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May 17, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-117
Comments
Today’s SitRep collection is up. (first of two today)
https://askeptic.substack.com/p/battlefield-update-2023-05-17-1
Meanwhile, RT also writes in its own article:
“Seymour Hersh: Will the EU see Zelensky fall?”
.
“… According to this source, Hungary in particular is a driving force, but Poland and Germany are also behind the scenes pushing Zelensky to negotiate with Moscow. In return, Zelensky could keep his villa in Italy as well as his accounts with offshore banks, according to Hersh’s source, apparently the EU leaders would assure him. …”
.
I have my doubts about Germany – is the babbling capable of clever action against the US? Or did Scholz make it a top priority?
.
“… The problem with this dissent between the US and the EU is that in Washington they want to stick to Zelensky, while in the EU the desire to drop Zelensky is becoming increasingly clear. …”
From now on, the Ukros die at the front only for the amount of compensation for Schnorrlensky – whether this was known in Banderastan?
.
Consider, Zelenski is negotiating in the background his “severance pay” in Bachmut HIS soldiers are dying to serve as leverage for the amount of the severance pay!
But :
Should he, for example, go underground in Italy as a millionaire, “eke out” his life
will soon be known in the rest of Ukraine…
So Putin wouldn’t even need to secretly and covertly get rid of these people… Ukrainians would probably do that themselves… and is Italy his target???
Then it would be very quick!
And :
Well, maybe South Africa is being put forward as a peace mediator just as a straw man…in the background it is more likely that the drivers mentioned are the ones mentioned!
But…as always, these drivers have probably forgotten one thing… TO DEAL it always takes TWO!
Did Putin ask?
Did Putin ask who GIVES US CERTAINTY… but not YOU???
You Poles / Germans / French surely not, or even Mister Biden?
That wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on….even if the official letterhead was South Africa!
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 16:28 utc | 2
I bet a donut when the Bakhmut meat grinder is complete Prigozhin sends an autographed Russian flag to the slobs in the US congress.
Posted by: chunga | May 17 2023 16:33 utc | 3
Anyone care to guess when the hostilities cease and the final butchers bill is submitted?
What have the Ukrainians left to throw into the carnage?
Posted by: jpc | May 17 2023 16:38 utc | 4
What is there to talk about? Russia has to finish that Regime and its Nato backers in Ukraine or they will have to do this all again.
Posted by: Englishman | May 17 2023 16:48 utc | 5
EU Chief “Ukraine needs at least 1,000 shells a day just in the Bakhmet area alone”
Germany commits the largest ($3 Billion dollars) aid package to Ukraine and the UK
giving long range missiles.
Video https://twitter.com/AbrahamStein8/status/1658877836050980864?s=20
Posted by: Dave Oneil | May 17 2023 16:52 utc | 6
Me and my one track mind, if some of the EU and RF start hypothetical talks about ceasefire and glimmers of what is the future of (smaller) Ukraine, I would hope that the RF says, first remove the MK41 Aegis ashore batteries from Romania and the construction in Poland, then maybe we could talk. After all, this confrontation is RF vs NATO more than RF vs Ukraine. And go on record at the UN and first sign treaties that Crimea is Russia.
Posted by: paxmark1 | May 17 2023 17:10 utc | 7
Dave Oneil no. 6
BUT:
BERLIN, May 17. /TASS/. Germany doesn’t have the planes and other capabilities required to be part of a coalition for the supply of fighter jets to Ukraine, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said on Wednesday.
“We can’t play an active role in this alliance, this coalition because we don’t have training capabilities, expertise or planes,” he said at a joint news conference with his UK counterpart Ben Wallace in Berlin.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | May 17 2023 17:12 utc | 8
Russia seems willing to escalate only when NATO escalates. The destruction of the patriot array was a clear message to all the world that Russia can readily destroy the West’s wonder-weapons. The question is, the military planners in the West must have known that it would come to this, so why did they even bother? Clearly they knew the patriots would be found and destroyed by Russia’s highly capable counterbattery apparatus, so why put on such an embarrassing display for all the world to observe?
It can only be the result of a massive mental disconnect. They seem to believe that Russia “misgendering” our sacred equipment makes Russia into the Big Meanie who’s going to get reprimanded by the great HR Department in the sky. I really think these people are that detached.
Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | May 17 2023 17:12 utc | 9
There is no way everyone’s favorite Diplomat, Victoria “Fuck the EU” Nuland, will allow peace, Seymour Hersh:
https://jamesburrillangell.substack.com/p/strange-diplomacy-victoria-fck-the
From the usual MSM cesspool:
“At the same time, they characterize the damage as minimal and say that the system is in working order, and the Patriot radar component was not affected.
US officials do not believe the Patriot will need to be evacuated from Kyiv for repairs”
Yeah, sure. Throw some filler and some paint on it.
It’ll be like new in no time.
I hope that RF blasts again this crap with the oldest missiles in their inventory to oblivion for all to see.
Posted by: whirlX | May 17 2023 17:29 utc | 11
Running out of ammo:
Time lapse of Russian advance through Bakhmut from 01 March to 17 May 2023
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 17:30 utc | 13
Our source reports that in the last month alone, more than 2,000 soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are considered missing in Bakhmut itself. This is due to the fact that most of the soldiers remain buried under the ruins of houses.
Many of them remain alive for a long time, being under the rubble, but no one will “dig them out”, since the battles there continue constantly.
In the city itself, the Armed Forces of Ukraine suffer huge losses and are forced to retreat. On the flanks, they at least suffer losses during the assault on positions, but there is a result there that can somehow be attributed to such victims.
The situation in the Bakhmut meat grinder is complicated, but everyone understands that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have actually lost control over the city.
Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 17:35 utc | 14
Tomorrow is the 18th. The end or the renewal of the “grain deal”.
Posted by: Tacitus | May 17 2023 17:36 utc | 15
Our source in the OP said that the Pentagon has banned Ukraine from using the Patriot until all the circumstances of the recent missile attack on US air defenses are established.
