Ukraine Open Thread 2023-131
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on May 31, 2023 at 13:52 UTC | Permalink
next page »Just saw a video of a recently captured Ukrainian trench:
https://t.me/antinatocoalition/10186
After the first 30 seconds I stopped trying to count the corpses. Every one of these men died for Lloyd Austin's Raytheon stock holdings and Elensky's cocaine dealer's bank balance....and Bidet's 10% of course.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 14:04 utc | 2
"Maria Zakharova, Russia’s foreign ministry spokesperson, has dismissed US statements that it does not want to see the situation in Ukraine escalate, after this week’s drone attack on Moscow. On her Telegram channel, Zakharova said:
That’s funny. They broke the house themselves, doused it with gasoline, set fire to it themselves, planted fireworks and firewood themselves, and now they are declaring an ‘unwillingness to escalate’. The ‘war of the west’ in a hybrid format has been going on for a long time."
She's so droll.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 31 2023 14:06 utc | 3
The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation officially confirmed destruction of the medium landing ship "Yuri Olefirenko"during strikes on Odessa on May 29. Otmuchalsya old man. He began serving in the Soviet Union in the early 70s.As Daniel Bezsonov writes , the city is searching for residents who leaked the ship's parking place to our military. Despite the Gestapo terror, residents of Odessa and the Odessa region still provide significant amounts of information to our military about the movements of enemy troops and places where equipment and ammunition are stored.
It is also worth noting that the enemy periodically changed the ship's parking place and took measures to disguise it. (Boris Rozhin)
From: https://voenhronika.ru/publ/vojna_na_ukraine/31_05_2023_novosti_s_ukrainy_segodnja_vsushniki_ogrebajut_ot_nashej_arty_pod_bakhmutom_potoplen_desantnyj_korabl_vms_ukrainy_karta_boev_14_video/60-1-0-14038 via Firefox Translate add-on.
Posted by: West of England Andy | May 31 2023 14:22 utc | 4
Also from Voenhronika, a brief video clip of what is reported to be Patriot debris falling onto civilian road traffic. Looks as if the scene was caught by some kind of Dashcam-type device.
https://ok.ru/video/5251917941376
Posted by: West of England Andy | May 31 2023 14:30 utc | 5
From previous thread.
Re: Posted by: bevin | May 30 2023 17:42 utc | 72
DC is just an admin centre for the federal government. Moscow is an ancient capital, the heart of a nation, more like Paris or London. Hence the population discrepancy: DC about 800,000; Moscow 12 million
If you’re going to make a point - at least be honest about it - the population of the Washington DC Metro area is over 8 million.
Posted by: Julian | May 31 2023 14:33 utc | 6
German press (FAZ.net) reporting today that mass arrests by Kiev’s secret police of so-called collaborators are ongoing. Apparently entire families are disappearing.
Posted by: Exile | May 31 2023 14:35 utc | 7
@Biswapriya Purkayast (#2)
I was always wondering how stuff like this happened:
Excavating German Soldiers
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=excavating+german+soldiers
Thanks to your link, now I know. Presumably, in the past, the corpses were just plowed under.
If you watch enough of those videos, the excavators occasionally discover relics from the Napoleonic invasion, Crimean War, World War 1, the Civil War ...in addition to the Great Patriotic War. Who would have imagined that the United States would add the next layer?
I guess it will never end. (sigh)
Posted by: Rokossovsky | May 31 2023 14:36 utc | 8
What I hear most is the world has gone mad.
Can anyone doubt a veritable Dystopia has been unleashed over the past years by a Cult of Manifest Sickness and Delusion ?
However what are the supposedly sane doing to obstruct and deny ?
In previous centuries Resistance was palpable - now it is barely verbal
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 31 2023 14:38 utc | 9
and Bidet's 10% of course.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 14:04 utc | 2
Some believe the big guy is Obomber, not papa
So now that Schlitz has today officially approved attacks on civilian targets in Moscow, how many days before the 500km missiles get to Ukr?
Posted by: rk | May 31 2023 14:40 utc | 10
We discussed this at MoA when the SMO started, but I'll bring it up again:
I wonder why the Russians aren't pressurising the Outlaw US Empire(OUSE for short) by striking at it in Syria?
That would seem to be good strategically + deniable (if its Syrians/Iranians/PMCs doing the fighting). Stretch the enemy a bit more. As the Russian military industry is full-on refurbishing stuff in storage, some upgraded T62s + AD + Arty (supposedly they have 200-500 monster 203mm Pion SP guns + shells in storage) + drones, plus whatever else they can spare.
Attacking Al Tanf, or better still the oilfields would be quite effective in my view, and hard to counter with everything heading to Ukraine or Taiwan. The OUSE is pushing colour revolutions in where it deems soft spots (e.g. Kazakhstan and Thailand.) I don't understand why Russia doesn't do the same: it has legal authorisation. I can't imagine the Syrians or Iranians not wanting to have a go.
Posted by: JulianJ | May 31 2023 14:46 utc | 11
Julian - 6
To be precise, 6.5 mio for DC, 21.5 for Moscow. And indeed DC is a recent capital of a federal state, unlike Moscow, which is the monocephalic centralized heart of an ancient empire - so, like with Paris and London, Moscow is a truly macrocephalic gigantic capital which makes up a good chunk of the total population, and the 2nd most populous city is a mere fraction of the head's population - though it's still less pronounced in Russia than in Turkey, UK, France, or most of Latin America.
US on the other hand is closer to more federal decentralized states like Germany (even more so with the former West Germany), Spain, India or Switzerland - or to China even.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | May 31 2023 14:50 utc | 12
RT: "(Belgorod Region) governor Gladkov said that the situation in the border town of Shebekino was “deteriorating”. The local governor has announced that children will be evacuated from border areas. He added that the authorities would soon send the first 300 children to the city of Voronezh, around 250km north-east of Belgorod."
Posted by: rk | May 31 2023 14:54 utc | 13
⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (31 May 2023)
💥 On May 29, as a result of a high-precision strike launched by the Russian Aerospace Forces against a military berth in the port of Odessa, the last of the Ukrainian warships, Yuri Olefirenko, was destroyed.
◽️ In Kupyansk direction, assault detachments, Operational-Tactical aviation, artillery, and heavy flamethrower systems of the Zapad Group of Forces have inflicted fire damage on the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) close to Tabayevka, Molchanovo, Novomlynsk, Berestovoye (Kharkov region), and Novoselovskoye and Stelmakhovka (Lugansk People's Republic).
◽️ Three sabotage and reconnaissance groups of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been disabled close to Timkovka, Sinkovka, and Kotlyarovka. Up to 70 Ukrainian personnel, two armoured vehicles, and four pick-up trucks were neutralised.
◽️ Moreover, ammunition depots of the 60th Mechanised Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was destroyed close to Liptsy and Sinelnikovo (Kharkov region).
◽️ In Krasny Liman direction, aviation and artillery of the Tsentr Group of Forces engaged the units of the enemy close to Makeevka, Chervonaya Dibrova (Lugansk People's Republic), Torskoye, Yampolovka (Donetsk People's Republic) and the Serevryansky forestry.
◽️ Over 50 Ukrainian personnel, two armoured fighting vehicles, three motor vehicles, one Gvozdika self-propelled artillery system, two D-20 howitzers, one D-30 howitzer, and one Grad MLRS system the enemy has lost in this direction.
◽️ In the Donetsk direction, the fiercest hostilities are taking place near Avdeevka.
◽️ In the course of active operations by assault detachments of the 1st Army Corps supported by aviation, artillery fire, and heavy flamethrower systems of the Yug Group of Forces, the enemy was dislodged from occupied positions in a number of areas near the settlements of Krasnogorovka and Yasinovataya (Donetsk People's Republic).
◽️ Operational-Tactical and Army aviation launched strikes to engage AFU units near Avdeevka and Khimik. In addition, a warehouse of rocket and artillery weapons of the 110th Mechanised Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has been obliterated.
◽️ The 5th Motorised Rifle Brigade and the Akhmat Special Forces Detachment are carrying out successful offensives in Maryinka direction.
