It seems like everyone wants to sweep this under the rug and not pay too much attention to it, but why would Lukashenko lie about it? Seems to be true. And if it is true, it is an absolute bombshell. Putin is indeed a traitor, or the very least, he was back in March 2022. Things might have changed since then (w can only hope so).
Posted by: shаdоwbаnned | Jun 14 2023 21:23 utc | 197
###############
It amuses me to no end that you believe Lukashenko and not Putin. An interesting dissonance, as though other than supporting your narrative, you have any real insight into either man to consider one more credible than the other, or that your translations are accurate.
I don’t know if you’re naive or silly, or something else. Part of any negotiation is rhetoric. Expecting no lies, no misrepresentations, and only angelic behavior is really a childlike perspective on the very adult world of foreign policy.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 14 2023 21:33 utc | 204

I could teach a 5 year old to trade the 10 year treasury without a losing trade.
Posted by: Derek Henry | Jun 14 2023 15:11 utc | 43
now that’s just got to be wrong.
if it were that easy to make money everyone would be doing it.
if everyone were doing it then it wouldn’t work.
your statement has all the hallmarks of a ‘perpetual motion machine’ salespitch: i.e. a scam.

Posted by: abrogard | Jun 14 2023 21:35 utc | 206

One of the more prolific trolls made it past Zet’s filter by slightly altering his handle with a space character.
Now shadowbinned once again.
One day, filters will be smart enough to spot repetitive trolls like those b listed in his article and pre-block them. Let the AI wars begin.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Jun 14 2023 21:35 utc | 208

@ abrogard | Jun 14 2023 20:52 utc | 182
re: shаdоwbаnnеd’s: try to get a detailed map of the fighting in Ukraine on your office wall. . .Yep. Great stuff.
It’s not primarily a “map” war, it’s principally (until recently) an indirect fire war, with attrition on both sides. And how about Afghanistan, did you have that map up on your office wall for twenty years?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 14 2023 21:42 utc | 210

Posted by: spare_truth | Jun 14 2023 21:26 utc | 199

The UKR Industry is still today on-going very well producing (never checked about that fact?).

Not on the ground there so I cannot say with certainty, but for sure:
1. The Azovstal steel plants in Artemosvk and Mariupol were destroyed and now in Russian hands aren’t producing anything, and when they do it will be Russian. Same with the famous “sparkling wine”!
2. Just today I read that the only sector of the Ukrainian economy showing any growth in 2023 is the information sector, probably because it can be done remotely from Poland, Lithuania, or Western Ukraine. The rest is contracting in 2023.
I doubt there is much being “produced” in the remainder of Ukraine still under Zelensky’s putative rule, other than rent-extraction courtesy of western bailout money.
And if the ag fields are mined, then that cuts both ways. Mines don’t discriminate based on who steps on them. They’ll blast the legs off of Western corporate whoremongers with the same grim efficiency as they would Russians, Africans, or Martians.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 14 2023 21:49 utc | 212

ostro | Jun 14 2023 20:49 utc | 179–
Good observation that needs a small modification: Russia’s MIC is owned by Russians–they’re state-owned public utilities, with very few exceptions. And the same is true for the vast majority of Russia’s Strategic Industries, a fact I repeat often that seems to go in one ear and out most other ears. As I reported back at the start of the year once some MIC corps had posted their numbers and given their shareholder reports, there was no mentionable expansion going to be done; just the lengthening of the order backlog which was being counted as sales for the balance sheet thus artificially and likely illegally making earnings seem more than actual. Quality issues have existed since the early 1950s and worsened as consolidation occurred. The situation is far worse than commercial planned obsolescence since lives are reliant on continual proper product performance. The mass produced P-series airplanes before and during WW2 were so superior to today’s crap that today’s crap is just that-CRAP. The TinCan my step-Grandfather captained in the Pacific was made in 1/10 the time as today’s DDGs at an even smaller fraction of the cost. As many have said, the Outlaw US Empire’s MIC is a profit and graft industry, not a national defense industry. And weapons are supposed to be made/procured according to a nation’s war fighting doctrine.
I’ll give one example of the gross mismatch evidenced by that last sentence–Mobile AD systems. NATO doctrine is it MUST have control of the airspace to properly conduct its operations with minimal losses–BUT–it lacks the systems required to make that doctrine reality–AND that’s not something new. Instead, the Big-Name System continues to be the Patriot, which is not at all mobile and can’t shoot down much of anything, the latter fact being known for 30 years!!!!!
I have no words to express just how astonishing that is–incredible just isn’t good enough.
So, what to make of the evidence presented so far?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2023 21:53 utc | 214

