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May 21, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-122
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@ JustAMaverick, §4:
You´re gloom is justified but, fortunately, I think sanity will prevail thanks to the cool heads in Moscow, especially Putin and Lavrov. The world is very grateful to those two gentlemen.
The now almost psychotic (thanks to totalitarian media propaganda) English are driving this from the City of London, with a mercantilist “winner takes all” philosophy and a modus operandi no different from the Mafia´s ´plato o plombo´, just a little more sophisticated. The chaotic Mafioso “society” of corporate America follows no-one, but those currently in the driving seat, the NeoCons, are followers of the philosophy of the City of London. A thermobaric on Threadneedle Street would solve many of our problems.
Anyway, the Americans and the English are destroying themselves with their Net Zero delusions, their destruction of society and its family units by promotion of ´gender-bending´, and their counter-productive sanctions which only accelerate their own destruction.
As Sun Tzu said, when the enemy is destroying himself, don´t interrupt him.
Posted by: John Marks | May 22 2023 14:12 utc | 401
As Sun Tzu said, when the enemy is destroying himself, don´t interrupt him.
Posted by: John Marks | May 22 2023 14:12 utc | 460
Isn’t that exactly what Russia is doing? Letting the enemy destroy itself…
Posted by: ostro | May 22 2023 14:18 utc | 402
Rezident UA channel claimed that the group in Belgorod region consisted of several dozen AFVs and tanks and controlled by Budanov. Which is quite a bit larger than a regular DRG.
Also recall that Aleks on BMA also noted that a large “diversionary” attack in the Belgorod border region was possible, and they could have even allocated significant number of western tanks. Obviously that was planned for a long time, since the obviously most important lines are elsewhere than between Kharkov and Belgorod, it was mostly a PR operation.
They most hid those tanks and AFVs in Kharkov, like they did in Kharkov-Balakleya offensive last Fall. But we don’t know how much stuff they committed to this thing, in PR optics it’s bad for Russia, militarily it will/should speed up the loss of Ukraine as those assets are away from action. Russia still needs to commit or keep something in reserve to counter actions in Belgorod line.
Posted by: unimperator | May 22 2023 14:20 utc | 403
Congrats to Wagner and the Russian forces on the latest victory over the Nazi bastards. There will be no time for the enemy to gain any composure. The trolls are pretty fucking quiet about it and trying derail the topic. The west is twisting itself in knots trying to figure out how to keep the sheep convinced that Ukraine is still going to be victorious. Russia will keep rolling up victory after victory a lot quicker now. You trolls may have to sign up for active duty if the Nazis keep having so much success.
Posted by: Watzov | May 22 2023 14:21 utc | 404
Tired of the F-16 discussion. It is a fifty year old antique. We had just as well threaten RF with broadcasting endless reruns of Dallas, or bombarding them with 8-track cassette tapes.
In intervening fifty years US has largely been unable to design anything that flies. Best of the lot probably the F-22. Which was pulled out of production for good reason.
Posted by: oldhippie | May 22 2023 14:24 utc | 405
The currently on-going shelling of Donbass – esp. targeting the Donetzk City – is no further “acceptible (!).
So, what’s to do?
I don’t know yet, to stop HIMARS targeting only civilian targets (hospitals, Reginal maijors cars & offical buero builings).
So, RF is weak ! What’s about your Foot-Invantry Army ?
Puswh them away 100km away from Donetzk aream.
But You (RF) have failed to to that with power (fortificatians left of Nazis).
Do look at Your “OWN” man power resources in JUNE-23, then missing the Wagners yet everywhwere!
Strategy today is only: Safe soldiers losses for men !
That’s a good decicion.
Posted by: spare_truth2 | May 22 2023 14:34 utc | 406
Here is a Russian raid in Sumy region some days earlier, albeit smaller in size.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/CQ2eTUA2RtZN/
Posted by: unimperator | May 22 2023 14:34 utc | 407
Russia would be stupid to continue to sell USA titanium, lithium etc.
Posted by: Dulles_Did_Dallas | May 22 2023 13:15 utc | 443
Boeing has stopped buying titanium for more than a year. They have a relatively large amount until other supplier is found, even though others don’t have the same quality of alloys, that including Japan. That was the reason for the long term contract with Russia (their own words).