◽️ In this direction, the enemy has suffered losses of over 200 Ukrainian troops, three armoured fighting vehicles, 12 motor vehicles, one D-30 howitzer, and two Grad MLRS vehicles during the day.
◽️ In South Donetsk and Zaporozhye directions, aviation and artillery of the Vostok Group of Forces inflicted fire damage on the AFU units close to Velikaya Novosyolka, Pavlovka, Vladimirovka (Donetsk People's Republic) and Malinovka (Zaporozhye region).
◽️ Up to 185 Ukrainian servicemen, two armoured fighting vehicles, and four motor vehicles have been eliminated in this direction during the day. Moreover, ammunition depots of the 65th Mechanised Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were wiped out close to Preobrazhenka and Chervonaya Krinitsa (Zaporozhye region)
◽️ In Kherson direction, up to 30 Ukrainian troops, two armoured fighting vehicles, and two motor vehicles have been destroyed.
💥 Operational-Tactical and Army aviation, Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Group of Forces have engaged 103 AFU artillery units, manpower and hardware in 149 areas during the day.
◽️ Moreover, a command post of the 33rd Mechanised Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was destroyed close to Trudovoye (Zaporozhye region).
◽️ A command and observation post of the 'Skala' assault battalion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was eliminated close to Avdeevka (Donetsk People's Republic).
◽️ Air defence forces have intercepted 12 HIMARS MLRS projectiles and one Storm Shadow long-range cruise missile during the day.
◽️ Moreover, 11 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down close to Verkhnekamenka, Zaliman (Lugansk People's Republic), and Pokrovskoye (Donetsk People's Republic).
📊 In total, 429 airplanes and 235 helicopters, 4,390 unmanned aerial vehicles, 424 air defence missile systems, 9,345 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 1,103 combat vehicles equipped with MRLS, 4,946 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 10,574 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.
Posted by: rumod report | May 31 2023 15:00 utc | 14
Just saw a video of a recently captured Ukrainian trench:
https://t.me/antinatocoalition/10186
After the first 30 seconds I stopped trying to count the corpses.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 14:04 utc | 2
Yes. Multiply all the killed soldiers in this video by, say, 20,000 and you have a VUMO. Very Ugly Military Operation.
Spare me the justifications. I probably agree with them.
Posted by: Elmagnostic | May 31 2023 15:02 utc | 15
Arch of Instability strangles Europe
Donbass Devushka on Telegram (Reposted by @Down South in the previous thread, May 31 2023 11:10 utc | 284)
🇪🇺🇺🇦🇷🇺 Unelected by the EU people Von der Leyen opposed the ceasefire in UkraineThe head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, at a security conference in Slovakia opposed the proposals of countries to achieve a ceasefire in Ukraine.
According to her, this "will only freeze the conflict", and the line of contact will be a source of destabilization for the region.
“A ceasefire that leaves the conflict frozen will not lead to a lasting peace <…>
A ceasefire would be unstable and would destabilize the region along the line of contact.
No one will invest or rebuild (Ukraine) and conflict could flare up at any moment. No.
A just peace should lead to the withdrawal of Russian troops and equipment from the territory of Ukraine,” she said. ...
I fully agree with Ursula von der Leyen on these points. The war needs to end in a permanent peace settlement, endorsed by a binding resolution of the UN Security Council. The only thing that must be decided and agreed upon is where to draw the line between NATO and Russia.
I also agree, that Russian troops will have to withdraw from Lvov, or whatever rump Ukraine remains after the agreement, independent, or as part of Poland. But note, von der Leyen says "Russian troops and equipment". Evidently she is afraid of an independent Novorossiya left by Russia to defend itself, as they did for the first eight years of the war. Russia never acknowledged supplying weapons to the Novorossiyan Armed Forces. Most of their weapons and armor was captured from the Kyiv Regime forces. In any case, I believe there is enough NATO and former Ukrainian weapons to create a new NAF to defend the Kharkov and Odessa People's Republics, or whatever structures may be established as a buffer zone.
***
For years I have written about the US creating an Arch of Instability around Europe, stretching from Nordkapp to Gibraltar through the Baltics (and now Finland), Belarus, Ukraine, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Libya, Algeria. Its purpose is to isolate Europe from Asian and African energy and resources and make the EU totally dependent on trade with the US.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 31 2023 15:05 utc | 16
@ Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 13:57 utc | 1
thanks biswapriya... that was nice to read off the top.. i agree with your friends sentiments..
@ Sushi | May 31 2023 1:47 utc | 203 ( last open ukee thread )
thanks for the rundown and potential scenario sushi.. you would make a good script writer for hollywood! i hear what you are saying, but i think things are going to play out differently.. i hear what you are saying and appreciate the time you put into thinking and analyzing all this...
@ rumod report | May 31 2023 15:00 utc | 14
thanks for these overviews! what happened to down south, or is that you?
Posted by: james | May 31 2023 15:05 utc | 17
Posted by: rk | May 31 2023 14:54 utc | 13
RT: "(Belgorod Region) governor Gladkov said that the situation in the border town of Shebekino was “deteriorating”. The local governor has announced that children will be evacuated from border areas. He added that the authorities would soon send the first 300 children to the city of Voronezh, around 250km north-east of Belgorod."
This is probably the "counter"- attack. and when this attack is driven back- Transnistria migth be the next.
Look closely at Kosovo- I very strongly fell that the Defender23 will have a special focus there as a diversion from Ukraina. New focus, Russians cant help the Serbs, a lot of goodies for the USA/Nato
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 15:05 utc | 18
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 13:57 utc | 1, 2
Of course the Russian civilians are nice people. Anyone who says otherwise about both Russian and Ukrainian civilians are irrational. It's usually the situation in war that the hostilities don't extend to the civilian level, and shouldn't be extended.
I remember a post where you said you found yourself much more able and willing to depict lethal violence directed at Ukranazis than in the Syria strips I wonder then if those men died to satisfy your overpowering need to kill Ukrainians.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | May 31 2023 15:08 utc | 19
Nobody wants war here, especially not with Ukraine as many have family there.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast @1
--------------------------------------
This is just like Mainland China and Taiwan: we have relatives on both sides of the Taiwasn Strait, millions of people from Taiwan work and live in Mainland China, Taiwan's biggest trading partner is Mainland China, which (incl HK) provides about half of Taiwan's trade surplus.
Yet, Tsai Ing-wen and her DPP (Democratic Progress Party) is playing directly into the hands of US politicans and its MIC to try to start a war with Mainland China for personal and political gains.
The saddest thing is lots of Westerners, thanks to 24/7 brainwash by MSM, believe that Russia is the bad guy, China is the bad buy, who wants to have a war!
Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:08 utc | 20
West of England Andy @4
Isn't it a bit dangerous for those who live in Odessa and do provide information to Russia when the author openly acknowledge it like this?
Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:12 utc | 21
@Biswapriya Purkayast (#2)
only few of the soldiers are wounded or have holes in their suits , I didn't found any traces of explosions - so maybe this is the work of russian thermobaric weapons.
Posted by: gpc | May 31 2023 15:13 utc | 22
Paul from Norway @18
I remember reading somewhere that Ukraine plans to get hold some Russian territory in order to exchange for Russia to give back the "occupied Ukraine land".
Could this be part of their counter offensive plan?
Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:20 utc | 23
Isn't it a bit dangerous for those who live in Odessa and do provide information to Russia when the author openly acknowledge it like this?
Posted by: lulu | May 31 2023 15:12 utc | 21
I expect both sides are already well aware of what’s going on. Those providing the information will be under no illusion about the risks involved, but will provide it anyway. It used to be called Resistance, something, as @Paul Greenwood | May 31 2023 14:38 utc | 9 notes, that is a concept many of us in the softly mollycoddled West have lost.
Posted by: West of England Andy | May 31 2023 15:25 utc | 24
[email protected] for 500k missiles.....mere seconds for Mr Kinzhal to pay a visit.....madness does abound.
Cheers M
US senators, sat phones in hand.
