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May 28, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-129
Comments
Mark @ 96
Ukrainian crews with only rudimentary training
So, they gave these systems worth ~$500 million a piece to people with only rudimentary training? Patriot Fiesta started last fall they’ve had 6 months to train. The spinning is making me dizzy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqjhHVUzl8o
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 28 2023 20:25 utc | 101
State dept statement regarding Gonzalo Lira
https://twitter.com/cosgrove_iv/status/1662896498596560896
Posted by: GT Stroller | May 28 2023 20:27 utc | 297
Posted by: GT Stroller | May 28 2023 20:29 utc | 102
A wing of F16 fighter jets unreported on Flight Tracker flew in formation over Gloucestershire on 19/05/2023 from a US base(s) in UK.
Clearly in preparation for their departure to Ukraine the air display was staged for propaganda effect to remind UK citizenry that the skies over this occupied country are controlled by the USAF (United States Air Force) for NATO wars against Russia.
Posted by: Rick | May 28 2023 20:38 utc | 103
Posted by: ostro | May 28 2023 17:19 utc | 52
excellent news! i still have some hope Imran Khan can prevail in Pakistan.
Posted by: pretzelattack | May 28 2023 20:45 utc | 104
” US incarceration statistics show a disproportionate number of Blacks in prison. However; African Americans comprise only 1/8th of the US population yet they commit about 3/5ths of all homicides and nearly 3/4ths of all gun homicides.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 20:19 utc | 100 ”
My point exactly. If Russia had to deal with such upstanding citizens on a regular basis then we would have a totally different conversation happening. Although, the ever multiplying ” Russians ” from the ‘stans are increasing Russia’s crime stats daily. Its only a matter of time.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 28 2023 20:46 utc | 105
@Posted by: JB | May 28 2023 19:40 utc | 91
There was an attempt to subvert the law, and justice, coming from the US side. The law was restored, but an injustice was done. That has left a stain on the overall very good work of the ICTYl which has been under attack from all corners from day one to this day. The truth always is. But it will not go away and it can not be destroyed.
LMFAO, the case of Milosevic shows the true nature of the ICTY. The NATO generals and Western leaders, should have been in the dock for their war crimes in intentionally destroying Yugoslavia (including the illegal bombing campaign and the Muslim terrorist training and supply lines), together with the leaders of Croatia for the ethnic cleansing of Krajina, the Bosnian leaders etc. This documentary very well shows the dirty tactics used bye the ICTY.
The Milosevic Case Glosses at a Trial Part 2
Milosevic was no saint (very much a corrupt strong man) but it was obvious that he was railroaded and then conveniently died in custody before being quietly exonerated. The book by Parenti is a much more accurate representation of what happened:
https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Nation-Attack-Yugoslavia/dp/1859843662/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UM4ZEEAYDHGM&keywords=killing+a+state+yugoslavia&qid=1685306431&sprefix=killimg+a+state+yugoslavia%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1
Election body confirms Erdogan’s win
The announcement came after the Turkish president had already declared victory
https://www.rt.com/news/577058-erdogan-election-win-confirmed/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications
Posted by: Ed | May 28 2023 20:54 utc | 107
@ LightYearsFromHome | May 28 2023 20:25 utc | 101
A well-trained Ukrainian crew discovered a hidden “wedding party mode” button, obviously.
Posted by: whirlX | May 28 2023 21:02 utc | 108
Paul Damascene | 20
===========================
Interceptibility aside, if this drop to sub-hypersonic speeds on final approach is true, much of what I thought I understood about the kinetic energies involved in a Kinzhal strike may also be untrue.
===========================
As I understand it, Hypersonic only refers to flight at altitude where air density is much lower and friction heating is manageable. Once the missile makes it’s final almost vertical dive to the target it’s no longer powered and will naturally lose speed. Air density will increase at lower altitudes and friction heating would melt a hypersonic vehicle almost regardless of our heat management strategy. What I’ve read suggests that the AD will have a view of the incoming target for a few seconds. During that time, Kinzhal deploys the 8 decoys of various types that it carries.
If you watch those videos of the Patriots firing, most of the tracks are straight up, which aligns with the information that Kinzhal makes it’s attack run as an almost vertical dive on the target. In theory, Kinzhal could be intercepted at this point, but while not Hypersonic, it’s still traveling at mach 3 or so. The Russians describing the attack on the patriots also referred to the Kinzhal as a glide vehicle suggesting that besides decoys, it can also maneuver in it’s terminal phase.
The version of the Patriots being used in the Kiev action are hit to kill – not explosive
So while I think we have to accept that intercept is possible, it would not be “easy” – proven by the fact that the battery expended 30 interceptors trying to defend itself.
But who knows. Maybe after the war the complete truth will come out ?
Posted by: Dan Farrand | May 28 2023 21:07 utc | 109
“It turns out that our air defense forces with crash course training literally squeezed out of the Patriot a capability that the Pentagon did not think was possible.”
I think you will agree this story is extremely unlikely, and is being reported in slightly mocking terms, never mind that nobody believes – or shouldn’t – that the Patriot systems in Ukraine are being operated by ‘crash-course Ukrainians’.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-squeezed-us-patriot-missile-141738691.html
Posted by: Mark | May 28 2023 19:53 utc | 96
If nobody believed this pile of anal extraction, the western liars wouldn’t publish this nonsense. They do it because a set of the population accept anything the propagandists say as gospel truth. On the remote possibility that a Patriot missile can intercept a Kinzhal, it actually doesn’t matter all that much. The Russian attack got the Ukrainians to shoot off an entire battery of missiles at decoys, and there just aren’t that many Patriot missiles available. Russia could provoke Ukraine into wasting all of these missiles without ever delivering a knockout blow, and the US would not be able to replace them. Now the US won’t allow the launch of any more while it ‘studies’ the situation. At any rate, the Patriot has essentially been rendered useless.
Posted by: Mike R | May 28 2023 21:08 utc | 110
osted by: Roger | May 28 2023 20:49 utc | 106
No, NATO generals and Western leaders did not destroy the SFRY, the Serbian and Croatian chauvinists did.
Miošević and the Serbianchauvinists bear the greatest responsibility, and committed the most egregious and most widespread crimes in the sensless destruction of a wonderful country.
He is a proven but unfortunately not convicted criminal because he died in custody just days before the end of his trial. There was nothing suspicious about his death.
The Milosevic trial was a great trial. You are (all) welcome to read the most important Decision in his case – Decision on Motion for Judgement of Acquittal, 16 June 2004.
No book is ‘more accurate’ than what has been proved beyond reasonable doubt in public, impartial and fair proceedings before an international court.
Posted by: JB | May 28 2023 21:11 utc | 111
Posted by: unimperator | May 28 2023 19:20 utc | 82
Litany of problems reported with Army’s Stryker vehicle
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/litany-of-problems-reported-with-armys-stryker-vehicle/
The Wheeled Cannon That Everyone Hates
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-wheeled-cannon-that-everyone-hates-d5e6d22bdfcc
Stryker APC deal tabled for two years
http://web.archive.org/web/20040722212207/http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1090208251924
Some of the criticism has been that the Stryker has many blind spots and was not as maneuverable as tracked armored personnel carriers. The 19-ton vehicles are also said to be top heavy and prone to rollovers.
