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May 28, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-129
Comments
LUKASHENKO: (today. So not poisoned by Putin last week)
“If Kazakhstan joins Union State of Russia and Belarus, there will be nukes for everyone – Belarusian President Lukashenko in response to Kazakh Prez Tokayev’s concerns that Moscow and Minsk are now sharing nuclear weapons.”
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/31771
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 12:17 utc | 301
Sal | May 29 2023 11:20 utc | 278
Shadowbanned said that the Brits deliberately partitioned India to weaken it. That was not true. They wanted to keep it intact.
I know the history, and I used wiki because it was concise and basically correct. Even a stopped clock like wiki is right twice a day.
“because you are from that stock”
I think that’s taking racial determinism a little too far. Something can be true even if a Brit says it.
“mit der Dummheit kämpfen die Götter selbst vergebens”
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 12:20 utc | 302
Turkey will not quit NATO but will join BRICs- they are not stupid.
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 29 2023 12:11 utc | 302
Thank you, the main thing Turkey needs now is to stay out of Uncle Sugars control, the empire will turn it into Ukraine if it gets the chance.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 12:23 utc | 303
The strikes which disabled five UAF planes – I’ll be sounding like Shadowbanned, but I’m surprised any airfields in Ukraine are still viable. Can’t they keep holing the runways and scattering debris all over them, or is it not considered the most efficient use of missiles?
If those planes are themselves launching missiles, I’d have thought airfields should be a priority.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 12:26 utc | 304
Mike Jones, iEarlGrey is interviewed by George Galloway on his MOATS program.
For Mike, jump to about 49ms in.
There’s an interview about the Turkish election prior.
https://www.youtube.com/@GeorgeGallowayOfficial
>… TURKEY SPEAKS – MOATS Episode 242 with George Galloway
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 12:30 utc | 305
@ 274
On india partition
A) the british favored the expression of a muslim political group since 1890. Divide to reign is their moto.
British ruled four countries that where partitioned when they leaved: india, cyprus, Israel and ireland.
Posted by: Baile | May 29 2023 12:32 utc | 306
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 12:26 utc | 306
Most likely using missiles on runways or even airbase facilities might not be considered worth it. Runways can be repaired or flattened with relative ease. Hitting the machines and supplies is pretty much all that matters.
Posted by: unimperator | May 29 2023 12:34 utc | 307
Russian Army attacked the airfields of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (APU) with high-precision air-based weapons, the objects were destroyed.
“Tonight, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation launched a group strike with long-range precision air-launched weapons against enemy targets at airfields. The purpose of the strike was achieved. All designated targets were destroyed.”
The defense ministry clarified that as a result of the strike, command posts, radar posts, aviation equipment, storage facilities with weapons and ammunition of the Ukrainian army were hit.
In addition, the Russian forces hit a hangar with weapons and equipment of the Armed Forces of the Territorial Defense Brigade near the village of Berislav, Kherson region.
-Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov
Posted by: ostro | May 29 2023 12:39 utc | 308
I’m surprised any airfields in Ukraine are still viable.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 12:26 utc | 306
—
Soviet doctrine motivated airfield redundancy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ukrainian_airbases
Posted by: too scents | May 29 2023 12:40 utc | 309
@ 279.
Occidental view.
Living in India as a foreigner a sense rises that they share 30 000 years of joined neolithic culture.
The north was dravidian.also in 7000 bc. (Pre- mohendaro).
India fared quite united, with an harmony of many small corrupt parts. Analysis don’t reach easily the core of behaviour, particularly in old and religious cultures.
Posted by: Baile | May 29 2023 12:44 utc | 310
That’s what happened in the night, https://z.mil.ru/spec_mil_oper/brief/briefings/more.htm?id=12468783@egNews
What happened in the morning today is yet to be officially told…but, most probably the 2nd US Patriot AA system is destroyed…hmm, damaged…
Posted by: ostro | May 29 2023 12:44 utc | 311
Did anyone else see the video purporting to show that the roadway across the Kakhovka Dam -upstream of Zaporizhie Energodar Nuclear Power Plant- has been cut by Russian missiles?
It may have been somone’s link provided in a post here. Either way it appears to show Ukrainian troops filming the break in the barrage wall where a road once passed. Water is torrenting downstream over the breach, but to my mind it is still anti-climactic.
You will remember that one of the purported reasons for the Russian withdrawal from Kherson was Russian Chief of Staffs’ view that the Ukrainians could both cut the road and thus stop Russians supplying the Left Bank of the Dneiper ie all of Crimea and Kherson and also breach the dam wall and flood Russian positions close to Kherson.
So why then did the Russians breach the road and the dam wall now? Are they expecting mass troops or supplies all of a sudden?
Posted by: Boy | May 29 2023 12:46 utc | 312
CoCa:
In Kiev, several dozen people were detained for filming arrivals and air defense work. Since these videos actually exposed various lies of Zelensky’s gang, they detain in general everyone who was shooting and posting videos on the networks. Well, except for Klitschko, who recorded the fall of a fragment of a Patriot rocket on a moving car.
Posted by: Jounkov | May 29 2023 12:48 utc | 313
@280 “Budanov constantly promotes himself, but they don’t want to install him – he’s too frostbitten and narcissistic, several times he put Western curators in an uncomfortable position.”
The fight for militar (or political) power now in Ukraine, under the faraway control of Usa reminds me of Darlan, Giraud and De Gaulle in 1943 1944.
Budanov seems sympathetical described as above.
Posted by: Baile | May 29 2023 13:05 utc | 314
Posted by: zeke2u | May 29 2023 11:52 utc | 295
Maybe reading would cure your ignorance…
https://www.wsws.org/en/special/library/in-defense-of-leon-trotsky/00.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/special/library/fi-15-2/00.html
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm The Revolution Betrayed
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1937/dewey/index.htm The case of Leon Trotsky
https://www.wsws.org/en/special/library/trotskyism-versus-stalinism/speech.html Trotskyism v Stalinism
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1937/09/life.htm I stake my life
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm Problem of the Ukraine
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1940/05/stalin.htm Stalin wants me dead
https://www.marxists.org/archive/sedova-natalia/1940/08/20.htm How it happened. Natalia Sedova
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm Fascism. What it is and how to fight it
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | May 29 2023 13:07 utc | 315
The strikes which disabled five UAF planes – I’ll be sounding like Shadowbanned, but I’m surprised any airfields in Ukraine are still viable. Can’t they keep holing the runways and scattering debris all over them, or is it not considered the most efficient use of missiles?
If those planes are themselves launching missiles, I’d have thought airfields should be a priority.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 12:26 utc | 306
It’s not efficient. It’s easier to shoot them down when they fly.
That is, at least it was until the UK gave them the Storm Shadows. Now it became necessary to destroy the bases.
Also, Belarus plays a key role here. Remember three key facts:
1) How the SMO began
2) How it continued
3) What happened last week.
The SMO started with RU straight up entering UA from Belarus. And everything was good for the first few weeks.