From bunkers try to hide
...but Mr Kinzhal has the master key, time is on his side.....cue: The Lira Laugh
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 15:30 utc | 25
@ Melaleuca | May 31 2023 2:43 utc | 217
thanks for your post on the lost usa mercenary in ukraine on the previous thread..
Posted by: james | May 31 2023 15:46 utc | 26
Writing about this part of Russia's history really highlights the Cold War nature of much of Western academic work on Communist Russia (now mirrored with respect to Putin's leadership). Episodes such as the 1930s famine, and the nature of the leadership and society is covered by historians who have produced Western canonical texts without disclosing their links to propaganda services, the security state in general, right wing think tanks and even Ukrainian nationalists (Robert Conquest is a study in such deceit). With the opening of the Soviet archives, much of what Western "historians", Khrushchev and Gorbachev said about the communist period can be seen as intentional lies to forward their own. agenda.
With these canonical texts, and the general Western establishment line with respect to Soviet Communist times, even authors that I respect for their coverage of present Russia have to toe the line it seems. A good case is that of Stephen Cohen's book about Bukharin, with some of the repeating of the now debunked (but not very publicly or widely accepted) Western canon covered in this essay:
Stephen Cohen’s Biography of Bukharin:A Study in the Falsehood of Khrushchev-Era “Revelations”
There is also a recent book on the era of the purges by J. Arch Getty and Oleg V. Naumov, "the road to terror", which extensively uses the material that has become available in the past few decades. With respect to the purges, I may have to alter my text to better take into account such scholarship. Even Kotkin, who is one of the less ideologically driven historians of the era may have misrepresented the true nature of the 1930s regime.
Not sure who trolls the US better, Zakharova, Lavrov or Wang Yi. They are all great at it.
P.S. If anyone has Maria's number, I'd like to propose!!
In other Ukraine news.... blown up ship that has been trying to hide and when it stuck its nose out, got hit.
Posted by: Watzov | May 31 2023 16:02 utc | 28
A just peace should lead to the withdrawal of Russian troops and equipment from the territory of Ukraine,” she said. ...
She is a silly vain woman who like most of the performers on the European stage wants to give the impression she retains control. They know however they have lost control and are adrift having unleashed Russia to assume its natural place at the top table - and that with China alongside - they have blown up the foundations of their Pretend Kingdom of Affluence........and are heading for implosion into yet another European Collapse
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 31 2023 16:07 utc | 29
"...I may have to alter my text to better take into account such scholarship. Even Kotkin, who is one of the less ideologically driven historians of the era may have misrepresented the true nature of the 1930s regime..." Roger@31
I think that you are right. Kotkin's analysis sticks out in your piece like a sore thumb. It is not hard to sympathise with the predicament that any historians of the USSR run into: the entire history has to be re-written. It is so marinated in propaganda of the very worst kind* that it is impossible, for example, to re-examine the case of Bukharin without being tempted to take the resy for granted. You mentioned Conquest, but his school lives on in the likes of Snider and Applebaum who have traded the contempt of eternity for a few dollars and friends in high places.
* Propaganda so bad that Goebbels's anti-communist lies are relatively mild compared with the madness of the Holodomor and Gulag scholars.
Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 16:17 utc | 30
Having absolutely no ability to read Putin's mind, or anyone else's for that matter, it seems to me that the Special Operation cannot be over until Odessa and the Black Sea accesses are firmly in friendly (ie Russian) hands.
Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | May 31 2023 16:24 utc | 31
@Biswapriya Purkayast (#1)
@Irish (#30)
I wonder if the industrial amount of cocaine imported in the US has anything to do with everything
Posted by: bbeer | May 31 2023 16:26 utc | 32
sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 15:48 utc | 28
DUBLIN, April 5 (Reuters) - Ireland's government is to ask the public for their views on the country's tradition of military neutrality in a consutlative forum, the foreign minister said on Wednesday, the latest sign of a possible shift in the wake of Russia's Ukraine invasion.
Foreign Minister Micheál Martin said the forum, which will be held in June in three different cities over four days, will focus on a range of security issues and allow for a discussion on the decades-old neutrality policy.
"The international security environment has changed significantly over the last year. We have seen blatant and brutal disregard by Russia of international law," Martin said in a statement.
"Ireland's commitment to a rules-based international order and our traditional policy of military neutrality do not inure us from the need to respond to this new reality."
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 31 2023 16:26 utc | 33
Just in:
"It may not be possible to send Vladimir Putin to face war crime charges at The Hague if he is the only person with whom the west has to negotiate an end to the Ukraine war, Emmanuel Macron has said."
"In a wide-ranging speech at an EU leaders conference in Moldova, the French president also set out plans for a fast enlargement of the EU, reconciliation between the east and west of Europe and a clear path to Ukraine’s Nato membership.
"He insisted that Russia had lost all legitimacy, but said if the coming Ukraine offensive did not meet its military objectives there would have to be an assessment of the nature of future European support for Ukraine. At the same time he insisted that Ukraine was defending not just its own borders, but those of Europe."
"but said if the coming Ukraine offensive did not meet its military objectives there would have to be an assessment of the nature of future European support for Ukraine."
Finally they are aware.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 31 2023 16:27 utc | 34
Watzov @ 32
blown up ship that has been trying to hide and when it stuck its nose out, got hit
Seems a difficult thing to hide for well over a year. Read somewhere on TG that the ship was in some way involved in the grain deal and that's why it was afloat. Then in some way it ticked off the Russians.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 31 2023 16:27 utc | 35
@Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 16:17 utc | 35
* Propaganda so bad that Goebbels's anti-communist lies are relatively mild compared with the madness of the Holodomor and Gulag scholars.
Oh, Applebaum is the new Conquest! Much of these propagandist lies actually stem stem from Nazi propaganda designed to show the communist government in as bad a light as possible. Academia has already substantially sunk back into the depths of Western propaganda, its a well rewarded gig to lie for Empire.
In Ukraine they have banned the Russian Orthodox Church, created the official state church, and rewritten history to glorify a "Ukraine" that never existed, and indoctrinate their children to hate ethnic Russians in the same way that the Nazis did with respect to Jews.. The regime so resembles that of the Nazis, mirrored by the appreciation of Western elites (just like Churchill and Ford) as long as it operates to the benefit of the West. The only real difference is that the Western elites scream that Ukraine is "saving democracy!"rather than "a bulwark against the bolsheviks!".
Today Lavrov's in Mozambique and at the conclusion of talks a presser was held with many of the Qs devoted to the Ukraine issue. It's quite long and in Russian as usual, but I've translated it and it can be read here. Here's one of the Q&A that IMO is very important:
Question: In your speeches (and today, too) you often refer to the split between the "collective West" and the "global majority", the countries of the south, east and part of the north. How is such pressure from the West, which you mentioned, perceived on the African continent?Does the position of neutrality taken by some African countries maintain the status quo of dictatorship or is gradually changing the international system in its own way?
Sergey Lavrov: At the very least, we are witnessing the "global majority's blatant fatigue" from the "harassment" of the "collective West", which is becoming more and more boorish and shameless. They demand to unequivocally take the anti-Russian side, to stop mutually beneficial ties with our country. They do not promise anything good in return, but promise not to punish. That's the whole truth.
Many countries, in order to get rid of these "harassment" and "harassment" in international forums, agree to vote according to Western rules. In return, they decide not to support any sanctions for themselves. We continue our practical cooperation with Russia, in the course of which we and our partners are successfully working on and finding ways to protect our trade, economic and investment relations from the illegitimate sanctions that the "collective West" imposes, completely forgetting about any principles on which it built its model of globalization, advertising it around the world as the optimal form of development of world economic relations.
The sanctions promoted by the West against Russia, as well as against China and other countries (I mean Iran and Venezuela), a number of African states, are aimed at continuing, as was customary among the colonialists, to live at the expense of others, eliminating strong competitors by unscrupulous and dishonest methods. Africa does not want to return to colonial times, as well as to neo-colonial ones. It wants to make the most of the natural resources it possesses. Not just to trade in raw materials exported from here for centuries, but to make products based on it that will have added value and be in demand. We are ready to help our African friends in this.
