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May 21, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-122
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
https://johnhelmer.net/bravado-before-capitulation-will-russian-defeat-of-us-patriot-missile-be-followed-by-ukrainian-f-16-attack-during-the-nato-air-defender-23/ Posted by: FVK | May 21 2023 12:54 utc | 1 In the United Nations last week Posted by: Dave Oneil | May 21 2023 13:02 utc | 2 The copium among nazis on Twitter about Artëmovsk is insane. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 21 2023 13:17 utc | 3 In Zero Hedge today there was an article titled “Ukraine must lose to save the world” by Martin Armstrong that accurately describes my own feeling on the subject. Posted by: JustAMaverick | May 21 2023 13:20 utc | 4
Posted by: Down South | May 21 2023 13:31 utc | 5 JustAMaverick Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 21 2023 13:32 utc | 6
Posted by: Down South | May 21 2023 13:33 utc | 7 Tom Q (6) Posted by: JustAMaverick | May 21 2023 13:41 utc | 8
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17889
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17893
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17895
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17896
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17897 Posted by: Down South | May 21 2023 13:45 utc | 9
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/64469 Posted by: Down South | May 21 2023 13:47 utc | 10 Perhaps the scariest thing about the western world and Ukraine in particular is that, in fact, money and greed aren’t the priority. If they were, a form of peace through negotiation would prevail. Posted by: Eighthman | May 21 2023 13:50 utc | 11 Germany is much less capable than Ukraine in warfare. Poland will only do what benefits Poland, Not NATO. Posted by: Elmagnostic | May 21 2023 13:53 utc | 12 Is Russia developing hypersonic Novichok which cas hit Russian dissidents, in Germany, without the use of underpants or door handles? Posted by: Merkin Scot | May 21 2023 13:55 utc | 13 @1 Posted by: paddy | May 21 2023 14:04 utc | 14 Been a lurker for a while and commented only once, perhaps twice. Not sure if this is the place for it but I commented somewhere so I might as well translate it here because I have seen a similar comment before. It connects Geopolitics of UKUS vs Germany, USSR and Russia but also Yugoslavia: Posted by: Lazar | May 21 2023 14:04 utc | 15 RIA News. Posted by: la bouteille | May 21 2023 14:05 utc | 16 JAM: Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 21 2023 14:08 utc | 17 Continuation of previous one (Forgot to translate final bit): Change of consciousness among Germans, supression of any kind of national pride and intentional imbecilization of their elites to do stuff for their own damage and for outside interests is another thing that makes Germany more similar to smaller puppet states than to great powers. Posted by: Lazar | May 21 2023 14:11 utc | 18 la bouteille | May 21 2023 14:05 utc | 16 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 21 2023 14:12 utc | 19 @Posted by: JustAMaverick | May 21 2023 13:20 utc | 4 Posted by: FVK | May 21 2023 14:14 utc | 20 @ JustAMaverick | May 21 2023 13:20 utc | 4 Posted by: Don Bacon | May 21 2023 14:26 utc | 21 I have been thinking as John Helmer, 250 Nato Airplanes i Europa. Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 21 2023 14:31 utc | 22 Lazar@15 Posted by: Cofcanuckistan | May 21 2023 14:32 utc | 23 https://johnhelmer.net/bravado-before-capitulation-will-russian-defeat-of-us-patriot-missile-be-followed-by-ukrainian-f-16-attack-during-the-nato-air-defender-23/ Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 21 2023 14:38 utc | 24 Tom_Q_Collins@17 Posted by: Cofcanuckistan | May 21 2023 14:48 utc | 25
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17900 Posted by: Down South | May 21 2023 14:53 utc | 26 Norway and the Nederlands has sold some of their F-16 to the American Company Draken. Experient Ex- military pilots fly them, and often train as an enemy of yhe USAF. Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 21 2023 14:55 utc | 27 Dr. George W Oprisko | May 21 2023 14:38 utc | 24 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 21 2023 14:56 utc | 28 #5 Rybar: “it can be concluded that one of the goals of the AFU will be to gain air supremacy this year.” Posted by: tom paine | May 21 2023 15:02 utc | 29 Down South @26 Posted by: Cofcanuckistan | May 21 2023 15:04 utc | 30 @ Paul from Norway | May 21 2023 14:31 utc | 22 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 15:10 utc | 32 emersonreturn | May 21 2023 5:33 utc | 340 asked for my views on the future of the SMO. I had already been working on a response to a similar request made by Pacifica Advocate | May 20 2023 18:02 utc Posted by: Sushi | May 21 2023 15:22 utc | 33 @ Dr. George W Oprisko | May 21 2023 14:38 utc | 24 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 15:23 utc | 34 Poland is a mystery. Yes it has been run over from all sides by neighbouring countries but what Poland must be most traumatized by is that Fredrick II had exactly the same challenges and yet he turned Prussia into a military superpower. Is that what Poles are trying to emulate? Posted by: Jonathan W | May 21 2023 15:23 utc | 35 whirlX@32 Posted by: Cofcanuckistan | May 21 2023 15:35 utc | 36 Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 21 2023 14:38 utc | 24
NATO still has a sense of self-preservation, however their masters in Washington believe themselves immortal. Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 21 2023 15:38 utc | 37 @ Jonathan W | May 21 2023 15:23 utc Posted by: malenkov | May 21 2023 15:40 utc | 38
Why dont you cut it short and tell the simple truth: Posted by: Greg Galloway | May 21 2023 15:40 utc | 39 Tom_Q_Collins- Posted by: Robert Hope | May 21 2023 15:43 utc | 40 [36] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 21 2023 15:47 utc | 41 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 21 2023 13:32 utc | 6 Posted by: Paco | May 21 2023 15:48 utc | 42 @Sushi | May 21 2023 15:22 utc | 34 Posted by: Norwegian | May 21 2023 15:49 utc | 43 @ Jonathan W | May 21 2023 15:23 utc Posted by: malenkov | May 21 2023 15:51 utc | 44 @ Sushi | May 21 2023 15:22 utc | 34 Posted by: james | May 21 2023 15:51 utc | 45 Oops, my comment at 15:51 utc was in response to Paul Greenwood @ 15:47 utc. Posted by: malenkov | May 21 2023 15:58 utc | 46 Zelensky says Bakhmut is not occupied, so who ya gonna believe, a mercenary or a Zionist fascist? Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | May 21 2023 15:59 utc | 47 @ Arch Bungle | May 21 2023 15:38 utc | 38 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 16:01 utc | 48 Who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline? Posted by: Apollyon | May 21 2023 16:18 utc | 52 Mark2: I *was* being facetious, of course. There’s Vietnam too, and a certain country in Eastern Europe that’s been in the news lately…what’s it called again?… Posted by: malenkov | May 21 2023 16:20 utc | 53 [45] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 21 2023 16:20 utc | 54 Posté par : Fnord73 | 21 mai 2023 16:00 UTC | 49 Posted by: la bouteille | May 21 2023 16:24 utc | 55 Let‘s polish my point 1762 and death of Elizabeth of Russia saved Friedrich and Prussia from Russian occupation Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 21 2023 16:27 utc | 56 We are getting it all wrong. WRONG! Ukraine is winning in Bakmuth. Says Ukrinform.net: Posted by: Marvin | May 21 2023 16:29 utc | 57 As Joseph Conrad (the great Pole) described copium in The Heart of Darkness: Posted by: Jonathan W | May 21 2023 16:31 utc | 58 @ Paul Greenwood | May 21 2023 16:27 utc Posted by: malenkov | May 21 2023 16:41 utc | 59 @59 dont know if “elizabeth of russia” is a reference to one of the english elizabeths but please do not confuse the queens involved. These were Elizabeth of Austria and Catherine (the great) of Russia. Posted by: Orgel | May 21 2023 16:42 utc | 60 Zewensky: Admits Bakhmut captured by Wagner, but says Bakhmut is still under control in his mind and heart. Posted by: unimperator | May 21 2023 16:43 utc | 61 @Jonathan W 61 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 21 2023 16:43 utc | 62 @unimperator 64 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 21 2023 16:46 utc | 64 @ la bouteille | May 21 2023 16:24 utc | 58 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 16:47 utc | 65 @64 And the BBC will defiantly post the Zelensky version for as long as it takes. Posted by: dh | May 21 2023 16:49 utc | 66 @ dh | May 21 2023 16:49 utc | 69 Posted by: malenkov | May 21 2023 16:53 utc | 67 Bakhmut liberated but Prigozhin still going at it, answering to Zelensky Prigozhin avers that there is not a single alive Ukrainian soldier left in Bakhmut since they stopped taking prisoners after a video was published of tortured wagnerites, one Ukrainian soldier dressed with female attire trying to escape was liquidated. Corpses galore all over town though. Posted by: Paco | May 21 2023 17:04 utc | 69 BBC will defiantly post the Zelensky version for as long as it takes. Posted by: too scents | May 21 2023 17:08 utc | 70 ⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation Posted by: rumod report | May 21 2023 17:09 utc | 71 A Spanish blogger estimates that the total Ukrainian casualties in the Battle of Bakhmut are 100,000 dead and wounded.