SABOTEURS BURNED NATO EQUIPMENT IN LATVIA
While military equipment of NATO countries is burning in Ukrainian steppes, unknown gunmen reportedly set fire to a military fuel tanker in Latvia. The incident took place on June 14 in the town of Salaspils located 18 kilometers from the capital of the country Riga.
Military equipment was transported on a truck trailer when it caught fire. According to eyewitnesses, two explosions were heard before the fire.
A representative of the Latvian Defense Ministry claimed that the tanker was traveling from Finland, where the NATO exercises were held, and was heading to Lithuania.
COURTESY SOUTH FRONT: https://southfront.org/in-video-saboteurs-burned-nato-equipment-in-latvia-reports/

Posted by: HERMIUS | Jun 14 2023 21:54 utc | 216

I think we are really preparing to sent NATO military to Ukraine. But not to help Ukraine. We’ll do it to help Russia. We’ll do it to defeat the Nazis that abused our trust and blew up Nordstream. NATO will pretend that they share the goals of Russia’s SMO… after all, Russians can scarcely object to NATO helping Russia in achieving those goals. Can they?
That may not be the result the West hoped for when it started the war, but the West will take whatever it can get at this time. And that will be occupation zones like in Germany after WW2. A Russian one because that cannot be helped. A Polish zone. A Romanian one. A Hungarian one, to bring Hungary on board. And of course a large American one (that includes Odessa so that the US can finally get a Black Sea port). Forget about Biden mulling to create an Israel in Ukraine. It’s going to be West Germany and East Germany all over again. Maybe it’s going to be another Syria – we didn’t want Russia to mess up our plans in Syria but we could not keep Russia out. After all, Russia was there to fight ISIS. Which they did sucessfully. Now NATO is banking on the same thing happening in Ukraine – with reversed roles.
That is why we’ve started blaming the Nordstream sabotage on Ukraine. This is not a prelude to dropping our support for Ukraine. It’s a prerequisite for switching sides. Well, for pretending to switch sides.
The astroturfing comments regarding money well spent on Ukraine will fade away. To be replaced with support for defeating the criminals who blew up NS2.

Posted by: Martina | Jun 14 2023 21:55 utc | 218

Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 14 2023 18:54 utc | 142
A truly excellent comment.
I do not think you are understating the English dislike for Russians, or not from my anecdotal experience.
I was shocked to hear from a friend, probably my very best friend, the sort of anti Russian stuff, grown in his English childhood, that even spouted the Russians are the Asiatic horde stuff.
This guy is progressive, even a socialist but it shocked me. Delving further it was clear to me that his family in WWII would have preferred to fight Russia than Germany.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 14 2023 21:58 utc | 220

I thought the topic was about astroturfing support for the Ukraine, not the definition of “invasion”, or the many other items being discussed.
But seriously nobody finds it odd that citizens of Italy, Netherlands, Romania, Germany, and France are tweeting in English?
I clicked the more examples link to see if any of the other examples were in the native tongue of the land the citizens were from and saw not a single other related tweet.
Nobody else finds this odd?

Posted by: David F | Jun 14 2023 22:01 utc | 222

Been away for a few days (sunny Devon for the record). All good fun, until it comes to the journey home; the departure platform for the train I was expecting to get was changed three times in less than 10 minutes (the Black Hole of Exeter St Davids). The train eventually turned up some 20 minutes late, got later and later on the journey to my home station in Bristol, where we sat outside waiting for an arrival platform for 10 minutes more… the f*cking station has got 15 platforms, why are they all full at 9.20pm at night?
Anyway, what has this got to do with b’s topic? Well, this is Britain, a nation that our great and good believe can mobilise itself to take on the productive manufacturing power of Russia. Not a chance! Russia, you’ve got nothing to fear from us, we couldn’t organise a hangover in a brewery, a slapstick show in a custard pie factory.
So all those tweets and posts calling for this, that, and the other, in terms of physical aid to Ukraine; just forget it, it ain’t going to happen.

Posted by: West of England Andy | Jun 14 2023 22:03 utc | 224

Another exchange from Putin’s meeting with war correspondents (translation mine—didn’t like the official one):

Pegov: Vladimir Vladimirovich, first question. In all times it has been known that cadres decide everything, especially in the army, especially during wartime.
Putin: Stalin said this, right?
Pegov: Yes, I think.
The existing bureaucratic system is, unfortunately, set up in such a way that those who are serving well on parquet floors [as opposed to trenches — S], who know how to suck up to their superiors at the right time are the ones who are advancing. But at the frontlines, new Rokossovskiys are being born now, new talented guys. By the way, Donbass commanders from Somali, OBTF Kaskad, Sparta say hi to you, but I’m not talking just about them.
There really are many talented people now, audacious in the best sense of the word, but it’s as if the system won’t let them advance. How can this issue be solved, so that new “gems” of our military affairs, the art of war, appear? And they do exist, belive me.
…
Putin: It’s not a mere question, it’s a call to action.
Regarding the staffing policy, it’s a very important question. Before the SMO started, of course, there was a great number of “parquet” people, like in any government agency. As you know, before the pandemic started, we had one thing, and when the pandemic started, people appeared who can be compared to servicemen, although they are civilians. As we know, these people bravely went into those dangerous zones, not even understanding how it could affect them. Same thing in the military: the SMO began, and it quickly became clear that “parquet” generals—and there are plenty of those in any army in the world in peacetime, everywhere—they are, to put it mildly, ineffective.
And, on the contrary—you are right in this, Semyon Vladimirovich—people appeared who were, sort of, obscure, they weren’t seen or heard before, and it turned out that they are very effective and very much needed. Unfortunately, such people are the first to leave this world, because they do not spare themselves—that’s the problem.
Nevertheless, we definitely must… I hope that this is happening and will continue to happen. We must watch this issue. I’ll tell you why—because our thinking on this is absolutely the same. I completely share this view—completely and utterly. Such people must be sought out, sought out and advanced, educated, promoted to higher ranks, higher positions, trusted more.
…