Today's Africa is immeasurably more aware of its identity. It is increasingly demanding an equal place in the emerging multipolar world order, including through proper fair representation in the UN Security Council. The Russian Federation supports this.
Lavrov's answer reveals one of the major reasons why the West has lost the Info War--its lies no longer work and in fact work in the opposite manner than designed. But the West knows no other way and will continue to lie, cheat and steal as Pompeo so proudly announced.
Yes i remember when the mask came off in the miners strike, had friends who were miners in South Yorkshire, this Country became a Banana Republic police state, the police were acting like some South American Gestapo Goon squad, i never saw this country as the place i grew up in from that time onwards, and since it's got worse, now the criminals will see WW3 with their arrogance.
Posted by: Englishman | May 31 2023 16:37 utc | 38
Rybar:
Today, satellite images of military depots to the south-east of Zhytomyr appeared on the network with a difference of ten days - on May 20 and 30. The footage shows the serious destruction caused by the strike of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on the morning of May 28.
Coordinates: 50,1066970, 28,8038165
Then, on video, residents recorded a powerful explosion and detonation of ammunition somewhere in the Zhytomyr region. The hangars themselves are located 17 kilometers south-east of the city.
According to open sources, this area was abandoned. However, in the settlement of Chervony Stepok, to which the hangars are adjacent, there was one of the units of the 433rd joint base for the storage of weapons and equipment of the Air Forces of Ukraine.
It is likely that the extensive facility complex was used to store aviation ammunition for tactical aircraft stationed nearby at the Ozernoye Airbase.
Posted by: Zhytomyr | May 31 2023 16:38 utc | 39
From Polish newspaper Do Rzeczy:
The Ukrainian general criticizes Zelensky. 'Catastrophic consequences'
Retired General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Serhiy Krivonos accuses President Volodymyr Zelensky of failing to properly assess the capabilities of the Russian army.
Volodymyr Zelensky's miscalculations of Russian troops' capabilities have led to disastrous consequences for Ukraine," said Krivonos, who is a former deputy commander of Ukraine's Special Operations Forces.
In his opinion, Zelensky "boasted that the Ukrainian military allegedly broke the neck of the Russian army, but this does not reflect the real situation at all." "We must not forget that Moscow has a technical and quantitative advantage, and its troops are well trained," the general stressed.
He also pointed out that officials in Kiev regularly assess the state of Russian troops, while refusing to discuss problems in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Ukraine began to make the same mistake as Russia?
Last week, there were reports that Ukraine, following Russia, began to send mobilized people to the front without proper preparation. The case came to light because the reservists went to the media with it.
Basic training in the Ukrainian army should last 30 days. It takes another 14-40 days to master a military specialty. According to the reports of the mobilized, there were situations when the training lasted one day (its time and quality varies depending on the unit).
In some brigades, briefings are conducted by active soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or foreign instructors from the USA, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. In others, instead of training, the mobilized are forced to clean the area or paint the walls.
In March, Lieutenant Colonel Anatoly Kozel, commander of the airborne battalion, told The Washington Post about the problems with training mobilized in Ukraine, after which he was demoted.
OSW on the situation at the front
According to the latest report of the Centre for Eastern Studies, the Ukrainian attacks, focused on the disorganisation of the hostile base on the border of the Zaporizhia and Donetsk oblasts, indicate that Kyiv still sees cutting off Crimea from the land connection with Russia as the main target of the announced counter-strike."
"Russian attacks on the deep base of the defenders allow us to assume that their main goal is to exhaust the potential of the Ukrainian forces, and thus hinder or prevent them from operating on an operational scale, regardless of the direction adopted. They do not indicate what the main direction of a possible attack by the aggressor would be" - emphasizes OSW."
https://dorzeczy.pl/opinie/445485/ukraina-general-sil-zbrojnych-oskarza-zelenskiego.html
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 16:49 utc | 40
Meehole Martin Irish FM.
Is a spineless creep.
Always has been.
Love's getting a pat on the head from the US and Brussels.
He's destroyed his own political party FF.
Posted by: jpc | May 31 2023 16:52 utc | 41
Lavrov, 11 May 2022.
Nor is the continent Biden's "sixth region of the African Union"
Africa is not a country. The African Union (AU55) is a "political community" of 55 nations established in 1963. And many of its members also are active participants in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC).
AU/OAU(2002/1963 FTA): BI, BJ, CM, CF, CG, CD, GY, GA, ST, CM, DJ, ER, ET, KE, MG, MU, RW, SC, SO, SS, s-SS, TZ, UG, DZ, EG, LY, MR, MA, EH, TN, AO, BW, EZ, LS, MW, MZ, NA, ZA, ZM, BN, BF, CV, CI, GH, GM, GN, GQ, LY, ML, NI, NG, SL, SN, TG, TD; PAPSS (2022)
OIC (1969 NGO): AZ, AE, IR, IQ, BD, TR, TN, SN, SL, GA, GW, QA, KW, ML, MR, YE, JO, ID, PK, AF, UZ, BH, AL, UG, BN, BJ, TM, BF, TJ, TG, TD, DZ, SA, SS, SY, SR, SO, OM, GM, GY, GN, PS, KM, KG, KZ, CM, CI, LB, LY, MV, MY, EG, MA, MZ, NE, NG
Posted by: sln2002 | May 31 2023 16:52 utc | 42
Bevin and Roger,
Yes, the entire history of the USSR has to be rewritten, and American and British academics simply can't do that job because of their deep ideological biases.
The best rethinking has been the work of the social historians on 1917 -- see Mandel's two volumes, for example.
I'm curious how you evaluate Tauger's work on the famine. He says that it was primarily about poor harvests caused by environmental factors. His data seems to support those claims.
Posted by: Prof | May 31 2023 16:59 utc | 43
From the same newspaper
Andrzej Duda: Putin has not lost any war. For now, the Russian roller crushes Ukraine
Today it is said that Vladimir Putin lost the war. He has not lost any war, I hope that he will lose it – said President Andrzej Duda.
– Today it is said that Vladimir Putin lost the war, and his failure is that Finland joined NATO, although for years the Finnish society hesitated whether it should abandon neutrality. Ladies and gentlemen, Vladimir Putin has not lost any war. I hope he loses it," the president said.
– For now, we have a situation in which the Russian roller crushes Ukraine, hundreds of people are killed every day at the front, with over 100 million Russians and less than 40 million Ukrainians. This difference alone shows who has the advantage here – he added.
He pointed out that "for Russians, human life means nothing, for Ukrainians every life is worth its weight in gold." "It's a different culture. Russia is a nuclear power, it has gigantic weapons warehouses – so what if we laugh that it rolls tanks from the 60s, if each tank weighs 50-60 tons. If it goes, it crushes, regardless of whether it is modern – he emphasized.
Duda on Russia and Putin: You can't say that today
According to the president, "Putin will lose the war when the Russian army is driven out of the internationally recognized borders of Ukraine."
"Then we will say that they gained nothing as a result of this war, that their plan to enslave Ukraine failed, their imperial ambitions were punished, they lost hundreds of thousands of people. That Putin's failure is also the fact that more and more countries have joined NATO, which is stronger than ever. Today it is impossible to say this – he emphasized.
He added that "the war continues, Russia is more and more mobilized, the Russian economy is switching to war modes."
– Please do not doubt that they can persuade people with propaganda that they should tighten their belts, and even if they are hungry, they should be proud because Russia is great. Today, our common duty as a community of the West, of which Poland is also a part, is to support Ukraine.
Refugees from Ukraine in Poland. "We know what war is"
Referring to the Katyn massacre, the president stated that "everyone knows that Russians rape, rob, demolish," so "no one had to ask Poles to go to the eastern border and take Ukrainians to their homes."
"We didn't build refugee camps. In total, 12 million people have passed through Poland since the beginning of the war. Many Ukrainians live in Polish homes with their whole families, because people know what war is and what Russian aggression and occupation are.
"We know that only defeating Russia will make us safe – first of all, the Baltic States and Poland, but also the countries of Western Europe. I remind our German neighbours that the Russians were in Berlin. I remind my colleagues from France that in Napoleonic times they were also in Paris – said the president.
