“Mecouris begins with Lira case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0yLlPh68Rg
Posted by: AG | May 18 2023 20:34 utc | 104″
love Alex but he’s being an idiot here. We are talking about a fascist regime with Neo Nazi tendencies. How is anyone surprised by the arrest of gonzo? the guy literally lived inside Naziland
its like Anne Frank talking crap about Adolf and being surprised at an arrest

Posted by: Comandante | May 18 2023 20:43 utc | 104

JackG | May 18 2023 20:34 utc | 105–
The only team that knows the true results is the Russian team, and they’re not supplying all the info they might. Some of the patriot’s missiles did the infamous loop and impacted the ground soon after launch. This is from Simplicius’s report:
“To me it appears that: 32 Patriot missiles were fired by the patriot battery, of these 2 were catastrophic misfires that fell down almost immediately after launch, probably landing inside Kyiv, several others appears to be guidance failures that went off in random directions, and 1 failed to fire at all. It appears like the full load of 2 launch units with PAC-3 missiles…”
The patriot failed to defend itself and was destroyed. Of course, the way the Kinzhal operates gave the patriot no chance as it comes down vertically, not at an interceptable angle. The inability to shoot straight up overhead dooms the system.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2023 20:53 utc | 106

Regarding the nuking of Japan, the reality is that we know exactly why they were used, and know, often in great detail, the thought processes behind its development and deployment. It had nothing to do with the Soviets. It was an extension of the strategic bombing program that had already proven able to reduce most Japanese cities to ash with mass firebombings. The nukes were just less logistically demanding way to achieve the same result.
In the end that strategic bombing program as a whole was unneeded and ineffectual in its ultimate goals of forcing a civilian rebellion, but that only became apparent in retrospect. The concept proved a dud, but it had a logic to it. It wasn’t arrived at through vindictive malevolence. The same strategy was also deployed against the white Germans, so the racism charge is hard to stomach.
Moralizing takes on history, that people or factions are simply ‘evil’, gets you nowhere in developing real understanding. That holds for the present as much as the past, as well.
And contrary to now popular revisionism, both cities were absolutely major, legitimate military targets, particularly Hiroshima, which was a major logistical hub as well as housing the command staff of the entire defense network of Western Honshu. It was a place that was going to get hit sooner or later in preparation for the US invasion of the home islands which, also contrary to revisionism, was very much on the table as a serious consideration, though whether it would have happened is a historical unknown. For the record, a significant faction of Japanese military thinking desperately wanted just such an invasion attempt to happen. They wanted to bleed it dry in order to force the US to let Japan conditionally surrender.

Posted by: OC Anonymous | May 18 2023 20:55 utc | 108

@ OC Anonymous | May 18 2023 20:55 utc | 115
Nuking japan was
A: for the fun of it and seeing the effects of an A-Bomb of each type.
Aa: a judicious offering of jingoistic racism.
B. showing of that new “hammer” to the Soviets _before_ the end of the
grace period negotiated with Stalin for the “pivot to Asia” of the Red Army after
the conflict end in Europe.
-> Japan is ours
-> don’t try to contest it.
-> we are now mortal enemies.

Posted by: MAKK | May 18 2023 21:08 utc | 110

West of England Andy | May 18 2023 20:45 utc | 112–
I rather doubt your Flagship commander would have even that much time to pray. More from Simplicius:

So the point is that, apropos the argument of whether the Patriot can intercept the Kinzhal or even the Iskander, the fact is, these missiles are likely completely stealth to the Patriot radar for the majority of their ballistic arc. Once they hit the arc and go into ‘glide mode’ and begin slowing down, they slowly come out of stealth, but the problem is, at that point they are already likely over the target and only 15-30 seconds at most from impact, maybe less, and still going a very fast Mach 4-5 at the beginning of the slow down.
If we take the earlier example, that the Kinzhal is fired from across the border at around 100-150km from Kiev, let’s assume that the top of the ballistic arc happens at roughly the midway point. That means roughly the remaining 50km or so could be spent on the downward trajectory of that arc, coming out of stealth. But even at Mach 4-5, 50km will be covered in about 28 seconds. It may begin blipping into radar screens at some point during this but it will leave very little time to react for all but the most finely honed/trained crews.