Say what? But… I thought Russian generals were perfect in every way! Omniscient! Omnipotent! Infallible! That they never make mistakes. That if it seems to you that Russian generals have made a mistake, that just means you’re a moron who does not understand their 50-dimensional chess moves. That Russian generals are like those sexy virgin Greek oracles who have seen all the timelines and chose the best course of action. Hmm… This can only mean one thing: Putin is a concern troll! Guys, quick, add Putin to your Javascript filters! Don’t let him pollute your mind with his evil concern trolling! Who’s this Putin guy, anyway, right? Trust in your Lord and Savior Martyanov and His Prophet Hack!

Posted by: S | Jun 14 2023 22:06 utc | 226

Posted by: shаdоwbаnnеd | Jun 14 2023 13:35 utc | 3
It was a shock to me that the president has absolutely no control over the situation at the front, does not know which territories are under our control and which ones are controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.<<< Why do people assume that VVP must know and/or control every on-ground detail about the SMO? Do they envisage he sits there biting his nails, browsing daily sitreps? Ffs, he's running the whole of Russia! A, he delegates. B, he has advisors who think like him. C, he gets intermittent, and no doubt selective briefings. D, he's got masses of *far more complex geopolitical issues* to deal with than the SMO. Minutae and micro-managing is not ANY President's job. At least he does engage in such meetings to stay informed (... and to guide such reporters for the good of the mission).

Posted by: The Dolphin | Jun 14 2023 22:12 utc | 228

“it was stated outright that such a response or something similar would be met by a “military technical operation,” which is exactly what was performed at the outset on 22 February. The move toward Kiev was clearly a feint, the aim being to mke it clear that Russia wasn’t at all bluffing. That feint almost produced the desired outcome within Ukraine, but the negotiations were killed by the Outlaw US Empire’s diktat.
Don’t try and rewrite history with me!”
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2023 20:33 utc | 173
Sure, you can recite your catechism about how every lurch on the Russian side from February 2022 on was part of some master plan. I don’t care. But when you say that NATO was prepping Ukraine to *attack* Russia — with Stingers and Javelins(??), you look ridiculous.
Here’s an article from Foreign Policy from January 2022 (by the Rand Corporation’s Samuel Charap, naturally) explaining how the weapons the West had supplied Ukraine with would be useless in full-scale war and that the Russian army would quickly overpower Ukraine. Key quote: “In short, the military balance between Russia and Ukraine is so lopsided in Moscow’s favor that any assistance Washington might provide in coming weeks would be largely irrelevant in determining the outcome of a conflict should it begin. Russia’s advantages in capacity, capability, and geography combine to pose insurmountable challenges for Ukrainian forces tasked with defending their country.”
Longer quote:
“Once deterrence fails and a war begins, the Ukrainian armed forces will find themselves in desperate circumstances almost immediately. Ukraine does not have anywhere near enough forces to credibly defend against all the potential avenues of attack, which means it would have to choose between defending a select set of fixed strong points—ceding control of other areas—or maneuvering to engage Russian forces that outnumber them. The line of conflict in the Donbass will be but one of many fronts. The Ukrainian fortifications there may well look like a modern-day Maginot Line: prepared for a frontal attack that may never come and bypassed by the mobile forces of an adversary with more advanced aircraft and more mobile land forces.
Ukraine’s great size means that the land forces operating there will be required to move to cover large areas of rural terrain. Mobile engagements would benefit Russian forces, which are far better trained and equipped to conduct coordinated air and land maneuver warfare than their Ukrainian opponents. The Russian military has repeatedly practiced the use of long-range strike and tactical fires cued by drones as well as other means of reconnaissance, both in training and in combat operations in Syria. Russia’s combat aircraft and strategic air defenses give Moscow many more options to control the air and to strike Ukrainian forces, and most Russian pilots have recent real-world experience in Syria. The Ukrainian military also largely operates legacy Soviet weapons; Russian forces have a deep familiarity with the limitations of these systems and know what tactics to employ to further reduce their effectiveness.
In short, the military balance between Russia and Ukraine is so lopsided in Moscow’s favor that any assistance Washington might provide in coming weeks would be largely irrelevant in determining the outcome of a conflict should it begin. Russia’s advantages in capacity, capability, and geography combine to pose insurmountable challenges for Ukrainian forces tasked with defending their country. The second argument for aid—changing the course of the war—thus does not hold water.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/21/weapons-ukraine-russia-invasion-military/

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 14 2023 22:14 utc | 230

Probably been said before AI artificial idiocy.