But then progress stalled and after the pull out from Zhytomyr, Kiev and Chernigov, Belarus territory has not been used for kinetic action. A-50 AWACS planes and MiG-31s have flown from there, but that’s it (I don’t think the MiG-31s ever engaged anything from Belarussian airspace)
Why? Because Lukashenko got cold feet about further involvement after seeing how easily RU abandoned that territory and how the war ended up being stalemate. He feared that if he allowed kinetic action from Belarus territory, Belarus will be attacked, with no protection. And Belarus needs protection, because it is not Russia, i.e. NATO can attack it directly, and if there are no real security guarantees from Moscow, it will be in big trouble. Ukraine is now very powerful and dangerous too.
Then last week Lukashenko finally got his nukes. Which gave him the security he wanted, and this means that Belarus territory presumably can now be used again. Which is enormously important for controlling what happens in western Ukraine. Russia can’t shoot down planes flying over western Ukraine from Russian territory — it is too far for both S-400s and R-37Ms. But it can from Belarus, and once the F-16 and other Western planes enter the picture, that capability will be critical. Perhaps we may even finally see attacks on military equipment in transit — a lot of damage can be done from just across the border with Kh-59s all the way to Lvov, Ternopol, Khmelnytskyi and Vinnytsia. And another ground force operation from Belarus might also come eventually.
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 29 2023 13:12 utc | 316
Well, except for Klitschko, who recorded the fall of a fragment of a Patriot rocket on a moving car.
Posted by: Jounkov | May 29 2023 12:48 utc | 315
No worries, they of course claimed it was a Russian missile:
https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1663151871274491910
⚡️ The moment of the fall of the debris of the russian rocket in Kyiv was recorded on a video surveillance camera.
The vast majority of people of course don’t know the difference.
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 29 2023 13:15 utc | 317
Then last week Lukashenko finally got his nukes. Which gave him the security he wanted,
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 29 2023 13:12 utc | 318
I’d assume that one of the primary reasons for deploying nukes in Belarus (if they are deployed) is because Poland and Ukraine said they will support “armed revolution” inside Belarus and oust Lukashenko. That’s only possible by sending sort of infiltration groups from Poland or Ukraine, or even launching direct attack with their uniform military, which constitutes direct attack.
Another reason is the Nato intense recon and exercise around Kaliningrad and Belarus borders.
It is supposed to deter Poles from attempting it – will it work?
Posted by: unimperator | May 29 2023 13:31 utc | 318
Is Prigozhin now the darling of the ISW? Do they believe he is the key to the coveted regime change? Do they plan to indict him for war crimes once he has served his purpose?
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 29 2023 13:41 utc | 319
The second French general in a week expresses the opinion that the provision of F-16 aircraft to Ukraine is a distraction from the loss of Bakhmut, which is not capable of affecting the course of the war.
General Dominique Delavarde is a reputable geneoal, he served as commander of various elite infantry units in the French Foreign Legion and in the mountain troops, performed high-level intelligence-related assignments in France and in foreign countries. He was one of the commanders, and then the head of the UN intelligence agency in Lebanon. He is an officer of the Order of the Legion of Honor, a Chevalier of the National Order of Merit and was
awarded the U.S. Distinguished Service Medal.
“I share the opinion of General Pinatetel, whom I know well and whose views correspond to mine. I don’t think F-16 fighters will be provided quickly. It will be several months before the first F-16s appear in the Ukrainian skies, as we need time to train Ukrainian pilots. By themselves, the F-16 fighters are long obsolete, and they are unlikely to turn the tide on the front line. Of course, this is an initiative of the United States, this is their attempt to divert attention from the loss of Bakhmut.”
According to Mr. Delavarde, what is happening in Ukraine is only part of the global struggle against Western hegemony. Delavarde believes that the war in Ukraine is a struggle for a multipolar world, in which Russia performs better than Western countries:
“I don’t think that taking Bakhmut is the main key to victory. I think that the fighting in Ukraine is a small part of what is happening in the world. We are witnessing a global confrontation that goes beyond the military conflict between Russia and Ukraine. We are witnessing a war between two camps: countries advocating multipolarity and the US and NATO camps. So Ukraine is only a small part of what is happening.”
The general believes that Russia’s strategy in the war is justified and it should not rush, since time is on its side and the West is greatly weakened by the war. The French military also predicts that the war in Ukraine will most likely end in 2024:
“The economy of the West is severely weakened, so Russia is doing the right thing by taking its time. Firstly, she saves her strength, and secondly, time works for her. Every day the West is getting weaker, so the balance of power is now in favor of Russia. I do not believe that peace will be achieved before 2024. I think that the results of the war in Ukraine will play a decisive role in the US presidential election. I think that in November 2024 there will be light at the end of the tunnel. The processes that we are observing in different parts of the world: South America, Africa and Asia show that Russia has made the right bet on a global confrontation with the West.”
Reflecting on the role of Ukraine in global processes, Dominique Delavarde says that she is only “cannon fodder of the West” against Russia. At the same time, the general notes that not all people in the West share anti-Russian views, emphasizing that the West is run by “corrupt elites” who are trying to maintain US dominance at the expense of the war in Ukraine:
“I think that Ukraine is the cannon fodder of the West. But I want to note that it is not cannon fodder for the entire West, but only for its government. A neo-conservative government that is in power to maintain US hegemony. This is a small layer of people that governs the planet. The current leadership of Ukraine is corrupt, as well as the leadership of the West. I think that when Zelensky and his patrons lose power, the problem will be partially solved.”
https://stratpol.com/la-russie-joue-la-montre-les-usa-detournent-lattention/
https://t.me/rezident_ua/18030
Posted by: Down South | May 29 2023 13:47 utc | 320
Nothing has undemined people’s trust in the legal system as effectively as these international criminal law cretins.
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 29 2023 13:47 utc | 321
Ukrainians beat Kiev regime military man for attempting to conscript them:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/lONevkBP7REu/
Posted by: Nate | May 29 2023 2:48 utc | 200
Many thanks Nate. Here’s another one in line with resisting “recruitment”. (Posted in Feb 2023)
They’re Not Having It: Commissars Tried To Recruit The Wrong Leopard Drivers And Got ROCKED
https://www.bitchute.com/video/bVfogzCW4ygE/
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 29 2023 13:49 utc | 322
Posted about Kinzhal manoeuvrability earlier for oldhippie and others but that post seems lost so I’ll quickly recap the salient points again, assuming I haven’t gone blind!
Here’s an article on Kinzhal production increase: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/quintupled-kinzhal-production-patriotstrike
At the top right there is a small insert photograph of a parked aircraft with a Kinzhal slung under it. Zoom right in and note what appears to be a stowed but deployable aerodynamic element of about half the length of the body, excluding the long nose cone.
I see no evidence of thrust vectoring side ports or micro rockets of the sort used by patriot PAC3, just conventional manoeuvring fins at the rear of the missile, also seen in the photograph.
Assuming the photograph is a genuine image of Kinzhal, I would say it shows quite clearly a large deployable aerodynamic maneuvering surface, a wing or winglet, the thickness of which speaks to the extreme forces it is intended to develop when trading velocity for change in direction,
Arguments about “turning circle” are geometrically challenged. At extreme velocities even a small angular deflection will produce an enormous change transverse velocity and cumulative distance across the field of view of any would-be interceptor.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 29 2023 13:50 utc | 323
Boy | May 29 2023 12:46 utc | 314
Your need to watch WEEB UNION yt.
>>… Bakhmut Endgame | Heavy Night Assaults | Ukrainian Bridge Destroyed | Bakhmut Front Update 17/05/23
@1m35secs.