IMO, 30 seconds is too short a time for humans to arrive at a firing solution. Auto quantum computing might be fast enough, but the missiles don’t get launched immediately, and even ten seconds could be too long. The only countermeasures that come to mind are from science fiction–force fields and particle emitting lasers. My mind is stuck on the idea that the plasma sheath must be detectable somehow, but then Kinzhal has decoys to deploy.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2023 21:12 utc | 112

Just found out: Dennis “peace train” kucinich is RFK Jr ‘s campaign manager…a real Peace Mongerer!

Posted by: Peter b | May 18 2023 21:16 utc | 114

bottle | May 18 2023 21:06 utc | 116–
Thanks for your reply. I’m still of the opinion that human responses are too slow in this situation if we’re talking about the need to get everything done including anti-missile launch with ten seconds to spare.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2023 21:18 utc | 116

@ Jack Gordon | May 18 2023 20:42 utc | 110
re: The sources you warn against are not 100% correct always — that’s something only God can manage
I’ll rephrase that for you:
. . . that’s something only God and Richard Steven Hack can manage . .re: #109

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 18 2023 21:22 utc | 118

In the top half of Larry Johnson’s newest blog post is first a photo then three videos of different Ukie cemeteries where it seems clear the war is helping the florist industry. I know the ultimate cause for all those flowers goes back decades to an era before I was born that must be reigned-in and halted once-and-for-all. Many nations of the world see that must be done and are willing to help the process. But as was explained by info I posted on the current non-Ukie open thread, the ultimate instigator–the Outlaw US Empire–has absolutely no intention of stopping the carnage for that would mean ending its attempt at global hegemony, which it’s going to lose anyway. As with Hitler, the Donors and Neoliberal Parasites don’t care how many other die as they seem to think they can elude judgment and justice.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2023 21:45 utc | 120

Richard Steven Hack @ 109

The US delusion about a “frozen conflict” continues to reflect the insanity at the top of the US administration.

I know a lot about history, a bit about war, but it seems a constant that the delusional side is always the one that loses.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 18 2023 21:48 utc | 122

A short summary of RF’s recent space adventures follows below, busting Western propaganda that “Russia has only 2 electro-optical and old spy satellites” and similar uninformed arrogance – from the country that depends on SpaceX.
On March 12, 2023, Russia’s Proton-M rocket launched the Olymp-K-2 satellite, also known as Luch-5X, from Site 200/39 at Baikonur Cosmodrome. The Olymp-K satellites are Russian geostationary satellites built for the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Russian intelligence agency FSB.
In 2022, Russia launched 14 military satellites, including three navigation satellites, two GLONASS-K1 satellites, two electronic Lotos-S1 intelligence satellites, three inspector satellites (Pentagon’s Space Force freaks out about those).
Cosmos-2558, launched in August, and both Cosmos-2561 and Cosmos-2562 launched in October, four reconnaissance satellites, one Meridian-M communication satellite, and one Tundra early-warning satellite.
In 2023, Russia plans to deploy several civil satellites for reconnaissance purposes, including one Resurs-P satellite and two radar-imaging satellites, Obzor-R and Kondor-FKA.
On October 21, 2022, Russia launched two more classified military satellites, designated 14F164 and 14F172, from Plesetsk.
Added to it 2 years ago a wide-area terrain mapping coupled with terrestrial laser scanning, a cluster of satellites
with automated image understanding and fast processing of remotely sensed data, such as multispectral/hyperspectral images, as well as LIDAR data, which provide height information of terrain. 24/7/365.
Out of all those “washingmachines in space” RF derives targeting info, movement track, heat map, of every square centimeter of the battleraum and much wider. So basically pre-built elements of a model are fed in a cluster of supercomputers rendering almost a real time imaging and a display over the whole spectrum. AI modelling is being aware of any tiny change on a focued area since it was last scanned, comes also with very fast overlay very-hi-res map image retrieval.
ISR combat models also merge data sources from EW scans to UAV and airborne acquired data.
So…
Nope. Definetly not goathoarders with Kalash in sandals, with a great hope that someone high up in a Recombined NATO understands that.
It’s gonna be fun fun fun, under the sun, sun,sun.
Red Dwarf, Season 1 Intro

Posted by: whirlX | May 18 2023 21:57 utc | 124

And contrary to now popular revisionism, both cities were absolutely major, legitimate military targets, particularly Hiroshima, which was a major logistical hub as well as housing the command staff of the entire defense network of Western Honshu.
Posted by: OC Anonymous | May 18 2023 20:55 utc | 115
It’s not possible to debate someone who doesn’t even understand that Nagasaki was the intended target!
In any case, that’s off-topic and I’m not allowed.

Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 22:00 utc | 126

Should have been “Nagasaki wasn’t the intended target.”

Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 22:02 utc | 128

Russian Mole In NATO Defense Industry
Defendant Allegedly Conspired to Obtain Sensitive Technologies Used in Quantum Computing and Nuclear Testing to Further Russia’s Defense Research and Development Efforts
Bogonikolos helmed the Aratos Group, a defense and technology conglomerate with ties to NATO in his home country and the Netherlands, the criminal complaint said.
An Aratos Group subsidiary was a NATO Innovation Challenge finalist in 2021 for a proposal involving the use of artificial intelligence and blockchain technology for satellites and spacecraft, the Justice Department said.

Posted by: Oui | May 18 2023 22:07 utc | 130

ThusspakeZarathustra #17:52 utc | 24

“We’ve discovered inconsistencies in how we value the equipment that we’ve given” to Ukraine, one of the senior defence officials told Reuters.”
WTF?

The senior defence official finally gets it right.
-The USA sees the value of the Patriot AD system as a means of selling junk to coerced countries around the world and pocketing billions for their MIC buddies.
-The Ukraine SS government see them as part of a bundle of black market trade goods.
-Russia clears space on the ground so the next batch can be delivered.
Oh. and the Patriots have really powerful radars that can be seen see for a hundred or more kilometers 😉

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 18 2023 22:12 utc | 132

“The Telegraph
The failure of Russia’s Wunderwaffe is game over for Putin”
At this point I have no ideea what to believe anymore. One side says 5 patriots destroyed, one all were intercepted. I know wars have own propaganda but all this is at another level! discrepancy to the moon!!!

Posted by: Innuendo | May 18 2023 22:19 utc | 134

@CIA Lurker | May 18 2023 20:48 utc | 113
Real pro-Ukrainians know that the last 30+ years of US meddling has nearly destroyed the country with its efforts to use it as a cudgel against Russia. Promoting Russiphobia, promoting fake Ukrainian history, trying to destroy the Orthodox church, using far right nationalists to achieve political goals through violence and intimidation, sabotaging trade with Russia, instigating a nationalist coup in 2014, instigating a civil war, etc, etc. Read up on your agency history.

Posted by: the pessimist | May 18 2023 22:22 utc | 136

a report from the field in Ukraine
Kyiv Independent —
When dying ‘stops being scary’: Worn out Ukrainian soldiers in Donbas hold off Russian assaults

Oleksandr, 37, a tank driver, said everything flies at him as soon as Russian forces spot his vehicle going forward.
But no matter how intensely the Russians are attacking the tank, his task is to keep storming in their direction to cover infantry – moving forward in unison with one or a few more tanks.
“If not us, then the guys (infantry) will be killed,” he said, immediately turning around to hide his tears. He says most of his comrades with whom he served since 2014 have been killed, and he is convinced that his chances of making it through the war are low.
While each soldier has their own way of dealing with the challenges and coping with the trauma, there is one thing that unites them all – they said they are keen to keep fighting until victory. Andriy, a Zaporizhzhia-born infantryman from the 53rd Separate Mechanized Brigade, summed it up in his conversation with the Kyiv Independent in late March.
“We are Ukrainians,” he said late evening after returning from the Avdiivka front line. “We are a nation with a strong spirit – and f*ck, we won’t ever give up.” . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 18 2023 22:27 utc | 138

Sushi #18:53 utc | 47
Thank you, indeed it is so. Mind you that shopping list in your last paragraph of Russian grievances that should be reconciled is likely only the visible surface of the perpetual assaults/insults endured in silence.
Methinks Russia will swallow that westie tripe in exchange for compliance with their December 2021 peace proposal in full, immediately, and no future shenanigans. The destruction of NATO supremacy is paramount as the self immolation of the EU economy is underway and likely satisfactory for Russia’s near term needs.
Unravelling the Polish/Baltic ‘states’ python will be paramount as will be the Moldova/Romania situation.
Regards and stay well too, uncle T.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 18 2023 22:36 utc | 140

@ CIA Lurker | May 18 2023 22:39 utc | 149
I would love to take that bet.
Already lost it.
Transistria is not there intended to be separated from and surrounded by.
So as Kaliningrad.