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:00 utc | 44
Here is the link to the polish newspaper
https://dorzeczy.pl/opinie/445461/duda-mowi-sie-ze-putin-przegral-wojne-nie-przegral.html
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:01 utc | 45
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:00 utc | 52
Interesting opinion of Soviet and therefore necessarily wicked Russian warfare, without any justifying references.
Ant.
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:12 utc | 46
Posted by: karlof1 | May 31 2023 16:36 utc | 44
Once again a comment 100% pertinent to the Ukraine from the infallible Ozymandias of Oregon.
Lavrov said:
“The sanctions promoted by the West against Russia, as well as against China and other countries (I mean Iran and Venezuela), a number of African states”
I bet the Cubans are ecstatic right about now.
Posted by: Membrum Virile | May 31 2023 17:20 utc | 47
I took the day off of work today and was out in the garage doing some things when a couple of F-16s came roaring over the neighborhood and took a turn to the north. They were probably less than 500 meters off the ground and those bastards are loud when they are low. I live less than 15 klicks from our smaller metro's airport and the Air National Guard base is at one end of it.
Its not unusual to see them flying on the weekends when the Guard has their monthly drills, flying on a Wednesday is a bit more rare. Perhaps they are practicing for AirDefender23, I'll have to check their website to see what they list for summer exercises. I hope they are practicing getting "locked on" because that might be their fate if they end up in eastern Europe...
Posted by: DakotaRog | May 31 2023 17:28 utc | 48
[Cross-posted from The Z-Blog]
Before I begin, I would just like to clarify something that is of general interest to the conversation on this blog. The Z-Man is fond of saying that the Cloud People "really believe" their own propaganda about wokeness and the GAE, and this point of view is contrasted with those who think that nobody could be so silly as to believe what Leftists claim to believe, so the woke politicians must really be making cynical bids for power by mouthing the right dogmas. The truth is that each of these points of view is partially right and partially wrong.
On the one hand, career politicians do have highly developed instincts about what sorts of things to say to advance their own careers, and the "truth" of every utterance, as far as they're concerned, is merely its utilitarian value in achieving this end. Thus, those who claim they are making cynical bids for power, are not wrong. But on the other hand, they do really "believe" all the nonsense about climate change and electric vehicles and Covid and so forth, so those who claim they are true believers are not wrong, either.
Where both sides are wrong, however, is in the implicit assumptions that the true believers believe what they believe in the manner of someone who actually knows what they are talking about, or that they pursue power in the manner of someone who ruthlessly calculated a strategy.
It is fair to say that none of the political defenders of Gaia actually understand real geophysics, none of the Branch Covidians understand much about viruses, and none of the Ukrainiacs actually understand the problems of industrial warfare and economic production in the modern world. They may very well believe in climate change and Glory to Ukraine, but they don't have a prudent man's grounds for their belief. The prudent man must make sure that his facts are true, that his thoughts are logical, and that his ends are both desirable and possible within the framework of facts and logic. Leftist "beliefs" do not fit the criteria of what a prudent man believes, thus they are by definition not "truly" believed, no matter how fervently insisted upon.
Likewise, their grasping at power does not proceed by way of Machiavellian machinations struggling upward, but by sanctimonious demagoguery catering downward. Their desire to appeal to the mass, to the base, to the lowest common denominator, is not so much a cynical tactic as it is a natural process of settling. Their crude thought finds its level in banal, tubthumping slogans and spiteful attacks upon the betters. It is their way because it is the easy way.
Nobody with this mindset, this dual lack of all intelligence and character, can possibly understand what is going on in Russia today. Russia does not have an end game. For Russia, this is simply life. Ukraine is now the frontier, the dark forest which is never quite emptied or pacified. They are prepared for their campaign to last decades until the West is bankrupted, NATO is broken, and the Americans withdraw from Europe. They no more think about winning a war with Ukraine than a sailor thinks about wining a war with the sea or a Bedouin thinks about winning a war with the sand. They simply live with it until they understand it and transform it into themselves.
Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | May 31 2023 17:29 utc | 49
"...In Ukraine they have banned the Russian Orthodox Church, created the official state church, ...".
Roger@43
Just as they did in 1596 in Brest when they ragooned several bishoprics into communion with Rome and created the Uniate Church.
It speaks volumes of the support for Orthodoxy, and that is not a misnomer either, that Rome and its Imperial masters still go out of their way to persecute it.
Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 17:32 utc | 50
My understanding is that economic or any other sanctions against a fellow member of the United Nations can only be done as result of a UNSC resolution. Specifically, Chapter 7, Article 41.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_VII_of_the_United_Nations_Charter
Yes or no?
Does this mean western nations' sanctions against the Russian Federation are illegal under international law, as are any counter-sanctions?
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:37 utc | 51
@Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:37 utc | 61
Does this mean western nations' sanctions against the Russian Federation are illegal under international law, as are any counter-sanctions?
Yes, they are illegal under international law, but the West never gave a damn about international law when it comes to their own actions.
Posted by: bevin | May 31 2023 15:51 utc | 29
Moscow the third Rome with its seven hills. What a place. If anything to object to, its weather, but it is the capital of a universe, with the influence and presence of an incredible range of peoples, cultures, gastronomy, history, art, hard to imagine for westerners. And the way it has evolved and got out of the decaying 90's rut, at an incredible pace, at the same pace that US cities are degrading, and I think of San Francisco which I got to see and love for a few days way back in time. And the women, what else can be said. Moskva je t'aime.
Posted by: Paco | May 31 2023 17:49 utc | 53
@julien. you dont understand why Russia doesnt do X because you arent really trying to now are you? On the slim chance im wrong ill bite. The things you are having trouble understanding why Russia doesnt do certain things. Uts because those are NATO tactics and Russia isnt in NATO. Pretty simple eh?
Posted by: Tannenhouser | May 31 2023 17:50 utc | 54
I have a system for "independent" news organisations. I type "Assange" into their search engine. Usually I find nothing or very old stuff. That tells me all I need to know.
WhoWhatWhy hasn't covered the Assange case since 2020 and that was a pretty conventional retelling of the case that the Guardian or the NYT could be proud of.
Posted by: JulianJ | May 31 2023 17:51 utc | 55
Blinken announced new sanctions, part of which are reinvigorated actions against russian "mis/dis-information." Could be a good sign: things are going so badly for 404 that the truth is getting harder to hide...
Posted by: Peter b | May 31 2023 17:51 utc | 56
@58
us fighters mainly fly in pairs, wingman training.
ang units have more than enough full time much more experienced aircraft maintenance techs to generate sortie on days other than weekend drill.
and pilots can fly on week days, with about 15% being full time guard.
weekend drill is often filled with training to love transvestites rather than fly f16
Posted by: paddy | May 31 2023 17:52 utc | 57
We have now two (!) clips of Patriot missiles crashing into the ground.
One of the Patriot missiles dropped, seemingly without propulsion onto the bridge.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1663825725793742849
Another Patriot missile splashed with propulsion on straight to the water, next to the bridge.
https://t.me/ChDambiev/23853
It is quite obvious these Patriot missile system(s?) were protected around to protect the GUR building on the island in the middle of Dnepr river. And there was rumors that another one of those systems was taken out along with whatever hit GUR building or its basement.
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 17:53 utc | 58
Posted by: Roger | May 31 2023 17:46 utc | 62
Indeed. My post was somewhat sarcastic. I've yet to see any western mainstream media point out the illegality of sanctions.
I guess they don't dare. They are all owned by oligarchs, who have a vested interest.
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 17:54 utc | 59
https://t.me/llordofwar/149763
🇺🇦Arestovich in Israel tells how genocide and repression will take place against those who are objectionable in the event of the occupation of Crimea and the LDNR by Ukraine. For some reason, it’s normal for locals to listen to this, genetic memory does not work.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 18:00 utc | 60
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/31997
Fresh satellite from 25 and 30 May 2023.Either the SDG building was indeed hit very seriously and the bunker there collapsed, or they suddenly decided to make repairs and dug up a huge amount of earth right into the courtyard and car park.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/32002
❗️There are credible reports of foreign advisers among the casualties in the GUR building2 medical aircraft have flown from Poland to Berlin reportedly transporting wounded foreign personell
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 18:04 utc | 61
Posted by: Irish | May 31 2023 15:56 utc | 30
The world's gone mad. Gobshites and fuckheads and psychopaths are in charge.