After it was designed the American Army realized it wouldn’t withstand RPGs so the US rushed through additional means to pre-detonate the RPGs, which made them even more top heavy.
It also needed to upgrade its protection against roadside bombs with appliqu armor developed by an Israeli–based company.
“It’s a piece of junk,” said one former senior IDF field commander intimately involved with the Stryker. “I don’t know why Ron-tal was pushing so hard for it.” There was also criticism that the IDF was never really serious about purchasing the Stryker from the beginning and it was all part of a disinformation campaign, possibly to enhance Israel’s indigenous APC production.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 28 2023 21:14 utc | 112
@Posted by: Ed | May 28 2023 20:54 utc | 107
So the US regime change agents lost again in Turkey, but got a win in Thailand that will take a few years of pain to undo, an unstable win in Pakistan and a festering civil war in Myanmar, stopped Georgia from taming the US/Western NGO complex, but lost in Kazakhstan and Belarus. All on top of the fascist regimes in Ukraine and the Baltic nations. It will be a long and winding road to make the Europeans and their white settler colonies go home and mind their own business.
Not quite ready for mass production, China announced the development of a new drone, “China unveils tube-launched drone with breakthrough flight performance”, which could replace traditional mortars, or used in a number of other roles greatly enhancing the power of squad-sized formations. Several months ago I provided a link that showed a Chinese multiple drone launcher very similar to traditional multiple launch rocket artillery. The Drone and Missile Age are upon us with IFR systems that make hiding almost impossible. The combat environment today’s infantry face is daunting, and is also being extended to rear FEBA areas where artillery, logistical stores and other support plus command are based. Soon, the concept of “Rear Area” will be obsolete as the FEBA widens to perhaps 50km wide.
The advancement of War Tech makes it clear that the world must end the Hegemonic Era, the Era of Plunder, and evolve beyond conflict.
” He is a proven but unfortunately not convicted criminal because he died in custody just days before the end of his trial. There was nothing suspicious about his death.
The Milosevic trial was a great trial. You are (all) welcome to read the most important Decision in his case – Decision on Motion for Judgement of Acquittal, 16 June 2004.
No book is ‘more accurate’ than what has been proved beyond reasonable doubt in public, impartial and fair proceedings before an international court.
Posted by: JB | May 28 2023 21:11 utc | 111 ”
You probably also believe in box cutters and nineteen hijackers and a mistaken attack on the USS Liberty.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 28 2023 21:21 utc | 115
Interceptibility aside, if this drop to sub-hypersonic speeds on final approach is true, much of what I thought I understood about the kinetic energies involved in a Kinzhal strike may also be untrue.
What is the best interpretation of Kinzhal capabilities here?
Posted by: Paul Damascene | May 28 2023 15:55 utc | 20
It was shown by Rolo Slavskiy, I think, or maybe Simplicius, that hypersonic speeds in dense lower atmosphere would simply burn the things up. I learned quite a lot in that discussion. If I remember right it turns out large passenger jets, for instance, would be torn apart if they did what we take as their ‘normal’ ( i.e. cruising altitude ) speeds in the lower atmosphere. I think I even read some are limited to as low as 250 knots.
Plus the comms question. When very hot apparently they get encased in a ‘plasma field’, whatever that is and radio signals cannot penetrate it. So claiming it is controllable is tantamount to saying it has a certain speed limit at that time.
And lastly whoever published what i’m talking about pointed out that the photographs of the thing about to hit the ground showed clearly it was not glowing white hot or even pink hot. Hence necessarily rather slow.
US incarceration statistics show a disproportionate number of Blacks in prison. However; African Americans comprise only 1/8th of the US population yet they commit about 3/5ths of all homicides and nearly 3/4ths of all gun homicides.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 20:19 utc | 100
Which means their ‘disproportion’ is in the ‘other’ direction to that which usually contended. There’s too few, quite clearly. They are not being apprehended or they are not being convicted. Which is to say the USA is suffering from a self inflicted injury. Just more evidence of its systemic insanity.
A wing of F16 fighter jets unreported on Flight Tracker flew in formation over Gloucestershire on 19/05/2023 from a US base(s) in UK.
Clearly in preparation for their departure to Ukraine the air display was staged for propaganda effect to remind UK citizenry that the skies over this occupied country are controlled by the USAF (United States Air Force) for NATO wars against Russia.
Posted by: Rick | May 28 2023 20:38 utc | 103
The UK citizenry, if there are any of the original Britons left under the billions of imported, needs a swift kick in the slats, needs abusing roundly and loudly to wake it out of its slumber… it is just being downright stupid to an incredible extent, which it might, perversely, be happy with, being truculent anglo saxons, but it is doing it in the service of a bunch of greedy loud mouthed lying Yanks….. they won’t be happy about that…
My point exactly. If Russia had to deal with such upstanding citizens on a regular basis then we would have a totally different conversation happening. Although, the ever multiplying ” Russians ” from the ‘stans are increasing Russia’s crime stats daily. Its only a matter of time.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 28 2023 20:46 utc | 105
African Americans are now demanding reparations of about $200 million per Black person. Many White Americans are in favor of repatriating Blacks back to Africa and demanding a refund. Alternatively; we could persuade African Americans to emigrate to Western Europe so that all of those diseases Eurotrash who castigate Americans for being racist can savor their companionship.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 21:42 utc | 119
The ICTY was created in 1993, as the destruction of Yugoslavia was just getting started. The predicted war crimes of Milosevich were collected throughout the ensuing years. After the war, the kangaroo court resorted to bribery and blackmail to have Milosevich delivered to them, so that they could commence their travesty of a show trial.
When they were done, they dissolved the court.
It looks to me like they are gearing up to repeat the process with Putin.
But, sure, it was a totally legit court, issuing majestic opinions that should be studied in order to see true justice at work.
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 28 2023 21:49 utc | 120
Question for the barflies- if Ukraine had been a full member of NATO and thus subject to the famous Article 5 what, exactly, would have likely transpired differently should the SMO have been initiated under those circumstances?
Posted by: BillB | May 28 2023 17:52 utc | 62
———————————————————-
Someone here on MoA has probably answered this question already, I came in late but have not seen a response yet. By the way, and as an aside “Erdogan’s won the election.”
If Ukraine (or Georgia) were already NATO members, there would not be an SMO. A war with NATO would probably become a nuclear confrontation at some point, unless the NATO confrontation results in a coalition of the willing, and a small coalition at that. I think most NATO members have enough sense to realize what a full-scale NATO attack on Russia will produce a WWlll and the nuclear confrontation that will come with it.
Posted by: Ed | May 28 2023 21:52 utc | 121
Has anything come to light about how the two aircraft and helicopters were downed?
Posted by: Johnycomelately | May 28 2023 21:57 utc | 122
Somewhat off topic, but what are the implications of the reelection of Turkey Prime Minister Edrogen?
