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May 18, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-119
Comments
With Russia it’s anyones guess, but they do have to be carefull with Nuclear power and they might have worked out a deal where they all leave each others power plants alone.
Posted by: OohCanada | May 19 2023 7:04 utc | 342
There was really no such deal — Ukraine tried to strike at the Kursk NPP repeatedly, and long before Russia started the missile strikes. Then they tried again after that.
And then there is the Zaporozhye NPP, which was shelled daily for months, mostly before the missile strikes.
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 19 2023 7:41 utc | 301
The whole episode is very scary in its implications.
There was absolutely no surprise in Patriots being completely inadequate when faced with Kinzhals. And no, it wasn’t that the Kinzhals overwhelmed it — a single one took it out. Also, it didn’t even need to be a Kinzhal, they could have taken it out with Geraniums as long as they managed to overwhelm whatever SHORAD systems were protecting the Patriot. No need for hypersonics really.
But they sent one to send a message.
And the Patriot presumably would have shot down some Iskanders, Kalibrs and X-101s if it had not been taken out, so it had to go. It’s just part of the overall SEAD/DEAD campaign, but with a particular symbolic importance.
The significant aspect of the story is that it appears that genuinely a lot of people, including in NATO, are surprised that the Patriots were destroyed. Why would they be surprised though? It was entirely expected — everyone knew Patriots are powerless against hypersonics years ago. It was simply demonstrated in practice now, but it is not news at all. But if there really are people in positions that matter for whom this is real news, then we are in very serious trouble, because it means the disconnect from reality is very profound and those clowns will lead us to an all-out war thinking they can win. Having no idea what they are up against…
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 19 2023 6:58 utc | 340
Russia didn’t send a single Kinzhal and destroyed the Patriot with it. They fully overwhelmed it with a variety of attack vectors and then hit it, which, as you said,could have been done with something else than a Kinzhal so this doesn’t prove Kinzhal is invicible or a Patriot killer IMHO.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 19 2023 7:53 utc | 302
Kamikaze drones Gerans entered Zhytomyr, Rivne, Khmelnytsky oblasts flying through the Kyiv oblast today early morning, which tells something about still working foreign donated AA systems.
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 7:54 utc | 303
Short review of The Ukrainian Civil War (for your NPR listening friends)
1) A long standing Civil War brought about by the 2014 violent Nuland sponsored coup/putsch overthrowing a legitimately elected government.
2) As a result of the violent putsch ~10 million Ukrainians did not want to be ruled by Kiev. This is recognized in international law UNSC 2202. ( signed on by Washington BTW)
3) NATO (Washington) was arming Kiev‘s side of the civil war factions since at least 2014. Thousands of NATO troops (advisors/trainers) were stationed on Ukraines territory.
4) The Civil War started heating up in late 2021/2022. The ~10 million Ukrainians who didn’t want to be ruled by Kiev invited Moscow‘s Military to protect them.
5) Summary – on one hand NATO was invited by Kiev‘s side and on the other hand Moscow was invited as Peacekeepers by the internationally recognized LPR/DPR side.
That’s it. Keep it really simple and do not accept the War Party‘s narrative in any shape or form.
If you want to start the conversation – simply ask „How did thousands of NATO‘s military become stationed in The Ukraine ?
Answer: they were invited by Kiev
Question: How did thousands of Moscow‘s military become stationed in The Ukraine ?
Answer: They were invited by the (internationally recognized ) Republics of Luchansk and Donesk.
Keep it really REALLY simple
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2023 7:55 utc | 304
@Melaleuca | May 19 2023 5:08 utc | 311
>…”Zelensky will fly to Saudi Arabia for the Arab League summit, and then to Japan for the G7 summit – Bloomberg, citing sources”
https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status/1659419926791176193
Poor Hiroshima. So much suffering. And now to endure Zelensky.
I am skeptical about the rumor that he met a Chinese envoy in Kiev. I see no real evidence that he has returned to Ukraine.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 19 2023 8:01 utc | 305
I am skeptical about the rumor that he met a Chinese envoy in Kiev. I see no real evidence that he has returned to Ukraine.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 19 2023 8:01 utc | 354
He must be kept in an American base somewhere. There are rumours that he is flying to Japan in a US warplane, first to Saudi and then to Japan.
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 8:07 utc | 306
It is quite strange that a president of a country at war is out of the country for so long, even with all the new technology around to run it remotely. Maybe the guy is kept hostage by the Americans… 🙂
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 8:10 utc | 307
Zelenski has reappeared
He is expected in Japan ( G7 ), supposedly today ?
However, NO medium mentions where he had disappeared until today !!
Rumors say that he is in Italy (one of his possessions)??
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:10 utc | 308
several posters asked “where to move the meat-grinder after Artyomovsk/Bakhmut?” and suggested relocating it to Odessa.
2 words: “Odessa Catacombs”
The (above-ground) city of Odessa was built from stone quaried from tunnels underneath the city. The Catacombs of Odessa are one of the most extensive tunnel systems in the world.
Look them up on Yuutuub. There are several “tour” videos posted to give you an idea.
Posted by: retroflecks | May 19 2023 8:13 utc | 309
Prigozhin
Allegedly complained about withdrawal from Bachmut?
So media in Germany.
1% of the city so yesterday the message is still held by Ukraine ????
Ask :
Was it a “retreat” due to Ukraine’s superiority… or does Prigozhin want (must) keep the meat grinder running?
Stradegisch it would be clever to do this, morally for Russians at home rather not!
But what role does MORALITY play in war…
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:17 utc | 310
(elensky) Maybe the guy is kept hostage by the Americans… 🙂
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 8:10 utc | 356
—————-
Remember the rumors that he has dirt on the Biden family. It would make sense that they wouldn’t want him stray too far…
Posted by: retroflecks | May 19 2023 8:21 utc | 311
Posted by: CIA Lurker | May 19 2023 0:30 utc | 196
Great, don’t care. Nobody is trying to invade Russia, but we will help smaller nations to defend themselves against larger nations who would try to take what is not theirs.