Posted by: whirlX | May 18 2023 22:47 utc | 142

@ karlof1 | May 18 2023 22:50 utc | 152
I see we have a self-confessed Anti-Human present in the bar
Yes, but those are harmless. They know the truth but refuse to admit it, tasked with twisting it. Doing that while knowing it is wrong, is a punishment enough.

Posted by: whirlX | May 18 2023 22:58 utc | 144

Posted by: unimperator | May 18 2023 22:58 utc | 155
###############
I am very impressed with Russian engineering and manufacturing. Really makes the West look very incompetent at industrial warfare.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 18 2023 23:04 utc | 146

​Dr Christopher Busby’s take on the missile hit on the munition dump (with which I concur, having worked with him — and others — for almost 30 years on matters of uranium and depleted uranium weapons):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AWTt86Ja6Z6lgWb4o4xMTipSUOWcLA82/view

Posted by: Robert James Parsons | May 18 2023 23:06 utc | 148

“If Russia doesn’t like Russophobia, then they shouldn’t do things that would cause any. But a whole lot of Russia’s closest neighbors are afraid of Russia and angry at what Russia has done.”
Most of the world is angry at the USA and at the millions of deaths they have caused. They just couldnt show it due to the financial monopoly the US has on the planet.
That is changing very fast

Posted by: Comandante | May 18 2023 23:11 utc | 150

Not only the weapons, but the training of soldiers in western countries has to be paid for by Ukraine. 30000 euros per soldier complains a Ukranian blogger. Pilots? Much more. Just another part of the big racket. I feel sorry for the people of Ukraine. They are f’d if they win, f’d if they lose.

Posted by: Oh | May 18 2023 23:22 utc | 152

Regarding hitting and penetrating a super-hardened bunker, all one needs is a uranium / depleted uranium warhead. These exist in various sizes, up to 20 tons. The U.S. first tested them on bunkers in Baghdad in 1990. They are inexpensive to produce, for the depleted uranium is given away as nuclear waste.
The uranium / depleted uranium (chemically, they are identical) burns at +/- 6,000° C. upon impact. Hitting a super-hardened bunker usually involves a tandem warhead: one to penetrate and one to finish the incineration of the contents of the bunker. They will penetrate up to thirty meters of reinforced concrete in less than a second.
The entirety of the uranium is transformed into mostly microscopic particles that are radioactive for 22 billion years (the half-life of uranium is 4.5 billion years, roughly the reckoned age of the solar system). A 2.5-micron particle lodged in an alveol cavity in the lung will irradiate a sphere of between 250 and 350 cells permanently, unless it gets dislodged. In this case, the body usually moves it to the bones since chemically it is very similar to calcium. There, it can cause leukemia.
The particles, after the intense heat, are ceramic-like, virtually indestructible, and disc-shaped. This endows them with a huge surface area relative to their mass, just like a dead leaf, which makes it possible for them to float on the air — contrary to what the Pentagon claims: that, because of the density of uranium, the particles are very heavy and immediately fall to earth. They thus spread easily and far.
Dr Christopher Busby and others have done extensive research in the field, especially in Iraq, Kosovo and Afghanistan on this. Several researchers have been threatened or even badly roughed up at conferences where they had been invited to present the results of their work. Myself, I was threatened by the military attaché from the United States diplomatic mission in Geneva after speaking at a conference at the United Nations Geneva Office (the Palais des Nations).
The threat of placing tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus in response to the use of these weapons is symbolic. If the nukes are used, the resulting radiation will eventually subside, as was the case with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The uranium / depleted uranium particles constitute permanent contamination, for they get into the water and soil whence into everything that grows, and they are inhaled with the results described above.