James Kunstler's latest:
"Psychiatric meta-analysis estimates that 1.2 to 4.5 percent of the population displays psychopathic personality disorders. How that tiny fraction of the citizenry came to take charge of our affairs is surely the big mystery of the moment. My guess is that under conditions of economic-social-and-political collapse, the people who care about each other become preoccupied with their mutual caretaking duties while the psychopaths, unburdened by such cares, can go about other business — such as plunder, murder, and the sowing of chaos."
https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/memorial-service/
For a very good understanding of the bolded text above, read --
"Political Ponerology" by psychiatrist Andrew M. Lobaczewski, and
"Snakes in Suits" by Paul Babiak, Ph.D. & Robert D. Hare, Ph.D.
Posted by: AntiSpin | May 31 2023 18:04 utc | 62
@ America is defeated | May 31 2023 16:21 utc | 36
I blinked over this until I gave up:
"During the Cold War, editors admitted that they perceived themselves as 'on the same team' as the US government--but while such co-optation was at one time common, it is much rarer these days."
Cue the "Mightiest Wurlitzer" to "The Band Played On."
And remember: Information comes from or is approved by government, all else is disinformation.
Posted by: John Kennard | May 31 2023 18:06 utc | 63
but the West never gave a damn about international law when it comes to their own actions.
Posted by: Roger | May 31 2023 17:46 utc | 62
Allow me to fix that for you:
But governments never give a damn about laws when it comes to their own actions.
Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:07 utc | 64
It’s very likely that Gershkovich remained a Russian Citizen
Posted by: Exile | May 31 2023 18:09 utc | 65
Re: #48
Western delusion is so strong that even when reporting about a sane assessment they stick in nonsense:
"Last week, there were reports that Ukraine, following Russia, began to send mobilized people to the front without proper preparation."
Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 31 2023 18:11 utc | 66
Paco | May 31 2023 17:49 utc | 63
On February 3rd, 2022 the UN declared Moscow to be the best city in the world for quality of life and infrastructure. Since February 24th, 2022 I don't think I've heard anyone cite that fact.
I've never been to Moscow, but I do live a couple hours north of Rome...where I've been MANY times, and I can definitely vouch for the weather.
Bella ciao!
Posted by: john | May 31 2023 18:13 utc | 67
Clueless Joe | May 31 2023 14:50 utc | 12
To be precise, 6.5 mio for DC, 21.5 for Moscow. And indeed DC is a recent capital of a federal state, unlike Moscow, which is the monocephalic centralized heart of an ancient empire - so, like with Paris and London, Moscow is a truly macrocephalic gigantic capital which makes up a good chunk of the total population, and the 2nd most populous city is a mere fraction of the head's population - though it's still less pronounced in Russia than in Turkey, UK, France, or most of Latin America.
US on the other hand is closer to more federal decentralized states like Germany (even more so with the former West Germany), Spain, India or Switzerland - or to China even.
I hope this is satire !
Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | May 31 2023 18:18 utc | 68
Western delusion is so strong that even when reporting about a sane assessment they stick in nonsense:
Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 31 2023 18:11 utc | 77
-------------
As far as Russia is concerned that's alright, for more the delusion is there, its easy to overcome the fools.
Posted by: ostro | May 31 2023 18:23 utc | 69
Patrick Lancaster
With Russian DPR Special Forces Recon & Electronic Warfare Team On Ukraine Frontline Mission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVedU0sNo8
Posted by: jo6pac | May 31 2023 18:24 utc | 70
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 17:53 utc | 68
Nah. The Patriot M3 missile systems provided to the Ukraine (the ones with 16 missiles per battery) were based at the Kiev International airport. Reason being is that they are a distributed system, the radar bit (which glows like a sun when active), the missile batteries, and the command centre, must all be very much spread out, connected via cables. Needs a fairly large area.
Likely Russian missiles hit the radar, maybe nearby batteries.
The Ukie's SBU centre would have been in the extended range of Patriot.
Mind you, Patriot is not meant to take down drones. Just ask the Saudi's.
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:24 utc | 71
How that tiny fraction of the citizenry came to take charge of our affairs is surely the big mystery of the moment.
https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/memorial-service/
Simple
Alpha-male social hierarchy and might makes right - both gifts from nature. Man is still 99+% animal and shows it. That is why his atrocities are more horrific than nature's.
Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:26 utc | 72
It looks to me as if the Russians saw the makings of a coup
Does it look that way to anyone else?
Posted by: Clement | May 31 2023 18:27 utc | 84
Quite possibly.
Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:34 utc | 73
Posted by: Clement | May 31 2023 18:27 utc | 84
In the last days, we have heard that Zelensky and some of his deputies are being investigated for their role in "placing FSB agents in SBU key positions". That is, they have raised high treason investigations.
We have also seen (now) the retired general Krivonos blaming Zelensky about all the military setbacks. Zaluzhny has also blamed Zelensky for the absolute catastrophe UAF incurred with the Bakhmut strategy.
Game of Kiev coming soon, baby.
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 18:37 utc | 74
Posted by: JulianJ | May 31 2023 17:51 utc | 65
I'll do you a favour and point you at Consortium News, dedicated to the memory of one of those daring investigative reporters, Robert Parry, which no longer exist in mainstream media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)
Consortium News are big on Julian Assange.
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:42 utc | 75
From Hal Turner's recent article, "World War 3 Potential Kick-off Dates: June 12-24"
These scenarios seem way more plausible than a lot of his stuff, unfortunately for world peace.
Why else would NATO have such a huge air exercise right next to a war zone?
"The papers mailed to me indicate the following scenarios are in-planning:
SCENARIO "A"
1) Ukraine grants NATO permission to enter its air space to establish a nationwide no-fly zone. NATO agrees and enters.
2) Russia has already warned it will engage and destroy such foreign aircraft. Russia then does what it says it would do, NATO screams it has been "attacked by Russia" and it's on like Donkey Kong.
The papers mailed to me also include other scenarios:
SCENARIO "B"
A) "Ukrainian F-16's" enter the fight and launch attacks into actual Russia. Belgorad is the likely attack zone. But since there are no qualified Ukrainian Pilots, the planes will be piloted by British and American pilots.
B) Russia shoots down the planes either in Ukraine or inside Russia.
C) When the pilots are either captured alive, or killed in the fight, their bodies will prove they were British and American.
D) Russia declares they have been attacked by the US and NATO and declare war upon us. Again, it's on like Donkey Kong.
SCENARIO "C"
Includes both Scenario "A" and Scenario "B" above.
i) NATO is granted permission to enter Ukrainian air space to set up no-fly zone and NATO enters.
ii) Ukrainian F-16's enter Russia and attack.
iii) NATO planes warn incoming Russian defenders they cannot attack the Ukrainian planes or they will be hit by some 200 NATO planes.
iv) Russia tells both Ukraine and NATO what's what, and commences hitting all of them. It's on like Donkey Kong.
"
Posted by: TM | May 31 2023 18:46 utc | 76
@52: "He pointed out that "for Russians, human life means nothing, for Ukrainians every life is worth its weight in gold."
This reminds me very much of the talk in Vietnam and the Cold War era, where the speaker is trying to press a button to get those who experienced that era to react like Pavlov's dog to a bell. This is the first time (so far) that I've heard that bell being run in a very ham-handed fashion. What's next, a clarion to look out for "fellow travelers", "fifth columnists", and "pinkos"? I expect there will be an upgrade in virulence of the propaganda, at the level of George W. Bush's "if you're not for us, you're against us."
In the great book "American Hero" by Larry Beinhart (which became the basis for the film "Wag the Dog"), a director who has been asked to 'direct' America's future war in 1991 against Iraq asks his long-suffering assistant for a quick writeup about propaganda, but provides him with no details - basically, a command to write something that tells you everything you need to need to know about propaganda (but not too long).