My sense is that Senile Sock Puppet President Biden’s handlers just attempted a “color revolution” Turkey. People might recall an attempted coup in Turkey a few years ago that Edrogen blamed in the US. The purpose was to install a new government that would permit NATO ships unfettered access to the Black Sea. Edrogen has also been problematic in other ways.
I have predictions:
Once his reelection is secure, Edrogen will withdraw from NATO.
Edrogen will demand that all US forces withdraw from Turkey.
Edrogen will not permit the US to withdraw it’s nuclear weapons that are stored at Incirlik airbase. Russia will have a new nuclear neighbor that will be independent.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 21:58 utc | 123
Bemildred @50
I recall that the USSR was able to land a probe on the surface of Venus because they had engineered some very advanced materials able to take the heat & ablation.
So I am sure they have those skills well advanced for Kinzhal etc.
Posted by: digital dinosaur | May 28 2023 21:58 utc | 124
I find this www-text, to quote, about the US Marshall plan post WW2. But U.S., been active since then to influence Europe, it was first about the: American Committee on United Europe (ACUE), then NATO, (1949) then about the OEEC, (1950ies) became at last the EEC,and today the European Union. (EU). Chairmen in the ACUE,1948 was Bill Donovan, former OSS, and Allen Dulles, former OSS/Berne, then CIA-head.
My conclusion: The energy dependence was a threat to the U.S., and Germany sustained as long as possible, with the NS1. But Ukraine is the crook here, causing a disaster for themselves and Europe, as proxy for U.S. It’s unbelievable, but they got us, and no one knows about the future. Decades to reach an European recovery,
worse than 1945. Today the Marshallplan don’t exist, but now as 100 million US. Dollars in military aid, to Ukraine. When will the Europeans understand ?
————————————————————-
-“Overall, its contribution to Europe’s recovery was relatively modest. Much of the money also flowed back to the US in the form of purchases of American goods and services, including oil, while many of the materials and equipment used to rebuild Europe were supplied by American companies, creating jobs and profits for American businesses.
The Marshall Plan also played an important role in fostering European integration, by creating new intergovernmental institutions to administer and coordinate the programme. These included the OEEC, the precursor to the OECD, and most importantly the Schuman Plan, which led to the European Coal and Steel Community, then the European Economic Community and ultimately the European Union.
The Americans also played a crucial role in promoting, also financially, the cause of European federalism through the American Committee on United Europe (ACUE), founded in 1948, whose first chairman was the former head of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) William Joseph Donovan. The vice-chairman was Allen Welsh Dulles, who would later become the head of the CIA.
—————————————————————
Posted by: Reader | May 28 2023 22:09 utc | 125
Posted by: digital dinosaur | May 28 2023 21:58 utc | 124
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera
Posted by: GT Stroller | May 28 2023 22:10 utc | 126
US incarceration statistics show a disproportionate number of Blacks in prison. However; African Americans comprise only 1/8th of the US population yet they commit about 3/5ths of all homicides and nearly 3/4ths of all gun homicides.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 20:19 utc | 100
Ok… but how do you know that 3/4 gun crimes are committed by Blacks? Only by counting the number of blacks and whites in prison – I detect a circularity here.
Posted by: Tim | May 28 2023 22:12 utc | 127
Posted by: digital dinosaur | May 28 2023 21:58 utc | 124
Yes, I hadn’t made that connection, that is a good point. I have seem those videos. Much tougher job to do, landing on Venus, and living long enough to send back video. IIRC it took them a few tries too.
Posted by: Bemildred | May 28 2023 22:12 utc | 128
@Johnycomelately | May 28 2023 21:57 utc | 122
One opinion is that it was friendly fire which explains the lack of deployed countermeasures.
Posted by: the pessimist | May 28 2023 22:14 utc | 129
US incarceration statistics show a disproportionate number of Blacks in prison. However; African Americans comprise only 1/8th of the US population yet they commit about 3/5ths of all homicides and nearly 3/4ths of all gun homicides.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 20:19 utc | 100
When I lived in Washington DC some years ago, one third of all black men between the ages of 16 to 32 were involved with law enforcement, but not as police officers or officers of the court.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 28 2023 22:21 utc | 130
Re: Putin and “war crimes.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/04/01/russia-ukraine-and-the-law-of-war-war-and-war-crimes/
One of Ritter’s longer articles at Consortium News so I won’t try to excerpt here; requires reading in full.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 28 2023 22:22 utc | 131
re: Mearsheimer talk on 22/5/23
It was linked by “A Skeptic” on Substack.
#1 I find it interesting that Mearsheimer for whatever reason is uninformed enough to buy that AFU had the “upper hand throughout 2022.
#2 to compare this war to WWI trench warfare is like to compare F-86 Sabre and F-35 on the basis that they both are jets.
see:
TC: 28:00
https://www.committeefortherepublic.us/
Posted by: AG | May 28 2023 22:31 utc | 132
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 28 2023 20:46 utc | 105
Would you or Elmer Fudd like to place a wager on the percentage of Black Americans locked up for NON-violent offenses? And are you aware that Blacks are more likely to be over-charged, prosecuted, forced into plea bargains and get longer sentences than whites for the exact same crimes? The rates are even higher in some states to the extent that something like 90% of all prisoners are Black and most of them are in for non-violent crimes, including possession of drugs despite the fact that drug use is actually higher in the white population.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 28 2023 22:31 utc | 133
Posted by: Tim | May 28 2023 22:12 utc | 127
No, thanks to Obama’s decision to treat firearm fatalities as a disease the CDC were instructed to record them. Trouble was the database was public and could be interrogated online. That I think has changed, but when I looked two years ago you could cross-reference causes of death with race and find that 53% of gun-related homicides were committed by just 12% of the population (black-African).
Posted by: Milites | May 28 2023 22:32 utc | 134
53% of gun-related homicides were committed by just 12% of the population (black-African).
Posted by: Milites | May 28 2023 22:32 utc | 134
And 85-95% of the victims in those cases were also African Americans -and- personally known to the perp, correct? What can ya say? If the cops aren’t there to apply “justice” then there are enough guns in this country for people to engage in little ‘vigilantism’ amirite?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 28 2023 22:43 utc | 135
“There are still a few ballots to count, so not all is over …”
Fox Election Dest declares Biden the winner in Arizona (with maybe 30% of the vote tally in.)
Not a fan of Erdogan, but he represents Turkii far better than the CIA plant ever would.
As to Black Crime rates in the U.S.A. Blacks are 1/8 of the population true. But they also commit the vast majority of their crimes against 1/8th of the population – other blacks.
Posted by: kupkee | May 28 2023 22:43 utc | 136
Ok… but how do you know that 3/4 gun crimes are committed by Blacks? Only by counting the number of blacks and whites in prison – I detect a circularity here.
Posted by: Tim | May 28 2023 22:12 utc | 127
Not entirely unreasonable to make such speculations. However; the jury system that ensures that most Black suspects are judged by predominantly Black jurors ensures a much lower conviction rate for Blacks rather than Whites. This is particularly true if the victim or victims are White.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 22:54 utc | 137
@ abrogard | May 28 2023 21:22 utc | 116
Rolo Slavskiy? Ugh.