Posted by: Robert James Parsons | May 18 2023 23:29 utc | 154

@chunga | 44
“When one thinks of Hiroshima often it comes to mind the atomic bomb the US dropped on Japanese civilians in that city, half way around the world, facing no existential threat. Three days later the US dropped another one on Nagasaki. After having 75 years to think about it most Americans still manage to find a way to justify it. There’s a message in there.”
I don’t have to think hard about the decision to bomb Japan. My father landed in Japan after the war on the assault ship that was scheduled to put him ashore in the invasion. The fleet was at sea when the war ended. His unit was to be one of the break in waves. The Japanese although out gunned in every way, resisted stubbornly. The casualty estimates for the Japan invasion were in the 500,000’s . We had just seen almost 50,000 casualties in Okinawa.
The US was fire bombing other Japanese cities leading up to the nuclear bombing. Some of those attacks killed more than died in Okinawa. I dont understand the hand wringing concerning how people die. Die by a bullet or bomb ok, but die by a nuclear weapon is not ?
Yes, I get it. A Nuclear war would be a very bad deal today so lets do all we can to avoid one. But we are not talking about that in 1945. There were 2 bombs in existence then and the US had both of them and nobody else had any. There was not going to be a general exchange.
Some will argue that the whole idea of unrestricted war on civilians in both pacific and Europe were a “war crime”. When I watch or read about the Hamburg, Dresdon or Tokyo fire bombing I get where that argument comes from. But it’s so easy for me to make that judgement. There are no end to horrors we can hold up, but whats the point. There was a war on an unprecedented scale going on. War is ugly. This war we have in Ukraine is just as ugly and more outrageous because it was so obviously unnecessary.

Posted by: Dan Farrand | May 18 2023 23:30 utc | 156

@ karlof1 | May 18 2023 21:18 utc | 123
Humans play no role in the identification and targeting of incoming missiles. Humans can set some parameters in advance and withhold fire if they act in time, but the rest is automated. The time from target lock to counter-firing is very short, maybe a second or two u less the system is waiting for range to close.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 18 2023 23:39 utc | 158

@ Up North, §132:
Nagasaki wasn´t the intended target.
Hiroshima was for the first A-bomb but the second was intended for Kokura.
It was cloudy over Kokura on the morning of August 9th, 1945 – hence “the luck of Kokura” – and the American pilot opted to divert to the secondary target, Nagasaki.

Posted by: John Marks | May 18 2023 23:41 utc | 160

karlof1 | May 18 2023 23:31 utc | 167
as an aside one version of the pac 3 is called cost reduction initiative (cri). idk what overlaps pac 3 mse…
the hope is pac 3 will compete with the aegis sm-6 for integration in upgrade aegis systems to defend the fleet!
maybe sm-6 is better tested than pac 3??

Posted by: paddy | May 18 2023 23:43 utc | 162

DPA synthesis of latest pro-Russian Telegram channels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIeM5Yxou7Y&t=1s
Essentially (cutting through all the arrows and speculation about the future) says the last third of The Citadel (The Domino) has fallen. Also, reached the road just to the north of the Children’s Hospital. Looks like the Children’s Hospital holds.
Also the southern sector near the Mig road junction still holds (like it has for months). So the title (last line of defense) is overdramatic.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 18 2023 23:50 utc | 164

@ CIA Lurker, §145:
I like your openness, Lurker.
But the anti-Russia thing?
The Russkies saved America from the British and French vultures during your civil war.
They (the Russians themselves) suffered as much as anyone under the Bolsheviks and Stalin (not a Russian).
They suffered even more during WW2. And then had to put up with the Cold War.
When The Wall came down in ´89, they just wanted what ordinary Americans wanted.
We spat in their faces ever since.
And Russia isn´t a frightening giant: it´s more like Canada – a Germany-sized west, from Petersburg to Moscow to Rostov and then a huge swathe of uninhabitable forest and icy tundra all the way to Vladivostok. That´s like Canada: a Germany-sized east between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal and then a huge swathe of forest and tundra to Vancouver.
So re-examine that Russophobia stuff – and perhaps take a peek at Alex Krainer´s “Grand Deception” (Red Pill Press, 2018).

Posted by: John Marks | May 18 2023 23:59 utc | 166

Next meatgrinder? On the way to Odessa.

Posted by: Bob In Portland, Ore | May 19 2023 0:06 utc | 168

The “truth will out” when countries demand a refund and begin canceling their contracts for new Patriot defense systems

Posted by: Willow | May 19 2023 0:17 utc | 170

1. Interesting Twitter complaint by the Ukrainians about ammunition supply:
https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1658730697064947712
He’s not obsessing about the Bakhmut flanks winning OR the Citadel losing. His point is more fundamental. They’ve been at this for over a year. They should have ammunition! A year is a lot of time to increase production base. Look at what the US did between the end of 1941 and the beginning of 1943 for example.
2. Unrelated to (1), report from Wagner (18May AM, local) that Bakhmut will not fall soon:
“Ukraine’s eastern city of Bakhmut is “unlikely” to fall to Russian forces in the coming days, Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the Wagner mercenary group, said early Friday.”
Unable to get non paywalled version, but was able to copy first sentence of the article: https://www.barrons.com/news/wagner-chief-says-bakhmut-unlikely-to-fall-soon-479f159b