Explains the bridge. Vid. Significance.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 13:50 utc | 324
The next requirement of the IMF was adopted in the Rada, helped, as always, by the deputies of the Opposition Platform for Life – 227 votes.
The law provides for the abolition of tax benefits for groups 1 and 2; resumption of documentary checks; refund of penalties for violation of the use of cash registers.
All this during the war with Russia means only one thing, they decided to bury business in Ukraine completely!
It is worth adding that these are not the last initiatives from our “partners”, tax increases and social cuts are ahead!
https://t.me/rezident_ua/18033
Posted by: Down South | May 29 2023 13:50 utc | 325
In the British press, media and establishment there is a tendency to vilify Russia, Russians and everything Russian. It borders on the Nazi IMO and I have condemned it – and as a Brit I am entitled to. Free speech [just] survives in the anglosphere.
However among many commentators here and elsewhere there is an increasing tendency to vilify Britain, the British and everything British in the same way – ascribing to us poor Brits many of the same characteristics that some do with Israel, the Jews and Zionism. Not me BTW.
I think those that do so need to calm down. The British establishment is certainly out of control IMHO, but the vast majority of Brits just want a quiet life. Alas, they are fed an unrelenting media diet of pure propaganda so are ill informed – to say the least.
We are maybe a unique but proud nation – or at least used to be – but no one I know thinks we are a world power any more. Britain controls sweet FA, including most of the things that go on within its shores. At present it is – again IMHO – cosying up to the USA having post-Brexit burnt its bridges with the EUSSR – but that is only to be expected. USA “bend over, Uk “how far…”
We have a high regard for our armed forces but have not fought a serious war since 1945. We are learning the hard way that professionalism and special force expertise does not really cut it against a mass eurasian army equipped with Grad and 152mm hoitzers et al, and supplied with copious amounts of reloads. I guess the establishment is in the denial stage just now, maybe getting angry.
But anyway, the Brits are not the problem, but our establishment certainly might be. However please remember this when criticising British Establishment policy and actions.
Posted by: marcjf | May 29 2023 13:54 utc | 326
The Ukrainian counter-offensive has already started.💪 Five guys have already taken back 1km of ground outside Bakhmut.
Wagner is gone, so taking ground from the Russians is easy. No. Not easy. But. Well.
Have some France24 in English. Journos Embedded with a 24year old in command.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCeMyZnaNdY
>…Ukraine counteroffensive: France 24 reports from the frontline near Bakhmut • FRANCE 24 English
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 13:56 utc | 327
Thank you all for returning to Ukraine as the main topic that sustains this thread.
Five Russian airplanes downed. It may have been a comment in a Simplicius thread, which hews closer to combat operations, pointing to IFF shortfalls, not uncommon, and friendly fire downing the Russian planes.
Most plausible to me.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | May 29 2023 13:56 utc | 328
@Down South
why keep referring to the city of Artemovsk by the Ukrainian nickname of bakhmut?
Posted by: A.cagliostro | May 29 2023 14:04 utc | 329
reply to 324
Thank you for posting those. It is a very positive development that tends to show Ukr. men as worthy of life, not just brainless lumps of flesh willing to be killed in a futile conflict. It offers a glimmer of hope.
Posted by: Eighthman | May 29 2023 14:07 utc | 330
Posted about Kinzhal manoeuvrability earlier for oldhippie and others but that post seems lost so I’ll quickly recap the salient points again, assuming I haven’t gone blind!
Here’s an article on Kinzhal production increase: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/quintupled-kinzhal-production-patriotstrike
At the top right there is a small insert photograph of a parked aircraft with a Kinzhal slung under it. Zoom right in and note what appears to be a stowed but deployable aerodynamic element of about half the length of the body, excluding the long nose cone.
I see no evidence of thrust vectoring side ports or micro rockets of the sort used by patriot PAC3, just conventional manoeuvring fins at the rear of the missile, also seen in the photograph.
Assuming the photograph is a genuine image of Kinzhal, I would say it shows quite clearly a large deployable aerodynamic maneuvering surface, a wing or winglet, the thickness of which speaks to the extreme forces it is intended to develop when trading velocity for change in direction,
Arguments about “turning circle” are geometrically challenged. At extreme velocities even a small angular deflection will produce an enormous change transverse velocity and cumulative distance across the field of view of any would-be interceptor.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 29 2023 13:50 utc | 325
I presume that you are referring to the narrow rectangular section along the body of the missile. It certainly does resemble the deployable wings on a Tomahawk cruise missile. However; I would expect any hypersonic missile to have a Delta wing with an extreme sweep of about fifteen degrees. That will not yield a large wing area. However; at hypersonic velocities it could generate considerable maneuvering accelerations. Ditto for the control fins. However; I question the ability of all of these surfaces to survive the aerodynamic hearing at hypersonic velocities. I believe that it is much more plausible that these surfaces are intended to guide the missile during the boost phase.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 14:07 utc | 331
So Mr. Erdogan has won the election in Turkey.
It’s only a matter of time before America starts crying about a stolen election and launches a “Stop the Steal” campaign in Turkey to regime change Mr. Erdogan. 😉
Posted by: ak74 | May 29 2023 14:15 utc | 332
Posted by: A.cagliostro | May 29 2023 14:04 utc | 331
I post TG updates from Ukrainian channels too not just Russian ones.
Posted by: Down South | May 29 2023 14:19 utc | 333
Judging by the sweep back angle of the aerodynamic surfaces at the tail, it is obvious that they are intended for use at about Mach 2. Once again, this suggests aerodynamic surfaces for use during the boost phase. If this missile is intended to maintain hypersonic velocity during reentry, it would jettison the cylindrical portion of the missile after of the conical nose. You can clearly see a seam where it would separate. I can think of some mechanisms for maneuvering that would not require extended control surfaces
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 14:20 utc | 334
Posted by: bevin | May 29 2023 2:11 utc | 193
***”bevin | May 28 2023 23:21 utc | 145
“You’re responding to someone you used a racial slur just yesterday so I doubt he appreciates your points” Cynic@151
Are you saying that I used a racist slur against TomQ?
Please explain what you mean.
What was the ‘slur’?
Where did I make it?
So far as I know I never employ racist arguments, insults or ‘slurs.
Nor do I make accusations without evidence.***
There’s been more identity hijacking … I did not make the post in question.
Posted by: Cynic | May 29 2023 14:21 utc | 335
ak74 | May 29 2023 14:15 utc | 334
Stolen from twitter:
BREAKING: Despite Erdogan’s victory in the latest Türkish elections, Juan Guaido has declared himself the interim President of Türkiye.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 14:21 utc | 336
“Lord give me the Patience to endure the things I cannot change,
And the courage to change the things I cannot endure.”
Posted by: GT Stroller | May 29 2023 8:30 utc | 235
… and the wisdom to know the difference …
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 29 2023 14:23 utc | 338
HEY YOU A WORKING CLASS UKRAINIAN HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THAT WESTERN AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS THAT STOP RUSSIANS FROM BOMBING YOUR HOSPITALS ARE ACTUALLY A FORM OF WESTERN ZIONIST IMPERIALISM?!? JUST SURRENDER NOW TO THE INEVITABLE TRIUMPH OF PUTIN’S OH-SO-VERY-SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION!!!
Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | May 29 2023 14:30 utc | 339
“British ruled four countries that where partitioned when they leaved: india, cyprus, Israel and ireland…” Baile@308
That detailed reply just disappeared so here is the quick version.
It would be hard to recall a single country (not Canada, South Africa, Guyana, Malaya, Fiji, Sri Lanka, for example) in which the UK did not encourage ethnic emnities.
Posted by: bevin | May 29 2023 14:32 utc | 340
Maria Zakharova takes a selfie to show Lindsay Graham how it’s done…and offers some advice.. if the Kiev regime misrepresented your words. Tell us yourself. What is your opinion/ can you refute your statement about successful investments in the death of Russians.
https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1663144077435584514
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 14:36 utc | 341
ak74 | May 29 2023 14:15 utc | 334
Stolen from twitter:
BREAKING: Despite Erdogan’s victory in the latest Türkish elections, Juan Guaido has declared himself the interim President of Türkiye.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 14:21 utc | 338
Yes, I saw that too.
As they say, it’s funny because it’s true.
https://twitter.com/OlgaBazova/status/1662923006631346176
Posted by: ak74 | May 29 2023 14:44 utc | 342
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 29 2023 11:56 utc | 299
If you are trying to discredit your opponent’s story about the incapacitation of your senior military leader you don’t show the briefest of clips where they hardly interact, physically or verbally with their environment. You sit the person down and get them to conduct an extensive interview, as he has done previously, especially as you need to bolster morale, perhaps interspersed with clips of then fully physically active. The failure to observe these basic rebuttal techniques is surprising, given the Western pedigree of the PR campaign they’ve waged so far, and might be an indicator of the true situation.
Posted by: Milites | May 29 2023 14:47 utc | 343
Picking up from yesterday’s Ukraine thread.
John Mcshitstain, Lindsay Graham and Amy Klobuchar in Ukraine. 2016.
https://twitter.com/RickFandango/status/1662765938565840896
—————
Did #Russia Invade #Ukraine Because of the Bidens’ #Biolabs? Hunter’s Laptop Says Yes’
https://twitter.com/RickFandango/status/1663120137149464578
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 14:50 utc | 344
HEY YOU A WORKING CLASS UKRAINIAN HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THAT WESTERN AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS THAT STOP RUSSIANS FROM BOMBING YOUR HOSPITALS ARE ACTUALLY A FORM OF WESTERN ZIONIST IMPERIALISM?!? JUST SURRENDER NOW TO THE INEVITABLE TRIUMPH OF PUTIN’S OH-SO-VERY-SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION!!!
Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | May 29 2023 14:30 utc | 341
Ukrainian civilians would be much better off if there was no air defense.
Practically all of the high profile cases of missiles hitting residential objects are either AD missiles that fall back onto the cities (because of course they situated the AD inside the cities) or, at worst, Russian missiles deflected by Ukrainian AD.
There isn’t a single confirmed cases of Russian missiles aiming at civilians, and really, why would they possibly do that? These are $500,000 missiles, why would anyone waste them on a random Khrushchevka in Kremenchug just to kill some civilians?
The only reason to even run to the shelters is that Ukrainian AD has not been suppressed and is a serious threat to the civilian population. Otherwise there is simply no point — these are not the Dresden or Tokyo bombings. It is always military and logistics targets.
Ukrainians, on the other hand, do exactly that which they accuses Russian of. Random shelling of cities first in the Donbass, then supposedly of their own civilians in Kherson, and now mainland Russia too (Shebekino was hit real hard today, with zero military targets there; to the point where they are evacuating children from the region to areas further inland). And it isn’t even just random shelling. There were dozens of HIMARS strikes with anti-personnel M30A1 rounds (the ones with the 200,000 tungsten shrapnel balls in them) against civilians — at evacuating civilians in Kherson, at civilians at bus stops in Donetsk and Alchevsk, at hospitals, etc. Again, these are precise strikes, with the targeting approved by the US too…
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 29 2023 14:56 utc | 345
Bemildred | May 29 2023 12:23 utc | 305
Turkey will not leave NATO – as you say, and I agree with. My question is – will Turkey take part in the NATO military maneuvers planned in June, around the Russia’ perimeter?
I have not seen any comments on this issue, but it is of serious importance.
Posted by: fanto | May 29 2023 15:00 utc | 346
I have not seen any comments on this issue, but it is of serious importance.
Posted by: fanto | May 29 2023 15:00 utc | 348
Good question, I don’t know. Russia has already commented on some of Turkiye’s activities being inconsistent with a role as mediator. The nonsense going on around Armenia looks like a fountain of trouble too. I think any current friendliness will be short-lived, but I think they will agree to disagree where they must and work together when they must too. Turkiye, under Erdogan at least, wants an independent path, so trouble is part of the deal. One thing Putin & Erdogan share is pragmatism.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 15:21 utc | 347
Ukrainians have started training on tanks in Germany
STUTTGART, Germany— About 200 Ukrainian soldiers have begun training on Abrams tanks at military ranges in Germany, the U.S. Army in Europe said Sunday in a statement.
The Ukrainian soldiers, who comprise an armored battalion, are joined by an additional 200 soldiers focused on the unique refueling and maintenance requirements needed to keep the M1A1 Abrams system operating, the Army said.
Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for U.S. Army Europe and Africa, said the Ukrainian tank battalion will be working on combined arms drills that includes everything from basic marksmanship and medical training to battalion level force-on-force tactics. . .here
for how long? . .until November?
Longer Armor training span showing gains in skills, lethality, fitness, of tank crews, cavalry scouts
FORT BENNING, Ga. – When Soldiers just out of Armor training are sent to the Army’s tank and scout forces, they’ll arrive more fully trained, more lethal with their weapons, and more physically fit, officials in charge of their training say in a recent video.
The gains in skill, lethality and fitness have come about because the Army lengthened Armor One-Station Unit Training, or Armor OSUT, to 22 weeks, say the officials, who are senior leaders in the 194th Armored Brigade, which produced the video. The longer training span began last fall. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | May 29 2023 15:26 utc | 348
I have not seen any comments on this issue, but it is of serious importance.
Posted by: fanto | May 29 2023 15:00 utc | 348
To be fair, they may well not, there is a lot of negative rhetoric coming out of Turkiye about Uncle Sugar right now, and I don’t see “Biden” doing anything to improve the situation.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 15:30 utc | 349
[350]
from basic marksmanship and medical training to battalion level force-on-force tactics
You are kidding ? How basic is this training ? Not even field-repairs on tracks or opt-electronics – but marksmanship and basic at that………..they are simply getting Abrams tanks as video props
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 29 2023 15:33 utc | 350
It’s only a matter of time before America starts crying about a stolen election
Posted by: ak74 | May 29 2023 14:15 utc | 334
They can’t. The other guy accepted the results as true. Based on his past, Erdo will most likely do whatever US asks him to do now, Russia was a trick to get more votes at elections.
Posted by: rk | May 29 2023 15:35 utc | 351
Based on his past, Erdo will most likely do whatever US asks him to do now,
Posted by: rk | May 29 2023 15:35 utc | 353
———–
When did Erdogan did what the US asked him to do?