Nevermind. 🙂
So far there are so many interpretations there that is confusing to the original Kinzhal designers, probably.
Simplicius76 and pavewayIV did some deeper research, that just might explain some issues there on how the community thinks the thingy works. Since it is a bit modified Iskander that again comes out of Oka SS-23 Spider etc.
I do not want to go deep into the plasma physics or an argument there.
But there is pretty clearly explained, on a Western tech page. They base their hypersonic vehicles on cooled alloys, as titanium.
In 2003 there were experiments in RF space program with graphite shielding re-entry vehicles.
Graphite has a melting point at around 3600° Celsius. Some graphite composites even more. And overheated graphite turns into gas, so it is an ideal material for something flying fast and hot.
So I suspect that a thick graphite shielding might be used on Kinzhal to be able to withstand ionised heated gas flow well within the lower, denser atmosphere.
Thus, apart from what smart people of the internet claim, I am pretty much inclined that Kinzhal has a slam mode too, without the need to slow down at all. I also suspect that there might be a few different payloads for different purposes.
Plus the comms question. When very hot apparently they get encased in a ‘plasma field’, whatever that is and radio signals cannot penetrate it.
Those issues are solved. Link is detailed, but in general a short summary there explains how. It is complicated and not easy, but very doable already some years ago:
Using the definition of 110 dBm one can see, that it is possible to receive a signal with an attenuation about 0−3. Also, it is possible to use a much bigger antenna on the vehicle than in the case of a handheld device.
In this case, it is even possible to receive a signal using the continuous rather than pulsed regime for a klystron pump (microwave tubes). So even at the angles far from optimal, one can receive GPS signals. Further, we used maximum value 110 dB0.
Schematic plot of beam diffraction of the plasma thickness. If the plasma sheath is thinner, the angular dependence is broader. Available on the open market are klystron amplifiers with the following characteristics 14.0-14.5 GHz, 3 kV “from the vehicle” case, because of sensitive land based receivers, all we need is to have a reasonable signal.
Posted by: whirlX | May 28 2023 22:57 utc | 138
@Don Firineach #74
I suppose to establish “facts on the ground” and prepare Crimea both for a cutoff of land routes (which happened) and for a possible attack from the west/West. It’s pretty speculative anyway, Article 5 has never been invoked against a state actor.
Posted by: BillB | May 28 2023 19:11 utc | 79
Sevestapol. Major warm water military port. They will never ever let US grab it.
Posted by: Mary | May 28 2023 22:59 utc | 139
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 22:54 utc | 137
the majority of crimes are plea bargained. cmon. in earlier years the same smears were made against Irish, Italians and Jews as being innately criminal. biggest reason for the huge number of prisoners is the private prison system and the drug war.
Posted by: pretzelattack | May 28 2023 23:11 utc | 140
A Christian perspective:
Covid was the beginning of the Great Tribulation mentioned in Revelation. The armies of the world then gather against Israel – possibly two major groups. Atomic weapons seem to be used. They are dashed by God. Jesus returns.
We watch keenly the emergence of WW3 – collective West versus Russian sphere.
For us, this is an incredibly interesting time. Time-frame to end – no idea. Things get more clear closer to the end. We can feel in our Spirit that the age is nearing it’s climax.
Posted by: dnomsed | May 28 2023 23:11 utc | 141
Posted by: Depolrable Commisar | May 28 2023 19:22 utc | 84
The same stats and thinking were applied to the Irish late 1800’s-early 1900’s. Strangely the statistical relevance has completely disappeared as they improved their franchise.
Posted by: MillerJ | May 28 2023 23:12 utc | 142
“demanding a refund” “200 million per person”. where do you get this horseshit.
Posted by: pretzelattack | May 28 2023 23:14 utc | 143
No book is ‘more accurate’ than what has been proved beyond reasonable doubt in public, impartial and fair proceedings before an international court.
Posted by: JB | May 28 2023 21:11 utc | 111
that process you describe has nothing to do with the international court.
Posted by: pretzelattack | May 28 2023 23:15 utc | 144
Tom_Q_Collins@133
It is very late in the historical day to have to be telling people that the discrimination against Black people in the United States, which has been pretty well institutional for centuries, and has been a founding fact of the civilisation since Reconstruction fizzled out, continues.
The figures that Elmer Fudd cites and have so excited the DP, that he appears to have laid anti-semitism away for the hour, are fairly obvious proof not that Black men are criminal but that US law enforcement is still, primarily, a means of keeping the descendants of slaves (not to mention their masters, overseers etc) beaten down. As much as a spectacle as a violent tactic.
The peculiar disgrace of the US ‘Justice’ system is that it is designed to maintain the oligarchy in power with impunity; as a group, with every possible reason to be embittered and opposed to the system which was developed to treat them as beasts of burden, the blacks are the first to be subject to police violence, prosecutorial corruption and mistreatment in the Jim Crow Gulag (which has always been by orders of magnitude worse than anything devised in either Bolshevik or Tsarist Russia).
So corrupt is US society that this persecution of black people is held to be a positive benefit for disempowered whites. In part this is because it reassures them of their ‘middle’ position in a society in which they are in fact as lowly as any other proletariat. In part it is because sharing in the persecution of black people is seen as a badge of privilege.
None of these crime figures comes close to measuring the incidence of criminality in society. In fact the vast majority of all offences against either property or person are committed by the wealthy ‘elites’ either directly or through their ruthless agents. That they are immune from punishment has a great deal to do with their ability to deflect attention away from their scandalous behaviour and focus the blame for its consequences on the weakest, politically, in society.
Posted by: bevin | May 28 2023 23:21 utc | 145
Tim | May 28 2023 19:22 utc | 83
Why doesn’t Russia show some satellite photos of the damage?
Misquoting “West of England Andy | May 27 2023 20:04 utc | 44” It’s probably too much to ask for Russia to post any verifiable links to back up…..
You think this is a game ?
Peek a boo ! I can seee yoouu…
Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | May 28 2023 23:22 utc | 146
Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 22:54 utc | 137
Do a tenth of those convicted actually enjoy the rare privilege of trial by jury? I rather doubt it.
Posted by: bevin | May 28 2023 23:26 utc | 147
Poverty is the overlooked corollary in gun violence stats by race.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/poverty-by-race
Posted by: Willow | May 28 2023 23:28 utc | 148
“demanding a refund” “200 million per person”. where do you get this horseshit.
Posted by: pretzelattack | May 28 2023 23:14 utc | 143
I get the $200 million per person directly from the demands by Black Lives Matter from the City of San Francisco. Yes, this demand is insane.
The idea of repatriating to Africa and demanding a refund is a joke informed by the fact that Europeans never enslaved Black Africans. Europeans simply purchased people who had already been enslaved by other Africans.