Posted by: Inki | Jun 14 2023 22:15 utc | 232

Looks like Neuland and Blinkers and those Anti Christs now want to bring Ukraine into NATO ASAP
Lol freaking lunatics.
Thankfully Turkey, Hungary woulf most likely not ket this happen. But who knows. They could even change the rules just to start WW3 anyway.
Satanists

Posted by: Comandante | Jun 14 2023 22:17 utc | 234

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 14 2023 22:14 utc | 229
“I don’t care. But when you say that NATO was prepping Ukraine to *attack* Russia — with Stingers and Javelins(??), you look ridiculous.”
Ah-hah!! The Ozymandias of Oregon looking ridiculous?, Why, like his namesake, he always thinks his words are straight from god’s lips. Best of health to him, and hopefully some capacity for reflection.

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jun 14 2023 22:25 utc | 236

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 14 2023 22:15 utc | 230
“Substance applies and is sound and you have provided no evidence to refute it.
“
Ok, for me one year doesn’t equal soon. What is your timetable?

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jun 14 2023 22:30 utc | 238

Lemming | Jun 14 2023 15:43 utc | 56

Posted by: Merlin | Jun 14 2023 15:07 utc | 42
“He told me how he disobeyed orders and started dump diesel from airplanes on targets his command wouldn’t let him, like the Swiss and Berlin.”
-> so he was dumping fuel on civilians because his command wouldn’t let him bomb them and that is somehow an heroic deed?

Correct ! A war criminal, and an obvious liar. Where was he flying from that he could afford to dump fuel ?

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Jun 14 2023 22:34 utc | 240

Lemming and Babel-17, about the “liberation” of the Philippines, I’m sure the analogy is not well chosen, and the argument about Babel’s father being a great liberator sounds deluded.
The USA is an imperial power that invaded the Philippines around 1900, not long after the Philippines declared independence. The US faced stiff resistance, and committed numerous atrocities, murders of civilians, torture, rapes. The colonial regime they installed after the war was plain racist. All of this is very well known, numerous sources, studies and books. To portray the Americans as liberators in the Philippines’ historical context is wrong.

Posted by: htyul | Jun 14 2023 22:42 utc | 242

For those in the US,
I turned on the local news tonight, and the lead story is….
The release tonight of the SEC 2024 Football schedule.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Jun 14 2023 22:44 utc | 244

This is amusing.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/06/14/the-ukrainian-marine-corps-amx-10rc-recon-vehicles-didnt-last-long-in-a-frontal-assault-on-russian-defenses/
They finally figured that out.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Jun 14 2023 22:51 utc | 246

@ S | Jun 14 2023 22:06 utc | 225
I bet the Rokossovsky example went down well in Warsaw.
LOL for real.

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 14 2023 23:04 utc | 248

Sorry Mr. Amusing, the game is over.
Your game trial has expired after 3 min. of no-response ..
We’ll send You an e-Mail with 5$ credit for the next trial to get UKR-President tonight ..

Posted by: spare_truth | Jun 14 2023 23:12 utc | 250

Been waiting for the asshole at 35 and 37 to show up so I can add him to my blocklist. Success!

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 14 2023 23:32 utc | 252

229.
Let me be more precise, Ukraine was ‘baiting Russia to attack by shelling civilians in escalating patterns of atrocity’.
The overdose of ATGM was because the Maerican military planners in their utter genius thought Russia would quickly occupy Ukraine where these weapons would be extremely useful for guerilla warfare.
Just because NATO miscalculated Russian responses, detecting a theme here – Ukraine WAS building up forces, not merely armed with small arms as you assert, to invade the Donbass – doesn’t mean that you get to deny Ukraine was being prepped to attack the separatist regions, because they most obviously were, by those behind the 2014 putsch. Or you can deny, but this has no credibility. What’s wrong? Suddenly this war being seen as a disastrous liability?
Now that the dipshits in the West who long planned this war are getting the most epic case of blowback in human history suddenly come the weasels to try to cast aspersions and blame on others? Scandalous. The United States of Maerica owns this conflict, cowardly quivering behind their Slavic cats paw, and history will record it if history still indeed stands at the end. The shining city on the hill, indeed.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 14 2023 23:35 utc | 254

As a glorious member of the Ukrainian Hitler Youth, Canada Division, let me tell you the best money ever spent was the funds used to kill as many young Ukrainian men as possible. Of course, without the skim for our selfless American compatriots engorging themselves on the profits from these needless and senseless deaths, we would have to stay at home and not murder our Russian speaking neighbors.
So please send more money, rivers of blood and stupidity, are so sick.