Thank you so much for the belly laugh. Though, you owe me a keyboard and half a cup of coffee now.
Seriously, that guy comes across like someone signing up to a cat forum with a moniker like ‘cat hater’, just to shoot off a round of posts about how he enjoys shooting cats, having the whole forum explode with rage. And behind the keyboard, some pimply 15-ys-old is laughing his butt off.
Posted by: Katharina | May 19 2023 8:27 utc | 312
@shadowbanned | May 19 2023 6:58 utc | 340
The significant aspect of the story is that it appears that genuinely a lot of people, including in NATO, are surprised that the Patriots were destroyed. Why would they be surprised though? It was entirely expected — everyone knew Patriots are powerless against hypersonics years ago. It was simply demonstrated in practice now, but it is not news at all. But if there really are people in positions that matter for whom this is real news, then we are in very serious trouble, because it means the disconnect from reality is very profound and those clowns will lead us to an all-out war thinking they can win. Having no idea what they are up against…
I agree with this analysis. The most scary part of the present time is the disconnect from reality that we see all around us, from the next door neighbour, in companies and all they way up to governments. I guess this is the mass formation psychosis that has been deliberately manufactured in order to enable totalitarian rule and endless wars.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 19 2023 8:27 utc | 313
several posters asked “where to move the meat-grinder after Artyomovsk/Bakhmut?” and suggested relocating it to Odessa.
2 words: “Odessa Catacombs”
The (above-ground) city of Odessa was built from stone quaried from tunnels underneath the city. The Catacombs of Odessa are one of the most extensive tunnel systems in the world.
Look them up on Yuutuub. There are several “tour” videos posted to give you an idea.
Posted by: retroflecks | May 19 2023 8:13 utc | 358
.
.
Is correct
Now the BUT and I was there live!
At normal levels, these catacombs are about 85% underwater!
The rest is so wet that the water runs off the walls.
In the years that the city was administered under Ukraine, nothing was done to preserve the tunnels, in Soviet times a lot of money and work was invested there…. and about 85% were accessible. Also wet but accessible.
In years of Ukri rule the infrastructure has been neglected as one who has never been there cannot imagine…
Will there be a second Azov ???
Possible…
One thing is certain: Putin will not take over Odessa…he has definitely lost the “war”!
A reason why there must be no truce, A reason why the west dreams of FREEZE!
Get access to the Black Sea at any cost!
Militarily Economically the navel for the Ukraine….without…there is NO more Ukraine!
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:29 utc | 314
Fuck translator
Putin MUST take over Odessa it should say
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:31 utc | 315
Zelenski gone?
Biden connection and ensure his silence?
.
Well, maybe HE had to go to training and fill up medication (substance) again…
possibly for hypnosis ( =
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:34 utc | 316
Re: Zelensky
Ukrainian TG channels have repeatedly mentioned that Zelensky staked his personal reputation on holding Bhakmut. Thousands of soldiers died there simply so that Zelensky’s rating wouldn’t collapse before elections which were scheduled to be held this year.
Holding on to Bhakmut ate up enough men and materiel that the “Great Offensive” has to be postponed until more men can be found and materiel sent to make up for the losses in Bhakmut. Not even Syrsky’s counteroffensive could roll back the RF.
Now that Bhakmut has fallen so too has Zelensky. He won’t return until he cast cast iron guarantees that he won’t be “removed”!
Curiously Zaluzhny has disappeared at the same time Zelensky’s foreign adventure began. The US has prepositioned him to take over from Zelensky. Much cloak and dagger happening in Kiev right now.
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 8:36 utc | 317
MI-6 transmitted intelligence to the Office of the President and the General Staff that the Russian army, after the capture of Bakhmut, is preparing a strike on Krasnoy in order to level the front, and PMC Wagner will take an active part in this operation.
The purpose of the counterattack is to stop the advance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the flanks and inflict moral damage on the Ukrainian army.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17859
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 8:37 utc | 318
Col from oz @ 337
Has a must see video link regarding the radioactive plume spreading over Europe.
How do the west react ?
Switch of the monitors and stop publishing the findings!
My conclusion is, the threat to Europe and the west is NATO not Russia.
If you past his comment and link please take a look at the vid, for the good of your health, and start taking Iodine tablets.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 8:38 utc | 319
Our source in the OP said that Britain supports a sharp escalation of the conflict in Ukraine, for this purpose we received long-range missiles and can use them without territorial restrictions.
Now London is insisting on the need for new counterattacks and raising the stakes in the war, the main thing is to prevent the transition of the war into a positional one, the format of which is already being discussed in the United States.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17861
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 8:38 utc | 320
After Washington sent two batteries of the MIM-104 Patriot anti-aircraft missile system to Ukraine in April, given the real capabilities of Russian missiles, it recommended placing these systems away from the front lines. The “patriots” were hiding in Kiev, but even there they could not hide from defeat. The American complex managed to launch 32 missiles and at the same time repel the attack, none of which reached the target. At the same time, a billion-dollar battery was destroyed by hypersonic daggers.
The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reports, and the West laughs – the American Patriot air defense systems frankly made mistakes in Ukraine. In Washington, they are trying to “put a good face on a bad game” and, given the defeat of the Patriot battery positions, say that “everything can be fixed there”. True, without specifying which “repair teams” will take care of the complex’s broken facilities and command post.
IMPORTANT
The fact, as they say, is “at first sight” – all 32 missiles launched from the Patriot complex went nowhere, some crashed on the roofs of high-rise buildings.
.
