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May 31, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-131
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
A Dutch friend just arrived in St Petersburg for a few weeks’ visit. This is what she writes:
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 13:57 utc | 1 Just saw a video of a recently captured Ukrainian trench: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 14:04 utc | 2 “Maria Zakharova, Russia’s foreign ministry spokesperson, has dismissed US statements that it does not want to see the situation in Ukraine escalate, after this week’s drone attack on Moscow. On her Telegram channel, Zakharova said: Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 31 2023 14:06 utc | 3
From: https://voenhronika.ru/publ/vojna_na_ukraine/31_05_2023_novosti_s_ukrainy_segodnja_vsushniki_ogrebajut_ot_nashej_arty_pod_bakhmutom_potoplen_desantnyj_korabl_vms_ukrainy_karta_boev_14_video/60-1-0-14038 via Firefox Translate add-on. Posted by: West of England Andy | May 31 2023 14:22 utc | 4 Also from Voenhronika, a brief video clip of what is reported to be Patriot debris falling onto civilian road traffic. Looks as if the scene was caught by some kind of Dashcam-type device. Posted by: West of England Andy | May 31 2023 14:30 utc | 5 From previous thread.
If you’re going to make a point – at least be honest about it – the population of the Washington DC Metro area is over 8 million. Posted by: Julian | May 31 2023 14:33 utc | 6 German press (FAZ.net) reporting today that mass arrests by Kiev’s secret police of so-called collaborators are ongoing. Apparently entire families are disappearing. Posted by: Exile | May 31 2023 14:35 utc | 7 @Biswapriya Purkayast (#2) Posted by: Rokossovsky | May 31 2023 14:36 utc | 8 What I hear most is the world has gone mad. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 31 2023 14:38 utc | 9 and Bidet’s 10% of course. Posted by: rk | May 31 2023 14:40 utc | 10 We discussed this at MoA when the SMO started, but I’ll bring it up again: Posted by: JulianJ | May 31 2023 14:46 utc | 11 Julian – 6 Posted by: Clueless Joe | May 31 2023 14:50 utc | 12 RT: “(Belgorod Region) governor Gladkov said that the situation in the border town of Shebekino was “deteriorating”. The local governor has announced that children will be evacuated from border areas. He added that the authorities would soon send the first 300 children to the city of Voronezh, around 250km north-east of Belgorod.” Posted by: rk | May 31 2023 14:54 utc | 13 ⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (31 May 2023) Posted by: rumod report | May 31 2023 15:00 utc | 14 Just saw a video of a recently captured Ukrainian trench: Posted by: Elmagnostic | May 31 2023 15:02 utc | 15 Arch of Instability strangles Europe
I fully agree with Ursula von der Leyen on these points. The war needs to end in a permanent peace settlement, endorsed by a binding resolution of the UN Security Council. The only thing that must be decided and agreed upon is where to draw the line between NATO and Russia. Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 31 2023 15:05 utc | 16 @ Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 13:57 utc | 1 Posted by: james | May 31 2023 15:05 utc | 17 Posted by: rk | May 31 2023 14:54 utc | 13 Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 15:05 utc | 18 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 13:57 utc | 1, 2 Posted by: Inkan1969 | May 31 2023 15:08 utc | 19 Nobody wants war here, especially not with Ukraine as many have family there. Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:08 utc | 20 West of England Andy @4 Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:12 utc | 21 @Biswapriya Purkayast (#2) Posted by: gpc | May 31 2023 15:13 utc | 22 Paul from Norway @18 Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:20 utc | 23
Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:12 utc | 21 Posted by: West of England Andy | May 31 2023 15:25 utc | 24 rk@10….days for 500k missiles…..mere seconds for Mr Kinzhal to pay a visit…..madness does abound. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 15:30 utc | 25 @ Melaleuca | May 31 2023 2:43 utc | 217 Posted by: james | May 31 2023 15:46 utc | 26 Russia: Stalin to Gorbachev Not sure who trolls the US better, Zakharova, Lavrov or Wang Yi. They are all great at it. Posted by: Watzov | May 31 2023 16:02 utc | 28 A just peace should lead to the withdrawal of Russian troops and equipment from the territory of Ukraine,” she said. … Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 31 2023 16:07 utc | 29 “…I may have to alter my text to better take into account such scholarship. Even Kotkin, who is one of the less ideologically driven historians of the era may have misrepresented the true nature of the 1930s regime…” Roger@31 Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 16:17 utc | 30 Having absolutely no ability to read Putin’s mind, or anyone else’s for that matter, it seems to me that the Special Operation cannot be over until Odessa and the Black Sea accesses are firmly in friendly (ie Russian) hands. Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | May 31 2023 16:24 utc | 31 @Biswapriya Purkayast (#1) Posted by: bbeer | May 31 2023 16:26 utc | 32 sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 15:48 utc | 28 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 31 2023 16:26 utc | 33 Just in: Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 31 2023 16:27 utc | 34 Watzov @ 32
Seems a difficult thing to hide for well over a year. Read somewhere on TG that the ship was in some way involved in the grain deal and that’s why it was afloat. Then in some way it ticked off the Russians. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 31 2023 16:27 utc | 35 @Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 16:17 utc | 35