Posted by: kupkee | Jun 14 2023 23:46 utc | 256

Let me be more precise, Ukraine was ‘baiting Russia to attack by shelling civilians in escalating patterns of atrocity’.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 14 2023 23:35 utc | 253
I’ll post this as often as necessary.
Total conflict-related civilian deaths from 2014 to 2021, Donbass (both sides)
2014 2,084
2015 955
2016 112
2017 117
2018 58
2019 27
2020 26
2021 25
https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/74154/year-by-year-breakdown-of-deaths-in-the-donbas-attributed-to-military-operations, quoting the UNHCR

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 14 2023 23:49 utc | 258

Russia can’t sell gas, win for russia’s enemies. Fairly simple, I think.
Posted by: Membrum Virile | Jun 14 2023 22:00 utc | 220
Russia can, and does, still sell gas. Now they sell more LNG. Russia is making more profit than before.
But that’s beside the point, isn’t it? You completely avoided addressing the point of my post. Did I really express it that poorly? Or is there some other reason for this?
Since my post seems too difficult for you to grasp: It has nothing to do with the destruction of the pipeline. The pipeline was destroyed for the reason you mentioned. That does not explain why the likely perpetrators (US with at least some NATO allies) suddenly decide to blame it on Ukraine. Now they even name Zalushny as the likely culprit.
They (and before you ask again who I am talking about: the CIA) even claim they warned their allies about the Ukrainian plans – plans which they opposed. Of course. So they had all this information from the very beginning, and only now figure out who destroyed the pipeline? Really? Why wait until Ukraine is obviously losing despite evrything NATO tried?
At the very least, NATO is about to cut Ukraine loose. But they (=NATO members) invested a lot of money and material in their Ukraine adventure, tied themselves tightly to Ukraine politically. So tightly, that Ukraine’s defeat will be considered a NATO defeat – and I outlined how they might try to get out of this corner they find themselves in.
If NATO can compel Russia to go along with their plan? No idea.

Posted by: Martina | Jun 15 2023 0:00 utc | 260

Another asshat I will be ignoring, Membrum Virile, along with S and his BS about “supporting Russia”.
Of course there are incompetent generals in Russia, just as they are in every army, as Putin said. No one ever said otherwise, neither Martyanov nor me.
What we said is that historically the Russian General Staff is the most well-trained and competent General Staff as compared with most of the rest in the world, with the possible exception of the Germans.
Certainly compared to the clowns we see publicly commenting from the Pentagon, both retired and active, they are better. Their doctrine is better, their education is better.
As Martyanov says, where are the US “victories” against peer militaries? There are none for over half a century – and WWII was mostly won by Russia, despite all the arguments over the Lend-Lease aid provided by the US to Russia. There are no such wins because the US has never fought a peer military. The Russians did in WWII and they have not forgotten the lessons learned then, unlike the US which has forgotten stuff they knew as late as the 1980’s.
The rest of this thread is a waste of my time. No interesting information provided. At least no one is talking about Air Defender 23 after Scott Ritter took apart that bullshit on The Duran yesterday, as I noted in the last thread.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 15 2023 0:03 utc | 262

“It is too early to talk about the failure of the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a significant part of the reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is not yet involved in active operations.”
Russian forces need to do a lot better. Ukraine has so much more reserves.

Posted by: MiniMO | Jun 15 2023 0:10 utc | 264

Why do Americans think that aliens would choose to land only in US?
LOL
Posted by: scepticalSOB | Jun 14 2023 22:38 utc | 240
##################
The US is ground zero for space-oriented hoaxes. And, of course, imperial narcissism.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 15 2023 0:27 utc | 266

@shаdоwbаnned | Jun 14 2023 21:23 utc | 197
That wiki’ link was interesting, though it always helps if one has some historical background of how to filter the “info”. “…which sentenced Mikhail Tukhachevsky and other high-ranking Soviet officers to death on Joseph Stalin’s order.” The tacit thesis here and of many on the “left” and of Krushchev, Medvedev, et al, was the sadistic persecution of innocent people by an insane dictator. The trials were conducted by a judicial system, and although Stalin was the Party leader and had influence on that system, he did not run it. Stalin alone could not have initiated the prosecutions, the central leadership did: Molotov, Kaganovitch, Zhdanov, Voroshilov, and Manuilsky. When one considers the records of these men, their years of heroic revolutionary work and their determined struggle for socialist industrialization, it is clear that, mistaken or not, they must have believed they were acting in the face of a threat to socialism. They were all responsible and serious men, not men who would persecute for the sake of persecution or who would lightly endorse executions. Nevertheless, despite the “rehabilitations” granted by Krushchev and Gorbachev, the trials and recently released evidence (see New Evidence of Trotsky’s Conspiracy, The Murder of Sergei Kirov, Yezhov vs Stalin, all by Grover Furr) points to Trotsky and Tukhachevsky being guilty, as charged. One also has to remember the despicable role that Yezhov played. Many innocent party members died because of his sabotage. Lenin experienced the repression directed against the first socialist state. The one Stalin faced was much wider and better organized. If the party didn’t deal with saboteurs properly then there’s no way it could have waged a successful fight against the nazis. Only a basically sound society could have achieved such a feat, a feat which required national cooperation, initiative and morale.
As regards Lukashenko’s comment about a lease deal – I think we both share healthy skepticism about Putin and he’s definitely not Stalin! I would trust my working class instincts and give the nod to the collective farm manager before Putin. I would trust Zyuganov before Putin, but some have said he’s a bit revisionist, too…it’s difficult to get much Russian political info’, here in the US.

