Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
|
|
|
|
Back to Main
|
||
|
May 18, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-119
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman “ Russia’s hit has destroyed U.S Patriot missiles system” Posted by: Dave Oneil | May 18 2023 16:04 utc | 1 SitRep Collection 1 of 2 for today posted now At today’s presser with Uganda’s FM Joe Odongo, there were two Q&As dealing with topics frequently discussed on the Ukie thread. One is the African Peace Initiative that was announced by South Africa, the second being the “Grain Deal:”
No need for further comment as Lavrov said what needed to be said. @ 5 karlof1… thanks… one has to love lavrov for this clarity and forthrightness.. Posted by: james | May 18 2023 16:16 utc | 5 @Featherless | May 18 2023 16:10 utc | 4 Posted by: Norwegian | May 18 2023 16:16 utc | 6
Posted by: Down South | May 18 2023 16:18 utc | 7 Very odd behaviours being exhibited. Zelenskyy won’t go home. Russians seem to want to delay announcing the capture of Bakhmut. American politicians keep referring to “June” as a timetable for unrelated matters. No one wants to talk about the missile attack in Khmelnytskyi and an obsessive focus on the Patriot strike. Rash of “peace” stories being floated in MSM. You have to assume its all deception, and only the Russians are playing to type. Weird. Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 16:27 utc | 8 Norwegian | May 18 2023 16:16 utc | 8 Posted by: Featherless | May 18 2023 16:29 utc | 9 Offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine : Ukrainians take a bunch of their corpses after meeting with the 200th brigade. Posted by: Derek Henry | May 18 2023 16:36 utc | 10 Hungary today called Ukr a threat to their sovereignty. This is related to threats from Ukr to explode the oil pipeline that goes into Hungary and other countries. Posted by: rk | May 18 2023 16:40 utc | 11 BAKHMUT: Looks like the remaining 1% of Bakhmut still in the hands of the Ukrainians is quickly slipping away. Posted by: young | May 18 2023 16:51 utc | 12 I’m thinking, that perhaps, regardless of all stories, planted or not, that the US in some manner, perhaps even aggressively, used the Patriot Battery to track, and display, and or, fire on and destroy the RF MOD air assets…….I have read, anyone know??, that the Russian plane and helicopter were returning from their mission….they do carry flaring to distract incoming SAMs, but returning they’d likely have used it up during their attack….. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 18 2023 16:54 utc | 13 Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 16:27 utc | 11 Posted by: English Outsider | May 18 2023 16:58 utc | 14 Never let it be said that the doddering fools in the EU and US don’t succeed in supporting the economy. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 18 2023 17:15 utc | 15 You can expose the Americans by their Trump orcBiden cheeseburger rivalry. It is McD v Burger King same crap but good old USA whatever. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 18 2023 17:28 utc | 16 Worth mentioning if it hasn’t been already: America is playing up the factor of Ukrainians being responsible for the failure of the Patriot missiles! Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 17:33 utc | 17 Prigozhin sitrep for today, less than one square km left, our opponents are fiercely fighting for every building, yard and entrance, holding Bakhmut is most likely the essence of the counter atack. Unfortunately our flanks continue to crumble. Posted by: Paco | May 18 2023 17:39 utc | 18 >Fear of a coup would explain a lot. I think Zelenskyy senses something involving Zaluzhnyi and he won’t return home until he believes it has been dealt with. Posted by: Pudding | May 18 2023 17:43 utc | 19 @ Paco | May 18 2023 17:39 utc | 34 Posted by: bored | May 18 2023 17:44 utc | 20 Did anyone heard of any attack with “storm” shadows today? Posted by: ostro | May 18 2023 17:47 utc | 21 “The Pentagon overvalued US equipment it sent to Ukraine by about $3bn, a Senate aide and a defence official said on Thursday, an error that opened up the possibility of more weapons being sent to Kyiv for its defence against Russian forces. Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 18 2023 17:52 utc | 23 Posted by: bored | May 18 2023 17:44 utc | 37 Posted by: Paco | May 18 2023 17:52 utc | 24
Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | May 18 2023 17:56 utc | 25 @32 Posted by: paddy | May 18 2023 17:58 utc | 26 @ paddy | May 18 2023 17:58 utc | 45 Posted by: too scents | May 18 2023 18:11 utc | 27 Zelenski is already somewhere under a doctor’s scalpel and no one would recognize him again… Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 18:13 utc | 28 Posted by: bored | May 18 2023 17:44 utc | 37 Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 18:15 utc | 29 @4 I assume Zelensky is wandering around because the gaudy palace in kiev he uses is probably unprotectable. It’s getting to the point where trying to personally kill ukraines pro nato leadership is becoming profitable for Russia. Someone did after all try to light the kremlin on fire and other top officials are sounding genocidal lately. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 18 2023 18:16 utc | 30 @ bored | May 18 2023 17:44 utc | 21 Posted by: Don Bacon | May 18 2023 18:18 utc | 31 Does anyone else see the choice of Hiroshima for the G7 venue as being ominous? They chose that, out of all the possible cities to have a chat where “Ukraine will top the agenda”. Pure psychopathy. Posted by: Anders Rho | May 18 2023 18:18 utc | 32 It’s really instructive to look at what the MSM is reporting, vice what the echo chamber (here, McGregor, Ritter, pro/”neutral” daily YT reports like Weeb Union) reports. I am absolutely not saying MSM are 100% accurate, don’t shade things, ghost of Kiev, etc. But there’s a real danger of the opposite if you only consume content that says what you want it to say. Like “Russians aren’t capturing Bakhmut on purpose since it is a meat grinder”, which makes about zero sense in terms of offensive city warfare (defender favored). Posted by: Anonymous | May 18 2023 18:22 utc | 33 Wagner defines itself as a private military company, but I would venture that it does not fit the mercenary label as we understand it, nor would the French Foreign Legion or the Spanish Legión Extranjera. We’ll find out soon enough -since the Bakhmut deal is almost done- if it is all deceiving theater or as I tend to think an internal struggle to rid the RF of termites in the wood, people that inhabit the Rublyovka, educate their offspring in the west, have real estate in the west and that somehow expect to reach a deal when everybody knows that the west is not “agreement capable” as proved by the two failed Minsk agreements. Posted by: Paco | May 18 2023 18:27 utc | 34 Bachmut “holds”, but not the last Domino Posted by: La Bastille | May 18 2023 18:28 utc | 35 Prigozin’s complains? Posted by: ostro | May 18 2023 18:31 utc | 36 “Dagger” is visible to radar for only about 5 seconds. Posted by: Cindy Martin | May 18 2023 18:33 utc | 37 Re. Bakhmut. If you read BMA latest operational analysis, he actually mentioned that the “main” offensive might be around Bakhmut after all. At least it could be before some sort of large attack attempt in the Zaporozhye region. Posted by: unimperator | May 18 2023 18:33 utc | 38 “For example, every now and then take a look at a Google search for Bakhmut, with the last 24 hours filter. It is almost entirely on the Ukrainians outperforming on the flank attacks and Russia issues like the Prigoshin (sp?) ammo squabbles.” Posted by: Comandante | May 18 2023 18:37 utc | 39 Sure, they may be biased. But you ignore other views to your own danger. Remember Macgregor saying the Russians would roll over Kiev in MAR2022? Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 18:38 utc | 40 It looks like not only the US Patriot AA system, other “donated” foreign AA systems were destroyed on the 16th night (17th morning). Also, lot of foreign shells, missiles and whatnot had been destroyed (today in the morning). We’ve not been hearing of “storm’ shadows lately, have we? Posted by: ostro | May 18 2023 18:38 utc | 41 @ Posted by: Anders Rho | May 18 2023 18:18 utc | 33 Posted by: chunga | May 18 2023 18:40 utc | 42 Yes, as above. Where is the next meatgrinder(s) of UKR forces? Is it possible to position another site to achieve 30,000 KIA? Posted by: paxmark1 | May 18 2023 18:49 utc | 43 When one thinks of Hiroshima often it comes to mind the atomic bomb the US dropped on Japanese civilians in that city, half way around the world, facing no existential threat. Three days later the US dropped another one on Nagasaki. After having 75 years to think about it most Americans still manage to find a way to justify it. There’s a message in there. Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 18:51 utc | 44
Posted by: Sushi | May 18 2023 18:53 utc | 45