Washington sent a special team to Ukraine to assess the state of the downed Patriot air defense system and the reasons for the destruction of air defense missiles.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17835
Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 17:39 utc | 16
Russia revives the Odessa grain deal, no idea what they got to give their agreement. Mightve been nothing and they just had ukraine and europe fighting over dumping grain into neighboring states.
Fine negotiating Russia. Unless someone else has more info? Western propaganda media is light on details so far except for a quote about a Russian “warning” about further distortions. Lol. At least they’ve given up bluffing about red lines.
They could’ve held their feet to the fire for at least until europe actually shipped the grain they loudly said Africa needed to avoid famine.
This whole farce is ridiculous. Just mine the God damned port already and blame ukraine. Or return the favor and send unmanned suicide boats there like in Sevastopol.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 17 2023 17:46 utc | 17
As we wrote earlier, the grain deal was extended at the personal request of Erdogan, who understood that if it was not extended, it would be perceived as weakness and used by his rival in the elections and even after in an attempt to organize a Maidan.
After all, the gap in the second round, according to the forecasts of experts and analysts, will be no more than 2-3% between the candidates.
We have a counter question, what Erdogan promised Putin for this risky case, which hurts the image of Russia.
Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 17:46 utc | 18
“US officials do not believe the Patriot will need to be evacuated from Kyiv for repairs”
LOL, that’s because they are irreparable! No need to evacuate heaps of scrap metal.
Posted by: Firefly | May 17 2023 17:50 utc | 19
The Russian Armed Forces destroyed the American anti-aircraft complex Patriot in Kyiv with a strike of a hypersonic missile “Kinzhal”. During the attack, Ukrainian air defense used up several dozen Patriot, SAMP-T, IRIS, NASAMS and S-300 missiles, but failed to prevent the Russian strike. In addition to the Patriot division, several positions of other air defense systems were destroyed. Experts note that the RF Armed Forces used the tactics of combating American air defense systems, developed back in the 90s. After many years, it has proven its effectiveness on the battlefield.
Patriot, which was delivered to Ukraine, is one of the first versions that is transported on semi-trailers, military expert Alexei Leonkov told Izvestia. – Its peculiarity is that it occupies a certain positional area about two by two kilometers in size. Another feature is that it had eight launchers, although usually there are two or three per battery. And then we saw a desperate attempt by the Patriot to shoot down the “Kinzhal”, which was flying towards them. They’ve used up all their ammo. 32 missiles flew away, did not hit. As a result, the “Kinzhal” destroyed the heart of this Patriot – the radar and control center. And it became useless.
I won’t go into details, but she forced the Patriot into action,” he explained. “Thus, the positional area where the Patriot was located was discovered, and a Kinzhal attack was made on it. This proves that the Patriot radar was unable to determine the approach of the Kinzhal. And only when it became clear that the Kinzhal was already heading towards them, they began to shoot back. But the Patriot cannot shoot down a Kinzhal. 32 missiles is a very large expense. This indicates the complete inefficiency of the Patriot in relation to the hypersonic complex.
Izvestiya
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 17:51 utc | 20
LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 17:30 utc | 13
Prigozhin has stated that Shoigu is now in a Bunker not far from Bakhmut. I suspect that there really was a personal problem between Priggy and Sobolev. (Viktor Sobolev, a lieutenant general and a member of the State Duma Committee on Defense).
“On May 15, Sobolev warned that the Russian military who decide to join the private military company (PMC) Wagner risked up to 15 years in prison.
Sobolev described the PMC as an “illegal armed formation”, arguing that its registration and tasks remain unclear. Yevgeny Prigozhin, who is the founder of the Wagner PMC, responded to Sobolev’s comments by inviting the deputy to personally participate in a special military operation.”
Who may have been responsible for the lack of communication between Wagner and the troops on the flancs, and lack of ammo. (who had been told to “avoid contact”. leading to problems.) I am not sure if he had anything to do with the lack of ammo, but the troops on the flancs were well supplied (as per ukraine photos of abandoned weapons)
Note; Take all the above with a pinch of salt, before deciding on the absolute truth.
Izvestiya
Posté par: ostro | 17 mai 2023 17:51 UTC | 20
The patriot went crazy when he perceived the arrival of the Kinzhal, spotting an endless series of missiles (given its speed) and let loose…
Posted by: Fuusible | May 17 2023 17:59 utc | 23
EU is offering contracts for citizens in North Africa and Middle East in exchange for joining the Ukrainian counter-offensive, they can get 20k British pounds (why not euros?) and membership in the EU. Unbelievable.
https://twitter.com/NovichokRossiya/status/1658874080035053568?s=19
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 17:59 utc | 24
In the last open thread it was repeatedly asked why the EU leaders has chosen to meet in Iceland.
Well the riddle is solved. It turns out that quite a few are flying on to the G-7 in Hiroshima, and because of their own poor planning didn’t realise they couldn’t go the easy way over Russia.
LOL.
Soz Iceland.
Posted by: ChatNPC | May 17 2023 18:09 utc | 25
@24 unimperator
Young single males, the majority of the migrants, weren’t funneled in by ngo groups because they love them.
Europe got bled white in ww1 and 2 and they need new blood to revive their wars. Hence these guys are brought in jammed into ghettos and put on welfare.
Now their basically captured and when conscription is forced on them, well Africa will seem a lot better lol. I can’t wait to see their discontent when they realize they’re cannot fodder
LOL.
in other news , looks like the patriot is confirmed hit. Theyre not certain if it’s destroyed or if it needs to be moved to be repaired. So it must be destroyed how can you not be certain if it is destroyed? If it’s destroyed it certainly doesn’t need to be moved does it?
Score a big one for russia. The damned thing just got there.
In other other news Biden is focusing on the debt limit and ukraine has no more money bombs being sent to it. Possible the big German package is the last. They’re pretty categorical about not sending jets.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 17 2023 18:12 utc | 26
Knocking off the Patriot system especially by a Kinzhal is to show what would happen to any other US weapon, or NATO weapon. It is to show that Russia has the upper hand, that they have better scientists, engineers etc than the profit-led US and the West. It is also a slap on the face.