Oh, Applebaum is the new Conquest! Much of these propagandist lies actually stem stem from Nazi propaganda designed to show the communist government in as bad a light as possible. Academia has already substantially sunk back into the depths of Western propaganda, its a well rewarded gig to lie for Empire. Today Lavrov’s in Mozambique and at the conclusion of talks a presser was held with many of the Qs devoted to the Ukraine issue. It’s quite long and in Russian as usual, but I’ve translated it and it can be read here. Here’s one of the Q&A that IMO is very important:
Lavrov’s answer reveals one of the major reasons why the West has lost the Info War–its lies no longer work and in fact work in the opposite manner than designed. But the West knows no other way and will continue to lie, cheat and steal as Pompeo so proudly announced. Yes i remember when the mask came off in the miners strike, had friends who were miners in South Yorkshire, this Country became a Banana Republic police state, the police were acting like some South American Gestapo Goon squad, i never saw this country as the place i grew up in from that time onwards, and since it’s got worse, now the criminals will see WW3 with their arrogance. Posted by: Englishman | May 31 2023 16:37 utc | 38 Rybar: Posted by: Zhytomyr | May 31 2023 16:38 utc | 39 From Polish newspaper Do Rzeczy: Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 16:49 utc | 40 Meehole Martin Irish FM. Posted by: jpc | May 31 2023 16:52 utc | 41 Lavrov, 11 May 2022. Posted by: sln2002 | May 31 2023 16:52 utc | 42 Bevin and Roger, Posted by: Prof | May 31 2023 16:59 utc | 43 From the same newspaper Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:00 utc | 44 Here is the link to the polish newspaper Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:01 utc | 45 Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:00 utc | 52 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:12 utc | 46 Posted by: karlof1 | May 31 2023 16:36 utc | 44 Posted by: Membrum Virile | May 31 2023 17:20 utc | 47 I took the day off of work today and was out in the garage doing some things when a couple of F-16s came roaring over the neighborhood and took a turn to the north. They were probably less than 500 meters off the ground and those bastards are loud when they are low. I live less than 15 klicks from our smaller metro’s airport and the Air National Guard base is at one end of it. Posted by: DakotaRog | May 31 2023 17:28 utc | 48 [Cross-posted from The Z-Blog] Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | May 31 2023 17:29 utc | 49 “…In Ukraine they have banned the Russian Orthodox Church, created the official state church, …”. Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 17:32 utc | 50 My understanding is that economic or any other sanctions against a fellow member of the United Nations can only be done as result of a UNSC resolution. Specifically, Chapter 7, Article 41. Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:37 utc | 51 @Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:37 utc | 61
Yes, they are illegal under international law, but the West never gave a damn about international law when it comes to their own actions. Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 15:51 utc | 29 Posted by: Paco | May 31 2023 17:49 utc | 53 @julien. you dont understand why Russia doesnt do X because you arent really trying to now are you? On the slim chance im wrong ill bite. The things you are having trouble understanding why Russia doesnt do certain things. Uts because those are NATO tactics and Russia isnt in NATO. Pretty simple eh? Posted by: Tannenhouser | May 31 2023 17:50 utc | 54 I have a system for “independent” news organisations. I type “Assange” into their search engine. Usually I find nothing or very old stuff. That tells me all I need to know. Posted by: JulianJ | May 31 2023 17:51 utc | 55 Blinken announced new sanctions, part of which are reinvigorated actions against russian “mis/dis-information.” Could be a good sign: things are going so badly for 404 that the truth is getting harder to hide… Posted by: Peter b | May 31 2023 17:51 utc | 56 @58 Posted by: paddy | May 31 2023 17:52 utc | 57 We have now two (!) clips of Patriot missiles crashing into the ground. Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 17:53 utc | 58 Posted by: Roger | May 31 2023 17:46 utc | 62 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:54 utc | 59 https://t.me/llordofwar/149763
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 18:00 utc | 60 https://t.me/CyberspecNews/31997
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/32002
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 18:04 utc | 61 Posted by: Irish | May 31 2023 15:56 utc | 30 Posted by: AntiSpin | May 31 2023 18:04 utc | 62 @ America is defeated | May 31 2023 16:21 utc | 36 Posted by: John Kennard | May 31 2023 18:06 utc | 63 but the West never gave a damn about international law when it comes to their own actions. Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:07 utc | 64 It’s very likely that Gershkovich remained a Russian Citizen Posted by: Exile | May 31 2023 18:09 utc | 65 Re: #48 Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 31 2023 18:11 utc | 66 Paco | May 31 2023 17:49 utc | 63 Posted by: john | May 31 2023 18:13 utc | 67 Clueless Joe | May 31 2023 14:50 utc | 12