The main goal – repelling a Russian missile attack – was not achieved. “32 Patriot missiles aimed at the Kinzhal ballistic missiles failed. The total cost of their introduction was $96 million,” writes Military Watch Magazine. The “cost of defeat” was slightly underestimated – a MIM-104 missile costs from $4 million, and the cost of the Patriot battery (along with a missile pack) is estimated at over $1 billion. It may be that Ukraine was given a discount, such as a sale – a seasonal sale. But the money still flew “in the wind” – the attack of the “daggers” could not be prevented.
AND
These systems, which are inferior even to the still old modifications of the Soviet variants of the S-300 system !! Should be placed farther from the line of contact and not used to cover troops near the front line.
On the express orders of the USA !!!
They took no chances with the Patriots, but were also spotted in Kiev and hit with rocket attacks.
Conclusion
Yes, they have been used in various conflicts in the Middle East, Iraq, Syria and Yemen. They shot something down there, planes, missiles, but in small numbers. This is figuratively showing off, PR with unconfirmed odds. And this myth has now been shattered once again. I note that at first the American “patriots” could not cope with other Russian missiles, for which they used all their ammunition and fired in all directions like blind kittens. And then the “dagger” flew in, knocking out all their positions. Everything, the invincibility of the “patriots” and their reliability go under.
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:43 utc | 321
Someone asks …
Where to put the next meat grinder ?
Washington, US. Would be good.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 8:45 utc | 322
@retroflecks | May 19 2023 8:13 utc | 358
The (above-ground) city of Odessa was built from stone quaried from tunnels underneath the city. The Catacombs of Odessa are one of the most extensive tunnel systems in the world.
Yes. There is some speculation that the origins are megalithic, that means really old. In any case they are huge.
The Odessa Catacombs: Lost in Eternal Darkness
Posted by: Norwegian | May 19 2023 8:49 utc | 323
Latest news :
Zelenskyy will not go to the G7 summit in Japan, but will take part in it online, reports the press service of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine.
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:54 utc | 324
Ukrainian blogger tells why the real amount of AFU casualties (~300k) is being hidden.
Turns out Ukraine has set 15 million hryvnia compensation to families who’s member dies in combat. Therefore 300k would result in a bill of 4.5 trillion hryvnia (~$120 billion). So they are simply registered as missing.
https://twitter.com/SandraHelena39/status/1659346749041827840
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 8:57 utc | 325
I noticed that cialurker, dude was psychologically projecting all of Americas crimes and blame onto Russia.
Very easy trick that takes but a momment. Leaving the aponanate with having to give a long long reply to unravel the lie and point to the truth. Meanwhile their on to the next one again and again. You won’t keep up. Your reply ignored.
Best defence….
Point out the trick immediately and go on the attack not the defence.
It’s easyer.
Classic psychopathic behaviour from US.
Also look up symptoms of pscopaths.
Know your enemy.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 8:57 utc | 326
To add to my above.
Cia lurker got a right pounding through sheer Weight of numbers and conviction. It’s good to have right on your side.
A pleasure to read.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 9:04 utc | 327
10:53 Uhr
EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has called for a further expansion of military support for Ukraine at the G7 summit in Japan. “We must now give Ukraine the tools it needs to defend itself successfully and to regain full sovereignty and territorial integrity,” she said at the top meeting of leading democratic industrialized nations. Ukraine must be given the military and financial support it needs for as long as necessary, she said. Peace negotiations that put the aggressor and the victim on the same level must be rejected, she said.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
https://www.tagesschau.de
Posted by: BonfireNight | May 19 2023 9:06 utc | 328
I think the story of Patriot system in Ukraine is pretty much over. Nato held an emergency meeting on the precarious status of air defense in their staging bases in Poland and there was another news that US has denied Ukraine to use Patriot system until they complete an “investigation”. The only logical conclusion of such an investigation is that the Patriot is more useful smelted into a lump of steel.
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 9:09 utc | 329
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 8:45 utc | 371
Washington, US. Would be good.
And in a month or so, it’ll look like Detroit.
Posted by: Katharina | May 19 2023 9:10 utc | 330
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 8:45 utc | 371
Washington, US. Would be good.
And in a month or so, it’ll look like Detroit.
Posted by: Katharina | May 19 2023 9:12 utc | 331
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 19 2023 8:43 utc | 370
Washington don’t want Patriots near front lines because that’s where the risk of a system falling in the hands of the Russians is the highest.
Any air defense system can be overwhelmed and then targeted,this has no bearing on how efficient the system is. The problem here, IMO, is that the Patriot components were not nearly as spread out as they should have been and probably took damage on more than the launching units because of it.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 19 2023 9:12 utc | 332
CIA Lurker Posted: “Without Russian funding and meddling the the Donbass, the astro-turfed separatist movement wouldn’t have even been a thing. Ukraine looks toward Europe and the West and not towards Russia, for obvious reasons.”
Now then. I have a screenshot of the front page of the kiev Post at the height of the maidan riots.
Its headline says: UKRAINIANS DIVIDED OVER EU OR CIS
Polling in ukraine by the KP revealed a 50-50 split in attitudes of ukrainians.
Yanakovych meanwhile was planning a referendum on the issue but was ousted before it got off the ground. After all, lets not leave this to ordinary folk to decide shall we?
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 19 2023 9:33 utc | 334
James @323
Ed, it doesn’t matter what you think the state is or is not. At its core it is a set of laws that govern a nation, nothing more. nothing less.
It doesn’t matter one jot what you think the state is or not, but, fyi, it does matter what I think the state is.
Posted by: Lengai | May 19 2023 9:37 utc | 335
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 19 2023 9:33 utc | 383
Ukrainian government with fascist characteristics, funded by US state department began a war against ~10 million Ukrainians in 2014. Therefore it has been a civil war, with Nato covertly supporting the (illegitimate) Ukrainian government and Russia supporting the targeted section of the Ukrainian population covertly. The only thing that changed in 2022 was the covert support of both sides turning into overt support.