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 18:14 utc | 27
“According to reliable and confirmed information, on 16 May, Kinnzhal hypersonic missile system hit and completely destroyed a multifunctional radar station as well as five launchers of U.S.-manufactured Patriot surface-to-air missile system in Kiev.”
🔹 @mod_russia_en
Don’t know about five, I assumed they might have destroyed 2 of them. On the video, you could see at least 2 launchers right next to each other and another potential hit in the third launcher on the left – perhaps there were a couple of more launchers so it’s entirely possible. Even 3 destroyed launchers would be nice blow to US neocons. But we really don’t know, we can only speculate by the video.
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 18:26 utc | 28
Delete the words, “Patriot missile battery” and replace with “US warship”. What could the Kinzhal do against the main target of a carrier battle group? What would “damaged but not destroyed” mean in this case?
Posted by: Jimmy Scungilli | May 17 2023 18:33 utc | 30
Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | May 17 2023 17:12 utc | 9
Russia seems willing to escalate only when NATO escalates. The destruction of the patriot array was a clear message to all the world that Russia can readily destroy the West’s wonder-weapons.
I was thinking about this earlier. The US/West doesn’t have the mental/emotional strength to think this through. They are running on an inflated image of themselves as the greatest ever, which they think will somehow carry the day, not real resources and capabilities. Why would the US commit itself to a fight, using Ukraine as its proxy, if it wasn’t willing to follow the escalatory ladder as far as necessary to see it to its conclusion? The reason is because the US’s inflated view of itself led it to believe that their proxy war couldn’t possibly come to this, after all, this is America.
Russia meanwhile played it slow and carefully, only escalating as a response to Western escalation. If it had gone in hard early then NATO may have jumped in with near total commitment. Now, both the US and NATO are exhausting their stocks of weapons, to the point where it would be difficult to mount a full scale NATO attack. Now the western military brass are seeing that their ammo supplies are dwindling to a level that protection of their own borders is at risk, and the less deluded among them see that Russia has been able to ramp up production of nearly everything. The West believed its own delusions, while Russia slowly chipped away at their military capabilities. Reality is slowly dawning on these fools while the frog is slowly boiled. Sucks to be them.
Posted by: Mike R | May 17 2023 18:37 utc | 31
Just a thought: If Russia can get Ukraine to empty an entire Patriot battery every few days, even if the incoming missile only does little or no damage to the launchers/radar, how long before Ukraine runs out of missiles? Seems that the stock of these is rather limited.
Posted by: Mike R | May 17 2023 18:42 utc | 32
По достоверно подтвержденным данным, 16 мая в результате удара гиперзвуковым ракетным комплексом «Кинжал» в городе Киев были поражены и полностью уничтожены многофункциональная радиолокационная станция, а также 5 пусковых установок зенитного ракетного комплекса Patriot производства США.
🔹 @mod_russia
Posted by: patriot | May 17 2023 18:43 utc | 33
Englishman | May 17 2023 16:48 utc | 5
Precisely.
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 17 2023 18:51 utc | 34
@ paxmark1 | May 17 2023 17:10 utc | 7
>> And go on record at the UN and first sign treaties that Crimea is Russia.
And that Taiwan is China. So remove all USA personnel and stop arming them with offensive capabilities too.
Why not? This is all related to Natzo aggression. And Russia must know that it’s “next” if China were to fall. So, again, why not?
Posted by: natokraine | May 17 2023 18:56 utc | 35
In any case, given all Natzo lies, agree they must unilaterally remove various threats before any proposals can be taken seriously.
Posted by: natokraine | May 17 2023 18:57 utc | 36
…I hope that RF blasts again this crap with the oldest missiles in their inventory to oblivion for all to see.
Posted by: whirlX | May 17 2023 17:29 utc | 11
Is there a coherent picture of what was attacked in Kiev in the same night? Was the Patriot battery the main target or something that had to be disabled before going after more important targets? Kinda mportant target in its own right and just after the ambush of RF jets and copters so could be retaliation … but, still.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2023 18:58 utc | 37
It is to show that Russia has the upper hand, that they have better scientists, engineers etc than the profit-led US and the West.
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 18:14 utc | 27
It makes sense that men fighting for clean homeland, lovely relatives, beautiful women and children and un-poisoned food would have more strength, perseverance and creativity than men fighting for dead monsanto soil, soros, kermit the frog, pfizer, biden pedos, trump/rfk/tucker/whichever-deepstate-flavor-of-the-week, torture camps, carpet bombing of dozens of countries and millions of people, biolabs, lockdowns, cbdc’s, and schwab and the great reset, even if the latter comes with stacks of jewish funny money.
This is why good wins over evil. Fighting for evil must get quite tedious and boring after a while. Especially if you know or suspect that you’ll be killed by your owners after you win for them.
Posted by: Mike | May 17 2023 18:59 utc | 38
🇷🇺🇺🇦❗️Russian Ministry of Defense: According to reliable data, on May 16, as a result of a strike by a hypersonic missile system “Kinzhal” in Kiev, a multifunctional radar station was hit and completely destroyed, as well as 5 launchers of the US-made PATRIOT anti-aircraft missile system
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 18:59 utc | 39
Intelligent Dasein @ 9
It can only be the result of a massive mental disconnect.
The west, the neocons, believe they can wear Russia out, the golden billion vs 160 million Russians, and they double down over and over as they’re convinced of it, seems logical enough going by the numbers. Same mental disconnect as Napoleon, the Kaiser, Hitler. Same blood thirsty greed which is not mental disconnect just depraved assholeness but the two flaws, mental and moral, are in dialog.
