On the assumption that what B has reported here is credible circumstantial evidence, this makes Britain complicit together with Ukraine in the attack on the Nova Kakhovka dam. Britain would have had to know that Ukraine would use the "Storm Shadow" missiles on civilian infrastructure such as the dam. It is very likely the Ukrainians will try destroying the Crimea Bridge again using another such missile.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 13 2023 5:42 utc | 1

It sounds very much like British interference to me. Our Govt are knee deep in this. I wonder why Ukraine refused the convening of an international commissiom to investigate the Dam breach. Their actions after it were appalling opening the gates of the Dnieper Dam so more water would flow in. Then placing soldiers at evacuation points to shoot civilians fleeing the scene.

Zelensky really should be put on trial. He's really dangerous. The collective West need to grow up and fast. Their pathetic little narrative has run out of steam.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jun 13 2023 5:49 utc | 2

One thing is for sure - it wasn't the Russians who attacked themselves. The scenario presented here is plausible. If true it is an act of war by Britain.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 5:58 utc | 3

Thanks for the posting b. Quite the expose if true.

So, is King Chuck behind this? I wouldn't think him up to it but him and Pope Frank have some explaining to do about how the West is really controlled.

I read elsewhere that bio-chemical terrorism is likely again as desperation mounts for empire but I hope this civilization war ends soon.

The shit show continues until it doesn't and we still don't really know who are behind the curtain in the West, do we? Who are we going to die for?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13 2023 6:28 utc | 4

Where is the head of the monster?

One Western intelligence agency or network is responsible for a long chain of false-flag attacks and massacres, from the 2013 Ghouta sarin massacre to MH17 (most likely) to Kakhova. I have never been able to locate the head of the monster, but events like the Skripal poisoning and Russiagate have lead me to believe that these operations are more likely directed from UK than from the United States.

I have also warned that any nuclear accident at the ZNPP may lead to Russian Kinzhal strike at the MI6 headquarters in London.

Me in 2014:

Russia, Libya, Syria, & MH17 - Monitor on Massacre Marketing, July 23, 2014

I spent an hour yesterday yelling my head off on the telephone with my friend and Finnish contact in Moscow. This was after looking at the shrapnel patterns on the wreckage and finally realizing that MH17 was not an accident but a false-flag attack targeted at Russia and Putin personally. The reason for my anger was the total incompetence and the total unpreparedness of Russia in facing MH17 – and more generally – the lack of support Russia has given to those fighting for Russian interests in the information war in the English speaking world.

The MH17 attack could not have been a surprise. In fact, on the morning of July 17th the air was so full of anticipation of "something happening" that you could almost cut it with a knife.

I have been investigating this crime for three years, that is long before it even happened. This is not an isolated crime but only one in a long series of geopolitical crimes, each one them coming closer and closer to Moscow. Each one of them directed from the same command center somewhere deep in the Empire of Chaos* – with full participation of the bullhorns of the Western "free" press. With my friend Adam Larson we have been able to solve many or even most of these "massacres" and show that they are false-flag attacks.

In all these years we have received no help or support from Russia or the Russian civil society. If Russia ever did any proper investigation on anything, it is buried so deep in the Runet that knowledge of it has never entered the English speaking world.

Medvedev's Russia agreed in the UN Security Council on devastating economic sanctions on Libya, including freezing $ 100 billion of assets on February 26th, only three days after the "al Baida Massacre", a jihadist massacre of Libyan solders claimed by international Human Rights organizations to be Gaddafi "killing his own people!"

A month later Russia abandoned Libya to the mercy of the Western genocide machinery. Massacre after massacre followed, all of them attributed to Gaddafi and his "regime".

If Russia ever had any real intelligence on the Ghouta CW massacre, it never shared it. Russia may have put its Mediterranean fleet face to face with the US fleet, maybe even showed off its nuclear warheads but it never really challenged the US on the information front.

(more)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 13 2023 6:31 utc | 5

The dam could have been also a drone carrying some sort of shaped charges. Don't believe the earlier "floating naval mine" theory.

It was reported that the time of the dam failing also resulted a seismological event very far away in Romania, which means it was a large charge, penetrating into the earth itself. If it was this Storm shadow, did it go through water to hit the dam, or did it simply penetrate the dam concrete from above and somehow managed to go all the way through into the earth?

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 6:41 utc | 6

As I wrote on June 6th:

FALSE FLAG! 🇺🇦 FALSE FLAG! 🇺🇦

This is a well planned British false-flag operation. I opened Google Maps to see which side of the dam the flood gates are (or were) located. I see that the area downriver from the dam is covered with red warning dots with the text Nova Kakhovka dam collapse. All the dots are placed on the southern, Russian side of the river. If I click on the dots a side panel opens with this text.

Nova Kakhovka dam collapse

< removed NATO propaganda >

The riverbank to the north of the Dnieper is high ground, while to the south is lowlands. The flood will mainly affect the southern, Russian side, while the "Ukrainian" side to the north will be largely unaffected. Why would any civilian, if there happen to be any in these frontline areas, look for evacuation information from Ukrainian government sites? And worse yet, in Ukrainian? ("Ukrainians" will speak Ukrainian in public, but under stress or in panic they will switch to their native Russian.)

Google's "helpful" disaster page serves no purpose. It creates an illusion that Country 404 exist and has control over something. Also, it promotes the lie that "Russia blew up the dam". (Like they blew up Nord Stream.) It is thus a part of the false flag operation.

Ukraine and the UK want to invoke NATO Article 5. NATO wants Russia to go nuclear.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 13 2023 6:43 utc | 7

Locals reportedly said in chat messages shortly before the dam collapsed that they heard loud explosions.
https://twitter.com/COUPSURE/status/1666031403471982592

Seismic monitoring organisation NORSAR say they detected a signal that had the characteristics of an explosion but unfortunately they don't give many details of the data that would allow it to be analysed.
https://www.jordskjelv.no/meldinger/seismic-signals-recorded-from-an-explosion-at-the-kakhovka-dam-in-ukraine
https://twitter.com/QuentinBrissaud/status/1666835054188691459

Posted by: Brendan | Jun 13 2023 6:50 utc | 8

I have no idea how the dam was destroyed, but I do know one particular fact about British toffs: they are absolutely obsessed with blowing up dams.

See the 1955 movie "The Dam Busters" for more (also featured in Pink Floyd's The Wall) as well as "Operation Chastise" from WW2 that took place in 1943.

Furthermore, the British don't give a crap about the environmental disasters such actions cause OR the vast number of civilians killed or put into peril. They just like blowing up dams, period.