Now as India has become a big seller of energy for EU (not using the ultra cheap energy from Russia for anything local) and China is taking German factories like BASF, I’m sure they can proxy Russian titanium for Boeing too. Chinese workers are cheapest on the planet, energy is cheapest on the planet, BASF will have an insane profit next year. What you think Germany will do with all that profit? Give it to US.
Posted by: rk | May 22 2023 14:41 utc | 408
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ On the Situation in the #Belgorod Region⚡️
Judging by the number of armored vehicles that entered, which managed to advance to the #Kozinka – #Glotovo intersection, two tanks, one armored personnel carrier and nine armored vehicles – in total, up to an enemy company – can participate in a “PR campaign” designed to raise the morale of the AFU after the loss of #Bakhmut.
Mi-28, Mi-8 and Ka-52 have been spotted in the border area, hunting for visiting SRGs.
Naturally, all this is legendary under the “struggle for independence”, so the RDK and Freedom of Russia are going forward. But they are in charge of this, as they have recently recognized in the Western press, British specialists. We wrote back in May that the attacks of the SRG and sabotage operations in the border zone with Russia are entrusted to the officers of the Special Airborne Service of Great Britain (SAS) 2022.
Actually, the “Russian Volunteer Corps” and the “Legion of Freedom of Russia” are simulacra created by British advisers, which are designed, first of all, to cause division and confusion on the territory of the Russian Federation.
📜 RYBAR; 22 May 2023, 15:55
Posted by: Down South | May 22 2023 14:42 utc | 409
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Apparently, the Fighting has partially reached #Grayvoron⚡️
At least, the injury of the head of the administration and the appearance of a video with shooting in the private sector may indicate a shift in fighting from #Kozinka and #Glotovo to #Grayvoron itself.
The fact that the danger has not yet been eliminated is confirmed by the strings of buses sent to the Grayvoron district to evacuate civilians.
The bad thing in this situation is that the Russian side is playing from the actions of the enemy. Instead of turning the border area from the Ukrainian side into a scorched wasteland, we are waiting for the X hour to strike at clusters, rear facilities, headquarters and bases as part of an “act of retaliation”.
What is happening only shows that Russia, which started the SMO, is being overrun by small things, and forced to play by someone else’s rules.
📜 RYBAR; 22 May 2023, 16:46
Posted by: Down South | May 22 2023 14:43 utc | 410
Our source reports that the attack on Russian territory is not the last.
Although the Office of the President denies this “invasion”, but where did the “partisans” get tanks and heavy equipment from, as the OP wants to present this story. This operation is controlled by GUR and SBU.
The goal is to provoke dissatisfaction of the Russian society with the actions of the Kremlin.
The second case is to force the Russians to go on the offensive, since the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not currently have the strength to go on the broad offensive promised to everyone.
Everyone is already talking about the increased missile threat tonight.
Our source reports that the task of the DRG GUR is to keep the panic in the Belgorod region during the day. There are already reports of casualties among DRG groups.
Posted by: Down South | May 22 2023 14:48 utc | 411
Ukrainian DRG in the Belgorod region – what is known by now
The group, which, according to various sources, includes militants from the Nazi battalions “Azov”, “Kraken” and vyrus-traitors from the so-called. “RDK” and “Legion Freedom of Russia”, penetrated the territory of the border of the Belgorod region.
It is reported that the terrorists entered, moving in two tanks, one armored personnel carrier and nine armored vehicles.
The group was divided into three detachments and attacked the nearest villages – Kozinka, Glotovo, Gora-Podol.
Attacked by one of them, a detachment of border guards immediately withdrew to converted positions behind the checkpoint and took the fight. They were later joined by reinforcements.
In parallel with the physical attack, the usual virtual attack began – the enemy CIPSO and the ukrobloggers helping him unleashed an organized wave of panic on Telegram, using fakes, including, according to some reports, prepared in advance, about the complete capture of villages.
There were also spam calls to residents of the surrounding area from Kazakh numbers with panic calls to urgently leave, hacking the frequencies of local radio stations. Other enemy resources, primarily the social networks of gangs of vyrus-traitors, tried to convince residents not to leave their homes and supposedly help bring down the ruling regime in Russia.
In the villages themselves, near which the battle was taken, the evacuation was not announced. As reported directly from the scene, the situation remained as calm as possible, people left only at will, just in case, to sit out the skirmish in a safe place.