Posted by: ostro | May 29 2023 15:51 utc | 352
Posted by: anon2020 | May 29 2023 13:50 utc | 325
TG post with a better quality side-view of supposed Kinzhal: https://t.me/Slavyangrad/47943
In this higher quality image. the side feature doesn’t look specifically like a stowed aerodynamic surface. It could be but it could also be some form of sensor strip or something else entirely.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 29 2023 15:53 utc | 353
Definitely not a wing or control surface. It is a conduit for electrical wiring.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 16:03 utc | 354
It looks like Gerans and missiles are already flying towards Khmelnitsky, Kiev regions…
Posted by: ostro | May 29 2023 16:05 utc | 355
I have not seen any comments on this issue, but it is of serious importance.
Posted by: fanto | May 29 2023 15:00 utc | 348
Conor McGregor has a nice writeup at Naked Capitalism on Turkiye, Erdogan, and the election that I can recommend too, the link is not previewing right, so I’m going to omit it.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 16:07 utc | 356
341.
All caps now. Must be getting close to a breakdown from all the cognitive dissonance. Patriot missiles are only good at shooting civilian cars. They don’t even hit homemade Houthi drones or their unguided Badr missiles.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 29 2023 16:07 utc | 357
@354
idlib province of syria is occupied by al qaeda, still.
Turks continue to support isil
Posted by: paddy | May 29 2023 16:18 utc | 358
——-
When did Erdogan did what the US asked him to do?
Posted by: ostro | May 29 2023 15:51 utc | 354
This is the word on the street widely held by the CHP side.
I think this was true when he operated through Gulen, pre-2016 coup. He has Muslim Brotherhood origins, which I understand is affiliated with Gladio. Now, I attribute playing the middle as necessary to survive and his street merchant instincts, IMO. Murky waters to decipher.
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 29 2023 16:19 utc | 359
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 16:07 utc | 358
Hopefully this is the link: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2023/05/what-does-erdogans-reelection-as-turkish-president-mean-for-the-new-cold-war.html
Posted by: West of England Andy | May 29 2023 16:47 utc | 361
Posted by: West of England Andy | May 29 2023 16:47 utc | 363
Thank you, botched his name too. Good day to rest.
I suppose he can take comfort in the shout out.
My regards.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 16:50 utc | 362
Where is Gonzalo Lira?
Posted by: Rodrigo Codesso | May 29 2023 16:40 utc | 362
I saw him consulting with Zaluzhny somewhere in Keiv./sarc
Helmer has an article on Zaluzhny today, thinks he is incapacitated.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 16:53 utc | 363
bemildered,
thanks for your replies to my question @348.
NATO may not even ask Turkey to participate for fear of betrayal..
Posted by: fanto | May 29 2023 17:05 utc | 364
Posted by: fanto | May 29 2023 17:05 utc | 366
Agree. My pleasure.
Erdogans’s re-election represents victory for Turkish sovereignty
Posted by: Bemildred | May 29 2023 17:16 utc | 365
Posted by: Baile | May 29 2023 12:32 utc | 308
“British ruled four countries that where partitioned when they leaved: india, cyprus, Israel and ireland.”
And in each of those cases the territory was inhabited by two very different tribes who didn’t get on terribly well, didn’t go for each other while Britain ruled, but did when they left.
The idea that this was some sort of cunning plan to divide and rule even after leaving is, er, “interesting”. In the case of Israel the rulers and ruled are more likely to be the other way round – nearly every new MP in the British Parliament heads off on an all expenses paid trip early in their career, and note the fate of Jeremy Corbyn.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 18:06 utc | 366
Posted by: bevin | May 29 2023 14:32 utc | 342
“It would be hard to recall a single country (not Canada, South Africa, Guyana, Malaya, Fiji, Sri Lanka, for example) in which the UK did not encourage ethnic emnities.”
Really? In the United Kingdom, where the oligarch class are replicating what their forebears did to Fiji 150 years previously, importing cheaper labour to both undercut native workers and remove power from them, the oligarchs take great care to ensure that no political party arises to defend the native workers, and expressions of native discontent (aka “racism”) are rigorously suppressed. Ethnic emnity is the last thing they want, unless the enemy aliens are far away in Iraq, Syria, Libya or now Russia, bad for business you know.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 18:44 utc | 367
WW3 Update
Taiwan seeking Nuclear Umbrella!!!
https://www.firstpost.com/world/taiwan-wants-us-nuclear-umbrella-similar-to-japan-south-korea-to-deter-chinese-invasion-12649852.html
Posted by: Peace | May 29 2023 19:11 utc | 368
@326 Melaleuca , thank you and I have just viewed it. Yes, it may be that Russia will now start to cut all bridges over the Dneiper to both isolate part of the ukro forces and hinder their resupply. Good old Sun-Tzu .
@354 ostro
Erdogan’s history does not start from 2016 ie his survival of a purported coup against him. He has a long filesheet of highcrimes conducted with his US pals and some of us remember.
1) allowed the US to use Incirlik airbase as one of the staging grounds for the Iraq invasions by the US in 2003.
2) As a jihadist commissar in the Gulenist Mili Gurus group , Erdo was kneedeep in sending and supporting Turkish and other Headchoppers to Chechnya against the Russians.
3) He purposefully allowed a weak border with Syria and egged on headchopping atrocities of ISIS in Syria after training and nursing such “rebels”.
4) He was behind stealing oil ,water and factory plant from Syria and then selling said oil on the market via Israeli intermediaries . All in the interests of the USA.
5) Actively founded and supported headchoppers allied to himself ie Free Syrian Army and multiple alphabet soup names , mostly now in Idlib. A slap to Putin .
6) Actively supports and trains Uighurs (Chinese Turks) in Sinkiang and Syria. US loves this.
7) purposefully invaded Libya to stop Russia’s General Haftar alliance . It succeeded and we hear nothing of Haftar or Libya anymore. A definite slap to Putin.
8) He sends weapons and jihadis to Nagorno Karabakh in the Armeno-Azeri War of 2022 and Ukraine ,both for US interests and against Russia.
9) He hijacked a Russian bomber to please Uncle Sam , but the US then left him in the lurch.
Posted by: Boy | May 29 2023 19:32 utc | 369
@Boy | May 29 2023 19:32 utc | 371
Turkey is… complicated. It occupies an important geo-strategic location – look at its history since the bronze age – and this will not change no matter who is in power.
Erdo had delusions of grandeur (the new ottoman sultan) which lead to a series of ill-advised over extensions which you listed, but he was bitten twice – once by the US (attempted coup) and once by Russian sanctions following the downed jet fighter. I think he has become more of a realist over the past few years. Russia is a neighbor and critical trading partner which cannot be ignored. Russia is fine with a sovereign Turkey that pursues its interests and is not opposed to fostering meaningful economic development in Turkey that serves mutual interests (unlike the US). Russia is not going anywhere, the US…??
Posted by: the pessimist | May 29 2023 20:00 utc | 370
Odds and ends:
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/31975
👉The enemy has been shelling the border areas of the Belgorod region since morning. Our artillery is working in response.
Governor Gladkov was marked by a fresh idea about the need to occupy the Kharkov region in order to ensure the security of the Belgorod region. This is again to the old question about the withdrawal from the northern regions of the Kharkov region.