Posted by: Sam (in Tiraspol) | Jun 13 2023 6:51 utc | 9

1/. Ukrhydroenergo temporarily stopped measuring the water level in the Kakhovka reservoir, as it fell below the level of the sensors. In addition, according to Ukrhydroenergo, due to a sharp drop in the water level in the lower reservoir of the Dnieper hydroelectric power station (located in Zaporozhye), the station's hydroelectric units operate with restrictions. https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/status/1668505456698900480

2/ This is how the bottom of the Kakhovka reservoir looks now
https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/status/1668505295465725957

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 13 2023 6:52 utc | 10

USA announce 22 injured in a helicopter accident in Syria, My feeling is these seem to be conveniently timed around major actions in Ukraine and are used as cover for USA troops killed and injured. Think last month Alaska Airforce hih level officers killed in an "accident" around the same time as NATO command bunker met mr kinzhal

Posted by: hankster | Jun 13 2023 6:53 utc | 11

Workers Bush Telegraph has republished an article from an history professor at Yale that purports to present a balanced approach to reporting of the breach.

A few of the points he makes;

3. Citing Russian claims next to Ukrainian claims is unfair to the Ukrainians. In this war, what Russian spokespersons have said has almost always been untrue, whereas what Ukrainian spokespersons have said has largely been reliable. The juxtaposition suggests an equality that makes it impossible for the reader to understand that important difference.

4. If a Russian spokesman (e.g. Dmitri Peskov) must be cited, it must be mentioned that this specific figure has lied about every aspect of this war since it began. This is context. Readers picking up the story in the middle need to know such background.
7. Dams are physical objects. Whether or how they can be destroyed is a subject for people who know what they are talking about. Although this valuable NYT story exhibits the above flaws, it has the great merit of treating dams as physical rather than narrative objects. When this exercise is performed, it seems clear that the dam could only have been destroyed by an explosion from the inside.

8. Russia was in control of the relevant part of the dam when it exploded. This is an elemental part of the context. It comes before what anyone says. When a murder is investigated, detectives think about means. Russia had the means. Ukraine did not.

9. The story doesn’t start at the moment the dam explodes. Readers need to know that for the last fifteen months Russia has been killing Ukrainian civilians and destroying Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, whereas Ukraine has been trying to protect its people and the structures that keep them alive.

10. The setting also includes history. Military history offers an elemental point. Armies that are attacking do not blow dams to block their own path of advance. Armies that are retreating do blow dams to slow the advance of the other side. At the relevant moment, Ukraine was advancing, and Russia was retreating.

I thought I'd share this to give you barflies some LOLs.

Posted by: Dadda | Jun 13 2023 6:53 utc | 12

As I posted in previous thread:
IEIA chief potato Grossi in Kiev to discuss ZapNPP.
??? False flag pending???
news. yahoo. com/ iaea-head-meet-zelensky-discuss-161457672.html

In the immediate aftermath of the Kakhovka dam's destruction, the IAEA said that there was "no immediate risk" to nuclear safety at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant.
According to Grossi, he will present an assistance program for the nuclear plant, survey the situation there, and conduct an expert rotation "with a strengthened team."
IAEA experts have been on site monitoring the situation[waiting their chance to stir shit] at the nuclear power plant since last fall

If Russia has control of ZapNPP, why is Grossi in Kiev to “discuss” anything. ?

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 13 2023 6:56 utc | 13

I believe Ukraine in Gaelic mean's "A whale's vagina"

Posted by: Jacq | Jun 13 2023 7:05 utc | 14

@hankster | Jun 13 2023 6:53 utc | 11

Yesterday some tg channels said that a Russian military convoy was attacked in Aleppo, showed some photos of destroyed something like a green truck, they couldn't verify the news and there were no updates since then

Posted by: rk | Jun 13 2023 7:06 utc | 15

Well, when will we hear about some missile attacking London...?

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 7:08 utc | 16

@Brendan | Jun 13 2023 6:50 utc | 8

Seismic monitoring organisation NORSAR say they detected a signal that had the characteristics of an explosion but unfortunately they don't give many details of the data that would allow it to be analysed.

NORSAR Refers to data from the Bukovina (BURAR) seismic array in northern Romania, "approximately 620 km from the dam".

A NEW SEISMIC STATION IN ROMANIA: THE BUCOVINA SEISMIC ARRAY

January 2004

Recently, a new seismic monitoring station, the Bucovina Seismic Array, has been established in the northern part of Romania, in a joint effort of the Air Force Technical Applications Center, USA, and the National Institute for Earth Physics, Romania. The array consists of 10 seismic sensors (9 short-period and one broad band) located in boreholes and distributed on a 5 × 5 km area. Starting July 24, 2002, the new seismic monitoring system became fully operational by continuous recording and transmitting data in real-time to the National Data Center of Romania, in Bucharest and to the National Data Center of USA, in Florida. Bucovina Seismic Array, added to the present Seismic Network, will provide much better seismic monitoring coverage of Romania's territory, on-scale recording for weak-to-strong events, and will contribute to advanced seismological studies on seismic hazard and risk, local effects and microzonation, seismic source physics, Earth structure.

(my emphasis)

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 7:09 utc | 17

Current status of dam?

Some Russian sources speculated, that only the upper structure of the dam was destroyed, but the base structure was intact. I believe all of the dam structure was washed away, except for the extreme ends. The question is unanswered, as I have not seen any photo or video of the dam, except from the first day. Russia seems to be censoring footage from the dam.

If only the upper structures were destroyed, then a smaller Kakhovka Reservoir will remain, and the North Crimean Canal and the ZNPP might get irrigation and cooling water. If the whole structure was washed away, then the water level will drop by 16 meters and flow of water will dig even deeper into the soil, making rebuilding the dam difficult or even impossible.

Don't believe the earlier "floating naval mine" theory.

It was reported that the time of the dam failing also resulted a seismological event very far away in Romania, which means it was a large charge, penetrating into the earth itself. If it was this Storm shadow, did it go through water to hit the dam, or did it simply penetrate the dam concrete from above and somehow managed to go all the way through into the earth?

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 6:41 utc | 6

The concrete base of the dam was exposed on the western, downstream side of the dam. I believe the base is either hollow, or filled with loose earth. For maximum damage, the missile would need to penetrate the downstream shell and explode inside.

A floating naval mine would not damage the base of the dam. It would only damage the floodgates and the pylons supporting them. For complete destruction of the dam, one would need a submersible mine and a team of "Nord Stream" divers to plant it.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 13 2023 7:09 utc | 18

The changes in landscape after Kahovka Dam breech.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1668390928413863937

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 13 2023 7:13 utc | 19

I believe Ukraine in Gaelic mean's "A whale's vagina"

Posted by: Jacq | Jun 13 2023 7:05 utc | 14
------------------

The Ukraine is a quite beautiful country (don't know how it is with whale's vagina, though), but the Ukrainians, especially those, who occupy the western part of that artificial country are prone to become Nazis -- they showed that ability when Hitler was in power...and, now with Biden in power across the big pond.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 7:15 utc | 20

Time magazine. Twitter account
How Ukraine's dam collapse could become the country's 'Chernobyl'
Community notes:
“Readers added context they thought people might want to know……
>…While the article is grounded and written by Ukraine experts, the headline is misleading.
Chernobyl is already Ukraine's own Chernobyl, because it is a city in Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1668083952039362561

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 13 2023 7:21 utc | 21

With Boris gone, one of the most vocal political supporters of Ukraine has left the political stage.
That signals the start of waning political support. It can quickly become a rout, as modern politicians act like sheep. The will gather where the most sheep are, irrespective of any logic or good sense.
They are afraid of standing alone.