Will leave it at that.
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 9:39 utc | 336
New sanctions would ‘starve Russian war machine’ – G7
cries BBC
Just can’t remember which number is this new ‘sanctions’…?
Or, is it that the west is starving…
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 9:44 utc | 337
Being Russian and speaking Russian within Donbas, Odessa, Kiev anywhere is the Kievan-Rus for hundreds of years is “Astro-turfed”??!?!? Contemptible ignorant trolling.
The troll ought to look at the true “Astro-turfed” campaigns that their Axis of Lies has set up all around the world to prolong their mad and failing neoliberal racket.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | May 19 2023 9:46 utc | 338
>>> Nation-state definition: A nation – a group of people that share a common ethnicity, religion, language, etc. which binds them together. A state – a government that controls and governs territory on which a people live. Put those two terms together and you have a nation-state. Do you understand that concept?
Posted by: James | May 19 2023 1:11 utc | 245 <<<
Sorry mate, whatever that source is, it is hopelessly out of date rubbish and contrary to commomsense and human history. It is a childish perspective on a MUCH MORE complex topic.
* Nation or country: arbitrary lines on a map (eg some river, latitude, longitude, sea coast, lake boundary) simply delineating a country, its governance, its common rulership. Such lines are renowned for moving according to wars, or even peaceful political divisions or amalgamations etc.
* State: Another, usually arbitrary, region, which may be WITHIN a country/nation (ie, Texas) or apart from it (eg Alaska). Some colonies of the empires were like "states" of that nation. And like the Roman Provences -- run by The Big State (Rome) but autonomous in other ways according to their local culture and governance. There can also be federations of states, (eg Russia today). States DO NOT equal nations or countries.
* Nation-State: A region (state) which has become a recognised nation in its own right. There are separated states which are not nations themselves (ie Alaska), and nations which CONTAIN multiple states within them (ie America). Those states existed BEFORE America the whole country.
* Ethnicity: A racial or religious or ethnic or cultural or language grouping of people which exists IRRESPECTIVE of what state or national borders they might currently be within. (Eg Quebecois, Kurds, Palestinians, Welsh, etc etc). An ethnicity may be split all over the globe, like Jews, or lumped together in one geographical state, like The State of Israel. It existed as a designated region for Jews and a sort of British state (Mandated Palistine) well before it became a Nation-State.
All secessionist frictions and movements today and throughout all history have been brought about through artificial grouping and separation boundaries being imposed upon incompatible ethnicities. It is nationality which is false and arbitrary, and ethnicity which rules people's hearts and causes them to revolt against their rulers.
Ukraine, for example, has several different ethnicities within its national boundaries, and hence what lies at the root of the SMO is basically a civil war to sort out the wrongful 1992 "nationalising" of the Donbassians with Galatians and Kievans. The Gallations might even opt to join up with the Poles. Who knows!
So yes, ethnicity DOES pre-date nationality. (I'm not condoning CIA-LURKER'S other stupidities, just pointing out your own, and many others' misconceptions).
As we've seen over and over, Patriotism > Nationalism > Ultra Nationalism > Fascism > Nazism. These are all mindsets stemming from geographical borders and a self identity with those borders. (I am this, you are that). Ukraine is now a perfect case study of idiot, fervent national identification.
Beware: Dictionaries, encyclopaedias, Wikipedia, Google, AI BOT definitions, are sometimes full of shit unless properly delineated within reality. 🙂
Posted by: The Dolphin | May 19 2023 9:51 utc | 339
Posted by: CIA Lurker | May 19 2023 0:30 utc | 196
Great, don’t care. Nobody is trying to invade Russia, but we will help smaller nations to defend themselves against larger nations who would try to take what is not theirs.
Great to see that this spirit of generosity in the we people who, I now learn, really do care about the smaller nations.
Posted by: Lengai | May 19 2023 9:56 utc | 340
I read a funny line in Fox News today,
Most notably, China and Russia will not attend because they are not members of the group, but their actions over the past year will drive most of the discussion at the summit.
The so-called G-7 discusses ‘stuff’ of countries that are much more powerful than them taken together… 🙂
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 9:56 utc | 341
Our source in the OP said that Zelensky was not happy with Syrsky at headquarters yesterday, who again began to refer to the climatic weapons of the Russian army, justifying the belated counteroffensive near Bakhmut.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine were late for a whole month with this operation and now it does not affect the holding of the city in any way, and the hopes for success with the environment of Bakhmut are minimal.
The commander of the ground forces complains about the weather, which will be rainy next week, and this will not allow the Armed Forces to advance further on the flanks.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17862
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 10:00 utc | 342
🇺🇦🇸🇦Zelensky said that he arrived in Saudi Arabia at the Arab League summit, where his speech is scheduled.
“I will meet with Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman al-Saud and hold other bilateral talks. Our priorities are the return of all political prisoners of Crimea and the temporarily occupied territories, the return of all prisoners and illegally deported, the presentation of our formula for peace, to the implementation of which it is necessary to involve as many states as possible, ensuring energy security next winter,” Zelensky said.
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/63973
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 10:05 utc | 343
“The G7 coordination platform, which we jointly created earlier this year, helped close Ukraine’s budget deficit for 2023. But we need to agree together on stable financial support for Ukraine after 2023,” – Ursula VDL
Isn’t it nice to pay personal taxes in your own country to hold up a foreign country?!
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 10:08 utc | 344
@Lev Davidovich | May 19 2023 9:46 utc | 387
Being Russian and speaking Russian within Donbas, Odessa, Kiev anywhere is the Kievan-Rus for hundreds of years is “Astro-turfed”??!?!? Contemptible ignorant trolling.