The Soviets had it figured out and had a bulwark built up moving their border right up to Germany, creating a neck of a funnel to the plains of eastern Europe, making sure no one in the west would ever try to march on Russia ever again, it would be suicide running a gauntlet. The children of the Greatest Generation paid no head, when they tossed out communism they tossed out all the hard learned geopolitical lessons that had come along with Russian communism’s development. And, here we are today.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 19:00 utc | 40
Someone asked on the previous thread if there was a difference between the old Ukrainian trident and the Banderist trident, or if it was modified for the Nazi collaborators.
The question intrigued me. While I was looking it up, this new thread started. It looks like they are the same symbol.
https://www.donbass-insider.com/2020/01/22/ukrainian-trident-and-neo-nazism-mythological-history-of-ukraine-versus-reality/
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 17 2023 19:02 utc | 41
… This whole farce is ridiculous. …
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 17 2023 17:46 utc | 17
You’d appear a lot less ridiculous if you’d at least acknowledged that the extension is only for two months.
RF clearly knows it’s BS but it giving Erdogan what he wants, possibly needs, in that short window.
Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2023 19:03 utc | 42
ostro @ 27 / Mike @ 39
That’s a pretty rosy and one dimensional picture of Russian motivations both of you have, but if putting RF on a pedestal keeps moral up why not. I’ll point out you can be more realistic, a bit more three dimensional, and still support Russia.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 19:07 utc | 43
Putin should allow Zelensky to return home without being at risk of Mr. Kinzhal popping in for a personal visit.
And nobody should start counting America as down and out. Their success against Russia has a bearing on their global hegemony and their undisputed fortunes for the 21st. century.
Posted by: Up North | May 17 2023 19:09 utc | 44
anon2020
RF clearly knows it’s BS but it giving Erdogan what he wants, possibly needs, in that short window.
There that little thing of a critical election happening. The west has been attacking Turkiye’s economy for a decade hoping to oust Erdogon, no point upping unemployment and sucking even more money out of the economy right before the run off, hence the two months I think.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 19:16 utc | 45
The Polish Mdme Curie university has published data about the sudden rise of bismuth levels. Bismuth is a half-life product of depleted uranium. So the sudden rise of bismuth levels indicates that indeed depleted uranium detonated and spread in the air after the explosions near Ternopil and Khmelnytsky. Now – because of the wind blowing from the southeast to the northwest – Moldavia, Western Ukraine and Poland are being contaminated with bismuth (which caused so much cancer among the Serbian and Iraqi population).
Source: https://www.kp.ru/daily/27504/4764265/
Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | May 17 2023 19:20 utc | 46
BAKHMUT ✪ Nest ✪ May 17 , 2023
“Thank you, NATO!” — the fighter of the Wagner PMCs thanked France, Turkey and Britain for the equipment provided, and Germany for high—explosive fragmentation grenades (“very good, convenient”).
https://t.me/c/1567469683/1131398
In the video, the fighter adds
“I want to ask NATO to put mayonnaise in the humanitarian cargo. We already have everything, only there is not enough mayonnaise.”
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 19:22 utc | 47
Posted by: Stonebird @ 21
I take Shoigu being in a bunker in Artemovsk with a Himalayan salt lamps sized grain. Shoigu is the equivalent of Minister of Defence, as much a political role as military, not sure there’s any point or expectation that he would be up at the front in a bunker. Maybe later after things calm down he will review the troops there to congratulate them and award medals.
Seems Prigozhin is making up for the harm he caused crying, “Shoigu where are you!” The heel-face turn, it’s quite the kayfabe they got going on. Never knew Russian pro wrestling was so evolved.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 19:30 utc | 48
@39
I tell you what Mike.
I wander around my town in the UK.
I look.
I see.
I think, WTF HAPPEN HERE?!
It’s like living in the aftermath of a DEGENERACY BOMB!
Or some mofo sh!t!
Who knows….
Posted by: Big Johnny Potatoes | May 17 2023 19:31 utc | 49
Wonder what would happen, if Russia sends in some missiles, Gerans etc to Kiev today night?
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 19:32 utc | 50
I just received the latest Ukraine demographic data update. I’ve included a link to a map I created, which shows something rather peculiar. It seems Luhansk, Donetsk, and Crimea are no longer counted. All cells in those areas come up blank–showing zero population.
Map link: https://imgbox.com/neK7KogL
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 19:16 utc | 46
Agreed. I actually thought the two month extension was so short it was a pretty strong reminder that it could have been zero.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 17 2023 19:30 utc | 50
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/63431
⚔️🇺🇦A request from the editorial office of LIVE24 and the answer:
Good afternoon colleagues!
The journalists of the LIVE 24 edition would like to ask a question to Yevgeny Prigozhin.
Evgeny Viktorovich, earlier you said that the Russian Defense Minister is in Bakhmut. According to our data, Sergei Shoigu is in the workplace.
Can you clarify if your comment was a joke?
Yevgeny Prigozhin:
“Oh, you put me in an awkward position. Of course, I was referring to the future Minister of Defense. Remember the past, but live in the future.”
Prigozhin puts Loki to shame =)
Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2023 19:47 utc | 52
It appears that about 10 hits in Odessa and a few in Kharkov…It doesn’t look good for Ukie AA systems there…
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 19:48 utc | 53
@49 These are facts – Grain Deal extended. Ruble is down over 20% in the past year.
What does it matter if the Ruble is down against the dollar? Russia does not use the dollar in trade. Nor does it carry any foreign reserves in USD to speak of. Its value against the dollar means nothing to Russia. Nor does it hinder trade with Russia’s partners in the least.
Please explain.
Posted by: Golddiggr | May 17 2023 19:50 utc | 54
The Polish Mdme Curie university has published data about the sudden rise of bismuth levels. Bismuth is a half-life product of depleted uranium. So the sudden rise of bismuth levels indicates that indeed depleted uranium detonated and spread in the air after the explosions near Ternopil and Khmelnytsky. Now – because of the wind blowing from the southeast to the northwest – Moldavia, Western Ukraine and Poland are being contaminated with bismuth (which caused so much cancer among the Serbian and Iraqi population).