PS. In the Kursk region, local volunteers were transferred to round-the-clock service.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/48325
Prigozhin published his proposals for improving the territorial defense of the Belgorod region and other front-line regions of the Russian Federation.
https://t.me/llordofwar/148300
🇬🇧 Let’s hope that as a result of the entire conflict, adequate measures will be developed to counter this type of weapon.
And although KAZ does not have the ability to shoot down the Javelin directly, in any case, it MUST stand on every tank of the Russian army in order to save the lives of the fighters.
https://t.me/llordofwar/148297
Soldiers of the 200th Guards Brigade of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Armed Forces are holding back Ukrainian nationalists north of Artemovsk.
“They have more UAVs. The whole sky is full of birds. Therefore, their artillery works well. We are capturing some of their positions, strongholds. We are slowly moving forward,” said the fighter with the call sign “Sevsk”.
A “strategically unimportant” city, according to Zelensky, is being attacked by the Ukrainian Armed Forces from the southern and northern flanks with the help of drones. In response, our rocket artillery hits them.
“We were confronted by, as they say, almost experienced Poles troops. They also have strict discipline in this regard, they have “not a step back”, they fight well. But it’s okay, we can handle them anyway”, — added “Sevsk”.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 29 2023 21:00 utc | 371
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | May 29 2023 13:07 utc | 317
Thank you Lev for all those Trotsky cites. I’m going to be busy. I didn’t know a whole lot about Trotsky until about five years ago I read The Prophet trilogy by Isaac Deutscher. The first book The Prophet Armed was a fascinating history of Trotsky’s role in the Russian revolution. Then The Prophet Unarmed got into his dream of world revolution and he failed to see Stalin sneaking up on him. I put off reading the final volume The Prophet Outcast for months for fear it would be too depressing but it turned out to be the best read of the three as Trotsky traveled the world looking for countries unafraid to take in a communist revolutionary while trying to evade assassins from both Hitler and Stalin.
Posted by: Chas | May 29 2023 21:12 utc | 372
If I was China or North Korea…..
I would desperately try to quietly get involved and active in the front line battles of Russia against Ukraine. Why? Both face military challenges without hard battle experience. China’s attack on Vietnam was too long ago and was an embarrassment. Some Russian soldiers are rather Asiatic in appearance, so they may get away with it. Russia’s winning, so the risk is reduced.
The point is that, while they talk tough, they lack direct experience. And there’s no substitute for that ( as Russia knows).
Posted by: Eighthman | May 29 2023 21:14 utc | 373
Posted by: Boy | May 29 2023 19:32 utc | 371
That is US Foreign Policy under direction of the CIA MI-5 and Israel, not the actions of a sovereign nation. He was just the hired thug, not the decision maker.
The US wants to coup Erdo because he no longer wants to play along. This is also why Turks say that he still does US bidding and only pretending to oppose the US.
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 29 2023 22:07 utc | 374
YetAnotherAnon | May 29 2023 18:44 utc | 369
*** Really? In the United Kingdom, where the oligarch class are replicating what their forebears did to Fiji 150 years previously, importing cheaper labour to both undercut native workers and remove power from them, the oligarchs take great care to ensure that no political party arises to defend the native workers, and expressions of native discontent (aka “racism”) are rigorously suppressed.***
Destruction of national identity is a prime objective. The socio-economic Overclass and its system’s apparatchiks identify with each other (transnationally) not with the general public.
*** Ethnic emnity is the last thing they want, unless the enemy aliens are far away in Iraq, Syria, Libya or now Russia, bad for business you know.***
But they *do* very much want it — in a controlled fashion … see the wokist / LGBTQ+++ takeover of so many Whitehall departments, NGOs, and (for instance) education … to a far greater and unhindered extent than would ever be possible without political-establishment approval and collusion.
New laws (and now the “EU” bad though it is, cannot be blamed) don’t tend to prevent or reverse the power grab — instead, they entrench and protect it.
See how Starmer demands that 300,000 new houses be built per year, and to hell with countryside and sustainability … see how Starmer and his like (in other words, *all* sides in the allegedly “representative” parliamentary farce) are at the same time happy to stuff well over a million publically unwanted outsiders into the country per year.
Then see how dissent is crushed via even more laws and “cancellations”.
The problems the establishment politicians create, supply the excuse for them to inflict even more thought-policing and repression.
All, of course, imposed under a semantic drivel-storm of liberal “tolerance”.
Posted by: Cynic | May 29 2023 22:15 utc | 375
@Boy | May 29 2023 19:32 utc | 371
*** Turkey is… complicated. It occupies an important geo-strategic location – look at its history since the bronze age – and this will not change no matter who is in power.***
Turkey should not necessarily be where it is; the Turkic tribes were comparative latecomers from lands to the north-west of China.
An area of what is now called Turkey was once part of the Keltic confederation.
If there ever can be a genuinely free Europe (which includes Russia) and the Turks decide to oppose it instead of being friends, they might need to be reminded….
Posted by: Cynic | May 29 2023 22:30 utc | 376
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 14:50 utc | 346
Did #Russia Invade #Ukraine Because of the Bidens’ #Biolabs? Hunter’s Laptop Says Yes’
Another coke-head like Z? Un homme avec une caméra et mille putes ? A collector of drug porn extraordinaire? A dead-beat with top level contacts at Goldman Sachs?
Get real!! You know this is just another Internet conspiracy theory. You believe a Burisma board member, steeped in the global oil trade, knows anything about vermin? Next you will be telling us 10% went to the “BIG GUY.” Or that his dad shut down a corruption investigation in 404 and had the head justice department official fired or else all funding to 404 immediately ceases.
Really?
The Bezo’s Broadsheet clarified everything and reduced it to nothing more than “a complex-looking flow chart with spaghetti lines” Are you going to trust your own lying eyes over the word of the kleptocratic elite running the country?
https://archive.ph/2022.05.17-140424/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/29/truth-about-hunter-biden-ukrainian-bio-labs/
https://archive.ph/MmfaL
https://archive.ph/ItSdD
Posted by: Sushi | May 29 2023 22:45 utc | 377
Some videos for today.
Powerful Russian weapons deployed for control over Donetsk battleground (another good frontline report from near Artemovsk):
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/donetsk-battleground:5
Russia’s Solntsepyok flamethrower system wipes out Kiev regime stronghold with thermobaric shell during advance on Svatovo:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/SolntsepyokSvatovo2905:f
Russian Nona-S system and Orlan-30 drone team coordinate to perform precision strike:
https://rutube.ru/video/66ea4081af1f0133cdedbf059153cd88/
Russian ATGM destroys enemy armored personnel carrier:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/UTTXsCAI-RvrESBR:a
Russian Buk-M2 air defense system crews in action:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/BukM22905:b
Russian Shturm-S fires ATGMs at the enemy:
https://rutube.ru/video/b57ef5c5b64cac178333a133e108ed07/
Posted by: Nate | May 30 2023 0:28 utc | 378
>>So why then did the Russians breach the road and the dam wall now? Are they expecting mass troops or supplies all of a sudden?
Posted by: Boy | May 29 2023 12:46 utc | 314
Perhaps the purpose is to drain the reservoir down to prevent more serious flooding in the future. If they are going to go for Odessa it would be a good plan to avoid being cut of by a major flood.