I hope this is satire ! Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | May 31 2023 18:18 utc | 68 Western delusion is so strong that even when reporting about a sane assessment they stick in nonsense: Posted by: ostro | May 31 2023 18:23 utc | 69 Patrick Lancaster Posted by: jo6pac | May 31 2023 18:24 utc | 70 Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 17:53 utc | 68 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:24 utc | 71 How that tiny fraction of the citizenry came to take charge of our affairs is surely the big mystery of the moment. Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:26 utc | 72 It looks to me as if the Russians saw the makings of a coup Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:34 utc | 73 Posted by: Clement | May 31 2023 18:27 utc | 84 Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 18:37 utc | 74 Posted by: JulianJ | May 31 2023 17:51 utc | 65 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:42 utc | 75 From Hal Turner’s recent article, “World War 3 Potential Kick-off Dates: June 12-24” Posted by: TM | May 31 2023 18:46 utc | 76 @52: “He pointed out that “for Russians, human life means nothing, for Ukrainians every life is worth its weight in gold.” Posted by: Ursula Zandt | May 31 2023 18:49 utc | 77 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:42 utc | 88 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:49 utc | 78 Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 17:53 utc | 68 “We have now two (!) clips of Patriot missiles crashing into the ground.” Posted by: Tim2 | May 31 2023 18:57 utc | 79 Cell networks going down could be a lot of things. Collateral bomb damage. Execs and maintenance staff deciding this is the time to head for Poland. Too many players who could have motive and means. There is likely some significance but all guesswork. Posted by: oldhippie | May 31 2023 18:59 utc | 80 Trolling:
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/48528
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 19:09 utc | 81 so the sinking of the last ukr navy is a sign that they will soon wont have any need for any? Posted by: Macpott | May 31 2023 19:11 utc | 82 Related to previous post and “.. (reports of) 2 medical aircraft have flown from Poland to Berlin reportedly transporting wounded foreign personnel”?
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 19:16 utc | 83 Berlin set to close consulates in three Russian cities by November — diplomat Posted by: consulates | May 31 2023 19:22 utc | 84 @Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:07 utc | 75
Maybe true for large powers, but its the West that continuously prattles on about their own virtue and how bad others are, while easily being the biggest law breakers, and not even following their own stated “rules” . Smaller nations cannot ignore international law, as the stronger powers can use that to punish them (e.g. the ICC and other Western-dominated legal apparatus such as the WTO, plus the UNSC).Your statement is basically following neorealism, which assumes that all states are the same. which is most definitely false. Another video released from Zaporozhye direction today, fuel and lubricant storage burning. Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 19:27 utc | 86 Posted by: consulates | May 31 2023 19:22 utc | 98 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 19:34 utc | 87 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 31 2023 18:34 utc | 86 Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 31 2023 19:36 utc | 88 TM@89… Russia can ill afford to wait for NATO to enter Ukie air space, any of those planes or all could launch nuclear weapons. The respective countries will be engaged, long before all the planes are shot down, that is the only way this ends…. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 19:36 utc | 89 @11 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 31 2023 19:37 utc | 90 Paco 37 Posted by: Sam | May 31 2023 19:51 utc | 91 Russia sinks Ukraine’s ‘last warship’ – MOD, 31 May
(GOOG returns 0 results for “May 29, 2023 Russia sinks Ukraine ship”)
Accordingly, “state-controlled” UA news have agreed this event never occurred.
without reference, as is the custom, to UA Navy assets in service in any sea. Posted by: sln2002 | May 31 2023 19:56 utc | 92 Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 19:09 utc | 95 Posted by: Paco | May 31 2023 20:00 utc | 93 Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 19:27 utc | 100 Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 20:01 utc | 94 @ Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:00 utc | 52 Posted by: John Kennard | May 31 2023 20:02 utc | 95 Dima reported that RUAF managed to hit the HQ of UAF 33rd mech brigade, one of the newly Nato armed brigades which was deployed close to the front in Zaporozhye region. So even by not attacking they are losing coherency and efficiency. Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 20:03 utc | 96 On the speculation of a coup, it’d the Maericans in my estimation who would most likely be interested in stopping any revolt by the UAF and others as any such initiative would be to stop the bleeding of Ukraine and would negate their investment in proxy forces. It’s unlikely any other coup scenario would happen without specific Maerican support. To the last Ukrainian it is. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 31 2023 20:03 utc | 97 The most hilarious entry by far (so far this week) was submitted by Ukrinform.
very science-y! Posted by: sln2002 | May 31 2023 20:06 utc | 98 Zero Hedge says “Russia now says it is in the process of evacuating families and hundreds of children from villages in the border region, calling the situation “alarming” . . “We are starting today to evacuate children from the Shebekino and Graivoron districts” Posted by: Perimetr | May 31 2023 20:08 utc | 99 Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 19:36 utc | 103 Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 20:11 utc | 100 |
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