Posted by: g wiltek | Jun 13 2023 7:21 utc | 22

There is an interesting editorial in Rybar english today which not only indicates that the current RF army wouldn't consider something as pointless as blowing their own bridge, it also tells us that facile amerika has roused the bear which just as it did in the Great Patriotic War, has shifted its structure to properly deal with fighting amerika by proxy in 2023:

"After talking today with respected comrades and @NeoficialniyBeZsonoV, after contacting some units at the front and volunteers, we came to a cautious conclusion - we, as a people, as the Russian Army, are learning to fight.

With the creak of old wheels, the military machine of Russia gradually accelerates and begins to move at the speed declared in the performance characteristics. There are still a lot of problems to be solved, but the process has begun.

This was done, in many respects (not in everything, of course), not thanks to the existing system, but in spite of it. Of course, the existing organizational structure is outdated, but it consists of people, not soulless robots that follow instructions and decrepit orders.

For the sake of helping the Army, people began to build horizontal connections and share experience. The front-line soldiers and rear officers themselves are becoming more and more actively involved in the work, oh horror, through Telegram, which is ungodly for the ZGT.

So far, everything is going with a creak, but there are first results. So far, beautiful reports are still preserved, attempts to portray that the event was a success "under the strict guidance and in strict accordance with ...", but this is a lie.

When we stop lying to ourselves that FPV drones on the personnel of the Ministry of Defense materialized out of thin air, until the tires on military vehicles are written off after the fact (and not the standard mileage), until the current logistics system is introduced in the Russian Armed Forces (ayy, smelly Yandex, broad-shouldered Atlas of Russian capitalism, where are you?), everything will go with a creak.

The process has already begun. The main thing is not to give out modest successes for a titanic breakthrough thanks to "strict implementation of plans for the implementation of plans." Otherwise, stagnation again. And this is death."

amerika and nato satraps look out cos Russia is better organised & prepared to have a blue with you lot than any amount of oppressing people of third world nations could ever teach you.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 13 2023 7:25 utc | 23

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 13 2023 7:09 utc | 18

It would also be an imagineable theory, that the British have driven a submersible drone upstream of Dnepr, and wedged it into the root of the dam (between soil and structure). There is the special naval base near Ochakov which have been actively used for sea drone attacks on Crimea and they really seem to love those submersibles for everything. The base has supposedly been blown up a couple of times already but drones like that can be launched from anywhere.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 7:30 utc | 24

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 13 2023 5:42 utc | 1

On the assumption...circumstantial evidence...this makes Britain complicit...Britain would have had to know..."

Your word choice betrays your argument.

Posted by: Old Fart Legion | Jun 13 2023 7:31 utc | 25

Maidan Square (Independence) in Kiev?
Will be Russia Square.
- Dmitry Medvedev June 12

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 7:38 utc | 26

It means, as I said before, that 200kms west of Kiev would have to be connected to RF.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 7:39 utc | 27

The WO II "dam busters" caused a lot of deaths, mostly Soviet prisoners of war. So again , thank you England. UK and USA keep playing the same disgusting scenario, protecting NAZI ideology while pretending to condemn it.

Posted by: Anthony | Jun 13 2023 7:39 utc | 28

Which reminds me that Galloway had Seymour Hersh on his Sunday night (amerika & Europe) show. Apart from explaining to George that rfk jnr would be little or no improvement on the current senile prick, Mr Hersh told the world that he has a new story soon to be published about who really did blow up the Nova Kakhova Dam.
I'd say there is no chance that he is going to point the finger at Russia since making a big deal about the dam, only to reveal what western media has been claiming for a week or so is not going to generate more substack subscriptions, when underwriting the S Hersh retirement package appears to be a major focus for the perennial freelancer who has likely never benefited from a corporation plan. Fair enough I say especially considering he has maintained his credibility while doing so.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 13 2023 7:40 utc | 29

I don't mind London knocked off too, if possible, in my lifetime... :)

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 7:42 utc | 30

I don't mind seeing Britain having economical problems, as severe as possible...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 7:45 utc | 31

German made used be a source label that meant high quality.
Annalena Baerbock asks media not to call "Leopards" German: "Understand, it does not matter at all where what is made. You don't say about your iPhone that it's American or Tim Cook's. You say it's yours. It's the same story with tanks... German [tanks] in Germany, and these are Ukrainian. And what they do with them has nothing to do with us. Thank you!"
yeah who would want to own that epic fail

Posted by: hankster | Jun 13 2023 7:51 utc | 32

20 October 2022, 205th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade https://t.me/mototroopers_205/377

Yes orders to retreat to the left bank. There is a week's time. A lot of equipment from the locations bordering Kherson is already being transferred. Objectively it's very difficult. To retreat on the attack of enemy troops means the possibility of their advancing further than is permissible, i.e. to the left bank. There is confirmed information that we mine the dam, and undermine it in case of uncontrolled enemy advance. Quote from the operation plan. (...) If for myself, I advise everyone who can evacuate to do so. It has nothing to do with civilians. And it doesn't matter what territory. Just leave. I estimate the dam will be blown with a 70% probability.

In another announcement they also give advice to their troops how to make it to safety when the dam is blown up.

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 8:05 utc | 33

If Russia has control of ZapNPP, why is Grossi in Kiev to “discuss” anything. ?
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 13 2023 6:56 utc | 13

UN and others like Grossi don't recognize anything as part of Russia. ZNPP, the dam and everything is Ukr. UN is listing all people affected by the dam as Ukr and they still include Crimea in statistics.
msm even these days still says Russia attacks the "Ukr NPP". Repeating that ZNPP is controlled by Ukr and attacked by Russia is good propaganda if nato decides to blow up ZNPP. This is made easy by the constant retreat of the smo even after referendums, everything seems open to negotiations or ready to surrender with no fight. Water danger can be replaced by nuclear danger and in two weeks Zap can be left like Kherson. By a different loser this time.

Posted by: rk | Jun 13 2023 8:15 utc | 34

By the way, indirectly related to the dam incident. But it was one of the two UKR channels (Legitimny, rezident_UA) which said that Zelensky has demanded AFU to open up another front across the Dnepr either at Kakohvka, ZNPP or between or everywhere. Most likely they expect river to dry in 2-3 weeks to be able to cross it with mass infantry waves. The idea is to stretch RU line.

If that happens, it would seem sensible to launch a Kinzhal in one of the upstream dams to wash those assaults.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 8:19 utc | 35

NATO is looking for a new secretary general after the Norwegian "Quisling" and it could be a woman, Mette Frederiksen, or Ben Wallace (former captain of Scots Guards). NATO appears to be happy with a woman running it, but it would be nice to have the Scottish captain as the NATO chief. That way, NATO would become even shitty than it is today, and maybe "someone" would hit Britain...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 8:33 utc | 36

Thank You for the information.