The flunkie then creates this list for his Hollywood director master which is supposed to be a one-page, bullet-like summary of the "Zen of Propaganda". He then produces the following document.
(* * *)
Propaganda that looks like propaganda is third-rate propaganda.
WE are innocent. THEY are guilty.
WE tell the truth, inform. THEY lie, use propaganda.
WE defend ourselves. THEY are aggressors.
WE are law-abiding. THEY are criminals and outlaws.
WE respect our agreement and treaties and abide by international law. THEY are liars, cheaters, thieves and opportunists who break treaties.
WE are Peace Keepers. Our use of force is a police action to protect law and order. THEY are violent, gangsters, a criminal band.
WE stand for justice and civil rights. THEY brutalize, repress, tyrannize both their own and their neighbors.
OUR LEADERS govern with the consent of the people. THEIR LEADERS are usurpers with no popular support who will eventually be overthrown.
The enemy commits torture, atrocity, and murder because he is a sadist who enjoys killing.
We use surgical or strategic violence only because we are forced to by the enemy.
Killing is justified so long as one does not take pleasure in it and it is done in a clean manner -- preferably from an antiseptic distance -- the saturation bombing and the free-fire zones in Vietnam were legitimate, the face-to-face slaughter in My Lai was a war crime.
As a popular passion producer, experience indicates that there is nothing quite like the atrocity story.
"This war is a war, as I see it, against barbarism.... We are fighting against a nation which, in the fashion of centuries ago, drags the inhabitants of conquered lands into slavery, which carries off women and girls for even worse purposes, which in its mad desire to conquer mankind and trample them under foot as stopped at no wrong, has regarded no treaty....What we want most of all by this victory which we shall win is to secure the world's peace, broad based on freedom and democracy...."
-- Senator Henry Cabot Lodge, to the American Senate, April 4, 1917
Propaganda in America is far more successful than anyone thinks it is.
Its achievement is what is not spoken, not talked about, not even thought. Even its invisibility is strength, its impossible to counter-attack inaction.
For purposes of making your war look just, the most reliable device is the self-defense thesis.
In general, you should seem to prove what people already believe, and to justify what they already want to do.
(* * *)
It is revealed later in the book that the following quote from Sam Keen's Faces of the Enemy would not make the cut.
"Notice, the undertone beneath the self-justification in all propaganda is the whining voice of the child: 'He did it to me first -- I only hit him back.'"
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | May 31 2023 18:49 utc | 77
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:42 utc | 88
Apologies, not Ukraine related, but I felt the need to provide education :(
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 18:49 utc | 78
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 17:53 utc | 68 "We have now two (!) clips of Patriot missiles crashing into the ground."
Spent booster sections. The pointy front part, nose cone, guidance and then warhead seem to be elsewhere.
Posted by: Tim2 | May 31 2023 18:57 utc | 79
Cell networks going down could be a lot of things. Collateral bomb damage. Execs and maintenance staff deciding this is the time to head for Poland. Too many players who could have motive and means. There is likely some significance but all guesswork.
Posted by: oldhippie | May 31 2023 18:59 utc | 80
Trolling:
https://t.me/ukraine_watch/3457
In Krivoy Rog, Ukraine, "concerned Nazis" are looking for absolute madmen who blasted the USSR anthem in broad daylight.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/48528
Mobile communications went down in Ukraine yesterday. Vodafone and Kyivstar operators stopped working. And this morning subscribers received SMS "Welcome to Russia".
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 19:09 utc | 81
so the sinking of the last ukr navy is a sign that they will soon wont have any need for any?
Posted by: Macpott | May 31 2023 19:11 utc | 82
Related to previous post and “.. (reports of) 2 medical aircraft have flown from Poland to Berlin reportedly transporting wounded foreign personnel”?
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/48527
Berlin announced the closure of four out of five Russian consulates in the country "in response to Moscow's measures."Germany will also close its consulates in Kaliningrad, Novosibirsk and Yekaterinburg during the reduction of the German presence in Russia.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 19:16 utc | 83
Berlin set to close consulates in three Russian cities by November — diplomat
"The German government made the decision to close by this November its consulates general in the Russian cities of Yekaterinburg, Kaliningrad and Novosibirsk, after Moscow’s earlier decision to cap Germany’s diplomatic staff stationed in Russia at no more than 350 people, a German diplomat said on Wednesday.
On May 27, German daily Suddeutsche Zeitung reported, citing sources, that hundreds of German diplomats, teachers and staff of the Goethe Cultural Center working in Russia would leave the country by the end of May.
The newspaper attributed the staffing cuts to Moscow's decision to cap the number of employees of German institutions in Russia at a maximum of 350 people. Among those who reportedly would have to leave the country are diplomats and cultural representatives, including teachers and staff of the Goethe Cultural Center.
Later, on May 27, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told the DPA news agency that Moscow had acted in response to Berlin’s anti-Russian steps, but did not initiate any unfriendly actions on its own. She pointed out that the German Foreign Ministry took steps that were kept secret from the public and had previously denied that Berlin was expelling Russian diplomats, who nevertheless returned to Russia.
On May 29, Zakharova stated that Russia would respond "very tangibly" to any new steps Germany might take to reduce Russia’s diplomatic presence in the country.
She stressed that Russia had introduced quotas on the number of employees at German foreign missions as a retaliatory move, but Berlin can decide on its own which members of its staff will have to leave their posts. It was Berlin that took the first steps to reduce Russia’s diplomatic presence, she emphasized."
TASS
Posted by: consulates | May 31 2023 19:22 utc | 84
@Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 31 2023 18:07 utc | 75
But governments never give a damn about laws when it comes to their own actions.
Maybe true for large powers, but its the West that continuously prattles on about their own virtue and how bad others are, while easily being the biggest law breakers, and not even following their own stated "rules" . Smaller nations cannot ignore international law, as the stronger powers can use that to punish them (e.g. the ICC and other Western-dominated legal apparatus such as the WTO, plus the UNSC).Your statement is basically following neorealism, which assumes that all states are the same. which is most definitely false.
With respect to China (and this may change over time) they have made very specific statements about non-interference in other nation's domestic affairs (i.e. respecting the nature of sovereignty as defined in the UN Charter) and their policies tend to reflect that. This is serving them very well, as seen recently in the Middle East. If the West had followed such laws much more their elites may be somewhat less wealthy, but they would be much more positively viewed by the rest of the world.
Another video released from Zaporozhye direction today, fuel and lubricant storage burning.
https://t.me/sharednewsby/2954
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 19:27 utc | 86
Posted by: consulates | May 31 2023 19:22 utc | 98
Given that the German political technocrats have willingly thrown themselves into the NATO (US) proxy war in the Ukraine vs. the Russian Federation, I see no reason why Russians would want anything to do with German culture.
Bit like asking Palestinians to accept Zionism, yes?
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 19:34 utc | 87
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 31 2023 18:34 utc | 86
"Why would Russia want to thwart a coup in Kiev?"
Because Russia doesn't want to be squeezed into a cease fire or truce until the nazis in Kiev, Washington, Brussels and London are completely wrecked.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 31 2023 19:36 utc | 88
TM@89... Russia can ill afford to wait for NATO to enter Ukie air space, any of those planes or all could launch nuclear weapons. The respective countries will be engaged, long before all the planes are shot down, that is the only way this ends....
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 19:36 utc | 89
@11
Why doesn't russia and Iran attack the US in syria?
Well let's add up the damage they do there, which isn't much the lost oil hurts and its enough black market cash to keep enough people happy. But it's pretty small and al tanf is watched closely and isn't a good place to exert power.
So removing that doesn't hurt the US much even if they lost hundreds of soldiers.
But who would pay a price? Syria, the US would first move to strike water power and communications and plunge syria back into the dark days of 2015. They would send a bunch of atgm and manpads into idlib to shoot at russian military assets(and syrias).
Then they would back up their pet protesters in Iran with these individual sized missles, which as we've seen can cause endless losses to expensive vehicles and crews.
Then it would get worse.
So, Iran russia and syria have to suffer it, as the least expensive option.