Source: https://www.kp.ru/daily/27504/4764265/
Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | May 17 2023 19:20 utc | 47
You are correct.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Scheme-of-uranium-U-238-decay-series_fig2_233850472
However; the half-lives of the relevant isotopes of Bismuth are extremely brief. The equilibrium concentrations of Bismuth would be extremely low. The Pollocks are using some extremely sensitive instruments.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 17 2023 19:56 utc | 55
Oh, they say they had downed all 6 Kinzhals in Odessa… 🙂
(While none were launched today…)
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 19:57 utc | 56
https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1983/eirv10n26-19830705/eirv10n26-19830705_024-the_swiss_banking_empire_center.pdf
Poncho gives best document, making bad dreams clearer,
but tears if understand. Ok?
Stinky old barflies know above, this for aspiring few, the ones taking over when we gone.
I dig far, many have written years about, many dissertations, Pulitzers deserved, ALL been deleted, erased.
There’s other copies but this original 1984 copy, so not include the new reset cultists plus
Posted by: Miguel | May 17 2023 19:58 utc | 57
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 18:59 utc | 40
Tricksy, but clever wording. From the other reports it suggests that five missile canisters on launchers were destroyed, not five complete launchers. If the first launcher had four canisters destroyed, but was U/S it would be technically destroyed, if the second launcher had one canister destroyed it would be technically damaged; this then would align with the earlier reports. The radar though is the key and if it was specifically targeted it suggests the vulnerability of static platforms, coupled with excellent Russian IRS and porous Ukrainian Opsec.
Posted by: whirlX | May 17 2023 17:29 utc | 11
Yup, the the array has been destroyed, but they managed to find a single ‘radar component’ that was undamaged!
Posted by: Milites | May 17 2023 19:59 utc | 58
The attacks continue
Odessa 17.05 22:30
About 5-7 arrival of cruisers and tactical missiles on enemy targets.
The detonation is powerful. The enemy’s air defenses are failing.
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:00 utc | 59
Pictures in post:
🇷🇺✈️🚀🎯🇺🇸Western satellite images indicate on the differences between satellite images for May 2 and 15, 2023 with a view of the Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky Kiev International Airport.
6 buildings/positions are visible. It is possible, there were the US Patriot air defense systems.
It was this territory that was hit during the recent missile attack on Kiev.
Further and more clear evidence is needed of course,to be determined that.
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/63580
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:00 utc | 60
RT also reports:
There are said to have been several explosions around the port city of Odessa – according to media reports, the alarm can still be heard. Ukrainian news sources report ten explosions in Odessa and the surrounding area, including in Yuzhny, Krasnoselki and other places.
Videos of suspected impact sites are appearing online.
.
https://rtde.live/international/131481-liveticker-ukraine-krieg/
Posted by: mo3 | May 17 2023 20:05 utc | 61
@Milites | May 17 2023 19:59 utc | 61
It is not clear what is the truth, but the images linked via @Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:00 utc | 63 could be interpreted as multiple launchers, maybe 5
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:05 utc | 62
NEGOTIATIONS: Sincere negotiations don’t look to occur regarding Ukraine. The USA desperately needs to take out Russia. Otherwise, the world reserve staus of the United States Dollar (USD) will continue to be threatened and lost. So, no serious negotiations will occur. On the other side of the negotiation table are the Russians. The Russians do not trust the West. So, from both ends of the table sincere negotiations will not occur.
WHERE IS THE WAR HEADING: With the exponential escalations of the war continuing, it looks as if the Russo/Ukrainian war will end in nuclear conflict. Most of the West has been indoctrinated with the mutual assurred destruction theory of nuclear war. So, they just can’t nor will they not believe that their beloved USA and other Western NATO targets will be destroyed. Yet, there is no off ramp for the current war. Those with a MAD concept of what is about to happen will be proven wrong. Yet, at that point when nuclear war occurs it will not matter who is or who is not right or wrong.
BAKHMUT: The Russians are close to taking all of the city of Bakhmut. Doing so is a major milestone on the time line towards when the Russian bear will launch against the USA. Yesterday, the Russians took out a major bridge in Chasiv Yar just West of Bakhmut. The taking down of this bridge is a firm indicator that the Russian meat grinder in Bakhmut is over. It is also an indicator that Russia in no longer in the mode of setting up meat grinders for Ukrainian soldiers.
Russia knows that the war has been escalated to a point that there is no longer any time left to set up new meat grinders regardless of how effective and deadly they have been. So, more Ukrainian bridges will now start to be taken out based upon their military strategic importance.
THE NEXT MILESTONE: The next milestone on the time line will be when Russia takes and secures the remainder of the Donbas. With Bakhmut taken, the Wagner forces could be placed where they will do the Ukrainians the most harm. However, their role in the conflict from this point forward may be more to throw the West off on Russian tactics than to actually set up more meat grinders which they are quite efficient at doing.
The days of the Russian meat grinders where the Russians just wait until the Ukrainians come to them is most likely over. Just not time left for such slow tactics.
WHEN: When will Russia take and secure the remainder of the Donbas? Watch for more bridges in Ukrainain territory to be taken out. The Russian take-out-the-bridges schedule will be a good indictator of when Russian will seriously mobilize to take the rest of the Donbas.
AFTER THE DONBAS: After Russia takes and secures the Donbas, this will pretty much neutralize most of what is left of the Ukrainian army (AFU). Russian wants this army neutralized before it launches upon the USA. Whenever it looks as if Russia will take all of the Donbas, the USA does not have much time left. Russia will destroy the USA within one hour with its nuclear arsenal. Russia’s nuclear arsenal is second to none. And that includes the USA.
WHAT TO DO?: If you live in the USA or any of its territories or if you live close to any of the hundreds of USA military bases worldwide, it is best that you relocate away from these areas. Remaining within the USA has no future. What is about to happen there is most HORRIFIC. Those who think they will survive within any of the territories of the USA, just don’t have any real concept of the horror that is coming to the USA. Some that read this and go through what is about to happen to the USA will someday wish they headed more seriously what is written here.