It is not ignorant, it is a deliberate provocation designed to generate as many angry responses as possible.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 19 2023 10:22 utc | 345
Mushroom | May 19 2023 9:12 utc | 381
so…..
patriot so called ‘air and missile defense system’ is like a us navy aircraft carrier, so valuable it needs four times it value to defend it!
and cannot go where it can do any good.
you must have stock in lockheed.
Posted by: paddy | May 19 2023 10:24 utc | 346
NEWS UPDATE BAKHMUT MORNING MAY 19
Wagner forces has begun offensive operations in the northern area of small houses west of Chajkovskogo Street (A). Fighting continue in the Tetris area (C) where resistance is fierce from UkrAF. The southern area of small houses and Ilyus Stov industrial complex west of Chajkovskogo Street (C) are still firmly in ukrainian hands.
(Via Mikael Valtersson)
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/30972
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 19 2023 10:29 utc | 347
The Scarlet PimpNSell of Kiev….
“They seek him here, they seek him there Those …intrepid barflies, …they seek him everywhere. Is he in heaven or is he in hell? That demned elusive Pimpernel…
Well, it seems he’s surfaced in Jeddah, attending the Arab League meeting, along well Assad…then a quick stiletto step to G7 in Japan..
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/ukraine-updates-zelenskyy-attends-arab-league-summit/ar-AA1bnWXF
>Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy arrived in Jeddah on Friday to participate in an Arab League summit.
He traveled on a French government plane and is also expected to attend the G7 leaders’ summit in Hiroshima, Japan, this weekend.
Zelenskyy said he was there to “to enhance bilateral relations and Ukraine’s ties with the Arab world.”
> Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, told state television that “important” decisions would be made at the G7 and it was “therefore the presence of our president that is absolutely essential in order to defend our interests.”
On Thursday, Ukrainian government official Ihor Dzhokova told the Japanese news agency Kyodo that Zelenskyy would “carefully monitor the situation on the battlefield and then make a final decision” on whether or not he would attend in person.
Zelenskyy was also scheduled to meet Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi during the summit, according to CNN-News 18.
ClownZ twitter: (with pic in thread)
https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1659498127634702338
>…”Beginning my first-ever visit to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to enhance bilateral relations and Ukraine’s ties with the Arab world.
Political prisoners in Crimea and temporarily occupied territories, the return of our people, Peace Formula, energy cooperation.
KSA plays a significant role and we are ready to take our cooperation to a new level.
§ Search terms “Zelensky + Jeddah” / “Zelensky + Japan”
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 19 2023 10:41 utc | 348
Posted by: paddy | May 19 2023 10:24 utc | 395
It depends on how many of these systems are have deployed. With enough of them they protect each other. If you have 10 of them to defend a city, you’d need some 300 hundred simultaneous attack vectors or more to perhaps overwhelm them.
Anyway, the point I was making is that the fact a Patriot system has been hit through an overwhelming attack tells us nothing about that system’s capability to otherwise hit a Kinzhal or not.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 19 2023 10:42 utc | 349
Hitting the patriot system with a Kinzhal is to prove a point… 🙂
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 10:47 utc | 350
ostro | May 19 2023 9:44 utc | 386
>… The floggings (sanctions) will continue until {EU} morale improves …
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 19 2023 10:49 utc | 351
Posted by: OC Anonymous | May 19 2023 5:40 utc | 317
Re: Decision making on first use of atomic weapons
There was extensive target planning as a decision was made to spare specific cities from LeMay’s conventional attacks so as to ensure “pristine” atomic weapons targets. The intent of this decision was to better permit calculation of the destructive capacity of the atomic weapon vs a conventional rain of death.
Posted by: Sushi | May 19 2023 10:54 utc | 352
Regarding the DU hit in Khmelnitsky, Patrushev, head of the Security council, said that the radioactive cloud is moving towards western Europe. Maybe it is “relatively” serious after all?
Meanwhile the western establishment is very quiet.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1659511126332145664
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 10:55 utc | 353
53% of Ukrainian veterans believe that the Ukrainian state is not fulfilling its obligations to them. This is evidenced by the data of the study “Needs of Veterans”.
At the same time, more than 53% of veterans need help to improve their health, 34.7% of respondents need to purchase housing, 24.9% need to improve their living conditions, 24.4% need education, 20.4% need employment, and receive psychological support. support – 20%.
50.2% of veterans who do not currently serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine need material support.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17863
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 10:57 utc | 354
Khinzal speed and aerodynamics.
Khinzal when hypersonic is surrounded by a plasma envelope.
How will that affect aerodynamic resistance?
Will it reduce resistance in a similar fashion to Russia’s super cavitating torpedo and allow hypersonic flight to continue until impact?
According to aerodynamic equations the bumble bee should not be able to fly, but it not only flies, it manages to make a little honey on the way.
The aerodynamics of a hypersonic object surrounded by plasma are a little bit of a mystery, an unknown which challenges assumptions.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | May 19 2023 10:58 utc | 355
Medvedev responded to Ursula von der Leyen’s statement:
“It’s hard to disagree with a gynecologist who pretends to be the head of the EU. The aunt said that negotiations between Russia and Ukraine on equal terms should be rejected.
Of course it is.
How can there be equal negotiations with the Nazi state, which is in the process of half-life under external control? You can only talk to the owners. Or rather, only with Washington. There are simply no other interlocutors. And only about the conditions of the post-war world order. Although it is too early to talk about it.
Therefore, no negotiations are needed at all now.”
https://t.me/WarDonbass/112533
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 11:00 utc | 356
Zelensky‘s inability (?) to return to Kiev is a fascinating topic. Dozens upon dozens of possibilities. The most likely is Zelensky is afraid of being Diem‘d.
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2023 11:01 utc | 357
The most likely is Zelensky is afraid of being Diem‘d.