I would like to know if there are images of the cross sections of the dam.
There is the part with the flood gates. That is probably made of concrete.
Then there is the part between the lock and the power station. To me it
looks like a dam made of earth with a core. Both parts are damaged
obviously. So there must have been more than one explosion. To damage
the part with the flood gates is not very difficult in my opinion.
To damage the other part is not so easy. A Storm Shadow with a two-stage
warhead could have done it.

Posted by: H. E. | Jun 13 2023 8:43 utc | 37

@ 34.

The predictionable & alarmist tone you employ is tiresome, do you ponder Ukr retreats, losses or setbacks. In your thought process at all?

By your logic the Chechnya would've seized the whole North Caucasus, after Russia's unambiguous loss in the first phase of the Chechen War. When the RF was many times weaker than today, and suffered more military dead.

Only that didn't happen, because Chechn separatists couldn't beat even a demoralised & broke RF, no matter what outside aid they got. Ukraine won't beat Russia either. And NATO ain't doing s**t directly.

So take a chill pill & calm the f**k down.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Jun 13 2023 8:44 utc | 38

Interesting video report of RF adopting a “mini” version of the BM-21 Grad launcher vehicle, standard 122mm caliber rockets but shorter length with shorter range. Quite a good video summary of BM-21 Grad usage in general, plus Tornado-G which is a Grad launcher vehicle with targeting automation electronics.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JRlHpZtiyrY

Reduced range puts the launcher at greater risk and lack of laser-correction means that Katyusha’s daughters are unable to economically engage dispersed targets.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 13 2023 8:49 utc | 39

@ 34.

The predictionable & alarmist tone you employ is tiresome, do you ponder Ukr retreats, losses or setbacks. In your thought process at all?

By your logic Chechnya would've seized the whole North Caucasus, after Russia's unambiguous loss in the first phase of the Chechen War. When the RF was far weaker, and suffered more military dead.

Only that didn't happen, because Chechn separatists couldn't beat a demoralised & broke RF, no matter how much outside help they got. Ukraine wont beat Russia either, they don't have the capacity. And NATO ain't doing s**t directly.

So take a chill-pill and calm the f**k down.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Jun 13 2023 8:51 utc | 40

@35

Is it politically correct to say "it would seem sensible to launch a Kinzhal in one of the upstream dams to wash those assaults" after such assault has been just washed and the entire effort here is to prove it was Ukraine that washed its own troops?

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 8:55 utc | 41

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 8:33 utc | 36
"NATO is looking for a new secretary general after the Norwegian "Quisling" and it could be a woman, Mette Frederiksen, or Ben Wallace (former captain of Scots Guards). NATO appears to be happy with a woman running it, but it would be nice to have the Scottish captain as the NATO chief. That way, NATO would become even shitty than it is today, and maybe "someone" would hit Britain..."

Mette Frederiksen is the prime minister of Denmark. She is absolutely ruthless and power hungry, and acts like a modern version of PolPot. She was in the vanguard of lockdown, and her behaviour during lockdown in Denmark was on par with what you would indeed expect of Stalin, PolPot etc. Among other things, she was directly responsible for the mass culling of 15 million mink, and their burial, and subsequent exhumation(?), as the water supply was affected. An absolute disaster in whichever way it is viewed.
The pelts were not even used. Absolute grotesque abuse of power.
I have no proof, but I bet she took orders from people behind the curtain, IMF, WHO, Bill Gates etc.
She will do exactly what she is being told, and do it with relish!. If you think Stoltenberg is bad, you aint seen nothing yet!!

Posted by: g wiltek | Jun 13 2023 9:01 utc | 42

The idea behind blowing up the Kakhovka dam is to get the riverbed dry for the Ukie/NATO (trained) troops to cross it. Only, have they ever read what happened in the WW2 on the same Dniepr river? There's a dam upstream in the city of Dniepro (formerly Dniepropetrovsk), which can be blown too. And, that can be done by the RF forces, if the need arises, as in 29 August 1941.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 9:03 utc | 43

according to RT, a Leopard with Nazi insignia is now filmed. Really, is this is WOII part two or WOIII? Does the "West" have no shame at all?

Posted by: Anthony | Jun 13 2023 9:03 utc | 44

Posted by: g wiltek | Jun 13 2023 9:01 utc | 42
------------

Neither Denmark nor Norway is a problem to Russian Federation, military-wise. Denmark has ~5.8 million people, Norway ~5.3 million people. Knock off the stuff in the North Sea, or the 'Norwegian Sea', the economy of both countries would suffer immensely. Britain on the other hand is ~66 million. Knocking off stuff on those two seas will make Britain suffer too, but with that amount of population, it'd have some cannon fodder. So, better have Ben Wallace, a British hot headed fool as the NATO chief. It is better to hit a man than a woman... in a way... :)

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 9:13 utc | 45

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 6:41 utc | 6
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 13 2023 7:09 utc | 18

I’d always assumed the risk was from a kind of narco-sub packed with a huge warhead and cruising at the correct depth for maximum damage. Missiles and surface explosions would be easily caught on camera, though it’s plausible that RF has such footage but chooses not to publish it right now.

According to the Big Serge article, RF chose to ramp up the water level in the dam right before it failed. He speculates that this was to have extra water on hand to use as a weapon against a possible UA attack downstream but this would be to weaponise the dam and make it a target.

Was the MoD suckered into raising the water level?

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 13 2023 9:14 utc | 46

By the way, those trofea Bradleys and the Nazi 'cats' would be used against the Nazis in time... :)

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 9:16 utc | 47

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 8:55 utc | 41

There was no AFU assault in Kherson. Only the defensive positions on RU side of Kherson have been washed up, including the minefields. Most likely the purpose of destroying the dam (as per several analysts, like Big Serge) was to remove the leverage of RU in that they controlled Kakohvka dam which could be opened at a moments notice in the event of UKR assault attempt over Dnepr lower to Kakohvka. Now RU has no possibility or control to wash any AFU assault.

But since dams have been made free-for-all, there's no qualms in then blowing a dam upstream river of Kakohvka in the event AFU tries to utilize a dried river bed for assault. During the draining of Kakohvka reservoir, AFU kept the dams upstream open to feed the flood downstream. Of course, RU doesn't play by those dirty rules because they are not "British", but who knows.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 9:21 utc | 48

#29 Debsisdead
The pretty constant theme in the commentary about the act of terrorism that destroyed the dam, is that the involvement of British Special Forces was central.
When the Nordstream pipeline was destroyed in a similar act of terrorism, and when the Crimea bridge was blown up, I could not envisage such actions happening on the continent of Europe without the involvement of British Special Forces.
But the venerable Hersch says no to this idea, and is on the verge, according to Galloway, of another blockbuster exposee.
Should he exonerate the British Special Forces again, it will be most disappointing, what a wonderful reputation he used to have.