The crime statistics regarding disparities in homicide rates are EXTREMELY well documented. Mortality statistics are in nearly perfect agreement with crime statistics. The US doesn’t have a problem with the KKK going on safari in African American neighborhoods to kill Black people. If this were true, it would be well documented. However; the US does have a significant fraction of homicides of Whites by Blacks that are obviously racially motivated.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 23:29 utc | 149
“Erotic online service OnlyFans increased payments to the Ukrainian budget by 2 times – MP Yaroslav Zheleznyak
“In 2023, the platform paid $620,000 in taxes to the budget of Ukraine, while 2022. this amount was $305,000.
“The service charges users for access to the content of the authors, of which 80% of the fees go to the creator of the materials, and 20% to the platform.
“In other words, this year Ukrainian women show their charms, to those who like to look at them, more often and are in great demand.
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/2856
Using “Code” @ MoA
“Threat intelligence”= https://www.leefang.com/p/private-spies-hired-by-the-fbi-and
Private Spies Hired by the FBI and Corporate Firms Infiltrate Discord, Reddit, WhatsApp
Leading “threat intelligence” firms are creating fake online personas to gain access to every corner of the web…
>…”In one video posted by CyberInt, an analyst for the firm discusses her approach to go into online communities and “detect threat actors when they are young or starting out at 14 or 15, that’s when I start observing and documenting”.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 28 2023 23:30 utc | 150
bevin | May 28 2023 23:21 utc | 145
You’re responding to someone you used a racial slur just yesterday so I doubt he appreciates your points
Posted by: Cynic | May 28 2023 23:31 utc | 151
They talk about another revolution in Russia, yet fail to see the revoution in ukraine thats still ongoing, since 2014, when a large percentage of the country’s population, in East ukraine and Crimea, rose up against the kiev nazi regime and asserted control over their own lives.
THIS HAS BEEN THE REAL REVOLUTION!
Glory to Deonetsk, Glory to Lugansk, Glory to Crimea!
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 28 2023 23:32 utc | 152
A bit off-topic but it looks like the conflict might be spreading to Russia-friendly Iran and Serbia which are now increasingly involved in clashes and perhaps more with their US-armed neighbours Kosovo and Afghanistan.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 28 2023 23:32 utc | 153
@Posted by: abrogard | May 28 2023 21:25 utc | 117
Well said, absent of a class analysis and a proper understanding of the racist US legal system (e.g. “crack” sentencing many time worse than powdered cocaine sentencing), and the myriad of crimes allowed for the rich and powerful Fudd’s musings are just the usual racist BS.
NEW REPORT FINDS CLASS IS A MORE POTENT PREDICTOR OF INCARCERATION THAN RACE. BUT RACISM DRIVES IT.
The bolded pieces tell the truth, a class based system with deep racism when it comes to sentencing.
1. Whether or not men aged 24-32 years have ever been to jail or prison
2. Whether or not men are jailed after being arrested
3. Whether or not men have spent more than a month in jail or prison
4. Whether or not men have spent more than a year in jail or prison
In order to do this, he utilized data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent to Adult Health (known as Add Health), which followed a nationally representative sample of Americans who were in grades seven through 12 between the years 1994 and 1995. The fourth wave of this sample was collected in 2008, when these Americans were between the ages of 24 and 32.
The dataset collected information on respondents that includes race, whether they have been incarcerated, and for how long. To compose his class variable, he created a composite that includes educational attainment, homeownership status, household income, and other similar categories. He also ran results through seven different models with the variables slightly differently composed.
His research found that “while class has a large and statistically significant effect on the first three outcomes, race — once one controls for class — does not.” In the fourth category, whether a man has spent more than a year in jail or prison, he found that race does have a significant impact.
Even in the fourth category, Lewis found that “though for all but one of the seven models the effect of being in the middle rather than bottom class level was stronger than the effect of being white rather than black.” In other words, middle-class and rich people were equally as likely to have served more than a year in prison regardless of race, but a poor black person was more likely than a poor white person to do so.
But central to Alexander’s argument is the history of that oppression, beginning with her exploration of an economic system that drove blacks into poverty, undergirded by a system of racism intended to split poor whites from poor blacks, to prevent the formation of a transracial populist party of the working class. Alexander highlights the destruction of the post-Reconstruction Populist Party, which was a serious attempt at a trans-racial coalition. Its upper-class opposition used explicitly racist tactics to divide the white and black poor, helping to set off the trend that carries through to today.
Lewis’s conclusion is similar to that of scholar Cedric Johnson (who is cited as the competing view to Alexander in the report). Johnson, a professor of African-American studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago, argues that “contemporary patterns of incarceration and police violence are classed in a manner that is not restricted to blacks and whose central dynamics cannot be explained through institutional racism.” Instead, Johnson sees the modern prison state in the United States as a means by which Americans who cannot find decent employment and living standards are discarded.
The explanation around sentencing bias is particularly compelling in light of research released by the United States Sentencing Commission late last year. Its November 2017 report looked at federal sentencing data and concluded that “black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders” between fiscal years 2012 and 2016.
This does not take into account the differential sentencing for crack vs. powdered cocaine which are different offences.
Would you or Elmer Fudd like to place a wager on the percentage of Black Americans locked up for NON-violent offenses? And are you aware that Blacks are more likely to be over-charged, prosecuted, forced into plea bargains and get longer sentences than whites for the exact same crimes? The rates are even higher in some states to the extent that something like 90% of all prisoners are Black and most of them are in for non-violent crimes, including possession of drugs despite the fact that drug use is actually higher in the white population.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 28 2023 22:31 utc | 133
There are rebuttals for some of your facts. The usual consideration is that the black defendant has priors or an aggravating circumstance. But forget all that and focus on one primary issue. If more rigorous law enforcement is the norm for the Black community, is it a good thing or a bad thing? Turns out that in the neighborhood I live in, the locals would not be the slightest bit bothered to learn that criminals were punished more than other areas. But then the locals are not commonly involved in criminal activity and they see law enforcement as a service.
By the way:
Clearance rate is the percentage of the crimes that are solved.
If Black can benefit from softer law enforcement, then they are getting it good and hard down in Chicago “In 2021, there were 800 homicides counted. The clearance rate by prosecution was 21.7% in predominately Black neighborhoods, yet 45.6% in predominantly White neighborhoods.” Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Posted by: Jmaas | May 28 2023 23:44 utc | 155
@Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 21:42 utc | 119
1. Stop polluting the Ukraine thread, we have the other thread for such discussions
2. Either back your statements up with actual references and data that can be addressed or you will simply be seen as a racist (or a troll). I have provided the class based counterpoint to your unsupported racialized statements on crime statistics, done by actual researchers using actual data.
3. You have absolutely no basis for stating that black people are killing whites for racist reasons on a significant scale, none. Either put up ot shut up.
If you want delusional thinking, take a look at this:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/if-russia-wins/
1. “Ukrainian units have performed much better than their Russian counterparts”.
2. “Western equipment including tanks supplied to Ukraine are superior to Russian.”
But it reluctantly admits that Russia is still going to win, so
3. “Russia can keep Crimea, the Donbass, and a land bridge between the two” but
4. “Must pay Ukraine $1.5 trillion in compensation” aaaaaaand
5. “Give ‘occupied East Prussia’ (Kaliningrad) to Ukraine so it has a coastline on two seas.”
