders of revoked permits and licenses are required to compensate the people of Ukraine for losses and losses caused by the exploitation of natural resources within 5 years.
Agricultural land illegally sold by the occupation regime to foreign companies and citizens, as well as citizens of Ukraine (and enterprises formed by them) who cooperated with the occupation regime, is returned to the property of the Ukrainian people. The former owners have been obligated to compensate the people for losses and losses caused by the exploitation of land for five years.
nrvch

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 9:56 utc | 271

I’m surprised nobody brought up Pickett’s Charge (US Civil War, for you non-American readers here) as the parallel here. “Let’s amass everyone and everything we have on this front and just charge straight at the enemy and plow though them. The Yankees can’t possibly have that many lines of defense can they?……..can they?”

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Jun 10 2023 9:58 utc | 272

Posted by: Damien | Jun 10 2023 5:23 utc | 217
Thanks for the WSWS link, they are half right, Australia does not have F16’s.
Here is the original from the AFR:
“….During the week, Phillip Coorey and Andrew Tillett revealed that Australia, the US and Ukraine are discussing sending 41 retired Royal Australian Air Force F/A-18 Hornets to Kyiv to help meet Volodymyr Zelensky’s request for fighter jets…”.
Otherwise, the Hornets now sitting in a hangar at an RAAF base outside Newcastle could be scrapped…”
You are right, Australia is governed by idiots. Ukraine will lose its most experienced pilots if unnecessarythis madness continues.
BTW, I am sick of [man made] unnecessary events, they are becoming more frequent in my life.

Posted by: Paul GV .. | Jun 10 2023 9:58 utc | 273

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2023 8:06 utc | 249
You might be a tad surprised when you read the Russian Army’s post-operation analysis of the SMO in 2024-5. These documents have tended to be brutally truthful and useful ‘lessons learned’ exercises.
As for the Bradley footage, the crew obviously think there is a threat from the stand of trees 400+m away. Their turret is constantly traversing in a narrow arc, using suppressive fire and then, the moment the explosion happens, a direct fire engagement. My guess would be someone in a forward OP, popped their head up after hearing the explosion. The firing of the smoke dischargers also suggests a near-by threat.

Posted by: Milites | Jun 10 2023 10:00 utc | 274

The train with ammunition for Ukraine was robbed in Poland — Wyborzca
4 crates of 155 mm high-explosive fragmentation shells were stolen from a railway station in Lower Silesia. The train was guarded by NATO soldiers, but the thieves bypassed the guards.
https://twitter.com/DagnyTaggart963/status/1667469427971899392

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 10 2023 10:03 utc | 275

It’s bullshit.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2023 8:06 utc | 249
It’s all they’re able to produce now.
And for quiet some time.
Still does enormous damage to others though!

Posted by: jpc | Jun 10 2023 10:07 utc | 276

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 10 2023 10:03 utc | 274
Hard to tell if the Poles or the Ukrainians are the bigger crooks here………..but no doubt the Pentagon has a clear idea of where everything is ending up……as they continually assure those who question Pentagon accounting

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 10:07 utc | 277

Posted by: Milites | Jun 10 2023 10:00 utc | 273
“You might be a tad surprised when you read the Russian Army’s post-operation analysis of the SMO in 2024-5.”
If there is an English translation, I’ll read it then. Until then, any defects in Russian military performance were probably minor and not visible on the results so far. People forget the US military in Iraq had all sorts of problems, too. They still won.
What did Spock say? “A difference that makes no difference is no difference.”
It’s far from calling Gerasimov a “blockhead” without any evidence. Compared to the Ukraine/NATO performance, the Russians are past masters.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2023 10:08 utc | 278

We, the multinational people of Ukraine, believe that all people are equal and have rights that no one has the right to alienate
How can you be a “multinational people” in a nation state ?
“noone” ????? What does that mean ???
How are “all people…equal” ??? in what sense ?
This is meaningless persiflage

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 10:10 utc | 279

Posted by: Rune Denmark | Jun 10 2023 8:59 utc | 265
You really only need the turret

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 10:11 utc | 280

But when you say “since 1997”, that takes me by surprise. I assume you have some data to back that up?
Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 8:34 utc | 256
I’d imagine that Youg is alluding to the feeling that the USSR hadn’t been dismembered enough post 91. I seem to recall talks of an independent Siberia doing the rounds in media during the late 90s.