Posted by: Orchard1 | Jun 13 2023 9:26 utc | 49

@46

So if we try to summarize the versions voiced here so far:

> Ukraine blew up the dam to stop Russian offensive on Kherson
> Ukraine blew up the dam with a dozen of "Vilkha" rockets
> Russia has videos of these but won't publish
> Ukraine submarines delivered 4 tons of explosives underwater
> Russia has been tricked into destroying the dam
> Ukraine blew up the dam with Storm Shadow bunker busters
> Ukraine blew up the dam to enable their offensive on left bank when the Dnieper bottom dries
> Russia can blow up any dams to stop Ukrainian offensive if needed
> Russia of course did not blow up the dam

I must admit it all makes perfect sense together.

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 9:34 utc | 50

but I do know one particular fact about British toffs:

You clearly move in very odd circles. You should try and meet more normal people !

It is highly plausible that idiocy in Whitehall/Vauxhall Cross had SBS or SAS personnel orchestrate this disaster - or that Storm Shadow were programmed to inflict such damage.

Then again MI6 in Vauxhall Cross is in walking distance of this monstrosity.......
https://tinyurl.com/32c7ubkv

which is largest CIA station in Europe

I doubt any Storm Shadows are fired without US being aware

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 9:35 utc | 51

@48 so how come 205th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade voiced exactly that scenario on 20 October 2022? see full quote in comment @33 above

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 9:38 utc | 52

Posted by: Orchard1 | Jun 13 2023 9:26 utc | 49

You seem obsessed with British to the exclusion of all others.............however I believe Nordstream was a US action in cooperation with Norway which has significant capabilities in undersea pipelines and a specialist military capacity. These small Black Dragon drones captured in Ukraine are also a Norwegian product - just as are the submersible drones where Norway is a world leader

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/hugin-endurance-autonomous-underwater-vehicle-auv/

https://www.stripes.com/nato-researchers-test-underwater-drones-in-norway-1.344499

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 9:45 utc | 53

I believe Nordstream was a US action in cooperation with Norway

This is a claim put forward by Seymour Hersh without evidence.

I am perfectly willing to believe such claims when I see the evidence to support it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 9:51 utc | 54

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 7:30 utc | 24

Agreed, this must have been a recognised threat.

There have been one of two reports of RF forces intentionally breaching small dams / reservoirs for some piddling tactical advantage that is now lost in the breeze. It will take a lot longer to restore those pieces of civilian infrastructure than for the protagonists to recognised as pathetic clowns.

Assuming those reports to be true, and taking them together with RF MoD’s apparent intention to make a weapon out of the Nova Kakhova Dam, I’d say their policy concerning dams is strangely at odds with the humanitarian restrictions under which they conduct the rest of the SMO.

Relatedly there is the matter of the attacks on the Ukrainian power grid. Those don’t make sense now even taken in isolation, let alone compared to alternatives like slowly taking out UA’s limited stock of railway locomotives or railway bridges, or bridges full stop.

There appear to have been some very odd choices made in the matter of civilian infrastructure as targets or as weapons.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 13 2023 9:55 utc | 55

Relatedly there is the matter of the attacks on the Ukrainian power grid. Those don’t make sense now even taken in isolation,

Well, those attacks forced the activation of Ukrainian air defenses (S-300 and the like), which are now depleted.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:03 utc | 56

@54 Norwegian

in the end, does it really matter? There are two sides in this conflict, and on whose side is Norway?
(Even if many Norwegians and other Europeans are not at all happy with this choice, but helpless confronting their Deep State).

Posted by: Anthony | Jun 13 2023 10:04 utc | 57

Posted by: Anthony | Jun 13 2023 10:04 utc | 57

"Even if many Norwegians and other Europeans are not at all happy with this choice, but helpless confronting their Deep State"

Most of them seem use this site for confronting their deep state. Witness the amount of comments lately.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jun 13 2023 10:30 utc | 58

Anyone believes in the Ukrainian 'counteroffensive' any more?

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 10:33 utc | 59

Not sure if you've seen this, but this blogger has been looking at the flows & levels of the various rivers & lakes involved here. He's collected his posts from Big Serge & Simplicius here - along with his finding that the French database he was using strangely stopped including data some weeks ago. Well worth checking this out:

https://becomingbelte.rs/blog/10/overflowing-of-nova-kakhovka-dam

To be balanced though I'd suggest that the 'dog that hasn't barked here' is the lack of any video evidence of the strike. Not conclusive, but its surprising the Russians have not released any.

Posted by: Adrian Kent | Jun 13 2023 10:34 utc | 60

@Anthony | Jun 13 2023 10:04 utc | 57

Evidence matters, unless you are a follower of Karl Rove.

If you want a rational world based on law, you must accept the requirement for evidence for serious allegations, also if you would like the allegation to be true. If you don't accept that you have no defense when allegations you don't like are put forward.

The two sides of this conflict are "the rules based order" vs. "international law". I am on the side of international law.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:36 utc | 61

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 9:51 utc | 54

You have your viewpoint and threshold for belief. I have my viewpoint and my belief. It does not matter really - but if you expect to find "evidence" in matters of Secret Intelligence Operations which is going to "convince" you - you will be sadly disappointed but at least be able to live out your days in blissful ignorance.......

Look here.......
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-s-forgotten-hero-the-assassination-of-count-bernadotte-and-the-death-of-peace-934094.html

Who would have guessed ?

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 10:36 utc | 62

So sad to see this discussion become so boringly parochial when anyone from A. Einstein thru to Blind Freddie can see that the whole damn mob are responsible for this and every other atrocity committed in the name of that 'has ever only existed on paper state of Ukraine'.

I don't care if you're in Italy under a Meloni, Germany under a Schultz, england under Sunak or even amerika under biden, anyone who lives in those nations who does not fight to change their oligarchy's control is as responsible for this wanton destruction as the paid sociopaths who commit it. While I understand that not all who live in a society feel a part of it much less a participant, quite frankly if you're not fighting every day to get the truth out to your fellow citizens, you are in effect abetting the grubs and greedy drongos who have created this conflict.

Virtually every 'western nation' jumped aboard "the ukies are victims" tosh as soon as it appeared, yet even to most cursory glance at the situation shows that to be false. We cannot continue to dodge the reality that in most instances, it is 'our' governments which blindly support the obviously bound to fail, amerikan empire. Too many still lap up the few advantages remaining without ever confronting their culpability.

The time for hesitation is through
There's no time to while away the mire . . .

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 13 2023 10:38 utc | 63

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 13 2023 9:21 utc | 48
"Only the defensive positions on RU side of Kherson have been washed up, including the minefields."

People keep saying that - Daniel Davis said it on Napolitano yesterday. However we saw a report here in an earlier thread that the Russian primary defensive lines are some twenty miles away on elevations from the low-lying flooded areas. Maybe some minefields were damaged, but the main Russian defensive lines were not. Whatever defensive positions were washed away were probably in the "gray zone" ahead of the main defensive lines. The defensive lines themselves extend for 30km at least.