However, the battle with the bandits did not go unnoticed in Gora-Podil: two local residents in Glotovo were seriously wounded during the mortar attack that preceded the attack.
The governor of the Belgorod region Vyacheslav Gladkov and presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov made an official statement about an attempt to break through the DRG deep into the region.
He said that the supreme commander-in-chief had been notified of what had happened, that an operation was underway to eliminate the saboteurs, and that the only purpose of this enemy action was to shift attention in their own society from the defeat in the Bakhmut direction and the loss of Artyomovsk
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/47258
Posted by: Down South | May 22 2023 14:52 utc | 412
Posted by: rk | May 22 2023 14:41 utc | 467
… Germany will do with all that profit? Give it to US.
Yes – the GER will give them, but not only to the US (Billions of xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.000 $ to Raython/US and other Crimes-Forced Industrial Compexe’s (RheinMetall/DE) companies, sorry:
but those will fail !
Production capabilities all are exhausted.
But when You like a “war” for the next 5 years, you may have such a vision – so wait !
US/UK/EU seems to be a “Unity”, but Turkey PM says: NOT !
Posted by: spare_truth2 | May 22 2023 14:54 utc | 413
As Sun Tzu said, when the enemy is destroying himself, don´t interrupt him.
Posted by: John Marks | May 22 2023 14:12 utc | 460
Don’t know about Sun Tzu, but I believe it was Napoleon who said, don’t interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. Stated as the French were watching the other side form up their battle lines.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 22 2023 15:11 utc | 414
The character of military procurements in the United States is that a lot of the stuff is cost plus. Thus the contractor producing the product has a vested interest in having it cost as much as possible because it pushes up gross profits along with gross costs. The military on the other side of it has a vested interest in the device being as capable as possible, and to some extent, it is better if it costs a lot because it enhances the importance of the service that buys it. Plus (corruptly) the purchaser may end up working for the seller.
As a result of the above considerations, military stuff tends to grow in both features and cost. As a result of cost, fewer of the devices are available for the same money. The way this plays out with fighter jets is that later generations get bigger and more feature laden. The F-16 is typical of a new entrant. Still small, relatively light in features, and quite capable within its limited features. The F-35 is the other end of it. Bigger, heavier, feature laden, and very expensive.
A more old fashioned version of the F-35 is the fighter planes they took to labeling fighter-bombers. That was a fighter that had to be renamed because it got so big and heavy that it wasn’t much good as a fighter any more. But owing to sized it could carry a lot of bombs.
An older example of the same tradeoff in tanks is the honken big WWII German tanks armed with the 88 flak gun. In an even up fight they could kick the crap out of our Sherman or the much lauded Russian T-34. Aside from some side issues because they were developed quickly, the main problem with them was the Germans never had very many. Too expensive and too time consuming to build.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 22 2023 15:25 utc | 415
@El Oso de Los Llanos | May 22 2023 12:48 utc | 424
This is equivalent to saying that either you are a totalitarian or you are a sociopath.
Responsible adults, not all of whom are totalitarians, none of whom are libertarians, recognize that humans are what they are because they are social animals and so support both the greatest good for the largest number, and a rough equality of outcome, and further, that a weighted direct democracy with recognized rights and duties is the only way to achieve this in the long term. If all humans recognized this, compulsion would seldom be required Unfortunately children, libertarians and other sociopaths do not recognize or reject these realities, casting responsible adults as totalitarians for rejecting selfishness as one’s raison d’être. That does not validate such perspectives.
Posted by: Hermit | May 22 2023 15:48 utc | 416
… Russia still needs to commit or keep something in reserve to counter actions in Belgorod line.
Posted by: unimperator | May 22 2023 14:20 utc | 406
Surveillance drones running in shifts, patrolling the border, responding to emergency reports, illuminating targets for guided artillery that can cover a huge area with relatively few units spaced along the border. Counter-drone and some form of AD is also needed because attacks won’t all be of the Zelensky’s Heroes variety.
The thing is, even if peace was declared tomorrow, there would be an absolute need for border security of at least the sort just described. There is no way any of the clowns who came across the border and started shooting should be able to escape back to Ukraine.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 22 2023 16:18 utc | 417
Hey Juliana, always enjoyed your posts. I hope that your garden is doing well. I understand about concentrating on other things in life. For me, I never thought I’d live this long. Had a fairly turbulent life. Now, I’m older and have 5 acres that needs constant attention. Used to have help, but now it’s becoming a struggle. I just want to leave this place to my son and grandchildren. The state and county I live in are as crooked as a dogleg and while all the bureuacrats live high on the hog, the rest of us have to make do the best we can. Basically predators. Cheers, lady. May the good Lord smile on you.
Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 22 2023 16:54 utc | 418
The reason I questioned the story about Perimeter being turned on is that whatever its post Soviet status is and its moment to moment status is, this is something you keep mum about. If it exists you let that alone be known and no more, never a word about it afterwords. If you are serious and Putin and the rest of the RF govt. seems pretty serious. Talking about it after Artemovsk didn’t seem Putin’s style.
Anyway, if Perimeter is real I would hope they keep it parked on standby most of the time, despite the risk this is one place you don’t want to find a bug, computers are all about bugs. Less it’s on better off we all are. And, then there’s the documentary: The Man Who Saved the World.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 21 2023 19:57 utc | 121
President Putin’s speeches are always published on the Kremlin website. Google translate does a satisfactory job of converting the original Russian into your language of choice.
I am not here to satisfy your current denial condition.
As I said earlier, his statement mystified me…. Until I read Helmer’s post, that is….
FYI PERIMETER is real… and you’d best be frightened out of your collective mind….
BECAUSE….
Putin himself stated that if Russia is annhilated… It will ensure that all of those who participate in such will die first…
Activation of PERIMETER is for the purpose of utterly destroying all NATO, particularly their populations should NATO use the exercises as cover for an attack on THE CIS…
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 22 2023 17:02 utc | 419
@ Yeah, Right | May 22 2023 12:18 utc | 421
At least F-16s eject up instead of down like the F-104 (Lockheed Starfighter).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEQbHT_WtKk
Posted by: John Kennard | May 22 2023 17:10 utc | 420
The thing is, even if peace was declared tomorrow, there would be an absolute need for border security
Posted by: anon2020 | May 22 2023 16:18 utc | 421
Yes. That was part of nato’s plan to send billions in weapons, lots of them small or handheld stuff. Terrorism will continue for many years, regardless of what happens with Ukr.
This general staff probably has meetings in the style of “- Should we monitor the borders? Put a guy on a tower, something from that medieval artillery duels book you like? – Nooo… that’s work. If they come we’ll say it’s a meat grinder by design and send Wagner or Chechens to fix it but don’t give them any ammo, let them know who’s the boss here”
Posted by: rk | May 22 2023 17:24 utc | 421
IMHO an excellent time for NATO to initiate aggression against Russia would fall one day following the official end of the “Air Defender 23” exercise. Not only would there be an enhanced possibility that Russia’s IRS services will have been by then lulled into a false sense of normalcy, but also the astrology of the time – set specifically for 06:45 AM CET at Ramstein. Germany – seems propitious for a first strike: while Mercury at 26 Gemini approaches square to Neptune at 27 PIsces (optimizing subterfuge and misdirection), Mars at 20 Leo approaches square to Uranus at 21 Taurus with the Moon exactly in trine to the latter planet, goading the belligerent NATO crew into a crazed all-out attack. Leo rising with Pluto on the Descendant adds a final touch.
BTW one engages in this kind of exercise not as a predictive exercise but in order to diminish the likelihood of its taking place.
Posted by: Gardenplot | May 22 2023 17:39 utc | 422
anon2020 | May 22 2023 16:18 utc | 421
*** The thing is, even if peace was declared tomorrow, there would be an absolute need for border security of at least the sort just described. There is no way any of the clowns who came across the border and started shooting should be able to escape back to Ukraine.***
If Russia wins the present military war, the biggest threat will be – as it was long before the war — from the “liberal” fifth-columnists in Russia itself.
These agencies of US-corporate imperialism must, along with the Oligarchs, be eradicated (not allowed to go abroad and continue to function for their ideological masters) or there can never be adequate security.
But would Putin, his administration, or similar successors really see to that — or are they basically too Atlanticist / capitalist themselves?
Posted by: Cynic | May 22 2023 17:56 utc | 423
@ too scents, §344:
Dincha know?
Israel will have the Ukraine and the Palestinians Donbass.
The Ukrainians will have Israel and the Donbass Russians will have Sinai.
Posted by: John Marks | May 22 2023 21:02 utc | 424