Posted by: zeke2u | Jun 15 2023 0:35 utc | 268

No pontoon bridges for you!
The ground is not so good.
MEANWHILE …
IAEA Director General Statement on Situation in Ukraine

At the current height of the reservoir by the ZTPP, the water pumps continue to be operable. At the moment, however, they are not continuously being operated as both the ZTPP channel and the large cooling pond near the ZNPP are full, holding sufficient water reserves for several months of cooling requirements.

Safety at Europe’s largest nuclear plant ensured

“We can say with high confidence that the nuclear safety of the Zaporozh* Nuclear Power Plant will be maintained in full,” [Rosenergoatom adviser Renat Karchaa] told the Rossiya-24 TV channel. He added that a mobile pumping station was being delivered from a nuclear plant in Smolensk to help cool the reactors if necessary.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 15 2023 0:38 utc | 270

“quoting the UNHCR
Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 14 2023 23:49 utc | 257
##############
Thank you for using an unimpeachable and credible source like the UNHCR. /s”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 15 2023 0:29 utc | 266
Feel free to post whatever source you choose to prove that “Ukraine was ‘baiting Russia to attack by shelling civilians in escalating patterns of atrocity’.”

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 15 2023 0:56 utc | 272

“The conclusion is contradicted by reality on the ground.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 15 2023 0:46 utc | 269
What reality would that be? The reality of Stingers and Javelins?

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 15 2023 1:00 utc | 274

Posted by: zinjanthropus | Jun 14 2023 23:34 utc | 252

Incidentally, the failure of the so-called “feint,” which counting the armored columns involved nearly a third of the invading force,

You omit a key qualifier in order to distort the truth: *nearly a third of the tiny initial invading force*
You realise that the Russian withdrawal came during the peace talks Zelensky agreed to, do you? Explain that to me ?

transformed Zelensky from an obscure failing politician into a global rock star, galvanized public opinion in Europe and the United States and Europe against Russia,

You’re confused. It’s Hollywood that transformed Zelensky. Holleywood in conjunction with it’s handlers in the CIA and State Department.

and convinced people that the Ukrainians could win, or at least survive, which few had believed before the invasion started.

There are always fools aplenty who’ll believe anything broadcast over the BBC. This is no feat.

And it was unnecessary, since if the Russians had attacked solely in the East the Ukrainians wouldn’t have dared strip Kiev of its defenses,

The concentration of defenses around Kiev leaves less defended other areas which really matter. Putin truly is a master strategist.

So from every point of view, the “feint” was a disaster for Russia.

On the contrary, just from a quick look at the map, the ‘feint’ and especially Zelensky’s ‘feint’ of peace talks has turned out to be terminal disaster for Ukraine.
Contrast that with if Zelensky had just followed through with the peace discussions and not assassinated his own negotiator and let Russia have the eastern regions.
You realise Ukraine is a thing of the past, right? It’s “past tense”. History. Never coming back.
Russia, on the other hand, has just:
– grown by *at least* 20% of Ukraine,
– added population and industrial, agricultural and strategic capacity (just look on the map!) and pretty much
– rearranged the global energy economy to it’s own advantage …
– decoupled it’s economic dependence on the West even further
– flipped the poker table on whatever long term plans NATO were banking on in Ukraine, including state and resource capture, bioweapons research, etc …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 15 2023 1:08 utc | 276

There’s a lot of great comments and links, but also some petty, name-calling posts going on at the bar.
There were non competent commanders from platoon right up to General Staff. A lot of very competent leaders were also lost in this ongoing tragedy.
The thing that really bothers the NAFO trolls is that Russia is winning, and winning with both hands tied behind her back.
On the economic front, battlefield and in the informational space.
So there!