Why not throw in Vladivostok as well?
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 28 2023 23:49 utc | 157
• 55% of those arrested NYC in the 1850′s were Irish-born
• 35% of the prostitutes arrested in NYC in 1858 were Irish-born.
• 70% of all admissions to Bellevue Hospital (NYC’s public hospital) in the 1850s were Irish
• 85% of foreign-born admissions to Bellevue Hospital (NYC’s public hospital) in the 1850s were Irish
• 63% of foreign-born admissions to the NYC Alms House (Poor House) 1849-1858 were Irish
• 56% of all NYC Prison commitments in 1858 were Irish-born
• 74% of foreign-born NYC Prison commitments in 1858 were Irish-born
• 70% of persons convicted for disorderly conduct in the NYC Courts of Special Sessions, 1859, were Irish-born
• 74% of persons convicted for drunk and disorderly conduct in the NYC Courts of Special Sessions, 1859, were Irish-born
And the stats were no better for Chicago, Boston etc
Posted by: MillerJ | May 28 2023 23:50 utc | 158
Doesn’t look like the Ukie Thread, but it says it is at the top, so here’s what Lavrov said in answer to a media question today:
Question: The key topic of the week is the supply of weapons. Fighter jets have already been promised. But before they were afraid to even talk about it. Tanks, fighters… Where is the limit of this escalation?
Sergey Lavrov: Previously, they were afraid to talk about anything other than helmets and bulletproof vests. This is what German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said.
This is an unacceptable escalation. I think that there are reasonable people in the West who understand this. But everything is dictated by Washington, London and their satellites located within the European Union. First of all, the Baltic countries and Poland, which directly “on the ground” implement the task set by the United States: to weaken Russia, to inflict a “strategic defeat” on it.
In the political science circles of the West, there is already talk about “decolonizing” Russia, meaning the dismemberment of our country. Playing with fire. There can be no doubt about it.
I hope that reasonable people will nevertheless move away from reckless support for the neo-Nazi regime created by the West itself.
Recently, I heard a speech by Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US Armed Forces, General Milley, who spoke cautiously. For the first time, something was said from the lips of an official that is not categorical support for Vladimir Zelensky’s peace formula. He said that, apparently, Ukraine cannot count on the return of all its territories within the borders of 1991 in the foreseeable future. This is a step forward towards understanding reality “on the ground”.
So, what the West must do is get rid of all the unreasonable people and replace them with reasonable people to put an end to the crisis and place a period at the End of the Age of Plunder. Given that arch criminals like Kissinger live 100 years, this process will probably last at least a generation, perhaps two, which means the Global Fracture will occur, there will be one major (RoW) and one rather minor (Dollar) Bloc, with the major Bloc adopting Xi’s Global Initiatives that render hegemony untenable.
Kinzal maneuver or control. Some random jinking in plasma phase may be done, maybe, from RNG or pre-programmed, ie “control” is internal. Maneuver in plasma> I can imagine two methods that might work,no,three. LRG and accelerometers could carry the missile through atmospheric deceleration into non plasma phase. Terminal by sat-nav and fancy algorithms… I speculate too about navigation onboard computer and fractions> Is Kinzal brain a base 3? Just a silly idea. But base 3 does fractions better than a base 2.
Posted by: Walter | May 28 2023 23:55 utc | 160
I think that I have said this before, but B needs to be very careful of relatively new posters making anti-semitic, racist etc. comments as this is the classic game of making a site look full of “bad” people providing a reason to sensor it (e.g. de-emphasize in searches, label it as a “bad” site)) or shut it down altogether.
Its CLASS not race that is the predominant driver of differences in wealth, income, power and general treatment in the US. The use of racism and now a racist version of “anti-racism”, plus all the identity stuff is used to divide and conquer the working and middle class so that they do not focus on the real problem – the 1% and the other 10-19% that are their courtiers and careerist servants.Thats why the Occupy Wall Street movement was shut down so fast when it was seen that it could not be coopted or simply made to go away and the new identity politics and the racist “anti-racism” suddenly blossomed straight afterwards.
Thats why MLK was killed when he moved onto economic issues, and Bobby Kennedy when he threatened to build a rainbow coalition.
@Posted by: karlof1 | May 28 2023 23:54 utc | 159
So, what the West must do is get rid of all the unreasonable people and replace them with reasonable people to put an end to the crisis and place a period at the End of the Age of Plunder. Given that arch criminals like Kissinger live 100 years, this process will probably last at least a generation, perhaps two, which means the Global Fracture will occur, there will be one major (RoW) and one rather minor (Dollar) Bloc, with the major Bloc adopting Xi’s Global Initiatives that render hegemony untenable.
It will be a dark age in the West, as the unreasonable elites continue to plunder in ever more extreme ways at home as their foreign plundering is forestalled. Probably two generations, it always seems that the truly evil live the longest unless killed. Dick Cheney is 82 with his artificial heart pump going strong it seems. Charles Koch is 88. ZBig made it to 89, Kissinger’s soul died a long time ago,
Gonzalo Lira.
Beyond contacting your congress critters regarding Gonzalo Lira, try a twitter campaign to get @elonmusk, @catturd2 and @kimdotcom to tweet about his status as a “disappeared” in Ukraine.
Here’s Elon’s tweet today…
I have reservations about him, but these kind of tweets are annoying exactly the people who once controlled twitter (and still control other social media)
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1662667558539886592
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 0:07 utc | 163
Posted by: Roger | May 28 2023 23:59 utc | 161
(Speaking to you and others who sing in the same tenor)
I think that I have said this before, but B needs to be very careful of relatively new posters making anti-semitic …
Please stop harping on about this ‘anti-semitic’ nonsense.
This site heavily favours the pro-Palestinian, Syrian, Lebanese and Iraqi causes and therefore ‘anti-semitism’ is essentially non-existent.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 29 2023 0:12 utc | 164
So, what the West must do is get rid of all the unreasonable people and replace them with reasonable people to put an end to the crisis and place a period at the End of the Age of Plunder.
Posted by: karlof1 | May 28 2023 23:54 utc | 159
Everybody has to be dumped or the culture will not change. The cure for the US is to fire every last neoconservative. Most of the top generals are go along get along guys. Get rid of them a little at a time. Dealing with the CIA would be tougher and more dangerous.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 29 2023 0:14 utc | 165
UKRAINE THREAD
UKRAINE THREAD
UKRAINE THREAD
UKRAINE THREAD
There’s *two* threads.
One is the UKRAINE THREAD where topics pertinent to UKRAINE are discussed.
There is a *second* thread where any and every topic across the entire universe is discussed.
There’s “smart” people frequenting this blog.
WHY THE FUCK IS IT SO HARD to post UKRAINE issues in the UKRAINE thread and post any other topic in the second thread.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 0:16 utc | 166
Russian Dagger strikes on underground munition depot midstaken for Kiev 2.7 earthquake LOL! Those Ukrainians are some wacky guys
Posted by: sln2002 | May 29 2023 0:21 utc | 167
Posted by: karlof1 | May 28 2023 21:19 utc | 114
The advancement of War Tech makes it clear that the world must end the Hegemonic Era, the Era of Plunder, and evolve beyond conflict.