Larry Johnson said yesterday that in his view the Ukraine goal was to pile on another "war crime" on Russia, which is why Zelensky was complaining that the West hadn't sent troops in as a "humanitarian mission." The goal was to get NATO to send in troops. That failed miserably, so far at least.

Bottom line: Ukraine isn't going to get any military advantage from this flood. They might get a PR win if something happens to the NPP or the Crimea canal but that's about it. So the whole thing is another tempest in a tea pot with zero effect on the outcome.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 13 2023 10:38 utc | 64

Now that there's no Kakhovska dam to block the water flow, what would happen, when the upstream Dniepro Dam would be blown off? It once happened in 1941...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 10:41 utc | 65

@Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 10:36 utc | 62

If you accept that allegations must be taken at face value, I can make allegations as well. For example that Hersh's claim could be a distraction: Project guilt on some weak player in order to protect the real perpetrator.

Or he could be right. If so, why does he not show his evidence?

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:44 utc | 66

Re the earlier elec grid attacks:

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 13 2023 9:55 utc | 55

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:03 utc | 56

As Norwegian said, they were partly targetted to discover and kill UKR AD.

I also think they were a soft pre-winter threat to capitulate -- "See, we can get your low voltage stations (400kv). Would you like us to up the ante to kill your 750kv stations?" But the warning went unheeded, such that I think Putin reassessed it would be citizen cruelty, and did not thenkill ALL UKR power irreparably.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 10:45 utc | 67

@55

That "strangely at odds" factor is easily understood when you assume that the "humanitarian restrictions" are nothing but a Russian PR figure. The latter is not difficult to notice when you contemplate notorious rocket attacks against residential buildings (Krivoi Rog yesterday; Dnipro, Kremenchuk, Kiev, Kramatorsk, Kharkov etc before) which Russians literally call "retaliatory strikes", and the attacks on electrical grid infrastructure that continued all winter and were praised by Putin and top Russian politicians as, again literally, a way to "freeze the hell out of Khokhols".

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 10:48 utc | 68

I understand this may be off topic, but I can't see anywhere else to post.

An article today in RT:

South Africa knows it may be sanctioned by US – journalist

Pretoria could lose $32.4 billion in export revenue due to its position on Ukraine, a major asset management company predicts

South Africa is aware that it’s on the verge of being punished by the United States for its non-aligned stance in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, Govan Whittles, a senior South African journalist, has told RT.

Whittles said Pretoria has taken seriously a warning by Stanlib Asset Management that the country could lose up to $32.4 billion in export revenue due to its non-aligned position on the Ukraine conflict, “mostly because it follows a similar warning by the South African Reserve Bank” regarding secondary impacts.

The USA is poring on the pressure on South Africa to change it's stance on it's Russian support. Stanlib Asset Management is a Fund Manager set up by one of RSA's largest banks, Standard Bank and (if I remember correctly), in partnership with JB Morgan.

When assessing a threat such as this one, one needs to remember that Fund managers, in essence, make their money by charging their clients a fee for investing their money, e.g. superannuation,capital, etc.

Nelson Mandela once replied to a question on why he was playing favourites to America's rivals like Castro, Gadaffi, and Arafat:

“One of the mistakes which some political analysts make is to think their enemies should be our enemies,” he said which was met by applause. “Our attitude towards any country is determined by the attitude of that country to our struggle. Yasser Arafat, Colonel Gaddafi [and] Fidel Castro support our struggle to the hilt. There is no reason whatsoever why we should have any hesitation about hailing their commitment to human rights as they’re being demanded in South Africa. They do not support [the anti-apartheid struggle] only in rhetoric; they are placing resources at our disposal for us to win the struggle. That is the position.”

Pretoria views Russia in the same light. It was one of the few countries to support the ANC's struggle against the Afrikaner's Apartheid and majority rule. Pretoria will not abandon its support of Russia.

Expect the pressure through blackmail to increase on RSA and other African nations that refuse to turn on Russia.

Posted by: Menz | Jun 13 2023 10:56 utc | 69

>>> You have your viewpoint and threshold for belief. I have my viewpoint and my belief. It does not matter really - but if you expect to find "evidence" in matters of Secret Intelligence Operations which is going to "convince" you - you will be sadly disappointed but at least be able to live out your days in blissful ignorance......

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 10:36 utc | 62 <<<

What a condescending, nonsensical piece of self-justification. What Norwegian was saying was that FACTS and EVIDENCE are unarguable whereas EVERYTHING ELSE is opinions, supposition, conjecture ... YOURS INCLUDED. I happen to agree. Just show me authentic on-site video of 3am that morning and then we can all stop guessing. Until then, the jury is still out.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 10:57 utc | 70

Russian soldiers seize American Bradleys and German Leopard (VIDEO)

Go to RT to see the video.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:59 utc | 71

This is going to end well:

U.S. Set to Approve Depleted-Uranium Tank Rounds for Ukraine

The Biden administration is expected to provide Ukraine with depleted-uranium rounds following weeks of internal debate about how to equip the Abrams tanks the U.S. is giving to Kyiv, U.S. officials said Monday.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-set-to-approve-depleted-uranium-tank-rounds-for-ukraine-f6d98dcf?mod=hp_lead_pos5

Posted by: aquileia | Jun 13 2023 11:00 utc | 72

@The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 10:57 utc | 70

Exactly so, thank you!

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 11:01 utc | 73

@64

In April-May Ukrainian SOF established foothold on small islands around Oleshki (left bank). Russia tried to bomb them out from there but it was largely unsuccessful due to dense forest cover. A month ago Russians finally celebrated "Khokhols getting flushed" from these island after a controlled release of water from the dam, raising water levels downstream. After Kakhovka dam failure everyone here suddenly forgotten about that success...

Posted by: Sour | Jun 13 2023 11:04 utc | 74

China has a huge vulnerability with its Three Gorges Dam, the destruction of which would result in the same degree of destruction as a nuclear attack.

China needs to make it clear to the malevolent scumbags in the West that an attack on the Three Gorges Dam would be viewed in the same light as a nuclear attack and would result in a nuclear response.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Jun 13 2023 11:17 utc | 75

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:44 utc | 66

Agreed wholeheartedly. I have a problem with Hersh's disingenuousness. He plays too much the detached journo, rather than a keep-the-bastards-honest, truth teller. He claims to be a patriot, but is certainly not acting as a true constitutionalist, ie Truth for The People. Without revealing his sources, there are ways he could source and arrange annonymous evidence for his story. He could maybe convince his source to "leak" publically, or find corroborative evidence. He could testify in secret, under protection. He could stimulate some deeper MSM investigation of his claims. But he just drops verbal grenades then runs for cover. In that way, he's no Assange or Snowden or Ritter. And when asked why this or that, he just says "I don't know". Bullshit. He knows, but refuses to say.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 11:19 utc | 76

Seymour Hersh vs. open sources

This is a claim put forward by Seymour Hersh without evidence.

@Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 9:51 utc | 54

Seymour Hersh is not in the evidence business. He does not look at open sources for evidence. He only reports what his anonymous insider sources in the US administration tell him. If a claim is supported by multiple insider sources, he reports it. He does not have a team to do investigation.

I do not think he even cares if his reporting correlates or can be corroborated by what can be deduced from open sources and databases. Open sources happen to support what Hersh claims. The fact that he is independent of any open source intelligence work makes his case stronger.

Aircraft and Vessels in Seymour Hersh's Nord Stream Story - Andersson Erik, May 22, 2023

A summary of the information given below is that Seymour Hersh’s story survives scrutiny based on “open source” information about ship and aircraft movements. Of course it can’t be “proven” (using open source only), that the Alta mine hunter was used to place the bombs, or the P8-A “Poseidon” aircraft was used to trigger them or that USS Paul Ignatius was involved in cleaning the site from unexploded bombs. But we do see in the open sources that all of these vessel types were actually in the right place and the right time to carry out the roles ascribed to them by Seymour Hersh. His story stands this test, and reports of his story being “debunked” by open source information are greatly exaggerated.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 13 2023 11:23 utc | 77

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Jun 13 2023 11:17 utc | 75

Off topic, but whatever ...

China has a huge vulnerability with its Three Gorges Dam, the destruction of which

The kind of weapon that can destroy the three gorges dam has not been invented yet.

The kind of attack that might destroy it would lead to the nuclear annihilation of the West.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 13 2023 11:26 utc | 78

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 10:57 utc | 70

You clearly cannot read.

I have "my belief" - he has "his belief"

YOU imply " I must believe what he believes"

I find your Gleichschaltungsneigung irreführend

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 11:28 utc | 79

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Jun 13 2023 11:17 utc | 75

Off topic, but whatever ...

China has a huge vulnerability with its Three Gorges Dam, the destruction of which

The kind of weapon that can destroy the three gorges dam has not been invented yet.

The kind of attack that might destroy it would lead to the nuclear annihilation of the West.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 13 2023 11:30 utc | 80

Seymour Hersh is an American, so who is going to believe whatever he says? Only those in the so-called West.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 11:33 utc | 81

Well, I just hope it wasn't us or one of our missiles.

There are precedents but precedents are not proof.

1. The bombing of the Tabqa dam.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/20/us/airstrike-us-isis-dam.html

And the background:-

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/civilian-deaths-war-isis.html

This indicates a conflict, or lack of coordination, between elements of the Western forces engaged.

We talk of "The West", or "The UK" or "The US" as if the policies followed were deliberate policies adhered to by all. This was not the case in Syria and is, I believe, even less the case with Western actions in the Ukrainian war or the actions of Western national actors in that war.

Rather, we are looking faction fights within the various governments. Those factions acting independently or in opposition to each other. In the US, it is popularly assumed that there is a "CIA faction" and a "Pentagon faction", those factions with different goals and some independence of action. That is assumption but it is clear that there is a faction within the US that wishes to see the war fought to victory for the West, and another faction that would prefer to see the US focusing more on China.

Possibly another split in Germany. A series of high ranking Generals have openly declared their reservations about the war while the bulk of the politicians are still resolute in pursuing it.

Maybe also in the UK. General Lord Richards, a very senior General, expressed doubts about the war early on and it's probable those doubts are shared by other senior figures. That, again, not in accordance with the almost unanimous hard-line views on the war expressed by our UK politicians.

Faction disputes at the operational level should not be ruled out. It was not necessary for President Biden or Prime Minister Sunak to issue the order "Destroy that dam" for the dam to be attacked. One of other of the factions could well have taken the action independently, as we saw with the Tabqa dam.

2. The much more serious matter of the shelling of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant. This was confirmed by Ukrainian and US media sources to be shelling by the Kiev forces. There is little doubt but that HIMAR's were used, which are not used by the Russians. Some Ukrainian sources indicate that HIMAR's cannot normally be used by the Ukrainian forces without US permission, and that in fact US ISR assistance is usually given when targeting.

We are therefore looking at the shelling of a nuclear power plant using Western weapons and probably with Western permission or assistance. It is possible that the Ukrainian bombing or mining of civilian areas in the Donbass and elsewhere is also carried out with Western permission or assistance.

Precedent is not proof. But the precedents instanced above show that for the West, or for factions within the West, this is a no holds barred war and therefore the possibility mentioned in the article cannot be ruled out.

Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 13 2023 11:33 utc | 82

The UK has done some prior mission planning with some effect.

The attack on the Moskva is one of them. The unmanned remotely controlled assault boats is another. One set to Crimea, another set to attack a Russian naval ship guarding a pipeline near Russia. The Brits are still proud of their 617 RAF squadron delivering the 'Dambusters' and Tall Boys on U-Boot pens in France. I'll be visiting one in Marseille this week.

Supplying ways and means is very plausible.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 13 2023 11:35 utc | 83

NEw York is just 10m above the sea level, so how about a tsunami? Of course, a man made one...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 11:36 utc | 84

I can't be sure, but I doubt Storm Shadow warhead is large enough to do this. We refer to the two stages as the Augmenting Charge (the large shaped/Monroe charge) and the Follow-Thru-Bomb (FTB). This configuration, which my employer considered but rejected in the 1990s in favor of more traditional kinetic penetrators, was designed for penetration of horizontal slab, cut and cover bunkers which were a common target type at that time, both in the Middle East where we were fighting and in many other places. If you can get inside these cut and cover bunkers, it doesn't take a great deal of high explosive to create devastating effects with overpressure from shock and gas pressure since these are confined spaces. It's not what I'd pick for demolition of a large structure.

You waste a lot of energy with the Augmenting Charge producing a hole and damaged area with the external burst (which must be at a specific standoff distance in order for the jet to form coherently). The follow through bomb, which would do much of the structural damage isn't very big since so much of the warhead weight goes into the AC.

A traditional, kinetic penetrator, say AUP-3M, would be better since all the weight including high explosive could be used at detonation within the structure.

For some reason, the Europeans, particuarly the Brits, were enamored with the BROACH (AC/FTB) configuration over traditional kinetic penetrators like AUP-3M, BLU-109, etc. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

Posted by: armchairanalyst | Jun 13 2023 11:37 utc | 85

These things strike me as pertinent:

Any aerial-launched missile (ie, a StormShadow, Buk, Grad, S300) into the Karkova Dam would have either been radar tracked, or AD-defended, or videod by Russia.

And surface vessel or SF personel setting and blowing it would have been spotted and/or dispatched with by guards.

If the water massively exploded downstream in one powerful wave front, that would indicate a momentary explosive release. But if it was a more gradual erosive collapse over hours, then structural degradation might be indicated. What did the immediately downstream residents report?

Why would Russia *not release* video they have of that area during those hours. It makes no sense not to.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 11:39 utc | 86

Remember the words, "Why do we need such a world if there is no Russia there?”