THEOLOGY: The USA has sinned against the Lord (Jeremiah 50:7). This is a grevious sin and will be severely punished by the Righteous Judge. Looking at the rapid progression of the USA towards evil and wickedness, it does not look like the USA will survive much longer. Placed into the context of the USA being the last day’s MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT and the rising of the bear (Daniel 7:5). It does not look as if the USA has many months left.
Regardless of theology, the USA is in very serious trouble. If it just lost the world’s reserve currency status for the USD, it would quickly fall into 3rd world nation status. Yet, its end will be much more HORRIFIC than that.
Posted by: young | May 17 2023 20:08 utc | 64
Russian Defense Ministry reports destruction of five Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems in
.
On May 16, the Kinzhal hypersonic missile destroyed five launch pads and a radar at the US Patriot complex in Kiev. This was announced by the Russian Defense Ministry on Wednesday:
“According to reliably confirmed data, on May 16, a multifunctional radar station and five launch pads of the US Patriot anti-aircraft missile system were hit and completely destroyed by a hit by the Kinzhal hypersonic missile system in Kiev.”
Quelle
.
https://rtde.live/international/131481-liveticker-ukraine-krieg/
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:08 utc | 65
More speculation about Zaluzhny
A petition has appeared on the website of the President of Ukraine to grant the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny the title “Hero of Ukraine”
Previously, such an award was offered to honor the already deceased “heroes”.
What would that mean?
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/2634
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:11 utc | 66
From the substack articles entitled Battlefield update 2023-5-17
‘Gepard, for the second time failed to cope with the task of covering the air defense position area from Russian weapons.’
Hmmm, Gepard was designed to protect ground troops from fixed wing and rotary threats; however, its FCR and attendant software were never meant to engage missiles, especially hypersonic ones. You might as well criticise the Lancaster bomber because it shot down so few night fighters.
Posted by: Milites | May 17 2023 20:12 utc | 67
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:00 utc | 62
I’m sure, if Kiev is the target again, that the slightly damaged, but fully functional, Patriot battery will be in action, swatting those hyper-sonic missiles again as if they were annoying flies!
Posted by: Milites | May 17 2023 20:17 utc | 68
Intelligent Dasein @9
Several very clever zingers, as we should expect of clever Heideggerians.
Regarding your serious question of what can be going on in their minds–what, for them, makes things mean–it’s a psycho-philosophical question beyond my ken.
Various aclaratory observations could be attempted:
* The flip side of the Will to Omnipotence is a great insecurity over impotence. Patriot brochures make it clear that Patriots are a thunderbolt, and world dominators must deploy thunderbolts. This logic, of course, conducts us towards tactical nukes.
* The race-hate, contempt and horror that overlays their fear of Russia makes it nearly inadmissible that PUTLER could have thunderbolts too. No matter how many competent and impartial military analysts tell them that several classes of Russian weapons far outperform their Western equivalents (when the West actually has equivalents), it just takes one military panderer to reassure them that such weapons are phantasms.
* If Plan A was economic armageddon combined with an immensely bloody & therefore politically disastrous full-frontal assault on Maginot/Donbass, followed, if necessary, with a Afghanistan 2.0 / Gehlen insurrection 2.0, then the West is now forced to cobble together a Plan B–which clearly no longer includes serious efforts to ensure a Ukraine win. On this last point, I have to wonder if this was *ever* the plan. I come to this reluctantly–such was the pleasure of NATO putting its incompetence & impotence on display by dribbling in obsolete stocks and penny-packets of new material. For a year it’s been clear that that won’t be enough, but instead of rebuilding Ukraine to be the ground force that NATO complements with its air, missile and naval forces, it’s the West that keeps making a fuss about not violating red lines, then gradually crosses a line, dribbles in the new resources, sees them neutralized, etc. It’s like a schoolyard scuffle where, once firmly restrained by your friends, you yell ‘Lemme at him!’
* If the relative superiority of Russian weapons systems is more or less impermissible, as perceptions go, then how much more difficult to observe the elephant in your eye: that Russia’s defense-industrial capacity is, on its own, far superior to the West’s. For the Talmudic neo-Platonists who are the neocons, grandchildren of the Nazis and children of a rotting Enlightenment, surely infinite levels of debt x sky-high financialized GDP x 30 countries must guarantee the West a victory against a country that at best makes oily, greasy *things* and at worst is merely a gas-station with nukes.
* Who could expect them to see, much less openly admit, to having the IDEA fail to triumph over the materially embodied thingness of the world? Surely the abstracted, universal, unchanging substrate of being must triumph?
Posted by: Paul Damascene | May 17 2023 20:18 utc | 69
Read along there…. Right-click in the Chrome browser Translate it yourself.
The most read Russian weekly newspaper
.Link
.
https://aif.ru/?fbclid=IwAR2a9H8MJM0PUT7C1zLU-VqC0yAduz4LmJjFINzIrsjiu-KPkINGsaVoy-k
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:19 utc | 70
osted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:00 utc | 62
I’m sure, if Kiev is the target again, that the slightly damaged, but fully functional, Patriot battery will be in action, swatting those hyper-sonic missiles again as if they were annoying flies!
Posted by: Milites | May 17 2023 20:17 utc | 71
.
.
No
USA has banned the use of Patriot for the first!
There is a team on the way which should clarify why this system was destroyed!
Reported to Tass
.
Whether Russia now exploits and whether there was this instruction ???
Who knows ?
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:23 utc | 71
Up North | May 17 2023 19:09 utc | 45
Putin should allow Zelensky to return home without being at risk of Mr. Kinzhal popping in for a personal visit.
Why should he? With Zelenskyy bouncing around from country to country, for fear of being targeted in retaliation for the Kreml drone strike if he returns to Ukraine, the country will be disorganized and uncertain about who is in command. Zelensky will be unable to deliver on his promises, and before long, nobody will take him seriously any more in the West. Putin can just lean back and enjoy the disarray.