Sadly, the opposite will happen.
The advancement of war tech will simply result in the democratization of war.
The desperate grab for the earth’s last remaining resources (to fuel that same war tech industry) will impart unstoppable momentum to global warfare.
All a man can do is draw his lines and defend them …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 29 2023 0:23 utc | 168
@Mary | May 28 2023 22:59 utc | 139
Thank you Mary!
My questions to BillB were rhetorical – Crimea has been Russian since 1770 or thereabouts since it was captured for the Russian Empire by Peter Lacy, an Irishman who left Ireland after the Treaty of Limerick – which the British broke in no time and subjected the Irish to the odious Penal Laws … the Irish could have done with Peter staying at home!
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 29 2023 0:24 utc | 169
Posted by: karlof1 | May 28 2023 23:54 utc | 159
So, what the West must do is get rid of all the unreasonable people and replace them with reasonable people …
“Reasonable” people are the ones who got us here.
Reasonable people in the service of Evil.
Unreasonable people called for world peace.
But because they couldn’t put their irrational desire for peace on “reasonable” basis of argumentation they were deemed “hippies”.
Reason, like Science, serves both Moloch and the Messiah …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 29 2023 0:30 utc | 170
Many thanks to various distinguished barflies for the enlightening responses to my query on Kinzhal properties.
Your generosity is greatly appreciated.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | May 29 2023 0:32 utc | 172
Plasma is formed only on the front side (see Buran and Space Shuttle).
Only on the front side is the shielding.
On the backside in direction of the orbit (satellite) there is no plasma.
Conection via satellite is posible
Posted by: theo | May 29 2023 0:32 utc | 173
@MillerJ | May 28 2023 23:50 utc | 158
Irish Famine in the 1840s …
Million at least died of starvation …
~2 million, mostly poor and destitute, emigrated, most to US at the time …
Correlation: Class, Poverty and Petty Crime and Prison
Then they worked their way up …. even became Presidents!!!
Correlation: Blacks in US – Slavery – Now – Class, Poverty and Petty Crime and Privatised Profitable Prison
etc etc etc ….
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 29 2023 0:39 utc | 174
@ karlof1 | May 28 2023 23:54 utc | 159
Reminds me of a comment by George Bernard Shaw ….
“Reasonable men adjust themselves to the world; unreasonable men adjust the world to themselves: it follows that all progress and change depends on unreasonable men.”
Wonder what would Lavrov make of this?
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 29 2023 0:44 utc | 175
The advancement of War Tech makes it clear that the world must end the Hegemonic Era, the Era of Plunder, and evolve beyond conflict.
Sadly, the opposite will happen.
The advancement of war tech will simply result in the democratization of war.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 29 2023 0:23 utc | 168
What I wonder about is if the big dog in the fight will automatically misbehave in the manner in which we are. My take on the United States is that our political system is not a good choice for running an empire. The British probably did better because until recently they had a more elitist system that did not respond as easily to the money grubbing capitalist, which they also had.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 29 2023 0:47 utc | 176
“2.7 earthquake Kiev”
Posted by: sln2002 | May 29 2023 0:21 utc | 167
Not only recent earthquake in Eastern Ukraine.
In the evening of Friday May 26th, 2023, a shallow MAG-4.0 earthquake hit under land 35 kilometer from Poltava in Ukraine. Another country near the epicenter is Russia.
May 26, 2023 21:38 (Kiev Time)
2 days ago – May 26, 2023 18:38 Universal Time.
Coordinates 49°29’24″N 34°5’24″E
MAG-4.0
https://earthquakelist.org/news/2023/05/26/m4-0-earthquake-ukraine-783139/
Posted by: Jerr | May 29 2023 0:54 utc | 177
southfront: Wagner revealed results of military operations in Ukraine, Mar 2022-May 2023 accountability [table]
Posted by: sln2002 | May 29 2023 1:10 utc | 178
@Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 28 2023 21:42 utc | 119
1. Stop polluting the Ukraine thread, we have the other thread for such discussions
2. Either back your statements up with actual references and data that can be addressed or you will simply be seen as a racist (or a troll). I have provided the class based counterpoint to your unsupported racialized statements on crime statistics, done by actual researchers using actual data.
3. You have absolutely no basis for stating that black people are killing whites for racist reasons on a significant scale, none. Either put up ot shut up.
Posted by: Roger | May 28 2023 23:44 utc | 156
You asked for it:
https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezashr/asp/off_selection.asp
Using this data access application will require you to think. I can provide other sources if you can’t figure it out.
You complaint that this is the Ukraine thread is valid. I posted here primarily because there is no recent “Not Ukraine” thread. However; the internal strife within the US will affect the outcome of the Ukrainian war just as the Russian revolution affected the outcome of the First World War.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 1:15 utc | 179
Posted by: Jerr | May 29 2023 0:54 utc | 178
That earthquake is screaming for scare quotes!
Posted by: sln2002 | May 29 2023 1:17 utc | 180
A bit off-topic but it looks like the conflict might be spreading to Russia-friendly Iran and Serbia which are now increasingly involved in clashes and perhaps more with their US-armed neighbours Kosovo and Afghanistan.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 28 2023 23:32 utc | 153
This might explain why the US left so much military equipment and weaponry in Afghanistan. Of course part of the problem is the US Deep State intentionally fomenting conflicts around the world rather than reverting to isolationism.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 1:21 utc | 181
Why are people losing sleep over this Kinzhal thing? It’s just an adapted version of the Iskander.
How come Russian drones still causing havoc if ANY AD missile systems are working adequately?
Why is the other Patriot system not online?
Anyone believing Patriot took out a Kinzhal needs to DM me. I have this bridge for sale.
Posted by: Suresh | May 29 2023 1:30 utc | 182
@Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 1:15 utc | 180
Pathetic try Fudd, at obfuscation by trying to waste my time with a raw dataset when there are reams of actual analyses already carried out in peer reviewed journals and by other reputable analysts. Its seems obvious that you have not tried to get abreast of the basic literature and certainly not countervailing variables. You certainly have made no effort to deal with the article that I presented that covers a thorough academic analysis of the kind of cross-variable work required to properly answer such questions, that takes many months or even years to do correctly.
I am an academic researcher and understand the amount of effort and intellectual ethics required for such thorough analyses, which does not equal throwing a single sourced data set at someone. Your simplistic notion that “correlation equals causation” when there are multiple countervailing variables shows either basic statistical ignorance or intellectual dishonesty.
Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 1:15 utc | 180
posted here primarily because there is no recent “Not Ukraine” thread
Fuck u.
Posted by b on May 28, 2023 at 13:42 UTC | Permalink
b_ Use as open (not Ukraine related) thread
The NOT UKRAINE thread is *exactly* as current as this UKRAINE THREAD = Posted by b at 13:43 UTC
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 29 2023 1:35 utc | 184
@Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 28 2023 23:49 utc | 157
The American Conservative Advisory Board includes Jeff Sessions and Tucker Carlson, James Pierson from the Adam Smith Society (I am convinced that such scholars haven’t actually read Adam Smith), Timothy Carney from the American Enterprise Institute etc. The true belivers, who would need very strong anti-psychotics for their paranoid schizophrenia and delusion of grandeur.