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 11:39 utc | 87

In other words, neither Ukraine, or even Britain have to be there...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 11:43 utc | 88

Or, Denmark, France, Spain, Holland, Belgium...etc

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 11:44 utc | 89

Fogh Rasmussen was not a very smart person before. And now he completely fell into doctrinaire dementia. In an interview with The Guardian, he said that even if Banderokraina does not receive an invitation to NATO in Vilnius, the countries of the Alliance will be able to send their troops there.

Well, the population of these countries was asked? Which of them wants war with Russia? You want hypersonic strikes on Europe, right? And what does Uncle Sam think about this? It will also affect him...
- Dmitry Medvedev June 8

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 11:47 utc | 90

The seismic signal from the Bukovina seismic station in Romania, ~620 km away seems to me to tell a story of an initial hard underground explosion followed by gradual collapse and heavy water outflow. Speculative? Yes.

I agree that any missile should have been detected by radar or photography/video.

So my guess would be the dam was undermined by explosives and detonated remotely.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 11:51 utc | 91

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 10:36 utc | 61

I don't know about Norway (except that it is a member of nato and is submitted to the yankees), but Biden confessed/admitted beforehand the destruction of the pipeline.

By the way, there is not such thing as "international law". It is politically naive to think such a thing exists.

Posted by: Quo Vadis | Jun 13 2023 11:56 utc | 92

From the last thread. to this thread.
Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Jun 12 2023 16:24 utc | 89
what can Russia threaten the west with ..?

<=I worry: a in-one-go worldwide strike against LGN facilities (docks, ships, production and refinery) would make EU dependent on Russian Energy and set back much of the western economy?

Many here believe <=unless the secret use of state functions (propaganda, diplomancy, intelligence, and military powers), by independent, privately-owned, third-parties <=is shut down; no one anywhere, no matter their victory, will ever achieve any significant lasting gain.

Non-elected private third-party elites make or direct all state decisions and direct most actions. Citizens everywhere have been separated from the politics that govern them.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 12 2023 19:38 utc | 198
The potential gains from plundering Russia are huge

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jun 12 2023 20:00 utc | 211
No matter what .. it always gets blamed on Russia.

Regarding the published terms for a settlement with Russia Posted in a link by: Powerandpeople | Jun 12 2023 20:08 utc | 216 (https://www.lauriemeadows.info/conflict_security/Treaties_of%20_Settlement-Ukraine.html#Russias_Terms_for_Settlement) <=Without private third-party signatures on agreements and treaties, nothing lasting will likely come of negotiation. Governments are no longer in control.

Posted by: jonboinAR | Jun 13 2023 0:03 utc | 316
I fear we're all in mortal danger.<=well said.

Posted by: Spinworthy | Jun 13 2023 0:57 utc | 331
Third party owned governments execute "a monopolistic {pillage everyone and everything} business .." they use "full-spectrum death [and] destruction" capabilities of the nation state to accomplish their private third-party goals.

Posted by: snake | Jun 13 2023 11:59 utc | 93

So, anyone, any country thinking of destroying Russia should think twice, or more than that. Anyone thinking of the success of the Ukr 'counteroffensive' should also think more than twice. All the countries, who supply weapons with the thinking of destroying Russia should worry, really worry.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 12:00 utc | 94

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2023 11:28 utc | 79

Rubbish, it is YOU who cannot read.
* Norwegian quite clearly said that ANY belief does not equate with evidence.
* YOU then quite clearly said "it doesn't matter because secret intel to prove it will never come". (There's the condescension).
* I quite clearly said that without solid evidence, ALL words are speculation.
* I and Norwegian quite clearly DID NOT SAY you had to believe mine nor his belief -- because I don't believe anyone's beliefs or even have fixed beliefs of my own. Unlike you, my mind is NOT made up ... because I have no way of TRULY KNOWING.
* YOU are obviously attached to your own beliefs more so than any search for real truths. (There's the self-justification). That makes you a bigot, in my books.

Over and out, you loony.

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 12:01 utc | 95

@Quo Vadis | Jun 13 2023 11:56 utc | 92

By the way, there is not such thing as "international law". It is politically naive to think such a thing exists.

https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/international-law-and-justice

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 13 2023 12:01 utc | 96

During the past day, the AFU units continued attempts to conduct offensive operations in the South Donetsk direction, as well as in the area of the city of Artemovsk.

On the Vremyevsky salient, the Kiev regime launched units hastily formed from the remnants of the military brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which had previously suffered heavy losses, into the offensive.

In the area of the settlement of Makarovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, three attacks of Ukrainian units reinforced with tanks and armored fighting vehicles were repelled during the past day.

All attacks were repelled by courageous and decisive actions of the units of the Vostok group of forces, air strikes and artillery fire. Of the ten APU armored personnel carriers involved in the attacks, eight were destroyed.

In the area of the settlement of Rovnopol of the Donetsk People's Republic, two enemy attacks were successfully repelled during the day. Two Ukrainian tanks and three armored fighting vehicles were hit.

In the area of the settlement of Prechistovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, during the repulse of the attack, most of the personnel of the company tactical group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and four infantry fighting vehicles were destroyed.

The total enemy losses during the day in these areas amounted to up to 275 Ukrainian servicemen, four tanks, fifteen armored combat vehicles, eight cars, as well as the Msta-B howitzer.

South of the city of Artemovsk of the Donetsk People's Republic, the active actions of the "Southern" group of troops during the past day successfully repelled two enemy attacks in the direction of the settlement of Kleshcheyevka of the Donetsk People's Republic.

The enemy's intrusion into our defense is not allowed.

During the fighting, up to 350 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored combat vehicles, as well as six cars were destroyed.

Posted by: Boong | Jun 13 2023 12:10 utc | 97

The Russian Baltic Fleet and the Pacific Fleet is still out there, but no 'western' MSM writes about that. Officially, those fleets are on drill until the 15th June. But, will they ever stop the drills? The Pacific Fleet is doing those drills with the Chinese Fleet.

By the way, people have forgotten that there is North Korea too, which has a very clear nuclear program.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2023 12:17 utc | 98

As we know the AFU had a made a few passes with HIMARS or whatever just to see if it would give. So there you have the prior attempts, and of course they bragged about. Who benefits? Certain not the RF forces...The only real benefit that I can see is simply to have the potential for massive flooding removed. Oh and messing with Russian controlled assets like the canal and the NPP.

Funny thing though, payback is often served late, and cold. So you want to have a postage stamp party after the Crimean bridge gets hit? Then their HQ gets a helping of kaliber. Wanna brag about killing Russians wherever they may be and young ladies as well? Then your HQ gets reamed out by an special instrument. Speaking of which where is that Budanov guy? Aint heard from him for weeks....

Posted by: Chevrus | Jun 13 2023 12:20 utc | 99

Over and out, you loony.
Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 13 2023 12:01 utc | 94
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Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

A kind request by our host -b

BTW, Out is not the same as Over, which solicits a response. You may have skipped NavCom training.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jun 13 2023 12:22 utc | 100