Posted by: jpc | Jun 10 2023 10:15 utc | 281

274 – “Oh yeah. Those two guys.” (Sopranos reference)

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 10 2023 10:16 utc | 282

!!!!! Did I see that right? One Bradley was providing suppressing fire and the rest of the AFVs rushed past IN FRONT OF THE GUN rather than behind it?
And then when one got clobbered that Bradley just kept firing into that AFV that was no more than two-three meters away?
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 10 2023 8:56 utc | 263
That was a tank firing, not a Bradley, perhaps a Leopard. The length of the gun says it, and confirmed by the trajectory of the shots. but it’s a surprising destruction by friendly fire. Are they that incompetent?

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 10 2023 10:17 utc | 283

How can you be a “multinational people” in a nation state ?
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 10 2023 10:10 utc | 278

Like Russia is a “multinational people”, to name one…

Posted by: Poslan1 | Jun 10 2023 10:17 utc | 284

271 – Well, General Lee seemed to think that the Union centre was weak after Confederate attacks on the Union right on July 1 and the left on July 2.
I visited the Gettysburg battlefield as a kid in the 1970s and it seemed pretty suicidal to me that anyone would attack over a field like that.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 10 2023 10:19 utc | 285

@Johnny | Jun 10 2023 0:04 utc | 158
Re: Boris Johnson stock portfolio /motivation.
@Moses22 | Jun 10 2023 1:39 utc | 178
Re NATO Exercises …and wider thread debate on.
Johnny: exactly – Boris reminds of Sabbath’s War pigs lyrics, a blunt bench/whack-a-mole hammer active in John Perkins’ EHM books shenanigans… I’d still like to see his portfolios, as would, I’m sure Julian…were he a free man again! it’d bleach that glitzy rose tint off many dull eyes and dawn a wider sober reality of what this gig is really about.
If we’re truly going where I think we’re headed ..(conflict/attrition/compliance as means of techno amplified Transnational Dirigsme to serfdom) ..we’re drinking at the last chance saloon. L’Chayim! Bar flies!
I didn’t mention NATO exercises as I don’t see them as a direct threat of conflict expansion, more a louder screeching Sabre rattle. It’s door bouncers – metallic insecurities comforters and secure comms ego soothers for power’s delegated minions knee trembling emissaries in Vilnius aka dancing fools with laser dots. Anyone see the paranoid search patterns across Scandinavia on Monkeywerx?
Exercises meanwhile go about their usual disruption/distraction cover for mining pipelines, data harvests, tapping outside comms. etc and full spectrum technicolor diversion to significant under radar op(s). Launch elsewhere. I sincerely hope CIS EAEU and SCO BRICS and other partners are preparing for wicked witch of west to hurl her entire spellbook before being finally crushed by her own hubris and idiocy.
This death however will take time as chapters of economic leverage, pharmacological, social and econ-environmental compliance are compiled of vomit soups of nefarious trickery which must be waded to comprehend devious intent…the armory/laboratory is still to empty/be contained -most importantly US Virginia Class subs….
@sean the leprechaun …the book is open! …bottle of Château Fontpinot XO as stake?

Posted by: Mercury | Jun 10 2023 10:20 utc | 286

280 – “Siberian separatism” is name-checked in the 1990s James Bond film “Goldeneye” which is very much set in an atmosphere of post-Soviet collapse.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 10 2023 10:21 utc | 287

Posted by: Poslan1 | Jun 10 2023 10:17 utc | 283
The “nrvch” web site asks people to sign the declaration by uploading a picture of their passport. Personally, I would not do that. The risks are substantial. What is your opinion?

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 10:25 utc | 288

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 10 2023 10:21 utc | 286
Good point.
Very subliminal.
There was a general being mooted as a potential leader who got killed in a helicopter crash.
Can’t remember his name.

Posted by: jpc | Jun 10 2023 10:32 utc | 289

The “nrvch” web site asks people to sign the declaration by uploading a picture of their passport. Personally, I would not do that. The risks are substantial. What is your opinion?
Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 10:25 utc | 287

I am sure that no sane person in the West and especially in the Eastern Europe can trust ANY site at all with their persona info. FBI is on their own “Turkey Shoot” right now, and in the EU it’s SBU as well.
But to attract their vivtims they have to make their bait plausible, even attractive.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Jun 10 2023 10:34 utc | 290

288 – Under the crowd-pleasing gadgets and girls, James Bond films tend to have some connection to the Zeitgeist, current events and are almost certainly made with input from Western intelligence services.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 10 2023 10:38 utc | 291

This “Declaration of Protection of the Ukrainian People” is modeled on the US “Declaration of Independence”, which in my opinion is already a hint as to who wrote this document.
We, the multinational people of Ukraine, believe that all people are equal and have rights that no one has the right to alienate. These rights include the right to life, liberty, personal integrity, happiness, and others. States and governments are created by people to ensure these rights. If any form of government becomes disastrous for the goal itself, the people have the right to change it, or completely abolish it and establish new forms of government.
Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 9:56 utc | 270
Is that for real? So the war’s at an end then? They recognise the right for Donbas States to ‘establish new forms of government’ seeing as their ‘life, liberty, personal integrity, happiness’ which the then current government was ‘disastrous’ to.
Well that’s wonderful news. Who would have thought it? Seemed to me they were a bunch of totally evil F***wits. I had no idea they were so elevated in mind.