Posted by: Anonymous | May 19 2023 0:21 utc | 172

My intellectual problem is how to detect and intercept given plasma effect. Clearly, the projectiles emit lots of heat and ought to be detected that way …
Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2023 22:43 utc | 150

Just a thought, but maybe the temperature is the key. I presume that the temperature is so unnaturally high nothing in the natural or man made world approaches it. If so, then to detect the heat signature is to identify the missile. Now you just have to detect it far enough out from its target to stand a chance.
I believe that sub detection is aided by a network of sonar sensors, whats the probability that a network of heat detectors could do the same in relation to hypersonics?

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 19 2023 0:25 utc | 174

@Up North
No, Nagasaki was an intended secondary target. It just wasn’t the primary target for that mission. The plane took off intending to hit Kokura but couldn’t because the city was obscured, possibly by the Japanese defensively using smoke generators. The plane, running out of fuel, headed for Okinawa and hit Nagasaki on the way there. Frederick Ashworth was weapons officer on the plane and made the final decision to drop.
I didn’t feel like typing out a giant wall of text going over every single little variable. Seems like a giant waste of time, especially since it’s clear most commentators here have already made up their minds on the subject. But then I’m going to go ahead and do it a bit here anyway.
The fact is we have lots of historical detail on the development and use of the first atomic bombs. They emphatically were not aimed at the Soviets. They were developed in the first place out of fear that the Axis, primarily Germany, might get there first (in retrospect Germany was far behind the Allies, and in some ways wasn’t even on the right track. There was probably little need to rush the nuclear program, but that wasn’t known for certain at the time). It was developed as an extension of the strategic bombing program, and was envisioned by the military as a better way to do vast destruction. That’s it. It was viewed as just a really big bomb. That it had unique properties beyond that wasn’t well appreciated, and wouldn’t be fully for at least a decade after the war (just ask the ghost of John Wayne).
As for their ultimate use, we have mountains of evidence that their deployment existed entirely within the context of the ongoing conventional bombing of Japanese cities and planning for a possible invasion. Those were the elements that were under consideration when the bombs were used. Contrary to Truman’s later attempts at self-serving revisionism where there was an agonizing decision on go or no-go, an interesting additional element is the degree to which no singular person seems to have ever made a final decision on use. Basically the bombs were simply deployed as soon as they were able to be deployed. Because it was pre-planned to a certain extent, as an element of the broader bombing program. ‘Oh, the new bomb type has finished testing back in the states. Time to see how it works in the field.’ The Kokura/Nagasaki bombing in particular seems to have really advanced through the bureaucracy on automatic. It was only after that second bombing that an explicit halt order was issued on further bombings. To a certain extent they were live fire tests, against cities that were already earmarked for eventual attack. The point was to see if a similar effect could be achieved with one plane and bomb what had already been achieved with hundred.
I don’t thing people appreciate how much the strategic bombing fetishists dominated in WW2. The nuclear weapons weren’t even the most expensive weapons project of the war. The B-29 high altitude bomber was; its R&D cost almost a third more than the Manhattan Project, hastily built secret cities and all. Other than just being easier logistically (one plane and bomb vs hundreds of planes and thousands of bombs), another reason for the developing of the nukes was the complete failure of the Norden bombsight, which was intended to be this super tool, developed for around 2/3 of the final cost of the entire nuclear bomb program, that would enable (relatively) pinpoint bombing accuracy. It was a complete failure that never worked well, and so strategic bombing necessitated giant flocks of planes, with flocks of escorts, crudely carpet bombing the general area of a target in the hopes of hitting something valuable. The nuke promised to make killing of key infrastructure much more reliable.
Some people can say ‘but just look at the timing, obviously it was about the USSR’, but that’s not actually remotely what the details of the historical record indicate. But, and I’m going to be a dick here, to know that would require sitting down and actually reading any of that historical record, or even just academic summaries of it.
Something I find interesting about the ‘it was a message to the Soviets’ narrative is that it is such an academically non-existent one. Because the evidence simply isn’t there, and in fact there’s a lot of evidence to the contrary. Even someone like Gar Alperovitz and his shitty, poorly researched book only makes the argument that the bombings weren’t needed (arguable, but far from a bullshit claim) and that this was known to the Americans at the time (100% bullshit).
My own view is that the nukes probably weren’t needed to force a surrender, but we can only say that with the gift of hindsight. There’s even an argument, somewhat flimsy, spearheaded by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, that in the event it wasn’t the nukes that prompted the surrender but the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. It’s possible that the Soviet invasion by itself might have lead to the same result, or that the mining of inter-island sealanes would have forced a surrender, which was the verdict of a post-war US bombing survey. But these are speculative counterfactuals. The fact is people making plans in the US at the time couldn’t know any of these things. They could only make decisions based on what they knew and thought at the time.