>>I believe that it is much more plausible that these surfaces are intended to guide the missile during the boost phase.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 14:07 utc | 333
I read somewhere that the thing deploys some decoys once close to the target. Maybe it has something to do with that.
>>STUTTGART, Germany— About 200 Ukrainian soldiers have begun training on Abrams tanks at military ranges in Germany, the U.S. Army in Europe said Sunday in a statement.
Don Bacon | May 29 2023 15:26 utc | 350
The Abrams tank is poorly suited for the Ukraine environment, just like the F16. The tank has great acceleration and speed because of a turbine engine, but it is maintenance intensive, sucks a lot of fuel, and if hot air can be detected, must have a really big infrared signature when the motor is running.
>>importing cheaper labour to both undercut native workers and remove power from them,….and expressions of native discontent (aka “racism”) are rigorously suppressed.
Cynic | May 29 2023 22:15 utc | 377
And now they are doing it to us, or we are doing it to ourselves. The chickens come home to roost.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 30 2023 0:31 utc | 379
I know this doesn’t really belong here but so many others have posted total garbage about partition in some lame manner trying to allege that partition and the politics of division which led up to it had nothing to do with england, even though right from when Robert Clive stole the first bits of India for the East India Co back in 1757 it was by by persuading Hindu Indians to turn against the Mogul empire which was governed by Muslims.
The Mogul empire was incredibly wealthy, a wealth generated by weaving, spinning & dyeing Indian cotton. That wealth was spread throughout all levels of Mogul society, yet after england got ahold of it through the East India company before the englander government took direct control of the sepoy army Clive created, the wealth disappeared from India altogether and finished up in england. England moved the weaving spinning and dyeing to england’s midlands then to add insult to injury, they moved cotton growing to amerika where the use of slave labour made growing cotton much less expensive.
In the interim, in order to keep control of India a policy of divide & rule turning the many different philosophies & religions of India against each other was pursued as a way to keep control. This is largely the same way nations such as amerika are controlled know. Check out any social media site and you will see far more whinges about artificial constructs such as ‘cultural marxism’ than you will ever see posts asking “why are we all so poor nowadays”.
The divide and rule policy came to a head when englander pedophile & degenerate Louis Mountbatten convened a meeting between Nehru representing Hindus and Jinnah representing Muslims. Mountbatten deliberately excluded Jinnah from negotions about borders, controlling Nehru by pimping his wife to him. Some claim he established his own sexual relationship with Nehru in addition to his wife’s affair with Nehru.
Jinnah was continually presented with unworkable fait accompli that resulted in splitting the Punjab and severing a land bridge between east & west Pakista, which was a further ploy to ensure animosity between the two new states India & Pakistan remained long after the english left. We can see the results of that in events nearly 80 years later.
I know englanders live in a continual state of denial about this but rather than accepting the lies their rulers tell them to then denying any role they would be better served to acknowledge that this was yet another matter which ordinary normal englanders had no say in, then taking the current state of their nation as being a similar affront to humanity.
Posted by: Debsisdead | May 30 2023 3:45 utc | 380
New York Times in an article about Erdogan’s election victory:
To underline U.S. support for both Sweden and Finland in NATO, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will visit both countries this week as part of a trip to attend an informal alliance meeting of foreign ministers in Norway.
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 30 2023 4:10 utc | 381
Russians disappointed that their country is not on solid and necessary war footing. Russia needs to get the lead out:
It just turns out that a huge number of states are fighting against Russia, all the technical power of the United States and NATO, and we have only a part of the people and 1/17 of the state.
I don’t understand why we can’t put the country on a war footing? Why can’t we help the front? Why don’t we hit on the development and supply of weapons, but only hang out patriotic slogans and learn songs?
Posted by: MiniMo | May 30 2023 5:06 utc | 382
The ICTY was the idea of Madeleine Albright, a Serb-hater, and who also thought the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children due to the strict sanctions against Iraq was “worth it”.
The ICTY was a political kangaroo court which allowed hearsay, 2nd/3rd hand hearsay, and had proven perjurers who were used several times in key cases before they were caught red-handed in lies and fabrications, and even admitted it when they were caught.
The “witnesses” were often scripted by the prosecution. They memorized what the prosecution told them too, and this often meant that their testimony became a joke when they got mixed up and confused. Milosevic did a good job outing the lies, and that’s one reason why they would mute his microphone, and also why they grew rather quiet about the proceedings even after touting it as “the trial of the century”.
The court blocked thousands of pieces of exculpatory evidence for Serbs, while it blocked or wouldn’t allow top quality evidence and testimony of crimes against Serbs.
It was a political weapon against Serbs, and unlike the others, the Serbs actually had genuine autopsy reports and medical reports to back their cases.
Meanwhile, even an ICTY judge admitted they didn’t have any genuine autopsy reports for Srebrenica at all. Further, they didn’t even request the Bosnian Muslim military documents, which would have shed light on many things. The Bosnian Muslim had an entire Brigade in Srebrenica – the 28th Brigade – and that army literally walked out at least 2 nights before the “fall”. The top commanders had gone to Tuzla months earlier and never bothered to come back. It was an arranged fall and part of the plan to separate the warring forces more neatly. The U.S. and Bosnian Muslim leadership took the idea of the Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Muslim government from back in 1993 about swapping Srebrenica for Vogosca – a Serb populated and held part around Sarajevo.
Milosevic’s deaths was definitely suspicious as he had been given the wrong medicine at least twice, and there are clues that they tampered with his food.
And there was also another Serb – Croatian Serb Milan Babic – who was definitely murdered within a week of Milosevic. The Dutch doctors who did his autopsy said it was never seen in all of medical literature. And that is that the mark on his neck was much narrower than the belt those at the Hague jail claimed he hung himself with.
If anything the mark on someone’s neck is larger but never smaller, and his was much narrower which means he was strangled with a rope or something thinner than that belt. So they obviously lied about his death.
Milosevic was killed before the defense phase of his trial started.
Yet despite the ICTY being a political weapon against Serbs, funded by NATO countries and used to justify NATO attacks on Serbs, there was truth from UN officers and others which spoke opposite of the mainstream propaganda.
UN officers testified that Bosnian Muslim snipers in Sarajevo shot at civilians and the UN, that they used several buildings in the infamous “Sniper’s Alley”, that they used “shoot and scoot” attacks and were highly mobile with weapons mounted on cars, trucks, etc., and they would launch provocative attacks from the grounds or roofs of hospitals and other buildings.
Additionally UN documents and confirmed in testimony was that the Bosnian Muslim government wasn’t distributing the food to the civilians, which was flowing in in regular shipments, as was fuel/oil, and other supplies (and not to mention the UN-controlled airport which received an average of almost 10 flights per day during the war).
The UN said that some of the food went to the Bosnian Muslim army in Sarajevo (which was very large, multiple times greater than the Bosnian Serb forces in the area), and some ended up on the black market, but most of it – 60% – wasn’t distributed at all, and the UN believed the Sarajevo government was stockpiling it.
So the government in Sarajevo deliberately withheld the plentiful food brought in by the UN for the civilians and used that to push its “siege” narrative and sell the war.
UN documents and soldiers also admitted that the Muslim government interfered with the utilities even more than the war, and that there was a “sporadic nature” of it which suggested the government was deliberately turning it off and on, as well.