Posted by: abrogard | Jun 10 2023 10:40 utc | 292

The Rheinmetall plant outlined the timing of the creation of the latest Panther in Ukraine
At the Rheinmetall plant under construction in Ukraine, production of the latest German Panther KF51 tank can begin in 15-20 months.
🇩🇪 This opinion was expressed by the head of the German defense concern Rheinmetall Armin Papperger in a conversation with RND. According to him, now the plant is preparing Panther for mass production.
“>https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1667481106319302656

That’s a pretty brave investment, to invest hundreds of millions or even billions on a tank factory in Ukraine.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 10 2023 10:42 utc | 293

One good picture from KSA
via the blog “>http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/06/wow-whats-missing.html
and one good comment there:
Paul Greenwood , an hour ago
The irony is supreme.
On his return from the Conference at Yalta in 1945 where Roosevelt had shafted Churchill as a sign of the New Postwar Era of British irrelevance…………FDR made a visit to Britain’s ally Ibn Saud to invite him to sign up with the New Power in the World………
The US-Saudi love affair could not have started on a more symbolic date: 14 February 1945, Valentine’s Day, in the year that WW2 ended.
The setting was the American warship USS Quincy, in the Suez Canal.
The players were President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Abdul Aziz bin Abdul Rahman Al Saud, the undisputed leader of Saudi Arabia. At stake was the oil needed to fuel the American war effort, and US post-war recovery
So Russia and Crimea in particular are common to both situations !

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 10 2023 10:48 utc | 294

Posted by: abrogard | Jun 10 2023 10:40 utc | 291
The purpose of the nrvch site seems to be to gather the names of Ukrainians who do not agree with the current Ukranian government. The text of the document shows that it is well-known what the Ukrainian people want.

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 10 2023 10:52 utc | 295

Re Bond
A Bronze bust of Ian Fleming sits in lobby of Fleming Family Private Bank in Dover St. Mayfair. atop a white marble and black granite masonic style checkerboard tiled floor….now there’s a rabbit hole.
Was most interested No Time to Die had a a programmable DNA-targeting nanobots and secret labs theme…and was due for release before covid – Director swaps and production delays nixed it to after the event – there’s a howler of a Zeitgeist topic.
Apologies to b for off topic. ….seemed relevant?

Posted by: Mercury | Jun 10 2023 10:53 utc | 296

One picture from western media:
https://cdn-assets.ziniopro.com/var/site_720/storage/images/media2/cover566/2776031-1-eng-US/cover2.jpg?t=ipad_portrait_cover
via https://theweek.com/magazine-stand
Jesus fucking Christ! this is the picture for “16 June 2023” (quote).
I get it that they already paid to the artists and now kinda have to justify the investment by publishign the long ready product. But… ahem… Perhaps they’d better just write those investment off and pay for some new, neutral picture instead.

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 10 2023 10:53 utc | 297

@laguerre | Jun 10 2023 10:17 utc | 282
Nope, that is an infantry fighting vehicle not a tank. Look at a video where a tank fires its main gun… completely different…

Posted by: NoName | Jun 10 2023 11:07 utc | 298

laguerre | Jun 10 2023 10:17 utc | 282
I don’t know if perhaps you’re referring to a different video than Yeah, Right did in his 263 comment, but in the video he is talking about it’s definitely an M2 Bradley firing.
The weapon firing there is an autocannon, not a tank’s main gun. Below the autocannon, you can see a kind of ring standing out from the rest of the hull. That’s the M2 driver’s hatch, positioned front-left. You can also tell it’s a Bradley from the sound of the engine.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jun 10 2023 11:08 utc | 299

Arioch
Thanks for that, Felix Dennis – original publisher of The Week was counterculture’ist behind OZ magazine. After imprisonment he kept opinions closer to chest. A very different fox runs the hen-house now.

Posted by: Mercury | Jun 10 2023 11:09 utc | 300