Posted by: grunzt | May 17 2023 20:24 utc | 72
Turkey continuing to profit with sending dangerous weapons to Ukraine against the Donbass people and Russians:
Another “help from Erdogan”.
M483A1 155-mm cassette projectiles manufactured by the Turkish company MKE, delivered to Ukraine. At best – with the tacit consent of “friend Rejep”, at worst – with his assistance.
Each projectile contains 88 submunitions, which, when the head projectile detonates, scatter over the areas.
https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/47665?single
Posted by: MiniMo | May 17 2023 20:26 utc | 73
Hits in Odessa
Krasnoselka warehouses BC;
Settlement of Kotovsky hangars with equipment;
Zatoka hangars with equipment;
Nerubaisk warehouses BK.
The list of affected objects is updated.
Lord of war / TG
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 20:27 utc | 74
Ukrainian channel “Resident” shares information from its source in Zelenskyy’s office:
“The Pentagon has banned Ukraine from using the Patriot until all circumstances surrounding the recent missile attack on American air defenses are clarified. Washington sent a special team to Ukraine to assess the condition of the downed Patriot air defense system and the reasons for the destruction of anti-aircraft missiles.
In fact, what is the reason for the defeat of the Ukrainian Patriot air defense system by Russian missiles?
.
https://t.me/s/ukraina_ru
20,14 Uhr
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:29 utc | 76
Kinzhal destroyed on contact with Patriot Launcher. Ukraine to request more Launchers. Pics on our second SitRep collection (sarcasm).
https://askeptic.substack.com/p/battlefield-update-2023-05-17-2
@44
I think we’re talking about a general Western disconnect when it comes to assessing the technological balance.
If one were to ask the average Westerner their opinion of RF technology, the best you would probably get is the Praktica SLR.
Gas station with country attached?
Economy the size of Italy?
Most likely.
If one were to mention Lunokhod, Mir, Tokamak, Soyuz etc, albeit founded in the USSR, one would probably be met with the blank stare.
Posted by: Big Johnny Potatoes | May 17 2023 20:31 utc | 78
Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:00 utc | 63–
As I wrote yesterday, Russian satellite info would provide the strikes effectiveness and seems it was leaked to several sources like the one you posted @40 above. The Kinzhal bowling ball didn’t quite knock down all the pins for a “ripper” as such strikes are called in that sport, but given the additional AD sites destroyed, we can say the “spare” was picked-up.
I wonder if the radar’s telemetry was shared as it would be very interesting to know what if anything it “saw” of the incoming Kinzhal. The very erratic nature of the AD missiles’s performances is also quite interesting. I would think Russia would have had a satellite overhead to monitor and record all that information.
IMO, the one certain outcome from the strike is that NATO AD designers need to figure out what they can do to defend themselves for they are essentially naked to all incoming Russian missiles and to a high percentage of Russia’s attack drones. And there’s zero sense in wasting money on producing more Patriot missiles as they clearly are useless; the contracts ought to be cancelled.
Hits in Odessa
Krasnoselka warehouses BC;
Settlement of Kotovsky hangars with equipment;
Zatoka hangars with equipment;
Nerubaisk warehouses BK.
The list of affected objects is updated.
Lord of war / TG
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 20:27 utc | 77
.
.
And important:
There was NO anti-aircraft defense !!!
.
Is there something drann Patriot no longer to use?
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 20:32 utc | 80
@karlof1 | May 17 2023 20:32 utc | 82
Thank you for the comment and assessment. I agree with what you say, most likely it was a “spare”. The erratic nature of the missiles is most curious, one might speculate whether some EW measure caused all missiles to be launched on russian command. If not, and it was operated by US Americans, the display was humiliating to say the least. Finally I completely agree that the Patriot system has been shown to be useless. Obviously, this will be a severe blow to US sales of Patriots that the Russians don’t mind.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:43 utc | 81
VIDEO: The Russian Foreign Intelligence Service responds to CIA and offer US military to contact them
‼️IMPORTANT
🇷🇺👉🇺🇸 A video from the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service in response to the CIA’s agitation to the Russians to betray their homeland and work for the CIA.
‼️I hope this video reaches the Americans.
Contacts at the end of the video
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/64899
Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2023 20:48 utc | 83
@jpc | 4
“Anyone care to guess when the hostilities cease and the final butchers bill is submitted? What have the Ukrainians left to throw into the carnage?”
Another 100,000 Ukrainian dead required especially if it can be from the Western Ukrainian population who seem to have been underrepresented thus fare in the casualty rolls. So 8 to 10 months or less. Usually losses accelerate as the end approaches.
The classic law of “slowly at first and then all at once” will turn out to be true in this case.
It’s very bitter to think about. Many more Ukrainian and Russian wives and mothers still to be heart broken.
Posted by: Dan Farrand | May 17 2023 20:54 utc | 84
@43 its possible it’s a secret deal to help erdogan, but of course there’s no way to see what a deal would be. If they’re letting ukraine smuggle in weapons in the grain for a verbal promise, well that’s still bad negotiating.
The neo sultan erdogan is an independent player so his promises I’m sure only apply as long as it’s in his interest.
Still it’s an intriguing possibility.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 17 2023 20:56 utc | 85
lets not forget SMO stated goal of NATO to 1991 borders. theres a long way to go there. NATO crowed loudly and puffed out its chest with sweden finland , but that fat lady and mr K have not finished yet.
Posted by: hankster | May 17 2023 21:01 utc | 86
Who would vote for a old senile man, who doesn’t know how many days left yet to live? They brought this disaster to the world. Would the guy, who has one leg in the grave think much about the world he is leaving behind?
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 21:09 utc | 87
@ hankster
The stated goal of the SMO is to denazify and demilitarize the Ukraine. By doing so, it’d demilitarise the “west” on the way…De-dolarization would come as a byproduct…
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 21:12 utc | 88
@young, #67; I agree with several aspects of your analysis, however leaving the USA for good is expensive and probably a useless endeavor. Radiation resulting from such an exchange would be horrendous, probably causing a planetary extinction event.