That can't change until America is fighting russia or China directly with its own troops, hence they wouldn't be able to focus on these exposed positions.
Oh and the US has hostages in al tanf, for whatever that's worth.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 31 2023 19:37 utc | 90
Paco 37
No Putin's verbose explanation shows that he is delusional.anglos controlled west wants Russia and any other strong nation destroyed because they are not Anglos no and not because the new Russia is not capitalist which it is
English pirate race is running a world wars against all non Anglo races therefore world must unite to kill pirate English nation .
Quote. "karlof1 | May 29 2023 16:29 utc | 19
thanks karl.. i liked this quote from putin in your link.
"You can't, as they say, give out wishful thinking. By the way, the so-called collective West has largely fallen into such a trap and in its actions proceeds from the fact that there is no alternative to their model of liberal globalism. And this model – let's"
Posted by: Sam | May 31 2023 19:51 utc | 91
Russia sinks Ukraine’s ‘last warship’ – MOD, 31 May
The Russian military has destroyed Ukraine’s “last warship,” the Yury Olefirenko, in a high-precision airstrike, the Defense Ministry in Moscow said on Wednesday.(GOOG returns 0 results for "May 29, 2023 Russia sinks Ukraine ship")“On May 29, as a result of a strike by a high-precision weapon of the Russian Aerospace Forces on a warship mooring in the port of Odessa, the last warship of the Naval Forces of Ukraine, the Yury Olefirenko, was destroyed,” the ministry stated in a report shared on its Telegram channel.
A day earlier, war correspondent Andrey Rudenko also reported that the Yury Olefirenko had been sunk after a series of overnight airstrikes on military facilities in Odessa, citing Ukrainian sources.
Rudenko claimed that a fire had broken out on the deck of the vessel, which is said to have caused the detonation of ammunition in the hold. The journalist said that significant losses had been reported among the crew.
Ukrainian officials have yet to confirm the sinking of the ship. Oleg Chalyk, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian Navy, told Reuters
that he would not respond to Russian claims, and that the Ukrainian Navy would not disclose the details of any losses.Accordingly, "state-controlled" UA news have agreed this event never occurred.
Ukrinform: 0 notice, 25-31 May
Ukranews: 0 notice, 25-31 May
Ironically, unlike Ukrinform, Ukranews has been intensely interested in RFN deployment in the Black Sea. In the period, the headline count of "combat ships on duty" ranges 3-7—embellish with suspiciously precise detail. For example (30 May)
As of 11:30 a.m., Tuesday, May 30, Russia is holding 7 ships on combat duty in the Black Sea, including 4 carriers of Kalibr cruise missiles with a total salvo of up to 34 missiles. The command of the Naval Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine announced this, Ukrainian News Agency reports.without reference, as is the custom, to UA Navy assets in service in any sea."In the Black Sea there are 7 enemy ships on combat duty, of which 4 carriers of Kalibr cruise missiles, a total salvo - up to 34 missiles; in the Sea of Azov - 1 enemy ship; in the Mediterranean Sea, up to 7 enemy ships are on combat duty, of which 1 carrier of Kalibr cruise missiles, a total salvo - up to 4 missiles," the report said.
During the day, in the interests of the Russian Federation, the following passed along the Kerch-Yenikal Strait:
- 18 ships to the Sea of Azov, of which 4 continued to move from the Bosphorus Strait;
- 20 ships to the Black Sea, of which 9 continued towards the Bosphorus Strait.As Ukrainian News Agency earlier reported, as of the morning of May 29, there were 6 enemy ships in the Black Sea, including 2 carriers of Kalibr cruise missiles with a total salvo of up to 16 missiles
Posted by: sln2002 | May 31 2023 19:56 utc | 92
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 19:09 utc | 95
That's double trolling since the USSR and Russia's anthem's music is the same, only the lyrics were changed. Besides, today Akhmat commanders discussed taking Krivoy Rog, the birth place of Zelensky, maybe both events are related.
Posted by: Paco | May 31 2023 20:00 utc | 93
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 19:27 utc | 100
RF MoD has fought a very strong logistics / counter-logistics battle, a project planning and management operation. I guess it’s partly a visibility bias in that ammo and fuel dumps going up often produce internet videos that demonstrate what progress is being made.
On the other hand, the effect of all those strikes on Ukraine’s electricity grid are harder to assess. UA’s railways seem to operate well enough for rail yards even now to be targeted for stockpiles of materiel. Was the electricity grid a better choice than, say, systematically going after all UA’s railway locomotives. By what criteria were hits on the electricity grid begun and subsequently halted.
Perhaps combined with the loss of ZNPP there is an energy-politics dimension that is not being fitted into the frame with the elements that are most often discussed, even here.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 31 2023 20:01 utc | 94
@ Paul from Norway | May 31 2023 17:00 utc | 52
"For Russians, human life means nothing, for Ukrainians every life is worth its weight in gold."
This was easily as stomach-turning as the American generals going on during Vietnam about "the Asiatic contempt for human life."
Unless he meant gold to the hands-out crowd from DC to Kiev.
Posted by: John Kennard | May 31 2023 20:02 utc | 95
Dima reported that RUAF managed to hit the HQ of UAF 33rd mech brigade, one of the newly Nato armed brigades which was deployed close to the front in Zaporozhye region. So even by not attacking they are losing coherency and efficiency.
Also Belgorovka may be captured in some weeks. UAF formations around Bakhmut have still tried to maintain their positions near Klischeevka, Dubovo-Vasylivka and north of Soledar, but those areas are in RUAF fire control and they are too weak to launch meaningful counterattacks, also more fortifications are already created in those areas.
Posted by: unimperator | May 31 2023 20:03 utc | 96
On the speculation of a coup, it'd the Maericans in my estimation who would most likely be interested in stopping any revolt by the UAF and others as any such initiative would be to stop the bleeding of Ukraine and would negate their investment in proxy forces. It's unlikely any other coup scenario would happen without specific Maerican support. To the last Ukrainian it is.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 31 2023 20:03 utc | 97
The most hilarious entry by far (so far this week) was submitted by Ukrinform.
Russia makes attempts to mask Crimea Bridge – UK intel
...The use of a smoke screen by the Russian army in the war against Ukraine has generally been ineffectual because of a lack of a strong central planning function. The relevant statement was made by the Ministry of Defence of the United Kingdom on Twitter, referring to the latest Defence Intelligence update, an Ukrinform correspondent reports....very science-y!
Posted by: sln2002 | May 31 2023 20:06 utc | 98
Zero Hedge says "Russia now says it is in the process of evacuating families and hundreds of children from villages in the border region, calling the situation "alarming" . . "We are starting today to evacuate children from the Shebekino and Graivoron districts"
With the attacks on Moscow, on Crimea, on Russian strategic air bases, and now evacuations taking place on Russian borders due to heavy shelling, I have to wonder what Russia public opinion thinks about Putin's handling of the war. Say what you will about this not having any military significance, you cannot deny that it has major political significance. I would think the nationalists in Russia are livid; surely there must be intense political pressure on Putin do do more than continue a war of attrition?
Posted by: Perimetr | May 31 2023 20:08 utc | 99
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 31 2023 19:36 utc | 103
Are you suggesting western nations are about to initiate nuclear war against the country that has more, and better strategic nuclear missiles?
Does the US or any other NATO country have anything like the Yars or Satan missile systems? Hypersonic missiles like the Avangard, let alone Khinzals or Zircons? The Russian Strategic Missile Force has been on high alert for quite a while, note they did not appear on the May 9th Victory parade. That's the Russians sending a message there.
Russians have a preponderance in artillery in this proxy war. Traditionally, two-thirds of soldiers that die in a near-peer conflict are due to shelling.
Russia is winning, They have industrial warfare on their side. NATO is too embedded in their own needs, and as usual they have no exit plan since that would mean a collapse of western 'democratic' power structures that led us all into this war.
Posted by: Ant. | May 31 2023 20:11 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
A Dutch friend just arrived in St Petersburg for a few weeks' visit. This is what she writes:
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 31 2023 13:57 utc | 1