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2023 11:01 utc | 406
—
He prefers to be bone-sawed like Khashoggi?
Posted by: too scents | May 19 2023 11:07 utc | 358
Anyway, the point I was making is that the fact a Patriot system has been hit through an overwhelming attack tells us everything we need to know about the $1,000,000,000 Patriot versus a couple of dozen $20,000 drones and a $500,000 missile
That’s the entire point.
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2023 11:08 utc | 359
“All of a sudden” the Ukrainians will start to think of Zelensky as a Jew…and the one who destroyed Ukraine…that is, if there would be any Ukraine left after the SMO…
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 11:15 utc | 360
Exile | May 19 2023 11:08 utc | 408
The much vaunted US defense industries have been revealed as the boondoggle that they are. Everything supposedly “protected” by Patriots is defenseless.
As a matter of interest, does that include the various US naval Carrier Groups?
Posted by: ZimZum | May 19 2023 11:26 utc | 361
So those patriots turned out to be useless. Who can really be surprised? Sam Johnson reckoned years ago that patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel. Mind you an English teacher once told me that in Jonhson’s time patriotism was a synonym for soldiering? Don’t know if that was true. I’d be more interested in what the Russians do now. The ball seems to be on their court.
Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | May 19 2023 11:28 utc | 362
Zelensky would say, that is, if he ever returns, that he can’t start the ‘counteroffensive’ as there’s not enough ‘everything’ from the ‘sponsors’…
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 11:31 utc | 363
Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President deliberately goes on the track of a protracted war in order to postpone the elections in Ukraine.
The cancellation of this year’s parliamentary elections is an expected step. Zelensky’s team will not be able to secure victory even in military conditions and even in the presence of a powerful security apparatus, without a successful counteroffensive and reaching the borders of Crimea.
Andriy Yermak needs an absolutely controlled Verkhovna Rada to amend the legislation on privatization and nationalization of the property of oligarchs.
BlackRock enters Ukraine under certain conditions that are beneficial only to an international investment company that wants to take Ukrainian land and enterprises for a penny.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17864
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 11:31 utc | 364
Erdogan: Turkey is not ready for Sweden to join NATO right now.
Ooops! There goes, another failed color revolution, eat it, CIA goat fuckers!
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 19 2023 11:32 utc | 365
It looks like The Piano Player is not going back to Ukraine any time soon. My local council meeting is soon, perhaps he will appear there with his hand out. It’s getting ridiculous.
Back to couch surfing at Ursula’s?
Posted by: ZimZum | May 19 2023 11:32 utc | 366
Regarding the DU hit in Khmelnitsky, Patrushev, head of the Security council, said that the radioactive cloud is moving towards western Europe. Maybe it is “relatively” serious after all?
Meanwhile the western establishment is very quiet.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1659511126332145664
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 10:55 utc | 402
Fortunately, DU is completely harmless and has no negative effects due to radiation or toxicity. Said the UK government a few weeks ago, secondedby other EU governments and NATO. Will be interesting to see them tapdancing around the truth should some of the dust indeed travel to Europe…
Posted by: Marvin | May 19 2023 11:38 utc | 367
The big story is Poland switching off it Radioactive monitors just when a plume of Radioctive dust reaches the borders.
That will have now spread way over Poland already.
Apparently they switched it back on after 2 or 3 days when peak contamination levels reduced becouse of spread.
The expert says it will reduce fertility, immediately couse lung damage and will couses cancer and other illness.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 11:51 utc | 368
If i recall correctly ….
Vladimir Putin warned that he viewed the west delivering DU munitions to Ukraine as a new nuclear red line that had been crossed !
‘ And Russia would take appropriate action in kind. (I’m para phrasing.)
What Vladimir says in his important anoucements he does.
So we are now in a nuclear war.
Fist step by the west.
Secound step by Russia… neatly sending the west’s depleted uranium back where it came from via wind direction.
We’re at nuclear war… WTFU
From what I can see is that it’s the west’s next nuclear move.
The west are insane. Mentally ill.
Are we not concerned ?
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 12:05 utc | 369
Funniest thing I heard all week from some western media regarding Patriot:
“As we know the Patriot System cannot defend from threats on all 360 degrees”
LoL
Posted by: Comandante | May 19 2023 12:06 utc | 370
‘The Scarlet PimpNSell of Kiev’ MELALEUCA 397 … I luv your name for Mr Z of Kiev. Made my day. Ardderchog. BRILIANT
Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | May 19 2023 12:07 utc | 371
Allthough there is no point for them hanging on to Bakhmut (Artyomowsk), the UAF are still bringing untrained “soldiers” to the “front”, where they fall victim to the “meat grinder”, often before having reached their assigned positions. On May 12th (or one of these days), Ukraine lost between 1200 and 1700 men, which is an alltime high, in an attempted counteroffensive. Source: RT of this morning.
The proceding looks like something Zelenskyy would order, but, as you see, it gets enforced vigorously even while he’s not at home. Makes me (and RT) think of an act of deliberate destruction of the lives of Ukrainian servicemen.
So what is the rationale behind it? I don’t remember the barfly’s name who has come up, days ago, with the solution: Forced conscription is an accepted means of eliminating the russophile part of Ukraine’s population. Rather than just killing them, which would go down as genocide, conscripting them is a way of doing the same with approval of the West. By encouraging Ukrainians to “fight”, we are making ourselves complicit in genocide.
Posted by: grunzt | May 19 2023 12:13 utc | 372
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2023 7:55 utc | 353
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 19 2023 9:33 utc | 383
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 9:39 utc | 385
It is critical to remember that in the last democratic election held in 404 candidate Z ran on a “Peace” platform and was elected with majority support from the entire Ukrainian electorate. The citizens of Ukraine voted for peace.