Posted by: OC Anonymous | May 19 2023 0:36 utc | 176

“Great, don’t care. Nobody is trying to invade Russia, but we will help smaller nations to defend themselves against larger nations who would try to take what is not theirs.”
Posted by: CIA Lurker | May 19 2023 0:30 utc | 196
Like Syria? Oh wait, the US is taking their oil. The Bio labs in Ukraine are well documented, no conspiracy needed.

Posted by: jr | May 19 2023 0:37 utc | 178

@ dasdasd | May 19 2023 0:12 utc | 185
You are ignoring the fact that the Donbass republics were be subjected to vicious ethnic cleansing by the Kiev regime. As such, under the doctrine of Responsibility to Protect, what was happening was Russia’s business.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 19 2023 0:40 utc | 180

Some videos for today.
Kiev regime’s shelling leaves several civilians wounded in DPR:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/Yasinovataya_1805:e
Russian fighters show Sputnik residential and office buildings in Artemovsk destroyed by the Kiev regime’s military during its retreat to the western part of the city:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/2023-05-18-17.35.58:b
Russian self-propelled howitzer pounds enemy position:
https://rutube.ru/video/8c27c3f319a9789c750234430621991b/
Russian Aerospace Forces Su-34 aircraft participating in the special military operation:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/2023-05-18-13.44.15:f
Russian Su-25s in action:
https://rutube.ru/video/9763d2f22a64908ce956d6bbc80c07c5/

Posted by: Nate | May 19 2023 0:41 utc | 182

CIA | 196
Nobody is trying to invade Russia, but we will help smaller nations to defend themselves against larger nations who would try to take what is not theirs.
You walked uninvited to the Russia’s garden and trampled all the flowers.
What do you expect? A warm tea and cookies, maybe.
When you openly call for the destruction and punishment of a nuclear power for your interests of dominance, than cope with it.
Go, destroy, see how it goes.

Posted by: whirlX | May 19 2023 0:42 utc | 184

Also, I’ll add that even if some other sequence of events had forced the same unconditional Japanese surrender, it would likely have happened on a longer timeline. How many people, in Japan and in its occupied territories, would have tied, particularity by starvation, if surrender had taken even a few more months? The fact is Japan was a broken, starving nightmare in the immediate post-war period even with the destruction of infrastructure halted and the US occupation forces picking up the slack to help feed people. It is entirely possible more people would have ultimately died had the war dragged on any longer than were killed by the bombs. These are counterfactuals and we can’t say for sure, but they aren’t unreasonable speculation.
The previously mentioned post-war US bombing survey basically argued that the home islands would have starved to such an extent that Japan would have surrendered by the end of the year. If accurate, that’s another three months or more of, probably escalating, death. Think of Yemen under Saudi bombing and blockade.

Posted by: OC Anonymous | May 19 2023 0:47 utc | 186

Posted by: CIA Lurker | May 19 2023 0:43 utc | 210
How about pouring billions into a country to “build democracy” when their elected government decides go a different way?
I don’t like that Russia invaded Ukraine. I understand why they did, though.
Your gradeschool level geopolitics is tiresome, and is only getting more people killed.

Posted by: JMW | May 19 2023 0:49 utc | 188

@ CIA Lurker | May 19 2023 0:43 utc | 210
the war started with the coup in 2014…. it started off as a civil war, but the usa-nato have succeeded in turning it into a nato-russia war…. if you actually worked for the cia, you’d know this… cia meddling in ukraine goes back to at least the late 40’s..