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 21 2023 17:10 utc | 72 Two m777s destroyed yesterday. Any tally of how many destroyed vs how many sent according to RFMOD? Posted by: UWDude | May 21 2023 17:12 utc | 73 Sushi | May 21 2023 15:22 utc | 34 Posted by: rk | May 21 2023 17:17 utc | 74 As long as it takes? How long can the de-industrialized West sustain a cold war? Posted by: dh | May 21 2023 17:22 utc | 75 Who decides it’s gone on long enough? Posted by: too scents | May 21 2023 17:30 utc | 76 @ Tom_Q_Collins | May 21 2023 13:32 utc | 6 Posted by: John Kennard | May 21 2023 17:33 utc | 77 Posted by: Lazar | May 21 2023 14:04 utc | 15 Posted by: Exile | May 21 2023 17:34 utc | 78 sushi@34 Posted by: emersonreturn | May 21 2023 17:50 utc | 79 With Zelensky’s plane currently flying very close to RF airspace between RF and Alaska, perhaps the biggest boon for all would be an attempt by RF Aerospace forces to snatch the bastard right there. Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 17:54 utc | 80 @Orgel #63:
How hard can it be to search for an unfamiliar (to you) historical figure before attempting to “correct” another commenter? All you had to do was google “Elizabeth of Russia” and get this as the first result: Elizabeth of Russia. It was indeed the death of Elizabeth and the accession of Peter III to the throne that saved Frederick II. Posted by: S | May 21 2023 17:55 utc | 81 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 15:10 utc | 32 Posted by: Boo | May 21 2023 17:59 utc | 82
I seem to remember in the decade or so after 9-11 when the US was going full tilt after “Muslim Extremist terrorists”, reading a report and accompanying data that in at least one particular year toddlers (yes toddlers !!) had killed and injured more people with firearms than the so called terrorists. Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 21 2023 18:00 utc | 83 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 17:54 utc | 83 Posted by: Boo | May 21 2023 18:01 utc | 84 While waiting for Valerij Z to be found, Posted by: Erik | May 21 2023 18:05 utc | 85 @ Boo | May 21 2023 18:01 utc | 87 Posted by: whirlX | May 21 2023 18:10 utc | 86 Interesting talk by Arestovich the other day. One gets the impression he is positioning himself or being positioned to assume a more sane and reasonable role at the Kiev side of the table when the time comes for talks than the other potentials in the junta side; that he is perhaps someone whom Moscow could be willing to deal with (notwithstanding his earlier Z mouthpiece role). Lately since he fell out of favour in Kiev he has been keeping his hands rather clean. Posted by: petra | May 21 2023 18:10 utc | 87 Re Serbia/Yugoslavia Posted by: JB | May 21 2023 18:11 utc | 88 Posted by: whirlX, various posts. Posted by: Rep2 | May 21 2023 18:32 utc | 89 Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 21 2023 14:38 utc | 24 Posted by: snake | May 21 2023 18:41 utc | 90 Prigozhin answered Zelensky about the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bakhmut: there are a lot of their corpses here, one tried to escape in a woman’s dress. Posted by: la bouteille | May 21 2023 18:41 utc | 91 @ JB | May 21 2023 18:11 utc | 91 Posted by: John Kennard | May 21 2023 18:41 utc | 92 Re: as-long-as-it-takes Posted by: Exile | May 21 2023 18:44 utc | 93 > Posted by: JustAMaverick | May 21 2023 13:20 utc | 4 Posted by: Pudding | May 21 2023 18:52 utc | 94 Dr. George W Oprisko @ 24
Pretty big deal. Any link to this speech? Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 21 2023 18:54 utc | 95 To anyone who has the transcript of Putin’s speech congratulating Wagner on taking Bakhmut, or the video, can you link where it says Putin activated the “Perimeter” system? I’m not doubting, but my Google-fu is failing me at the moment. Posted by: David | May 21 2023 18:56 utc | 96 Posted by: Rep2 | May 21 2023 18:32 utc | 92 Posted by: Boo | May 21 2023 19:00 utc | 97 petra @ 90
What Arestovich is up to or coming from confuses me even more than what Elon Musk is up to or coming from. Maybe that’s part of their five dimensional mind fuck. They think they are building a big, beautiful, complex artifice, the thing is you can knock it over with a feather – just ignore it. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 21 2023 19:01 utc | 98 David no. 98 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 21 2023 19:02 utc | 99 Sushi | May 21 2023 15:22 utc | 34 Posted by: anon2020 | May 21 2023 19:08 utc | 100 |
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