This is the great tragedy of this conflict. The Ukrainian people had no wish to die for the glory of Z, Biden, AZOV thugs, the MIC, the banksters, UK Trusswits, global agrobiz, Blackrock, or anyone else.
I am sure CIA Lurker of the “We Lie, Cheat and Steal” Agency can explain in detail how this perversion of the democratic will of the Ukrainian people was achieved.
Posted by: Sushi | May 19 2023 12:16 utc | 373
Patriot has reportedly been repaired and is reportedly back online to defend Kiev.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 19 2023 12:17 utc | 374
@ HERMIUS, §275:
The Falklands aren´t and never have been Argentine territory.
They have been British since their discovery in 1690.
Their indigenous inhabitants – the “natives” – are British.
Posted by: John Marks | May 19 2023 12:20 utc | 375
Patriot has reportedly been repaired and is reportedly back online to defend Kiev.
Posted by: Mushroom | May 19 2023 12:17 utc | 424
Well, until the next Kinzhal…
Posted by: ostro | May 19 2023 12:22 utc | 376
>Posted by: Brannagyn | May 19 2023 5:21 utc | 315
Thanks for this excellent analysis – if you have a site where you write, feel free to share. I’d be curious to read more.
Posted by: Pudding | May 19 2023 12:26 utc | 377
@Mushroom | May 19 2023 12:17 utc | 424
Patriot has reportedly been repaired and is reportedly back online to defend Kiev.
Good to know they had duct tape on hand.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 19 2023 12:28 utc | 378
From Wagner Group Telegram Channel…
https://t.me/wagner_group_pmc/31431
a radioactive cloud that emerged after the destruction of depleted uranium munitions supplied to Ukraine is moving towards Western Europe. an increase in radiation was recorded in Poland.
Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Patrushev
Beware the hand that feeds you…..
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 19 2023 12:31 utc | 379
Mushroom @424
The people of Kiev must be feeling safer now. Unless they set it up in a residential neighborhood again, in which case it makes people less safe because it can’t defend against shit but its missiles tend to fall on peoples’ houses and it is a magnet for Kinzhals.
Posted by: aquileia | May 19 2023 12:33 utc | 380
Where is “Brighton Beach”?
Answer….
Brighton Beach is on Coney Island, which is located on the southwest coast of Brooklyn, NY.
It and the adjacent area are home to a very large ex-pat Russian population.
I know it personally, having gone there to a russian banya, and to russian supermarkets for russian specialties.
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 19 2023 12:34 utc | 381
@Mushroom | May 19 2023 12:17 utc | 424
Patriot has reportedly been repaired and is reportedly back online to defend Kiev.
Im Falle eines Falles, klebt Uhu wirklich alles.
German joke, old ad for Uhu (Glues anything, anytime)
Posted by: Katharina | May 19 2023 12:35 utc | 382
Comandante @420
Who needs 360 degrees, missiles only come from the East. Unless the make a turn, but that is illegal under the rules-based order.
Posted by: aquileia | May 19 2023 12:36 utc | 383
Posted by: Exile | May 19 2023 11:08 utc | 408
Anyway, the point I was making is that the fact a Patriot system has been hit through an overwhelming attack tells us everything we need to know about the $1,000,000,000 Patriot versus a couple of dozen $20,000 drones and a $500,000 missile
That’s the entire point.
—
The entire point is the fact the $1,000,000,000 cost is paid for by US money printing. US fiat is supported by nothing more than global faith and credit in the US financial system.
What is taking place in 404 is a tragedy. What is occurring globally is the end of USD fiat hegemony. This financial issue is the crux of the conflict.
Posted by: Sushi | May 19 2023 12:37 utc | 384
Patriot has reportedly been repaired and is reportedly back online to defend Kiev
A rumor that ought to be tested with a nice air attack on Kiev tonight.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 19 2023 12:38 utc | 385
NATO is waging a war of aggression against Ukraine since 2014 (similar to the 50s by arming and training nazi terrorists but also with NATO forces) “to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere”(Pentagon, 1992). To defend Ukraine against the illegal NATO aggression and genocide the Ukrainian president appealed for the armed forces of the Russian Federation(similar to Syria and Kazakhstan):
“I appeal to the President of Russia Vladimir V. Putin to use the armed forces of the Russian Federation to re-establish the rule of law, peace, order, stability and to protect the people of Ukraine.”
reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-un/russia-yanukovich-asked-putin-to-use-force-to-save-ukraine-idUSBREA2224720140304
Posted by: p3t3r | May 19 2023 12:41 utc | 386
Are we not concerned ?
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 12:05 utc | 419
We are … and very much so …
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 19 2023 12:42 utc | 387
🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇷🇺 The Russian army poses a threat to the Armed Forces of Ukraine against the background of Kiev’s counteroffensive – Bloomberg.
As the agency writes , The Russian military has changed its methods of warfare and poses a significant threat against the background of the promised counteroffensive from Ukraine.
The analytical report of the British Royal United Institute for Defense Studies (RUSI) states that the Russian army poses a serious threat to the Armed Forces.
Widespread perceptions of the weakness of the Russian army in some cases are either outdated or erroneous, the 30-page report says
The report is based on interviews with military veterans of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in particular, it notes that Russia, thanks to the establishment of an air defense system along the front line with a length of 1200 km, will be able to effectively intercept the HARM missiles used by Kiev with radar guidance.
Experts pointed out that Russian electronic warfare systems are constantly being improved, which forces the AFU to spend more than 10 000 UAVs per month.
According to RUSI, the Russian Armed Forces are now also able to decrypt Ukrainian encrypted Motorola communication systems in real time.
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/64041
Posted by: Down South | May 19 2023 12:52 utc | 388
A new expansion of sanctions led by the British and Americans that this G7 group will (have to) join is on it’s way. For months, the intervals between new “help packages” for the Proxy have become considerably shorter, as have calls for urgent support. These are key indicators of an extremely desperate military and political situation in this camp.