Posted by: james | May 19 2023 0:52 utc | 190

Voenkor K:
The “grain deal” stinks.
I have an extremely negative attitude towards any agreement with the enemy during the period of hostilities, when our soldiers are dying, when there is a direct threat to the existence of the Russian Federation, when the enemy has outlined specific real goals to destroy Russia, to bring it to its knees, to deprive it of its subjectivity and, in general, its identity, the right to existence in this world.
These transactions, which are carried out with Turkish “partners”, with any other “partners”, in my opinion, are from a number of bad ones. It’s my personal opinion. I’m not talking about betrayal, although this is often the point of view now, but it all smells bad.
I understand that there is politeness, there is diplomacy, there is a defense of the interests of the state in the international arena, but when the existence of the Russian people and other ethnic groups that inhabit the Russian Federation is at stake, but above all the state-forming Russian people, when war is actually declared on them, I think extension of various deals with the enemy inappropriate and not meeting our fundamental interests in this struggle.

Posted by: MiniMo | May 19 2023 0:54 utc | 192

@ Just Observing | May 19 2023 0:53 utc | 222
you’re right… momentary lapse of judgment on my part.. they saying goes something like this… don’t argue with an idiot.. it makes you look bad, lol..

Posted by: james | May 19 2023 0:56 utc | 194

To nobody in particular. I thought the Russians went into Donbass because people there were being murdered by their own government. Kind of an R2P thing. Like Kosovo and Libya.

Posted by: dh | May 19 2023 1:00 utc | 196

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 18 2023 20:41 utc | 109
What I noticed was a certain level of schizophrenia.
On the one hand the US is “Preparing for Ukraine War to Become a Frozen Conflict”
On the other hand the US is preparing, together with its NATO allies, on planning for war with Russia: “The plan will reportedly assign specific tasks and locations to NATO country members.”
Reminds me of a certain corporal who in July 1941 was maintaining a non-aggression pact with one of his neighbours while spending the same month planning for war with the identical neighbour and assigning “specific tasks and locations” to his participating allies.
I will omit the fact that NATO Article 1 states:
The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
SOURCE:
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm
NATO Article 6 appears to exclude NATO action in the event of armed conflict occurring in, or over, the Black or Baltic Seas. It also appears to preclude action over terrain held by USSR occupation forces at the close of the WWII conflict, the USSR not being a party to NATO.
NATO Article 7 grants primacy to the UN Charter and enforces the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security. Abdication of such responsibility permits the following crimes against humanity:
“The post-9/11 War on Terror may have caused at least 4.5 million deaths in around half a dozen countries”
SOURCES:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/war-on-terror-casualties
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/2023/IndirectDeaths
The use of depleted uranium munitions in Iraq has resulted in a huge rise in birth defects “ranging from congenital heart defects to brain dysfunctions and malformed limbs have been recorded. Even more disturbingly, they appear to be occurring at an increasing rate in children born in Fallujah, about 40 miles west of Baghdad.”
SOURCES:
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/iraq-records-huge-rise-in-birth-defects-8210444.html
https://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0515/p01s02-woiq.html
The fact we at MoA sputter on about the loss of a single weapons system and ignore a much larger set of issues supports your complaint re drivel in the comments. In addition to the “insanity at the top of the US administration.” perhaps we should contemplate the insanity of the members of the bar.
I understand you to have practical experience of the law and the administration of justice. I would be interested in hearing your suggestion of how to address these issues. I am completely flummoxed and inadequate to the task.
Cheers!

Posted by: Sushi | May 19 2023 1:04 utc | 198

@CIA Lurker | May 19 2023 0:39 utc | 203
You clearly know nothing about Ukraine other than propaganda BS. Ever been there? From a prosperous Soviet republic it morphed into a kleptocratic state following independence that has never served the interests of the Ukrainian people. It’s economy has steadily degraded, standard of living decreased, population decreased – all while attempting to suck as much money as possible from from the EU, the US, (and Russia prior to 2014). Since 2014 its government has been run by US puppets whose main activity, besides stealing money, has been to conduct a civil war at US behest while arming itself to fight Russia. The people in the US guiding Ukrainian policy for the past 30 years have no interest in a prosperous, independent Ukraine. They simply want a subservient, dependent state to use as tool which is now being destroyed in the service of its master by fighting a US planned war against the only country that has any interest in seeing a stable and prosperous Ukraine.
US policy in Ukraine is despicable, evil, and your support of this policy is odious and profoundly ignorant.
We, and especially the Ukrainians, should be profoundly grateful that Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal.

Posted by: the pessimist | May 19 2023 1:06 utc | 200