There’s no country that wouldn’t be irradiated. Leaving the USA would only prevent one from having to be instantly atomized for those living in or near cities and/or military bases, etc. Living away from the USA would effectively delay death perhaps, but this doesn’t take into consideration a ‘nuclear winter’ scenario which MAY also occur.
If Russia and the USA engage in a massive nuclear exchange, MAD will ensue!
Posted by: Firefly | May 17 2023 21:13 utc | 89
@9
Today, at 4 pm EDT on CNBC, I heard some money manager say that the Ukrainians had just blown up the Russian hypersonic missile, proving that the Patriot was doing its job, and that the US didn’t have to worry about the Russian weapons.
So, don’t believe that people in the West don’t believe their Patriot systems work a treat; there’s a whole bunch of them that swallow the MSM reports wholesale.
Posted by: FrankDrakman | May 17 2023 21:14 utc | 90
⚡️🇷🇺 State tests of the new 2S43 Malva self-propelled artillery gun (SPG) on the BAZ-6010-027 chassis, equipped with the 152/47 gun 2A64, have been completed. The SPG has confirmed its declared characteristics.
This was announced to TASS at the MILEX-2023 exhibition on Wednesday by Alexander Potapov, general director of the UVZ concern. According to the statement, Malva has confirmed compliance with the technical specifications and should be arriving in the troops soon.
Maximum firing range, km: 24,5
Rate of fire per minute: Up to 7
Angles of approach VN/HN, deg: -3…+70/±30
Carryable ammunition, shotshells: 30
Manpower: 5
Overall dimensions, m; length/width/height: 13/2.75/3.1
TAO total mass, t: 32
The chassis 2S43 Malva is a modification of the BAZ-6910 truck. Its mass is 21 tons and payload is 19.41 tons. Engine has 470 hp. Maximum speed is up to 80 km/h. In the rear part of the 2S43 is a heavy stop, which goes down during firing. The vehicle is equipped with a 9-speed dual-position transmission and independent dual-torque suspension on all axles and a central tire inflation system. Cruising range is 1000 km.
2S43 is able to overcome a ford of 1.4 m depth.
@antinatocoalition
https://t.me/antinatocoalition/9735
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 21:22 utc | 91
Posted by: Sergei | May 17 2023 19:25 utc | 49
“These are facts – Grain Deal extended. Ruble is down over 20% in the past year …”
According to XCE the rouble is UP 24.32% against the dollar year on year (https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=RUB).
Posted by: PM | May 17 2023 21:24 utc | 92
Prigozhin had a lyrical day with an aphorism inspired in the old woman of the goldfish tale by Pushkin.
Рыбку съесть и на хуй сесть
Today the dart flew in Gerasimov’s direction with black humor comparing his jump backwards maneuver with famous military feats of the glorious past.
I leave up to the interested in translating what the greedy old woman wanted, to eat both the goldfish and the dick, and that goes for the termite bureaucracy, the only lament was liberating the city and not encircling the remaining forces since due to the glorious Gerasimov jump backwards to better positions.
Posted by: Paco | May 17 2023 21:24 utc | 93
It is still early…what if there would be a missile barrage in Kiev around 2-3 am?
Posted by: ostro | May 17 2023 21:24 utc | 94
karlof1 | May 17 2023 20:32 utc | 82
At the start the looked to be tracking a target, launches like the second hand of a clock. Radar and six fiver launchers knocked out. Knock out the radar with a Kinzal and the launchers are sitting ducks for anything Russia cares to throw at them.
But from what I have seen, the system appears to have been concentrated on one airfield so one strike could have detonated a heap of stuff.
But since I read about Patriot being sent to Ukraine, It was just a matter of when not if a Kinzal would take out the radar. Once that radar gets turned on it is toast. That everything was set up in such close proximity though was a bit mind boggling.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 17 2023 21:28 utc | 95
Intelligent Dasein | May 17 2023 17:12 utc | 9
The question is, the military planners in the West must have known that it would come to this, so why did they even bother?
———————————————————-
It is the politicians who are waging the war, along with the UK DoD. The NATO politicians want to go all out, their military is not enthusiastic but obliging its masters. After all, they enable the paychecks. The politicians are pushing the fighters, not the military. They know that fighters are not ‘wunderwaffe.’
The US knows that its Patriot system requires integration with other AD. Getting it together is another issue. The Russkies are managing quite well in that department.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | May 17 2023 21:30 utc | 96
The green t-shirt tranny still touring. Expect much green screening on his “return”.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 17 2023 21:32 utc | 97
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 17 2023 21:28 utc | 98
Considering that Ukraine has lost at least 350 air defense launchers at this point, that could constitute most S-300 and BUK systems. Now when there’s nothing left in the inventory, all the firepower that took out those USSR equipment will start concentrating solely on Nato derived equipment. Which means (finally) we will start a lot more very expensive, super-duper hi-tech Nato stuff in scrap metal form on videos.
One could imagine that is also one reason why US would like to get of this Ukraine affair ASAP – it will be extremely bad for sales. But they probably won’t get rid of it and US (MIC) will get humiliated on a scale never seen before.
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 21:35 utc | 98
One could imagine that is also one reason why US would like to get of this Ukraine affair ASAP – it will be extremely bad for sales. But they probably won’t get rid of it and US (MIC) will get humiliated on a scale never seen before.
Posted by: unimperator | May 17 2023 21:35 utc | 102
.
.
Correct !
As well as the howitzer 2000, none of this was done anymore and almost all orders were canceled by the manufacturer.
A real application is NOT a promotional video !!!
Posted by: mo3.1 | May 17 2023 21:46 utc | 99
Someone(s) graded the destruction of patriots a spare??
After the Russian strike with pins scattered everywhere. The US stopped the use of ALL Patriot systems in Ukraine.
The Russians just threw one ball. I would say that was more like a 300 score.
Game over.
Posted by: Golddiggr | May 17 2023 21:46 utc | 100