Apparently, the trade of unaffiliated companies from countries such as China, Turkey or South Africa is to be integrated into the package, as is the export of diamonds from Russia.
Zelensky will be a guest at the Arab League and the G7 meeting (“around the world in 14 days”). Ahead of the meeting, the G7 announced:
“A just peace is not possible without the complete and unconditional withdrawal of Russian troops and military equipment. This must be included in every call for peace,” it says.
This outwardly formulated condition (of the Zelensky plan) is quite new and a message to peace initiatives from the Arab League, from Africa, China and South America. Previously, it was always said, “we will support until Ukraine is ready to negotiate”. The Global South will probably take notice of the G7’s progressive isolation from the needs of the world.
Likewise, the G7 must discuss its support for their 2024 proxy. The pressure needs to be relieved of some “last hurray” that may not even be feasible after large-scale destruction of Ukrainian munitions.
Posted by: Konrad | May 19 2023 12:53 utc | 389
Are we not concerned ?
Mark2 | May 19 2023 12:05 utc | 419
No. Why?
All Putin’s red lines were crossed, he should talk much less about red lines or his approval rate will go down fast. When Medvedev talks about some red line, in less than 2 weeks it happens. So it was with Crimea bridge explosion. He basically tells natoids where to hit next for maximum effect against Putin, in case they are too dumb to know. He should simply be forced to live the rest of his life in one of the “fun” regions like Belgorod, Donetsk, Zap. or Crimea. Can’t wait to read his social media posts from the front line.
Posted by: rk | May 19 2023 12:53 utc | 390
his approval rate will go down fast.
Posted by: rk | May 19 2023 12:53 utc | 440
—
An assertion at odds with the data ==> https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/
Posted by: too scents | May 19 2023 12:59 utc | 391
Posted by: grunzt | May 19 2023 12:13 utc | 422
Support for your thesis is found in the numerous videos of 404 “snatch squads” forcibly acting to press gang a citizen.
What is most interesting is that while the 3 or 4 man uniformed snatch squad is fighting to force an unwilling enlistee into the waiting vehicle, multiple other military age males pass through the frame. There is no attempt to press gang these other males, or stop them to obtain their names and credentials. They are totally ignored.
My impression is that the snatch squads are targeting specific individuals who will be sent to the front lines after 2 hours of training.
As you point out, the end result is a form of Western endorsed “ethnic cleansing.” I am sure CIA Lurker can provide further details on how this operation was conceived and implemented. I suspect religious belief plays a part in getting your name on the target list. We will likely have to wait for the Hollywood movie to learn the truth about “Zwindler’s List”
Posted by: Sushi | May 19 2023 12:59 utc | 392
RE: Artemosvk
It would be a nice touch if Prigozhin announces the fall of Bakhmut on the same day as the G7 Summit in Japan. A big “eff you!” to the Z-stooge.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 19 2023 12:59 utc | 393
“…an English teacher once told me that in Jonhson’s time patriotism was a synonym for soldiering?…”
Guy L’Estrange@411
He was wrong. ‘Patriotism’ was the name that the supporters of Wilkes and Liberty, not to mention the movement for autonomy in America, adopted.
Posted by: bevin | May 19 2023 13:00 utc | 394
I do not usually write as it is more enlightening to just read the usually excellent contributions, but this is something I cannot let pass:
“@ HERMIUS, §275:
The Falklands aren´t and never have been Argentine territory.
They have been British since their discovery in 1690.
Their indigenous inhabitants – the “natives” – are British.
Posted by: John Marks | May 19 2023 12:20 utc | 425″
We can debate the sovereignty of Islas Malvinas ad nauseam, however you cannot claim these islands were “discovered” in 1690 by England (surely you mean 1592 by John Davis) when they were mapped in 1520 by Magallanes expedition, and there are records that an Spanish vessel remained in the Falklands for several months in 1540.
Also, there are no indigenous or native Falklanders per se, as these islans were unoccupied when discovered.
Posted by: Galahad | May 19 2023 13:04 utc | 395
too scents | May 19 2023 12:59 utc | 441
you have big problems with lengua inglesa.
“he should talk much less about red lines or his approval rate will go down”
Posted by: rk | May 19 2023 13:06 utc | 396
@ rk | May 19 2023 13:06 utc | 446
—
How far down? How big a drop would make Putin unpopular? He has a huge margin of popularity and you argue “down”?
Posted by: too scents | May 19 2023 13:19 utc | 397
So Zelensky was in Arab league meeting, now …
“Zelenskiy will fly on a US military plane to Japan after an expected stop in Saudi Arabia to attend the Arab League summit, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing confidential information.
A spokesman for the US National Security Council declined to comment.
Japanese officials had previously said Zelenskiy would join the others virtually, even while they added an extra session on Ukraine on Sunday to accommodate the Ukrainian leader’s schedule. A spokesperson for Japan’s Foreign Ministry declined to comment further on Friday.”
https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1659546878755700737
Posted by: unimperator | May 19 2023 13:19 utc | 398
Posted by: je | May 19 2023 4:05 utc | 305
The CIA Lurker, ignore their kind. Well said. Thank you.
—————————————————————-
I consider all the nuclear bombs on Japan OT, but you guys went to town.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | May 19 2023 13:20 utc | 399
rk @ 446
On the contrary.
Vladimiri Putin didn’t fall for the west’s deliberate provocation as he knew full well the west media would spin the story… Putin bad nato good.
You know that full well. we here no that. Now’s not the time for your petty little thread disruption tricks. You blame Russia and Putin for the west’s actions.
Clear case of projection.
Very lazy minded.
You’v been at that trick since the beginning of the SMO.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2023 13:21 utc | 400