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 15 2023 1:15 utc | 278

Some videos for today.
Another good RT report from the northern DPR/LPR front:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/lugansk-russian-army-offensive:8
The Pentagon cannot confirm Kiev’s Bradley losses… despite video showing Bradley losses (LOL!):
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/pentagon-ukraine-bradley-losses:3
Russian Ka-52 attack helicopter unleashes guided missile on Kiev regime armored vehicle, completely wiping it out:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/Ka521406:2
Russian artillery team opens fire on the enemy near the Vremevsky Ledge (Zaporozhye front):
https://rutube.ru/video/b2e81d9a41eacbd5c1ca320c211ec9c1/
Russian Lancet destroys another US-supplied M777 howitzer:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-06-13_12-02-56:3
Russian Lancet strikes a Kiev regime T-80 tank:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-06-14_10-27-10:d
Russian Lancets continue taking out the Kiev regime’s anti-aircraft units:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/bQAeZ1GysFrES5LC:d
Russian Tyulpan self-propelled mortar fires on the enemy near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/d6ab94c93ebd4e694050e733e514e68d/

Posted by: Nate | Jun 15 2023 1:17 utc | 280

If Ukraine is taking some much casualties and losing so much equipment and they are still fighting in the gray zone with mobile Russian units, What is going to happen when they reach the real lines of defence with entrenched troops. I am not a military person but this makes no logical sense to me. Somebody has taken leave of their senses. In approximately 9 days Ukraine has lost 30% of its hardware and up to 10000 casualties. If this continues for a month Ukraine will lose almost all its hardware and over 40000 casualties without much progress. With each passing day Ukraine’s punch gets weaker and weaker as it loses men and machines that it cannot replace. Russia is losing men and machines but at a much lower rate and they are able to be replaced. Only a crazy person do the same thing the same way everytime and expect a different result. (Peace)

Posted by: Curious Passerby | Jun 15 2023 1:31 utc | 282

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2023 20:36 utc | 175
The leadership of the west has lacked serious people for a long time. They don’t plan so much as conceptualize. Or, they have a plan A based entirely on best case scenarios and nothing beyond that.
I think it’s a generational thing at this point that has become ossified. Political leadership sees a huge military budget but doesn’t have the curiosity or will to understand it from a technical perspective. They simply believe that the US is undefeatable because. If there’s a “reason” it’s wholly ideological and flimsy. They simply aren’t serious enough to contemplate whether they could, much less should, attempt to supply a high intensity proxy conflict.
I don’t disagree with Hudson often, but I think on the particulars of this economic war he’s only partly right. Yes, Europe was a prime target but the greater idea was to break up Russia so that the US at least proxy controlled Russian resource supply to Europe. I assume it ties into the “new Europe” doctrine of the 2000’s. Europe can stay economically viable, but not independent. The US has never said boo about Russian gas to Europe through Ukraine or Poland, it was only against direct delivery. The Ukrainization of Russia was the plan (or return Russia to the 90’s).
They did believe they could either scare or defeat Russia in arms if need be. Partly because they missed Putin reforming and rebuilding the Russian military. Partly because they believe US military power omnipotent, not for any good reason but simply because.
Some define foreign policy realism as understanding that other nations have interests. I would add that realism also includes understanding your own weaknesses. The US has no realists. And they really believe that there’s a switch to flip and they can start building a liberty ship a day. There’s no contextual understanding, only individual issues of the moment. So there’s no understanding that financialization and offshoring impacts military industry.
They are not serious people. And serious people don’t make it to the top because they speak uncomfortable truths or ask hard questions.

Posted by: Lex | Jun 15 2023 1:37 utc | 284

Posted by: Curious Passerby | Jun 15 2023 1:31 utc | 280
Since when have Zelensky’s minions shown any organized, strategic plan?
Militarily they’ve accomplished exactly one success, and that was the Kharkhiv counter-offensive last fall. Everything else has been either defense or simply occupying territory the Russians abandoned without a fight.
They’re prone to favoring “stunts” and madcap capers like sending a few units into border areas in Russian uniforms to win the Twitter news cycle, or hobbyist drone attacks that look embarrassing but accomplish nothing of tactical or strategic value.
They have been stubbornly good at playing defense, but when it comes to taking the initiative, they remind me of the Iran/Iraq war – throw human waves against the guns and hope to overwhelm.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 1:57 utc | 286

Why do you bring up Stingers and Javelins?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 15 2023 1:14 utc | 275
##############
Obviously, a Trump fan who escaped the January 6th dragnet. 😛

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 15 2023 2:03 utc | 288

william at 139
stop picking on cockatoos. they are much smarter than the average msn watcher.
they are very naughty birds but not mindless. brain of a 5 yr old with emotions of a 2 yr old is one way I have heard them described.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 15 2023 2:22 utc | 290