Posted by: MiniMo | May 30 2023 6:36 utc | 383
Even at the ICTY kangaroo court and using witnesses for the prosecution Bosnian Muslim crimes against Serbs are revealed, but not that it makes a difference if it doesn’t fit NATO’s agenda:
David Harland a UN officer from New Zealand who served in BiH during the war, and was a witness for the prosecution, yet admitted a Muslim sniper boasting to him about killing 2 Serb girls.
the transcript is from the 15th of January, 2007, on pages 394 through 396, this is what you said:
[In English] “The background of this anti-sniping agreement, the sniping of Serb civilians by the Bosniaks which had been partly behind the closure of the blue routes, there had been a number of particularly nasty incidents, including one notorious episode where two young Serb girls were killed by a sniper who had apparently boasted that he had waited until they were properly aligned — perfectly aligned.”
https://www.icty.org/x/cases/karadzic/trans/en/100507ED.htm
Posted by: MiniMo | May 30 2023 6:59 utc | 384
“including one notorious episode where two young Serb girls were killed by a [Bosniak] sniper who had apparently boasted that he had waited until they were properly aligned — perfectly aligned”
This is NOT the actions of people defending themselves but of a sadistic terrorist people who were bent on genocide of the ethnic Serbs in Sarajevo.
And unlike propaganda which is hyped in the news, this is a plain statement not meant to reap some agenda – like the propaganda against Serbs was used to push sanctions, bombing, continue to demonize them, etc. This kind of info, and there is way more, even in the very restricted ICTY, which prevented most information about abuse of Serbs reaching trial in the first place, does not make the news.
And that’s because the “news” is almost pure psyops during a war with an agenda by the same powerful countries which print/push that “news”.
And this Bosnian Muslim child-murderer never was prosecuted for that nor his undoubtedly other murders of civilians.
Posted by: MiniMo | May 30 2023 7:09 utc | 385
30.05.2023 Breaking news: AFU kamikaze drones attack Moscow and Rublevka. Video of the destruction. Battle map today (24 videos)
Moscow was attacked by drones – crashing into residential buildings on Atlasova (New Moscow), Leninsky and Profsoyuznaya. No casualties, although at Leninsky a drone flew into a flat. I heard the air defence systems working at night – presumably there were a dozen of these drones. (Russian Tarantas)
According to Baza, more than ten drones have so far been intercepted in the Moscow region.
Two drones were shot down in the Istrinsky district of the Moscow region half an hour apart, Mash writes. All of them were flying from the direction of the elite village of Benelux towards Krasnogorsk at an altitude of 30-40 metres. Then two pops were heard, presumably from air defence systems.
This morning’s UAV raid on Moscow is a logical continuation of the events of May 9. At that time UAVs were used for reconnaissance and to study the capabilities of REB and air defence. Today, Ukrainian formations have already launched explosives-laden drones to strike the capital.
Moskau bombardiert,unglaublich.
Posted by: Oberbayer | May 30 2023 8:01 utc | 386
380 – Debisdead
I think you are probably mistaken. It has become an accepted idea that the Brits partitioned India in a spirit of divide and rule. The BBC’s otherwise excellent programmes on Partition in 2017 constantly blamed the evil Brits for the horrors that followed (and preceded) Partition. The impetus for Partition came from Jinnah (one of “three stubborn old men”) – but it is fair to say that he had been so provoked by Congress that by the end of the war the die was already cast.
Much more important – from the UK’s point of view – was the enormous pressure Attlee was under from Washington after the war to “decolonialise”. We don’t know what form this pressure took, possibly relating to the UK’s debt to America.
So Attlee HAD to act. He asked Mountbatten to take on this unpleasant job because Mountbatten was one of the very few men with sufficient prestige to do so – also enjoying the trust of both sides. Mountbatten was given a deadline by Attlee for partition but decided to bring it forward – in retrospect a wise decision.
My own view is that Mountbatten, in common with practically all his countrymen with connections with India, was greatly saddened by Partition and had he thought it possible to avoid it would have done so. But by the time he arrived back in India it was far too late to rebuild bridges between Jinnah and Congress.
Posted by: Montreal | May 30 2023 8:16 utc | 387
re Montreal | May 30 2023 8:16 utc | 387
If anyone is mistaken it is you. England had pursued a policy of divide and rule throughout the 200 years of its corrupt occupation of the indian sub-continent, the barest details of which I outlined in my post.
It appears to me you believe that this unjust and oppressive occupation of India was benign when all the evidence shows it was anything but.
You can choose to blame amerika’s insistence on decolonisation if it makes you feel happier but the plain facts are that as far as their india colony, england had no choice, before the outbreak of war in europe, it had become plain a) that the people of the sub-continent would no longer tolerate occupation and b) englanders lacked sufficient forces to make Indians submit. Some in India elected to assist england in the war on the proviso that after they would gain independence, many chose not to cooperate hence the one part of South Asia which england fought Japan in was Burma as they were terrified that Indians would team up with japanese to drive england out before englander business interests were secured.
Amerika was interested in grabbing Africa & other parts of Asia from the englanders but they too baulked at India as one large chunk like that was just too much to swallow, they preferred to slowly eat up already divided by 19th century euro competition pieces like The Mid-East, Africa & parts of South East Asia.
So england determined that they could continue to extract profits from India if they remained in a state of internal conflict.
By the time the USSR was no more and amerika felt perhaps they could devour India, they discovered not only was it too large, their time had passed.
As I said above many englanders still delude themselves about what england did in India, but it is self-delusion which completely flies in the face of known facts. Trying to blame the victim as you do with Jinnah is ridiculous self-delusion.
Posted by: Debsisdead | May 30 2023 8:58 utc | 388
Posted by: Debsisdead | May 30 2023 8:58 utc | 388
“Trying to blame the victim as you do with Jinnah is ridiculous self-delusion.”
Jinnah was pretty explicit – “either a divided India or a destroyed India”.
https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/divided-or-destroyed-remembering-direct-action-day/cid/157755
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 30 2023 9:12 utc | 389
I am far from trying to blame Jinnah, whom I greatly admire. My point was that Partition happened, not because of an evil London plot, or because of some faults in Mountbatten’s character, but from the whole series of circumstances which preceded it.
Posted by: Montreal | May 30 2023 9:23 utc | 390
Drone strikes damage buildings in Moscow. Bye bye deescalation. Someone is hellbent on making this a bigger conflict and even if they fail in everything else they will succeed in doing that.
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 30 2023 9:27 utc | 391
“AFU have shelled a temporary accommodation centre in Belgorod region, there are wounded and dead, the region’s governor has said. He promised to report details later”
Posted by: rk | May 30 2023 15:49 utc | 392
Montreal@387
I think that the immediate, the word is relative, origins of partition lay in the 1905 partition of Bengal which was undoubtedly aimed at producing a split between muslims and hindus in order to prevent the growth of Congress.
One of my most vivid early memories is of the anger which a couple of my parents’ friends still felt in the late 1950s, having been in India, in the northwest during the time of ‘population exchanges.’ And the millions who died.
It is no coincidence that the Naqba in Palestine was contemporaneous or that the first response, in 1948, to the Emergency of dealing with a democratic rising in Malaya was to slice the population down the middle with muslims on one side and the former anti-fascist underground on the other.
Posted by: bevin | May 30 2023 22:30 utc | 393