@ Roger | May 29 2023 1:34 utc | 184
Thought you were going to hit him with a multi-factorial Kinzhal or a structural equation F16 there for a mo –
+1 more
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 29 2023 1:49 utc | 186
i’m celebrating erdogan. the other one could have led to turkiye missiles aimed at russia and surely would have led to tukiye aligning with the west. the guy said it out loud. he wanted turkiye to be a part of western democracies. what a tool.
i’m probably not a natural born erdogan cheerleader, but man, i am today. big phew!
Posted by: polarbear4 | May 29 2023 1:49 utc | 187
news update: On the night of May 28, the Russian army launched 59 Shahed kamikaze drones targeting Ukraine, 58 of which were destroyed by the Ukrainian troops. The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine published the updated data on Facebook. . .here
They missed one!!. . .s/
Posted by: Don Bacon | May 29 2023 1:51 utc | 188
Posted by: Roger | May 29 2023 1:34 utc | 184
Roger
Spoken like a person whose opinion, especially of himself, proceeds and poisons their thought process.
You may be surprised how many here can match, perhaps even exceed your academic credentials.
Aware are you that half of peer reviewed research is not reproducible (verifiable); and most of the remainder no one thinks is worth the effort because it’s so biased by the predetermined opinions of the “academic” investigators.
Just sayin
Posted by: Jerr | May 29 2023 1:59 utc | 190
“…2 million, mostly poor and destitute, emigrated, most to US at the time …” Don Firineach@175
Are you sure about that? My sense is that most of those ‘coffin ships’ were bound for Canada, St John, Quebec or Montreal. And the route to the States was overland, often by foot.
It’s been a while since I looked into the question seriously but I seem to recall that Boston, for example, would not allow the ships to dock there.
Posted by: bevin | May 29 2023 2:02 utc | 191
“bevin | May 28 2023 23:21 utc | 145
“You’re responding to someone you used a racial slur just yesterday so I doubt he appreciates your points” Cynic@151
Are you saying that I used a racist slur against TomQ?
Please explain what you mean.
What was the ‘slur’?
Where did I make it?
So far as I know I never employ racist arguments, insults or ‘slurs.
Nor do I make accusations without evidence.
Posted by: bevin | May 29 2023 2:11 utc | 192
Arch Bungle | May 29 2023 0:30 utc | 171–
Thanks for your reply. So, was Hobbes reasonable or unreasonable? But read this interview of Michael Hudson by Ben Norton, “The Arc of Time: Pro-Creditor History” before answering and consider another alternative Hobbes omits. Yes, the argument surrounding this point lurks in the background, as Either / Or has never been seen as satisfactory.
Posted by: Johnycomelately | May 28 2023 21:57 utc | 122 ‘Has anything come to light about how the two aircraft and helicopters were downed?”
Patriot PAC 2 is a good guess. The PAC 2 missile had the range if they moved a launcher close to the border, which in that area had been pretty quiet. The Russians had been using strike packages to launch those glide bombs from that location on a regular basis. Each Russian strike package had a similar footprint. Ukraine had watched the package go though its paces a number of times. They moved a launcher close to the border and after that they waited for the next Russian attack. The Patriot launcher is self contained and takes about 30 minutes to setup.
Since 1993 the Patriot has had remote launch capability. The Patriot doesn’t have see what it is shooting it. The missile can be launched with a preprogramed initial flyout. It can go to some point and then get cued with additional instructions or if the missiles’ own radar then picks up a target it doesn’t need anything from the outside giving it instructions.
Posted by: Tim | May 29 2023 2:20 utc | 194
The American Conservative Advisory Board includes Jeff Sessions and Tucker Carlson, James Pierson from the Adam Smith Society (I am convinced that such scholars haven’t actually read Adam Smith),…
Posted by: Roger | May 29 2023 1:43 utc | 186
I got into reading Adam Smith. I thought it a tough slog and not worth the trouble. In the real world that we live in, he is known almost exclusively for his “invisible hand” metaphor. Essentially, it is an argument for capitalism with an underlying moral premise, put forward in an era when such thinking was not common. He first published the doctrine in 1776.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 29 2023 2:26 utc | 195
Don Firineach | May 29 2023 0:44 utc | 176–
Can’t say what Lavrov would say but IMO it would be something like this:
Reasonable People know how to use the world for the benefit of themselves and all others making the unreasonable people unpopular. Which will be the In Group attracting most people and which will be the Out Group?
THE DRINKS ARE ON ME GUYS!
Erdogan wins! USA warmongers LOSE.
Get your free drinks at the bar guys.
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 29 2023 2:30 utc | 197
** Posted by: Cynic | May 28 2023 23:31 utc | 151 **
I did *not* post the above indicated comment.
Posted by: Cynic | May 29 2023 2:38 utc | 198
Some videos for today.
Artillery and tanks from the Russian military’s South group fire on enemy positions:
https://rutube.ru/video/49e81acd2287e8f7f77fd449d8bb3c71/
Another mass surrender of Kiev regime troops:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/0F_Lp83JGqpYHDkC:5
Russian missile strike destroyed a large Kiev regime ammunition depot in Zhitomir:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/hx69IusqMKSc/
Ukrainians beat Kiev regime military man for attempting to conscript them:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/lONevkBP7REu/
Russia’s Msta-B howitzer in action:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/Msta_2805:0
Russian forces destroy Ukrainian firing point with anti-tank missile in Avdeevka direction:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/Ufpatm:6
Posted by: Nate | May 29 2023 2:48 utc | 199
Pathetic try Fudd, at obfuscation by trying to waste my time with a raw dataset when there are reams of actual analyses already carried out in peer reviewed journals and by other reputable analysts. Its seems obvious that you have not tried to get abreast of the basic literature and certainly not countervailing variables. You certainly have made no effort to deal with the article that I presented that covers a thorough academic analysis of the kind of cross-variable work required to properly answer such questions, that takes many months or even years to do correctly.
I am an academic researcher and understand the amount of effort and intellectual ethics required for such thorough analyses, which does not equal throwing a single sourced data set at someone. Your simplistic notion that “correlation equals causation” when there are multiple countervailing variables shows either basic statistical ignorance or intellectual dishonesty.
Posted by: Roger | May 29 2023 1:34 utc | 184
I noticed on your profile that your “academic credentials” include Anthropogenic Global Warming Theology. This is unimpressive to me. There are alleged researchers who attempt to massage the data to exonerate the African-American community but their “research” is politically motivated fraud. As others have pointed out, many ethnic groups who have immigrated to America have indulged in elevated levels of criminal behavior during the first generation before assimilating. African-Americans have defied this process for ten generations. The statistics on extra-racial homicide are well documented and profoundly incriminating. Investigation of motives are of course to politically incorrect to be permitted.
Fuck U too!
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 29 2023 3:00 utc | 200