@ Posted by: htyul | Jun 14 2023 22:42 utc | 241
I don’t recognize your handle. Sorry board regulars, this is another episode of me fighting revisionist history.
Yes, the US fought the Filipino freedom movement. That movement was originally against the Spanish colonial rule, which was little changed from the 1500’s and resembled the ruling class method used in Mexico and South America. In fact the islands were under the control of New Spain (Mexico) for hundreds of years.
The freedom movement viewed the US as more of the same, can’t blame them, there was little communication before 1900.
Yes, bad things happen during wars. However, before that war was over, the US had already started to revamp the whole of government and society. Look up the Taft Commission. Forming local, county, state and then a national government. Mandating schooling and technical education. Purchasing over 400,000 acres from the Catholic church (probably the best producing) for redistribution. Forming a civil service to carry out government functions (which ended up 55% Filipino), allowing women to vote, and starting national elections in 1916.
By no coincidence, all the government offices (legislator, executive, court system) borrowed heavily from the US structure.
In 1935 the Commonwealth of the Philippines was formed by vote of both countries. In called for an independent country in 10 years.
After Japan attacked, the Filipino Army fought a guerrilla war, aided by escaped US Army personnel with supplies being provided by submarine or air dropped.
The Japanese were brutal and universally hated in the country. The guerrilla war was successful in controlling many of the smaller islands, however it was the Battle of Leyte Gulf and the US landing force that removed the Japanese from Manila and the larger cities.
To say that the Filipinos of that era didn’t view the US as liberators is a complete farce. The amount of cooperation between the two during the war cannot be underestimated. The suffering of the Filipinos under Japan rule (who considered them sub human) cannot be forgotten.
In 1946, (as mandated in the 1935 law) the US recognized The Philippine independence. They are a charter member of the UN.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Jun 15 2023 2:27 utc | 292

@ Lex | Jun 15 2023 1:37 utc | 282
thanks lex.. i share much of your viewpoint.. i guess my comment has to be directed directly to karlof1 to be included in the conversation, lol…
——-
white house daily press briefing today… these folks are so clued out, it is impossible for any of them to see the light of day..
“QUESTION: Absolutely. Russian parliament today backed the idea of army recruitment of criminals to fight in Ukraine. Let me get your reaction to that? Also, if this is not the very definition of a terrorist state in action, then what is?
MR MILLER: I will just say that we have seen Russia continue to have to take very drastic measures after suffering tremendous losses on the battlefield, both forces – both of human costs and materiel. They continue to send young Russians – in some cases, not even young Russians anymore – into a meat grinder of their own making, which – the way the Secretary put it a couple of weeks ago. And the way to end this, of course, would be for President Putin to end the war.”

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 2:36 utc | 294

But as of what did happen – in Berlin´s mind it was either becoming Greece the pariah from 2010 or be what it is now.

Sounds more like a failure of imagination. The EU without Germany would be trash; economically on par with Argentina or maybe Brazil on a bad day. Comparing that to losing Greece is not using your thinking cap.
It would basically be France and a bunch of lightweight has-been countries.
Threatening to leave the EU would have led to a lot more autonomy.
Erdogan manages to avoid the trap of having to pick sides. But then again, he has the advantage of ruling over people who believe in God and don’t think sodomy is their idea of family fun. The Europeans sold their souls for material comfort and sodomite values a long time ago.
A neutral Germany could have been plan B, but the option was probably lost a long time ago, at least as far back as the 90’s.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jun 15 2023 2:49 utc | 296

Richard Steven Hack #261:

…along with S and his BS about “supporting Russia”

I am Russian, I live in Russia and I support my country. And since the West has decided to turn the entire Ukraine into an extreme Russia-hating cult, I also support the SMO.
You mistakenly perceive my and Purkayast’s positions as “opposing Russia” because you are poorly informed about the real situation and are too full of yourself to realize it.

What we said is that historically the Russian General Staff is the most well-trained and competent General Staff as compared with most of the rest in the world, with the possible exception of the Germans.

Perhaps that’s true, but it doesn’t matter. What matters is the present situation.
Surely, the “most competent” General Staff would understand the importance of encrypted comms at the tactical level. Yet for some reason the SMO was started with unencrypted comms at the tactical level (except a very small number of encrypted comms that didn’t affect anything). Encrypted comms equipment is still being supplied by volunteers, 16 months into the war. Guidance on properly setting up encrypted comms networks is being provided by volunteers. Apparently, nobody in our MoD knows how to do that. Field (wired) comms equipment is being supplied by volunteers, because the MoD can’t even supply that. Camouflage nets are being supplied by volunteers. Modern tactical medicine kits are being supplied by volunteers. Training on how to use them is being provided by volunteers. Volunteers have just written and published a textbook on modern infantry tactics, because the MoD wouldn’t provide one. Recently, the MoD supplied remote mining systems, but the mines wouldn’t activate without tiny batteries that the MoD told the officers they should somehow get on their own. Volunteers found and supplied those tiny batteries. And so on. The “most competent” General Staff, my ass.

Posted by: S | Jun 15 2023 2:51 utc | 298

@ S | Jun 15 2023 2:51 utc | 296
thanks s.. is this info getting thru to putin? i certainly hope so!

Posted by: james | Jun 15 2023 2:58 utc | 300