-NYT Posted by: ostro | May 18 2023 18:54 utc | 46 Zaluzhnyi has sponsors somewhere and he will appear when Zelensky is no longer needed for the next phase of the game. Posted by: viktor sashnikov | May 18 2023 18:55 utc | 47 @ThusspakeZarathustra Posted by: Rokossovsky | May 18 2023 18:55 utc | 48 “Had Russia actually decided to go to war in March 22, it’s speculated that the Ukraine side would have ceased to exist within a month or two.” Posted by: Anonymous | May 18 2023 18:59 utc | 49 @46 The message that could be taken is that the US has done it before without an actual need and may do it again. Your point about Russia’s ability to respond in kind is very valid, but this is the US we’re talking about. Being rational is just a guideline. Posted by: chunga | May 18 2023 18:59 utc | 50 This formula gives characteristic times of a few seconds, during Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 19:00 utc | 51 Zaluzhnyi has sponsors … Posted by: too scents | May 18 2023 19:03 utc | 52 Cindy Martin | May 18 2023 18:33 utc | 39– The wishful thinking of the NEOs in the USA and the attempt to save face to fight Putin later. Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 19:07 utc | 54 @46 The message that could be taken is that the US has done it before without an actual need and may do it again. Your point about Russia’s ability to respond in kind is very valid, but this is the US we’re talking about. Being rational is just a guideline. Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 19:11 utc | 55 Posted by: Sushi | May 18 2023 18:53 utc | 47 Posted by: Exile | May 18 2023 19:13 utc | 56 Posted by: unimperator | May 18 2023 18:33 utc | 40 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 18 2023 19:13 utc | 57 Zelensky is apparently back in Ukraine as he met with China’s delegation. Posted by: MG | May 18 2023 19:14 utc | 58 It is past 10 p.m. in Ukraine and it is quite silent now…too silent… Posted by: ostro | May 18 2023 19:20 utc | 59 Zelensky is apparently back in Ukraine as he met with China’s delegation. Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 19:27 utc | 60 @ostro #63 Posted by: Don Firineach | May 18 2023 19:31 utc | 61 @mo3.1, #57; I saw that this morning and here is a link to the ridiculous story: https://www.rt.com/russia/576513-ukraine-conflict-frozen-politicHere is an excerpt from the article: Posted by: Firefly | May 18 2023 19:33 utc | 62 The Koked-out Kowboy using the Chinese as a human shield! Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 18 2023 19:33 utc | 63 uncle tungsten @ 246 is not me Posted by: Sushi | May 18 2023 19:34 utc | 64 Oops, I messed up the link I just provided. Please remove the word Here at the end of the link. Posted by: Firefly | May 18 2023 19:35 utc | 65 #67. Posted by: Up North | May 18 2023 19:38 utc | 66 If NATO were a defensive alliance it would recognize the one waged by Russia for what it is. The only frozen conflict is the one in the heads of those commentators who are measuring Russian successes or failures as if it were waging the offensive war that NATO says it is. And now a news flash: the MSM has ceased to do news flashes. Rather, its main task is to do elevator speeches for the military-industrial complex, which is taking over the “collective west” country by country. This it wouldn’t be able to do without the MSM. Posted by: Jonathan W | May 18 2023 19:39 utc | 67 I wouldnt be able to determine the whereabouts based on that article. the paragraph or sentences indicating- “Ukraine is the first stop of Li’s trip. He is also scheduled to visit Poland, France, Germany and Russia.” if there was face to face rather than Zoom, it could have occurred elsewhere. No photograph? Why would they pass that up? Primary consideration for that kind of noise. Posted by: Not Ewe | May 18 2023 19:41 utc | 68 Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 16:27 utc | 9 Posted by: Ed | May 18 2023 19:43 utc | 69 and K is a constant that depends on the mass and geometry of the Dagger. Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 18 2023 19:43 utc | 70 Southfront – last buildings of defense of the UAF in Bakhmut “Domino” taken by Wagner:
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 18 2023 19:45 utc | 71 The Patriot system can not intercept the Iskander ballistic missile let alone a manoeuvring dagger…..the Patriot system had no chance but the Ukranian forces will take the brunt of its failure due to other factors like dispersal or flawed tactics rather than inherent system limitations and hyperbole. I think we are seeing the END in sight…expect movement on Odessa to cut off coastal access for the remainder of the former Ukraine. Wagner is a Russian government asset….there are no Wagner aircraft or tanks…or artillery….there are Russian line unit FOO and ATC attached to Wagner light infantry units…the little bald mouthy cook is just reading a script…hoping to feign weakness and discord to entice their opposite numbers to pop their meth and take a poke. And don’t think the situation on the Mexican border is in no way connected to Russia’s ability to conduct asymmetric warfare on the soft underbelly…. Doug and Scott have given their unbiased assessment of the conflict using their understanding of Russian precedent and current doctrine and they where alot more accurate than any other Western commentators….every word spewing forth from the mainstream media…is utter bullshit Posted by: Joe | May 18 2023 19:49 utc | 72 Assault units of the PMC “Wagner” completely took control of the fortified area “Domino” in Artemovsk. Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 19:50 utc | 73
-Vox Day https://voxday.net/2023/05/18/death-of-a-patriot/ Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 18 2023 19:54 utc | 74 “…After all, Russia knows it won’t have a monopoly on such weapons forever.” Posted by: Ed | May 18 2023 19:54 utc | 75 And it has something to do with sex. Maybe Wilhelm Reich was right. Anyway, sex in the “collective west” has become some kind of ultimate equality barometre with no fun in it and the real kicks are now in sharing every sick fantasy about the Russians. Ra Ra Rasputin… Posted by: Jonathan W | May 18 2023 19:56 utc | 76 Up North | May 18 2023 19:38 utc | 71 Posted by: dh | May 18 2023 19:56 utc | 77 “…After all, Russia knows it won’t have a monopoly on such weapons forever.” Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 19:56 utc | 78 Cindy Martin | May 18 2023 18:33 utc | 39 Posted by: grunzt | May 18 2023 19:57 utc | 79 @ grunzt 84: Posted by: daniel_s | May 18 2023 20:02 utc | 80 Southfront – last buildings of defense of the UAF in Bakhmut “Domino” taken by Wagner: Posted by: Ed | May 18 2023 20:04 utc | 81 Posted by: grunzt | May 18 2023 19:57 utc | 84 Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 20:05 utc | 82
Please present some evidence for this assumption. Posted by: ChatNPC | May 18 2023 20:06 utc | 83 There is only one thing left to say Posted by: mo3.1 | May 18 2023 20:07 utc | 84 I don’t think anyone in the west knows anything about Kinzhals, or even about Iskanders or Calibers, other than their names, or maybe some photos, other than those who found out by being on the receiving end…and all of them are dead. Russia won’t launch them for the Ukies (or their masters) to find even the debris. I don’t think any one of those 3 type of missiles were ever intercepted, other than the targets themselves. I think, all that the foreign “donated” AA systems can do is catch some Gerans. Posted by: ostro | May 18 2023 20:11 utc | 85 @Cindy Martin, 39, 18:33 Posted by: bottle | May 18 2023 20:13 utc | 86 And it has something to do with sex. Maybe Wilhelm Reich was right. Anyway, sex in the “collective west” has become some kind of ultimate equality barometre with no fun in it and the real kicks are now in sharing every sick fantasy about the Russians. Ra Ra Rasputin… Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 18 2023 20:16 utc | 87 Posted by: grunzt | May 18 2023 19:57 utc | 84 Posted by: bottle | May 18 2023 20:18 utc | 88 @Ed #80 Posted by: BillB | May 18 2023 20:19 utc | 89 Also for military reasons? A slow advance all along the front compels the Kiev forces to attempt to hold. That attempt costs troops and equipment, as we are seeing. That’s all that’s aimed for at present. Posted by: JackG | May 18 2023 20:23 utc | 90 Afternoon SitRep Collection update is posted
Posted by: Norwegian | May 18 2023 16:16 utc | 7 Posted by: West of England Andy | May 18 2023 20:24 utc | 92 Time for a Folk Song … Posted by: Don Firineach | May 18 2023 20:25 utc | 93 @Sushi | May 18 2023 18:53 utc | 47 Posted by: Norwegian | May 18 2023 20:27 utc | 94
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 18 2023 20:28 utc | 95 Ed | May 18 2023 19:54 utc | 80– Mecouris begins with Lira case: Posted by: AG | May 18 2023 20:34 utc | 97 I wish we had more info on what happened to the Patriot. Looks like there were 24 Patriot missiles and 6 NASAMS. You can see the NASAMS if you watch the video, they have smaller exhaust “fireballs” and move slower. So one option the Russians send 30 old dummy cruise missiles or maybe Iskanders and then 2 follow up Daggers. The Patriot was no longer firing when it got hit, nor the NASAM. Did the 30 or so missiles hit anything? Don’t know. Posted by: JackG | May 18 2023 20:34 utc | 98 bottle | May 18 2023 20:13 utc | 91– “All in all both sides did well. The Patriot and NASAMs only got killed after running out of ammo, and the Russians killed them.” Posted by: Comandante | May 18 2023 20:38 utc | 100 |
||